Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Richard Fairhurst]

A friendly thought from across the pond; just something to provoke thoughts,
feel free to disregard.

OSM in the US is without doubt the #1 country at organising conferences. I
was privileged enough to go to Portland and SF and they were both superb
events. (This year's SOTM-EU in Karlsruhe was, of course, the other one
making up the top 3, and I couldn't choose between them.)

The US is probably also the #1 country at encouraging corporate use of OSM -
I don't need to bring up the examples, you know them better than me. And
there are lots of other accolades in your national palmarès.

The one area where I could unequivocally say the US isn't yet #1 is in the
quality of the map. #1 is clearly Germany (curse those crazy Teutons); but
Britain, France, and, quite seriously, Russia are not far behind. 

Your new board's responsibility is to make OSM grow, in every way, within
the US. That means continuing to be #1 at conferences and #1 at corporate
use, but it also means improving on the #5 ranking for map quality. You do
of course have Martijn, who has forgotten more than most of us ever knew
about OSM data in the States; Alex's great work in urban areas with Mapbox;
and no doubt many more I'm not aware of. Paul's analysis is just one data
point but I hope, for anyone who thinks understanding US data quality is an
issue, it could at least be a relevant one.

Elect a great board - I'm sure you will.

cheers
Richard





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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Paul Norman]

On 10/7/2014 10:51 AM, Charlotte Wolter wrote:

Also, all have editing experience with OSM, whether
in the United States or outside.
I would not consider someone who has not made a single edit in the last 
12 months to have editing experience in the context of a local chapter 
election. This is also what I'm hearing from those who have thanked me 
for the analysis, but of course everyone is free to vote on any criteria 
they choose.


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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Charlotte Wolter]

Everyone,

It seems to me that the candidates in question have 
excellent qualifications for the

OSM board.
All have experience in GIS, in the private or public sector, 
and some have management
experience, something OSM really needs. Also, all have editing 
experience with OSM, whether

in the United States or outside.
I think quibbling about the volume of edits misses the 
point. OSM needs strong organizational

leadership. No matter who one votes for, that should be the central issue.

Charlotte


At 09:21 PM 10/5/2014, you wrote:



I will make an assumption (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that both 
candidates with 0 edits
are female.  I am basing this only on names and a rudimentary 
internet search. I think
before both candidates answer that question - you need to define why 
they have a "complete
lack of OpenStreetMap experience," They have made edits. Were last 
year's edits not good?
Were the other edits from other candidates better? How many edits 
make an experienced
mapper? Non US edits are a bad thing when running for a OSM US 
Position? If they had

only made 59 edits this year.

Randy
On 10/05/2014 11:21 PM, Paul Norman wrote: >
On 10/5/2014 6:26 PM, Alan McConchie wrote:

>> All of the candidates have made more than zero edits
> While true that all candidates have edited OSM at some point in the
> past, two of them have zero edits in the last year, and one of those
> has no US edits ever.[1]

> > While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
> their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
> OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply
> those skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without
> being a board member.
> > [1]: > 
https://gist.github.com/pnorman/28351121d9bf12b3a219#file-01_results-txt > >


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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Reilly, Colin]

Hi all,

I probably don't have much new to offer this discussion other than perhaps a 
slightly different perspective. As with most everyone, my experience has helped 
form my opinions. My experience can probably be put in the geo dinosaur 
category. Though one who has tried to keep pace and is relatively new to OSM. I 
run a group of mappers for a large US city. What I can say on the topic is that 
my editing experience did not prepare me to lead the team I do and it certainly 
doesn't help me in my day to day work. Sure it helps scoping out data-related 
tasks and projects but I don't see those as primary to the boards role.

When I thought of the OSM US board election and how I would vote (having 
already done so), I thought first of the qualities and experience I would like 
to see in the candidates I would vote for. In no special order, they are:
- Leadership: what that means to me is the ability to inspire and influence 
people in this case a community of people all working towards a common goal.
- Listening: hearing what the community feels. Where things are working and 
where they don't. How to make things better.
- Action: acting on what is said and the needs that arise.
- Communication: synthesizing what is heard and broadcasting that info to the 
community.
- Organizing: conferences, mapping events, etc.

I don't necessarily see any of these qualities benefitting through experience 
with a large number of OSM edits. Yes, OSM would not exist without a dedicated 
community of mappers but I just don't see the need for it's leadership to come 
from these ranks. That is not to say some will not. Thankfully we are voting 
for five and not one.

In my opinion, there are other ways of establishing OSM street (way?) cred. OSM 
board members can just as easily come up through the community engagement and 
organization ranks where they are inspiring and adding to the community of OSM 
mappers. That is of course the first bullet in the OSM US vision statement that 
I came across at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/Local_Chapters/United_States/Mission_statement

Just my two inflation-devalued cents. Now back to work.

Colin
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Eleanor Tutt]

At this point, the "number of edits" conversation seems well covered, so
I'll keep this first part brief.  I think there are three important areas
of growth for OpenStreetMap US:

1) The OSM map itself (more completeness/coverage, whether through
individual edits or well-vetted bulk data imports)
2) The OSM US mapping community (more editors, more diversity, more
resources for beginners)
3) The OSM US organization (completing 501c3 status work, improving
bylaws/processes - such as staggered board terms)

Ideally, the elected board should have a mix of expertise in order to be
able to address each of those areas of growth.

In my statement (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/eleanortutt/diary/23934),
I focused on my desire to focus on introducing neighborhood leaders (as a
relatively untapped source of enthusiasm and local knowledge) to
OpenStreetMap as well as continuing the strong work the current board has
done in supporting editathons/mapathons.

