Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Thomas,

It was foretold that on Sunday, September 1, 2002 at 10:57 GMT +0700,
Thomas F. [TF] would type:

TF> Are you sure about this? It means that the next mail will be
TF> downloaded only if the previous one has been processed through the
TF> filters;

Yup, that is correct.

TF> and if the filter calls an external program with "wait for
TF> program completion" marked, downloading must be halted during that
TF> program's execution.

That's how it works.  If you use Marck's SpamCop filters, you can see
this in action very easily.  Just watch what happens as the response
filter spawns the batch file that runs IE.

TF> I don't think this would be a very wise algorithm, that's why I ask
TF> whether you know or assume TB acts like that.

It happens all the time here.  I use VBScripts for various things and
if I change mail directories or something without updating the
scripts, I get this happening.  The script fails (silently) but
the script process continues to run, so TB seems to hang.  If you kill
the script forcibly, then TB can be "revived".

TF> Apart from that, the Connection Center would still show the running
TF> task, wouldn't it?

Yes, but it isn't obvious why the CC is stopped.  It is easy to blame
TB when it really is the external program's fault.

TF> And that task would be killable by hitting Delete
TF> or Abort.

Nope.  Try it.  Make a simple .bat script that has one line containing
"Pause".  Then run it from a broad filter.  Watch what happens when
the filter is invoked before you manually kill the script's window.

TF> FWIW there were no filters calling any external programs or
TF> scripts when the problem occurred on my box a couple of months
TF> back. The running task was definitely the Connection Center
TF> itself.

Which is why I said, just another thing to check. I've had the problem
you're describing too, but typically, I've found that to be killable
with the Abort/Delete buttons. The only time *I've* experienced a
non-killable "hang" is with a misbehaving script.

Again, I'm talking only about the current version. I will not presume
to discuss previous versions.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

Using The Bat! 1.61 under Windows 98 4.10 Build  A

This sentence lets you know this page was not a mistake.



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Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Thomas F.]

Hello Januk,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 20:19:49 -0700 GMT (01/09/02, 10:19 +0700 GMT),
Januk Aggarwal wrote:

JA> While I doubt Paul has done this, the connection center can *seem*
JA> to hang if a script in a filter is misbehaving.

JA> Typically this will be a filter that runs an external process
JA> (script/program) and that script or program stalls.

Are you sure about this? It means that the next mail will be
downloaded only if the previous one has been processed through the
filters; and if the filter calls an external program with "wait for
program completion" marked, downloading must be halted during that
program's execution.

I don't think this would be a very wise algorithm, that's why I ask
whether you know or assume TB acts like that.

Apart from that, the Connection Center would still show the running
task, wouldn't it? And that task would be killable by hitting Delete
or Abort.

JA> Just another thing to check if all else fails.

FWIW there were no filters calling any external programs or scripts
when the problem occurred on my box a couple of months back. The
running task was definitely the Connection Center itself.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Ad: Our experienced Mom will care of your child. Fenced yard, meals,
and smacks included.

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.62/Beta1
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using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM



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Re[2]: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Mark Wieder]

Adam-

Saturday, August 31, 2002, 4:24:41 PM, using
 you wrote:

AR> #  Supports  incoming mail via either SMTP, or POP3, or even both: Mercury's
AR> POP3  client  module  can  retrieve mail from multiple remote POP3 mailboxes and
AR> distribute  it  to  local  users; it also supports retrieval and distribution of
AR> mail from remote "Domain Mailboxes".

OK. You've convinced me to take another look at Mercury. There's
obviously some stuff I overlooked before since this is the reason I
rejected it in the first place.

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.60h on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Mark Wieder]

Saturday, August 31, 2002, 4:16:42 PM, using
 you wrote:


AR> 
EXCHANGE...arh

AR> I administer an Exchange server in work

AR> a!

Please accept my condolences. I have thus far managed to talk my way
out of having to be in that situation.

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.60h on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2



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Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hi Marck,

On Friday, August 30, 2002 at 22:35 GMT +0100, resistance was high,
but Marck Pearlstone [MP] made current:

MP> There is usually only one kind of long-term task that causes this.
MP> The Connection Centre is having trouble with a connection. You
MP> probably have it hidden and can't see what's wrong. Under "Options |
MP> Preferences | General" set the "Display Connection Centre" to
MP> "Always" (temporarily) to enable you to identify the unfinished
MP> task.

While I doubt Paul has done this, the connection center can *seem* to
hang if a script in a filter is misbehaving.  Typically this will be a
filter that runs an external process (script/program) and that script
or program stalls.

Just another thing to check if all else fails.

-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

Ok, who is General Relativity, and what did he do with Sir Newton?



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Re: Urgent Help with Selective Download

[Sudip Pokhrel]

Hi Roelof,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 20:54:43 +0200 GMT (Sep 01, 00:39 my local time),
you [RO] wrote:

RO> That's just as mind blind as an ISP refusing mail with an TB
RO> X-Mailer header.

I'm a strong advocate against the ISP policy of filtering mails based
on X-mailer header, but an individual user has a right to
accept/reject any mails by employing any filtering method s/he deems
appropriate. Furthermore, in my case, it's a temporary measure and a
practical one.

RO> You're sure you haven't any friends, colleagues, relatives or
RO> whatever using OE who might send you attachments?

Not on this ISP account.. I only reserve it for mailing lists/news
services. Besides, more than 95% of the infected mails have been
propagated by the OE users. Also, the mailing lists I subscribe to
either do not allow attachments or have no prevalent practice of
exchanging attachments.

-- 
Be Well,   Sudip Pokhrel
Sudip  Kathmandu-NP.
___PGP Key ID: 0xD93F5185
TB! v1.61 on XP Pro|   http://pgpkeys.mit.edu
P4-1.6Ghz 256MB RAM|
_..
Enthusiasm is contagious. Start an epidemic





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Re: AVG/TB limitations and issues

[Thomas Martin]

Hello  ETM,

On  Saturday, 31. August 2002  at 17:17:31 [GMT -0400] you wrote:


> My current AV is notifying me when it receives Klez, etc., usually
> cleaning and restoring mail.  Do I understand correctly that AVG
> does not have that capability?  I am not quick to "open" unknown
> items but I also don't want to jump from what appears to
> be protective to perhaps a not-so-protective AV program, or do I
> totally misunderstand what they are saying?

Thats right. AVG cant, as the most AV clean a particular Mail. it
moves the infected mail into a special folder. I prefer that, because
so i vcn still read the message itself, which is harmles. Later i just
delete the message - thats all, or i only delete the attachment. That
is the way i prefer it and because of that i love AVG in combination
with TheBat.

