Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Merging Guidelines
Bryce NaPTAN does not allow the character / to be part of a commonname as NaPTAN rules (not fully adhered to by TfL or LBSL) do not allow composite commonnames. Underground station entrances are included in NaPTAN data ... they are part of the 490 area data (whereas the stations themselves are in a national dataset prefixed 940) Roger -Original Message- From: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Bryce McKinlay Sent: 18 August 2009 01:08 To: Public transport/transit/shared taxi related topics Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN Merging Guidelines Thank you very much for your efforts on this, Thomas, and everyone else involved - I've been waiting for the London import for a while, and it's fantastic to see this data in OSM! I have one bug to report: Is it possible that special characters are being dropped from the stop names during the import? For example: node id=469789137 lat=51.5122005 lon=-0.1420652 version=1 changeset=2177128 user=NaPTAN uid=104459 visible=true timestamp=2009-08-17T13:40:06Z tag k=name v=Conduit Street Saville Row/ tag k=naptan:CommonName v=Conduit Street Saville Row/ ... TfL refers to this as Conduit Street / Saville Row, so it seems the / characters are going missing somewhere? Also, I'm curious whether, in addition to the bus stop data, NaPTAN contains precise locations for Underground station exits, and if so, whether there is any plan to import these? OSM often contains only one node for stations that have multiple exits, and in some cases the node is ambiguously placed such that it isn't clear which street (or which side of the street) an exit is on. This level of precision does become significant when producing walking maps/directions... Bryce On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Thomas Woodgrand.edgemas...@gmail.com wrote: I've only just realised that my previous message regarding the imports beginning only went to talk-gb and talk-gb-london. Greater London is now imported as changeset 2177128. I was planning to import Hull and Suffolk also this week. Now that we're importing the data, we really need to get our guidelines on how to merge and tidy the data sorted. I've pulled out the relevant pieces from the Birmingham wikipage out to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and_O SM_data It really needs to be tidied and beaten into a useful document before we let more people loose with the data. -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] pay_scale_area
Christoph Böhme wrote: In my opinion the name tag is used as a general purpose tag in OSM for names of all sorts of things. So, it appeared quite natural to use it for recording the names of the plus bus zones as well. From the other tags renderers can easily guess what type of object the name belongs to and the decide if it should be displayed. So there is no need to use namespaced versions of the name tag just to prevent the renderer from displaying it. It is rather useful that Mapnik will display a name of a feature which is of general interest but may have unknown tagging. For a new feature like PlusBus zones that are not intended for display on a general purpose map, it make more sense for them not to have a name or ref tag than to enter each one of them for non-display in the general Mapnik stylesheet. As a general rule, a new feature should not break existing code if possible. It is easily possible in this case by adding a prefix, with very little downside. Chris ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] NPTG locality viewer
Christoph Böhme christ...@b3e.net schrieb: The NPTG viewer and the Novam tools are not working at the moment because a server update went wrong. So, don't be surprised when you see a 500 - Internal Server Error. I'll try to sort it out tonight. The NPTG viewer and the Novam tools are working again. Christoph ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [talk-ph] gps traces from a delivery service company
As promised, one gps trace from the delivery service company: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/traces/485344 I edited some portions of Plutocrat's 1:50K topomap traced road. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2196308 On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I just had a phone discussion from a delivey/forwarding company. They own several delivery trucks equipped with GPS. They are willing to donate GPS traces provided we give them GPS maps (which I do anyway). Focus areas includes Visayas. Do you think this is a worthwhile data source? Of course we don't expect drivers to do the editing. Any idea on how we should proceed? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Conventions of primary/secondary/tertiary
Hi Kenny, I think I vaguely know that road, the section you describe, and indeed it looks more like a very local road instead of a main road. As most connecting, and more important roads, are secondary, it might be wise to 'scale it down' to tertiary. I have been doing some mapping in the Chimay - Bouillon - Dinant area a bit few weeks ago, and I noticed also there that some quite small roads have a N-number, even roads where 2 trucks can't pass without stopping and pulling over. Guess that when all roads will be mapped it will make sense... A similar 'downscaling' has been done in Antwerpen, where for instance the N1 becomes 'secondary' within the ringway. Guess this can be done in most places that have a ringway to keep transit traffic out of towncenter. Luc / Speedy On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 09:02 +0200, Kenny Moens wrote: Hello guys, On the wiki page the conventions for primary/secondary/tertiary roads are marked with question marks. Is there already a formal definition for those? Until now I've always applied these rules and they apply pretty good, however... some road I have problems with is the N286 connecting Tildonk - Wespelaar - Wakkerzeel - Werchter, the road is still marked as such in the field, both on traffic signs and on the kilometer poles, but the road is (certainly the section Wespelaar - Werchter) barely 4-5m wide... I don't think its a good idea to tag such a road as secondary then... Any suggestions? Kind regards, ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Conventions of primary/secondary/tertiary
Kenny Moens wrote: Hello guys, On the wiki page the conventions for primary/secondary/tertiary roads are marked with question marks. Is there already a formal definition for those? Until now I've always applied these rules and they apply pretty good, however... some road I have problems with is the N286 connecting Tildonk - Wespelaar - Wakkerzeel - Werchter, the road is still marked as such in the field, both on traffic signs and on the kilometer poles, but the road is (certainly the section Wespelaar - Werchter) barely 4-5m wide... I don't think its a good idea to tag such a road as secondary then... Any suggestions? The N286 is no longer a secondary road. The Flemish Region has given the road to the municipalities (Haacht, Herent and Rotselaar), so it's no longer the N286. A little bit of googling will direct you towards the texts of the Staatsblad. But of course it takes a while before the road numbers are all gone on the ground. Chances are there will still be some signs of the N286 in ten years if you look at other cases of demoted N-roads. In order to give future mappers a hint that the road is no longer secondary, I add the tag old_ref=N286 in these situations, because some other mappers will likely make it secondary again and add the ref numbers again. But experience tells me that they usually don't see the old_ref tag and will make them secondary again nevertheless... So basically, just handle the road like you would if it didn't had a road number. It's not exactly a road with trough traffic anymore in some places, so it can well become unclassified there. That said, the question marks on the wiki page were there because the rules were never really written down well -- something I'd like to do if I have some time. Which isn't immediately obvious as it's written down is that you could well bend those rules a little bit to match the topology. If a road has a road number but it lost all functions of handling through traffic, there's no point in keeping it secondary. This bit of N105 for example: http://osm.org/go/0EpLTtUuA- between the R6 and Kasteellaan, is just a small residential street with a dead end. Likewise you could give secondary or primary status to roads that don't have road numbers (for example when a primary road has for some reason a dead end on an unnumbered road which connects it to another primary road a few hundreds of meters further). An example: http://osm.org/go/0EpI5Dea here the Bedrijvenlaan between N109 (also Bedrijvenlaan), and the roundabout on the B101 isn't part of the N109. Yet it is used by all traffic to get there from E19, so you can make it secondary on that little bit. And there is more bending of those rules possible with city centers, roads with suffixes and other special cases where you basically have to decide based on the topology of the road network what to do with them. Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[Talk-si] Označevanje odsekov cest
Imam vprašanje glede označevanja odsekov cest. Ti so na terenu efektivno označeni in dolžina ceste, ki je označena za tablicah ob cesti, praktično začne z 0 pri novem odseku ceste. To sem opazil npr. na regionalni cesti R3 št. 617 kjer sem opazil dva odseka 1054 in 1055 (manjše številke črne barve napisane zraven številke ceste, ki je na rumeni podlagi). Ali na osm te odseke označimo (in kako) ali jih izpustimo? Po moje bi bilo smiselno označevanje, ne vem pa kako. Ena varjanta bi lahko bila ref=617-1054. Damjan G. ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
Re: [Talk-si] Označevanje odsekov cest
Jaz posameznih odsekov ne oznacujem, vpisem samo stevilko ceste, kategorizacijo, podlago (surface), source, kot je opisano na http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Sl:Map_Features . Podatek o samem odseku pa je verjetno zanimiv bolj za cestna podjetja, kot za navigacijo oz. kartografijo. LP, Miha. 2009/8/18 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net Imam vprašanje glede označevanja odsekov cest. Ti so na terenu efektivno označeni in dolžina ceste, ki je označena za tablicah ob cesti, praktično začne z 0 pri novem odseku ceste. To sem opazil npr. na regionalni cesti R3 št. 617 kjer sem opazil dva odseka 1054 in 1055 (manjše številke črne barve napisane zraven številke ceste, ki je na rumeni podlagi). Ali na osm te odseke označimo (in kako) ali jih izpustimo? Po moje bi bilo smiselno označevanje, ne vem pa kako. Ena varjanta bi lahko bila ref=617-1054. Damjan G. ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si -- LP, Miha. ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
Re: [Talk-si] Označevanje odsekov cest
Lahko bi jih oznaceval ampak ne tako da zdruzis referenco in odsek. Namesto tega kar si predlagal: ref=617-1054 bi raje uporabil locene tage: ref=617 section=1054 Na ta nacin lahko v OSM shranis dodatno informacijo brez da povozis nacin kako so se ceste oznacevale do sedaj. Mimogrede, to bi bilo dobro dodati med prdloge v wikiju. Pravzaprav je nekdo vceraj dodal predlog za section (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Feature/Section). Stvar se nanasa na kose parkov, pokopalisc, naselij, ... Ampak mislim da bi predlog lahko razsiril tudi na odseke cest. Blaz On Wednesday 19 August 2009 00:08:02 Damjan Gerli wrote: Torej, če sem prav razumel, odseke cest ne označujmo. LP Damjan PS: Na strani http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sl:Map_Features povezava na Uradni list:... ne deluje pravilno. Pravilna povezava je http://www.uradni-list.si/1/content?id=5835 , obstaja pa še sprememba http://www.uradni-list.si/1/content?id=46639 -Izvirno sporočilo- Od: Stefan Baebler [mailto:stefan.baeb...@gmail.com] Poslano: 18. avgust 2009 23:46 Za: Miha Kp: Damjan Gerli; talk-si@openstreetmap.org Zadeva: Re: [Talk-si] Označevanje odsekov cest V tabelo sem dodal fotografiji tablic za ilustracijo. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sl:Map_Features#Poti_.28highway.29 lp, Štefan 2009/8/18 Miha miha.urban...@gmail.com: Jaz posameznih odsekov ne oznacujem, vpisem samo stevilko ceste, kategorizacijo, podlago (surface), source, kot je opisano na http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Sl:Map_Features . Podatek o samem odseku pa je verjetno zanimiv bolj za cestna podjetja, kot za navigacijo oz. kartografijo. LP, Miha. 2009/8/18 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net Imam vprašanje glede označevanja odsekov cest. Ti so na terenu efektivno označeni in dolžina ceste, ki je označena za tablicah ob cesti, praktično začne z 0 pri novem odseku ceste. To sem opazil npr. na regionalni cesti R3 št. 617 kjer sem opazil dva odseka 1054 in 1055 (manjše številke črne barve napisane zraven številke ceste, ki je na rumeni podlagi). Ali na osm te odseke označimo (in kako) ali jih izpustimo? Po moje bi bilo smiselno označevanje, ne vem pa kako. Ena varjanta bi lahko bila ref=617-1054. Damjan G. ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si -- LP, Miha. ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si ___ Talk-si mailing list Talk-si@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [OSM-talk] copyright problem with datacopiedfrom a map
