Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
* Jack Burke burke...@gmail.com [2015-06-22 08:32 -0400]: On June 22, 2015 2:46:36 AM EDT, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: tiger:reviewed=no Most of the well reviewed Tiger I see still has this tag. People don't know to delete it. Usually I change it to =yes instead of just deleting it. The main reason is I frequently use ITOworld maps to review the county I live in to find unreviewed roads, and I like the color pattern better that way. Hm. Maybe I'll start doing that. I also use tiger:reviewed=position to signify that I've armchair-mapped the way to align with aerial imagery but haven't yet been out to verify the road name. (Details about my use of this tag are in this diary entry: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/asciiphil/diary/16247 ) -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- NOTICE: Anyone seen smoking will be assumed to be on fire and will be summarily put out. --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
I’m considering whether it makes sense to remove the `tiger:reviewed=no` tag when a user performs certain edits in iD. Discuss here: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2697 On Jun 22, 2015, at 2:46 AM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as highway=residential tiger:reviewed=no Most of the well reviewed Tiger I see still has this tag. People don't know to delete it. The automatic delete on edit does not apply to tiger:reviewed (it applies to a Tiger tag I wish was kept instead!). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as highway=residential tiger:reviewed=no Most of the well reviewed Tiger I see still has this tag. People don't know to delete it. The automatic delete on edit does not apply to tiger:reviewed (it applies to a Tiger tag I wish was kept instead!). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
So, just for fun, I'm going through the area you pointed out and fixing some of the roads. I'm making some of those Unclassified instead of Tertiary because they go from nowhere to nowhere, but feel free to change them. I plan on making a road trip in a few weeks, and depending on timing and weather, I might make a detour through that area and capture a random sampling of those roads in Mapillary. -jack On June 19, 2015 3:47:22 PM EDT, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Just as a postscript to this discussion I thought I'd cite an example area. If you look here, in Georgia: http://cycle.travel/map?lat=31.9023lon=-84.0398zoom=14 you'll see that most of the roads are unreviewed TIGER residentials. Of those, these are adjacent to each other: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359782 - good tarmac, should be highway=tertiary http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359913 - unpaved road; highway=unclassified, surface=unpaved http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359784 - probably tertiary, but lousy geometry at the S http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359783 - whoops, where did the connectivity go? All of this is trivially fixable but right now there's no way of using them for routing or sensible cartography. Do dive in - the cycle.travel rendering makes it obvious which bits need fixing, and you learn to identify the roads which are likely to be paved through roads and therefore targets to fix. It's quite good fun. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848589.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Usually I change it to =yes instead of just deleting it. The main reason is I frequently use ITOworld maps to review the county I live in to find unreviewed roads, and I like the color pattern better that way. -jack On June 22, 2015 2:46:36 AM EDT, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as highway=residential tiger:reviewed=no Most of the well reviewed Tiger I see still has this tag. People don't know to delete it. The automatic delete on edit does not apply to tiger:reviewed (it applies to a Tiger tag I wish was kept instead!). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
There's really two kinds of cycling: including trails and unpaved roads because your bicycle has nobblies and springs, and not. The first are fine with such roads, and the second very much not. I've done both types of cycling, and with high pressure narrow tyres (that's a nod to Richard, so he feels more at home here), gravel roads are worse than a boot to the head. Harald Kliems writes: Richard, I would somewhat caution against penalizing unpaved roads too much. In many areas of the US they actually make wonderful cycling routes, whereas the paved alternatives are high traffic and unpleasant to ride on. Of course, proper smoothness tagging would help but that will be a long way coming. Until then you could consider a user setting to avoid/not avoid unpaved roads. Harald. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Just as a postscript to this discussion I thought I'd cite an example area. If you look here, in Georgia: http://cycle.travel/map?lat=31.9023lon=-84.0398zoom=14 you'll see that most of the roads are unreviewed TIGER residentials. Of those, these are adjacent to each other: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359782 - good tarmac, should be highway=tertiary http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359913 - unpaved road; highway=unclassified, surface=unpaved http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359784 - probably tertiary, but lousy geometry at the S http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359783 - whoops, where did the connectivity go? All of this is trivially fixable but right now there's no way of using them for routing or sensible cartography. Do dive in - the cycle.travel rendering makes it obvious which bits need fixing, and you learn to identify the roads which are likely to be paved through roads and therefore targets to fix. It's quite good fun. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848589.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us div dir=ltrRichard, I would somewhat caution against penalizing unpaved roads too much. In many areas of the US they actually make wonderful cycling routes, whereas the paved alternatives are high traffic and unpleasant to ride on. Of course, proper smoothness tagging would help but that will be a long way coming. Until then you could consider a user setting to avoid/not avoid unpaved roads.brdiv Harald./div/divbrdiv class=gmail_quotediv dir=ltrOn Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM Richard Fairhurst lt;a href=mailto:rich...@systemed.net;rich...@systemed.net/agt; wrote:br/divblockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1exJust as a postscript to this discussion I thought I#39;d cite an example area.br If you look here, in Georgia:br br a href=http://cycle.travel/map?lat=31.9023amp;lon=-84.0398amp;zoom=14; rel=noreferrer target=_blankhttp://cycle.travel/map?lat=31.9023amp;lon=-84.0398amp;zoom=14/abr br you#39;ll see that most of the roads are unreviewed TIGER residentials. Ofbr those, these are adjacent to each other:br br a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359782; rel=noreferrer target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359782/a - good tarmac, should bebr highway=tertiarybr a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359913; rel=noreferrer target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359913/a - unpaved road;br highway=unclassified, surface=unpavedbr a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359784; rel=noreferrer target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359784/a - probably tertiary, but lousybr geometry at the Sbr a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359783; rel=noreferrer target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359783/a - whoops, where did thebr connectivity go?br br All of this is trivially fixable but right now there#39;s no way of using thembr for routing or sensible cartography. Do dive in - the a href=http://cycle.travel; rel=noreferrer target=_blankcycle.travel/a renderingbr makes it obvious which bits need fixing, and you learn to identify the roadsbr which are likely to be paved through roads and therefore targets to fix.br It#39;s quite good fun. :)br br cheersbr Richardbr br br br br br --br View this message in context: a href=http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848589.html; rel=noreferrer target=_blankhttp://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848589.html/abr Sent from the USA
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Harald Kliems wrote: Until then you could consider a user setting to avoid/not avoid unpaved roads. Unfortunately contraction hierarchies - the routing algorithm used by OSRM - don't really allow user settings. For each distinct routing profile, you need to regenerate the routing graph, which takes (many) hours and requires (many) GB of RAM both to route and to host. cycle.travel penalises surface types variably: surface=mud gets a big penalty, surface=gravel not so much. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848600.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Richard, I would somewhat caution against penalizing unpaved roads too much. In many areas of the US they actually make wonderful cycling routes, whereas the paved alternatives are high traffic and unpleasant to ride on. Of course, proper smoothness tagging would help but that will be a long way coming. Until then you could consider a user setting to avoid/not avoid unpaved roads. Harald. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:48 PM Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Just as a postscript to this discussion I thought I'd cite an example area. If you look here, in Georgia: http://cycle.travel/map?lat=31.9023lon=-84.0398zoom=14 you'll see that most of the roads are unreviewed TIGER residentials. Of those, these are adjacent to each other: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359782 - good tarmac, should be highway=tertiary http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359913 - unpaved road; highway=unclassified, surface=unpaved http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359784 - probably tertiary, but lousy geometry at the S http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359783 - whoops, where did the connectivity go? All of this is trivially fixable but right now there's no way of using them for routing or sensible cartography. Do dive in - the cycle.travel rendering makes it obvious which bits need fixing, and you learn to identify the roads which are likely to be paved through roads and therefore targets to fix. It's quite good fun. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848589.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Just as a postscript to this discussion I thought I'd cite an example area. If you look here, in Georgia: http://cycle.travel/map?lat=31.9023lon=-84.0398zoom=14 you'll see that most of the roads are unreviewed TIGER residentials. Of those, these are adjacent to each other: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359782 - good tarmac, should be highway=tertiary http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359913 - unpaved road; highway=unclassified, surface=unpaved http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359784 - probably tertiary, but lousy geometry at the S http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/9359783 - whoops, where did the connectivity go? All of this is trivially fixable but right now there's no way of using them for routing or sensible cartography. Do dive in - the cycle.travel rendering makes it obvious which bits need fixing, and you learn to identify the roads which are likely to be paved through roads and therefore targets to fix. It's quite good fun. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848589.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Paul Norman writes: The most important change is probably setting appropriate surface information. I don't know the exact secret sauce magic of cycle.travel, but surface information is very important for selecting reasonable routes on a bike - or indeed, any non-foot method of transportation. Also, keep in mind, most rural highway=residential from TIGER should be either highway=unclassified, highway=track, highway=service, or deleted. EXCELLENT points, BOTH of these, Paul. Unfortunately, surface tags are not especially widespread (in the USA, where I am familiar), but where found, they do make excellent choice points in bicycle routing logic. Richard (Fairhurst), if cycle.travel/map's router logic is not paying attention to surface= tags, perhaps it should, as doing so truly can improve selected routes. (Not that isn't a fine router already!) Who knows, it's possible, even likely that OSM gets lots of new surface tagging if we have a router that pays attention. (Data feeds usage, usage feeds data, ad infinitum). SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
SteveA wrote: Richard (Fairhurst), if cycle.travel/map's router logic is not paying attention to surface= tags, perhaps it should, as doing so truly can improve selected routes It very much does - it'll look at surface=, and failing that tracktype= or smoothness=, as one of the principal criteria for how cyclable is this?. I've suffered on too many bumpy dirt paths in my time to let that one past! cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848239.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Minh Nguyen writes: You aren't alone. I stopped bothering with tiger:reviewed tags back in the Potlatch 1 days. It just isn't a well-designed tag: - not very discoverable to mappers who weren't around in 2008 Makes ways a sickly yellow if you edit using JOSM. - doesn't say whether the names, classification, or geometry was reviewed, or whether the review covered the entire way I remove it when I've checked (usually via field survey, but sometimes when someone else that I know has been there) that the name is correct, and ensured that the geometry is correct. I used to just remove tiger:reviewed, but now I remove all the tiger: tags. But I think it'd be unfortunate to totally discount tiger:reviewed=no ways. I think the usual thing to do is check to see if DaveHansenTiger is still the owner. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Richard Fairhurst writes: Finally, many thanks to everyone who's tested it so far, particularly Steve All - your feedback was and continues to be enormously useful. Kind of you to say this, Richard. I was delighted to help test your fine bicycle router. I wish cycle.travel, and especially cycle.travel/map the very best in the future. If you haven't tried to route a bicycle trip using this router (and its underlying OSM data), you are missing out: it is a tall problem very well addressed, and it is actually quite fun to use. See if you can't drag pins to come up with a shorter route than the algorithm does: much of the time, you can't beat it! SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
