Re: [Talk-GB] Opening hours from opening-times.co.uk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andy Allan wrote: On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: I am sitting alongside Julian Burgess (CCd, also @aubergene ) of http://opening-times.co.uk/ which lists opening times for all sorts of shops and public service outlets in the UK. We have just tagged a local Supermarket (Tesco, Aston Lane, Birmingham) with: openingtimescouk: http://opening-times.co.uk/tesco-superstore-aston-lane Is this something folks would like to see more of? Or make use of? If you want to add the opening times to OSM, that would be great! But if it's only a link to Yet Another Business Aggregator Website, I'm not so sure. I had a look at the website in question, but it doesn't seem to have any details on whether or not your opening hours information is available under an open license for us to incorporate directly? Doesn't the information change too much to be put into OSM directly? Especially as opening times tries to take account of special opening hours for Christmas and Bank holidays etc.? It is an open site, but I kind of think that the data should go the other way around, so they should keep the OSM IDs as part of the information about each location, and provide a web service to search by OSM id. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkua2pgACgkQz+aYVHdncI234QCdH2Xk0TyYrHoKbvQ5Yxdm/GPd qGQAnid/pjgRLbNVHJjDjustH3AMlXyl =rNb7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Still interest in an Android POI collector?
2010/2/23 Tomáš Tichý t.ti...@post.cz: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 15:57, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: BTC Mapper is a basic POI collector for both Android and BB, although the BB app is getting more love at present due to commercial pressures. I have tried BTC mapper and it is almost unusable (doesn´t work without GPS signal, can´t place POI to another place than my location, weird and uneditable presets). Some nice and usable POI / Openstreetbugs collector for Android would be appreciated. The version I have installed (from the android market) generates kml file tracks that are not valid. It should look like: coordinates -1.3629001379013062, 51.83917701244354, 148.0 -1.3629001379013062, 51.83907508850098, 138.0 -1.3630181550979614, 51.83890342712402, 139.0 -1.3630342483520508, 51.83881223201752, 144.0 . . . But BTC mapper produces: coordinates 51.83917701244354, -1.3629001379013062, 148.0, 51.83907508850098, -1.3629001379013062, 138.0, 51.83890342712402, -1.3630181550979614, 139.0, 51.83881223201752, -1.3630342483520508, 144.0, . . . Note that the lat and lon are the wrong way round, and there is a comma after the elevation (there shouldn't be). I managed to mangle my track to the right format, convert to GPX using GPSbabel, and load it into JOSM to add my work, but the resulting file still won't upload to OSM because it has no timestamps. It's also missing HDOP, which would be useful. Robert (Jamie) Munro ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Still interest in an Android POI collector?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 grahamjones...@googlemail.com wrote: . POI, track, and photo collection would be useful additional features, along with something to highlight in the directions where there is a FIXME or OSMbug entry nearby on the map. I think that integrating these features into Navit (perhaps as plugins), rather than having a separate app would be of much greater benefit. Robert (Jamie) Munro Robert, I am not sure that adding more features to another application is the best way to do it - To be useful something like POI and photo collection needs to be really simple, without having to go through a lot of menus to get there. Therefore I think it would be best to have one application that does navigation, and another one for collecting mapping information or tweaking the map on the go. So I am navigating somewhere, and I notice a missing POI. I have to exit the app, load another app, wait for the map to download, navigate different menus to the ones I am used to, then I can make a note of the problem. I then have to exit that app, load my navigation app and hope that it has remembered where I was going. Alternatively: I press the camera button on the phone and take a picture inisde my navigation app. This gets marked on the map, and saved for later, and I am presented with a menu on the screen asking me to say why I have taken a photo, either by selecting a preset, by leaving a text note or by leaving a voice note. Once I've pressed that, I'm straight back into navigation. I should be able to do this with 2 clicks, e.g. when stopped at traffic lights, or pulled over for just a moment. Another situation: Perhaps I see a road not on the map (preferably that looks like it might go in roughly the direction of my destination). I turn into this road. The navigation app notices I have gone off road, records a trace, and gives me a direction and distance arrow to my destination. When I reach a road that is back on the map, the app recalculates my route from that point, and stops the trace. No clicks at all needed, so I can improve the map without stopping. It can upload the trace to OSM, and when I get home I can convert it into a street using JOSM in no time. Of course, at any point during the above, I could have pressed the camera button to record a photo with position and add a note, e.g. to record a junction or to record the road name with a voice note. Another advantage: People aren't going to install a POI collecting app unless they are heavily into OSM. They will probably install a sat-nav app people have recommended if they ever want to go anywhere. They might drive down roads not on the map either by mistake, by curiosity, or because they know where they are going even if the map doesn't. Once they learn they can fix the map, they may well become a keen mapper. Will having apps mean that I need to copies of the map on my phone? That seems like a waste of space. So we have to ensure that they can both read the same data file. Don't say that it will download over the net, because probably most of the unmapped countryside has no 3G coverage. A lot has no coverage at all. So that will be painful if it works at all. Particularly if 2 apps are downloading data at the same time. No, it needs to be one app. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuVGUwACgkQz+aYVHdncI3+jwCfZxf6rxRj7uDP9ZY3P4ZDgWrp 484Anin6AaUHNaFJMblfMoIZw5Oq4iDj =jNaA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Still interest in an Android POI collector?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Liz wrote: On Wed, 24 Feb 2010, Patrick Weber wrote: I tried Navit on Android yesterday, at least on my phone (HTC Magic) it was unusable, the map didnt update properly or follow my movements, and crashed a few times. I also could not find out how to actually set a route I've just been playing with Navit the last couple of days, and it's the only Android OSM app I've seen so far that I would recommend to other people. The user interface needs some work, but once I got it to work on my G1, it is worth it. On the Freerunner I run Navit, but I changed the xml file to use the menu style gtk. Using the internal display every time you touch the screen because the backlight has gone off something happens on the program so strange things happen when you least want them to. I wake the screen using the menu key, but you're right, it needs to disable the screen sleeping. It can choose and navigate a route of about 200km but past that distance I have troubles even with a netbook processor. It probably needs to use A-star rather than a simple Dijkstra's algorithm. I think that Navit is the right approach to mapping - it doesn't use map tiles, it renders vectors on demand. It does routing etc. and doesn't need an internet connection. There's a few quick improvements that could be made: * Menu layout needs work - I need a button that says Navigate to or Go to on the first page, that leads to a search. I can't find an option to delete bookmarks, etc. Also, the menus need to be more android native in feel, rather than strange custom menus. * Direction instructions need a bit of tweaking e.g. it says: Turn left into a four thousand one hundred and forty four where it should say: Turn left into the A four one four four * Searching needs work (it relies on a strict hierarchy defined by is_in tags doesn't do postcodes) - it could have an option to fall back to the internet nominatim for searching as this is only a tiny amount of bandwidth would be a quick win. * Speed sensitive auto-zoom would be nice * The 3d view has a wierd perspective that doesn't really work - it probably needs to be landscape-only, and tilted much further. POI, track, and photo collection would be useful additional features, along with something to highlight in the directions where there is a FIXME or OSMbug entry nearby on the map. I think that integrating these features into Navit (perhaps as plugins), rather than having a separate app would be of much greater benefit. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuRATMACgkQz+aYVHdncI3fbwCdGw445froUSzneYQFK/nxm2RZ lOgAoOSkSYPk0zXRBV0DkT5gaPihCMq7 =yFr+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] Pronouncing numbers of UK roads
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I've just opened a bug in navit about the pronunciation of UK road numbers when giving directions. These are the rules I have worked out. Can anyone think of cases where the results of these rules sound wrong? * Always use a long A pronounciation - i.e. rhymes with Hay, not like in cat. * Zeros are usually pronounced Oh (although that is possibly a matter of preference) * If the number is less than 100, say it in full - e.g. * A42 = A forty two * M25 = Em twenty five * Otherwise say it digit by digit * A121 = A one two one * A4144 = A four one four four * A4074 = A four oh seven four * but if it ends in zeros, merge those into the last number, so * A420 = A four twenty * A400 = A four hundred * B4000 = Bee four thousand Prefix the number with the. E.g. Turn left onto the A four twenty, not just Turn left onto A four twenty. Some people do pronounce some road names different to the above rules - I've heard the A4074 called A forty seventy four, for example - but the above rules are probably a good starting point. I'm not sure how A4004 and A4010 are normally pronounced: A four oh oh four? (generated by above, doesn't sound quite right) A four double oh four? A four thousand and 4? (what I would say) A four oh ten? (generated by above, doesn't sound quite right) A four oh one oh? A forty ten? (what I would say) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkuRElUACgkQz+aYVHdncI3vrQCg1g0DJsRXlXckPXGbAdNPrBGB L+0AnA/6BcE40bXDoy2xYHgKGMrCExsL =xS6r -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] [OT] No 10 postcodes petition
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The PM has responded to the petition to make free-the-postcode like data available: http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page2 Unfortunately, they have confused PAF (the postcode address file, with every valid address in the country) with Postzon (a list of postcodes with coordinates to the nearest 100m). PAF: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump2?mediaId=400085catId=400084 Postzon: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content3?mediaId=55900704catId=400088 They also completely failed to mention that the OS has some control of this data, and that it is due to be released by them to a greater or lesser degree in due course. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktZvoEACgkQz+aYVHdncI0/jQCg+VilHfte/NFL7jluaIBOX/WA bF0An0eDNsPCHJ1vsJWO8VX6uKALMQAw =HhWp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Error (was Re: NaPTAN import status - update and question)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Russ Phillips wrote: On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote: Thinking about it, one could get OSM to produce a list of things to check for any particular trip - First one would produce a GPX for the trip and then a 'job-creator' would identify streets without names, villages without letter boxes, ways with 'FIXME' tags and also of course unchecked bus stops and produce an itinerary and map to things to do on the way. A feature I suggested for routing apps was a mode that you could use if you had to get from A to B but not in a hurry. It would treat places that had errors as less costly in terms of routing, so that routes would be biased towards them. It's usually quite easy for a routing algorithm detect no name streets and FIXMEs and cost them lower. Then have the UI signal you when you reach an error and let you leave a voice note for yourself to be able to correct the error later. It should also let you leave voice notes, and start recording a track, when your GPS lock is good (low HDOP) but you are not close enough to a way that it knows about. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksOfdEACgkQz+aYVHdncI0PNwCg4kwtwtLhYZqqvGdim3jh73dr 5hcAoMcPr0Lt4QnWJ3gXdPTvbKc4f86G =vLJ8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Software Freedom Day
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ulf Lamping wrote: Please also note, that it's really easy to switch from OSM to Google maps (and back) if you're using openlayers. But you have to rewrite your javascript code (completely?) if you want to go from the Google API to OSM. In fact, you can show OSM tiles in Google JS, for example on this site: http://oxford.openguides.org/wiki/?St._Aldate%27s_Church There's even a bookmarklet (OSMify) you can run to add Mapnik, OSMA and Cycle layers to most 3rd party Google maps sites: http://blog.johnmckerrell.com/2007/12/31/new-version-of-osmify-bookmarklet/ I've just tested it on the Software Freedom Day site, and it works well. The only site it doesn't work on is Google's own main maps site. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqi++AACgkQz+aYVHdncI1jcACfV3ba33Jx9K0tiaix3Nc8jQko 4ssAn1XTfWcskaagiNoT6Cm+nnYfFMdu =6EPC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] State of the NameFinder
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Brian Quinion wrote: As promised, you can try a uk test system here: http://katie.openstreetmap.org/~twain/ And a couple of sample queries: http://katie.openstreetmap.org/~twain/?q=london http://katie.openstreetmap.org/~twain/?q=91+upper+ground%2C+london http://katie.openstreetmap.org/~twain/?q=pub+near+upper+ground%2C+london If you want to know how the address was created click the 'details' link at the end of the search result. Some of the values are my debug info but it will also provide links to the osm node/way/relation. Please be aware that this extract is about 4 weeks old and there have been quite a bit of improvements to the UK county data since then. Please email me bug reports off list, but be aware that I'm going to be away from my email for a lot of the weekend and that there are still known issues - so don't be that surprised if you break it. Preliminary results of the British Museum Test: http://povesham.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/the-british-museum-test-for-public-mapping-websites/ (also on wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/British_Museum_Test) * Tate Modern - Correct, but listed 2 nearly identical results for Attraction and Arts centre. * British Museum - First result is disused station that's not even visible on the standard map. Second result correct. * National Gallery - No results found * Natural History Museum - First result is Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire. 2nd, 3rd and 4th results correct. Natural History Museum, London produced just the 3 correct results. * British Airways London Eye - No results found * London Eye - First result good. Second result nearby bus stop. Third result common. Not sure what the common means, but otherwise good * Science Museum - Correct, but listed 2 nearly identical results for Museum and Public Building * The Victoria Albert Museum - Correct, but listed 2 nearly identical results for Museum;attraction and Public Building * VA Museum - Identical results to above (good) * The Tower of London - Correct, but listed 3 nearly identical results for Castle, Attraction and Public Building * St Paul’s Cathedral - 4 results. First one Attraction, which is acceptable. Second one bus stop, Fourth one Place of Worship. 3rd one = Place of Worship in Dundee. * National Portrait Gallery - No results found So overall, I'd say it's very good, but it could use some sort clumping of multiple results of the same thing and needs improvements in prioritising results - Museums are more important than bus stops and disused stations. Also it needs typo correction. Another hint for priorities would be if something is in the current map, it should possibly score a bit higher than something further away (although anything in the current map area should score the same - you don't want to put a positive bias on The Midlands when searching while viewing the whole UK). This would have solved the Natural History Museum, Hemel Hempsted problem. Postcode searching is weird. If I search for NW1 3AN, it seems to give me the result for NW1 3AR, which isn't the same place. If it doesn't know the correct postcode, it should fall back to the area - NW1 3, for which is a better result because it's clear that it's not accurate and it's pointing to the whole area. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEUEARECAAYFAkqWf5kACgkQz+aYVHdncI3BWACg8SalbIGx2j8eCFSo4+Skeuoq F/kAmP+u2eS7SKSEzqBMCuk4v10Btng= =h8fE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Hill wrote: * Increasingly there are roundabouts with roads running through the middle: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.936219lon=-1.24996zoom=18layers=B000FTF The road through the middle is generally one-way though, and usually just one road. This one has 2 dual carriageways running through it perpendicular to each other, and a third dual carriageway that ends at the roundabout: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.497691lon=-0.45292zoom=18layers=B000FTF Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpoY7MACgkQz+aYVHdncI1/6gCdHxXtffw7hx0oczaCJSH1AV9N PV4AoKuJbCL+f89fAxjeUyzWbnw//Pzg =SHzZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Telephone Debate
