Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
I forget who mentioned about some 15m error that was fixed in the property boundary data, but I actually found another error, is there some where we should report these errors? It looks like the road was realigned, the previous road was turned into a car park and the property boundary for the park wasn't updated, and that park seems a little out on number of sides, I assume it's council being slack. http://osm.org/go/ueTQqKQYc-- This screen shot shows where the road crossing into the park, or what was the park. http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/realigned-road.png ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/5 Sam Vekemans : > That's true. .. so someone who's kind-of familiar with the area (been down > the road at least once in their life? Some people have better memories than others. > Perhaps maybe the suggestion is to hold off on that planning aspect, or > rather,not concentrate efforts on it, as the data may become available > later? I wasn't suggesting other wise, just pointing out the majority of the roads in sparsely populated area may not be surveyed by someone any time soon (if at all). > I saw the link of 'streams' pop up, perhaps when all data that is available > is imported, then deal with what isn't available :) I wasn't adding new rivers, I was tidying up existing ones, although the stream data may be better again but I'm yet to see it so no idea. > So a lesson from Alberta is that there have been a few people who spent lots > of time traveling the back-roads, collecting road names. or lots of tracing > (before data became available) > > So the only thing that i can recommend is to 'not actively encourage'. > but then, how can you not actively encourage mapping? (rhetorical) No one is actively encouraging it, although I am trying to locate some more grey nomads that do tend to end up on a lot of back roads, especially as they head north for winter and then journey south at about this time of the year. > So thats where we needed to draw the line. The method of 'making data > available, so people can copy what they like, is probably better than 1 > person importing it all at once. Purpose being to get it done FAST, rather > than the passive approach of 'top quality'. The property boundary data set is exactly that, property boundaries, it just happens that the gaps between property boundaries has useful other information if you can figure it out. > So by me making the data available (all the railways/buildings... all canvec > data) and all the river data simply 'available'. Then we can have local > people volunteering to copy-in the data n that they know is more accurate. > Also, they already know what rivers they traced, and (if it was roads) would > already know what roads they drew in. There is a number of rivers that partly exist due to existing ABS data imported, these boundaries line up with natural features at times, other data sets that just became available add to this body of information already import into the system. > So (instead) by making ALL the data converted. ... local people can copy in > what they like. It (probably) will still be only a few of us who end up > copying in the majority, but at least it will be more local people. There is bearly enough active people in Australia to make up the numbers needed to form a LC, I highly doubt we'd get enough local people across all of Australia that even a small fraction of data would be imported this way. I just don't see this as practical unless we get a large number of Germans helping us out :) >> You do know there is 2.1million property boundaries right? > > It's the 'method' the actual import can be automated, i got oodles of rivers > in Canada too :-) ... just like the method of actual data conversion is > (now) automated. :-) hmmm perhaps I wasn't clear, you do realise there is 2.1 million property boundaries right? > Ya, so the though that 'the source data files' aren't going anywhere, is not > exactly true. Any new government can go in there and scrap or improve on > whatever departments they want. ... i think usually it would be either > improve... or delay improvements :) There is only a very limited subset of geospatial data that has been released, about 31 sets of geographical data so making backup copies now will prevent them from disappearing entirely, although that doesn't mean improved data sets will be released. > which is another reason why im making a backup copy of the source shp > files as im going along. :-) Exactly... and the xls files and all the other non-shp files... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 6:14 PM, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/5 Sam Vekemans : > > Just one comment. If it was me working on it, i would hesitate on adding > in > > roads where they are 'estimated' because it is not known as a fact. Once > > all the property boundaries are in there, i think that will cause a > natural > > 'growth' in OSM activity, and people would want to help out ... by going > > along that way with a GPS, and getting some tracks. so not even listing > a > > highway=road, might be the best way to go. IMO > > Actually anyone that knows a road exists but hasn't had a chance to > map it by other means could use the property boundaries to do so, no > GPS needed etc. > > That's true. .. so someone who's kind-of familiar with the area (been down the road at least once in their life? > Also Qld alone makes up 1/4 of the area of Australia, but has > relatively few people (4.2 mill according to wikipedia), most live in > the very south east of the state around Brisbane. > > My point is, the majority of back roads, and even streets in tiny > little out back towns aren't going to be mapped by GPS, at least not > for a decade maybe more. > > Perhaps maybe the suggestion is to hold off on that planning aspect, or rather,not concentrate efforts on it, as the data may become available later? I saw the link of 'streams' pop up, perhaps when all data that is available is imported, then deal with what isn't available :) > > Once a few tracks (even 1 will do) whoever is tracing there own tracks > will > > have a 'guide' to work with already. This way, we will know for sure > that > > roads exist where they do in real-life. > > Those traces just don't exist and most likely won't exist. > > True :) > > It will also give an opportunity for that local area mapper to add in > other > > POI along the way. :-) > > Yes, there is no street names or POIs on property boundary data :) > So a lesson from Alberta is that there have been a few people who spent lots of time traveling the back-roads, collecting road names. or lots of tracing (before data became available) So the only thing that i can recommend is to 'not actively encourage'. but then, how can you not actively encourage mapping? (rhetorical) So thats where we needed to draw the line. The method of 'making data available, so people can copy what they like, is probably better than 1 person importing it all at once. Purpose being to get it done FAST, rather than the passive approach of 'top quality'. Considering that im in Victoria, BC and converting the data. And others who live in or areas would know what data is more accurate that i would. Example Calgary, Alberta So by me making the data available (all the railways/buildings... all canvec data) and all the river data simply 'available'. Then we can have local people volunteering to copy-in the data n that they know is more accurate. Also, they already know what rivers they traced, and (if it was roads) would already know what roads they drew in. So by making it available (rather than even using AutoMatch), the local area mapper who spent the last 2 years tracing and drawing in their roads, will probably be a bit happier with copying in features... rather than someone in Victoria (1/2 a country away) dropping data in, all around them. What i have been doing, is contacting the local area mappers (for the 092, Vancouver island area) and using that as a test-area) Because i am familiar with most of it now. And i found that the local area mappers are focused on the local area :) and that as soon as i started to drop-in data for their area... that spurred more mapping (even them adding in stuff that i was just about to have added in). So (instead) by making ALL the data converted. ... local people can copy in what they like. It (probably) will still be only a few of us who end up copying in the majority, but at least it will be more local people. Then, as new data is available, the data conversion part is done separately, and the data is simply made available for people to copy at their leisure. The method of using 'AutoMatch' is the same, accept instead of comparing the SHP files, we are comparing the new .osm files with the current .osm area, and creating a DIFF file and looking at the matches that it found. It's just making the import as a 3 separate step process rather than trying todo it all at once. 1 - Data conversion 2 - Data sharing 3 - Data importing So when updates are available, it is just converting it to .osm format so then after step 3, we have 4 - Data AutoMatch (merging 'missing' map features) (with OpenJUMP in a PostGIS database) Then stuff like fixing the 'source' tag can all be done after the fact. with step 5. 5 - update source tags As that process can be done with a program (bulk_update.pl) that grabs the .osm area, attaches on and changes tags, then imports back the changes. And in a small scale JOSM can do that too. BTW, even though a dataset li
