Re: Saving old mail?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi ztrader,

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:47:03 -0700GMT (14/09/2000, 07:47 +0800GMT),
ztrader wrote:

z (1) If I do that, is it possible to save only the message file and not
z the index file? If I then try to read the message file by itself, will
z it work without the index?

If TB encounters a message database without index, it will reindex by
automtically. No need to save the index file.

z (2) The files would be renamed (date, etc added to name). If I do
z this, can this file be read back easily, or does one have to set up
z another folder for it? (I DON'T want to mix old and new messages at a
z later time - just look at old ones only).

I would think if you later anything, it cannot be read back easily.
That's a guess.

z (3) Is it easier to save as a Unix file instead? I'd prefer this as I
z then could strip off extra headers and save a bit of space.

You can save it as a unix file, but for TB to read it, you'll have to
reimport it into TB msg base format.

z (4) In a Unix file format, what are the MINIMUM required headers so TB
z can read it OK?

See 3.

z (5) If I strip out the base64 coded part of attachments in the Unix
z file, but leave the 'boundary' lines to show that there was an
z attachment, will TB get confused by the 'boundary' lines still being
z in there, without the base64 part?

TB will show error "Cannot open file". If you click "OK", you can
still read the message.

z Last, but not least, is there a better way to manage old Bat mail :-)?

Archive (move) into a dummy account within TB. No need too figgle with
file manipulation.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.45
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re[2]: automatic customized reply templates?

[Gerd Ewald]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello A . Curtis Martin !


On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:22:02 -0500 GMT your local time,
which was 12.09.2000, 22:22 (GMT+0200) where I live, you wrote:

ACM Additionally, instead of highlighting the old template, you may also use
ACM the %CLEAR macro in your quick template. What this will do is erase
ACM everything in the message body and then apply the quick template.

ACM So for example, I've personally defined a template for software tech
ACM support with the handle name 'ts'. Whenever I wish to send a message for
ACM tech support, I click on the browser mailto: link which will generate a
ACM message addressed to tech support. I then type in the message body
ACM 'tsCTRLSpaceBar' where the default template is completely erased and
ACM replaced with the tech support one automagically. :-)

Thanks Allie. Again one of the hidden secrets (to me) which makes TB essential.

- --
Best regards,
 Gerd
==
Using The Bat! Version 1.46 Beta/3

- 
I have taken more good from alcohol than alcohol has taken from me."
 (Winston Churchill)
- 

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i
Comment: Digitally signed for authentication purposes ! Gerd Ewald

iQA/AwUBOcBqFUy/sHrVbGGHEQKiNQCfa/8cU+WIqAmOtNH1Z1shblQjMloAn15C
g06Pp3vG62z3qzm4873WYj1K
=pcR3
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Delete Attachments

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi TBUDL,

I usually have the message preview open, but when a message is more
than a two liner, or when more than one new message has arrived in one
folder, I open the View Message Folder by double-clicking on it.

Some of these messages are HTML, which is shown as an attachment, as I
have auto-view disabled. So I routinely right-click on the attachment
and delete it. It disappears from the folder view.

Having read the message, I close the folder, and there in the pre-view
pane, the attachment is still there! I have to delete it again.

Is this a bug or do I have a misconceptioon?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas 

Message created with The Bat! 1.45
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re: Delete Attachments

[A . Curtis Martin]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:09:50 +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote:

TF Some of these messages are HTML, which is shown as an attachment, as I
TF have auto-view disabled. So I routinely right-click on the attachment
TF and delete it. It disappears from the folder view.

I'm unable to delete these HTML attachments at all. :-/

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Re: Delete Attachments

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 4:09:50 AM, Thomas wrote:

 Some of these messages are HTML, which is shown as an attachment,
 as I have auto-view disabled. So I routinely right-click on the
 attachment and delete it. It disappears from the folder view.

 Having read the message, I close the folder, and there in the
 pre-view pane, the attachment is still there! I have to delete it
 again.

I think it's a bug where TB forgets to update the display. Try go to
another folder and back and they should be gone. No need to delete
twice.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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attachments opening

[Mario Fischer]

Hi!

I've got the following problem with the Bat:

Is there any way to -automatically- open attached ".msg"-files? We
receive lots of "undeliverable"-mails in our support area and it's very
annoying to open the message and double-click the ".msg"-file.

I think this would be no problem, if the ".msg"-file is plain text.
Attached ".txt"-files can be opened..

thanks in advance

-- 
MfG
 Mario Fischer   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 www.wysiwyg.de

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Wednesday, September 13, 2000, 4:47:03 PM, ztrader wrote:

 I'd like to save old mail messages in TB format.

 (1) If I do that, is it possible to save only the message file and
 not the index file? If I then try to read the message file by
 itself, will it work without the index?

Yes, TB would recreate the index. Beware though all information
stored in the index file would be lost (e.g., memo). Also remember
to compress the folder before doing that, otherwise all deleted
messages would be "undeleted". I also found doing so some (but few)
read messages would be marked unread when the index is recreated.

Since we don't know exactly what's stored in the index file, I would
advice against it, especially considering that the index file is
relatively small anyway.

 (2) The files would be renamed (date, etc added to name). If I do
 this, can this file be read back easily, or does one have to set
 up another folder for it? (I DON'T want to mix old and new
 messages at a later time - just look at old ones only).

Put the .tbb (and .tbi if you save the index file) in a directory of
its own under your "home directory" (the one with your account
information), then press ALT-CTRL-SHIFT-L in TB, and TB would "find"
the "lost" folder and add it to your folder tree.

 (3) Is it easier to save as a Unix file instead? I'd prefer this
 as I then could strip off extra headers and save a bit of space.

If you don't care all the extra information (parked, flagged,
colored, replied marks and memo, etc.) which would be lost. Also,
when you reimport the unix mailbox file, the "received date" would
be changed to the date/time when the import occurs.

 (4) In a Unix file format, what are the MINIMUM required headers
 so TB can read it OK?

The absolute minimum is the starting "From" (no colon) line, which
is used in unix mailbox format to mark the start of a message, and
in fact not part of the message header.

Generally you would at least want to save the "From:" (the real
"From" information), "To", "Date" and "Subject" fields. If you want
keep the threading, then the "References" field is necessary.

 Last, but not least, is there a better way to manage old Bat mail
 :-)?

I put old mail in a sub-folder under the regular folder (E.g., I
have a "The Bat" folder for the two mailing lists, and an "Old"
folder under it). When the sub-tree is collapsed, this "Old" folder
won't show in the folder tree pane, so no extra space is taken. It
won't take extra resources and won't slow down regular operation. It
sometimes takes a little more time to start TB should it needs to
refresh to folder message count, but it doesn't happen often for the
information should be stored in the index file (I've no idea exactly
when TB would do this). Even when that happens, the delay is hardly
noticeable (my computer is old and I've tones of old mail).

The old mail folders aren't updated everyday (I move old mail over
once per week, month, or several months, depending on the speed new
mail accumulates for a folder), so it won't take extra backup space
for my daily incremental backup.

The upside for this approach is I can easily search mail in the
parent folder (new mail) only, the sub-folder (old mail) only, or
both.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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Re[2]: Saving old mail?

[Mark R Harding]

Ming-Li,

Regarding your message dated: 14 September 2000...

 (1) If I do that, is it possible to save only the message file and
 not the index file? If I then try to read the message file by
 itself, will it work without the index?

ML Yes, TB would recreate the index.
ML ...snip...
ML Also remember to compress the folder before doing that, otherwise
ML all deleted messages would be "undeleted".

I'd like to add one 'major' consideration to this point.  As Ming-Li
noted, previously deleted messages may reappear if the folder was not
compressed before the index file was deleted.

The big warning here is that the 'Outbox' folder under TB is not set
by default to automatically compress and purge.  Normally, I have all
my folders set to 'compress and purge' when TB exits - it adds about
30 seconds to the programs close but it does keep my folders nice and
tidy.  That means I don't manually need to ask TB to perform purge and
compress myself.

However, I had omitted to change the properties of the Outbox folder
when I set the purge and compress option on my other folders. The
result?... When the index file for my Outbox folder was
deleted/lost/corrupted (still not sure exactly what happened to it) TB
happily recreated it.

