Re: [Texascavers] TSA's Fall Business Meeting Sunday 10/16 at 9 a.m. at TCR

[Carl Kunath]

Registration link closed at 08:00 Thursday!

On Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:09 PM Jessica Gordon  wrote:

> TSA's Fall Business Meeting will be this Sunday (16 October) at TCR at
> 9 a.m. in the Dining Hall.
>
> Here is the link to pre-register for TCR (this option closes at midnight
> on Thursday):
>
> www.cavetexas.org/tcr2022?fbclid=IwAR046aDQn1Y2OeyHtGgjV8i1Cqn_9O2vVXHugcXFT_vck0AKJZgJoOhcAo8
>
> Hope to see you at TCR!
>
> Jessica
>
>
> --
> Jessica Gordon
> Chairman, Texas Speleological Association
> chair...@cavetexas.org
> www.cavetexas.org
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[Texascavers] Larry Williams obituary

[Carl Kunath]

The Obituary for Larry Williams was surprising in that it does not mention
his involvement with the Sul Ross caving community.  In fact, Larry (along
with his wife, Elaine) was a stalwart member of the caving group and served
at least one term as its president.  He was the author of most of their
trip reports for the *Texas Caver*.  It is no exaggeration to claim that he
was a mainstay of west Texas caving in the early 1970s.  The Sul Ross
cavers gradually dissolved with time but Larry maintained at least a small
interest in caving and with some of his former companions.



The obituary rightfully describes him as a thoughtful, caring person.  When
the Sul Ross cavers had a reunion in 2004, they rented the Terlingua-Study
Butte community center.  On Saturday evening of the get-together there was
a serious rain and the building suffered the result of many muddy foot
prints.  Sunday, when nearly everyone was on the road home, Larry and
Elaine were on hand wielding mops to help clean the place.  No one asked
him --- he saw what was needed and pitched in to help.  I remember him for
that AND for his memorable moustache!



===Carl Kunath
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[Texascavers] Kaver Komix

[Carl Kunath]

In 2004, I donated a pristine copy of Kaver Komix to the TCMA auction.
Bidding was spirited.  The hammer fell at $106.

===Carl Kunath


On Dec 28, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Bill Steele  wrote:
  I along with Charlie Loving care, Bill Elliott (spelled Elliott). I proudly 
own a pristine copy of Kaver Komix from said 50 years ago, and I will donate it 
to next year’s TCMA auction as long as no children are within earshot when the 
auctioneer reveals what action takes place within its pages.

  Caring,

  Bill Steele
  irving, Texas
  speleoste...@aol.com





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[Texascavers] Ernie's remains?

[Carl Kunath]

Tina, that’s a good question.
Perhaps those who know will join this discussion.
===Carl

From: Tina M
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2021 6:25 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Ernie Garza, Part 2

Hi Carl--

Did all of Ernie get dispersed?  Or are there still some vials waiting to go?

--Tina

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:22 PM Carl Kunath  wrote:



  Many of you were friends of Ernie Garza or at least knew him by reputation.  
Ernie was a traveler and a fixture in the

  Texas/Mexico caving community for decades.



  When Ernie passed, his Earthly remains were cremated and disbursed into 
dozens of small glass vials.

  A Memorial for Ernie was displayed at the next Texas Caver Reunion with the 
request that those interested were invited to

  “Take some Ernie and help him have more adventures.”




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Re: [Texascavers] Dead Dog Cave development

[Carl Kunath]

Jerry:
Thanks for the excellent summary of the Dead Dog cave(s).
===Carl Kunath





From: Jerry
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 1:26 AM
To: trog...@cavechat.org ; texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: jeffreynnich...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Dead Dog Cave development

Hi folks,



Before anyone decides to go off a bit half-cocked to defend the Dead Dog caves, 
here's what we do and don't know about them.



There were 6 Dead Dog caves, all discovered in the 1950s-1960s. The main cave, 
Dead Dog Cave No. 2 (aka Dead Dog Cave) was the best known and most notorious 
of the lot. A lot of cavers and local kids have history there. It's also not 
located on the Luby's property but is definitively on TxDOT property to the 
east of the Luby's  property line.



Dead Dog Caves No. 4 and 5 are definitely located off the Luby's property to 
the west. They've also been covered over or destroyed by road and utility 
construction.



That leaves Dead Dog Caves No. 1, No. 3, and No. 6.



Dead Dog Cave No. 3 was a little feature with air blowing out of breakdown. 
It's location was never well established and no one knows where it was located 
with respect to the Luby's property other than a vague reference to it being NW 
of Dead Dog Cave No. 2. It was reportedly covered over or destroyed in 1971.



Dead Dog Cave No. 6 was even less well documented. It's claim to fame was a 
skunk and a white-throated salamander that were observed in the cave. It's 
location was never well established and no one knows where it was located with 
respect to the Luby's property other than  an even vaguer reference to it being 
NNW of Dead Dog Cave No. 2. There is no information as to whether it was 
covered over or destroyed.



That leaves Dead Dog Cave No. 1.  Of all the Dead Dog caves, this is the only 
one that has a realistic possibility of underlying the Luby's property and 
being discoverable. The cave was located about 30 feet east of the back 
property line of the Luby’s Cafeteria. The cave was approximately 120 ft long 
and 15 ft deep. After construction of the Luby's, there was no evidence of 
where the cave might be located. It was thought that the cave was buried under 
either the asphalt driveway/parking lot of the cafeteria or the back roadway 
leading to the Westpark office complex.



And that's the rest of the story..


Jerry Atkinson.



-Original Message-
From: Heather Tucek 
To: Texas Cavers 
Cc: Jeff Nichols (jeffreynnich...@gmail.com) 
Sent: Sun, Aug 15, 2021 6:14 pm
Subject: [Texascavers] Dead Dog Cave development


Last minute notice from the TSA Conservation Committee:

Development is being proposed at the site of the now closed Luby's Restaurant 
on Mopac Expressway in Austin. There are several caves under the site 
collectively referred to as the “Dead Dog Caves”. It is possible that these 
caves will be filled in during construction. The City Zoning and Planning 
Commission is having a meeting on Tuesday August 17th and this development is 
on the agenda. Citizens can apply to speak at this meeting via phone so anyone 
with extensive knowledge of these caves should consider making some remarks. 
Anyone can watch the meeting remotely.

Link to the Meeting:
http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=365503
Sign up by noon Monday, August 16 to be able to speak with the representatives:
http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=365503
Information about the site and permit:
http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=365455

--

Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
TSA Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
members...@cavetexas.org


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Re: [Texascavers] High Adventure

[Carl Kunath]

Great report, Mark!  Please give us more!
===Carl Kunath

From: Mark Minton
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 4:42 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com ; swrcav...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Texascavers] High Adventure

Last March Bob Alderson, Yvonne Droms, and I joined Dwight Livingston on his 
expedition to Carlsbad Cavern. We did a lot of bolt climbing and discovered 
significant upper-level passages. I wrote an article for Inside Earth, the NPS 
Cave and karst newsletter. You can read it here: 
<https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/high-adventure-in-carlsbad-cavern.htm>.



Mark Minton




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[Texascavers] James Jasek Sunday doctor update

[Carl Kunath]

Mimi, thanks for that update.  I'm sure everyone is pleased to have that 
cautiously optimistic/favorable report.
Please continue to keep us informed as you negotiate the somewhat bumpy road 
ahead.
Tell Jim we all have him in our thoughts.  We hope for a speedy recovery for 
him and minimal stress for you.

===Carl Kunath



-Original Message- 
From: Mimi Jasek

Sunday, May 10, 2020 3:08 PM

Subject:  James Jasek Sunday doctor update


Still on IV, total liquid diet, but can swallow, and this is improving. Is 
more alert, moving better, speech better, and WANTS OUT TO GO HOME!!


He is strong, stubborn, and wants to get home, so please keep lifting us up 
with prayer and positive thoughts.

Good time and great food coming my way ❤️

Mimi Jasek
mjca...@gmail.com
254-495-0416



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Re: [Texascavers] Historical Question

[Carl Kunath]

Chris:
Is it still your favorite photo despite not being Helmer?
===ck

From: Chris Vreeland
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 10:06 PM
To: Chris Vreeland
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Historical Question

Oh hell, I just got out my book & the photo is of Jack Smith, page 504 of 50 
Years of Texas Caving - not Helmer.


  On Apr 24, 2020, at 9:59 PM, Chris Vreeland  wrote:


  
  Kunath’s photo of Helmer titled “May Nothing You Dismay” is probably my 
favorite caving photo ever taken.



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Re: [Texascavers] Historical Question Re: Pogo

[Carl Kunath]

I’ll check.
===ck

From: Katherine Arens
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 1:38 PM
To: Texascavers
Cc: searos...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Historical Question Re: Pogo

Carl,
the TSS archive is presently in boxes, preparatory for the move.  Does someone 
have a copy of that Reunion publication that could be pdf’ed and circulated?  I 
could do the work if i could get my hands on it
k



  On Apr 24, 2020, at 12:59 PM, Carl Kunath  wrote:

  What about the Pogo cartoon?

  That’s an obscure question and has caused several rather ill-informed 
conjectures.
  Without delving into detail, here’s the core of the story:

  That cartoon was a brief moment of fame for the UT cavers.  When the guide 
book was in preparation for the first UT Grotto reunion in 1994, organizers 
Mona Hanna and Bill Cronenwett contacted Walt Kelly for permission to reproduce 
some of those cartoons in the guide book.  Permission was granted with no 
significant strings attached.

  There is a copy of the 1994 guide book in the TSS archives.  A photo of the 
1994 reunion is on page 136 of the book 50 Years Of Texas Caving.

  There were two subsequent UT caver reunions in 2004 and 2015 but no guide 
books were prepared.  There is a significant photographic record of the events. 
 The 2004 Reunion group is pictured on page 498 of the 50 Years book.  Of that 
group, five are known to have recently died.

  Although Bill Helmer was around at the time, he was not involved and the 
topic of his photographs is an unrelated sidebar.

