Re: [OSM-talk-ie] AI mapping roads released in IE

[Rory McCann]

Yeah this is basically the right list.

Lots of that FB detect stuff is rubbish. They still haven't fixed it. Lots of 
dreck in there.

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, at 18:34, Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) via Talk-ie 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I never received a response about the question below.. Can I get a 
> confirmation on the correct mailing address to use when proposing a 
> posting to the talklist?
> 
> Thanks,
> Oisin
> 
> From: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc) 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:02 AM
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Fw: AI mapping roads released in IE
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This was my first post to the Talk-ie list. If this isnt relevant, or 
> im not using the correct list, can you give me an idea of the 'type' of 
> contributions that are welcome on the thread?
> This looked like it would be in common with previous posts as per the 
> archives.
> 
> Thanks,
> Oisin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Oisin Herriott (Insight Global Inc)
> Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:53 AM
> To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> mailto:talk-ie@openstreetmap.org>>
> Subject: AI mapping roads released in IE
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> As of December 30th it seems Facebook have pushed the ability to map 
> roads in Ireland with their RapId editor -
> 
> https://github.com/facebookmicrosites/Open-Mapping-At-Facebook/blob/master/WHATSNEW.md
> 
> 
> 
> For those who don't know what MapWithAI is check out https://mapwith.ai
> 
> For now this is roads only, and keep in mind that their are alot of 
> fences, ditches, and tracks in there. However, there is an option to 
> mark signals as false positives which may help improve  AI for
> a future round. Having another source to verify, or survey, will be 
> necessary in plenty of cases but a nice tool all the same.
> 
> Oisin
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Some of the 3300 parks in OSM Ireland are just patches of grass.

[Rory McCann]

I tend to do `landuse=grass` too

If you want more work, you could see who'se adding these features, and talk to 
them to ask them to stop.

On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, at 11:59 AM, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> As part of my researches into what features we have on OSM that might
> interest someone wishing to make use of outdoor facilities, I find on the
> Island of Ireland we have close to 3,300 parks to choose from, wow!
> (leisure=park). On closer inspection I find that many of these in South
> Dublin at least are green areas of grass in housing estates, maybe 4 houses
> long by 8 houses wide. I tend to tag those as per the presets with
> landuse=grass. Yesterday I ran overpass landuse=park and got nil response!
> This morning I have added landuse=park to about 24 of the parks already on
> OSM and listed as parks by DLR, South Dublin and Fingal. I have not removed
> any tags. I was unable to do Dodder valley, Tolka Valley, St Catherines or
> Millenium Blanchards town. If you are inclined please do. I propose
> re-tagging any simple grass areas in Estates in South Dublin that I know of
> as landuse=grass unless I hear that is a bad idea and to be avoided? Your
> opinions on the above please.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] some of my inconsistent tagging - cure sought

[Rory McCann]

JOSM's todo list plugin is very helpful here. do up to step 6, then use JOSM's 
find (control-f)  for the `anglican=whatever` tag, add to todo list, then 
iteratively fix each one. Turning on continuous download helps too. You can fix 
up some details as you go.

On Fri, 18 Sep 2020, at 5:55 PM, Donal Hunt wrote:
> I've only found 612 objects...
> 
> 
>1. Open JOSM.
>2. Go to Preferences and ensure "expert mode" is turned on.
>3. Click on "Download data".
>4. Choose "Download from Overpass API"
>5. Enter your query.  e.g. 
> 
>[out:xml][timeout:90];
>{{geocodeArea:Ireland}}->.searchArea;
>(
>  nwr["type"="boundary"]["anglican"="Church Of
>Ireland"](area.searchArea);
>);
>(._;>;);
>out meta;
> 
>6. Download your data.
>7. Select all your data (Ctrl+A).
>8. Find the key that you care about (e.g. "anglican") and then right
>click.
>9. Select "Search key/value".
>10. This gave me 612 objects.
>11. I can then change the name and upload the changes.
> 
> 
> Would be good to validate that the above is correct...
> 
> Donal
> 
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 16:14, Brian Hollinshead 
> wrote:
> 
> > During the lockdown I added a lot of Roman Catholic and Church of Ireland
> > Parishes to OSM.
> > I carelessly described 686 of them as anglican=Church Of Ireland instead of
> > anglican=Church of Ireland.
> >
> > You can see them in overpass using type=boundary and anglican="Church Of
> > Ireland". Is there some way one of you can please easily alter these at one
> > fell swoop?
> >
> > It would be great if you could afterwards then detail the how-to as I have
> > some smaller groups to cure and others besides me might also like to learn
> > this useful skill, but maybe perhaps others don't need it as much as I do!
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> >
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[OSM-talk-ie] Irish Pub preset

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

In case yous missed it, iD v2.18.5 now has a preset (created by yours truly[]1] 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/pull/7852 ) for “Irish Pubs” 
(`theme=irish`). This was deployed on 9th Sept 2020.

And don't worry, the preset is disabled in Ireland to prevent everyone thinking 
everything should be tagged that way.

https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/2821

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/blob/efe82822b7b70b3317383e0c3cc8e00422e0e70d/CHANGELOG.md#2185


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Does OSM have a similar concept as the "Organisation" from Mappilary?

[Rory McCann]

Hi Bianca.

Welcome to OSM! From an OSM level, no. There are no “organisations”. 
Many people would really want to do it, and some people are working on 
adding that functionality to the OSM website code (“Microcosms”) but 
that hasn't been finished.


It's great that you want to help do a project. Please keep us informed. 
The OSM community has written some guidelines for how to successfully 
run an organisated editing project: 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines


On 07/07/2020 14:37, Bianca Pereira wrote:

Hello,

   New member here :) Apologies in advance if my questions are too naive.

I am organising an initiative to map footpaths around three cities in
Ireland using OSM and Mapillary. In Mapilary we can create an Organisation
as a way to aggregate and visualise all contributions made as part of an
initiative. Is there any way to do the same within OSM?

   I know there is the option to create a task (as in
https://tasks.openstreetmap.ie/) or to include a hashtag within a commit.
But is there any way to retrieve and visualise only the information (nodes,
ways and areas) submitted as part of mapping the task or using the hashtag?

   Best Regards,
   Bianca Pereira
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[OSM-talk-ie] name=Ireland | Re: name=Éire / Ireland

[Rory McCann]

I think `name=Ireland` is best. For `name`, the most commonly used name 
in the place for the thing is what it should be. And, whatever one 
things /should be/ the most common name, I think we can all agree that 
what /is/ the most common name is “Ireland”.


`int_name` is a silly tag. I haven't heard of a good definition of that 
aside from “Name of the country in English”, which wronly prioritises 
English. Why not `int_name=جزيرة أيرلندا`?


On 07/06/2020 16:24, Neil O'Byrne wrote:

The Irish euro coins just have Éire.  So maybe name=Éire and int_name=Ireland

-Original Message-
From: Colm Moore [mailto:colmmoor...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday 7 June 2020 14:56
To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] name=Éire / Ireland

Hi,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/62273

Someone has set the name of the (Republic of) Ireland to "Éire / Ireland". 
Whatever about Irish constitutional nuances, OSM usually uses one field=one piece of 
data. I'm inclined to change it to name=Ireland, given that Ireland is the name that most 
people use.

Separately, there is the matter of lots of the international translations are of "Republic of 
Ireland" instead of "Ireland". Does anyone have thoughts on how to deal with 
potential grammatical issues in rationalising these?

Colm

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[OSM-talk-ie] opening_hours=sunrise-sunset | Re: How to tag gates to public parks that are only open during daylight hours

[Rory McCann]

Hi Neil,

This sounds like an `opening_hours` tag on the gate, and as Dave 
correctly points out, probably on the park as well (presuming that _all_ 
gates to the park are like this).


The opening_hours syntax is very powerful. You can put 
`sunrise`/`dawn`/`dusk`/`sunset` instead of hours. There are currently 
7,500 things in OSM with `opening_hours=sunrise-sunset`.


Rory

On 05.03.20 01:13, Dave Corley wrote:

Hi Neil,

I'm not sure about the moderator approval but it's possible that was
because you hadn't registered for the mailing list maybe.

As for your tagging question, the gate is tagged as barrier=gate as per the
page below

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dgate

With the restriction tagged using the access key per the below page,
specifically the access time section.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Alternatively you could map the gate and then simply add opening hours to
the park itself, might be a simpler solution and one that is a lot easier
to understand from an end user perspective

Hope that helps

Dave

On Wed 4 Mar 2020, 23:13 Neil O'Byrne,  wrote:


At the end of January I posted a message on Talk-ie on how to tag gates to
public parks that are only open during daylight hours, i.e. not on a fixed
weekly or monthly time schedule. I got a return email that my message to
Talk-ie awaits moderator approval.  I've received no message  since and I
am
still unclear on how to tag gates to public parks open during daylight
hours
only or if my message was reviewed and not approved.





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[OSM-talk-ie] theme it is for me then | Re: How to map Irish pubs?

[Rory McCann]

On 09/10/2019 00:14, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> 8 Oct 2019, 23:43 by t4d...@gmail.com:
>> This doesn't directly solve the problem, but you could use the
>> brand tag and put in the Guinness and other drinks that are
>> traditionally in an Irish pub if you knew their selection.
>
> I would expect brand tag to be brand of pub (what AFAIK is rare), not
> list of brands of its inventory.

I agree. `brand` is for (e.g.) `brand=Weatherspoons`. You could use
`sells:Guinness=yes` to record that something is sold. But that's not
always helpful, because (e.g.) there are many pubs in England that sell
Guinness and aren't “Irish pubs”, and Irish pubs which don't sell
Guinness (there's one in my city like that, but they will sell you a
“Black & Tan” 😡).

On 09.10.19 12:08, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> (well, unless you care for/can define the distinction between Irish
> and British pubs)

At a minimum they tend to self identify, having “Irish Pub” in the name.
Or just go in and see if they have green white and orange flags (irish
pub), or big ben, and queen elizabeth pictures (British). (Though
there's a "British" pub in my city with murals of Irish revolutionary
Wolfe Tone on the wall, so 🤷 )

On 09.10.19 00:20, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Bit of an awkward one, but there are pub's in Northern & Inland
> Australia that white people are NOT welcome in (& I'm absolutely
> certain that the same thing, & reverse, applies in many places). Is
> that something that we could / should list against OSM pubs?

“Unwelcoming to $ETHNICY/$RACE” is too subjective for OSM, so doesn't
belong in OSM. Plus with structural racism, you'd almost have to tag
_every_ establishment as “Unfriendly to $MARGINALIZED_GROUP”.

I tried to come up with a clear definition for LGBTQ venues (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lgbtq ), and I think it's
working, and there aren't many venues which are ambiguous.

On 09.10.19 00:15, Dave Corley wrote:
> My way would be to keep it as simple as possible and as logical 
aspossible>

> in both tagging and structure.> Therefore
>
> amenity = pub
> pub = irish
>
> or potentially even
>
> pub:theme = irish

On 09.10.19 16:39, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> I asked about cycle cafés a while back (e.g. 
https://www.cafe-ventoux.cc) and

> the consensus was also to use theme

Simple is important. I do like `theme=irish`, being an adjective, rather 
than a
subtag of "pub", potentially allowing other themed things (like themed 
cafe's

here).

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[OSM-talk-ie] How to map Irish pubs?

[Rory McCann]

Hi there fellow OSMers,

What's the best way to tag an Irish pub? Not just a pub in Ireland, but
a specifically themed "Irish Pub" (which are usually outside Ireland)?

There's ~300 instances of `cuisine=irish`, which would make total sense
for places which (also) serve food. Traditionally pubs in Ireland would
rarely serve food. Calling Tayto's “cuisine” is a stretch, and using the
`cuisine` tag seems weird for a bar/pub that doesn't serve any food.

I've used `theme=irish` once or twice. But I don't think anyone else
does, and it's not supported. This might be related to mapping “sports
bars” or other themed bars. In theory the `theme` of a restaurant/bar
could be different from the `cuisine` of any food/drink it serves, so it
might make sense to tag this difference.

Thoughts?

Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Proposed mechanical edit - elimination of old-style Wikipedia links in Ireland

[Rory McCann]

On 19/03/2019 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

Old style wikipedia link is one where language is stored in key, not in
value.

For example "wikipedia:en=Ireland" is an old style link, while
"wikipedia=en:Ireland" is a form that is currently standard.


To expand, what do you mean here? What makes one the "standard" and the 
other not? What/who consumers wikipedia* tags in OSM and what do they do 
with it? Which format is better for the data consumers? If the 
wikipedia=en:X format is better than wikipedia:en=X format for data 
consumer Y, that's one thing. It just seems to squash a lot of data into 
one, and run the risk of losing data, since many wikipedia tags would be 
removed from OSM...


Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Proposed mechanical edit - elimination of old-style Wikipedia links in Ireland

[Rory McCann]

I'm not sure why one would bother with this, but whatever.

Are they any cases where there are more than wikipedia:XX tag, and what 
will you do in that case? What will the wikipedia tag be?


On 19/03/2019 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:


Old style wikipedia link is one where language is stored in key, not in
value.

For example "wikipedia:en=Ireland" is an old style link, while
"wikipedia=en:Ireland" is a form that is currently standard.

Many old-style Wikipedia links remain and updating them to new style
manually is boring, tedious and some mistakes may appear during this.

Some OSM elements have old-style Wikipedia link without new tag what
means that this data is harder to process for editors and data
consumers.

Also, remaining old-style Wikipedia tags confuse mappers, especially
less experienced.

Therefore I propose to run an automatic edit that will replace
old-style Wikipedia links with current style of Wikipedia links.

Please comment no matter what you think about this idea! I will not
make the edit without a clear support so please comment if you think
that it is a good idea and if you think that it should not be done.

Plan is as follows:

I will take full responsibility for all edits and if anything goes
wrong I will fix it.

Editing is limited to objects with old-style Wikipedia tags is not
conflicting with existing wikipedia=* or wikidata=* tag or other
old-style wikipedia tags.

Links detected as invalid (leading to disambigs, articles about humans,
animals, plants, events etc) are also skipped

Each changeset contains a single element or group of close elements to
avoid edits spanning across large areas (it is impossible in cases
where edited object itself spans very large area)

After every changeset bot sleeps for one minute.

This is proposed as reoccurring edit and may be made as soon as new
old-style wikipedia links appear.

documentation page on OSM Wiki is at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/elimination_of_old-style_Wikipedia_links_in_Ireland

I have experience with automatic edits. exactly the same task was run
in Poland to remove more than 6000 old-style Wikipedia links what was
completed without any issues.

I recently processed also old-style Wikipedia tags across USA.


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Raths / ringforts

[Rory McCann]

I'll retag all the ones I added to the historic=archaeological_site 
site_type=fortification fortification_type=ringfort tagging scheme, from 
the other one. So the numbers will change soon. 🙂


On 06/09/18 13:33, Rory McCann wrote:

Hi all,

I mapped a lot with historical=earthworks earthworks=rath. A few years
brianh came up with a tagging scheme for historic objects like that in
Ireland, and that was the tagging for ringforts, so I used that. I have
no strong attachment to it, and would be willing to change to something
else.

I've mapped them from the GSGS map combined with current aerial, and as
a closed way. We can do more accurate than a node! 🙂

The Archeological Survey of Ireland has all these (and more!) mapped,
and I believe there's some attempt to ask the Dept Culture, Heritage &
Gaeltacht to open that out, but nothing yet. That would certainly aid
mapping.

https://www.archaeology.ie/archaeological-survey-ireland

rory

On 05/09/18 07:05, Colm Moore wrote:

Hi,


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:fortification%20type=ringfort?uselang=en-GB 




Was someone running a project on mapping / tidying-up raths / 
ringforts? I notice many are mapped in Cork and Kilkenny, but few 
elsewhere.


I haven't come across many of these until the last few weeks. In that 
time, I seem to have been tagging them incorrectly.


Can I check the correct tagging is:
historic=archaeological_site
site_type=fortification
fortification_type=ringfort ?

I checked http://stat.latlon.org/ie/latest/ for the word "fort", (I 
didn't check for name~fort or description~fort) and there are many 
tagging variations (not all of these will be ringforts).


archaeological_site=earthworks
archaeological_site=fort
archaeological_site=ring_fort
archaeological_site=ringfort
castle_type=fortification
castle_type=fortress
earthworks=rath
earthworks=ringfort
earthworks=ringfort (rath)
fortification=ring_ditch
fortification_type=hill_fort
fortification_type=hillfort
fortification_type=ringfort
historic=fort
historic=fortification
historic=hillfort
historic=ring fort
historic=ring_fort
inscription=Ring fort
military=fort
note=Ancient fort
note=Ancient ring fort
note=Fawney (fainne) means ring, maybe the site of a ringfort? Was 
also slang to kiss the King/Lords ring. Very interesting as the road 
is called the Royal Oak

note=Fort
note=Not sure if these are Barrows or rath, or what the difference is! 
Ring fort
note=Not sure if these are Barrows or raths, or what the difference 
is! Ring fort

note=Ring Fort?
note=Round Fort?
note=ring fort
note=ringfort
ruins=fort
ruins=ringfort
site_type=earthwork
site_type=earthworks
site_type=enclosure
site_type=fortification
site_type=ring fort
site_type=ringfort
site_type=ringfort;megalith
type=ringfort
wikipedia=en:Ringfort
wikipedia_1=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringfort

How should I proceed?


