Re: [Talk-GB] Cycling between capitals

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Andy Allan wrote:
>Sent: 19 May 2008 10:44 AM
>To: OJ W; Talk GB
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Cycling between capitals
>
>On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 3:20 PM, OJ W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Would it be worth including the cycle map as a layer on the front-page
>map?
>
>It's a request I've heard from a few people, but I don't know what
>everyone else thinks of the idea.
>
>* It's not got global coverage. Not by a long way. I do my best to
>render everywhere that people might look at, but there's only 20 GB of
>tiles and it's very heavily skewed towards the UK and even London. I
>bet some people would complain.
>* It would work better if it ran with mod_tile, so that anywhere could
>be rendered on the fly. But it doesn't. Not yet, anyway.
>* It can't handle contours for the whole world without a
>MegaServerOfDoom. It's only the lack of global coverage that means I
>can get away with it :-)
>* It might open the floodgates as everyone clamours for their custom
>map to go on the front page
>* If we were to put it on the front page today, I'm not sure if my
>server would survive. It's doing fine, but I just don't know how much
>traffic osm.org would throw at it.
>
>In saying that, I think the cycle map explains better than any
>catchphrase exactly why OpenStreetMap is way better than anything else
>out there, and it's also a really cool and useful map in itself. So I
>wouldn't be opposed to it if other people want it to happen.

Personally I think this raises the question of what the project is and how
it best supports and links to external content. The core function of the
project is its data and therefore our main www page links should focus on
that, however I accept that the one of the best ways to promote the project
and encourage more activity (all aspects) is to show what the data is being
used for.

I see the simplest way to achieve this is to make the "view" tab a portal
that gives a one line description of "approved" links. A link would only be
added to the portal if the community thinks it would be worthwhile. The
cyclemap in my view fits the criteria, as does mapnik default and [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] that
we have now. Hosted and external links might get displayed separately, but I
don't have a strong feeling on that.

The text info alongside the link would explain the coverage and limitations.

Cheers

Andy


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[Talk-GB] GPS handheld prices dropping considerably

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

I've noted a significant downward trend in the price of Garmin eTrex units
over the last couple of months. For instance, you can now pick up a Garmin
eTrex Legend HCx, which has the newer high sensitivity receiver and can
display OSM mapping (using mkgmap) for £140 including a 2GB micro SD card.

That might still be twice the price of a basic non map logging setup and you
may still be able to get cheaper prices outside the UK or by bidding for a
non European model on ebay but it's still a big change in the market since
Christmas.

If you were thinking of dipping your toe in the OSM mapping game then it's
probably never been better to do so.

Cheers

Andy


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[Talk-GB] FW: [OSM-talk] Durham Mapping Party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 01 June 2008 12:30 PM
To: 'Gervase Markham'; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Durham Mapping Party

If anyone wants a lift to Durham from Birmingham (or from somewhere on the
logical route between Birmingham and Durham) let me know. I'll have room for
three persons but only room for two extra bikes on the rack.

Planning on leaving for Durham very early on Sat morning, leaving Durham
late PM on Sunday.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gervase Markham
>Sent: 27 May 2008 1:46 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [OSM-talk] Durham Mapping Party
>
>A reminder that there is a mapping party in Durham on the weekend of the
>7th and 8th of June:
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Durham_mapping_party
>
>Durham is well-served by trains from London, taking just under three
>hours, and reasonably well-served by trains from elsewhere.
>
>Do sign up if you are interested in coming.
>
>Gerv
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Birmingham social evening (and micro mapping). Tues 24th June

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

All are invited to a social evening (with a little bit of micro mapping for
those interested beforehand) on Tuesday 24th June in Birmingham city centre.
Will be meeting at Pennyblacks at the Mailbox in the centre of the city.
Micro mapping from 7, pub socialising from 8.

Please put it in your diary.

More at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Midlands%2C_UK_User_Group

Please add your name to the wiki to note if you can/can't make it.

Hope to see a great crowd there :-)

Cheers

Andy




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Re: [Talk-GB] North Wales Mapping

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A North Wales trip to knock off some of the Snowdonia footpaths and features
has been on my to-do list for some time so depending upon timing I might be
up for this.

Cheers

Andy 

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McKerrell
>Sent: 15 June 2008 4:05 PM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] North Wales Mapping
>
>Hi
>
>I've had a request for information from someone on an alternative
>mailing list about setting up a mapping party. It sounds like they've
>never done any actual mapping but think it's a good idea in general.
>They wanted an event to keep scouts, guides and air cadets busy. They
>seem to have all the resources they need (venue, computers,
>refreshments) they're just lacking in GPSes and mapping skills (and a
>date).
>
>They're in the Menai Bridge area so is there anyone around there that
>would like to get involved with this? I'd be happy to help them
>arrange it but I don't really know the area so I don't really know
>what needs doing. From the map it looks like there's a good skeleton
>but comparing it to multimap they're missing lots of detail.
>
>Let me know if you're in the area and would like to be involved with
>this.
>
>John
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Friday in Royston, Hertfordshire

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Nice work David, hope the day goes well.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Earl
>Sent: 17 June 2008 1:10 PM
>To: osm-gb
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Friday in Royston, Hertfordshire
>
>A couple of us will be starting on Royston, Herts this coming Friday.
>It's only 15,000+ people, so it will take a couple of sessions - unless
>that is, someone else wants to join us, in which case we can get it done
>in one day.
>
>If anyone's interested, do get in touch directly. I'm expecting to start
>from Royston station about 10.45am.
>
>(Since Letchworth and Baldock in the west, Cambridge and intermediate
>villages to the north-east and Saffron Walden and intermediate villages
>to the east are all done, this will be a useful hole to fill: the
>Cambridgeshire work will join up with big completed chunks of
>Hertfordshire).
>
>David
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] MSc Dissertation on OSM

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Angela,

Well really you should read and understand the project wiki, especially the
links from the front page at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org as this will
explain most of your basic questions. Feel free then to ask more specific
questions on specific matters once you have a better feel. I would also
recommend posting specific questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as you will
find a wider audience there.

Cheers

Andy
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Angela .E.
>Sent: 18 June 2008 12:48 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] MSc Dissertation on OSM
>
>Hi gang,
>
>I sent out an email way back a month or so ago as regards, my dissertation
>project on analyzing the usability of the OSM. Now I need your help - I did
>like a description of the process involved in using the OSM i.e. process of
>gathering coordinates and uploading it to the map online.
>
>Your help will be greatly appreciated, as this is the first phase of my
>research. Thanks in advance
>
>
>Angela Egbunu
>
>
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo! Mail
>/evt=52418/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html> .
>A Smarter Email.
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
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>4:30 PM
>



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Re: [Talk-GB] LugRadio Live UK 2008

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

If anyone going is able to help out on the OSM exhibit please get in touch.
It would be great to have a few knowledgeable OSM'ers on hand to show people
how the system works. While we won't have access to the live db at the event
we can give participants a flavour of how it all works and I expect I'll
have the loan GPS units that people can try out if they wish.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wellsted
>Sent: 20 June 2008 10:13 AM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] LugRadio Live UK 2008
>
>LugRadio Live UK 2008
>The Lighthouse Media Center, Fryer St., Wolverhampton, WV1 1HT
>
>LugRadio Live UK 2008, the most popular community Open Source event in
>the UK takes place in Wolverhampton on the 19th and 20th July 2008 and
>features three stages full of 25+ speakers including Chris DiBona
>(Google), Max Spevack (Red Hat), Steve Lamb (Microsoft), Robert Collins
>(Canonical), Benjamin Otte (GNOME), Rob McQueen (Collabora), Edward Hervey
>(Collabora Multimedia), James Hooker, Kevin Sandom, Barbie
>(MessageLabs), Blackadder (OSM), Daniel James, Emma Jane Hogbin,
>Bruno Bord, Ben Thorp, Rufus Pollock (FFFI) Sam Birchall, John Carr,
>William J Giddings and many more...
>
>In addition to this the show will feature over 20 exhibitors, special
>debate sessions, the legendary Gong-a-thong Lightbulb Talk
>Extravaganza (read: a series of small talk chaired by a man in a very
>small pair of pants and a very large gong - not to be missed!),
>parties on the Friday and Saturday evenings and much, much more.
>
>All of this is just 5 pounds, and there are even a raft of hotel deals
>available to make your trip simple and cost effective. Head over to
>www.lugradio.org/live to find out more.
>
>--
>Ron Wellsted
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wellsted.org.uk
>N 52.567623, W 2.136111 Linux Counter No. 202120
>Ekiga: 645022
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
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Re: [Talk-GB] LugRadio Live UK 2008

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

If we had a virtual image then we could do plenty. What works best is if we
project the normal user interfaces up on a screen so that visitors can see
how it works, That could be done off a laptop or even directly off the
server perhaps. Some of the time you are zooming about on the map and some
of the time you are explaining about the user interface through www. A
static page or three of the wiki, even as an image, would explain how new
users find out more about it all. There isn't really the space to have lost
of people browsing a map.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: Jonathan Bennett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: 20 June 2008 12:29 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] LugRadio Live UK 2008
>
>Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:
>> While we won't have access to the live db at the event
>
>Andy,
>
>Do you have enough machines available that if a virtual machine image of
>a working OSM stack got built, you could use that?
>
>I'm thinking:
>
>* Build VM image of OSM server
>* Import latest planet.osm just before show.
>* At show, build LAN with server and whatever client machines you can B/B/S
>* Configure JOSM/Potlatch on client machines to point to that (or just
>frig it in hosts).
>* Take snapshot of working server
>* Let visitors play to their hearts' content.
>* Restore snapshot if things get really messy
>
>I can't be there in person, so I could only help with the first bits of
>this.
>
>
>--
>Jonathan (Jonobennett)
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Andy Allan wrote:
>Sent: 23 June 2008 6:16 PM
>To: Russ Phillips
>Cc: OSM GB
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
>
>There's a few Sustran's volunteer "Rangers" within the OSM community,
>myself included. We've tried various approaches to them with very
>little success. They seem to like having sucky maps on their website,
>charging a small fortune for maps that would be mostly unnecessary if
>the routes were properly signed, and just use OS maps with wild
>abandon internally. In fact, one of the staff from Sustrans offered me
>their entire OS-derived mapping database if I wanted it, and I got
>nowhere explaining to him why that wouldn't be allowed.
>
>They seem fairly good at cycle routes and dreadful at all things maps,
>and a classic example of why going out and doing stuff (us mapping the
>network in less than a year) is often better than evangelizing (since
>they still don't want to help nor understand us), and also why
>self-delusion about the wonderful day that someone will turn round and
>open the OS data simply is a waste of time perpetuated by British
>newspapers who could be supporting and promoting OSM instead.
>

A quiet revolution, with OSM showing how we might be better than what they
have now seems to be the best approach and Andy's version of our data is one
of the ways to prove that. And as Andy says, those of us who are Rangers
also have a say from the grass roots end of Sustrans and by showing the
local sustrans officers how our data can be used we may be able to spread
the word within. 

Seperately I'm having some discussions with the people at Sustrans and those
involved with Connect2, hopefully to keep open a dialogue. Its acknowledge
by them that they pay a lot for their OS licence, but currently I think
there rely too much on their OS data (its used for many many products and
services within Sustans, not just online mapping) so its not simply a matter
of swapping out for an alternative.

In reality though, until our mapping is essentially complete in the UK I
think any change is unlikely, but I wouldn't like to put any bet on things
for this time next year.

Cheers

Andy R


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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Russ Phillips
>Sent: 23 June 2008 9:40 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
>
>> From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
>>
>> A quiet revolution, with OSM showing how we might be better than what
>they
>> have now seems to be the best approach and Andy's version of our data is
>one
>> of the ways to prove that. And as Andy says, those of us who are Rangers
>> also have a say from the grass roots end of Sustrans and by showing the
>> local sustrans officers how our data can be used we may be able to spread
>> the word within.
>
>Well, at least now I know that people within OSM are *trying* to
>convince Sustrans. Is there any potential mileage in getting Sustrans
>people to mapping parties?

There are several layers to Sustrans. There are those that are not part of
the actual organisation, volunteers, many of them cyclists, who might or
might not be interested in maps and mapping. That's the group that help
maintain the routes. My experience indicates that most already in the ranger
programme are interested in cycling and not in making maps.

Then there are the regional sustrans office personnel, these do the grunt
work on recruiting and managing the network, working with the local
authorities etc etc. For these Sustrans is the day job, however I believe
most are committed to the cause too so while not necessarily interested in
maps or mapping are worth getting to know if you have the chance. Becoming a
ranger gives you that chance (I'll be in my regional office on Thursday for
instance)

Then there are the folks in Bristol that set policy and run the whole show,
these are the folks we have to influence regarding mapping because they
decide policy. Yes we can influence them via the others but to make a real
impact we have to demonstrate something tangable and of real benefit to
them. That will take time but I'm sure we can get there, though it will need
some headline grabbing demonstration of our mapping to make everyone sit up.

So, my belief is that in realty recruiting sustrans people to our cause is
unlikely to be very fruitful. Look instead for people with time on their
hands, those still in education, bored professionals like me ;-) and the
retired.  

Cheers

Andy

>
>Russ
>
>
>
>This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-dev] Google Map Maker

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Sjors Provoost wrote:
>Sent: 24 June 2008 8:32 AM
>To: Openstreetmap Dev list
>Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Google Map Maker
>
>> On 23 Jun 2008, at 23:33, SteveC wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=307
>>>
>>>
>>> Google Want to be TeleAtlas
>>> Google have launched MapMaker, a kind of faux OpenStreetMap where they
>>> own all the data and you're only allowed to map in certain Freedom Of
>>> Speech Zones.
>
>I'm a little more positive for the moment, see my blog post:
>
>http://sprovoost.nl/2008/06/24/google-map-maker-and-openstreetmap-my-five-
>cents/
>
>In short, if Google and the OSM community are open for it, there is
>huge potential for collaboration. Google can provide the OpenStreetMap
>community with the massive scalable infrastructure they need and
>OpenStreetMap can provide Google with a community, map making
>experience and great tools.

The problem is that Google haven't come and spoken to OSMF at all. There has
been complete silence on this. I only see the shark swimming in circles
here, it wants the meat and it's going to use all its power to get it. If it
had any interest in collaborating with OSM and its community there would
have been a dialogue. There has been none.

I don't see anything positive in this announcement for OpenStreetMap, on the
contrary I think our efforts are being shafted.

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] reminder - Birmingham social and micro map this evening, Tue 24th June

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Just a reminder that we have a social evening in the centre of Birmingham
tonight for all those interested in meeting up. A little mapping in the
locality beforehand is also on offer for those interested.

