Re: [talk-ph] Community call with Allan Mustard (OSMF Board Chair)

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello all,

The community call with the OSMF Chairperson Allan Mustard will push
through this Wednesday at 8:00pm Philippine Time (12:00 UTC).

Please join us on Google Hangouts:
https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/ZjZiczNyY2pzNDFkbXFxOGFycXQ5MGZoMGtAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbQ.6anvsfmpb4j0p1is3q9ngoo44r?authuser=0

For the call, I would recommend turning off video and just use audio in
order to make better use of Internet bandwidth (given our dismal Internet
access in the country).

Here's a little bit of background of our guest.

Allan P. Mustard is a retired United States career diplomat and was
previously the United States Ambassador to Turkmenistan from 2014 until his
retirement in 2019. Aside from his official duties representing the United
States government in the former Soviet country, he spent his free time
mapping the capital of Ashgabat in OSM making the city one of the
best-mapped places in Central Asia in any mapping service. Before he was
appointed an ambassador, he worked as a Foreign Service Officer under the
U.S. Department of Agriculture and had been posted in various places
worldwide such as Istanbul, Vienna, Moscow, Mexico City, and New Delhi.
Aside from English, Allan also speaks German and Russian, the latter of
which he learned as an undergrad at the University of Washington.

More info:
https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/236205.htm
http://www.allgov.com/news/appointments-and-resignations/us-ambassador-to-turkmenistan-who-is-allan-mustard-140816?news=853983

Regards,
Eugene


On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 1:41 AM Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Allan Mustard, the new chairperson of the Board of Directors of the
> OpenStreetMap Foundation, would like to have a one-hour call with the OSM
> community in the Philippines. Allan has been reaching out to various OSM
> local communities all over the world. For instance, he did a call with the
> OSM Indian community last January 29:
> https://mobile.twitter.com/osm_in/status/1221609512420794368
>
> Basically, Allan would like to learn more about our community in the
> Philippines, the mapping and work that we do, the opportunities and
> challenges that we face while we contribute to and promote OSM, and to seek
> input on what the OSM Foundation can do to support local communities.
>
> If you are interested to join the call (which will be done remotely and
> online probably via Google Hangouts), please do indicate your availability
> on this poll:
>
> https://framadate.org/bO4YJq6yLweEZLmJ
>
> Regards,
> Eugene
>
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Andrew Harvey]

Yes that example from Graeme is exactly it.

It could help some routers with guidance, to know where exits are even
without an exit number or ref (eg. take the 2nd exit), though this should
could always be derived from the road network anyway, it just might make it
easier for some software. Again I think it's only worth adding to exits
from grade separated roads.

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 10:44, Ian Steer  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:33, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
> In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an
> entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't
> need these junction tags.
>
>
>
> The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a
> motorway exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's
> different to destination sign.
>
>
>
> eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1,
> then he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the
> highway=motorway_junction would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits
> but they exist in other countries, and maybe here too.
>
>
>
> If I've understood properly, we've got a few of them around here:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0457042,153.3543885,3a,15y,133.24h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFYA0h_lsvqsWAualmVfFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1011105,153.403105,3a,15y,131.46h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm4vuA4WcyuCaeBf1mkamNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0085086,153.3437299,3a,15y,113.78h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smpdDZK21i8RV9tOdn6Gl4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.9533827,153.343662,3a,24.7y,127.87h,102.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1cD8Na9AZrWjwcNdLAdxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
> So how should these be tagged?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
> Yes, that is what I thought highway=motorway_junction ought to be used for
> (but not where the exit is not numbered in any way)
>
>
>
> Ian
>
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Re: [Talk-in] Virtual Mappy Hours - India - Feb 2020

[Naveen Francis]

Sure Arun, we will go over that.


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 8:59 AM Arun Ganesh  wrote:

> Thanks Naveen for coordinating this. I'm thinking of talking about the
> various type of boundaries, how it can be mapped and current progress for
> India. If you have other ideas on what would be good to cover, do share
> your thoughts.
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 3:42 AM Naveen Francis  wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Date:- Feb 26, 2020- 9-10 pm IST
>> Topic :- Boundaries ( administrative, political and lsg boundary) - How
>> to use OSM data ?
>>  Arun Ganesh, OSM India
>>
>> Please Join.
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/India/Virtual_Mappy_Hours
>>
>> Thanks
>> naveenpf
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Andy Townsend]

Since I was going through these anyway to see what ought to be rendered 
at map.atownsend.org.uk, I thought I might as well list them here too.  
These are things "tagged a bit like showgrounds, excluding bus stops and 
car parks", sorted by one of the main tags.


I suspect that the ones tagged just "place", "landuse=grass" or 
"tourism=attraction" only probably need some other tag to say "this is a 
showground".   "events_venue" might be a misunderstanding of what that 
tag was for.  "recreation_ground" may be correct in some cases but I 
suspect isn't in many others. "park" I'd be similarly surprised if it 
was often correct.  In most or all cases it probably needs a local to 
make the call, though...


place:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2382298440
name     Mannsfield Showground
place     locality
source     OS OpenData StreetView

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3416147963
name     Great Harwood Showground
place     neighbourhood

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4347790541
addr:postcode     BS37 8QZ
addr:street     Westerleigh Road
name     The Windmill Fisheries Showground
place     locality


events_venue only:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5849512782
alt_name     Royal Cornwall Event Centre
amenity     events_venue
name     Royal Cornwall Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6938439833
amenity     events_venue
name     Hertfordshire County Showground
operator     Hertfordshire Country Council


tourism=attraction only:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/283445694
name     Devon County Showground
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/91401877
name     Kent Showground
source     Bing
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/40942963
barrier     fence
name     Norfolk Showground
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/316706558
name     Great Yorkshire Showground
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/104155888
barrier     fence
name     Royal Bath and West of England Showground
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/239487854
name     Hennock Showground
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/178396540
addr:city     Newark
addr:postcode     NG24 2NY
addr:street     Lincoln Road
alt_name     Newark Show Ground
name     Newark Showground
operator     Newark & Nottinghamshire Agricultural Society
phone     +44 1636 705796
tourism     attraction
website     http://www.newarkshowground.com/
wikidata     Q15262122

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274093728
name     Lincolnshire Showground
tourism     attraction


recreation_ground only:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603746353
alt_name     Briscwm Fields
description     Normally farmland,  Used to hold events such as the 
Cardigan County Agricultural Show.

landuse     recreation_ground
name     Cardigan County Showground
note     Located from information on Coflein.
phone     +44 1545 570501
recreation_ground     showground
website     https://cardigancountyshow.org.uk/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/34993687
landuse     recreation_ground
name     Mirfield Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/89151502
addr:city     Peterborough
addr:housename     Peterborough Arena
addr:postcode     PE2 6XE
addr:street     East of England Showground
landuse     recreation_ground
name     East of England Showground
phone     +44 1733 363500
website     http://www.peterborougharena.com
wheelchair     yes

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/415636494
leisure     recreation_ground
name     Christow Playing Fields and Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/4587165
leisure     recreation_ground
name     Essex Showground
source     approximate

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/30813084
leisure     recreation_ground
name     North Somerset Showground
tourism     attraction

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/547075306
addr:postcode     LE15 7TW
addr:street     Burley Park Way
landuse     recreation_ground
name     Rutland Showground
note     The new county showground site.
source     EsriWorldImagery
website     https://www.rutlandshowground.com/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/588128321
leisure     recreation_ground
name     Strithians Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/26748908
landuse     recreation_ground
name     Penistone Show Ground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/234890106
landuse     recreation_ground
name     Pateley Bridge Show Ground


landuse=grass:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/487690483
landuse     grass
name     Midsuffolk Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/741042350
landuse     grass
name     Hertfordshire Country Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/103153435
landuse     grass
name     Border Union Showground
note     Showground
old_name     Bridge-end Haugh
operator     Border Union Agricultural Society

and associated with that is:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/137564594
name     Border Union Showground Exhibition Centre
tourism     attraction

Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Fra Mauro]

Se per cattolici di rito ortodosso si intendono ad esempio questi: 
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbazia_di_Santa_Maria_di_Grottaferrata, il 
Papa è d'accordo con loro... :)

Il 24 Febbraio 2020 14:30:53 CET, Martin Koppenhoefer  
ha scritto:
>Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 14:10 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo <
>simone.savi...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:58 Martin Koppenhoefer <
>> dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 10:42 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo <
>>> simone.savi...@gmail.com>:
>>>
 In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti:
 romano, ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati
>a
 piccole comunità.

>>> infatti, ci sono altre "denomination" cattoliche (per esempio
>>> russian_orthodox / orthodox, greek_othodox, armenian_catholic,...):
>>> https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/denomination#values
>>>
>>
>> Gli ortodossi non sono cattolici. Forse intendevi dire "altre
>> denominazioni cristiane".
>>
>
>
>no, intendevo proprio dire altri cattolici. Loro dicono di loro che
>sono
>cattolici (i papa credo dice di no, ma questo è un altro discorso).
>
>Ciao
>Martin

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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Fra Mauro]

Se capisco bene dalla wiki, questa : 
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_di_Santa_Maria_in_Cosmedin che è della 
ReligioneCristiana cattolica di rito greco-melchita, sarebbe:
denomination=greek_catholic

Corretto?

Il 24 Febbraio 2020 11:00:18 CET, Luigi Toscano  ha 
scritto:
>Simone Saviolo ha scritto:
>> In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti:
>romano,
>> ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati a piccole
>comunità. 
>> 
>> Io da tempo sono passato ad usare denomination=roman_catholic, ma non
>sono per
>> niente convinto che questo tag riguardi il rito: per me, "roman
>catholic" vuol
>> solo dire che la chiesa fa parte di una diocesi che prende come
>riferimento il
>> papa. Mi chiedo se il rito non vada piuttosto indicato sulla diocesi,
>e non
>> sulla singola chiesa...
>
>È più complicato del previsto: ci sono sicuramente parrocchie di rito
>romano
>nell'eparchia italo-albanese di Piana degli Albanesi.
>
>Allo stesso modo, singole chiese in diocesi con vescovo di rito romano
>possono
>essere state date a chiese cattoliche orientali.
>
>In ogni caso credo non sia opportuno usare una modifica di massa. Se è
>facile
>immaginare che le eccezioni sono state già mappate come tali, secondo
>me
>l'informazione andrebbe verificata prima di cambiare in massa, e
>lasciare il
>generico catholic non è un grosso problema, perché comunque la
>partecipazione
>alla celebrazione è valida per chiunque sia tale, indipendentemente
>dallo
>specifico rito.
>
>-- 
>Luigi
>
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Ian Steer]

 

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:33, Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an 
entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't need 
these junction tags.

 

The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a motorway 
exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's different to 
destination sign.

 

eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1, then 
he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the highway=motorway_junction 
would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits but they exist in other 
countries, and maybe here too.

 

If I've understood properly, we've got a few of them around here:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0457042,153.3543885,3a,15y,133.24h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFYA0h_lsvqsWAualmVfFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1011105,153.403105,3a,15y,131.46h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm4vuA4WcyuCaeBf1mkamNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0085086,153.3437299,3a,15y,113.78h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smpdDZK21i8RV9tOdn6Gl4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.9533827,153.343662,3a,24.7y,127.87h,102.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1cD8Na9AZrWjwcNdLAdxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

So how should these be tagged?

