[Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-03-27 Thread Toby Murray
If you haven't seen it yet, good news! OSMF has indeed pushed the
database rebuild back a couple of days to begin on April 1st, instead
of the slightly insane (IMO) attempt to finish by April 1st.
http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/03/27/service-schedule-march-april-2012/

After the last thread I started about remapping, I decided to give
priority to making sure all major borders in the US are license clean.
I figured these are important features for things like geocoding and
are prominent on most rendered maps but a lot of mappers may not have
the tools or experience to work with such large objects.

In case you're curious, this is what all members of county border
relations with a nist:state_fips tag looks like, loaded into JOSM...
:)
(yes some states are missing. This was just an easy jxapi query to get
a majority of them):
http://i.imgur.com/tq9uw.jpg

Tonight I finished all of the state borders and in doing so I also
cleaned the US border. I have most of the county borders too although
I did just find a little more work to do on those.

I have noticed a number of people working on license remapping in my
live edit viewer. So that's all good.

But we still have a long way to go. I've seen a little work being done
on interstates but so far it's been a drop in the bucket. I also saw a
major edit on the coastline around the great lakes tonight. But the
west coast is still in bad shape.

So thanks to everyone who is helping. Let's keep it up until the
database goes down this weekend!

Toby

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-03-28 Thread Mike N

On 3/28/2012 2:55 AM, Toby Murray wrote:

  I've seen a little work being done
on interstates but so far it's been a drop in the bucket.


My logic is that data consumers will shut off their feed, so we won't 
have instant chaos on Mapquest.com for example.   After the license 
change, any Interstate breaks will be easy to spot and fix because they 
all have relations, whereas small local road deletions will be lost in 
the noise and the only way to reclaim them is to wait for a Mapdust 
report or compare against TIGER for an entire area.   I've been trying 
to preserve the small roads in my area while they're easy to identify.


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-03-28 Thread Toby Murray
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 5:15 AM, Mike N  wrote:
> On 3/28/2012 2:55 AM, Toby Murray wrote:
>>
>>  I've seen a little work being done
>> on interstates but so far it's been a drop in the bucket.
>
> My logic is that data consumers will shut off their feed, so we won't have
> instant chaos on Mapquest.com for example.   After the license change, any
> Interstate breaks will be easy to spot and fix because they all have
> relations, whereas small local road deletions will be lost in the noise and
> the only way to reclaim them is to wait for a Mapdust report or compare
> against TIGER for an entire area.   I've been trying to preserve the small
> roads in my area while they're easy to identify.

Unless the relations are dirty and get removed :)

But you do bring up a decent point. Luckily my local area has been
pretty much 100% clean for weeks now. I have to zoom out to z9 to find
anything dirty in OSMI and even then it's like 3 roads and one POI. So
I've been focusing on bigger things. But cleaning your local area is
definitely a critical task as well.

Toby

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-03-28 Thread Martijn van Exel
Hi,

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:55 AM, Toby Murray  wrote:

>  database rebuild back a couple of days to begin on April 1st, instead
> of the slightly insane (IMO) attempt to finish by April 1st.
>

I already hear some complaints by OSM and data users about the short notice
- not for the license change, but for the downtime - and I think that is
justified. Usually at least one week's notice is given for API or other
service downtime. So I would not be surprised if it were to be pushed back
some more. But for now, we would need to go with the assumption that the
plan published on the foundation blog is leading.

I have not done nearly as much as I wanted on the interstate system but I
am assuming (haven't asked Simon yet) that cleanmap will be around in a
static state after the changeover, so we can remap from that going forward.
My area is far from clean as e had some persistent decliners here, but I
(with some help) managed to at least get the major road network cleaned up.
Utah is 95% clean for interstates and trunks as well.