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/5 Ross Scanlon : > We'd be better of loading the data from: > > http://data.australia.gov.au/97 Or we could combine both data sets :) I really need to figure out how to setup a WMS system under linux to run these data sets too... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 02:56:45 +1000 John Smith wrote: > Using the property boundary WMS tiles I managed to redo a largish > chunk of the Condamine river near Chinchilla, the property boundary > data isn't 100% perfect for this purpose but it is certainly much > better than the low res sat imagery. > > http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12&ll=-26.824,150.662&layer=BTT We'd be better of loading the data from: http://data.australia.gov.au/97 converted to osm data then loading it into josm to cross check with sat imagery and where there is already rivers added. Unfortunately this only holds the dbf data not the actual shape file so I'm currently downloading the Wetlands data to see if this will give the stream data. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/5 Sam Vekemans : > Just one comment. If it was me working on it, i would hesitate on adding in > roads where they are 'estimated' because it is not known as a fact. Once > all the property boundaries are in there, i think that will cause a natural > 'growth' in OSM activity, and people would want to help out ... by going > along that way with a GPS, and getting some tracks. so not even listing a > highway=road, might be the best way to go. IMO Actually anyone that knows a road exists but hasn't had a chance to map it by other means could use the property boundaries to do so, no GPS needed etc. Also Qld alone makes up 1/4 of the area of Australia, but has relatively few people (4.2 mill according to wikipedia), most live in the very south east of the state around Brisbane. My point is, the majority of back roads, and even streets in tiny little out back towns aren't going to be mapped by GPS, at least not for a decade maybe more. > Once a few tracks (even 1 will do) whoever is tracing there own tracks will > have a 'guide' to work with already. This way, we will know for sure that > roads exist where they do in real-life. Those traces just don't exist and most likely won't exist. > It will also give an opportunity for that local area mapper to add in other > POI along the way. :-) Yes, there is no street names or POIs on property boundary data :) > Another note, is bigtincan hosting a planet-dump and diff/load for your > slippy map? Only of south eastern Asia and the south western Pacific, the server would be capable of more, but lacks hdd space. > ... and what do you think of my way of conducting the import (just making > the .osm files available (hosting them on mediafire.com), and letting local > are mappers drop-in the data at their leisure? and organizing it all with a > Googledocs chart? (itching for feedback here) You do know there is 2.1million property boundaries right? > Is BTC mapper going to add Garmin Maps to that list? Several people already do Garmin maps, I didn't see much point to it. The major reason for getting a tile server up and running was highway shields... > P.S. Yup, i knew that the government would open up, it was just a matter of > time. :-) ... i guess the rest of the common wealth countries might be > next. Only, if the Queen says so. ;) I think part of the reason the data was released is due to a change of federal government, who do some truly good things and then turn round and screw it all up with bone head ideas like filtering people at the ISP level. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Cool, Just one comment. If it was me working on it, i would hesitate on adding in roads where they are 'estimated' because it is not known as a fact. Once all the property boundaries are in there, i think that will cause a natural 'growth' in OSM activity, and people would want to help out ... by going along that way with a GPS, and getting some tracks. so not even listing a highway=road, might be the best way to go. IMO Once a few tracks (even 1 will do) whoever is tracing there own tracks will have a 'guide' to work with already. This way, we will know for sure that roads exist where they do in real-life. It will also give an opportunity for that local area mapper to add in other POI along the way. :-) Another note, is bigtincan hosting a planet-dump and diff/load for your slippy map? ... and what do you think of my way of conducting the import (just making the .osm files available (hosting them on mediafire.com), and letting local are mappers drop-in the data at their leisure? and organizing it all with a Googledocs chart? (itching for feedback here) http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dG1ZN1YwMmZCVDhDOHZpbUNmOGlvWGc&hl=en .. and BTW, bigtincan is awesome :-) Is BTC mapper going to add Garmin Maps to that list? Cheers, Sam Vekemans Across Canada Trails P.S. Yup, i knew that the government would open up, it was just a matter of time. :-) ... i guess the rest of the common wealth countries might be next. Only, if the Queen says so. ;) http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/licence.jsp (Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada (Canada) as represented by the Minister of Natural Resources Canada.) Twitter: @Acrosscanada Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 9:56 AM, John Smith wrote: > Using the property boundary WMS tiles I managed to redo a largish > chunk of the Condamine river near Chinchilla, the property boundary > data isn't 100% perfect for this purpose but it is certainly much > better than the low res sat imagery. > > http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12&ll=-26.824,150.662&layer=BTT > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Using the property boundary WMS tiles I managed to redo a largish chunk of the Condamine river near Chinchilla, the property boundary data isn't 100% perfect for this purpose but it is certainly much better than the low res sat imagery. http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=12&ll=-26.824,150.662&layer=BTT ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/4 James Livingston : > On 04/10/2009, at 12:33 PM, John Smith wrote: >> whc:criteria:7=yes >> whc:criteria:8=yes >> whc:criteria:9=yes > > Given there's a finite set of criteria (ten of them) that sounds good. It may be extended in future, which might be problematic for embedding these values directly in OSM data. > I'm not really sure that the criteria really need to be in there, > because they can easily be looked up via the UNESCO site given the id > (which is there) and I don't really know what they'd be useful for. What they may be useful for, although I didn't spend a lot of time looking at it might be to shade areas different colour and/or use different icons to distingush the different types of areas. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 04/10/2009, at 12:33 PM, John Smith wrote: > whc:criteria:7=yes > whc:criteria:8=yes > whc:criteria:9=yes Given there's a finite set of criteria (ten of them) that sounds good. I'm not really sure that the criteria really need to be in there, because they can easily be looked up via the UNESCO site given the id (which is there) and I don't really know what they'd be useful for. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/4 James Livingston : > Right, so it turns out that my randomly chosen one was a complete > fluke - in most cases the World Heritage Areas and the National Parks > don't have the same boundaries. There is however a proposed tagging > scheme for UNESCO World Heritage areas/places, which will obviously be > useful. Most of it seems sane, except for my comment below... > So for tagging, how about something like the following, with follow-up > work to check if the other WHAs are National Park boundaries too. > whc:criteria=7;8 > whc:criteria=8;9 This isn't a comment about what you have done, so please don't be offended, but I don't like it when multiple values are jammed into one field, it may be ok for human readability but I'd need to look up what 7, 8 and 9 are to know so it really isn't that human readable either. Not to mention that it becomes a nightmare if you ever want to do something sane with the data. I feel/think something better should be done, eg whc:criteria:7=yes whc:criteria:8=yes whc:criteria:9=yes ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 02/10/2009, at 8:33 PM, James Livingston wrote: > I converted the World Heritage Area file on my machine, and just > uploaded one of the areas[1]. Does it look okay to people? If so, > I'll go ahead and do the rest of the WHA data. Right, so it turns out that my randomly chosen one was a complete fluke - in most cases the World Heritage Areas and the National Parks don't have the same boundaries. There is however a proposed tagging scheme for UNESCO World Heritage areas/places, which will obviously be useful. So for tagging, how about something like the following, with follow-up work to check if the other WHAs are National Park boundaries too. name=Purnululu National Park (World Heritage Area) source=environment.gov.au boundary=national_park unesco_world_heritage=yes whc:id=1094 whc:inscription_date=2003 whc:criteria=7;8 environment.gov.au:PLACE_ID=105128 and name=Heard and McDonald Islands World Heritage Area source=environment.gov.au unesco_world_heritage=yes whc:id=557 whc:inscription_date=1997 whc:criteria=8;9 environment.gov.au:PLACE_ID=105142 [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/unesco_world_heritage ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sun, 4 Oct 2009 00:15:21 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote: >> > Ok, so now a quick description of how you did this. >> Brendan has set up a WMS server of property boundaries, and things >> that aren't boudnaries show up as black areas and it's possible to >> guess which is roads depending how straight the gaps are between >> boudnaries. >So how did you get it into josm then? Some of this is by memory... 