On 17 Aug 2009, at 19:13, SteveC wrote: On 17 Aug 2009, at 11:13, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/8/17 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: You may wish to set up a Belgium equivalent for this page to act as a record of such reverts. As you can see we have been having some problems of our own. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GB_revert_request_log actually I just fwded. the request as noone seems to care in talk I wouldn't say they don't care it's just it's a super busy list. Should we have a talk-vandalism list then? I am really conscious that the Lian123 'work' in Esssex/London/Kent/ Medway/Spain (Benidorm) and Germany that is listed on the 'GB-revert' page has compromised some very good work by other people and much of it is just sitting there waiting for tools good enough to dig it out again or at least point out which features have been subsequently edited without removing all the adjustments made by Liam123. This is certainly not the list for the discussion, nor it talk-gb and 'talk' itself is far to busy to have much sustained concentration on any one subject. Andy mentions that copyright violation needs to go to the Data Working Group. Why? Sure the foundation needs a log of action of copyright violations, but I don't see why the requested reverts, or 'plastering over the cracks' can't be put onto a public list by a concerned member of the public and is then acted on by a suitably confident member of the community. The foundation then steps back and only gets directly involved in the bigger more problematic cases. A talk vandalism list would also give much more visibility to the work that the Data Working Group is doing and indeed be that record that the foundation needs to prove that it responds to copyright violation. Regards, Peter Yours c. Steve ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [OSM-talk] copyright problem with datacopiedfrom a map
On 18/08/09 09:27, Peter Miller wrote: Andy mentions that copyright violation needs to go to the Data Working Group. Why? Sure the foundation needs a log of action of copyright violations, but I don't see why the requested reverts, or 'plastering over the cracks' can't be put onto a public list by a concerned member of the public and is then acted on by a suitably confident member of the community. The foundation then steps back and only gets directly involved in the bigger more problematic cases. The Data Working Group can do things, like sending email direct to the user from somebody official (ie the foundation) that ordinary users are not able to do. Hopefully people will be more likely to respond to such communication to explain what they are doing which can help determine whether there is in fact a problem with the data. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [OSM-talk] copyright problemwith datacopiedfrom a map
On 18/08/09 11:18, Peter Miller wrote: On 18 Aug 2009, at 10:30, Tom Hughes wrote: On 18/08/09 09:27, Peter Miller wrote: Andy mentions that copyright violation needs to go to the Data Working Group. Why? Sure the foundation needs a log of action of copyright violations, but I don't see why the requested reverts, or 'plastering over the cracks' can't be put onto a public list by a concerned member of the public and is then acted on by a suitably confident member of the community. The foundation then steps back and only gets directly involved in the bigger more problematic cases. The Data Working Group can do things, like sending email direct to the user from somebody official (ie the foundation) that ordinary users are not able to do. Hopefully people will be more likely to respond to such communication to explain what they are doing which can help determine whether there is in fact a problem with the data. But surely that is no reason not to set up community structures to deal with local vandalism at a local level where that can be achieved and to only escalate the most serious instances to the working group. As the OSM Dataset gets more complete and more accurate vandalism is going to become more of an issue and disruptive to the integrity of the project even if it is minor in nature, let alone what a serious vandal could do. We were talking about copyright infringement, not vandalism. That requires trying to talk to the user to find out where the data is coming from and why they believe it is OK to use. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Fwd: [OSM-talk] copyright problemwith datacopiedfrom a map
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Peter Millerpeter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: On 18 Aug 2009, at 10:30, Tom Hughes wrote: On 18/08/09 09:27, Peter Miller wrote: Andy mentions that copyright violation needs to go to the Data Working Group. Why? Sure the foundation needs a log of action of copyright violations, but I don't see why the requested reverts, or 'plastering over the cracks' can't be put onto a public list by a concerned member of the public and is then acted on by a suitably confident member of the community. The foundation then steps back and only gets directly involved in the bigger more problematic cases. The Data Working Group can do things, like sending email direct to the user from somebody official (ie the foundation) that ordinary users are not able to do. Hopefully people will be more likely to respond to such communication to explain what they are doing which can help determine whether there is in fact a problem with the data. But surely that is no reason not to set up community structures to deal with local vandalism at a local level where that can be achieved and to only escalate the most serious instances to the working group. Sure, and that's the explicit requirement before forwarding vandalism cases. Most of the people in this conversation were talking about the OP which was not vandalism -- it was copyright infringement. These are not the same things. Dave ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Selecting cycleways
Cartinus wrote: On Monday 17 August 2009 16:17:36 Tobias Knerr wrote: OR highway is not null AND cycleway is not null You might want check for cycleway=no here, there are a few hundreds of them. You'd want to exclude cycleway=opposite as well, because that is just removing the oneway restriction for bicycles. But isn't it still kind of a cycleway and thus worth making it visible on a cyclemap? -- m.v.g., Cartinus -Jukka- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] server not rendering fully
hi, I am setting up an India specific server with mod_tile and mapnik. I finally got the beast to work, but at higher zoom levels it is not rendering completely. Apparently it is giving up instead of generating the tiles fully. Obviously there is some setting I have to make in apache config to force it to produce the full tiles regardless of how long it takes. I have disable cache and also lengthened the timeouts. Any one has a clue as what can be done to force it to render the tiles properly? The server is here: http://xlquest.net/ -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: One of the goals of the meeting next week will be to set a timetable for getting local chapters set up, which will be largely dependent on how much we all agree / disagree in the call. Until then, please read over the Local Chapters wiki page and add as many comments or ideas as possible, so we can discuss next week. It's a bit exclusionary to state that and then already acknowledge that people can't make it due to time of day. And we do need to get input and output from the meetings as we have to make clear decisions which will fit into our legal frameworks in each case ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING
It can easily happen that there are several very active OSM contributors employed by the same (larger) company. Company's primary business might not be OSM (or even GIS) related, it might just be large enough to gather enough geo geeks. Those people might work in various branches, possibly not even knowing each other trough other channels than OSM. Introducing strict rules for specific situations is no good. CM could easily set up a new daughter company to employ Nick or Steve to bypass that rule if they wanted. Or a completely new, unrelated company entity and outsource the CM management position... What it would work is: - full disclosure of candidates' affiliations (done?) - any OSMF member can propose _anything_ to be voted upon at GM. This might be a general rule that Richard Weait suggested or a special voting round to eliminate one of the candidates in worst case (if voters determine that both candidates are individually good, but having both on board might be bad for the future of OSMF and none of them steps down, AND if voters first agree to vote about that in the first place) At the same time substantial part of OSMF membership (=voting body) can easily be bought by anyone with enough money and people to act as members, allowing them to change rules, statues or to dissolve OSMF (quickly visibly or subtly and slowly, taking OSM down with it). :) The bottom line: let's use common sense and try not to too quickly come up with general rules to cover specific issues. Stefan PS: i wonder if trust points could solve these issues as well :) On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:32 PM, SteveCst...@asklater.com wrote: On 15 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Richard Weait wrote: On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:43 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote: Nick, Nick Black wrote: I'm going to be standing for election to the OSM Foundation Board again this year. Do you and Steve have any comment on Richard Weait's suggestion that from every commercial organisation, at most one person should be a member of the OSMF board (http://weait.com/cloudmade-layoffs)? I'm very supportive of that, although not exactly out of fear that you might both be looking for a new job at the same time, but more along the lines of what RichardF said in the comments section on that page. This would mean that *either* your *or* SteveC should be on the board but not both of you. It is of course everyone's right to stand for election and let the voters decide if they support Richard's suggestion or not - but I would be interested in hearing your opinion. Nick followed up several times, but I can't see any answer to Frederik's direct question. I'd like to hear replies from each of the candidates on this. Should any single company be able to hold an unlimited number of seats on the Foundation board? A majority? All? I agree with others that the members should be the ones to decide. I don't think arbitrary rules will help much at this stage and I don't think it would ever get to the stage of being a majority or more anyway from any one organisation. There are eleven excellent candidates on the wiki, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09/Election_to_Board each qualified and suitable to hold a seat on the board. Each worthy of my vote. How does more than a single candidate from any company benefit the Foundation and the project? I'm not standing on a platform of 'I'm at CloudMade therefore vote for me' so really the company issue is a tertiary one. I think you should judge Nick and I on what we've done with our time helping OSM, which is very substantial, and not get hung up on this. The protections in OSM are very strong against anyone taking it over and I'm happy to make them stronger still. And as for the issue of Nick or I being let go from CloudMade... I can assure you I would still work just as hard on OSM. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Selecting cycleways
Rahkonen Jukka wrote: Cartinus wrote: You'd want to exclude cycleway=opposite as well, because that is just removing the oneway restriction for bicycles. But isn't it still kind of a cycleway and thus worth making it visible on a cyclemap? I forgot cycleway=opposite in my first reply, but it really isn't a cycleway. Imo, cycleway is a bad choice of key for this, something like oneway:bicycle=no would be much more appropriate. Unlike cycleway=opposite_lane and cycleway=opposite_track, there isn't any road or section of road specifically intended for bicycles, so it isn't more of a cycleway than any ordinary road. Of course, a cyclemap should still make sure to visibly indicate whether an oneway rule applies to bicycles. Tobias Knerr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM status POIs?