Thanks

Graeme

 

Yes, that is what I thought highway=motorway_junction ought to be used for (but 
not where the exit is not numbered in any way)

 

Ian

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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Nel dataset ci sono sicuramente. mi pare di averne processati.
Domani controllo e risolvo anche il addr:postcode


Il lun 24 feb 2020, 19:00 Damjan Gerl  ha scritto:

> Mi sembra anche strano che non ci sia nessun numero con lettera a/b/c...
> Non ci sono veramente oppure mancano?
>
> Damjan
>
>
> Francesco Ansanelli je 24.2.2020 ob 18:53 napisal:
>
> Ciao
>
> Il lun 24 feb 2020, 15:58 Cascafico Giovanni  ha
> scritto:
>
>> Qui [1] trovate l'audit (revisione condivisa) per i numeri civici di
>> Codogno. I dati sono dal portale opendata Lombardia, dataset provincia
>> di Lodi. Non ho ancora redatto la wiki per l'import (con la relativa
>> procedura, link, definizione di licenze). In ogni caso può essere
>> utile per una valutazione collettiva deilla qualità.
>>
>
> La qualità sembra buona, ma andrebbero prima estratti ed unificati i nomi
> delle strade, es.
> "Via C.G. Bignami" <> "Via Bignami" (su OSM)
>
> Se no ci troviamo dei civici non associati e nomi non in linea con le
> direttive Istat.
>
> Francesco
>
>
>> [1] http://audit.osmz.ru/project/CiviciCodogno/
>>
>> Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:46 mbranco2 
>> ha scritto:
>> >
>> > Migliorare la mappatura di quelle zone è comunque di utilità generale,
>> male non fa..
>> >
>> > Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:08 Martin Koppenhoefer <
>> dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> sent from a phone
>> >>
>> >> > On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:57, Cascafico Giovanni 
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni possano essere al momento
>> >> > utili per qs emergenza
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> infatti, da fuori lo vedo impossibile in mancanza di informazioni
>> attuali di aiutare con la mappatura. Un scopo potrebbe essere di migliorare
>> la mappa “generica” (edifici) in vista di un’attenzione mediatica
>> cresciuta, per dare supporto ai giornalisti, ma temo, purtroppo, che per
>> gli abitanti di questi posti non sarà di grande aiuto concreto...
>> >>
>> >> Ciao Martin
>> >> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Il 24 feb 2020 6:55 PM, "Francesco Ansanelli"  ha
scritto:

La qualità sembra buona, ma andrebbero prima estratti ed unificati i nomi
delle strade, es.
"Via C.G. Bignami" <> "Via Bignami" (su OSM)

Se no ci troviamo dei civici non associati e nomi non in linea con le
direttive Istat.


Certo. Però da quel che ricordo anche "via bignami" non segue le
direttive...
Poi in OSM ci sono i soliti Giovanni xxiii, xx settembre, ecc.
Per eventuale import sarei per adattare le highway name al dataset perché
tutto sommato c.g. bignami porta più info del solo cognome.
In Friuli Venezia Giulia abbiam fatto così e poi rammendato usando
geofabrik osminpector per la coerenza highway-addr.
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Warin]

It was I who raised the issue.


Interest to see others thoughts, and some ideas on some sort of 
consistence, if that can be obtained?


From an Australian perspective of 'our' showgrounds' in the countryside.

Most of the year they are vacant. They do get some use from equestrian 
activities.. some have sports activities. A fair few provide camping 
facilities.
The 'shows' typically have 'sports' such as wood chopping and equestrian 
activities. They also have the 'side show ally' things of rides.


I think the above fit into recreational use, and so most of the use is 
as a recreation ground, access and fees can be indicated using those 
tags I see no reason to stipulate that a recreation ground must be 
'public'.


I was trying to find any other way for tagging showgrounds using 
taginfo, and came across the amenity=showground with some ~6 uses. I 
then selected on of these in the UK where they are most prevalent. This 
one is tagged as 'amenity=showground' with 'landuse=grass', that mix to 
me is wrong. If it is 'amenity=showground' then the grass should, 
strictly speaking, be tagged with surface=grass, however this will not 
render. Using 'landuse=grass' obtains rendering.


A difficulty with OSM is mapping permanent things is the norm, cyclic 
things get less attention.


On 24/2/20 8:57 pm, Mark Goodge wrote:

Morning all,

Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties 
showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass 
rather than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really 
ought to be landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of 
surface=grass.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235

I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it 
would be worth throwing out here as well.


I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally 
incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the 
wiki and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a 
show is on and when one isn't.


The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, 
most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of 
grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a 
minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.


Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem 
to have any consistency.


The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170

The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277

So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643

The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but 
in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a 
showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220

The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a 
network of roads and individual features:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065

Similarly with the Norfolk Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793

And the Bath and West Showground:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265

So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought 
to be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear 
boundaries and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm 
less sure what the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is 
usually wrong, for the reasons I've already given, but I can see an 
argument for either grass, recreation_ground or even park.


Thoughts, anyone?

Mark


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[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: Espace Public Numérique d'Arlon - OpenStreetMap - Cartographie numérique - Atelier ouvert

[Pierre Parmentier]

Bonjour,

L'Espace Public Numérique (EPN) d'Arlon vous ouvre ses portes pour un
atelier "OpenStreetMap" ce mercredi 4 mars de 13.00 à 17.00 heures.

Voir : https://www.epnarlon.com/nos-ateliers/mars-2020/

C'est ouvert à tous !

Pas de programme prédéfini mais vous pourrez poser vos questions, recevoir
des conseils, expérimenter en matière de cartographie numérique.

On pourra aborder OpenStreetMap, uMap, Osmand, OSMTracker, MyOSMatic,
Inkscape, Field Papers, overpass turbo, la création d'itinéraires, la
réalisation de cartes "papier" ainsi que les géo-portails de nos régions.

Pierre Parmentier
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:33, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an
> entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't
> need these junction tags.
>
> The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a
> motorway exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's
> different to destination sign.
>
> eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1,
> then he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the
> highway=motorway_junction would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits
> but they exist in other countries, and maybe here too.
>

If I've understood properly, we've got a few of them around here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0457042,153.3543885,3a,15y,133.24h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFYA0h_lsvqsWAualmVfFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1011105,153.403105,3a,15y,131.46h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm4vuA4WcyuCaeBf1mkamNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0085086,153.3437299,3a,15y,113.78h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smpdDZK21i8RV9tOdn6Gl4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.9533827,153.343662,3a,24.7y,127.87h,102.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1cD8Na9AZrWjwcNdLAdxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

So how should these be tagged?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Talk-it] Tagging per parcheggi disabili riservati

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Grazie della risposta Federico,

On 24/02/20 15:15, Federico Cortese wrote:

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 8:02 AM Alessandro Sarretta
 wrote:

Buongiorno,
durante le giornate del FOSS4G a Torino, tra i pochi edit fatti in OSM, ho 
aggiunto anche alcuni stalli per disabili.
Il tagging di base che ho usato è essenziale: amenity=parking_space + 
disabled=designated
Vi chiedo un feedback per alcuni dettagli aggiuntivi che possono essere utili 
per standardizzare un po' la mappatura di questi elementi.

Ciao Alessandro,
quando abbiamo affrontato a Lecce questo argomento abbiamo scelto di
usare semplicemente amenity=parking + capacity:disabled=* (vedi qui:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/R0N).
Sicuramente il tag che proponi è più specifico, anche se richiede
comunque che sia mappato l'intero parcheggio con amenity=parking,
perchè amenity=parking_space non è alternativo al primo, ma serve solo
per aggiungere maggior dettaglio nell'individuare i singoli spazi.
A dire la verità non sono molto convinto dell'approccio usato. 
/parking_space/ è usato appunto per mappare singoli posti auto, mentre 
mi pare voi abbiate usato /amenity=parking/ per un singolo posto anche 
se di fianco c'erano altri posti auto "normali", forzando /parking/ 
all'utilizzo per un solo posto, che è invece lo scopo specifico di 
/parking_space/. Non è che lo scopo principale di questo tagging sia 
rendere il posto visibile in mappa? Se si pensasse però a una 
rappresentazione specifica per le persone con disabilità (cosa a cui 
vorrei arrivare prima o poi), questo tipo di tagging non permetterebbe 
di distinguere tra parcheggi grandi con un posto per disabili al loro 
interno da singoli stalli per disabili...

Poi per rendere l'idea di quanti parcheggi riservati a disabili ci
siano (capita spesso che ce ne siano 2/3 tutti in un punto) usando
parking_space si deve aggiungere capacity=* e non capacity:disabled=*,
perchè quest'ultimo può essere usato solo sull'intero amenity=parking.


Questa osservazione non l'ho capita; con /parking_space/ dove metteresti 
l'informazione sull'accesso riservato alle persone con disabilità?


Tra l'altro, disabled=designated indica chiaramente una condizione di 
accesso per cui in quel posto possono parcheggiare solamente persone con 
disabilità, mentre capacity:disabled=* non mi sembra includa alcuna 
indicazione del permesso o restrizione legale.





In questo caso specifico (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7238135537), il 
cartello conteneva anche l'informazione che lo stallo è riservato (con 
indicazione del numero di assegnazione) durante i giorni lavorativi dalle 7:30 
alle 20:00.
Ho usato il tag:
access:conditional=private @ (Mo-Fr 07:30-20:00)
Vi sembra corretto?



Più in generale, nella mappatura per i posti per disabili, ho riscontrato 
l'esigenza di segnalare se il posto è riservato (numero di assegnazione 
visibile sul cartello), oppure se è invece possibile parcheggiare per chiunque 
sia in possesso dell'apposito contrassegno disabili.
Nel caso generico in cui non ci sia un'indicazione di limitazione temporale, ma 
solo il numero di assegnazione dello stallo, concordate sul fatto che sia 
possibile e corretto taggarlo con access=private ?

Sì, noi i parcheggi riservati non li abbiamo inseriti, ma mi pare
corretto usare access=private.

Non li avete inseriti o non li avete differenziati come privati?

Sono un po' restio ad aggiungere in OSM anche il numero specifico dello stallo 
riservato, ma nel caso lo si faccia, dovrebbe essere usato il tag name= ?
(dalla pagina amenity=parking_space: "If the parking space has a number, license 
plate or other written information printed on its surface or on a plate in front of the 
space, it should be put in the name tag. Examples: 1, 2, 3, L6F-33S, Big Boss parking 
space")

Anche noi eravamo restii ad inserire quei codici, poi non abbiamo
inserito nemmeno i parcheggi. Volendoli mappare io avrei optato per un
tag ref, ma nella pagina che citi lo esclude chiaramente a favore di
name: mi sembra strano, ma vediamo cosa ne pensano gli altri.
Su questo non ho un'opinione precisa e, appunto, cercavo di interpretare 
quanto scritto nella pagina wiki.


Sarebbe comunque utile concordare su delle linee guida comuni e provare 
a suggerire una mappatura degli stalli per disabili in modo un po' più 
chiaro di come appare adesso nelle pagine wiki...