  ===Carl Kunath



  From: kara posso
  Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 7:48 AM
  To: Cave Tex ; searos...@gmail.com
  Subject: [Texascavers] Historical Question

  Hello Everyone,

  Below is a message i received from a fellow through the grotto email the 
other day. I thought that he would have better luck solving his mystery with 
the help of all of you since my institutional knowledge does not go back this 
far. Ross is included on this email, please reply to hum or remember to hit 
REPLY ALL to keep him on the email chain since he is not signed up on the 
listserve.

  Also Ross, if there is anyway you can share the comic strip (or part of it) i 
am sure people would be interested to see!

  Thanks folks!
  Kara


My name is Ross Burns, and several people on Facebook suggested that I post 
this question to your group.It concerns spelunking in the Austin area in the 
period of 1953-54.

I am a fan of the old Pogo comic strips by Walt Kelly. He frequently 
mentions real people. events, and groups in the strip. I have been reading a 
recent re-issue of the strips for 1955 and 1956. In a storyline  he published 
beginning in January of 1955, he repeatedly mentions the University of Texas 
Spelunking Team. Partly I know that he loved to play with words including 
spelunking. However the repeated mention of UT and Texas over 2 or 3 months, 
makes me wonder if there was a particular event that he was referring to.  Some 
of the characters are trying to reach the team to help rescue a frog that was 
swallowed by Albert the alligator. So, it may have been some sort of rescue or 
similar event.

Since Kelly wrote the strips well ahead of publication date, he probably 
started this storyline in November or December of 1954.

I would appreciate any information that you might be able to shed on this 
mystery.

Thank you for your time and attention.

Ross Burns



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  This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<
  matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf.<<


Katherine Arens, ProfessorPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
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  ./'.|'.'\

[Texascavers] Historical Question Re: Pogo

[Carl Kunath]

What about the Pogo cartoon?

That’s an obscure question and has caused several rather ill-informed 
conjectures.
Without delving into detail, here’s the core of the story:

That cartoon was a brief moment of fame for the UT cavers.  When the guide book 
was in preparation for the first UT Grotto reunion in 1994, organizers Mona 
Hanna and Bill Cronenwett contacted Walt Kelly for permission to reproduce some 
of those cartoons in the guide book.  Permission was granted with no 
significant strings attached.

There is a copy of the 1994 guide book in the TSS archives.  A photo of the 
1994 reunion is on page 136 of the book 50 Years Of Texas Caving.

There were two subsequent UT caver reunions in 2004 and 2015 but no guide books 
were prepared.  There is a significant photographic record of the events.  The 
2004 Reunion group is pictured on page 498 of the 50 Years book.  Of that 
group, five are known to have recently died.

Although Bill Helmer was around at the time, he was not involved and the topic 
of his photographs is an unrelated sidebar.

===Carl Kunath



From: kara posso
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 7:48 AM
To: Cave Tex ; searos...@gmail.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Historical Question

Hello Everyone,

Below is a message i received from a fellow through the grotto email the other 
day. I thought that he would have better luck solving his mystery with the help 
of all of you since my institutional knowledge does not go back this far. Ross 
is included on this email, please reply to hum or remember to hit REPLY ALL to 
keep him on the email chain since he is not signed up on the listserve.

Also Ross, if there is anyway you can share the comic strip (or part of it) i 
am sure people would be interested to see!

Thanks folks!
Kara


  My name is Ross Burns, and several people on Facebook suggested that I post 
this question to your group.It concerns spelunking in the Austin area in the 
period of 1953-54.

  I am a fan of the old Pogo comic strips by Walt Kelly. He frequently mentions 
real people. events, and groups in the strip. I have been reading a recent 
re-issue of the strips for 1955 and 1956. In a storyline  he published 
beginning in January of 1955, he repeatedly mentions the University of Texas 
Spelunking Team. Partly I know that he loved to play with words including 
spelunking. However the repeated mention of UT and Texas over 2 or 3 months, 
makes me wonder if there was a particular event that he was referring to.  Some 
of the characters are trying to reach the team to help rescue a frog that was 
swallowed by Albert the alligator. So, it may have been some sort of rescue or 
similar event.

  Since Kelly wrote the strips well ahead of publication date, he probably 
started this storyline in November or December of 1954.

  I would appreciate any information that you might be able to shed on this 
mystery.

  Thank you for your time and attention.

  Ross Burns




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[Texascavers] Departed Caver Photo

[Carl Kunath]

Thanks, Mark.
What a fortuitous grouping!
Five years makes a difference.
===Carl Kunath

-Original Message- 
From: mmin...@caver.net

Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:24 AM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Departed Caver Photo

While looking through some old photos, I came across the attached photo
of Lee-Jay Graves, Peter Strickland & Ernie Garza at the 2014 NSS
Convention in Huntsville, Alabama taken by either Yvonne Droms or me.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net





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[Texascavers] John Fish photo

[Carl Kunath]

More sad news this morning.   John Fish has died.

After many years with no contact, with some urging and assistance, John came to 
the 2015 TCR
and old friendships were renewed.

Farewell to Juan Pescado.
We are diminished.

===Carl Kunath



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[Texascavers] Terry Plemons

[Carl Kunath]

So sorry to have this news!
Brings tears to my eyes. . . .

===Carl Kunath






-Original Message- 
From: Sam Young

Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2019 9:56 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Terry Plemons

I am sorry to have to report that we have lost another one. Terry
Plemons died yesterday in St. Davids Hospital in Austin.  He suffered a
heart attack a few days ago.

. Sam Young

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[Texascavers] Happy Birthday Carta Valley cavers!

[Carl Kunath]

Happy Birthday Carta Valley Cavers !





Today, July 13, 2019 is a landmark day in Texas caving.*



Fifty years ago, July 13, 1969, a small group gathered at Crosby’s restaurant 
in Acuña, Mexico and founded a new caving “organization.”  CVS is based on the 
fundamental notion that caving is a “fun” activity and should not be burdened 
with unnecessary complication.  Consequently, there are no officers, no 
membership dues, and no formality whatsoever.  It is a formula for success.  
Fifty years later, the friendships endure and Carta Valley SUCKS cavers meet 
annually to renew the camaraderie.



Carta Valley cavers will meet again at the Texas Caver Reunion, October 11-13, 
2019 at Paradise Canyon.



===Carl Kunath


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Re: [Texascavers] TC issue

[Carl Kunath]

Please don’t forget David McKenzie and perhaps a few others . . . .
===Carl Kunath

From: grub...@centurytel.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:28 PM
To: texascavers
Subject: [Texascavers] TC issue

I'd like to float the idea of  doing a couple memorial issues of the Texas 
Caver for William Russell, Bill Mixon, Pete Strickland, Lee Jay Graves and Don 
Broussard.  We did so much with those fellows,  They did so much for caving.  
If folks wrote stories of caving with them, personal recollections from days 
gone by, articles about ways they contributed to our cause it would make a 
large addition to our shared history




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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Mixon

[Carl Kunath]

Mark, thanks for that delightful look at Bill Mixon.
I think you were right on the mark.
Your comments are a wonderful counterpoint to the asinine, ill-informed 
drivel that another fellow posted a few days ago.

Good for you!
===Carl Kunath



-Original Message- 
From: mmin...@caver.net

Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 9:13 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Bill Mixon

Recollections of Bill Mixon

I’ve known Bill Mixon since the 1970s. I knew him first as editor of the
Windy City Speleonews and may have met him a couple of times at caving
events in Indiana or elsewhere in the upper Midwest at that time, but we
became fast friends after he moved to Austin in the early 1980s, where I
already resided. We shared an intellectual curiosity and interest in all
things scientific, often discussing and critiquing the latest
announcement of a scientific advance. (Bill worked in physics at the
Tokamak fusion reactor at the University of Texas and I worked in the
chemistry department doing organic synthesis.) We also shared an
appreciation for concise writing and good grammar, often lamenting the
poor quality of even official pronouncements and journal articles. We
met for lunch almost every work day, even long after UT Grotto lunch
gatherings had faded away.

Bill Mixon was intensely interested in the phenomenal caving taking
place in Mexico, even though he was no longer personally doing hardcore
trips. He moved to Austin to be closer to the action and very quickly
moved into a leadership position within the AMCS, becoming the primary
editor of its flagship publication, the AMCS Activities Newsletter,
which he transformed into a world-class journal. He also oversaw the
publication of many AMCS Bulletins covering specific topics in great
detail. He was a meticulous grammarian and conscientious editor, keeping
countless details in order. Bill also maintained a vast personal caving
library as well as the AMCS library with extensive material on Mexico
from AMCS exchanges and other foreign publications, all of which was
indexed online. He had a great memory and could often point to an
obscure publication to answer a question or provide background material.

In addition to his work on publications, he also devoted a large amount
of time to making the AMCS website an outstanding reference source for
Mexican caving. He scanned and posted or archived thousands of cave
maps, photographs from major expeditions, videos, out-of-print
publications, and other items involving caving in Mexico. He was also
often the primary representative of the AMCS at NSS Conventions, where
he maintained a small space selling publications.

After he became gravely ill, Bill arranged for his house to become the
Texas Speleology Center, which provides offices, meeting space and a
permanent home to the libraries and archives of both Texas and Mexican
caving. Bill Mixon’s legacy will live on for decades to come.

Mark Minton
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[Texascavers] Goodbye to Bill Mixon

[Carl Kunath]

I agree with everything Elliott wrote.  Bill Mixon was a friend for many years 
and I shall miss him in several ways.

There are a lot of statistics in the comments below but they scarcely begin to 
enumerate the contributions Bill Mixon
made to the caving world.  He had a hand in nearly all the speleo-literature 
coming from Texas in the past 20 years.
If not for him, the quality and frequency of publications would have surely 
been less impressive.

Bill had a talent for organization and detail and he was a strong grammarian as 
well.  Beyond all that, he was a fun
person to chat with and was very knowledgeable in many fields.  His frequent 
book reviews were thoughtful and
entertaining.  His dry sense of humor was a delight.