On 2015-06-13 17:08, Harald Kliems wrote: Very nice, Richard! One quick comment: I might not be the only who doesn't always change the tiger:reviewed tag when fixing TIGER-imported roads. I don't know if that's technically feasible, but maybe it would be better to check if a way has been modified since import, independent of the tiger:reviewed tag. I guess you could assign those a slightly lower priority than the ones that have tiger:reviewed=yes. You aren't alone. I stopped bothering with tiger:reviewed tags back in the Potlatch 1 days. It just isn't a well-designed tag: - not very discoverable to mappers who weren't around in 2008 - not automatic enough - doesn't say whether the names, classification, or geometry was reviewed, or whether the review covered the entire way I think we generally treat tiger:* tags as cruft these days. (I sometimes use tiger:name_* in cleaning up erroneously merged ways or ways lossily unduplicated along county lines, but that's about it.) On the other hand, ways without tiger:reviewed tags are more likely to have been entered by hand or rigorously reviewed, so it does make sense to reward such ways. But I think it'd be unfortunate to totally discount tiger:reviewed=no ways. FWIW, I also leave a lot of usable paved roads as highway=residential in rural areas, but there are plenty of considerations that vary from region to region (even within a state). On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 1:38 PM Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net mailto:rich...@systemed.net wrote: Hi all, At State of the Map US last weekend I was really pleased to unveil bicycle routing for the US (and Canada) at my site, cycle.travel http://cycle.travel. The planner, at http://cycle.travel/map , will plan a bike route for you between any two points - whether in the same city or on opposite sides of the continent. It's all based on OSM data but also takes account of elevation and other factors. I dogfooded it with a three-day ride around New York state after SOTM-US, and it found me some lovely quiet roads in and around the Catskills. I hope it'll be equally useful for the other two-wheelers amongst us. There's still a lot I want to add (as detailed at http://cycle.travel/news/new_cycle_travel_directions_for_the_us_and_canada) but I hope you enjoy it. Plug aside, there's a couple of things might be relevant to US mappers. First of all, I'm aiming high with this - the aim isn't just to make the best OSM-powered bike router of the US, but the best bike router full stop for commuters, leisure cyclists and tourers. (I leave the athletes to Strava!) Here in Britain, experience over the years has been that good bike routing and good bike cartography - historically via CycleStreets and OpenCycleMap - are a really effective way of driving contributions to OSM. So if you know cyclists who aren't yet contributing to OSM, maybe throw this at them - and if it doesn't find the route they'd recommend, maybe there's some unmapped infrastructure they could be persuaded to add! Second, the routing and cartography both heavily distrust unreviewed TIGER. In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as highway=residential tiger:reviewed=no Any road with tiger:reviewed removed or altered, any road in urban areas, and any road with highway=unclassified or greater is assumed to be a usable paved road. (There are a few additional bits of logic but that's the general principle.) Unreviewed rural residentials are shown on the map (high zoom levels) as a faint grey dashed line, explained in the key as Unsurveyed road. I've been finding this a really useful way of locating unreviewed TIGER and fixing it... it's actually quite addictive. :) Looking for roads which cross rivers, or with long sweeping curves, is an easy way of identifying quick wins. My modus operandi is to retag 2+-lane roads with painted centrelines as tertiary, smaller paved roads as unclassified, and just to take the tiger:reviewed tag off paved residential roads. Anything unpaved gets a surface tag and/or highway=track. I can't promise minutely updates I'm afraid - the routing/map update process takes two full days to run so it'll be more monthly than minutely. But I hope you find it as useful as I do. You'll see there's a tiny little pen icon at the bottom right of http://cycle.travel/map which takes you to edit the current location in OSM. Finally, many thanks to everyone who's tested it so far, particularly Steve All - your feedback was and continues to be enormously useful. cheers Richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Well, you've certainly motivated me to from now on always modify the tiger:reviewed tag :-) Thanks again for your efforts! On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 2:38 PM Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Harald Kliems wrote: Very nice, Richard! One quick comment: I might not be the only who doesn't always change the tiger:reviewed tag when fixing TIGER-imported roads. I don't know if that's technically feasible, but maybe it would be better to check if a way has been modified since import, independent of the tiger:reviewed tag. Absolutely. I did consider this and it's very feasible - osm2pgsql can tell you the user who last modified a way, and if it's DaveHansenTiger or woodpeck-fixbot, you can presume it's unmodified. Unfortunately, there are way too many false positives. Partly this is consequential damage (in particular, ways which have been split) but also bulk edits - for example, in several of states, people have assigned (say) maxspeed=35mph to all ways matching certain criteria, including dirt tracks tagged as highway=residential. This means the last editor is no guarantee that a residential is actually a usable paved road. After a few experiments (and I've been working on this all year, pretty much) I concluded that the tiger:reviewed tag is the only way of doing it. I'd restate that I'm only using this on rural residentials - anything unclassified or higher, or in an urban area, is assumed ok. Personally I have F6 assigned as a shortcut key in P2 for highway=unclassified for ease of quick retagging. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848141.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