Ale

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bizarrerie OSMand+ (Deux-Sèvres)

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 24/02/2020 à 22:06, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :

> Je vois par exemple l'A10 qui s'arrête entre Beauvoir-sur-Niort au sud
> et La Maison Neuve au nord.


Suite : même la carte rechargée la bizarrerie persiste.

Ce coin de France est maudit. N'y allez pas !

J.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bizarrerie OSMand+ (Deux-Sèvres)

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 24/02/2020 à 21:53, Philippe Verdy a écrit :


Je pense que c'est ton fichier de carte OSMand qui est incomplet


Rechargée. Ok.

Merci,

Désolé pour le bruit.

J.

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bizarrerie OSMand+ (Deux-Sèvres)

[osm . sanspourriel]

Avec les données locales on arrive aux mêmes genres de bizarreries mais
c'est valable partout en zoomant/dézoomant.

Je vois par exemple l'A10 qui s'arrête entre Beauvoir-sur-Niort au sud
et La Maison Neuve au nord.

Il suffit de dézoomer ou de zoomer pour retrouver la continuité.

Certains optimisations d'OSMand m'échappent (non ce n'est pas un
problème de données mais bien de rendu).

Jean-Yvon

Le 24/02/2020 à 21:51, David Crochet - david.croc...@free.fr a écrit :

Bonjour

Le 24/02/2020 à 21:44, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :

Problème d'affichage de OSMAnd ou mauvaise continuité du chemin ?


As tu téléchargé la carte, car il me semble que c'est l'affichage
vectoriel "monde" qui s'affiche

Cordialement




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Re: [Talk-it] Cercasi traduttore per una frase

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 24. Feb 2020, at 15:02, Marco  wrote:
> 
> Le maggiori differenze sono "contributors"  tradotto come "contributori" 
> perché è quella più comunemente utilizzata e "per maggiori informazioni" 
> accorciato in "per altre info".


i contributors sono forse superati, ci sta una nuova bozza di attribuzione 
presentata la settimana scorsa dalla LWG e nelle discussioni Simon Poole ha 
spiegato che con la ODbL/CT non hanno più senso come prima (i diritti copyright 
 sono concessi direttamente alla OSMF). Non è ancora in vigore (e ci sono 
ancora problemi, “lamentatevi“ anche voi se ritenete necessario).

Ciao Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bizarrerie OSMand+ (Deux-Sèvres)

[Philippe Verdy]

Je pense que c'est ton fichier de carte OSMand qui est incomplet (ou a
été mal généré), mets à jour. Rien n'a changé sur cette route depuis 6
mois au moins.

Le lun. 24 févr. 2020 à 21:45, Jacques Lavignotte
 a écrit :
>
> Bonsoir,
>
> Une bizarrerie apparaît avec OSMAnd+ aux environs de Chemin : 715042153
> entre Beauvoir sur Niort et Prissé-la-Charrière
>
> On voit avec OSMAnd
>
> https://postimg.cc/gallery/26n2w3d60/
>
> qu'à certains niveaux de zoom la D650 est coupée.
>
> Problème d'affichage de OSMAnd ou mauvaise continuité du chemin ?
>
> J'ai regardé avec JOSM mais mon incompétence n'a rien vu.
>
> Merci,
>
> Jacques
>
> --
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Bizarrerie OSMand+ (Deux-Sèvres)

[David Crochet]

Bonjour

Le 24/02/2020 à 21:44, Jacques Lavignotte a écrit :
Problème d'affichage de OSMAnd ou mauvaise continuité du chemin ? 


As tu téléchargé la carte, car il me semble que c'est l'affichage 
vectoriel "monde" qui s'affiche


Cordialement

--
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[OSM-talk-fr] Bizarrerie OSMand+ (Deux-Sèvres)

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Bonsoir,

Une bizarrerie apparaît avec OSMAnd+ aux environs de Chemin : 715042153
entre Beauvoir sur Niort et Prissé-la-Charrière

On voit avec OSMAnd

https://postimg.cc/gallery/26n2w3d60/

qu'à certains niveaux de zoom la D650 est coupée.

Problème d'affichage de OSMAnd ou mauvaise continuité du chemin ?

J'ai regardé avec JOSM mais mon incompétence n'a rien vu.

Merci,

Jacques

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] rendu inconsistant des caches de tuiles OSM.org

[Philippe Verdy]

Il semble que le cache de tuiles à problems soit "london-02". Le
problème semble être qu'il ne parvient pas à recevoir les tuiles à
jour (problème de connexion ou de stockage local) et qu'un système de
repli lui fait renvoyer les anciennes copies qu'il a, mais avec une
date de validité remise à jour. Mais en cas de surcharge sur un des
serveurs, il semble que les autres caches peuvent aller reprendre ces
copies anciennes et ne s'aperçoivent pas que ce qu'on leur donne n'est
pas un rafraichissement mais une copie plus ancienne qui vient écraser
une version pourtant plus récent qu'un serveur de cache avait... d'où
le "yoyo" et les rendus inconsistants.

Il semble que rien n'indique dans les métadonnées tuiles quand elles
ont été réellement générées sur un serveur de rendu source avant
d'être répliquées, il n'y a pas de conservation des métadonnées et
cela semble s'appuyer uniquement sur les dates locales de création ou
modification fichiers, ce qui n'est pas du tout la même chose : le
fait de modifier un fichier en y enregistrant des données venant d'un
autre serveur vient inscrire la date actuelel et non la date HTTP
d'origine: la datation est corrompue.

Je n'ai aucun idée comment la réplication des tuiles entre les cache
se fait mais si cela utilise les mêmes requêtes HTTP que nous tous,
les métadonnées HTTP devraient être gardées et la date locale des
fichiers n'a aucune valeur et ne devrait pas être utilisée du tout
(surtout si le système de fichier local n'est lui-même pas à l'heure
sur un serveur sans synchro NTP).

En tout cas quelquechose ne marche pas, et il y a plusieurs sources
possibles et toutes les vérifications ne sont pas en place et les
protocoles (ou logiciels sensés les utiliser) ne semble pas au point.
Il y a un bogue et ça finit par couter globalement cher en ressources
réseau et en surcharge sur les serveurs de rendu.

Le lun. 24 févr. 2020 à 19:22, Philippe Verdy  a écrit :
>
> Il semble que certains des caches de tuiles du rendu Carto d'OSM.org
> ne fonctionnent pas correctement et ne cessent de se renvoyer des
> copies d'anciens rendus venant écraser les nouveaux reçus d'autres
> serveurs.
> Cela semble indiquer que certains serveurs ne sont pas correctement
> datés et ne parviennent pas à interpréter les dates d'expiration
> correctement dans les entêtes HTTP.
> Et cela pourrait expliquer aussi la surcharge actuelle des serveurs de
> rendu qui recalculent sans arrêt les mêmes zones sans parvenir à
> synchroniser les caches.
> Et cela se voit sur la carte finale (avec des vas-et-viens d'une
> version à l'autre des mêmes tuiles, même sans changement dans les
> données de la base OSM).
> Ou alors certains serveurs de rendus sont désynchronisés avec le flux
> des minute diff et ont à faire des "corrections" ou appliquent dnals
> leur propre base des données inconsistantes ne correspondant plus du
> tout à ce qui est dans la base principale, et incapables de prendre en
> compte des nouveaux changements (exemple: référence de certains ways à
> des noeuds inexistants marqués comme supprimés).
> Y-a-t-il des problèmes de synchro pour la réplication des bases et
> a-t-on un service qui permette de contrôler que tous les serveurs de
> bases (principale et esclaves), de rendus, et de caches sont bien
> synchronisés avec NTP et que leurs horloges sont cohérentes ainsi que
> les horloges internes des serveurs web (Apache ou Squid) ?
> Y a-t-il une programmation permettant de redémarrer les serveurs un
> par un régulièrement et vérifier leur intégrité et synchronisation,
> pour éviter ces "yoyos" très préjudiciables et aussi finalement
> limiter les requêtes et la consommation de bande passante et de
> ressources CPU/disque sur ces serveurs ?
> En tout cas la synchro entre serveurs ne semble pas sécurisée du tout,
> tout semble se faire sans aucune métadonnée de contrôle qui pourrait
> éviter d'écraser constamment des données correctement mises à jour par
> des données anciennes qui ne devraient plus être là.
> C'est peut-être un problème des systèmes de fichiers montés
> (particulièrement si le stockage des images se fait en réseau): des
> "fsck" réguliers semblent s'imposer aussi.

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Re: [Talk-ca] James work on Task Manager

[John Whelan]

From memory you're based in Cobourg and Port Hope in Ontario.   
Squamish is in BC so may not be local to you.


The Ottawa cycle club did some mapping in OSM 
https://github.com/BikeOttawa/OSM-Bike-Ottawa-Tagging-Guide you may find 
this useful.


Task manager is better suited to imports and to mapping from satellite 
data.


If you're on the ground then Street Complete, or Vespucci on android are 
useful, also OSMand for adding POIs.  iD on a windows laptop or tablet.  
There are editors for Apple Ios avaulbale but I'm not familiar with them.


JOSM is about the most powerful editor but it doesn't run on a 
smartphone as far as I am aware.


If you just want to add to Mapillary then their web site will show you 
what has been photographed so far and it isn't very much in Cobourg or 
Port Hope.


I'm not sure what the advantage of having a task set up on task manager 
would be.


Have fun

Cheerio John

jonab...@gmail.com wrote on 2020-02-24 8:24 AM:


When James has finished tweaking the Task Manager, I would like to 
test it out with our local bike club along with Mapillary streetview. 
http://tasks.openstreetmap.in/project/84


Jonathan



Hi all,

I was able to split Squamish into Quadtree tiles with a maximum of 200 
buildings each. James is now looking into whether/how this could be 
implemented in the task manager. If no one else is volunteering to be 
the local import manager this week, I will do the work and contact 
Squamish's local mappers. Since most ODB buildings were imported about 
a year ago, I don't expect an opposition from local mappers with 
reviewing that import.




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Re: [Talk-it] Cercasi traduttore per una frase

[Marco]

Sono d'accordo; purtroppo lo spazio sull'adesivo (che ha una dimensione
fisica di 7cm per 1cm) è limitato e bisogna scendere a compromessi. Ho
modificato il testo come da te suggerito, puoi vedere il risultato al
solito link.

Grazie,
Marco.