More on the wiki at:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OSM_Midlands%2C_UK_User_Group 

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Russ Phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
>Sent: 24 June 2008 1:57 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: RE: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
>
>Quoting "Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> So, my belief is that in realty recruiting sustrans people to our cause
>is
>> unlikely to be very fruitful. Look instead for people with time on their
>> hands, those still in education, bored professionals like me ;-) and the
>> retired.
>
>Ah well, fair enough. They seemed to be ideal candidates for mapping
>parties if nothing else, but I'll bow to your superior knowledge ;-)
>

Please don't be put of by any apparent negativity in this respect. We can
collectively make a difference if we all keep nipping at Sustrans heals, and
I'm sure that a few Rangers and Sustrans staff would become OSMers if we can
get a good interchange of ideas going. So please do keep up the good
communications whenever you come across any of them.

Cheers

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Russ Phillips [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Sent: 24 June 2008 2:22 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: RE: [Talk-GB] Sustrans
>
>Quoting "Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>> Please don't be put of by any apparent negativity in this respect. We can
>> collectively make a difference if we all keep nipping at Sustrans heals,
>and
>> I'm sure that a few Rangers and Sustrans staff would become OSMers if we
>can
>> get a good interchange of ideas going. So please do keep up the good
>> communications whenever you come across any of them.
>
>Oh, absolutely, and to be honest, I'd try to do the same with any
>organisation that looked like it might benefit from OSM. Talking to
>people *might* wield results - ignoring them never will.
>
>One thing I did decide after meeting the Sustrans guy was that I want
>some OSM business cards. Nothing fancy, but it would have been nice,
>when he asked if we had a web site, to have been able to just hand him
>a card. If nothing else, he might not have remembered the URL by the
>time he got home.

A simple card with the web address and the OSM logo would be perfect, I'm
always needing the same but haven't got around to doing any. I'd add my name
and an email address too so that the person can make contact again.

Has anyone posted any similar proofs to the wiki/svn? if not would be good
if someone can do one.

Cheers

Andy


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[Talk-GB] FW: Manchester Evening News

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Anyone with a geocaching bent wish to respond?

Cheers

Andy

-Original Message-
From: Simon J. Donohue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 03 July 2008 11:58 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Manchester Evening News

 
I'm a feature writer with the Manchester Evening News and I'm
looking for a local fan of geocaching to talk to about the phenomenon.
Hope you can help, Simon Donohue. 0161 211 2485.




 


 
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[Talk-GB] OSM at LUG Radio Live this weekend

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A reminder to all that the final ever LUG Radio Live event [1] is taking
place this weekend in Wolverhampton. So if you are about come on over and
have some fun. I'm doing a talk on OSM and we will have a bit of an OSM
exhibit both days to try and convert the remaining heathen to the cause.
After all, with the end of LUGRadio they are all going to need a new
distraction.

If you can make it down to have some fun it would be great to see you

Cheers

Andy

[1] http://lugradio.org/live/UK2008/


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[Talk-GB] FW: Southwark Park Road and Blue, SE16

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Anyone willing and able to help out with this?

Cheers

Andy

-Original Message-
From: Helen Vincent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 28 July 2008 3:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Southwark Park Road and Blue, SE16

Hello,

 

I work for an organisation called Carbon Descent based in Borough, London.
We're being funded by Southwark Council to run a series of 'walkabouts'
around Southwark Park Road and the Blue Market Place in SE16 in August.
These walkabouts involve local residents, who are asked to think about what
they do and don't like about the area.  All participants receive
refreshments and an energy saving lightbulb for their time.  We facilitate
these sessions, and report on the findings to the council.

 

Southwark Park Road is currently not mapped in great detail.  It would be
great if you could publicise our event do those carrying out mapping and ask
if someone would like to come along with us to map the area, as we are
planning follow up work in the community and to have a map of the area would
be fantastic.  The dates are:

 

13th August 1.15pm

13th August 8pm

14th August 9am

16th August 12pm.

 

Please let me know if you would like to take part.  If you would like any
more information, my contact details are below.

 

Best wishes, 

 

Helen Vincent 

 

 

Helen Vincent
Sustainable Transport Officer 

Please update your records with our new company name Carbon Descent. All our
other details remain the same. For further information you can visit our new
website at www.carbondescent.org.uk  .

Carbon Descent
Third floor, 84 Long Lane, Borough, London SE1 4AU
Tel +44 (0)20 7089 6970 Fax +44 (0)20 7407 9646
www.carbondescent.org.uk  

Registered in England. 
Carbon Descent Trust Registered Charity Number: 1058566 Company Number:
03259144
Carbon Descent social enterprise Company Number: 3574256 

Carbon Descent is an independent social enterprise and environmental trust
with the experience, expertise and commitment to create strategies and
deliver solutions that measurably reduce carbon footprints, creating a
sustainable and equitable future for all. 

Working in the key areas of energy, resource use, transport, the built
environment and renewables for over 10 years, we partner with local
authorities, private business, charities and communities to foster a low
carbon world.

 

This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you
are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
unauthorised copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this
e-mail is strictly forbidden. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the
contents of this e-mail represent only the views of the sender and do not
impose any legal obligation upon Carbon Descent or commit Carbon Descent to
any course of action.

P Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you really
need to.


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[Talk-GB] Got a bike? then this mapping party is for you

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

OSM cyclists,

I'm organising a bunch of mapping parties courtesy of some excellent funding
from Cloudmade. To break up what will be otherwise a rather urban campaign
I'd like to intersperse with a few cycling and walking orientated ones.

One of the weekends is October 25/26 and I wanted to get a feel for how many
cyclists would be interested in mapping the Lincolnshire Fens (basecamp
probably Boston) that weekend or if there would be a preference to leave it
to the spring. We are a hardy bunch so my feeling was that it probably
didn't matter when we did it but the raw winter winds should probably be
avoided!

The idea would be to map the whole of the area by bike alone (including
Boston and villages if possible) similar to the Rutland party a couple of
years ago but without hills ;-)
I'll be hoping to make it quite a big event by encouraging CTC interest (not
too many street names to get, just good traces etc)
 
Would be great to hear views and how many would be interested.

Oh, and in case you are interested the season will kick off with the first
mapping party in unexplored Bradford on 27/28 September.

Cheers

Andy




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[Talk-GB] Wales weekend 12/13/14 Sept

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

There are two places now spare in the cottage for the Wales Weekend (nights
of 12/13/14 Sept). If anyone is interested, the cost is £55, please get in
touch. 

It would be really great to have a full contingent as its going to be great
fun. The last time we did this (ie a cottage) was the Isle of Wight and we
all know how great that turned out.

Cheers

Andy




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[Talk-GB] Calling all mappers - Bradford really does need you. Bradford Mapping Party 27/28 September 2008

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The venue is sorted and the cake has been drawn. The Bradford mapping party
is going to be loads of fun. Come on in to Bradford on the weekend of 27/28
September and have a great time mapping one of those mostly unexplored
places that at the moment is barely on the map. Loads to see and do over the
weekend.

This mapping party is generously supported by cloudmade.com which means we
have a great venue in the city centre (Midland hotel) complete with all the
necessary amenities, refreshments and wifi to keep a mapper happy.

The wiki page is at:

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Bradford/Mapping_Party";

Please sign up to show your support.

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of demolishinghistory. (make press release?)

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Tim Waters (chippy) wrote:
>Sent: 29 August 2008 4:44 PM
>To: 80n
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Corporate Cartographers accused of
>demolishinghistory. (make press release?)
>
>On 8/29/08, 80n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> He didn't need to ask permission either.  The Ordnance Survey Act of 1841
>> gives him the right to "from time to time, after notice in writing of the
>> intention ... to enter into and upon any estate or property of any county
>> ... for the purpose of making and carrying on any survey..."
>>
>> The full scoop is here:
>>
>http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Primary&PageNumber=98
>&NavFrom=2&parentActiveTextDocId=1149277&activetextdocid=1149281
>
>I heard somewhere that they no longer hold this legal right?

Not unless the Ordnance Survey Act 1841 was repealed?

Cheers

Andy


>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Wales mapping action

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Nick Black wrote:
>Sent: 08 September 2008 9:33 AM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Wales mapping action
>
>Hello,
>
>Its only a few days until the eagerly anticipated Welsh mapping
>weekend. I don't know about you guys, but my preparations are well
>underway - pumping bike tyres, charging batteries...  I have a few
>ideas / questions:
>
>* Where exactly is the cottage?  Is there an address / postcode?
>* BBQ - how about a BBQ on the Sat evening or Sun afternoon?  It may
>rain, but thanks to the awesomeness of cheap mass manufacturing, Argos
>sell gazeebos for £9.99, which make a great BBQ shelter.  Its more fun
>than cooking indoors and I bet there are some great butchers in the
>area.
>* Mapping planning - I've updated the wiki page to include a mapping
>planning section to organise areas to map, preferred mapping regions
>* Lifts - I can still give a lift from central London on the Friday
>evening, returning Sunday evening.

And I have room for someone from Birmingham on Friday early evening if
anyone wants a ride. Also there is still one space left in the cottage,
would be great to fill it if someone wants to get in touch with Nick
Whitelegg who can't make it now.

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] Reminder - Invite to Bradford Mapping Party, 27 & 28 September

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A reminder that the Cloud Made sponsored mapping party in Bradford is just a
week away, running over the weekend of 27 & 28 September. 

It's open to all and we would really like to have you along. Mapping parties
are a great way to explore somewhere new and have a great time. The social
side is pretty cool too ;-). So whether you can join us for half a day, a
whole day or the whole weekend you are bound to have a lot of fun. No
equipment required but bring along a GPS/Camera/Notepad if you have one.

Full details on the wiki at:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Bradford/Mapping_Party

See you there :-)

Cheers

Andy




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Re: [Talk-GB] Change of pub for tonight's mapping party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Gregory wrote:
>Sent: 21 September 2008 3:58 PM
>To: Shaun McDonald
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Change of pub for tonight's mapping party
>
>Because there needs to be a micro mapping party in the area?
>For Farnham last weekend, there was only one pub mapped, it was like going
>back to medieval times of OpenStreetMap!
>
>I moved into my new Durham house yesterday and you'll be glad to know I've
>already found the nearest pub and it's bar.
>

I trust you moved somewhere that was completely blank ;-)

>It makes me wonder when I find a closed down pub wether I can map it in
>some way. You can find a fair few that are still distinctively pubs,
>sometimes even with with the name shown.
>

The only tag that changes is that it is no longer amenity=pub, but you can
still tag it as a building, former pub even, and its name, which are all
still valid descriptors.

Cheers

Andy

>
>2008/9/17 Shaun McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
>   On 17 Sep 2008, at 14:41, Grant Slater wrote:
>
>
>
>   Shaun McDonald wrote:
>
>
>
>   Steve has changed the pub for tonight to The
Fettler.
>   http://openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.51581&mlon=-
>0.17868&zoom=17&layers=000BFTF
>0.17868&zoom=17&layers=000BFTF>
>
>
>
>
>   Has it re-opened? It was closed down last year.
>
>
>
>   If it is closed, why is it still on the map?
>
>   Shaun
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>--
>Gregory
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.livingwithdragons.com
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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>10:10 AM
>



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Re: [Talk-GB] not_in_map_features

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
>Sent: 24 September 2008 12:29 AM
>To: Ed Loach
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] not_in_map_features
>
>Hi,
>
>Ed Loach wrote:
>
>> If I'd known
>> I could have just gone in and revised it to make everything that
>> much more logical and consistent I'd have done it already .
>
>Map Features is there to document what we have (and by implication to
>suggest that new things could be mapped in the same way if practical).
>
>So if you change what we have, or if you introduce something entirely
>new we didn't have before, then you should indeed amend Map Features.
>
>Just revising Map Features on a whim without also revising the data
>would, however, be counterproductive because, as I said, Map Features is
>there to document what we have (and not to say "I'd like you to do it
>this way in the future please").
>
>If you intend to make a large-scale change to the data that's there,
>some advance discussion is in order and you should only proceed if there
>is widespread acceptance. This does not necessarily require writing a
>proposal on the Wiki. And widespread acceptance does not mean "I called
>for a vote and of the 8 people who participated, 7 were in favour".
>

I'd like to reinforce Frederik on all of this. +1

Cheers

Andy

>Bye
>Frederik
>
>--
>Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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[Talk-GB] Birmingham social this evening

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

An invitation to all to join me from 7:00pm this evening at The Old
Contemptibles, 176 Edmund Street, Birmingham (Alongside Snow Hill Station -
sorry If I said Moor Street previoualy!) for some gentle OSM banter and
discussion on the now nearly complete map of Birmingham.

Cheers

Andy




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Re: [Talk-GB] URGENT: potential stand at Linux Expo Live

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

I can't help at all those days so I hope others can fill the gap? Would be
great if some of the London folks could perk up to this one.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SteveC
>Sent: 16 October 2008 6:45 PM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] URGENT: potential stand at Linux Expo Live
>
>We have potential to run a stand at
>
>   Linux Expo Live, next week, 23rd to 25th october at Olympia
>
>Anyone interested? Please co-ordinate here and then nominate someone
>to email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
>
>Best
>
>Steve
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Reminder - Manchester Mapping Weekend - 25/26 Oct

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A reminder that the Manchester Mapping Party is less than a week away. Its
great to see so many already signed up, but we can certainly do with some
more if we want to go "off cake" and trump the great success in Bradford
last month. All are welcome, experienced mappers and those wanting to try it
out alike.

We are based all weekend at the Marbella Café at Sunshine Studios on Newton
St where we will have free cakes and buns for all :-)

Loads of details on the wiki at:
"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Manchester/Mapping_Party";

See you there for more mapping mayhem!

Cheers

Andy


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[Talk-GB] Reminder - Manchester Mapping Party this weekend

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The Manchester Mapping party is just another couple of days away and we have
an absolutely awesome signup list on the wiki already. Thanks to everyone
who has already committed themselves to helping make the even one of the
best mapping parties ever.

We can always do with more though, especially on Sunday when the number of
mappers always drops somewhat at these events. Either day though we would
love to have you there for mapping, banter, tea, cakes and probably some
beer :-)

See you all there.

Cheers

Andy

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Manchester/Mapping_Party";




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[Talk-GB] Calling all Yahoo! tracers. Manchester, UK needs you before Saturday!

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Hi mappers :-)

Do you have an hour to spare before Saturday?
Would you like to be part of the Manchester Mapping Party [1] but can't get
there this weekend?