-- 
Ciao
Thomas

Mailer:  The Bat!1.62/Beta1
System:  Windows XP 2600
PGP: PGPckt 6.58 Build: 08 | Key: 0xBB9237A9
ICQ: 121117424 (hardly ever online)
HP:  http://mirror.at/thebat/



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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Adam Rykala]

Sh'mae The,
 
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, at 13:25:33 [GMT -0700] (or 21:25 in Wales)
regarding 'Running TB as an NT/ XP service' you wrote:

Mark

Here's  a  few  links  in  defence of Mercury, which would be my email server of
choice if i didn't have my nice dual PPro e-smith box ;-)

Mercury can run as an NT Service natively, btw.


http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~jaabogae/han/m_index.html

http://www.nimrais.freeserve.co.uk/mercury/install1.html

http://www.chriswillis.com/mercury_mail.htm

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&group=comp.mail.pegasus-mail.misc
(full of useful info about mercury and pegasus)

a

Please note - Contrary to opinion I am not on commission ;-)

 

-- 
| 01 September 2002, 00:30
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://new-wales.net |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- PGP Public Key Request  |  

"Life  isn't  about  finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself." (George
Bernard Shaw)
Email traffic scanned with AntiVir Mail Gateway for Linux



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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Adam Rykala]

Sh'mae The,
 
On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, at 00:12:20 [GMT +0100] (or 00:12 in Wales)
regarding 'Running TB as an NT/ XP service' you wrote:


AR>  Does Pegasus Mail support multiple POP3 mailboxes?  Yes.
AR> * Does Pegasus Mail support the IMAP protocol for accessing remote mailboxes?  Yes.
AR> * Can I view pictures attached to mail messages inside Pegasus Mail?  Yes - JPG, 
BMP and GIF.
AR> * Can I have multiple Pegasus Mail users (e.g, other members of my family) on one 
computer?   Yes.
AR> * How much does Pegasus Mail cost to register? Nothing - the software is free. You 
can license
AR> manuals for the program if you wish, but doing so is optional.

Sorry wrong cut&paste

from http://www.pmail.com/overviews/ovw_mercwin.htm

#  Supports  incoming mail via either SMTP, or POP3, or even both: Mercury's
POP3  client  module  can  retrieve mail from multiple remote POP3 mailboxes and
distribute  it  to  local  users; it also supports retrieval and distribution of
mail from remote "Domain Mailboxes".

-- 
| 01 September 2002, 00:23
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://new-wales.net |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- PGP Public Key Request  |  

Beta testers who lie! Next time on Geraldo!  
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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Adam Rykala]

Sh'mae The,
 
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, at 13:25:33 [GMT -0700] (or 21:25 in Wales)
regarding 'Running TB as an NT/ XP service' you wrote:

MW> Adam-

MW> Don't get me wrong here - I have been using TB in exactly this
MW> situation for a few years now and it works great. Provides local
MW> interoffice email as well as the client/server functionality I need. I
MW> *am* making the case for being able to serverize (er...I don't think
MW> that's a word)some of TB's functionality.

Using  TB!  in  this  way  is  fine,  but  using  a client as a server will mean
limitations

MW> The problem with Mercury is that it's strictly a server. I need to
MW> pick up mail from multiple accounts with multiple ISPs and keep it in
MW> a central place where the workstations can get to it. That's an MUA
MW> function and Mercury won't do that.

Its  a  MTA  function - lots of mailservers will do that. cf. fetchmail on Linux
boxes. I use fetchmail in conjunction with qmail to collect 20+ accounts here

MW> The only alternative I know of to The Bat running in server mode is
MW> Microsoft Exchange Server, and I always warn clients that it's clumsy
MW> and expensive and really requires a full-time system admin to run
MW> BackOffice and it really should be on its own machine.

EXCHANGE...arh

I administer an Exchange server in work

a!




 

-- 
| 01 September 2002, 00:13
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://new-wales.net |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- PGP Public Key Request  |  

I read the FM, and it didn't work.  
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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Adam Rykala]

Sh'mae The,
 
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, at 13:25:33 [GMT -0700] (or 21:25 in Wales)
regarding 'Running TB as an NT/ XP service' you wrote:

MW> Adam-



MW> The problem with Mercury is that it's strictly a server. I need to
MW> pick up mail from multiple accounts with multiple ISPs and keep it in
MW> a central place where the workstations can get to it. That's an MUA
MW> function and Mercury won't do that.

Thats exactly what Mercury can do, and MDaemon too

 Does Pegasus Mail support multiple POP3 mailboxes?  Yes.
* Does Pegasus Mail support the IMAP protocol for accessing remote mailboxes?  Yes.
* Can I view pictures attached to mail messages inside Pegasus Mail?  Yes - JPG, BMP 
and GIF.
* Can I have multiple Pegasus Mail users (e.g, other members of my family) on one 
computer?   Yes.
* How much does Pegasus Mail cost to register? Nothing - the software is free. You can 
license
manuals for the program if you wish, but doing so is optional.

(From the FAQ)

MW> The only alternative I know of to The Bat running in server mode is
MW> Microsoft Exchange Server, and I always warn clients that it's clumsy
MW> and expensive and really requires a full-time system admin to run
MW> BackOffice and it really should be on its own machine.

Sorry, no

E-Smith (Linux dedicated box)
Mercury/32
MDaemon

Do a grep on Tucows for email servers and there are a lot about, and they can do
multipop as well.

I used Mdaemon for two years doing what you're doing

A


 

-- 
| 01 September 2002, 00:09
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| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- PGP Public Key Request  |  

My  house  is  made  out  of  balsa wood. When no one is home across the street,
except  the little kids, I out and lift my house up over my head. I tell them to
stay out of my yard or I'll throw it at them.  
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Re: AVG/TB limitations and issues

[James Senick]

Hello ETM,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, at 17:17:31 [GMT -0400] (which was 5:17:31
PM in NY, USA) ETM wrote:

> My current AV is notifying me when it receives Klez, etc., usually
> cleaning and restoring mail.  Do I understand correctly that AVG
> does not have that capability?

It will catch them.  It's caught every one here so far and I get
a lot of them sent my way...except those that are attached to
nested messages. Klez uses this method as well and it also
happens simply as a result of using your email address to mail
somehwhere that bounces 'your' message back to you.  Nasty little
thing that Klez is.

> I am not quick to "open" unknown
> items but I also don't want to jump from what appears to
> be protective to perhaps a not-so-protective AV program, or do I
> totally misunderstand what they are saying?

I use two -- Panda and AVG.  I use AVG only because of Klez and
the fact that Panda can't scan TB messages for some reason.  I
could get by without it for sure.  But it's nice to have those
hundreds and hundreds of Klez messages filtered for me
automatically.  Plus, AVG is the only other scanner besides
Panda that I have used that doesn't miss something.  I am not
referring to this nested message business.  Rather, I mean if I
put 50 collected viruses in a folder and scan them with several
AV apps, only AVG and Panda have caught them all.  Those others
that people seem so enamored with miss things left and right
here.

