DEAD HORSE (was Re: TB! WishList)
Hi Eberhard, On 04 May 2000 at 07:43:59 GMT +0200 (which was 06:43 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": When it comes to MP/MDI apps off the top of my head: Pegasus, Outlook Express, Eudora, Instinct, iScribe, Calypso, etc. Notice that the first three are the top email clients out there. Netscape According to what standard? According to various online and media polls and installation statistics. He said "top", not "best". Certainly not mine. But I will giove you that: I will check out iScribe and Instinct. Calypso sucks as well as the "top three". Steve's not saying they are good email clients - merely popular. So, with that said, coming to one of the few /real/ alternatives to the host of clients that offer single-account, multi-pop and asking for just that feature is going to get you a /LOT/ of resistance, especially by people who need that feature. Quite frankly, since there are quite a few popular clients out there that implement it, use them. You have 5 good ones to pick from, have fun. Ask /them/ to implement features, not ruin one of the few alternatives. Oh dear. If I would have known that _asking_ for sth would endanger your peace of mind I might have restrained myself in the first place. I've just decided that this _is_ a bad joke and that you must be sitting in front of your screen having a good laugh all over. Congrats. What Steve is saying is that TB offers a different approach to managing multiple accounts compared to more popular email client software out there. He is stating his opinion (which I happen to share) that to encompass the suggestion you made about downloading multiple POP3 sources to a single account would compromise a fundamental uniqueness in The Bat! which can only be found in one other email client. While his wording may be "harsh", I understand the point he is making - that there is a wide choice of email software that doesn't do multiPOP the TB way and perhaps, if you feel the methodology you outlined to be vital to your email requirements, then you may have made the wrong decision in choosing TB as your client of preference. You have both made your arguments very convincingly but I also believe that all points to be made *have* been made. It may be that Stef and Max, if they have followed this debate, can think of a way of keeping the current multiPOP method but introduce ways for any account to trawl multiPOP sources /as well/. Now: please can we stop this discussion before it turns personal (which I believe it is in danger of doing). So, this now becomes a moderator's "DEAD HORSE" pronouncement and, if you feel the need to say more, please take it off-list (include me in the CC - I'd like to debate it further if necessary). -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/21 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Wed, 3 May 2000 13:48:07 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Ask /them/ to implement features, not ruin one of the few alternatives. Implementing a new feature, doesn't necessarily involve ruining an existing one. A good program usually has many options, in which a user can configure the program to (best) fit his needs. Except the programmer's limited available resources (time money), inventiveness and/or programming skill, everything can be done by software. Best wishes, Cristi -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
DEAD HORSE (was Re: TB! WishList)
Hi Cristian, On 04 May 2000 at 14:32:26 GMT +0300 (which was 12:32 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": Implementing a new feature, [snipped] I clearly stated that this topic is a DEAD HORSE. Please take any further discussion OFF-LIST!!! -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/21 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Thursday, May 04, 2000, 4:32:26 AM, Cristian wrote: Implementing a new feature, doesn't necessarily involve ruining an existing one. It causes bloat which ruins the product. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Thursday, May 04, 2000, 8:22:41 AM, Steve wrote: Thursday, May 04, 2000, 4:32:26 AM, Cristian wrote: Implementing a new feature, doesn't necessarily involve ruining an existing one. It causes bloat which ruins the product. Gah, sorry, sorry. After this was sent I saw the rebuke to Cristian that it was DH and I thought it was another thread, my mistake. Bad Steve, BD Steve! -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Thu, 4 May 2000 08:45:56 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Gah, sorry, sorry. After this was sent I saw the rebuke to Cristian that it was DH and I thought it was another thread, my mistake. Bad Steve, BD Steve! *whistling in the background* Aaaah, the beauty of threading. I used to make that sort of mistake before re-implementing threading. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/21 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "A mind is a terrible thing to ... er ... h? " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Morning SyP, But if you use more than one connection regularly, you must select "Local Area Network or manual connection". And then TB! checks your mail regardless of being online or not. My setup: I have 2 connections I use depending on the time of day. TB uses one of them, as picking up mail is usually a short process and the price difference is neglegible. Disconnect after mail transmission is checked. If I manually connect, no matter with what connection, TB checks my mail every minute. While not connected - no problem. -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42 Beta/20 : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Wed, 3 May 2000 08:28:42 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: 8 The problem is "improvement" into realms where other programs already have a foothold may not be an improvement. Some people say with TB! because it isn't like those products. If people want those paradigms they already have it, why ask for it /again/ in this product? Well, it's uncommon that one will find a complex application that does things exactly the way that they want. I'm quite sure that many who have purchased and use TB! have left another e-mail solution which may have, in their opinion, handled a few things in a better way. If one person asks for these 'pearls' to be added to TB!, it doesn't amount to the legion of requests when many do this. Bowing to all is impractical. It doesn't take long before one realises that unless one writes his/her own application, one will never use a complex application out there that will do things exactly the way one wants. Developing the willingness to make concessions and getting used to the paradigm that most approximates your needs is essential. Other developer helpers to help ease this problem is offering configuration options and other means of offering flexibility. This however needs to be balanced against the bloat and propensity for bugs when too many features and options are added to completely satisfy the userbase. There is another approach which the windows world rarely adapts and that's the modular approach, ie, to provide hooks for non-specific functionality of the application. Examples are hooks for an external editor, an external browser and an external image viewer. This modularity reduces redundant coding and allows the user to use his specialist apps for when that specialist need arises, no matter which application demands that functionality at a particular point. It avoids forcing the user to get used to another applications idiosyncrasies and ways of doing things. Since this modularity is not well developed in Windows applications in general, one can well understand user appeals for changes to what they are accustomed to or prefer. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Any fool can criticize, condemn, complain. And most do. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Wednesday, May 03, 2000, 9:35:07 AM, Allie wrote: It doesn't take long before one realises that unless one writes his/her own application, one will never use a complex application out there that will do things exactly the way one wants. Developing the willingness to make concessions and getting used to the paradigm that most approximates your needs is essential. Exactly. That is why I have taken the stance on some issues of "It exists elsewhere, go there." This is especially true for single-account, multi-POP and MDI. There are all of two email applications in the Windows market that aren't single-account, multi-POP and MDI at the same time. In fact, finding the exception to either of those on its own is hard to find. Based on that fact alone there is no need to request it for TB!. It has been done. It has been done quite a bit. If people want it they have the choice elsewhere. If people want something other than MP/MDI they have very little choices so those choices should be defended rather vigorously. OTOH, there are some things which can be added which would not really cause a detriment to the overall product. This is especially true in some cases because: a: they don't exist in other products yet. b: they exist on the backend, away from the UI. For example, personally, I'm far less apt to oppose some backend format change on the database level because it doesn't directly effect how one uses the product. MP/MDI, editor, spell checker, etc does. How the protocols are handled does effect how one uses the applications. To that end I /hope/ that the suggestions I make and the arguments I present are based more on technical merit and on the backend than anything else. I am well aware that the chances of someone making a client that suits my tastes will be slim. OTOH I also hope that I'm not so far out my suggestions don't have merit, either. I mean my whole demands on how IMAP /should/ work, for example, I think are reasonable. It avoids forcing the user to get used to another applications idiosyncrasies and ways of doing things. Exactly. Since this modularity is not well developed in Windows applications in general, one can well understand user appeals for changes to what they are accustomed to or prefer. I won't say that it isn't well developed. I will say that it is understated because of the lack of understanding of basic interoperability issues as well as programming culture that ignored the advances that came before it. Oddly enough, in the unix world, the basic way that data is passed around is temp files. Basic, easy to use, completely understood temp files. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plop a file down on the disk, tell the editor to edit that file and wait for the editor to exit. However, because of the TSR nature of some editors and the trend to make abstract things which are better left real that isn't too practical in the Windows world. In short, they ignored how things have been done for years and didn't offer an acceptable replacement in the process. The end result is a lack of decent conventions on passing data from one program to another while having some half-assed standards to do just that. IE, just enough to look cool, not enough to be actually useful. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Wednesday, May 03, 2000, 12:34:10 PM, Eberhard wrote: IMHO it is no valid reason to deny this just bcs it would make TB! more similar to those other mailers. Not everything is bad that the majority likes, and not everything is cool just bcs it's different. And not everything the majority likes is good and not everthing that is similar is cool. Point is that there exists a segment of the population that doesn't want or need what is offered elsewhere and when they have a product that does address their needs it isn't cool to come in and ask for that functionality to be trashed to conform to what is offered, quite often, elsewhere. When it comes to MP/MDI apps off the top of my head: Pegasus, Outlook Express, Eudora, Instinct, iScribe, Calypso, etc. Notice that the first three are the top email clients out there. Netscape is MDI and 1/2 MP. They don't provide for separate SMTP server per account and the accounts aren't really all that different. So it can almost be clumped with the above. That would cover /all/ the popular email clients and a good host of the alternatives as well. Now, let's compile the list of non-MDI, split-POP account clients: The Bat!, PMMail That's it. 2. One and two. Two clients there are and the number of clients shall be two. Three is right out. If one goes to three they have passed the number of clients that don't use MDI and doesn't clump all mail into a central location. Four, being after three, is also not the count. Five, too, is right out. So, with that said, coming to one of the few /real/ alternatives to the host of clients that offer single-account, multi-pop and asking for just that feature is going to get you a /LOT/ of resistance, especially by people who need that feature. Quite frankly, since there are quite a few popular clients out there that implement it, use them. You have 5 good ones to pick from, have fun. Ask /them/ to implement features, not ruin one of the few alternatives. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Cristian, On 02 May 2000 at 03:43:42 GMT +0300 (which was 01:43 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": That's a question of (English) terminology, so I cannot comment it further. The programmer of PMMail is an US citizen. I trust his English terminology :) ... and as an English citizen, I couldn't disagree more! :-) -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Tue, 2 May 2000 10:34:00 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Yes because Shift-CNTL-Del doesn't delete a single message. You're missing the point. When I read in Mutt in threaded display to delete both single messages and threads I use one key. CNTL-D. That's it. I don't have to decide "Oh, this is a single message, press D." It is more "Nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D." Were those single messages or threads? Does it matter? Let me put it this way: I just tried it Steve. I am using beta 20. In thread view CTRLSHIFTDel deletes single messages with no other messages attached. I'm not smoking anything. I'm not hallucinating. :-) I'm using TB! version 1.42b20 in Win2K. What is a single message but a thread with a single entry in it? :-) If you insist. :- Why does TB! /NOT/ operate on threads with only single messages in it. It does. At least in the version I'm using; and I say this as a non-smoker. A Non-drinker as well. Sober as one can be. vbg You missed the point. I don't think so. If I hit CTRLSHIFTDel in a thread with multiple messages then all messages are gone. If I wish to delete a single message in a multiple message thread then I hit del. This is necessary because TB! cannot read my mind and know whether or not I wish to delete all messages or just a single message. On my machine and with my installation fo TB!. If I have a lone message in threaded view both CTRLSHIFTDel and del will delete the message. Is this not what you are referring to? The point is the quick efficient deletion of unwanted email. In TB! I have to switch between the two shortcuts to do effectively the same thing. You're also incorrect that it takes two messages to form a thread. I am replying to your message. It was in reply to mine. However, I have already deleted mine. It, however, is still a part of a thread. It has references and in-reply-to. Just because I don't have the other components doesn't mean TB! shout /not/ delete that message. Whatever Steve. I'll not get into the semantics of that part. :-) Looking at it another way, what harm is there, exactly, in having "delete thread" delete a single message? Clearly the user wanted it deleted. Clearly there is no harm done since it would be deleted either way. I see no harm in it. I however, fail to see it as a *singular* reason to not using TB!'s threading as you implied. :-) !But hold on a minute! I noted that the keyboard shortcut you stated for deleting an entire thread is CNTRLDEL. AFAIK, that's incorrect. With the correct shortcut SHIFTCTRLDel, you *can* delete single message *threads* 'intuitively! I just tried it. It is incorrect. Hardly surprising considering my admittance that I don't use it. I just tried it again and it doesn't work still. I don't know what crack you're smoking but it must be good stuff for you to hallucinate like that. Make sure to bring some if you ever visit the states. Mind the dogs at the gate, though. ROTFLMAO!!! Ah, I suspect that you know us for the good stuff. Anyway, TB! does it here. Each beta has at the bottom "And some minor cosmetic fixes". I see from your message headers, that you're using beta18. Could this be the reason why you think that I may be smoking? :-) I suggest that you check. Who knows you may suddenly love TB!'s threading because of this discovery. :-) -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "...I'm sorry, Reality is not in service at this time. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 10:18:20 AM, Allie wrote: TB!'s threading is useless to you for that single reason?! Especially since del deletes the message? del delete message ShiftCNTRLDel Delete whole thread. Yes because Shift-CNTL-Del doesn't delete a single message. You're missing the point. When I read in Mutt in threaded display to delete both single messages and threads I use one key. CNTL-D. That's it. I don't have to decide "Oh, this is a single message, press D." It is more "Nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D, nope, CNTL-D." Were those single messages or threads? Does it matter? Let me put it this way: What is a single message but a thread with a single entry in it? Why does TB! /NOT/ operate on threads with only single messages in it. it's a thread (which I think is technically incorrect since it takes two or more messages to form a thread) and want to fanfare here delete the entire, complete, *thread* with CTRLSHIFTDel. I therefore beg to differ on that proposed piece of intuition. :-) You missed the point. The point is the quick efficient deletion of unwanted email. In TB! I have to switch between the two shortcuts to do effectively the same thing. You're also incorrect that it takes two messages to form a thread. I am replying to your message. It was in reply to mine. However, I have already deleted mine. It, however, is still a part of a thread. It has references and in-reply-to. Just because I don't have the other components doesn't mean TB! shout /not/ delete that message. Looking at it another way, what harm is there, exactly, in having "delete thread" delete a single message? Clearly the user wanted it deleted. Clearly there is no harm done since it would be deleted either way. You focused on the fact that DEL doesn't delete threads. I was stating that delete threads doesn't delete single messages which are, like it or not, threads. !But hold on a minute! I noted that the keyboard shortcut you stated for deleting an entire thread is CNTRLDEL. AFAIK, that's incorrect. With the correct shortcut SHIFTCTRLDel, you *can* delete single message *threads* 'intuitively! I just tried it. It is incorrect. Hardly surprising considering my admittance that I don't use it. I just tried it again and it doesn't work still. I don't know what crack you're smoking but it must be good stuff for you to hallucinate like that. Make sure to bring some if you ever visit the states. Mind the dogs at the gate, though. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Tue, 2 May 2000 09:57:29 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Problem is that TB! doesn't intuitively delete threads, either. Let me give you an example. Select a message that has no other messages on it, press CNTL-DEL. Nothing happens because it isn't a thread. No, fire up mutt and, select the same message (forgiving the fact they don't use the same database, yaddayaddayadda), hit CNTL-D and watch it delete the single message even though CNTL-D in mutt is "Delete thread". Until that is fixed, threading is pretty much useless to me. TB!'s threading is useless to you for that single reason?! Especially since del deletes the message? del delete message ShiftCNTRLDel Delete whole thread. If the novice wishes to delete a single message with knowledge of those two keyboard shortcuts, which would the novice intuitively choose? It's one message so I personally will happily use the easier shortcut which is the single key del. Furthermore, if I use the del key to delete single messages in a thread, why would I look at a single message, decide that it's a thread (which I think is technically incorrect since it takes two or more messages to form a thread) and want to fanfare here delete the entire, complete, *thread* with CTRLSHIFTDel. I therefore beg to differ on that proposed piece of intuition. :-) !But hold on a minute! I noted that the keyboard shortcut you stated for deleting an entire thread is CNTRLDEL. AFAIK, that's incorrect. With the correct shortcut SHIFTCTRLDel, you *can* delete single message *threads* 'intuitively! I just tried it. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Apple (c) 6024 b.c., Adam Eve " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 9:06:47 AM, Alexander wrote: Nah, I don't think TB's threading is so bad. It could be made much better when the _usability_ is concerned, but technically it's implemented very well Agreed. See previous message. *whistles innocently in the background.* Really? then how will you explain that you've just written 2 messages here within 3 minutes or so?;-)) Come now, Alex, you know that is light for me for my morning run through the list. :P -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 9:18:51 AM, Allie wrote: Deleting messages therefore no longer collapse threads as easily and also deleting a message doesn't no longer collapsed the thread. Problem is that TB! doesn't intuitively delete threads, either. Let me give you an example. Select a message that has no other messages on it, press CNTL-DEL. Nothing happens because it isn't a thread. No, fire up mutt and, select the same message (forgiving the fact they don't use the same database, yaddayaddayadda), hit CNTL-D and watch it delete the single message even though CNTL-D in mutt is "Delete thread". Until that is fixed, threading is pretty much useless to me. *whistles innocently in the background.* :-) Yes, we've got history. Hey, I refrained. That alone is cause for celebration. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 2 May 00, at 7:51, Steve Lamb wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": There was also this great guy called Bill Gates who put everything that people wanted into a large, monolithic application. It is now unwieldy, bloated, difficult to use and understand. That's true. The whole reason I pointed out that there were other applications that could poll multiple POP accounts into a single account is to stress that not every package should implement every neat feature or combine everything into one. *I* use TB! because it doesn't combine everything into one single account. In fact it is one of only /two/ mailers that I know of (of over 30+ I've personally used in the past decade or so) which doesn't do that. I find that to be a very powerful feature and would prefer not to have the bloat of the "alternative" programmed in when there are several other decent mailers available that do just that very think. I believe it is Alex who uses Pegasus mail and could best explain how nice that package is despite my personal distaste for it based on interface and underlying logic. I never said Pegasus is so nice and all that, otherwise I would have never subscribed to TBUDL;-) OTOH, Pegasus _does_ support some useful features that TB doesn't yet, this is the point I've made here on numerous occasions. Besides, Pegasus does support separate accounts, so leave it alone, please. As for the polling the traffic from more then one account into one TB's account, this has been discussed more then once here and despite Steve's dislike towards this idea I believe the majority has come to a conclusion that under _certain_ circumstances this might come in handy. Finally, another idea finally emerged, and AFAIK RIT labs are going to implement it for ver. 2. That's the idea of user-defined "virtual" folders that are to contain "links" to messages stored physically in their respective accounts/folders. Much like what happens currently if you double-click a message in the Mail Ticker. Another example is the TEMP panel of DOS Navigator or FAR manager, if you know what I'm talking about. If implemented this way, there will be no need to physically poll the messages from, say, Account2 into the folder system of Account1 as some e-mail clients work nowadays, since it will be possible to mimick this functionality in an intuitive way exploiting the virtual folders. -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: The trouble with most jobs is the resemblance to being in a sled dog team: No one gets a change of scenery, except the lead dog. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 2 May 00, at 7:48, Steve Lamb wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the exact information that you need instead of an estimate. You're assuming he's in threaded mode. I'm guessing as a PMMail user he is not. As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode annoying at best so, as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that mode. :) Nah, I don't think TB's threading is so bad. It could be made much better when the _usability_ is concerned, but technically it's implemented very well (of course I only refer to 1.42 betas, since it's been almost corrupted in 1.41 and earlier due to the limitations of the message base format used). But as a Pegasus user (see other Steve's message;-)) I'm much accustomed to having advanced functionality without nice and intuitive GUI over it, so I myself do consider TB's threading a good thing (having in mind that Pegasus does not and never will support threading;-)) wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially when all users needs and tastes are pretty different. *whistles innocently in the background.