Colm


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Mead

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Raths / ringforts

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

I mapped a lot with historical=earthworks earthworks=rath. A few years
brianh came up with a tagging scheme for historic objects like that in
Ireland, and that was the tagging for ringforts, so I used that. I have
no strong attachment to it, and would be willing to change to something
else.

I've mapped them from the GSGS map combined with current aerial, and as
a closed way. We can do more accurate than a node! 🙂

The Archeological Survey of Ireland has all these (and more!) mapped,
and I believe there's some attempt to ask the Dept Culture, Heritage &
Gaeltacht to open that out, but nothing yet. That would certainly aid
mapping.

https://www.archaeology.ie/archaeological-survey-ireland

rory

On 05/09/18 07:05, Colm Moore wrote:

Hi,


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:fortification%20type=ringfort?uselang=en-GB


Was someone running a project on mapping / tidying-up raths / ringforts? I 
notice many are mapped in Cork and Kilkenny, but few elsewhere.

I haven't come across many of these until the last few weeks. In that time, I 
seem to have been tagging them incorrectly.

Can I check the correct tagging is:
historic=archaeological_site
site_type=fortification
fortification_type=ringfort ?

I checked http://stat.latlon.org/ie/latest/ for the word "fort", (I didn't 
check for name~fort or description~fort) and there are many tagging variations (not all 
of these will be ringforts).

archaeological_site=earthworks
archaeological_site=fort
archaeological_site=ring_fort
archaeological_site=ringfort
castle_type=fortification
castle_type=fortress
earthworks=rath
earthworks=ringfort
earthworks=ringfort (rath)
fortification=ring_ditch
fortification_type=hill_fort
fortification_type=hillfort
fortification_type=ringfort
historic=fort
historic=fortification
historic=hillfort
historic=ring fort
historic=ring_fort
inscription=Ring fort
military=fort
note=Ancient fort
note=Ancient ring fort
note=Fawney (fainne) means ring, maybe the site of a ringfort? Was also slang 
to kiss the King/Lords ring. Very interesting as the road is called the Royal 
Oak
note=Fort
note=Not sure if these are Barrows or rath, or what the difference is! Ring fort
note=Not sure if these are Barrows or raths, or what the difference is! Ring 
fort
note=Ring Fort?
note=Round Fort?
note=ring fort
note=ringfort
ruins=fort
ruins=ringfort
site_type=earthwork
site_type=earthworks
site_type=enclosure
site_type=fortification
site_type=ring fort
site_type=ringfort
site_type=ringfort;megalith
type=ringfort
wikipedia=en:Ringfort
wikipedia_1=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringfort

How should I proceed?


Colm


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Untagged ways

[Rory McCann]

Yes, just add `(user:NAME)`, or `(uid:NUMBER)`.

e.g.:

 [bbox:{{bbox}}][out:xml][timeout:250];
 (
   way(if:count_tags() == 0)(uid:12345); - (relation; >;);
 );
 out meta; >; out meta qt;

You can find your uid by looking at an object which was last changed by
you, and then "Download XML", and "uid" should be next to "user". You
can also replace `(uid:NNN)` with `(user:"name")`.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Overpass_QL#By_user_.28user.2C_uid.29

On 23/08/18 11:53, Colm Moore wrote:

Hi Rory,


Thanks very much for that, it found what I was looking for. I tried it 
for nodes, but nearly broke Overpass Turbo. :) Is there a way to narrow 
it down by user? Yes I could download all the results, but that seems 
laborious.



In trying to map power=minor_line 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Bji sometimes I add temporary ways where I 
spot a short section of line, but sometimes it's a false positive 
(tractor trail across field, ploughed field, JPEG artifact, etc.). 
Sometimes not all the temporary ways get deleted.



Colm


---
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can 
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead



--------
*From:* Rory McCann 
*Sent:* 23 August 2018 08:10
*To:* Discussion of OpenStreetMap in Ireland; Colm Moore
*Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Untagged ways
Yes! This overpass query finds them:

  [bbox:{{bbox}}][out:xml][timeout:250];
  (
    way(if:count_tags() == 0); - (relation; >;);
  );
  out meta; >; out meta qt;

I have that saved in JOSM's "Download from Overpass API" feature. After
downloading, Ctrl-F to search for "type:way", then add them to to the
todo list plugin window, and work through them one by one. Unfortunately
due to how JOSM downloads them, you can't use "continuous download" to
make it easier.

It's nice if you want something to do, and improves OSM data. Like a
garden that needs weeding, OSM needs people to look over it and tidy it up.

The query works by first searching for all ways which have 0 tags in the
area (`if:count_tags() == 0`). Then it gets all the relations in the
area (`relation;`), and then the ways of those relations (byt 'recusing
down the relations with `>`). It removes the second set of ways from the
first set, leaving all ways with no tags that aren't in any realtions.

Hope that helps

On 22/08/18 23:11, Colm Moore wrote:

Hi,


Is there a way to search for ways that don't have tags or relations tied to 
them?


Thanks


Colm


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Untagged ways

[Rory McCann]

Yes! This overpass query finds them:

[bbox:{{bbox}}][out:xml][timeout:250];
(
  way(if:count_tags() == 0); - (relation; >;);
);
out meta; >; out meta qt;

I have that saved in JOSM's "Download from Overpass API" feature. After
downloading, Ctrl-F to search for "type:way", then add them to to the
todo list plugin window, and work through them one by one. Unfortunately
due to how JOSM downloads them, you can't use "continuous download" to
make it easier.

It's nice if you want something to do, and improves OSM data. Like a
garden that needs weeding, OSM needs people to look over it and tidy it up.

The query works by first searching for all ways which have 0 tags in the
area (`if:count_tags() == 0`). Then it gets all the relations in the
area (`relation;`), and then the ways of those relations (byt 'recusing
down the relations with `>`). It removes the second set of ways from the
first set, leaving all ways with no tags that aren't in any realtions.

Hope that helps

On 22/08/18 23:11, Colm Moore wrote:

Hi,


Is there a way to search for ways that don't have tags or relations tied to 
them?


Thanks


Colm


---
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] I'll be in Ireland, fancy a meet up?

[Rory McCann]

Hi all! Sounds like we might have a plan. 

How about Tuesday at 7pm? Get dinner in town. Wallace's Taverna on Ormond 
Quay/Millennial Walkway? 

All OSMers wellcome.

On 27 May 2018 13:42:23 GMT+01:00, Brian Hollinshead  
wrote:
>Hi Rory
>
>Any sign of any meetup please?
>
>Thanks
>
>
>
>On 17 May 2018 at 09:20, Rory McCann  wrote:
>
>> Hi mappers!
>>
>> I'm going to be in Ireland at the end of May. Anyone fancing a
>OSM-IE-D
>> ish meet up? It would be nice to catch up. I'm only free on Monday
>28th
>> & Tuesday 29th. So I made a little poll:
>> https://framadate.org/iihYQs5WYYXtGV31
>>
>> Hope to see yous soon. :)
>>
>> Rory
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Progress visualisation for Ireland

[Rory McCann]

That's awesome. I made a few images for my SotM 2016 talk about 
townlands( 
https://2016.stateofthemap.org/2016/mapping-irelands-61000-administrative-boundaries/ 
including video! ), here's one of who mapped the townlands:


https://github.com/rory/sotm-2016-talk-townlands/blob/gh-pages/images/townlands-by-user.png

On 17/05/18 14:31, Tadeusz Cantwell wrote:

Ah Cool. Didn't recognise the user name.

On Thu 17 May 2018, 13:29 Heikki Vesanto,  wrote:


Part of my talk at the OSGeo conference next week.

The one one of boundaries really shows the progress of the townlands
project:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/19XqMm4XIVxhmx0yI3I3bT-FiQx1RAvFu/view?usp=drivesdk

-Heikki

On Thu 17 May 2018, 13:21 Tadeusz Cantwell,  wrote:





https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/8k2z73/all_of_the_roads_in_ireland_on_openstreetmap_over/?utm_source=reddit-android

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[OSM-talk-ie] I'll be in Ireland, fancy a meet up?

[Rory McCann]

Hi mappers!

I'm going to be in Ireland at the end of May. Anyone fancing a OSM-IE-D
ish meet up? It would be nice to catch up. I'm only free on Monday 28th
& Tuesday 29th. So I made a little poll:
https://framadate.org/iihYQs5WYYXtGV31

Hope to see yous soon. :)

Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM IRL Annual General Meeting

[Rory McCann]

Hi Ciarán

Good to get proper legal details. Good job. 👍

On 28/02/18 22:18, Ciarán Staunton wrote:
The DAC structure is limiting in the scope of things the company may 
want to do which is why CLG is not recommended.


Did you word this the right way? 😉

The OpenStreetMap Foundation is a Company limited by guarantee as well. 
In the UK, OSMUK is a "Community Interest Company", but I think that's a 
new legal structure in the UK https://osmuk.org/become-member/


It's great to see all of yous getting the ball rolling on this. 😁

Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Is data being corrupted?

[Rory McCann]

On 22/01/18 10:53, Colm Moore wrote:

It may be justifiable for the last edit date not to be updated where

an object within a relation is edited, but the relation itself isn't edited.


Any thoughts?

That's exactly what happens.

When a way (or relation's) tags, or the list of nodes that make it up is
changed (or reorded) then the way (or rel.) gets a new version number
(and hence datetime). But if a node is moved, then that node gets a new
version number (and datetime), but it doesn't change the way.

Which can be a bit annoying if you want do real deep dives into the OSM
history, but it's not that big a problem.

Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Luas Cross City

[Rory McCann]

On 21/11/17 08:18, Colm Moore wrote:

When should the railway be changed from railway=construction to
railway=tram?

When it's open, i.e. when you can ride on it. So anytime after the first
tram leaves the depot.


Stops are currently named "stop_name (November 2017)". Should this be
changed to "stop_name (December 2017)".

No, stops should be just named "stop name". I've never liked that thing
of putting dates in names, since that's not the name!

Rory


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Rory McCann]

Hi,

In Ottawa, Canada there was a university course which ran into some 
problems, eventually atracting the attention of the Data Working Group. 
Here they start a conversation with the local community. The replies (at 
bottom), point out some of the problems that the students made.


   https://www.mail-archive.com/talk-ca@openstreetmap.org/msg07985.html

It looks like some of the biggest problems was that students were not 
responding to changeset comments from the community. Perhaps it's 
important to press to the organisers that OSM is a community, and open 
project, where we work collaboratively. They should interact back when 
the other people interact with them.


Rory

On 01/10/17 00:01, Ciarán Staunton wrote:

DIT Study of Balbriggan

Thanks for the suggestions Donal, Ruairi and Dave, these give me a few
things to explore with the class and teachers.

On using HOTOSM, generally you need some sort of humanitarian/environmental
call to action that is urgent and I don't think Balbriggan has that.
Mapcraft can be explored, and if there are other things that are simpler
now is the time to suggest them.

Now on the big one from Rory (yes it is helpful).

- The mappers will first identify a theme or focus, and map according to
achieving a level of completeness defined by themselves and within a
boundary defined by themselves. At this stage I have suggested (before you
did) they join this mailing list and seek volunteer OSM users to consult on
what tagging might be best
- Students are not paid to map, nor are they instructed to map any
particular way, so they are utterly open to feedback. They are encouraged
to find out what conventional tagging is in use and learn about OSM. The
project hasn't got here yet but my feeling was they would document what
they wanted to do once they start and do it ahead of time so the interested
members of the community could comment
- I will take the suggestion to them that a teacher or class nominee
posts as much as possible up (and what they feel comfortable with) so that
the project is as transparent as possible. However, I would stop well short
of assuming that new users need higher forms of visibility because they are
a class group or because they are new users
- I will be explaining the general principles of OSM to them in a couple
of meetings, it will be made clear that the mapping in Balbriggan is osm
data and not their personal geodatabase


I think we need to focus here, as you did, on the massive shot in the arm
that groups working in particular areas can be to the OSM project overall,
especially if there is a local community link. They will be working with
both the political and community interests in the town, which may give a
further exposure to the fact that there is a big free database called OSM.

Ciaran




On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:45 PM, Rory McCann  wrote:


Hi,

That's a great idea, some minor thoughts and a big one:

If the students use Mapillary that would be great, because it means
other people can check the "source" in case someone made a mistake. And
we can use the mapillary images ourselves to map things the students
might have missed.

JOSM is good, but iD has a new feature where someone can "request
review" which could allow the community to help the mapper¹.

So the big bit:

This is now referred to as "Organized Editing"², and the OSM Data
Working Group is requesting feedback on any Policy that should be
created, similar to the Import Guidelines³ (which you all should fill
out!). It's to cover paid mapping, and (since elitist Germans want to
bash HOT & Missing Maps) any "organised mapathon".

The main question is: Who is telling the mapper what to map? How much
freedom does the mapper have?

If I see a dodgy/bad edit, the OSM approach is to contact the mapper and
talk to them. But if the person who uploaded it is being paid to map it,
then they don't have any freedom to act differently, they're just doing
their job. I can't suggest that someone not add a certain thing, if the
would get fired for not adding it! I should really be talking to their
manager.

Some classes (etc) are designed for the students to learn about OSM, and
the students are only required to map /something/. In which case I have
to talk to the student. It sounds like this is where the mappers will be
told what to map.

I suggest that the person in charge of the project post a diary entry
(they do already have an OSM account, right??) explaining their project,
what their experience with OSM is, where they'll be mapping, what they
will be adding, what the source is, who the team members will be, etc.
All of the team members should probably have a separate OSM account for
the mapping, and in their OSM user profile mention that they are working
on a certain project, and include a link to the person in charge of t

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] DIT study of Balbriggan

[Rory McCann]

Hi,

That's a great idea, some minor thoughts and a big one:

If the students use Mapillary that would be great, because it means
other people can check the "source" in case someone made a mistake. And
we can use the mapillary images ourselves to map things the students
might have missed.

JOSM is good, but iD has a new feature where someone can "request
review" which could allow the community to help the mapper¹.

So the big bit:

This is now referred to as "Organized Editing"², and the OSM Data
Working Group is requesting feedback on any Policy that should be
created, similar to the Import Guidelines³ (which you all should fill
out!). It's to cover paid mapping, and (since elitist Germans want to
bash HOT & Missing Maps) any "organised mapathon".

The main question is: Who is telling the mapper what to map? How much
freedom does the mapper have?

If I see a dodgy/bad edit, the OSM approach is to contact the mapper and
talk to them. But if the person who uploaded it is being paid to map it,
then they don't have any freedom to act differently, they're just doing
their job. I can't suggest that someone not add a certain thing, if the
would get fired for not adding it! I should really be talking to their
manager.

Some classes (etc) are designed for the students to learn about OSM, and
the students are only required to map /something/. In which case I have
to talk to the student. It sounds like this is where the mappers will be
told what to map.

I suggest that the person in charge of the project post a diary entry
(they do already have an OSM account, right??) explaining their project,
what their experience with OSM is, where they'll be mapping, what they
will be adding, what the source is, who the team members will be, etc.
All of the team members should probably have a separate OSM account for
the mapping, and in their OSM user profile mention that they are working
on a certain project, and include a link to the person in charge of the
project. Perhaps they should also details in changeset comments/tags
about the project. This way, if anyone sees a dodgy edit, we know who to
ask about it.

It's also important that the people running this project know about OSM.
Sometimes people think it's a generic geo-data-store, where you have
private layers, and can just store whatever you need to there. Nope,
we're all in one database. So other mappers might come along and
fix/change/improve/delete something you add, if appropriate. This may or
not affect your project. Sometimes people react to this with "We need
the data in this form for our project, stop changing/deleting it". But
if the data is "wrong" (by OSM standards) then tough. This could be a
problem for a project, so they should (i) be aware of it and (ii) have
some idea of what they should do if this happens.

The other thing that could help is for the leader and members to post to
this mailing list, or try to get engaged in the OSM community. OSM is
both a free geo-database, and a community of people who want to create a
free geo-database. Engagement with the community could help them learn a
lot more, get questions answered, get help, etc.

It would be great to spruce up data in some places, and (hopefully)
spawn more mappers!

Hope that helps,

Rory


¹ http://neis-one.org/2017/09/review-requests-osm/
² https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organized_Editing_Policy
³ https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/09/22/dwg-survey-on-organised-editing/

On 27/09/17 00:48, Ciarán Staunton wrote:

Dublin Institute of Technology are running a semester long class study of
Balbriggan. This is with their undergrads B.Sc in Environmental Management
and Spatial Planning. They have decided to use openstreetmap for
Balbriggan, but obviously it would need a lot of detail added to get the
particular data they want.

I have talked to their teachers and advised them on getting JOSM into their
lab machines to do some desktop mapping initially. However, they want to
also survey so I have recommended Mapillary, Street Complete, OSM tracker,
and maps.me... as well as a paper solution with field papers.

Has anyone else heard of a localised effort like this? I think the class
has 20 students.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Email privacy

[Rory McCann]

Hi Colm,

This is relatively common in open source type mailing lists. It's
helpful to be able to see old conversations, and view old decisions.

If you're uncomfortable, you can always use a pseudonym?

Rory

On 26/09/17 07:49, Colm Moore wrote:

Hi,


I note that this mailing list is put on the web here: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2015-July/001272.html


This includes email addresses in the format person at example.com


Is this appropriate?


Colm


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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM Ireland chapter - reboot

[Rory McCann]

I agree with Dave, it would be good to get a formal OSM body set up.