Unfortunately, to my great embarrassment, that meant recreating about
30 messages which I'd already sent... and because they were then
sitting in the outbox TB happily resent them!  Regular readers here
may recall that one such message was one I'd already sent to TBUDL by
mistake so I ended up having to apologise twice for the same mistake.

Needless to say, the purge/compress flag is permanently set on my
Outbox now... just in case. :)

I believe horses have a relevant expression regarding stable doors and
bolting...

Best Wishes,

Mark

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Mark,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:50:50 +0100 GMT (14/09/2000, 21:50 +0800 GMT),
Mark R Harding wrote:

MRH The big warning here is that the 'Outbox' folder under TB is not set
MRH by default to automatically compress and purge.

Since the sent messages are copied to the Sent folder, this surprises
me on second thought. They are not, for no reason, needed to remain in
the Outbox, so one would not suspect them to be there. But yo are
right, I just checked, and all messages I ever sent are there, taking
up huge amounts of disk space of course.

MRH Normally, I have all my folders set to 'compress and purge' when
MRH TB exits - it adds about 30 seconds to the programs close

I used to that that with all folders and took up to ten minutes. The
purging cannot be cancelled, and if you hit "close" by mistakem, this
also cannot be cancelled. That's why I purgecompress manually.

MRH Needless to say, the purge/compress flag is permanently set on my
MRH Outbox now... just in case. :)

I just did that too. It's just one folder per account. ;-)

MRH I believe horses have a relevant expression regarding stable doors and
MRH bolting...

This must be an English expression...

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re[2]: Saving old mail?

[Mark R Harding]

Thomas,

Regarding your message dated: 14 September 2000...

MRH I believe horses have a relevant expression regarding stable doors and
MRH bolting...

TF This must be an English expression...

The proper expression is...

"That's like bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted."

Which loosely means that preventative measures are kind of wasted if you
wait until after the problem occurs before implementing them.  It's
normally spoken in a nice sneering sarcastic sort of tone... :)

Best wishes,

Mark.

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 Mark R Harding
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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 6:50:50 AM, Mark wrote:

 Needless to say, the purge/compress flag is permanently set on my
 Outbox now... just in case. :)

By "purge/compress" flag do you mean both the "Remove old messages"
and "Compress the folder" checkboxes or just the latter? I check
only the latter, which would physically remove deleted (including
sent) messages. I'm not sure about the former. I know it would purge
old messages according to certain conditions (keep nn messages/keep
messages for nn days), but I don't know if it would purge unsent
messages (not drafts) as well. E.g., if I set the Outbox to keep
zero message, and auto-purge on exit, then would it purge my unsent
messages upon exit?

-- 
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Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 7:35:14 AM, Mark wrote:

 The proper expression is...

 "That's like bolting the stable door after the horse has
 bolted."

There's a similar saying in Chinese, but with "sheep" instead of
horses. :)

-- 
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Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 7:05:37 AM, Thomas wrote:

MRH The big warning here is that the 'Outbox' folder under TB is
MRH not set by default to automatically compress and purge.

 Since the sent messages are copied to the Sent folder, this
 surprises me on second thought. They are not, for no reason,
 needed to remain in the Outbox, so one would not suspect them to
 be there. But yo are right, I just checked, and all messages I
 ever sent are there, taking up huge amounts of disk space of
 course.

It's because TB moves sent messages from the Outbox folder to the
Sent folder the same way it moves other messages--by copying them
over and deleting the originals (it's basically what "moving" works
in computer anyway). As any other database applications, a deletion
is in fact a "nominal" action, meaning it's marked as deleted in the
index file. A deleted message is physically removed only when a
folder is compressed. So when an index file is lost and TB recreates
it, all deleted messages naturally reappear.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Ming-Li,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:49:48 -0700 GMT (14/09/2000, 22:49 +0800 GMT),
Ming-Li wrote:

 Needless to say, the purge/compress flag is permanently set on my
 Outbox now... just in case. :)

ML E.g., if I set the Outbox to keep zero message, and auto-purge on
ML exit, then would it purge my unsent messages upon exit?

Yes, it does. "Keep zero messages" will only keep parked messages. How
about only ticking "On Exit: Compress Folder" and leaving everything
else unticked. This should get rid of deleted messages I would think.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Ming-Li,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:42:46 -0700 GMT (14/09/2000, 22:42 +0800 GMT),
Ming-Li wrote:

ML It's because TB moves sent messages from the Outbox folder to the
ML Sent folder the same way it moves other messages--by copying them
ML over and deleting the originals (it's basically what "moving" works
ML in computer anyway).

I am perfectly aware of this from a programming POV. However, from a
user's POV, my database keeps growing and growing over years and
years, and I don't even know about it.

Shouldn't the Outbox be compressed by default?

-- 

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Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM

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Re: Delete Attachments

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo A,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:31:36 -0500 GMT (14/09/2000, 19:31 +0800 GMT),
A . Curtis Martin wrote:

TF Some of these messages are HTML, which is shown as an attachment, as I
TF have auto-view disabled. So I routinely right-click on the attachment
TF and delete it. It disappears from the folder view.

ACM I'm unable to delete these HTML attachments at all. :-/

Right-click on the attachment, choose delete. Works here. Hmm.

-- 

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Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46 Beta/5
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM

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Re[2]: Saving old mail?

[Mark R Harding]

Ming-Li,

Regarding your message dated: 14 September 2000...

ML On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 6:50:50 AM, Mark wrote:

 Needless to say, the purge/compress flag is permanently set on my
 Outbox now... just in case. :)

ML By "purge/compress" flag do you mean both the "Remove old messages"
ML and "Compress the folder" checkboxes or just the latter?

Well, the truth is that I have both boxes ticked for most folders
including the Outbox.  However, by purge/compress I probably really
only refer to the latter as the necessity to rid the folder database
file of unwanted (previously sent) messages.

I rarely use the time-out or number-out options of "Keep nn messages"
or "Keep messages for nn days" except for a few mail-list folders
where I generally create a separate archive folder and only keep the
last 20 days or so of messages in the 'current' folder... this just
keeps things brisk (ito response time) when accessing folders such as
my folders for TBUDL where normally I only need to reference the most
recent messages for following recent threads and posting replies.
Only occasionally do I need to dig up some hint of info posted 12
months ago which means a trip to the archive folder instead.

I suppose I could just selectively pick what to keep but I don't
always have time to read all threads every day (and hence ctrl-m gets
a liberal use) but whilst disk-space is not an issue having the entire
history of threads since I subscribed plus a reasonable use of the
search tool I can generally dig up my own answers...

ML I check only the latter, which would physically remove deleted
ML (including sent) messages. I'm not sure about the former. I know
ML it would purge old messages according to certain conditions (keep
ML nn messages/keep messages for nn days), but I don't know if it
ML would purge unsent messages (not drafts) as well. E.g., if I set
ML the Outbox to keep zero message, and auto-purge on exit, then
ML would it purge my unsent messages upon exit?

I just did a quick experiment with this and the answer is yes.

I wrote this reply, put it in the Outbox, set Outbox prefs to keep 0
messages, exited TB.

When TB restarted the message had gone.  Luckily, I did ctrl-paste the
text into a TextPad temporarily so I didn't have to rewrite this
message ... before anyone laughs at me!

Best wishes,

Mark


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-
 Mark R Harding
 The Integrated Systems Group (Vision)
 Department of Electronics  Electrical Engineering
 The University of Edinburgh, King's Buildings, Mayfield Road
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HTML mail

[John Hinson]

Hi Folks.

I've recently started a-plating with a trial version of The Bat! It has some pretty good features and seems quite a superior product.

One feature defeats me, though. Is it possible to send HTML (styled) text? Certainly, it receives such messages fine, but I can't figure out any way to send such messages.

Even the font for your view of writing messages seems to be fixed-width only.

I know that HTML email is sometimes considered bad manners, so I hope I am not treading on any toes here.

And finally, I plead guilty. I'm writing this using a rival product (Poco) which lacks some of The Bat's features but does seem more flexible in this respect. Can you chaps convert me 100% to The Bat!?