* Really? then how will you explain that you've just written 2 messages here within 3 minutes or so?;-)) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Tue, 2 May 2000 07:48:05 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the exact information that you need instead of an estimate. You're assuming he's in threaded mode. I'm guessing as a PMMail user he is not. As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode annoying at best so, as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that mode. :) He spoke of threads in his paragraphs hence my tentative assumption. :-) I've just recently started using the thread mode for TBUDL and TBBETA. These are fairly busy lists. Quite often I see many replies to the same question, with all replies being almost identical. To avoid being a part of this redundant posting, I normally read all messages I've downloaded before replying to any. Threading avoids this hassle. If the message I'm reading has no answer, this is very evident in threaded mode and I can safely answer, even if it's the first message of 50 that I have read. :-) Normally I'd have to scan further down to check if there's a response. When the threads become complicated merely looking at subjects and the To and From info is not enough. You have to actually read the messages to be sure. I can far more easily follow threads in this way. I can easily recheck the comments I made to properly reply to your post here. There are a number of reasons why I've returned to threading after a long absence. First is that the threads are far less fragile and more cohesive because more message id's are kept in the reference headers. Deleting messages therefore no longer collapse threads as easily and also deleting a message doesn't no longer collapsed the thread. Threading by references and sorting by received time, in descending order and the CTRL+] shortcut makes a nice way of reading TBUDL. I just need the back browse button or shortcut. wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially when all users needs and tastes are pretty different. *whistles innocently in the background.* :-) Yes, we've got history. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "We give nothing as willingly as our advice. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 7:07:10 PM, Allie wrote: Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the exact information that you need instead of an estimate. You're assuming he's in threaded mode. I'm guessing as a PMMail user he is not. As a mutt user myself I find TB!'s threaded mode annoying at best so, as an ex-PMMail user I'm most certainly not in that mode. :) wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially when all users needs and tastes are pretty different. *whistles innocently in the background.* -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 10:58:42 AM, Allie wrote: Anyway, TB! does it here. Each beta has at the bottom "And some minor cosmetic fixes". I see from your message headers, that you're using beta18. Could this be the reason why you think that I may be smoking? :-) I suggest that you check. Who knows you may suddenly love TB!'s threading because of this discovery. :-) No because it doesn't do subject threading when deleting single messages, either, unless expressly told. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 10:57:53 PM, Eberhard wrote: Thanks for your kindness. I guess I will stick to TB! despite of what you say. Thank God you don't seem to be the programmer. We had a great mailer at its time on Amiga - it was called Voodoo. On the respective mailing list the author was infamous for replies resembling yours. The mailer went dead a short while after YAM appeared. YAM's author, name of Marcel Beck, Swiss guy, listened to his users. Apparently made a difference. There was also this great guy called Bill Gates who put everything that people wanted into a large, monolithic application. It is now unwieldy, bloated, difficult to use and understand. The whole reason I pointed out that there were other applications that could poll multiple POP accounts into a single account is to stress that not every package should implement every neat feature or combine everything into one. *I* use TB! because it doesn't combine everything into one single account. In fact it is one of only /two/ mailers that I know of (of over 30+ I've personally used in the past decade or so) which doesn't do that. I find that to be a very powerful feature and would prefer not to have the bloat of the "alternative" programmed in when there are several other decent mailers available that do just that very think. I believe it is Alex who uses Pegasus mail and could best explain how nice that package is despite my personal distaste for it based on interface and underlying logic. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Tue, 2 May 2000 11:18:51 -0500, Allie Martin wrote: beta paragraph quoted: I can far more easily follow threads in this way. I can easily recheck the comments I made to properly reply to your post here. There are a number of reasons why I've returned to threading after a long absence. First is that the threads are far less fragile and more cohesive because more message id's are kept in the reference headers. Deleting messages therefore no longer collapse threads as easily and also deleting a message doesn't no longer collapsed the thread. Threading by references and sorting by received time, in descending order and the CTRL+] shortcut makes a nice way of reading TBUDL. I just need the back browse button or shortcut. Full version without grammatical bugs:-( I can far more easily follow threads in this way. I can easily recheck the comments I made in my previous message to properly reply to your post. There are a number of reasons why I've returned to threading after a long absence. Firstly, the threads are far less fragile and are more cohesive because more related message id's are kept in the reference headers. As a direct result of this, deleting messages no longer collapse threads as easily. Another nice improvement is that deleting a message no longer automatically collapses the thread. Threading by references in addition to sorting by received time, in descending order makes a nice way of reading threads. I just need that back browse button or shortcut. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Floggings will continue until morale improves. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Tue, 2 May 2000 11:09:12 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Anyway, TB! does it here. Each beta has at the bottom "And some minor cosmetic fixes". I see from your message headers, that you're using beta18. Could this be the reason why you think that I may be smoking? :-) I suggest that you check. Who knows you may suddenly love TB!'s threading because of this discovery. :-) No because it doesn't do subject threading when deleting single messages, either, unless expressly told. Oh, so there are other reasons. :-) Admittedly I don't delete many TBUDL messages so I have no problem at all with threading by only references at present. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Only those who do nothing make no mistakes. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Tuesday, May 02, 2000, 11:25:13 AM, Allie wrote: Oh, so there are other reasons. :-) Major reasons. How would you like a thread to be broken up into 5 parts and you completely lose your place because of it? :/ The backend works, the interface is beyond the normal TB! quirkiness into seriously subpar. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Morning Januk, Not really. Just have each account set to check mail every few minutes. If you have a permanent connection that works like a charm. If you don't have a permanent connection, it still works pretty well, except that TB doesn't have an offline mode. That is a little annoying at times. How is it annoying? I have one account set to check mail every minute. When I'm online it does just that. When I'm off, I am not bothered. Possibly you're missing the option "No automatical dial for periodicaly checking" in Options/NetworkAdministration? -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42 Beta/20 : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hello Jast, On Tuesday, May 02, 2000 at 15:14:55 GMT +0200 (which was 6:14 AM where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Morning Januk, How is it annoying? I have one account set to check mail every minute. When I'm online it does just that. When I'm off, I am not bothered. Possibly you're missing the option "No automatical dial for periodicaly checking" in Options/NetworkAdministration? I didn't use TB's dialer when I had a dial-up connection. So TB never knew when I was offline or online. As SyP mentioned, it has to do with setting TB to manual connection or LAN mode. So TB would keep checking mail even when I was offline, and that meant it would produce the error sound whenever there was a failed attempt to connect to the server. The error sound every few minutes is very annoying. :) -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 under Windows 98 4.10 Build A Could someone ever get addicted to counseling? If so, how would you treat them? -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hello Allie, On Tue, 2 May 2000 at 12:58:42 [GMT -0500], you wrote: AM I just tried it Steve. I am using beta 20. In thread view AM CTRLSHIFTDel deletes single messages with no other messages AM attached. I'm not smoking anything. I'm not hallucinating. :-) I'm AM using TB! version 1.42b20 in Win2K. G... This is why we separate TBUDL and TBBETA. :-) Leif Gregory -- TBUDL/TBBETA List Moderator ICQ 216395 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site http://www.pcwize.com TBUDL FAQ http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/faq.shtml Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 under Windows 98 4.10 Build A on a Pentium III 500 MHz notebook with 128MB. Tagline of the day: A bunch of bunnies hopping backwards: a receding hare line. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
S So I think the title bar should at least say something like - View S Folder Bat of ServNet Sorted by Receive Time (Ascending) TF ServNet - Bat View Folder (...) TF Why not mention the name fo the folder first, as Netscape mentions the TF name of the web site first? This way, you don't have five buttons in TF the task bar saying "View Fo..." I didn't realize the taskbar uses the same material as the title bar of the window. Thanks for the heads-up. Yes, your idea is a good one, except I would put the folder name first, as that may be all I get to see in the taskbar.So I'll try again (below) for the title bar text idea. Bat - ServNet lots of space hereFolder Sorted by [Receive Time (Ascending)] -- Best regards, Stephen -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:26:38 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Oddly enough it works exactly as you described for me. How is that ? For example, I read my own message, sent in The Bat! mailing list (opened in its own window). In order to view your replay, I have to press the "previous" toolbar button. What kind of logic is that ? Best wishes, Cristi -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 01 May 2000 13:05:19 +0300, Cristian Secara wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:26:38 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Oddly enough it works exactly as you described for me. How is that ? For example, I read my own message, sent in The Bat! mailing list (opened in its own window). In order to view your replay, I have to press the "previous" toolbar button. That's because you don't have the messages sorted in descending order. As I said, 'previous' for the toolbar buttons and keyboard arrow buttons are in reference to message positions in the message list. It's not with respect to message quality. It cannot be, because if it were, it would be trying to read your mind. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Reality is always more conservative than ideology. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:10:13 -0500, Allie Martin wrote:
The toolbar buttons that you speak about move you among messages as they
appear in the list.
Yes, but in the *received* list, not in my own displayed list. And it
follows a reverse logic ("next" brings the previous in time message).
It ignores message listing based on any user defined criteria.
Yes, I noticed that.
This is the only way to maintain consistency and predictability
of what it means to use them
It's the only way now, as the toolbar buttons are named "previous" and
"next".
If they were named "up" and "down", that would be more flexible.
and it's the same thing with the keyboard up
and down arrow keys. CTRl+] moves you to the next unread message as it
appears in the list going in a descending fashion (up to down when looking
at the list on the screen).
I always keep the most recent messages at the top of the list (sorted
by "created" column). The "next" / "previous" button gives a mess, if
the sender has composed a message at one time and sent the message at a
later time (like I do sometimes).
This is a basic convention. Have you met
behaviour in an application that's contrary to this?
Sure.
I usually use PMMail as the main mailer. It has few problems (most
noticeable regional character set problems) and am looking for a (good)
replacement. PMMail uses "up" and "down" toolbar buttons, relative to
the *user* sorted list.
If sorted ascending by name, the A... name is at top, the Z... name at
bottom. By pressing the "up" toolbar button, I go through the list from
Z to A.
If sorting ascending by date of message (created date), the most recent
stays at the top, the most old at the bottom. By pressing the "up"
toolbar button, I go through the list from the older message to the
more recent message.
I just tested: Outlook Express performs the same way.
I also noticed one annoying thing about The Bat!: the blue cursor bar
over the message list remains still as I go further and read more
messages. After reading, say, 20 messages in the list, I can no more
say where I am with the reading by taking a short look at the message
list.
Sorry, waiting for another release ...