On 6/14/2015 2:24 PM, Harald Kliems wrote: Well, you've certainly motivated me to from now on always modify the tiger:reviewed tag :-) Thanks again for your efforts! The most important change is probably setting appropriate surface information. I don't know the exact secret sauce magic of cycle.travel, but surface information is very important for selecting reasonable routes on a bike - or indeed, any non-foot method of transportation. Also, keep in mind, most rural highway=residential from TIGER should be either highway=unclassified, highway=track, highway=service, or deleted. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Harald Kliems wrote: Very nice, Richard! One quick comment: I might not be the only who doesn't always change the tiger:reviewed tag when fixing TIGER-imported roads. I don't know if that's technically feasible, but maybe it would be better to check if a way has been modified since import, independent of the tiger:reviewed tag. Absolutely. I did consider this and it's very feasible - osm2pgsql can tell you the user who last modified a way, and if it's DaveHansenTiger or woodpeck-fixbot, you can presume it's unmodified. Unfortunately, there are way too many false positives. Partly this is consequential damage (in particular, ways which have been split) but also bulk edits - for example, in several of states, people have assigned (say) maxspeed=35mph to all ways matching certain criteria, including dirt tracks tagged as highway=residential. This means the last editor is no guarantee that a residential is actually a usable paved road. After a few experiments (and I've been working on this all year, pretty much) I concluded that the tiger:reviewed tag is the only way of doing it. I'd restate that I'm only using this on rural residentials - anything unclassified or higher, or in an urban area, is assumed ok. Personally I have F6 assigned as a shortcut key in P2 for highway=unclassified for ease of quick retagging. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/cycle-travel-US-bike-routing-and-unreviewed-rural-TIGER-tp5848084p5848141.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
On 6/13/15 2:38 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: I've been finding this a really useful way of locating unreviewed TIGER and fixing it... it's actually quite addictive. :) Looking for roads which cross rivers, or with long sweeping curves, is an easy way of identifying quick wins. My modus operandi is to retag 2+-lane roads with painted centrelines as tertiary, smaller paved roads as unclassified, and just to take the tiger:reviewed tag off paved residential roads. Anything unpaved gets a surface tag and/or highway=track. i mostly like this. my big concern is that part of my personal approach to tiger review is double checking the names on the road signs and verifying any highway designations for any needed correction of the ref tags. on the flip side, tiger review is taking forever and maybe it's ok if that gets decoupled. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Very nice, Richard! One quick comment: I might not be the only who doesn't always change the tiger:reviewed tag when fixing TIGER-imported roads. I don't know if that's technically feasible, but maybe it would be better to check if a way has been modified since import, independent of the tiger:reviewed tag. I guess you could assign those a slightly lower priority than the ones that have tiger:reviewed=yes. Harald. On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 1:38 PM Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Hi all, At State of the Map US last weekend I was really pleased to unveil bicycle routing for the US (and Canada) at my site, cycle.travel. The planner, at http://cycle.travel/map , will plan a bike route for you between any two points - whether in the same city or on opposite sides of the continent. It's all based on OSM data but also takes account of elevation and other factors. I dogfooded it with a three-day ride around New York state after SOTM-US, and it found me some lovely quiet roads in and around the Catskills. I hope it'll be equally useful for the other two-wheelers amongst us. There's still a lot I want to add (as detailed at http://cycle.travel/news/new_cycle_travel_directions_for_the_us_and_canada ) but I hope you enjoy it. Plug aside, there's a couple of things might be relevant to US mappers. First of all, I'm aiming high with this - the aim isn't just to make the best OSM-powered bike