Based on this conversation, I have some additional expertise I would like
you to consider when voting that I did not cover in my statement:

* I have experience providing technical assistance to small 501c3s on best
practices for organizational bylaws and management systems

* I have been on the core organizing team for three major events in 2014
(the meeting of the National Neighborhood Indicators Partnership, the Build
for STL hackathon and OpenStreetMap editathon, and a local conference with
the theme "Data and the Arts for Social Change")

* In addition to the large-scale events above, I've organized multiple OSM
editathons/workshops in St. Louis in 2014, and I am leading the new St.
Louis Maptime chapter

* I have advocated for open source GIS tools, open data, and OSM
continuously during my 7+ years of working as a data analyst in the
community development field, and I have learned a lot about what works and
what doesn't in terms of encouraging new editors and where the pain points
are for new editors as they move from their first edit to actually becoming
regular contributors

* Like Alyssa, I am currently submitting a proposal to host the next SOTM
US with other St. Louis OSM contributors

Many thanks,
Eleanor



On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 1:07 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>
>> While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
>> their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
>> OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those
>> skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a
>> board member.
>
>
> Paul,
> I would hope we are selecting candidates with the skills needed to serve
> on the US Chapter's Board. It seems the two biggest functions are finance
> and the running of the SOTM-US conference. We are not selecting
> editor-in-chief. My experience in selecting board members for non profits
> is to find the best individual to fill the needs of the organization. These
> usually include the ability to raise monies, organize, communicate and
> plan. Additionally, in some positions, leadership skills are necessary.
>
> We all know great mappers, but not many would do well on the Board. On the
> other hand, we know of people that have no mapping experience but would do
> great on our board.
>
> Let elect individuals that can help us grow OSM. Ask yourself which of the
> candidates will best serve the needs of the community? If you do, I think
> you'll see that the number of edits has little to do with serving on the
> Board.
>
> Clifford
>
> --
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> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[alyssa wright]

i'm ready to co-chair that movement. ;)

thanks all! this has been a very informative thread.

alyssa.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Richard Welty 
wrote:

>  On 10/6/14 10:04 AM, David Fawcett wrote:
>
>  To respectfully turn your statement around.  I would like to hear from
> all candidates what skills and resources that they would bring to the
> board.  By being an active mapper, a candidate has demonstrated that they
> know the project, and that they are putting resources into it to improve
> the map.  But, what will they bring to the board that they couldn't just as
> easily bring to the project as a volunteer?
>
>  ok. mapper since 2009.
> served as a founding board member for OSM US.
> as a board member served as Secretary and later President before stepping
> down 2 years ago.
>
> i think i bring an understanding of how OSM US works and what the
> important things are on the board agenda, and i intend to apply
> energy towards helping move those things forward. for what i think
> are the important things, see my earlier post on one of the election
> threads.
>
> i also plan to start a movement to elect Martijn president for life.
>
> richard
>
> -- rwe...@averillpark.net
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>  OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
>  Java - Web Applications - Search
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Richard Welty]

On 10/6/14 10:04 AM, David Fawcett wrote:
To respectfully turn your statement around.  I would like to hear from 
all candidates what skills and resources that they would bring to the 
board.  By being an active mapper, a candidate has demonstrated that 
they know the project, and that they are putting resources into it to 
improve the map. But, what will they bring to the board that they 
couldn't just as easily bring to the project as a volunteer?



ok. mapper since 2009.
served as a founding board member for OSM US.
as a board member served as Secretary and later President before 
stepping down 2 years ago.


i think i bring an understanding of how OSM US works and what the
important things are on the board agenda, and i intend to apply
energy towards helping move those things forward. for what i think
are the important things, see my earlier post on one of the election
threads.

i also plan to start a movement to elect Martijn president for life.

richard

--
rwe...@averillpark.net
 Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
 OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
 Java - Web Applications - Search

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Martijn van Exel]

David - sure, I would be happy to. I'm just going to cherry pick, I don't
really keep an OSM resumé.

* Founded and sustained local OpenStreetMap groups in Amsterdam and Salt
Lake City for 7+ years, organizing dozens of mapping and social events over
the years - sorry, I haven't kept track of numbers.
* Core team member of SOTM 2009 organizing committee, and SOTM US 2011-2014
organizing committees, SOTM US 2012-2014 program committees
* Secured funding for OpenStreetMap Netherlands that helped grow the early
community by purchase of GPS devices, sponsoring events.
* Organized and secured funding for code sprint days in London and Essen,
Germany
* Gave dozens of talks, workshops and lectures about OpenStreetMap at GIS
and telematics conferences and universities. Many by invitation.
* Built stuff like Battlegrid, MapRoulette - tools that help mappers find
useful things to do. This is not necessarily a skill that comes in handy
for board work, but hopefully demonstrates that I can and will also execute
on projects that combine stimulating community as well as long term map
quality improvement.
* Close ties to academia, currently representing OSM in the GEOTHINK
consortium (http://geothink.ca/). Taught GIS (including some OSM) at
academic level.
* I spend a lot of time (at least 6h/week) on OSM IRC channels and mailing
lists to make sure I know what's going on in the community (also outside
the US).

Also, my entire professional career has been focused 100% on GIS, maps,
open data, and since 2012 OSM.