John Hinson


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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 8:11:07 AM, Thomas wrote:

 I am perfectly aware of this from a programming POV. However, from
 a user's POV, my database keeps growing and growing over years and
 years, and I don't even know about it.

 Shouldn't the Outbox be compressed by default?

Maybe. I'm not sure. In addition to sent (and automatically deleted)
messages, there are also manually deleted messages in the Outbox,
just as any other folder. Auto-compression would purge those
messages as well. It might be what the user wants, but it might not
be. The best solution, as has been suggested before, is a place for
the user to set the default properties for all the folders.

On second thought, though, I do set the Outbox to be compressed on
exit, while I don't do that for any other folder for an extra layer
of safety. So maybe it should be set as such by default for the
Outbox.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 8:06:51 AM, Thomas wrote:

 Yes, it does. "Keep zero messages" will only keep parked messages.
 How about only ticking "On Exit: Compress Folder" and leaving
 everything else unticked. This should get rid of deleted messages
 I would think.

Ok, then that's what I've been doing all along. I was just (and
still) wondering what Mark meant by "purge/compress flag".

-- 
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Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 Beta/6 | Win2k SP1

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Re: HTML mail

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi John,

On 14 September 2000 at 16:20:17 GMT +0100 (which was 16:20 where I
live) John Hinson wrote and made these points on the subject
of "HTML mail":

JH One  feature  defeats  me,  though.  Is  it  possible to send HTML
JH ("styled")  text?  Certainly,  it receives such messages fine, but
JH Ican't figure out any way to send such messages.

While  you can (with a great deal of effort), it is not part of the TB
remit  to  cover  HTML  mail  creation.  There  are  a number of other
products  which  do this. There are also a large majority of dedicated
TB  users  who don't want TB to be able to do this. Theory states that
V2 (currently in development but not yet even in beta) will be able to
do  this. I would prefer that it didn't, but then again I get told I'm
an old dinosaur in that respect.

JH Even the font for your view of writing messages seems to be
JH fixed-width only.

Because  The  Bat  uses plain text formatting techniques which rely on
Fixed  pitch  fonts  to  work correctly. Text is the proper medium for
email and not HTML, which is intended for web browsing.

JH I know that HTML email is sometimes considered bad manners, so I
JH hope I am not treading on any toes here.

I'm afraid you are. Please refrain from posting HTML here.

JH And finally, I plead guilty. I'm writing this using a rival
JH product (Poco) which lacks some of The Bat's features but does
JH seemmore flexible in this respect. Can you chaps convert me 100%
JH to The Bat!?

The  Bat  is  the best e-mail client there is. Period. HTML is not for
e-mail - it is for presentation. You wouldn't expect TB to include all
of  WordPerfect's  capabilities  -  you would sent a WP document as an
attachment.  Thus  you  can attach a prepared HTML file to an email an
and  in  that  way  send  an  "HTML mail". I don't want to get into an
argument  about  OE and Poco and all of the others that "let you do it
properly". That doesn't make it right IMHO.

Now,  show  me  another  client  that  handles multiple accounts, with
template  facilities  like TB offers, as powerful a sorting office and
the  very  useful  ticker  and its' virtual folder for reading all new
mail. I don't believe there is one.

If you hang around, you may also discover that this list is itself yet
another asset in the TB armoury g.

Of course, the choice is yours.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 COLE'S LAW: Thinly sliced cabbage
 
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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: HTML mail

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo John,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:20:17 +0100 GMT (14/09/2000, 23:20 +0800 GMT),
John Hinson wrote:

JH One feature defeats me, though. Is it possible to send HTML
JH ("styled") text? Certainly, it receives such messages fine, but
JH Ican't figure out any way to send such messages.

TB does not have an HTML editor.

JH Even the font for your view of writing messages seems to be
JH fixed-width only.

Correct.

JH I know that HTML email is sometimes considered bad manners, so I
JH hope I am not treading on any toes here.

Actually, on this list, any attachments (including HTML) are
discouraged.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Delete Attachments

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo A,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:31:36 -0500 GMT (14/09/2000, 19:31 +0800 GMT),
A . Curtis Martin wrote:

TF Some of these messages are HTML, which is shown as an attachment, as I
TF have auto-view disabled. So I routinely right-click on the attachment
TF and delete it. It disappears from the folder view.

ACM I'm unable to delete these HTML attachments at all. :-/

Correction: I can delete .html attachments, but not .shtml attachments
(just tried with John Hinsin's message). What is this difference
about, I wonder?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:54:55PM +0100, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote:
 attachment.  Thus  you  can attach a prepared HTML file to an email an
 and  in  that  way  send  an  "HTML mail". I don't want to get into an
 argument  about  OE and Poco and all of the others that "let you do it
 properly". That doesn't make it right IMHO.

Heh, you should take a look at one of the threads on the PMMail mailing
list.  We've gone over many reasons why HTML in email shouldn't be done.  :)

 Now,  show  me  another  client  that  handles multiple accounts, with
 template  facilities  like TB offers, as powerful a sorting office and
 the  very  useful  ticker  and its' virtual folder for reading all new
 mail. I don't believe there is one.

PMMail.  Of course it doesn't have templates (which aren't used most of
the time), has better sorting and doesn't need the ticker as it has most
features available from the tray.  I call them comparable.  :P

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: New TB FAQ site

[Syafril Hermansyah]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Marck D. Pearlstone,

Responding  to  your  article on Tuesday, September 12, 2000 at 15:01:24
GMT +0100 (which was 12/09/2000 21:01 GMT +0700 my Local Time) :

MDP Since  Leif  is going off-line for a while, we have taken the decision
MDP to move the TB FAQ web site. It can now be found at the following URL:

MDP http://www.marckp.redhotant.com/thebat/faq.html

MDP Please let me know of any problems you have accessing the site or with
MDP the content.

I just make simple URL forwading, so it can be reach using this link :
http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com

- --
Best regards,

- - Syafril -


Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company: Duta Integrasi Pratama
Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Voice  : (62) (21) 385-1600
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL: http://www.dutaint.co.id


Using The Bat! 1.46
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

Created : Friday, September 15, 2000, 0:12:12 GMT +0700

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: HTML mail

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Steve,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:10:51 -0700 GMT (15/09/2000, 01:10 +0800 GMT),
Steve Lamb wrote:

SL Heh, you should take a look at one of the threads on the PMMail mailing
SL list.  We've gone over many reasons why HTML in email shouldn't be done.  :)

My main argument is always the waste of bandwidth (and that I find
emails with different fonts and colours offensive or just plain ugly,
but that's certainly a matter of taste). What other reasons are there?

SL PMMail.  Of course it doesn't have templates (which aren't used most of
SL the time),

I use them heavily. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM

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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:22:21AM +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote:
 My main argument is always the waste of bandwidth (and that I find
 emails with different fonts and colours offensive or just plain ugly,
 but that's certainly a matter of taste). What other reasons are there?

There is no standard set of HTML defined for email clients to support.
2.0, 3.0, 4.0?  XHTML 1.0?  CSS?  XML?  What should they support and what
should they /not/ support?

There is no standard set for displaying HTML from email, only for the
transport of the HTML in MIME.  

-- 
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 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: HTML mail

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Steve,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:29:02 -0700 GMT (15/09/2000, 01:29 +0800 GMT),
Steve Lamb wrote:

SL There is no standard set of HTML defined for email clients to support.

SL There is no standard set for displaying HTML from email, only for the
SL transport of the HTML in MIME.  

Thanks.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Delete Attachments

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Thomas Fernandez,

Responding  to  your article on Thursday, September 14, 2000 at 00:29:46
GMT +0800 (which was 14/09/2000 23:29 GMT +0700 my Local Time) :

TF Some of these messages are HTML, which is shown as an attachment, as I
TF have auto-view disabled. So I routinely right-click on the attachment
TF and delete it. It disappears from the folder view.

ACM I'm unable to delete these HTML attachments at all. :-/

TF Correction: I can delete .html attachments, but not .shtml attachments
TF (just tried with John Hinsin's message). What is this difference
TF about, I wonder?