R.I.P. Bill Mixon.  I miss you dearly.  You were unique and cannot be replaced.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net






From: William R. Elliott
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2019 11:33 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Goodbye to Bill Mixon

Bill Mixon

Bill Mixon worked tirelessly over many years on AMCS publications and the 
website. He maintained the AMCS files at his house, which today is the Texas 
Speleology Center. Mixon was editor of the AMCS Activities Newsletter for 21 
issues from 1992 to 2018, a total of 2952 pages, or 56% of the 5272 newsletter 
pages published since 1965. He served as layout editor and production manager 
for many issues of the AMCS Bulletin with little or no credit. He also placed 
images of 4065 cave maps on the AMCS website. We now have a project to carry on 
his tradition and index all the cave maps that Mixon put online for us.

Mixon was a very patient and resourceful layout editor for my AMCS Bulletin 26 
on cavefishes last year. I deeply appreciate his work.

Many cavers contributed to these newsletters and bulletins, and all deserve our 
thanks and respect, but none did more than Bill Mixon. Thank you Bill, we will 
miss you.

I have a 13 March 2013 photo of Mixon at his Macintosh computer in his library, 
which I will try and post here and on Dropbox at

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qrtqdtlm4uuy1wb/AAAXKI7lOuobu7DjG8tbQHrka?dl=0




Thanks,

William R. (Bill) Elliott


speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell



> On May 8, 2019, at 17:34, Jocelyn Hooper  wrote:
>
> I am sorry to have to say we have lost another caver friend.  Bill Mixon died 
> this morning after a long battle with myasthenia gravis.  Peter Sprouse is 
> compiling the obit.
> Jocie




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[Texascavers] William photos

[Carl Kunath]

Katie:

Are you receiving the William photos I am sending directly to you?
===Carl


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[Texascavers] Bill Russell

[Carl Kunath]

Katie, thank you for the update.
That’s the sort of morning news I don’t want to hear.
I can’t think of a caving friend with more tenure than Bill.  We’ve been 
friends for at least 57 years.
Bill is a tough guy and has prevailed against a lot of problems.  I’m praying 
that he has the resources to beat this latest threat.

Please let him know that the entire caving community is pulling for him.

===Carl Kunath




From: Katherine Arens
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2019 9:19 AM
To: Texascavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Billl Russell in hospital

after coming home from rehab on friday, william started with a cold/flu on 
monday.  He was ok (got up out of bed into wheelchair with help), drank ensure, 
etc), but last night he spiked a fever and while it went down, he went 
unresponsive in less than an hour after the fever broke..  He’s in Dell-Seton 
unconscious, and it doesn’t look great.  just thought you folks should know.  
This has not been a good 12 months for cavers.

think good thoughts for him
katie




Katherine ArensPhones: Office(512) 232-6363
ar...@austin.utexas.edu   Dept. Phone:  (512) 471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location:  Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office:  Burdine 320
Austin, TX  78712-1802
  -. .-
 _..-'()`-.._
 ./'. '||\\.(\_/) .//||` .`\.
  ./'.|'.'\\|..)O O(..|//`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |\`` '`" '` ''/| ||.`|..`\.
  ./'.||'. .  .  .`||.`\.
 /'|||'.|| {   } ||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||| {   } |||.`|||.`
'.||| | |/'   ``\||`` ''||/''   `\| | |||.`
 |/' \./' `\./\!|\   /|!/\./' `\./ `\|
V  VV}' `\ /' `{V   VV
 ``  `V ' ' '






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[Texascavers] Photo ID

[Carl Kunath]

Well, that’s great Bennett!
Since you’re “on a roll,” perhaps you can complete the last few mystery people 
in the 1984 TSA Convention group photo seen on pages 111 and 112 of the 50 
Years of Texas Caving book?
Thanks, and keep up the good work.

===Carl Kunath

From: Bennett Lee
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2019 11:12 AM
To: mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com ; Bexar Grotto
Subject: [Texascavers] Immortalize yourself at TSA Spring Convention

Immortalize yourself at this year's TSA Spring Convention!



After the recent losses within our caver family, I've taken strolls down memory 
lane with folks looking at old photos. Some old cavers are unrecognizable in 
their youth. Names of old friends and acquaintances forgotten decades later. 
Before that happens to our current caver family, I decided to record everyone's 
name in the group photos that I've taken at Spring Convention for posterity’s 
sake. Thus, I am manually outlining each and every person and pet (since many 
of them are well-known family members, too), then numbering them.



At Spring Convention this year, I will have the original group photos on 
display. FIND YOURSELF IN THE PHOTOS at Spring Convention and write down your 
name on the corresponding number. Once complete, I will compile the original 
photos, outlines, and names, and make them available to everyone, submit them 
to the TSS, etc.



Here's an example using last year's group photo:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16Rib38VfY8sFkmk6BXKN_W-PS6cILnM1






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[Texascavers] Dining at the Condesa

[Carl Kunath]

Dining at the Condesa.



Bill’s story (and Mark’s) about eating at the Restaurante Condesa in Valles 
brings to mind a memorable experience.



In July, 1976 Jim Goodbar and I were in Mexico to sightsee and do a little 
light caving along the way.  We visited Gruta de Carrizal, Huasteca Canyon, and 
Cueva de la Boca.  Then, we crossed the sierras from Montemorelos to Rayones 
for a look at Pozo de Gavilan and continued for a good visit at Real de 
Catorce.  Farther south, we made a brief foray into Cueva de la Puente, and 
continued through Jalpan to Xilitla.  In Xilitla, Sr. Plutarco Gastelum, an 
acquaintance from prior visits and the supervisor of the Sir Edward James 
property (AKA the Huxley Birdhouse, Las Pozas and other names), treated us 
royally and provided a handwritten note to the caretaker at Las Pozas.  I don’t 
recall the exact wording of the note but it must have been along the line of, 
“These are my honored guests.  Please give them special carte blanche.” The 
caretaker didn’t quite bow and scrape but we wandered freely for several hours.



Now, finally, to the point of this story.  We wound up for lunch in Valles on a 
day when the temperature and humidity were both well into the 90s.  We were 
tired, hot, hungry, and ready for some food that didn’t come from a can or a 
plastic bag.  Naturally, we went to the Restaurate Condesa.  I ordered a beer 
and one of the house specialties:  Milanesa Condesa.  I asked the waiter, “Es 
muy picante?” and was assured that it was not.  The milanesa arrived and it was 
slathered with salsa verde.  Hunger overcame caution.  I sawed off a big bite 
and popped it into my mouth.  Madre de Dios!  It was a good thing I had most of 
a beer available.  It required all of that and more to put out the fire.  
Regaining consciousness and with senses somewhat dulled by pain, I scraped away 
the surface salsa and tried another bite.  It was good that a fresh beer had 
arrived for it was badly needed.  For the third attempt, I pressed the meat 
with a fork and attempted to expel the excess salsa.  With that technique and 
plenty of cerveza, I managed to consume the majority of the meal.  In 
retrospect, it’s likely that the waiter, the cook, and the complete staff were 
having a large hoo-rah as they observed the poor gringo’s fiery agony.  No 
doubt they were getting a nice commission for the sale of the extra beer.  It 
was a memorable meal at the fabled Condesa.



===Carl Kunath



***





agree that the Condesa was a great Mexican hangout for many years. It
was _the _ place to meet before or after any trip to the El Abra in the
'70s. I remember one trip we were there and the telephone rang. It was
someone calling from the States for Bill Russell, and he was there!
Cavers used to leave messages there for one another, but for Bill to
actually be there at the time of the call was amazing. It was not
uncommon in those days to see backpacks against the wall, waiting for
the owner to return from some adventure or the other. The Condesa was a
great resource for cavers!

The Condesa was my first introduction to the Mexican custom of eating
jalapeño peppers like potato chips or peanuts in a bar. There were two
locals seated at a table drinking beer with a large bowl of jalapeños en
escabeche between them. They drank beer and munched jalapeños the way 
Americans would have eaten chips. I was amazed.

The Condesa also used to offer Filete Mignon really cheap (by American
standards). I remember one time Hal Lloyd had filete for both breakfast
and dinner, and bragged about telling his father that he had filet twice
in one day.

Enchiladas Condesa were a perennial favorite. I really miss that place!

Mark Minton



**

On 2019-02-26 16:12, William R. Elliott wrote:
> CAVER STORY: RESTAURANT CONDESA
>
> Many older cavers remember the Restaurant Condesa in Ciudad Valles,
> San Luis Potosí, in the heart of the Sierra de El Abra. It was owned
> by Señor Juan Bermea Gloria, who had worked in the States and spoke
> English. He was a good friend to the cavers. He was our message center
> for years, even keeping a couple of log books in his glass counter for
> cavers to sign and leave each other messages. Sometimes he let cavers
> camp in his jardín when they could not find a place. Cavers often
> visited the tiny Condesa, and it was mentioned in caver newsletters
> from the early 1960s to 1984. [see photos attached]
>
> In 1969 Richard O. Albert wrote, “We always ate at the Restaurant La
> Condesa, right on the plaza that was right on the edge of the Río
> Valles. The food there was good, but the waitresses were not. We would
> all sit down and order something from the menu, and then always
> wondered what we would get. Sometimes it was what we had ordered and
> sometimes it was not, but we learned to eat and not complain too much
> abou

[Texascavers] Carta Valley on Amazon

[Carl Kunath]

This just appeared on Amazon:



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[Texascavers] Bill Steele Saw The Truth

[Carl Kunath]

Bill is exactly right.  It’s an inconvenient truth that you are allowed to 
characterize yourself as a caver despite only minimal, sometimes miniscule, 
participation in that activity.  Seen from another viewpoint, those peripheral 
experiences may have been powerful enough to last a lifetime.  I have 
encountered the same things/memories/claims as Bill.  It IS very much an 
individual frame of reference.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net






From: Bill Steele
In my 42 years of living in Texas I have run into two people who said their 
fathers were cavers and when I later met the fathers it turned out they went to 
Bustamante (Grutas del Palmito) once when in college. It comes down to your 
point of reference.