Martijn


On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:24 AM, David Fawcett 
wrote:

> Excellent description of your experience, education, passion, and
> commitment Alyssa.
>
> Again, I think that the work that Alyssa has done shows that she has
> skills, experience, and a network that would be very valuable to the board,
> and fit what is needed to move OSM US forward.  I have seen of Alyssa's
> work in the open source geospatial area.  It is excellent, and her passion
> is obvious.
>
> The boards of companies that make products are not made up entirely of
> people who intimately understand the manufacturing processes for those
> products.  They include people who bring organizational, fiscal, legal,
> marketing, and other skills necessary to run the organization.
>
> An OSM US board member should know OSM, they should value and believe in
> it, and they should have skills and experience that will move the
> organization forward.  Having an extended history of 'on the ground' edits
> is not the only way (or necessarily a way) to demonstrate that.
>
> David.
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:13 AM, alyssa wright 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear if there has been a problem in the past with
>> board members' editing portfolio? If so, perhaps an appointment of
>> "editor-at-large" is actually something the next board should consider?
>> Regardless, I do agree that editing is one of the core aspects of the
>> OpenStreetMap community and mission and its important such perspective is
>> represented on the board. But just as diversity of people and experiences
>> is at the heart of what makes OSM great, I would imagine a diversity of
>> expertise rests at the heart of a great OSM board.
>>
>> I also recognize that statistics can help put contributions to OSM in
>> perspective. Towards that goal, I've compiled some metrics that reflect my
>> commitment to the success of the OpenStreetMap community. I ask you to
>> consider these when voting for the next board.
>>
>> Over the past year I have done the following:
>>
>>- Hosted 26 events on open data and mapping with a total attendance
>>of 1575 people
>>- Started the MaptimeNYC chapter and currently sit on its advisory
>>board
>>- Advocated extensively to 3 federal agencies and 5 city ones (DoITT,
>>Capital, DOT, Criminal Justice, OEM) about OpenStreetMap.
>>- Attended at least 27 open mapping and data conferences across the
>>country, often with local state and government GIS departments
>>- Currently submitting a proposal to host the next SOTM US
>>
>> My *entire* professional career has been in advocation for the adoption
>> of open geospatial technologies and data, first at OpenGeo/Boundless and
>> most currently at Mapzen. My *entire* graduate education at NYU and MIT
>> centered on maps as a tool of empathy. I have a passion (and talent) for
>> bringing people together to find their own voice and contributions to
>> mapping and I will continue to bring such extensive experience to the OSM
>> community, regardless of role.
>>
>> Best,
>> Alyssa.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>>>
 While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
 their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
 OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those
 skills as a board member, rather 

Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[David Fawcett]

Excellent description of your experience, education, passion, and
commitment Alyssa.

Again, I think that the work that Alyssa has done shows that she has
skills, experience, and a network that would be very valuable to the board,
and fit what is needed to move OSM US forward.  I have seen of Alyssa's
work in the open source geospatial area.  It is excellent, and her passion
is obvious.

The boards of companies that make products are not made up entirely of
people who intimately understand the manufacturing processes for those
products.  They include people who bring organizational, fiscal, legal,
marketing, and other skills necessary to run the organization.

An OSM US board member should know OSM, they should value and believe in
it, and they should have skills and experience that will move the
organization forward.  Having an extended history of 'on the ground' edits
is not the only way (or necessarily a way) to demonstrate that.

David.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:13 AM, alyssa wright 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'd be interested to hear if there has been a problem in the past with
> board members' editing portfolio? If so, perhaps an appointment of
> "editor-at-large" is actually something the next board should consider?
> Regardless, I do agree that editing is one of the core aspects of the
> OpenStreetMap community and mission and its important such perspective is
> represented on the board. But just as diversity of people and experiences
> is at the heart of what makes OSM great, I would imagine a diversity of
> expertise rests at the heart of a great OSM board.
>
> I also recognize that statistics can help put contributions to OSM in
> perspective. Towards that goal, I've compiled some metrics that reflect my
> commitment to the success of the OpenStreetMap community. I ask you to
> consider these when voting for the next board.
>
> Over the past year I have done the following:
>
>- Hosted 26 events on open data and mapping with a total attendance of
>1575 people
>- Started the MaptimeNYC chapter and currently sit on its advisory
>board
>- Advocated extensively to 3 federal agencies and 5 city ones (DoITT,
>Capital, DOT, Criminal Justice, OEM) about OpenStreetMap.
>- Attended at least 27 open mapping and data conferences across the
>country, often with local state and government GIS departments
>- Currently submitting a proposal to host the next SOTM US
>
> My *entire* professional career has been in advocation for the adoption
> of open geospatial technologies and data, first at OpenGeo/Boundless and
> most currently at Mapzen. My *entire* graduate education at NYU and MIT
> centered on maps as a tool of empathy. I have a passion (and talent) for
> bringing people together to find their own voice and contributions to
> mapping and I will continue to bring such extensive experience to the OSM
> community, regardless of role.
>
> Best,
> Alyssa.
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>>
>>> While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
>>> their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
>>> OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those
>>> skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a
>>> board member.
>>
>>
>> Paul,
>> I would hope we are selecting candidates with the skills needed to serve
>> on the US Chapter's Board. It seems the two biggest functions are finance
>> and the running of the SOTM-US conference. We are not selecting
>> editor-in-chief. My experience in selecting board members for non profits
>> is to find the best individual to fill the needs of the organization. These
>> usually include the ability to raise monies, organize, communicate and
>> plan. Additionally, in some positions, leadership skills are necessary.
>>
>> We all know great mappers, but not many would do well on the Board. On
>> the other hand, we know of people that have no mapping experience but would
>> do great on our board.
>>
>> Let elect individuals that can help us grow OSM. Ask yourself which of
>> the candidates will best serve the needs of the community? If you do, I
>> think you'll see that the number of edits has little to do with serving on
>> the Board.
>>
>> Clifford
>>
>> --
>> @osm_seattle
>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[David Fawcett]

To respectfully turn your statement around.  I would like to hear from all
candidates what skills and resources that they would bring to the board.
By being an active mapper, a candidate has demonstrated that they know the
project, and that they are putting resources into it to improve the map.
But, what will they bring to the board that they couldn't just as easily
bring to the project as a volunteer?