Apollinaris Schoell wrote: http://openstreetbugs.schokokeks.org/dumps/ offers downloads of the raw data. Thanks - I'll have a look at that. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
John, I said: so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. No-one is trying to exclude you - especially not the people who are trying set up local groups and make OSM and the OSM-F more inclusive :-) If there are people who want to take the call at a Australia/Asia/New Zealand friendly time, I've said that I'll go out of my way to make it and I'm sure some of the other Local Chapters volunteers will as well. Please add your details to the wiki page, suggest some friendly times and we'll set up a call. Alternatively, organize the call yourself at any time you want and give you feedback to the Local Chapters group lo...@osmfoundation.org. -- Nick On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:40 AM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 18/8/09, Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com wrote: Chapters meetings. You can find minutes here [1] along with information about the next meeting. There seems to be more questions posed than answers in the minutes... The next meeting is proposed for the 24th August at 18.00 - 19:30 BST. I know this is not great for a lot of people who are in non-BST friendly time zones, so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. I did, but it didn't seem to make a difference, also there is at least one other person that would like to have been in the conference but wasn't an insomniac last night either. One of the goals of the meeting next week will be to set a timetable for getting local chapters set up, which will be largely dependent on how much we all agree / disagree in the call. Until then, please read over the Local Chapters wiki page and add as many comments or ideas as possible, so we can discuss next week. It's a bit exclusionary to state that and then already acknowledge that people can't make it due to time of day. -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
On 18 Aug 2009, at 09:17, Nick Black wrote: John, I said: so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. No-one is trying to exclude you - especially not the people who are trying set up local groups and make OSM and the OSM-F more inclusive :-) If there are people who want to take the call at a Australia/Asia/New Zealand friendly time, I've said that I'll go out of my way to make it and I'm sure some of the other Local Chapters volunteers will as well. Please add your details to the wiki page, suggest some friendly times and we'll set up a call. Alternatively, organize the call yourself at any time you want and give you feedback to the Local Chapters group lo...@osmfoundation.org. Would a 'local chapters' email list not be a great way to include people from all around the world on different time zones for to include those for whom English is a second language? A combination of email list and wiki allow people to work at a time of there convenience, gives people time to read and write at their own speed (using translation tools if necessary) and there is a full history of the discussion. I suggest that conference calls and IRC are only used for those issues where email is not working or getting to an resolution on a difficult subject. Regards, Peter -- Nick On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:40 AM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 18/8/09, Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com wrote: Chapters meetings. You can find minutes here [1] along with information about the next meeting. There seems to be more questions posed than answers in the minutes... The next meeting is proposed for the 24th August at 18.00 - 19:30 BST. I know this is not great for a lot of people who are in non-BST friendly time zones, so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. I did, but it didn't seem to make a difference, also there is at least one other person that would like to have been in the conference but wasn't an insomniac last night either. One of the goals of the meeting next week will be to set a timetable for getting local chapters set up, which will be largely dependent on how much we all agree / disagree in the call. Until then, please read over the Local Chapters wiki page and add as many comments or ideas as possible, so we can discuss next week. It's a bit exclusionary to state that and then already acknowledge that people can't make it due to time of day. -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
Lennard schrieb: Peter Körner wrote: It reaches 100% when /Tromelin Island /is set to not-ok. I got Bahasa Indonesia at 229/230 with 2 countries (Tromelin, Turkey) as not ok. This happened because some countries were degraded to states, so they don't show up in the list but are still counted as ok. I'll fix ths as soon as i got the time for it :) Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
--- On Tue, 18/8/09, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: Would a 'local chapters' email list not be a great way to include people from all around the world on different time zones for to include those for whom English is a second language? A combination of email list and wiki allow people to work at a time of there convenience, gives people time to read and write at their own speed (using translation tools if necessary) and there is a full history of the discussion. I suggest that conference calls and IRC are only used for those issues where email is not working or getting to an resolution on a difficult subject. +1 The talk-au list is waiting on the outcome of these discussions/decisions before we can do anything about setting up something locally. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
On Tuesday 18 August 2009 07:40:15 am John Smith wrote: There seems to be more questions posed than answers in the minutes... Unfortunately with only 3 people in the conference it was not easy to take decisions. The next meeting is proposed for the 24th August at 18.00 - 19:30 BST. I know this is not great for a lot of people who are in non-BST friendly time zones, so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. I did, but it didn't seem to make a difference, also there is at least one other person that would like to have been in the conference but wasn't an insomniac last night either. Sadly for you, the earth is round and it's simply impossible to have a time which allow anyone to join. That's why we talked to have a second conference at a different time to allow other people to join. -- Vincent MEURISSE ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM status POIs?
Someoneelse wrote: Apollinaris Schoell wrote: there is something better already http://openstreetbugs.schokokeks.org/ Is there a way of getting data out of that easily? If there is it would make sense to be able to convert bugs within an area to e.g. Garmin waypoints. Use the OpenStreetBugs GPX export and then follow the steps described in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetBugs/GarminPOI ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] server not rendering fully
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: I am setting up an India specific server with mod_tile and mapnik. I finally got the beast to work, but at higher zoom levels it is not rendering completely. Apparently it is giving up instead of generating the tiles fully. Obviously there is some setting I have to make in apache config to force it to produce the full tiles regardless of how long it takes. I have disable cache and also lengthened the timeouts. Any one has a clue as what can be done to force it to render the tiles properly? The server is here: - Update your osm2pgsql to the current version (SVN version 0.66-17102) - Use the default.style from that newest osm2pgsql (SVN) - If you didn't already, pick up the newest osm.xml from SVN - Reimport your data into postgis - Update your mapnik to be at least 0.6.0 (current: 0.6.1) - Recompile mod_tile to synch it with the new mapnik - Clear your cache, restart apache - Try again To all that interests this: don't rely on tools included by your linux distribution to be up to date. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
here's my thoughts. If object is no longer present we need some sort of ghost tagging, and the ghost tag take precedent when rendering. This means that the data that was present is still available, its useful data after all. Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. Now for rendering we need an engine/style sheet that respects these tags. Burning Man 08 doesn't require many tiles, so it's something Y! can probably render and hard code? Quick and dirty maybe and wouldn't scale, but it would be a start. Cheers -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Mikel Maron Sent: 17 August 2009 10:01 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now! Hi I'm again working this year on mapping for the Burning Man arts festival, coming up in two weeks. This makes urgent a growing theme in OSM, with several presentations at this year's SOTM .. how to handle historic data. Here's the current map of Burning Man for 2009. I haven't added Camp locations yet, will come soon. http://playaevents.burningman.com/brc/2009/map/ That map data hasn't been added to OSM.org yet, because the prior year's map is still there, and still being used. For example, Flickr... http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/08/flickr-burning-man-open-street-map.html Why is 2008 historic map data now? Well each year, the location of the festival moves, to minimize impact on the area. Everything is rebuilt, created again over several weeks, existing as a place for one week, and then deconstructed over several weeks. However, the impact of Burning Man is year round, and for years to come; the amount of media generated and geotagged during the event is enormous. Take a look at the photos in the Flickr map to understand why. So I'd like to import 2009 BM into OSM now. But there's a need to retain the 2008 data. I'm opening the question up... what is the best way to mark this data as historic, keep it available as needed, but make sure it doesn't show up in core renderings? Look forward to some good ideas. Thanks Mikel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cyclelane on left/right
Jonas Häggqvist wrote: Norbert Hoffmann wrote: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/8/14 Konrad Skeri kon...@skeri.com: Are there any progress on the left/right situation on cycleway=lane/track that are only on one side of the street? yes, there is a solution for cycleway=track. Map it separately and tag highway=cycleway. track can be considered deprecated ;-) But don't forget to connect the cycleway to the road wherever it is possible to change from one to the other. Which it is at literally every single point in space along most Danish cycleways. This seems like a poor plan. It is indeed a very poor plan. Almost all major streets in danish cities have biketracks in each side of the street. In profile, the construction looks like this: sidewalk - \bikepath - |heavy traffic. --- When mapping a crossing of two such streets, you need to make the following construction: .|. .|. .|. .o|o .|. --o- .|. .o|o .|. .|. .|. That's five nodes for a single intersection! You can imagine how many bugs there are in the maps where mappers have not had the patience to do so! Mostly, mappers have just forgotten the connecting nodes, which doesn't matter much for map-drawing, but screws routing up badly. It means that the map in danish cities has gazillions of intersecting ways validation errors. Another thing is that you need to place the parallel cycleway about 20 meters from the highway to have it rendered on the map. And mappers have a hard time constructing a parallel cycleway, they often zigzag along the main road and it looks terrible. I know Jonas has some examples on how nice it looks when you use the cycleway=track on an osmarendered map (mapnik doesn't use the tag). Perhaps you can post those as an illustration, Jonas? PS: In fact there's a similar problem with sidewalks. There ought to be a city_street highway type with sidewalks. Cheers, Morten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] copyright problem with data copied from a map
Renaud MICHEL wrote: I replied one week ago explaining why he must not do that and asking him to remove all the edits he made based on that map, but had no more answer so far. So now I'm thinking about removing those edits myself, but am not sure what's the best way to do so. I don't know if the changeset can be reverted, as there are many of them, and I also did some edits there (changeset #1997354 #2005715 #2046924 a least) before knowing of the copyright problem. Any advice? I think I'm going to remove all this by hand with JOSM. But the ways will still be present in the DB with the history. Can we do something about this? It is best to continue trying to educate mappers about the problems of copyright. I know from experience (working with Ubuntu) that it takes a lot of effort, but eventually you get there. Copyright is complicated, and also not logical, so sometimes it's better to err on the side of caution. Educating mappers so they fully understand the free-and-open principles means that they in turn can teach others, and everyone saves time in the end. Throwing the book at this fellow is too harsh at this point. You can email him and politely ask if he wants to put the roads back on the GPS trace, or you will do it. Convince him to get a GPS and start collecting data. Tell him it's fun. Cheers, Morten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway
Nop wrote: Hatto von Hatzfeld schrieb: Official is new and has only one meaning. From Map features: official is used for ways dedicated to a certain mode of travel by law. Usually indicated by a traffic sign. I really do not see where the use of designated has differed from this definition. Which of the 5 definitions of designated do you mean? :-) *You* talked about 5 different meanings documented in the wiki. I found that all of them say something like specially designated (typically by a government) for use by a particular mode (or modes) of transport. You missed my central point when you skipped this phrase in your answer. Just read this topic from the beginning and you should understand. I have read most of this discussion - but instead of reading it twice I prefer to go out for mapping some cycleways ... By the way: Just read http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2008-December/031057.html (and the following discussion) and you should understand what I mean. Bye, Hatto ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. +1 This would make me very happy indeed; have even registered openpastmap.org in anticipation. Cheers, Joseph (an archaeologist, of sorts...) 2009/8/18 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: here's my thoughts. If object is no longer present we need some sort of ghost tagging, and the ghost tag take precedent when rendering. This means that the data that was present is still available, its useful data after all. Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. Now for rendering we need an engine/style sheet that respects these tags. Burning Man 08 doesn't require many tiles, so it's something Y! can probably render and hard code? Quick and dirty maybe and wouldn't scale, but it would be a start. Cheers -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Mikel Maron Sent: 17 August 2009 10:01 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now! Hi I'm again working this year on mapping for the Burning Man arts festival, coming up in two weeks. This makes urgent a growing theme in OSM, with several presentations at this year's SOTM .. how to handle historic data. Here's the current map of Burning Man for 2009. I haven't added Camp locations yet, will come soon. http://playaevents.burningman.com/brc/2009/map/ That map data hasn't been added to OSM.org yet, because the prior year's map is still there, and still being used. For example, Flickr... http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/08/flickr-burning-man-open-street-map.html Why is 2008 historic map data now? Well each year, the location of the festival moves, to minimize impact on the area. Everything is rebuilt, created again over several weeks, existing as a place for one week, and then deconstructed over several weeks. However, the impact of Burning Man is year round, and for years to come; the amount of media generated and geotagged during the event is enormous. Take a look at the photos in the Flickr map to understand why. So I'd like to import 2009 BM into OSM now. But there's a need to retain the 2008 data. I'm opening the question up... what is the best way to mark this data as historic, keep it available as needed, but make sure it doesn't show up in core renderings? Look forward to some good ideas. Thanks Mikel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
--- On Tue, 18/8/09, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Burning Man 08 doesn't require many tiles, so it's something Y! can probably render and hard code? Quick and dirty maybe and wouldn't scale, but it would be a start. Also if the burning man event moves each year there wouldn't be any overlap with past years, so this is a simple case, but I imagine that wouldn't be the average case where people want historical maps. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
2009/8/18 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: here's my thoughts. If object is no longer present we need some sort of ghost tagging, and the ghost tag take precedent when rendering. This means that the data that was present is still available, its useful data after all. Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. I'd opt for somehow reusing the normal object history already handled by OSM for keeping the object's real world history. So when you delete an object from OSM you could set a kind of deletion tag that would either inform that the object was a mistake and shouldn't have been stored in the DB in the first place or contain the end date of when the object stopped existing. The objects contained in planet snapshots and those rendered would always aim to reflect current state only, but historic data could be retrieved from history (yay). On the other hand, if adding new objects in the past is made too easy, keeping track of vandalism and/or spam in historic data will be quite a feat. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multilingual Country-List
This is not possible at the moment, as the list is based upon the list of existing wikipedias [1]. Which language do you want to add? Send me the name, the code, and the link to an wiki article and i'll think about how to add it. Peter [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix Aleksandr Dezhin schrieb: Hi! How to make a new country node appeared on the list http://cassini.toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/ ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. +1 So, I think that the question is related to whether you want something in the current dataset to represent the things that were 'here' at a previous time or have a way of entering 'new' historical data. Taking the burning man festival example - could you add an area tagged with snapshot date (rather than tagging individual items), which indicates that this portion of the map requires the renderer to 'find' historical OSM data from that date? This would remove the need to tag a lot individual items, but does not prevent a scheme where it would be possible to add 'new' historical data into the OSM data with start/stop dates. As for rendering, would this area be given a sepia tone? :-) For someone like flickr I would imagine that they would always want to render the historic portions, so would likely keep the 'old' snapshots of OSM data to hand. Cheers, Mungewell. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Link for editing via JOSM-remote-control-plugin
Mitja Kleider wrote: Alexander Menk wrote: can somebody add a link to open JOSM (localhost:8111) to http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/ ? Just use the JOSM remote bookmarklet, it works fine. http://blog.gegg.us/2009/07/bookmarklet-to-load-the-current-section-of-a- slippy-map-into-josm/ That one is really nice. Thanks! Alexander ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Revert a changeset
Could somebody please revert this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2168210 The moving of the nodes across the Atlantic is obviously wrong. Regards Teemu Koskinen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
I imagined a system whereby the default rendered map page looked much the same as the current Mapnik example, the only difference being the addition of a second slide-bar that changed the temporal view. By default you'd look at the map of the present day, but by pulling the slide down (or across...) you'd go back in time and features would disappear / appear accordingly. The Burning Man example would show the current state of things as they exist on the ground today, pull the slider back and you'll change to last years... Likewise for any country / area you'll be able to do the same. The technicalities of adding this data to the database could be tricky - perhaps a similar slider should be added to whatever interfaces people use (would be an issue for features that no longer exist cluttering the view), but or stuff that is on the ground today, it should be possible to just add a start_date tag. As for old versions of the OSM database, these would be very interesting for charting the growth of the map and for adding a historical dimension to a study of OSM, but the historical data should all be stored in the current database. We should look into adding chronological data to the data we already have. Adding this to the database shouldn't be too hard, I can find out when the office building I'm sat in at the moment was built, for example, but rendering the temporal element could cause headaches... More than willing to work on such an endeavour, however... Cheers, Joseph 2009/8/18 si...@mungewell.org: Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. +1 So, I think that the question is related to whether you want something in the current dataset to represent the things that were 'here' at a previous time or have a way of entering 'new' historical data. Taking the burning man festival example - could you add an area tagged with snapshot date (rather than tagging individual items), which indicates that this portion of the map requires the renderer to 'find' historical OSM data from that date? This would remove the need to tag a lot individual items, but does not prevent a scheme where it would be possible to add 'new' historical data into the OSM data with start/stop dates. As for rendering, would this area be given a sepia tone? :-) For someone like flickr I would imagine that they would always want to render the historic portions, so would likely keep the 'old' snapshots of OSM data to hand. Cheers, Mungewell. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] copyright problem with data copied from a map
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Morten Kjeldgaard m...@bioxray.au.dkwrote: It is best to continue trying to educate mappers about the problems of copyright. I know from experience (working with Ubuntu) that it takes a lot of effort, but eventually you get there. Copyright is complicated, and also not logical, so sometimes it's better to err on the side of caution. Educating mappers so they fully understand the free-and-open principles means that they in turn can teach others, and everyone saves time in the end. Throwing the book at this fellow is too harsh at this point. You can email him and politely ask if he wants to put the roads back on the GPS trace, or you will do it. Convince him to get a GPS and start collecting data. Tell him it's fun. +1 Let's not bite the newcomers. Educating them what's proper is the best first step. We only do drastic measures (like banning) only if the user persists. As for the existence of copyrighted data in the data history, I think this should be something that should be discussed (if not already). Wikimedia projects take the position that copyrighted infringing text that were reverted is ok even if it remains accessible through a page's history since there was a good-faith effort to remove the offending text. Maybe OSM can adopt a similar attitude but then again, Wikimedia is based in the U.S. while OSM has its servers in the UK so different copyright systems apply. Eugene ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote: On 18 Aug 2009, at 09:17, Nick Black wrote: John, I said: so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. No-one is trying to exclude you - especially not the people who are trying set up local groups and make OSM and the OSM-F more inclusive :-) If there are people who want to take the call at a Australia/Asia/New Zealand friendly time, I've said that I'll go out of my way to make it and I'm sure some of the other Local Chapters volunteers will as well. Please add your details to the wiki page, suggest some friendly times and we'll set up a call. Alternatively, organize the call yourself at any time you want and give you feedback to the Local Chapters group lo...@osmfoundation.org. Would a 'local chapters' email list not be a great way to include people from all around the world on different time zones for to include those for whom English is a second language? A combination of email list and wiki allow people to work at a time of there convenience, gives people time to read and write at their own speed (using translation tools if necessary) and there is a full history of the discussion. Sounds good. Mike - could you do the honours and set up a local chapters mailing list please? I suggest that conference calls and IRC are only used for those issues where email is not working or getting to an resolution on a difficult subject. Regards, Peter -- Nick On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:40 AM, John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.comwrote: --- On Tue, 18/8/09, Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com wrote: Chapters meetings. You can find minutes here [1] along with information about the next meeting. There seems to be more questions posed than answers in the minutes... The next meeting is proposed for the 24th August at 18.00 - 19:30 BST. I know this is not great for a lot of people who are in non-BST friendly time zones, so if you can't make it but would like to, please add your name to the wiki so we can have a second call at a better time. I did, but it didn't seem to make a difference, also there is at least one other person that would like to have been in the conference but wasn't an insomniac last night either. One of the goals of the meeting next week will be to set a timetable for getting local chapters set up, which will be largely dependent on how much we all agree / disagree in the call. Until then, please read over the Local Chapters wiki page and add as many comments or ideas as possible, so we can discuss next week. It's a bit exclusionary to state that and then already acknowledge that people can't make it due to time of day. -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cyclelane on left/right
tisdagen den 18 augusti 2009 13.45.24 skrev talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org: Are there any progress on the left/right situation on cycleway=lane/track that are only on one side of the street? yes, there is a solution for cycleway=track. Map it separately and tag highway=cycleway. track can be considered deprecated ;-) But don't forget to connect the cycleway to the road wherever it is possible to change from one to the other. Which it is at literally every single point in space along most Danish cycleways. This seems like a poor plan. It is indeed a very poor plan. Almost all major streets in danish cities have biketracks in each side of the street. In profile, the construction looks like this: sidewalk - \bikepath - |heavy traffic. --- By using the proposed segmented_tag relation [1] (I'd prefer it to be just called segmented) you could use cycleway:left and cycleway:right on the segment since the relation doesn't rotate if the way is rotated. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Segmented_Tag I also have an idea of having use for cycleway=track. A cycleway=lane is a lane - the bicycle area is separated from heavy traffic only by a painted line. A cycleway=track is still on the same carriageway, but separated from the heavy traffic by curbstones, height difference, or a small fence etc. (The Danish example would be a cycleway=track if I understand it.) And finally, on a highway=cycleway the carriageway for bicycles and heavy traffic is separated. Konrad ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