-- 
martijn van exel
geospatial omnivore
1109 1st ave #2
salt lake city, ut 84103
801-550-5815
http://oegeo.wordpress.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread James Mast

Well, the database has just gone read-only at about 4:08 AM EDT. I was lucky 
enough to finish the cleanup of the entire Pittsburgh, PA area minus some 
businesses that people added that I couldn't verify since I hadn't been in 
those parts of the city before or recently.  So, they will get axed by the OdbL 
bot when they run it.  Thankfully, it's not that many. I was even able to get 
in a last minute edit to save some of US-19 in West Virginia in a section that 
moonwashed tainted by deleting and retracing it.  So, I did the same thing he 
did, haha, and was able to get it uploaded with less than 4 minutes before they 
went into read-only mode. And I'm right now working on a little more cleanup of 
US-19 in WV that I'll attempt to upload right after the database goes live once 
again (if I'm awake when it happens and the ID's haven't changed). So, who else 
here was at least somewhat successful in their objective in data cleanup (I 
still think this whole thing was kinda stupid, as I'd rather been fixing/adding 
new stuff instead of redoing stuff that others added)? -- James 
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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Alexander Jones
James Mast wrote:

> 
> Well, the database has just gone read-only at about 4:08 AM EDT. I was
> lucky enough to finish the cleanup of the entire Pittsburgh, PA area minus
> some businesses that people added that I couldn't verify since I hadn't
> been in those parts of the city before or recently.  So, they will get
> axed by the OdbL bot when they run it.  Thankfully, it's not that many. I
> was even able to get in a last minute edit to save some of US-19 in West
> Virginia in a section that moonwashed tainted by deleting and retracing
> it.  So, I did the same thing he did, haha, and was able to get it
> uploaded with less than 4 minutes before they went into read-only mode.
> And I'm right now working on a little more cleanup of US-19 in WV that
> I'll attempt to upload right after the database goes live once again (if
> I'm awake when it happens and the ID's haven't changed). So, who else here
> was at least somewhat successful in their objective in data cleanup (I
> still think this whole thing was kinda stupid, as I'd rather been
> fixing/adding new stuff instead of redoing stuff that others added)? --
> James

I got done most of my local area (NW San Antonio), but US-90 west of town 
will be trashed according to OSM Inspector. Luckily, SA wasn't as bad as our 
neighbors up I-35. (read: Austin) Still, I might have to remap some bus 
routes I've done. :( Most of the damage was from college students who 
obviously are no longer active.

-Alexander


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Mike N

On 4/1/2012 4:42 AM, James Mast wrote:

So, who else here was at least somewhat successful in their objective in
data cleanup (I still think this whole thing was kinda stupid, as I'd
rather been fixing/adding new stuff instead of redoing stuff that others
added)?


I was somewhat successful in the sense that for the little time I could 
spend on it, I was able to clean up a small circular region around me. 
In some cases, I didn't bother to touch all nodes for an Interstate; 
there will be some zany geometry when they are deleted, and I'll just 
recreate at that time.  In addition, some intersecting nodes are still 
on the chopping block, and they'll have to be detected by Mapdust or 
Keepright.I also felt it was important to keep adding new stuff 
instead of 100% on cleanup.


  Columbia, SC however will be unusable for navigation for some time to 
come.


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread James Mast

> On 4/1/2012 6:54 AM, Mike N wrote:
> I also felt it was important to keep adding new stuff 
> instead of 100% on cleanup.
>  I did add new stuff as well.  Mostly it was brand new sub-divisions that 
> were built after the original 2007 TIGER import that I spotted when cleaning 
> up other data. -- James  ___
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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread the Old Topo Depot
I cleaned up most of I95, I20 and I26 in SC, but did not have time for I77
or any of the other road classes, so SC will need a lot more work.