David.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 10:21 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> On 10/5/2014 6:26 PM, Alan McConchie wrote:
>
>> All of the candidates have made more than zero edits
>>
> While true that all candidates have edited OSM at some point in the past,
> two of them have zero edits in the last year, and one of those has no US
> edits ever.[1]
>
> While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
> their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
> OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those
> skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a
> board member.
>
> [1]: https://gist.github.com/pnorman/28351121d9bf12b3a219#
> file-01_results-txt
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[David Fawcett]

Robin,

Thank you for running for the board, and for your very convincing statement
describing why you would like to be board member.  When I think about the
membership of the boards of many corporations and NGOs, I often see people
who do not have a lot of direct experience with that corp/org's main
product.  They are on the boards because they bring skills, resources, and
energy.

It is clear that while you may not have a lot of editing experience, you
know what OSM is, you know the data, you see value in it, and you have
already done work to bring new people to OSM.  To me, the success of OSM US
is far more dependent on having leadership that can market to, evangelize
to, educate, and engage new mappers and data users than knowing the
intricacies of relations for turn restrictions on reverse-flow, limited
hours bike lanes.

David.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Robin Tolochko 
wrote:

> I considered not running for the board because of the low number of edits
> that I've done, but ultimately decided that I have a lot to contribute to
> OSM in other ways. It is anyone's prerogative to not vote for someone while
> taking edits into account, but I want to explain why I decided to run
> despite my low number of edits.
>
> I recently moved back to the U.S. after living in Bogota, Colombia, for
> the last four years. While living there, I used OSM data regularly in my
> job as a cartographer at an NGO and ran OSM workshops for local university
> students. I just moved to Madison, Wisconsin, where I am starting up a
> Maptime  chapter and plan to do an introduction
> to OSM as our first session. I have been wanting to get more involved with
> OSM, and I realized that I could put my community outreach and organizing
> to use by running for the board.
>
> As I and many other nominees stated, it's important to get new people
> involved. But editing OSM can be quite intimidating to a new person, and I
> would make it a priority to improve the on-ramp. I also think that we
> should take advantage of existing learning networks, like universities, to
> spread awareness of OSM and recruit more contributors. I know that these
> are ambitious goals, and they may take more than a year, but those would be
> my priorities on the board.
>
> I don't think it would be wise for the OSM U.S. board to be comprised
> entirely of inexperienced mappers, but I think it could benefit from having
> someone on board who brings a fresh perspective and could even be
> considered an "outsider." The future success of OSM, after all, depends on
> bringing more outsiders into the fold. Also, I did not make the decision to
> run for board lightly. I recognize that it would be a serious time and
> energy commitment, but serving on the board would take advantage of my
> strengths to give back to an organization that I deeply believe in.
>
> I'm happy to talk with anyone, so please feel free to reach out to me via
> email or Twitter .
>
> Saludos,
> Robin
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[alyssa wright]

Hi all,

I'd be interested to hear if there has been a problem in the past with
board members' editing portfolio? If so, perhaps an appointment of
"editor-at-large" is actually something the next board should consider?
Regardless, I do agree that editing is one of the core aspects of the
OpenStreetMap community and mission and its important such perspective is
represented on the board. But just as diversity of people and experiences
is at the heart of what makes OSM great, I would imagine a diversity of
expertise rests at the heart of a great OSM board.

I also recognize that statistics can help put contributions to OSM in
perspective. Towards that goal, I've compiled some metrics that reflect my
commitment to the success of the OpenStreetMap community. I ask you to
consider these when voting for the next board.

Over the past year I have done the following:

   - Hosted 26 events on open data and mapping with a total attendance of
   1575 people
   - Started the MaptimeNYC chapter and currently sit on its advisory board
   - Advocated extensively to 3 federal agencies and 5 city ones (DoITT,
   Capital, DOT, Criminal Justice, OEM) about OpenStreetMap.
   - Attended at least 27 open mapping and data conferences across the
   country, often with local state and government GIS departments
   - Currently submitting a proposal to host the next SOTM US

My *entire* professional career has been in advocation for the adoption of
open geospatial technologies and data, first at OpenGeo/Boundless and most
currently at Mapzen. My *entire* graduate education at NYU and MIT centered
on maps as a tool of empathy. I have a passion (and talent) for bringing
people together to find their own voice and contributions to mapping and I
will continue to bring such extensive experience to the OSM community,
regardless of role.

Best,
Alyssa.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:
>
>> While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
>> their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
>> OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those
>> skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a
>> board member.
>
>
> Paul,
> I would hope we are selecting candidates with the skills needed to serve
> on the US Chapter's Board. It seems the two biggest functions are finance
> and the running of the SOTM-US conference. We are not selecting
> editor-in-chief. My experience in selecting board members for non profits
> is to find the best individual to fill the needs of the organization. These
> usually include the ability to raise monies, organize, communicate and
> plan. Additionally, in some positions, leadership skills are necessary.
>
> We all know great mappers, but not many would do well on the Board. On the
> other hand, we know of people that have no mapping experience but would do
> great on our board.
>
> Let elect individuals that can help us grow OSM. Ask yourself which of the
> candidates will best serve the needs of the community? If you do, I think
> you'll see that the number of edits has little to do with serving on the
> Board.
>
> Clifford
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Paul Norman  wrote:

> While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in
> their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of
> OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those
> skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a
> board member.


Paul,
I would hope we are selecting candidates with the skills needed to serve on
the US Chapter's Board. It seems the two biggest functions are finance and
the running of the SOTM-US conference. We are not selecting
editor-in-chief. My experience in selecting board members for non profits
is to find the best individual to fill the needs of the organization. These
usually include the ability to raise monies, organize, communicate and
plan. Additionally, in some positions, leadership skills are necessary.