I'll happily donate the openpastmap.org domain towards an attempt at this. Will *possibly* be able to get a VM or two, plus some bandwidth, through my employer, if we ask very nicely... ;-) Cheers, Joseph 2009/8/18 John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net: I also believe that historic data should be stored in the database. I tend to think that it should just go in the end_date start_date fields and someone simply needs to modify osmosis or whatever is used to feed .osm data into postgres these days so that it filters out anything that doesn't fit the current date. I've heard various people say they basically want something like this since SOTM so I think people should just go ahead and do it. Make the action happen by default in osmosis (and/or other tools) and people will soon fix any broken tags. I suppose the issue then is when you want something to appear even though it's not really there currently, I think that would be best done with another tag e.g. not_a_valid_date_but_please_render_anyway_please=yes (but with a sensible name) Perhaps things labelled with that would have opacity 50% by default. John On 18 Aug 2009, at 15:39, Joseph Reeves wrote: I imagined a system whereby the default rendered map page looked much the same as the current Mapnik example, the only difference being the addition of a second slide-bar that changed the temporal view. By default you'd look at the map of the present day, but by pulling the slide down (or across...) you'd go back in time and features would disappear / appear accordingly. The Burning Man example would show the current state of things as they exist on the ground today, pull the slider back and you'll change to last years... Likewise for any country / area you'll be able to do the same. The technicalities of adding this data to the database could be tricky - perhaps a similar slider should be added to whatever interfaces people use (would be an issue for features that no longer exist cluttering the view), but or stuff that is on the ground today, it should be possible to just add a start_date tag. As for old versions of the OSM database, these would be very interesting for charting the growth of the map and for adding a historical dimension to a study of OSM, but the historical data should all be stored in the current database. We should look into adding chronological data to the data we already have. Adding this to the database shouldn't be too hard, I can find out when the office building I'm sat in at the moment was built, for example, but rendering the temporal element could cause headaches... More than willing to work on such an endeavour, however... Cheers, Joseph 2009/8/18 si...@mungewell.org: Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. +1 So, I think that the question is related to whether you want something in the current dataset to represent the things that were 'here' at a previous time or have a way of entering 'new' historical data. Taking the burning man festival example - could you add an area tagged with snapshot date (rather than tagging individual items), which indicates that this portion of the map requires the renderer to 'find' historical OSM data from that date? This would remove the need to tag a lot individual items, but does not prevent a scheme where it would be possible to add 'new' historical data into the OSM data with start/stop dates. As for rendering, would this area be given a sepia tone? :-) For someone like flickr I would imagine that they would always want to render the historic portions, so would likely keep the 'old' snapshots of OSM data to hand. Cheers, Mungewell. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Mike N.nice...@att.net wrote: From: Elena of Valhalla elena.valha...@gmail.com On Mon, 17 Aug 2009, John Smith wrote: Is 640x480 good enough? ;) ofcourse we want 1080p ;) is 640x480 good enough e.g to read street names and other signs? http://home.att.net/~niceman/VidCap1.jpg I took that yesterday from a helmet cam 1280 X 720. Generally I cannot read street signs across the street. This one is partially blurred by motion. Have you guys tried to take photos of signs with street names? You need a steady hand, and you aren't going to get a better results by using an video from a bike mounted cam. Though the video is very useful for other things, micro mapping. /Emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Erik Johansson schreef: Have you guys tried to take photos of signs with street names? We a lot of photos of that :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqKzFgACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn208QCgifK3b/sb3JLjujV5G8rN46wl aVEAnjUsgzbNUTS0hCyF8w3CCoPoinHw =SpEp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
From the Firewire camera link... -- A last thing you might consider: CMOS sensors (and some CCD but it is less efficient) have selectable 'regions of interrest' (ROI). This can increase the framerate dramatically with high-res cameras, or provide software pan/tilt by only sending an rectangular image region selected by the user. This is for instance very nice for high-res, high-speed object tracking. -- If you got really fancy you could have a split optics into a lowish res camera pair with a high res camera, so that regions of interest could be automatically tracked... Simon. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
Check also the ContourHD camera :) We are also experimenting with that. Looks pretty sweet shame it doesn't have an external MIC input for recording (FSK'ed) telemetery data such as speed/lat/log/ele/etc. If they were really smart they would put a NMEA input port and have this stored as additional data within the MPEG stream. That would 'sell it' to a lot of people!! Simon. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
2009/8/16 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 16/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway A lot of work has been done there between the various types of model/miniature railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of 'ridable' miniature railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full size' Some of those border on light rail or narrow gauge, looking at some of the photos it looks like regular railway track. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Bure_Valley_Railway_DSC00533.jpg Compared to something like this: http://scrms.org.au/files/IMGP5229.JPG Looking at this (and I know of two Miniture Railways one is 9 (Strood, Gillingham, Kent, Uk) and the other 3.5/5.5 (Mote Park, Maidstone, Kent, Uk) Tagging Railway=miniture makes sence (in both cases) but they are quite different animals. I think we should tag the Gauge (Possibly in all cases) and assume Standard Railway Gauge if not tagged. I think a Gauge=width (in mm I guess) is worth adding. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
On 18 Aug 2009, at 17:47, Peter Childs wrote: 2009/8/16 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 16/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway A lot of work has been done there between the various types of model/miniature railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of 'ridable' miniature railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full size' Some of those border on light rail or narrow gauge, looking at some of the photos it looks like regular railway track. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Bure_Valley_Railway_DSC00533.jpg Compared to something like this: http://scrms.org.au/files/IMGP5229.JPG Looking at this (and I know of two Miniture Railways one is 9 (Strood, Gillingham, Kent, Uk) and the other 3.5/5.5 (Mote Park, Maidstone, Kent, Uk) Tagging Railway=miniture makes sence (in both cases) but they are quite different animals. I think we should tag the Gauge (Possibly in all cases) and assume Standard Railway Gauge if not tagged. I think a Gauge=width (in mm I guess) is worth adding. Do check out the recent comments on the railways wiki page re gauge http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Railways Regards, Peter Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] copyright problem with data copied from a map
Hello Le mardi 18 août 2009 à 13:55, Morten Kjeldgaard a écrit : Educating mappers so they fully understand the free-and-open principles means that they in turn can teach others, and everyone saves time in the end. Throwing the book at this fellow is too harsh at this point. You can email him and politely ask if he wants to put the roads back on the GPS trace, or you will do it. Convince him to get a GPS and start collecting data. Tell him it's fun. That's what I did. I first sent him a message telling him that he was doing wrong edits. He answered me once and told me he was actually copying a scanned map. So I answered back explaining why he should not do that, that was eight days ago and to this day I've had no more answers. I've sent him another message two days ago telling him that his edits might be removed due to copyright problem if he did not clarify the situation. As adviced by Andy, I've sent a mail to the osmfoundation explaining the situation. -- Renaud Michel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
From: Elena of Valhalla elena.valha...@gmail.com I took that yesterday from a helmet cam 1280 X 720. Generally I cannot read street signs across the street. This one is partially blurred by motion. Just a thought on this... do you know which frame of the GOP this is from. I frames would be the clearest, followed by P and then B. The issue of blur may be able be reduced if your camera has a sports or fast shutter mode. Simon. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 si...@mungewell.org schreef: Using a decent mount (ie. DIY steady cam ideas) and in-built image stablization in the camera may help. Check also the ContourHD camera :) We are also experimenting with that. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqK2DsACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn35rACfTIq6mn44EARZWPitmvKEwfYh 6WgAn3HTpfDxprxtq13TxnYdZxhsJW9E =8B3j -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cyclelane on left/right
Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: I know Jonas has some examples on how nice it looks when you use the cycleway=track on an osmarendered map (mapnik doesn't use the tag). Perhaps you can post those as an illustration, Jonas? For example here: http://osm.org/go/0H8UF1OW?layers=0B00FTF I do somewhat understand the idea that you want to map everything completely accurately, and hence want to map the cycleway as a separete way, but the resulting is appalling at anything but z18 or above. Not to mention the routing problems. Ie. on this map: http://osm.org/go/0h8u...@b-?layers=0b00ftf you can easily go from the cycleway on the right to any of the evenly numbered houses on the left, but routing would lead you to the nearest intersection to do a 3-point-turn and wait for up to 3 red lights in the same intersection. -- Jonas Häggqvist rasher(at)rasher(dot)dk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 si...@mungewell.org schreef: Check also the ContourHD camera :) We are also experimenting with that. Looks pretty sweet shame it doesn't have an external MIC input for recording (FSK'ed) telemetery data such as speed/lat/log/ele/etc. If they were really smart they would put a NMEA input port and have this stored as additional data within the MPEG stream. That would 'sell it' to a lot of people!! You know that the company that made Amarillo trip trackers actually added features that were proposed by us. We just have to find the guys in Asia that makes these stuff :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqK3xYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2Q7ACeKpT1X8icWBcBPnsAPMflddZH wYEAnRObDRda2JzvilwYbu+PNjejrXGZ =KF9F -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 si...@mungewell.org schreef: From the Firewire camera link... -- A last thing you might consider: CMOS sensors (and some CCD but it is less efficient) have selectable 'regions of interrest' (ROI). This can increase the framerate dramatically with high-res cameras, or provide software pan/tilt by only sending an rectangular image region selected by the user. This is for instance very nice for high-res, high-speed object tracking. -- If you got really fancy you could have a split optics into a lowish res camera pair with a high res camera, so that regions of interest could be automatically tracked... The point with CMOS camera's is that they usually have electronic rolling shutters that gets a really /bad/ result when moving the camera. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqK3tgACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3yuACeONEEWUutHvvxOUPzxLjlLk9e qQkAoIxkMIDLN3bYDUtDyqrdZf3pZ0+W =JupM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
Just a thought on this... do you know which frame of the GOP this is from. I frames would be the clearest, followed by P and then B. The issue of blur may be able be reduced if your camera has a sports or fast shutter mode. I played with the jog mode, but could not find a clearer view in a nearby frame. This is the Contour HD - fantastic for general sports and action recording, but not quite a dream cam for OSM surveys. It has a sports mode for 60 FPS, but that will also reduce the field of view from 135 degrees to 90 degrees. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Revert a changeset
2009/8/18 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 18 Aug 2009, at 14:57, Teemu Koskinen wrote: Could somebody please revert this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2168210 The moving of the nodes across the Atlantic is obviously wrong. Do check out this page for guidance and the email address for requests to the data working group. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism Note that I have been working on this page today and have added a section for 'speedy response' in cases where a failure to respond within hours could lead to highly visible damage to the rendered maps or changes in sensitive areas (for example Washington - particularly sensitive given the support and visibility given to OSM by the Whitehouse). Note that most incorrect edits spanning more than a few nodes need a speedy response because soon people start making edits on top of the unwanted changeset and reverting it becomes more difficult. Since I had the setup for this ready, I reverted the changeset 2168210 in my changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2192016 but I had to make a couple of edits before uploading it: * xybot had helpfully made an edit on top of some of the nodes removing a spurious tag and causing conflicts. * I did not revert the creation of node 469327157 (a parking) which seems genuine. * Something really strange: node http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/270798013/history is edited two times inside the same changesets and revert.pl didn't deal correctly with this. Personally I think we need a huge effort to be ready for damaging vandalism and much better tools to spot potential errors in a much more sophisticated way. Agreed. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