If so then it would be really cool if you could do a little tracing in
Manchester to help some new users try out this mapping thing. Hopefully we
can get a few more in Manchester hooked to help complete the city.

What we want to do is send some families and other new users out with a
loaned GPS and a roughly printed map to go and annotate with the street
names and extra POI data. 

Anywhere in the Manchester area would be cool (the cake is on the wiki page)
but feel free to wander outside that boundary). Ideally though stick closer
to the city centre as we suspect that most of the new users will be on foot.

If you can help out for an hour or more, then please add your name to the
Mapping Party page on the wiki under the Yahoo! tracing section together
with the cake number traced (or other area described) so that we can
"include" you in the weekend.

We would suggest you limit the tracing to simply marking the roads and
applying an unclassified tag plus any notable buildings or points of
interest that are obvious.

Thanks to everyone who can help out.

Cheers

Andy

[1] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Manchester/Mapping_Party";


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[Talk-GB] Manchester Mapping Party - Thank you

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The Manchester mapping party [1] was a great success. We had in all 40
different people attending. About 37 on Saturday and 19 on Sunday which was
brilliant. It was great to see 4 families involved. The children even
produced some of their own mapping which was remarkable and I hope to post
separately on that again later.

I do need to say a big thank you for those who came along and those who
helped make it all happen. Special thanks go to Simon Ward for all is help
with organising the venue and for Martin Dodge and the University of
Manchester Geography department for the loan of the LCD projector and other
equipment. Thanks go also to Janey Riley at the Marbella Café for a really
excellent venue and wonderful soup, curry, cakes and tea :-)

Finally I need to thank Cloudmade for their support. The availability of
their funding makes such a big difference in organising and running these
events.

If you have any traces from the weekend please upload them to OSM (tagged
with Manchester Mapping Party please) or send them in an email to Simon
Ward. Simon is doing an excellent job again getting an animated party render
done. Early results we saw yesterday looked wicked!

The next Cloudmade sponsored party is in just three weeks time over the
weekend of November 15/16th where we will be mapping and having fun in
Stratford-upon-Avon (Saturday) [2] and Evesham (Sunday) [3]. I'll be posting
final venue details for both days today or tomorrow. This next event is
ideally suited for couples and families. It will be very much about enjoying
the weekend in two of our most beautiful English towns. I look forward to
seeing some of you there :-)

Cheers

Andy

[1] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Manchester/Mapping_Party"; 
[2]
"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Stratford-upon-Avon/Mapping_Party"; 
[3] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Evesham/Mapping_Party";




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Re: [Talk-GB] BETT education tradeshow

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

I'll also bring this up in AOB at our OSMF meeting later

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OJ W
>Sent: 28 October 2008 12:55 PM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] BETT education tradeshow
>
>At LinuxExpo, OpenForumEurope offered to publicise OSM as part of
>their presence at the BETT event
>
>Is there someone intested in the education side of OSM who could
>contact them to discuss details?
>
>http://www.bettshow.com/
>http://www.openforumeurope.org/
>
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[Talk-GB] Mapping Party - Stratford-upon-Avon and Evesham. 15th & 16th November 2008

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The Stratford-upon-Avon and Evesham mapping parties, sponsored by Cloudmade,
are less than 3 weeks away and it would be great if you can make it to one
of both of them.

For Stratford on Saturday 15th November we have hired the Tiddington
Community Hall for the day. It's on the outskirts of the town where we can
provide refreshments for all and a family friendly location to meet and chat
about OpenStreetMap and more.

On Sunday 16th we will be basing ourselves at the Amber Café in Evesham
followed by lunch in one of the town’s lovely pubs.

While the focus as always is to try and map the target location (neither
have large populations) these two mapping events have been set up very much
with the family and friends in mind. Think tea and cakes rather than beer
and curry! There will be no internet access at either location. So come
along, bring the family and friends, children included, and make a day of
it, explore Shakespeare’s birthplace of Stratford-upon-Avon and/or Evesham
and have a great time with the rest of us. It will be fun!

Plus it would be nice to get them mapped before next years tourists turn up
;-)

Please sign up to show your support on the wiki pages:

More details as the next couple of weeks progress at…

Stratford
“http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Stratford-upon-Avon/Mapping_Party”

Evesham
“http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Evesham/Mapping_Party”

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] Birmingham - eleven hours on the eleven bus on the eleventh of november

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

For those who like a little difference to their mapping activities, how
about join those doing the 11 hour marathon on the No. 11 bus in Birmingham
and map all the bus stops and other POI's seen along the route.

http://elevenbus.co.uk/blog/

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] Reminder: Midlands User Group meeting, Birmingham. Thursday 6th Nov.

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

OSM Midlands User Group social meet this Thursday (6th) from 7:00pm

Where: Craven Arms, Upper Gough Street, Birmingham [1]. 
What: Social evening - plus more banter about the Birmingham map completion
and results from the micro mapping party this last weekend.

Note also to all those in the west midlands area who wish to keep up to date
with specific local information about OSM can now join the
talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list [2].  

[1]
"http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.475181&mlon=-1.903929&zoom=16&layers=
B000FTF"

[2] "http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands";

Cheers

Andy


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[Talk-GB] Reminder - Startford and Evesham mapping parties this coming weekend - Nov 15 & 16

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A reminder that the Stratford-upon-Avon and Evesham mapping parties,
sponsored by Cloudmade, are running over this coming weekend, 15th and 16th
November respectively.

The last two mapping parties in the series were a great success and a lot of
fun for everyone who attended. These I am sure will be no exception and we
would love to have you come along and socialise, do some mapping and
generally have an enjoyable time. Families and fiends welcome too.

Sign up on the wiki (links below). See you there.

Cheers

Andy

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Stratford-upon-Avon/Mapping_Party";

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Evesham/Mapping_Party";



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Re: [Talk-GB] Manchester Mapping Party Render

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Cool Simon, Thanks :-)

Which reminds me, I still have a few of the local walker contributions to
edit. They don't contain much new data though.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Ward
>Sent: 13 November 2008 7:48 AM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Manchester Mapping Party Render
>
>I was waiting until all edits had gone in, but I slacked a bit and
>haven't even got my own edits done yet.  Most are in though, and the
>rest appear to be highway: road, so I uploaded a render:
>
>http://blip.tv/file/1463212/
>
>(It's still converting to Flash Video as I write this, but the original
>MPEG file should be available.)
>
>Simon
>--
>A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
>simple system that works.-John Gall
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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>7:01 PM


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[Talk-GB] Final Reminder: Stratford Mapping Party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Final reminder that the Stratford-upon-Avon mapping party sponsored by
Cloudmade runs tomorrow with a further day of Mapping on Sunday in nearby
Evesham.

For Saturday the local village hall in Tiddington on the outskirts of town
is our venue where the tea urn will be running, the homemade soup is already
made and the cakes are soon to be baked. So bring the family and fiends and
have a great day out with a bit of mapping on the side.

The weather is looking pretty good, maybe cloudy but surprisingly mild for
the time or year.

Hope to see more of you there.

Cheers

Andy

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Stratford-upon-Avon/Mapping_Party";



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[Talk-GB] Mapping parties - Dec/Jan/Feb

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Hi OSMers,

As many of you will be award Cloudmade are generously sponsoring a monthly
mapping party at the moment and so far we have had great success in
Bradford, Manchester, Stratford-upon-Avon and Evesham.

Now that Winter is upon us I'm struggling a little to get the level of
interest for the next three parties on the following dates:

Dec 13/14, 2008
Jan 24/25, 2009
Feb 21/22, 2009

My provisional plans for December till now have been for a party that
weekend in Plymouth, which has a 250,000 population (similar to Bradford),
Yahoo imagery and very little mapping to date. However I'm struggling to
find people locally with availability that weekend. It's possible that the
run up to Christmas is getting in the way as well perhaps as a perceived
concern about the weather at this time of year (though last year we had good
dry weather all the way till Christmas).

As a result I thought I would open the debate up to the list to see if we
can indeed get enough interest for Plymouth or whether others have better
suggestions, and more importantly think we can get a decent show of
participants.

A few pointers from previous events:

1. Locations with an active Linux User Group are usually well supported.
It's these groups (and other computer groups) that appear to give us most
new users or who best spread the word.
2. We normally find that attendance on Sundays is 50% that of Saturdays
3. Participants prefer informal venues (where we can organise refreshments)
and access to wifi is definitely preferred. 
4. Being able to identify a clear target area or theme for the mapping.
Completing the target has been one of the successes of the first three
Cloudmade sponsored events.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has good contacts locally with their local
Linux or similar group and with a logical suggestion of a mapping location.
I'll be doing most of the legwork in setting up but local knowledge about
venues and any assistance will be gratefully received.

If anyone else is interested in Plymouth for the December event then please
also get in touch. If I see some interest from OSMer's I'll still push ahead
and get Plymouth on the map. As a fall back we can also Yahoo! trace it
first.

Cheers

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping parties - Dec/Jan/Feb

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. SteveC has also suggested a London
party that focuses on address data but I think we need to do a bit of work
on the format and methods for that before we blindly go and make arses of
ourselves.

I'll review the ideas over the weekend and suggest some more concrete
proposals by Monday.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk-gb-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Chadwick (email lists)
>Sent: 27 November 2008 4:32 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping parties - Dec/Jan/Feb
>
>> As a result I thought I would open the debate up to the list to see if we
>> can indeed get enough interest for Plymouth or whether others have better
>> suggestions, and more importantly think we can get a decent show of
>> participants.
>
>Cheadle, maybe. Still quite a bit of dodgy-looking data in there. Anyone
>know the extent of the original damage?
>
>Otherwise +1 for Reading, as others have suggested. Plymouth's a bit far
>for me, but doable. Jan/Feb better for me ATM.
>
>--
>Andrew Chadwick
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

David Earl wrote:
>Sent: 01 December 2008 3:10 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction
>
>On 01/12/2008 14:11, Brian Quinion wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm currently doing some work trying to generate postcode location
>> data for the UK using address lists and address lookup using OSM data
>> to supplement NPE.  So far it seems to work quite well with the
>> address lists that I have available to me (and coping quite well with
>> ambiguous road names) but I'm limited in my data sources and most of
>> the address data is fairly consistent in both format and quality.
>>
>> So, before I open the interface to the public, I'd like to test the
>> code with some lists provided by other people.
>>
>> Does anyone have, or know of, any address lists that I would be able
>> to use for this purpose?  Obviously it needs to be license compatible
>> with OSM (so please no lists generated from royal mail postcode data!)
>> and ideally I'm after data sets containing at least:
>>
>> street address (house name / number optional)
>> town / city
>> postcode
>>
>> formatted as CSV or TSV.  I'm specifically not after data containing
>> the names of individuals.
>>
>> Has anyone got any suggestions, or is willing to offer any data?  Even
>> personal address books would be useful for testing...
>
>Why not do it the other way round?
>
>You know all the 2,500 or so prefixes, and there are only 26 x 26 * 100
>combinations for the second part for each - about 200 million in all. If
>you feed these potential postcodes in quotes into Google UK over a long
>period with appropriate pauses so as not to get locked out, and look at
>the result for recognizable addresses (that's the tricky bit) as I'm
>doing in the Namefinder, you'd probably cover 75% of UK postcodes.
>
>Yes, its slow, but it's probably the biggest source there is. At one a
>second it would take about 6 years, but by enlisting 100 friends you'd
>do it in a month - less if it's possible to be more intelligent about it
>- for example, for the number part if there's no 14XX or 15XX I doubt
>there would be any 16s or above either, except for a few special cases.

I'm curious about this. Data scraped via Google is still subject to the
terms of the original page it references?

Cheers

Andy

>
>David
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Brian Quinion wrote:
>Sent: 01 December 2008 4:01 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: David Earl; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction
>
>Andy Robinson wrote:
>> David Earl wrote:
>>>On 01/12/2008 14:11, Brian Quinion wrote:
>>>> Has anyone got any suggestions, or is willing to offer any data?  Even
>>>> personal address books would be useful for testing...
>>>
>>>You know all the 2,500 or so prefixes, and there are only 26 x 26 * 100
>>>combinations for the second part for each - about 200 million in all. If
>>>you feed these potential postcodes in quotes into Google UK over a long
>>>period with appropriate pauses so as not to get locked out, and look at
>>>the result for recognizable addresses (that's the tricky bit) as I'm
>>>doing in the Namefinder, you'd probably cover 75% of UK postcodes.
>>>
>> I'm curious about this. Data scraped via Google is still subject to the
>> terms of the original page it references?
>
>I looked into this and came to the conclusion that you could probably
>claim 'fair use' as long as you pulled each address from a different
>website.  The trouble is that for most searches you end up on one of a
>small number of directory sites so doing any significant number is
>likely to end up as a database extraction.  The results are also
>mostly limited to business addresses.
>
>Probably it would be possible to filter it so not too many requests
>went to any one site, but that still leaves the possibility that they
>used royal mails postcode finder (or similar) to find their original
>data.  Across a large number of sites you could end up doing a
>database extraction from royal mail regardless.
>
>Address books and company mailing lists seemed like a preferable
>source and as long as individuals names are not included privacy
>shouldn't be an issue.
>

I'd noted that too. Business directory listings (Yell, Thomson etc) or house
price finders which are using copyright Land Registry data in the
background.

One source I am exploring is planning application listings produced by the
local authority. Which is I think were you had headed?

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Brian Quinion wrote:
>Sent: 01 December 2008 4:28 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Request for UK address lists for postcode extraction
>
>Andy Robinson wrote:
>> I'd noted that too. Business directory listings (Yell, Thomson etc) or
>house
>> price finders which are using copyright Land Registry data in the
>> background.
>>
>> One source I am exploring is planning application listings produced by
>the
>> local authority. Which is I think were you had headed?
>
>It's one of the options I hope to look at but my main idea was to get
>a tool that could do the extraction working and make it available to
>anyone who wants to provide data.  Anyone with a mailing list or
>address book is a potential data source - I just hope to make it easy
>for them to submit it.
>
>I just need some test data that I didn't write to make sure I'm not
>making silly assumptions! :-)
>

This any use?

"http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=40870&CONTENT_
ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=13170"

Cheers

Andy

>--
> Brian
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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>5:53 PM


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[Talk-GB] Mapping party in Reading, December 13 & 14

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Following my post last week I've decided to set the next Cloudmade sponsored
party for Reading on December 13 & 14th. I had by far the biggest response
for it so it seems logical bearing in mind the short time before it will
run.

I'll look at the other location suggestions for the New Year.