1. Open JOSM 2. Get the 'wmsplugin' by a. Menu item Edit > Preferences b. click the tab that looks like an american power socket c. Select Download List button d. Tick wmsplugin e. Select OK, the plugin should download and install f. restart JOSM 3. Set up WMS server by a. Menu item Edit > Preferences b. click the tab that has "WMS" written on it c. click Add button d. Enter Menu Name of your choice (e.g. Qld DCDB Lite) e. Copy and paste WMS URL: http://206.123.75.6/cgi/ms/mapserv?service=WMS&version=1.1.1 &request=GetMap&layers=dcdb_lite_geometry&srs=EPSG:4326&format=image/png&map=../../mapserv/wms.osm.au.qld.map& f. click OK and exit out Preferences box 4. Open up an area of interest within Queensland (how to do this is an exercise for the student) a. Make sure the zoom bar shows less than 280 m, for example adjust it to about 100 m. b. (I've put a limiter on it so that no one can DoS it by trying to draw all 2.1m polygons in Qld at once.) 5. Add the WMS layer by: a. Menu item WMS > Qld DCDB Lite b. Wait a few seconds (maybe 60 seconds if on dialup) c. (the WMS responses should come back in tiled delivery) d. (Tiles with the green background are good, tiles with bright red background mean something broke. If you ran JOSM from a command prompt, the error message should show up there). See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Image:Mapserv-wms-example.all-hallows.png for an example tile image. Please let me know how you go. Somebody can post this to the wiki if it's useful? Brendan ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/4 Brendan Morley : > That's one of the reasons why I'm tagging DCDB-derived roads with "note=DCDB > indicates a right of way in this location. Needs a field survey to confirm > highway type and actual alignment." Sometimes the road formation does not > exist! That was just an example, I surveyed that area a while back and one end goes into someones car port :) I'm just pointing out where the boundaries on paper differ from the real world :) > In that case I'm actually intending to remove the highway tag completely, > but leaving the way included in the database. This would indicate that > "somebody" evaluated that the legal right of way existed and that "somebody" > visited the location and found no transportation infrastructure. Maybe there > is a highway tag after all that fits? In some other datasets it's seems to > be either called "unformed" or a "construction line" - not sure which > definition fits here though. We had this discussing some time back about the difference between non-existing roads and roads that simply haven't been surveyed, this data at least would make it legit to show roads don't exist in reality without infringing someone elses copyright. > Another alternative is to add an area rather than a way and tag as > natural=grass or =wood (and maybe access=yes?) Not all crown land is going to be roads, and we need to be careful about how this data is used, I think it will be useful as a secondary source, for example it will be useful when you can't get a good GPS signal, I've nudged some roads I surveyed in some near by national parks, that had poor coverage. > So there's "should" be nothing stopping you from traversing the length of > Horswood Road, formed or not. If you get challenged, just say you're > intending to follow Horswood Road. Having an easily-attainable copy of the > DCDB map in your hand may help, which is another reason why having a CC-BY > DCDB is such an epic win. That might work in some areas, but as Liz's boss found out you can also get a gun pointed at you, public road or otherwise :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
> > Ok, so now a quick description of how you did this. > > Brendan has set up a WMS server of property boundaries, and things > that aren't boudnaries show up as black areas and it's possible to > guess which is roads depending how straight the gaps are between > boudnaries. > > Here's a before shot of the area: > > http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/maleny.png So how did you get it into josm then? -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:25:44 +1000, John Smith wrote: >2009/10/3 Brendan Morley : >> How do you mean "consumed"? >Some land owners have taken over the land when it's probably still >crown land. For example: >http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-26.158115,152.64636&spn=0.007184,0.013937&z=17 >Horswoord Road mostly doesn't exist, yet the land isn't listed as a >property boundary at all, so the land has probably been squatted by >nearby land owners. Yes, that often happens when a row of lots has multiple road frontages. The "back" frontage is often left au naturel, presumably less maintenance for the council. But if you want to subdivide later, you don't have to resume somebody else's backyard as well. Just build the "back" road when you actually need it. If you look closer (allowing for the photographic offset in that area) there's a bushier strip of vegetation about where the road casement passes through. That's one of the reasons why I'm tagging DCDB-derived roads with "note=DCDB indicates a right of way in this location. Needs a field survey to confirm highway type and actual alignment." Sometimes the road formation does not exist! In that case I'm actually intending to remove the highway tag completely, but leaving the way included in the database. This would indicate that "somebody" evaluated that the legal right of way existed and that "somebody" visited the location and found no transportation infrastructure. Maybe there is a highway tag after all that fits? In some other datasets it's seems to be either called "unformed" or a "construction line" - not sure which definition fits here though. Another alternative is to add an area rather than a way and tag as natural=grass or =wood (and maybe access=yes?) >Yup, the errors are based on paper boundaries verse real world boundaries. But the real world can be legally forced to match the paper boundary in this case. Admittedly the absolute positioning can be out at times in the DCDB (I've seen a 15m error in a previous edition, since corrected) but the relative arrangements are meant to be a direct reflection of the thousands of individually- lodged survey plans since the "dawn of time". So there's "should" be nothing stopping you from traversing the length of Horswood Road, formed or not. If you get challenged, just say you're intending to follow Horswood Road. Having an easily-attainable copy of the DCDB map in your hand may help, which is another reason why having a CC-BY DCDB is such an epic win. Brendan ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Ross Scanlon : >> I intended to fix it as soon as I could work out what tags were >> needed, but I thought I'd give an example of what is possible thanks >> to the new data becoming available. > > Ok, so now a quick description of how you did this. Brendan has set up a WMS server of property boundaries, and things that aren't boudnaries show up as black areas and it's possible to guess which is roads depending how straight the gaps are between boudnaries. Here's a before shot of the area: http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/maleny.png ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
> I intended to fix it as soon as I could work out what tags were > needed, but I thought I'd give an example of what is possible thanks > to the new data becoming available. Ok, so now a quick description of how you did this. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 23:46:22 +1000 John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/3 Ross Scanlon : > > On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:29:13 +1000 > > John Smith wrote: > > > >> 2009/10/3 John Smith : > >> > Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out > >> > where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the > >> > boundary information doesn't reflect this. > >> > > >> > Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? > >> > > >> > >> I plotted out the missing streets in Maleny, Qld, as a test case to > >> figure the attributation tags out: > >> > >> http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=16&ll=-26.761,152.849&layer=BFF > >> > >> I've left everything as highway=road so I can easily work out what I did. > > > > Looks good. > > > > Leaving it as highway=road also gives the rest of us an indication that > > more needs to be added, way type, name, etc. > > I intended to fix it as soon as I could work out what tags were > needed, but I thought I'd give an example of what is possible thanks > to the new data becoming available. > The tags here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data.australia.gov.au/Queensland Look appropriate for the attribution and source. I'd probably leave them as highway=road as above. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Ross Scanlon : > On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:29:13 +1000 > John Smith wrote: > >> 2009/10/3 John Smith : >> > Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out >> > where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the >> > boundary information doesn't reflect this. >> > >> > Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? >> > >> >> I plotted out the missing streets in Maleny, Qld, as a test case to >> figure the attributation tags out: >> >> http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=16&ll=-26.761,152.849&layer=BFF >> >> I've left everything as highway=road so I can easily work out what I did. > > Looks good. > > Leaving it as highway=road also gives the rest of us an indication that more > needs to be added, way type, name, etc. I intended to fix it as soon as I could work out what tags were needed, but I thought I'd give an example of what is possible thanks to the new data becoming available. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 22:29:13 +1000 John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/3 John Smith : > > Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out > > where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the > > boundary information doesn't reflect this. > > > > Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? > > > > I plotted out the missing streets in Maleny, Qld, as a test case to > figure the attributation tags out: > > http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=16&ll=-26.761,152.849&layer=BFF > > I've left everything as highway=road so I can easily work out what I did. Looks good. Leaving it as highway=road also gives the rest of us an indication that more needs to be added, way type, name, etc. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Brendan Morley : > How do you mean "consumed"? Some land owners have taken over the land when it's probably still crown land. For example: http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-26.158115,152.64636&spn=0.007184,0.013937&z=17 Horswoord Road mostly doesn't exist, yet the land isn't listed as a property boundary at all, so the land has probably been squatted by nearby land owners. > Is this related to the comment you made on my diary entry at > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/morb_au/diary/8140 ? Yup, the errors are based on paper boundaries verse real world boundaries. > I've also added my own tagging examples at a new page at > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data.australia.gov.au/Queensland if that > helps. You have been busy :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
John, How do you mean "consumed"? Is this related to the comment you made on my diary entry at http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/morb_au/diary/8140 ? I've also added my own tagging examples at a new page at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data.australia.gov.au/Queensland if that helps. Brendan On Sat, 3 Oct 2009 19:06:45 +1000, John Smith wrote: >Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out >where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the >boundary information doesn't reflect this. >Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? >___ >Talk-au mailing list >Talk-au@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 John Smith : > Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out > where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the > boundary information doesn't reflect this. > > Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? > I plotted out the missing streets in Maleny, Qld, as a test case to figure the attributation tags out: http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=16&ll=-26.761,152.849&layer=BFF I've left everything as highway=road so I can easily work out what I did. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 James Livingston : > On 02/10/2009, at 9:01 PM, John Smith wrote: >> Might have to be a multipolygon, I just can't get it to render at all >> if I tell mapnik the tiles are dirty. > > I've just changed it over to be a multipolygon relation - if that > works, I'll go file a bug against the renderer. Nothing seems to be rendering at present, maybe they are reloading the database at present. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > The solution exists if we want to use a free download tool. I do have source > code for performing grid transformation from NTv2 files, but I think the > effort creating an accurate tool for bbq's isn't justified. > The tool from act gov will be within a metre. Its just a little annoying that > each set of coordinates will have to be copied into the tool. If needed I can > combine the spreadsheets and produce an all-one-solution that is within a > metre, probably by Monday. > The question is, do we need this? Is there sufficient data to justify > spending time on a spreadsheet solution? The ACT released a number of data sets, BBQs, Parks and Toilets, I'm not sure if this is enough data or not to justify the effort, but if it can be done simply then we should, alternatively we can just go out and survey them :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
The solution exists if we want to use a free download tool. I do have source code for performing grid transformation from NTv2 files, but I think the effort creating an accurate tool for bbq's isn't justified. The tool from act gov will be within a metre. Its just a little annoying that each set of coordinates will have to be copied into the tool. If needed I can combine the spreadsheets and produce an all-one-solution that is within a metre, probably by Monday. The question is, do we need this? Is there sufficient data to justify spending time on a spreadsheet solution? Evan On Saturday 03 Oct 2009 12:51:51 Liz wrote: > On Sat, 3 Oct 2009, John Smith wrote: > > 2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > > > The problem is there is not one spreadsheet. The downloadable tool is > > > rough enough for these types of POI. High accuracy between AMG to MGA > > > only can be done with tools that use grid transformation (a bit table > > > of values, NT file), these are also available as a free download, but > > > would then require two exe tools! > > > We could merge two spreadsheets, but not sure about the copyrights and > > > providing this merge sheet to the osm list. > > > > For personal use there shouldn't be an issue, and math formulas can't > > be copyrighted... > > > > Alternatively we could just wait to see if Liz gets a response from > > her son on how to do it... > > > > ___ > > Talk-au mailing list > > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > yes i've forwarded the mail to him > he does like a challenge > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Sat, 3 Oct 2009, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > > The problem is there is not one spreadsheet. The downloadable tool is > > rough enough for these types of POI. High accuracy between AMG to MGA > > only can be done with tools that use grid transformation (a bit table of > > values, NT file), these are also available as a free download, but would > > then require two exe tools! > > We could merge two spreadsheets, but not sure about the copyrights and > > providing this merge sheet to the osm list. > > For personal use there shouldn't be an issue, and math formulas can't > be copyrighted... > > Alternatively we could just wait to see if Liz gets a response from > her son on how to do it... > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au yes i've forwarded the mail to him he does like a challenge ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > The problem is there is not one spreadsheet. The downloadable tool is rough > enough for these types of POI. High accuracy between AMG to MGA only can be > done with tools that use grid transformation (a bit table of values, NT file), > these are also available as a free download, but would then require two exe > tools! > We could merge two spreadsheets, but not sure about the copyrights and > providing this merge sheet to the osm list. For personal use there shouldn't be an issue, and math formulas can't be copyrighted... Alternatively we could just wait to see if Liz gets a response from her son on how to do it... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
The problem is there is not one spreadsheet. The downloadable tool is rough enough for these types of POI. High accuracy between AMG to MGA only can be done with tools that use grid transformation (a bit table of values, NT file), these are also available as a free download, but would then require two exe tools! We could merge two spreadsheets, but not sure about the copyrights and providing this merge sheet to the osm list. Evan On Saturday 03 Oct 2009 12:13:57 John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > > I just took another look at the transformation tool > > http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/__data/assets/file/0016/5209/geomin32.exe > > and the spreadsheet is giving out the AMG lat long not MGA. > > I entered the lat long that the tool states is MGA into g'sat imagery and > > presto, mark straight on top of bbq! > > > > I will have a bit more of a play with the spreadsheet, but I think it may > > be a two step process, from ACT->AMG->MGA(WGS84) > > Surely there should be a way to do both steps mathematically in one > step... Pity these sorts of problems make my head hurt... > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > > I just took another look at the transformation tool > http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/__data/assets/file/0016/5209/geomin32.exe > and the spreadsheet is giving out the AMG lat long not MGA. > I entered the lat long that the tool states is MGA into g'sat imagery and > presto, mark straight on top of bbq! > > I will have a bit more of a play with the spreadsheet, but I think it may be a > two step process, from ACT->AMG->MGA(WGS84) Surely there should be a way to do both steps mathematically in one step... Pity these sorts of problems make my head hurt... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