2009/8/18 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 18 Aug 2009, at 17:47, Peter Childs wrote: 2009/8/16 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 16/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway A lot of work has been done there between the various types of model/miniature railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of 'ridable' miniature railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full size' Some of those border on light rail or narrow gauge, looking at some of the photos it looks like regular railway track. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Bure_Valley_Railway_DSC00533.jpg Compared to something like this: http://scrms.org.au/files/IMGP5229.JPG Looking at this (and I know of two Miniture Railways one is 9 (Strood, Gillingham, Kent, Uk) and the other 3.5/5.5 (Mote Park, Maidstone, Kent, Uk) Tagging Railway=miniture makes sence (in both cases) but they are quite different animals. I think we should tag the Gauge (Possibly in all cases) and assume Standard Railway Gauge if not tagged. I think a Gauge=width (in mm I guess) is worth adding. Do check out the recent comments on the railways wiki page re gauge http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Railways Good Point, I've not marked them yet, so I can easily metricate that 0.2286 and 0.0889/0.1397 however I think tagging the unit might be better in this case (for the same reason as tagging max speed). My main problem is the one at mote park has 3 rails rails 1 and 2 are for 3.5inch gauge trains and 1 and 3 are for 5.5 gauge trains (where rails are numbered 1,2,3) The one at the Strand is 61 years old and is larger than the standard documented on the wikipedia. Are Miniture Railways a British Thing, or is it that they appear most often in the Uk? (Making us Brits a load of Train enthusiasts) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
Hey All, As of yesterday, the Google Summer of Code has ended. With some appropriate pride, I offer you signFinder: http://code.google.com/p/signfinder/ . As part of the OpenStreetPhoto project, this program detects, segments, and reads dutch street-signs. For high-quality pictures (and not too old street-signs), performance is good. The project is right now trained to read dutch street-signs, but as long as they have a distinct color, there's no reason why it couldn't read foreign street-signs. Read this: http://code.google.com/p/signfinder/wiki/TrainingOtherCountries document on how to adapt the signFinder to street-signs of other countries. The end of the summer of code, doesn't mean that I'll stop working on this project. There are still methods to explore, and performance to improve. More importantly: I'm looking for practical applications for this software. I'll be working with Stefan and others on an integration with the OpenStreetView / OpenStreetPhoto project, but suggestions on an exact use are welcome, as well as wholly unrelated ideas. I just saw that a discussion going on about video in OpenStreetView. I expect to have a video to play with soon, and will report if results are reasonable. - Tijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Peter Childspchi...@bcs.org wrote: Are Miniture Railways a British Thing, or is it that they appear most often in the Uk? (Making us Brits a load of Train enthusiasts) they used to be quite widespread in italy when i was young, and I know at least one in my town that is still mostly active. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' homepage: http://www.trueelena.org email: elena.valha...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video inputs to OpenStreetView
DSLR - The Canon 50D has HD video with manual focus. Which would record high quality shots. Video - I borrowed a camera from a friend the other day, it was a helmet cam kit from dogcam it has a small colour camera unit that you put on the helmet or bike/car. It also has a seperate unit that records the data to a cf card and will record for 5 hours. Here is the best bit it has a gps reciver port on it so it can do gps logging at the same time. Irrc the kit is ~£500 but decent kit, I used it for onbike recordings of Cadwell Park but sadly I didn't have a gps reciver to plug into it. I did a test with me driving in the van so I might try and match it to my gps log (zumo550) and see how it goes. Jack On Aug 18, 2009 6:12 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote: Just a thought on this... do you know which frame of the GOP this is from. I frames would be th... I played with the jog mode, but could not find a clearer view in a nearby frame. This is the Contour HD - fantastic for general sports and action recording, but not quite a dream cam for OSM surveys. It has a sports mode for 60 FPS, but that will also reduce the field of view from 135 degrees to 90 degrees. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://li... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
I was thinking of mapping some of the festival sites around here as we have the Glastonbury festival and if iphone and g1 users could navagate around all the food places and stages it would be a grate help to them. On Aug 18, 2009 4:44 PM, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote: I'll happily donate the openpastmap.org domain towards an attempt at this. Will *possibly* be able to get a VM or two, plus some bandwidth, through my employer, if we ask very nicely... ;-) Cheers, Joseph 2009/8/18 John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net: I also believe that historic data should be stored in the database. I tend to think that it should just go in the end_date start_date fields and someone simply needs to modify osmosis or whatever is used to feed .osm data into postgres these days so that it filters out anything that doesn't fit the current date. I've heard various people say they basically want something like this since SOTM so I think people should just go ahead and do it. Make the action happen by default in osmosis (and/or other tools) and people will soon fix any broken tags. I suppose the issue then is when you want something to appear even though it's not really there currently, I think that would be best done with another tag e.g. not_a_valid_date_but_please_render_anyway_please=yes (but with a sensible name) Perhaps things labelled with that would have opacity 50% by default. John On 18 Aug 2009, at 15:39, Joseph Reeves wrote: I imagined a system whereby the default rend... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Spam] Revert a changeset
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:48:03 +0300, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/18 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 18 Aug 2009, at 14:57, Teemu Koskinen wrote: Could somebody please revert this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2168210 The moving of the nodes across the Atlantic is obviously wrong. Do check out this page for guidance and the email address for requests to the data working group. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism I don't think this case was deliberate vandalism, other edits from the user seems to be good. Note that I have been working on this page today and have added a section for 'speedy response' in cases where a failure to respond within hours could lead to highly visible damage to the rendered maps or changes in sensitive areas (for example Washington - particularly sensitive given the support and visibility given to OSM by the Whitehouse). Note that most incorrect edits spanning more than a few nodes need a speedy response because soon people start making edits on top of the unwanted changeset and reverting it becomes more difficult. What we need, as has been previously discussed on the list, is a similar mechanism that wikipedia has that will revert an edit easily, maybe even from the website ui. Since I had the setup for this ready, I reverted the changeset 2168210 in my changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2192016 but I had to make a couple of edits before uploading it: * xybot had helpfully made an edit on top of some of the nodes removing a spurious tag and causing conflicts. * I did not revert the creation of node 469327157 (a parking) which seems genuine. * Something really strange: node http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/270798013/history is edited two times inside the same changesets and revert.pl didn't deal correctly with this. There still seems to be some problem, the way http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39175980 still goes across the Atlantic, but it looks different than before. Personally I think we need a huge effort to be ready for damaging vandalism and much better tools to spot potential errors in a much more sophisticated way. Agreed. I spotted this with the Geofabriks OSM Inspector, but that's still a bit too slow to update, it would be much better if it updated at least hourly or even from the minute diffs. The revert tools should also be made to look what exactly was modified in the changeset. Eg. if a node was moved, but tags were left untouched, and after that someone else modified only the tags but didn't move the node, reverting the first change should only move the node back to it's original position and not change the tags back as those were changed by someone else. Teemu Koskinen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
Hi As I guessed the bug with the 100% comes from countries that aren't countries anymore. They are removed from the list with the hourly update, but if you got your list open while this happens you can still mark it as ok. so we got a country that only exists in this language - and more than 100% ok :) I removed those countries and included a fix in the ajax-script that handles the mark-ok-request that checks for the existence of this country in the list. Namely they are http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424313867 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424317578 which are both islands now. By the way i added http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/25342325 (Alderney) which was somehow missing. The other bug is a hard one. As long as I'm not able to reproduce it, i can't fix it. I'm feeling sorry about having these bug in this tool. It was just an experiment, hacked together in three or four nights - so no clear structure in the programming nor the database. I know I can do better (I'm doing every day at work) but this was my first tool on a toolserver, my with first tool working with geo-data and my first tool using the osm-api, so please perceive it just as an hacky experiment - not fully worked-out tool, and thus be gently with me :) Just had to say that. Peter I think there was a bug introduced during resorting of the list or during the transition from zh-classic - zh-classical. The list behaves strange. Once I noticed that when i changed a country name in one language, the status of the same country name in another language changed also. I cannot verify or nail down any bug from remote. Please see also the image attached which shows a 100.43% progress for translation of the Arabic country names. http://cassini.toolserver.org/~mazder/multilingual-country-list/?lang=ar It reaches 100% when /Tromelin Island /is set to not-ok. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
Whooohoow this is so cool! Looks like a lot of Voodoo to me :) As I saw from the samples It doesn't work well on blurred images, so it won't work with sth. like a helmet or a car camera, would it? Peter Tijs Zwinkels schrieb: Hey All, As of yesterday, the Google Summer of Code has ended. With some appropriate pride, I offer you signFinder: http://code.google.com/p/signfinder/ . As part of the OpenStreetPhoto project, this program detects, segments, and reads dutch street-signs. For high-quality pictures (and not too old street-signs), performance is good. The project is right now trained to read dutch street-signs, but as long as they have a distinct color, there's no reason why it couldn't read foreign street-signs. Read this: http://code.google.com/p/signfinder/wiki/TrainingOtherCountries document on how to adapt the signFinder to street-signs of other countries. The end of the summer of code, doesn't mean that I'll stop working on this project. There are still methods to explore, and performance to improve. More importantly: I'm looking for practical applications for this software. I'll be working with Stefan and others on an integration with the OpenStreetView / OpenStreetPhoto project, but suggestions on an exact use are welcome, as well as wholly unrelated ideas. I just saw that a discussion going on about video in OpenStreetView. I expect to have a video to play with soon, and will report if results are reasonable. - Tijs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
