Re[2]: Latest Bat! version?

[Wolfgang Kynast]

Hi all,

JR   What is the address for the Ritlabs ftp directory? Thanks.

ST ftp.ritlabs.com with releases in /pub/the_bat and betas in
ST /pub/the_bat/beta

Let me take this opportunity and repeat a mail here that I
wrote yesterday on TBBETA:

-
...
 It's the friendly thing to do ;-).

Let me pick this good point up and try to clarify my viewpoint
of this 'new beta' issue:

New betas are announced by Ritlabs on http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/beta.html
As far as I can remember, the existence of the ftp server has never
been officially announced by Ritlabs.

Therefore, for me a new beta exists *only*, if it is mentioned
on the beta download page. BTW, *if* it is mentioned there we
should expect an announcement from Ritlabs within a reasonable
time listing the changes.

For me lurking at the ftp directory for new files is unfriendly
against our valued manufacturer. In addition, I consider it
unfriendly to accuse them for not providing an announcement
in this case: why should they - it was not designated to the
public.

One might argue that they should put such versions intended
for special testers only into a protected area on the ftp server.
That's a valid point. But we should always keep in mind that
Ritlabs is a very small company and I prefer to let them
develop - not waste their time with administrative things like
protecting directories and maintaining and distributing passwords.

Not everything that is technically possible is ok to do.
Do you go into your neighbors house and do self-service in his
kitchen - just because he did not lock up the door?

We had a lot of unnecessary trouble in the past regarding new
betas. Remember these periodical "there is a new beta, but it
doesn't run" messages - caused by downloads when the upload
was not finished? Remember all these "what is new in this
version" mails - when Ritlabs did not intend to release that
particular version to the public?

To return to the 'friendly thing': I would like to appeal to
everybody to be friendly to our friends at Ritlabs - look for
news versions at the beta download page, not at the ftp server.


Of course this was a private note, not a moderator comment ;-)

-
-- 
Regards,
Wolfgang

Co-moderator TBUDL / TBBETA discussion lists

Using The Bat! 1.49 under Windows 95 4.0 Build   B
in Stadtallendorf, Germany,
on a 166Mhz Cyrix, 128MB SDRAM, half SCSI system ;-)

http://www.wolfgang-kynast.de/

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Re[2]: Digest (02/01/2001 19:21) Special Issue (#2001-785)

[Serge Skorokhodov]

Hello Russ,

ïÿòíèöà, 2 ôåâðàëÿ 2001 ã., you wrote:

RM Hello TBUDL,

RM Quick question for you all, hopefully not to complicated :)

RM I wish to change the hard drive my installation of the Bat is
RM installed to, ie moving from D: drive to C: drive, this is due to
RM having to swap some of my physical hardware around between computers.
RM Do I have to uninstall and then reinstall (and if so, what
RM files/folders etc do I need to save to keep my settings mail folders
RM etc) or is there an easier and quicker way?

RM Thanks for your time.

Basically, all you need is to remember the names of account
folders. Just create your first account when reinstalling TB! and
enter the right folder name in the dialog. Repeat the routine of
creating accounts and setting right containing folders for them
till the your accounts are exhausted.  Enjoy! As soon as all the
data was in the folders, all your accounts will be restored.

Best regards,
 Serge Skorokhodovmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 PS. Sure more than one way from Chicago to New-York exists!

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Re: Handling bad MIME attachments

[Markus Gloede]

Hi,

On Thursday, February 01, 2001, 8:20:30 PM, Gary Mort wrote:

 And  hence  my problem, the MIME attachment is a good attachment,
 properly  base-64  encoded  and  all,  but  when I receive it(and
 others who are in the game using The Bat as their mailer) I can't
 do  anything  with  it!   Short  of  saving it to a text file and
 hunting  around  for a base-64 to binary translator.(Yes, I could
 use  UUENCODE,  but  only  if  I send it, I can't force the other
 person to do so).

 So,  what I would like to be able to do is simply select the MIME
 text  and  then  have  the  bat decode it(I can tell the bat what
 decoding mechanism to use).

 Is there any way to do that?

Save any other message with a proper attachment as MSG/EML file, open
it with a text editor of your choice and replace the encoded part with
your encoded part. Save it and import in into the Bat.

Regards,

Markus
-- 
Using The Bat! 1.49c under Windows NT 4.0 Build
1381 Service Pack 5 

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Re: Help! where have all my menus gone?

[Tobias Wrede]

Hej Krister,

On Dienstag, 30. Januar 2001 at 12:51:39 Krister Ekstrom wrote:

 Thanks Brian, now, if i haven't already gotten it, i need som
 assistance from Swedes in the group, where could the key be on the
 Swedish keyboard which on an american keyboard gives a slash sign?

It's the '-key on the Swedish keyboard (next to ).

so long
Tobias

-- 
Tobias Wrede

Using The Bat! 1.46c on Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 6

When you hit your thumb with an eight-pound hammer it's nice to be able to
blaspheme. It takes a very special and strong-minded kind of atheist to jump
up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout, 'OH,
random-fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!' or 'Aaargh, primitive-and-
out-moded-concept on a crutch!'(from Terry Pratchett, "Men At Arms")

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backup mail and RAR it

[solid snake]

Dear Bat-Man,
on Jumat, 15:19

 I want to backup all my mail now, until thebat will fresh..with no
 mail each account.
 but I just want backup some folder.., not inbox.

 How I can do it easily ?
 Can I just delete all file in that folder, and new file will be
 created ?

 After It, I will RAR it so it will have small size...
 great isn't ?