> Elaine

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 512 MB RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: AVG/TB limitations and issues

[ETM]

Hello James

On Saturday, August 31, 2002, you wrote

> As Leif mentions, these are nested messages.  And I believe
> nested messages are actually scanned (after all they are
> attachments themselves).  But what do not get scanned are the
> the attachments of those nested messages.  So, better stated
> (assuming I am correct, of course) the AVG plug-in cannot read
> below the first level of attachments.

My current AV is notifying me when it receives Klez, etc., usually
cleaning and restoring mail.  Do I understand correctly that AVG
does not have that capability?  I am not quick to "open" unknown
items but I also don't want to jump from what appears to
be protective to perhaps a not-so-protective AV program, or do I
totally misunderstand what they are saying?

Elaine



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Re: AVG/TB limitations and issues

[James Senick]

Hello ETM,

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002, at 13:49:09 [GMT -0400] (which was 1:49:09
PM in NY, USA) ETM wrote:


> Limitations

> Plugin doesn't certify messages due to a nature of the
> anti-virus plugin interface of The Bat!. The plugin is called
> only on message attachments. Outgoing messages are scanned
> since a version 1.61 of The Bat!

I think AVG normally could insert a brief message that
"certifies" that your message has been scanned before it was
sent.  The plug-in will not allow it to do this.  Further, I
think they may be explaining this badly as I believe for AVG to
be able to do this, it would have to be a plug-in to TB rather
than just a scanning plug-in.  But if you know they're being
scanned before leaving your pc, couldn't one "certify" them
one's self?

> Known issues

> Embedded messages are not currently scanned. According to
> producers of The Bat!, this problem should be fixed in the
> version 1.62 of The Bat!

As Leif mentions, these are nested messages.  And I believe
nested messages are actually scanned (after all they are
attachments themselves).  But what do not get scanned are the
the attachments of those nested messages.  So, better stated
(assuming I am correct, of course) the AVG plug-in cannot read
below the first level of attachments.

-- 
Best regards,
James
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.stamp-co.com

The Bat! v.1.62/Beta1
Windows XP build 2600 
AMD Athlon 1Ghz 512 MB RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Mark Wieder]

Adam-

Don't get me wrong here - I have been using TB in exactly this
situation for a few years now and it works great. Provides local
interoffice email as well as the client/server functionality I need. I
*am* making the case for being able to serverize (er...I don't think
that's a word)some of TB's functionality.

The problem with Mercury is that it's strictly a server. I need to
pick up mail from multiple accounts with multiple ISPs and keep it in
a central place where the workstations can get to it. That's an MUA
function and Mercury won't do that.

The only alternative I know of to The Bat running in server mode is
Microsoft Exchange Server, and I always warn clients that it's clumsy
and expensive and really requires a full-time system admin to run
BackOffice and it really should be on its own machine.

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.60h on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Urgent Help with Selective Download

[Julian Beach (Lists)]

On Saturday, August 31, 2002, 2:28:33 PM, Sudip Pokhrel wrote:

> That's a good idea but I've decided to kill all messages with
> attachments that have OE X-mailer header... serves my purpose :)

I had a look at the Advanced tab on the Selective Download filter, and
it has some fairly powerful options under the Detection Method section.
The main limitation seems to be that you cannot refer it to an
addressbook, but if you can define a short list of addresses, you
should be able to come up with an effective filter.

One option would be to enter all of the mailing list addresses, and
use the Detection Method that "none of strings should match", so any
messages not from a mailing list will match the filter and be killed.

Julian

-- 
  Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 




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Re: Urgent Help with Selective Download

[Adam Rykala]

Sh'mae The,
 
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, at 20:54:43 [GMT +0200] (or 19:54 in Wales)
regarding 'Urgent Help with Selective Download' you wrote:

SP>> That's  a  good idea but I've decided to kill all messages with attachments
SP>> that have OE X-mailer header... serves my purpose :)

RO> That's just as mind blind as an ISP refusing mail with an TB X-Mailer
RO> header. You're sure you haven't any friends, colleagues, relatives or
RO> whatever using OE who might send you attachments?

Agreed

Proper  spam fighting works on consent, not content. Blocking solely because its
OE isn't really that different from blocking on TB!.

a.
 

-- 
| 31 August 2002, 20:04
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Gravity isn't MY fault--I voted for velcro!  
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Re: Urgent Help with Selective Download

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Sudip,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:13:33 +0545GMT (31-8-02, 15:28 +0200GMT, where
I live), you wrote:

SP> That's a good idea but I've decided to kill all messages with
SP> attachments that have OE X-mailer header... serves my purpose :)

That's just as mind blind as an ISP refusing mail with an TB X-Mailer
header. You're sure you haven't any friends, colleagues, relatives or
whatever using OE who might send you attachments?

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Joseph,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:25:56 -0500GMT (31-8-02, 20:25 +0200GMT, where
I live), you wrote:

JN> What does "MTA" mean?
Mail Transport Agent, you can translate it as 'mail server', though
that's not completely accurate.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Joseph, 

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 at 13:25:56 [GMT -0500], you wrote:
JN> What does "MTA" mean?

MUA - Mail User Agent
MTA - Mail Transfer Agent


Cheers,
Leif Gregory 

-- 
List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user)
PCWize Editor  /  ICQ 216395  /  PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F
Web Site 
TB FAQ   
Using The Bat! 1.61 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 
on a P4 1.6Ghz OC'd to 2.32Ghz with 512MB.

Tagline of the day:
Thinks cellular phones are carbon-based life forms. 



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Re[3]: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Joseph N.]

   On Saturday, August 31, 2002, Mark Wieder wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

MW> TB is therefore both MUA and MTA in this situation

What does "MTA" mean?

-- 
JN



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Re:How do you set up account filters?

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Julian.

At 1:48 PM on Saturday, August 31, 2002 you [JBL]
wrote the following about 'How do you set up
account filters?':

JBL> Databug's situation is a little different,
JBL> because all of the messages are going to be
JBL> downloaded anyway so the downloading of the
JBL> headers is an additional overhead, but that
JBL> increase in overall download time is
JBL> justified by the circumstances.

  However -- and not to win an argument -- in
  Databug's case [assuming that the scenario I
  laid out actually works], I would say that the
  overhead wouldn't be justified. Perhaps
  acceptable to the user because it doesn't make
  much of a practical difference, but that's
  another story.

JBL> I use selective downloads in two specific
JBL> situations - as a spam filter on an account
JBL> that gets a lot of junk mail, and when I am
JBL> travelling and downloading mail using my
JBL> mobile phone, when I don't want to download a
JBL> 500K email message unless I really need to!

  I, too, use selective download; I'm set up with
  3 email addresses.