Agreed! start_date and end_date are best. Suppose for Burning Man, I can just go ahead and use these tags, and whatever bad result comes out can be used as motivation for the main rendering systems to tweak their processing (ie add an osmosis step) to deal with this. Or with updated stylesheets. Whatever works best for the renderers. That may result in overlapping Burning Man maps .. that could be ok for OSM itself. For Burning Man, and possibly for Flickr, I've set up another rendering system. -Mikel From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com To: Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com; talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 4:43:23 AM Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now! here's my thoughts. If object is no longer present we need some sort of ghost tagging, and the ghost tag take precedent when rendering. This means that the data that was present is still available, its useful data after all. Ideally there would be a start_date and end_date tag also that defines the period when the object was present. Now for rendering we need an engine/style sheet that respects these tags. Burning Man 08 doesn't require many tiles, so it's something Y! can probably render and hard code? Quick and dirty maybe and wouldn't scale, but it would be a start. Cheers -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Mikel Maron Sent: 17 August 2009 10:01 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now! Hi I'm again working this year on mapping for the Burning Man arts festival, coming up in two weeks. This makes urgent a growing theme in OSM, with several presentations at this year's SOTM .. how to handle historic data. Here's the current map of Burning Man for 2009. I haven't added Camp locations yet, will come soon. http://playaevents.burningman.com/brc/2009/map/ That map data hasn't been added to OSM.org yet, because the prior year's map is still there, and still being used. For example, Flickr... http://radar.oreilly.com/2008/08/flickr-burning-man-open-street-map.html Why is 2008 historic map data now? Well each year, the location of the festival moves, to minimize impact on the area. Everything is rebuilt, created again over several weeks, existing as a place for one week, and then deconstructed over several weeks. However, the impact of Burning Man is year round, and for years to come; the amount of media generated and geotagged during the event is enormous. Take a look at the photos in the Flickr map to understand why. So I'd like to import 2009 BM into OSM now. But there's a need to retain the 2008 data. I'm opening the question up... what is the best way to mark this data as historic, keep it available as needed, but make sure it doesn't show up in core renderings? Look forward to some good ideas. Thanks Mikel___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Peter Körner schreef: Whooohoow this is so cool! Looks like a lot of Voodoo to me :) As I saw from the samples It doesn't work well on blurred images, so it won't work with sth. like a helmet or a car camera, would it? Camera's are not by default blury, they become blurry if the shutterspeed is too low ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqLFs8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn01pgCfVghYTWT8QOYriSX2wZS7pHoJ Q0kAn0uvW5ybMm9J5JU5mvnLK3FH2G24 =ZXVS -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Local Chapters Meeting Minutes WAS Re: Status of the Local Chapter working group
Hi, Peter Miller wrote: I suggest that conference calls and IRC are only used for those issues where email is not working or getting to an resolution on a difficult subject. +1 Telephone calls are too intrusive. Someone might have to pick up their child from school at the time you have scheduled the call; someone might have a hard time following people in a foreign language over a distorted voice link (mind you, the Cloudmade-sponsored telcos are vastly better than any intercontinental VOIP stuff I've been participating in, but still). I can see a role for Telcos where decisions need to be made quickly but there's no reason not to give ample time to everybody in the Local Chapters issue. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
2009/8/18 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Namely they are http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424313867 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424317578 which are both islands now. By the way i added http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/25342325 (Alderney) which was somehow missing. *poke* (Montenegro is still missing) Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
andrzej zaborowski schrieb: 2009/8/18 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Namely they are http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424313867 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/424317578 which are both islands now. By the way i added http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/25342325 (Alderney) which was somehow missing. *poke* (Montenegro is still missing) It seems there is no node for it. Searching if with the Namefinder doesn't bring up a node. I'd need a node id to add it to the list. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GSoC End: signFinder
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:02:07 +0200, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Peter Körner schreef: Whooohoow this is so cool! Looks like a lot of Voodoo to me :) As I saw from the samples It doesn't work well on blurred images, so it won't work with sth. like a helmet or a car camera, would it? Camera's are not by default blury, they become blurry if the shutterspeed is too low ;) And for a fully automated camera, the shutterspeed is set by light conditions, i.e. not enough light = blurry pictures -- Brgds Aun Johnsen via Webmail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Maps-l] Announcemen: Multilingual Country-List
Peter Körner wrote: (Montenegro is still missing) It seems there is no node for it. Searching if with the Namefinder doesn't bring up a node. I'd need a node id to add it to the list. I think it's 445970763 -- Marcin Cieslak // sa...@saper.info signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Lane turn restrictions
I looked on the wiki but couldn't see anything... Is there any suggested way of marking up turn restrictions for individual lanes of a road to enable sat navs to provide lane guidance (e.g. keep right, move into the left lane, etc)? -- - Steve xmpp:st...@nexusuk.org sip:st...@nexusuk.org http://www.nexusuk.org/ Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
--- On Wed, 19/8/09, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: I think a Gauge=width (in mm I guess) is worth adding. Why not just use width=* which is already in use for a lot of other things? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
--- On Wed, 19/8/09, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: Are Miniture Railways a British Thing, or is it that they appear most often in the Uk? (Making us Brits a load of Train enthusiasts) There seems to be a number of them around Australia as well, some have a lot of track, eg 4km of 5 and 7.25 track at Casino, NSW. http://www.casinominirail.com/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
I am hoping in a couple of weeks to map the grounds at a festival that occurs yearly in the same spot. This is not so much historical data, as data that's only true for three weeks a year. The rest of the time, it's just fields, with a few items (some toilets, etc) that stay in place year round. Would this come under historical mapping, or some other tagging scheme? Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:06 AM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: Actually time and space is the 4th dimension :) People already want editors that can handle 3D, not just 2D so they can map out complex buildings and very complex roads that overlap each other and so forth. The editor wouldn't need to specify a time box, but could sort it out locally after it downloads the data, same with 3D data I guess. Yes, ok then, 4D. And yes, in the short-term I guess the editor could download data from *all time* - but *eventually* the API will need to support this kind of bounding box including a time limit, because the length of the time dimension will grow to infinity into the future. I won't want to be fetching infinity KB of data. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Stephen Hopeslh...@gmail.com wrote: I am hoping in a couple of weeks to map the grounds at a festival that occurs yearly in the same spot. This is not so much historical data, as data that's only true for three weeks a year. The rest of the time, it's just fields, with a few items (some toilets, etc) that stay in place year round. Would this come under historical mapping, or some other tagging scheme? Good question. If you treated it as historical mapping, you would create a duplicate set of nodes/ways/relations for each year, with appropriate absolute start/end dates (for that year). Is this satisfactory? Actually, an alternative is to relax the definition of start_date and end_date to be not just absolute times, but more flexible as follows: Think of a calendar application where you can define a meeting that is 3 to 5 pm on Wednesdays in 2009 - this is not an 'absolute' description of the time the meeting comes into and out of existence, but nevertheless is sufficient to describe when the meeting exists. Is this all we need for OSM, i.e., to be able to answer the question: given the start_date and end_date of this node/way, does it exist at this particular time, x? On another note, I would propose using start_time and end_time rather than *_date, because time (as a dimension of existence) is really what we're talking about. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
--- On Wed, 19/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, ok then, 4D. And yes, in the short-term I guess the editor could download data from *all time* - but *eventually* the API will need to support this kind of bounding box including a time limit, because the length of the time dimension will grow to infinity into the future. I won't want to be fetching infinity KB of data. Most data in historic information is very tiny areas, most of the data will be only current information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:43 AM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: Most data in historic information is very tiny areas, most of the data will be only current information. It seems we have different ideas about the scope of this proposal, then. I thought the implication was that in the future, if something that has been mapped ceases to exist, it should not be deleted, but appended with an end_date tag, and any new features should be added and appended with a start_date tag. This would lead to massive amounts of historic information into the future - i.e. nothing that has been correctly mapped need ever be deleted. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
--- On Wed, 19/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: This would lead to massive amounts of historic information into the future - i.e. nothing that has been correctly mapped need ever be deleted. Even so, this would be a minority of data, the majority of roads rarely if ever change. New roads get added, major highways get upgraded or moved, but residential streets stay put, railways usually stay put, rivers don't move very fast, coastlines don't move very fast. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:34 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 19/8/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: This would lead to massive amounts of historic information into the future - i.e. nothing that has been correctly mapped need ever be deleted. Even so, this would be a minority of data, the majority of roads rarely if ever change. New roads get added, major highways get upgraded or moved, but residential streets stay put, railways usually stay put, rivers don't move very fast, coastlines don't move very fast. Think POI's, names, landuse, boundaries, development (from natural to farmland to houses to commercial development). And think long-term. *Eventually*, by definition, historical data will indeed be the majority of data - time is infinite, Earth is finite. But anyway, can we move on? I'm simply saying we should look at this as what it really is - extending OSM to the time dimension. If you don't think the API will need to be extended, fine. I think it would be nice :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Historic Mapping needs help Now!
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Roy Wallacewaldo000...@gmail.com wrote: But anyway, can we move on? I'm simply saying we should look at this as what it really is - extending OSM to the time dimension. Apologies everyone, I hadn't noticed the following existing proposal. Please have a look and leave comments there: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/4th_Dimension ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] webpagina
Lambertus wrote: Maar goed, het probleem van de beperkte GPX export is opgelost. Je kunt nu virtueel oneindig lange routes exporteren. Oeps, dan moet je natuurlijk de productie versie wel synchroniseren met SVN... Ok, nu dan echt. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] OSM Foundation Board 2009 verkiezing t/m a.s. donderdag
Tot en met donderdag kan er nog gestemd worden voor de nieuwe Foundation Board dus als je OSMF lid bent kijk dan nog even op: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09/Election_to_Board Stemmen kan persoonlijk tijdens Annual General Meeting of via de mail. Groet, Floris ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Google Summer of Code 2009 - signFinder.
Hallo Iedereen, vanaf gisteren is de Google Summer of Code officieel afgelopen. Via deze weg wil ik iedereen bedanken voor de reacties, ideeen, en natuurlijk de felbegeerde straatnaamborden! ;) Er is nu een product dat straatnaamborden detecteert, segmenteert, en leest. Met name in nieuwbouwwijken met nette schone blauwe borden is de performance hoog (+90% op mijn eigen testset, maar naar maanden ontwikkeling is dit een cijfer met overfitting). Bovendien is de code nu opgeschoond zodat hij ook voor personen die niet Tijs heten te begrijpen moet zijn, en is er een hoeveelheid documentatie. Alles is te vinden op Google Code: http://code.google.com/p/signfinder/ . Meer weten over het proces / geinteresseerd in pretty pictures? - Bekijk vooral ook mijn blog-posts: http://blog.opengeo.nl/index.php/tag/signfinder/ Dit betekend niet dat ik niet meer aan dit project ga werken. Er zijn nog interessante andere methoden om te proberen en de performance te verbeteren, en binnenkort gaan Stefan en ik werken aan een website + service, waarmee anderen makkelijk deze 'signReading' functionaliteit in eigen producten kunnen gebruiken. Daarnaast ben ik natuurlijk geïnteresseerd in praktische toepassingen voor dit product. Heb je goede ideeen? Ergens een half (of heel) project liggen dat kan profiteren van het lezen van straatnaamborden? - Laat het me weten, en ik zal graag samenwerken om deze functionaliteit nuttig in te zetten. Groeten, Tijs ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Taggen voor Topologie mag dat?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hoi, Momenteel ben ik alle haltes van de metro aan het splitten. Ik hoop daarmee uiteindelijk de metro routes 'netjes' en volledig in relaties te krijgen. En voorlopig de afstanden te kunnen meten. Momenteel waren alle routes getekend (onderandere door Paulbe) als continue lijnen (er mooi) maar we kunnen er topologisch geen gebruik van maken. Ik hoop dat door deze actie zich niemand op z'n tegen getrapt voelt, het heeft een goed doel. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqLEjMACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1gbACeP8thg8ZK+oOFqpaHl20pO3gS WLwAmwW2a0GjloFUte93D0pyY+/tKJQ8 =O+Mt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Taggen voor Topologie mag dat?