router of the US, but the best bike router full stop for commuters, leisure cyclists and tourers. (I leave the athletes to Strava!) Here in Britain, experience over the years has been that good bike routing and good bike cartography - historically via CycleStreets and OpenCycleMap - are a really effective way of driving contributions to OSM. So if you know cyclists who aren't yet contributing to OSM, maybe throw this at them - and if it doesn't find the route they'd recommend, maybe there's some unmapped infrastructure they could be persuaded to add! Second, the routing and cartography both heavily distrust unreviewed TIGER. In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as highway=residential tiger:reviewed=no Any road with tiger:reviewed removed or altered, any road in urban areas, and any road with highway=unclassified or greater is assumed to be a usable paved road. (There are a few additional bits of logic but that's the general principle.) Unreviewed rural residentials are shown on the map (high zoom levels) as a faint grey dashed line, explained in the key as Unsurveyed road. I've been finding this a really useful way of locating unreviewed TIGER and fixing it... it's actually quite addictive. :) Looking for roads which cross rivers, or with long sweeping curves, is an easy way of identifying quick wins. My modus operandi is to retag 2+-lane roads with painted centrelines as tertiary, smaller paved roads as unclassified, and just to take the tiger:reviewed tag off paved residential roads. Anything unpaved gets a surface tag and/or highway=track. I can't promise minutely updates I'm afraid - the routing/map update process takes two full days to run so it'll be more monthly than minutely. But I hope you find it as useful as I do. You'll see there's a tiny little pen icon at the bottom right of http://cycle.travel/map which takes you to edit the current location in OSM. Finally, many thanks to everyone who's tested it so far, particularly Steve All - your feedback was and continues to be enormously useful. cheers Richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] cycle.travel US bike routing, and unreviewed rural TIGER
Hi all, At State of the Map US last weekend I was really pleased to unveil bicycle routing for the US (and Canada) at my site, cycle.travel. The planner, at http://cycle.travel/map , will plan a bike route for you between any two points - whether in the same city or on opposite sides of the continent. It's all based on OSM data but also takes account of elevation and other factors. I dogfooded it with a three-day ride around New York state after SOTM-US, and it found me some lovely quiet roads in and around the Catskills. I hope it'll be equally useful for the other two-wheelers amongst us. There's still a lot I want to add (as detailed at http://cycle.travel/news/new_cycle_travel_directions_for_the_us_and_canada) but I hope you enjoy it. Plug aside, there's a couple of things might be relevant to US mappers. First of all, I'm aiming high with this - the aim isn't just to make the best OSM-powered bike router of the US, but the best bike router full stop for commuters, leisure cyclists and tourers. (I leave the athletes to Strava!) Here in Britain, experience over the years has been that good bike routing and good bike cartography - historically via CycleStreets and OpenCycleMap - are a really effective way of driving contributions to OSM. So if you know cyclists who aren't yet contributing to OSM, maybe throw this at them - and if it doesn't find the route they'd recommend, maybe there's some unmapped infrastructure they could be persuaded to add! Second, the routing and cartography both heavily distrust unreviewed TIGER. In other words, it won't route over a rural road tagged as highway=residential tiger:reviewed=no Any road with tiger:reviewed removed or altered, any road in urban areas, and any road with highway=unclassified or greater is assumed to be a usable paved road. (There are a few additional bits of logic but that's the general principle.) Unreviewed rural residentials are shown on the map (high zoom levels) as a faint grey dashed line, explained in the key as Unsurveyed road. I've been finding this a really useful way of locating unreviewed TIGER and fixing it... it's actually quite addictive. :) Looking for roads which cross rivers, or with long sweeping curves, is an easy way of identifying quick wins. My modus operandi is to retag 2+-lane roads with painted centrelines as tertiary, smaller paved roads as unclassified, and just to take the tiger:reviewed tag off paved residential roads. Anything unpaved gets a surface tag and/or highway=track. I can't promise minutely updates I'm afraid - the routing/map update process takes two full days to run so it'll be more monthly than minutely. But I hope you find it as useful as I do. You'll see there's a tiny little pen icon at the bottom right of http://cycle.travel/map which takes you to edit the current location in OSM. Finally, many thanks to everyone who's tested it so far, particularly Steve All - your feedback was and continues to be enormously useful. cheers Richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