I just took another look at the transformation tool http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/__data/assets/file/0016/5209/geomin32.exe and the spreadsheet is giving out the AMG lat long not MGA. I entered the lat long that the tool states is MGA into g'sat imagery and presto, mark straight on top of bbq! I will have a bit more of a play with the spreadsheet, but I think it may be a two step process, from ACT->AMG->MGA(WGS84) Evan. On Saturday 03 Oct 2009 10:21:57 John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/3 James Livingston : > > On 03/10/2009, at 5:21 PM, Evan Sebire wrote: > >> If someone knows a bbq that is clearly visible on the satellite > >> imagery that > >> would help to verify the procedure. > > > > There are two at > > http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=17&ll=-35.293,149.093&layer=BTT > > > > I think I did those from waypoints, but possibly I'm thinking of > > somewhere else and they were from imagery. > > Look at g'sat imagery there appears to be three: > > http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-35.293,149. > 093&sll=-35.456155,149.084899&sspn=0.00163,0.003484&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=117+W > eston+Park+Rd,+Yarralumla+ACT+2600&ll=-35.292513,149.093419&spn=0.000817,0. > 001742&t=h&z=20 > > Although the object towards the bottom left may be something similar > sized/shaped to a BBQ. > > Does anyone know if these BBQs have ID markings on them so we can > match BBQs from the list to lat/lon and then hand the ACT govt a > better list of BBQs back? :) > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Using the Qld govt boundaries information it's possible to work out where streets are, although some streets have been consumed and the boundary information doesn't reflect this. Does anyone know how roads drawn from this information should be tagged? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 James Livingston : > On 03/10/2009, at 5:21 PM, Evan Sebire wrote: >> If someone knows a bbq that is clearly visible on the satellite >> imagery that >> would help to verify the procedure. > > There are two at > http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=17&ll=-35.293,149.093&layer=BTT > > I think I did those from waypoints, but possibly I'm thinking of > somewhere else and they were from imagery. Look at g'sat imagery there appears to be three: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-35.293,149.093&sll=-35.456155,149.084899&sspn=0.00163,0.003484&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=117+Weston+Park+Rd,+Yarralumla+ACT+2600&ll=-35.292513,149.093419&spn=0.000817,0.001742&t=h&z=20 Although the object towards the bottom left may be something similar sized/shaped to a BBQ. Does anyone know if these BBQs have ID markings on them so we can match BBQs from the list to lat/lon and then hand the ACT govt a better list of BBQs back? :) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 03/10/2009, at 5:21 PM, Evan Sebire wrote: > If someone knows a bbq that is clearly visible on the satellite > imagery that > would help to verify the procedure. There are two at http://maps.bigtincan.com/?z=17&ll=-35.293,149.093&layer=BTT I think I did those from waypoints, but possibly I'm thinking of somewhere else and they were from imagery. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 Evan Sebire : > I stuffed up the Longitude of the central meridian, it should be 149.00929483. > That being said, I tested 5 different co-ords and some seem to be out/hard to > recognise bbq's. That put me along the shore line, slightly still in the water however :) > In the spreadsheet the data is recorded to mm accuracy, so it would not be to > much to expect it to be within 30m! That's the only thing I was concerned about, if the transformation to lat/lon is accurate but the original data isn't. > If someone knows a bbq that is clearly visible on the satellite imagery that > would help to verify the procedure. I can spot them on g'sat imagery, just can't figure out what it lines up with. http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-35%C2%B0+27'+26.49605%22+149%C2%B0+04'+59.15342%22&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=57.2581,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=3+Charles+Pl,+Gordon+ACT+2906&ll=-35.45591,149.084459&spn=0.000815,0.001742&t=h&z=20 Between the 2 green rooves there is a BBQ and between the 2 off white coloured rooves there is a BBQ... You can see the one between the green rooves from street view: http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-35%C2%B0+27'+26.49605%22+149%C2%B0+04'+59.15342%22&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=57.2581,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=3+Charles+Pl,+Gordon+ACT+2906&ll=-35.45591,149.084459&spn=0.000815,0.001742&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=-35.456077,149.084935&panoid=lb6WuNJjFn3pSCvet3AT3A&cbp=12,279.08,,0,5.28 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
I stuffed up the Longitude of the central meridian, it should be 149.00929483. That being said, I tested 5 different co-ords and some seem to be out/hard to recognise bbq's. I downloaded 7 parameter transformation tool(works with linux/wine) from http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/__data/assets/file/0016/5209/geomin32.exe and it gave identical results to the redfearn spreadsheet. So with the updated value for the meridian the spreadsheet seems to work correctly. The transformation should give sub metre accuracy, but it relies on input data being good :-) In the spreadsheet the data is recorded to mm accuracy, so it would not be to much to expect it to be within 30m! If someone knows a bbq that is clearly visible on the satellite imagery that would help to verify the procedure. Evan On Saturday 03 Oct 2009 06:57:09 John Smith wrote: > 2009/9/30 Evan Sebire : > > I adjusted the redfearn ( http://www.icsm.gov.au/gda/gdatm/redfearn.xls ) > > spreadsheet and the values I got were 149D 08' 10''.13261 and -35D > > 18'57''.42808 > > If someone wants to convert the ACT data it may be easiest to use the > > spreadsheet and then the data can be automatically feed into the cells. > > > > The Ellipsoid definition data: > > Semi major axis (a) (m) = 6378160 > > Inverse flattening (1/f) = 298.25 > > False easting (m) = 20 > > False northing (m) = 4510193.494 > > Central Scale factor (K0) = 1.86 > > Zone width (degrees) = 6 > > Longitude of the central meridian of zone 1(degrees) = 149.009146139 > > > > Then use zone 1 > > I followed the instructions above to try and convert the first BBQ > location in the XLS file to lat/lon and it ended up in the middle of a > pond... > > http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-35%C2%B0+27 > '+26.51971%22+149%C2%B0+04'+58.61814%22&sll=-35.496456,145.81604&sspn=3.336 > 08,7.13562&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Point+Hut+Pond&ll=-35.455388,149.081935&spn=0. > 00326,0.006968&t=h&z=18 > > Since there is a few BBQs in that park I can't figure out which one is > the one I'm looking for... > > 206,700 584,504 > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Hi All,
Just to let you all know, i signed up with your mailing list, and am happy
to help you all out. :-)
FYI I'm working with shp-to-osm.jar (java program) that ian dees made, and
am not using shp2osm (python) that others made ('cause i dont speak python
nor ibuntu language).
So I can be of assistance, and share what ive learned about the Canada
(CanVec data) and GeoBase data Import, and the crazy mess of data that we
have available up here.
Sometimes i'll cc the imports@ list, 'cause others might want to know too :)
about methods... as the problems/solutions are international.
Cheers,
Sam Vekemans
Across Canada Trails
Twitter: @Acrosscanada
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Evan Sebire : > > I adjusted the redfearn ( http://www.icsm.gov.au/gda/gdatm/redfearn.xls ) > spreadsheet and the values I got were 149D 08' 10''.13261 and -35D > 18'57''.42808 > If someone wants to convert the ACT data it may be easiest to use the > spreadsheet and then the data can be automatically feed into the cells. > > The Ellipsoid definition data: > Semi major axis (a) (m) = 6378160 > Inverse flattening (1/f) = 298.25 > False easting (m) = 20 > False northing (m) = 4510193.494 > Central Scale factor (K0) = 1.86 > Zone width (degrees) = 6 > Longitude of the central meridian of zone 1(degrees) = 149.009146139 > > Then use zone 1 I followed the instructions above to try and convert the first BBQ location in the XLS file to lat/lon and it ended up in the middle of a pond... http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=-35%C2%B0+27'+26.51971%22+149%C2%B0+04'+58.61814%22&sll=-35.496456,145.81604&sspn=3.33608,7.13562&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Point+Hut+Pond&ll=-35.455388,149.081935&spn=0.00326,0.006968&t=h&z=18 Since there is a few BBQs in that park I can't figure out which one is the one I'm looking for... 206,700 584,504 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/3 James Livingston : > On 02/10/2009, at 9:01 PM, John Smith wrote: >> Might have to be a multipolygon, I just can't get it to render at all >> if I tell mapnik the tiles are dirty. > > I've just changed it over to be a multipolygon relation - if that > works, I'll go file a bug against the renderer. Still no rendering... http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-17.3&lon=128.703&zoom=10&layers=B000FTFT > In any case, many of the National Parks don't have significant numbers > of trees (e.g. that one, or the Barrier Reef), and for those that do > the NP boundary isn't where the trees start and stop. In this case we're trying to show a feature on a map, not the boundary line of landuse... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 02/10/2009, at 9:01 PM, John Smith wrote: > Might have to be a multipolygon, I just can't get it to render at all > if I tell mapnik the tiles are dirty. I've just changed it over to be a multipolygon relation - if that works, I'll go file a bug against the renderer. > A forest in the UK doesn't have to have trees, it was a hunting > area... Arguably that's landuse= not natural= then, but let's not start that argument here. In any case, many of the National Parks don't have significant numbers of trees (e.g. that one, or the Barrier Reef), and for those that do the NP boundary isn't where the trees start and stop. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 02/10/2009, at 8:50 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > Regarding tags, when we worked on the Corine import in France, we > set up a page on the wiki where people were making their > suggestions. We then had a small debate on what was better and then > we voted. Indeed, hence my "I've uploaded a polygon, what do people think" post :) Since the WHA data is relatively simple (16 areas, although some are multiolygon) I figured I just upload one and see what people thought. If anyone think there are missing tags, or I've done it wrong, feel free to edit it. > And no, I am trying to preach anything here. I am just explaining > how we proceeded on the French mailing list. It took us several > months to end up completing the upload. And it is still uploading. I imagine we'd be doing much the same for any of the more complicated datasets, like the QLD castradal data ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/2 James Livingston : > The Maria Island NP (http://osm.org/go/uIcw8R7-) seems to render with > a boundary=national_park multipolygon. Assuming that it doesn't need > to be on a multipolygon relation if it can be done as a closed way, I > would imagine it should work. Might have to be a multipolygon, I just can't get it to render at all if I tell mapnik the tiles are dirty. > Google's satellite imagery would suggest that that NP had a dearth of > trees, so natural=wood or natural=forest wouldn't really be appropriate. Hence my comment about debate :) A forest in the UK doesn't have to have trees, it was a hunting area... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/2 Emilie Laffray : > Regarding tags, when we worked on the Corine import in France, we set up a > page on the wiki where people were making their suggestions. We then had a > small debate on what was better and then we voted. > When it was too tight on terms of vote, it was one "benevolent leader" that > ended up choosing which tags we would be going with or not. > I am not saying that it is the way to go with all the new data that you have > but it is one way of proceeding once you are done analyzing all the data > that you have obtained. I'm not suggesting I had the right tags, I was just pointing out it didn't appear to render for me, and a possible solution. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/2 James Livingston > On 30/09/2009, at 10:25 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > > I really like to see the vegetation cover and the forest!! What are they? > Shapefiles? If they are shapefiles, they come with their own projection > files and therefore can be easily converted into another coordinate using > ST_Transform inside Postgis. > > > At least some of them can be converted with shp2osm[0]. I converted the > World Heritage Area file on my machine, and just uploaded one of the > areas[1]. Does it look okay to people? If so, I'll go ahead and do the rest > of the WHA data. > > I also added a note to the new data.australia.gov.au wiki page[2] that > Hugh created. > > By the way, I apologize that I haven't been able to try converting some of the files. I have been swamped by work. If people wants to try, they will want to use gdal_polygonize. @John Regarding tags, when we worked on the Corine import in France, we set up a page on the wiki where people were making their suggestions. We then had a small debate on what was better and then we voted. When it was too tight on terms of vote, it was one "benevolent leader" that ended up choosing which tags we would be going with or not. I am not saying that it is the way to go with all the new data that you have but it is one way of proceeding once you are done analyzing all the data that you have obtained. And no, I am trying to preach anything here. I am just explaining how we proceeded on the French mailing list. It took us several months to end up completing the upload. And it is still uploading. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 02/10/2009, at 8:42 PM, John Smith wrote: > 2009/10/2 James Livingston : > With the current tags you've used it probably won't render, since it's > a national park you're going to get into the whole is it natural=wood, > or landuse=forest type debate, I think both get rendered as a green > shaded area... The Maria Island NP (http://osm.org/go/uIcw8R7-) seems to render with a boundary=national_park multipolygon. Assuming that it doesn't need to be on a multipolygon relation if it can be done as a closed way, I would imagine it should work. Google's satellite imagery would suggest that that NP had a dearth of trees, so natural=wood or natural=forest wouldn't really be appropriate. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/10/2 James Livingston : > areas[1]. Does it look okay to people? If so, I'll go ahead and do the rest > of the WHA data. With the current tags you've used it probably won't render, since it's a national park you're going to get into the whole is it natural=wood, or landuse=forest type debate, I think both get rendered as a green shaded area... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On 30/09/2009, at 10:25 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: I really like to see the vegetation cover and the forest!! What are they? Shapefiles? If they are shapefiles, they come with their own projection files and therefore can be easily converted into another coordinate using ST_Transform inside Postgis. At least some of them can be converted with shp2osm[0]. I converted the World Heritage Area file on my machine, and just uploaded one of the areas[1]. Does it look okay to people? If so, I'll go ahead and do the rest of the WHA data. I also added a note to the new data.australia.gov.au wiki page[2] that Hugh created. [0] http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/import/shp2osm/shp2osm.pl [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2709838 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Data.australia.gov.au_projects ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Emilie Laffray > > > 2009/9/30 John Smith > >> 2009/9/30 Emilie Laffray : >> >> > Of course, I will tell you! If I didn't want to share the knowledge, I >> > wouldn't have posted here :) >> >> Except I just looked and they're egri not shape files, any suggestions >> on converting? >> > > ok I briefly looked at the file format. They are raster images in the ESRI > grid format. Gdal provides a plugin to read that data. > http://www.gdal.org/frmt_various.html > > I haven't had time to investigate on how we can convert this to vectorial > data. > > Actually, the program we will want to use is http://www.gdal.org/gdal_polygonize.html Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 John Smith > 2009/9/30 Emilie Laffray : > > > Of course, I will tell you! If I didn't want to share the knowledge, I > > wouldn't have posted here :) > > Except I just looked and they're egri not shape files, any suggestions > on converting? > ok I briefly looked at the file format. They are raster images in the ESRI grid format. Gdal provides a plugin to read that data. http://www.gdal.org/frmt_various.html I haven't had time to investigate on how we can convert this to vectorial data. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