Stefan de Konink wrote: Momenteel ben ik alle haltes van de metro aan het splitten. Ik hoop daarmee uiteindelijk de metro routes 'netjes' en volledig in relaties te krijgen. En voorlopig de afstanden te kunnen meten. Momenteel waren alle routes getekend (onderandere door Paulbe) als continue lijnen (er mooi) maar we kunnen er topologisch geen gebruik van maken. Ik hoop dat door deze actie zich niemand op z'n tegen getrapt voelt, het heeft een goed doel. Aangezien het niet mogelijk is om op een andere manier de relaties aan de metroroutes te koppelen, lijkt het me dat het wel mag. Iemand heeft dat ook voor busroutes in mijn woonplaats gedaan. Eventueel zou OSM ervoor kunnen kiezen om relaties aan delen van ways (tussen twee knooppunten) te koppelen, maar volgens mij haal je je dan meer problemen op de hals. Ideaal is het toevoegen van routerelaties in ieder geval niet. Groeten, Frank ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Taggen voor Topologie mag dat?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Frank Steggink schreef: Eventueel zou OSM ervoor kunnen kiezen om relaties aan delen van ways (tussen twee knooppunten) te koppelen, maar volgens mij haal je je dan meer problemen op de hals. Ideaal is het toevoegen van routerelaties in ieder geval niet. ;) Ik ben het zo met je eens ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkqLHwkACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0q4gCeKzCu+s+b6UbqCke+Rnx8phKp 07oAnjv822/iNVzSV8DOp6EhRiKZBcg9 =wfk0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[talk-au] Nambour Mapping Party
There has been great work here related in Ash Kyd's diary. I've had a quiet whisper that someone in Sydney wishes a mapping party be organised - well you've got a lot to aim for now! I live about 600km from Sydney so am not available to organise a mapping party in Sydney. But next time I have to visit Wollongong we could have some sort of a Gong meetup. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nambour Mapping Party
--- On Tue, 18/8/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: I've had a quiet whisper that someone in Sydney wishes a mapping party be I should do a write up on the wiki on how I organised the Nambour mapping party, it technically would be possible for anyone to organise a mapping party anywhere, attending them is a different matter :) However it really didn't take much effort, you could skip a few things like mail outs to other groups, I think it might be better to approach these groups about a talk then being invited to a mapping party. You also don't need to get a banner printed. All you really need is some quiet space, maybe with internet but most last weekend seemed to have internet access via their phones. You then just need to set up a wiki page with the relevant details, where/when etc, mail to this list and possibly adding a social event to the geocaching.com site too. Once the server I'm doing maps on is back up and running I plan to have some method for people to add events to the events calendar. That's about it, to be most effective these events nearly need to be regular, that way people will know roughly when an event is and so on. David Dean is planning to hold these events the third Friday/Saturday of each month. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....
John Smith-129 wrote: --- On Mon, 17/8/09, BlueMM bluemm1975-...@yahoo.com wrote: But my point was if they *are* consistent (same shield design), why specify state? Consistent to what? Some states have gone to a alphanumeric system, some use the old NH shields and those with the alphanumeric system have different shields between states. http://www.routemarkers.com/Oceania/ That website appears inaccurate. It says the state route marker is no longer used in Vic, but there is a route with that marker a block away from me right now. Also, the M1/7 example appears wrong, AFAIK, the one used in VIC is more like the NSW one, without the outer green border. It has slightly rounded inner green square an outer white border (also rounded). I don't think the outer green border is worth showing a different shield, just make them all the same. Maybe it's worth creating a Australian rendering page on the wiki where we can collect all the different route signs. With the addr: specifier, there's no reason why we can't get the Australian/state specific shields into the main OSM map (mapnik). John Smith-129 wrote: I don't know if any are consistent right around Australia, but I suggest we mention drop the state for know national shields. From what I've seen there is no consistency, even when they change to the alphanumeric system they still differ in the shields they use :) Is the tiny differences worth it? I don't think so John Smith-129 wrote: I can think of a potentially hundreds of routes which are for eg. C123 and called TownA-TownB Road. It could be that is far more prevalent that needing the separate ref/name relations. Just trying to keep it simple, anyone else got ideas/opinions? I've only been talking about highways, not roads, I haven't considered what to do about roads, same thing as streets I suppose. That seems contrary to the new changes to the Australian Tagging Guidelines regarding M/A/B/C Alphanumeric routes (ie. this proposal). It seems to me to apply to all road routes. Most of the BC rural roads I know in Victoria are not highways. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/I%27ve-been-trying-to-fix-the-highway-shields-and-came-across-this-tp24970890p25021174.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - Australian Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....
On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, BlueMM wrote: That website appears inaccurate. It says the state route marker is no longer used in Vic, but there is a route with that marker a block away from me right now. Also, the M1/7 example appears wrong, AFAIK, the one used in VIC is more like the NSW one, without the outer green border. It has slightly rounded inner green square an outer white border (also rounded). I don't think the outer green border is worth showing a different shield, just make them all the same. Maybe it's worth creating a Australian rendering page on the wiki where we can collect all the different route signs. With the addr: specifier, there's no reason why we can't get the Australian/state specific shields into the main OSM map (mapnik). http://www.ozroads.com.au/ is a better site, well photodocumented with dates for each photo ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Minor Highways
I couldn't find the email Liz wrote about it, but I've just created a ref relation for the Gwydir Highway, as a result I can't see a good reason for 2 relations in this case. In the case of the A1 in QLD that's a diff matter as the A1 is more than just one highway. Can anyone think of a good reason for multiple relations on minor highways? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] maps.bigtincan.com
The server is currently en route to the data centre and will be back up shortly, it took longer than expected for this to happen due to things outside our control. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] maps.bigtincan.com
Server is now back up and running, and instead of being in a virtual it is now on the server itself, quad core xeon with 4G of ram and scsi 10k hdd's, so it should be a tad faster :) Because it was offline for a few days it's still catching up with OSM change files and is about 14 or so hours out of date still, but it should be up to date within a few hours give or take. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....
I'm going to be adding Tourist Route Shields to the map shortly but in the process of looking for a graphic I came across this page on wikipedia: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Route_shields_of_Australia It lists shields for a number of things like Alt National Route, and on one of the other wiki pages it uses 'D' routes to mean Detour however these routes aren't in the same category as MABC. Does anyone think this is a good idea? Use network=D for D classified roads, if they exist. Use network=detour for NSW classified detour routes Use network=alt_NR for Alternate NR routes ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Bruce Highway... A1 only or A1+M1 ?
Can anyone from Brisbane confirm this. As far as I can tell the Bruce Highway which starts just after the Gateway Motorway ends north of Brisbane and is only tagged A1, however both wikipedia and ozroads think the Bruce Highway is signed as M1 as far north as Cooroy. All the signs on the dual carriage way going south of Cooroy and north of the Nambour connection road have had a cut out riverted over the old shields and now only have A1, but I don't go to Brisbane much/at all so I can't remember what they are south of Nambour. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this....
D roads certainly do exist, however at times the signs are covered over/folded up etc. The one I know for certain is a Pacific Highway detour which heads West from Nabiac and goes up to Krambach: http://osm.org/go/uaQzXe_ After that I don't know where it goes. There's a D sign at this intersection: http://osm.org/go/uaQzVoPL but I've not followed it after that. I guess it goes to Gloucester and follows the Buckets Way back to the Pacific Highway ~30km North of Raymond Terrace. The D sign linked to above was only installed after a fatal accident occured on the Pacific Highway at Buladelah which resulted in all traffic being diverted at Nabiac (and a large number of cars passing by our property on Wallanbah Road requiring directions). Prior to that accident ~2 years ago I don't think there was an official detour route, so they may only be temporary and not worth mapping. For anybody who's interested the D route sign in question is visible in Google Street View here: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8ll=-32.085556,152.322092spn=0,359.92301z=14layer=ccbll=-32.085453,152.32208panoid=u93FikimFDFYopOTvwIqEgcbp=12,212.72,,0,12.53 -Brent - Original Message - From: John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 2:24 pm Subject: Re: [talk-au] I've been trying to fix the highway shields and came across this To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org I'm going to be adding Tourist Route Shields to the map shortly but in the process of looking for a graphic I came across this page on wikipedia: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Route_shields_of_Australia It lists shields for a number of things like Alt National Route, and on one of the other wiki pages it uses 'D' routes to mean Detour however these routes aren't in the same category as MABC. Does anyone think this is a good idea? Use network=D for D classified roads, if they exist. Use network=detour for NSW classified detour routes Use network=alt_NR for Alternate NR routes ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-de] ÖPNV-Schema: aktueller Status / wei tere Schritte?
Hallo zusammen! Da ich in den letzten Tagen aus purem Eigennutz ;) das U-Bahn-Netz von Barcelona erfasst habe, frage ich mich jetzt, ob ich die Vorschläge von Oxoma (also das neue ÖPNV-Schema von http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Oxomoa/ÖPNV-Schema) schon verwenden will. Wie ist denn hier so der aktuelle Status? Ist geplant, daraus bald mal ein offizielles Proposal zu machen und darüber abzustimmen? Wenn nein, warum nicht? Ich denke, es besteht doch jetzt schon eine gewisse Erfahrung damit - und als Ergänzung für das bisherige Tagging erlaubt es schonmal die schöne Erfassung von z.B. stop_areas. Gibt es außer der öpnvkarte.de schon irgendwelche Applikationen, die das unterstützen? -- Gernot ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Routen-Relationen für Bahn-Kursbuchst recken
Hallo nochmal! Als Pendler spiele ich mit dem Gedanken, mal meine Kursbuchstrecke (Landshut-München) mit entsprechenden Routen-Relationen zu erfassen. Jetzt frage ich mich nur, wie man das sinnvoll macht. Der Gleiskörper zwischen Landshut und München ist schon sehr gut erfasst - z.B. sind getrennte Gleise für beide Richtungen in OSM, die Bahnhöfe haben alle Bahnsteige und Gleise, etc. Das ist zwar schön, stellt mich aber bei der Relation vor größere Probleme. Ich frage mich, welche Gleisstücke ich in die Relation aufnehmen will. Zwei Unterprobleme: die offene Strecke: wenn ich das neue ÖPNV-Schema verwende, kann ich beide Fahrtrichtungen getrennt erfassen, damit macht es auch Sinn, beide Richtungs-Gleise einzupflegen. Aber für eine normale route-Relation - macht es da auch Sinn? Und vor allem: was ist mit den Bahnhöfen? Bei den kleinen ist es noch relativ einfach, weil die Züge von/nach München meist auf denselben Gleisen halten - aber in München sind es je nach Verbindung x verschiedene Gleise. Welches soll ich nun in die Relation packen? Alle? Das schaut dann gerendert sicher furchtbar aus... -- Gernot ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de