We all know great mappers, but not many would do well on the Board. On the
other hand, we know of people that have no mapping experience but would do
great on our board.

Let elect individuals that can help us grow OSM. Ask yourself which of the
candidates will best serve the needs of the community? If you do, I think
you'll see that the number of edits has little to do with serving on the
Board.

Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Randal Hale]

I will make an assumption (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that both 
candidates with 0 edits are female.  I am basing this only on names and 
a rudimentary internet search.


I think before both candidates answer that question - you need to define 
why they have a "complete lack of OpenStreetMap experience". They have 
made edits. Were last years edits not good? Were the other edits from 
other candidates better? How many edits make an experienced mapper? Non 
US edits are a bad thing when running for a OSM US Position?


If they had only made 59 edits this year.

Randy

On 10/05/2014 11:21 PM, Paul Norman wrote:

On 10/5/2014 6:26 PM, Alan McConchie wrote:

All of the candidates have made more than zero edits
While true that all candidates have edited OSM at some point in the 
past, two of them have zero edits in the last year, and one of those 
has no US edits ever.[1]


While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in 
their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of 
OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply 
those skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without 
being a board member.


[1]: 
https://gist.github.com/pnorman/28351121d9bf12b3a219#file-01_results-txt


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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Paul Norman]

On 10/5/2014 6:26 PM, Alan McConchie wrote:

All of the candidates have made more than zero edits
While true that all candidates have edited OSM at some point in the 
past, two of them have zero edits in the last year, and one of those has 
no US edits ever.[1]


While a candidate may have other skills, I'd want to hear from them in 
their manifesto why those skills make up for their complete lack of 
OpenStreetMap experience, and why they would be more able to apply those 
skills as a board member, rather than volunteering them without being a 
board member.


[1]: 
https://gist.github.com/pnorman/28351121d9bf12b3a219#file-01_results-txt


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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Serge Wroclawski]

Alan,

The number of edits a user names is a data point. For some people,
it's an important data point, for others it may not be, but it's an
interesting piece of information.

By analogy, if this were a cyclist organization, I would hope that a
board member had experience as a cyclist. The number of edits a user
has made is only one factor, but it can illustrate quite a bit,
especially the type of edits a user has made, and the frequency of
their edits.

What's just as interesting, if not more interesting to me is how many
edits a person has made through on the ground surveying vs using other
datasets or imagery. That is hard to capture, but getting a user's #
of edits in the US, and their "core location" gives me some hints. If
I know someone lives in Orlando, FL and their edits are mainly focused
in Africa, I can make a reasonable assumption that unless they travel
to Africa frequently, that they're using imagery.

Why is that important? For me it speaks to someone's mapping modality,
and therefore their experience with the project. It speaks to their
involvement, their experience editing, etc.

What I've found really curious, and frustrating, is the amount of
negativity directed towards Paul for simply putting out data about the
candidates. To me, this is the same kind of information that we
celebrate when organizations like the Sunlight Foundation aggregate
and distribute. Others are free to disagree, certainly, but I found
the data to be helpful. It won't be my only factor in the decision
making process, but it will be a factor.

Now there are other questions for the candates I'd like to know, such
whether or not they're paid to work on OSM, and if so, by who. I'd
like to know from the incumbents what they've done in the past that's
notable or some other way by which we can judge their performance.

Maybe someone would like to ask these questions- I'm pretty turned off
my the negativity and largely disengaged from the process other than
my need to stand up when I see someone being unfairly attacked simply
for providing information.

- Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Alan McConchie]

Martin, whether or not your analogy about the catholic priests is a valid one, 
it does not apply. All of the candidates have made more than zero edits, so 
they all have non-theoretical knowledge of what editing entails. Would a parent 
of 20 children have better parenting advice than a parent of one?

Alan

On Oct 5, 2014, at 3:17 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>> Il giorno 03/ott/2014, alle ore 21:23, Randal Hale 
>>  ha scritto:
>> 
>> It has nothing to do with being on the OSM US Board. I was on it for two 
>> years..we discussed editing, Neither of which had any bearing on 
>> that candidates experience with editing.
> 
> 
> if you are discussing editing it will surely help in the discussion  to have 
> edited yourself ;-)
> 
> would you ask a catholic priest about raising kids? You'd surely get an 
> answer, but it will remain highly theoretical;-)
> 
> cheers 
> Martin 
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Randal Hale]

Of Course! The entire priest example could fix many problems...but that 
is a longer discussion over drinks.


The US is a huge place and OSM is still this "thing" people hear about 
and don't understand. I've taught two (by tomorrow) classes to GIS 
people on what OSM is and what it isn't. It's a slow process educating 
the populace this wonderful thing exists.


Editing is important to be part of the community - but the OSM US board 
operates both in and out or that community (if that makes sense). They 
announce editathons and attempt to engage support for OSM. As several 
have said (and I won't go back and look for the people to match with the 
quotes):


 * Engagement with the US Community. It would be wonderful if OSM US
   board members took the lead and held a mapping party in their
   community. It's not necessary - maybe they help pave the way for a
   more active mapper to hold an event.Colleges have a little clue this
   exists. Have a prepared presentation where someone can go explain
   OSM in a friendly non scary manner for the people who have never
   edited.
 * Women and Minorities. We are predominately Caucasian and male. That
   is not good. My only success in 300 kids taught at a High School is
   one young lady who periodically maps for HOT.
 * One candidate had mentioned getting a layer for the US to render our
   wonderfully complicated highway system. I still can't explain what a
   trunk road is...or isn't.
 * Holding the US conference - Months of paperwork with not a feature
   edited to get that going.
 * 501c3 status - I helped (I'm a terrible treasurer) and that was so
   complicated we had to bring in an accountant and that months of
   discovery on lost paypal accounts and things. I feel a personal
   sense of failure that still hasn't happened
 * There was an announcement from the board of scholarships to go to
   the South American OSM conference (?) - once again - no edits but
   paperwork type of things that push community engagement.