 If there any better idea tell me,

 My Test, I have compress TB folder, size about 4.9 Mega. But TB
 compress it to "0 bytes saved"

 I compress it my self with WinRAR, and I got size of MESSAGE.TBB
 about 475 kilobytes.
 so It's will save by HD.size that small,
 
-- 
"Squeal Boy, squeal"
solid snake  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Custom headers

[Cameleon]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

Hi,

Is it possible to add custom headers. for example "Newsgroups:", etc ?

Thanks

Cameleon
http://cameleon.org
Anonymity and Privacy on the Internet
PGP keys on server

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 8.0b

iQEVAwUBOnqUnLpXBpKU5vjjAQGFswgAugESntThtp8u937eQUPC7PW0o/x3LNpd
UHqnLAEto2GeZVT2lqDDezeVv/1NIIGCtRnhsYGu78RQjCtiIitsjZ0UV0YEE4/r
csyrbF6RJytwZGhtZKmF2+7TsaJx9KZbe8cZAuiwCM1AXR2YgBsbO/2Nk3YfawIs
jBIcNT3UHvws5rKw6t5azeAMbOAHnlaJrrLorXMG6/Dys6bIfjiRekmnbrBBHZxN
FppFfuTMVFYBVwscc5fyeCRkdwTSj30SDFYKWggnsP9gadO68B97vLok3xSUKmmC
UVWeKEXdDGuOdAFbiDvYX+Gib074PlCF5dbvPnin65XlOqVy0/rDCQ==
=W96A
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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PGP Encrypt / Sign

[Cameleon]

Hi,

Is  it possible to specify in a template with WHICH PGP-key we wish to
encrypt or/and sign an outgoing message ?

Thanks,

Cameleon
http://cameleon.org
Anonymity and Privacy on the Internet
PGP keys on server

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Re: Delphi for linux

[Gerry Doyon]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Beat,

Thursday, February 01, 2001, 3:50:11 PM, you wrote:

BS Hi there

BS Delphi  is  available now for Linux (Kylix). May the ritlabs publish a
BS Linux version soon... :)

As a Delphi developer myself I am guessing that RIT Labs are not even
working on the Linux version at the moment and are instead working all
out on just the Windows version.

The reason why I say this is that The Bat! probably uses several
components that were developed by other companies.  Since software
developers can't specialize in all aspects of software development we
usually buy ready made components, such a spell checker, that were
developed by other companies and "snap it on" to our own product.

So, when we as developers upgrade our development environment, say
from Delphi version 2 to Delphi version 5, as in the case of the new
Bat! version coming out, they have to wait for the company that they
bought the component from to convert it to the new Delphi environment.

Again, this is just my guess!  I love Linux and would love to have a
TB! version, but, given what I have read from the developers of RIT
Labs in various forums they are far to busy at the moment to work on a
Linux version.

Also, if they DO release a Linux version don't count on the same "look
and feel" of the Windows versions.

- --
Using The Bat! v1.49c on Windows 95 4.0 Build 
 B

Best regards,
 Gerry Doyon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i
Comment: Digitally signed, sealed, delivered.

iQA/AwUBOnrI9halOqMy8yvQEQLRLgCdFPlNEzsaDgWQqPd+IV9HJdIqb6oAoNI5
ltgAaACGan7WZwhOPShkbkGv
=B98j
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: Delphi for linux

[Darvan Shovas]

Hello Gerry,

Friday, February 02, 2001, 9:49:22 AM, you wrote:

GD -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
GD Hash: SHA1

GD Hi Beat,

GD Thursday, February 01, 2001, 3:50:11 PM, you wrote:

BS Hi there

BS Delphi  is  available now for Linux (Kylix). May the ritlabs publish a
BS Linux version soon... :)

GD As a Delphi developer myself I am guessing that RIT Labs are not even
GD working on the Linux version at the moment and are instead working all
GD out on just the Windows version.

GD The reason why I say this is that The Bat! probably uses several
GD components that were developed by other companies.  Since software
GD developers can't specialize in all aspects of software development we
GD usually buy ready made components, such a spell checker, that were
GD developed by other companies and "snap it on" to our own product.

GD So, when we as developers upgrade our development environment, say
GD from Delphi version 2 to Delphi version 5, as in the case of the new
GD Bat! version coming out, they have to wait for the company that they
GD bought the component from to convert it to the new Delphi environment.

GD Again, this is just my guess!  I love Linux and would love to have a
GD TB! version, but, given what I have read from the developers of RIT
GD Labs in various forums they are far to busy at the moment to work on a
GD Linux version.

GD Also, if they DO release a Linux version don't count on the same "look
GD and feel" of the Windows versions.

GD - --
GD Using The Bat! v1.49c on Windows 95 4.0 Build 
GD  B

GD Best regards,
GD  Gerry Doyon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

GD -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
GD Version: PGP 6.5i
GD Comment: Digitally signed, sealed, delivered.

GD iQA/AwUBOnrI9halOqMy8yvQEQLRLgCdFPlNEzsaDgWQqPd+IV9HJdIqb6oAoNI5
GD ltgAaACGan7WZwhOPShkbkGv
GD =B98j
GD -END PGP SIGNATURE-


I wouldn't mind at all if the "look and feel" changed, as long as the
functionality and style was retained.

If it's really true there working all out on the TB! for windows, I'm
disappointed. They have an absolutely massive market and wide open
foot-in-the-door, with linux. The email client situation, as it is,
lends to a great opportunity for Ritlabs.

I'd honestly be willing to pay again for a linux version.

As an aside, I recommend The Bat! to everyone who asks about email
clients, and almost all of them ask if there's a linux version. As one
of threads, on one of these lists, said before, making a mail client
in Delphi is very simple. Now, that Kylix is out, you can be sure
there will be an in-rush of email clients and Ritlabs may very well
lose the market. I certainly hope not, as it would be nice to simply
port over my TB! database to linux, and finally dump windows.