Bill Steele
speleoste...@aol.com





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[Texascavers] Glenn Canyon: The Place No One Knew:

[Carl Kunath]

The loss of Glenn Canyon is tragic in the extreme.

We can never get it back but may profit from hindsight.  Eliot Porter’s book 
may cause you to reach for a Kleenex.

https://www.amazon.com/Place-No-One-Knew-Colorado/dp/0879059710

===Carl Kunath






-Original Message-
From: Dwight Deal
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 10:38 PM
To: lskinner ; Linda Starr ; Cave NM ; Cave Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] The Place No One Knew:

Thanks Lee.

I read that.  I was in college (1955) when all that was going on.  Just 
starting to run rivers and cave and listened to a live concert by the Weavers 
with Pete Seager in Troy, NY, who made a pitch against the Glenn Canyon Dam. An 
innovative (at the time) movie of Glenn Canyon had also been made using color 
slides that were panned and zoomed in and out of on 16mm film.

I never thought it should have been built in the first place. I am not sure how 
many, if any, caves it flooded.

It will never completely "revert".  But it's a step n the right direction.

Dwight




> On September 19, 2018 at 7:01 PM lskinner  wrote:
>
>
> Linda, Dwight,
>
> I'm unable to reply to the list with this id (my computer is in the
> shop)
> I recommend Eliot Porter's book The Place No One Knew: Glen Canyon on
> the Colorado. How many decades to revert to its original pristine
> condition including disappearance of lake water lines?
>
> Lee
>
>
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[Texascavers] The Legacy of Pete Strickland

[Carl Kunath]

The Legacy of Pete Strickland.



There has been an incredible outpouring of grief and a few anecdotes following 
Pete Strickland’s death.  Aside from his considerable exploits while 
underground, Pete left an amazing legacy as the “go to” guy whenever there was 
a problem that needed solving or a situation that required a helping hand.  It 
seemed that Pete was always there when help was needed.



I don’t think there will ever be a complete record of the things he was 
involved with but please take a look at the index section of 50 Years of Texas 
Caving (page 515).  There are 19 entries beside his name.  I list them here for 
your convenience and encourage you to read them all to more fully appreciate 
Pete Strickland.



Strickland, Peter “Pete”: 17, 89, 94, 96, 111, 131, 133, 142, 211, 329, 359, 
379, 380, 388, 389, 390, 465, 466, 480



Here are two typical citations:



Sixty-four die-hard cavers entered Powell’s Cave on the last

weekend of February. Thirteen teams added 3,576 feet to the

map. Pete Strickland masterminded a scheme to help excavate

the crumbly entrance and the historic fence wire ladder that

had been used for 30 years was at last removed.





Pete Strickland led the heroic efforts of a small group at

Powell’s Cave that resulted in the removal of an estimated 26

cubic yards of rubble from the entrance and construction of

a steel reinforced concrete foundation upon which further construction

would be based.





===Carl Kunath

carl.kun...@suddenlink.net



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[Texascavers] Don Broussard

[Carl Kunath]

I’m on board with this!  Don deserves thanks and a lot of credit for years of 
mostly unrecognized accomplishments in the caving world.
Thanks, Don for all you have done!
===Carl Kunath




From: William R. Elliott
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:10 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Thanks to Don Broussard

I hope that many on the TexasCavers list will thank Don Broussard here in 
public for his many years of service to caving. Without people like Don several 
long-term projects would not have happened, like the resurvey of  Sótano del 
Venadito, maps of many El Abra caves, aspects of the Huautla Project, and 
others.

Thanks to Bill  Steele and Logan McNatt for recognizing Don here. Don is so 
quiet and modest, he wouldn't brag on himself.

Please join in. Let's hear it for Don!

Sincerely,
William R. (Bill) Elliott



​914 Bannister Dr

Jefferson City, MO 65109​

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell




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[Texascavers] Don Broussard

[Carl Kunath]

I’m on board with this!  Don deserves thanks and a lot of

From: William R. Elliott
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2018 9:10 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Thanks to Don Broussard

I hope that many on the TexasCavers list will thank Don Broussard here in 
public for his many years of service to caving. Without people like Don several 
long-term projects would not have happened, like the resurvey of  Sótano del 
Venadito, maps of many El Abra caves, aspects of the Huautla Project, and 
others.

Thanks to Bill  Steele and Logan McNatt for recognizing Don here. Don is so 
quiet and modest, he wouldn't brag on himself.

Please join in. Let's hear it for Don!

Sincerely,
William R. (Bill) Elliott



​914 Bannister Dr

Jefferson City, MO 65109​

speodes...@gmail.com

573-291-5093 cell




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[Texascavers] NBC "flood tours"

[Carl Kunath]

http://texashillcountry.com/natural-bridge-caverns-hosting-rare-tour-flooded-aquifer/

===Carl Kunath





From: David
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 10:42 AM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] old news

I somehow missed this story.Probably when I was on a hiatus.

 https://s.hdnux.com/photos/46/64/67/10177986/3/1024x1024.jpg


 https://s.hdnux.com/photos/46/64/67/10177987/3/920x920.jpg


 https://s.hdnux.com/photos/46/64/67/10177997/3/1024x1024.jpg


Can anybody guess or elaborate more about the story than what was
reported in the news ?



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Re: [Texascavers] Caverns of Sonora

[Carl Kunath]

That would be the “Diamond Horseshoe.”  See page 406 in 50 Years of Texas 
Caving (the encyclopedia of Texas caving).  You should have a copy in your 
library.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net





From: David
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 9:07 PM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Caverns of Sonora

There are 3 or 4 cavers on this forum who have actually gone caving in Caverns 
of Sonora - especially if you call "hauling out rocks," as caving.

I once was shown a rare picture of some unusual speleothem off-trail in Sonora. 
 There were similar, but different pictures in the books about Texas caves and 
the Texas Caver.

My very fuzzy memory was the speleothem resembled a large onion ring or a 
horseshoe or both, but I may have it confused with the other off-trail photos, 
since I haven't seen it in 30 years.  The speleothem and passage area both had 
a special name.



I had an opportunity once around 1986 to go off-trail in NBC, and blew it off, 
thinking I would get another chance someday.  Some of you might have been on 
that trip.  I assume that part of that trip is now what the Wild Tour visits.


I do sincerely apologize for contributing to cavers leaving CaveTex, but I went 
out of my way to ask cavers politely to ignore me and just hit the delete 
button.  I have no nefarious or malicious agenda, just bored out of my mind way 
out here beyond the Edge of the Caving Universe.

D.L.



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Re: [Texascavers] Terry Cavanaugh and the Alpine Express

[Carl Kunath]

Terry Cavanaugh certainly hit a few high spots during his brief caving career.
There is a short summary and a few pictures of the Siffre adventure at Midnight 
Cave in 50 Years of Texas Caving, (the encyclopedia of Texas caving), pages 
459-467.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net

From: Jenni Arburn
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 5:33 PM
To: TSA Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Terry Cavanaugh and the Alpine Express

He wrote a book about it. Unfortunately, I cannot find an english version. 


  On Apr 29, 2018, at 4:17 PM, Marvin and Lisa <mlmil...@gvtc.com> wrote:

  Yesterday Bexar Grotto members helped man a TSS booth and a Bexar Grotto 
booth at the Cascade Caverns Cave Fest. The turnout was not huge but it was fun 
talking to people about caves throughout the day. The band that played at the 
event was Terry Cavanaugh and the Alpine Express. German polka not my chosen 
style of music but they were very good. During a break between sets Terry came 
and sat down with us at the Bexar Grotto booth and casually mentioned that he 
had done some caving as a youth in Houston. We asked him where he went caving 
and he mentioned Caverns of Sonora. This would have been in the early 1970’s so 
maybe a local cave instead of “the” Caverns of Sonora. He mentioned a trip 
where they stopped by a cave where a European fellow – Swedish, he recalled – 
was doing an experiment on circadian rhythms. That would have been Frenchman 
Michel Sifre in Midnight Cave in 1972. He also recalled a trip to the 
Bustamante area of Mexico with some Houston cavers during which two members of 
the party drowned. That notorious incident happened in 1971 in Grutas de 
Carrizal. You can read about on page 296 of “50 Years of Texas Caving”, or the 
detailed report in the November 1971 Texas Caver on the Karst Information 
Portal: http://digital.lib.usf.edu/SFS0055003/1/pdf.
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[Texascavers] Don Arburn and the TexasCavers listserve

[Carl Kunath]

I'll echo these recent comments about Don Arburn.  His service to the Texas 
caving community has been exceptional.  Thanks Don!


On another subject:
The deterioration of the TexasCavers listserve is quite amazing.  The fact 
that it is not moderated has been seen by a small number of users as an 
opportunity to subvert it to a personal blog by a few who have lost sight of 
the stated purpose (or choose to ignore) and feel that "anything goes."  It 
is ironic that this condition drives away the very people it was meant to 
serve.  Cavers are a tolerant group but individuals do have their patience 
limits.  With increasing frequency we see "goodbye, I've had enough" 
postings from longtime supporters of Texas caving.


A previous attempt to create an "off topic" group was a failure because the 
abusers of the main list failed to acquire a large enough readership to 
satisfy their needs for attention.  Subtle (and not so subtle) requests to 
"take it off-line and/or use personal messages"  have been ignored.


Because Texas cavers have no reliable newsletter, if TexasCavers listserve 
fails to serve its purpose, what are we to do?  I don't have a good answer. 
I can't blame Charles Goldsmith for wisely choosing not to moderate the 
list.  Who would like that job?  Perhaps we need an "ON-TOPIC" listserve 
with  a "three strikes and you're out" policy.


I'm hanging in there but it's requiring an increasing effort and my delete 
key is looking quite worn.


===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net




-Original Message- 
From: Vivian Loftin


Don has been amazing and dedicated. Too bad he’s not on texascavers any more 
to see this. Like so many before him, he has been run off of this list by 
the trolls.