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gervase Markham wrote: On 14/03/09 20:32, Ulf Möller wrote: OSFM is trying to get ODbL 1.0 in place as soon as possible and fix problems in version 1.1 later on. The difficulty with doing that is that people who are approached about relicensing their data might say no, because the licence is broken in ways X, Y and Z which were highlighted by the discussion process. Even if the reply is we hope to fix those in 1.1, they might say well, come back then, then. So what happens then? Do we remove their data or don't we? It depends on how the license is broken. If it doesn't allow people to do things that we think they should be able to, then that's no worse that the situation now. If it allows people to steal the data in some sense, then yes, people would say no. Bear in mind that the new licence won't take away any rights we have under CC-BY-SA. The data will (AFAIK) continue as dual licensed in future. The worst case scenario is that people get to use the data for more purposes than we intend to allow. These people will stop being able to update their database when version 1.1 of the license comes out. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkm+mKoACgkQz+aYVHdncI2aEgCgqDNEe9Ll3Ug+AamU98EXoN1q Lg8AnRHOU4JYHhBITvtfyK2HbExyA1NW =+8so -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multilingual map
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 D Tucny wrote: Hi folks, I've been thinking about how it would be good to have the map available in multiple languages... I think the easiest way to do this with what we have is using a captionless base layer and transparent caption layers for each of the languages... So... I put this thinking into practice and put together a proof of concept at http://osm.newportcoastsoftware.com There is a single base, captionless layer and 40 transparent caption layers, all available only to zoom 8. That's great, but would it be possible for the individual language layers to fall back to local where a name is not given in a particular language? How much storage do the caption layers take compared to the data? Thanks, Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkm1KAgACgkQz+aYVHdncI1ttwCaAnBqRNFCZDKDVUyD1a2qc+hA qz0AoLUxP/DKlwZ6AgwDh5lViEl807z7 =3R6E -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Tom Hughes wrote: I'm not sure delegating to all sort of different servers is the best way to implement such a thing for lots of reasons. We just need the master stylesheet to be able to take location into account when rendering. That's how Google does it of course and it is, issues of scale aside, the easy choice. (And yes their motorway style changes, slightly, at many borders e.g. between Germany and France or Austria; maybe that's to denote toll motorways though and not a specifc national style.) Aside from anything else if you did it by delegation the style could only change on the edge of a tile. No; if done cleverly, national servers could produce half transparent tiles at the borders. I know it would be quite a feat to set up something like this, and every time you view a map of Europe then half the tiles would be missing because the Czech or Austrian or Hungarian or German server had a hiccup at that moment and so on. But it would be a really cool thing to have and help us get away from ugly centralism. We work and map and meet regionally; why not champion an architecture that actually takes this into account. Yuk! No! Don't do this! Why produce half-transparent tiles when you could just carry on producing tiles of the neighbouring countries (or even the whole world) in your national style. As a British person who travels to Paraguay, I want to see a map of Paraguay in UK styles (and probably English captions where available). The Mapnik layer currently gives me that. There's no need to take that away when we implement a Paraguay style map. What we need is entire global renderings in different styles. I hate it when I go on holiday and I can't understand the colours of the maps. A choice of UK Style, German Style, USA Style rendering for the whole world would be nice, particularly if it defaulted to whichever country you were in by IP address geolocation. I'm sure it will be easier to impliment than a single map with inconsistent syle, and I'm fairly confident that the resources required are not huge - particulary as introducing new layer servers reduces the load on the existing single tile server. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmwACAACgkQz+aYVHdncI2Y5ACgznNqvGZ6aBCOae0xXZQ+HC+I 0TUAoKFjtw9pwLfrSI7GKpo7t1VcoUtr =UkrY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Front page design and SEO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fairhurst wrote: Andy Allan wrote: Quite. Can someone please come up with names for the two main styles that aren't just the technology that creates them? Mapnik - Standard (or maybe 'Classic') I think that the Mapnik layer should be called UK Style. Green trunk roads, Blue motorways etc. are all standard features of British maps, and not in use as much elsewhere. We should dedicate some resources to making a few other Mapnik-generated layers for US, German and other popular countries styles. We've already got Cycle Map, Piste Map etc. Osmarender - Community Osmarender's lowzoom, which shows all the roads in the db scaled down and down until they are just shades of colour on the map does look beautiful. But in general, and I hate to say this, it is just an uglier map than Mapnik and I don't think it needs to be maintained. The resources it uses for the central tile server and the TRAPI, ROMA and XAPI servers could probably generate and maintain a custom mapnik layer each - possibly more than one. That's not to say it isn't worth having some ROMA and/or XAPI servers around for Sat-Nav and GIS applications to use. It would be nice to have a lowzoom map to look at that is just Mapnik z12 without captions repeatedly stitched and scaled, though - I just love the Osmarender lowzoom layers (when/where they work). Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmvKewACgkQz+aYVHdncI0KAwCg71fB04HJbuT5hNi4aV/H0IjD LksAn1MRlqEYyUcH4NATC+aEHrq1hkrZ =cepp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Adding architect names to buildings
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frankie Roberto wrote: Hi all, I've started adding architects names to buildings in Manchester (based on a combination of local history sources and Wikipedia), and so thought I'd better document the tag I'm using in case others want to do the same: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:architect Nice idea. The only problem I could think of was whether the key should be singular or plural. I got the feeling that the singular would match existing tags better. Agreed. Looking through Tagwatch I noticed that both artist=* and artist_name=* have been used (presumably for public sculptures and art installation), and I did wonder whether architect_name=* would be better. It seems that artist_name=* matches old_name=* better, but on the other hand it's not particularly ambiguous having artist=* or architect=*. Why should it match old_name? Your not describing a name of the object, you are referencing the designer of the object. Unless you want architect_name, architect_address, architect_date_of_birth, architect_..., it seems pointless. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmcBJYACgkQz+aYVHdncI2FnQCgqKWterO8hL510GJqfpi1jU6M YowAmgJhGW27A5NkIF5xYqusSavWuwLZ =ab3d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] English administrative divisions cleanup/fixup
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Feargal Hogan wrote: Hi First post to the list. I've been looking to get access to a set of polygons for the main English administrative divisions. I'm not that concerned with the celtic regions for the time being. This data IS available via ONS/OS but with licencing restrictions. Better to use/create a free-to-use set, I thought. What do you mean Administrative divisions? The UK situation is really complicated. For example, if you look at this page: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2051.html The UK's entry is longer than any of the others. On the other hand, England is officially divided into 9 regions for some purposes, each of which is a collection of local authorities: * East * East Midlands * London * North East * North West * South East * South West * West Midlands * Yorkshire and the Humber Each has something around 5-10 million population. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are often added to the list directly as they are not big enough to be subdivided on that scale. Working on the basis that I needed to create it myself, I took the list of schools at http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/call/data.html#schools and matched it against the NPE postcode data. It only managed to geocode about 5% of the schools, but it was enough for my next proof-of-concept step. Using the data I was able to create voronoi cells for each Local Education Authority (well each one that contained at least one postcode in the NPE dataset). You could try searching for the schools addresses directly in namefinder. Namefinder's postcode search actually does this if there are no results in NPE - it will search google for the postcode and when it finds a result that looks like an address, it will search for that address. You may be able to locate a lot more than 5% of schools that way. Ideally, schools shuold be marked on the map. It would be interesting to produce a list of the schools that are already in OSM and compare that to your list. It would give us a list of places where the mapping is unfinished. Also it might be nice to add operator=[local authority] (or similar) tags to all the schools. Is there a standard way to combine known boundaries with voronoi analysis? I guess you could reverse the boundaries into points 10m either side of them that make a voronoi diagram reproducing the original boundary, then add those points to the schools (and any other points) before regenerating. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmauDgACgkQz+aYVHdncI1ZoACeKxy/ljAKF7D1bQAtDpY3+MFt sDsAoMbcE+MnnIJwG6BqDGA2ge03FyfL =EsO5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] NZ LINZ data import and attribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: Joe Richards wrote: It appears to be hanging on a minor technicality, ie attribution of the datasource. Since this is potentially a huge advance for New Zealand mapping, what is exactly the sticking point, ie do LINZ really require a notification on the map while being browsed? Or is just having the attribution on a message somewhere (e.g. a wiki page, or even a link to that page as an attribute on each node/way etc)? The distinction is fairly important here, since attributions are common elsewhere too. For example there is a Berkley University attribution tucked away in all copies of Windows to acknowledg the use of the TCP/IP stack. The big problem with all these data sets that require attribution is not adding the attribution (though that may be an issue if it needs to be recorded on each object we derive from it) but making sure that nobody deletes that attribution in the future. Exactly. If you look at the first couple of zoom levels, especially on Osmarender, they are derived from every data source we have. If we have to credit them all, there may end up no space on the screen for the map. Also, what about mapping software for blind people, like loadstone http://www.loadstone-gps.com/. How often should it read out the attribution? Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmJYiQACgkQz+aYVHdncI22zgCguzuRcUvGkMCZPLXP2etHRGbF cdgAoKJJIEk1jeGEzlc6dhBJTAWj5d3H =Am6g -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] name tags on place=country and how they're rendered on lowzoom
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ビカス ヤダワ (vikas yadav) wrote: where is a local language being set for a country or a region? By the country or regions government, usually. I think there is a misunderstanding going on here. If I speak English, I want and English map of the world. If I speak French, I want a French map of the world. In neither case do I want a map that has England in English and France in French. IMHO, the correct procedure for drawing a map is to: 1. Decide what language your map is in. 2. Look for name:[language]= tags and draw them 3. Look for name= tags where the one for your language doesn't exist. The problem is that the default maps generated by the project (mapnik and osmarender) both get this wrong. They omit step one, and try to pretend that the map can be not in any particular language. AFAIK, there is no English language rendering of OSM. There is a Welsh one, for example here: http://sucs.org/~rollercow/cyosm/ and probably other languages around the place. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkl0ioMACgkQz+aYVHdncI1HhgCdFZ6LnUDS7/DQc7zpz2M2ZNVv 4kgAoOjYB/J4Lbvom4tBoTNNbouBDANf =jQ7s -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] can your yournavigation support inter-island routing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Nic Roets wrote: Yes. http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=52.96331flon=4.76825tlat=53.0023tlon=4.78954v=motorcarfast=1layer=mapnik It's the slowest form of transport : routing bicycle=3 foot=3 goods=3 hgv=3 motorcycle=3 motorcar=3 psv=3/ It won't take the Channel Tunnel, or any UK - Mainland Europe ferries yet: http://www.yournavigation.org/?flat=50.938668flon=1.903311tlat=51.176453tlon=0.82v=motorcarfast=1layer=mapnik Is this because the database is partitioned or something? Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk5DXQACgkQz+aYVHdncI3/MgCgpbCpcHlG8PBBDUc/Hym7b8L1 B4IAoKK1AGnBJIjLBHMLZ7oeyajfVNUQ =gSrn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Name tag for amenity=bank and amenity=atm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Shaun McDonald wrote: I've always used name=, rather than operator= for banks. They are different things. The operator is the name of the company that runs the bank. The name is the name of the building or branch name. The renderers have the option to use the operator logos to render the banks. I don't think they should render the names, except for on the very highest zoom levels, or if it's a particularly large building. It's more obvious / important for other kinds of amenities than for banks, but we should be consistent. If your stuck, add both tags with the same value. But don't leave operator out. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk5K5MACgkQz+aYVHdncI0ROQCfQx2iPS9lccQhwaqOcqJPDwuR CiIAoIyHE4KQjKZPE6uYTRuDbd0a/Q2Q =sDGI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] building and other amenities author (architect=[name])
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 wiseLYNX wrote: hi, I was wondering if there is already a method to mark the (mainly architect) who designed a specific map feature. I did a quick search, but couldn't find what I was searching for. the tag would be useful for places rich in historical monuments. for example, in Torino, Itali, I'd mark the Mole Antonelliana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_Antonelliana) something like: building=yes name=Mole Antonelliana architect=Alessandro Antonelli is there already such a tag and I missed it, or do you think it's worth a proposal on the wiki? Not only historical monuments, also modern buildings. Was it Richard Rogers or Norman Foster who designed the millennium bridge? I think it's a great idea, and have seen it before, so I'd say start a proposal on the wiki. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkS6/EACgkQz+aYVHdncI0zsACgrdAUZNrODziR43OmP3DqbMaz cokAoLJYr0LIdVGzIuBmWwJnAYBAGBmF =OvA7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] data plucked from who-knows-where?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fairhurst wrote: 80n wrote: Since street names are one of the harder bits of information to collect, what this user has done here looks like a very worthwhile contribution to the project. Perhaps we should even be encouraging users without GPS units to create this kind of topological map. It looks reasonably usable and is very consistent with the wiki philosophy of incremental improvement. There are a lot more people without GPS units than there are with, and if they can get pleasure from recording street names like this, then the GPS mappers job is made much easier. I like having 80n around here to speak wisely and calm down the rest of us hotheads. :) But we might need another tool to enable them to contribute this way - I'm thinking OpenStreetBugs, Google Map Maker, and the painty thing Oliver did the other year. Our current editors aren't really set up for sketching, and correcting the Cheadle mapping is going to take some poor soul(s) a lot of work. Which begs a wider question... what, as a community, do we want our editors to be? Do you mean editors the software, or editors as in users? I guess we need to tag all the nodes in Cheadle with something source:position=estimated or something. The tricky part in fixing them is moving them into the right places without crossing the roads over each other or anything and getting yourself very confused. Ideally we need editing software that lets you drag control points in the area, and morphs all the points tagged as estimated towards their real locations. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkPSA4ACgkQz+aYVHdncI22xACcD5hNlWq8EJ1hScHElfpgvenF nVsAoJ5FmcRFzsNLuiWUEfyGehiElk/D =cDfH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Requiring free of charge for db redistribution on Internet