So there are tons of things that need done that never involve one single 
edit. It would help if they did - but being an anything on the board 
never involves touching the map.


I understand bringing up the editing history of candidates. It's another 
tool to measure engagement - but for this (IMO) it doesn't mean much at 
all. Hopefully by the time they leave the board they are editing and 
happy and doing good things. What is the current mapping engagement of 
the DWG?..or the OSMF? The HOT Board?  It doesn't matter for that position.


Our job is to map - there's will be the terrible things no one wants to 
do like paperwork and talk to people. Wear a suit. Look sane if they are 
ever speaking to an influential group of people on OSM.


Anyway - that was too long of an answer for a Sunday Morning. Forgive me.

Randy




On 10/05/2014 06:17 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:





Il giorno 03/ott/2014, alle ore 21:23, Randal Hale 
 ha scritto:

It has nothing to do with being on the OSM US Board. I was on it for two 
years..we discussed editing, Neither of which had any bearing on that 
candidates experience with editing.


if you are discussing editing it will surely help in the discussion  to have 
edited yourself ;-)

would you ask a catholic priest about raising kids? You'd surely get an answer, 
but it will remain highly theoretical;-)

cheers
Martin


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http://www.northrivergeographic.com/spatial-connect

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Il giorno 03/ott/2014, alle ore 21:23, Randal Hale 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> It has nothing to do with being on the OSM US Board. I was on it for two 
> years..we discussed editing, Neither of which had any bearing on that 
> candidates experience with editing.


if you are discussing editing it will surely help in the discussion  to have 
edited yourself ;-)

would you ask a catholic priest about raising kids? You'd surely get an answer, 
but it will remain highly theoretical;-)

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Steven Johnson]

+1 Hear, hear! Thank you, Robin for an eloquent response. 

--SEJ

Sent from my electronic tether. 

> On Oct 4, 2014, at 12:42, Robin Tolochko  wrote:
> 
> I considered not running for the board because of the low number of edits 
> that I've done, but ultimately decided that I have a lot to contribute to OSM 
> in other ways. It is anyone's prerogative to not vote for someone while 
> taking edits into account, but I want to explain why I decided to run despite 
> my low number of edits.
> 
> I recently moved back to the U.S. after living in Bogota, Colombia, for the 
> last four years. While living there, I used OSM data regularly in my job as a 
> cartographer at an NGO and ran OSM workshops for local university students. I 
> just moved to Madison, Wisconsin, where I am starting up a Maptime chapter 
> and plan to do an introduction to OSM as our first session. I have been 
> wanting to get more involved with OSM, and I realized that I could put my 
> community outreach and organizing to use by running for the board.
> 
> As I and many other nominees stated, it's important to get new people 
> involved. But editing OSM can be quite intimidating to a new person, and I 
> would make it a priority to improve the on-ramp. I also think that we should 
> take advantage of existing learning networks, like universities, to spread 
> awareness of OSM and recruit more contributors. I know that these are 
> ambitious goals, and they may take more than a year, but those would be my 
> priorities on the board.
> 
> I don't think it would be wise for the OSM U.S. board to be comprised 
> entirely of inexperienced mappers, but I think it could benefit from having 
> someone on board who brings a fresh perspective and could even be considered 
> an "outsider." The future success of OSM, after all, depends on bringing more 
> outsiders into the fold. Also, I did not make the decision to run for board 
> lightly. I recognize that it would be a serious time and energy commitment, 
> but serving on the board would take advantage of my strengths to give back to 
> an organization that I deeply believe in.
> 
> I'm happy to talk with anyone, so please feel free to reach out to me via 
> email or Twitter. 
> 
> Saludos,
> Robin
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Robin Tolochko]

I considered not running for the board because of the low number of edits
that I've done, but ultimately decided that I have a lot to contribute to
OSM in other ways. It is anyone's prerogative to not vote for someone while
taking edits into account, but I want to explain why I decided to run
despite my low number of edits.

I recently moved back to the U.S. after living in Bogota, Colombia, for the
last four years. While living there, I used OSM data regularly in my job as
a cartographer at an NGO and ran OSM workshops for local university
students. I just moved to Madison, Wisconsin, where I am starting up a
Maptime  chapter and plan to do an introduction to
OSM as our first session. I have been wanting to get more involved with
OSM, and I realized that I could put my community outreach and organizing
to use by running for the board.

As I and many other nominees stated, it's important to get new people
involved. But editing OSM can be quite intimidating to a new person, and I
would make it a priority to improve the on-ramp. I also think that we
should take advantage of existing learning networks, like universities, to
spread awareness of OSM and recruit more contributors. I know that these
are ambitious goals, and they may take more than a year, but those would be
my priorities on the board.

I don't think it would be wise for the OSM U.S. board to be comprised
entirely of inexperienced mappers, but I think it could benefit from having
someone on board who brings a fresh perspective and could even be
considered an "outsider." The future success of OSM, after all, depends on
bringing more outsiders into the fold. Also, I did not make the decision to
run for board lightly. I recognize that it would be a serious time and
energy commitment, but serving on the board would take advantage of my
strengths to give back to an organization that I deeply believe in.

I'm happy to talk with anyone, so please feel free to reach out to me via
email or Twitter .