Viv

Joe Ranzau <jran...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anyone who has spent time with Don knows of his irreverent sense of humor 
and dedication to his Texas Caving family. Don became Preserve Manager for 
TCMA's Deep and Punkin Caves Nature Preserve in early March, 2010. A 
position I suspect he planned to keep for just a year or two as a way to 
help us out.


During his more than 8 years as preserve manager, he has been instrumental 
in herding cats, err... cavers, to continually improve our field station and 
work tirelessly to keep the preserve open and ready for the next group of 
cavers to come out and visit.


For many of us, Don and Lucy have been the first faces we see each time we 
arrive. They've been out ahead of the group to double check things and take 
care of any last minute issues. I'd hesitate to guess how many miles they 
have driven between San Antonio and the preserve, I venture it's a ton! 
Among the many accomplishments during his tenure, the surface trail system 
was vastly expanded giving groups ready access to many parts of the preserve 
and providing for better birding and hiking opportunities. We've built a 
group shower facility to handle the hoards of happy cavers after a long day 
underground. We've cleared the property lines, doubled our camping area, 
performed major restoration on the cabin at least three times, fixed 
numerous gates and the road more times than we can count, and transformed 
the back porch into a retreat for cavers.


Please join me in thanking Don for his dedicated service and congratulating 
him on a well deserved break!


Regards,
Joe Ranzau




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[Texascavers] R. B. Lilly has passed

[Carl Kunath]

Robert B. Lilly



Once again, I am the bearer of bad news.  Robert Bryant Lilly, 82, passed away 
in Abilene, TX on 10 March 2018.  This leaves Dewayne Dickey as the last of the 
original hard core Abilene cavers (Bart Crisman, Dewayne Dickey, Jim Estes, 
George Gray, and Bryant Lilly).  You can see that group posing at the entrance 
to Felton Cave on page 187 in 50 Years of Texas Caving.  I never heard him 
addressed as Robert, Bob, or Bryant.  It was always “B. Lilly or just Lilly,” 
and he referred to himself in that way.

He was a very active member of the Abilene Grotto.  He did a lot for Texas 
caving and never sought the spotlight.  During the years 1961-1964 when James 
Estes was so ably editing the Texas Caver, Lilly was the man behind the scenes 
doing the lithography and running the printing press.  During the 1965 TSA 
Project at Deep Cave he did a good job supplying and operating the camp 
commissary.







Somehow, I never spent much time caving with Lilly but here is a good photo I 
made on a very early exploration trip to Deep Cave in January 1965.



We are diminished.



===Carl Kunath

carl.kun...@suddenlink.net








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[Texascavers] Joe Pearce

[Carl Kunath]

Joe Pearce



It seems that I write far too many obituaries for Texas cavers.  While a few 
die unfortunately young, it’s a sad fact that Texas’ early cavers were born 
prior to WWII and they are now in their 8th and 9th decades.  Time will have 
its way.   It has been my good fortune to have been acquainted with many of 
these pioneer Texas cavers.  For those who were special friends I usually 
submitted at least a short obituary so that their passing would not go 
unnoticed.  A. Richard “Dick” Smith, Jack C. Burch, Bart Crisman, Katherine 
Goodbar, Jimmy Walker, and James Estes are good examples of those I recognized 
for leading us in earlier times.  In earlier years, those obituaries rightfully 
appeared in the mostly regular issues of the Texas Caver.*  These days, we are 
reduced to the very informal bulletin board.





It is the nature of our fraternity that we have short memories and scant 
appreciation for prior generations.  I did not comment about the passing of 
Bill Mahavier, Jerry Chastain, Claude Head, Danny Sheffield, Ollene Bundrant, 
Elizabeth Smith, Art Simpson, Roger Sorrels, and others, unfortunately, almost 
too numerous to list.  Moreover, not many senior Texas cavers attend the 
various caver functions with the possible exception of the TCR.  Their names 
and contributions are all too easily forgotten.



With that preamble, I come to a recent death I cannot ignore.  Joe C. Pearce 
passed away January 20, 2018 just three days short of his 91st birthday.  His 
death was mentioned in a recent TexasCavers posting although unfortunately with 
a relict topic line.  Although Joe’s health kept him in the background of Texas 
caving in his later years, he was a TexasCavers subscriber and remained 
interested in caving.  He was NSS #2903.   Some of you may recall meeting Joe 
at the 1984 TSA Convention in Burnet or the 2004 TCR at Flat Creek.  Joe was 
one of the founders of the original Balcones Grotto and a principal in getting 
the Texas Caver off the ground.He was listed as one of the production staff 
on the masthead of issue #1 (October 1955).  That historic first issue carried 
a nice essay about early Grotto lore from Joe’s memory.  Joe was far more than 
a production staff member of the Texas Caver.  He was a faithful contributor.  
Joe was an early advocate for safe and conservation-minded caving.  He authored 
many Caver articles about conservation and cave owner relationship.  Joe’s bio 
appeared in the May 1956 Caver.  You can find several references to Joe Pearce 
in 50 Years of Texas Caving.







With Joe’s passing, we are diminished.



===Carl Kunath

carl.kun...@suddenlink.net





*Kudos to John Spence for producing the August 1985 Texas Caver, a special 30th 
anniversary issue that included a nice retrospective of the first issue of the 
Texas Caver, an interview with Bill Russell, and other worthwhile material.  
Spence’s issue could well serve as a journalistic model of what the Texas Caver 
could be with every issue.


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Re: [Texascavers] Speleo-vehicle related

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

David:
There aren’t enough hours in the day to correct you.
Start with getting the model designation correct.  The new model is the JL.
I consider myself a respectable off road enthusiast.  I own a 2015 Rubicon JK.
Disposable?  Really?  My 1982 CJ-7 is still quite serviceable.

Is this JK green enough for you?

Oh, well. . . .

===Carl Kunath






From: David via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 12:33 PM
To: CaveTex
Cc: David
Subject: [Texascavers] Speleo-vehicle related

The 2018 Jeep Wrangler will soon be at the dealers.

The minimum price for a 4-door Rubicon is $ 41,000.   Of course, the dealers 
will mark that up.  And no respectable off-road enthusiast would purchace the 
Rubicon version.

This is a disposable car.   The automatic transmission has no dip-stick, nor 
fluid filler tube.  Hopefully there is a way to service the filter.   Right ??

The aluminum wheels are off of a Chrysler passenger sedan, meaning most owners 
will desire to immediatley upgrade those with after-market wheels at a cost of 
$ 2,000 or more.

But they still offer a manual transmission.  Probably the last series to offer 
that.

The interior now looks like other new SUVs.

And they brought back the front-axle disconnect, but now it is electric with a 
switch on the dashboard.  Meaning, not amechanical vaccuum a switch that 
allegedly was very prone to failure.

This new Jeep gets the JK label replacing 2011-2017 JL model.

Why can't auto-manufactures listen ?   What is their problem ?  Why can't they 
see that most rich people build their own Jeeps, or purchase something else.   
Even poor people build their own Jeeps if they have the capabilities and a work 
area.

Feel free to correct me.

I bet there is probably somebody out there smart enough to build a 
green-colored Jeep.

Watch out if you buy the Sahara version.   It allegedly now has CVT joints.  
Those rubber boots eventually fill with wet grit, corroding and eroding all the 
rotating parts.

David



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[Texascavers] The caves at Langtry

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

OK.  I’ll try to straighten out the confusion about the caves at Langtry.

A roadcut on US 90 west of Langtry exposed two fissure caves on opposite sides 
of the road.  One, the eastern-most was called Langtry East Gypsum Cave.  The 
other, nearby, slightly west and on the opposite side of the road was called 
Langtry Gypsum Cave.  Both these caves were destroyed when the highway was 
rerouted some years ago.

Elsewhere, near Langtry, are Langtry Lead Cave, Emerald Sink, Langtry Quarry 
Cave, and Fisher’s Fissure.

They were, for a time in the early 1960s, frequently visited by cavers from UT 
Austin and Sul Ross-Alpine.  They are all “sporting” caves.  After a time, 
access became difficult and Texas cavers moved on to other challenges.

These caves are all well described in the TSS literature.

===Carl Kunath





From: Katherine Arens via Texascavers
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 11:29 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Cc: Katherine Arens
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Langtry caving

Langtry Lead, Langtry Quarry, Langtry cave
k

  On Oct 21, 2017, at 12:41 AM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

  Thanks, David. June and I enjoyed visiting with you at TCR. Fritz Holt

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Oct 19, 2017, at 7:35 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:


I went to Langtry Leads twice. And to a sink out there somewhere. Did some 
caving on the Alamo Village Ranch for Happy Shahan looking for guano to mine. 
All a long time ago.

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

  David,
  Good information. What are the names of the other two caves? I have made 
the drop into the main cave in the Hwy. 90 cut at Langtry some years ago with 
Preston McMichael and other friends.
  Fritz Holt

  Sent from my iPhone


  > On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:53 AM, David via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
  >
  > I mentioned last month that I had discovered that the landowner of the 
3 big caves out at the big ranch north of the town of Langtry had passed away.
  >
  > I made a diligent effort to contact his large family and offer 
condolences.
  >
  > They are now aware of my intentions.
  >
  > I can only hope that someday one of them will contact me expressing 
interest in assistance with visiting the caves or reach out on their own to 
another caver.
  >
  > I have guided several trips into each of the 3 caves, but the last time 
was at about 19 years ago.  I am not in good enough health to do it any time 
soon.
  >
  > These caves are warmer and dustier and drier than caves in the Hill 
Country.Emerald Sink probably has a huge bat population.
  >
  > Proper gear is just a caving quality headlamp ( $ 30 to $ 70 from Frys 
), jeans and t-shirt, plenty of water or Gatorade and some lightweight cotton 
gloves and any kind of helmet.
  >
  > Thin kneepads for those who can not tolerate occasional crawling.
  >
  > Maybe something new will happen in 2018 in the Langtry Caves.
  >
  > But as of October 19, I do not know if they want cavers to contact 
them, or who in their family wants to be the cave contact, or even if any of 
them still own the ranch.
  >
  > I do not plan to ever reach out to them again.   The ball is in their 
court.
  >
  > If my effort fails, then another caver should try, or attempt a 
different approach method, but at least wait a few months.
  >
  > David Locklear

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[Texascavers] TCR 2017 and beyond

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Don:
Thanks very much for your outstanding and unselfish service as TCR Jefe.  
You’ve done a wonderful job and your place will be hard to fill.  The position 
receives little thanks but I hope you know that for each person that openly 
says “thank you,” there are dozens of others that silently echo the thought.