Yes, for doing more mapping events, you don't need a formal body, but
you do it you want to be an OSMF local chapter, and I suspect it would
be easier to talk to government bodies (or big orgs) if you're from an
official body.

And who knows, setting it up might be kick up the arse for some of us!

Since I'm in Germany, I can't come to any of the events. 😞😞😞 But I'll
help how I can... I was involved with setting up TOG, which was
originally an unincorporated association (don't do that!) and is now a
DAC (designed activity company(?))

On 14/08/17 03:52, Dave Corley wrote:

Hi,

First, I want to apologise, this is a long email, but if you are at all
interested in moving OSM in Ireland to the next level, please read on and
give your feedback when you're done.

Efforts to get the OSM Ireland group set up as a legal entity and
established as a recognised chapter have never really got out of the
starting blocks for us, mainly because it's an exceptionally long, boring
process to get it all done.

Back when Rory gave the Townlands presentation at a Sotm or two ago, I
contacted everyone who took part and asked a number of questions to allow
for some stats to be included in the presentation. I asked a few questions
specifically around the topic of setting something up properly. If I recall
correctly, all but one were interested in joining an official OSM Ireland,
but less than half wanted to be involved in setting it up. But that ratio
is to be expected. If I'm honest, it was a lot higher than I originally
expected.

What I would love to see is a functioning OSM Ireland body which, at an
absolute minimum, could do the following

- Scheduling regular meet up's - These would have some organisation
around them e.g. guest speakers, break out groups, objectives etc. This
could be monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly, doesn't matter, just even
setting up a schedule and sticking to it would be a great achievement
- Work on increasing the qty of daily contributors - Some simple things
like automating messages to first time mappers, or a tool to ensure every
new contributor's edits are reviewed for accuracy/vandalism etc. Basically,
just setting up some structure around it to ensure we engage with new folks
in the most efficient and effective ways possible. I see no reason why a
number of 50 a day shouldn't be achievable within an 18 month period if
this is done right.
- Setting up an Import strategy - There is an ever growing pool of open
data being released. To make full use of it is going to require a
signficant body of up-front work (selecting, categorising, prioritising,
tools and import process).
- Lining up other, structured, mapping tasks - For example doing a 1
month blitz on lane mapping, or a 3 month clean-up of errors using Osmi or
keepright etc etc etc. We did this with the enormous townland mapping
project. Smaller scale versions, with a little work, could have a real,
lasting impact on the map
- Commiting to organising a State of the Map yearly. This doesn't need
to have a load of bells and whistles, hell, year one would likely be one
day, but it has to be possible to get a 2 day conference going within 2
years, whatever format it may take (barcamp, unconference etc). There's
enough going on now between mappers, govt, commercial and academic folks
that is easily within reach.
- Lastly, getting out of Dublin. I know Dublin has the biggest
population of mappers, but what about having the meetup in a location
outside of Dub once or twice a year. Or there could be a night away where
we do a load of ground work on the basemap first, then hit the ground in a
town and get every street name, address, business and attraction all in one
day, then meet back somewhere, have a bite to eat and a few drinks.

In my head, I'm seeing each of those things needing 2-3 people to work on
them, i.e. working groups, to ensure nobody gets left holding the bag and
to avoid burnout.

Now, I'd like to say, all of the above is purely what *I* think OSM Ireland
should be about. Others may feel differently, and that's totally fine. It's
kind of the point of this email :)

With all of that in mind, to get us formally set up, what I am proposing is
the following

1. A meeting in early Sept  (the 2nd or the 9th) where we will come
together to hammer out a lot of the basics of setting up OSM Ireland. Note,
this will involve people coming together, agreeing on the structure and,
most importantly, some people agreeing to take some work e.g. research
whats involved in setting up a bank account, what are the legal
requirements, how will we manage membership, etc etc

2. A second meeting in early Oct where the majority of the structure is
locked down. Work to start on Articles of Association etc if required at
this point. Again, some people would need to 

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Bar v pub

[Rory McCann]

On 23/06/17 12:35, Alan Grant wrote:

That raises the question of how we would tag the many Irish or English
style pubs in Spain and other non English speaking countries. Other than a
few places with large expat populations, I think these tend to aim at
tourists and at locals who go there on specific occasions but not as part
of their regular routine.


I've used theme=irish for an "Irish pub".

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Bar v pub

[Rory McCann]

Another idea: Rather that hashing out what's a pub and what's a bar, why
not use additional tags to narrow it down? There are suggestions for
real_ale=yes/no, food=yes/no, microbrewrey=yes/no various ways to say
"they sell this type of draught beer", real_fire=yes/no.

If I see something tagged amenity=bar, real_fire=yes, food=no,
drink:beer:Guinness=draught drink:cider:Bulmers=draught tv=no
cocktails=no, then I know exactly what sort of place to expect!

On 23/06/17 09:55, Alan Grant wrote:

Thanks all for the replies. I am inclined to agree with Rory, there seems
to be little point in worrying too much about establishments that do not
fall clearly into one or the other category. Either way the user of the map
will know that they are places that serve alcohol; beyond that there is a
wide range of individual characteristics (loud music or not? loud music at
certain time of the week? live or recorded music? proper food served from a
kitchen? emphasis on beer or wine or cocktails? open after midnight?
children allowed? dress code?) that can never be fully captured by a binary
bar/pub split.

On 22 June 2017 at 17:22, Rory McCann  wrote:


Hi all,

For the differentiating rule is based on the osm-carto style choice. Is
the normal drink there a pint? Then it's a pub. Is it a cocktail? Then it's
a bar.

Though it's not too important. In Hiberno-English the terms are used
interchangibly. Perhaps in the UK with their brewery pubs and free houses
it's different. The vast majority of the instances in Ireland are pubs, not
bars (we love our pints).

I don't think there's a clear, defined difference between bar & pub. There
are edge cases in Ireland (and I think UK). So maybe tell the Spanish
community that.

Like many things in OSM, there are many right answers. :) We'll never get
anything 100%.

Rory


On 22/06/17 14:50, Alan Grant wrote:


Let me start by introducing myself as I have not posted on talk-ie before.
I am Irish but live abroad and generally follow the Spanish (talk-es)
mailing list.

There is a rather intense debate taking place at the moment on talk-es (31
posts and still going) about whether a typical Spanish neighbourhood bar
should be tagged as amenity=bar, pub, or cafe. Some participants seem to
assume that the bar-pub distinction is clearly defined in English (and
specifically in the English OSM wiki) and that the issue is how to map
that
distinction to Spain.

I am posting here because I wondered about whether Irish mappers do in
fact
think this distinction is well-defined and useful. It seems to me that in
Ireland at least we often use "pub" and "bar" almost interchangeably -
hence pub names such as "The Harbour Bar". Looking at the wiki some of the
criteria seem rather vague or of doubtful relevance - should it matter to
the definition of an amenity if the building that houses it happens to be
modern or purpose-built? What about the suggestion that food is normally
available in pubs - I seem to remember that when I was young many pubs
served little more in the way of food than packets of crisps, does that
mean they were then bars but have become pubs as they diversified into
serving food to the lunchtime crowd?

  From taginfo the pub tag vastly outnumbers the bar tag in Ireland.
Looking
at places tagged as bar, many of them do not seem much different to their
neighbours tagged as pubs as far as I can see.

I suppose I am really asking out of curiosity rather than with any
definite
aim, but any thoughts would be welcome.

Alan
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSi Open Data

[Rory McCann]

Interesting. But the only reference to a copyright licence is the 
"Licensed under “Other (Not Open)”." They also have a keyword of "open 
data" so who know


Without a copyright licence it's "all rights reserved".

A gap in Dublin & Cork is to be expected, there are no townlands there! 
In OSM there are gaps too.


The best source is still https://www.townlands.ie/page/download/  :)

On 23/06/17 04:42, Patrick Matthews wrote:

Not sure whether people were already aware or not, but OSi have released
ungeneralised boundaries for townlands (not including Cork, Dublin or
Galway cities), Small Areas, EDs, etc. on the data.gov.ie portal.

https://data.gov.ie/dataset/townland-boundaries-ungeneralised-osi-national-statutory-boundaries

Regards,

Paddy Matthews.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Bar v pub

[Rory McCann]

Hi all,

For the differentiating rule is based on the osm-carto style choice. Is 
the normal drink there a pint? Then it's a pub. Is it a cocktail? Then 
it's a bar.


Though it's not too important. In Hiberno-English the terms are used 
interchangibly. Perhaps in the UK with their brewery pubs and free 
houses it's different. The vast majority of the instances in Ireland are 
pubs, not bars (we love our pints).


I don't think there's a clear, defined difference between bar & pub. 
There are edge cases in Ireland (and I think UK). So maybe tell the 
Spanish community that.


Like many things in OSM, there are many right answers. :) We'll never 
get anything 100%.


Rory

On 22/06/17 14:50, Alan Grant wrote:

Let me start by introducing myself as I have not posted on talk-ie before.
I am Irish but live abroad and generally follow the Spanish (talk-es)
mailing list.

There is a rather intense debate taking place at the moment on talk-es (31
posts and still going) about whether a typical Spanish neighbourhood bar
should be tagged as amenity=bar, pub, or cafe. Some participants seem to
assume that the bar-pub distinction is clearly defined in English (and
specifically in the English OSM wiki) and that the issue is how to map that
distinction to Spain.

I am posting here because I wondered about whether Irish mappers do in fact
think this distinction is well-defined and useful. It seems to me that in
Ireland at least we often use "pub" and "bar" almost interchangeably -
hence pub names such as "The Harbour Bar". Looking at the wiki some of the
criteria seem rather vague or of doubtful relevance - should it matter to
the definition of an amenity if the building that houses it happens to be
modern or purpose-built? What about the suggestion that food is normally
available in pubs - I seem to remember that when I was young many pubs
served little more in the way of food than packets of crisps, does that
mean they were then bars but have become pubs as they diversified into
serving food to the lunchtime crowd?

 From taginfo the pub tag vastly outnumbers the bar tag in Ireland. Looking
at places tagged as bar, many of them do not seem much different to their
neighbours tagged as pubs as far as I can see.

I suppose I am really asking out of curiosity rather than with any definite
aim, but any thoughts would be welcome.

Alan
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] http://overpass-turbo.openstreetmap.ie/

[Rory McCann]

Good job Donal!

Though I usually just use the global one. :)

On 29/05/17 19:33, Donal Hunt wrote:

Explains why it was working fine for me!! ha!

good job Donal!!

d.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 6:30 PM, Donal Diamond 
wrote:


Actually fix was simple so it is back.

D

On 29 May 2017 at 18:08, Donal Diamond  wrote:


I updated the code yesterday but looks like it has significant changes -
eg it can moved to nodejs,

I don't know when I will get time to fix it.

Use the global http://overpass-turbo.eu/  instead.

You can configure http://overpass-turbo.eu/  to use
http://overpass.openstreetmap.ie/api/ if you want.


D



On 29 May 2017 at 17:06, Colm Moore  wrote:


Hi,


http://overpass-turbo.openstreetmap.ie/


Is anyone else getting the following message with Chrome and Internet
Explorer:


"The browser you are currently using, is (most likely) not capable of
running (significant parts of) this Application. It must support Web
Storage API and cross origin resource sharing (CORS).

Note that you may have to enable cookies and/or "local Data" for this
site on some browsers (such as Firefox and Chrome).

Please upgrade to a more up-to-date version of your browser or switch to
a more capable one! Recent versions of Opera, Chrome and Firefox have

been

tested to work. Alternatively, you can still use the Overpass_API query
form."

Colm



---
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret

Mead

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM-talk-ie] Local chapter application by OpenStreetMap United Kingdom

[Rory McCann]

On 28/04/17 07:09, Paul Norman wrote:

There are no restrictions on what local chapters someone is part of, and
the local chapters need to have a form of incorporation which allows for
easy and mass membership and democratic participation in the decisions
processes[1].


Well that's good and solves that problem.


The restrictions are on what the local chapter can do. They are that the
Chapter represent the interests of the local community in its designated
geographic region[2]. I'm not sure what it would look like with one
chapter representing the interests in Ireland (the island) and another
in the UK, and the overlap in Northern Ireland.


The agreement isn't as bad as I feared, it says "The Foundation will not 
establish any other local Chapter within the geographic region without 
consulting with the Chapter." So there is nothing there that will ban an 
overlapping local chapter, merely that the OSMF will consult OSMUK. It 
looks like the founders of OSMUK are OK with this condominium, so there 
doesn't seem to be any roadblocks from OSMUK in principle...


I'm not sure how specifically to move forward, maybe something more in 
detail in writing from people?


Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Mass edits

[Rory McCann]

On 20/04/17 04:50, Colm Moore wrote:

Fixing these manually is fine when there are only a few, but what is
the simplest way of rectifying these types of errors when there are
dozens or hundreds?


You'd be amazed what you can do with an overpass query, and the JOSM
to-do list plugin. You can really whack away at things.

If that's too big, maybe a MapRoullette challenge?

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Tagging the Ireland/Northern Ireland border

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Paul!

Well it's not *wrong* if you tag the admin_boundary on the way, rather
than the relation. I'd advise that you use the relation, rather than the
way tags, so I'm not sure *why* you've done it. There are downsides to
using the boundary tags,

Be careful of reading too much into the wiki, the wiki is not
definitive, and is often wrong and ignored. OSM is more anarchistic than
a wiki allows. :)

You mentioned on the changeset that you wanted to render country
borders, but not in the sea. Many people don't like the maritime
borders, so you're not alone in that. There are other solutions, such as
re-ordering your rendering to draw sea on top of the land, or processing
the lines in postgis to remove the boundaries which aren't on the land
(ST_Intersection), or using Paul Norman's OSMBorder which tells you if
it's maritime or not.

The downside to tagging the ways is that now the boundary is entered
into OSM twice! ways and relation. We mostly use the relation, so the
ways might get out of sync. Or someone who hasn't read this email will
not know why there are boundary tags, and will remove the tags, and
you'll have redo your work.

Just please don't break our relations! We've spent ages mapping it all,
and it could be easy for someone new to come in and accidentally break
something. :) Just adding admin tags to the way won't do that.

(BTW it's "Ireland" not "Eire" ;) )

[1] https://github.com/pnorman/osmborder

On 10/04/17 22:18, Paul Oldham wrote:
> Hi folks
> 
> We at The Hug are coming to the end of rendering a set of tiles
> for Ireland and we came across an odd issue when rendering the
> border. We tried to use boundary=administrative plus admin_level=2
> as per the wiki[1][2] but when we rendered using that combination
> we realized that there was a problem in that about 75% was so
> tagged and the rest wasn't.
> 
> Some sections were missing both tags, some were missing one.
> 
> So I worked my way through all along the border to ensure the
> entire border had boundary=administrative plus admin_level=2 so it
> was both consistent and tied up with the tagging mandated by the
> wiki. That both helped us and, I thought, was making the OSM data
> more consistent.
> 
> I also found that the much of border had a tag
> boundary_type=nation. We weren't clear where that came from as it's
> not mentioned in the wiki but we were faced with either taking it
> out of lots of sections or adding it to less. Preferring to be
> constructive rather than destructive we opted for the latter.
> 
> I've since had a comment from user SK53 saying that "We're a bit
> puzzled by these edits"[3] (I'm not sure who "we" is in this
> context?) and they said:
> 
>> At the very least you need to discuss this with the Irish OSM
>> community at the talk-ie mailing list.
> 
> So here I am. I think my questions are:
> 
> 1. Are you happy with what I've done?
> 
> 2. If not then can you explain why some of the border was not 
> previously tagged boundary=administrative plus admin_level=2 so
> that I'm clear why it was done that way?
> 
> 3. Does anyone know what the story is behind the
> boundary_type=nation tagging?
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Ringforts

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi.

I've been mapping ringforts myself. However I've been using a tagging
suggested by brianh, and I've mapped about 1,600 of them.

 historic=earthworks
 earthworks=rath

You can sorta see here that I've bee working through Clare & Kerry:
http://taginfo.openstreetmap.ie/tags/earthworks=rath#map

or on histosm: http://histosm.org/#9/-9.04724/52.39236/0/earthworks

I've been using Bing & the GSGS sheets, and I map them if they are
visible on the Bing maps (which IME is nearly always). I think
ringforts are worth mapping. They meet all the requirements for
mapping on OSM.