If I77 and SC 277 can be fixed (and I'm seeing what I think are a few
bridge segments I missed on I26, darn it) at least the major roads should
route.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Mike N  wrote:

> On 4/1/2012 4:42 AM, James Mast wrote:
>
>> So, who else here was at least somewhat successful in their objective in
>> data cleanup (I still think this whole thing was kinda stupid, as I'd
>> rather been fixing/adding new stuff instead of redoing stuff that others
>> added)?
>>
>
> I was somewhat successful in the sense that for the little time I could
> spend on it, I was able to clean up a small circular region around me. In
> some cases, I didn't bother to touch all nodes for an Interstate; there
> will be some zany geometry when they are deleted, and I'll just recreate at
> that time.  In addition, some intersecting nodes are still on the chopping
> block, and they'll have to be detected by Mapdust or Keepright.I also
> felt it was important to keep adding new stuff instead of 100% on cleanup.
>
>  Columbia, SC however will be unusable for navigation for some time to
> come.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Mike N

On 4/1/2012 7:51 AM, the Old Topo Depot wrote:

I cleaned up most of I95, I20 and I26 in SC,


I saw those come through - thanks for fixing them!

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread James Mast

I just noticed that 99% of I-81 is going to be nuked in Tennessee just now 
because of the change.  Guess I found my project for the next few days till the 
database is live again!  Thank goodness that you can edit offline in JOSM. 
Hopefully I can finish the I-81 rebuild off-line before the database is live so 
it can be one of the first uploads.  So, just wanted to alert you guys to my 
plan here so nobody else does the same thing as me so nobody else wastes their 
time on it. -- James___
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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread the Old Topo Depot
Perhaps a wiki page could be used to coordinate this work.  There's
certainly plenty of interstate work to go around ;-)


On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 8:07 AM, James Mast wrote:

>  I just noticed that 99% of I-81 is going to be nuked in Tennessee just
> now because of the change.  Guess I found my project for the next few days
> till the database is live again!  Thank goodness that you can edit offline
> in JOSM.
>
> Hopefully I can finish the I-81 rebuild off-line before the database is
> live so it can be one of the first uploads.  So, just wanted to alert you
> guys to my plan here so nobody else does the same thing as me so nobody
> else wastes their time on it.
>
> -- James
>
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>


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Mike N

On 4/1/2012 8:07 AM, James Mast wrote:

Hopefully I can finish the I-81 rebuild off-line before the database is
live so it can be one of the first uploads.


And a small caution - if the ODBL removal bot happens to hit it before 
your upload, there will be version conflicts.   I have no idea on its 
timing however.


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread James Mast

Don't worry Mike.  I have to nuke I-81 myself as it's almost all created by 
Lar's from the ways to the nodes.  This would be a wholesale cleanhouse with 
everything I upload as V1's except for maybe a few ramps that aren't tainted 
that bad to begin with.  So, I wouldn't have to worry about the ODBL bot. And I 
just wish the the OSM database wasn't getting a 500 error when trying to 
download via the Slippy map right now.  Uggh.  I was able to download the I-81 
TN relation directly, just can't use the Slippy map.  Too bad the Overpass API 
can't also download the Super Relations when you download an area. -- James
 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 08:24:44 -0400
> From: nice...@att.net
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping
> 
> On 4/1/2012 8:07 AM, James Mast wrote:
> > Hopefully I can finish the I-81 rebuild off-line before the database is
> > live so it can be one of the first uploads.
> 
> And a small caution - if the ODBL removal bot happens to hit it before 
> your upload, there will be version conflicts.   I have no idea on its 
> timing however.
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Richard Weait
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 4:42 AM, James Mast  wrote:
> Well, the database has just gone read-only at about 4:08 AM EDT.
[...]
> I was even able to get in a last minute edit to save some of US-19 in West
> Virginia in a section that moonwashed tainted by deleting and retracing it.
> So, I did the same thing he did, haha, and was able to get it uploaded with
> less than 4 minutes before they went into read-only mode.