Il lun 24 feb 2020, 15:17 Ivo Reano  ha scritto:

> Con la traduzione di contributors però ci vorrebbe un "di" per mantenerne
> il senso.
> Questa mappa usa orgogliosamente dati creati dai contributori *di*
> OpenStreetMap.org
>
> Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 15:02 Marco  ha
> scritto:
>
>> Ho prodotto un adesivo in Italiano¹ modificando quello era presente in
>> inglese. La traduzione è simile a quella proposta in questo thread ma ho
>> fatto qualche modifica soprattutto per via dello spazio limitato. Le
>> maggiori differenze sono "contributors"  tradotto come "contributori"
>> perché è quella più comunemente utilizzata e "per maggiori informazioni"
>> accorciato in "per altre info".
>>
>> Il formato dell'adesivo è vettoriale (SVG) e può essere modificato
>> infinite volte senza perdita di informazione, in più risiedendo in un wiki
>> chiunque può (è incoraggiato a) migliorarlo.
>>
>> ¹
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:2020-02-attribution-fixer-sticker-IT-proposed.svg
>>
>> Il dom 2 feb 2020, 13:39 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>>
>>> Non vorrei ci fossero problemi ortografici e/o grammaticali, quindi vi
>>> segnalo la pagina e spero qualcuno possa aiutare ;-)
>>>
>>>
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[OSM-talk-fr] rendu inconsistant des caches de tuiles OSM.org

[Philippe Verdy]

Il semble que certains des caches de tuiles du rendu Carto d'OSM.org
ne fonctionnent pas correctement et ne cessent de se renvoyer des
copies d'anciens rendus venant écraser les nouveaux reçus d'autres
serveurs.
Cela semble indiquer que certains serveurs ne sont pas correctement
datés et ne parviennent pas à interpréter les dates d'expiration
correctement dans les entêtes HTTP.
Et cela pourrait expliquer aussi la surcharge actuelle des serveurs de
rendu qui recalculent sans arrêt les mêmes zones sans parvenir à
synchroniser les caches.
Et cela se voit sur la carte finale (avec des vas-et-viens d'une
version à l'autre des mêmes tuiles, même sans changement dans les
données de la base OSM).
Ou alors certains serveurs de rendus sont désynchronisés avec le flux
des minute diff et ont à faire des "corrections" ou appliquent dnals
leur propre base des données inconsistantes ne correspondant plus du
tout à ce qui est dans la base principale, et incapables de prendre en
compte des nouveaux changements (exemple: référence de certains ways à
des noeuds inexistants marqués comme supprimés).
Y-a-t-il des problèmes de synchro pour la réplication des bases et
a-t-on un service qui permette de contrôler que tous les serveurs de
bases (principale et esclaves), de rendus, et de caches sont bien
synchronisés avec NTP et que leurs horloges sont cohérentes ainsi que
les horloges internes des serveurs web (Apache ou Squid) ?
Y a-t-il une programmation permettant de redémarrer les serveurs un
par un régulièrement et vérifier leur intégrité et synchronisation,
pour éviter ces "yoyos" très préjudiciables et aussi finalement
limiter les requêtes et la consommation de bande passante et de
ressources CPU/disque sur ces serveurs ?
En tout cas la synchro entre serveurs ne semble pas sécurisée du tout,
tout semble se faire sans aucune métadonnée de contrôle qui pourrait
éviter d'écraser constamment des données correctement mises à jour par
des données anciennes qui ne devraient plus être là.
C'est peut-être un problème des systèmes de fichiers montés
(particulièrement si le stockage des images se fait en réseau): des
"fsck" réguliers semblent s'imposer aussi.

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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Damjan Gerl]

  
  
Mi sembra anche strano che non ci sia
  nessun numero con lettera a/b/c... Non ci sono veramente oppure
  mancano?
  
  Damjan
  
  
  Francesco Ansanelli je 24.2.2020 ob 18:53 napisal:


  
  
Ciao

  
Il lun 24 feb 2020, 15:58
  Cascafico Giovanni 
  ha scritto:

Qui [1]
  trovate l'audit (revisione condivisa) per i numeri civici
  di
  Codogno. I dati sono dal portale opendata Lombardia,
  dataset provincia
  di Lodi. Non ho ancora redatto la wiki per l'import (con
  la relativa
  procedura, link, definizione di licenze). In ogni caso può
  essere
  utile per una valutazione collettiva deilla qualità.

  



La qualità sembra buona, ma andrebbero prima
  estratti ed unificati i nomi delle strade, es. 
"Via
C.G. Bignami" <> "Via
Bignami" (su OSM)


Se no ci troviamo dei civici non associati e
  nomi non in linea con le direttive Istat.


Francesco



  

  
  [1] http://audit.osmz.ru/project/CiviciCodogno/
  
  Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:46 mbranco2 
  ha scritto:
  >
  > Migliorare la mappatura di quelle zone è comunque di
  utilità generale, male non fa..
  >
  > Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:08 Martin
  Koppenhoefer 
  ha scritto:
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> sent from a phone
  >>
  >> > On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:57, Cascafico
  Giovanni 
  wrote:
  >> >
  >> > Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni
  possano essere al momento
  >> > utili per qs emergenza
  >>
  >>
  >> infatti, da fuori lo vedo impossibile in mancanza
  di informazioni attuali di aiutare con la mappatura. Un
  scopo potrebbe essere di migliorare la mappa “generica”
  (edifici) in vista di un’attenzione mediatica cresciuta,
  per dare supporto ai giornalisti, ma temo, purtroppo, che
  per gli abitanti di questi posti non sarà di grande aiuto
  concreto...
  >>
  >> Ciao Martin
  >> ___
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  >> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
  >
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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Marcello]

Non immaginavo tutta questa varietà, per evitare errori continuerò ad 
usare il più generico denomination=catholic.


Ciao
Marcello

Il 24/02/20 14:30, Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto:
Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 14:10 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo 
mailto:simone.savi...@gmail.com>>:


Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:58 Martin Koppenhoefer
mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:

Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 10:42 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo
mailto:simone.savi...@gmail.com>>:

In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su
tre riti: romano, ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono
altri riti limitati a piccole comunità.

infatti, ci sono altre "denomination" cattoliche (per esempio
russian_orthodox / orthodox, greek_othodox,
armenian_catholic,...):
https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/denomination#values


Gli ortodossi non sono cattolici. Forse intendevi dire "altre
denominazioni cristiane".



no, intendevo proprio dire altri cattolici. Loro dicono di loro che 
sono cattolici (i papa credo dice di no, ma questo è un altro discorso).


Ciao
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Francesco Ansanelli]

Ciao

Il lun 24 feb 2020, 15:58 Cascafico Giovanni  ha
scritto:

> Qui [1] trovate l'audit (revisione condivisa) per i numeri civici di
> Codogno. I dati sono dal portale opendata Lombardia, dataset provincia
> di Lodi. Non ho ancora redatto la wiki per l'import (con la relativa
> procedura, link, definizione di licenze). In ogni caso può essere
> utile per una valutazione collettiva deilla qualità.
>

La qualità sembra buona, ma andrebbero prima estratti ed unificati i nomi
delle strade, es.
"Via C.G. Bignami" <> "Via Bignami" (su OSM)

Se no ci troviamo dei civici non associati e nomi non in linea con le
direttive Istat.

Francesco


> [1] http://audit.osmz.ru/project/CiviciCodogno/
>
> Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:46 mbranco2 
> ha scritto:
> >
> > Migliorare la mappatura di quelle zone è comunque di utilità generale,
> male non fa..
> >
> > Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:08 Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> sent from a phone
> >>
> >> > On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:57, Cascafico Giovanni 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni possano essere al momento
> >> > utili per qs emergenza
> >>
> >>
> >> infatti, da fuori lo vedo impossibile in mancanza di informazioni
> attuali di aiutare con la mappatura. Un scopo potrebbe essere di migliorare
> la mappa “generica” (edifici) in vista di un’attenzione mediatica
> cresciuta, per dare supporto ai giornalisti, ma temo, purtroppo, che per
> gli abitanti di questi posti non sarà di grande aiuto concreto...
> >>
> >> Ciao Martin
> >> ___
> >> Talk-it mailing list
> >> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-it mailing list
> > Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] James work on Task Manager

[Daniel @jfd553]

First, do you want to be the local import manager?
We agreed to use the Squamish region as a benchmark to test the proposed import 
procedure [1]. Are you aware of this procedure?
We also agreed that this import required some know-how with JOSM. Do you feel 
comfortable enough with JOSM to be involved? What about the other members of 
your bike club?

Any comments?
Daniel

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada_-_The_Open_Database_of_Buildings

From: jonab...@gmail.com [mailto:jonab...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 08:24
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] James work on Task Manager

When James has finished tweaking the Task Manager, I would like to test it out 
with our local bike club along with Mapillary streetview. 
http://tasks.openstreetmap.in/project/84

Jonathan


Hi all,
I was able to split Squamish into Quadtree tiles with a maximum of 200 
buildings each. James is now looking into whether/how this could be implemented 
in the task manager. If no one else is volunteering to be the local import 
manager this week, I will do the work and contact Squamish's local mappers. 
Since most ODB buildings were imported about a year ago, I don't expect an 
opposition from local mappers with reviewing that import.


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Re: [Talk-ca] James work on Task Manager

[john whelan]

Are you simply asking for a task to be set up or something else?

James currently is looking at the data to import then resizing the squares
to better fit the task.

I don't think there are any plans to import buildings in your local area.
I seem to recall mapping a thousand or so  manually in JOSM so the locals
you organised could add detail.  I seem to recall we got one address added
by the locals.

Cheerio John

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 8:26 AM ,  wrote:

> When James has finished tweaking the Task Manager, I would like to test it
> out with our local bike club along with Mapillary streetview.
> http://tasks.openstreetmap.in/project/84
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> 
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was able to split Squamish into Quadtree tiles with a maximum of 200
> buildings each. James is now looking into whether/how this could be
> implemented in the task manager. If no one else is volunteering to be the
> local import manager this week, I will do the work and contact Squamish's
> local mappers. Since most ODB buildings were imported about a year ago, I
> don't expect an opposition from local mappers with reviewing that import.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Maurizio Napolitano]

> []
> Non ho ancora redatto la wiki per l'import (con la relativa
> procedura, link, definizione di licenze).

so di essere antipatico ma la licenza è incompatibile, poi per me non
c'è problema se si fa l'import

> In ogni caso può essere
> utile per una valutazione collettiva deilla qualità.

Ho fatto un clic a caso su un punto e compare
addr:postcode = Milano

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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Qui [1] trovate l'audit (revisione condivisa) per i numeri civici di
Codogno. I dati sono dal portale opendata Lombardia, dataset provincia
di Lodi. Non ho ancora redatto la wiki per l'import (con la relativa
procedura, link, definizione di licenze). In ogni caso può essere
utile per una valutazione collettiva deilla qualità.

[1] http://audit.osmz.ru/project/CiviciCodogno/

Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:46 mbranco2 
ha scritto:
>
> Migliorare la mappatura di quelle zone è comunque di utilità generale, male 
> non fa..
>
> Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:08 Martin Koppenhoefer 
>  ha scritto:
>>
>>
>>
>> sent from a phone
>>
>> > On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:57, Cascafico Giovanni  wrote:
>> >
>> > Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni possano essere al momento
>> > utili per qs emergenza
>>
>>
>> infatti, da fuori lo vedo impossibile in mancanza di informazioni attuali di 
>> aiutare con la mappatura. Un scopo potrebbe essere di migliorare la mappa 
>> “generica” (edifici) in vista di un’attenzione mediatica cresciuta, per dare 
>> supporto ai giornalisti, ma temo, purtroppo, che per gli abitanti di questi 
>> posti non sarà di grande aiuto concreto...
>>
>> Ciao Martin
>> ___
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>> Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
>
> ___
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Re: [Talk-it] Tagging per parcheggi disabili riservati

[Federico Cortese]

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 8:02 AM Alessandro Sarretta
 wrote:
>
> Buongiorno,
> durante le giornate del FOSS4G a Torino, tra i pochi edit fatti in OSM, ho 
> aggiunto anche alcuni stalli per disabili.
> Il tagging di base che ho usato è essenziale: amenity=parking_space + 
> disabled=designated
> Vi chiedo un feedback per alcuni dettagli aggiuntivi che possono essere utili 
> per standardizzare un po' la mappatura di questi elementi.