  I use the main one for most everything so that's
  where all my list msgs, tech support *and* spam
  comes in. Only when I can't dispose of a virus,
  have I thrown in a selective download kill
  filter but, backtracking on my own suggestion to
  Databug, that kill filter would have to wade
  thru the heaviest mail flow before d/l the
  leftovers & that's not really efficient.

  H, I'll have to change that on principal &
  see what, if anything, happens now that spam
  rarely lands in my inbox & all infections are
  caught by NOD32.

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



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Re: Problem with attachments being corrupted

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Mark!

On Saturday, August 31, 2002 at 7:40:52 PM you wrote:

> I recently changed over to TB! from PMMail2000, which I'd been using
> for years.  A fair percentage of the attachments I recieve are now
> (since switching to TB!) corrupted.

> I "think" that the Err#68 is from TB!'s image viewer.

I wonder why you should be the only one affected. The only time I got
a corrupted attachment it was actually "corrupted" in that the file
wasn't named correctly - it came from a Mac and therefore lacked the
essential extension for Windows to identify it.

And the few times I remember a similar subject came up on this list it
always came down to wrong extensions, malformed code, corruption
through bad connections or servers.

For example, there is a new file format on the market called JPEG2000.
IIRC, the extension is the same as for JPEG, therefore TB!'s internal
viewer will try to show it but encounter an incompatible format in the
file headers. Hence an error message ensues.

Perhaps I'm wrong in this particular example, but I think you'll get
the point of this thought experiment.


-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.61 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

All for the Love of a Woman. (William Bell)



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: How do you set up account filters?

[Julian Beach (Lists)]

On Saturday, August 31, 2002, 5:33:38 PM, Jan Rifkinson wrote:

>   In the above scenario TB! is doing it twice. Its
>   a fine solution but as an academic question, I
>   wonder if there really are any *practical*
>   differences between a selective download [once
>   or twice] & a single download with filter
>   actions attached.

I think that it does take longer using selective download, but I don't
think the difference is too great, because what you loose in the
downloading of the headers initially, you gain by not downloading
messages you don't want.  Downloading the headers is a lot quicker
than downloading messages, particularly over a slow connection.

Databug's situation is a little different, because all of the messages
are going to be downloaded anyway so the downloading of the headers is
an additional overhead, but that increase in overall download time is
justified by the circumstances.

I use selective downloads in two specific situations - as a spam
filter on an account that gets a lot of junk mail, and when I am
travelling and downloading mail using my mobile phone, when I don't
want to download a 500K email message unless I really need to!

Julian

-- 
  Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 




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Re[2]: Problem with attachments being corrupted

[Mark Bernard]

Hello Thomas,

Saturday, August 31, 2002, 1:59:06 AM, you wrote:

TF> Hello Eddy,

TF> On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:20:06 -0400 GMT (31/08/02, 02:20 +0700 GMT),
TF> Eddy wrote:

E>> - If I copy the offending message to a new folder called "Test", zip
E>>   up the "Test" folder created by TB! (containg a .TBB and .TBI file),
E>>   mail it to a friend of mine who uses TB!, and he imports it, he also
E>>   gets the "JPG Err#68" message. And he has never experienced any
E>>   problems with attachment corruption.

TF> I have seen this error at a few occasions, and it was fair to assume
TF> that the jpg files were indeed corrupted.

I recently changed over to TB! from PMMail2000, which I'd been using
for years.  A fair percentage of the attachments I recieve are now
(since switching to TB!) corrupted.  I get the Err#68 for corrupt
JPG's when I try to view with TB!'s internal viewer (Blank page when I
go to the tab). When I save to disk and then view with another viewer,
I can view part of the file.

It's not just JPG's that get corrupt though.  Since switching to TB!,
I have seen a huge increase in corrupt attachements of many different
types, including a lot of corrupt ".doc" files.

E>> - Forwarding the message to an account that receives mail with another
E>>   MUA, such as Outlook, the message will be fine and is NOT corrupted.

TF> message), I don't think it is a RAM problem either. It could be file
TF> I/O handling, either by TB or by the OS. Alas, it would help me if
TF> anybody  has any idea what this JPG Err#68 means.

I "think" that the Err#68 is from TB!'s image viewer.



-- 
Regards,
Mark  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

The Bat! Version 1.61
OS info: Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 




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Re: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Adam Rykala]

Sh'mae The,
 
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, at 10:24:44 [GMT -0700] (or 18:24 in Wales)
regarding 'Running TB as an NT/ XP service' you wrote:

MW> Bats-

MW> It's not that a "standard desktop application" should be a good
MW> candidate for an NT service, but that certain features should. Here's
MW> my situation:


Personally I would suggest you consider something like Mercury/32 as a free mail
server with multipop et al.

www.pmail.com


In  essence, I think you're asking a lot of The Bat! to act as server as client.
It  can  be  done,  but  I  would  suggest  going  for  a dedicated server - and
Mercury/32 has some very good press.

http://www.pmail.com/newsflash.htm#M332

a
 

-- 
| 31 August 2002, 18:31
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://new-wales.net |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- PGP Public Key Request  |  

I  don't have to walk my dog any more. I walked him all at once. He was fun when
he  was  a puppy. I named him Stay. When I'd call him I'd say C'mere Stay C'mere
Stay  and he'd go like this..(FILL IN THE MOVEMENT YOURSELF). He's a lot smarter
than that now. Now when I call him he just ignores me and keeps on typing.
Email traffic scanned with AntiVir Mail Gateway for Linux



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Re[2]: Running TB as an NT/ XP service

[Mark Wieder]

Bats-

It's not that a "standard desktop application" should be a good
candidate for an NT service, but that certain features should. Here's
my situation:

I run TB on a Windows 2000 server with its mail repository sitting on
the server box. I *use* TB from a one of several different computers
in workstation mode which all rely on the mail storage on the server.
TB is therefore both MUA and MTA in this situation, and it's the MTA
functionality which should be able to run as a service.

I need TB to run on the server unattended picking up mail from my
various accounts in the background. It does this quite well. Then when
I launch TB on a workstation my new mail is waiting for me.

Now...if TB were running as a service on the server then no user would
have to be logged in all the time at the server box and it would 1.)
be more secure, and 2.) start up immediately when the server is
booted. This last has two advantages: it eliminates one step in the
bootup process, and it allows unattended recovery from power failure.

-Mark Wieder

 Using The Bat! v1.60h on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2



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Re:How do you set up account filters?

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Julian.

At 11:29 AM on Saturday, August 31, 2002 you [JBL]
wrote the following about 'How do you set up
account filters?':

JBL> Another option could be to set up a selective
JBL> download filter in both of the accounts, set
JBL> up to ingore messages for the other person,
JBL> so:

JBL> Account X - Ignore messages for Account Y
JBL> Account Y - Ignore messages for Account X

JBL> When account X logs on, only messages for
JBL> account X will be downloaded, and messages
JBL> for Y left on the server, and the opposite
JBL> will happen when account Y logs on.