Not  always, I just tried, some shtml attachment can be delete, but some
not (including John Hinsin's msg). I have no HTM attachment here, due my
office  server  here  stripping  that  out  (but  the  server  failed to
stripping out shtml too :-( )

-- 
Best regards,

- Syafril -


Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company: Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Voice  : (62) (21) 385-1600  
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL: http://www.dutaint.co.id


Using The Bat! 1.46
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

Created : Friday, September 15, 2000, 0:47:15 GMT +0700

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Re[2]: HTML mail

[Curtis Campbell]

Hello Steve,

Thursday, September 14, 2000, 1:29:02 PM, you wrote:

SL On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 01:22:21AM +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote:
 My main argument is always the waste of bandwidth (and that I find
 emails with different fonts and colours offensive or just plain ugly,
 but that's certainly a matter of taste). What other reasons are there?

SL There is no standard set of HTML defined for email clients to support.
SL 2.0, 3.0, 4.0?  XHTML 1.0?  CSS?  XML?  What should they support and what
SL should they /not/ support?

SL There is no standard set for displaying HTML from email, only for the
SL transport of the HTML in MIME.  


You know, that is what I like so much about standards.  I got so many
to choose from.

The programmers of the software that reads " HTML " have not addopted
any standards either.  So the candle has been burning at both ends for
wuite some time now.

-- 
Regards,
Curtis Campbell
PS:  I'm glad to be here, new curmudgeon on the list! Batten down your
hatches and lock up your wives!

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Re: New TB FAQ site

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Syafril Hermansyah,

Responding to your article on Friday, September 15, 2000 at 00:14:24 GMT
+0700 (which was 15/09/2000 0:14 GMT +0700 my Local Time) :


MDP Since  Leif  is going off-line for a while, we have taken the decision
MDP to move the TB FAQ web site. It can now be found at the following URL:

MDP http://www.marckp.redhotant.com/thebat/faq.html

SH I just make simple URL forwading, so it can be reach using this link :
SH http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com

I also just make simple link to the Wish List site (Konstantine's site):
http://wish.thebat.dutaint.com

-- 
Best regards,

- Syafril -


Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company: Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Voice  : (62) (21) 385-1600  
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL: http://www.dutaint.co.id


Using The Bat! 1.46
under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

Created : Friday, September 15, 2000, 1:21:11 GMT +0700

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Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[Wayne Black]

Hello Marck,

Thursday, September 14, 2000, 9:54:55 AM, you wrote:

MDP The  Bat  is  the best e-mail client there is. Period. HTML is not for
MDP e-mail - it is for presentation. You wouldn't expect TB to include all
MDP of  WordPerfect's  capabilities  -  you would sent a WP document as an
MDP attachment.  Thus  you  can attach a prepared HTML file to an email an
MDP and  in  that  way  send  an  "HTML mail". I don't want to get into an
MDP argument  about  OE and Poco and all of the others that "let you do it
MDP properly". That doesn't make it right IMHO.

MDP Now,  show  me  another  client  that  handles multiple accounts, with
MDP template  facilities  like TB offers, as powerful a sorting office and
MDP the  very  useful  ticker  and its' virtual folder for reading all new
MDP mail. I don't believe there is one.

MDP If you hang around, you may also discover that this list is itself yet
MDP another asset in the TB armoury g.

I couldn't have said it better myself!


Wayne  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Registered user features?

[Östen Häggmark]

I have been trying the Bat for some weeks, and the decision to
register the Bat was not a hard one to make. I never felt so at home
with an email-client, even if it's going to take some time to learn to
use it properly. The TBUDL-list is a very good way of doing that, I
have found out.

But as I was looking into the "How to register" page I noticed the
line "use features available only for registered users."

I can't find any references to these features. Of course there already
are more features than I can use, but now that I'm registered, at
least it would be fun to know which they are :-)

-- 
Regards,
 Östen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
 Sthlm, Sweden
 TB! 1.45, Windows 98

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Global Kill File Inquiry

[Curtis Campbell]

Ok, since I am new here, and yes, I have looked at the help file, the
FAQ, and somewhere along the line I must be missing the concept or
something...

What is the best way to set up a global kill file?  One that I can add
to once, and it kills globally accross all accounts?  Is it possible?

-- 
Regards,
Curtis

"A, so you represent Earth's _best_ then?" - Balok
Using The Bat! - Version 1.46 - On A Computer!
I didn't know flying rodents could read mail! - :-)



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Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:55:09PM -0700, David Tod Sigafoos wrote:
 And why shouldnt email be presentable?  

Email /is/ presentable.  It doesn't need HTML for that.  

 What is it about HTML that scares people so much.  

The fact there is no standard for displaying it, what standard does exist
is for browsers and no two browsers display correctly.  On top of that 99% of
the time it is completely annoying because it overrides how /I/ like to see my
mail.  I don't want to see it in someone else's preferences, I want to see it
in mine.

 Having the ability to send a message to our users with a toc at the
 beginning of the note and links to other spots in the note is a great
 feature.

Search does that just fine.
 
 Isn't going to happen.  AND if you want TB to be successful and always
 be at the top of the reviews it will be an important add-on.  

Please, why do people insist on trotting out this tripe?  It is the top
/NOW/ because it works nicely as an email /CLIENT/, not as a browser, not as
an html page editor.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
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Message templates (again)

[Marcel]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello everyone,

I've been following the discussion about the message templates and
off course I started to work on my own templates right away.

The option Marck told us was a great one.
Using templates for the e-mail addresses.

So I started to work on the reply messages, but whatever I tried to
do, every time I replied to a message, I got a blank screen, and none
of the templates where used.

I deleted the templates from the account, after that I deleted the
folder templates, so now I only have the template from the address
itself, but it still doesn't appear.

I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.

Does The Bat use a specific order to use the template, like:
First look if there is a template in the address, if there isn't then
look for a template in the folder and last but not least get the
template from the account.

Hope you can help me.

Thanx


Cheers,
Marcel

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i
Comment: Public key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=pgpkeyrequest

iQA/AwUBOcEqeptVOcettUE+EQIGbwCfbDKCuhFXARXbisiDv4uRLAfUy6cAnjb2
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Re: Saving old mail?

[Peter Steiner]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:27:51 -0700, Ming-Li wrote:

 (3) Is it easier to save as a Unix file instead? I'd prefer this
 as I then could strip off extra headers and save a bit of space.

ML If you don't care all the extra information (parked, flagged,
ML colored, replied marks and memo, etc.) which would be lost. Also,
ML when you reimport the unix mailbox file, the "received date" would
ML be changed to the date/time when the import occurs.

While the extra info really is lost (why not put some X-Bat-Flag
header into the messages when exporting?), the received time should be
correct (starting with version 1.42).

Regards

Peter
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Re: Saving old mail?

[Peter Steiner]

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:47:03 -0700, ztrader wrote:

z (5) If I strip out the base64 coded part of attachments in the Unix
z file, but leave the 'boundary' lines to show that there was an
z attachment, will TB get confused by the 'boundary' lines still being
z in there, without the base64 part?

To be sure that TB! doesn't get confused, replace the little header
just after the boundary line with

  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(or maybe charset=ISO-8859-1 or whatever and ...encoding: 8bit)
After these two lines leave an empty line and then you can put as many
commentary lines ("here was attachment xxx.yyy which i have deleted")
as you wish.

Regards

Peter
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Re[2]: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[David Tod Sigafoos]

Hello Steve,

Thursday, September 14, 2000, 1:01:28 PM, you wrote:

SL On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 12:55:09PM -0700, David Tod Sigafoos wrote:
 And why shouldnt email be presentable?  

SL Email /is/ presentable.  It doesn't need HTML for that.  

Who says?  Who is the leading authority on what email needs or doesn't
need?

 What is it about HTML that scares people so much.  

SL The fact there is no standard for displaying it, what standard does exist
SL is for browsers and no two browsers display correctly.

True .. there is no 'definitive' standard.  But 99% of HTML (not
dhtml, xhtml etc) is compatible.

SL On top of that 99% of the time it is completely annoying because
SL it overrides how /I/ like to see my mail. I don't want to see it
SL in someone else's preferences, I want to see it in mine.