I sincerely hope Ritlab's reads these lists and I hope we can hear any
official word from them.

-- 
Best regards,
 Darvanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: backup mail and RAR it

[Thomas]

Hallo solid,

On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:35:11 +0700 GMT (02/02/2001, 16:35 +0800 GMT),
solid snake wrote:

  My Test, I have compress TB folder, size about 4.9 Mega. But TB
  compress it to "0 bytes saved"

  I compress it my self with WinRAR, and I got size of MESSAGE.TBB
  about 475 kilobytes.
  so It's will save by HD.size that small,
 
"Compress" in TB means that messages marked "deleted" will be taken
off the database. If there are no deleted messages in the folder,
nothing will happen.

WinRAR "compresses" by, well, "rar'ing" a file (I guess you know what
that means). It's a completely different thing, even though the same
word is used.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.
Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

-Pity the poor egg: it only gets laid once

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Custom headers

[Thomas]

Hallo Cameleon,

On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 05:06:21 + GMT (02/02/2001, 13:06 +0800 GMT),
Cameleon wrote:

 Is it possible to add custom headers. for example "Newsgroups:", etc ?

No. Not with The Bat! alone. You'll need an extra app to do that.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.
Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

POLITICALLY CORRECT VIRUS: Never calls itself a "virus,"
but instead refers to itself as an "electronic microorganism." 

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: [PGP-Basics] TheBat! 1.49 -- No signing S/MIME Certificate

[Thomas]

Hallo Jerry,

On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:54:08 -0500 GMT (02/02/2001, 06:54 +0800 GMT),
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have a macro for this mailing list to automaticaly PGP sign the
 message. As I am sending this message from another account, I find
 that I get the same error message -- with the "Enable S/MIME" checked.
 So I have to turn of "enable S/MIME" before I can send this message --
 without changing the macro to automatically sign this message.

Right. For the macros %Encyptcomplete and %Signcomplete you have to
have only one enabled: either PGP or S/Mime. Otherwise TB doesn't know
which one you mean.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.
Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

What happens if you get scared half to death twice?

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Delphi for linux

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Darvan,

On 02 February 2001 at  10:05:58 -0500 (which was 15:05 where I  live)
Darvan Shovas wrote and made these points:

moderator
Please trim when replying. You quoted Gerry's message in its entirety
*including* his PGP signature. That is against the rules of this list.
/moderator

... and now the topic:

DS If it's really true there working all out on the TB! for windows,
DS I'm disappointed.

Well, try not to be. We have been waiting for v2 to come out for over
a year now and RIT labs only have two programmers. This is a *clear*
priority.

DS They have an absolutely massive market and wide open
DS foot-in-the-door, with linux. The email client situation, as it
DS is, lends to a great opportunity for Ritlabs.

This may be the case, but Gerry makes a very good point about the
availability of third party components. I don't think that the guys
at RIT will be in a position to put together a Linux preview version
for around 6 months, given that v2 is under way and needs completing,
beta testing and releasing before they can even start the job.

DS ... Now, that Kylix is out, you can be sure there will be an
DS in-rush of email clients and Ritlabs may very well lose the
DS market.

This is a fair point, but OTOH, pedigree shows. Max and Stefan wrote
TB out of their familiarity with Fido and from years of work. There is
a wealth of functionality in TB that *isn't* GUI bound and will port
much more easily than a competitor can match in a new MUA.

DS I sincerely hope Ritlab's reads these lists and I hope we can hear
DS any official word from them.

They read the lists from time to time but rarely reply due to the
pressure of work. I don't like to distract them from that to answer
points of simple curiosity. I trust them to make announcements at
their convenience.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness

iQA/AwUBOnrT4znkJKuSnc2gEQJ4FwCg4vZZgC2Tn87QokSNX3XQJ1zexwYAn0KE
fDgweByHyU6K/QKweNxSgWYb
=C4h6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[2]: Delphi for linux

[Darvan Shovas]

Hello Marck,

Friday, February 02, 2001, 10:36:03 AM, you wrote:

MDP -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
MDP Hash: SHA1

MDP Hi Darvan,

MDP On 02 February 2001 at  10:05:58 -0500 (which was 15:05 where I  live)
MDP Darvan Shovas wrote and made these points:

MDP moderator
MDP Please trim when replying. You quoted Gerry's message in its entirety
MDP *including* his PGP signature. That is against the rules of this list.
MDP /moderator

Apologies for the mailing list faux pas.

MDP Well, try not to be. We have been waiting for v2 to come out for
MDP over a year now and RIT labs only have two programmers. This is a
MDP *clear* priority.

Can anyone tell me what's new in 2.0? Is it a complete rewrite? When
is the projected release? I wouldn't mind just updating the 1.xx
series. Although, they probably want to void current registrations in
the 1.xx series too and push for 2.xx registrations. Which I have no
problem with. TB! is worth it.

MDP This may be the case, but Gerry makes a very good point about the
MDP availability of third party components. I don't think that the
MDP guys at RIT will be in a position to put together a Linux preview
MDP version for around 6 months, given that v2 is under way and needs
MDP completing, beta testing and releasing before they can even start
MDP the job.

I've worked with C++Builder(v3 and 4: Same as Delphi, but using
C/C++), and it never occurred to me that a mature development house
would use third-party components. I know one would obviously use
Borland's components, but they're packaged and would be immediately
available. Oh well, it just seemed to me that a product the maturity
and complexity of TB! would have custom written and highy optimized
code.

MDP This is a fair point, but OTOH, pedigree shows. Max and Stefan
MDP wrote TB out of their familiarity with Fido and from years of
MDP work. There is a wealth of functionality in TB that *isn't* GUI
MDP bound and will port much more easily than a competitor can match
MDP in a new MUA.