The National Monuments Service *have* released all of the
Archaeological Survey of Ireland as (a form of) Open Data, however the
licence is CC-BY 4.0, which is not *yet* compatible with OSM. The OSM
Licensing Working Group should reply Real Soon Now™ with how we can
use it. Once they do, we can speed up the mapping of them a lot.

https://data.gov.ie/dataset/national-monuments-service-archaeological-survey-of-ireland


On 08/03/17 19:06, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> Hi Keith, There were some already mapped in my area and so I 
> started mapping some myself here, 
> http://histosm.org/#11/-9.1571/53.827/0/
> 
> HistOSM gives a clearer picture of these kinds of things, the more
>  historical things get, the less relevant they are for OSM though.
> I wonder is it possible to add to HistOSM but not to OSM???
> 
> I have used the following tagging, which I adapted from somewhere 
> else in Ireland. I also try to add the names if possible. historic 
> = archaeological_site site_type= fortification fortification_type
> = ringfort
> 
> But I have seen other tagging schemes such as:
> 
> - historic=archaeological_site - type=ringfort
> 
> 
> 
> - archaeological_site=fort - historic=archaeological_site - 
> name=Abbey Grey Fort - source=GSGS 3906
> 
> 
> 
> - archaeological_site=cashel - historic=archaeological_site - 
> man_made=embankment
> 
> 
> 
> Some might argue that ringforts are not important to map, and I 
> suppose they are insignificant if there is no trace of them
> visible (possibly good to map them for Histosm.org though!).  In
> rural areas, ringforts can be important landmarks and also townland
> names are sometimes named after ringforts and it's rewarding to see
> a ringfort in a certain townland in that case. Note that the 
> rings/ways don't appear in the OSM standard view, just a 
> archaeological symbol.
> 
> I stopped mapping ringforts for a few reasons. (1) There is just 
> way to many of them around (2) not sure of the tagging scheme to 
> use myself (3) Somehow hoping that the National Monuments Service 
> will provide their open data at some point in the future (4) Not 
> sure how useful this data is for OSM. 
> http://webgis.archaeology.ie/historicenvironment/
> 
> As far as I can see there is no "standard" for mapping ringforts
> in Ireland and no way to distinguish Carn/ringforts etc. Hopefully
> we can decide on some standard way of tagging ringforts in this 
> discussion and I would be happy to add them again too.
> 
> Brian T
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Keith  wrote:
> 
>> Helo,
>> 
>> Just wondering if there is any common tags used to tag 
>> ringforts/rath/lios's etc., and if many have been mapped to date 
>> ?
>> 
>> Keith
>> 
>> 
>> ___ Talk-ie mailing 
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing 
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Large number of connemara boundaries broken, user Dafo43 and Potlatch 2.0

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On 26/02/17 18:24, Cormac O Murchú wrote:
> I’m getting sick of cleaning these messes up.

It can be frustrating to see badly mapped OSM data. But there's lots of
it. All over the world. Just fix it up. Or move on. If you want to
discuss something like this on the mailing list, there's probably
nicer ways to do it. Potlatch is a perfectly fine editor, made by
someone who really understands OSM. "Ban Potlatch" has been a joke for
probably 10+ years.

It's not good to break data. Maybe it's broken for a few minutes, but
some of those relations are broken for a few days.  I'm sure there are
ways to ensure that when you finish for the day that you've left the
map in a better way. The osm2pgsql is going to get more strict about
polygons and reject invalid ones, so it might reject this invalid
ones. This will affect the display on the map, and townlands.ie

Rory (who just wants people to get along so we can make a map)

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Gnerating visualisations from a set of OSM XML files.

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've never done what you suggest

But Geofabrik now provides full history dump files for Ireland (and
all others). It might be helpful if you miss a day of a download. You
probably need to use other tools to split that into different file formats

http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/ireland-and-northern-ireland.html

On 02/03/17 20:07, Peter Mooney wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> At the Dept of Computer Science here in Maynooth University I
> currently have two undergraduate students working with me on an
> internship project. One of the key tasks in this project is to
> update existing data and contribute new data to OpenStreetMap in
> the University. Our focus is mapping the changes around the two
> campus from local knowledge and on-the-ground survey. So we are
> mapping everything from our new buildings to litter bins, trees,
> lampposts and sundials! In summary Barry [ 
> http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?barry23] and Stephen [ 
> http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Stephen_Fay] have really embraced the
> challenge.
> 
> On a daily basis we have a Python script which downloads the OSM
> XML for Maynooth and stores this file.
> 
> At the end of their project (late April) we'd like to create a 
> visualization of the changes in the University OpenStreetMap map -
> maybe on a weekly basis (or even daily) - for the duration of the
> internship.
> 
> Has anyone on the IE list done this before? Can anyone give us
> some pointers on what the best approach should be? We're
> considering Mapnik and Maperative. Something we could script with
> Python or similar would be great.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Peter ___ Talk-ie
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Splitting of CIvil Parishes?

[Rory McCann]

I have mapped CPs which cross through the middle of a townland. OSM is
flexible and allows you to do that. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

Yes the PlaceNamesNI site seems to match how you've mapped it in OSM,
however maybe they are using some data model which isn't flexible and
doesn't support more complicated things, and they have a simple hack
like that. Or maybe they're wrong.

Within OSM, the "one real world thing = one OSM object" means that
you've added 3 separate CPs, one called Drummaul, one Ahoghill and a
third called "Ahoghill/Drummaul". I don't think that's correct, I think
there are only 2 CPs here.

OSM would allow you to have overlapping CPs, but I don't think that's
correct either.

I'd suggest mapping the CP as going through the middle of the townland.
Or moving the townland entirely into one or the other CP. The Memorial
Atlas map[1] implies the Drummaul border is more north than where it is
now in OSM.

[1]
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=13&lat=54.81657&lon=-6.34503&layers=BFFFTFF


On 21/02/17 22:10, Stephen Roulston wrote:
> You are quite correct KDDA. “Definitive” is too strong. I too have spotted 
> errors in it, or at least differences between it and other sources. 
> Nonetheless, it is a work of considerable authority from sound academic 
> sources - on such a scale it is unlikely to have avoided all errors.
> 
> I have just dug out Volume 4 of County Antrim I: the Baronies of Toome, part 
> of the place-names of Northern Ireland series which, unfortunately, stopped 
> appearing when the Ulster Placenames Project at Queen’s in Belfast was closed 
> down. This particular volume is by Pat McKay. 
> 
> On p.15, it says:
> 
> “The civil parish of Drummaul (Randalstown) is situated in the barony of 
> Toome Upper, and covers an area of 32,394 acres, of which 11,472 are in Lough 
> Neagh (we stop at the shore, I notice) and 171 in the river Main (Census, 
> 1851). It is bounded on the east by the parishes of Antrim, Grange of 
> Shilnavodan and Connor, on the north by the parish of Ahoghill, on the west 
> by parishes of Grange of Ballyscullion and Duncan and on the south by Lough 
> Neagh. It is made up of 49 full town lands and the greater part of two other 
> town lands - Maghereagh and Ballybollen - each of which has a small portion 
> in the neighbouring parishes of Antrim and Ahoghill respectively.. The parish 
> has a “detached portion’, consisting of the four townlands of Ballynacraigy, 
> Killyfad, Portlee and Ballynaleney, which lie along the north-west shore of 
> Lough Neagh, approximately two miles form the main section of the parish; two 
> of them, Portlesss and Ballynaleney, are themselves divided into two parts, 
> the “detached portion’ in each case lying a short distance to the west of the 
> main townland”
> 
> This would seem to agree with the map as we have it. A complication is 
> perhaps that Dr McKay was involved in both this book and in the 
> placenamesni.org  website - it might be one mistake 
> replicated.
> 
> There seems nothing within the two problematic townlands (Ballybollen and 
> Maghereagh) to say what bits are Drummaul and what bits are not.
> 
> It does seem to confirm the possibility of townlands having parts in 
> different civil parishes.
> 
> Stephen_Co_Antrim
> 
> 
>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 20:34, Killyfole and District Development Association 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I have actually found a few instances where placenamesni.org is actually 
>> wrong!  Especially where there are two or more townlands of the same name, 
>> but 
>> located in different Parishes, split townlands and townlands totally 
>> encompassed in another parish.   I did try to get them to fix the data, but 
>> my 
>> phone calls fell on deaf ears it seems.
>>
>> Most of the issues in my area were easily resolved by speaking to locals and 
>> the Parish map is a brilliant source now as well.
>>
>> http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?
>> zoom=8&lat=53.55822&lon=-7.85303&layers=BF
>>
>> KDDA
>>
>> On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 15:16:23 GMT Stephen Roulston wrote:
>>> I think I may have mapped those. It was a while ago, and I had just started
>>> with boundaries. I remember being very confused.
>>>
>>> If you look at http://www.placenamesni.org/map.php
>>>  and zoom in to the Drummaul area, you
>>> can see that they distinguish between Ahoghill/Drummaul (Ballybollen
>>> townland), Drummaul/Antrim (just Maghereagh townland), as well as Drummaul
>>> on its own (which contains the townland of the same name and many others).
>>> Placename search for Ballybollen on the Placenamesni.org
>>>  site gives the 1851 parish as Ahoghill/Drummaul
>>> as is the current parish. On this definitive site, Magherreagh is said to
>>> be, in the Additional Information, 3/4 in Drummaul par, 1/4 in Antrim par.
>>> Which 3/4, it does not seem to indicate.
>>>
>>> I know we cannot use this

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Splitting of CIvil Parishes?

[Rory McCann]

I have mapped CPs which cross through the middle of a townland. OSM is
flexible and allows you to do that. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

Yes the PlaceNamesNI site seems to match how you've mapped it in OSM,
however maybe they are using some data model which isn't flexible and
doesn't support more complicated things, and they have a simple hack
like that. Or maybe they're wrong.

Within OSM, the "one real world thing = one OSM object" means that
you've added 3 separate CPs, one called Drummaul, one Ahoghill and a
third called "Ahoghill/Drummaul". I don't think that's correct, I think
there are only 2 CPs here.

OSM would allow you to have overlapping CPs, but I don't think that's
correct either.

I'd suggest mapping the CP as going through the middle of the townland.
Or moving the townland entirely into one or the other CP. The Memorial
Atlas map[1] implies the Drummaul border is more north than where it is
now in OSM.

[1]
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=13&lat=54.81657&lon=-6.34503&layers=BFFFTFF


On 21/02/17 22:10, Stephen Roulston wrote:
> You are quite correct KDDA. “Definitive” is too strong. I too have spotted 
> errors in it, or at least differences between it and other sources. 
> Nonetheless, it is a work of considerable authority from sound academic 
> sources - on such a scale it is unlikely to have avoided all errors.
> 
> I have just dug out Volume 4 of County Antrim I: the Baronies of Toome, part 
> of the place-names of Northern Ireland series which, unfortunately, stopped 
> appearing when the Ulster Placenames Project at Queen’s in Belfast was closed 
> down. This particular volume is by Pat McKay. 
> 
> On p.15, it says:
> 
> “The civil parish of Drummaul (Randalstown) is situated in the barony of 
> Toome Upper, and covers an area of 32,394 acres, of which 11,472 are in Lough 
> Neagh (we stop at the shore, I notice) and 171 in the river Main (Census, 
> 1851). It is bounded on the east by the parishes of Antrim, Grange of 
> Shilnavodan and Connor, on the north by the parish of Ahoghill, on the west 
> by parishes of Grange of Ballyscullion and Duncan and on the south by Lough 
> Neagh. It is made up of 49 full town lands and the greater part of two other 
> town lands - Maghereagh and Ballybollen - each of which has a small portion 
> in the neighbouring parishes of Antrim and Ahoghill respectively.. The parish 
> has a “detached portion’, consisting of the four townlands of Ballynacraigy, 
> Killyfad, Portlee and Ballynaleney, which lie along the north-west shore of 
> Lough Neagh, approximately two miles form the main section of the parish; two 
> of them, Portlesss and Ballynaleney, are themselves divided into two parts, 
> the “detached portion’ in each case lying a short distance to the west of the 
> main townland”
> 
> This would seem to agree with the map as we have it. A complication is 
> perhaps that Dr McKay was involved in both this book and in the 
> placenamesni.org  website - it might be one mistake 
> replicated.
> 
> There seems nothing within the two problematic townlands (Ballybollen and 
> Maghereagh) to say what bits are Drummaul and what bits are not.
> 
> It does seem to confirm the possibility of townlands having parts in 
> different civil parishes.
> 
> Stephen_Co_Antrim
> 
> 
>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 20:34, Killyfole and District Development Association 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I have actually found a few instances where placenamesni.org is actually 
>> wrong!  Especially where there are two or more townlands of the same name, 
>> but 
>> located in different Parishes, split townlands and townlands totally 
>> encompassed in another parish.   I did try to get them to fix the data, but 
>> my 
>> phone calls fell on deaf ears it seems.
>>
>> Most of the issues in my area were easily resolved by speaking to locals and 
>> the Parish map is a brilliant source now as well.
>>
>> http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?
>> zoom=8&lat=53.55822&lon=-7.85303&layers=BF
>>
>> KDDA
>>
>> On Tuesday, 21 February 2017 15:16:23 GMT Stephen Roulston wrote:
>>> I think I may have mapped those. It was a while ago, and I had just started
>>> with boundaries. I remember being very confused.
>>>
>>> If you look at http://www.placenamesni.org/map.php
>>>  and zoom in to the Drummaul area, you
>>> can see that they distinguish between Ahoghill/Drummaul (Ballybollen
>>> townland), Drummaul/Antrim (just Maghereagh townland), as well as Drummaul
>>> on its own (which contains the townland of the same name and many others).
>>> Placename search for Ballybollen on the Placenamesni.org
>>>  site gives the 1851 parish as Ahoghill/Drummaul
>>> as is the current parish. On this definitive site, Magherreagh is said to
>>> be, in the Additional Information, 3/4 in Drummaul par, 1/4 in Antrim par.
>>> Which 3/4, it does not seem to indicate.
>>>
>>> I know we cannot use this

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] NI Electoral Divisions and tagging schemes. A Suggestion.

[Rory McCann]

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On 25/02/17 12:10, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> Yes the white space for old Dublin City, on maps.openstreetmap.ie
> worries me gently from time to time. I wonder though whether if the
> townlands are so very old whether we should only tag city centre
> wards as admin-level=10 if they are the oldest wards we can find?

I don't think wards are still in current use, right? Tagging them as
admin_level=10 would mean that they were currently being used.

Adding them as "historic", like baronies, makes more sense.
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[OSM-talk-ie] Splitting of CIvil Parishes?

[Rory McCann]

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Hi,

I'm looking at the logainm import script, and sometimes when it can't
find a match, I look at the data in OSM and manually add a the
logainm:ref if I can figure it out.

And there's a few civil parishes which are tagged in a strange way.
Look at this map here:

http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html?zoom=12&lat=54.77448&lon=-6.29902&layers=BFFFTFF

The "Drummaul" CP. to the south-east is a small, one townland CP
called "Drummaul/Antrim", and to the north-west is
"Ahoghill/Drummaul". The memorial atlas doesn't show those as
different CPs. In Logainm there is only one "Drummaul". There is a lot
of other examples of tiny little CPs which seems to be a "mix" of 2
others.

My first reaction would be to delete them and fix up the CP
boundaries, but is there a good reason for them to be tagged this way?
What's the source for these other CPs, since they are not on the
Memorial Atlas, or Logainm?

When these are cleaned up, we'll be able to match up more things to
logainm.

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Rory McCann]

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On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and
> Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should
> be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X
> or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The
> thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in
> OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis... 
> https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx

OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it alone
then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a
logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is
quicker than programming complicated rules.

> It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :)
> ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it.
> Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps.  More
> interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in
> Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those
> languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say
> move over to the left, you would say move east or something
> like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map.

Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the mouth
of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because
that's near where the Rhine starts. So when you see "Upper X" that's
usually more "upsteam" or something.

> I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not
> seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two
> townlands.

I don't know if I've seen it with townlands. It's more common with
Civil Parishes.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Rory McCann]

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On 16/02/17 20:38, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> I have a question about the logainm script, How can it handle a
> barony that crosses a county border? For example, Barony of Ross
> crosses the Galway-Mayo border as one relation. This relation has
> one logainm tag for Ross in Mayo (logainm:ref = 172) but there are
> separate loganim ref numbers for Ross in Galway (logainm:ref = 85)
> on the logainm website. Can we somehow add both ref numbers to the
> Barony relation? something like logainm:ref=172;85, or what do you
> suggest? It seems that the script assumes everything is nested
> inside counties but if baronies/civil parishes cross county
> borders, then they have two logainm ref numbers.
> 
> https://www.logainm.ie/en/85   Galway 
> https://www.logainm.ie/en/172 Mayo 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4128697

I'll have to think about what exactly the code does in that case and
get back to you. As you can see it has only assigned on logainm code.

In my mind logainm:ref=172;85 is the right answer, since this one OSM
object represents 2 objects in Logainm. You can also have one object
in Logainm which corresponds to 2 (or more) OSM objects.

The logainm import code will never change a logainm:ref value that's
there already. In accordance with long standing OSM convention, human
mapping is viewed as better than what the script does. If the logainm
script has done something wrong (like this case), then you can, and
should, correct OSM manually.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Rory McCann]

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Some great, detailed advice here! 👍

Townlands.ie shows how many objects have logainm:refs:
https://www.townlands.ie/progress/#logainm It's currentlya botu 73% of
townlands.


On 17/02/17 14:51, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> Alternative names or 'typos that are not typos': (A) Many townlands
> have two official names on the map source, "Ballindoo or 
> Doocastle". Both are valid, We should try to find out which one is 
> commonly-used/dominant and use that one in the name= tag and the
> other in the alt_name= tag.

The logainm match up will only look at the name:en tag (or failing
that the name) tag. It doesn't look at the alt_name (etc) tags.
Perhaps it should. likewise it should split "X and Y" into "X" and "Y"
and look at them.

> (B) A name structure variation is valid, "East X" = "X East". We
> don't have to add every variation but if you come across them, you
> can add them. The idea is that if someone searches for a townland,
> we want them to find it no matter what variation they use. The
> example above is trivial for search but something like Inishmore
> Vs. Inish More. Also consider, Upper/Lower, Island, More/Beg
> Oughter/Eighter etc.

The logainm script is aware of North/South/Upper/etc and will try to
match based on that. It is able to tell that "X Upper" in Logainm is
the same as "Upper X" in OSM (and vice versa etc).