  My understanding is that selective downloading
  is slower because TB! has to go thru all the
  headers first, then select & then d/l.

  In the above scenario TB! is doing it twice. Its
  a fine solution but as an academic question, I
  wonder if there really are any *practical*
  differences between a selective download [once
  or twice] & a single download with filter
  actions attached.

  Got any idea about that?

  TIA

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



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Re[2]: How do you set up account filters?

[Databug]

Hello Julian,
On the 31/08/2002, you babbled on about "How do you set up account filters?" 

JBL> Another option could be to set up a selective download filter in both
JBL> of the accounts, set up to ingore messages for the other person, so:

JBL> Account X - Ignore messages for Account Y
JBL> Account Y - Ignore messages for Account X

JBL> When account X logs on, only messages for account X will be
JBL> downloaded, and messages for Y left on the server, and the opposite
JBL> will happen when account Y logs on.

JBL> The filter would look like this:

JBL> Account X: Detect by Entire Header
JBL> Signal String: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JBL> Advanced|Action: Ignore

JBL> Account Y: Detect by Entire Header
JBL> Signal String: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JBL> Advanced|Action: Ignore

Thank you this is exactly was I was after doing.


That`s all for now

-- 
__ _  _  __  _  _  __ __  _ _
_ //\/ _  /\/_  __/\/ _  /\/ __ /\/ // /\/ ___/\_
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Re: How do you set up account filters?

[Julian Beach (Lists)]

On Saturday, August 31, 2002, 3:25:47 PM, Jan Rifkinson wrote:

D>> Thats is kind of what i`m trying to do. But for
D>> this I need a filter option to leave certain
D>> mails on the servers and only download ones
D>> that are addressed to that particular aacount.

>   Filter all msgs to your account & move hers to
>   her account automatically via Filter Action. You
>   can re-direct [I believe], copy or export to a
>   unix, TB or txt file. HTH

Another option could be to set up a selective download filter in both
of the accounts, set up to ingore messages for the other person, so:

Account X - Ignore messages for Account Y
Account Y - Ignore messages for Account X

When account X logs on, only messages for account X will be
downloaded, and messages for Y left on the server, and the opposite
will happen when account Y logs on.

The filter would look like this:

Account X: Detect by Entire Header
Signal String: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Advanced|Action: Ignore

Account Y: Detect by Entire Header
Signal String: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Advanced|Action: Ignore


Julian

-- 
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Default Address Book

[Databug]

Hello all,
This is related to the "how to set up filters thread". basically i
have set up an account for my daughter and I would like her to have
her own address book. OK so that part isn`t difficult. However when I
tick use this address book as account default. It still always seems
to use my address book instead. When I write a new mail in my
daughters account I have to select her address book manually. Is this
a bug. It seems to be totally ignoring what i`m telling it.

That`s all for now

-- 
__ _  _  __  _  _  __ __  _ _
_ //\/ _  /\/_  __/\/ _  /\/ __ /\/ // /\/ ___/\_
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Jonathan,

@31--2002, 08:56 -0500 (14:56 UK time) Jonathan Angliss said:

> It was actually Marck that suggested it may be an internal
> component that is not recording the disconnect.

It was -

> ... I'd still be curious to see if they are using a global boolean
> to record a connection though.

I frowned on that thought (although it's a possibility) because of
TB's multi-threading on the connection side. It would be very
difficult to monitor which task would be the "last to leave the
building" and "turn out the light". I would say that as an
object-oriented piece of software I would make it an incremental
count mechanism within the socket class - self maintaining.

> Hrm... then Windows is sending a valid connection terminate to the
> client, and it is acknowledging it safely, and terminating the
> connection. So it is clearly not that. There must be some other
> factor.

The only factor that counts is that TB believes a connection is live
that isn't. Something internal to TB is causing it to think that. We
don't seem to be reliably able to duplicate the circumstances that
would induce it to happen at will. RITlabs haven't a hope in hell of
fixing it until we can find one.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
'
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Version: GnuPG v1.1.91-nr1 (Windows 2000)

iD8DBQE9cNMNOeQkq5KdzaARAnB2AKCfHBhZbGSekpI+pLiTwfqFeTD6uQCgyfC/
3cbGnK7NJf9XwZt3gA4q0FQ=
=yIOU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-




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Re:How do you set up account filters?

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Databug.

At 9:35 AM on Saturday, August 31, 2002 you [D]
wrote the following about 'How do you set up
account filters?':

JR>>   What about setting up a dummy 2nd account w it's
JR>>   own settings?
  
D> Thats is kind of what i`m trying to do. But for
D> this I need a filter option to leave certain
D> mails on the servers and only download ones
D> that are addressed to that particular aacount.

  Filter all msgs to your account & move hers to
  her account automatically via Filter Action. You
  can re-direct [I believe], copy or export to a
  unix, TB or txt file. HTH

-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Jonathan Angliss]

On Sat, 2002-08-31 at 03:01, Peter Palmreuther wrote:
> 
> JA> Netstat might not show an internal component having an open connection
> JA> if Windows has terminated the connection, and the component didn't
> JA> acknowledge it.
> 
> So the socket _ain't_ open.
> the TCP stack does not know anything about it, therefore the socket ain't
> open, it's only the component that hangs ... my words ...

It was actually Marck that suggested it may be an internal component
that is not recording the disconnect.  I cannot however see a method of
recreating that issue without maybe the source so I can terminate the
connection from inside the environment, and trace through what is going
on.  I'd still be curious to see if they are using a global boolean to
record a connection though.

> JA> This wasn't the kind of connection termination I was thinking of. The
> JA> daemon in this case drops the connections safely, and reports valid
> JA> terminations...
> 
> No. I killed it '-9' with no chance to do _anything_. I plugged out the
> cable, so no chance to report and acknowledge _anything_ 

Hrm... then Windows is sending a valid connection terminate to the
client, and it is acknowledging it safely, and terminating the
connection.  So it is clearly not that.  There must be some other
factor.

-- 
Jonathan Angliss
([EMAIL PROTECTED])



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Re: newby configuration question

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi n,

@31-Aug-2002, 06:04 -0700 (14:04 UK time) n c said:


Please do not write to the list in HTML. It is against the list
rules and many of the members here do not appreciate it. Some even
have filters to move any HTML mail directly to trash.

http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml


> I have a laptop and use two different ISPs (at different
> locations). For the same email account, can I use two different
> smtp servers, one of which requires authentication?