I'll be posting to the local LUG list etc, if others who know the area can
promote to other groups that would be helpful too. Wiki page will be up
later today (I'll post an update).

I'm also interested in ideas for a venue, preferably not a café but
somewhere with a room that has internet access and the ability to lay on
refreshments. let me know if you have any ideas. I'll be looking also and
will want to firm up by the weekend.

Cheers and look forward to seeing you there :-)

Cheers

Andy 




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[Talk-GB] Reminder. Midlands User Group social in Birmingham on Thursday Dec 4th

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Just a reminder that the next MUG social is this Thursday evening in central
Birmingham. Link below.

Look forward to seeing you there.

Cheers

Andy

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Midlands%2C_UK_User_Group#Next_Group
_Meet-ups"


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[Talk-GB] Reading mapping party this weekend 13/14 Dec

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The Reading mapping party this weekend will be hosted in Meeting Room 1 at
RISC (Reading International Solidarity Centre) http://www.risc.org.uk
Thanks to Rob White for the suggestion. I'll put full details up on the wiki
with the cake this evening. I'll be there from 9am Saturday (come at 10am if
you don't want to help set up) and access is through the back entrance (top
of the car park ramp) if the front of the building is not open.

Look forwards to seeing lots of people there.

Cheers

Andy 


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Re: [Talk-GB] Reading mapping party this weekend 13/14 Dec

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The bare bones of the wiki page is up:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Reading/Mapping_Party

Will sort the cake later. Please add useful info to the wiki page though.

oh, and add you name please if you can make it.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: Tom Chance [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: 11 December 2008 12:17 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Reading mapping party this weekend 13/14 Dec
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:57:51 -, "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The Reading mapping party this weekend will be hosted in Meeting Room 1
>at
>> RISC (Reading International Solidarity Centre) http://www.risc.org.uk
>
>Great! I'll probably turn up on Saturday for the afternoon at least, I have
>some errands to run in the morning. I won't have a bike so I might be
>cheeky and just do some POI infill in my old mapping haunts - the town
>centre and the main University campus.
>
>Tom
>


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[Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A quick scoot around our green and pleasant land reveals a number of really
unloved places (Why are so many in Lincolnshire!). We need ideas on how to
get these places on the map, whether it be motivating the natives or sending
in the OSM swat teams to raise the profile. I'd like to hear your crazy as
well as sensible ideas :-)

In no particular order:

Scunthorpe
Grimsby
Lincoln
Doncaster
Darlington
Middlesbrough
Sunderland
Perth
Bolton
Northampton
Newport
Plymouth
Weymouth

I'm sure you can spot plenty of others too.

Cheers

Andy 




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Re: [Talk-GB] London Olympics

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Tom Chance wrote:
>Sent: 12 December 2008 11:01 AM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] London Olympics
>
>
>On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:23:41 -0000, "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)"
> wrote:
>> Which brings us to another point. We have nearly 4 years to map all the
>> Olympic venues.
>
>I wonder if there's scope to do some interesting maps that nobody else will
>provide as well / quickly? Or to encourage others to use OSM for their
>ends?
>
>For example:
>
>- first to have it all on the map with good detail
>- great information and routing for cyclists and pedestrians
>- 'alternative' visitor info like genuinely sustainable places to eat,
>perhaps link up with the LA21 Green Map people
>
>There will be lots of organisations who might use OSM maps in reports / web
>sites coming up if we alert them, I know lots of them through work as we
>wrote the sustainability strategy and political activity (e.g. London21,
>nef, WWF, Green Party, London Citizens). I'm sure we collectively know
>loads of others.
>
>Tom

If we want to compete we will have to be smart. The big Olympic
corporate/sponsorship engine will start to roll soon and I'm sure that will
include maps with everything from Bank cashpoints, burger bars and soft
drinks stalls, all courtesy of sponsorship and deep corporate pockets. They
will be handing out "free" maps, probably every visitor and competitor will
get one. They will undoubtedly look slick and have had some considerable
money spent on their format. The same will apply I'm sure to the online
official versions.

This is the online map for Beijing for inspiration.

http://en.beijing2008.cn/emap/

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] London Olympics - Was: Mapping the unloved and unwashed

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Dave Stubbs wrote:
>Sent: 12 December 2008 9:52 AM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
>
>2008/12/11 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) :
>> A quick scoot around our green and pleasant land reveals a number of
>really
>> unloved places (Why are so many in Lincolnshire!). We need ideas on how
>to
>> get these places on the map, whether it be motivating the natives or
>sending
>> in the OSM swat teams to raise the profile. I'd like to hear your crazy
>as
>> well as sensible ideas :-)
>>
>> Weymouth
>
>
>Get Yahoo! to invest what little money they have left in some
>satellite imagery for Weymouth. They might just get convinced if you
>point out it's an Olympic venue for 2012. :-)
>
>Dave
>


Which brings us to another point. We have nearly 4 years to map all the
Olympic venues. The basis of what we have achieved in the last 4 years its
almost certain we will have them all covered, but it might be a good idea to
start a wiki page that lists them all so that locals can focus on what the
map needs to show for the Olympic visitors. We have a real opportunity to be
a streak ahead of the pack here.

Here's a stub:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_Olympics_Venues

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Proposed projects are something I'm keen to see mapped. Once a feature
reaches the planning application stage I think we should be prepared to
document it. The principal issue with this is of course that most planning
applications go hand in hand with an OS derived map/plan. Thus representing
the planning application details in OSM isn't going to particularly
accurate. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

I'd suggest a tag of "planning" for an object that has gone out for
consultation. Once its approved it could be changed to "approved" and then
finally changed to "construction" once work gets underway.

Major highway projects have always been shown on conventional maps before
they have been built so why would we be any different. It also opens up our
mapping for some more uses.

For features with a previous use (eg abandoned stations) I have more of as
problem at this juncture of the project. At some point I'd really like to be
able to record some historical map data but I don't feel we have the tools
and editing visualisation to do it properly at the moment. I also have a big
concern about how old features which have now been lost (no visual
representation) can reside with objects that are at the same location today.
In some cases, especially for roads, parts of old may be incorporated into
the present.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller
>Sent: 18 December 2008 10:52 AM
>To: Steve Chilton
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
>
>
>On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:03, Steve Chilton wrote:
>
>> Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a
>> UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking
>> purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server.
>> It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html
>> No particular plans to enhance it or add details.
>> It is just a companion to:
>http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html
>> which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file.
>>
>
>Great stuff (and great minds!). Is there an agreed (or common)
>approach to tagging abandoned/dismantled railway stations? There isn't
>anything in map features about it, but it would be great content to
>have in there in OSM, particularly for those with an interest in
>historical railways. To render historical stations on these maps would
>encourage contributors (as in 'render and they will come').
>
>What about proposed lines and stations? There are a number of these in
>the UK and again it would be very useful to be able to see where they
>were. railway=construction construction=rail? railway=proposed
>proposed=rail?
>
>On the subject of historical railways, can one use start-date and end-
>date attributes to animate the life of the UK's railway network,
>watching it growing a shrinking over the years. There may be some
>complex cases where a line opened, closed and was then re-opened, but
>we could leave that for now in order to get the basic information in.
>
>Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to
>be an emerging consensus  for showing the number of tracks, typically
>1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a
>different style for single track working and multi-track, typically
>using a different symbol.
>
>How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections
>of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly
>encouraged if it for other areas.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Peter
>
>> Cheers
>> STEVE
>>
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Peter Miller wrote:
>Sent: 18 December 2008 11:55 AM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: 'Peter Miller'; 'Steve Chilton'; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
>
>
>On 18 Dec 2008, at 11:12, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:
>>
>> For features with a previous use (eg abandoned stations) I have more
>> of as
>> problem at this juncture of the project. At some point I'd really
>> like to be
>> able to record some historical map data but I don't feel we have the
>> tools
>> and editing visualisation to do it properly at the moment. I also
>> have a big
>> concern about how old features which have now been lost (no visual
>> representation) can reside with objects that are at the same
>> location today.
>> In some cases, especially for roads, parts of old may be
>> incorporated into
>> the present.
>>
>
>Ok, so the only abandoned stations that should be included are ones
>where the actual station still exists, even if it has been re-
>purposed. An abandoned station with the old platform visible and
>possibly a derelict building could be shown as
>railway=abandoned_station.  A re-purposed station could possibly be
>tagged as building=restaurant and railway=abandoned_station?
>
>If all physical evidence of the station has gone then it should not be
>marked.
>
>Should the same rules apply to railway lines and to other historical
>features - ie if they have completely gone then they should not be
>marked?
>
>A railway line that is now a footpath, or a cycle path or even an
>identifiable strip of wildlife and tress should be shown but if it is
>now plowed fields then it should not be shown?

That's the view I take for the present time. But where a footpath or other
feature makes use of the original feature then I would definitely add a tag
that explains the features former use, that's useful data. Where the feature
has been completely lost (ploughed field, buried Archaeological site etc)
then we need more tools and methods of layering before we can realistically
expect contributors to work with the data, it's simply too confusing
otherwise.

Cheers

Andy

>
>
>Peter
>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>>> boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller
>>> Sent: 18 December 2008 10:52 AM
>>> To: Steve Chilton
>>> Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>>> Subject: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:03, Steve Chilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a
>>>> UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking
>>>> purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server.
>>>> It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html
>>>> No particular plans to enhance it or add details.
>>>> It is just a companion to:
>>> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html
>>>> which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Great stuff (and great minds!). Is there an agreed (or common)
>>> approach to tagging abandoned/dismantled railway stations? There
>>> isn't
>>> anything in map features about it, but it would be great content to
>>> have in there in OSM, particularly for those with an interest in
>>> historical railways. To render historical stations on these maps
>>> would
>>> encourage contributors (as in 'render and they will come').
>>>
>>> What about proposed lines and stations? There are a number of these
>>> in
>>> the UK and again it would be very useful to be able to see where they
>>> were. railway=construction construction=rail? railway=proposed
>>> proposed=rail?
>>>
>>> On the subject of historical railways, can one use start-date and
>>> end-
>>> date attributes to animate the life of the UK's railway network,
>>> watching it growing a shrinking over the years. There may be some
>>> complex cases where a line opened, closed and was then re-opened, but
>>> we could leave that for now in order to get the basic information in.
>>>
>>> Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to
>>> be an emerging consensus  for showing the number of tracks, typically
>>> 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The renderin

[Talk-GB] Announcement: Second City, Birmingham, and its surrounds completed

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

It is with great pleasure, and not just a little excitement, that I can
announce that the mappers in Birmingham having set the task of completing
the whole of the city by Christmas have achieved just that.

"http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.4708&lon=-1.8972&zoom=12&layers=0B00FT
F"

Birmingham and the area inside the major motorways which has been mapped,
including Solihull and Sutton Coldfield, has a population of approximately
1.25 million. The achievement is somewhat similar to that of Hamburg,
announced a few weeks ago. The major difference is that Birmingham does not
have any Yahoo! aerial imagery, thus the whole of Birmingham has been mapped
by GPS and many hours of cycling, walking and driving by the major
contributors.

About 100 mappers have been involved in completing the whole work, although
the vast majority has been contributed by just a handful of OSMers. The list
of the major contributors can be found on the mappa mercia wiki page. 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia

I'd like to say a specific thank you to Brian Prangle (brianboru) and
Christoph Böhme (Xoff) who joined me over the last weeks to complete the
Christmas target, they weren't the only ones, but without their efforts we
would never have made it!

As a group (the OSM Midlands User Group (MUG)) we are planning how to
promote the Birmingham map and will be meeting at our monthly social to
discuss ideas on January 15th. We have jointly lots of interesting ideas to
explore, some of which are on the wiki. After the 15th Jan we plan to put
out a wider media release.

Of course the mapping work doesn't end here. We still have plenty of POI,
verification and address data to add in Birmingham plus there is still much
work to be done in the coming year to complete the "Black Country", Walsall
and the area to the west of the M5.

Cheers and Happy Christmas

Andy (blackadder)


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[Talk-GB] Black Country mapping party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Folks,

I've had a very encouraging short dialogue with Tom Watson, MP for West
Bromwich East and Minister for Digital Engagement. He's clearly supportive
of OSM and I mentioned that we would probably have a mapping party in the
Spring centred on the Black Country. He's offered to assist with a Sandwell
venue and suggested The Public (http://www.thepublic.com/) which would be an
awesome venue to host a mapping party at, especially as it sits slap bang in
the centre of unmapped territory.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.5193&mlon=-1.9925&zoom=14

The Public would also be a great location to showcase our completed
Birmingham map.

We've agreed to communicate again in the New Year.

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Announcement: Hull completed

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Awesome work Chris, join the small club of now ex mappers ;-)

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Chris Hill
>Sent: 24 December 2008 10:58 AM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Announcement: Hull completed
>
>I would like to announce that the fine city of Kingston Upon Hull (Hull
>to its friends and 'Ull to its locals) has all its public roads and many
>of its amenities completed.  Almost all of the city was mapped by Jean
>and me by driving or walking around it.  We have taken about 10,000
>photos (my camera rolled its number over about a month ago) and visited
>every single public road in the city.  We've added schools, cemeteries,
>pubs, allotments, parks and some shops all by visiting them with a GPS
>and camera - the Y! images are only lo-res and have been useful only for
>large scale stuff like some railways, waterways and the docks.
>
>We have seen the city in a new light - some of it is run down, but much
>of it is doing very nicely. I have enjoyed the experience greatly
>(though some housing estates have been a bore) and now I look forward to
>helping complete the East Riding of Yorkshire next year.
>
>The latest map is:
>http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.7673&lon=-
>0.3378&zoom=13&layers=0B00FTF
>0.3378&zoom=13&layers=0B00FTF>
>
>Our blog of the experience is:
>http://chris-osm.blogspot.com/ which also is on the planet-osm digest.
>http://blogs.openstreetmap.org/
>
>Cheers,
>Chris
>
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[Talk-GB] London to Brighton Bike Ride Sunday 21st June 2009

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Having successfully taken part in the London to Brighton Bike Ride last
year, and enjoyed it thoroughly, I thought I would do it again this year.

I can set up a priority team online this year but I need to get an idea of
how many other OSMers might be interested in joining in an OSM team again
before I can set up the team.

Last year 4 of us rode down together and raised around £1000 for the BHF so
it was well worthwhile.

The wiki page is here:
“http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_to_Brighton_Bike_Ride”

If you are interested, please email me directly or add your name to the wiki
page. I’ll then set up the priority team and email out an invite to those
interested to enable early registration.