A few of these will be added to the logainm match up. I wasn't aware
of them:

> (C) Missing spaces can be valid names. e.g. Inishdeashmore = 
> Inishdeash-more = Inishdeash More
> 
> (E) X Deme(ns)e and X Deme(sn)e. I suggest sticking to Deme(sn)e as
> this is what is on the map source. (H) Apostrophes in names. I'm
> getting a bit too in-depth here but I
might
> as well mention it. The old maps do not contain apostrophes in
> names. "Georges Island", "Abbots Island". Some name tags are now
> "George's
Island"
> etc. I suggest to keep "Georges Island" as an alt_name in this
> case.


> (G) Some townlands are named "Part of X" or "X (part of)". This
> means it is a separate part of a nearby townland. Usually, you will
> find an "X" townland nearby, that was split. I suggest we write the
> name of these as "X (part of)".

Are you sure about this? That would make 2 townlands, called "X" and
"X (part of)". I thought if the map has a "X part of" displayed that
it meant that little part was an exclave of the larger X townland, and
I've been mapping them as such.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Rory McCann]

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On 16/02/17 16:40, Mark Tully wrote:
> There is also a umap at 
> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing-logainm-data_838
33
>
> 
which displays townlands without a logainm:ref tag.  This might be usefu
l
> in helping to locate townlands with typos.  Bear in mind that it
> only displays data above zoom 11 (to try to reduce browser
> slowdowns).
> 
> Mark

That's pretty cool! I've done overpass queries to find CPs/etc which
don't have a logainm:ref, but not umap like that.

Yes you can add/change the name tag on OSM, but if you manage to find
the townland on logainm, you can directly add the logainm:ref tag
yourself.

The loganm match up code looks at counties, then baronies, then civil
parishes, then townlands. So if it cannot match up a CP in OSM with
Logainm, it's not able to match up any of those townlands in the CP.
It's look at the name, but if there's a logainm:ref, it'll use that
instead.

If you add logainm:ref tags to civil parishes, then it might be able
to add logainm details to more townlands.

(BTW it doesn't work over https, and if you have the HTTPS Everywhere
extension like I do :) )
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Rory McCann]

Hi!

On 15/02/17 16:36, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> just to follow up on my own post, another way to tackle this is to take a
> look at Rory's Loganim import page on townlands.ie which I highly recommend
> you take a look at.
> https://www.townlands.ie/static/logainm/
> 
> Each red x on these pages means that the loganim irish names tags are not
> in OSM for that place.
> As far as I know, they were automatically added for the places where the
> names in Loganim list matched those in OSM (or at least id's matched?). So
> a red x can indicate that there is a spelling mismatch or the place is
> missing.
> It's a good place to start if you want to correct typo's in place names.


Minor point, that page doesn't look at the name, but at the
"logainm:ref" tag. If there's a "logainm:ref" tag, then it gets a green
tick, red X means no logainm:ref. That page is updated every morning.

The (ongoing) Logainm data match up and import (wiki page[1], script
source code[2]), looks at the logainm:ref tag and added the name:ga tags
from logainm if needed. That script will also look at the name (or
name:en) tag and try to match it up to what's in logainm and set the
logainm:ref tag as appropriate. If there is a typo in the name (or OSM
and Logainm disagree about the name), then it won't be able to set the
logainm:ref tag, and hence there'll be a red X there.

I'm going to run that script again this weekend at the Karlsruhe Hack
Weekend. Perhaps I will look at that OSi open data and try to find
places where OSM & OSi (and maybe Logainm!) disagree. We have ~60,000
townlands, maybe filtering that list down to smaller list of "possible
problems" will be easier.


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logainm_Import
[2] https://github.com/osmie/logainm-osm-import

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[OSM-talk-ie] MapLesotho group are away!

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

The Irish MapLesotho group are off again and are visiting Lesotho as we
speak!

They're tweeting under the #MapLesotho hashtag which you can see here:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23MapLesotho

Rory

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] What to do about sloppy mapping errors

[Rory McCann]

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Hi Adrian!

On 11/01/17 21:46, Adrian Thomas wrote:
> I've recently retired and moved to live in West Cork.  As an
> experienced hill walker I have been using GAIA GPS to explore new
> routes across the hills and mountains in the west of Ireland.

And welcome to OSM!

We have a few hillwakers here (in OSM Ireland and OSM globally). I
like a bit of hiking myself. There's a few hiking sites based on OSM:

 * https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/
 * http://hikebikemap.org/
 * General info about walking routes etc:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walking_Routes
 *
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ireland/Irish_Waymarked_Walking_Trail_Network


> noticed that some local features such as buildings were missing
> from OSM so I enroled as a contributor a few months back.  I spent
> a happy evening adding local features which I know exist  using the
> aerial photo backdrop for accuracy.

Great stuff.

> I was quite disheartened next day when less than half of my new
> additions appeared on the map so I haven't been back.

That's a shame. As others have noted, it's a chance that your web
browser is caching the map images locally and isn't showing you the
new, updated ones. If you load the same area in an Incognito
mode/Private Browsing mode, it will not use that old cache and you
might see the data fresh. You can also clear your browser cache (this
page has guides: http://www.refreshyourcache.com/ ).

If it is the cache, and you do nothing, it should appear in about a
week (since your computer only caches it for about a week)

Another option is simple mistakes. A motorway is highway=motorway, if
you enter "highwya=motorway" it won't work. Happens to the best of us
sometimes :)

If you tell us the area, and what you expect to appear, we can have a
look and provide more specific feedback.

> However, I have recently noticed quite a number of significant
> errors on OSM in my locality and I'd really like to EITHER go in
> and correct someone else's carelessness OR simply report the
> error(s) and let someone else put them right.  I think I could
> contribute quite a lot to OSM in West Cork and Kerry simply by 
> checking out stuff which I suspect to be wrong.

That'd be great! If you want to fix the errors, go ahead! That's the
best and more straight forward approach. Just edit the map and fix it!
The closest thing to a "report" functionality is to leave a note on
the map. "A pub is missing here" that kind of thing. Though those sort
of notes are best dealt with by local mappers in the area, which
well... ;)

> For instance north of Bantry is a well known col shown as "Priest's
> Leap 572m" despite the fact that a) it isn't that high, b) it's
> shown below the 450m contour and c) even the nearby hill top is
> only 520m.  This isn't even a typo because it isn't 472m either!

Huh. It looks like that ( https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/332372918
) is from the Mountain View data import from 2009. Practically
prehistoric by OSM standards! The mountain view page is here
http://mountainviews.ie/summit/413/ I think others have explained how
"elevation" is tagged.

> Some of my other "errors" relate to features shown as roads which
> are actually overgrown tracks which you couldn't even walk along
> much less drive and certainly NOT a public road.

OSM is more than just roads. We can add walking paths and such.

> In one case there is a "track" across a field on OSM which was
> shown on the aerial photos as no more than the marks left by a
> tractor on one pass.  Definitely neither a road nor a track.

There's nothing wrong with this per se. If a farmer just drove across
a field on the day the aerial imagery was taken, and left an
indentation in the ground, then yes, don't map that. But if it's an
actual track, then by all means map that. You can use the tracktype
tag to specify the track quality, with tracktype=grade5 being like you
describe. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype

As I'm sure you know, if you're hiking, you would be willing to walk
down a tracktype=grade5.

> Am I authorised to start cleaning up these blunders or should I
> just go back to using OS maps?

Of course you are "authorised"! Everyone is authorised. There is no
authorisation for anyone to give or revoke. (It is possible to block
vandals though, lest you think we're an anarchy.)

If you can improve the map (either adding new data/information, or
correcting old data), then by all means do it! You don't need to ask
permission.

If you're worried about mistakes, you can tell us your OSM username,
and we can have a look over what you add, and give you any pointers
and double check what you've done. There are many tools in OSM to
"undo"/revent work that someone has added, so if you really mess up,
and want one of us to undo it for you, we can do that.

Hope that helps. Feel free to email this list (or me privately if
you'd like), if you have any more questions. We were all new once.

Rory

-

[OSM-talk-ie] Are Civil Parishes currently used by Church of Ireland?

[Rory McCann]

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Hi,

Something I've wondered about, but I was never sure. Maybe someone can
answer.

Are Civil Parishes the same parishes as currently used by the Church of
Ireland? I know they aren't the same as Roman Catholic parishes. Or has
the CoI changed their parishes and the CPs aren't the same? Or how does
it all fit together?

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Schools: UK experience

[Rory McCann]

On 17/12/16 00:45, Dave Corley wrote:
> Those tools look great. I'm especially interested in the map roulette
> aspect as I see it being very useful in terms of us consuming government
> data,  in particular where there has been a lot of mapping done already
> i.e. Schools, Fire stations, libraries etc etc.

MapRoulette is definitively something I can see us using.

There used to be a web service http://poichecker.de/ designed for
"merging" an external data source into OSM. It's from the people who
make wheelmap. There's a short video from SoTM-EU 2014[1]. It's designed
for these "imports" where there is already some mapped data.

But it looks broken now and doesn't work. Shame


[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAQE1dLgGoM&t=29m51s



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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Schools

[Rory McCann]

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On 10/12/16 18:17, Cormac O Murchú wrote:
> Problem is they are centroids like Logaimn data and not polygons.
> 
> They are also in ITM 75 format  which is not open data. Open data
> should come in an open format. Bulk converting these is trivial but
> that is not the point.
> 
> Schools should be mapped as multipolygon areas as they have yards
> and pitches and parking attached.

Yep. We shouldn't just convert the points to nodes, and upload to JOSM.

However we can look at OSM where that point is, and see if there is a
school in OSM there, and if not, add it.

We can also use the data to add other data, like school names,
education level, religion etc.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Using CC-BY datasets on data.gov.ie for OSM - Good to go :)

[Rory McCann]

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On 07/12/16 10:05, Rory McCann wrote:
> On 07/12/16 03:33, Dave Corley wrote:
>> I've received clarification that while the CC-BY 4.0 license is 
>> not suitable for merging with OSM
> 
> Not quite. The problem is that CC-BY 4.0 on it's own is vague and
> may or may not be suitable for OSM.

I might have jumped the gun here. Dave is right. There are possible
concerns with CC-BY 4.0 What I wrote about attribution is relevant for
CC-BY 1, 2, 3 and 4. But 4 has some additional, possible problems.

You can read more on the legal-talk@ thread here:


https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2016-December/008558.html
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Using CC-BY datasets on data.gov.ie for OSM - Good to go :)

[Rory McCann]

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Hi Dave!

Some great work there!

On 07/12/16 03:33, Dave Corley wrote:
> I've received clarification that while the CC-BY 4.0 license is
> not suitable for merging with OSM

Not quite. The problem is that CC-BY 4.0 on it's own is vague and may
or may not be suitable for OSM.

It's the "attribution" requirement. Section 3(a)(1)(A) of the CC-BY
4.0 licence[1] covers that and says that you need to attribute them
"in any reasonable manner requested by the Licensor". So the Licensor
is allowed pick how you attribute them.

If someone were to say "You have to put my/our name on every map you
make based on that" that would be a problem for OSM. (a) It's wildly
impractical because there's be thousands of them on every little map
and (b) the OSM licence doesn't/can't require that users-of-OSM have
to do that, so it's not even something "we" can require.

If someone were to say "Yeah, the OSM Contributors wikipage[2] is
totally fine for the BY requirement!" then we'd be all set for OSM usage!

In a way, just saying "It's CC-BY!" isn't really open data, since it
leaves some important conditions unset. However most users of CC data
(e.g. films, art) don't have this problem.

However, I think we're golden, because the data.gov.ie licence page[3]
says if using data from many people you can link to a page which lists
the data.gov.ie/etc attribution. OSM has ~1 million contributiors (so
that's the "multiple sources" covered), and you have to link to the
OSM copyright page[4] which links to the OSM Contributors page[2].

So according to the data.gov.ie, and OSM licence, we can import
data.gov.ie CC-BY 4.0 stuff into OSM! \o/

Now if OSM were to change it's licence again, we might be in problem.
But no-one wants to go through that again. But that hasn't stopped
anyone before.

So thanks Dave, but looks like it was all OK from the start. Ah
well, at least they know about us.

> the granting of explicit permission to use CC-BY 4.0 datasets by
> the relevant owner is allowed.

In theory, this is true of any closed dataset. Anyone can say "100%
closed copyright, all rights reserved, except OSM, yous can trace".
Just like the Bing aerial imagery.


[1] https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/legalcode
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors
[3] https://data.gov.ie/licence
[4] https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Schools

[Rory McCann]

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On 06/12/16 05:44, Colm Moore wrote:
> Someone, it might have been Rory looked at geocoding all schools,
> but the data available was, err, of poor quality.

Yep, that was me. In February this year I looked into it[1]. I tried
to geocode the addresses. But Irish addresses are very hard to
geocode. Especially when the address is "St. Whatever School, Sneem,
Co. Kerry".

> daft.ie have issues their (post-primary) schools report:
> http://www.daft.ie/report/daft-schools-report-2016.pdf using data
> from the Department of Education, so someone seems to have gone to 
> the effort of mapping them properly.

The Dept of Education already has a webpage which has the location of
schools[2]. I suspect Daft are using that. It's just that that page
has no copyright information, which means it's "all rights reserved",
and not usable for us in OSM. It's possible the location of the school
is based off OSi maps or something.

If someone wants to ask the Dept. Ed. to open that data, please go
ahead! :)

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym/diary/37887
[2] http://www.education.ie/en/Find-a-School/
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Wanted OSM shapefile of Ireland and province outlines, otherwise blank

[Rory McCann]

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Hi Brian,

I have just set up a a province extract on townlands.ie

You can download the shapefiles here:

https://www.townlands.ie/static/downloads/provinces.zip

I haven't updated the download page yet.

It will be updated every day, like the rest of the townlands.ie data.

Rory


On 06/12/16 12:38, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> The Genealogical Society of Ireland are collaborating with the
> Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland on local greatgrandparent DNA
> comparisions.
> 
> They have been using OSM with leaflet layers showing the centroids,
> areas covered by each group of eight greatgrandparents and and
> their individual locations beside an interactive list of
> participants. (which my son and I did for them as they had some
> difficulties using Google)
> 
> I have now been asked if I can provide them with an OSM shapefile
> of all Ireland with provincial boundaries but no other detail. They
> needed one for a poster for display at a conference in the Conway
> Institute in UCD this week and settled for just an Ireland outline.
> Because this study when complete will be published internationally
> i would like them to be able to use OSM for all map images.
> 
> Please can someone either send me a file or explain to me how I can
> create one for them.
> 
> Thanks ___ Talk-ie
> mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Is mise Seán

[Rory McCann]

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Hello Seán!

Welcome to OSM!

There are many ways to get involved. It all depends on your interest.
Just keep poking around with what interests you. Message the mailing
list, or the IRC channel ( #osm-ie on OFTC ), Facebook group, Twitter
account, etc. 🙂 We're all happy to help. We all started out somewhere.

On 13/11/16 22:59, Seán Lynch wrote:
> - What is the general standard of quality of addresses in Irish 
> cities? Are many areas of city centers blanked out or lacking in 
> quality? What areas need and are currently receiving attention?

I'm not sure. There is a 'address' tool on the OSM Inspector (
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=addresses ) which can show you
some debugging things for addresses.

One of the easiest ways to find missing areas, is to look at the OSM
map. House number/names are displayed from zoom 17 onwards, so just
scroll around and look for no numbers/names? If you have a lot of
addresses, you could try geocoding them and seeing where there are no
results.

> - Secondly, has the community agreed upon a standardized address 
> format for Ireland? Is 'county' = 'Cork' or 'Co. Cork' ? ... etc. 
> There seems to be a lot of common errors which annoying to have to 
> debug and correct. Is there something being done about this?

Addressing in OSM is kinda in two parts. (a) How to store the address
data in OSM, and (b) how software (geocoders) should display it. For
(a) we just add the housenumber/name to the point/building, and then
the street name. Counties and the like are stored as administrative
boundaries and usually are in as "County Cork".

For (b), it's much harder. Writing software which can display
addresses in a sensible way for the whole world is hard. In theory
it's up to the geocoder to decide what and how to display the address,
which is where "Cork" vs "Co. Cork" vs "County Cork" would come into play.

What sort of errors are you seeing? I haven't done much geocoding with
OSM.

> - Thirdly, is anyone providing data at the sub-national level for 
> Ireland?

Not that I'm aware of. There is the Mapzen Metro Extracts service (
https://mapzen.com/data/metro-extracts/ ) which provides OSM data for
Dublin and Belfast regions. I think you can make your own extracts.

However the data for Ireland is not so large. In my experience you can
import it into PostgreSQL in about 10 minutes on a desktop machine,
and then cut out the area you want and produce a shapefile of just
that area.

Likewise osmosis can be used to process a PBF file and cut out just a
small area if you want.

Though someone did jokily suggest to me to provide OSM PBF extracts at
a townland level. 😛

> I only discovered http://planet.openstreetmap.ie/ and this is a 
> great resource- thanks to whoever got this together. May I suggest 
> providing some trial shp data and an example of where data is 
> lacking or could be improved?

I provide some shapefiles on townlands.ie for some administrative
boundaries: https://www.townlands.ie/page/download/ I don't think
that's quite what you're looking for.

> - Finally, I have a more technical question- I am trying to devise 
> a strategy to capture the results from reverse geocoded requests 
> and correctly store them in their respective db columns. The count 
> of the address array and the keys (php) are dynamic. Is there a
> set of keys for addresses that someone can recommend? Eg. there is 
> commonly 1 value either for "suburb" or sometimes the key is 
> "locality" and other times it is "city_district" and there are 
> probably more keys I need too. Can someone recommend a strategy? 
> Alternatively I am considering counting the array and hard coding 
> the values in by index.. thoughts??