I'm not sure what this means.  Do you mean if i write a letter and
format it as i desire (using regular underline, bold etc) the


 Having the ability to send a message to our users with a toc at the
 beginning of the note and links to other spots in the note is a great
 feature.

SL Search does that just fine.

So is USPD but ..
 
SL Please, why do people insist on trotting out this tripe?  It is the top
SL /NOW/ because it works nicely as an email /CLIENT/, not as a browser, not as
SL an html page editor.

Tripe .. that's a fish isn't it?


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Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:02:57PM -0700, David Tod Sigafoos wrote:
 Who says?  Who is the leading authority on what email needs or doesn't
 need?

Indeed.  So why are you saying that it needs HTML?

 True .. there is no 'definitive' standard.  But 99% of HTML (not
 dhtml, xhtml etc) is compatible.

*chuckle*  What does CENTER/CENTER do in HTML 4.0?

-- 
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Re[2]: HTML mail

[ztrader]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 10:10:51 AM, you wrote:

SL  has better sorting

What is better?

ztrader

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Re: Moving to new Computer

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Katsmeow,

On 14 September 2000 at 12:52:56 GMT -0500 (which was 18:52 where I
live) Katsmeow wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Moving to new Computer":

K I am taking delivery of a new notebook computer in a couple of days.
K It is running Windows ME.

K What do I need to do to move TB! to the new computer?

You need a backup of the entire Mail folder structure and content. You
also  need  a  backup  of  the  TB registry data. On your new machine,
unpack  the mail folder data (NB it is best to stick to the same drive
letter  /  folder  as  was used on the old computer), load up the .reg
settings into the registry, install TB and enjoy :-).

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 Kids Stuff:
A vibration is a motion that cannot make up
its mind which way it wants to go.
 
 TB! v1.46 Beta/6 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness!

iQA/AwUBOcFQ0TnkJKuSnc2gEQIaaACg1XeltsYNS0hTN+Ev9J1hMlHoA7wAmwbG
bIqv5TRPRRcyIWbHFgMdxPg5
=PlE6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: Saving old mail?

[ztrader]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 1:49:42 PM, you wrote:

PS To be sure that TB! doesn't get confused, replace the little header
PS just after the boundary line with

PS   Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
PS   Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

PS After these two lines leave an empty line and then you can put as many
PS commentary lines ("here was attachment xxx.yyy which i have deleted")
PS as you wish.

Good idea - thanks for the tip. THis is done by a program, not 'me',
so it would not have notes (unless I come up with a really smart
program :-).

ztrader

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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:26:33PM -0700, ztrader wrote:
 On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 10:10:51 AM, you wrote:
 
 SL  has better sorting
 
 What is better?

That is not enough context to go by.

-- 
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Re[2]: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[ztrader]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 12:55:09 PM, you wrote:

DTS What is it about HTML that
DTS scares people so much.

Doesn't scare me at all - just a PITA :-).

DTS It does not mean that I could put a jscript in
DTS a message and nuke your system (well unless you run a windows product
DTS :-).

Security is a big issue for me - hard to put something bad in just
text :-). Can't wait for all the new extensions - neither can the
hacker kid down the streetg.

DTS I cant understand the bandwidth argument.

I store messages of interest in a data base. Adding 12,000 bytes to a
970 byte message (the REAL content) takes up a lot of space.

DTS Having the ability to send a message to our users with a toc at the
DTS beginning of the note and links to other spots in the note is a great
DTS feature.

Why not put in a link as text - works OK.

DTS So why not just have it optional.  Do you think that because some TB
DTS users don't like HTML it will stop?

Of course not - there are way too many people who value flash over
content. Besides, as we dumb-down the population, the pictures will
become even more important :-). "Mommy, what's a book?"

DTS Isn't going to happen.  AND if you want TB to be successful and always
DTS be at the top of the reviews it will be an important add-on.

If you want flash, get another product. I abandoned them to get TB
because it concentrates on things relating to CONTENT, not 'flash'.
Keep improving that, and keep security in mind, and it will be an even
better product. 

DTS In fact
DTS .. maybe it could be a add-on.

I'd rather the developers concentrate on things relating to CONTENT,
not 'flash'. No bloatware, please.

DTS I do have one question though.  When email started there was no bold,
DTS underline etc.  Should these simple features be removed?

Naaahhh - just use *this* for emphasis :-). I take it you understand
what that means, no?

ztrader

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PGP woes

[Aaron]

Hello TBUDL,

Can someone tell me where to get thebatpgp60.dll from?

I can't get this PGP thing to work unless I use only the internal PGP.

Right now I am downloading:
PGPFW658Win32.zip and PGP_Desktop_Security_7.0.zip

I hope that the plugin is among this 16Mb of files.


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Best regards,
 Aaron   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- [The Bat! v145] 

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Re: HTML mail

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:10:51 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

 Now,  show  me  another  client  that  handles multiple accounts, with
 template  facilities  like TB offers, as powerful a sorting office and
 the  very  useful  ticker  and its' virtual folder for reading all new
 mail. I don't believe there is one.

SL PMMail. Of course it doesn't have templates (which aren't used most
SL of the time),

I use templates so heavily and they're so effective that I simply cannot
do without them now. My mail management would change significantly.

SL has better sorting and doesn't need the ticker as it has most
SL features available from the tray. I call them comparable. :P

cough PMMail as a straightforward multi-account e-mail system is
comparable. Once you start moving to advanced features, PMMail in
general becomes a shadow of TB!. I used PMMail for a longer time than
I've been using TB!. :-)

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "A statement of fact cannot be insolent. - Orac "

Using TB! v1.46 Beta/5 «» Win2k Pro SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOcFYSvAXeSHuB5k3EQJmhwCgvepyskrL+1Smh5r0OlQt3HuznDsAn1i0
dXxWcdUAcrEsK0X4+X8yjz/k
=E9Bn
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: HTML mail

[ztrader]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 3:30:04 PM, you wrote:

SL On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:26:33PM -0700, ztrader wrote:
 On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 10:10:51 AM, you wrote:
 SL  has better sorting
 What is better?
SL That is not enough context to go by.

For example, can it do numeric weighting for sorting (if 'zzz' is in
the body, add +100 to ProbableSpam variable, and so on...)? Can it
sort, then place headers in the mail, then resort to refine the
sorting? Can it compare a file of 1-line text strings against the
From: header and see if there are any matches?

Any of these would be improvements over TB.

What sorting functions or operations does it do better?

I'm always interested in better sorting :-).

ztrader

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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 05:59:22PM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote:
 cough PMMail as a straightforward multi-account e-mail system is
 comparable. Once you start moving to advanced features, PMMail in
 general becomes a shadow of TB!. I used PMMail for a longer time than
 I've been using TB!. :-)

Aside from templates what does TB! really do better?

PMMail has nicer filtering, better PGP implementation, better overall UI
(as in easier to use), is more logically laid out, etc.  

They both have their strengths and weaknesses.
 
-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:02:57 -0700, David Tod Sigafoos wrote:

snip
SL On top of that 99% of the time it is completely annoying because
SL it overrides how /I/ like to see my mail. I don't want to see it
SL in someone else's preferences, I want to see it in mine.

DTS I'm not sure what this means.  Do you mean if i write a letter and
DTS format it as i desire (using regular underline, bold etc) the

When I view HTML mail, I see it with the background colour, image set by
the sender and also the font and font-size set by the sender. The font
is invariably too small for my preference. This is a very major negative
for it's routine use for me.

At least when I browse the net and read the webpages, the font sizes are
decent and readable (as I set it to be). :-)

Be that as it may, I have no problem with the occasional HTML message
when appropriate and the occasion arises. It's the abuse that irks me.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "Oxymoron: Sweet Pickle. "

Using TB! v1.46 Beta/5 «» Win2k Pro SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOcFZ6PAXeSHuB5k3EQL0NQCggub9z5qbdbW9mboC9WVKp5vK6ZAAoNkg
xuiCz6repZPmI9AN5gZUbtFn
=O5LC
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Global Kill File Inquiry

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:58:26 -0400, Curtis Campbell wrote:

CC Ok, since I am new here, and yes, I have looked at the help file, the
CC FAQ, and somewhere along the line I must be missing the concept or
CC something...