Ciao Alessandro,
quando abbiamo affrontato a Lecce questo argomento abbiamo scelto di
usare semplicemente amenity=parking + capacity:disabled=* (vedi qui:
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/R0N).
Sicuramente il tag che proponi è più specifico, anche se richiede
comunque che sia mappato l'intero parcheggio con amenity=parking,
perchè amenity=parking_space non è alternativo al primo, ma serve solo
per aggiungere maggior dettaglio nell'individuare i singoli spazi.
Poi per rendere l'idea di quanti parcheggi riservati a disabili ci
siano (capita spesso che ce ne siano 2/3 tutti in un punto) usando
parking_space si deve aggiungere capacity=* e non capacity:disabled=*,
perchè quest'ultimo può essere usato solo sull'intero amenity=parking.

> In questo caso specifico (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7238135537), il 
> cartello conteneva anche l'informazione che lo stallo è riservato (con 
> indicazione del numero di assegnazione) durante i giorni lavorativi dalle 
> 7:30 alle 20:00.
> Ho usato il tag:
> access:conditional=private @ (Mo-Fr 07:30-20:00)
> Vi sembra corretto?


> Più in generale, nella mappatura per i posti per disabili, ho riscontrato 
> l'esigenza di segnalare se il posto è riservato (numero di assegnazione 
> visibile sul cartello), oppure se è invece possibile parcheggiare per 
> chiunque sia in possesso dell'apposito contrassegno disabili.
> Nel caso generico in cui non ci sia un'indicazione di limitazione temporale, 
> ma solo il numero di assegnazione dello stallo, concordate sul fatto che sia 
> possibile e corretto taggarlo con access=private ?

Sì, noi i parcheggi riservati non li abbiamo inseriti, ma mi pare
corretto usare access=private.

> Sono un po' restio ad aggiungere in OSM anche il numero specifico dello 
> stallo riservato, ma nel caso lo si faccia, dovrebbe essere usato il tag 
> name= ?
> (dalla pagina amenity=parking_space: "If the parking space has a number, 
> license plate or other written information printed on its surface or on a 
> plate in front of the space, it should be put in the name tag. Examples: 1, 
> 2, 3, L6F-33S, Big Boss parking space")

Anche noi eravamo restii ad inserire quei codici, poi non abbiamo
inserito nemmeno i parcheggi. Volendoli mappare io avrei optato per un
tag ref, ma nella pagina che citi lo esclude chiaramente a favore di
name: mi sembra strano, ma vediamo cosa ne pensano gli altri.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Cercasi traduttore per una frase

[Ivo Reano]

Bella!
Ottimo lavoro.
Con la traduzione di contributors però ci vorrebbe un "di" per mantenerne
il senso.
Questa mappa usa orgogliosamente dati creati dai contributori *di*
OpenStreetMap.org

Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 15:02 Marco  ha
scritto:

> Ho prodotto un adesivo in Italiano¹ modificando quello era presente in
> inglese. La traduzione è simile a quella proposta in questo thread ma ho
> fatto qualche modifica soprattutto per via dello spazio limitato. Le
> maggiori differenze sono "contributors"  tradotto come "contributori"
> perché è quella più comunemente utilizzata e "per maggiori informazioni"
> accorciato in "per altre info".
>
> Il formato dell'adesivo è vettoriale (SVG) e può essere modificato
> infinite volte senza perdita di informazione, in più risiedendo in un wiki
> chiunque può (è incoraggiato a) migliorarlo.
>
> ¹
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:2020-02-attribution-fixer-sticker-IT-proposed.svg
>
> Il dom 2 feb 2020, 13:39 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
> scritto:
>
>>
>> Non vorrei ci fossero problemi ortografici e/o grammaticali, quindi vi
>> segnalo la pagina e spero qualcuno possa aiutare ;-)
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-it] Cercasi traduttore per una frase

[Marco]

Ho prodotto un adesivo in Italiano¹ modificando quello era presente in
inglese. La traduzione è simile a quella proposta in questo thread ma ho
fatto qualche modifica soprattutto per via dello spazio limitato. Le
maggiori differenze sono "contributors"  tradotto come "contributori"
perché è quella più comunemente utilizzata e "per maggiori informazioni"
accorciato in "per altre info".

Il formato dell'adesivo è vettoriale (SVG) e può essere modificato infinite
volte senza perdita di informazione, in più risiedendo in un wiki chiunque
può (è incoraggiato a) migliorarlo.

¹
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:2020-02-attribution-fixer-sticker-IT-proposed.svg

Il dom 2 feb 2020, 13:39 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

>
> Non vorrei ci fossero problemi ortografici e/o grammaticali, quindi vi
> segnalo la pagina e spero qualcuno possa aiutare ;-)
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Mario Frasca]

On 24/02/2020 06:53, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:

It is quite reasonable to question the use of English in the `name=`
tag for the Baltic Sea.

It would be reasonable to stop using the name= tag for oceans,
continents and international seas, if we can develop a tag which would
specify which of the `name:=` tags should be treated as
the primary ones. This would make it more feasible to design a
rendering for the Baltic Sea, the Mediterranean, and other seas
surrounding by a large number of language areas.

For the oceans and continents there may not be much use in a name tag,
since these labels only make sense on a global map. A map designer or
user can pick the language in that case.

- Joseph Eisenberg


As far as I can understand, Tomek is making two points, one about the 
use of the `name` tag for objects where the English language hardly 
applies (seas surrounded by language areas which do not include English, 
or only marginally so), and one about the communication language in this 
list.  This second point has attracted most attention, and has made it 
hard to keep a constructive discussion about the first.


2: my writing back in French, and hints to Tomek to do the same, or to 
choose German, was a way to shush away the language fight, and keep the 
discussion going.  I finally switched to Italian in despair, because I 
wanted Tomek to feel like I feel looking at his two hardly intelligible 
niche languages, none of them listed in 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers, 
nor appearing in the 1997 George Weber’s list of 10 most influential 
languages.


3: I think there's a third point related to internationalization, not at 
this surface language level, but deeper, when presenting concepts behind 
concrete tags in a way that would be more recognizable by non-European 
mappers.  (I include into "European" everybody with roots in Europe.)  I 
think this is a relevant point, not least because I keep seeing edits in 
Panama changing `unclassified` to `track` only because (this is my 
interpretation): the road is unpaved, people prefer looking at pictures 
than reading, the picture for the agricultural `track` looks much more 
recognizable than the one for the `unclassified` road, possibly and 
marginally because `unclassified` does not ring any bell outside the UK.


1: at some point in the discussion, I myself suggested adding a 
`label:=` tag, so that larger water masses would have 
several names, each positioned near the corresponding language area.


1: also someone (sorry for not looking it up) mentioned "the" map having 
become "the map" not intentionally, but as if by chance or 
misunderstanding.  OSM is a database, and when looking at 
openstreetmap.org you see a possible rendering, in the default 
language.  look at openstreetmap.fr and it will be in French, or 
openstreetmap.de/karte.html for German.


1: actually, please think about the three above examples (.org, .fr, 
.de), and you might see that indeed the `name` tag is out of place, 
since "the map" does not exist outside of the example running on 
openstreetmap.org.  But, Tomek, I would start by making the point there, 
and suggest their renderer to be fixed, and to be heard you need to 
write in English, since you would be speaking to British people.


Tomek, you have a point in what you write, but please have yourself 
heard, and not just experienced as nasty and conflictive.  People, let's 
try not to focus on point '2' alone. and again Tomek, please help us 
here, do choose a "top 3" language in your communications.


https://web.archive.org/web/20110927062910/http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm

ciao, MF


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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 14:10 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo <
simone.savi...@gmail.com>:

> Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:58 Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 10:42 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo <
>> simone.savi...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti:
>>> romano, ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati a
>>> piccole comunità.
>>>
>> infatti, ci sono altre "denomination" cattoliche (per esempio
>> russian_orthodox / orthodox, greek_othodox, armenian_catholic,...):
>> https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/denomination#values
>>
>
> Gli ortodossi non sono cattolici. Forse intendevi dire "altre
> denominazioni cristiane".
>


no, intendevo proprio dire altri cattolici. Loro dicono di loro che sono
cattolici (i papa credo dice di no, ma questo è un altro discorso).

Ciao
Martin
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Re: [Talk-ca] James work on Task Manager

[jonabrow]

When James has finished tweaking the Task Manager, I would like to test it out with our local bike club along with Mapillary streetview. http://tasks.openstreetmap.in/project/84  Jonathan Hi all,I was able to split Squamish into Quadtree tiles with a maximum of 200 buildings each. James is now looking into whether/how this could be implemented in the task manager. If no one else is volunteering to be the local import manager this week, I will do the work and contact Squamish's local mappers. Since most ODB buildings were imported about a year ago, I don't expect an opposition from local mappers with reviewing that import.  

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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Simone Saviolo]

Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:58 Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 10:42 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo <
> simone.savi...@gmail.com>:
>
>> In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti:
>> romano, ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati a
>> piccole comunità.
>>
> infatti, ci sono altre "denomination" cattoliche (per esempio
> russian_orthodox / orthodox, greek_othodox, armenian_catholic,...):
> https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/denomination#values
>

Gli ortodossi non sono cattolici. Forse intendevi dire "altre denominazioni
cristiane".


> Io da tempo sono passato ad usare denomination=roman_catholic, ma non sono
>> per niente convinto che questo tag riguardi il rito: per me, "roman
>> catholic" vuol solo dire che la chiesa fa parte di una diocesi che prende
>> come riferimento il papa. Mi chiedo se il rito non vada piuttosto indicato
>> sulla diocesi, e non sulla singola chiesa...
>>
> sulla questione se il rito è coperto da "denomination" non mi vorrei
> esprimere al momento, ma sulla questione di indicarlo soltanto sulla
> diocesi direi di no: non abbiamo i diocesi, mentre la singola chiesa è
> probabilmente già mappata, quindi sarei a favore di essere esplicito lì.
>

Hai ragione: anche in base a quanto dice Luigi Toscano, nelle diocesi
possono esserci eccezioni.

Sul fatto che non abbiamo le diocesi: dovremmo :) Il problema è che si
tratterebbe di mappare le parrocchie e raccogliere le parrocchie in
diocesi, e non è facile trovare i confini delle parrocchie (mentre l'elenco
delle parrocchie in una diocesi è più facile da trovare).

Ciao,

Simone
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Mark Goodge]

On 24/02/2020 12:02, Ian Caldwell wrote:


As a local, I think it should be tagged as commercial. There is some 
event there most weeks. It's a very commercial organisation.