>From me to you personally:  “Thanks, and well done!”

===Carl Kunath







-Original Message-
From: Don Arburn via Texascavers
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 6:25 PM
To: TSA Cavers List
Cc: Don Arburn
Subject: [Texascavers] [TCR 2017 Success!]

Hey everyone, another successful Texas cavers reunion is behind us now, well 
done! Good job everybody! It was awesome! IT WAS!

Not much to report in the Lost & Found Department this year, for once, yay!

The owner is happy, the park is clean. Next years deposit is paid, no date set 
yet.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!

I didn’t want to harsh your mellow, on Saturday night, but 2017 was my last TCR 
as Director. I did six TCRs. I’m sorry folks, it was fun, rewarding and an 
adventure! My resignation is on a high point, I feel, with TCR is in good shape 
with a head start on 2018, with a year to solve my absence.

The music was very very good!
The food was very very good! Great job!!
We had INTERNATIONAL Cavers visit from Mexico!
We had David Locklear!
The NSS represented!
The Texas Contingent represented!
The Aggies had a challenging Speleolympics course!
There was a REBELAY course!
We had a hot tub, sauna AND spring water!
There was a SLIDESHOW!
There were POWERWAGONS in service!
There was a HUGE board game.
There were barbarian Viking HOARDS!!
We had MUD GLADIATORS!!
There was schmoozing, I SAW IT!
People smiled!
What more can you ask for?
I’m happy!

Thank you
—Don
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Re: [Texascavers] Caving Article in the San Saba Star 1963

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

I clipped the original article in 1963 from the San Angelo paper.  TSS should 
have that clipping.  It was part of a larger stash I donated to the archives 
many years ago.

===Carl Kunath

From: jerryat...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 1:23 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Caving Article in the San Saba Star 1963

The TSS may have an original of the article in its paper files.

Jerry Atkinson.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Kris Pena via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:


  The August 26, 1963 issue of the San Saba Star had an excellent article 
titled: "Spelunkers will explore caves in area during holiday weekend".

  It includes such important warnings as "if you see heads popping out of the 
ground, you are not losing your mind" and asked landowners to report any caves 
and "a dirty, but courteous caver will appear at your door"

  Does anybody happen to have a high quality scan of this issue? It's referred 
to in 50 Years of Texas Caving and I found a copy on newspapers.com, but the 
quality isn't great. On the off chance that someone has a higher quality scan, 
I'd love to get a copy of it before our presentation at Colorado Bend's 
Heritage Day this weekend. It would be an awesome addition to our presentation! 
Thanks!

  Kris Pena
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[Texascavers] Bill and Pete

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Congratulations to these two bastions of Texas caving and thanks to Logan for 
his work in helping to recognize two of Texas’ most important caving 
personalities.

===Carl Kunath

From: Logan McNatt via Texascavers
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:28 AM
To: Texas Cavers ; swrcav...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Logan McNatt
Subject: [Texascavers] special presentation at UTG meeting

We had some fun at the UTG (Austin) meeting Wed July 19th. About 50 people were 
there, the usual mix of caver generations ranging in experience/membership from 
"young" (< 5 years) to "mature" (5 to 25 years) to "venerable" (25 to 40+ 
years).


I announced that I had a presentation that would require group participation.

"Everyone who has been to at least one NSS Convention please stand up."
about 25 stood
 "at least 5 Conventions, keep standing; the rest sit down"about 15 
still standing
 at least 10about 12
At this point I mentioned that this impromptu survey was "a bit skewed" 
regarding age, and the absence of many middle/venerable cavers (e.g. Terry 
Raines, Don Broussard, Bill Stone, to name just a few)
 at least 204  Gill Ediger, Jim Kennedy, Pete Strickland, and Bill Mixon
at least 30 2  Pete and Bill
at least 40 2--Pete and Bill
at least 50 2--Pete and Bill

I said that both of them had been unable to attend the convention in 
Albuquerque this year because of health problems, breaking Pete's string of 47 
straight years since an interruption for military service. But I had something 
for them, and presented each their 2017 NSS Certificate of Appreciation "for 
his long-term commitment to the NSS."  They got an enthusiastic round of 
applause.

After the meeting several photos were taken; the attached is by Dylan Beeler. 
Bill had been sitting the entire time (with his hand raised during the 
questions) because he is too weak to stand that long, but you can see he held 
the rail for the photo. I noticed that Bill's NSS #5728 was on his certificate, 
but Pete's #8298 was not on his. So I called NSS President Geary Schindel in 
San Antonio, and he will send a corrected certificate to Pete. Geary is the 
person I initially contacted before the Convention (I didn't go) to do 
something special for Pete and Bill. I was hoping for something a little more 
personal than the generic NSS Certificate (like mentioning Pete's hot tub), but 
it worked out ok.

Congratulations and Thanks to Pete and Bill,
Hope the attached photo comes through.

Logan McNatt
(at least 5 NSS Conventions)
NSS 11274

P.S. William B. White, NSS 2237, apparently holds the record, with well over 60 
Conventions attended, including 2017!




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[Texascavers] Andy Komensky

[Carl Kunath]

So sorry learn of Andy’s passing as will be all who knew him, even slightly.
I met Andy at the bottom of Three Mile in the Guadalupe's in 1962.
It was a lasting impression.
I wish I had more pictures of Andy but this one from CaCa in July 1966 is a 
favorite.



Someone beat me to my farewell comment, but I’ll say it again:

We are diminished.

===Carl Kunath

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[Texascavers] Cannon Shot at 2016 TCR

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Follow this link to see a very short video clip of the Charlie Yates 
commemorative cannon shot at the October 2016 TCR.

Cannon Shot 2016 TCR

Charlie Yates, Ron Fieseler, and Bob Burney built the cannon.
Ron Fieseler is firing the cannon.

===Carl Kunath



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[Texascavers] Nice headlamp new to the market

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

At the risk of usurping David Locklear’s domain, I’ll point to a nice headlamp 
recently purchased at Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Coast-HL7-Focusing-LED-Headlamp-19261/204800762

This single LED unit will focus from wide to spot, can be continuously varied 
from dim to bright, and will tilt to the desired angle.
It works well.  Comes with batteries for $24.88.

I don’t suggest this for rigorous caving activity but it will be a nice item 
for above-ground activities.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net

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[Texascavers] The Texas Caver

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

No thanks, Diana.
I did my 12 monthly issues of the Caver back in 1970 and then I did the 50th 
Anniversary issue that finally completed the four issues due to TSA members for 
the 2005 volume of the Texas Caver.  I’m sure you remember that year.

I have always supported the Texas Caver in one way or another and always 
responded to the editor’s requests for help.
Many of the people who publicly note Caver shortcomings have also offered 
assistance, myself included.  There was plenty of constructive criticism 
offered.  For example:  “How about captions for the photographs?”  In many 
cases we were ignored or rebuffed.  I think most finally gave up.

If the Caver is somehow rejuvenated, I stand ready to be a supporter.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net







-Original Message-
From: Diana Tomchick via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:31 PM
To: Cave Tex
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver

This leads me to ask—Carl, since you have so much time to critique the issue 
and write at length about it, and you care so deeply about it, would you 
volunteer to edit the Texas Caver?

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

> On Oct 26, 2016, at 11:05 AM, texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:
>
> The Texas Caver
>
> So here we go again with the Texas Caver.  Every few years we are seeking a 
> new editor or at least discussing options that might disburse the rowdy 
> crowds that are assembling at the gates with torches and pitchforks.
>
> What is gong on here?  Why is it that every few years there is a Texas Caver 
> crisis and a less than graceful transition to a new editor?
>
> There is lots of talk about the Texas Caver.  From the outset, there seems to 
> have been some confusion regarding the difference between good journalism and 
> nice graphic arts. Unfortunately, neither has been regularly in evidence.  
> Maybe I've missed it, but I can't recall anyone praising the Caver for high 
> quality journalism or the reliability of production.  The editor has a few 
> passionate defenders who are willing to do battle with any and all 
> detractors, but the current editorial has now acknowledged what has been 
> evident for several years.
>
> The coming transition is an opportunity to learn from previous mistakes. 
> Texas cavers appreciate good grammar, proper spelling, and nice graphics but, 
> failing that, are willing to forgive a lot if the Caver shows signs of having 
> been carefully crafted with attention to detail:  nice photographs properly 
> captioned and credited; articles well laid out with all elements present; no 
> space used as a personal blog; and perhaps most importantly, timely 
> production.
>
> I was handed a copy of the most recent Texas Caver at the TSA meeting Sunday 
> morning, October 16.  When I looked at the cover, my first thought was "huh?" 
>   I rotated the page through 360 degrees as I searched in vain for a person 
> or anything for scale.  Despairing, I then looked inside for the caption 
> information.  I didn't find much.  The picture credits Peter Bosted and 
> apparently depicts a scene from the Big Island, Hawaii.  I infer that it 
> pictures something within a cave and is not merely a hand sample from a flea 
> market or mineral show.  As usual, there is no proper caption information.  A 
> closer look at the cover reveals "haul" to be misspelled and a Government 
> Canyon report proffered as being from "2105."  Those errors are egregious 
> and, sadly, are but a preview of others to come.
>
> In the present issue (the word "current" can't properly be applied since it 
> is about six months late),  pages 4 and 5 are mostly filled with 
> pictures—none with caption information—and the top photo on page 4 suffers 
> from a lack of pixel information by at least one order of magnitude.  Where 
> is the graphic arts expertise we are often reminded of?  If a photo is 
> essential and a small file is the  best available, then please reduce the 
> printed size.  At the top of page 5 there is a full half page devoted to two 
> guys stirring a large pot of food. What about the "hero" shot at the top of 
> page 6?  Neither photo is captioned or credited.  It's a poor use of space 
> that TSA's  hard copy subscribers are paying for.  In fact, there is a lot of 
> "white space" in every issue.  I am reminded of som

[Texascavers] The Texas Caver

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

tute an archive of events in Texas caving.  Moreover, they are not worthy 
venues for the occasional quality feature about some aspect of Texas caving.