Best wishes,
Cristi
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Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 13:05, Cristian Secara wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Cristian, I think you miss the following point: when you browse the messages in a _separate_ window, there is a _hidden_ (by default) message list there (you need to tick View--Message List in the menus of this window to see it) which has it's _own_ sorting order and the settings alike, which is thus different from the sorting order used in the default three-pane view (main window of the program). If you switch the message list I'm speaking about ON, you'll see quite clearly that Next button opens the next message in the _current_ message list, that is, it opens the message right _below_ the current one in the list. The Previous button works vice versa. This is quite logical IMHO, but a bit confusing when one has the Message List of the separate window closed (which's exactly so by default). HTH;-) How is that ? For example, I read my own message, sent in The Bat! mailing list (opened in its own window). In order to view your replay, I have to press the "previous" toolbar button. What kind of logic is that ? -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Cristian, On 01 May 2000 at 13:05:19 GMT +0300 (which was 11:05 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": What kind of logic is that ? "Normal" IMHO. Previous is up in the list. Next is down in the list. This is true of so many item lists. It's up to you to set the sort order to logically fit that universal rule or to do the mental flip-flop to switch the functions when using them. -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Cristian, On 01 May 2000 at 14:04:36 GMT +0300 (which was 12:04 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": If they were named "up" and "down", that would be more flexible. But they are. "Previous" is a synonym for "Up" in this context as is "Next" for "Down". In English, in terms of position in a list, these verbs work *exactly* as they should. I usually use PMMail as the main mailer. It has few problems (most noticeable regional character set problems) and am looking for a (good) replacement. PMMail uses "up" and "down" toolbar buttons, relative to the *user* sorted list. No difference except in the verb used to describe the operation. I just tested: Outlook Express performs the same way. You mean "uses the same verb". TB performs identically. "A rose by any other name...". I also noticed one annoying thing about The Bat!: the blue cursor bar over the message list remains still as I go further and read more messages. After reading, say, 20 messages in the list, I can no more say where I am with the reading by taking a short look at the message list. Then you aren't using the embedded message list in the folder view you have open for browsing. Opening a folder view does *not* affect the position of the "cursor" in the main TB window. Each folder view has its' own message list and "cursor" which can be enable from the folder window "View" menu. Sorry, waiting for another release ... You certainly seem to be having problems in understanding TB's different approach to the software you are used to. Everything you are asking about is there. You are just looking at it from an odd angle. -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Eberhard On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:39:53 +0200GMT (which was 30/04/00, 17:39 +0100GMT for me), you wrote: EH What I mean is: use one account at home, on this here PC. Download all EH mail from different remote servers into this one account. This will be implemented in Version 2... :-) -- Der Immer Jodelende Schweizer In Lederhosen Roel [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Speelplein Aboe http://www.aboe.zzn.com * If in doubt, make it sound convincing. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Eberhard, On 01 May 2000 at 13:31:07 GMT +0200 (which was 12:31 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": I have sent this mail yesterday but it has been refused bcs I attached a small JPG to it showing the problems of sorting with Vew by reference. Sorry for the delay. Thus I omit the pic, of course. No problem. 1-1. Autowrap Doesn't work if the line is changed. Example: I put wrap at 77 characters. I write my 78th char and it wraps. I decide to write more in the line above and thus I push the end of the line way beyond the 78th char. No wrapping occurs. This would be no problem if all I would have to do to re-wrap is go to the beginning of the next line below and press BACKSPACE. Enable Auto-Format. When allied with Auto-Wrap, that's what it does. Nope, it doesn't. At least not the way it should. Try it. Type a line with less chars than the wrap limit. Press RETURN. Type something. Be annoyed. :-) I shan't be :-). I have used this feature since its' introduction many moons ago and am so aware of its' methodology that it never annoys or surprises me. In plain text there is no such concept as a "paragraph" unless it appears after a blank line. Your example is of a continuation to the first line. by merely pressing return *twice* instead of once, TB behaves impeccably IMHO. Additional remark after having read the "too robotic" thread: This behavior is hardly what it should be like. It is neither proper auto-wrap nor proper auto-format. :-( I disagree. It is both - for the specific medium of *plain-text*. That is the medium in which we all write e-mail. Perhaps there is a shortcoming in terms of how a new paragraph can start (first line indenting), but for a plain text e-mail editor, it's the best built in one I've used (and I've tried a lot). It doesn't suit everyone, I admit, but the hope is that v2 will counter this by providing support for 3rd party external editors. The JPG showed a Re: blah0, than a Re: blah1, and then a Re[2]: blah0. I wonder if this supposed to be normal? I'm not certain I follow the description of the problem, but threading by reference ties together threads regardless of subject line by using the RFC822 In-Reply-To and References headers. Order is preserved when all clients in the reply chain follow the correct convention. 7. Forward/Reply of multiple msg BTW, right now here is such an occasion: Instead of replying to the arguments of each single person I would love to select all your replies, hit REPLY and go along editing and replying myself. :-) I can picture it. Sounds complex to me, but probably worth a wish list entry. [snip] ... is there something like Rexx on this platform? So that I can write my own little scripts, put them in a menu item of any program supporting this, and make the program do what my script says? Such a "merge" script should be done in no time flat, provided TB! supports the "merge" command. Scripting is vaunted as a major v2 feature. Watch this space :-). 15. Folders On opening a folder, the cursor bar should immediately jump to the next new/unread mail. Okay, here most of you seem to be of the same opposed opinion. Maybe an option for this behavior could be the solution? Another thing a vociferous bunch of us oppose is the ad-hoc adding of gratuitous options to cluttered configuration screens ;-). Still, this is one suggestion that has started coming up more often. -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 6:43, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote about "Re[2]: TB! WishList": It's already there and is called "MIME forwarding". Have a look at Account options-- Templates-- Forwarding. Indeed - never would have suspected it there in the first place but it is there. Doesn't really do what I meant but is a work-around. It's a _poor_ workaround;-( Instead, this _ought_ to be a very powerful feature, IMHO. It's been proposed more then once that this functionality is extended quite a bit. If it only were an extra menus option "Forward using MIME"... And then, I'd love to be able to attach messages just like normal files, drag'n'dropping them onto the message editor or any other way. This way it would become possible to MIME-forward messages from _different_ folders, which's the thing I'm in habit of extensively using... P.S. Anybody noticed that TB 1.42 betas is no longer capable of producing MIME digests?;-( -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: I'm easy to please as long as I get my way. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 7:26, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote about "Re[2]: TB! WishList": a) Is it possible to change the order of folders in any account? Alt-dragging. BTW, _this_ is covered in the online help;-) b) I have tried the "thread by reference" option. It doesn't really work that well, does it. I would prefer it very much to simply sort the files according to (optional field) and then according to (another optional field). This would save me the hastle of clicking through all the read mails in the thread before getting the new one. Yes, I am aware that for this there probably is a shortcut as well. Threading "by reference" is pretty much a feature that should work _exactly_ as it does. It groups messages with respect to the the following header-fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: See RFCs for more on this subject. If you have many messages that don't have these header fields set properly, you should consider using threading "by subject", probably... 1) I get a mail from pal Joe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]. ;-))) Joe Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] would be even better an example;- ) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Live within your income, even if you have to borrow to do so. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 13:31, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote about "Re[2]: TB! WishList": Enable Auto-Format. When allied with Auto-Wrap, that's what it does. Nope, it doesn't. At least not the way it should. Try it. Type a line with less chars than the wrap limit. Press RETURN. Type something. Be annoyed. :-) Press RETURN _twice_ and don't be annoyed;-) Additional remark after having read the "too robotic" thread: This behavior is hardly what it should be like. It is neither proper auto-wrap nor proper auto-format. :-( And what? The Bat's editor is a bit spartan indeed, but the editor is by no means the greatest priority for a MUA... Use threading by reference with sort by time. That does the job perfectly. Ah, thanks!! Another problem solved ... well, perhaps. If you take a look at the attached screen grab - shouldn't the Re2 be connected with the Re? See above. If the message doesn't have properly set referencing header fields, TB can do very little about it. Try threading by subject if you experience these problems all the time. I don't like this one. It reeks of mangling, is fraught with potential hazards is is far more esoteric than is good for it as a concept. Whenever I have had to do anything like this (and that's *extremely* rare - 4 times maybe in 5 years?) I have done the merge by hand and not begrudged it. Hmm. I have had a couple more occasions... but that's why I think optional is a good solution. BTW, right now here is such an occasion: Instead of replying to the arguments of each single person I would love to select all your replies, hit REPLY and go along editing and replying myself. :-) Will be possible when ver.2 comes out (late May this year was the last guesstimate for the first betas I've heard). Which brings up an idea... is there something like Rexx on this platform? There exists Perl for win32. Take a look at www.perl.com. IMHO, Perl is more powerful then Rexx used to be (yeah, I've been using Rexx quite extensively in my own OS/2 days;-)). So that I can write my own little scripts, put them in a menu item of any program supporting this, and make the program do what my script says? Such a "merge" script should be done in no time flat, provided TB! supports the "merge" command. TB ver. 2 is said to support scripting like this. Right now the only possibility of extending TB a bit is using GNU regexps which TB already supports. If you're unfamiliar with these possibilities, please take a look at the online help (English version of it). -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Never hit a man with glasses. Use your fist! --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 15:58:33 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Cristian, I think you miss the following point: when you browse the messages in a _separate_ window, there is a _hidden_ (by default) message list there (you need to tick View--Message List in the menus of this window to see it) which has it's _own_ sorting order and the settings alike, which is thus different from the sorting order used in the default three-pane view (main window of the program). :/ Yes, that's true. Hm, strange approach ... it works, but ... is there any way for synchronizing the two message lists ? At least the movement of the blue cursor bar ? I find no real use of this hidden message list, as it occupies a lot of space from the window. The window becomes like the preview pane - in fact this is the reason I opened the message separately, to have more space. If you switch the message list I'm speaking about ON, you'll see quite clearly that Next button opens the next message in the _current_ message list, that is, it opens the message right _below_ the current one in the list. The Previous button works vice versa. Yes, I understand now. But I go back and say that the naming of that toolbar button is unhappy chosen. In the new context, "next" means next only in some circumstances, "below" (or "down") means below (or down) at anytime, no matter the sort order / ascending / descending / whatever. This is quite logical IMHO, but a bit confusing when one has the Message List of the separate window closed (which's exactly so by default). Hm ... what's the use for keeping those message lists separately each other ? And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the cursor movement) ? Best wishes, Cristi -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:39:53 +0200, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote: Hypocrisy is the vaseline of social intercourse. Brilliant. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 18:31:55 +0200, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote: He meant that if you are in a miling list's folder, and hit CTRL+N, the new message should be automagically addressed to the list. I am aware of that. You define a template for that folder to add the mailing list address. you hit CNTL-N and it is there. What part of that does not coincide with what he wants? Nothing. :-9 Hmmm. Ok. Place this macro in the new message template for your TBUDL messages folder. %TO=""%TO="TB!UDL [EMAIL PROTECTED]" Now select the folder and hit CTRL+N. Isn't that what you want? This is what Steve was referring to. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Individualists of the world, UNITE! " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 13:32:00 +0100, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: I also noticed one annoying thing about The Bat!: the blue cursor bar over the message list remains still as I go further and read more messages. After reading, say, 20 messages in the list, I can no more say where I am with the reading by taking a short look at the message list. Then you aren't using the embedded message list in the folder view you have open for browsing. Opening a folder view does *not* affect the position of the "cursor" in the main TB window. Each folder view has its' own message list and "cursor" which can be enable from the folder window "View" menu. This may very well be the problem. He's trying to reconcile the viewfolder display with the main TB! windows message list, not realising the the view folder window has it's own message list. View | message list. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 01 May 2000 16:17:52 +0300, Cristian Secara wrote: 8 Hm ... what's the use for keeping those message lists separately each other ? Flexibility? I thread some of my view folder message listing while I keep the mail list unthreaded. If there was only one list then I couldn't do this. And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the cursor movement) ? This is a pet peeve of mine. The cursor movement should be synchronised and would make you a lot more comfortable, not having to use two message lists. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Sorrow looks back, worry looks around, faith looks up. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Morning Eberhard, a) Is it possible to change the order of folders in any account? Yes. Either hold alt and drag them or press the folder view header and it gets sorted alphabetically. b) I have tried the "thread by reference" option. It doesn't really work that well, does it. IMHO, it works very well for the Bat lists. I would prefer it very much to simply sort the files according to (optional field) and then according to (another optional field). This would save me the hastle of clicking through all the read mails in the thread before getting the new one. I think what you might want is thread by subject and sort by time. Not so nicely usable IMO. Other possibility would be to click first the time message list header and then the subject to sort by that. Looks to be okay from the sorting. -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42 Beta/20 : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Morning Eberhard, I open the New mail and type: Smith - and hit TAB. Nothing happens. Typing Joe leads to the same result. this form of auto-completion only works with nicks recorded in address book. the other form is typing a phrase, and if it is in the list of recently used addresses, it will be completed from there if you wait for a short moment. the next is entering full names that will be completed from the address book. I did a more detailed explanation on auto-completion quite some time ago, but you'd have to search the archives for it as I lost it :-( Hai! Sou desu yo! :-D Japanese? I'm sorry for repeating what others have already said. I also checked the FAQ section and previous posts but it was hard to make real use of them since one has to gather the needed info bit by bit from a large amount of posts. Finally I think requests such as mine are just what this ml is for. Exactly! -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42 Beta/20 : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 16:17, Cristian Secara wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Cristian, I think you miss the following point: when you browse the messages in a _separate_ window, there is a _hidden_ (by default) message list there (you need to tick View--Message List in the menus of this window to see it) which has it's _own_ sorting order and the settings alike, which is thus different from the sorting order used in the default three-pane view (main window of the program). Yes, that's true. Hm, strange approach ... it works, but ... is there any way for synchronizing the two message lists ? At least the movement of the blue cursor bar ? I find no real use of this hidden message list, as it occupies a lot of space from the window. The window becomes like the preview pane - in fact this is the reason I opened the message separately, to have more space. I don't see your point. What resolution are you working at? It's a common point that TB is kinda tricky to use on 640x480 screens, and even 800x600 isn't high enough usually;-( But at higher resolutions one has quite enough space to have (at least, tiny) message list in the separate folder-view window. Do you realize that the message list can be resized? You can make it much smaller (I usually have it set to 5 or 6 messages fit in;-)) As for the synchronization you're speaking about, I see no sense in it, since the separate folder window is usually (almost) maximized here, and I don't see the main window of the program anyway unless I close the separate one;-) Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. I find it pretty cool to be able to efficiently work with one and the same folder sorted differently. Yes, I understand now. But I go back and say that the naming of that toolbar button is unhappy chosen. In the new context, "next" means next only in some circumstances, "below" (or "down") means below (or down) at anytime, no matter the sort order / ascending / descending / whatever. That's a question of (English) terminology, so I cannot comment it further. All I can say is that for _me_ (and I'm a Russian-speaker) it seems to be pretty logical in it's current state. It might seem highly illogical for the people that write from the bottom up, but for the people writing from the top down and from the left to right "Next" is usually equivalent to "One line down" and "Previous" -- to "One line up";-). Taken in it's context, a "message" is equivalent to "a line" in the message list (_any_ message list), and hence "next message" is the same thing as "next line of the message list". Hm ... what's the use for keeping those message lists separately each other ? A lot of them;-) In the default three-pane view I usually have the messages unthreaded and sorted by date (newer ones to the top of the folder), with only 5 columns visible: From, Subject, Date sent, Attachments, Read (this is to save the screen real estate for the "Folders" pane, of course). At the same time, in the "separate" folder windows I usually thread by references and have much more columns visible (with much less space dedicated to Subject and From columns). Since the two message lists are independent from each other, I get all the benefits from the both approachs. And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the cursor movement) ? No way. And again: WHY do you want them to be synchronized??? -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Double your drive space! Delete Windows! --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 13:20:47 +0100, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: "Normal" IMHO. Previous is up in the list. Next is down in the list. Next is *not* intuitive. When I am saying "what's next ?" I mean what's new. What's the new message that follows in time, not down in the list, where the newer message is up. This "next" would forces me to keep the list descending, and such thing is out of question. Then you aren't using the embedded message list in the folder view you have open for browsing. Opening a folder view does *not* affect the position of the "cursor" in the main TB window. Yes, now I know that (see my previous message in response to Alexander). And this is *not* what I want :( Each folder view has its' own message list and "cursor" which can be enable from the folder window "View" menu. ... and which folder elements becomes so heavily loaded, I have to switch it immediately back off. The only reason I open a message in a new window, is to view as much text as possible at a glance. I like more the PMMail (or Outlook Express) approach, in which the main window keeps track of the cursor over the message list, cursor that I can see it moving somewhere on other (not focussed) layer on the desktop. Best wishes, Cristi -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 8:40, Allie Martin wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the cursor movement) ? This is a pet peeve of mine. The cursor movement should be synchronised and would make you a lot more comfortable, not having to use two message lists. Nah, I don't like this idea. Suppose I'm working with the separate folder view (separate window), and now I want to look at yet another message _in the same_ folder. Now I just go to the three-pane view, open the message I was after and work with it, the separate window staying where it was left. How will I be supposed to achieve the same if the cursor movements were synchronized? And yet another thing. Now you can open _more_then_one_ separate view window for the same folder. Do you really suggest that the cursor movement in all these is synchronized? Then what's the hell's sense of having the ability to open, say, 10 instances of the same folder in separate windows??? If you synchronize them all, it will be absolutely unusable IMHO. -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 17:59:21 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: This is a pet peeve of mine. The cursor movement should be synchronised and would make you a lot more comfortable, not having to use two message lists. Nah, I don't like this idea. Suppose I'm working with the separate folder view (separate window), and now I want to look at yet another message _in the same_ folder. Now I just go to the three-pane view, open the message I was after and work with it, the separate window staying where it was left. How will I be supposed to achieve the same if the cursor movements were synchronized? And yet another thing. Now you can open _more_then_one_ separate view window for the same folder. Do you really suggest that the cursor movement in all these is synchronized? Then what's the hell's sense of having the ability to open, say, 10 instances of the same folder in separate windows??? If you synchronize them all, it will be absolutely unusable IMHO. Valid points indeed. :-) It's good to know the methods behind the "apparent" madness. vbg -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Live simply so that others may simply live... Gandhi... " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 17:47:53 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: 8 Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. I find it pretty cool to be able to efficiently work with one and the same folder sorted differently. This isn't implemented too well. I can't sort the message list for the view folder window for separate folders. The sort order is the same used for all folders. Take for example. I wish to display the TBUDL view folder list in thread mode but not for other folders. I can't seem to do this. If I set the view folder for TBUDL to threading, all other folders view folder message lists do the same thing. Or am I missing something? -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Runtime Error 6D at 417A:32CF: Incompetent User. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 16:54, Cristian Secara wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Next is *not* intuitive. When I am saying "what's next ?" I mean what's new. What is your native language? I'm just curious, since when _I_ say "what's next?" (in Russian: þÔÏ ÄÁÌØÛÅ?), _I_ usually mean "And what will I get from this stuff? What the results will be?". That kind of meaning. Another meaning (but then the grammar will change a bit) is "What follows this stuff?". This (in the case of TB's toolbar;-)) will mean "What's written in the next message down the message list?" which exactly corresponds to what I get in TB. This "next" would forces me to keep the list descending, and such thing is out of question. Don't you think this is really a minor thing? It's _definitely_ not a bug, and therefore I'd suggest to stop bothering the fellow listmembers with all this stuff. Yes, now I know that (see my previous message in response to Alexander). And this is *not* what I want :( What _exactly_ do you want then? ... and which folder elements becomes so heavily loaded, I have to switch it immediately back off. The only reason I open a message in a new window, is to view as much text as possible at a glance. I like more the PMMail (or Outlook Express) approach, in which the main window keeps track of the cursor over the message list, cursor that I can see it moving somewhere on other (not focussed) layer on the desktop. See my two other messages to the list. I gave the reasoning which makes me think that the current behaviour is _much_ better then the way to work suggested by you and Allie Martin. Further, I'm accustomed to this type of behaviour with Pegasus Mail and must say it's really time saving taking into account the way I work with my mail. -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: When you are sure you're right, you have a moral duty to impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 9:18, Allie Martin wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Nah, I don't like this idea. Suppose I'm working with the separate folder view (separate window), and now I want to look at yet another message _in the same_ folder. Now I just go to the three-pane view, open the message I was after and work with it, the separate window staying where it was left. How will I be supposed to achieve the same if the cursor movements were synchronized? And yet another thing. Now you can open _more_then_one_ separate view window for the same folder. Do you really suggest that the cursor movement in all these is synchronized? Then what's the hell's sense of having the ability to open, say, 10 instances of the same folder in separate windows??? If you synchronize them all, it will be absolutely unusable IMHO. Valid points indeed. :-) It's good to know the methods behind the "apparent" madness. vbg Yeah, this "apparent madness" would become even less "apparent" vbg if one could drag'n'drop messages _between_ the different windows of TB. Usually this stuff is implemented by allowing to "drop" the dragged object to the button of the corresponding window in the taskbar. I'd say this method is much faster and more visually intuitive then the currently implemented (via the menus or the context menu). The latter makes me sick;-) Besides, I'd sure wish to be able to attach the messages like the normal files, and this could be implemented the same way: dragging the message from whatever different place onto the message composer button on the task bar. Finally, this could be made to support the wish I've heard on TBUDL lately: to include the text of any message into the text of the currently-composed one using drag'n'drop. This kind of functionality can be considered as my own "favourite peeve";-)) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: The only thing that hurts more than paying income tax is not having to pay income tax. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 9:24, Allie Martin wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. I find it pretty cool to be able to efficiently work with one and the same folder sorted differently. This isn't implemented too well. I can't sort the message list for the view folder window for separate folders. The sort order is the same used for all folders. Take for example. I wish to display the TBUDL view folder list in thread mode but not for other folders. I can't seem to do this. If I set the view folder for TBUDL to threading, all other folders view folder message lists do the same thing. Or am I missing something? Apparently, yes. I've just tested it (beta/20) with two folders: Inbox and Sent. Opening the folder view for Inbox gives threaded view, whereas the same operation for Sent gives the no-threaded view?!? -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: When you are sure you're right, you have a moral duty to impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Sunday, April 30, 2000, 8:39:53 AM, Eberhard wrote: Now you can say: Duh... stupid, create some filters and do it with one real and one pass-through account at home. Sure, that's possible, but inconvenient to have to check all external accounts manually (or use a different key) isn't it. A different key? HUH? UHM, TB! allows you to check multiple accounts. It has automatic checking on those accounts. You can filter from one account to another. There are also products out there that are better suited to what you seem to want. Use them. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Sunday, April 30, 2000, 9:31:55 AM, Eberhard wrote: He meant that if you are in a miling list's folder, and hit CTRL+N, the new message should be automagically addressed to the list. I am aware of that. You define a template for that folder to add the mailing list address. you hit CNTL-N and it is there. What part of that does not coincide with what he wants? Nothing. :-9 Everything. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Sunday, April 30, 2000, 10:26:15 PM, Eberhard wrote: a) Is it possible to change the order of folders in any account? Yes. RTFM. Oh, a general note before wrapping this one. I am positively surprised by the quality of this list. I had expected some RTFM mails but none so far. Thanks for that. You're welcome, you got it. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 3:05:19 AM, Cristian wrote: On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:26:38 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: Oddly enough it works exactly as you described for me. How is that ? You did read the rest of the message, right? ... What, you weren't aware that the message window doesn't inheirit the parent window's sorting order? Turn on the message display in the /FOLDER/ read window and you'll see it does not. Now click on the sort order you do want and it works any way you describe. For example, I read my own message, sent in The Bat! mailing list (opened in its own window). In order to view your replay, I have to press the "previous" toolbar button. What kind of logic is that ? Is not my message /previous/ to yours in some sort orders and not others. Trust me, it /is/ logical if you /READ/ the above. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 4:04:36 AM, Cristian wrote:
Yes, but in the *received* list, not in my own displayed list. And it
follows a reverse logic ("next" brings the previous in time message).