CC What is the best way to set up a global kill file?  One that I can add
CC to once, and it kills globally accross all accounts?  Is it possible?

As far as I can tell, you cannot do this. Each account has it's own set
of filters. But you have touched on a good point here in that it's very
likely that one would want kill-filters to act globally.

There's no easy way to copy single or multiple filter rules to other
accounts as well. :-( However, it's a feature that has been requested.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "Oxymoron: Whole Half. "

Using TB! v1.46 Beta/5 «» Win2k Pro SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOcFbovAXeSHuB5k3EQLn3wCgkkVXXu5hAQTuOxouQueA+5t2oZkAmwbR
mgfLJlYWZJg07AA1QyIduv9O
=uc18
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:03:20PM -0700, ztrader wrote:
 What sorting functions or operations does it do better?

The layout and accessability is generally better in PMMail.  With TB! the
configuration of filters is quite cryptic.  With PMMial it is straightforward
in basic mode and quite nice with limited scripting capabilities in advanced
mode.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: Registered user features?

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:54:37 +0200, Östen Häggmark wrote:

ÖH I have been trying the Bat for some weeks, and the decision to
ÖH register the Bat was not a hard one to make. I never felt so at home
ÖH with an email-client, even if it's going to take some time to learn
ÖH to use it properly. The TBUDL-list is a very good way of doing that,
ÖH I have found out.

That's nice to hear. I hope you'll feel even better about this as time
goes by. TB! is a great client with a lot of personality, ie, it's own
quirks and unique style in certain respects. :-)

ÖH But as I was looking into the "How to register" page I noticed the
ÖH line "use features available only for registered users."

I always thought the unregistered version was fully functional. Hmmm.
Anyone know of the unregistered version of TB! being crippled in any
way?

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "Even in this corner of the galaxy, Captain, 2+2=4 ... Spock "

Using TB! v1.46 Beta/5 «» Win2k Pro SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOcFccPAXeSHuB5k3EQIFmgCfbSBtTFr1abzIC5LFq/T4iTpmPB0An3sD
D7J+AyGMlgBdduF02RmleRDG
=DThk
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: HTML mail

[ztrader]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 4:02:43 PM, you wrote:

SL PMMail has nicer filtering,

Oops - there's that word again :-). I'm very interested in good
filtering. What does PMM do better re filtering?

ztrader

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Re: Registered user features?

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello,


On  Thursday, September 14, 2000  at  18:17:04 GMT -0500 (which was 4:17 PM
where I live) witnesses say A . Curtis Martin typed:

ÖH But as I was looking into the "How to register" page I noticed the
ÖH line "use features available only for registered users."

 I always thought the unregistered version was fully functional. Hmmm.
 Anyone know of the unregistered version of TB! being crippled in any
 way?

 That's what I thought too.  Unfortunately, by the time most people
 discover the full power of TB, they've been long registered users.

 I think the only thing that's crippled is the startup screen.  The
 other thing I noticed is that unregistered users have the Serial
 Number displayed in the Mailer header.

 


-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 See header for e-mail address

 Using The Bat! 1.46
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: PGP woes

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Aaron,

On 14 September 2000 at 08:57:30 GMT +1000 (which was 23:57 where I
live) Aaron wrote and made these points on the subject
of "PGP woes":

A Can someone tell me where to get thebatpgp60.dll from?

The  file  is  tbpgp60.dll but you really want tbpgp65.dll. All of the
pgp dlls are available in a zip archive from the RITLABS ftp site.

A I can't get this PGP thing to work unless I use only the internal PGP.

A Right now I am downloading:
A PGPFW658Win32.zip and PGP_Desktop_Security_7.0.zip

A I hope that the plugin is among this 16Mb of files.

It isn't because it's RIT's own.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 How do I set a laser printer to stun?
 
 TB! v1.46 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness!

iQA/AwUBOcFeUDnkJKuSnc2gEQIhqACfQkxM7WZ9QPV4JMA0pIztUR9rKloAn1oc
8xH6YMFc/UAiQAaPr3TxeJCZ
=p0O/
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: HTML mail

[ztrader]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 4:14:06 PM, you wrote:

SL With TB! the
SL configuration of filters is quite cryptic.

I'd have to agree there, although good help files and examples could
have answered many of the questions I had.

SL limited scripting capabilities in advanced
SL mode.

Hey - now you're talking. How can I find out more about the scripting?
Does it really do useful things?

ztrader

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Re[2]: Moving to new Computer

[katsmeow]

Hi Marck,

Thursday, September 14, 2000, 5:27:29 PM, tbUDL wrote regarding Moving to new Computer:


MDP You need a backup of the entire Mail folder structure and content.

Is this simply making a copy of it or something else. I can copy the
info onto a CD.

MDP You
MDP also  need  a  backup  of  the  TB registry data.

How do I do this?

MDP On your new machine,
MDP unpack  the mail folder data

Is unpacking something more than simply copying the data into the
appropriate directory.

MDP
MDP  load up the .reg
MDP settings into the registry

And, I do this how?  Sorry for the simple (minded) questions.  I've
edited the registry before but never copied something in the registry
from one computer to another.


MDP  install TB and enjoy :-)

I will!



-- 
Best regards,
 katsmeow  http://www.netcom.com/~kvickers
 Using The Bat! 1.46 Beta/5
under Windows 98 4.10 Build
1998  

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Re: Registered user features?

[Dieter Hummel]

Hello Listmembers,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 at 18:17:04 [GMT -0500] A. Curtis Martin wrote:

 I always thought the unregistered version was fully functional. Hmmm.
 Anyone know of the unregistered version of TB! being crippled in any
 way?

Not  crippled  in any way. Even if some report the opposite... The eval
version   stops   working  after  the  trial  period  but  offers  full
functionality until the date of expiration.

Regards
Dieter

__
TheBat! 1.46 [2E7F60DA] on Windows v5.0 Build 2195 SP1 

-- 
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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 04:36:12PM -0700, ztrader wrote:
 I'd have to agree there, although good help files and examples could
 have answered many of the questions I had.

Even with help I'm afraid the filtering is just poorly laid out.

 SL limited scripting capabilities in advanced
 SL mode.
 
 Hey - now you're talking. How can I find out more about the scripting?
 Does it really do useful things?

Mainly just logic control.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
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Re: HTML mail

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:02:43 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:

 cough PMMail as a straightforward multi-account e-mail system is
 comparable. Once you start moving to advanced features, PMMail in
 general becomes a shadow of TB!. I used PMMail for a longer time than
 I've been using TB!. :-)

SL Aside from templates what does TB! really do better?

You're asking me to put aside, perhaps, the single most significant
reason why I use TB! over PMMail. I cannot just put it aside like that
and continue the argument. :-)

Oh, I got my hands on a pro version of PMMail and went through it's PGP
implementation. It's different from TB!'s and it does some things
better. TB! also does some things better with PGP as well. :-)

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "Hell, if you understood everything I said, you'd be me! "

Using TB! v1.46 Beta/5 «» Win2k Pro SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOcFg9/AXeSHuB5k3EQJabgCeJxV5WE2rGpgxQvZgTKX/Q6c+J4UAnRt3
caX3vsrCCbLmzaiNqxzssr/4
=Fkrj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Filtering - a big wish

[ztrader]

For the wish list:

A way to be able to run a script file on a message to do sorting,
instead of having built-in functions that get more and more complex.
Procmail, for example, can be made to do fantastic things with mail -
even if all the functionality of procmail can't be done, a subset
would be a major improvement.

Or perhaps perl or VB might be used. The idea is to run a
script/program instead of placing information in boxes.

This would not necessarily replace the boxes, as RE's have not
replaced the boxes, but would give a very powerful capability to TB.

Just a thought...

ztrader

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Re: Message templates (again)

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:43:37 +0200, Marcel wrote:

M I've been following the discussion about the message templates and
M off course I started to work on my own templates right away.

M The option Marck told us was a great one.
M Using templates for the e-mail addresses.

M So I started to work on the reply messages, but whatever I tried to
M do, every time I replied to a message, I got a blank screen, and none
M of the templates where used.

The message to which you are replying has to have a recipient address
that corresponds with that of the address book entry for which you have
defined the template.