I adjusted the redfearn ( http://www.icsm.gov.au/gda/gdatm/redfearn.xls ) spreadsheet and the values I got were 149D 08' 10''.13261 and -35D 18'57''.42808 If someone wants to convert the ACT data it may be easiest to use the spreadsheet and then the data can be automatically feed into the cells. The Ellipsoid definition data: Semi major axis (a) (m) = 6378160 Inverse flattening (1/f) = 298.25 False easting (m) = 20 False northing (m) = 4510193.494 Central Scale factor (K0) = 1.86 Zone width (degrees) = 6 Longitude of the central meridian of zone 1(degrees) = 149.009146139 Then use zone 1 Evan On Wednesday 30 Sep 2009 13:27:36 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:13 PM, terryc wrote: > > Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > >> For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember: > >> Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 > >> (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837) > > > > AMG (lat/lon?) > > > >> BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045) > > Sorry, the very accurate ones were me giving a estimate of where I > think the X/Y points should be if anybody wanted to try a few > different systems and see if any matched. I did think it looked > similar to UTM but the locations don't seem to match when I try them > on the Geoscience site @ > http://www.ga.gov.au/geodesy/datums/redfearn_geo_to_grid.jsp > The commas are probably a red herring, in other parts of the files > years are written as 2,007. > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir : >> http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/tools_resources/maps_land_survey/surveying_data/surveyors_information/coordinate_system A quick google I also found this: Mt Stromlo Trig, ACT in Australian Trig Points S 35° 18.968 E 149° 00.632 55H E 682768 N 6090043 and from the above link: ACT Standard Grid Co-ordinates of Mt Stromlo Trig E 200,000.000 metres N 600,000.000 metres Wonder why they didn't just set Mt Stromlo to 0,0... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Alex (Maxious) Sadleir : > = -35.31595, 149.1363 and my guess was -35.31415,149.1374 There is about a 200m difference, depending where you are in Australia, between ADG66 and DGA94/WGS84, which at first look is about how far out your first guess was... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Dan O'Hara wrote: > Here is some info on the ACT grid > > "The ACT grid is a Transverse Mercator map projection that uses the > longitude of Mt Stromlo Trig Station as its central meridian. It is based > on the Australian Geodetic Datum 66 (AGD66), which is modified to take > advantage of the ACT’s limited east-west dimension and account for scale > differences caused by the ACT’s height above sea level. The resulting ACT > grid effectively can be treated as a plane (rather than geodetic) system of > coordinates using the formulae of plane trigonometry, without the need to > apply scale factors, grid convergence, arc-to-chord, or sea level > corrections. As a result, for all but the most accurate work in the ACT, > terrestrial, grid and plane measurements can be taken as being identical." > > http://www.actpla.act.gov.au/tools_resources/maps_land_survey/surveying_data/surveyors_information/coordinate_system > > I think the reason you didn't get a match is because the grid reference is > in yards not metres. Aha! Thank you! Using the downloadable tool they provide, I get the correct results and they match what I get when I run proj4 (via the definition at http://spatialreference.org/ref/sr-org/6628/ ): >>cs2cs +proj=tmerc +lat_0=0 +lon_0=149.00929483 +k=1.86 +x_0=20 >>+y_0=4510193.494 +ellps=aust_SA +units=m +no_defs +towgs84 +to +proj=latlong >>+datum=WGS84 211550.06 600190.55 149d8'10.668"E 35d18'57.41"S 22.802 = -35.31595, 149.1363 and my guess was -35.31415,149.1374 I did stare at it a while, hoping that adding the position of Mount Stromlo or something would give me the result in Excel. It does say "units=m" so I don't think the yards come into it (still doesn't explain the huge difference between ACT and AMG). But I suppose if someone wants to import this data, they could use PostGIS. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Emilie Laffray : > I really like to see the vegetation cover and the forest!! What are they? > Shapefiles? If they are shapefiles, they come with their own projection > files and therefore can be easily converted into another coordinate using > ST_Transform inside Postgis. Yes they all seem to be shape files, can you tell me how to convert these using postgis? Land Use of Australia, Version 3 – 2001/2002 http://data.australia.gov.au/90 The 2001/02 Land Use of Australia, Version 3, is part of a series of land use maps of Australia for the years 1992/93, 1993/94, 1996/97, 1998/99, 2000/01 and 2001/02. Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry Integrated Vegetation Cover (2003), Version 1 http://data.australia.gov.au/86 Represents vegetation cover across Australia and was compiled by integrating a number of recent vegetation-related datasets. Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry Forests of Australia 2003 http://data.australia.gov.au/92 The Commonwealth applies a national classification to the State and Territory data for forest type, cover, extent and tenure, enabling analyses and reporting of Australia’s forest estate. Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Dan O'Hara : > yep, but multiplied by 211,000odd and 600,000 odd it would add up - IF I've > got this right!!! It's it's from 1966 or later it will most likely be based on metres, at one point about then it was illegal to sell rulers etc with imperial measurements on them. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
yep, but multiplied by 211,000odd and 600,000 odd it would add up - IF I've got this right!!! From: John Smith To: "Dan O',Hara" Cc: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir ; OSM Australian Talk List Sent: Wednesday, 30 September, 2009 10:11:42 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website 2009/9/30 Dan O'Hara : > I think the reason you didn't get a match is because the grid reference is > in yards not metres. 1 yard is only slightly smaller than 1 metre, 0.9144 meters __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 John Smith > It looks like there is some datasets that would be useful > > * QLD property boundaries > * world heritage listing areas (tourism POIs?) > * BBQ, public toilet and park/playground locations in the ACT > * school locations in the ACT might be useful for landuse/POIs and/or > building outlines? > * drainage basins in QLD > * QLD wetlands > * Commonwealth marine protected areas > * SA boat ramps (POIs?) > * Australian land use data (may be out of date though 01/02) > * Forests of Australia > * Vegitation cover of Australia (2003) > * SA recreational boating hazards > * Australian federal electrorial boundaries (dunno how useful this > would be at all, might follow roads?) > > The murray/darling data could fill in some blanks in the current > rivers and missing rivers, and other smaller water ways? > > South Australian Road Crash Statistics, do we mark black spots on maps at > all? > > I really like to see the vegetation cover and the forest!! What are they? Shapefiles? If they are shapefiles, they come with their own projection files and therefore can be easily converted into another coordinate using ST_Transform inside Postgis. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Dan O'Hara : > I think the reason you didn't get a match is because the grid reference is > in yards not metres. 1 yard is only slightly smaller than 1 metre, 0.9144 meters ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Here is some info on the ACT grid"The ACT grid is a Transverse Mercator map projection that uses the longitude of Mt Stromlo Trig Station as its central meridian. It is based on the Australian Geodetic Datum 66 (AGD66), which is modified to take advantage of the ACT’s limited east-west dimension and account for scale differences caused by the ACT’s height above sea level. The resulting ACT grid effectively can be treated as a plane (rather than geodetic) system of coordinates using the formulae of plane trigonometry, without the need to apply scale factors, grid convergence, arc-to-chord, or sea level corrections. As a result, for all but the most accurate work in the ACT, terrestrial, grid and plane measurements can be taken as being identical." http://www.actpla.act.gov..au/tools_resources/maps_land_survey/surveying_data/surveyors_information/coordinate_system I think the reason you didn't get a match is because the grid reference is in yards not metres. From: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir To: OSM Australian Talk List Sent: Wednesday, 30 September, 2009 9:27:36 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:13 PM, terryc wrote: > Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > >> For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember: >> Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837) > AMG (lat/lon?) > >> BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045) Sorry, the very accurate ones were me giving a estimate of where I think the X/Y points should be if anybody wanted to try a few different systems and see if any matched. I did think it looked similar to UTM but the locations don't seem to match when I try them on the Geoscience site @ http://www.ga.gov.au/geodesy/datums/redfearn_geo_to_grid.jsp The commas are probably a red herring, in other parts of the files years are written as 2,007. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Liz wrote: > I'll forward this to adrian and he will be able to fill us in on the > coordinate system > > of course, then he'll want the $1K prize because he's a student he says he needs more points to unravel the puzzle two points aren't enough ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:13 PM, terryc wrote: > Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > >> For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember: >> Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837) > AMG (lat/lon?) > >> BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045) Sorry, the very accurate ones were me giving a estimate of where I think the X/Y points should be if anybody wanted to try a few different systems and see if any matched. I did think it looked similar to UTM but the locations don't seem to match when I try them on the Geoscience site @ http://www.ga.gov.au/geodesy/datums/redfearn_geo_to_grid.jsp The commas are probably a red herring, in other parts of the files years are written as 2,007. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote:
> For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember:
> Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837)
AMG (lat/lon?)
> BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045)
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Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 Dan O'Hara : > The Telopea Park references, outside of parentheses, would appear to be grid > points expressed in a Transverse Mercator projection of the Australian > National Spheroid ie very old (yards not metres I suspect) and not much use > unless you know the map and central meridian. The numbers in parentheses > would appear to be very, very, very, accurate decimal lats and longs (my GPS > only goes to 5 decimal places). You also get those sorts of number of decimal places when converting too. I'm trying to think of the system, it was used in street directories etc, you end up with like H56 as the grid co-ord, then you have number of metres from the starting x,y co-ord. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
The Telopea Park references, outside of parentheses, would appear to be grid points expressed in a Transverse Mercator projection of the Australian National Spheroid ie very old (yards not metres I suspect) and not much use unless you know the map and central meridian. The numbers in parentheses would appear to be very, very, very, accurate decimal lats and longs (my GPS only goes to 5 decimal places). From: Alex (Maxious) Sadleir To: OSM Australian Talk List Sent: Wednesday, 30 September, 2009 7:56:53 PM Subject: Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Smith wrote: > It looks like there is some datasets that would be useful > * BBQ, public toilet and park/playground locations in the ACT These BBQ and toilet data collections have coordinates in a format/projection I'm not familar with (The playground data only has street/suburb names). For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember: Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837) BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045) Does this look familar to anybody? By the way, it's acknowledged that the data isn't perfect. There's $1,000 bonus prizes if you make a mashup hard-to-access data and you make it easier for others to reuse that data @ http://mashupaustralia.org/data-sources/#additional. There's an example there of transforming the shape files of Queensland Local Government Boundaries Annual Extract into KML. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au __ Get more done like never before with Yahoo!7 Mail. Learn more: http://au.overview.mail.yahoo.com/___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Smith wrote: > > It looks like there is some datasets that would be useful > > * BBQ, public toilet and park/playground locations in the ACT > > These BBQ and toilet data collections have coordinates in a > format/projection I'm not familar with (The playground data only has > street/suburb names). > > For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember: > Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837) > BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045) > > Does this look familar to anybody? > > By the way, it's acknowledged that the data isn't perfect. There's > $1,000 bonus prizes if you make a mashup hard-to-access data and you > make it easier for others to reuse that data @ > http://mashupaustralia.org/data-sources/#additional. There's an > example there of transforming the shape files of Queensland Local > Government Boundaries Annual Extract into KML. > I'll forward this to adrian and he will be able to fill us in on the coordinate system of course, then he'll want the $1K prize because he's a student ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Smith wrote: > It looks like there is some datasets that would be useful > * BBQ, public toilet and park/playground locations in the ACT These BBQ and toilet data collections have coordinates in a format/projection I'm not familar with (The playground data only has street/suburb names). For example, Telopea Park has these two that I think I can remember: Toilet Block: X=211,550,Y=600,191 (-35.31415853430738,149.13748919963837) BBQ: X=211,576, Y=600,137 (-35.314867659800925,149.13786470890045) Does this look familar to anybody? By the way, it's acknowledged that the data isn't perfect. There's $1,000 bonus prizes if you make a mashup hard-to-access data and you make it easier for others to reuse that data @ http://mashupaustralia.org/data-sources/#additional. There's an example there of transforming the shape files of Queensland Local Government Boundaries Annual Extract into KML. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
It looks like there is some datasets that would be useful * QLD property boundaries * world heritage listing areas (tourism POIs?) * BBQ, public toilet and park/playground locations in the ACT * school locations in the ACT might be useful for landuse/POIs and/or building outlines? * drainage basins in QLD * QLD wetlands * Commonwealth marine protected areas * SA boat ramps (POIs?) * Australian land use data (may be out of date though 01/02) * Forests of Australia * Vegitation cover of Australia (2003) * SA recreational boating hazards * Australian federal electrorial boundaries (dunno how useful this would be at all, might follow roads?) The murray/darling data could fill in some blanks in the current rivers and missing rivers, and other smaller water ways? South Australian Road Crash Statistics, do we mark black spots on maps at all? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Well, they saved me the trouble, it's just gone up earlier this afternoon. Just look for the mashup australia blog post. The post points to data.australia.gov.au, go to the Geography category and go nuts. (-: As for the Qld DCDB-lite dataset, I'll have to load it into my WMS server over the next few nights and then give you the link. My test run took about 2-3 hours but I suspect the CC-BY version is veery similar. Brendan -original message- Subject: Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website From: John Smith Date: 30/09/2009 8:46 am 2009/9/30 : > I'll have to ask around but it might take a day or two. After all, for me OSM > is meant to be a fun hobby and chasing this up seems like work /-: Sorry if I implied I was asking someone to look into this, I just wondered if anyone knew off the top of their head. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:52 AM, John Smith wrote: > Does anyone know what ended up getting released yesterday, if it's > available yet, or when it's likely to be? http://data.australia.gov.au/catalogue/geography CC-BY-A licenced as promised. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/30 : > I'll have to ask around but it might take a day or two. After all, for me OSM > is meant to be a fun hobby and chasing this up seems like work /-: Sorry if I implied I was asking someone to look into this, I just wondered if anyone knew off the top of their head. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Quoting John Smith : > Does anyone know what ended up getting released yesterday, if it's > available yet, or when it's likely to be? I concur it does not appear to have made an appearance on the front page of gov2.net.au yet. I'll have to ask around but it might take a day or two. After all, for me OSM is meant to be a fun hobby and chasing this up seems like work /-: ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Does anyone know what ended up getting released yesterday, if it's available yet, or when it's likely to be? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Hi. On the issue of land parcels, does OSM support this (i.e. with useful information to do things like give the parcel an address)? I know you can relate a point to a street, and attach the street number to the point. Can you attach a number to an area, and relate it to a street? Possibly yes, as you can attach a street number to a building (which is an area). There was some discussion in another thread on mapping locations to addresses. With land parcels mapped you can do this pretty easily. - Ben. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/27 Brendan Morley : > All we Qld OSMers need to do is use the "attribution=State of Queensland > (Department of Environment and Resource Management) 2009" > tag, as per CC-BY. I presume it will be similar for other jurisdictions. If they release shape files since there is virtually no boundaries they could almost directly be imported without the need of a WMS server, couldn't they? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
2009/9/27 : > My interest is street centrelines, but if you have the patience to upload the > parcels then why not? If it's anything like google has, streets can be drawn between house blocks. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Quoting John Smith : > 2009/9/27 Brendan Morley : > > > All we Qld OSMers need to do is use the "attribution=State of Queensland > (Department of Environment and Resource Management) 2009" > > tag, as per CC-BY. I presume it will be similar for other jurisdictions. > > If they release shape files since there is virtually no boundaries > they could almost directly be imported without the need of a WMS > server, couldn't they? My interest is street centrelines, but if you have the patience to upload the parcels then why not? Might want to let the OSM data custodian know we'll be flooding them with edits?! Better wait until the chickens have hatched though. Brendan ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] New CC-BY datasets due Monday 28 September on Government 2.0 Taskforce website
Hello Aussie OSMers, Those recently at the last OSM South Brisbane meetup may remember I was going to get onto our Department of Natural Resources people to see when they were going to release their datasets under a GILF (CC-BY compatible) licence. It turns out there's been a little-publicised initiative within Federal Government called the Government 2.0 Taskforce @ http://gov2.net.au/ Note the blog post: http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/08/suggest-a-dataset-ideascale-competition-part-three/ "We are seeking your suggestions for datasets to be made available under the open access to public sector information principle (such as the Australian Toilet Map). These datasets will form the basis for our upcoming mashup competition." Also: http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/08/13/hack-mash-and-innovate-contests-coming-soon/ "we are working to make some datasets from various jurisdictions available on open access terms and in formats that permit and enable reuse. If we find that an agency is willing to make data available but cant because of a legacy system, we will outline the technical requirements and post it as a challenge to build and open source a tool that will help that agency (and possibly others) liberate the data." And the followup: http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/09/22/innovate-mash-camp-govt-2-0-contest-update/ "This is the one that I personally am most excited about. We are on track for launching this, possibly as early as next week. The combined forces of the Secretariat and my colleagues at DBCDE (thanks Judi and James) have been hard at work securing the agreement of at least 12 (yep, count them) federal agencies and at least four (possibly more) out of our seven states and territories to release datasets for use in the contest & (drum roll) in RDF, XML, JSON, CSV or XLS formats and under a Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 Australia license. [...] "We realise that data doesnt just mash itself up. We also want to bring the community together to share and collaborate. In an effort to do this, we are working on organising at least one mashup camp to be held in Sydney in late October/ early November. We also hope to hold one in Canberra in mid-October. Just to give yall a heads up that we are trying to give you a formal forum to get your innovative juices flowing to mashup the data that we have liberated." It turns out this competition is indeed due to launch on Monday. I can also say that the Queensland Government contribution to this competiton will be (data is in a range of formats, including DBF, PRJ, SBN, SBX, SHP & SHX): 1. Queensland Wetlands Mapping - Streams 2. Queensland Wetlands Data - Wetlands & Estates Layer including National Parks, Conservation Areas & Forest Reserves etc. 3. Drainage Basins Queensland 4. Groundwater Observation Bore Sites 5. Surface Water Gauging Stations Queensland 6. Property Boundaries Annual Extract Queensland (Lite DCDB) 7. Local Government Boundaries Annual Extract Queensland Other jurisdictions will also be releasing a smattering of datasets, they won't necessarily be the same themes. Well I'm pretty excited to the point where I'm planning to host a WMS server for at least dataset #6. It's about 2.1 million polygons, bless'em. If you lot promise not to DoS the server, I might even tell you the address once I get the CC-BY version of the dataset (-: All we Qld OSMers need to do is use the "attribution=State of Queensland (Department of Environment and Resource Management) 2009" tag, as per CC-BY. I presume it will be similar for other jurisdictions. I'd like to acknowledge my contact at Qld DERM for this heads up. However I'll leave him to introduce himself when the time's right. Brendan (morb_au) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