I'm not really sure. It depends on your geocoder. Some will always
return a specific set of keys for each (succesful) geocode. It can
also depend on what you want to do with the data etc.

Hope that helps. 🙂

R

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] 'Ireland'

[Rory McCann]

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On 20/08/16 09:01, Colm Moore wrote:
> Given that we have two re;ations, Ireland the island and Ireland
> the country, I'm wondering if we should rationalise things and
> remove Ireland the node (it's in an arbitrary location in
> Tipperary)?

That node is a member of the Ireland relation as the "label" role. It
supposed to mean "If you want to put the label for this polygon, put
it here". Which could result in better maps.

However I don't think anyone is using that feature of OSM mapping
data. But many countries have it.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Mobile speed camera zones

[Rory McCann]

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On 18/08/16 21:37, Daniel Cussen wrote:
> To answer a question asked in another thread, I have not progressed
> this yet. I think Rory may be the ideal person to progress if he is
> willing to volunteer.
> 
> I think what needs to be done is all mobile speed camera zones in
> ROI need to be removed, and then the data formatted and imported
> into OSM.
> 
> Rory are you interested?

Oh go on then! ☺ I'll help. I'll wait for an all clear on the licence
front before doing anything.
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[OSM-talk-ie] History of Townlands - What can we put on a slide?

[Rory McCann]

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Hiya,

As yous know, myself and Dave are doing a talk about townlands at the
global OSM conferences, State of the Map, in Brussels in September.

Can anyone tell me more about the history of townlands? Something nice
to add to a slide?

I've heard that townlands were mentioned in the Táin Bó Cúailnge. Can
anyone tell me more about this?

I looked at [the scans of the Lebor na hUidre (Book of the Dun
Cow)](https://www.isos.dias.ie/master.html?https://www.isos.dias.ie/libraries/RIA/RIA_MS_23_E_25/english/index.html?ref=http://www.isos.dias.ie/libraries/RIA/english/ria_menu.html?ref=),
is anyone able to point to a word on a page and say "This is townland
X in Co. Whatever". (I tried it myself, but er, it's Old Irish). It
would impress to the Americans & other Europeans that the townlands
are ancient, and a part of our history, heritage and culture. We
didn't spend all these years mapping them just cause.

Any hints?
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Police Stations

[Rory McCann]

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On 13/08/16 23:02, Donie Kelly wrote:
> When did we get the GoSafe zones? Are they up to date. What's the
> tag called?

Dan got permission here:

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2016-June/001584.html

I don't think it's actually been imported yet...
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Police Stations

[Rory McCann]

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On 12/08/16 16:29, Colm Moore wrote:
> I did a big tidy up of police stations (Garda, PSNI and minor
> forces) over the last few days. I'm coming up with about 400 Garda
> stations, out of approximately 650. I'm not sure how many PSNI
> stations there are. Given that the Garda have given us the GoSafe
> speed zones, I wonder if they might do the same with stations? The
> Garda maintains pages like this:
> http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=7808 Unfortunately, you
> have to click on the 'Open Station X in Google Maps' link to get
> data like the opening hours, grid location and StationID. I have
> the name of the person who maintains these pages.

Quick gander at it, and you can download a KMZ file of all the
locations and names here (
http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Garda_Stations.kmz ), and that if
you know the Station Ref, you can get the detail from this URL: (
http://www.garda.ie/Stations/Map.aspx?gardaKMZFilename=Garda_Stations.kmz&Mode=gardaUseDOM&Args=$REF
). So maybe we could scrap it.

Or they could give us a database.

Fingal County Council are always ahead of the game here, and have
released the data in their CoCo:
https://data.gov.ie/dataset/garda-stations

Rory
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[OSM-talk-ie] Taggging of CoI Churches / denominatim Re: Church of Ireland

[Rory McCann]

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On 12/08/16 16:19, Colm Moore wrote:
> In parallel, there is a material issue with the way that religious 
> sites are being labelled. Quite a few Christian denominations
> claim to be Catholic, but aren't Roman Catholic. 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term) On OSM, 
> denomination=catholic (1256 entries) seems to be used
> interchangeably with denomination=roman_catholic (440).

I came across denominatim=catholic vs denominatim=roman_catholic
before and have ignored it. "catholic" seems to be winning, both in
OSM and in common speech. I'm not that opposed to
denominatim=roman_catholic thought.

> Similarly denomination=protestant (62) is used, which may be
> unthinking.

That sounds incorrect. denominatim=anglican would be better. Perhaps
an Overpass query to find and change those objects?

> That said, smaller denominations do sometimes share buildings / 
> sites, e.g. Christ Church in Leeson Park has Methodist, Church of 
> Ireland, Romanian Orthodox and I think one other Orthodox groups. 
> Some other buildings / sites, like funeral homes and cemeteries
> carry religion=multi-denominational (2) and religion=multifaith
> (20) tags

Perhaps the semi-colon separator could be useful here?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Semi-colon_value_separator

- -- 

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Church of Ireland

[Rory McCann]

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On 12/08/16 16:19, Colm Moore wrote:
> I spoke to one of their IT people and they are familiar with OSM
> and are favourably inclined to facilitating us. They can provide us
> with a KML of their current churches (and possibly other public
> buildings / sites). The KML file feeds these pages: 
> http://ireland.anglican.org/information/dioceses/parish/14810 How
> do we go about sorting an OSM licence? Who will be able to help me
> with uploading the data? :) I'm happy to 'take charge' of things
> after that.

I'm willing to help with any OSM data import.

First question is copyright. Why did they get the data? Do they own
it? Did they copy it from an map from OS/OSi/Google Maps? Then we
can't use it. :(

If it's all OK, copyright-wise then we can look at importing it. Or
using it as a base map to manually add it to OSM. Instead of a full
blown import, it might be faster to use MapRoullette to help people
manually add data. Depends on the size.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Lack of attribution to OSM by ESRI on Carlow maps

[Rory McCann]

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On 10/08/16 17:08, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> I had asked if they had the text copyright free source for the Two 
> Municipal Districts of Carlow and Bagnelstown. He has spoken with
> their GIS man and he has offered to send it to me in .shp format if
> we can import from that?

Yes, .shp file is OK.

If it's just 2 boundaries I think it would be easier to just display
the boundaries in JOSM and manually create the boundary in OSM, right?
The OpenData JOSM plugin can apparently do that.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Lack of attribution to OSM by ESRI on Carlow maps

[Rory McCann]

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On 09/08/16 19:39, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> Is there someone somewhere in OSM that I should copy this to?

The Licensing Working Group deals with other people who have infringed
on the OSM licence.

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licensing_Working_Group

If you get no-where you can contact them at le...@osmfoundation.org
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] pokestops

[Rory McCann]

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On 25/07/16 15:45, os...@tutanota.com wrote:
> That was quick.

:) I had my email open

> With an "We've all been there" follow up question. When you say
> delete them, do you mean just go in and select the nodes and delete
> or is there a better way to handle it?

You can just delete the nodes, yes. In theory you could do a revert of
the changeset, but TBH it's a small changeset, so it'd be quicker to
just manually delete it. It'll appear the same in the database.
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] pokestops

[Rory McCann]

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Delete them. Pokestops do not belong in OSM. They are bad edits. I've
left a changeset comment. It looks like a new mapper who probably
don't know any better. We've all been there.

On 25/07/16 15:31, os...@tutanota.com wrote:
> What is the protocol for edits like this?
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41001116
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM.org and Townlands.ie now both on NLI usefull links page.

[Rory McCann]

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That's great Brian!

Maybe at some point we should make a little flyer about OSMie to be
able to give to people that explains all that.

On 23/06/16 22:38, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> The National library added OSM.org to their useful links page some
> time ago, they have now added townlands.ie
> 
> http://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-links.aspx
> 
> Also to the the PCs visitors to their genealogy services area use.
> 
> Maybe more of us should ask any public library we walk pass to do
> the same, particularly one with a local studies section. I have
> found many are unaware of us and pleased with the information. BTW
> I introduce it as an OpenStreetMap Resource, it gets a better
> reaction and they are less likely to regard it as another
> Google-Map thing. ___ 
> Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] When is a townland a townland (and when is it 2+ townlands)?

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hi all,

Thanks for the replies, it looks like there are many good reasons for
things to be mapped this way. I won't change anything.

I'll tweak the logainm import script to not throw an error in these case
s.

Rory

On 29/05/16 11:39, Rory McCann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> A while ago I mentioned a possible problem with the Logainm data 
> import, where 2+ townlands were getting the same logainm
> reference[1]. Upon closer investigation, I don't think this is a
> bug with the import process, but a question of "Is a townland is
> one townland or many townlands?".
> 
> Consider Graiguealug townland in Carlow. It's in OSM as 3
> different townlands: OSM ids
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2196774 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2274862 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2274863 all touching each 
> other. Each is in a different civil parish[2].
> 
> However Logainm only has one entry http://www.logainm.ie/en/3531
> which is in 3 different civil parishes. Logainm allows one townland
> to be in more than one CP. If you look at the GSGS map, only one
> townland is shown on the map, and the total area (~400 acres) is
> similar to the total off the 3 townlands in OSM.
> 
> It looks like one townlands was split into 3 townlands so that
> each townland would be in one and only one CP.
> 
> However I don't think this is the right approach. I think the OSM 
> philosophy of "One Feature, One OSM Element"[3] should apply, and
> that those 3 townlands should be merged into 1. The CP boundaries
> should physically stay where they are, but they will not line up
> with a townland boundary. I seen other examples of townlands
> crossing CP boundaries and have mapped them as one townland, with a
> CP border going through the middle.
> 
> I'm tempted to merge townlands like this into one townland. What
> do people think?
> 
> Rory
> 
> [1] 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2016-March/001499.ht
ml
>
> 
[2] Townlands.ie:
> https://www.townlands.ie/carlow/forth/templepeter/templepeter/graiguea
lug/
>
> 
https://www.townlands.ie/carlow/forth/tullowmagimma/templepeter/graiguea
lug/
> https://www.townlands.ie/carlow/forth/nurney/templepeter/graiguealug/
>
> 
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element
> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
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[OSM-talk-ie] When is a townland a townland (and when is it 2+ townlands)?

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hi all,

A while ago I mentioned a possible problem with the Logainm data
import, where 2+ townlands were getting the same logainm reference[1].
Upon closer investigation, I don't think this is a bug with the import
process, but a question of "Is a townland is one townland or many
townlands?".

Consider Graiguealug townland in Carlow. It's in OSM as 3 different
townlands: OSM ids https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2196774
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2274862
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2274863 all touching each
other. Each is in a different civil parish[2].

However Logainm only has one entry http://www.logainm.ie/en/3531 which
is in 3 different civil parishes. Logainm allows one townland to be in
more than one CP. If you look at the GSGS map, only one townland is
shown on the map, and the total area (~400 acres) is similar to the
total off the 3 townlands in OSM.

It looks like one townlands was split into 3 townlands so that each
townland would be in one and only one CP.

However I don't think this is the right approach. I think the OSM
philosophy of "One Feature, One OSM Element"[3] should apply, and that
those 3 townlands should be merged into 1. The CP boundaries should
physically stay where they are, but they will not line up with a
townland boundary. I seen other examples of townlands crossing CP
boundaries and have mapped them as one townland, with a CP border
going through the middle.

I'm tempted to merge townlands like this into one townland. What do
people think?

Rory

[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2016-March/001499.html
[2] Townlands.ie:
https://www.townlands.ie/carlow/forth/templepeter/templepeter/graiguealug/
https://www.townlands.ie/carlow/forth/tullowmagimma/templepeter/graiguealug/
https://www.townlands.ie/carlow/forth/nurney/templepeter/graiguealug/
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Video of "Community and Historical Mapping for All" talk

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Brian,

It was posted onto reddit[1][2][3] from a presume someone from Offaly
History, and I saw it there.

Rory

[1]
https://www.reddit.com/r/IrishHistory/comments/4jqq98/video_community_and_historical_mapping_for_all/
[2]
https://www.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/4jqlzi/video_community_and_historical_mapping_for_all/
[3]
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/4jqmmz/video_community_and_historical_mapping_for_all/


On 20/05/16 19:13, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> Hi Rory
> 
> Curious how you happened upon this? Dave Corley kindly helped with
> the live demo which followed.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> On 19 May 2016 at 08:17, Rory McCann  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Here's a video of a talk brianh gave introducing OSM to the Offaly 
> Historical & Archaeological Society called "Community and
> Historical Mapping for All". It's an intro to OSM, but also
> focussing on the historical things in OSM, as well as our townlands
> mapping project.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxfnD4aQTg
> 
> 
> Rory
>> 
>> ___ Talk-ie mailing
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>> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] SoTM talk about townlands

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hi all,

I've submitted the proposal now. Now we wait.

Rory

On 19/05/16 11:28, Rory McCann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Lots of great content being added to that page, from many people! 
> :) The important part now is the proposal ("What is your session 
> about?") section at the top, since that what we have to submit by 
> Saturday. Please feel free to write something eye catching, 
> especially if you plan to be at SoTM and want to co-present it :)
> 
> I'm going to submit the proposal tomorrow (Friday) to be sure it's 
> in on time.
> 
> Rory
> 
> On 17/05/16 11:03, Rory McCann wrote:
>> Hi all,
> 
>> Let's start writing a proposal, and talk, for State of the Map 
>> about townlands. We have to submit the proposal by Saturday! So 
>> we should aim to have it finished by Friday (just in case)
> 
>> I've started a pirate pad for collaborative editing here: 
>> http://piratepad.net/eO6nzIEI0A
> 
>> Please have a look at edit it away. As you type, others can see 
>> what you're doing.
> 
>> Rory
> 
>> ___ Talk-ie mailing 
>> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] SoTM talk about townlands

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

Lots of great content being added to that page, from many people! :)
The important part now is the proposal ("What is your session about?")
section at the top, since that what we have to submit by Saturday.
Please feel free to write something eye catching, especially if you
plan to be at SoTM and want to co-present it :)

I'm going to submit the proposal tomorrow (Friday) to be sure it's in
on time.

Rory

On 17/05/16 11:03, Rory McCann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Let's start writing a proposal, and talk, for State of the Map
> about townlands. We have to submit the proposal by Saturday! So we
> should aim to have it finished by Friday (just in case)
> 
> I've started a pirate pad for collaborative editing here: 
> http://piratepad.net/eO6nzIEI0A
> 
> Please have a look at edit it away. As you type, others can see
> what you're doing.
> 
> Rory
> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Video of "Community and Historical Mapping for All" talk

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

Here's a video of a talk brianh gave introducing OSM to the Offaly
Historical & Archaeological Society called "Community and Historical
Mapping for All". It's an intro to OSM, but also focussing on the
historical things in OSM, as well as our townlands mapping project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxfnD4aQTg


Rory
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[OSM-talk-ie] SoTM talk about townlands

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

Let's start writing a proposal, and talk, for State of the Map about
townlands. We have to submit the proposal by Saturday! So we should
aim to have it finished by Friday (just in case)

I've started a pirate pad for collaborative editing here:
http://piratepad.net/eO6nzIEI0A

Please have a look at edit it away. As you type, others can see what
you're doing.

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] State of the Map 2016 call for sessions - Thinking of suggesting a townlands lighting talk...

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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That sounds like a much better idea! Go for it. :)

On 22/04/16 14:20, Dave Corley wrote:
> I was planning on submitting a full talk on it, instead of a 
> lightening talk. There's a lot to cover On 22 Apr 2016 09:54,
> "Rory McCann"  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> State of the Map 2016, the annual global OSM conference, is taking
>  place in Brussels in 23-25 Sept. They are now taking applications 
> for talks/sessions! It's open until 21 May. If there's anything 
> you'd like to present to the wider OSM world, feel free to suggest 
> it. SotM is open to everyone to come along (and/or talk), so feel 
> free to come.
> 
> I am thinking of suggesting a lighten talk about our townlands 
> mapping project. At this rate, we should have finished by then. It 
> would be nice to tell the world about it. What does everyone
> think, is it a good idea?
> 
> Rory
>> 
>> ___ Talk-ie mailing 
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing 
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
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[OSM-talk-ie] NB: For the weekend: TOG only has 3G internet

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

Just thought I'd let ye know. TOG is still in the process of moving
and renovating and reincorporating, and at the moment is only using a
3G dongle for internet access in the space.

Just in case any of ye were thinking of uploading/download any massive
file, please be mindful of that. Perhaps upload/download at home
before hand?