M I deleted the templates from the account, after that I deleted the
M folder templates, so now I only have the template from the address
M itself, but it still doesn't appear.

M I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.

There's most likely an address mismatch in that the address defined the
To: field is not the same as that defined in the address book entry for
which you have created templates.

M Does The Bat use a specific order to use the template,

Yes it does. It will use address book entry specific templates in
preference to address book group based templates. Address book templates
are always used in preference to folder templates. If there's still no
match, then the default template is used.

M First look if there is a template in the address, if there isn't then
M look for a template in the folder and last but not least get the
M template from the account.

Exactly! :-)

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey
- ---
** "Xerox never comes up with anything original anymore. "

Using TB! v1.46 Beta/5 «» Win2k Pro SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOcFelfAXeSHuB5k3EQJFZACfapE4RfnmrSFokpbDWylfA/Nh4QcAoP6r
G4jjEtVwGOGWyXWNo7zrhTbZ
=hUjg
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: HTML mail

[Steve Lamb]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 06:36:23PM -0500, A . Curtis Martin wrote:
 You're asking me to put aside, perhaps, the single most significant
 reason why I use TB! over PMMail. I cannot just put it aside like that
 and continue the argument. :-)

That's the point.  You use templates extensively, I hardly use them at
all.  Templates are just another feature.  PMMail has features that TB!
does not.  To me that means they work out in the end.

 Oh, I got my hands on a pro version of PMMail and went through it's PGP
 implementation. It's different from TB!'s and it does some things
 better. TB! also does some things better with PGP as well. :-)

Aside from choosing different DLLs, what?  PMMail's automatically decrypts
each time so there is no need for a clear copy, automatically checks
signatures instead of forcing the user to ask for it and correctly chooses the
proper key based on account.  TB! just implements the most basic and
piss-poor, I might add, dialogs from the PGP DLLs itself with no automation
and no attempt to fix the glaring problems it has.

-- 
 Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
 ICQ: 5107343  | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
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Re[2]: Global Kill File Inquiry

[Curtis Campbell]

Hello A,
Thursday, September 14, 2000, 7:13:38 PM, you wrote:

ACM As far as I can tell, you cannot do this. Each account has it's own set
ACM of filters. But you have touched on a good point here in that it's very
ACM likely that one would want kill-filters to act globally.
ACM There's no easy way to copy single or multiple filter rules to other
ACM accounts as well. :-( However, it's a feature that has been requested.

Then I guess is it's just a matter of time before we see something
like this.  So I'll bide my time, and pray the next minor revision
number includes it. :-)

In the meantime, I really cant get over how similar some of The Bat!
is to MSGED Of FTSC-001 fame...   Yes I know the roots are there
as well, and I am an old timer too..  1:233/whatever it was.

-- 
Regards,
Curtis

They were forced to eat Robin's minstrel,and there was much rejoicing.

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Virtual folder

[Vladimir Mincev]

Hello Marck,

Thursday, September 14, 2000, 6:54:55 PM, you wrote:

MDP Now,  show  me  another  client  that  handles multiple accounts, with
MDP template  facilities  like TB offers, as powerful a sorting office and
MDP the  very  useful  ticker  and its' virtual folder for reading all new
 ^^ - what do you mean by virtual 
folder?
MDP mail. I don't believe there is one.

I am using The Bat! for a while but I still don't know what is a
virtual folder (or is it *view* folder you mean by saying *virtual*?)
and how to use it... I looked in help (index and find) but with no
success... Please tell me more about it.

-- 
Best regards,
 Vladimirmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Saving old mail?

[Jack LaRosa]

Hello Mark,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:12:27 +0100 GMT your local time, which was
Thursday, September 14, 2000, 10:12:27 AM (GMT-6) my local time,
you wrote:


MRH Ming-Li,

MRH Regarding your message dated: 14 September 2000...

ML On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 6:50:50 AM, Mark wrote:

 Needless to say, the purge/compress flag is permanently set on my
 Outbox now... just in case. :)

ML By "purge/compress" flag do you mean both the "Remove old messages"
ML and "Compress the folder" checkboxes or just the latter?

MRH Well, the truth is that I have both boxes ticked for most folders
MRH including the Outbox.  However, by purge/compress I probably really
MRH only refer to the latter as the necessity to rid the folder database
MRH file of unwanted (previously sent) messages.
snip--
snip--
ML I check only the latter, which would physically remove deleted
ML (including sent) messages. I'm not sure about the former. I know
ML it would purge old messages according to certain conditions (keep
ML nn messages/keep messages for nn days), but I don't know if it
ML would purge unsent messages (not drafts) as well. E.g., if I set
ML the Outbox to keep zero message, and auto-purge on exit, then
ML would it purge my unsent messages upon exit?

MRH I just did a quick experiment with this and the answer is yes.

MRH I wrote this reply, put it in the Outbox, set Outbox prefs to keep 0
MRH messages, exited TB.

MRH When TB restarted the message had gone.  Luckily, I did ctrl-paste the
MRH text into a TextPad temporarily so I didn't have to rewrite this
MRH message ... before anyone laughs at me!

I just looked at the preferences for my outbox and I have both the
"Remove old messages" and "Compress the folder" boxes checked. The
"keep nn messages/keep messages for nn days" boxes are set to zero. I
frequently leave messages in the outbox simply because I forgot to
send them. They are *not* saved as drafts and always reappear the next
time I start TB!. They *are* sent (without a status change) when I
remember to send them.

Apparently for me, they are purged *only* after they are sent.


-- 
Sincerely,
Jack LaRosamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alabama, USA

Message created 7:10:39 PM  (GMT-6) on Thursday, September 14, 2000

=
Using The Bat! ver. 1.45 (reg)
under Windows 98  ver.4.10  build   Service Pack  A 
=



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Re: PGP woes (thanks)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Aaron,

On 15 September 2000 at 09:59:11 GMT +1000 (which was 00:59 where I
live) Aaron wrote and made these points on the subject
of "PGP woes (thanks)":

A Well it seems to be working now, BTW I copied the DLL into The Bat!
A directory...that is OK?

Perfect - that's where mine is.

A At any rate The Bat! found it.

A Thanks again for the swift reply, good on ya!

My pleasure.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 Kids Stuff:
To most people solutions mean finding the answers.
But to chemists solutions are things that are still
all mixed up.
 
 TB! v1.46 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness!

iQA/AwUBOcF0dznkJKuSnc2gEQJU8ACgii5+IvPWb+C3aeHE+krcAscE9YoAn2gE
AxCpSnJB5YVA+kqp0ysR738n
=oHpR
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Moving to new Computer

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi katsmeow,

On 15 September 2000 at 18:40:05 GMT -0500 (which was 00:40 where I
live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject
of "Moving to new Computer":

MDP You need a backup of the entire Mail folder structure and content.

kinc Is this simply making a copy of it or something else. I can copy
kinc the info onto a CD.

That  would  do it ... or a ZIP disk or spanned floppy compressed file
or  Network hook up. A backup of some description. I copy over the LAN
myself.

MDP You also need a backup of the TB registry data.

kinc How do I do this?

Either  with  regedit  long hand or from the command line or by use of
the  batch  file  published  on this very list last week on the 9th of
September in a message frm Januk Aggarwal.

Here's a DOS command to do it:

regedit /e d:\TargetPath\tbreg.reg HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\RIT


And here's the batch file (again)

- Begin Backup Batch file

@echo off
rem Written by Januk Aggarwal
cls
echo Welcome to your The Bat! Registry Backup program.
echo.
echo  ___
echo *   *
echo *1. Back up my registry NOW!!   *
echo *2. Don't you dare!  Get me outta here! *
echo *   *
echo *___*
echo.
choice /c:12
if errorlevel 2 goto end
if errorlevel 1 goto begin

:begin
echo.
echo Good choice, I'm just checking for previous backup attempts.
echo.
echo.
if not exist TBbckup2.reg goto continue
echo Your previous backup is being stored in TBbckup2.reg
echo.
if exist TBbckup1.reg del TBbckup2.reg

:continue
if exist TBbckup1.reg rename TBbckup1.reg TBbckup2.reg
start /w regedit /e TBbckup1.reg "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\RIT\The Bat!"
echo.
if not exist TBbckup1.reg echo Error!  Something went wrong.  Backup not successful.
if exist TBbckup1.reg echo Success! Your registry entries for The Bat! are backed up!
echo.