There are events which use buildings at the showground most weeks 
outside winter. But not that many which use the grass areas.


https://www.visitthemalverns.org/whats-on/event-finder/three-counties-showground-events/

(Note that there's a bug in that calendar which puts a caravan rally on 
every day! That's incorrect; all but two of those days - the real rally 
dates - are actually blank)


Mark

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[OSM-talk-fr] hebdoOSM Nº 500 2020-02-11-2020-02-17

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 500 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12904/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
hebdomadaire sans être membre ? Il vous suffit de vous connecter sur 
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sur la rédaction d'un article, cliquez ici: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
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[Talk-ca] hebdoOSM Nº 500 2020-02-11-2020-02-17

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 500 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12904/

Bonne lecture !

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez vous aussi soumettre des messages pour la note 
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hebdoOSM ? 
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[Talk-ht] hebdoOSM Nº 500 2020-02-11-2020-02-17

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 500 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12904/

Bonne lecture !

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hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
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[Talk-africa] hebdoOSM Nº 500 2020-02-11-2020-02-17

[theweekly . osm]

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 500 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/12904/

Bonne lecture !

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Ian Caldwell via Talk-GB]

As a local, I think it should be tagged as commercial. There is some event
there most weeks. It's a very commercial organisation.



On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, 09:58 Mark Goodge,  wrote:

> Morning all,
>
> Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties
> showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather
> than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be
> landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235
>
> I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would
> be worth throwing out here as well.
>
> I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally
> incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki
> and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is
> on and when one isn't.
>
> The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because,
> most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of
> grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a
> minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.
>
> Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to
> have any consistency.
>
> The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170
>
> The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277
>
> So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643
>
> The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but
> in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a
> showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220
>
> The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a
> network of roads and individual features:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065
>
> Similarly with the Norfolk Showground
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793
>
> And the Bath and West Showground:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265
>
> So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to
> be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries
> and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what
> the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for
> the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either
> grass, recreation_ground or even park.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Mark Goodge]

On 24/02/2020 11:34, Brian Prangle wrote:
This is a case where landcover and landuse get confused in the OSM 
scheme of things. Yes it's grass but that's not its use. Its use is 
commercial : the  space is rented commercially to exhibitors who sell 
goods to attendees who pay an entrance fee, with a semi-cultural event 
attached. 


The wiki describes commercial as:

"Use tag landuse=commercial to delineate areas of land used for 
commercial purposes. Commercial landuse mainly deals with services and 
trade (tertiary sector).


Such area may consist of offices, administration, laboratories, 
logistics, hotels, car repair stations, and associated infrastructure 
(car parks, service roads, lawns and so-on). Compared to industrial 
landuse (landuse=industrial) no goods are produced."


A showground doesn't fit that description. Sure, it's commercial in the 
sense that it generates revenue. But then, so does forestry and 
agricultural land. And the trade stand aspect of a county show is 
secondary to the primary use, even though, these days, it's the use 
which sustains the event financially.


I'm not sure about access rights during times when there is no 
event , but I suspect it's private, so an open space justification might 
not be appropriate.


Yes; that's why I'm less happy with park or recreation_ground; as these 
tend to imply public access. I don't think they're necessarily wrong, 
and a ground which gets a lot of year-round use as well as its main show 
could well qualify as a recreation_ground. I think that's probably true 
of the East of England Showground, for example.


Given that we don't have a dedicated landuse=showground tag, I think 
that grass or recreation_ground are normally the best alternatives, and 
maybe sometimes park. None of them are precisely right for that kind of 
usage, but they're less wrong than some of the other alternatives such 
as commercial.


Mark


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[Talk-tr] weeklyOSM #500 2020-02-11-2020-02-17

[weeklyteam]

OSM ile ilgili haberlerin haftalık derlemesi, sayı 500 Türkçe olarak çevrimiçi, 
ve her zamanki gibi OpenStreetMap dünyasında olan pek çok şeyin özetini size 
sunuyor:

https://www.weeklyosm.eu/tr/archives/12904/

İyi okumalar!

weeklyOSM'e sizin de içerik önerisi yapabileceğinizi biliyor muydunuz? Sadece 
https://osmbc.openstreetmap.de/login adresine OSM hesabınızla giriş yapmanız 
yeterli.

Makale eklemekle ilgili daha detaylı bilgi almak için burayı okuyun: 
http://www.weeklyosm.eu/this-news-should-be-in-weeklyosm 

weeklyOSM?
kim: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
nerede: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 10:10 Uhr schrieb canfe :

> Ritengo che in Italia siamo roman_catholic.
> Se non lo siamo noi, chi altro lo sarebbe?!
> Il resto dell'Italia, con esclusione forse di qualche enclave
> albanese, è di rito Romano.
>



A Roma si trovano chiese di tutti i tipi, anche chiese dove le funzioni non
sono in Italiano. Mi rendo conto che qui la situazione è eccezionale e nel
resto del paese probabilmente non è così (anche se potrei immaginare
singole chiese cattoliche non roman_catholic in altre grandi città).

Ciao
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 24. Feb. 2020 um 10:42 Uhr schrieb Simone Saviolo <
simone.savi...@gmail.com>:

> In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti: romano,
> ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati a piccole
> comunità.
>


infatti, ci sono altre "denomination" cattoliche (per esempio
russian_orthodox / orthodox, greek_othodox, armenian_catholic,...):
https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/denomination#values
Quello che intendevo dire: le altre saranno specificate, mentre solo
"catholic" nel 99,9% dei casi sarà roman_catholic. Per essere sicuri, e per
non modificare un "catholic" (giusto) in qualcosa di più specifico (ma
forse sbagliato per 0,1%) non farei una modifica automatica. Invece invito
tutti ad utilizzare "roman_catholic" quando si tratta di una "chiesa
normale" (sempre per statistica e non per valutazione, ovviamente).


>
> Io da tempo sono passato ad usare denomination=roman_catholic, ma non sono
> per niente convinto che questo tag riguardi il rito: per me, "roman
> catholic" vuol solo dire che la chiesa fa parte di una diocesi che prende
> come riferimento il papa. Mi chiedo se il rito non vada piuttosto indicato
> sulla diocesi, e non sulla singola chiesa...
>


sulla questione se il rito è coperto da "denomination" non mi vorrei
esprimere al momento, ma sulla questione di indicarlo soltanto sulla
diocesi direi di no: non abbiamo i diocesi, mentre la singola chiesa è
probabilmente già mappata, quindi sarei a favore di essere esplicito lì.

Ciao
Martin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Ken Kilfedder]

The one in Builth Wells has various component parts marked as sportsgrounds, 
but the general area is marked as "amenity=festival grounds". The wiki says 
that festival grounds are "A permanent open field facility which is mostly used 
for public events and festivals." and gives the example of some song festival 
spaces in the Baltics.

 * 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=festival%20grounds?uselang=en-GB
 * https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/93280648#map=16/52.1574/-3.4031

---
https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk


On Mon, 24 Feb 2020, at 11:33 AM, Philip Barnes wrote:
> The West Midlands showgroung is tagged as amenity=showground.
> 
> Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> On Monday, 24 February 2020, SK53 wrote:
> > I asked similar questions about 6 months ago:
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-September/023452.html
> > ,
> > and there are other discussions going back some 10 years:
> > http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=5167127=showground=5167127
> > 
> > Jerry
> > 
> > On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge  wrote:
> > 
> > > Morning all,
> > >
> > > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties
> > > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather
> > > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be
> > > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass.
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235
> > >
> > > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would
> > > be worth throwing out here as well.
> > >
> > > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally
> > > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki
> > > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is
> > > on and when one isn't.
> > >
> > > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because,
> > > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of
> > > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a
> > > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.
> > >
> > > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to
> > > have any consistency.
> > >
> > > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170
> > >
> > > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277
> > >
> > > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643
> > >
> > > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but
> > > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a
> > > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220
> > >
> > > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a
> > > network of roads and individual features:
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065
> > >
> > > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793
> > >
> > > And the Bath and West Showground:
> > >
> > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265
> > >
> > > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to
> > > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries
> > > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what
> > > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for
> > > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either
> > > grass, recreation_ground or even park.
> > >
> > > Thoughts, anyone?
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Talk-GB mailing list
> > > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> > >
> >
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Mark Goodge]

On 24/02/2020 11:44, Andy Townsend wrote:

I suspect that it'll depend on the showground.  For Stoneleigh (which 
used to host the Royal Show), I'd have said commercial was correct.  For 
Ashover https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/231760526 (much smaller!) you 
could perhaps make a case for recreation_ground or farmland, although 
for 1 day a year it's used for Ashover show and it is currently mapped 
as the little-used "amenity=show_grounds" (which doesn't seem wrong, 
either).


That does make sense, particularly where the ground has other uses at 
other times.


I've no idea what the best tag for the Three Counties Showground would 
be - perhaps that would depend on "what it is most of the year"?


Most of the year it's just grass. It has no use other than the events 
which are held there, and those only take up a few days a year.


That's why I'm not entirely comfortable with recreation_ground, as that 
implies that it has a year-round use as such.


Mark

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Joseph Eisenberg]

> it *is* worth discussing if (or why) the "name" tag on a body
of water bordered by a number of countries neither of which has English
as an official language, should contain the English name.

I agree. Unfortunately the message has been confused by the poor presentation.

It is quite reasonable to question the use of English in the `name=`
tag for the Baltic Sea.

It would be reasonable to stop using the name= tag for oceans,
continents and international seas, if we can develop a tag which would
specify which of the `name:=` tags should be treated as
the primary ones. This would make it more feasible to design a
rendering for the Baltic Sea, the Mediterranean, and other seas
surrounding by a large number of language areas.

For the oceans and continents there may not be much use in a name tag,
since these labels only make sense on a global map. A map designer or
user can pick the language in that case.

- Joseph Eisenberg

On 2/24/20, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:44, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
>>
>> We're not there yet though; we're kind of shouting down Tomek because
>> he's aggressively questioning the status quo, but we haven yet managed
>> to come up with a rule that would fortify the status quo.
>
>
>
> there has been mention of utility. From statistical research it would seem
> that English is the language which has most people able to understand it
> (shortly before Chinese, but with significantly more usage as a second
> language). From a practical point of view, there are good arguments to fall
> back to English. This could change in the future, but it would be a long
> way.
> Despite the global statistics, it could well be that regionally, other
> languages would be more useful or “natural” than English, even if that
> language isn’t the mother tongue of the majority of residents in the
> neighboring countries (e.g. Spanish, Arabic, Portuguese, Mandarin, Russian
> ...)
>
> Cheers Martin
>
>
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[mbranco2]

Migliorare la mappatura di quelle zone è comunque di utilità generale, male
non fa..

Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 12:08 Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:57, Cascafico Giovanni 
> wrote:
> >
> > Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni possano essere al momento
> > utili per qs emergenza
>
>
> infatti, da fuori lo vedo impossibile in mancanza di informazioni attuali
> di aiutare con la mappatura. Un scopo potrebbe essere di migliorare la
> mappa “generica” (edifici) in vista di un’attenzione mediatica cresciuta,
> per dare supporto ai giornalisti, ma temo, purtroppo, che per gli abitanti
> di questi posti non sarà di grande aiuto concreto...
>
> Ciao Martin
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Andy Townsend]

On 24/02/2020 09:57, Mark Goodge wrote:

Morning all,

Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties 
showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass 
rather than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really 
ought to be landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of 
surface=grass.