Thanks,

Rory

On 22/04/16 10:13, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> scans of 6" OOC maps at OSM meet tomorrow
> 
> Thanks to co-operation by Blueprint Reprographics in Stillorgan we
> now have several hundreds of scans for OSM use of 6" out of
> copyright OS maps spread across 23 counties.
> 
> I will have them at the meet tomorrow so bring a memory stick if
> you would like copies of some of them.
> 
> Library accuracy check BTW thanks to those who have replied re
> accuracy of library locations as per previous mail, more quick
> replies welcome as we may discuss possibility of wholesome import
> of correct data tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks, looking forward to seeing some of you there.
> 
> On 19 April 2016 at 13:00, 
> wrote:
> 
>> Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to 
>> talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie or, via email,
>> send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
>> talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at 
>> talk-ie-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>> specific than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>> 1. Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 83, Issue 10 (Brian Hollinshead) 2.
>> Re: Talk-ie Digest, Vol 83, Issue 10 (Dave Corley)
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>
>>
>> 
Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 15:51:25 +0100 From: Brian Hollinshead
>>  To: talk-ie@openstreetmap.org Subject:
>> Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Talk-ie Digest, Vol 83, Issue 10 Message-ID: 
>> > i0sne...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> Daniel kindly asked for suggested topics for discussion on
>> Saturday so here are some.
>> 
>> 1) histosm.org or the history page with date slider. (It seems to
>> vanish from time to time) I have been adding to OSM some historic
>> admin boundaries dublin south union trinity ward (1849) rathmines
>> township 1847   etc
>> 
>> as you cannot see them on the ground perhaps when I have been
>> shown how please, I should remove them intact to the history page
>> server?
>> 
>> 2) Some discussion on how to best search for (and find) some
>> boundaries or other features if you do not have the full title.
>> 
>> 3) usage of leaflet and maperitive for producing web overlays and
>> printed maps with specific items emphasized.
>> 
>> 4) Whether we should have an OOC layer for 6inch OS on 
>> maps.openstreetmpa.ie/oocmaps?
>> 
>> 5) Whether it is desirable and if it can be done, to improve the
>> my user experience with maps.openstreetmap.ie on say a 7" tablet
>> by having an enlarged pop-up mini window with the two or three
>> overlay choices when I hit two or more of them by mistake. Can
>> ably demonstrate my difficulty with this on Saturday.
>> 
>> 6)As the Poor Law Union areas coincided with the Superindentent
>> Registrar's Districts (so important to genealogists) for many
>> decades we might consider adding them as an overlay option to
>> maps.openstreetmap.ie
>> 
>> Donal, please forgive me, maybe one of the others might offer
>> help with some of the above if being acted on. Your spendid
>> layers on maps.openstreetmap.ie along with Rory's townlands.ie
>> have brought gasps of amazement and admiration from many local
>> studies librarians when I have shown them.
>> 
>> 7)I have, from the Library Developemnt Section of the LGMA,  an
>> excel spreadsheet with email addresses for most of the County
>> Librarian, with permission to send an introductory email, Maybe
>> someone could please compose a suggested mail and post it here or
>> bring it for discussion on Saturday.
>> 
>> That's all I have, See you Saturday.
>> 
>> On 18 April 2016 at 13:00, 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Send Talk-ie mailing list submissions to 
>>> talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit 
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie or, via email,
>>> send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
>>> talk-ie-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at 
>>> talk-ie-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
>>> specific than "Re: Contents of Talk-ie digest..."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>> 1. Re: Doodle Poll for next OpenStreetMap Ireland meetup 
>>> (Daniel Cussen)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> 
Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:04:02 +01

[OSM-talk-ie] State of the Map 2016 call for sessions - Thinking of suggesting a townlands lighting talk...

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Hi all,

State of the Map 2016, the annual global OSM conference, is taking
place in Brussels in 23-25 Sept. They are now taking applications for
talks/sessions! It's open until 21 May. If there's anything you'd like
to present to the wider OSM world, feel free to suggest it. SotM is
open to everyone to come along (and/or talk), so feel free to come.

I am thinking of suggesting a lighten talk about our townlands mapping
project. At this rate, we should have finished by then. It would be
nice to tell the world about it. What does everyone think, is it a
good idea?

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Converting 350 lat/lons from ITM to decimal degrees (Irish Libraries)

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Brian,

That's great news. It's always great to increase OSM's visibility to
people who didn't hear about it, and especially outside the
traditional techy crowd, and into Irish public sector.

I'm willing to help with any data conversion, and/or import process as
needed. Feel free to send me the data if you'd like.

I'm also curious if there's any other benefit they could get from OSM
that we could look into providing for them.

Rory

On 12/04/16 17:46, Brian Hollinshead wrote:
> I have received from the Library Development Section of the LMGA
> the ITM co-ordinates of about 350 Irish Public Libraries with
> permission to use the data for OSM. When I called to request the
> data they were unaware of OSM but are now highly impressed that
> such a sizable and varied resource had been produced both  locally
> and voluntarily.
> 
> They arranged to have the list updated and I now have the excel
> file. I am familiar with the OSI convertor from ITM to degrees
> decimal on a one by one basis but hope one kindly soul can please
> email me to send the file to them for wholesale conversion. I can
> then put it on one drive and post a notice to that effect.
> 
> I look forward to an email. 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Landuse

[Rory McCann]

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Hi Colm,

Totally agree.

Often there are several housing estates together that have the same
name ("Blah Close", "Blah Wood", etc), and that's a good example of
needing a "Blah" landuse=residential area.

Conversely, I've seen rough landuse=residental drawn over a few houses
which are strung out in rural ireland. Most of the area inside the
area is fields, not residential. That's not accurate. Map the
individual houses, but you don't need a residential landuse for a few
houses in rural areas.

And not everywhere in OSM needs to be in a "landuse" tag.

Rory

On 05/04/16 22:45, Colm Moore wrote:
> Hi, Caution! Moan ahead! :)
> 
> There has been talk of adopting a project like mapping all schools.
> I do think it is worthy. Could I suggest an alternative in landuse,
> in particular landuse=residential? We map lots of roads, forests
> and farmland, but not so mush residential usage. As it stands,
> there are large gaps in most of the cities, in particular city
> centres, although very little of Cork (residential) has been done
> at all. I accept that in city centres / other older areas it can be
> difficult to separate terraced houses from terraced mixed-use
> areas, without local knowledge. Separately, I think some users
> might be being too coarse in the application of landuse=residential
> and enclosing an entire village in one area or a middling-to-large
> sized town in two. I think it would be more useful to implement on
> a neighbourhood (in older areas) or housing estate level (in newer
> areas). I think it would make maintenance easier, especially if an
> housing estate has a name as a whole, that isn't necessarily
> reflected in the street or townland names, e,g, in Whitehall in
> Dublin, the combination of Walnut Rise, Walnut Lawn, Walnut Avenue,
> Walnut Park, Walnut Court are, for some reason, known as Courtlands
> (Estate). https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/132713513 For example,
> in Malahide, there are about 25 streets with the name Seabury 
> (and a few called Lissadell ) and the area is known as Seabury.
> The origin of the name is the adjacent, but separate, townland of
> Seatown. The neighbouring areas of Yellow Walls and Swords Road are
> enclosed in the same landuse=residential area, although at points
> there are areas within areas, which I think can only make
> maintenance difficult. In a town of 14,000, two landuse=residential
> areas cover 90-95% of the population, while immediately next to it
> there are several areas used to cover 3-5 house each. Any
> thoughts? Thank you
> 
> Colm
> 
> --
- -
>
> 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret
Mead
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Oops, duplicate logain:refs added!

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Colmn,

I don't use the location from logainm to match up to OSM objects.
Instead I use the hierachy. So if civil parish X is in barony Y in OSM
and logainm, and barony Y has a logainm:ref of 123, and logainm only
has one CP in barony Y with the name of "X", then we can match it up.

Also, at the moment, I've only match up counties, baronies, civil
parishes and townlands from logainm. I haven't let done any of the
other things like "population centres" or bridges.

Rory

On 21/03/16 15:32, Colm Moore wrote:
> Hi, I had noticed that some logainm locations are slightly 'rough'.
> While bridges and other point features would normally be within 100
> metres, other might be out quite a bit, e.g. Balrothery
> (Balbriggan, Dublin), which I moved by more than 1km (if I remember
> correctly). Might the moving of them have caused the duplicates? 
> Colm
> 
> --
- -
>
> 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret M
ead
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>> 1. Oops, duplicate logain:refs added! (WAS: Re: Logainm data 
>> import #1 done!) (Rory McCann)
>> 
>> -
- -
>>
>>
>> 
From: Rory McCann 
>> Subject: [OSM-talk-ie] Oops, duplicate logain:refs added! (WAS:
>> Re: Logainm data import #1 done!)
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> It turns out there was a little problem with the logainm import,
>> which Meenatuggart noticed. There are about ~120 logainm:ref's
>> which are on more than one OSM object. Duplicate logainm:ref's
>> basically.
>> 
>> I've made a simple page on townlands.ie which shows the problems,
>> so that we can fix it up.
>> 
>> Please find the page here:
>> 
>> http://www.townlands.ie/progress/logainmqa/
>> 
>> I may add additional "QA" checks to that page when I can think
>> of additional ones.
>> 
>> R
>  ___ Talk-ie mailing
> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Oops, duplicate logain:refs added! (WAS: Re: Logainm data import #1 done!)

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

It turns out there was a little problem with the logainm import, which
Meenatuggart noticed. There are about ~120 logainm:ref's which are on
more than one OSM object. Duplicate logainm:ref's basically.

I've made a simple page on townlands.ie which shows the problems, so
that we can fix it up.

Please find the page here:

http://www.townlands.ie/progress/logainmqa/

I may add additional "QA" checks to that page when I can think of
additional ones.

R

On 14/03/16 22:17, Rory McCann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> As I said on my OSM diary[1], I have finally made an import of the 
> Logainm data. I used the import account rorym_import_logainm[2]. I 
> imported it in 2 goes. First just the baronies (which was only 6 
> missing), to test that the import worked. That was changeset 
> 37805913[3]. Then I imported the rest, in 3 changesets[4][5][6].
> 
> All in, I updated 20,506 objects. About 56% of civil parishes were
> able to be matched up, and 39% of townlands. The main reason for
> the low number is due to how the script matches up. For CPs, it
> looks at the barony it's in, and checks the logainm id of that, and
> then looks for an exact name match. If the barony has not been
> mapped, then it can't match up. Likewise, for townlands, it looks
> at the CP. No CP mapped and the townland can't be matched up. There
> is a lot of areas where only townlands are mapped. If you want to
> improve Logainm importing, please add more baronies and civil
> parishes.
> 
> There were many cases where an exact name match wasn't found. I
> haven't looked into this yet, but I suspect it might be just
> misspellings, or things like that.
> 
> It takes a long time to upload 20,000 objects with JOSM. :)
> 
> I plan to continue to work on this, improve the script, and re-run 
> imports as more OSM data is added. You can follow it on the user
> diary for the import account[7].
> 
> Rory
> 
> 
> [1]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym/diary/38149 [2]:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym_import_logainm [3]:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37805913 [4]:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37807910 [5]:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37807270 [6]:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37806626 [7]:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym_import_logainm/diary
> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Logainm data import #1 done!

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

As I said on my OSM diary[1], I have finally made an import of the
Logainm data. I used the import account rorym_import_logainm[2]. I
imported it in 2 goes. First just the baronies (which was only 6
missing), to test that the import worked. That was changeset
37805913[3]. Then I imported the rest, in 3 changesets[4][5][6].

All in, I updated 20,506 objects. About 56% of civil parishes were able
to be matched up, and 39% of townlands. The main reason for the low
number is due to how the script matches up. For CPs, it looks at the
barony it's in, and checks the logainm id of that, and then looks for
an exact name match. If the barony has not been mapped, then it can't
match up. Likewise, for townlands, it looks at the CP. No CP mapped
and the townland can't be matched up. There is a lot of areas where
only townlands are mapped. If you want to improve Logainm importing,
please add more baronies and civil parishes.

There were many cases where an exact name match wasn't found. I haven't
looked into this yet, but I suspect it might be just misspellings, or
things like that.

It takes a long time to upload 20,000 objects with JOSM. :)

I plan to continue to work on this, improve the script, and re-run
imports as more OSM data is added. You can follow it on the user diary
for the import account[7].

Rory


[1]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym/diary/38149
[2]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym_import_logainm
[3]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37805913
[4]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37807910
[5]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37807270
[6]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/37806626
[7]: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym_import_logainm/diary
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] [Imports] OSM with Wikidata: now covers UK and Ireland

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

The list for "Cities in Dublin, Ireland" is strange.
http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/gb-ie/county/County_Dublin/Cities

It accurately has the one city (Dublin), but it also lists the British
Ambassadors residence, and a student accomodation. Both are accurately
matched up OSM/Wikipedia/Wikidata, but they aren't cities.

- -- 
Rory

On 10/03/16 18:57, Edward Betts wrote:
> I've extended my search for matches between OSM and Wikidata again.
> It now covers all of the UK and Ireland.
> 
> I used map data from
> http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/british-isles.html
> 
> The results are grouped by region or county as well as by
> category.
> 
> http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/gb-ie/
> 
> I'm going to figure out how to upload these matches to OSM. I've
> registered an account with the username Wikidata to use for the
> uploads.
> 
> There will be one changeset per county + category for any category
> with 10 or more matches in that county. Categories with less than
> 10 matches in the county will be combined into a single changeset.
> 
> OSM objects with an existing wikidata tag won't be changed.
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Doodle Poll for next OpenStreetMap Ireland meetup

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

Yep, I'm still a TOG member, but I can't help out with this obviously.
I've got too many things to map here in Germany :P

Rory

On 06/03/16 15:57, Dave Corley wrote:
> Poll updated to include 19th Mar
> 
> Would people mind voting sooner, rather than later to see if the
> 19th is a good option
> 
> Cheers, Dave
> 
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Daniel Cussen 
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes myself and Jukes are involved. Rory works outside of Ireland
>> now but lurks on all mailing lists. I think my suggested date
>> would be best, but we would need to decide quickly in order to
>> get approval.
>> 
>> On 05/03/2016, Dave Corley  wrote:
>>> Daniel,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for that info, I wasn't aware you were a member, I think
>>> it was Jules (& Rory) I spoke with last time. I also forgot
>>> about the move,
>> that's
>>> an oops on my part. The 360 photos on the site are great, the
>>> new space looks huge.
>>> 
>>> Dave On 5 Mar 2016 16:33, "Daniel Cussen" 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 TOG has moved from old place to Blackpitts. It is 3 times the
 size. It has free parking (more at the weekend) and bike lock
 stands.
 
 https://www.tog.ie/location/
 
 If you organise the same day as a social E.g. Sat March 19th,
 you can hang around afterwards. As I TOG member I can open up
 etc. We would need a MINIMUM of 2 weeks notice of an exact
 date to book and get approval. This is done to allow any
 objections but also to allow proper promotion and advertising
 so we can make the most of events. That date would suit me
 best. I am away many other weekends.
 
 I would suggest 1 or 2pm start with the social night starting
 7pm onwards.?
 
 On 05/03/2016, Dave Corley  wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Its been too long since our last meetup!
> 
> I've put up a doodle poll to gauge the best possible date.
> As usual, the meet will be on a weekend and will run from
> 12-6pm (usually starts to
 wind
> down from 5) and then on to somewhere nearby for a drink or
> a bite to eat afterwards. There won't be food or drink
> provided so you would need to bring your own.
> 
> The poll link is - http://doodle.com/poll/2qt2hfichacnqc5f
> 
> Please vote for any dates that suit you, the one with the
> most votes will obviously be the first choice but will be
> dependent on Tog availability.
> 
> For anyone thinking of travelling from outside Dublin but
> unsure of
>> the
> logistics of getting to Tog, there is: - a multi-story
> parking lot 2 mins walk away - a Dublin bikes stand 2 mins
> walk away - St.Stephens Green Luas stop 8 mins walk away
> 
> Looking forward to seeing you all again, Dave 
> ___ Talk-ie
> mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
 
 ___ Talk-ie
 mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
 
>>> 
>> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
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[OSM-talk-ie] Imports of Placenames Database of Ireland

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

This is a second attempt at a planned import of the metadata from the
Placenames Database of Ireland (Logainm) into OpenStreetMap. I
abandoned the last attempt. I have changed the software since last
time, and created some sample data for you to look at.

I would like to match up the official Irish names from Logainm with
the exiting administrative boundaries in OSM (counties, baronies, CPs,
EDs, and townlands). The Irish community supports this move.

The plan is to add OSM tags to existing OSM administrative polygons,
based on the bootstrapped initial tagging of logainm:ref and Logainm's
"object X is spatially contained within object Y" data. We shall not
be creating any new OSM objects, merely updating existing ones.

Wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Logainm_Import

Some of the code that will do it is here:

https://github.com/osmie/logainm-osm-import

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Wiki - Project_Ireland - General & Railways

[Rory McCann]

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Hi Colm,

Thanks for looking into this and collecting this data. Please feel
free to update the wiki if you know it's wrong. The OSM wiki is like
OSM, improve it if you can!