Saludos,
Robin
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Paul Norman]

On 10/3/2014 8:28 AM, Richard Weait wrote:

Paul, did you take alternate accounts into consideration, or only one
uid per candidate?
I only used the user that was linked from the candidate list. I 
considered multiple IDs, but I didn't expect it to make a significant 
difference for my uses. E.g. Ian has made a substantial number of edits, 
regardless of if imports are counted, and certainly beyond that level I 
alluded to earlier, where the details of experience don't matter.


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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Martijn van Exel]

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Darrell Fuhriman 
wrote:

> I don’t see anything in that description that required editing experience.
> (Relatedly, I’d be curious to see some of the TODO lists, but the github
> repo seems to be private.)
>

I think the main topic of this thread has been adequately covered. I just
wanted to note that the board github repo is private because it needs to
be. We discuss things there that may be sensitive for privacy or other
reasons, like financials and legal advice. I tried to convey how we work as
a board on another thread a few days ago. If you have any questions about
what it is like to serve on the board, I'd be happy to answer those on that
thread, as I am sure my fellow board members are.


-- 
Martijn van Exel
President, US Chapter
OpenStreetMap
http://openstreetmap.us/
http://osm.org/
skype: mvexel
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Ian Dees]

Hi folks.

Let's keep it civil and on-topic. Check the strong language and
exaggerations please.

-Ian, your friendly talk-us moderator
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Serge Wroclawski]

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Darrell Fuhriman  wrote:
>
> On Oct 3, 2014, at 08:28, Richard Weait  wrote:
>
>>  It is just one lens through which one might view the candidates.
>
> Sure, I get that. I’m just saying it’s at best a meaningless lens, and a 
> misleading one at worst.

I must say that I disagree strongly with your message, and that your
tone is extremely disrespectful. Paul is giving information about the
candidates, whether you choose to vote based on it or other criteria
is your choice, but I feel that your messages are downright rude to
Paul.

> I don’t see anything in that description that required editing experience. 
> (Relatedly, I’d be curious to see some of the TODO lists, but the github repo 
> seems to be private.)

If you don't feel that participating in the core activity that this
community is founded on is important- then *that is your choice*, but
calling is misleading, etc. is really beyond the pale IMHO.

- Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Randal Hale]

While it would be nice if a candidate has some editing experience

It has nothing to do with being on the OSM US Board. I was on it for two 
years..we discussed editing, planned mapping events, and planned a 
conference. That was it. Neither of which had any bearing on that 
candidates experience with editing.


Stick with the manifestos and plans to rule the world - editing isn't 
valid in this case (IMO).



Randy "Worst OSM US Treasurer Ever" Hale.


On 10/03/2014 02:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:





Il giorno 03/ott/2014, alle ore 20:13, Darrell Fuhriman  ha 
scritto:

There are many, many ways that someone could be experienced with OSM and a 
valuable contributor while never having made a single edit.


I'm not sure, how would someone  know what it is about without having done it?

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Eric Theise]

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
 wrote:
>> Il giorno 03/ott/2014, alle ore 20:13, Darrell Fuhriman  
>> ha scritto:
>>
>> There are many, many ways that someone could be experienced with OSM and a 
>> valuable contributor while never having made a single edit.
>
>
> I'm not sure, how would someone  know what it is about without having done it?

I'm not going to go quite as far as Darrell in saying that it's a
meaningless measure, but we're talking about the Board here. I'll
argue that a well-functioning Board should have representatives
skilled in such things as publicity, outreach, fundraising,
accounting, activism, perhaps some amount of legal. It's great if
Board members are actively editing, but people can get an effective
understanding of what OSM is about without being an active editor.

Other measures that I mentioned over IRC yesterday would be things
like GitHub activity, which includes both code to OSM projects (e.g.,
openstreetmap-carto or the rails port) and OSM-US-related process.
State of the Map US is planned via GitHub issues, and the valuable
work of gathering sponsors, scheduling, organizing sessions, selecting
scholarship winners, etc. is buried there, and lost in google
hangouts.

And with all these measures, assessing quantity is a lot easier than
assessing quality.

Eric

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Il giorno 03/ott/2014, alle ore 20:13, Darrell Fuhriman  
> ha scritto:
> 
> There are many, many ways that someone could be experienced with OSM and a 
> valuable contributor while never having made a single edit.


I'm not sure, how would someone  know what it is about without having done it?

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Darrell Fuhriman]

On Oct 3, 2014, at 08:28, Richard Weait  wrote:

>  It is just one lens through which one might view the candidates.

Sure, I get that. I’m just saying it’s at best a meaningless lens, and a 
misleading one at worst.

> Darrell, you say that you "can’t think of a reason where number of
> edits made by a board member matters matters one iota". I believe that
> Paul addresses that directly in his statement, "When considering the
> qualifications of someone on the board which sets direction for the
> local chapter, it is certainly useful to their experience as an OSM
> contributor in the US.”

Yes, he does, but I’m saying Paul’s wrong. There are many, many ways that 
someone could be experienced with OSM and a valuable contributor while never 
having made a single edit. I don’t see number of edits to be useful in the 
least, especially since it’s measuring something irrelevant to what a board 
member is actually expected to do.  See, for instance, Martijn’s excellent 
outline: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-September/013612.html

I don’t see anything in that description that required editing experience. 
(Relatedly, I’d be curious to see some of the TODO lists, but the github repo 
seems to be private.)

Darrell


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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Richard Weait]

Darrell, Paul did say that it was a rudimentary analysis.  It is.  It
is just one lens through which one might view the candidates.  Their
candidacy statements are another lens.  Your interaction with each
candidate on lists, at conferences, and through social media is
another (or another three) lens(es).