Priority registration takes place from now until the end of Feb. Then the
masses get a chance to register. By registering early we get the choice of
start time.

Cheers

Andy





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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Lincolnshire is still on my list for 2009 and I'm still very much hoping to
be running a mapping party each month through the year. Luton is currently
on the calendar for March, however the date now conflicts with the API
upgrade so I'm rethinking things. Following that April will I hope be a
Black Country event tying in with some offers there. After that it depends
upon funding, ie whether Cloudmade or others continue to put more funds
together.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: twai...@gmail.com [mailto:twai...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Brian
>Quinion
>Sent: 10 February 2009 5:13 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; talk-gb-theno...@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping the unloved and unwashed
>
>Has anyone made any plans for mapping parties for any of the unloved
>north yet?  After cycling up and down the hilly climbs of Sheffield I
>quite fancy mapping somewhere flat like Lincolnshire :-)
>
>I've checked the wiki but didn't notice anything - so are their any
>unannounced plans in progress?
>
>--
> Brian
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1942 - Release Date: 02/09/09
>17:40:00


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Re: [Talk-GB] London's Shortest Street

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

In Birmingham we have A B Row, which while not being perhaps the shortest
street (though it is exceedingly short) it is the shortest name. However
although it currently sits on the map the whole area (Birmingham East Side)
is under demolition/redevelopment and so what will happen to one of
Birmingham's most famous streets I am not sure:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.484687&lon=-1.884495&zoom=18&layers=B00
0FTF

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of David Earl
>Sent: 10 February 2009 2:03 PM
>To: osm-gb
>Subject: [Talk-GB] London's Shortest Street
>
>According to a friend of mine's blog, London's shortest street is
>Clennam Street in SE1, though the first blog post is about another very
>short street, Leigh Hunt Street, nearby:
>
>http://realcycling.blogspot.com/2009/02/londons-secret-zen-street.html
>http://realcycling.blogspot.com/2009/02/londons-shortest-streets.html
>
>Leigh Hunt Street is on OSM (unlike other maps apparently), but is
>connected to Quilip Street (which is incompletely tagged so doesn't
>render properly), and is also so short there's no label!
>
>Clennam Street is not on OSM, which is shame if the street has this
>dubious honour of being the shortest.
>
>Not living anywhere near, I wonder if someone nearer might like to pop
>round to get London's Shortest Streets on the map!
>
>Rob documents a few other streets of significance on Google map pins as
>well in the second post. Brydges Place is on OSM but I haven't checked
>the others.
>
>David
>
>
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[Talk-GB] Birmingham Social - reminder for Thursday 5th March

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Reminder of the monthly OSM Social in Birmingham this week.

>From 7pm, March 5th 2009 at the Queens Arms, Newhall St, Birmingham

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.4836&mlon=-1.9064&zoom=17

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Experiences after "completing" an area

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Tom Chance wrote:
>Sent: 04 March 2009 9:45 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Experiences after "completing" an area
>
>Hi there,
>
>Now that we are getting somewhere with our map of Sutton:
>http://tom.acrewoods.net/blog/2009/mar/sutton-green-map-update
>
>I'm thinking about promoting its use more widely. I've done some work with
>voluntary sector organisations, but I'd be interested to hear from people
>in
>Birmingham, Cambridge, etc.
>
>Have your web sites received much attention?
>
>Have you had much interest from the press / potential users /
>collaborators?

Birmingham group meets tonight. Will discuss and give some feedback
afterwards. 

We did get some local press interest following the press release and the odd
article written here and there. Also several of the local Birmingham
bloggers pushed it out. We have a radio interview lined up for next month.

My initial view is that it takes time and effort to get the map noticed and
it's important to find local groups who are enthusiastic enough about what
has been achieved to help spread the word. Appealing to the general public
is more difficult, but something we are exploring.

Cheers

Andy


>
>Regards,
>Tom
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Hello from Preston

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Luke Bosman wrote:
>Sent: 10 March 2009 3:19 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Hello from Preston
>
>Hi,
>
>I've been uploading tracks and editing roads around Preston and the Ribble
>Valley for 15 months now and I just thought I'd delurk.
>
>So. 
>
>Cheers,
>Luke
>
>--
>Lots of planets have a north.


Welcome :-)

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Brewery tagging

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

David Earl wrote:
>Sent: 18 March 2009 10:43 AM
>To: Ed Loach
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Brewery tagging
>
>On 18/03/2009 10:36, Ed Loach wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Does anyone have suggestions on how best to tag breweries ...
>>
>> one in Bury St Edmunds is tagged landuse=industrial (with a visitor
>> centre attraction).
>
>That was me. It really is a factory, so I felt industrial was
>appropriate. Is there something special about beer (in geographical
>terms) - for example, would there need to be a special designation for a
>factory making stockings or a printing works?
>
>In that sense it's a bit like shop=... We could either say what kind of
>factory something is, or just group them all under one heading, but I
>don't really see that modern brewing has something about it that makes
>is individually special over any other industrial process.

yeah, the tags landuse=industrial and industrial=brewing works for me


Cheers

Andy>



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[Talk-GB] Black Country Mapping Party - April 4 & 5

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The next Cloudmade sponsored mapping party will be in the heart of the Black
Country hosted at "The Public" in West Bromwich on April 4/5.

This party will be the main kick-off event in our attempt to map the
remaining 284 segments of the cake for the wider Black Country area by
Christmas this year. A tall order, maybe, but with help definitely doable.

The event has the support of local MP and Minister for Digital Engagement
Tom Watson, who has helped facilitate our use of "The Public" as a venue.
Tom has links with many local groups and is keen to see local involvement in
the map, this we need as many experienced OSMers as possible to help the
event run smoothly and ensure everyone has a lot of fun. We also hope to see
Tom along trying out mapping for himself sometime over the weekend.

And to help with making the weekend a lot of fun, and whet your apetite for
mapping, the first West Bromwich Real Ale Festival is running at The Public
over the same weekend. Couture cafe bar is hosting it, there will be a
choice of 18 real ales and 2 ciders. Free live music during the festival is
being sponsored by Major Key Studios and Fairbright Group, the Trevor Burton
Band and Tipitina are two of the acts due to appear at the festival. There
will be a bouncy castle for children on the town square and families and
children are most welcome. So fun for all!

More to follow as organisation proceeds at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia/Black_Country

Please sign up on the page if you are coming.

Cheers

Andy




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Re: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Nice work :-)

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andrew M. Bishop
>Sent: 22 March 2009 10:23 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Route planner using UK OSM data
>
>I have been a contributor to OpenStreetMap for a while now and
>recently decided to make use of some of the collected data rather than
>just adding to it.
>
>I decided that what would be fun to implement is a routing algorithm
>that can find the best (shortest or quickest) route between any two
>OSM highway nodes.  I know that there are other routing algorithms
>available but this started as an intellectual exercise so I developed
>my own.  It seemed to work so I added a fancy web front end to it and
>put it on a server.
>
>Having the complete planet routable was infeasible so I have just
>included the data for Ireland and Great Britain.
>
>You can select from any of the major OSM transport types (foot,
>bicycle, horse, motorbike, motorcar, goods, hgv, psv).  For each of
>the OSM highway types (motorway, trunk, primary, secondary, tertiary,
>unclassified, residential, service, track, bridleway, cycleway,
>footway) you can select whether to use them and if so what speed
>limit.  Restrictions on one-way streets, weight, height, width and
>length are also options.
>
>The router takes into account private/public/permissive restrictions
>on highways as well as tagged speed limits.  What it doesn't do is
>barriers (gates, bollards) and turn restriction relations (which I
>have heard about but never seen).
>
>
>The router itself (requires JavaScript for the map etc):
>
>http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/router.html
>
>A description of the algorithm:
>
>http://www.gedanken.org.uk/mapping/router/
>
>--
>Andrew.
>--
>Andrew M. Bishop a...@gedanken.demon.co.uk
>
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[Talk-GB] reminder, Black Country Mapping Party next weekend - April 4/5

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A reminder to all that a fun mapping party will be underway next weekend in
the heart of the Black Country. Already a good showing it would be great to
see some more of the regular faces too :-)

The event is being held from 10:00am on Saturday 4th and Sunday 5th April at
"The Public" in West Bromwich, Sandwell, which is an awesome new building in
its own right, well worth a visit. Public wifi is available so come and hack
if you aren't into the mapping itself.

There just happens to be a beer festival on at the same time so should be a
lot of fun on Saturday evening too.

More details:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia/Black_Country

Please add your name if you think you are coming so that we can cater for
teas/coffee's etc.

See you there

Cheers

Andy

ps. We also have our monthly social meet in Birmingham on Thursday April 2nd
from 7pm.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Midlands%2C_UK_User_Group





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[Talk-GB] Reminder, Birmingham Social evening this Thursday 2nd April

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Reminder that the next Birmingham Social evening is this Thursday 2nd April
at the Queens Arms, Newhall St, Birmingham. From 7pm.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=52.4836&mlon=-1.9064&zoom=17

We will have our new Birmingham and Solihull map on show
http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/

See you there,

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] Exhibition for Construction and Engineering Surveying

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

If anyone is in and around York Racecourse on 22 or 23 April then you might
think to tout OSM around to some of the exhibitors at XCES. It would be
useful to get some contact names for some of these organisations there. I
might have gone myself but I'm not available those two days. 

http://asp.artegis.com/xces/2009

It's a trade thing but just stick OpenStreetMap on the registration form.

Cheers

Andy


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[Talk-GB] OSM Birmingham & Solihull limited edition map now on sale

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

To celebrate the completion of base mapping for the city of Birmingham, UK
we, being the local OSMers here, have had a map printed to show of our
endeavours.

The print run for Edition 1 was limited to just 50 and 10 have already gone
to those who helped make it all happen. The rest we would like to offer for
sale to cover the cost of printing the batch.

The map is basically this one linked below but printed as a 300dpi raster
TIF rather than the PDF, however we haven’t lost any definition, it’s a
great map:
http://ajr.hopto.org/osm/MappaMerciaBrumEd1.pdf (warning 4MB over a slow
connection)

It's printed on A0 matt poster paper to produce a map that is 841mm x
1189mm. They have then been hand folded to make a traditional folded map
much like an Ordnance Survey map but without the card cover. More details
here:

http://blog.mappa-mercia.org/2009/03/birmingham-solihull-map-now-in-print.ht
ml

Each map of the 40 left is numbered starting at 11.

The price will be £8 each plus P&P at cost depending upon where it's going.

If you are interested please email me at my mappa-mercia email address
a...@mappa-mercia.org with details of how many you would like and where they
need to go, I'll then respond with the total price inc P&P and details of
how to pay. Orders will be processed on a first come first served basis.

Once they are all gone that’s it. If it is successful we will probably do a
further map next year after we complete the Black Country and Coventry.

Cheers

Andy

For more about mappa-mercia see www.mappa-mercia.org




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Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Tom Hughes wrote:
>Sent: 18 May 2009 10:34 AM
>To: Ed Loach
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
>
>Ed Loach wrote:
>>> I did 29 and I think Ollie was doing 28 yesterday, unless he
>>> changed his
>>> mind about what to do?
>>
>> I just had a quick look and Potlatch doesn't show any GPS traces for
>> their area in 28 yet. I did notice you've drawn a way nearby in 29
>> with no tags (I'd guess highway=service?):
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34623821
>
>Yep, that should be service. I've fixed it now.
>
>I also think we need to decide where tertiary should be used, as there's
>quite a difference between different blocks at the moment - most don't
>have any but some have loads.
>
>My personal opinion was that we should use tertiary for any grid roads
>that aren't primary/secondary and not use it at all within the blocks in
>general - just use unclassified for the more major roads in the blocks.

+1, I was going to raise this today too.

Cheers

Andy

>
>What do other people think?
>
>Tom
>
>--
>Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
>http://www.compton.nu/
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Ed Loach wrote:
>Sent: 18 May 2009 8:57 AM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
>
>It's "kick self" time. I know some people who live in Milton Keynes that I
>invited to join us, but they couldn't as they were due to leave for holiday
>last Friday. What I forgot to do is look up where in MK they live before
>the weekend so I could map their area for them, and I think they live just
>in cake slice 28 near the border with 29 and I don't think anyone did that
>bit (having shaded in my cake map based on the section about traces that
>has appeared at the top of the wiki page).
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MK_Mapping_Party
>
>Perhaps I'll just have to find an excuse to visit them...
>
>Looking at the "UK mapping priorities" page which has been updated
>recently, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Mapping_Priorities
>I suspect Telford is another large "new town" that could do with a party
>organising. Cannock has a higher score and is even less complete, but from
>what I remember of the town it is fairly small so would perhaps form a
>first day of a two town mapping weekend, if there is another nearby that
>also needs some work. Perhaps stretch the area out towards Chasetown, or
>outwards to Hednesford/Cheslyn Hay. I could attend either (coordinating it
>with a visit to parents in Wolverhampton) so long as I've not already got
>something booked (which assuming we try not to clash mapping parties within
>the UK or with state of the map means August earliest, it seems).

Telford is definitely needing to be hit. Cannock and its surrounding area we
can probably leave to us Midlands folks as some of it will get ticked off as
part of the wider Black Country work. I'll probably complete Lichfield this
year too.

Stoke needs work but a party will probably happen there in July, watch the
wiki for that.

Northampton is another location needing urgent love.

I'm expecting to organise another 6 parties through the rest of this year so
people's preference for locations please shout up again.

A couple of areas that still sit on my list from last year are the South
West (perhaps Cornwall) and Lincolnshire for the cyclists. I also thought a
Mapping Day (UK or world wide?) with everyone converging on a hill in the
peak district might be a fun thing to do.

Other places I think need some help include the M65 corridor (Blackburn and
Burnley)

Dudley (part of the Black Country push)

Plymouth (Has Y! but needs love)

West Manchester (Eccles!)

What is clear is that if we get the numbers up towards 20 each time then we
really do get a lot done.