The Texas Caver is inextricably linked to the health of the TSA and to Texas 
caving in general.  TSA members receive precious little for their membership 
dues:  No membership list.  No copy of the Constitution and By-Laws.  No 
mission statement.  No contact list of current officers and chairpersons.  No 
special prices at TSA functions.  Not even a membership card.  Members pay dues 
and are promised a digital newsletter and offered the opportunity to pay extra 
for a hard copy newsletter.  Why would you choose to join such an organization? 
 Will TSA issue a refund or offer a membership extension to those who paid for 
printed newsletters?  I was a TSA member for more than fifty years but finally 
dropped out in disgust a couple of years ago.



In some ways the fate of the Caver is a self-fulfilling story.  The enthusiasm 
of the general Texas caver populace is tied to the quality and timeliness of 
the publication.  It only takes a few instances of mishandled submissions and 
delayed publication to discourage contributors from further support.  The Caver 
should be the natural outlet and archive for articles of substance much as the 
NSS News is an outlet and archive for items of a more national nature.



The Texas Caver HAS BEEN such a publication in the past.  And when it was, 
Texas caving prospered.  For example, I invite you to peruse the February 1971 
issue of the Texas Caver (available from the Texas Speleological Survey or from 
the archives of  http://nckri.org/ ).  It's 20 pages, produced with a 
typewriter and all that entails.  There is news from the A, Alamo, 
Dallas-Fort Worth, and Rice grottos plus an astonishing 17 (seventeen!) trip 
reports.  There are other worthwhile features such as Caver of the Month that 
should be resurrected.



Those were the days!



Carl Kunath

NSS #6230 RF-PH


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[Texascavers] James Estes

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

*James Estes*



You may have noticed the recent announcement of the death of James
Estes.  There
was a somewhat lengthy obituary associated with that announcement but it
fails to note most of the real reasons his passing should be mourned by
Texas cavers.



In 1960, the Texas Region of the NSS was faltering.  The *Texas Caver* had
been produced by a loose coalition of Austin Cavers and only two issues (24
pages) had been accomplished for the entire year. Worse, the NSS had
discontinued the internal structure wherein Texas cavers were recognized as
the Texas Region of the NSS.  In some ways, organized Texas caving was in
trouble.  In November 1961, Texas cavers met in convention at Uvalde and
formed the Texas Speleological Association (TSA) as you know it today.  The
first officers were Arthur Carroll, Dudley Roberts, and James Estes who
served two terms (1961-1962) as Secretary –Treasurer.



That’s not the important part.  James also offered to resurrect the *Texas
Caver* and serve as Editor.  James produced an on-time monthly newsletter
every month for the next four years.  Forty-eight issues!  Six hundred and
one pages!  On time!  All this was done with a typewriter and with only
minimal assistance from his fellow cavers in Abilene, Texas.

Texas caving was rejuvenated.  Compared to the sometimes dismal performance
of *Caver* Editors in later years, this is an almost unbelievable
performance.



Beyond all this, James was a worker in other ways.  He assisted with many
TSA conventions and projects and was always a willing worker when needed.  He
was the Chairman of the 1964 NSS Convention in New Braunfels.



James was an early member of the Abilene Grotto.  Here’s how that happened.
He was browsing the public library and came across an issue of the *NSS
News* that contained Bart Crisman’s story about an adventure at Ogle Cave.  He
noted that Bart was a resident of Abilene and went knocking on his door.  The
Abilene cavers were a close group but James refused to leave Bart’s home
until he was accepted into the Abilene Grotto.  He remained a staunch
member of that group for as long as it existed.



Yes, James drifted away from caving in later years, but he stands as a
shining example of the sort of leadership and dedication that every
successful organization hopes to be blessed with.



It was my good fortune to count James as my friend for more than 50 years
and to have been caving with him a few times.  His passing leaves a gap
that will not be filled.



We are diminished.



===Carl Kunath

carl.kun...@suddenlink.net
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[Texascavers] Head count

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Sam:
My number was just a guess based on the vehicles and people that I actually 
saw.

Somewhere, there is an official NSS registration. . . .

Dusty old photos are at least as interesting as pictures currently posted on 
Facebook.  Go for it.


===Carl

-Original Message- 
From: Sam Young via Texascavers

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 11:06 AM
To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Sequoia in 1966

Carl,

I enjoyed the photos from Sequoia.  Diane and I were there.  I don't
know if you included us in the 10-12 Texans who were in attendance.  We
were one year removed from the UT Grotto and drove over from Salt Lake
City.  I think that we were camped near or in Groad Hollow but not in
the picture.  And yes, I think that is Ken Laidlaw's truck.

I have an old cardboard box with 35mm slides on top of my book case.  I
am sure there are some dusty old photos that I took at Sequoia.  Shall
I?  .. Sam Young

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Re: [Texascavers] 1966 & 1964 NSS Convention photos

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

7
On Jul 11, 2016 4:29 PM, "Diana Tomchick via Texascavers" <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Having grown up in the Pacific NW, much of my backpacking and camping was
> without a tent—we took a rain fly for the occasional downpour, but the
> mosquitos were almost non-existant.
>
> Diana
>
> **
> Diana R. Tomchick
> Professor
> Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
> Rm. ND10.214A
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816
> diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> (214) 645-6383 (phone)
> (214) 645-6353 (fax)
>
> > On Jul 11, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Cave Tex 
> wrote:
> >
> > Very interesting photos, Carl. My favorite is the first one, showing the
> vehicles, the traveling gear (suitcase on boulder; decorated pillow), and
> the cavers sleeping on the ground without tents. Yes, they were tough--one
> of them is even sleeping like a log!
> >
> > Logan
> > lmcn...@austin.rr.com
> >
> > 
> > ___
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
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> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
> 
>
> UT Southwestern
>
>
> Medical Center
>
>
>
> The future of medicine, today.
>
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[Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Well said, Jerry!
Ignore the detractors and keep up the good work!

===Carl Kunath

From: Jerry via Texascavers
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:52 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Powell's Cave Gate Project update :



Our "poorly organized" effort got the gate constructed in a period of less than 
a month from first finding the vandalism, has reached its financial goal 
(thanks to all that contributed !), did it without needing to make formal 
overtures to the "54 SP500 companies that are headquartered in Texas", did so 
without creating a massive headache by making sure that there was a 501(C)3 
organization receiving the funds for shuttling to a third party, and did so by 
using a poor-boy version of crowd-sourcing from within the caving community. No 
excuses for dinner tonight.

Jerry.



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[Texascavers] Bittinger-Morris video

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Thanks to Robert Bisset for posting the remarkable and historically important 
YouTube clip of Craig Bittinger and Neal Morris demonstrating vertical 
techniques of the 1970 period, spinning Goldline and all.  It was a special 
treat to see Craig demonstrating the “three boot” ascending method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYpSHAi-mcg

A copy of this video will be in the permanent archives of the Texas 
Speleological Survey.

===Carl Kunath

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Re: [Texascavers] Camp Stove

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Kerosene?  Really?  Not “white” gas?
===ck

From: Sam Young via Texascavers
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:34 AM
To: texas cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Camp Stove

I have an old kerosene burning camp stove.  I don’t know if anyone uses these 
any more.  Someone left it with me and it looks like it is in good shape.  If 
you would like to have it and save me from taking it to Goodwill, let me know 
off of Texas Cavers.



……. Sam Young, in San Marcos



Sent from Mail for Windows 10






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[Texascavers] America's First Commercial Caves

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Click on this lengthy URL for an interesting story about some of the first show 
caves in this country.
===Carl Kunath

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/show-caves-arent-telling?utm_source=Atlas+Obscura_campaign=8ffaca8167-Newsletter_3_3_20163_2_2016_medium=email_term=0_62ba9246c0-8ffaca8167-60404097=t(Newsletter_3_3_20163_2_2016)_cid=8ffaca8167_eid=4a86218c00

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[Texascavers] Good Article --- Sandia Man Cave

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

This incredibly long URL will take you an interesting article about Sandia Man 
Cave near Albuquerque, NM.
===Carl Kunath

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/enter-sandia-man-revisiting-the-site-of-a-20th-century-archeological-scandal?utm_source=Atlas+Obscura_campaign=ba6d90fe5d-Newsletter_2_19_20162_18_2016_medium=email_term=0_62ba9246c0-ba6d90fe5d-60404097=t(Newsletter_2_19_20162_18_2016)_cid=ba6d90fe5d_eid=4a86218c00

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[Texascavers] Spring TSA meeting

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Let us hope that the 2016 TSA Convention can be held in Rocksprings for it 
would be a significant historic exclamation point.

These days, we accept an annual convention of Texas cavers as a routine thing 
but it was not always so.  Texas cavers were plodding along 
with no such thing until 1956.  In that year, cavers of the newly formed Texas 
Region of the NSS (not yet the Texas Speleological Association) 
had their first State-wide gathering at Rocksprings, Texas.  With a couple of 
notable exceptions and a few really poor examples, it has been
an annual event ever since.  A caver convention in Rocksprings in 2016 would be 
the 60th anniversary of that seminal event.

You can learn more about that first convention in 1956 by opening your copy of 
50 Years of Texas Caving to page 41.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net




-Original Message- 
From: Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 

Folks, please belay any previous announcements about the TSA Spring Convention. 
They are premature. We do not yet have confirmation on the dates or the site 
yet. But if all goes as planned, it will be the dates and site mentioned. 
Believe me, after the first of the year you will be inundated with my big media 
blitz promoting said event. 