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rob Myers wrote: On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it an intended side effect of the license to discourage internet-based distribution of derivative dbs? I wouldn't have thought so. :-) My suggestion would be that recovering reasonable production cost should also be extended to reasonable distribution cost for internet distribution too. My idea would be that the marginal cost (i.e. the bandwidth for the given download) is recoverable, but not e.g. man hours in setting up the download server. Any thoughts? How much would it cost for bandwidth to serve a single copy of the current OSM DB? Andy answered that in the message you are replying to, but you edited his answer out. If we take the current case - a planet download is 4.5Gb and (for the sake of an example) Amazon S3 download costs start at USD0.17 per gigabyte, it would cost me currently *0.76 dollars per download*. That could be a significant cost if you get lots of downloads. Only about 4/day would cost over $100 per month. Also, the current data is probably less than 10% of the data we aim to collect, and it is likely people will combining the data with other data, e.g. SRTM, which could be much larger. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkFv0AACgkQz+aYVHdncI1lnwCgnE656BpPWqX+Rd7s2EPx+D8h DtwAoMLVBaF1316DEQ5a/t6r708fmZxV =7JXE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, We have no mechanism to divide good from bad ideas. If you start putting your ideas about what you think is good and should be used on Map Features, then I will start putting mine on there as well, and everyone else. That's why we don't want to go down this road. (And before anyone asks, a vote in which 0.01% of mappers participate does not elevate one idea about what is good above hundreds of others.) I agree with you here, but voting seems to be the current practice. It may seem so, but in fact voting is just a pastime of a tiny minority of OSMers; the vast majority don't care for either the process or the results. You allege that, but what evidence do you have to back it up? I for one don't vote very much, but do care about due process and the results. I will follow the tagging advice that has been voted for, because I know that several people have thought about the issues and more of them thought one option was better than the other. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj/MWUACgkQz+aYVHdncI0vTACgpMHHZ//LnFTT9Fcu4sONJ7js ukgAn1dECxM5SJvx8vgInlc4LazqtOhc =Nop4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, vegard wrote: Is it really so important for the map to look the same in Chile and in China? Well. You have to remember that rendering is not all, Ok, then: Is it really so important for routing software to work identically in Chile and in China? 100% abosolutely. Certainly. Undoubtedly. How can you even ask such an obvious question? You can't really be suggesting writing different routing software for every part of the world can you? You may as well have entirely separate OSMs. In fact that would make it much easier, because you'd know where to use engine A and where to use engine B. It's just a bit silly to encourage keeping of highway=gate when we've just voted on barrier=gate. Who's we? *I* have not voted. You could have. The fact that you chose not to implies that you don't mind either way. That's normally how democratic systems work. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj/MVMACgkQz+aYVHdncI1FkgCdHabNY7VsDRSSYE6VgpiHVz8v LosAoISBThcto3QS6+QVNk3h+YTVhoDf =ySac -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Video with all OSM contributors
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matt Amos wrote: On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 7:15 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having seen the 11Mb video, I'd appreciate to have the 37Mb original. I'll play it in a conference in one month, and people should be able to at least try to read the names as they fly by. http://www.asklater.com/matt/wordpress/?p=133 Cool. Does anyone have any other high-quality videos I could download and show at UK Linux Expo? There's a few on YouTube, which I could rip with KeepVid.com, but it would be better to get higher quality originals directly. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj90+0ACgkQz+aYVHdncI1sCgCfRVx4dGJUgH8tV5MCVaYSaeOx 9FAAoJWRlW5rHrJnLRRXN0a3AMat40k2 =9HQW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] What happend to the tube line overlay map?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 About 18 months ago, Artem demonstrated a map of London with coloured tube lines in an overlay: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2007-May/014185.html The map mentioned in the post doesn't seem to be working any more: http://media.mapnik.org/osm-tube.html Is there any chance we could put something similar on the main map? One problem I recall from the time was that OpenLayers didn't easily let you say that an overlay should only be selectable when you are in a certain area of the world. Obviously if we start adding overlays like this in different parts of the world, and they were all visible on the main map, the overlay selector would get ridiculously long. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj8pSYACgkQz+aYVHdncI12FQCfRWMtPU7RILGVhFcD+lNvbB9X uAgAoPagEbdruYbuxSO/acnquG9zhgnp =E4s0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] URGENT: potential stand at Linux Expo Live
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 SteveC wrote: We have potential to run a stand at Linux Expo Live, next week, 23rd to 25th october at Olympia Anyone interested? Please co-ordinate here and then nominate someone to email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Has anyone e-mailed him yet? Is anyone volunteering to, or shall I? I've turned the participants section of the wiki page into a table so that people can indicate which days they are free more clearly. Please check I haven't made any mistakes transcribing it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_at_London_Linux_Expo_2008#Participants I think it would be good if we had more volunteers, especially on Saturday. You really need 2 people on a stand at events like this, and it would be good if there were more people than that so that people get a chance to have a look at other stands around the show. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj8oZYACgkQz+aYVHdncI0ITgCgnW5lGvcf/g6uOn2+ky2IRS+v 178AoN4m3vrV+Voamb58KW1Ra6J1SuMY =n+ZM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] URGENT: potential stand at Linux Expo Live
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 SteveC wrote: We have potential to run a stand at Linux Expo Live, next week, 23rd to 25th October at Olympia Anyone interested? Please co-ordinate here and then nominate someone to email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? I can help for one of the days. What about display materials? I know there was stuff printed for State of the Map - is any of that available? Will there be any internet connectivity at the event? Should we bring laptops to demo stuff? Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkj4fz4ACgkQz+aYVHdncI2JjQCgqaGdso5IITL85Yek/Y+t9PQs 5fcAoMesoeul6hmVODku9qFUCv7AL9oV =ACcc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Own maps with hill shading and routes using mapnik
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Hill wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2008, Keith Sharp wrote: I never got round to implementing anything because I discovered most of the bodies of water in Scotland had been mapped. I imagine the NPE maps cover most of the natural bodies of water. But these can vary quite a bit over 50 years... What's wrong with Landsat / Lakewalker? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/JOSM/Plugins/Lakewalker Andy Allan wrote: Intermediate-sized voids could be filled with image-cloning techniques to make a synthetic landscape. It's fake, but realistic looking. I think it would be better if fake data looked fake than looked realistic, but wasn't. That way people are more likely to spot that it needs fixing, and think about fixing it. Probably using something like a weighted average of the nearest data we do have, so that large voids turn into over-smooth areas would be as good a compromise as any. Secondly is hydrographic-model approach, which is what I believe the GGIAR guys do, and it's how voids are traditionally filled by the professionals (generally manually or at least labour-intensively, not like us upstarts who just think on a fully automated, global basis ;-) ). I thought that the point of open street map was that we have lots of labour available from volunteers. :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjPzU4ACgkQz+aYVHdncI00wwCgzsumaK+a6SEla8yNw3XVfzc4 v30AoNP8J2a2sIq46jjzNCegHT01knyb =/G7O -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Dobson wrote: Whereas Ordnance Survey maps were designed for the military, and churches were added simply as useful landmarks, No one here seems to have mentioned that the reason that on-line maps aren't as good as OS maps is that OS won't give out the information (at least not at a reasonable price), so TeleAtlas, NavTeq, AND etc. have to spend millions of man hours collecting it all again, and they don't have the need to add all the bits and pieces. Hopefully once we (i.e. OSM) collect the data, it won't need to be collected again. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki33goACgkQz+aYVHdncI0oAQCfcKlMdpCVb2vxy9Q3mg1/3gOu mtAAn2l+h6JR9ZyJN8neMI7O6fypfsR+ =xY5Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tech/API] Accessing tags set by a user for traces
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: Guilhem Bonnefille wrote: I'm working on Viking[1], a GPS desktop application with OSM related features. In order to assist user when uploading its traces to OSM, I wish to contact OSM, retrieve the previously used tags, and propose these tags to the user for the new trace. Is there such API actually? No, and I don't think one would be practical. To start with we don't currently normalise the tags at all so there is lots of duplication in the tag table - the only way to get a list of tags is to select distinct on the tag column. Scale wise we have about 250,000 tag records currently, and even if you remove the duplicates there are about 40,000 or so. I don't think people are going to want to download 40,000 tags even if we wanted to let them. Any chance of a report of the most popular tags, or would it lock up the database for ages just to query them? Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki4KgQACgkQz+aYVHdncI27QgCgyRJcAiCYhP3su6p0AKNDIQS+ FfoAnjRUEUenXO6LPhqPJc8119Z3WWyp =SwkM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishing history. (make press release?)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim Dobson wrote: Whereas Ordnance Survey maps were designed for the military, and churches were added simply as useful landmarks, No one here seems to have mentioned that the reason that on-line maps aren't as good as OS maps is that OS won't give out the information (at least not at a reasonable price), so TeleAtlas, NavTeq, AND etc. have to spend millions of man hours collecting it all again, and they don't have the need to add all the bits and pieces. Hopefully once we (i.e. OSM) collect the data, it won't need to be collected again. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki33goACgkQz+aYVHdncI0oAQCfcKlMdpCVb2vxy9Q3mg1/3gOu mtAAn2l+h6JR9ZyJN8neMI7O6fypfsR+ =xY5Q -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Garmin Serial Cable
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ciaran Mooney wrote: Hi, I have just purchased a geko 201 from Ebay, and opened the box to find that is does not come with a cable! My own fault, I assumed that it would come as standard. Silly me. Does anyone have an old garmin serial cable lying around that they would like to sell to me? They aren't very expensive new. I got mine through ebay from a company called GPSBITZ. They have their own web site here: http://gpsbitz.co.uk/shop/ This may be what you need: http://gpsbitz.co.uk/shop/index.php?act=viewProdproductId=2 or a USB version: http://gpsbitz.co.uk/shop/index.php?act=viewProdproductId=22 Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiv7mkACgkQz+aYVHdncI3q/wCfcYOET+1lDL75Z9nZbhrl/Xo+ 6g4AoPrYjfTi6ZrLcPAo0OZwQtxAt2Z1 =Jz8H -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] superways as relations ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Earl wrote: On 04/08/2008 11:14, vegard wrote: For naming of streets in cities, where properties change very often and you have to make many small ways, it sometimes gets annoying that the name is duplicated. I was wondering: How good/easy would it be to make a superway-relation to fix that? I.e. group several ways for labeling-intentions? I'm no expert on the inner workings in either of the renderers, but to me it sounds like a quick fix to a small annoyance. If someone that knows the renderers could either agree or disagree, I'd be happy anyways (well, obviously happier if they agree :) See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Collected_Ways AFAIK this isn't rendered at present, so for the time being the names would have to appear on the ways themselves as well if you want to see them, but in principle, a renderer could take note of this, and if it becomes a widespread idiom, no doubt they will. I think that is a chicken and egg scenario. I think the renderers (and namefinder) need to support it before people will start using it. Then very quickly we could move all names (and refs and highway types...) to relationships, and we would have a much cleaner data structure. Lots of wierd cases where part of a road has more than one ref, more than one name, or more than one of any other property go away - the relevant ways just become a member of more than one relationship. Personally, I believe that most tagging should be on relationships not ways. Only small physical things like layer, bridge and tunnel should be specified at a way level. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkipnI8ACgkQz+aYVHdncI0vyACaA2UTbxDbM1bTSlc8h4jXoEOn dHIAn3e9vZODyzFvpyUW2OuMWHgrvhPV =pA28 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Easy to use system for countryside surveying
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Nick Whitelegg wrote: Hello everyone, Have thought of an approach to make countryside OSM mapping using phones with inbuilt GPS (N95, etc) easy to the end user. A user could survey their walk using an N95 or similar, and then, using a very simple interface, select whether they are on a footpath, bridleway, unclassified road, track, etc every time the type of path or road they are on changes. So if they're on a road, then turn off down a footpath, they could select footpath. Then if the footpath merges into a bridleway, they could select bridleway. The result would be a GPS track with sections tagged with footpath, bridleway etc. A track simplification algorithm could be applied and ways generated from the GPS trace automiatically. This could then be uploaded to OSM for a more expert user (who could subscribe to an RSS feed to inform them of such uploads in their area) to refine the way, i.e. remove extraneous points and connect the auto-generated way to existing ways. Any thoughts? Start an existing OSM browsing app for N95 and other S60 mobiles, e.g. WhereAmI. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/WhereAmI Other possible apps: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Category:Java_midlet http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Category:Symbian Jamie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkinIzAACgkQz+aYVHdncI2grgCeLC1vSZAiTt6kz9nDbUMvcb1J dnkAoN9sOqlVbfEFngjSlIvJ6yWdUTxG =tKRT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why OpenStreetMap is not Wikipedia
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: | Hi, | | the similarities between OSM and Wikipedia are many, and easily | spotted. In fact, we owe a lot of our success to Wikipedia as a trail | blazer - if I tell someone we're like a Wikipedia for maps, that | saves me about 5 minutes explaining. | | However, there are also many conceptual differences between our | respective projects, and I would like to list a few of these that I've | been thinking about lately. | | I believe that some people are very quick to simply transfer lessons | learned from Wikipedia onto OSM, sometimes without properly taking into | account that while there are similarities, there are also lots of | differences. | | 1. One World | | 2. Commercially Valuable Product | | 3. Not an End Product I agree with this strongly, and believe it's worth mentioning that in all 3 aspects, MusicBrainz and possibly dmoz.org and similar projects are a lot closer to us than Wikipedia is. voxforge.org is also building something interesting which will have similar issues to us. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiPANAACgkQz+aYVHdncI1UvwCgmp79bz+Q3WJlYXfs2Vxi+KXz nmQAoKRFHkIL6I44DXdPu6TZrrZaETUC =nWmh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] House numbers... One more suggestion
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: | Hi, | | I really have a problem with this 'way' linking address nodes in the | Karlsruhe schema. We know that the relation has been created for that. | This 'way' is just here because some people do not know (or don't want | to know) how to use relations in the editors. | | Then use a relation instead. It's a free world ;-) No, it's definitely a way, because the houses are spread along the feature. If there was a node for every house, they should be related. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiN6mUACgkQz+aYVHdncI0EoACghK+VZC1Szdr4AHY0ZcHz1ivX QaAAnjrB7BjRoNpFigfvAacnc2+6WBIU =41Of -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Namefinder priorities
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Vollmert wrote: | On Jul 25, 2008, at 13:13, David Earl wrote: | I've thought about not tagging for the rendering (and name finder is a | kind of renderer), but there isn't a simple algorithmic solution. I always thought that Not tagging for rendering means Don't tag a wide river as a motorway to make it a large blue line on the map, or, as someone did recently Don't tag roads under construction as tunnels to make them dashed lines on the map IMHO, it doesn't mean Don't invent a tag that is useful for renderers. That's OK (although it's much better to use existing tags and/or try to ensure new tags are useful in other situations in future). Having said all that, in this case: | An alternative to search=yes that might be more generally useful is to | group parts of a street into a relation (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=Relation:street) | . That would be an object you could point to. It would also be | possible to mark spurs with role=spur if that would help. That is a much better idea - if a way is part of a relationship that supplies a name, use the relationship's name, not the way's. Personally, if I search for M25, I probably want to see this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.486lon=-0.087zoom=10 (the whole M25) Rather than 100 results that look like these: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.53392lon=0.27965zoom=17 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.34412lon=0.15669zoom=17 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.68061lon=0.00565zoom=16 which is the kind of thing you get now. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiJ7jgACgkQz+aYVHdncI2DLACg5iO43wdK1x5XgCjwnu6askrv p9EAoMyYJQJIhdMWHCETgzPU/gYi+IyS =6Y29 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM - MS Access