Well, I may have painted the situation a little grimmer than it really
is. There are, obviously, projects in development with the
functionality of TB!, in the works. Some are quite along the way to
becoming outstanding products. Admittedly, TB! has very nice little
"tweak" features that I've gotten used to that I believe other clients
would not have.

At any rate, with the release of Kylix, you can bet a lot of these
projects will move over to an established, user-friendly, commercial
RAD environment and will only accelerate their process.

MDP They read the lists from time to time but rarely reply due to the
MDP pressure of work. I don't like to distract them from that to
MDP answer points of simple curiosity. I trust them to make
MDP announcements at their convenience.

I was unaware that Ritlabs was only composed of two employees(or
perhaps programmers). I suppose I'll have to grin and bear it until
2.0 is released, and then wait for the linux version of 1.xx(which
might be easier to port, perhaps).

-- 
Best regards,
 Darvanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[3]: Delphi for linux

[Jamie Dainton]

Hello Darvan Shovas,
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:05:58 -0500 GMT your local time,
which was Friday, February 02, 2001, 3:05:58 PM (GMT+0100) (BST) my local time,

Darvan Shovas wrote:

DS As an aside, I recommend The Bat! to everyone who asks about email
DS clients, and almost all of them ask if there's a linux version. As one
DS of threads, on one of these lists, said before, making a mail client
DS in Delphi is very simple. Now, that Kylix is out, you can be sure
DS there will be an in-rush of email clients and Ritlabs may very well
DS lose the market. I certainly hope not, as it would be nice to simply
DS port over my TB! database to linux, and finally dump windows.


Making a mail client is very simple. Making a good mail client is very
difficult. Code has to be designed from the beginning to be cross
platform. No API calls and no 3rd party components. Say good bye to the
inline spellchecking and other niceties.

Just because Kylix is available it does not guarantee a Linux version.
I've actually had a look at Kylix code and it requires quite a change
in style. Aynway I'll be able to tell you more soon. I've pre ordered
my copy of Kylix ($999) and am looking for Delphi 6.

-- 
 Jamie Dainton  
 On Friday, February 02, 2001 at 3:57:53 PM  
 The Bat! 1.49
 Windows 98 4.10 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=sendKey
 
 cthread. cthread_fork(). Fork, thread, fork!

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Re: Delphi for linux

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Darvan,

On 02 February 2001 at  11:07:24 -0500 (which was 16:07 where I  live)
Darvan Shovas wrote and made these points:

DS Can anyone tell me what's new in 2.0? Is it a complete rewrite? When
DS is the projected release?

Actually, much of the new v2 feature set already exists and is being
testing in the 1.xx series. The V2 mailbase format was introduced for
1.42. S/MIME was added at around 1.45. Other than these things we know
that the editor is due for a major re-work and the stated intention is
to offer support for plug-ins and / or scripting of some kind.

MDP ... the availability of third party components ...

DS I've worked with C++Builder(v3 and 4: Same as Delphi, but using
DS C/C++),

(me too - and I also work with Delphi)

DS and it never occurred to me that a mature development house would
DS use third-party components.

The dictionary / spell checker is certainly a third party component.

DS ... it just seemed to me that a product the maturity and
DS complexity of TB! would have custom written and highy optimized
DS code.

Most of it is, for sure.

DS I was unaware that Ritlabs was only composed of two employees (or
DS perhaps programmers).

There are many people at RITlabs. I don't know how many since I only
communicate with four of them in total. Only two of the RITlabs
personal are involved in programming TB to my knowledge; Stefan
Tanurkov and Maxim Masiutin.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness

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J8Gb+4ojXILLeLhtwjwKTj68
=PIIA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[3]: Delphi for linux

[Gerry Doyon]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Darvan,

Friday, February 02, 2001, 11:07:24 AM, you wrote:


DS I've worked with C++Builder(v3 and 4: Same as Delphi, but using
DS C/C++), and it never occurred to me that a mature development house
DS would use third-party components.

Well, I don't know about other "development houses" Darvan but I have
neither the time nor the inclination to code:

  1) A report writer engine
  2) A TCP/IP communications engine
  3) A custom editor
  4) etc.

We code just what makes our product unique and stand out.  I gave up a
LONG time ago the notion that, in order to be a real programmer one
had to code EVERY portion of the software application.

Did you know Darvan that even the vaunted Microsoft hires contract
programs to write code for their operating system and uses companents
that they didn't create?

OI am sorry if this has gotten of topic. :-)

- --
Using The Bat! v1.49c on Windows 95 4.0 Build 
 B

Best regards,
 Gerry Doyon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i
Comment: Digitally signed, sealed, delivered.

iQA/AwUBOnrfHRalOqMy8yvQEQJh/QCgyH8ZHDOOr6dgCwzqKpuJMIwok4cAoKeV
X6NWHk9110MA9u5MXefqrerw
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Re[2]: Delphi for linux

[Yuki Taga]

Saturday, February 03, 2001, 12:36:03 AM, Marck wrote:

DS If it's really true there working all out on the TB! for windows,
DS I'm disappointed.

MDP Well, try not to be. We have been waiting for v2 to come out for over
MDP a year now and RIT labs only have two programmers. This is a *clear*
MDP priority.

Have to agree with Marck.  Let's get v2 out.  And while Linux is a nice
system -- I have been using Red Hat since 4.0 -- it is *not* taking over
the desktops of some odd hundreds of millions of Windows boxes any time
soon, if ever.  Sorry, but as a Linux fan, I've got to tell you this is
honest truth.  I think about my mother and father switching from Windows to
Linux.  The thought itself is a non-starter.  They wouldn't have the
slightest clue how to even begin, and that's true with the bulk of computer
users in the world today.  It's easy to lose sight of this when you're
dealing with digital sophisticates like you will largely find on a list
like this, myself being the obvious exception to the rule.  But the average
computer user in the world today is not ready for the intricacies of Linux.