No, it /is/ in the list given. *sigh*
In the folder view (It is not a message view) turn on message list (view /
message list). You will now see what the folder view is using for its sort
order. Press previous/next and you'll see "previous" goes up the list and
"next" goes down the list in accordance with the sort order set *for the
folder view*. The folder view *does not* inherit the sort order of the list
displayed in TB!. So, if I have descending received set in the main window
and descending from set in the folder view the previous/next buttons in the
folder view WILL NOT FOLLOW THE LIST AS PRESENTED IN THE MAIN WINDOW.
That is the point we're trying to get across to you. It /is/ following a
sort order and you /can/ set that sort order!
It's the only way now, as the toolbar buttons are named "previous" and
"next".
If they were named "up" and "down", that would be more flexible.
Why? Semantics, nothing more. Who cares if they are called "MmmmKay" and
"Poo"? They work as described.
Fine, here, just for you:
"Next" is defined as the next item in the list from top to bottom in the
current sorting order.
"Previous" is defined as the previous item in the list from top to bottom
in the current sorting order.
Happy?
I always keep the most recent messages at the top of the list (sorted
by "created" column). The "next" / "previous" button gives a mess, if
the sender has composed a message at one time and sent the message at a
later time (like I do sometimes).
This also provides a mess when the sender's clock is off compared to the
receivers. That is a problem in your logic. Set it to received, not created,
and it works much better. Don't blame the product for your false logic.
PMMail uses "up" and "down" toolbar buttons, relative to
the *user* sorted list.
So does The Bat! Read what I wrote, do it, and you'll see. It took me a
week to figure it out when I switched from PMMail because I didn't know that
the /folder view/, not message view, did not inherit the sort order from the
main window. Stop thinking in the PMMail paradigm and reading from the main
window for a second.
I also noticed one annoying thing about The Bat!: the blue cursor bar
over the message list remains still as I go further and read more
messages. After reading, say, 20 messages in the list, I can no more
say where I am with the reading by taking a short look at the message
list.
*sigh* That is because you're /not/ reading from that list.
Sorry, waiting for another release ...
Sorry, you need to read what we're telling you and trust that we know what
we're talking about.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
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Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 4:31:07 AM, Eberhard wrote: 3. Extremely important: Mailing List Support %TO=""%TO="%OFROMNAME on TBUDL[EMAIL PROTECTED]" Hahaaa! Thanks! It works! =B-D Gee, and a while ago when I wrote that folder templates did it you replied that it didn't have anything to do with what you wanted. *sigh* -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Cristian, On 01 May 2000 at 16:54:58 GMT +0300 (which was 14:54 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": "Normal" IMHO. Previous is up in the list. Next is down in the list. Next is *not* intuitive. For you, maybe. When I am saying "what's next ?" I mean what's new. Then, with respect, the problem lies in your expectations which seem to arise from a mis-understanding of the English language and its' use in this context. What's the new message that follows in time, not down in the list, where the newer message is up. That is not the meaning of "Next" in this context. Next here is used to mean subsequent; the next in sequence. It does not mean "New". The "next" item in a list is the one listed vertically below the current item. This "next" would forces me to keep the list descending, and such thing is out of question. Why "out of the question"? It may not be what you are used to right now, but it is more logical and more "real-life". If you were writing a list on a piece of paper, how would you keep inserting new entries at the top? Anyway, since you are listing from bottom to top instead of top to bottom then you want to progress up the list - to the previous message in the list rather than down the list to the next message. This is the meaning of the English in use - a fact, not an opinion and certainly by no means incorrect. If you can't understand the logic feel free to stay with PMMail. It doesn't bother me. I'm only trying to point out that there are other ways of looking at this stuff. We all know that TB has a whole raft of usability issues (just like *any* software package - you can't please all of the people all of the time) but that doesn't stop it being the best, fastest, leanest and most full-featured MUA around right now. Sometimes you have to change the way you "used to do it" to get the best out what is available. It doesn't always pay to be intransigent. Then you aren't using the embedded message list in the folder view you have open for browsing. Opening a folder view does *not* affect the position of the "cursor" in the main TB window. Yes, now I know that (see my previous message in response to Alexander). I saw that. And this is *not* what I want :( ... and Alex has since responded that the list can be freely resized and, unless you are using a resolution of less than 1024*768, there should be no real estate problem. ... and which folder elements becomes so heavily loaded, I have to switch it immediately back off. The only reason I open a message in a new window, is to view as much text as possible at a glance. I like more the PMMail (or Outlook Express) approach, in which the main window keeps track of the cursor over the message list, cursor that I can see it moving somewhere on other (not focussed) layer on the desktop. And many here seem to prefer the multiple view aspects of TB where we can open multiple views of single folders to see different messages side-by-side and not change any current selection in the main three-pane master window. It strikes me that you are so used to the lack of freedom elsewhere that you are asking how to remove the flexibility from TB. Oh well. You win some, you lose some shrug. -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 6:17:52 AM, Cristian wrote: I find no real use of this hidden message list, as it occupies a lot of space from the window. The window becomes like the preview pane - in fact this is the reason I opened the message separately, to have more space. Reduce the size of the folder view to 4 lines. No, there is no way to sync it. It just doesn't work in the PMMail way. Trust me, been using it for close to a year now and you know me and PMMail. :P In the new context, "next" means next only in some circumstances, "below" (or "down") means below (or down) at anytime, no matter the sort order / ascending / descending / whatever. No, next always means next. The next item on the list. The sort order of that list defines what criterion next relates to. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 6:54:58 AM, Cristian wrote: Next is *not* intuitive. To you. When I am saying "what's next ?" I mean what's new. What's the new message that follows in time, not down in the list, where the newer message is up. In received descending that would be previous. "Previous item in the list". What is wrong with that? Is it not the previous item in the list? Yes, it is. Well, then why is a button marked "previous" not appropriate to jumping to the /previous/ item in a list? You are making an illogical jump in logic. You're stating "Well, I want to read the next message in the thread so I press next, right?" No. Previous/next, just like up/down, are relative to your position in the message list and the sorting order given. They have no bearing on time, name, subject, size, attachment or any other sort criteria you can place on the message list. They only refer to the /current/ item's position in the list, the item above the current item and the item below the current item. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Steve, On 01 May 2000 at 08:10:04 GMT -0700 (which was 16:10 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": Monday, May 01, 2000, 4:31:07 AM, Eberhard wrote: 3. Extremely important: Mailing List Support %TO=""%TO="%OFROMNAME on TBUDL[EMAIL PROTECTED]" Hahaaa! Thanks! It works! =B-D Gee, and a while ago when I wrote that folder templates did it you replied that it didn't have anything to do with what you wanted. *sigh* To be fair, his answer formed a double negative: What part of that does not coincide with what he wants? ^^^ Nothing. :-9 i.e. everything coincided. -- Cheers, .\\arck Marck D. Pearlstone, Consultant Software Engineer Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA www: http://www.silverstones.com PGP key: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY *--- | Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 S/N 14F4B4B2 | under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 *--- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Monday, May 01, 2000, 8:22:51 AM, Marck wrote: i.e. everything coincided. GAAA. *thud* I hate English. Pardon me as I go back to Perl where I can grok it. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 18:42:14 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: Take for example. I wish to display the TBUDL view folder list in thread mode but not for other folders. I can't seem to do this. If I set the view folder for TBUDL to threading, all other folders view folder message lists do the same thing. Or am I missing something? Apparently, yes. I've just tested it (beta/20) with two folders: Inbox and Sent. Opening the folder view for Inbox gives threaded view, whereas the same operation for Sent gives the no-threaded view?!? Yes, the use default column settings option may be more influential than I thought. Although I can use a separate view for the sent folder, this is not the case with my other folders. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "Some things have got to be believed to be seen. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 08:21:37 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote: You are making an illogical jump in logic. You're stating "Well, I want to read the next message in the thread so I press next, right?" No. Previous/next, just like up/down, are relative to your position in the message list and the sorting order given. They have no bearing on time, name, subject, size, attachment or any other sort criteria you can place on the message list. They only refer to the /current/ item's position in the list, the item above the current item and the item below the current item. How could it be otherwise? :-) -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "My other computer is a HAL 9000. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 1 May 00, at 16:22, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": %TO=""%TO="%OFROMNAME on TBUDL[EMAIL PROTECTED]" Hahaaa! Thanks! It works! =B-D Gee, and a while ago when I wrote that folder templates did it you replied that it didn't have anything to do with what you wanted. *sigh* To be fair, his answer formed a double negative: What part of that does not coincide with what he wants? ^^^ Nothing. :-9 i.e. everything coincided. To be frank, I believe _everybody_ here understood it right from the first glance, _except_ for the native English-speakers (Marck, Allie and Steve);-))) sigh -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Trouble strikes in series of threes, but when working around the house the next job after a series of three is not the fourth job -- it's the start of a brand new series of three. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Dear Bat folk Hm ... what's the use for keeping those message lists separately each other ? Flexibility? I thread some of my view folder message listing while I keep the mail list unthreaded. If there was only one list then I couldn't do this. IMO the Bat-cave of sorting and navigation would more quickly become intelligible (and navigable) to the average user if able to see in the folder title bar what sorting is in effect for a particular folder. As it is, one has toggle/view the message list to recall the sort, and AFAIK Bat doesn't even allow viewing of message list by a simple click of an icon, or a straight-ahead keyboard shortcut, such asL So I think the title bar should at least say something like - View Folder Bat of ServNet Sorted by Receive Time (Ascending) -- Best regards, Stephen -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 2 May 00, at 7:34, Stephen wrote about "Re: TB! WishList": Flexibility? I thread some of my view folder message listing while I keep the mail list unthreaded. If there was only one list then I couldn't do this. snip So I think the title bar should at least say something like - View Folder Bat of ServNet Sorted by Receive Time (Ascending) Great idea! I'd add to this: "Show the Message List when using folder view in the separate window by default", since otherwise, as the practice shows, some users do not see this possibility at all;-) -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: Anything is good and useful if it's made of chocolate. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 1 May 2000 17:47:53 +0400, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: That's a question of (English) terminology, so I cannot comment it further. The programmer of PMMail is an US citizen. I trust his English terminology :) And, again, how can I keep them synchronized (at least the cursor movement) ? No way. And again: WHY do you want them to be synchronized??? There are few lists where I usually read 10-20 messages, then close the message window and like to see where the cursor has stopped. Then I try to estimate how many messages on a given topic are left. Depending on that number, I eventually continue reading more messages (by opening them again in a separate window) or jump over in the list. I am speaking about heavily loaded mailing lists, where a long thread like "Re: TB! WishList" happens at least once a day :) Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. Of course not. Let the user decide - make it selectable. What is your native language? Romanian. This can also be observed from my e-mail address ... This (in the case of TB's toolbar;-)) will mean "What's written in the next message down the message list?" which exactly corresponds to what I get in TB. Ok, but I (usually) think "What's written in the next message up the current message ?" which does not exactly corresponds etc.. Don't you think this is really a minor thing? Probably, but a user interface is a sum of minor things, that makes my life easier or harder. Strange, I am somewhat an experienced FIDONET user and The Bat! follows in certain sense the FIDO message style. However, I cannot follow the logic here, in the context discussed up now. It's _definitely_ not a bug, and therefore I'd suggest to stop bothering the fellow listmembers with all this stuff. No, it's _definitely_ not a bug. No, I *will* mention any problem I like to mention, as far as the topic is The Bat! (or whatever specific topic for a given list it may be). Best wishes, Cristi -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hello Eberhard, On Sunday, April 30, 2000 at 17:39:53 GMT +0200 (which was 8:39 AM where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Hello tracer, Sunday, April 30, 2000, 3:04:54 PM, you wrote: 14. Account polling It would be nice to be able to poll any and all accounts into one in TB! instead of creating more than one at home. HUH? I have this suspicion that this one surprised you Steve... And not sure myself what is meant its hopefully not runing a different installed Bat per account (g) Now I say HUH? ;-D What I mean is: use one account at home, on this here PC. Download all mail from different remote servers into this one account. Example: Say I use two accounts, one for MLs, one for private use (I don't but take the principle). I don't wanna keep them separate at home though - with TB! I have to either create two accounts at home, or make one of my external servers forward the stuff to the other. This creates bandwidth abuse. Options-Network Administration- Check Allow Local Delivery. Then Set up one account with a filter that redirects everything to the other account. No bandwidth abuse, but you get what you want. So I would like TB! to poll them. Now you can say: Duh... stupid, create some filters and do it with one real and one pass-through account at home. Sure, that's possible, but inconvenient to have to check all external accounts manually (or use a different key) isn't it. Not really. Just have each account set to check mail every few minutes. If you have a permanent connection that works like a charm. If you don't have a permanent connection, it still works pretty well, except that TB doesn't have an offline mode. That is a little annoying at times. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.42 Beta/20 under Windows 98 4.10 Build A How do crazy people go through the forest? They take the psycho path. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Tue, 02 May 2000 03:43:42 +0300, Cristian Secara wrote: 8 There are few lists where I usually read 10-20 messages, then close the message window and like to see where the cursor has stopped. Then I try to estimate how many messages on a given topic are left. Depending on that number, I eventually continue reading more messages (by opening them again in a separate window) or jump over in the list. I am speaking about heavily loaded mailing lists, where a long thread like "Re: TB! WishList" happens at least once a day :) Have you thought of using the 'total' and 'total unread' columns in the message list? It can easily tell you how many messages are in each thread and how many messages in each thread are unread. You can therefore get the exact information that you need instead of an estimate. Finally, the sad fact that _you_ find no use for the separate message list doesn't mean _others_ don't need it. Of course not. Let the user decide - make it selectable. So you need a synchronize windows option. At times one wonders where to draw the line between making the best of what you have, and insisting or wanting the program to be honed to do exactly what one wants, especially when all users needs and tastes are pretty different. Trying to adapt to the different approach to PMMails, which I think is certainly more flexible and powerful, is what I tentatively propose. :-) I tentatively :-) propose that you try not to fight the features and instead use that energy to learn to use them to your advantage. You're bound to have a culture shock. This is natural; but the user list buffers this and our proposing different methodologies considering that the tool is different from the one you previously used is only natural. Probably, but a user interface is a sum of minor things, that makes my life easier or harder. Strange, I am somewhat an experienced FIDONET user and The Bat! follows in certain sense the FIDO message style. However, I cannot follow the logic here, in the context discussed up now. I fail to see the the problem with the logic. Do you still have a problem with the next and previous buttons or is the failure of logic in the lack of synchronisation of the message lists between the main window and the view folder windows? -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Stephen, On Tue, 2 May 2000 07:34:04 +1000GMT (02/05/2000, 05:34 +0800GMT), Stephen wrote: S So I think the title bar should at least say something like - S View Folder Bat of ServNet Sorted by Receive Time (Ascending) ServNet - Bat View Folder (...) Why not mention the name fo the folder first, as Netscape mentions the name of the web site first? This way, you don't have five buttons in the task bar saying "View Fo..." Just my 2c worth. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.41 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, Apr 30, 2000 at 01:55:08PM +0200, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote: 1. The editor The problem has been discussed before so I only mention it as a matter of showing an interest in changing the "free carret" behavior. Do away with the editor, go external. 3. Extremely important: Mailing List Support Already there, folder templates. 4. Sorting the ListView Already done. At least I can do it here. 7. Forward/Reply of multiple msg Merge them into one, attach all attachments in the forward mode to the merged text file. Add up all the subjects into one and put it into the subject field. Duplicate subjects should not be added in this line. Probably a good idea to make it optional too. Bad idea since the subjects can exceed the 1024 limit on headers. 14. Account polling It would be nice to be able to poll any and all accounts into one in TB! instead of creating more than one at home. HUH? 15. Folders On opening a folder, the cursor bar should immediately jump to the next new/unread mail. Wo, it should do what it does, remain where it was. Just because there is new mail in the folder doesn't mean that is the message that people want to go to. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hello The Bat! users, Eberhard Hafermalz wrote at 4/30/2000, 1:55 PM EH 2. HTML editor EH Has anyone found such a thing in "TB!"? In version 2. :) EH 13. Add Sender To AddressBook EH Doesn't work in b19. You mean right-click on message and Add sender? It works for me in Beta20 EH 14. Account polling EH It would be nice to be able to poll any and all accounts into one in EH TB! instead of creating more than one at home. Will be in version 2. (I'd hope sooner) EH One final remark: It would be nice if the community would be able to EH take a glance at the authors' ToDo list. YES! -- Cheers, SyP It is only the great men who are truly obscene. If they had not dared to be obscene, they could never have dared to be great. (Haveloc) -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hello Steve Lamb, On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 05:02:51 -0700 GMT your local time, which was Sunday, April 30, 2000, 7:02:51 PM (GMT+0700) my local time, Steve Lamb wrote: 14. Account polling It would be nice to be able to poll any and all accounts into one in TB! instead of creating more than one at home. HUH? I have this suspicion that this one surprised you Steve... And not sure myself what is meant its hopefully not runing a different installed Bat per account (g) Best regards, tracer -- Using theBAT 1.42 Beta/20 with Windows 98 mail to : [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am using FireTalk: 321338 ICQ: on request Website: www.phuketcomputers.com Our special website hosting/mailservers are now operational -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Morning Eberhard, I am missing a two-tiered sorting mechanism in TB!. Simply put, I would like to define for each folder to a) sort by subject b) sort by time created Sorting the message list is no problem: Click on the column header of the field you want to sort by. (as an example). This should possibly be done with any field. It should stop the problem of reading the reply in a thread before the question (and thus save the girls on this list a few early wrinkles). Have you tried threading by references? It works very well on lists where most poeple's mailers support the reference header. And helps when you want to read the messages threaded. The follow up of subject sorting doesn't seem to work 100%. It frequently happens that the first mail _ex_cluding the "Re:" prefix is not the first in the sorted order. The sort routine should disregard any RE:, AW: or whatever ppl use prefix. Re:'s *are* disregarded in sorting, as are Re[x]: The stupid MS-localized versions of stupid MS-mailers aren't,. however. :) 5. PreView 1 The PreView feature could be greatly enhanced by a) letting the user scroll it with CRSR UP/DN even though the ListView is the active window part b) thus using CRSR LEFT/RIGHT to skip messages Might sound strange but works like a bee. It would also make the blinking cursor in the PreView window superfluous (what is it good for anyway?) I agree the current behaviour is a little annoying. But Ctrl+´ (German kb's) for next unread is good enough for now. v2 will allow customizable kb shortcuts. 9. Auto-complete I have found it very hard to adjust to the Auto-Complete function of the To: and CC: fields in the msg editor. a) It should work without regard to captial letters. It does. It just doesn't change the case you type it in. b) It should include all fields in the address book entry that are related to the name of the person. Ie: First, Middle, Last, Nick, Displayed. Are you familiar with the Ctrl+Plus to complete from Address book? Or the fact that entering a nick (handle) and then changing to the next field expands to the full name? c) Does it work with the To: and Reply-To: fields as well? It should. Try it out :-) 10. Cursor in MsgEditor It would be nice if the cursor would automatically jump from the Subject: field to the msg body when I press RETURN instead of hilighting the Subject (what's the purpose of that?). It might be not that useful, but just use Tab instead for now.. 13. Add Sender To AddressBook Doesn't work in b19. Well, it does with Beta/20 for sure. 14. Account polling It would be nice to be able to poll any and all accounts into one in TB! instead of creating more than one at home. I think it's planned for v2, but for now you can filter mails from other accounts into one if you like. All you need to do is a "check all" and set up a few filters. 