Rory

On 17/02/16 23:46, Colm Moore wrote:
> Hi, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Ireland#Goals 
> This is quite out of date. Public roads (total) are probably at 
> 95-98%, with mostly boreens and some housing estates to be filled 
> in. Private roads are another matter. Railways are in the order of 
> 99.9%, although the status of some Bord na Móna railways is 
> 'fuzzy'.Cities - good progressArea Specific - good progressPOI 
> Specific - mixed bunchTransport specific - mixed bunch 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Ireland#Railway_rails
>
>
> 
This section hasn't been updated in 5 years.
> Broad GaugeIrish Rail - 100% of track mappedNI Railways  - 100% of 
> track mappedDublin Port  - 100% of track mappedOther minor broad 
> gauge railways - 100% of track mapped Standard GaugeLuas - 100% of 
> track mappedLuas Cross City - "under construction". Narrow Gauge & 
> miniatureBord na Móna  - 99% of track mapped, some areas not
> easily mappable due to poor photography (clouds, shadow)Heritage
> operators - 100% of track mappedMiniature railways - 90%+ of track
> mapped OtherMonorail - 100% of track mappedDisused railways - 
> Mullingar-Athlone needs to be added back in (recently changed to 
> cycleway, but track remains).Abandoned railways - good progress 
> TagsElectrified - 100%Gauge - 100%Operator - 100%Passenger -
> mostly set to "yes", detailed tags being addedRailway - 100%Tracks
> - 100%, being converted to "pasenger_lines"Usage -
> 100%railway:traffic_mode - 10%railway=tram_stop -
> 99%railway=station - 99%railway=switch - 
> 30-50%railway=level_crossing - 99%railway=signal - 
> 10%railway=turntable - 100% I'm not sure how much of the above 
> should end up on the Wiki. Colm 
> --
- -
>
>
> 
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret
Mead
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] OSM / townlands.ie metadata

[Rory McCann]

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Hello Killian,

I wrote and maintain townlands.ie. The details about what the columns
mean should be on the page itself, under "Attributes". If you can
ignore the "\n" that are appearing due to a translations related bug.
If you'd like any further clarification, just let me know. If you're
curious of the SQL behind it, you can find that here[1].

I'm quite interested to know what people are using that data for.
Could you tell us a little about what you're doing with it? (Or email
me in private, off-list, if you'd like). I'm always open to hearing
suggesting for improvements to t.ie or the data download format.

[1]:
https://github.com/osmie/osm-irish-townlands/blob/452a0b7da55bb364bdab938e5e62e77d1023ab5d/irish_townlands/management/commands/make_dump_files.py#L72

- -- 
Rory

On 20/02/16 18:34, Killian Driscoll wrote:
> I am using a copy of the townlands and counties layers downloaded
> from http://www.townlands.ie/page/download/ in a database, and I
> need a list of the metadata for the layers' columns, (i.e. the
> metadata meaning an explanation of each column heading). Where can
> I find that?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Killian DriscoIl IRC Postdoctoral Fellow UCD School of Archaeology 
> University College Dublin
> 
> academia.edu/KillianDriscoll
>  www.lithicsireland.ie 
> ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Fortnight of....

[Rory McCann]

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Hi,

We haven't done any of those targeted editing things in the past.
Although since the UK and Belgium are doing a "Schools quarterly
project", I'm looking at schools at the moment (as you can tell from
the emails).

I like the idea of those projects. It's nice to clean things up a bit.
:) Perhaps we should do something like that.

Rory

On 05/02/16 12:27, os...@tutanota.com wrote:
> Hello again,
> 
> I am relatively new OSM editing and new to the list.
> 
> I wonder if there are any mapping projects happening in Ireland
> like the "Fortnight of" or "month of" mapping efforts where it is
> nominated for 2 weeks people would make an effort to add to the map
> a specific type of information.  Like maybe public toilets, ATM
> machines,   improve the opening times of an amenity.
> 
> If the edits are kept to easy enough tasks it could be an easy
> introduction for many to mapping. 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] An attempt to geocode the list of schools from Dept. Ed. leads nowhere

[Rory McCann]

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Hi,

No, I didn't try that yet. It's a good idea. You'd be doing a "match
up" as opposed to a "geocode" I suppose.

Rory

On 04/02/16 00:09, Dave Corley wrote:
> Hey Rory,
> 
> Did you try plugging in the location data from polling stations on 
> data.gov.ie
> 
> It won't give a complete picture as not all are used as polling
> stations and there's likely a lot of mismatch between the names but
> it might work for some for counties that have released polling
> station info On 3 Feb 2016 20:44, "Rory McCann"
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> As as been mentioned on this list, in the UK they are doing a
> quarterly project to map more schools[1] and there is a list of
> schools from the Department of Education[2][3], but that only has
> addresses, not location s.
> 
> I thought I'd download that file and throw it at Nominatim and see
> if we can't geocode those addresses, and have something to work
> with. I thought with all the mapped townlands, that Nominatim might
> be OK at some of the rural addresses.
> 
> The results are not good.
> 
> Nominatim returns a bounding box for a result. Here's what happens
> when you try to geocode all the primary schools:
> http://i.imgur.com/CFEW7Oa.p ng
> 
> The big boxes are where nominatim was only able to get the county.
> You can see that many other boxes are just around towns and
> villages. Nothing more detailed than that. The map might as well be
> a map of "Counties and Towns of Ireland", which is useless for
> locating schools.
> 
> An example address is "SCOIL NAOMH MICHEAL,SNEEM,CO KERRY". It's
> no surprise that Nominatim cannot get any more accurate than the
> village of Sneem in that case. The other school in Sneem, SCOIL 
> EOIN,TAHILLA,SNEEM,CO. KERRY, is hardly more accurate.
> 
> The code is in the "ie-schools-geocode" repository on our github[4]
> Run "make install primary-schools-areas.shp" to generate the data.
> The geocoding is done in "geocode-single.sh"[5].
> 
> That image is based on the shapefile in
> primary-schools-areas.zip[6]. If you don't want to generate the
> data, you can just download it directly from github. By using the
> Open Data plug-in you can open it in JOSM.
> 
> Unfortunately, it looks like the schools list database isn't very
> useful for mapping all the schools.
> 
> Irish addresses, eh?
> 
>> 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Maps on Townlands.ie

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

Townlands.ie now has maps! http://www.townlands.ie/pages/maps/

It shows where townlands have recently been mapped, and who has mapped
townlands.

I've also added some "land not in county/ed/barony/etc". Though
apparently most of the "land not in county" is accurately mapped,
since it highlights lots of little rocks off the coast. I still need
to fix the "water showing up on townlands" and "ed" map.

As usual, they are updated every morning (about 6am).

Feel free to embed those maps in another website, or load them into
JOSM or whatever.

Hope that helps,

Rory
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[OSM-talk-ie] How you can improve the mapping of Irish schools

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

The UK community has a current quarterly project to improve mapping of
schools. Despite the Dept of Education schools list not being very
useful[1][2], there are still things we can do in Ireland to improve our
mapping of schools.

Taginfo tells us that there are 651 schools in Ireland tagged as a node,
not an area. These can be replaced with a more accurate area. This is
one thing they are doing in the UK. Mapzen explain more[3].

You can use this Overpass Query to get all schools-mapped-as-nodes:
http://url.ie/z9cy Export it to JOSM and use the JOSM ToDo plugin to
work through them and map them like in the Mapzen link.

Taginfo tell us about other important details missing from many
schools[4], which can fill in from the Dept of Edu. list:

 * Only 1% of schools have a gender - Find them with http://url.ie/z9d0
 * Only 1% have religion tag set - Find them with http://url.ie/z9d1
 * Only 1% have denomination set.


Happy Mapping!

Rory



[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2016-February/001429.html
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/rorym/diary/37887
[3] https://mapzen.com/blog/targeted-editing-school-polygons
[4] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.ie/tags/amenity=school#combinations

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[OSM-talk-ie] An attempt to geocode the list of schools from Dept. Ed. leads nowhere

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

As as been mentioned on this list, in the UK they are doing a quarterly
project to map more schools[1] and there is a list of schools from the
Department of Education[2][3], but that only has addresses, not location
s.

I thought I'd download that file and throw it at Nominatim and see if we
can't geocode those addresses, and have something to work with. I
thought with all the mapped townlands, that Nominatim might be OK at
some of the rural addresses.

The results are not good.

Nominatim returns a bounding box for a result. Here's what happens when
you try to geocode all the primary schools: http://i.imgur.com/CFEW7Oa.p
ng

The big boxes are where nominatim was only able to get the county. You
can see that many other boxes are just around towns and villages.
Nothing more detailed than that. The map might as well be a map of
"Counties and Towns of Ireland", which is useless for locating schools.

An example address is "SCOIL NAOMH MICHEAL,SNEEM,CO KERRY". It's no
surprise that Nominatim cannot get any more accurate than the village of
Sneem in that case. The other school in Sneem, SCOIL
EOIN,TAHILLA,SNEEM,CO. KERRY, is hardly more accurate.

The code is in the "ie-schools-geocode" repository on our github[4]  Run
"make install primary-schools-areas.shp" to generate the data. The
geocoding is done in "geocode-single.sh"[5].

That image is based on the shapefile in primary-schools-areas.zip[6]. If
you don't want to generate the data, you can just download it directly
from github. By using the Open Data plug-in you can open it in JOSM.

Unfortunately, it looks like the schools list database isn't very useful
for mapping all the schools.

Irish addresses, eh?

- -- 

Rory


[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2016-January/001418.ht
ml
[2]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2016-January/001424.ht
ml
[3]
https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Statistics/Data-on-Individual-S
chools/Data-on-Individual-Schools.html
[4] https://github.com/osmie/ie-schools-geocode
[5]
https://github.com/osmie/ie-schools-geocode/blob/master/geocode-single.s
h
[6]
https://github.com/osmie/ie-schools-geocode/blob/master/primary-schools-
areas.zip

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[OSM-talk-ie] New GitHub Repository for OpenStreetMap Ireland code

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

OSM is a mapping project, but sometimes people write software to do
stuff with OSM. www.townlands.ie is one example of this. And that code
(like much in OSM) is open source, and I use Github, since it's so
popular for open source.

So I set up a Github organization for us! Here:
https://github.com/osmie If you're a Github user, feel free to join
(on-line, or contact me and I can add you). I've already transferred
the townlands.ie source code there. Feel free to transfer any other
projects on github there.


Happy mapping and hacking,K

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Schools project - update 3

[Rory McCann]

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Hi all,

The Dept. of Education & Skills has a website where they have all the
schools location specified ( https://www.education.ie/en/find-a-school
), but that lat/long data is not included in the downloadable schools
list and the copyright on it is not specified (i.e. it's 'all rights
reserved').

So close!

Rory

On 27/01/16 01:23, Dave Corley wrote:
> I've been following the project with great interest but there's a
> number of limiting factors preventing us doing the same at the
> moment, specifically addressing (townland project fixes that) and
> location of the schools.
> 
> The dept of ed here releases a monthly file with all schools info
> for the country but lacks location information.
> 
> However, with the onset of open data in the government, there are a
> few options that will allow for combining datasets to get what we
> need.
> 
> For example add * Dept of Education schools file (school data) To *
> Polling stations datasets (location data)
> 
> Gives a combination of school info and location together.
> 
> Sadly the polling station datasets are done at County council level
> and so far I've found only 2 released under cc-by.
> 
> More will follow, but right now that's what is holding back
> something like this in the south.
> 
> I've contacted the dept of education to ask for location data and
> was told no, with no elaboration. But that was a long while back.
> It might be worth chasing them up again
> 
> Dave On 26 Jan 2016 23:55, "Rob Nickerson"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Yes, it's a "quarterly project" to map schools. Just a bit of fun
>> started by the Mappa Mercia community in England. The aim is to
>> inspire a few people to map by giving them an idea of what to
>> help with. Hopefully we will inspire new mappers as well. I'm
>> sharing on talk-ie in case anyone wants to get involved either as
>> a mapper or by running an initiative to help attract new mappers
>> in your area. Many of our tools can also be generalised to
>> include Republic of Ireland if there is a desire for this.
>> 
>> The project is listed at 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Projects
>> 
>> And the progress tracker I was referring to is at 
>> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/schools/progress/
>> 
>> Happy mapping *Rob* 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Who wants to help translate townlands.ie into Irish (or any other language)?

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

Sorry for this, but I've moved the project under the wider
OpenStreetMap umbrella, and the project is now here:

https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/irish-townlands/

Current status: Irish: 3%, German: 7% and French: 14%

Rory

On 19/10/15 11:38, Rory McCann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Just in case you're intested, here's the transifex project page:
> 
> https://www.transifex.com/irish-townlands/irish-townlands/
> 
> Feel free to sign up and 'request to join' the project. You can
> also add/request new languages from there.
> 
> Rory
> 
> On 18/10/15 16:51, Rory McCann wrote:
>> Hi all,
> 
>> Who'd like to help translate townlands.ie into Irish (or any
>> other language)? I'm learning German, so I'll translate into
>> German.
> 
>> Since t.ie is django, and hence a dynamic website, it splits the 
>> text on the website into lots of little chunks, and you
>> translate them one by one.
> 
>> I'm going to use Transifex[1], the website, to do the
>> translation, so you don't need any special software, it's all web
>> based. There's a little complication with pluralisation (esp for
>> Irish), but I can explain it. You don't need to have any
>> experience with computer translations ("i18n"/"l10n"), just be
>> able to speak the target language close enough. I'll explain it.
> 
>> Right now, townlands.ie is only available in English, but when 
>> there is enough translations done for a language I'll enable
>> that language.
> 
>> Any takers? :)
> 
>> Rory
> 
>> [1] https://www.transifex.com/ 
>> ___ Talk-ie mailing 
>> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
> 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Who wants to help translate townlands.ie into Irish (or any other language)?

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

Just in case you're intested, here's the transifex project page:

https://www.transifex.com/irish-townlands/irish-townlands/

Feel free to sign up and 'request to join' the project. You can also
add/request new languages from there.

Rory

On 18/10/15 16:51, Rory McCann wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Who'd like to help translate townlands.ie into Irish (or any other 
> language)? I'm learning German, so I'll translate into German.
> 
> Since t.ie is django, and hence a dynamic website, it splits the
> text on the website into lots of little chunks, and you translate
> them one by one.
> 
> I'm going to use Transifex[1], the website, to do the translation,
> so you don't need any special software, it's all web based. There's
> a little complication with pluralisation (esp for Irish), but I
> can explain it. You don't need to have any experience with
> computer translations ("i18n"/"l10n"), just be able to speak the
> target language close enough. I'll explain it.
> 
> Right now, townlands.ie is only available in English, but when
> there is enough translations done for a language I'll enable that
> language.
> 
> Any takers? :)
> 
> Rory
> 
> [1] https://www.transifex.com/ 
> ___ Talk-ie mailing
> list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> 
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[OSM-talk-ie] Who wants to help translate townlands.ie into Irish (or any other language)?

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

Who'd like to help translate townlands.ie into Irish (or any other
language)? I'm learning German, so I'll translate into German.

Since t.ie is django, and hence a dynamic website, it splits the text
on the website into lots of little chunks, and you translate them one
by one.

I'm going to use Transifex[1], the website, to do the translation, so
you don't need any special software, it's all web based. There's a
little complication with pluralisation (esp for Irish), but I can
explain it. You don't need to have any experience with computer
translations ("i18n"/"l10n"), just be able to speak the target
language close enough. I'll explain it.

Right now, townlands.ie is only available in English, but when there
is enough translations done for a language I'll enable that language.

Any takers? :)

Rory

[1] https://www.transifex.com/
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[OSM-talk-ie] Let's add some Logainm data!

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

As we all know Logainm, the official placenames database of Ireland,
released their data in an OSM compatible licence. We've talked about
importing that data into OSM so that we'd be able to link to Logainm,
and get full(er) coverage for Irish names. But that has stalled. Doing
a full, automatic, import means you have to programmatically match up
logainm townlands (etc) to OSM townlands (etc). This can be hard and
error prone.

There is a way to make it easier. If we manually add logainm data to
larger OSM objects (Counties, Baronies and Civil Parishes), then we
can use that hierarchy to match up OSM to Logainm for the townlands.
We will also have some, as opposed to no, logainm data in OSM.

I have made this page ( http://www.townlands.ie/static/logainm/ )
which shows the data from Logainm, you can easily copy/paste the tags
into the Level0 OSM editor.

My approach: Open that logainm data page, find an county/barony, then
open that page on townlands.ie. At the bottom is "Edit in Level0".
Click that and copy/paste the tags from the box on the logainm page
into the Level0 editor.

There's a page showing how many OSM objects have a Logainm ref tag:
http://www.townlands.ie/progress/#logainm

We have a bit to go, but we can do it!

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] A UK/GB OpenStreetMap group

[Rory McCann]

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Hash: SHA1

On 05/08/15 00:13, Dave Corley wrote:
> - In terms of representation, when it comes to looking for data
> from govt. bodies, again I would keep it simple. For formal (in
> person, snail mail) representations, if the body is based in NI, it
> falls to OSM Ireland, if the body is based elsewhere it falls to
> OSM UK.

I don't know about this. I'd suggest allowing either group to be able
to make formal representations. Who knows, maybe some governmental
body might be more receptive to something from one group or the other?
Both groups can and should discuss together before making any formal
requests. We both want the same thing, and it would suck if we tied
ourselves down to one method that will bite us later. Why not keep our
options open?

Rory
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] A UK/GB OpenStreetMap group

[Rory McCann]

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Hi Rob,

Thanks for your email. Yes, we're looking into setting up OSMIE, but
I'm not sure how far along that is at this stage.

On 02/08/15 13:55, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> Personally I see no problem in going UK and those in NI can then
> join either group (or better still, both). This would work the same
> as if a OSM-Scotland group was formalised - those members can then
> be part of both the OSM-Scotland and OSM-UK/GB group.
> 
> That's just my view. What is important to me is that I hear your
> views on this.

That's basically the decision we came to here on talk-ie. You can see
some of the discussion here (
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ie/2014-November/000772.html
). It makes a lot of sense for some of the things we're doing that
might require talking to outside bodies, such as requesting old maps
for mapping townlands.

Likewise, I think we're of the view that you can have overlapping
"areas" and people can join which ones they want.

> Whatever we end up doing I think it would be great if we could
> work together on this. We both are going to need to set up a
> constitution and then once established we can share work and even
> do joint events.

Definitely! Best of luck!

Rory

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