There is no question in my mind where the "massive" market opportunity
exists, and that is on the Windows platform.  Besides, Linux already has
some very sophisticated mail handling programs, and they are free.  Exmh is
one of my favorites.  A bit of a bear to learn to configure, but once
you're there, you have a pretty good imitation of TB! on Linux, complete
with all the PGP support you'd ever want, just to pick on one particular
feature of many.  I doubt if the mail client market to "lose" in Linux is
all that large, to be honest with you.  Linux hackers tend to like Open
Source, and getting in under the hood and tinkering.  An e-mail app could
be sold to Penguins, but it would have to be *substantially* -- I mean head
 shoulders -- better than anything that is already available.  Maybe if it
made my morning coffee for me and placed the hot mug right next to the
keyboard.  ^_-

-- 
Best,

Yuki

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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What newsreader do you use?

[John]

Hello, 
Since the Bat! does not read news for the moment (I 
understand this function will be added in a near future), which newsreader do 
you either use or recommend?

Best 
RegardsJohn
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Re: What newsreader do you use?

[Karin Spaink]

On 02-02-2001 at 18:07, John kindly wrote:

 Since the Bat! does not read news for the moment (I
 understand this function will be added in a near future),
 which newsreader do you either use or recommend?

Many people here use Agent, or its free derivate Free Agent.


- K -

-- 

When women hold off from marrying men, we call it 
independence. When men hold off from marrying women, 
we call it fear of commitment. 
  - Warren Farrell, American psychologist



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Re: What newsreader do you use?

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi John,

On 02 February 2001 at  21:07:46 +0400 (which was 17:07 where I  live)
John wrote and made these points:

moderator
Please do not write to the list in HTML. It is against the list rules
and many of the members here do not appreciate it. Some even have
filters to move any HTML mail directly to trash.
/moderator

J Since the Bat! does not read news for the moment (I understand this
J function will be added in a near future), which newsreader do you
J either use or recommend?

Many here use Agent or Free agent. Another popular reader is Gravity.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness

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xsEhODoZ/01SH21NpTXCs/Wc
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Re: Attachments in Moved messages

[Tim Musson]

Hey Keith,

Tuesday, January 30, 2001, 2:59:10 PM, you wrote:

KR I'm  trying to understand how the Bat! deals with attachments.

I have wondered the same thing, but my experience is a little
different.  I never had occasion to move a message with an attachment
to another account with a rule.  I just did it manually - guess
what...  The attachment is still in the old \Attach dir, and just
referenced from there!  Anyone know what's up with that?

Also, I have been unable to get TB to delete the files in the /Attach
directory, even though I have "Delete attached files when a message is
deleted from Trash folder" selected in Account Properties | Files 
directories.  Any thoughts on this one?

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! eMail v1.49
Windows NT 5.0.2195 (Service Pack 1)
#include std/disclaimer;

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Re[2]: Move msg to another Account?

[Tim Musson]

Hey Wolfgang,

Wednesday, January 31, 2001, 8:32:02 AM, you wrote:

WK Hi Tim,

TM   Is it possible to have a Rule move a message to another
TM   account/folder without sending

WK Yes.

WK Dumb question: why didn't you simply try it?

Ouch!, don't you think that is a little harsh :-( especially for a
moderator of a UDL that is supposed to cater to the new user?  Yes, I
am offended! And, I did try it, I just missed where it was  :-(

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! eMail v1.49
Windows NT 5.0.2195 (Service Pack 1)
Out of my mind...Back in five minutes. 

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Re[2]: [PGP-Basics] TheBat! 1.49 -- No signing S/MIME Certificate

[SyP]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Thomas,

You wrote on 2/2/2001, 4:06 PM:

Thomas Right. For the macros %Encyptcomplete and %Signcomplete you
Thomas have to have only one enabled: either PGP or S/Mime. Otherwise
Thomas TB doesn't know which one you mean.

I just want to add: Jerry doesn't have to change his account defaults:
a %NOUSESMIME will suffice.

- --
Cheers, SyP

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

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SagN6k1KWyHIAMHEtKBOjCq7
=ySk6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[3]: Delphi for linux

[Darvan Shovas]

Hello Yuki,

Friday, February 02, 2001, 11:38:31 AM, you penned:

YT Saturday, February 03, 2001, 12:36:03 AM, Marck wrote:

YT Have to agree with Marck.  Let's get v2 out.  And while Linux is a
YT nice system -- I have been using Red Hat since 4.0 -- it is *not*
YT taking over the desktops of some odd hundreds of millions of
YT Windows boxes any time soon, if ever.

Granted, it's not currently taking over millions of people, simply
because there is no real reason to switch to linux, for the average
user. I would hedge my bets, though, that TB! users aren't average
users.

And, I must say, give Mandrake a real spin. It's absolutely beautiful.
Installation is a breeze. Hardware detection is automatic...but enough
of distribution advocation.

My point is, V2.0 is the priority, right now. Get it out. I'm all for
it and I may upgrade to it, but don't discount linux or any
unix-variant(as a port to linux will make for easy porting to many
unix-variants--thus increasing your potential market).

YT   Sorry, but as a Linux fan,
YT I've got to tell you this is honest truth.  I think about my
YT mother and father switching from Windows to Linux.  The thought
YT itself is a non-starter.  They wouldn't have the slightest clue
YT how to even begin, and that's true with the bulk of computer users
YT in the world today.