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: | Perhaps OSM -- CSV, then open it with Ms Excel as a spreadsheet then | import from Ms Access ? | | http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/export/osm2csv/ Why use Excel? Access has perfectly good CSV import built in. I don't know what osm2csv does. It may be better to adapt osm2pgsql or osmosis to talk to access instead of postgres or mysql. I would expect that if you wanted to import the whole planet into Access, it would struggle, which is why linking to tables stored in MySQL or Postgres, as others have suggested, would probably be a better idea. What are you hoping to achieve? Jamie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiAqfYACgkQz+aYVHdncI3XbQCeOTNDf0WF1sBpZ6yFmmku2r10 ouwAoMyRdNN3YpiZ+87xT/S+irJdqne2 =4/nB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] Oxford meet-up TONIGHT
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In case anyone There will be a general OSM meetup tonight at 7pm at the Jericho tavern, Oxford: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.76024lon=-1.26654zoom=17 We'll just be chatting about OSM and things in general. Maybe someone who was there can tell us what happened at State of the Map etc. If you don't know anyone, just look for MacBooks and GPS kit on the table to recognise us. :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh/XX0ACgkQz+aYVHdncI1dAACbBAsjm5ZOzdP1Mc/UwTaPZkac dhYAn3Km5aAsWpRuGmOYnPwE8k+kXgXV =Scnu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Oxford meetup
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Chadwick (email lists) wrote: | Richard Fairhurst wrote: | Andrew Chadwick (list subscriptions) wrote: | | | That would have been the Isis Boathouse, I think (Socks, you there?). | Sounds good. | | There's a bit of an OSM tradition of going to the Jericho Tavern, too. | | I like the sound of that place (now). | | As for time, does either the 5th or the 19th of July seem OK to people? | That's admittedly one week either side of the Dublin conference. Did this happen / is it likely to happen next week? I haven't heard anything about it since this e-mail from about 6 weeks ago. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkh8x7IACgkQz+aYVHdncI3p7ACgxhF/gFFM4FlEYbDqcOgWtNLu W5sAoJqnWMCq9sqIRVZOHte6dpSHZIgo =6W35 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] National borders in the British Islands
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dermot McNally wrote: | | But the clue here is that we're discussing the appropriate use of | boundary tagging, specifically a thing we call admin_level. I guess | none of us will disagree that Germany and the UK get to exercise a | higher level of administration than a country like England or Wales? I've always thought that England / Scotland / Wales / Northern Ireland forming the UK are pretty similar to the 50 states forming the USA - I think it would be reasonable to use the same markings on the default map to divide them. Legal purists may want different (or extra) tags in the database on the grounds that it's a completely different situation, but they could be rendered the same. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg+rxIACgkQz+aYVHdncI0KeQCg5TiY6CzGVhPCi8P+Vf9AmQam f4EAniZKu7dP40obhJ115MxVNOTxSWor =+A58 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] simplifying mapnik layout definition
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andreas Barth wrote: | * Dave Stubbs ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [080527 18:01]: | I don't think inferring the LineSymbolizer is a good idea. But if you | want to write a preprocessor to do the scale extraction I think that | might help a lot. | | ok - though it might happen I'll fiddle with it anyways for start. Let's | see ... | | | Personally I'd like to see an end to the XML syntax as it's hard to | read, but that's more work than it's worth right now (to me at least). | | Any better idea than xml in your mind? Going away from XML might be an | option, but none I'll probably start with (simply for the ease of | getting started). How about YAML? You could either write a script to convert YAML to XML, and use the XML as normal, or possibly you could write a python script that read the YAML and built the styles in mapnik directly as in: http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/GettingStarted PyYAML (http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML) is really simple to use. You feed it python lists and dictionaries containing each other, and it outputs YAML code, which is easy to read and easy to edit as long as you are careful with the whitespace (like python). Feed it YAML code and it returns lists and dictionaries. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg8nTUACgkQz+aYVHdncI29mgCgrD/zYFV0lX3PYTIDgNYXP01P AqsAn2NoU5OqWFbwpuQ7tG4rkzdFJhrw =FDPf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rights of way (was: Vote: highway=path)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 OJ W wrote: | Are there any use-cases for keeping the legal designations of | rights-of-way (aware that this is very UK-specific..) | | e.g. perhaps someone wants to use our maps to check that all the | rights of way in their area are properly accessible. Or someone using | an OSM map is challenged by a landowner and 'the map says I'm | permitted to herd sheep along this path' | | we seem to have lost 'public footpath' information already by using | the same 'footway' tag for anywhere that you appear to be able to walk | nevermind if there's a footpath sign at the end. proposals like this | might make 'real bridleways' disappear too, into a mix of places that | at first glance seem passable by horse-riders Perhaps we should tag them legal=footpath/bridleway/whatever | (p.s. before just proposing a new tag for legal status, consider that | lots of existing bridleways/footpaths/byways will have already been | tagged based on the RoW signs and we might want to keep that | information) Yes, but lots have been tagged not based on legal status, and we don't want to misrepresent those. It's better to have no data than wrong data on a way. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkguvKQACgkQz+aYVHdncI2oCgCfaAgpf3RL4tHolDoJcdF6iVYO kpwAn3vrWTFoVYReKNhi7AP6NTV2WEoh =arHg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Unknown road classifications
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andy Allan wrote: | On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Jeffrey Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Did we ever decide what to do when a road continues but | we didn't continue down the road? | | I can't speak for the other 33,000 contributors, but I (and a few | others I know of) simply use isolated nodes as a kind of ellipsis. | | *** * * * | | It's quick and fairly obvious to the next mapper, but not exactly bulletproof. It's cute, but not easily searchable, unless you want to tag the 3 nodes with something (which would be a really bad idea); it's had to render from (unless you want the ellipsis style rendering, and can cope with rendering all unconnected untagged nodes, and don't care that the size of ellipsis is dependant on zoom level). So we have a choice of: FIXME=incomplete fixme=Road continues name=[whatever] (tbc) towards=[name of place] complete=no Personally I think that FIXME should be a free text description, so I'm not in favour of the first 2 as something to base rendering on. I really don't like adding semantic stuff to the name tag - what if you don't collect the name, or the road doesn't have a name? What if there is a real road out there somewhere that actually has (tbc) in it's name? I really love the illustrated rendering of towards=, but I might not know where the road goes, just that it starts here. I'd vote for complete=no, and rendering it with an arrow on the unconnected end of the way. Sometimes, e.g. if you pass under a bridge, but haven't gone back to pass over it, you may have a way with arrows on both ends. That is fine. I'd allow and render towards=[name of place], but that get's confusing in the 2 ended passing under a bridge case. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIKFXmz+aYVHdncI0RAp7lAKD3f/elsoejxcg1XLMHIDZTQ9uGzgCfVNBS 9gqIcL6XBOInRCYGK5pBwKQ= =za0/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] street traits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeffrey Martin wrote: | Here is my list of traits. | [snip] | pavement Pavement is a dangerous word because in the UK it means sidewalk (footpath), and in the USA it means the road surface. My Mum failed her USA driving theory test because she didn't know this. :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIKHaaz+aYVHdncI0RAmOnAKCYFIgMwGpsg26hxpLCyzw93H6figCg21Rd nTqJfFcyehIb2eqUup7zLKQ= =13AL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] contours on main map
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Hill wrote: | On Thu, 8 May 2008, Robin Paulson wrote: | | alternatively, are there any world wide maps out there with contours | and osm data, that update regularly? | | The cycle map and the piste map both have contours for selected areas. | I'm generally doing monthly updates to the piste map data. As far as I | know, no one is serving contours for the whole planet - there are a couple | of reasons: | | 1. The SRTM3 dataset for the whole planet is pretty huge once it has been | processed into contour lines and put into PostGIS (probably about half a | terabyte). | 2. It isn't as simple as just rendering the same contour lines everywhere | - for example, the piste map uses much wider spaced contour lines than the | cycle map because the terrain is (generally) more mountainous. To make a | global contour map you would need to make the renderer vary the number of | contour lines used depending on how mountainous the terrain is. Why not draw contours in a light shade, then draw every 10th contour line in a darker shade. On a mountain, the light shades may just blend into the terrain of the mountain, leaving the dark lines picking out the ~ contours of mountain itself. If neccesary, you could have several levels of colour for different powers of 10. What would be nice is to separate the map into a background layer, with areas, and a transparent foreground layer with the roads, so that a contour layer can be slipped between the two at the openLayers level. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIJYuez+aYVHdncI0RAivMAKC95QGcxp7jbtwe+kMBZN+u/KNU3gCfVvKv Rf80HPgAHgwMVEpUMdMIhzY= =Fugf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Vandalism in Trumpington
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fairhurst wrote: | David Earl wrote: | | If nothing else, Richard, can the apparent bug with the mode | buttons be | fixed and the text make it clearer that live data is being changed | when | you press start? | | It's not a bug as such - it's currently intentional that it defaults | to edit the data - but I do agree that it would be better to have a | more descriptive welcome screen that requires it to be cleared before | you proceed, with (of course) a don't show this again checkbox. I | don't want to do it half-cocked, so it's not a quick fix, but | Potlatch development priorities are often decided by frequency of | requests on the mailing lists so you've just bumped that one up a bit. I suspect that the problem is that people think they can play a bit, then get a Do you wish to save your changes?, and be able to press no. ~ So I guess Potlatch may need a splash screen that makes it's all changes are saved straight away philosophy clearer to new users. Personally I think the play mode is very confusing. Now that we have http://main.dev.openstreetmap.org/, it's arguably not necessary. We should just direct new people to have a play there. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIFQM9z+aYVHdncI0RAttyAJsFd/SQsn12hHZGH4SEFZk5/mQ9PwCgzZH3 RW8Pq/Wi6kQ6kaAB1QlDFSw= =ECJY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Popper attribution on mobile map?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Pannevis wrote: | Hi! | My first mail to the legal list, I'm mainly active on the dutch OSM list. | We develop a mobile (and web) application, called Nulaz.: | http://www.nulaz.com. | It uses OSM data for the maps on mobile, as can be seen at | http://www.nulaz.com/images/homepage/screenshot.png | We currently say in the About menu that we do that, but it was suggested | that we place a text on the actual map. IMHO having to waste some of the screen for a permanent copyright would be enough reason for us to change our license. The Google maps mobile app certainly doesn't do this. Under a sensible license, it would be fine to include information about the data license as part of the software license displayed by the installer. Once installed, it's the user's responsibility, as with any other piece of software. If the license requires something on screen whenever a map is visible, we need to change license. I hope that it doesn't but I am not a lawyer. Robert (Jamie) Munro Ps. I think it's completely legit to talk about it here, but I wouldn't take what people say here as definitive - check with the foundation or with a lawyer who knows about CC licenses. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEvWxz+aYVHdncI0RAn/pAKDEga/q8uKF4+O0aiWSoFK7xL42mwCdG/pw WRYSw6Pqdhd0GycYG8JZgls= =QkRz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Static maps using the new export function
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Chance wrote: | Hello, | | I can't see an obvious way to do this, maybe I just need to dig around in | the code behind the export tab, but is it possible to already do something | similar to the Google static maps feature, i.e. allow people to just | specify a URL in an img tag and have the static image with optional marker | automatically created? | | http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/staticmaps/ | | If not, how much work would it be how hard? | | Sorry if this has come up already, it came up in a conversation with the | owner of www.suttonactive.co.uk as a good opportunity to swap OSM maps in | to replace a work-in-progress Google feature. Surely the easiest solution is just to use the export feature, and upload the result to your website as a completely normal image. This is exatly what OSM (especially with the export feature), and none of the competing web maps can do. You'd need to attribute copyright appropriately - just putting Map courtesy OpenStreetMap.org, on the page, along with a link to the license /may/ be enough. Otherwise, if you can link to a specific set of tiles, that would be much better than linking to the export feature directly. Something like: p img src=http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/9/255/170.png; / img src=http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/9/256/170.png; / br / img src=http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/9/255/171.png; / img src=http://a.tile.openstreetmap.org/9/256/171.png; / /p But you're a bit limited in where you can draw the edges of your maps, unless you do CSS things to hide them under other elements (which is how openlayers does it). Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEe3Tz+aYVHdncI0RAjAUAJ98y5rfGDLqFeZ4g55cp55XFULnfACeMoJR 7jyqW1fBeiXLmgdg1C3llOA= =t9P/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Beyond Zoom 18 - (Some scratchspacing ideas concerning siteplans)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: | El Martes, 22 de Abril de 2008, Tom Hughes escribió: | [...] | This has been discussed inumerable times before and the consensus has | been very clear that we should not use any part of the globe, no matter | how remote, as some sort of test area or scratchpad. | | If anybody wants to experiment, instructions on how to set up a rails server | are on SVN and on the wiki, anyway. I'm with Tom here, on not polluting the | main OSM database. This is why we need a test server. http://dev.openstreetmap.org/ should lead to a near-identical looking site to the main site, but where this kind of scratchpad testing, etc. is explcitly allowed. The database behind this site should be overwritten with the real database periodically. The site would also be the place where new versions of the site and Potlatch can be tried and tested. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIDb6Gz+aYVHdncI0RAufMAJwIf0KbjWDZzSUDfCQagHe4UadBeQCg1jTw aMORH+rq4stxiFbdzzlU914= =PO1c -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Printing the slippy map
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andy Robinson wrote: | Well, maybe you couldgive the new Export tab a try. Appeared the first | time for me when I gust opened the OSM homepage. Its been a long time | in the making but I'm really pleased to see it there. Thanks to all | who have got this coded and working. This is fantastic. It instantly shows to people the difference between us and the other on-line maps. The PDF mode is especially great as it means anyone can see and print a vector map instantly. I think it deserves a proper press release from the foundation. Longer term, it would be great if the PDF version let you select a paper size and orientation and made the map whatever scale was needed to fit it. As someone else said, it would be good if /this/ full page map had attribution etc. on it, but I wouldn't put the attribution on other formats of map - they are for building on and inclduing into larger documents, and the copyright needs to be added as appropriate to those documents. It's probably possible to add the copyright after the PDF has been made using ghostscript or something similar, if it's not easy to get Mapnik to add it. A quick interface request: Can we put PDF at the top of the list, as it's the most universally understood vector format, followed by SVG, then Postscript, then leave the raster formats (PNG and especially JPEG) at the bottom. We don't want people to download screen resolution maps, print them and say that on-line maps aren't as good as real paper ones just because they are first on the list. Will the postscript output work as an EPS? If so, could we call it EPS as that's a filetype graphic designer types will recognise. But again: Nice work!!! Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFICxnzz+aYVHdncI0RAgDxAKDUmmj22EI7v5JgcvPqNcVxmmLRFACdEYrC XPUFPvlpahp/6uK2xnCOZhA= =lpLs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging and rendering highways in the USA and elsewhere