No, you'll have to define two different accounts for that, although
you could use third software like 'XRay' to perform this function.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
'
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.1.91-nr1 (Windows 2000)

iD8DBQE9cMkzOeQkq5KdzaARAo9jAJ9krVyHLr9wPmjs5UqQduyWIdCg1gCg86gu
8foz1mbsTA4+og7NEp3A3Fk=
=vy2K
-END PGP SIGNATURE-




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Re: newby configuration question

[Sudip Pokhrel]

Hi n,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT) GMT (Aug 31, 18:49 my local time),
you [nc] wrote:

nc> I have a laptop and use two different ISPs (at different
nc> locations). For the same email account, can I use two different
nc> smtp servers, one of which requires authentication?

Take a look at a companion program called X-Ray

 http://www.xrayapp.com/

This allows you, among other things, to automatically choose a correct
SMTP server across multiple accounts maintained with multiple ISPs.
Not sure whether it handles SMTP authentication but you might wanna
give it a shot...

-- 
Be Well,   Sudip Pokhrel
Sudip  Kathmandu-NP.
___PGP Key ID: 0xD93F5185
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Re[2]: How do you set up account filters?

[Databug]

Hello Jan,
On the 31/08/2002, you babbled on about "How do you set up account filters?" 

RO>> Are you two using one account together, so
RO>> that your mail is collected from one pop3 box.
RO>> Or are you using separate accounts?

RO>> In the first case you can't download your mail
RO>> or her mail without changing the filters every
RO>> time you switch users, [/...]

JR>   What about setting up a dummy 2nd account w it's
JR>   own settings?
  
Thats is kind of what i`m trying to do. But for this I need a filter
option to leave certain mails on the servers and only download ones
that are addressed to that particular aacount.

That`s all for now

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Re[2]: How do you set up account filters?

[Databug]

Hello Roelof,
On the 31/08/2002, you babbled on about "How do you set up account filters?" 

D>> This has probably been asked before but how do I set up a filter for
D>> my daughter so that she only collects mail that is for her, and the
D>> same for my account so that I can`t download her mail.

RO> Are you two using one account together, so that your mail is collected
RO> from one pop3 box.
RO> Or are you using separate accounts?

Yes the first Option.


RO> In the first case you can't download your mail or her mail without
RO> changing the filters every time you switch users, you can however
RO> filter her mail into a folder and yours in another.

Hmm That`s how I was doing things. However for privacys sake and
because she mails quite a lot now she wanted her own account (within
the bat). Most mailers give you an option within the filters to not
download mail that fits certain criteria. At least my mailer on the
Amiga allowed you to do this.

That`s all for now

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Re: Urgent Help with Selective Download

[Sudip Pokhrel]

Hi Julian,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:55:40 +0100 GMT (Aug 31, 16:40 my local time),
you [JBL] wrote:

JBL> The way I deal with these situations is to use a kill filter to
JBL> wipe messages that I *know* I don't want, and then use an ignore
JBL> filter for all the ones that I need to double-check.

That's a good idea but I've decided to kill all messages with
attachments that have OE X-mailer header... serves my purpose :)

-- 
Be Well,   Sudip Pokhrel
Sudip  Kathmandu-NP.
___PGP Key ID: 0xD93F5185
TB! v1.61 on XP Pro|   http://pgpkeys.mit.edu
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newby configuration question

[n c]

I have a laptop and use two different ISPs (at different locations). For the same email account, can I use two different smtp servers, one of which requires authentication? Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes

Re: AVG/TB limitations and issues

[Leif Gregory]

Hello Thomas, 

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 at 15:48:22 [GMT +0700], you wrote:
TF> Security through obscurity? I don't know what an embedded message
TF> is. I have never come across this term in the RFC's. I can only
TF> assume that it means the same as above - a plaintext message is
TF> not scanned. This is no problem.

I may be wrong, and this is only a guess, but I've received messages
where there was a .eml inside it, double click that, it opens in TB,
and another .eml is embedded in that one. Double click it, and you
finally get to the real message.

That's the only thing I can think of.


Cheers,
Leif Gregory 

-- 
List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user)
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Web Site 
TB FAQ   
Using The Bat! 1.61 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3 
on a P4 1.6Ghz OC'd to 2.32Ghz with 512MB.

Tagline of the day:
One live brain cell away from being a talking monkey. 



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Re:How do you set up account filters?

[Jan Rifkinson]

Hi Roelof.

At 7:37 AM on Saturday, August 31, 2002 you [RO]
wrote the following about 'How do you set up
account filters?':

RO> Are you two using one account together, so
RO> that your mail is collected from one pop3 box.
RO> Or are you using separate accounts?

RO> In the first case you can't download your mail
RO> or her mail without changing the filters every
RO> time you switch users, [/...]

  What about setting up a dummy 2nd account w it's
  own settings?
  
-- 
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield, CT USA
TB! V1.61/W2K_SP3
ICQ 41116329



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Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Thomas F.]

Hello Marck,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:10:04 +0100 GMT (31/08/02, 17:10 +0700 GMT),
Marck D Pearlstone wrote:

PZJ>> What is the Connection Centre IIRC, please?

MDP> "The Connection Centre, 'If I Remember Correctly'".

The title of that window is "Dial-Up - NameOfDunConnection" when you
connect manually by hitting alt-F2. The title is "Connection Center"
when you are on a LAN, or if you check mail while a connection is
already established. Maybe Paul doesn't see a window called Connection
Center and was therefore confused.

MDP> BTW - one common error in configuring DUN connections is to leave
MDP> "Log On to Network" checked, which slows the connection process down
MDP> immensely and fails to do anything with most ISP PPP connections.
MDP> That's just a tip and nothing to do with the issue in question.

What a great tip! I just unchecked this box in my DUN connection
configuration and am connected much faster. Thanks. :-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

"When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed
with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed
with explosions."

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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Thomas F.]

Hello Sudip,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:58:22 +0545 GMT (31/08/02, 17:13 +0700 GMT),
Sudip Pokhrel wrote:

SP> Do they have cable modem service in BKK these days?

No. "Broadband" is ADSL. If you are lucky, it is ADSL all the way into
your house, otherwise it will be ADSL up to the main road, and then
switched to conventional telephone line from there into your house.

The TOT (Telephone Organisation of Thailand) has a new chairman, and
he announced in today's newspaper that they will innovate in order to
become Asia's most modern telecom service. So I am waiting for good
news... ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Si le travail c'est l'opium du peuple, alors je ne veux pas finir
drogué...[ Boris Vian ]

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using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: How do you set up account filters?

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Databug,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 11:18:08 +0100GMT (31-8-02, 12:18 +0200GMT, where
I live), you wrote:

D> This has probably been asked before but how do I set up a filter for
D> my daughter so that she only collects mail that is for her, and the
D> same for my account so that I can`t download her mail.

Are you two using one account together, so that your mail is collected
from one pop3 box.
Or are you using separate accounts?