Of course you are free to disagree with him.  One might suggest that
an experienced board member may have "forgotten what it is like to be
a beginner" and thus would be less able to understand and address the
challenges faced by new mappers.  I agree with this statement to a
point; not every experienced mapper is an effective coach for new
mappers.  Measuring and evaluating that hypothesis would be a
challenge.  :-)

Darrell, you say that you "can’t think of a reason where number of
edits made by a board member matters matters one iota". I believe that
Paul addresses that directly in his statement, "When considering the
qualifications of someone on the board which sets direction for the
local chapter, it is certainly useful to their experience as an OSM
contributor in the US."

I also see the benefits of the supplemental skills list that you added
in your email Darrell.  I wouldn't argue against a candidate who
brings useful supplemental skills, such as the ones you list.

That said, it is my understanding that some of those tasks are already
handled, in part, by other volunteers.  If I remember correctly, the
DC event organization team included several non-board members.  Also,
it is my understanding that the bulk of local events in the US are run
by local volunteers.  Both of those are true on the international
scale when you look at OSMF, and the Working Groups.

Paul, did you take alternate accounts into consideration, or only one
uid per candidate?

Best regards,

Richard

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Re: [Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Darrell Fuhriman]

> the  qualifications of someone on the board which sets direction for the
> local chapter, it is certainly useful to their experience as an OSM
> contributor in the US.
> 
> Past a certain level of experience, the numbers lose value, but I wouldn't
> consider someone with only a few edits per year a good choice who would
> understand what's required to get the US map up to the level of those in
> countries with similar demographics.


I couldn’t disagree with this statement more. This is a simplistic, naïve, and 
exclusive definition of “understanding” that devalues other types of knowledge 
and contributions.

The OSM.us webpage says:

"We support the OpenStreetMap project in the United States through education, 
fostering awareness, ensuring broad availability of data, continuous quality 
improvement, and an active community.”

and

"We support OpenStreetMap by holding annual conferences, providing community 
resources, building partnerships, and by spreading the word.”

Nowhere in there does it say “making lots of edits”.

I can think of any number of skills that would be more valuable to the board in 
particular than skill in editing.

1) Fundraising
2) Community Outreach
3) Running Workshops
4) Conference Organizing
5) Grant Writing
6) Marketing
7) Volunteer Recruiting & Organizing

I could think of more.

In fact, I can’t think of a reason where number of edits made by a board member 
matters matters one iota.

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[Talk-us] Statistics of board candidate edits

[Paul Norman]

I decided to conduct an rudimentary analysis on the edits of the current 
OSM

US board candidates, similar to something I did last year. When considering
the  qualifications of someone on the board which sets direction for the
local chapter, it is certainly useful to their experience as an OSM
contributor in the US.

Past a certain level of experience, the numbers lose value, but I wouldn't
consider someone with only a few edits per year a good choice who would
understand what's required to get the US map up to the level of those in
countries with similar demographics.

To avoid any inadvertent bias, I conducted this analysis blinded, only
substituting in names after it was completed. The analysis was conducted
on the changeset dump from the 29th. To clarify terminology, a change is
a modification of an object which is contained in a changeset.

If the table does not display, it is also at 
https://gist.github.com/pnorman/28351121d9bf12b3a219


  Name│ First edit │ Changes │ Changesets │ US changes │ US 
changesets │   Changes│  Changesets  │ Weeks where US edit  │ 
"Average" state[1]
  ││ │ ││   
│ in last year │ in last year │  made in last year   │
 Martijn van Exel │ 2007-06-10 │  216635 │   3485 │ 166989 
│  2545 │58763 │ 1179 │   52 │ 
Illinois
   Andrew Wiseman │ 2011-02-12 │   82543 │   1222 │   5200 
│   198 │34643 │  582 │   19 │ 
Cape Verde[2]
Richard Welty │ 2009-04-04 │  382843 │   8831 │ 382589 
│  8720 │76168 │  838 │   45 │ 
New York
   Dale Kunce │ 2013-05-30 │   63770 │201 │  18432 
│92 │53055 │  147 │   13 │ 
Cape Verde[3]
   Alex Barth │ 2012-02-10 │   82565 │   1192 │  33266 
│   633 │31436 │  493 │   32 │ 
Middle of Atlantic[4]
Coleman McCormick │ 2009-02-28 │  408229 │   5952 │ 356269 
│  5698 │   106213 │  959 │   48 │ 
East of Bahamas[5]
 Ian Dees │ 2007-12-30 │ 6066596 │   2123 │ 4360026 
│  1888 │25172 │  277 │   41 │ 
Wisconsin
Alyssa Wright │ 2013-03-23 │   27897 │159 │  0 
│ 0 │0 │0 │0 │ 
Rajasthan, India
 Gerald Hasty │ 2011-10-25 │ 894 │ 28 │894 
│26 │   59 │5 │1 │ Utah
   Robin Tolochko │ 2010-04-04 │ 466 │ 12 │ 26 
│ 3 │0 │0 │0 │ 
Córdoba, Colombia
 Eleanor Tutt │ 2013-10-18 │6247 │ 83 │   6247 
│83 │ 6247 │   83 │9 │ 
Missouri
Bryce Nesbitt │ 2010-10-05 │   30580 │   1081 │  26428 
│   921 │ 7615 │  246 │   45 │ 
Nevada


Entries with a 0 had zero edits in that category (e.g. zero edits in the 
US or zero edits last year)


[1]: In the same sense that Kansas is the "average" state of the US.
[2]: Andrew Wiseman mainly edits in Honduras and Afghanistan
[3]: Dale Kunce mainly edits within Guinea
[4]: Alex Barth has about half their edits overseas and half in D.C.
[5]: Coleman McCormick mainly contributes within Florida

Other tools for looking at a contributor's history are 
http://hdyc.neis-one.org/ and http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/


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