There seems to be a notion that TB! users are of the calibre of people
using Outlook Express. While TB! is intuitive and easy enough to slip
into for the type of person who "wants their email and they want it
now", I really believe the actual userbase consists of those who
understand the power and flexibility of TB! and know how to get to it.

If TB! were to be ported within a few months, and released ahead of
other projects, I'm positive you would see an outstanding response
from linux users. What was the last estimate, 15 million or so linux
users? Knowing what kind of person makes up a linux user, I can say
quite solidly that you'd a few thousand registrations
immediately(relatively speaking).

YT   It's easy to lose sight of this when you're
YT dealing with digital sophisticates like you will largely find on a
YT list like this, myself being the obvious exception to the rule.
YT But the average computer user in the world today is not ready for
YT the intricacies of Linux.

Maybe I'm spoiled with Mandrake, but my grand parents, knowing
windows, could operate Mandrake. I'm not saying the average user has
any incentive to switch to linux, but I have to refute the idea that
linux is hard to use. Besides that point, there is already an
installed community of users, on the linux side, that would definitely
go for this product.

YT There is no question in my mind where the "massive" market opportunity
YT exists, and that is on the Windows platform.

Businesses die because of this type of non-forward, and inactive
new-market-seeking vision. :)

YT   Besides, Linux already has
YT some very sophisticated mail handling programs, and they are free.  Exmh is
YT one of my favorites.  A bit of a bear to learn to configure, but once
YT you're there, you have a pretty good imitation of TB! on Linux, complete
YT with all the PGP support you'd ever want, just to pick on one particular
YT feature of many.

Granted, there are clients available, but, in all truth, what would
you rather use? I get the idea that you use linux or some unix
variants in your daily work. Wouldn't you like to perform your daily
work routines from the OS of your choice? You may, of course, prefer
windows of *nix. Still, the idea remains, for those who would rather
perform all their work from a single OS, these people constitute a
major portion of potential TB! users.

YT   I doubt if the mail client market to "lose" in Linux is
YT all that large, to be honest with you.  Linux hackers tend to like Open
YT Source, and getting in under the hood and tinkering.

You make the assumption that all, or most, linux users are hackers. I
don't consider myself a hacker. I don't hack into the source code of
most of the applications I use. I could if I wanted(I may not
understand a great portion of it, even), but I rarely ever do.

As with most people who wish to use an OS as a desktop machine(to
perform work on, not to let the machine perform work _for_ them), I
want an application that works, out of the box. TB! could be that
application on linux, in the mail client market.

YT   An e-mail app could
YT be sold to Penguins, but it would have to be *substantially* -- I mean head
YT  shoulders -- better than anything that is already available.

That's true, but then again, it pretty much already is, don't you
think? You named Exmh, which I have not tried yet, but the majority of
email clients available, at this time, are not ready for prime time,
and may not be for some time. A relatively quick port of TB! could
change that situation, and capture the attention of those who are
willing to pay for software on linux, which is a surprisnig amount,
from those linux 

Re[2]: What newsreader do you use?

[John Phillips]

Marck D. Pearlstone wrote, On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, at 17:22:40 [GMT +] (04:22 
Australian Eastern Time,Saturday):

MDP Please do not write to the list in HTML. It is against the list
MDP rules and many of the members here do not appreciate it. Some
MDP even have filters to move any HTML mail directly to trash.


Great stuff!  Can someone please post an example?

TIA



-- 
I like to sit and think. Mostly, I just sit.

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Re[5]: Delphi for linux

[Darvan Shovas]

Hello John,

Friday, February 02, 2001, 2:26:35 PM, you penned:

JP I am not a Linux user (never even figured out how to correctly
JP pronounce the word g), but as an ex Agent user, and a reader at
JP times of their ng, I notice they state that Agent will run under
JP WINE (or is this beer? g)
JP   Maybe Bat! users could try this?
JP Hope this helps!

I attempted this a while back, but windows kept going corrupt, and I
don't believe I ever got too far into it before it stopped working.

WINE, for all the work that has gone into it, is not the answer I
fear. Simple platform compatibility is what is needed.

-- 
Best regards,
 Darvanmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[2]: Custom headers

[Cameleon]

Hi,

 Is it possible to add custom headers. for example "Newsgroups:", etc ?

 No. Not with The Bat! alone. You'll need an extra app to do that.

Great, but WHICH extra app. hmmm ? :-)


Cameleon
http://cameleon.org
All to be Anonymous on the Internet
PGP keys on server



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Re: What newsreader do you use?

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi John,

On 02 February 2001 at  05:53:50 +1100 (which was 18:53 where I  live)
John Phillips wrote and made these points:

MDP Please do not write to the list in HTML. It is against the list
MDP rules and many of the members here do not appreciate it. Some
MDP even have filters to move any HTML mail directly to trash.

JP Great stuff!  Can someone please post an example?

You could use:

String   : multipart/alternative
Where: kludges
Presence : Yes

or even

String   : Content-Type: text/plain
Where: kludges
Presence : No

Action "Mark as read", "Move to trash".

Enjoy.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness

iQA/AwUBOnsQqznkJKuSnc2gEQIEZACZAUggjIp4UTDb149OvxH6wrEnxyoAoILP
ma32s4uH6Xy2oZYUy1tyWKcI
=jznN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Custom headers

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:54:36 +, Cameleon contributed this to our
collective wisdom:

 No. Not with The Bat! alone. You'll need an extra app to do that.