Wow.  Took that right to the edge, didn't you? :-)

[ .. ]
> So, who else here was at least somewhat successful in their objective in
> data cleanup

I started on the CA-side of Lake Ontario in December iirc, cleared it
in bits and pieces finishing yesterday.  Yesterday I tackled a piece
of Lake Michigan.  Cleaned perhaps 50km with better geometry from the
improved aerials.  Still room for improvement of course.  Some of that
coastline looks pretty odd from the air so the "line" isn't always
clear.  I cleaned up the last dodgy interchanges in the main highways
in Southern Ontario this week as well.

Since December-ish, I've been cleaning and re-surveying around
southern Ontario.  Many others were doing the same thing, so the load
was pretty light.

And I contacted a number of mappers, some of whom agreed and even
started mapping again.  So that was pretty cool.

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Toby Murray
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 3:42 AM, James Mast  wrote:
>
> So, who else here was at least somewhat successful in their objective in
> data cleanup (I still think this whole thing was kinda stupid, as I'd rather
> been fixing/adding new stuff instead of redoing stuff that others added)?

Well, my ultimate objective was to have a completely clean map so that
didn't entirely work out :)

More realistically, I am happy with the work I got done on
administrative boundaries. Those can be hard to edit under normal
circumstances. Trying to recover from half missing ones after the
license change would have been even more of a headache.

I was working on coastlines when the database went down. I have some
changes in the 2nd to last minutely replication file :)

I think all of California and Oregon should have clean coastlines. I
was through about 70% of Washington when the hammer dropped. I'm not
incredibly happy with some of the results although in a lot of
situations the NHD geometry I was importing was definitely better than
the existing data from PGS. So while it isn't perfect I think it is at
least better.

Here is the view of the live edit map when the database went down:
http://i.imgur.com/FuXRL.png

Not sure what was going on in Ukraine...

Toby

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread stevea
I look forward to a navigable South Carolina, I look forward to a 
navigable Southern California.  Those (and much more other work) seem 
weeks away at least, it is safe to say.  Choppy waters ahead, our 
next lighthouse is the future.  Stay connected.  Seek answers.  Keep 
communicating well amongst ourselves.  This seeming body blow 
(license change, remapping, "how quickly it has come") certainly must 
not be fatal.


Northern California cleaned up between northern Monterey and San 
Francisco.  The Bay Area flirts with "intact" except for some south 
Bay freeways.  Silicon Valley is not now navigable but may be soon. 
(Some eleventh hour edits on my part didn't clean up nicely or in 
time.  Or did they?)  Open chapters of OSM continue.  OSM is at least 
the sum of our history and contributions.  Look how far we are 
already!


The license change is a process.  A new chapter has begun.  OSM continues.

SteveA
California

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread David Litke
I am a newbie, wonder why the current license change downtime is affecting 
data. Does the new license make some existing data illegel and hence they 
are removing it? Or are they making use of the downtime to do additional QC 
edits/deletions?


- Original Message - 
From: 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2012 6:42 AM
Subject: Talk-us Digest, Vol 53, Issue 2



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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Update on remapping (James Mast)
  2. Re: Update on remapping (the Old Topo Depot)
  3. Re: Update on remapping (Mike N)
  4. Re: Update on remapping (James Mast)
  5. Re: Update on remapping (the Old Topo Depot)
  6. Re: Update on remapping (Mike N)
  7. Re: Update on remapping (James Mast)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 07:50:03 -0400
From: James Mast 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



On 4/1/2012 6:54 AM, Mike N wrote:
I also felt it was important to keep adding new stuff
instead of 100% on cleanup.
 I did add new stuff as well.  Mostly it was brand new sub-divisions that 
were built after the original 2007 TIGER import that I spotted when 
cleaning up other data. -- James

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 07:51:55 -0400
From: the Old Topo Depot 
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I cleaned up most of I95, I20 and I26 in SC, but did not have time for I77
or any of the other road classes, so SC will need a lot more work.

If I77 and SC 277 can be fixed (and I'm seeing what I think are a few
bridge segments I missed on I26, darn it) at least the major roads should
route.