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jo wrote: | Robert (Jamie) Munro schreef: | | When I look at the USA, I want interstates to be blue. When an American | looks at the UK, they want to see motorways to be a colour other than | blue, because then they will understand instinctively what kind of road | it is. This should be one of the major benefits of OSM over other maps. | | When someone from a USA IP address opens the map, they should see the | USA style tiles by default, but have the UK tiles on the layer switcher. | | That would indeed make a lot of sense. Otherwise you will get odd | results of roads changing style near the borders. So a separate tile | server for the US is called for. Probably one for France as well with | styles that look like Michelin's maps and maybe one for Germany (Are | Germans used to Kummerley und Frey?) Hopefully we won't need a separate tileserver for each rendering style - 1 server should be able to render more than one style at a time at different URLs. I am led to believe that mod_tile cannot currently render more than one style of tiles on a single apache installation - I don't know what tilecache is capable of. It would be more efficient to spread the load across multiple servers by odd/even tile numbers, or possibly by odd/even zoom levels. It is likely that a USA tileserver will be busy at different times from a UK or Japan tile server, and it would be useful if they could share the rendering loads between each at their own peak times. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFICejwz+aYVHdncI0RAvVeAKC1NMcAwG4DMJdvqL9LBs6VY73WNQCg5lmp WdydYFJvvcW6wdCwMUY2+r0= =NUEB -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] tagging and rendering highways in the USA and elsewhere
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Peter Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | If we can agree on the rendering rules and get both Mapnik and osmarender | sorted out for the USA then people will be incentivised to tag | appropriately. The moto 'render and they will come' probably applies here as | elsewhere. | | Agreeing on the rules or colour schemes is not the problem. | | The problem is that we do not have the technology to render different | countries in different ways. I don't believe we even know of an efficient | way to do it, so we don't even know what the technology would look like | should somebody want to write it. I don't think this is a problem we shuold be trying to solve. We should be solving the problem of the tile server only producing 1 rendering. When I look at the USA, I want interstates to be blue. When an American looks at the UK, they want to see motorways to be a colour other than blue, because then they will understand instinctively what kind of road it is. This should be one of the major benefits of OSM over other maps. When someone from a USA IP address opens the map, they should see the USA style tiles by default, but have the UK tiles on the layer switcher. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFICSf/z+aYVHdncI0RAsnVAKDQMXTqQ1140PMQj7tqae25Ua3HywCgh9Hu vgv5+TiMqgD0aaAGyN5T5rg= =mERT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo updates aerial imagery
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn van Exel wrote: | Hi all, | | Yahoo announced the 'single biggest imagery update' update for Yahoo! | Maps yesterday. See the post here -- http://ylocalblog.com/blog/2008/04/11/see-more-on-yahoo-maps/ | It doesn't say anywhere specifically which areas / countries / cities | have been updated, or whether the updates mean more aerial coverage. | Reading the blog post, my guess is the update is US-centric. It adds | 'up to two zoom levels' in certain areas. All in all good news for all | US-based or -centered Potlatch mappers, I'd say. I note that near where I live, someone has traced the edge of the high resolution imagery and tagged it: note=Limit of Yahoo! aerial photography around Oxford. This is great, but can we make a standard tag for this that we can search for across the whole world, using OSMXAPI for example? Like: aerial_imagery_available=Yahoo! aerial_imagery_available=openaerialmap Do people agree with this example? If so I'll add it to Oxford and any others I come across. Jamie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIBfKAz+aYVHdncI0RAuRlAJ9QLpk/c6afs+oQaDCpA12JyD8XBACfWS0k ptWPBMC9YUrdXERMkefVp7U= =Y2Gd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Ebling wrote: | I'm firmly with Richard so far on this discussion. | | On one of the issues, Robert, your understanding of | what A14 (A11) means seems very different to mine. | If I understand you correctly, you're arguing the road | should be tagged A11 because it has signs saying (A11) | on it, meaning that it's part of at A11 route. We're getting way distracted here. I merely suggested that if it were part of both roads (which legally it seems not to be in the UK, but according to comments legally is in similar situations in the USA), then you'd need to put it in a relationship to make the road as an entity make sense - just using ref's doesn't work well. Richard seemed to be arguing that putting the whole A11 (with or without the connecting parts from other roads) in a single relationship was not brilliant. Surely that's what relationships are for? I still don't think it's wrong to relate the stretch of the A14 that connects the disjointed parts of the A11 together in some way, no matter what the law says, but either way, the parts of a long route should be related to each other for database tidiness and consistency reasons. It just makes sense. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+2n1z+aYVHdncI0RAoTHAJ4z5w2EMqidGE35QRPA+/RrqAU4TgCbBafK YD48YNWofcgIc6cmmcRPVCI= =JauA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dave Stubbs wrote: | On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | | Steve Hill wrote: | | Putting all of the separate bits of the UK's M11 in a single relation | | sounds about as silly as putting all the roads in the UK called Station | | Road in a single relation - they are separate roads and there is no good | | reason to treat them in any other way. | | Seriously, you can't see a difference between the M11, and the | collection of roads called High Street, all over the UK and even the | world? You don't think that the second is just a bit more silly than | the first? | | You don't think that searching for M11 should produce one result for a | road that covers the whole country, and searching for high street should | produce hundreds of separate results? | | | He was talking about disconnected bits, although it does depend to | some extent just how disconnected the bits are as to how silly it is. | I'm sure you can find some nice extreme examples to prove both | arguments. | | I've no idea whether there are actually any disconnected parts of the | M11 - as far as I was aware it's just about 50 miles in the SE of | England - but anyway, that's completely irrelevant to the point. I live about 200m from the A44 in Oxfordshire. I've always belived that this is the road from the middle of Oxford to Aberystwyth, but you're arguing that this is untrue. It's simply the road from Oxford to Moreton in Marsh. It just happens to have the same ref as the road from Moreton in Marsh to Evesham that starts about 60m along the A429 from the road that passes me. Then there just happens to be another separate road with the same ref in Evesham that goes to Worcester and so on until you reach Aberystwyth. These roads have nothing to do with each other, and they shouldn't form a relationship in the database, and I shouldn't expect to ~ get home from Aberystwyth by following them. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+3F6z+aYVHdncI0RAkmyAKCLFb/Se+g0xCFyZ/X8LUtgH5VlXACg9XZ/ MRBqBJdFTRCXBIp0okeuoxk= =PzhM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fairhurst wrote: | Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | | If that is the case, then the relationship is essential to convey the | route of the A11 information. If the road just has 2 numbers, then it | isn't - just a semi-colon in the ref would do. | | But bearing in mind that this section _isn't_ the A11 and to tag it | as such is therefore wrong, then we map the facts on the ground - and | that's signage=A14 (A11). Of course, if you want to go round | tagging every single sign then good luck to you, but... It might not be the A11 from the point of view of who is in charge of maintaining it, but it is the A11 from the point of view of someone following the route of the A11 to get somewhere. Therefore it should be in a relationship as part of the A11, but should not be tagged ref=A11. If you tag it ref=A14 (A11), which may not be wrong, then when you ask OSMXAPI for ref=A14 or ref=A11, neither route will be complete. It just has to be a relationship. You can even tag the shared section's membership of the relationship as shared or something. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+gd0z+aYVHdncI0RAnUfAJ0Q7BbXpNUJ6bsadnYsWQXx0fW4IgCffbDU OEThxkdqgxx/hrnjqEtCwds= =q0te -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dave Stubbs wrote: | On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | Richard Fairhurst wrote: | | | Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | | | | If that is the case, then the relationship is essential to convey the | | route of the A11 information. If the road just has 2 numbers, then it | | isn't - just a semi-colon in the ref would do. | | | | But bearing in mind that this section _isn't_ the A11 and to tag it | | as such is therefore wrong, then we map the facts on the ground - and | | that's signage=A14 (A11). Of course, if you want to go round | | tagging every single sign then good luck to you, but... | | It might not be the A11 from the point of view of who is in charge of | maintaining it, but it is the A11 from the point of view of someone | following the route of the A11 to get somewhere. Therefore it should be | in a relationship as part of the A11, but should not be tagged ref=A11. | | I hate to say it, but if it's not the A11 from the point of view of | who is in charge of it, then it isn't the A11, and any route you | generate will likely be fairly subjective. It's not subjective, it is officially signed - the signs say A14 (A11). This happens all over the place in the UK A roads network. Going back on topic, fundamentally, I can't see how you can argue that it is wrong to connect all the ways forming a large numbered road with a relationship, which seems to be what Richard is arguing. It seems to me that it is exactly what relationships are for. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+ibsz+aYVHdncI0RAiAxAKCAhocz62EgTHZCKF3Z/6EF6D2yjgCg29c2 ngicRCABnBM0n6gh6FPuA4g= =+owL -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote: | Frederik Ramm wrote: | Sent: 07 April 2008 1:52 AM | To: Richard Fairhurst | Cc: Talk Openstreetmap | Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant | | Hi, | | If you simply use the ref tag to specify the road number, how would | you then use the API to access all ways making up B4027? | By using OSMXAPI: http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.5/way | [ref=B4027] | Which will omit anything tagged ref=B4027;B4028 or some such. Ok you | said there shouldn't be any of those in the UK anyway so I guess | you're fine... | | That the mainstream API doesn't do it is (if it's deemed useful) a | deficiency in the API, not a reason to add duplicate data. | I think it is a good idea to group objects that belong together in a | relation. Ultimately I'd expect the relation to carry the ref=B4027 | tag and to drop that tag from the ways contained therein. Makes a lot | of sense from a data modelling viewpoint I think. | | I think it’s a leap of faith to think that we will even get to the position | were the relationship alone holds the grouped data, such as ref. I see that | there will always likely be duplication in this regard with the same | information being held on the component parts as well as the relationship. I | don’t see this as a bad thing, the components may have equal applicability | and use as the overall object, especially in different applications. IMHO Data duplication is a really bad idea. It will get out of sync, and some renderings will show one version, others will show others. Use of relations allows us to reduce duplication. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+q7fz+aYVHdncI0RAqUDAJ9FN90vbUPb6z94JN4EfrAgYI/mNgCcCP+F aZVjVTsX3mqEgdm0OeORZhA= =hQce -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Relations not always brilliant
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fairhurst wrote: | David Earl wrote: | | In the UK, road numbers are unique (apart from about three cases | where local councils have cocked up, e.g. the B4027) and no | road can | have more than one ref. | Not true - the A11 and A14 share about 10 miles of dual carriageway | around the north of Newmarket, for example. | | It's absolutely true. That bit's the A14. This Highways Agency | document, for example, refers to the stretch of road in question as | solely the A14: | | http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/15200.aspx | | The fact that traffic following the A11 needs to use it is pretty | much immaterial - traffic following the A34 from Winchester to | Manchester, for example, has to use the M40 from Bicester to the M42, | and no-one's suggesting that the M40 is also the A34 (if it is, I can | cycle on it ;) ). No, it's the A14 leading to the A11, and will | almost certainly be signposted as such - A14 (A11), or on more | recent signs, on separate lines like this: If that is the case, then the relationship is essential to convey the route of the A11 information. If the road just has 2 numbers, then it isn't - just a semi-colon in the ref would do. Robert (Jamie) Munro (who thinks that relationships are so brilliant that long term we shouldn't tag ways at all - only relationships) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH+WFIz+aYVHdncI0RAqmSAJ93U5F7F5K0lcnrfXKdDWzhNmdjqQCg92v2 h4SW72Wx7EwsBdLtbufpd30= =lzzc -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [josm-dev] Coastline checker / fixer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Williams wrote: | Dave Hansen wrote: | On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 17:31 +, Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | I vaguely remember months ago when the coastline checker at | http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html was quite new, someone | [] | You can download a custom JOSM and validator .jar here: | | http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~daveh/josm/ | | I'm also keeping my personal JOSM patch set much better split out than I | did before, so I'm very willing to post it any time if people are | interested in integrating some of what I have done. | | If you decide to run it and have any troubles, please report them back | to me. I'll fix them as fast as I can! | | -- Dave | | | Can anyone tell me why Validator (the normal one) chokes on this | http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.49219lon=0.27476zoom=17 | please? I can reverse the way all I like, it's not duplicated, it's | clockwise whichever way the arrows go though! The normal validators coastline checker is completely useless. For a start the error message it gives is clockwise water. Well, that's not an error. All areas are clockwise. Coastlines and islands are anti-clockwise because they are holes in the sea area, but it's much easier to just think water on the right. I've never had it find something that was wrong, and it frequently pops up telling me I have clockwise water when I've just been fixing small lakes inside islands that are supposed to be clockwise. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH9LYcz+aYVHdncI0RAlAkAKCuZBE9VnUyFAQOUyoCOO6td/EXIQCgomLo hKIwKr+dmqLVzP03F3+iBfo= =6afb -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Mottram and Tintwistle proposed bypass
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stephen Wing wrote: | On 01/04/2008, *Norbert Hoffmann* [EMAIL PROTECTED] | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Ok, so how do I tag a section of highway that is going to be grubbed | up and | returned to nature (which is happening for short sections of the A14 at | Haughley Bends)? | | highway=trunk | construction=disused | I think | | highway=disused | disused=trunk | | would be more consistent to construction and proposed. | | | Although that may be more consistent *once* the road has been dug up, | this particular road is still in use at the moment; in that case what | should (if any) additional tags be applied to the road? end_date=-MM-DD (estimated date if needed, leave off the day and or the month if you like) Hopefully renders will automatically take account of this at some point in the future, meaning we will no longer need the: x=y = x=z,z=y hack (where z is proposed or disused or whatever) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH85qqz+aYVHdncI0RAtSyAKCs2y/QUQMENTUf9O7Rd4kduBVjuACeL1fO 0DcrWoRdPB8rLDFC3AHbUYM= =wG54 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mottram Bypass - proposed roads