:end
echo.
echo Thank you for using this backup utility.
echo.
exit

- End Backup Batch file

MDP On your new machine, unpack the mail folder data

kinc Is unpacking something more than simply copying the data into the
kinc appropriate directory.

Yes  .. or unpacking from a rar file or floppy disk spanned archive or
whatever backup medium you have used to copy the data.

MDP  load up the .reg settings into the registry

kinc And, I do this how?

Double-click  on  the  .reg  file  that was exported from the registry
using one of the three methods above.

kinc Sorry for the simple (minded) questions. I've edited the
kinc registry before but never copied something in the registry from
kinc one computer to another.

That's  okay.  I'll  have  to check the FAQ and see if we can add this
sequence to it clearly.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY ]

 Headline - Lung Cancer in Women Mushrooms
 
 TB! v1.46 S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness!

iQA/AwUBOcF36DnkJKuSnc2gEQIo3gCeNBzV7UOUQy114zkpV1BMIHCsSZEAoP4j
QU5hwE1NY55qcUs8kblZyOk5
=R31s
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Compress on exit

[katsmeow]

I just discovered that emptying the trash on exit does not really
delete the messages and that they aren't deleted until compressed.
OK.  Fine.  I went in and ran compress and everything is fine.

However, if I wanted to chance my settings so that all messages in all
folders would be compressed on exit is there a way to globally set
this preference in all folders or must I go to all 300+ folders and
set this preference for each folder?


  

-- 
 
Best regards,
 katsmeow   http://www.netcom.com/~kvickers  
 Using The Bat! 1.46 Beta/5
under Windows 98 4.10 Build
1998  



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Re: Compress on exit

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello katsmeow,


On  Thursday, September 14, 2000  at  21:43:49 GMT -0500 (which was 7:43 PM
where I live) witnesses say [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:

 I just discovered that emptying the trash on exit does not really
 delete the messages and that they aren't deleted until compressed.
 OK.  Fine.  I went in and ran compress and everything is fine.

 However, if I wanted to chance my settings so that all messages in all
 folders would be compressed on exit is there a way to globally set
 this preference in all folders or must I go to all 300+ folders and
 set this preference for each folder?

 Unfortunately, you'll have to do this on a folder by folder basis.
 It is easy to set up when you create new folders, unfortunately many
 people don't realize the benefits of these settings until they have a
 large folder structure.  I believe a better folder management utility
 has been requested.


-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal
 See header for e-mail address

 Using The Bat! 1.46
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Jack,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:21:32 -0500GMT (15/09/2000, 08:21 +0800GMT),
Jack LaRosa wrote:

JL I just looked at the preferences for my outbox and I have both the
JL "Remove old messages" and "Compress the folder" boxes checked. The
JL "keep nn messages/keep messages for nn days" boxes are set to zero.

But they checkboxes are not ticked, are they?

JL Apparently for me, they are purged *only* after they are sent.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Re: Replying to your message dated Thursday, September 14, 2000, at 9:54 AM

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi David,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:55:09 -0700GMT (15/09/2000, 03:55 +0800GMT),
David Tod Sigafoos wrote under a rather weird and non-descrptive
subject:

MDP The  Bat  is  the best e-mail client there is. Period. HTML is not for
MDP e-mail - it is for presentation.

DTS And why shouldnt email be presentable?

Email is a medium to communicate facts and ideas. A presentation is a
sales tool. See: Powerpoint.

An email becomes presentable by using sensible paragraphs and so on;
the stuff our elders learned at school. I understand single-paragraphs
going over one page, or email all written in caps, are not
presentable; neither are those that heavily use colours, bold/italics,
little pictures and different font sizes. These things distract. I
keep telling my staff that those little thingies are for private
email, or for special announcements ("Our office will be closed for
Chinese New Year from.. to...").

DTS What is it about HTML that scares people so much.

Visual noise, bandwidth increased by some 150%.

DTS I cant understand the bandwidth argument.

Try downloading at around 1Kps.

DTS Unless I am missing something .. if you receive a message with
DTS html doesn't it require the same bandwidth as an attachment as if
DTS you display. The only exception to this would be the 'get' of
DTS images etc.

Right. don't send attachments untless necessary. Holds true for HTML
as well as .wav files or these nice jokes in .gif format taking up
over 1MB. Spare me.

DTS Having the ability to send a message to our users with a toc at the
DTS beginning of the note and links to other spots in the note is a great
DTS feature.

What is TOC? And can't you get your recipient's attention just by
saying something meaningfull in a way that is not boring? Do you
really need eye-catchers?

and, links do works in plain text emails.

DTS So why not just have it optional.

Because we want the developers concentrate on continuing to
concentrate on further deveoping what we think is maybe the best email
client, not on an HTML editor. Because HTML is really not necessary
for email, even though MS and AOL think otherwise and the sheep
follow.

DTS Do you think that because some TB users don't like HTML it will
DTS stop?

No. :-(

DTS Isn't going to happen.  AND if you want TB to be successful

TB is not targeted to the mass market.

DTS and always be at the top of the reviews it will be an important
DTS add-on. In fact .. maybe it could be a add-on.

Plug-ins will be possible in v2. I see no objection if someone writes
an HTML editor. I can choose not to use it. g

DTS I do have one question though.  When email started there was no bold,
DTS underline etc.  Should these simple features be removed?

I don't use these features now, and I see no reason what they should
be used for. If you need eye-catchers to make your message readible
without the reader falling asleep, you might want to look into your
writing style. No, this is not just my opinion; I actually learned
this at school.  ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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Cookies....

[Vinay Kudithipudi]

Hello Batties :),
  I have a quick question. Some of the quotes in my cookies file
are too long. And when they are included in my letter, they tend to
get too long. Is ther any way to justify them when they are inserted
in the letter? Than you...

-- 
Warm regards,
 Vinay  mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This letter was written at 11:07:41 PM on Thursday, September 14, 2000

-=|| "The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your 
action." -Anon?  ||=-

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Re: Saving old mail?

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 1:56:31 PM, Peter wrote:

 While the extra info really is lost (why not put some X-Bat-Flag
 header into the messages when exporting?), the received time
 should be correct (starting with version 1.42).

Indeed, my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Delete Attachments

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, September 14, 2000, 9:29:46 AM, Thomas wrote:

 Correction: I can delete .html attachments, but not .shtml
 attachments (just tried with John Hinsin's message). What is this
 difference about, I wonder?

You can't delete the html attachment in John Hinsin's message
because it isn't an attachment at all. Take a look at the source and
you'll find a html-only message, not the usual plain text/html
hybrid. Most email client send html messages (if they do that at
all) would send one as a multipart message with a plain text part
and html part, so it can be viewed with plain text-only email
clients. Not this one.

It seems like TB has a unknown (to me, at least) feature that
"convert" such a message on the fly and present a plain text version
if the "HTML Auto-View" isn't enabled. Not sure what happens if it's
a html-only message with graphics, though (John's is all text).

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Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.46 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Delete Attachments

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Ming-Li,

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:28:29 -0700GMT (15/09/2000, 12:28 +0800GMT),
Ming-Li wrote:

ML You can't delete the html attachment in John Hinsin's message
ML because it isn't an attachment at all.

I was told this about "normal" HTML messages earlier, too. But now I
can delete them.

ML Take a look at the source and you'll find a html-only message, not
ML the usual plain text/html hybrid.

Got your point. No multipart/alternative, either.

ML It seems like TB has a unknown (to me, at least) feature that
ML "convert" such a message on the fly and present a plain text version
ML if the "HTML Auto-View" isn't enabled.

Nice feature, then. How about this: if I click on "delete the
attachment", the message would be converted into this plian-text
version? In that case, it would be transparent to the user whether
it's a "real" attachment or not. Saved would be the plain-text message
as desired.

ML Not sure what happens if it's a html-only message with graphics,
ML though (John's is all text).

I'd be interested too.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.46
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.



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