Cheers

Andy

>
>Ed
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Andy Allan [mailto:gravityst...@gmail.com] wrote:
>Sent: 18 May 2009 11:07 AM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: Ed Loach; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MK mapping party
>
>On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
> wrote:
>
>> I'm expecting to organise another 6 parties through the rest of this year
>so
>> people's preference for locations please shout up again.
>
>Scotland! I was just browsing around on z10 (i.e. the last level
>before vmap0 built-up areas disappear) and was somewhat dismayed to
>find that even towns big enough for vmap0 don't even have a place=town
>node in them yet (c.f. Mallaig)! The main cities are progressing, but
>there's lots of areas that could do with some TLC.
>
>South of the M8 - the Ardrossan/Prestwick/Kilmarnok/Ayr/Troon arc,
>Stranraer, Dumfries, Berwick (OK technically that's in England)
>North of the M8 - some places have started but might need some help,
>like Falkrik Stirling and Perth
>


I get the message, clearly our Scottish folk are feeling unloved too ;-)

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Mapping Party: King's Lynn, Norfolk UK June 27th

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Oooh, Kings Lynn was my old knocking ground from college days and my parents
are just 15 miles away. Plenty around that area still to map. Will see if I
can massage it into my schedule.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of David Earl
>Sent: 26 May 2009 2:21 PM
>To: osm-gb; osm
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Mapping Party: King's Lynn, Norfolk UK June 27th
>
>For those not subscribed to talk-gb-midanglia who may be interested: I'm
>organising a mapping party for King's Lynn, West Norfolk on June 27th.
>See:
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Norfolk/King's_Lynn_and_West_Norfolk/Map
>pingParty2009-06
>
>David
>
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[Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Sustrans GIS department has permitted OSM to have the list of their
Millennium Mileposts (and also Artwork - coming later) that exists on the
National_Cycle_Network. The full listing can be found in the wiki table
linked below. Sustrans do not have accurate locations for their mileposts
and art so are interested in data gathered by OSM contributors.

 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Sustrans_Milep
osts_and_Artwork

 

Cheers

 

Andy

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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

David Earl wrote:
>Sent: 08 June 2009 1:25 PM
>To: Ed Loach; osm-gb
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art
>
>On 08/06/2009 13:06, Ed Loach wrote:
>> Jonathan asked:
>>
>>  > Do we have an existing tagging scheme for these?
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_National_Cycl
>e_Network#Tagging_information
>
>That seems to be just mile posts. What about tagging the artwork?
>
>What about linear artwork? This one
>   http://cambridge.cyclestreets.net/location/10548/
>stretches out along the path for several hundred metres (and the solar
>system artwork on the York to Selby path is placed intermittently over a
>long distance I believe).

Yes, need to think about how the artwork is tagged. Let's see what Sustrans
send me in terms of detail. That will help suggest tagging.

Cheers

Andy

>
>David
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Ed Loach wrote:
>Sent: 08 June 2009 3:06 PM
>To: 'Dave Stubbs'
>Cc: 'OSM GB Talk'
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art
>
>Dave wrote:
>
>> There's
>> already quite a lot in there, but not with sustrans refs (I
>> don't even
>> know if these can be found on the mileposts themselves).
>
>It's a good point. If the refs aren't on the posts, how are we to
>tell MP814, MP815 and MP816 apart - they're all on the wiki page as
>type Rowe, and location Chelmsford-Essex. Or can we choose?
>(Similarly MP106 and MP603 that are both Mills in Hatfield, three
>Mills posts in March, five Rowe three Mills and two McColl in
>Peterborough and I'm sure many other similar examples).
>
>Ed
>


No, the refs are not on the posts anywhere as far as I know, but I have the
approx locations of the mileposts from Sustrans so I can confirm the correct
order along a route if anyone needs assistance. I've just sorted out the
ones in and south of Stratford-upon-Avon in this manner.

Cheers

Andy
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Sustrans Artwork list now available:

"http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Sustrans_Artw
ork"

You will see that art that has a spread location has a alpha reference for
each part after the reference number. Reorder the table by sustrans_ref to
see it better as by default the table is now ordered by location.

If anyone struggles to work out what an item is, then I may be able to
narrow it down if you send me the lat/lon you have collected for it.

The bottom of the table has a fair number of pieces with no location.
Sustrans don't have any location for these. Treasure hunt time?

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of David Earl
>Sent: 08 June 2009 1:25 PM
>To: Ed Loach; osm-gb
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Sustrans National Cycle Network Mileposts and Art
>
>On 08/06/2009 13:06, Ed Loach wrote:
>> Jonathan asked:
>>
>>  > Do we have an existing tagging scheme for these?
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_National_Cycl
>e_Network#Tagging_information
>
>That seems to be just mile posts. What about tagging the artwork?
>
>What about linear artwork? This one
>   http://cambridge.cyclestreets.net/location/10548/
>stretches out along the path for several hundred metres (and the solar
>system artwork on the York to Selby path is placed intermittently over a
>long distance I believe).
>
>David
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Vandalism in Kent/London area

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

The history for each object, specifically the nodes, will tell you where
items need to revert to. I've also copied data@ in on this email so that if
the problem should escalate (hopefully is just someone not realising they
were messing with the live data) it can be tracked.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller
>Sent: 11 June 2009 11:39 PM
>To: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Vandalism in Kent/London area
>
>
>I have found a number of damaged road and rail links done by this user
>who registered on June 2nd and has done a number of edits since then:
>http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/liam123
>
>I removed a spurious railway line in London yesterday and also
>corrected the position of a roundabout. I messaged him 24 hours ago
>asking politely if it was a mistake or finger trouble without any
>response.
>
>Today I have corrected further damage, this time to sections of the
>M20 and HS1 although I have not checked all of the changes and am not,
>of course sure what it looked like exactly before the damage. Thurrock
>Railway station has been moved into the Thames. I haven't moved it
>back because I don't know where it should be.
>
>Can I suggest that others go though the rest of his work and consider
>some cunning manual reversion if necessary?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>
>Peter
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] UKUUG - Summer 2009 - Birmingham

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

I'm not available unfortunately.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: Ciarán Mooney [mailto:general.moo...@googlemail.com]
>Sent: 23 June 2009 1:26 PM
>To: talk; talk-gb-westmidlands; talk-gb; shaun; Andy Robinson (blackadder-
>lists)
>Subject: UKUUG - Summer 2009 - Birmingham
>
>Hi,
>
>UKUUG are looking for a talk about OSM for their Summer 2009
>conference in Birmingham, I was the go-to-guy, however I may not be
>the best person to present to the technical audience that are likely
>to attend.
>
>Is anyone else willing to do a talk.
>
>Andy and Shaun : As I didn't hear anything concrete, I thought it best
>to open it to a wider audience.
>
>Ciarán
>
>
>-- Forwarded message --
>From: Jane Morrison 
>Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:25:14 +0100
>Subject: UKUUG - Summer 2009 - Birmingham
>To: general.moo...@googlemail.com
>
>
>
>Hi Ciaran
>
>I understand from Niall Mansfield / John Pinner  that you are kindly
>providing
>a presentation at our forthcoming Summer Conference in Birmingham, (Sat 8th
>&
>Sun 9th August).
>
>Talk title: 'Open Street Map'
>
>Please can you provide me with a talk abstract and biography for our web
>site
>as soon as possible please.
>
>I trust that you have funding for your travel & B&B.
>
>With regard to B&B we advise you to look on our web site regarding
>various hotel options - see:
>
>http://summer2009.ukuug.org/Accommodation
>
>Of course as a speaker you get a free place at the Conference for Saturday
>&
>Sunday.
>
>Please confirm that you require a ticket for our Conference Dinner on
>Saturday evening (free to speakers).
>
>The dinner will be held at the Novotel Hotel - The Novotel is just a few
>minutes walk from the conference venue.
>
>Do you require vegetarian/vegan food/special diet?
>
>Guests tickets are also available for the Saturday night Conference dinner
>-
>cost £30 inc. vat
>
>Prior to the Conference on Friday 7th August we have organised a full day
>of
>tutorials - see: http://summer2009.ukuug.org/Tutorials
>
>If you would like to attend the Tutorial fee for speakers is £60 inc. vat
>(half day tutorial - £30 inc. vat).
>
>Please let me know if you would like to book a place at one of these
>tutorials
>and I will send you an invoice.
>
>Whilst contacting you I should like to remind you about your Conference
>presentation final paper / slides - these are due by 24th July so they can
>be included on our website (after the conference).  If you need more time
>for
>this please let me know.
>
>We ask that you should submit them as pdf or html -   Please email direct
>to:
>summer2...@ukuug.org
>
>I shall look forward to hearing from you, do not hesitate to ask any
>questions
>if you are unclear about any event arrangements.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Jane
>--
>UKUUG Secretariat
>PO Box 37
>Buntingford
>Herts SG9 9UQ
>Tel: 01763 273475
>Fax: 01763 273255
>off...@ukuug.org
>www.ukuug.org
>
>A Company Limited by Guarantee
>
>Registered Office:
>The Manor House
>Buntingford
>Herts SG9 9AB
>
>Reg. No. 2506680


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Re: [Talk-GB] Hello All

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Jack Stringer wrote:
>Sent: 24 June 2009 11:53 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Hello All
>
>I joined the main mailing list a few weeks ago. Just noticed there is
>a GB version.
>
>I am just up the road from Glastonbury Festival Site. Anyone else in
>here from Somerset.
>
>I am just getting into editing simple things atm. But I plan to do a
>proper job of surveying my own village to get myself into it.
>
>I would also like to get involved in adding address data for already
>added amenities to in turn improve the postcode database.
>
>
>Jack Stringer
>btw Hello to Jon from fotopic.net
>

Welcome Jack. Good to have you here.

Perhaps when the festival is over you might ask if you can map the farm for
future festivals.

Cheers

Andy



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[Talk-GB] Reminder - Midlands social (and micro mapping) Thursday 2nd July

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

A reminder for folks in the Midlands. Next Midlands User Group social and
micro map will be in the beautiful micro city of Lichfield this Thursday
evening from 7:00pm.

7pm meet at The Bowling Green pub, Friary Rd roundabout, Lichfield, before
heading out and about for some mapping. Meet back at the pub for banter and
beer.

Come and join the regulars for a fun evening.

More details and cake at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia

Cheers

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Bus routes

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

You might want to check the archive on talk-transit and
talk-gb-westmidlands. Plenty of discussion about the NaPTAN data import of
Bus Stops and the ongoing routing work going on in the midlands as a trial
run for further NaPTAN imports of bus stops across the country.

The only reliable way to do this is to survey the bus stops and ride/observe
the routes. In Birmingham the route maps are under copyright.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Lewis
>Sent: 02 July 2009 3:34 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Bus routes
>
>I want to add some bus routes around where I used to live to the map.  What
>is an acceptable source to supplement my memory?  Can I use an online
>timetable, like these ones, to work out the route? I know the area quite
>well so I just need the list of stops to derive the route.
>
>http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/R68.htm
>
>http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/sccwebsite/sccwspublications.nsf/WebLookupFileRe
>sourcesByUNID/docidDF5671AF34A01E4D80257287003BFD5C?openDocument
>
>Sorry if this is a daft question but there are such concerns about
>copyright that I thought I should check.  If these are not acceptable, do I
>need to follow the bus???
>
>Thanks
>
>Oliver
>



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[Talk-GB] FW: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Stoke on Trent mapping party - tomorrow!

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

-Original Message-
From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Rob
Annable
Sent: 03 July 2009 6:04 PM
To: talk-gb-westmidla...@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Stoke on Trent mapping party - tomorrow!

A quick, albeit rather late, reminder that tomorrow is the Stoke on Trent
mapping party - details here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stoke_on_Trent_Mapping_Event

I've added a proposed cake to show the area. See you tomorrow!


Rob

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Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Jack Stringer wrote:
>Sent: 04 July 2009 12:45 PM
>To: Dave Stubbs; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Amenity Editing
>
>> No need for relations.
>> Just tag each address with addr:postcode or postal_code and all is
>sorted.
>
>Tag it with addr:postcode as that seems to be the system for now.

Both are in wide use. postal_code came along first (since 2006) so I'm not
sure why the Karlsruhe Schema used postcode. We could settle on one, but
since both are being used it's not a problem to use either one.

>
>
>> And in case you haven't seen it:
>> http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~random/postcodes/?layers=000FBT0F
>>
>> this is taken from those two tags as applied to nodes or ways.
>
>Seen it, and you can see there are errors in the map due to mistyped
>names or incorrect cords. We need to bring both the postcodes under
>one name then to a mass edit/check to see which are in incorrect
>areas. i.e. there is a EC in the Exeter area (EX).
>

A large volume of postal codes in the database are partial postcodes, mostly
the first half of the postcode for instance in the UK. So being able to
actuality define is very unlikely until pretty much full addressing is done,
but that's years away. There is also the fact that the postcode areas are
dynamic and change each time a new postcode is issued for a development by
RM.

>
>> This really doesn't work. Postcodes are applied to addresses, not
>> streets. Just tag the address if you know it.
>> It's still quite useful to tag streets with the known prefix though --
>> I've done that a lot in London where the SW15 part is printed on most
>> street signs.
>
>I agree that postcodes are to the house not the the road. If you
>relate a house to a road it does allow for a navigation device to see
>where it needs to take you to get to the house. For now though I think
>having nodes for a building and putting in the addr info is the best
>way. This means that if in the future someone wants to do the houses
>to the schema suggested they can get all the information from the
>nodes, and then delete the extra data then. I know it making more work
>in the very long run but atm the idea of spending 2 weeks putting all
>the houses in correctly could put people off from entering the data.

We've been through this discussion many times before, just trawl the talk
archive. The current aim is to do it properly, which is to add address data
for nodes or building outlines placed in their correct (or as close as you
can establish) positions. We ruled out tagging the ways with address data
long ago, though that's not to say a set of postcode tags on a way isn't
valid and it is certainly helpful. I've also occasionally added a
house_numbers tag to ways where a street name sign has included that
information. I'd almost certainly drop that tag if I went along later and
added all the proper address data to nodes or buildings.

>
>I think I someone needs to draw up a proposal to convert the postcode
>tag to the addr:postcode as duplication causes confusion for now.

It's not a concern. We have many many similar examples (eg
bridge=true/yes/1). Having tagging flexibility helps build the map data.
Data users have to take two or more tags into account when they parse the
data. That's better than making everyone conform to a tagging standard,
something which is not the OSM way.

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Reverting all Liam123's edits

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Forwarded to Data@

Can you confirm what correspondence there has been with the user please.