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Mike N  wrote:


On 4/1/2012 4:42 AM, James Mast wrote:


So, who else here was at least somewhat successful in their objective in
data cleanup (I still think this whole thing was kinda stupid, as I'd
rather been fixing/adding new stuff instead of redoing stuff that others
added)?



I was somewhat successful in the sense that for the little time I could
spend on it, I was able to clean up a small circular region around me. In
some cases, I didn't bother to touch all nodes for an Interstate; there
will be some zany geometry when they are deleted, and I'll just recreate 
at
that time.  In addition, some intersecting nodes are still on the 
chopping

block, and they'll have to be detected by Mapdust or Keepright.I also
felt it was important to keep adding new stuff instead of 100% on 
cleanup.


 Columbia, SC however will be unusable for navigation for some time to
come.


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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2012 07:55:17 -0400
From: Mike N 
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping
Message-ID: <4f784225.7000...@att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 4/1/2012 7:51 AM, the Old Topo Depot wrote:

I cleaned up most of I95, I20 and I26 in SC,


I saw those come through - thanks for fixing them!



------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 08:07:24 -0400
From: James Mast 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


I just noticed that 99% of I-81 is going to be nuked in Tennessee just now 
because of the change.  Guess I found my project for the next few days 
till the database is live again!  Thank goodness that you can edit offline 
in JOSM. Hopefully I can finish the I-81 rebuild off-line before the 
database is live so it can be one of the first uploads.  So, just wanted 
to alert you guys to my plan here so nobody else does the same t

Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Richard Welty

On 4/1/12 6:11 PM, David Litke wrote:
I am a newbie, wonder why the current license change downtime is 
affecting data. Does the new license make some existing data illegel 
and hence they are removing it? Or are they making use of the downtime 
to do additional QC edits/deletions?

"illegal" is perhaps not quite the right word for it.

data is being removed because some contributors didn't agree with the 
license change,

and we can't retain their edits under the circumstances.

richard


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Richard Weait
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Richard Welty  wrote:
> On 4/1/12 6:11 PM, David Litke wrote:
>>
>> I am a newbie, wonder why the current license change downtime is affecting
>> data. Does the new license make some existing data illegel and hence they
>> are removing it? Or are they making use of the downtime to do additional QC
>> edits/deletions?
>
> "illegal" is perhaps not quite the right word for it.
>
> data is being removed because some contributors didn't agree with the
> license change,
> and we can't retain their edits under the circumstances.

Also, "Welcome" and please trim your replies to only the relevant part
when replying via the digest. :-)  You probably know this already, as
we can all slip up on that once in a while.

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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-01 Thread Paul Norman
> From: David Litke [mailto:dwli...@comcast.net]
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping
> 
> I am a newbie, wonder why the current license change downtime is
> affecting data. Does the new license make some existing data illegel and
> hence they are removing it? Or are they making use of the downtime to do
> additional QC edits/deletions?

The downtime is for two purposes. The first of these is a server move and
postgresql upgrade for the database server. This is what is currently going
on and is just turning the database on the old server to a file, copying it
to the new server and loading it.

The second stage of the process is for the license change. Right now there
are two types of data in OSM: those which can be licensed under CC by-sa and
those which can be licensed under CC by-sa or ODbL. The goal of the license
change is to remove the content which can only be licensed under CC by-sa so
all the data can be licensed under the ODbL. After this removal is completed
then OSM will be made available under the ODbL license only.

Until the rebuild is complete and a new planet file is published under the
ODbL OSM remains published only under CC by-sa.

This is, of course, a simplification, but should get the idea across.


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Re: [Talk-us] Update on remapping

2012-04-04 Thread James Mast

FYI guys, the server is now back up and accepting edits. As for my TN I-81 
rebuild, I got to just shy of Exit #50.  I think that was pretty good over the 
last few days doing it in my spare time.  So, I'm uploading what I have done 
and will continue on it from there.  At least with being online when the server 
came out of read-only mode, I didn't have to worry about any conflicts with 
this rebuild of TN I-81. :) -- James   ___
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