15. Folders On opening a folder, the cursor bar should immediately jump to the next new/unread mail. I absolutely agree with Steve here and disagree with you :) I have come to like very much that TB sets the cursor where it was, especially with my chaotic mail working style. EG: I might want to refer to multiple messages in several folders and click back and forth between them. Other usages too. One final remark: It would be nice if the community would be able to take a glance at the authors' ToDo list. Would be nice as people could avoid posting similar requests over and over. -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42 Beta/20 : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi Eberhard, On 30 April 2000 at 13:55:08 GMT +0200 (which was 12:55 where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote and made these points on the subject of "TB! WishList": 1. The editor The problem has been discussed before so I only mention it as a matter of showing an interest in changing the "free carret" behavior. As has been said on many times more than one occasion - external editor support is expected for V2. 1-1. Autowrap Doesn't work if the line is changed. Example: I put wrap at 77 characters. I write my 78th char and it wraps. I decide to write more in the line above and thus I push the end of the line way beyond the 78th char. No wrapping occurs. This would be no problem if all I would have to do to re-wrap is go to the beginning of the next line below and press BACKSPACE. Enable Auto-Format. When allied with Auto-Wrap, that's what it does. 2. HTML editor Has anyone found such a thing in "TB!"? If so, does it enable the use of MicroSloth's Global IME? That would kill two flies at once, I hope, as M$ claim that their IMEs work in any HTML environment (I doubt THAT, though). See point 1. 3. Extremely important: Mailing List Support Steve said Folder templates. I use address book reply templates to do the same thing for this list (and the equivalent for any other list I am on). %TO=""%TO="%OFROMNAME on TBUDL[EMAIL PROTECTED]" 4. Sorting the ListView I am missing a two-tiered sorting mechanism in TB!. Simply put, I would like to define for each folder to a) sort by subject b) sort by time created (as an example). This should possibly be done with any field. It should stop the problem of reading the reply in a thread before the question (and thus save the girls on this list a few early wrinkles). Use threading by reference with sort by time. That does the job perfectly. 4-1. Sorting subject problems The follow up of subject sorting doesn't seem to work 100%. It frequently happens that the first mail _ex_cluding the "Re:" prefix is not the first in the sorted order. The sort routine should disregard any RE:, AW: or whatever ppl use prefix. Very likely :-), but with the above sorting, I never see such issues. 5. PreView 1 The PreView feature could be greatly enhanced by a) letting the user scroll it with CRSR UP/DN even though the ListView is the active window part This works using Alt CRSR UP/DN in TB. b) thus using CRSR LEFT/RIGHT to skip messages Might sound strange but works like a bee. It would also make the blinking cursor in the PreView window superfluous (what is it good for anyway?) I read my mail using the ticker virtual folder view with the focus in the message list portion. Up/Down select the message, Alt Up/Down scroll message text and Space bar pages through the text. 6. Preview 2 Related: Change the behavior of the DEL key. a) Optional: Always allow deletion without confirmation. b) Optional: Make the confirmation dependent on (insert number selected by user here) mails to be deleted at once. A good thought. 7. Forward/Reply of multiple msg Merge them into one, attach all attachments in the forward mode to the merged text file. Add up all the subjects into one and put it into the subject field. Duplicate subjects should not be added in this line. Probably a good idea to make it optional too. I don't like this one. It reeks of mangling, is fraught with potential hazards is is far more esoteric than is good for it as a concept. Whenever I have had to do anything like this (and that's *extremely* rare - 4 times maybe in 5 years?) I have done the merge by hand and not begrudged it. Programs are good at following rules. Define a clear rule set for a sequence of actions and it's a natural for a computer / software to do. I suggest there is no rule set to adequately describe this particular wish. 8. Display Headers B4 D/L The best solution: Make it optional, It is optional. Kill-filters *must* download headers first. The Mail Dispatcher also works on downloading headers. With neither of these features active, messages are simply downloaded immediately. 12. Transfer window The circle is buggy. It displays much more relative d/l quantity than actually has occurred. Thus the circle is black even though there is stuff left on the server. I cannot confirm this in my usage. 13. Add Sender To AddressBook Doesn't work in b19. Please report all beta issues on the TBBETA discussion list rather than the main TBUDL. (BTW, it works for me). 15. Folders On opening a folder, the cursor bar should immediately jump to the next new/unread mail. I disagree vehemently. I want the cursor left where I left it. It took me a while to find those messages I'm reading in reference to an issue I'm writing a note about. Just because a new mail has arrived in that folder, why should my last focused message no longer be under the cursor? Phew :-) What a marathon effort!
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, Apr 30, 2000 at 03:15:50PM +0200, SyP wrote: 3. Extremely important: Mailing List Support SL Already there, folder templates. He meant that if you are in a miling list's folder, and hit CTRL+N, the new message should be automagically addressed to the list. I am aware of that. You define a template for that folder to add the mailing list address. you hit CNTL-N and it is there. What part of that does not coincide with what he wants? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:24:15 +0200, Aljoscha Rittner wrote: I absolutely agree with Steve here and disagree with you :) I have come to like very much that TB sets the cursor where it was, especially with my chaotic mail working style. EG: I might want to refer to multiple messages in several folders and click back and forth between them. Other usages too. Sorry, but I agree with Eberhard :-) with an additional point. It should be possible to customize this for different folders. Cursor holding is nice, but TB close all threats if I change between folders. So the cursor holding is a little bit useless for me. Wo there. If you have a message deep within a thread selected and you change to a folder and back, all threads will be closed *except* the one in which you had selected a message before moving to another folder. TB! therefore maintains the message selection position even with the threaded view. Ok, we have different ways to read messages. I've different ways to read messages in different folders (mailing lists, mailing lists with bad references, normal incoming messages). Some folders are sorted by date or threading or names! New messages are spread all over the folder. Yes, I can jump to the next new message. But this "next" message is sometimes the last because the last (read) focused message is on bottom. Press Ctrl+] and it takes you to the next unread message even if you have the last message in the folder selected. The next unread message searcher cycles through the folder and doesn't stop at the end of the message list. I find this to be good. If only I could get a single key shortcut for this. -- © 2000 Allie Martin /*\ Using TB! v1.42 Beta/20 on Win2k Pro --- Urghm! - "EXPANSION SLOTS: The extra holes in your belt buckle. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
Hi there! On 30 Apr 00, at 15:15, SyP wrote about "Re[2]: TB! WishList": 7. Forward/Reply of multiple msg Merge them into one, attach all attachments in the forward mode to the merged text file. Add up all the subjects into one and put it into the subject field. Duplicate subjects should not be added in this line. Probably a good idea to make it optional too. SL Bad idea since the subjects can exceed the 1024 limit on headers. Not really, since in this case the subject line can span through several lines, see RFCs. But in general I do agree that this proposition isn't good enough to be implemented. I'd better see the "multi-message" macros. Say, you've got N messages highlighted, press Reply, and %OSomething macros expand to arrays of the corresponding items for _all_ the messages selected;-) This way it would be possible to mimick the suggested behaviour, too;-) I don't like this subject thing too, but a way to forward more than one message at once would be cool. (and exporting the messages to .MSG files and attaching doesn't count!) It's already there and is called "MIME forwarding". Have a look at Account options-- Templates-- Forwarding. The only problem is that this needs to be set on account level, whereas it _should_ be implemented on a per-message (sic!) level. -- SY, Alex (St.Petersburg, Russia) http://mph.phys.spbu.ru/~akiselev --- Thought for the day: If you don't like the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question. --- PGP public keys on keyservers: 0xA2194BF9 (RSA); 0x214135A2 (DH/DSS) fingerprints: F222 4AEF EC9F 5FA6 7515 910A 2429 9CB1 (RSA) A677 81C9 48CF 16D1 B589 9D33 E7D5 675F 2141 35A2 (DH/DSS) --- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: TB! WishList
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:24:15 +0200, Aljoscha Rittner wrote:
Yes, I can jump to the next new message. But this "next" [...]
Strange concept for this "next".
When opening a message in separate window, there are two icons with
envelopes and two arrows - left and right. The mouse popup says
"previous" and "next".
Previous ? Next ? In what sense ?
For me, if sorting by date, "next" should be the more recent message -
no, this does not happens.
If sorting by name, "next" should be next letter in that field - yes,
it happens.
If sorting by subject, "next" should be next letter in that field - no,
this does not happens.
It were more intuitive "up" and "down", meaning moving the marker up or
down in the main messages list.
This should be independent in respect for the ascending or descending
sort order ("up" should be a physical "up" in that list).
Alternatively, let the user define what "next" means.
In short, at present, I find it unusable.
Best wishes,
Cristi
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Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, 01 May 2000 02:52:40 +0300, Cristian Secara wrote:
Strange concept for this "next". When opening a message in separate
window, there are two icons with envelopes and two arrows - left and
right. The mouse popup says "previous" and "next".
Previous ? Next ? In what sense ?
For me, if sorting by date, "next" should be the more recent message -
no, this does not happens.
If sorting by name, "next" should be next letter in that field - yes,
it happens.
If sorting by subject, "next" should be next letter in that field - no,
this does not happens.
It were more intuitive "up" and "down", meaning moving the marker up or
down in the main messages list.
This should be independent in respect for the ascending or descending
sort order ("up" should be a physical "up" in that list).
Alternatively, let the user define what "next" means.
In short, at present, I find it unusable.
The toolbar buttons that you speak about move you among messages as they
appear in the list. It ignores message listing based on any user defined
criteria. This is the only way to maintain consistency and predictability
of what it means to use them and it's the same thing with the keyboard up
and down arrow keys. CTRl+] moves you to the next unread message as it
appears in the list going in a descending fashion (up to down when looking
at the list on the screen). This is a basic convention. Have you met
behaviour in an application that's contrary to this?
I manipulate the sort order so that the navigational keys assist me best.
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Re: TB! WishList
On Mon, May 01, 2000 at 02:52:40AM +0300, Cristian Secara wrote: In short, at present, I find it unusable. Oddly enough it works exactly as you described for me. ... What, you weren't aware that the message window doesn't inheirit the parent window's sorting order? Turn on the message display in the /FOLDER/ read window and you'll see it does not. Now click on the sort order you do want and it works any way you describe. *POOF* The Bat! read your mind again. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