In the first case you can't download your mail or her mail without
changing the filters every time you switch users, you can however
filter her mail into a folder and yours in another.
In the latter case don't use 'Check mail for All' and if necessary
password protect both accounts.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



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Re: Urgent Help with Selective Download

[Julian Beach (Lists)]

On Saturday, August 31, 2002, 3:51:07 AM, Sudip Pokhrel wrote:

> Yes. I overlooked that. Thanks. But how do I define a filter: 'Delete
> all messages with attachments UNLESS they originate from my mailing
> lists'

I don't think that you can using Selective Download, as the filters
are not that sophisticated. The way I deal with these situations is to
use a kill filter to wipe messages that I *know* I don't want, and
then use an ignore filter for all the ones that I need to
double-check. These don't get downloaded, and I can check and delete
them manually once every few days using the Message Dispatcher
(Ctrl-Shift-F2). (Crtl+3 in the Message dispatcher will mark all the
messages for deletion, and F2 will zap them, so only a couple of
keystrokes are required).

Julian

-- 
  Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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How do you set up account filters?

[Databug]

Hello all,
This has probably been asked before but how do I set up a filter for
my daughter so that she only collects mail that is for her, and the
same for my account so that I can`t download her mail.

That`s all for now

-- 
__ _  _  __  _  _  __ __  _ _
_ //\/ _  /\/_  __/\/ _  /\/ __ /\/ // /\/ ___/\_
_/ // / / _  / /\/ /\_\/ _  / / __ / / // / / /¸-¸\/_
// /_//_/ / /_/ / /_//_/ // // // /__
\\/\_\\_\/  \_\/  \_\\_\/\\/\\/\\/___
.this Email has been brought to you by the Databug ©.

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Homepage:- http://www.arkofnoah.co.uk

I hate it when my foot falls asleep during the day because that means it's going to be 
up all night.




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Paul,

@31-Aug-2002, 10:45 Paul Z Jackson [PZJ] in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

PZJ> I've had a look at the settings and can't see why it would not
PZJ> be connecting. It does connect when I send and receive mail,
PZJ> then disconnects automatically at the end of that task. What
PZJ> else might it be waiting for?

The Connection Centre will tell you that.

PZJ> Or could there be another unfinished task, unrelated to the
PZJ> dial-up settings?

No.

>> There's also a tab at the top of the Connection Centre IIRC that
>> shows the progress of the actual dial-up task. I could be
>> confused about that though because I usually use a LAN
>> connection.

PZJ> What is the Connection Centre IIRC, please?

"The Connection Centre, 'If I Remember Correctly'".

There is another tab in there that shows the intimate details of the
Dial-up connection progress. If it is stalled, that's where you'll
find out why.

BTW - one common error in configuring DUN connections is to leave
"Log On to Network" checked, which slows the connection process down
immensely and fails to do anything with most ISP PPP connections.
That's just a tip and nothing to do with the issue in question.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
'
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Ji7N7UJQoEHXunzJAYsPaF0=
=etd0
-END PGP SIGNATURE-




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Sudip Pokhrel]

Hi Thomas,

On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:14:44 +0700 GMT (Aug 31, 14:59 my local time),
you [TF] wrote:

TF> In my appartment, I don't have a direct telephone line yet. 
...

Do they have cable modem service in BKK these days?


-- 
Be Well,   Sudip Pokhrel
Sudip  Kathmandu-NP.
___PGP Key ID: 0xD93F5185
TB! v1.61 on XP Pro|   http://pgpkeys.mit.edu
P4-1.6Ghz 256MB RAM|
_..
create him." -Arthur C. Clarke





Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Thomas,

@31-Aug-2002, 16:08 +0700 (10:08 UK time) Thomas F. [TF] in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

MDP>> Having said that, some tasks are so deadlocked they don't even
MDP>> respond to the abort request.

TF> Do you have an idea how to reproduce this?

No, but I have seen such things happen on dial-up connections
before. Not since early v1.54 betas though.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
'
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6uwlXvyF9kvwwf0Qr4RH3mI=
=bM3R
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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Shane,

@31-Aug-2002, 02:40 -0700 (10:40 UK time) Shane R. Monroe [SRM] in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

MDP>> What server are you talking to? Is it local or is it that of
MDP>> an ISP?

SRM> The server is at Speedhost.com.  My friend also experiencing
SRM> the problem gets his mail too.

SRM> Didn't figure that information was valuable. Apparently it is!

This issue may be entirely server dependent. The vast majority of
users don't see it ever. Since the client software is a common
factor throughout and the operating systems don't vary that widely,
and although running configurations and additional software can vary
widely, these are still easy factors to eliminate. That means it
could easily be a server instigated problem. Something the server
does is making TB think a closed socket is still open and keep
trying to close long after it died.

Exactly what is another question. Until we have an exact recipe
for reproducing the problem there's no way to produce a bug report
that's going to result in a fix.

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
'
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GUnMiYr5WnkJUkBOaIB90v0=
=WtIZ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-




Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Shane R. Monroe]

Yes, this sounds like my problem as well.

Friday, August 30, 2002, 6:37:25 AM, you wrote:

TF> Hello Shane,

TF> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:34:19 -0700 GMT (30/08/02, 10:34 +0700 GMT),
TF> Shane R. Monroe wrote:

SRM>> Sometimes... Out of nowhere ... The Bat just stops picking up mail.
SRM>> Something INTERNAL hangs.  NO visible issues - just a strange absence
SRM>> of mail.  Shut down THE BAT, and you get the message similar to "There
SRM>> are still operations in progress.  Want to exit when they are
SRM>> finished?"  Neither response allows you exit.  Killing THE BAT task is
SRM>> the only way out.

TF> I don't know about the hanging, but it could be your server leading to
TF> the no-timeout-bug:

TF> https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view_bug_page.php?f_id=1037

TF> Then, when you cannot close TB, it sounds like this:
TF> http://www.mail-archive.com/tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com/msg15731.html
TF> or this:
TF> http://www.mail-archive.com/tbbeta@thebat.dutaint.com/msg14667.html
TF> but that was a beta-bug and I thought it has been fixed. Please advise
TF> whether the circumstances are the same.



-- 
Shane R. Monroe
Dark Unicorn Productions
http://www.darkunicornproductions.com



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Shane R. Monroe]

Friday, August 30, 2002, 2:44:14 AM, you wrote:


>>> I cannot recreate it ... and it doesn't happen very often. Maybe
>>> once a month; twice at the most.

MDP> What server are you talking to? Is it local or is it that of an ISP?

The server is at Speedhost.com.  My friend also experiencing the
problem gets his mail too.

Didn't figure that information was valuable.  Apparently it is!


-- 
Shane R. Monroe
Dark Unicorn Productions
http://www.darkunicornproductions.com



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re[2]: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Paul Z Jackson]

Using The Bat! v1.61 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build  2195

> The unfinished task is the dial-up connection to Supanet. This task
> which sounds like it is in a state of failure/locked waiting. If
> your default settings are to dial this ISP, check the settings and
> find out why it may not be connecting. If this is a spurious setting
> on the account network settings, check it out there.