Thanks

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller
>Sent: 20 July 2009 2:57 PM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Reverting all Liam123's edits
>
>
>I am proposing that we get all Liam123's edits removed from OSM.
>
>My reasoning is firstly many of his edits are clearly just plain wrong
>and are certainly breaking previously good maps. Secondly that he has
>failed to respond to a polite message asking him for an explanation.
>Thirdly, given that he is not responding to messages he is unlikely to
>agree to the new license!
>
>To be clear, this is likely to also result in loosing any subsequent
>work on the ways he touched. I suggest that most of these edits are
>attempts to sort out the mess anyway.
>
>Do I have some support for this?
>
>Does anyone object?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>
>Peter
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Shaun McDonald wrote:
>Sent: 23 July 2009 1:56 PM
>To: Richard Mann
>Cc: talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org; Talk GB
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Roundabout, ways and relationship policies
>
>
>On 22 Jul 2009, at 23:24, Richard Mann wrote:
>
>> I've not exactly rushing to get to that stage, but I couldn't see
>> any obvious way to edit the ordering of a relation. Could anyone
>> give me any clues?
>>
>
>You can change the ordering of the relation using JOSM's relation
>editor. You may need to update to be able to get it.
>

But we need that tool improved to be able to reorder a route relation
consisting of ways and bus_stop nodes. It's very difficult to see what the
correct order should be, especially when streets have been chopped up
because different routes leave at different junctions.

It's an improvement to have ordering and re-ordering capability, but still
some way to go to be useful for large relations.

Cheers

Andy

>Shaun



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Re: [Talk-GB] SOTM 2007 - Liberating GIS from the OS

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

John,

Can't answer your question as I've not heard anything regarding Mike's
activities in the last two years.

What I can tell you is that I've been beavering away collecting the
12:25,000 scale out of copyright OS mapping. I only currently have around
15% of the 2027 maps that were printed originally by the OS but it's close
to being enough to start scanning and making available in the same manner
that Richard has done with the NPE 1:63,360 (1 inch) mapping. rectification
and accuracy is a lot better with these maps. My initial test indicated that
without further rectification I can get the positional accuracy to around
10m for the paper version of the maps, a little worse for the cloth backed
versions. They are dimensionally (printing) far better than the NPE set.

The 1:25,000 mapping is based on the old 6" scale maps from the late 19th
century, so they aren't that much use in urban areas, however for rural
England and Wales plus parts of Scotland they are a real boon as they show
field boundaries and a huge amount of other details that are still present
in the landscape.

If anyone has old 1:25,000 Provisional/First edition maps that they are
happy to donate to the cause I'd be most interested to hear from them.

Cheers

Andy 

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of John McKerrell
>Sent: 24 July 2009 10:32 AM
>To: Talk GB
>Subject: [Talk-GB] SOTM 2007 - Liberating GIS from the OS
>
>Hi
>
>At SOTM 2007 Michael Calder talked about a project he was working on
>to scan in all of the old out of copyright OS maps and then to
>digitise them to get georeferenced raw data out. Since then I haven't
>heard anything about the project so I was wondering if anyone knows
>what he's up to with that? His email address is on his user page but I
>thought I'd ask here first rather than hassle him directly. There's a
>bit more info on his user page here:
>
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Michaelcalder
>
>Any clues? No particular reason for asking but for some reason I
>remembered the project last night and I'm sure by the time-scales he
>mentioned he should be well underway.
>
>John
>
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[Talk-GB] OSM Birmingham Street Index

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Thanks to Brian Quinion's fantastic work on location search code we now have
a very useable street index document for Birmingham which we have sent to
Birmingham City Council for them to do a comparison with their official
street index. Ideally we would have taken their list and croudsourced the
review but hey, that's another story!

For those interested, the data is available in an Excel spreadsheet [1] and
also a hard copy PDF [2].

It's based on data within the Birmingham boundary as we know it. Because we
don't know exactly where the boundary is we may be missing or including some
streets. What BCC send back should help us better define the boundary.

Note that the list is produced from a planet dump that's about 2 weeks or so
old.

A couple of words of caution.
Firstly the west midlands contributors haven't been through this list
themselves yet to check for obvious bugs. There are bound to be some
spelling mistakes as well as some unconnected streets because the data is
not topologically correct. These should be easy to spot and fix so we'll be
working on that.

Also don't put too much reliance on the postcodes. The postcode data that's
in the spreadsheet is generated from polygon data and not necessarily from
information carried on an individual way, as a result it may not always
report the exact correct postcode or part postcode for the way. The lat/lon
values will me more precise.


Cheers

Andy

[1] http://ajr.hopto.org/osm/200907_OSM_Birmingham_Street_Index.xls
[2] http://ajr.hopto.org/osm/200907_OSM_Birmingham_Street_Index.pdf




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Re: [Talk-GB] English chapter

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Arguably, even a central England chapter is too big in some respects. We set
up mappa-mercia.org to promote and "represent" ourselves in the West
Midlands area because it's much easier to get local press and bodies
interested in working with us if we are seen as a local entity. This is
starting to bear fruit as we have been successful in engaging with
Birmingham City Council and others.

I think those that have done similar things very much on their own in their
own home towns also works well. David's work in Cambridge being a prime
example.

Thus the importance is people. These things only work and take off if
individuals alone or together want to make it happen and push it on. The
local chapter really isn't needed unless it needs support beyond its own
means. For example in our case shortly to provide an invoice to a sponsor,
which we will need to do through OSMF to channel the funds. It would be
better to do that through a local chapter in the long run and one for the UK
is more than sufficient in my view.

Thus while I'm in support of a UK chapter (which could in reality perhaps
simply be a subsidiary of the OSMF Ltd company probably) that represents UK
interests, I don't see the benefit of spitting it down further except as we
have in an informal manner as the wish arises locally.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of David Earl
>Sent: 18 August 2009 11:30 AM
>To: osm-gb
>Subject: [Talk-GB] English chapter
>
>I put a proposal on the wiki page
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/Proposed_Chapt
>ers
>for a central England OSM local chapter.
>
>Peter disagrees with the (too small) scale of this and wants to discuss
>it here.
>
>I have no huge feelings about this. I just felt that we have a high
>density of mappers in the UK so it deserved more local representation. I
>can't say I'm that interested in running a national scale organisation,
>whereas something more regionally focussed is up my street.
>
>While Scotland, England and Northern Ireland are relatively small in
>population terms, people tend to be protective of their identity
>(rightly so, I think), so I didn't include those. Indeed there's no
>particular reason why our chapters have to divide along nationalistic
>lines, and Ireland might feel something covering the whole island might
>be appropriate. Not for me to say, and no doubt there are some delicate
>sensitivities there.
>
>What I do feel uneasy about is including (greater) London. Because it is
>so big, and has specific metropolitan features, and has a high density
>of people involved, in any sphere it tends to dominate anything to the
>detriment of outside London. I don't wish to cast aspersions on anyone
>in London here, but some Londoners have been known to take a
>London-centric view of the world (I regard "the provinces" as
>pejorative). Typical journalists in the Guardian article used a London
>example - they think and breathe London.
>
>So I do think there is a case for separating London or some greater
>south-east area from the rest.
>
>But if we had the south-east and the rest of England, I'd be quite
>happy. But at the end of the day, I'm not too bothered about the whole
>thing, though I don't really want to put myself forward for something on
>the scale of the whole country, but would happily do so for something
>smaller.
>
>I'm sorry I missed the phone call yesterday. I was expecting someone to
>contact me with the number to call. But if things are changing to not
>include Foundation membership with chapter membership I think that's a
>mistake - it's hard enough to get people to join one organisation, let
>alone two.
>
>David
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] NAPTAN update?

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Christoph Böhme has been working on a NaPTAN merge tool called NOVAM. It
colours bus stops (see below) in a manner that shows you whether you have
already merged data or if the node is untouched NaPTAN. It will be very
useful once finished, however its offline at the moment. It should be at:

http://www.mappa-mercia.org/cgi-bin/novam.wsgi 

At the moment it's not functioning live to make merge changes, but you can
use it to see current progress when its working. Just take a look in and
around Birmingham, UK.

Colouring scheme:

Bus stops should show up green if they have 
a highway-tag [1] 
AND a naptan:AtcoCode-tag 
AND NO naptan:unverified-tag
AND a 'route_ref' tag 
AND a shelter tag.

A stop is considered a plain naptan stop (blue) if it has 
NO highway-tag
AND a naptan:AtcoCode-tag
AND a naptan:unverified-tag.

Plain OSM stops (yellow) must have
a highway-tag
AND NO naptan:AtcoCode.

And finally there is the concept of a physically not present stop (grey).
This is a bit unfinished as we have not really decided what to do with these
stops. At the moment a stop classifies as not physically present if it has
NO highway-tag (to prevent it from showing up on the map)
AND a naptan:atcoCode-tag
AND a physically_present tag set to 'no'.

All remaining stops are displayed as an orange stop. This is a bit of
catch-all which does not actually display merged stops but everything that
is not explicitely marked finished or *not* merged.


Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Oliver Lewis
>Sent: 18 August 2009 3:14 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NAPTAN update?
>
>I think it's worth putting the source tag on future imports.  I came across
>this when I wanted to add ";yahoo" as opposed to ";survey".  I placed the
>original nodes so I'm mainly deleting those and moving the naptans back
>into the same position.
>
>Thanks for your work on this.
>
>Any chance of keeping a running count of how many nodes still have the
>unreviewed tag on them (on the wiki page)?  It would provide an incentive
>for people to join the clean-up and a measure of progress.
>
>Oliver
>
>
>On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Thomas Wood 
>wrote:
>
>
>   2009/8/18 Oliver Lewis :
>
>   > The stops I've been looking at (for example
>   > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/469765171/history) don't
>include a
>   > "source=source=naptan_import" tag as suggested by the wiki
>   >
>(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN_and
>_OSM_data).
>   > I assume I'm OK to reposition them using aerial photography?
>   >
>   > Oliver
>   >
>
>
>   I had intended to reintroduce the source tag on features before
>   running the import, but it slipped my mind.
>   It's not a very serious problem since it still is on the original
>changeset.
>   Go ahead and realign to aerial imagery, though a GPS survey (or
>   merging with an existing OSM bus stop node, if assumed to be
>   accurately placed) is preferred, of course!
>
>   --
>   Regards,
>   Thomas Wood
>   (Edgemaster)
>
>



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Re: [Talk-GB] NAPTAN update?

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Jason Cunningham wrote:
>Sent: 19 August 2009 12:49 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] NAPTAN update?
>
>I found the wiki page giving advice on merging.
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:NaPTAN/Surveying_and_Merging_NaPTAN
>_and_OSM_data
>
>But it does need updating. It mentions removing a 'source tag' which doesnt
>appear to be used, and mentions merging using software but I cant see a way
>to do that with Potlatch
>
>I'll stick with the advice Tom's just given, until its updated.
>
>Jason Cunningham
>
>
>2009/8/19 Tom Chance 
>
>
>
>   On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:27:37 +0100, Jason Cunningham wrote:
>   > Is there any guidance showing how we should deal with these new
bus
>stop?
>   > Just looking at my local area, many of the new ones are in the
>wrong
>   place.
>   > But I cant simply move them because there is already a bus stop in
>the
>   > correct location with route information.
>   >
>   > What is the correct procedure for merging bus stops? What remains,
>what
>   > gets removed?
>
>
>   I believe Thomas Wood is planning to improve the wiki.
>
>   I've made a start in Peckham, where the stops are all there but
>relations
>   between pairs of stops are patchy, and many stops aren't in the
right
>route
>   relations. Some nodes have the route_ref tag which I'm treating as
>   deprecated due to route relations. NAPTAN nodes have much better
>   information that I don't want to lose. So my approach has been:
>
>   - move the NAPTAN nodes to the right location and delete the old bus
>stop
>   node
>   - check the name and other details as one or two have been slightly
>   incorrect
>   - add the NAPTAN node to the right route relations
>   - switch the naptan:verified tag to "yes"
>
>   Regards,
>   Tom
>
>

There's a bit more details via the Birmingham NaPTAN trail page:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN/Birmingham_Trial

For an example of what I do when I merge the data see the following node
example:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/367694067

The tags with naptan: at the front are the import data and the rest are
basically what I've taken from the stop sign on the ground. We remove the
"unverified=yes" tag (verified=no perhaps in your case) once a stop has been
verified and all the data merging complete. I use the merge tool in JOSM to
merge the nodes. You will see also that I add "+ survey" to the source tag.

Hope this helps folk.

Cheers

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Postcodes map moribund?

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Dave Stubbs wrote:
>Sent: 20 August 2009 5:42 PM
>To: Andy Street
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Postcodes map moribund?
>
>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Andy Street wrote:
>> On Mon, 2009-08-17 at 13:27 +0100, Dave Stubbs wrote:
>>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Ciarán
>>> Mooney wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > Seen this map before, very cool. Do you use the postcode=* or
>>> > add:postcode=* to pull out the areas?
>>> >
>>>
>>> postal_code and addr:postcode taken from either nodes or ways -- they
>>> all get turned into points then it creates a giant voronoi diagram and
>>> pieces together polygons from continuous cells.
>>>
>>> There's lots of streets tagged postal_code in the UK (mostly with just
>>> the prefix from a street sign) and then recently there's lots of
>>> buildings and points tagged with addr:postcode so those are included
>>> too.
>>>
>>> There are layers for data from the NPE and FTP projects too.
>>>
>>> Last updated in May.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> When you find time to fix the map would it be possible to add post boxes
>> as an additional data source for the OSM layer?
>>
>
>Yes, good idea. I'll add that.

And perhaps post offices too?

Cheers

Andy

>
>Dave
>
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[Talk-GB] Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM data contributors

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

We are all used to drawing in difficult or far away features by referring to
the NPE 1" to 1 mile out of copyright Ordnance Survey mapping in JOSM or
Potlatch. Its great for long linear features but for accurate stuff, like
field boundaries and detailed information about the landscape, especially in
rural areas, it's not enough.

Enter the OS 1:25,000 scale (two and a half inches to the mile)
1st/Provisional edition [1]. Which I'm happy to announce is starting to make
an appearance for the project.

There are two parts to the availability currently. One focused on providing
it via WMS for use in JOSM and the other as tiles for Potlatch.

The first full sheet (NX88 NW or Dumfries [2]) is available for you to try
out in JOSM [3]. Just add the URL as a custom WMS.

For the Potlatch tiles RichardF has worked up some code magic that should
automate the process of rectification and tiling. It may take me a little
time to get that running and the tiles will probably be served from the new
dev machine which is not quite ready yet so there will be a further
announcement on this.

Both the WMS and google format tiles use the same rectification data.

The time consuming part is manually obtaining the pixel co-ordinates for the
corner gridlines of each sheet (which I have to scan in two halves on my A3
scanner). It has to be done manually to get the best accuracy, which should
be generally 10m once available in Potlatch or JOSM. i.e. significantly
better than was possible with NPE, though note that its still only as good
as the OS originally survey it in the late 19th century. Anyway, it means
that this part is a slow process.