C Great, but WHICH extra app. hmmm ? :-)

You could try X-Ray http://xraysoft.cjb.net/

- --
@~@@~@
 |   A. Curtis Martin  [List Moderator TB(UDL|BETA|TECH)]   |
 | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey |
@_@   (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS)   @_@
__
TB! v1.49e | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication.

iQA/AwUBOnsRpFfJ62ArBxfiEQK9/QCfXhhv2xn1VP18flsPf9HsowGpllAAoPZO
U2ihfDko3n9IKF3msKBxcsME
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Re[2]: backup mail and RAR it

[solid snake]

Jumat, almost night (was Evening in my town),
[..in milis thebat!..], Alexander graced us with these comments:
 Alexander's The Bat! (v1.49) Personal rip 
 Well... Good question... So make static solid RAR archive from Your The Bat
 directories and be happy...

 Or may be You need not solid RAR archive but message base ?
 Alexander's The Bat! (v1.49) Personal rip 
I have test it with Backup Tools TB,
It's seem save a lot as RAR or ZIP..

Thank'sss

 
-- 
  , written at close to the night
solid snake mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  [ICQ: 105782737 ]

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Re: Zeros in kill filter

[IronHand]

Hello Lija,

L When I drag filter from incoming mail to selective download, I get
L something
L like this:

L [EMAIL PROTECTED]

L Why are these zeros used for?

It is coused by the way TB saves filters in accont filter file. Try
changing some parameters in filter You had in incoming mail. Then move
it again. Changing location in filtering string from sender to
anything else, or presence from yes to no will change numbers. The
first one is location, the second one is presence. As You see
selective download is realy poor in comparision with other sections,
but every filter takes 255 bytes I think.

BTW: I'm working on a tool, that can move filters between accounts.

Regards,
IronHand
-- 
nIck: IronHand of CruX /GCS d-(++) s:- a18 C++ UL P+++ L++@ E\
maIl: { W+++ N+ o? K? w+++ !O M V? PS+ PE- Y PGP- }
[EMAIL PROTECTED] \t+ 5+ X- R++ tv b+ DI? D+ G++ e- h! r% y-/
Nic dwa razy sie nie zdaza...

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3 Accounts: Move all incoming mail to one folder

[chucksings]

Hello TBUDL,

  I have 3 email accounts.  I would like all incoming email to be
  moved into one folder.

  How is this done?  Is their a string for "ALL"?

-- 
Best regards,
 chucksings  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: 3 Accounts: Move all incoming mail to one folder

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi chucksings,

On 02 February 2001 at  16:32:48 -0500 (which was 21:32 where I  live)
chucksings wrote and made these points:

c I have 3 email accounts. I would like all incoming email to be
c moved into one folder.

c How is this done? Is their a string for "ALL"?

There are a number of ways this can be done logically.

String   : @
Location : kludges
presence : No

Is a pretty sound way of saying "all messages" IMHO.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH
 
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs   ]

TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured
Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness

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oLS5ydFb5VclwQjmgxdIvhnh
=WLx3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[4]: Delphi for linux

[Yuki Taga]

Hi Darvan,

Saturday, February 03, 2001, 4:21:20 AM, Darvan wrote:

DS Granted, it's not currently taking over millions of people, simply
DS because there is no real reason to switch to linux, for the average
DS user. I would hedge my bets, though, that TB! users aren't average
DS users.

Oh I agree with that last statement entirely.  "Average" users boot the
machine and log on to Outlook Express for their mail.  It's simple, and
provides "average" functionality.  And the "average" user doesn't even know
what Linux is.  ^_-  Getting this market will be tough.  Because the
"average" user doesn't know what he or she is missing, not to mention that
M$ is not exactly a corporate pushover if they decide that you are a
potential threat to something that they are doing.

DS There seems to be a notion that TB! users are of the calibre of people
DS using Outlook Express. While TB! is intuitive and easy enough to slip
DS into for the type of person who "wants their email and they want it
DS now", I really believe the actual userbase consists of those who
DS understand the power and flexibility of TB! and know how to get to it.

I don't get that impression about TB! users at all.  Quite the contrary,
although I must admit my impression comes primarily from this list, which
is not a very representative sample, I suspect.  But . . . the *mass*
market *does* use OE.  And getting them is where major money would be.

DS Businesses die because of this type of non-forward, and inactive
DS new-market-seeking vision. :)

More businesses probably die from losing their focus and chasing non- or
less-profitable mirages.  ^_-

DS Granted, there are clients available,

There are *hundreds* of clients available, and some of them are quiet
sophisticated.  Were exmh available on the Windows platform, I'd probably
never have downloaded TB!  It's only drawback is that you just about need a
degree in programming to really configure the thing to your own liking. But
once you get that part finally figured out, you have a beautiful face on an
extremely powerful client.

Well, I suspect we've written more about this than non-*nix people ever
want to read.  (^_^)  In the end, I'll agree that there's no reason to
overlook the *nix market, but economic viability probably depends on
plain-vanilla Windows users, hence our agreement that this is the priority
right now.

-- 
Best,

Yuki

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Re: Delphi for linux

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:00:44 +0900, Yuki graced us with these comments:

 --snip--
DS Granted, it's not currently taking over millions of people,
DS simply because there is no real reason to switch to linux, for
DS the average user. I would hedge my bets, though, that TB! users
DS aren't average users.

YT Oh I agree with that last statement entirely.

moderator note

I think TBUDL has enjoyed enough of this thread that though related to
TB! isn't directly on topic with respect to TB! and how to use it.
This thread would be more appropriately continued on TBTECH. Thanks.

\moderator note

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Launching URLs

[Yuki Taga]

All,

I'm unable to get TB! 1.49e to launch embedded URLs correctly.  The browser
(MSIE 5) is summoned immediately, but I get a "page cannot be displayed"
error, and the URL shows in the MSIE address window as http://iexplore/.
Been looking around for a setting for this, but I can't seem to find one.