I've had a look at the settings and can't see why it would not be
connecting.  It does connect when I send and receive mail, then
disconnects automatically at the end of that task.  What else might it
be waiting for?
>
Or could there be another unfinished task, unrelated to the dial-up
settings?
>
> There's also a tab at the top of the Connection Centre IIRC that
> shows the progress of the actual dial-up task. I could be confused
> about that though because I usually use a LAN connection.

What is the Connection Centre IIRC, please?

Many thanks


Paul



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[John Phillips]

Hello The
You wrote  On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, at 20:34:19 [GMT -0700] (13:34:19 Friday, 30 August 
2002 where I live):-

> Shut down THE BAT, and you get the message similar to "There
> are still operations in progress.  Want to exit when they are
> finished?"  Neither response allows you exit.  Killing THE BAT task is
> the only way out.

> I'm not alone.  Another user is having the same issues as I am.

Not having the same firstly reported problem as you, but that annoying
"operations in progress", yes.  I have reported here before.

A real pain in the proverbial.

-- 
Regards,
John Phillips   Sydney, Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HTML mail & spam not welcome.

Using Bat! 1.62/Beta1 7BE05C47 - Being used by Windows 98 4.10 Build   ASony 
Vaio Notebook PCG-505TS Pentium 300 64meg ram


I guess a cynic smells different. 



Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Thomas F.]

Hello Jonathan,

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:00:35 -0500 GMT (31/08/02, 01:00 +0700 GMT),
Jonathan Angliss wrote:

JA> I was meaning more along the lines of unplugging the PC (if you
JA> don't mind doing that kind of thing) from the
JA> switch/dsl/modem/etc. But even in my mind, I have a feeling this
JA> won't force the error to occur because Windows will report a it
JA> couldn't connect properly, or the connection terminated.

In my appartment, I don't have a direct telephone line yet. I have to
dial "9" to get, like in a hotel. The building has 20 lines to be
shared by all appartments, so they cut off the connection after 20
minutes (automatically by the PABX computer). This is quite normal in
Thailand.

Every time I websurf and have TB running on auto-check, the line is
cut after 20 minutes. Even if TB is in the middle of a mail-check, I
can close TB normally. No open sockets or running tasks with this
method.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Reality is a crutch for people who can't face drugs.

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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: AVG/TB limitations and issues

[Thomas F.]

Hello ETM,

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:49:09 -0400 GMT (31/08/02, 00:49 +0700 GMT),
ETM wrote:

E> Can someone expand on the ramifications of these statements?

E> Limitations

E> Plugin doesn't certify messages due to a nature of the anti-virus
E> plugin interface of The Bat!. The plugin is called only on message
E> attachments.

A virus can only be in an attachment. I don't know what they mean by
"the message", but since they say it is different from the attachment,
it could only be the plaintext part of any message. Now, the plaintext
part cannot contain a virus.

E> Known issues

E> Embedded messages are not currently scanned.

Security through obscurity? I don't know what an embedded message is.
I have never come across this term in the RFC's. I can only assume
that it means the same as above - a plaintext message is not scanned.
This is no problem.

--

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Die Streichhoelzer muessen gut versteckt werden, damit sie keine
kleinen Kinder bekommen.

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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Problem with attachments being corrupted

[Thomas F.]

Hello Eddy,

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:20:06 -0400 GMT (31/08/02, 02:20 +0700 GMT),
Eddy wrote:

E> - If I copy the offending message to a new folder called "Test", zip
E>   up the "Test" folder created by TB! (containg a .TBB and .TBI file),
E>   mail it to a friend of mine who uses TB!, and he imports it, he also
E>   gets the "JPG Err#68" message. And he has never experienced any
E>   problems with attachment corruption.

I have seen this error at a few occasions, and it was fair to assume
that the jpg files were indeed corrupted.

E> - Forwarding the message to an account that receives mail with another
E>   MUA, such as Outlook, the message will be fine and is NOT corrupted.

Please foward to me.

E> If anybody has the capability to work with TB! authors to diagnose
E> this problem, I will forward a zip file that contains a .TBB/.TBI
E> file that demonstrates the problem I have.

Please forward to me. I will run some tests, but I run Win98, not XP.

Reading my earlier comments again (the part I snipped from your
message), I don't think it is a RAM problem either. It could be file
I/O handling, either by TB or by the OS. Alas, it would help me if
anybody  has any idea what this JPG Err#68 means. Is this a standard
error message (from Windows), or is it a TB internal error message?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Auf einem Bread-Pudding von Marks & Spencer: "Das Produkt ist nach dem
Kochen heiss".

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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Closing the programme; address book and groups

[Thomas F.]

Hello Marck,

On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:57:52 +0100 GMT (31/08/02, 05:57 +0700 GMT),
Marck D Pearlstone wrote:

PZJ>> What is the unfinished task?  And what can be re-set so that it
PZJ>> either finishes, or doesn't need doing at all?

MDP> Having said that, some tasks are so deadlocked they don't even
MDP> respond to the abort request.

Do you have an idea how to reproduce this? Also with reference to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , I was trying to replicate
the problem Paul and probably Shane are having, but I cannot cause a
task to deadlock (any more).

MDP> There's also a tab at the top of the Connection Centre IIRC that
MDP> shows the progress of the actual dial-up task. I could be confused
MDP> about that though because I usually use a LAN connection.

No, you are quite right.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Baseball is 90% mental; the other half is physical. (Yogi Berra)

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Current version is 1.61 | "Using TBUDL" information:
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Re: Stops Picking Up Mail ...

[Peter Palmreuther]

Hello Jonathan,

in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] was written:

JA> On Friday, August 30, 2002, Peter Palmreuther wrote...

MDP>>> I think that the client side Socket connection is left open and
MDP>>> until it is flagged as closed TB won't open a new one.

>> But how to tell? 'netstat' didn't show me an open socket neither on
>> my client nor on my server when I wan into that trouble.

JA> Netstat might not show an internal component having an open connection
JA> if Windows has terminated the connection, and the component didn't
JA> acknowledge it.

So the socket _ain't_ open.
the TCP stack does not know anything about it, therefore the socket ain't
open, it's only the component that hangs ... my words ...

>> And it was done. If I shut down the daemon listening to port 110 the normal
>> TCP mechanisms stepped in and the connection was terminated with an error
>> message, as it is supposed to be.

JA> This wasn't the kind of connection termination I was thinking of. The
JA> daemon in this case drops the connections safely, and reports valid
JA> terminations...

No. I killed it '-9' with no chance to do _anything_. I plugged out the
cable, so no chance to report and acknowledge _anything_ 
-- 
Regards
Peter Palmreuther
(The Bat! v1.62/Beta1 on Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2)

Diplomacy: The art of letting someone else get your way.



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