I suspect that it'll depend on the showground.  For Stoneleigh (which 
used to host the Royal Show), I'd have said commercial was correct.  For 
Ashover https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/231760526 (much smaller!) you 
could perhaps make a case for recreation_ground or farmland, although 
for 1 day a year it's used for Ashover show and it is currently mapped 
as the little-used "amenity=show_grounds" (which doesn't seem wrong, 
either).


I've no idea what the best tag for the Three Counties Showground would 
be - perhaps that would depend on "what it is most of the year"?


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Brian Prangle]

This is a case where landcover and landuse get confused in the OSM scheme
of things. Yes it's grass but that's not its use. Its use is commercial :
the  space is rented commercially to exhibitors who sell goods to attendees
who pay an entrance fee, with a semi-cultural event attached. I'm not sure
about access rights during times when there is no event , but I suspect
it's private, so an open space justification might not be appropriate.

Regards

Brian

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge  wrote:

> Morning all,
>
> Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties
> showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather
> than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be
> landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235
>
> I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would
> be worth throwing out here as well.
>
> I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally
> incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki
> and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is
> on and when one isn't.
>
> The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because,
> most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of
> grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a
> minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.
>
> Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to
> have any consistency.
>
> The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170
>
> The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277
>
> So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643
>
> The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but
> in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a
> showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220
>
> The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a
> network of roads and individual features:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065
>
> Similarly with the Norfolk Showground
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793
>
> And the Bath and West Showground:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265
>
> So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to
> be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries
> and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what
> the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for
> the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either
> grass, recreation_ground or even park.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Mark
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Philip Barnes]

The West Midlands showgroung is tagged as amenity=showground.

Phil (trigpoint)

On Monday, 24 February 2020, SK53 wrote:
> I asked similar questions about 6 months ago:
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-September/023452.html
> ,
> and there are other discussions going back some 10 years:
> http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=5167127=showground=5167127
> 
> Jerry
> 
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge  wrote:
> 
> > Morning all,
> >
> > Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties
> > showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather
> > than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be
> > landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass.
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235
> >
> > I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would
> > be worth throwing out here as well.
> >
> > I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally
> > incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki
> > and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is
> > on and when one isn't.
> >
> > The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because,
> > most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of
> > grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a
> > minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.
> >
> > Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to
> > have any consistency.
> >
> > The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170
> >
> > The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277
> >
> > So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643
> >
> > The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but
> > in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a
> > showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220
> >
> > The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a
> > network of roads and individual features:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065
> >
> > Similarly with the Norfolk Showground
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793
> >
> > And the Bath and West Showground:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265
> >
> > So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to
> > be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries
> > and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what
> > the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for
> > the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either
> > grass, recreation_ground or even park.
> >
> > Thoughts, anyone?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-GB mailing list
> > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >
>

-- 
Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:44, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> We're not there yet though; we're kind of shouting down Tomek because
> he's aggressively questioning the status quo, but we haven yet managed
> to come up with a rule that would fortify the status quo.



there has been mention of utility. From statistical research it would seem that 
English is the language which has most people able to understand it (shortly 
before Chinese, but with significantly more usage as a second language). From a 
practical point of view, there are good arguments to fall back to English. This 
could change in the future, but it would be a long way.
Despite the global statistics, it could well be that regionally, other 
languages would be more useful or “natural” than English, even if that language 
isn’t the mother tongue of the majority of residents in the neighboring 
countries (e.g. Spanish, Arabic, Portuguese, Mandarin, Russian ...) 

Cheers Martin 


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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 24. Feb 2020, at 11:57, Cascafico Giovanni  wrote:
> 
> Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni possano essere al momento
> utili per qs emergenza


infatti, da fuori lo vedo impossibile in mancanza di informazioni attuali di 
aiutare con la mappatura. Un scopo potrebbe essere di migliorare la mappa 
“generica” (edifici) in vista di un’attenzione mediatica cresciuta, per dare 
supporto ai giornalisti, ma temo, purtroppo, che per gli abitanti di questi 
posti non sarà di grande aiuto concreto...

Ciao Martin 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[SK53]

I asked similar questions about 6 months ago:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-September/023452.html
,
and there are other discussions going back some 10 years:
http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=5167127=showground=5167127

Jerry

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 09:58, Mark Goodge  wrote:

> Morning all,
>
> Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties
> showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather
> than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be
> landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235
>
> I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would
> be worth throwing out here as well.
>
> I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally
> incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki
> and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is
> on and when one isn't.
>
> The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because,
> most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of
> grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a
> minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.
>
> Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to
> have any consistency.
>
> The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170
>
> The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277
>
> So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643
>
> The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but
> in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a
> showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220
>
> The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a
> network of roads and individual features:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065
>
> Similarly with the Norfolk Showground
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793
>
> And the Bath and West Showground:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265
>
> So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to
> be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries
> and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what
> the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for
> the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either
> grass, recreation_ground or even park.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Mark
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Cascafico Giovanni]

La situazione OSM numeri civici di Codogno [0] è male, però c'è il
dataset [1] della Provincia di Lodi che sembra OK . Poi ci sono
dataset farmacie e POI correlati sul portale sanità [2].
Personalmente non saprei quali integrazioni possano essere al momento
utili per qs emergenza: mi pare ci siano anche troppa informazione in
giro.


[0] http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/R0E
[1] 
https://www.dati.lombardia.it/Territorio/Provincia-Lodi-06-Numeri-Civici-Georeferenziati/8vuy-6e5d
[2] http://www.dati.salute.gov.it/dati/homeDataset.jsp

Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 09:14 Lorenzo Rolla
 ha scritto:
>
> Gentilissimi, senza voler fare allarmismo, riteniamo opportuno procedere a 
> una mappatura più completa di questi comuni per fornire informazioni accurate 
> a questi concittadini?
> https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/atto/serie_generale/caricaDettaglioAtto/originario?atto.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=2020-02-23=20A01228=false
>
> Comuni interessati  dalle  misure  urgenti  di  contenimento  del
> contagio.
> Nella Regione Lombardia:
>   a) Bertonico;
>   b) Casalpusterlengo;
>   c) Castelgerundo;
>   d) Castiglione D'Adda;
>   e) Codogno;
>   f) Fombio;
>   g) Maleo;
>   h) San Fiorano;
>   i) Somaglia;
>   j) Terranova dei Passerini.
> Nella Regione Veneto:
>   a) Vo'.
>
>
> --
> Lorenzo Rolla
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 23.02.20 23:38, Alan Mackie wrote:
> This conversation is petty, repetitive and tedious in the extreme

It is tediuos but not without merit.

Yes the project was founded by white Englishmen but in other departments
we're trying to extend our reach and make sure that we are also
interesting for non-white non-English non-men. It is not, in principle,
wrong to question some of our existing assumptions, values, or decisions.

I think that while in this particular case the question was asked by
someone on a mission to propagate an aspirational "international
language", it *is* worth discussing if (or why) the "name" tag on a body
of water bordered by a number of countries neither of which has English
as an official language, should contain the English name.

We're currently using English in such situations "by default"; none of
our existing written policies can explain why we do that.

If the result of this discussion is an agreement in the community that
using the English name in the "name" tag whenever a feature is bordered
by two or more countries using different languages (or whatever) is "the
rigth thing to do in OSM", then the discussion will have been valuable.

We're not there yet though; we're kind of shouting down Tomek because
he's aggressively questioning the status quo, but we haven yet managed
to come up with a rule that would fortify the status quo.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] nomoj de internaciaj objektoj / nazwy obiektów międzynarodowych / names of international objects

[Maarten Deen]

On 2020-02-23 23:38, Alan Mackie wrote:

This conversation is petty, repetitive and tedious in the extreme, but
as that seems to be the order of the day:


I can not agree more with this message. I am not even trying to read the 
Polish and Esperanto mails. Yes, I am to lazy to put them in a 
translator because I think it is absolutely unnecessary. I am also not 
posting in Dutch because that will pose the same burden on others and I 
don't think that is the best action to do.
I'm sorry if you feel excluded because you can not or refuse read 
english or think you are being oppressed. I feel excluded in every 
project that is done in Chinese and Japanese. But if they feel that is 
the best language to communicate in, than it is not for me.


The OSM wiki has been translated to many many languages but the main 
page in Esperanto is short at best and many pages have no Esperanto 
translation. Maybe your efforts are better directed to creating some 
international (for you meaning: non-English) traction there.


Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Luigi Toscano]

Simone Saviolo ha scritto:
> In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti: romano,
> ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati a piccole 
> comunità. 
> 
> Io da tempo sono passato ad usare denomination=roman_catholic, ma non sono per
> niente convinto che questo tag riguardi il rito: per me, "roman catholic" vuol
> solo dire che la chiesa fa parte di una diocesi che prende come riferimento il
> papa. Mi chiedo se il rito non vada piuttosto indicato sulla diocesi, e non
> sulla singola chiesa...

È più complicato del previsto: ci sono sicuramente parrocchie di rito romano
nell'eparchia italo-albanese di Piana degli Albanesi.

Allo stesso modo, singole chiese in diocesi con vescovo di rito romano possono
essere state date a chiese cattoliche orientali.

In ogni caso credo non sia opportuno usare una modifica di massa. Se è facile
immaginare che le eccezioni sono state già mappate come tali, secondo me
l'informazione andrebbe verificata prima di cambiare in massa, e lasciare il
generico catholic non è un grosso problema, perché comunque la partecipazione
alla celebrazione è valida per chiunque sia tale, indipendentemente dallo
specifico rito.

-- 
Luigi

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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Elena ``of Valhalla'']

On 2020-02-24 at 10:09:26 +0100, canfe wrote:
> Ritengo che in Italia siamo roman_catholic.
> Se non lo siamo noi, chi altro lo sarebbe?!
> Facendo dei distinguo si potrebbe citare il rito ambrosiano.
> In effetti in Lombardia sono Cristiani Cattolici di rito Ambrosiano.
> Il resto dell'Italia, con esclusione forse di qualche enclave albanese, è di 
> rito Romano.

Ci sono anche, ad esempio, i veterocattolici:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_Vetero-Cattolica_dell%27Unione_di_Utrecht_in_Italia

che, contrariamente al rito ambrosiano, non riconoscono il primato
papale, e quindi sicuramente non sono roman_catholic.

Credo che abbiano al massimo qualche decina di chiese in tutte italia,
ma sufficienti perché un edit automatico possa introdurre errori.

(credo che invece le chiese di rito ambrosiano contino come
roman_catholic, visto che cambia qualche dettaglio formale, ma non la
dottrina).

-- 
Elena ``of Valhalla''

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[Talk-GB] Tagging showgrounds

[Mark Goodge]

Morning all,

Someone has commented on a change I made to the Three Counties 
showground last year when I changed the tagging to landuse=grass rather 
than landuse=commercial. Their suggestion is that it really ought to be 
landuse=recreation_ground, with a secondary tag of surface=grass.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/74103491#map=16/52.0834/-2.3235

I've responded to that comment on the changeset, but I thought it would 
be worth throwing out here as well.


I do think that tagging showgrounds as landuse=commercial is generally 
incorrect; it doesn't match the description of 'commercial' in the wiki 
and doesn't reflect the typical uses of showgrounds both when a show is 
on and when one isn't.