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Bullock wrote: | If it's genuinely under construction now, then if you tag as | k=highway v=construction | k=construction v=trunk (or any other normal highway tag) | | Then it will render as a dashed line in Osmarender (but not currently on | Mapnik) | I don't see much point in adding dates specifically. The dates are useful information both now for a future perspective, (e.g. for planning a route to an event, you might want to make a map of the roads as they will be when the event happens) and will be useful in future for a historical perspective, even ignoring the side benefit of the map changing automatically to the right thing on next re-render. | I don't think we should | expect it all to show up as complete in the database magically on the date. Why not? Is it that difficult to code? We use -MM-DD format, so just a string greater than comparison (i.e. ) is good enough. | It's not particularly difficult to change it to a highway=trunk (or | whatever) when it's open. It's rare for a road scheme to open exactly on the | stated date anyway, and that's assuming that the powers that be are going to | be more specific than say, opening Summer 08. Tag it with start_date=2008-08 approx - Summer 2008. (summer being June to August, give them the benefit of the doubt and put it at the end). On the day it opens (or when the opening date is announced), change it to the date of that day. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH8Ptwz+aYVHdncI0RAq6UAKDnEAgbYdcu3+cy/IJXrFUp5RhnXgCfa2oq c8UJb4nbmJKnjiDT77urmyc= =CnJU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Mottram and Tintwistle proposed bypass
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Miller wrote: | | This job does raise an important question about how to map and model | proposed roads. We have used the tags ‘highway=trunk’ and ‘tunnel=yes’ | and name=’Mottram … bypass (proposed)’, ‘proposed=trunk’ and added a | note. It would be better not to have to use the tunnel tag to get it to | render properly (especially as part of the road is indeed in a proposed | tunnel which we can’t represent!). Btw, the Glossop Spur didn’t render | properly this week under mapnik and I think (hope) it was because I used | ‘tunnel=true’ not ‘tunnel=yes’. I have changed the tags for the Glossop | Spur so that they are now identical to that for the main bypass and | should render properly next week. The correct tagging is to put a start_date that is somewhere in the future (i.e. the estimated date of completion of the project). I don't think renderers support this yet - they just render it as a normal road. They should render it as under construction (or not at all) if the date is in the future, and normally otherwise. Similarly for end_date. Dates should be in -MM-DD format as this is the most easily machine readable. I think renderers should allow partial dates - so if you know something will open in 2010, but not what month, you can just put start_date=2010, or if you know it's February start_date=2010-02. I also think renderers should ignore things after a space, so you can put start_date=2010-01-01 approximately or start_date=2010 proposed or other unforeseen uses. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH7OSOz+aYVHdncI0RAuWKAKD8Zfojnl07nhH78z72H4bs4pgRGQCfZLnl s1g5bSrPwSpHRz899DtZc20= =kaiQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Possibly interesting GPS navigation product for symbian phones
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Loadstone GPS is Free satellite navigation software developed for Symbian Mobile/phones using the Series60 platform. Although Loadstone-GPS is a useful navigational tool for everyone, it is particularly useful for blind and visually impaired people using screen readers... http://www.loadstone-gps.com/ This mailing list post says they are looking at Open Street Map data: http://www.loadstone-gps.com/pipermail/loadstone/2007-October/002371.html Has anyone heard of this or tried it out? I've added a wiki page about them: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Loadstone Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH7Qroz+aYVHdncI0RAoT4AKDdV8t5+UNLaLuo616RTclCq8ZWowCgv5cL AEBNwXaiorafPQ9h6vFzSUw= =nl6k -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | On 28/03/2008 16:50, Raphael Mack wrote: | Am Freitag, 28. März 2008 schrieb Steve Hill: | On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Steve Hill wrote: | Are you saying every single arrow points the wrong way? Because that | would be an easy fix to make ;-) | Yes, seems to be the case :) | To complicate things more, the direction arrows on data imported from a | local GPX file are the right way around, so this problem is only | affecting data being retrieved from the OSM server. | mh, I guess this cannot be fixed in josm, since the the server returns the | stored gps points in arbitrary order. I would even suggest not to draw any | direction arrows for gps data from the server. | They can be sorted by timestamp, can't they? They do have timestamps AFAICS. | | I believe that they are sorted by timestamp. What they aren't sorted | by is the track they came from so you might get points jumbled up from | different tracks. | | The API deliberately tries to expose limited information about the | points for privacy reasons as some points may have come from traces | that are not public. Why expose the timestamps of private tracks. Expose the order, but please don't expose the timing - apart from the positions themselves, this is the most private part of the data. Thanks, Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH7S2Rz+aYVHdncI0RAmFbAKD8v03s1x1xh0ed6AsPkuSD27QS6ACgub70 2M8xpalyerW3RC/NwR5oRlo= =19Pp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Including OSM maps in leaflets
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rob Myers wrote: | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Therefore, I argue that CC-BY-SA 3.0 should be okay, given we're talking | about a Derivative Work. | | What is the derivative work in this scenario? The printed map. It will probably be based on OSMarender output, then loaded into Illustrator, tidied up, and then have things added and edited. But either way, the printed map is not the data, it's derived from the data. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH64CXz+aYVHdncI0RAkZmAKCjnlKvG4HINLA+57R4IpvYAdDevgCdG0Gk 5LrnwD3SKrMRIbbtFHQwQHE= =LtD6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] RFC: railway=incline
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sven Geggus wrote: | rag-and-pinion Surely you mean Rack and pinion? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_and_pinion Someone else said rag=yes for a tag, and I had no idea what they were on about until now. :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH64duz+aYVHdncI0RAkn4AKDkzlE/DcHwwnEMDqyLwu9FZFYXegCghnuV y4ly1D2bpFKnnoAN12Wj/dU= =ESbI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cycle lanes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lars Aronsson wrote: | A bus stop is an attribute on a node (highway=bus_stop) in the | middle of a way. If I want to indicate that this bus stop is on | one side of the street, left and right don't matter much, since | there can be two ways both pointing towards the node. It would be | better to use the words north, east, west or south. If the way | goes from south-west to north-east, then north and west both | mean the left side of that way. I think it may be better to indicate the direction of the busses at the stop than the side of the road that the stop is on. So on a south-west, north-east road, both north and east would mean the busses travel in the direction of the way (and in the UK, the stop is on the left hand side of the way). J.D. Schmidt wrote: | It doesn't matter if the busstop is on the right or left side of the | road... Neither OSM wise, nor in the real world. Yes it does, because the side of the road determines which direction the busses go, which is a pretty important piece of information. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6ngaz+aYVHdncI0RAgEVAJ9/sOIKarF0j1umgi511nhjOFncUACeKedw POZACHq860ogfa+6qeCN9EA= =cZXj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Coastline checker / fixer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I vaguely remember months ago when the coastline checker at http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html was quite new, someone suggested they thought it was mature enough to be used to auto-fix ways that need reversing, and others suggested that it wouldn't be a good idea to do that. I'm wondering if it could add a FIXME=coastline_direction_checker_error or similar tag to ways that it thinks are the wrong way around so that it is easy to find them using JOSM's search function. Currently, I have to keep switching applications between JOSM and Firefox to try to work out which small island is the one that is backwards. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6ohvz+aYVHdncI0RAtCHAJ0d8hNLV/o46CNgR64C9yraErLdWQCgpZYn jC6LrtQjVBJaECBkR5ZL/SI= =f3p4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recruitment/Community Poster.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Simon Wood wrote: | Hi all, | It would appear that the amount of OSM'ers here in Canada is a little | limited. especially in the rural areas. The bigger cities have be more | or less mapped out from the high resolution aerial photography, however | many of the street names are missing and there is very little detail | on the ammenity front. | | The only way this is going to be resolved is if we can get more locals | involved in the project. I'd like a really trivial to use road naming interface for people who live on roads that other people have traced from aerial imagery. So easy my Dad could do it - click on the road and a text box with the name and a drop down of road types appears. Type the name and press enter. Make it only usable on roads with no name - for other roads / features, you can add an edit note (which should be a FIXME tagged node). It should update the Mapnik DB as well as the real DB so that changes show up immediately. | So why not just use Google Maps (or the like)? | | Although Google makes it's maps available on the internet, it is a company | that is more interested in charging people and companies to license it's | data. This look, but don't touch means that you can't reuse the maps they | provide (without paying), and should anything be wrong good luck with trying | to get it corrected. Google are our friends. Google don't have maps of their own. I'd prefer something like Google makes maps licensed from commercial sources available on the internet. It pays a lot of money for these maps, funded by advertising. Although you can use the maps on the web for free, if you want to use them in another form (e.g. print them out or use them in computer program) you be breaking copyright law unless you license the maps from the original providers. | OpenStreetMap.com is different... AFAIK, it's usually OpenStreetMap.org, not .com. I think we should participate in and encourage the this is not for profit meaning of .org. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6QQWz+aYVHdncI0RAs0jAKDxgH6dcG9zhItTwPhWFg4Un2iWlQCgvTzR 6As0KUIp4k4WGecbZt+9Pc4= =ZDF4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] railway=incline?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sven Geggus wrote: | Hello, | | I just want to ask whats the State of railway=incline? | | While it does not apear on map-features ist seems to be in use, as it can be | found on the TIGER to OSM Attribute Map. What does it mean? Is that like a funicular railway? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Funicular_railway I'd prefer railway=funicular than railway=incline. Incline sounds like it's just a railway on a slope. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6SZcz+aYVHdncI0RAne6AJ0bHmoDOWrSgFm6LXneZhkik2fTpgCeMSsl F0pTnNqoOsx09BMFycxnpY0= =r1Nx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM and scale
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: | Yes, they are probably using the same scale bar for WGS84 and Mercator. | | As far as I know, in WGS84, the scale bar is correct vertically (lat), | but in Mercator, that scale bar is wrong both vertically and | horizontally if you are far away from the Equator. | | As you say, one easy way would be to consider the latitude of, for | example, the center of the map when calculating the length of the scale bar. Please make the scale bar accurately measure what is under it, rather scaling it to the center of the map. I like to move the map around so that things are near the scale bar to get an approximation of how big something is. If the scale bar cannot be to within about 5% of correct for the whole screen (e.g. when zoomed out to see the whole world), I think it should be hidden, or maybe some kind of max and min scale could be shown - perhaps with another scale bar at the bottom of the screen. Thanks, Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH6TXDz+aYVHdncI0RAtzYAJ9kTtZ3RtnH0UA4/6vLkgjG+RKnGQCfTADa djo5AQ+NV9Oj8ttKCwWCF+k= =QdHA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Survey: Bad Map Rendering
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: | I'd be happy to hear from you about such areas of bad rendering, | whether they are bugs in there renderer(s) or just things that are | ugly for some reason. It's kind of been mentioned already, but Dual carriageways should turn into a thick road with a thin border-coloured line down the middle when the two sides of the road are close enough to touch at a particular zoom level. Currently they just blend into a single carriageway. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH55btz+aYVHdncI0RAuP8AJ9MyfFso6GWkKT7kLmIwTUQ0NFtqQCgxqDq pKA3ssTcuvtcSbrkweizJ+s= =QrYi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to perfect the map
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lars Aronsson wrote: | All the wiki pages on map features describe how to add | denomination to an amenity=place_of_worship, but don't say when | a church should be drawn as a dot amenity or when the outlines of | the building (and surrounding park) should be mapped in detail. I | think we should make wiki pages that start with real world objects | instead of tags. IMHO, the outlines of all buildings and parks etc. /should/ be mapped in detail, but won't be because that's too much effort for most mappers. Marking the building with just a node is better than leaving it off the map, and good enough for most uses of the data. I have only found it possible to measure a building outline based on aerial imagery - I've not managed to get a good enough image from a GPS. I'm hoping that one day, video mapping (using match-moving as well as GPS) may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_moving http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_from_motion See also PTStereo (http://www.panotools.org/) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH5v1Tz+aYVHdncI0RAhvEAJ9q7o4zf/FNd/oby3alJy5Zgk+6AACg+8mr TAmhwdI48KojUAb2Tpif5qg= =anWn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMXapi
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 80n wrote: | | On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:54 PM, Chris Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | I have extracted some data yesterday from OsmXapi for a range | [bbox=-1.1,53.63,0.16,54.17], roughly the area of East Yorkshire, UK. | | In the resulting data there are nodes and ways from well outside | this area, for example: | | node id='46201367' lat='52.3305' lon='5.06701' user='Ed Kapitein' | osmxapi:users='Ed Kapitein' timestamp='2008-02-22T16:55:00Z' |tag k='AND_nodes' v='236712'/ |tag k='AND_nosr_p' v='10012917'/ |tag k='is_in' v='NL'/ |tag k='name' v='Muiden'/ |tag k='place' v='village'/ |tag k='population' v='1000'/ |tag k='postal_code' v='1398'/ |tag k='source' v='AND'/ | /node | | Is this normal? | | | This should be fixed now. Osmxapi was being a bit over-zealous by | selecting all the nodes from all the ways from all the relations under | some circumstances. This sounds unsustainable. It is very likely that once a few large relations are added (a complete set of is_ins, for example), the whole world will be interrelated. Please make this a non-default option. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH5PVxz+aYVHdncI0RArH9AJ4w5n48/0/h5SVA0XbUV4eQcEKOOQCffODj OZxyn9rdG78vWPr1xRF11/s= =FSj7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering power lines: black is beauty
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Karl Eichwalder wrote: | Things not too important, we are rendering highly visible with the nice | black color. They are also obfuscating tracks: | | http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=49.455373790593406lon=11.175777321956557zoom=14layers=F0B0F | Er, I think you must have pasted the wrong link? I followed that one and | got a very clear map with tracks and powerlines and no serious conflict | between the two. Seriously, that map looks very good to me. | | Agreed, it looks much better on my Linux machine than on the Apple. | Maybe an anti-aliasing issue. Nevertheless the lines are too | visible, at least in farm areas: | | http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=49.49948648513156lon=11.006926936622994zoom=14layers=F0B0F | | Probably we also need more attributes to distinguish between main and | minor power lines. That's what I was thinking. A main 275kV pylon is around 50m high, and visible for miles around. It won't cause a problem on a map because there is no way anything can be under it. You can see them clearly in the Yahoo Imagery. This is the only kind of power line I have been adding. E.g: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.75279lon=-1.31145zoom=16layers=B0FT A local power line connecting a couple of farmhouses at 240V or 415V is similar to a telegraph pole, and will typically be next to a farm track or something. It is likely that as it runs along one side of the track, it will be draw a line through the track at certain zoom levels. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH4oZ1z+aYVHdncI0RAmTPAJ9Q+DLXJT+ugT46puaSEnfSRc6OjwCg4CdF 56JxDZrLPDVGmoZ2RROw304= =hWsr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tag proposal/approval system is too heavyweight