Currently I have around 15% of the published sheets with more arriving every
day. More would be welcome, either by way of donated maps, scans, or funds
to purchase more from retail suppliers (higher cost - usually about £3 to £8
each). With 2027 sheets in the series cost is a factor for how quickly I can
grow the set.

I'll keep the index updated on the wiki with progress (both obtaining and
scanning/tiling) so look out for your area turning up. The majority of the
sheets I have are for England and Wales. Scotland never had full coverage
from this series.

Cheers

Andy

[1] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Provisional/First_Edition";
[2] "http://osm.org/go/e...@6r";
[3]
"http://warper.freemap.in/layers/wms/1?request=GetMap&version=1.1.1&styles=&;
format=image/png&srs=epsg:4326&exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage&"



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Re: [Talk-GB] Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM data contributors

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

And in my haste I omitted to thank Chippy for his excellent map
rectification/warping and WMS facilities. Apologies Tim.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [mailto:ajrli...@googlemail.com]
>Sent: 06 October 2009 3:04 PM
>To: 'talk-gb@openstreetmap.org'
>Subject: Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM data
>contributors
>
>We are all used to drawing in difficult or far away features by referring
>to the NPE 1" to 1 mile out of copyright Ordnance Survey mapping in JOSM or
>Potlatch. Its great for long linear features but for accurate stuff, like
>field boundaries and detailed information about the landscape, especially
>in rural areas, it's not enough.
>
>Enter the OS 1:25,000 scale (two and a half inches to the mile)
>1st/Provisional edition [1]. Which I'm happy to announce is starting to
>make an appearance for the project.
>
>There are two parts to the availability currently. One focused on providing
>it via WMS for use in JOSM and the other as tiles for Potlatch.
>
>The first full sheet (NX88 NW or Dumfries [2]) is available for you to try
>out in JOSM [3]. Just add the URL as a custom WMS.
>
>For the Potlatch tiles RichardF has worked up some code magic that should
>automate the process of rectification and tiling. It may take me a little
>time to get that running and the tiles will probably be served from the new
>dev machine which is not quite ready yet so there will be a further
>announcement on this.
>
>Both the WMS and google format tiles use the same rectification data.
>
>The time consuming part is manually obtaining the pixel co-ordinates for
>the corner gridlines of each sheet (which I have to scan in two halves on
>my A3 scanner). It has to be done manually to get the best accuracy, which
>should be generally 10m once available in Potlatch or JOSM. i.e.
>significantly better than was possible with NPE, though note that its still
>only as good as the OS originally survey it in the late 19th century.
>Anyway, it means that this part is a slow process.
>
>Currently I have around 15% of the published sheets with more arriving
>every day. More would be welcome, either by way of donated maps, scans, or
>funds to purchase more from retail suppliers (higher cost - usually about
>£3 to £8 each). With 2027 sheets in the series cost is a factor for how
>quickly I can grow the set.
>
>I'll keep the index updated on the wiki with progress (both obtaining and
>scanning/tiling) so look out for your area turning up. The majority of the
>sheets I have are for England and Wales. Scotland never had full coverage
>from this series.
>
>Cheers
>
>Andy
>
>[1] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Provisional/First_Edition";
>[2] "http://osm.org/go/e...@6r";
>[3]
>"http://warper.freemap.in/layers/wms/1?request=GetMap&version=1.1.1&styles=
>&format=image/png&srs=epsg:4326&exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage&"



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Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Steve,

As a direct comparison with the 1:25k sheet I added have a look at Cairn
Water to the NW of Dumfries. I put that in off the 1:25k yesterday. You can
see its slightly different from 7th series position. Now obviously the 1:25k
could be out too but as I'd expect a 1:25k sheet to be more accurate we
should be able to assess comparison with that too as well as GPS traces.

The OS of course did adjust the location of tiles as a result of the OS's
PAI completed in 2006. As far as I recall though that only moved things by
at most a few meters.

I have I think 2 or 3 more 1:25k sheets that site over the 7th series sheets
currently available so I'll get those up for further comparison asap.

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Steve Chilton
>Sent: 06 October 2009 11:24 PM
>To: Shaun McDonald; Frankie Roberto
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
>
>If you can quantify any displacement it would be useful. We intend to try
>to check this and see if any improvements can be made to the process.
>
>Cheers
>STEVE
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Shaun McDonald [mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk]
>   Sent: Tue 06/10/2009 21:36
>   To: Frankie Roberto
>   Cc: Steve Chilton; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>   Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Christopher,

Useful sanity check, thanks.

Looking at the the OSTN02 FAQ it states:

"While it is true that two adjacent OSGB36 triangulation stations are
usually in agreement with each other to within a few centimetres, if we
compare two triangulation stations 10 km apart by measuring a precise GPS
vector, we will typically find an error of several decimetres in their
relative archive coordinates. If the two stations are 100 km apart, the
relative error between them might be four metres. If the stations are at
opposite ends of the country, we will find a twenty metre relative error
between the two, based on their archive OSGB36 coordinates."

This would suggest that the error in a position of a 10km x 10km 1:25k map
sheet is in the order of centimetres rather than meters. And furthermore the
OS PAI process found errors only of a less than 5m maximum I think. So I
assume that although these errors are important for precise surveying they
probably don't impact OSM that much? Obviously the error would be
exaggerated over a bigger sheet such as the 7th series but presumably
provided sufficient control points are used the error isn't going to be
significant.

Thoughts?

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-
>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Osborne
>Sent: 07 October 2009 9:05 AM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: [Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset
>
>Regarding the offset Shaun observed - the OS carried out a retriangulation
>exercise that only finished in 1962. I've been off list for a while so
>excuse me if I'm incorrect, but these are 50 year old out of copyright maps
>from 1959 before retriangulation finished?
>
>Further you are away from the datum origin the bigger the error incurred,
>so may explain the offset for the Scottish scans?
>
>You are probably already ahead of me and compensated but OSTN02 is a
>transformation which is supposed to deal with this.
>
>Great work Steve et al
>
>Christopher Osborne
>www.itoworld.com
>07533 188 262
>
>   On Oct 6, 2009 9:49 PM,  wrote:
>
>   Send Talk-GB mailing list submissions to
>  talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>
>   To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>   or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>  talk-gb-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
>   You can reach the person managing the list at
>  talk-gb-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
>   When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>   than "Re: Contents of Talk-GB digest..."
>
>
>   Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup  site
>(OJ W)
> 2. Re: Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup  site
>(Peter Childs)
> 3. Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM data
>contributors (Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists))
> 4. Re: Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM  data
>contributors (Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists))
> 5. Re: Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup  site
>(Jason Cunningham)
> 6. Ordnance Survey 7th series available (Steve Chilton)
> 7. Re: Ordnance Survey 7th series available (Frankie Roberto)
> 8. Re: Ordnance Survey 7th series available (Shaun McDonald)
>
>
>
-
>-
>
>   Message: 1
>   Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:08:13 +0100
>   From: OJ W 
>   Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode
>  lookup  site
>   To: osm-gb 
>   Message-ID:
>  <89699a0a0910060608r450ed5c9r1d899ad99204e...@mail.gmail.com>
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>   First strike! [jobcentre-plus seem to have been using this data].
>Two
>   more, and we should cut-off the government's internet connection ;)
>
>
>   On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM, David Earl
> wrote:
>   >
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/06/royal_mail_ernest_marples_postcodes
>/
>
>
>
>   --
>
>   Message: 2
>   Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:24:23 +0100
>   From: Peter Childs 
>   Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode
>  lookup  site
>   To: OJ W 
>   Cc: osm-gb 
>   Message-ID:
>  
>   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>   2009/10/6 OJ W 

Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

David,

Which NPE WMS are you using. Is it by any change the "nick" version on dev?
I get a much better alignment for that area with the re-rectified NPE tiles
from TimSC's space at http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~timsc/wms2/map.php?

Cheers

Andy

>-Original Message-
>From: David Earl [mailto:da...@frankieandshadow.com]
>Sent: 07 October 2009 11:23 AM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: 'Steve Chilton'; 'Shaun McDonald'; 'Frankie Roberto'; talk-
>g...@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
>
>NPE maps have always had major alignment problems which have seemed to
>me to be worse in the eastern side of the country. There's also a new
>problem, but I don't know whether it is in the JOSM WMS plugin, the tile
>server or what.
>
>Consider three JOSM screenshots:
>http://www.frankieandshadow.com/xref/josm1.png
>http://www.frankieandshadow.com/xref/josm2.png
>http://www.frankieandshadow.com/xref/josm3.png
>
>The first is Landsat, obviously. It defaults with an offset of about
>100m vertically and horizontally in my part of the world (52N 0E) as can
>be seen from the obvious course of the road on the satellite images at
>the orange arrows. But once the layer is aligned on known points, it
>tends to be aligned across the whole working area.
>
>NPE maps in contrast, in the second one, firstly has a relative
>displacement of tiles (about 150m) in JOSM which is obvious in this
>unadjusted download. (We also have to add to that that the map sheet
>boundaries don't line up anywhere near accurately)
>
>The third one though shows that even within a single tile, the alignment
>drifts extremely rapidly. I aligned the third one with the junction at
>point 1 near the top left of a tile, and you can see that at the bottom
>right of the tile, the bend I've marked is off by about 150m
>horizontally and 115m vertically over a distance of about 1500m - 10%.
>All the roads in this area are GPS surveyed (I did them).
>
>I mentioned this when NPE maps first arrived, but it's never been
>addressed. Is it a rectification problem, or a problem of how JOSM or
>the WMS plugin scales or displays the tiles?
>
>The tile displacement problem is recent and I'm sure that will easily be
>fixed. The variation across a tile is more awkward I think.
>
>David



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Re: [Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>Sent: 07 October 2009 5:34 PM
>To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset
>
>> > I get a much better alignment for that area with the re-rectified
>> NPE tiles
>> > from TimSC's space at http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~timsc/wms2/map.php?
>> Yes, indeed, vastly better (and the images are clearer too, and the
>> tiles braking up problem isn't there). Even if I pan several tens of
>> km it is still in sync, and it seems to be in sync from the download
>> - no initial adjustment needed.
>
>
>I rectified the NPE images available in Potlatch (and later
>republished via Tim's WMS for those of you using inferior editors ;) )
>with 90 control points per sheet. It took bloody ages! But it does
>mean they're very, very close to the originals.
>
>The original NPE images found at www.npemap.org.uk, and on the older
>WMS, had only been rectified with some rough whole-sheet rotation and
>shearing operations in Photoshop or similar. These were in fact
>rectified for postcode input at npemap.org.uk, where the accuracy was
>less critical.
>
>Personally I'm a bit tired of fixing JOSM users' crappy tracings and
>would like the old WMS to be removed!
>
>But the fact that even the Potlatch 90-point NPE tiles need a little
>manual correction to GPS (space-drag in Potlatch) tells you something
>about the OS's surveying accuracy back then. As the 7th series
>followed straight on from NPE with no major resurvey at first, you
>should expect there still to be some displacement.
>

No how about I ask the OS under a FOIA request to provide the error
correction values (rotation and position) for each of my 1:25k sheets. I
just wonder if they would play ball. I'll send one in once the current one
is back. Don't wish to taunt them too much :-)

Cheers

Andy


>cheers
>Richard
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset (Andy Robinson(blackadder-lists))

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

Peter Miller wrote:
>Sent: 08 October 2009 1:01 PM
>To: Christopher Osborne
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset (Andy Robinson(blackadder-
>lists))
>
>
>On 8 Oct 2009, at 12:08, Christopher Osborne wrote:
>
>
>
>
>   No how about I ask the OS under a FOIA request to provide
the
>error
>   correction values (rotation and position) for each of my
1:25k
>sheets. I
>   just wonder if they would play ball. I'll send one in once
the
>current one
>   is back. Don't wish to taunt them too much :-)
>
>   Cheers
>
>   Andy
>
>
>
>   Their research guys are all actually very nice fellas and might well
>provide us with the information if we ask nicely.  Will email a relevant
>contact and email address to you off list.
>
>
>
>I agree with Chris that FOI requests should be considered as a back-up
>method for information that is not forthcoming without it. Incidentally I
>got answers from my local council (after having two emails ignored for a
>month) by including the phrase 'I understand that I could ask for this
>information under FOI which creates more work for you, so in this instance
>I am not asking under the FOI' , I got the answers I needed within 2 hours!

I agree it's a good first approach.

>
>Also, do be aware that the information in a FOI request is probably not of
>use to OSM because it will still be covered by Crown (c).

Well, since we would be using the data to reposition scans and not actually
copying the and releasing the data in any usable form I think we probably
don't have an issue even if did come via an FOIA request.

Cheers

Andy

>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Peter
>
>
>
>
>   --
>   Christopher Osborne
>   www.itoworld.com
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>
>



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Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available

[Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)]

David,

TomH has moved stuff about a bit on dev so that all OOC content is served
from the same space.

To browse the Out Of Copyright mapping (NPE/7th/1st) then go to:

http://ooc.openstreetmap.org/

use the layer switcher to view each series. 

For the WMS, you now need this in JOSM:

http://ooc.openstreetmap.org/xxx/wms/map.php?

where xxx is: npe, os7 or os1  depending on which map series you want.

At the moment the 1:25k 1st series isn't selectable as a potlatch
background. That will get sorted sometime soon enough. Presently only a few
sheets have been uploaded (most in Scotland or Northumberland).

You can keep up to date with changes related to OOC mapping via the wiki
here:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Out_of_copyright


Cheers

Andy 

>-Original Message-
>From: David Earl [mailto:da...@frankieandshadow.com]
>Sent: 11 October 2009 3:43 PM
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
>Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org; 'Steve Chilton'; 'Shaun McDonald'
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
>
>
>
>On 07/10/2009 14:07, David Earl wrote:
>> On 07/10/2009 12:28, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:
>>> Which NPE WMS are you using. Is it by any change the "nick" version on
>dev?
>>
>> Indeed it is. That's presumably the setting I've had all along.
>>
>>> I get a much better alignment for that area with the re-rectified NPE
>tiles
>>> from TimSC's space at http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~timsc/wms2/map.php?
>>
>> Yes, indeed, vastly better (and the images are clearer too, and the
>> tiles braking up problem isn't there). Even if I pan several tens of km
>> it is still in sync, and it seems to be in sync from the download - no
>> initial adjustment needed.
>>
>> So the fix is to remove the old ones :-)
>>
>> Thanks, that will improve my mapping enormously.
>
>
>No sooner discovered than gone - I'm getting big red boxes with
>"Exception Occurred" in JOSM and if I try to follow the link to the
>timsc npe maps I'm getting 404's. Has something changed?
>
>David


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