The reason I tagged the Three Counties showground as grass is because, 
most of the year, that's precisely what it is - an open area of 
grassland. Unless there is an event on (which only happens for a 
minority of days in a year) it is just an open space.


Looking at a few other showgrounds across the country, we don't seem to 
have any consistency.


The East of England Showground is tagged as landuse=recreation_ground:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.5456/-0.3170

The Suffolk Showground is tagged as a park:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.0330/1.2277

So is the Staffordshire County Showgound:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.8255/-2.0643

The former Royal Showground at Stoneleigh is tagged as commercial, but 
in that case that's probably now correct as it's no longer used as a 
showground and is gradually being redeveloped as a business park:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.3435/-1.5220

The Great Yorkshire Showground isn't tagged as an area at all, just a 
network of roads and individual features:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.9830/-1.5065

Similarly with the Norfolk Showground

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/52.6490/1.1793

And the Bath and West Showground:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.1552/-2.5265

So, what do people think? Personally, I think that showgrounds ought to 
be tagged as an area, because they do, typically, have clear boundaries 
and are distinct from their surrounding context. But I'm less sure what 
the area should be tagged as. I think commercial is usually wrong, for 
the reasons I've already given, but I can see an argument for either 
grass, recreation_ground or even park.


Thoughts, anyone?

Mark


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Re: [Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[Simone Saviolo]

In Italia le Chiese cattoliche operano principalmente su tre riti: romano,
ambrosiano e orientale. In più ci sono altri riti limitati a piccole
comunità.

Io da tempo sono passato ad usare denomination=roman_catholic, ma non sono
per niente convinto che questo tag riguardi il rito: per me, "roman
catholic" vuol solo dire che la chiesa fa parte di una diocesi che prende
come riferimento il papa. Mi chiedo se il rito non vada piuttosto indicato
sulla diocesi, e non sulla singola chiesa...

Ciao,

Simone
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Max1234Ita]

> Sono d'accordo, facciamolo
>
>  Concordo, ma coordiniamoci anche su cosa mappare (giusto per fare
qualcosa che abbia almeno un impatto, anche se piccolo): edifici?

Abbiamo ancora l'istanza Wikimedia del Tasking Manager?


Forse sarebbe utile anche prendere contatto con mappatori residenti nei
comuni in oggetto, così da capire meglio quali siano le priorità.


Altra cosa, abbastanza OT, in realtà. Sulla pagina di Tasking Manager, ho
notato che alcune attività risultano 100% svolte e 100% convalidate: non
dovrebbero venire rimosse dopo un certo tempo? oppure c'è una persona che si
occupa dell'aggiornamento della pagina?
Ignoranza mia, cmq :)

Max



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] zone de dépose d'hélicoptère saisonnière

[Florimond Berthoux]

J’ai cru cela, mais ça n’a pas vraiment de sens,
« that is preselected for a helicopter to land in an emergency situation »
"emergency situation" ne fait pas référence à la situation de
l’hélicoptère, mais à la situation en générale
et précision plus loin :
« Emergency landing sites are pre-planned sites for medical or other
helicopters to land, quite different from helipads. They are merely places
that have a hard enough surface and are open enough (no poles or wires)
that a medical or police helicopter pilot can safely land and take off
from. »



Le lun. 24 févr. 2020 à 09:55, Jean-Claude Repetto  a
écrit :

> Le 23/02/2020 à 20:26, Florimond Berthoux a écrit :
> > Salut, visiblement :
> > emergency=landing_site
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dlanding_site
> >
>
> Non, çà c'est une zone pour l'atterrissage d'urgence en pas de problème
> dans l'avion ou l'hélico.
>
> Jean-Claude
>
>
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-- 
Florimond Berthoux
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[Talk-it] R: key denomination=roman_catholic

[canfe]

Ritengo che in Italia siamo roman_catholic.
Se non lo siamo noi, chi altro lo sarebbe?!
Facendo dei distinguo si potrebbe citare il rito ambrosiano.
In effetti in Lombardia sono Cristiani Cattolici di rito Ambrosiano.
Il resto dell'Italia, con esclusione forse di qualche enclave albanese, è di 
rito Romano.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rito_ambrosiano 

Cantone Ferruccio (canfe)

-Messaggio originale-
Da: Marcello [mailto:arca...@gmail.com] 
Inviato: domenica 23 febbraio 2020 16:33
A: Talk-It
Oggetto: [Talk-it] key denomination=roman_catholic

Salve,

mi sono imbattuto in una chiesa inserita da un utente americano con il 
tag religion=roman_catholic, corretto qualche giorno dopo in 
religion=christian + denomination=roman_catholic da un utente tedesco 
che fa quality assurance in tutto il mondo 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Claudius%20Henrichs).

Dato che dalla pagina wiki sembra che il roman_catholic sia usato nei 
paesi di lingua tedesca per distinzione dalle chiese protestanti uso per 
le chiese cattoliche italiane denomination=catholic, sono quindi andato 
a vedere la pagina wiki inglese e c'� una bella differenza, ci sono 11 
differenti denominazioni cattoliche distinte in base ai riti (oltretutto 
l'avvertenza iniziale della pagina riporta che la� lista non � 
esaustiva) ed � consigliato di usare il valore appropriato per il tag 
denomination, piuttosto che il generico "catholic".

A questo punto � meglio per l'Italia inserire 
denomination=roman_catholic, giusto?
Se c'� accordo sulla preferenza di questo valore invece del generico 
"catholic", dato che i riti variano su base geografica si potrebbe 
mettere in piedi un task di edit semiautomatico o automatico dei valori 
gi� presenti? Attualmente in Italia abbiamo 47165� denomination=catholic 
e 5815 denomination=roman_catholic, ma hanno sicuramente lo stesso rito, 
credo che uniformare il tagging eviterebbe dei dubbi a chi vorrebbe 
scegliere una chiesa per seguire un rito religioso.

-- 
Ciao
Marcello


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Sommets

[Arnaud Champollion]

Le 24/02/2020 à 09:52, Jean-Claude Repetto a écrit :
Attention, tourism=viewpoint indique seulement qu'il y a un beau 
panorama.


Une table d'orientation, c'est:
  tourism=information
  information=map
  map_type=toposcope 


Ah en effet, merci, je vais repasser sur quelques contribs que j'ai 
faites ces derniers temps du coup.


En général, les tables d'orientation sont situées à un beau point de 
vue, donc on fait une table et un point de vue côte à côte ?



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] zone de dépose d'hélicoptère saisonnière

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Le 23/02/2020 à 20:26, Florimond Berthoux a écrit :

Salut, visiblement :
emergency=landing_site

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:emergency%3Dlanding_site



Non, çà c'est une zone pour l'atterrissage d'urgence en pas de problème 
dans l'avion ou l'hélico.


Jean-Claude


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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Paolo F]

http://osmit-tm3.wmflabs.org


On 24/02/20 09:50, Marco Minghini wrote:
>
> Sono d'accordo, facciamolo
>
>  Concordo, ma coordiniamoci anche su cosa mappare (giusto per fare
> qualcosa che abbia almeno un impatto, anche se piccolo): edifici?
>
> Abbiamo ancora l'istanza Wikimedia del Tasking Manager?
>
>
> ___
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-- 

*Paolo Frizzera*

OSM Consultant, //

*Service for Geospatial, Information and Telecommunications Technologies*

United Nations Global Service Centre

United Nations Department of Operational Support


Brindisi | Phone: +390831 | Mobile: +39 | Intermission:158  

E-mail:paolo.frizzera
_...@un.org
_


 


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Sommets

[Jean-Claude Repetto]

Bonjour,

Le 24/02/2020 à 09:31, Arnaud Champollion a écrit :


Pour un sommet en montagne, c'est natural=peak.

Parfois, ces sommets hébergent aussi un point géodésique 
man_made=survey_point


D'après vous est-ce qu'il vaut mieux faire deux points, comme ici : 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/44.14479/6.18944


Le point géodésique n'est pas toujours placé exactement au sommet. En 
général, je préfère donc faire deux points séparés.


Également, le sommet peut être équipé d'une table d'orientation. Quand 
le wiki dit "combinaison utile :


Attention, tourism=viewpoint indique seulement qu'il y a un beau panorama.

Une table d'orientation, c'est:
  tourism=information
  information=map
  map_type=toposcope

Jean-Claude


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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Marco Minghini]

> Sono d'accordo, facciamolo
>
>  Concordo, ma coordiniamoci anche su cosa mappare (giusto per fare
qualcosa che abbia almeno un impatto, anche se piccolo): edifici?

Abbiamo ancora l'istanza Wikimedia del Tasking Manager?
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Re: [Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[mbranco2]

Sono d'accordo, facciamolo

Il giorno lun 24 feb 2020 alle ore 09:14 Lorenzo Rolla 
ha scritto:

> Gentilissimi, senza voler fare allarmismo, riteniamo opportuno procedere a
> una mappatura più completa di questi comuni per fornire informazioni
> accurate a questi concittadini?
>
> https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/atto/serie_generale/caricaDettaglioAtto/originario?atto.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=2020-02-23=20A01228=false
>
> Comuni interessati  dalle  misure  urgenti  di  contenimento  del
> contagio.
> Nella Regione Lombardia:
>   a) Bertonico;
>   b) Casalpusterlengo;
>   c) Castelgerundo;
>   d) Castiglione D'Adda;
>   e) Codogno;
>   f) Fombio;
>   g) Maleo;
>   h) San Fiorano;
>   i) Somaglia;
>   j) Terranova dei Passerini.
> Nella Regione Veneto:
>   a) Vo'.
>
>
> --
> Lorenzo Rolla
>
> ___
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[OSM-talk-fr] Sommets

[Arnaud Champollion]

Bonjour,


Pour un sommet en montagne, c'est natural=peak.

Parfois, ces sommets hébergent aussi un point géodésique 
man_made=survey_point


D'après vous est-ce qu'il vaut mieux faire deux points, comme ici : 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/44.14479/6.18944


ou mettre les deux attributs sur le même ?


Également, le sommet peut être équipé d'une table d'orientation. Quand 
le wiki dit "combinaison utile :


 * tourism
   =viewpoint
   

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:natural%3Dpeak

c'est pour le mettre comme attribut sur le même point, ou un point à part ?

Merci


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[Talk-it] emergenza coronavirus

[Lorenzo Rolla]

Gentilissimi, senza voler fare allarmismo, riteniamo opportuno procedere a
una mappatura più completa di questi comuni per fornire informazioni
accurate a questi concittadini?
https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/atto/serie_generale/caricaDettaglioAtto/originario?atto.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=2020-02-23=20A01228=false

Comuni interessati  dalle  misure  urgenti  di  contenimento  del
contagio.
Nella Regione Lombardia:
  a) Bertonico;
  b) Casalpusterlengo;
  c) Castelgerundo;
  d) Castiglione D'Adda;
  e) Codogno;
  f) Fombio;
  g) Maleo;
  h) San Fiorano;
  i) Somaglia;
  j) Terranova dei Passerini.
Nella Regione Veneto:
  a) Vo'.


-- 
Lorenzo Rolla
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