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gervase Markham wrote: | [I'm afraid this might be a bit of a complaint without a solution, as I | don't have the necessary wiki skills to fix this. But I hope someone | else does.] | | The admin involved in proposing and approving tags, in terms of the wiki | changes required, is far too heavyweight. (Note: I'm _not_ complaining | about the voting system, only the admin required.) In order to mark two | new values as approved, I had to: | | - Remove each one from Proposed Features | - Add them back to Approved Features | - Edit the relevant Map_Features sub-template to add a new line for each | - Create a new page for each tag, explaining what it does (which | duplicates data on the individual Proposal page) | | Each of these editing operations is tricky because you have to fill in | various fields in various templates which are far from obvious as to | their function. | | Here's the way it would work in an ideal world: | | - Cut the relevant table line out of Proposed_Features and add it to | Map_Features | - Er... | - That's it. | | This would require: | - Proposed_Features and Map_Features to have compatible templates. | - Writing proposals in a style as if they were accepted, which is fine. | (Unaccepted proposals would be automagically marked with this proposal | is not yet official.) | - Creating all tag explanation pages in the same namespace, rather than | Proposed_features/Foo and Map_Features/Foo. | ... | | Does anyone else see what I'm driving at? If we are thinking of revamping this, can I make a request for better integration with Tagwatch? http://etricceline.de/osm/united-kingdom/index_en.htm So tags would have their own pages, keys would have their own pages, and the human and machine readable list of all approved tags (i.e. Map Features) would be generated periodically by tagwatch (or some clever mediawiki feature). Also run tagwatch on OSM's servers, perhaps on virtual domain tagwatch.openstreetmap.org. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH4ROaz+aYVHdncI0RAhMjAKDgmf5BySYfcNgm29G6aig6NM7QQQCghY8B oHApuHtjMoKCDNXt14lH38A= =qpwf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Blind People and OSM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Edoardo Marascalchi wrote: | hi, | as mentioned above, yesterday we was at a radio talk-show to launch the | milano micro mapping party initiative. | During the broadcast, a blind listener wrote us an email asking if the | data are suitable for blind people. | | It could be of extreme interest to add information usefull for blind | people to build a customized routing application to drive blinde people | in our cities. | I think we could tag every single walk-crossing having the blind-beeper, | but i'm interesting in the GUI too just because it's a interesting | application of open datas. | The blind people mentioned above told us about a university project to | customize the TomTom GUI, but i don't think the data in the tom tom | could be usefull for blind people. | | Someone have interesting experience about this topic? There was this post about a year ago. I don't think anyone responded. http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2007-July/005807.html Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH3+J+z+aYVHdncI0RAmf0AJ47tt3mQmKeWRXQxm2NZo8FU3Y3lQCgk7Rl zVjx5Jweqvqf8CgmCiaac4U= =XNp4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline checker back online
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: | After sorting all the problems mentioned and more, the coastline | checker is finally back in the air. That's great - thanks very much. I note that the ways in wrong direction checker is /much/ better than the JOSM validator one, but it still goes wrong in some places like this: http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html?zoom=11lat=24.029lon=-74.473 Any idea what went wrong there? Thanks, Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH3UBOz+aYVHdncI0RAmMVAJ4oVohc2o9qwruroemKS6HCFF7qLACeNUuy AElsh6MULdOPCXcf1zWgDLo= =feaJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Coastline checker
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In firefox, the coastline checker at http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html is giving an XML error: XML Parsing Error: mismatched tag. Expected: /p. Location: http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/coastlines.html Line Number 168, Column 7:/div Also, according to http://hypercube.telascience.org/~kleptog/last_update.txt it hasn't been updated for nearly 2 weeks. It's a really useful thing - if someone could have a look at it, that would be great. Thanks, Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH2Q4Tz+aYVHdncI0RAnuXAKD3WukM5uO6uzndbDLwL9nMhBBcrwCg+Rwh etBtSDhYAN6HHU/6bVRjX5Y= =IkpW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Cities with grids
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I've been adding a large city grid using Potlach and Yahoo Aerial imagery. Nearly every road is perfectly straight from end to end, so I've been only adding the ends, and leaving the middles unconnected, knowing that I can go back in JOSM, validate, find crossing ways, and join them without moving them. Except that I can't join them without moving them - all the perfectly straight grid aligned roads are now a bit wonky. There has to be a better way. Ideally, I'd like to tag all the intersections as floating, meaning that there position is not important, their true position is determined by the intersection of the ways they are part of. Editors could notice this, and when I drag a node at the end of a way, all the intermediate floating nodes positions would be recalculated. If I drag a floating node it would be untagged automatically. What do other people think of this idea? Would a tag floating=yes on nodes be a good way to impliment it? Does someone have the ability to write a tool to realign all floating nodes? Thanks, Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHyqM+z+aYVHdncI0RAiYdAKCahfjqPiJ/gCxNQMz0MY7+bCDAXACfUdI/ 4kwMmvm87YYhoi6j9Z59siA= =yHud -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to correct logical errors in some effective way?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rahkonen Jukka wrote: | Hi, | | When I am looking at the Scandinavian data loaded into PostGIS database with the | fine osm2pgsql utility (thanks, Artem) I can simply find hundreds or thousands | of logical errors in data. For example this is an excerpt from the list of | highway tags used in the data: | ... | residetial | roundabout | secondary | Secondary | secondary link | secondary_link | service | Service | services | servie | servoce | sevice | ski_jump | Skolestræde | snowmobileway | sservice | stairs | step | steps | Steps | tertiart | ... I'm sure there used to be a script that someone ran on every weeks planet dump that looked for errors like these and fixed them. I thought that the list of errors it corrected was in the wiki, but I can't find it. Nowadays, it could probably run on the hourly osmosis dumps. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHyquzz+aYVHdncI0RAnRNAKDO5Cr9u/gkTJs1eVxmIBeUurEHbQCgknNX o64X7iuWNduev+FI4ij1u/g= =AfbW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cities with grids
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | What do other people think of this idea? Would a tag floating=yes |on | nodes be a good way to impliment it? Does someone have the ability to | write a tool to realign all floating nodes? | | No I don't think it would be a good idea ;-) | | If tagging for renderers is a bad idea then tagging for editors is | a bad idea as well in my opinion. I think you may misunderstand what is meant by tagging for renderers. The bad idea that is tagging for renderers is when you put mark a river as a lake because lakes show in a nice shade of blue on the map, but rivers show only as a line for each bank. Or you put a feature in twice, once to show as an area, once to show as an icon because the renderer doesn't draw both by default like you prefer. There is another kind of tagging for renderers that is completely OK, for example, it's perfectly find to have a tag called osmarender:renderdirection that overrides osmarender's default name direction drawing policy. Having said all of that, that isn't what is happening in this case. I am tagging a point as floating because I haven't surveyed the point properly. I only know it's there because when I last visited the city I noticed how you could stand in the road in many places and see 10s of blocks perfectly straight in each direction, and I have carefully aligned the ends of the street (with Yahoo Imagery). Of course, if someone on the ground uses a survey-quality GPS, and finds the Yahoo imagery is off, it's going to be much easier for them to correct the 80 or so ends of the streets and have the rest fall into line rather than them have to correct all 400 points manually. Even if they are using JOSM's align nodes line tool. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHyyiHz+aYVHdncI0RAqqyAKCSTTEYsWtMwHr4cfpjP6D80MMQ5ACdHEnW WjpRMp6501zsI7LLzosvO9E= =8TJR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cities with grids
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Ramm wrote: | Hi, | | I've been only adding the ends, and leaving the middles unconnected, | knowing that I can go back in JOSM, validate, find crossing ways, and | join them without moving them. Except that I can't join them without | moving them | | Why? | | JOSM has code to place a node at the exact intersection of two ways if | you click reasonably near the intersection. Does this not work for | you? (You'd have to have a several-months-old version of JOSM for the | feature to be missing.) I have just re-checked - draw two ways forming | a big X, place one node in the middle, it's spot on. Not for me it isn't, it's all over the place: http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=-25.2938lon=-57.6631zoom=17layers=B000F000F I happen to have deleted my preferences and plugins folder, downloaded JOSM and recreated my setup from scratch this morning(*) before I added the roads above as I had been trying out someone's custom branch, and had tried to install a new version of validator only to find it kept crashing. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHyymwz+aYVHdncI0RApVIAJ92q9UQzNYMNPedkamkVCskTSUYzgCgxQJU laT6nmaz0vTiksY0JDn25CM= =7zqz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: | Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | | On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2 | | I've made a wiki page to collect votes, if people think that's a good idea. | | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park | | Robert you are missing the whole point here. | | While the access=public applies to car parks - this would be preserved by the | general rule of copying the node tags to the area. | ANY POI that is changed from node to area will potentially have the same | problem, and we should be fixing the general rule not starting to build | another set of pages for voting on every POI node/area conflict debate? I don't want people to say Well, delete the ones for car park, but nodes for shopping centre should be something else. We'll deal with shopping centres or whatever else there is on the horizon later, and we will be able to refer back to the car park vote as a strong precedent. I was just trying to stop this stupid thread going around and around getting nowhere, and get the car park situation fixed by means of a vote ASAP. We could then use it as a precedent when it comes to other cases. Maybe I should have made the vote general, I probably should have used a better wikiname than Car_Park, but I didn't - I was in a hurry :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro Ps. Please can someone who thinks we shouldn't delete them please go and vote. It's looking rather one-sided at the moment. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park Also it would be interesting to see someone elses second choice. Pps. Fröstel: I've rewritten your comment as a 4th vote option and signed you up for it - please can you check you are happy with that. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxCYVz+aYVHdncI0RAkJ3AJ9qUoz/z4iw9BBYJKdOlA1DGY9jSQCfXtns rBv//v2eILXWCRvlirBI8Ro= =mYga -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Lester Caine wrote: | Mark Williams wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | Lester Caine wrote: | J.D. Schmidt wrote: | Lester Caine skrev: | [big snip] | | LOGICALLY - there should never have been a problem created. A POI element | should consist of a single entity which may have additional area information. | Even those tags that are currently only defined as 'node' in many cases WILL | be expanded to include area information at some point. So PLEASE can we have | some sensible method of identifying PAIRS of tags so we can THEN decide what | to do with them !!! | | Is this not a job for relations? If the pair were related, then we have | no problem? | | Correct - but how do you identify elements uniquely so you can create the | relation? I'm not quite sure what you mean, but to try to bring this back onto topic, if you mean How do we find amenity=parking nodes that are duplicates of areas? the answer is that we find all the nodes inside areas. If there are any that are just outside, we will miss them, whici is annoying, but not the end of the world. In order to find them, we can use a Simple postGIS query as suggested by Dave Stubbs (which I have attempted to reformat a bit): select p.osm_id ~ from planet_osm_point as p, ~ planet_osm_polygon as a where a.osm_id!=p.osm_id ~ and a.osm_id in ( ~select a.osm_id from planet_osm_point as p, planet_osm_polygon as a ~where a.amenity='parking' ~ and p.amenity='parking' ~ and a.way p.way ~ and intersects(a.way, p.way) ~group by a.osm_id ~having count(p.osm_id) 1 ~ ) ~ and p.amenity='parking' ~ and a.way p.way ~ and intersects(a.way,p.way); Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHxF6/z+aYVHdncI0RAh6PAKCtfn/vsqSso7HUrD/3csG2prh5WACeMmZn Y8CEJCVGmItUyvNr7qx0azw= =srxW -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dave Stubbs wrote: | On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | | Tom Hughes wrote: | | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | | Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work, because | | Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work to do | | that. | | | | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those | | symbols for parking areas for some time. | | | | Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we can't | | resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on the fly | | if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for | | automatically. | | | | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate | | areas, although I know it is quite common. | | I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be 1 item | in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you really | need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a relationship | to link the DB objects together. | | I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to | quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce | a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to | take this list and delete or relate the nodes. | | | As of the last planet there are 5881 such nodes. Interestingly there | are one or two car parks with two or three nodes in them. | My hugely overcomplicated postgis query could delete these for mapnik | in about 30 seconds if it was important to do so. Can we have a vote on what to do next? Options: 1. Delete the nodes inside areas, make sure the areas are set access=public and any tagging (e.g. car park name) is copied across. 2. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in and do nothing else. 3. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in and change the tagging of the node somehow. On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2 I've made a wiki page to collect votes, if people think that's a good idea. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Car_park Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHws+Az+aYVHdncI0RAi3yAKDiRd9b+E4eoL98IiStYDER/Y9ZoQCg52LT nNIAMwX8fhKXELyek30PIvU= =qZVA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Raw GPS layer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sebastian Spaeth wrote: | Guilhem Bonnefille wrote: | OpenLayers can render KML files as lines. | (http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html) | | I'd rather have something client-side like this rather than adding yet | another layer to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] server (alternatively we could use a different | [EMAIL PROTECTED] server for stuff like this). | In my idea, offering a layer for GPS data allows really simple client | to display such info. | | What is difficult about | http://www.openlayers.org/dev/examples/kml-layer.html ? It's just a | webpage with javascript? We're talking about density mapping millions of points across huge areas. See this: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~random/gps/ Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHwtCyz+aYVHdncI0RAhdtAJwOJoai/KhWoj5XPO0tNKAtevWBCQCeLw1/ 3H8Brc6P7Kr+sTVbaBweuz8= =09dQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dave Stubbs wrote: | On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | Hash: SHA1 | | | | Dave Stubbs wrote: | | On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Robert (Jamie) Munro | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- | | Hash: SHA1 | | | | | | Tom Hughes wrote: | | | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | | | | Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work, because | | | Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work | to do | | | that. | | | | | | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those | | | symbols for parking areas for some time. | | | | | | Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we can't | | | resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on | the fly | | | if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for | | | automatically. | | | | | | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate | | | areas, although I know it is quite common. | | | | I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be 1 item | | in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you really | | need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a relationship | | to link the DB objects together. | | | | I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to | | quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce | | a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to | | take this list and delete or relate the nodes. | | | | | | As of the last planet there are 5881 such nodes. Interestingly there | | are one or two car parks with two or three nodes in them. | | My hugely overcomplicated postgis query could delete these for mapnik | | in about 30 seconds if it was important to do so. | | Can we have a vote on what to do next? | | Options: | 1. Delete the nodes inside areas, make sure the areas are set | access=public and any tagging (e.g. car park name) is copied across. | 2. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in | and do nothing else. | 3. Add a relationship between car park nodes and the area they are in | and change the tagging of the node somehow. | | On that list, my vote would be, in order of preference, 1,3,2 | | | You missed option 4: | - do nothing to the data and get the renderers etc to sort it out You can add option 4 to the wiki if you want, as long as you can propose how the renderers are going to sort it out. :-) Relationships are designed for grouping things together. Doing nothing is really option 2 - Dave Stubbs has proved it's possible to extract the data easily, I'm prepared to write the code to add the relationships if no one else will. I can't see how option 4 could ever be preferable. If a renderer doesn't want to use the relationship, they don't have to. If they need it and it isn't there, we're going to be stuck with double symbols. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHwtmfz+aYVHdncI0RAmxZAKDyiYtcDhrqzFWnxWXDsLjMCI14bACgp1fD O1PWoCBnt5PJctRDPcuV5Po= =w/s+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Unfortunately removing the related node isn't going to work, because | Mapnik won't then render parking symbols. And it is a lot of work to do | that. | | I believe it will - as far as I know mapnik has rendered those | symbols for parking areas for some time. | | Since we have contradictory behaviour in the two renderers we can't | resolve this automatically unless osmarender can look and see on the fly | if there is a P node inside the area it is trying to do one for | automatically. | | I believe it is fundamentally wrong to add nodes which duplicate | areas, although I know it is quite common. I agree with this wholeheartedly. 1 item on the ground should be 1 item in the database. What no one else has suggested is that if you really need to put something in the DB twice, then at least use a relationship to link the DB objects together. I expect that someone with PostGIS knowledge can construct a query to quickly identify all the parking nodes inside parking areas and produce a list. I'm sure that many of us could write a perl or python script to take this list and delete or relate the nodes. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHwfo4z+aYVHdncI0RAiLwAKDknPqP+m3PP6okGzOsJl8r4g5LnwCg+iZv CZ/eiOlZbSRqpDOW0QDId4A= =hEE3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Pint symbols: YUCK!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Burgess wrote: | On Sun, 2008-02-24 at 16:46 +0200, Lauri Hahne wrote: | The old pint symbols look amateurish, the new ones only hideous. Just | take a look at http://informationfreeway.org/?lat=61.4978902211692lon=23.764454385823434zoom=16layers=F0B0F | | | That looks like a few streets with lots of bars. I don't see anything | wrong with it. | | What do you want it to look like? A different symbol? Not to show the | pub symbol? Show more of other symbols? Buildings outlines being shown? I think the symbol is fine, but there seems to be a line of white pixels on the right hand edge, which looks like it might be a rendering error. I'm not sure that pubs are more important than many other features of the map that are not shown - for example shops. If it were my map, I would remove pubs and put them in some sort of clickable overlay. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHwfxwz+aYVHdncI0RAi6XAJ9pKtNr8b/GVpPuzMFTnE4Ec/Aq4QCePYeA BA3lHwnflfB6tigz4kvcjH4= =P6n3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch really hacks me off because...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Fairhurst wrote: | I found Steve's excellent tutorial video on Potlatch really | interesting - not so much because I don't know how to use Potlatch ;) | , but more from a UI feedback point of view. | | For example, Steve was having difficulty remembering when/how you | should double-click, and when you should single-click, to complete a | way. Funnily enough Anna (Mrs F) was using Potlatch the other week and | I noticed her having exactly the same difficulty. But Potlatch has | been around for some nine months now and I don't ever recall it being | brought up. | | So now's your chance. | | What little things like that annoy you, or took you a while to get used to? Show GPS tracks doesn't have a corresponding hide GPS tracks option (or I couldn't find it last time I tried). Space-drag the background is really not obvious - it's a completely secret, yet totally essential feature. Of course, it would be nice if it could save the results of the drags, perhaps by putting a node at the centre of the map with a tag indicating the co-ordinates of the same position in the Yahoo map. Really the procedure of editing should be: * Show GPS tracks and existing ways semi-transparently. * Align imagery * (optionally) hide GPS tracks * Then start editing Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHvCIAz+aYVHdncI0RAnOxAJ46vwJeYGI/UnXO2e9tYK7hcbgXxwCg7ilo HoGu7A0k9lb/CqVvyPF+DsQ= =rZjx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] correctly mapping avenues
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Karl Newman wrote: | On Feb 11, 2008 7:20 AM, Bernd Raichle [EMAIL PROTECTED] | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | Hi, | | | on Sunday, 10 February 2008 08:34:31 -0800, | Karl Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | writes: | On Feb 10, 2008 4:21 AM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Since trees lining a way/street are such a common occurence, why | not have a simple additional tag to the main road. | | lined_by_trees=yes/no/left/right | |I'm a bit unhappy about needlessly inflating the importance of the |direction of ways. Long-term, I would actually like to get rid | of the |direction and express everything in relations. | | This means, that you find it necessary to have something like a | direction or a side, both of this features related to a way? | But you don't want to express a direction or a side by the _implicit | order_ of the way nodes. | | |The reasons for | this |are | |(a) the direction is too easily changed, sometimes by mistake | | ... because none of the current OSM editors show direction- or | side-related tags explicitly. | | |(b) there might be multiple conflicting things that rely on the | direction, e.g. a road that is oneway from A to B but has a | slope from B to A | |Anything with left/right in it also relies on direction. I'd | prefer |east/west/north/south, or using an explicit relation that says |trees on the right between nodes A and B along road C. | | I am against east/west/north/south because there are a lot of | ways/areas/things which do not go straight ahead. | | | Okay, this thread is at risk of spinning wildly off-topic, but | I've been | thinking about this situation recently. It seems to clamor for | the use of | specialized relations that are direction-aware. That way, if a | way is a | member of a relation and has directional properties (left/right), | then the | editors could look for those relations when the way is reversed | and either | fix them automatically or at the minimum raise a warning dialog. | | I also had some other ideas about enforcing referential integrity for | another type of specialized relation (if one or more node | relation members | is required to be part of a way relation member, then enforce | that rule). | That rule could actually be enforced by the API. | | These specialized relations would just give some structure to the | wide-open | relation type, without implying anything about the nature of the | relation. | It could possibly be accomplished through special tags on the | existing | relation structure. | | Do you have any propositions how this will look like or how this | should be done? | | A few days ago I have started a new proposal for a Segmented Tag, | which relates a set of tags to a directed or undirected part of a way | (I have called this part segment inspired by GDF's Segmented | Attributes). I have not found the time yet to finalize the proposal | adding some examples, nonetheless it can already be found in the OSM | Wiki (Relations/Proposed/Segmented Tags). | | | Best wishes, | -bernd | | | Big +1 on this proposal. That's exactly what I've been thinking about | lately. It's stupid to chop up nice long ways just because the speed | limit changes or the way happens to cross a bridge. I think the opposite - we should move nearly all tags from ways into relations so that we can chop the ways more - probably at every junction - - without causing duplication. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtNn2z+aYVHdncI0RAhBRAJ9XK0il1W4tAiAumfcKqWDqY/NR2ACg3eGx nHl5J7hXD+iNpOOSyKADb+4= =58IA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] FYI: Yahoo Fire Eagle
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This seems like something we will be interested in: http://fireeagle.research.yahoo.com/ Perhaps someone in the foundation can click the interested in partnerships link on that page. Quoting http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/02/indoor_camping_and_the_social.shtml For me I'm really exited by Tom Coates and Rabble's latest Yahoo! project: Fire Eagle; which allows you to share you location with friends, other websites or services. You can think of Fire Eagle as a location brokerage service. Via open APIs other people can write applications that update Fire Eagle with your location so that further applications that can then use it. So for example, someone might write an application that runs on your mobile that triangulates your position based on the location of the transmitters before sending the data to Fire Eagle. You could then run an application on your phone that let you know if your friends where near by, what restaurants are in your area or where the nearest train or tube station is. Obviously what Fire Eagle also provides is lots of security so you can control who and what applications have access to your location data. I can't wait to see what people end up doing with Fire Eagle and I'm hoping that we can come up with some interesting applications too. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHsxQ/z+aYVHdncI0RArDrAJ9palZPDc4XTG5MHM/A26C9MVKEtQCfdh+s frOL9quNrp8yBodD0kmHdoM= =XNIl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Progressing OSM to a new dataLicence regime
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gervase Markham wrote: | Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | It's been proposed by me several times in the past. I think it's | essential. I don't know of a similar major project that doesn't do some | kind of assignment. Wikipedia is the nearest, but Wikipedia is a | collection of articles that all stand on their own. I didn't make it clear that I want a non-exclusive, non-revokable license to the foundation, rather than assignment as such. This is important, for example, for the case of map data collected as a side product of collecting some commercial data. There's no question that you can still use your data for whatever you want. | Can you name some which do? ~ * MusicBrainz.org ~ * voxforge.org Then there's lots of code projects like Mozilla, apache, etc. and also semi-free projects like dmoz.org, peoples map etc. | We need a situation where someone can say Yes when an enquiry comes | in, not hire a lawyer to look at license XYZ. Otherwise the data is | useless for many purposes that everyone would agree it should be allowed | for. | | But surely a license is a codification of what everyone agrees it | should be allowed for? In theory yes, but based on how long we've been discussing this issue, it can never be in practise. | For example, a while ago, ITN news needed a map of Baghdad. No one could | say for sure how much of the TV buletin they would have to release | CC-by-sa in order to allow them to do that. Looking back at that now, | probably only the final ITN styled bitmap image that is shown on the | screen, but the designers of ITN's style guidelines probably haven't | licensed ITN to release them. | | If the foundation owned the data, they could say to ITN just show a | logo and www.openstreetmap.org in the corner at some point, and | everyone would be happy. | | As I understand it, the new licence solves this problem. It might solve /that/ problem, but it will not solve all problems. | Another example: it would be great if an npemap type system could be | used with OSM maps to derive a free postcode database, but license | incompatibilities make that impossible. This is insane. | | (Define free.) You may think so. Other contributors may think it's | entirely reasonable for postcode data calculated using OSM to be BY-SA | rather than PD. In this case PD. FTP is PD, npemaps postcodes are PD. | Obviously if | that went to any kind of vote, the foundation would allow that, but they | don't currently have the power to allow it. | | It would certainly be interesting to look at whether the licence change | would have any effect on the postcode problem. | | Yes, maybe you can come up with a license that would unambiguously allow | the above two uses, but there will be cases where it will be in OSM's | interests to bend the rules, and we must provide a mechanism that allows | this. | | There are negative sides to a copyright assignment. A) We probably | wouldn't get one from e.g. AND or MASSGIS (although I'm speculating). We could handle large data donations specially. If there were 3 or 4 organisations we had to ask (and normally only 1 per geographic area) before we could use the data for an unforseen purpose, that's a lot easier than having to contact potentially thousands of contributors each time. How do we know that AND and MASSGIS will support our current proposed license change? | B) | It would mean the scenario I mentioned to Frederik, where a commercial | company could sue a license violator, couldn't happen, because they | would no longer be the copyright holder. If they are suing over a part of the data they contributed, they would be joint copyright holders. They would be entitled to damages along with the foundation. They could also help the foundation with legal costs or something. I'm not sure of the law, but maybe they could sue on the grounds that they lost money due to a third parties illegal actions, even if the actions weren't against them directly. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHrKdgz+aYVHdncI0RAo0xAKCbFFDPXTYpo+JfCC5sYvgtrYMS1ACg/TcX 4mU1f4iqyC17p7lImTkkGW0= =qK4y -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Progressing OSM to a new dataLicence regime
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gervase Markham wrote: | Robert (Jamie) Munro wrote: | Long term, we can avoid the ambiguity by making it clear that all data | belongs to OSM, whoever that is (probably the foundation), then we can | let the foundation change the license whenever they need to. | | This would be a copyright assignment, which would be a large change in | the relationship between the participants and the project. As far as I | understand it, it hasn't even been proposed. It's been proposed by me several times in the past. I think it's essential. I don't know of a similar major project that doesn't do some kind of assignment. Wikipedia is the nearest, but Wikipedia is a collection of articles that all stand on their own. We need a situation where someone can say Yes when an enquiry comes in, not hire a lawyer to look at license XYZ. Otherwise the data is useless for many purposes that everyone would agree it should be allowed for. For example, a while ago, ITN news needed a map of Baghdad. No one could say for sure how much of the TV buletin they would have to release CC-by-sa in order to allow them to do that. Looking back at that now, probably only the final ITN styled bitmap image that is shown on the screen, but the designers of ITN's style guidelines probably haven't licensed ITN to release them. If the foundation owned the data, they could say to ITN just show a logo and www.openstreetmap.org in the corner at some point, and everyone would be happy. Another example: it would be great if an npemap type system could be used with OSM maps to derive a free postcode database, but license incompatibilities make that impossible. This is insane. Obviously if that went to any kind of vote, the foundation would allow that, but they don't currently have the power to allow it. Yes, maybe you can come up with a license that would unambiguously allow the above two uses, but there will be cases where it will be in OSM's interests to bend the rules, and we must provide a mechanism that allows this. Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHqlXaz+aYVHdncI0RAruLAKDFMC5/F21mdMJbU/mc5Q8WdeSygwCfQG3n JRVeGK62lCSlh9J8oSfnPIw= =sIHk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Recent Edits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tom Hughes wrote: | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Tom Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | What does the separate object type gain us exactly, apart from more code | to maintain? | It gives something that can record useful information in a | structured way, like the address of the person that added it. | | The other it does it that it makes it possible for the server to | do things like RSS feeds of tickets in an area - if it had to search | for all the nodes with some special tag that would be much harder | and/or slower. It would also be much more useful as it could be used for other purposes, like finding when someone adds a new pub near me :-) Robert (Jamie) Munro -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHqIKNz+aYVHdncI0RAscgAJ9quEnmS5TW/4vpIXJY8LHuiuC0FACeJGU5 R+ZWExd5lFmXu0CkzGRkkKU= =FTZ8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