-- 
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Yuki ^_^

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Re: Launching URLs

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:11:37 +0900, Yuki contributed this to our
collective wisdom:

YT I'm unable to get TB! 1.49e to launch embedded URLs correctly.
YT The browser (MSIE 5) is summoned immediately, but I get a "page
YT cannot be displayed" error, and the URL shows in the MSIE address
YT window as http://iexplore/. Been looking around for a setting for
YT this, but I can't seem to find one.

URL's launch just fine here. Have you checked the IE options to be
certain that TB! is still configured as your default e-mail client?

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Re[2]: Launching URLs

[Yuki Taga]

Saturday, February 03, 2001, 8:18:50 AM, A. wrote:

YT I'm unable to get TB! 1.49e to launch embedded URLs correctly.
YT The browser (MSIE 5) is summoned immediately, but I get a "page
YT cannot be displayed" error, and the URL shows in the MSIE address
YT window as http://iexplore/. Been looking around for a setting for
YT this, but I can't seem to find one.

ACM URL's launch just fine here. Have you checked the IE options to be
ACM certain that TB! is still configured as your default e-mail client?

Yes, TB! is still the default e-mail client according to
MSIE/Tools/Internet Options/Programs.  Never had this problem with Pegasus,
either.  Wonder what's causing this.  And . . . since I run both MSIE and
Netscape, is there a way to configure TB! to launch the browser of my
choice, even though that browser might not be the default browser?

-- 
Best,

Yuki

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Launching URLs

[A . Curtis Martin]

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On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 08:28:26 +0900, Yuki graced us with these comments:

ACM URL's launch just fine here. Have you checked the IE options to
ACM be certain that TB! is still configured as your default e-mail
ACM client?

YT Yes, TB! is still the default e-mail client according to
YT MSIE/Tools/Internet Options/Programs. Never had this problem with
YT Pegasus, either. Wonder what's causing this. And . . . since I run
YT both MSIE and Netscape, is there a way to configure TB! to launch
YT the browser of my choice, even though that browser might not be
YT the default browser?

No. TB! will only launch you're default browser.

The next thing you need to check is if MSIE is in fact your default
browser. Do URL's invoked from other applications work?

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Re[2]: Launching URLs

[Yuki Taga]

Saturday, February 03, 2001, 8:36:51 AM, A. wrote:

ACM URL's launch just fine here. Have you checked the IE options to be
ACM certain that TB! is still configured as your default e-mail client?

YT Yes, TB! is still the default e-mail client according to
YT MSIE/Tools/Internet Options/Programs. Never had this problem with
YT Pegasus, either. Wonder what's causing this. And . . . since I run
YT both MSIE and Netscape, is there a way to configure TB! to launch
YT the browser of my choice, even though that browser might not be
YT the default browser?

ACM No. TB! will only launch you're default browser.

Hmm.  Another suggestion.  ^_^

ACM The next thing you need to check is if MSIE is in fact your default
ACM browser. Do URL's invoked from other applications work?

Pegasus launches URLs perfectly, although I can define which browser
Pegasus uses, and I have it set to launch Netscape, because I prefer the
way Netscape handles bookmarks, and use it for most of my browsing.  But I
usually leave MSIE set as the system default browser, because I've found
that monkeying around with this aspect of a Windows platform usually
results in some undesirable behavior someplace.  Then I turn off the
notification in Netscape that pops up asking if you want to set it as the
default browser. Netscape seems quite content to live its life as Number 2,
even though I really use it as Number 1.  ^_^  But to be honest with you,
I've forgotten how to verify that MSIE is the default, although I'm pretty
sure it is.

And key here, I think, is that MSIE is geting launched by TB!.  So if it
wasn't the default browser, that wouldn't be happening according to what
you wrote above.  But something is not working right, because the page load
is failing with an error message . . . cannot load.

Best,

Yuki

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Address completion entering multiple addresses.

[A . Curtis Martin]

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Hi,

I've been noting that the address completion system of the editor
completes to multiple addresses.

I wrote a message to multiple recipients and then later wrote another
message to one of those recipients using the CTRL+ method of
completing the address. To my surprise, the long list of addresses was
what the completion system brought up and as the only choice. It
really should auto-complete only single addresses.

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 | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey |
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Re[2]: Move msg to another Account?

[Tim Musson]

Hey Marck,

Friday, February 02, 2001, 12:56:23 PM, you wrote:
MDP Tim - you've got the wrong end of the stick here. This comment has
MDP been thrashed out (and Wolfgang has been called to account for it).
MDP Please try to contain your reactions and read to the end of a thread
MDP before responding.

There were only 3-4 messages in the thread when I responded... (I have
had no "land line" for a few days to connect with as we just moved
into our new home).

MDP Wolfgang has used a literal translation of a German stock phrase here
MDP and a more appropriate translation is "This may seem a silly question
MDP but ...". i.e. Wolfgang is asking a dumb question, not you.

Got it - no offence taken, all previous comments retracted! :-)  Sorry
Wolfgang, your English in everything I have read seemed so natural that
I had no indication it was a second language for you...

MDP moderator
MDP This is a mutli-national list and not everyone has English as their
MDP first language. Please try to bear this in mind when you react to what
MDP may appear to be harsh language.
MDP /moderator

Will do.

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Your mouse has moved. Windows must now reboot. Click OK to continue.

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Re: What newsreader do you use?

[Nick Andriash]

On February 2, 2001, at 9:07:46 AM, John Wrote:

J which newsreader do you either use or recommend?

XNews... It's small, fast, efficient and it's free:

http://xnews.3dnews.net/


Nick


N.J. Andriash [ TB! v1.49c | PGP 7.0.3 | Win 98 SE ]
  Vancouver, B.C. Canada | PGP Key ID:  0x7BA3FDCE  
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