Jim "Crash" Kennedy
TSA Vice-Chair Elect
and TSA Spring Convention Coordinator

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[Texascavers] Jim McLane photo

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Like all of you, I was shocked to receive the news of Jim’s passing.
He was an irrepressible adventurer with a extraordinary intellect.
We will certainly miss his presence in the caving community.

I don’t have too many photos of Jim but I especially like this one 
(photographer unknown) taken 
in his younger days on a visit to Gruta de Carrizal in November 1964.

We are diminished.

===Carl Kunath


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Re: [Texascavers] Punkin Cave Photo

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Arburn doesn't know.
I sent a note to Bunnell seeking that information.
It is a great photo!

===Carl Kunath

-Original Message- 
From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers

Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 7:09 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: [Texascavers] Punkin Cave Photo

Anybody know who took that very nice but uncredited photo of Punkin Cave 
that is in the September NSS News? -- Mixon


True bravery is shown by performing without witnesses what one might be 
capable of doing before all the world.


You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

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[Texascavers] Elizabeth Smith has died

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Many of you are too young, but you older cavers will surely remember Elizabeth, 
first wife of A. Richard “Dick” Smith and mother of their sons Gehren and 
Preston.  Elizabeth was a very active UT caver in the early 1960s and was 
probably the first female to reach the “end” of Indian Creek Cave at the South 
Siphon.  She was a vivacious person and always fun to be with.  She will surely 
be missed.

This message just arrived from her friend and old UT caver, Tom White:


I am sorry to report that Elizabeth Kelly Smith passed away yesterday
morning (4-17) after a short bout with cancer. I am in contact with her
niece but no plans have made as yet for funeral or memorials. I will
pass that on as I hear about them.


You can learn a little more about Elizabeth from the several references in 50 
Years of Texas Caving.

I shall miss my friend.
We are diminished. . . .

===Carl Kunath

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[Texascavers] More about Nicholson

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

If you just can’t get enough of the lore and legend of Frank Nicholson, I point 
you to one of the best reports of his exploits at Carlsbad Cavern in Issue #25 
of Canyons  Caves, the Newsletter of Carlsbad Caverns National Park for summer 
2002:

http://www.nps.gov/cave/planyourvisit/upload/cc25.pdf

The whole Newsletter is a worthwhile read (Texas’ own ex-pat Dale Pate was the 
Editor) but the portion dealing with Nicholson is amusing.  Recommended reading.

As for Nicholson’s academic credentials, the “Dr.” title appears to be 
completely without factual basis -- an affectation he did nothing to 
discourage.  Among those who met Nicholson was Robert Nymeyer who found him “of 
significant arrogance and insignificant stature.”

Read more about Nicholson in Carlsbad The Early Years by Nymeyer and Halliday.  
Recommended reading.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net





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[Texascavers] Frank Nicholson

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Nicholson was quite an interesting fellow but he did his best speleology with a 
typewriter.

He is cited a number of times in 50 Years of Texas Caving ( AKA: The 
Encyclopedia of Texas Caving):

Pg 21, 294:  Cascade Caverns and Longhorn Cave
Pg 35, 308:  There is a brief mention of a grandiose expedition to Cueva de El 
Abra with Bob Hudson and Jimmy Walker
Pg 424:  A note of Nicholson visiting Devil’s Sinkhole

I could have included quite a lot more about Nicholson but the space was better 
reserved for more factual, perhaps more entertaining, accounts.  One of the 
best stories involves his plan to explore a lofty dome in Carlsbad Cavern with 
the use of a balloon.  Explorers would rise to the desired level in a basket 
and step out into unknown passages.  This didn’t happen although it’s a pity as 
we might have learned how he planned to create the necessary clearance above 
the top of the balloon in order to reach the upper area of the dome and also 
how he planned to deal with those sharp, pointy stalactites. 

Nicholson was nothing if not consistent.  Every account of his exploits that he 
authored is wildly exaggerated.  In addition to the Cascade Caverns story 
related below, check out this account of the Devil’s Sinkhole: 

SEPT. 2, 1934

Kerrville – Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, explorer of Carlsbad Cavern in New Mexico, 
has announced that the Devil’s Sinkhole, 65 miles from here, is larger than the 
famous New Mexico cave. Dr. Nicholson recently visited the Clarence Whitworth 
ranch, site of the sinkhole, and conducted a series of explorations. He found 
that the cave’s mouth is about 90 feet in diameter and looks down upon a 
600-foot “mountain peak” which rises to within 271 feet of the surface of the 
ground. The subterranean mountain is a mile in circumference at the base. Dr. 
Nicholson explored several miles of passages with striking and colorful 
formations and saw many other corridors leading away for unknown distances. The 
cave is one of the country’s greatest natural wonders, Dr. Nicholson said.



===Carl Kunath

carl.kun...@suddenlink.net







-Original Message- 
From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 3:31 PM 
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] unique Texas cave 

Published, apparently seriously, in the News-Letter of the Exploration  
Location Committee of the NSS, #1, Jan. 1943:

A condensation of information on the exploration of a limestone cave near 
Boerne, Texas, about 1932 by a party headed by Dr. Frank E. Nicholson, 
indicates that it is perhaps the most unusual phenomenon in our science. The 
information is from an old reference, and anyone having further information on 
this cave please contact this committee. 500 feet within the cave is a 
subterranean lake overhung by stalactites which reach to the surface of the 
water, requiring swimming under water for 200 feet. Occasional pockets permit 
breathing. This expedition penetrated beyond the lake to a great vaulted 
tunnel, which contained a bottomless pit, subterranean spring, and stream. 
Progress was possible to a point one mile from the entrance and 600 feet below 
the surface. The most unusual feature of the cave is that in it were found 
white colored blind crayfish, pheletrodroid salamanders, and blind, white 
translucent frogs. Most unbelievable is the report that at the cave's lowest 
level (one mile from entrance and 600 feet underground) 50 Spanish oak and 
Hackberry trees were found growing. That trees can grow in complete darkness 
with the complete absence of light and sunshine is a phenomenon that demands 
further investigation by speleologists.

The chairman of the committee and presumably author of the piece was Erwin 
Bischoff. Scan of original can be found at
http://www.karstportal.org/FileStorage/NSS_news/1941-v001-001.pdf
--Mixon
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Re: [Texascavers] website of vertical devices

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

It's an amazing collection!  I took many pictures of it when it was on 
display at the 2009 ICS.  Did you see it then?

===ck

-Original Message- 
From: Logan McNatt via Texascavers

Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 11:36 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com ; s...@caver.net
Cc: Gary Storrick
Subject: [Texascavers] website of vertical devices

Dr. Gary Storrick (NSS 12967FE, Michigan) has a website showing every
type of vertical device (ascenders, descenders, belay, and
miscellaneous) that he has been able to collect. Over 1900 items and
constantly increasing. You will recognize many of them commonly used in
caving. Many others are not familiar to cavers, and some are truly
unique, imaginative, or downright bizarre. Check out the photos and
other info:

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml

Thanks to Gary Storrick for creating this website, and to Bill Steele
for telling me about it today.

Logan McNatt (NSS 11274FE, Texas)
lmcn...@austin.rr.com
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Re: [Texascavers] Reporters Editors

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

My experience with the press has been much like Mark Minton's:  Some good; some 
disastrous.

National Geographic was very conscientious as was Texas Highways.

My relationship with AM Press (the Pittman book, Texas Caves) was so bad as to 
be almost black humor.  Suffice to say that despite repeated assurances that I 
would have the opportunity to review my text and photo captions, it didn't 
happen and, as a consequence, there are serious errors.  To top it off, I had 
to threaten to sue to get some of my slides returned.  Live and learn.

My experience with newspaper reporters/columnists has been varied but I am 
always wary and hoping for the best.

Newsletter editors vary quite considerably in expertise and enthusiasm but good 
basic journalism is a quality that really ought to be placed ahead of spell 
checking.  If “two, too, and to” are misused or if “it’s is confused with its,” 
or if an occasional sentence is repeated, we can mostly overlook that so long 
as the photos are properly captioned, credited, and appear in the correct 
location.  As others have pointed out, sometimes the task appears to be above 
pay grade.

===Carl Kunath
carl.kun...@suddenlink.net





-Original Message- 
From: Mark Minton via Texascavers 
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 8:18 PM 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] reporters 

  My experience with reporters has generally been less accommodating than
George's. Most have not been willing to allow me to review their work
before publication. A couple of notable exceptions have been The New
Yorker and National Geographic, both of which seem to be very
conscientious about fact checking and getting things right.
Unfortunately even then inaccuracies manage to make their way into the
final piece. I suspect that George and others are right - the subject
may be so foreign that they don't really understand the implications of
their errors, or care. Sigh.

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Sun, January 18, 2015 3:22 pm, George Veni via Texascavers wrote:

 ask to review the draft article for technical accuracy,

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Re: [Texascavers] TCR 2015 Survey

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Don:

Paradise Canyon is the hands-down favorite for me and for nearly everyone I 
know.
The lack of water is inconvenient but doubtless a temporary condition.
Last year’s site had water but it was so distant and inconveniently placed that 
it was a non-issue for nearly everyone.

October 15-18 is the best date.

Thanks for your efforts in keeping this event going and running smoothly.  I 
plan to make a motion to double your compensation.

===Carl Kunath (the real one)





-Original Message- 
From: Don Arburn via Texascavers 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 10:30 AM 
To: TSA Cavers List 
Subject: [Texascavers] TCR 2015 Survey 

Ok, Cavers, I'm starting to think about this upcoming TCR, locations and dates. 
Paradise Canyon called me yesterday, and asked me to ask around and spread the 
word that if we have any need for a meeting site, he'd be happy to help. We all 
like PC, but they still have no water. It's not a deal killer. It's an option 
for TSA, TCMA and TCR.
How do y'all feel about this site?

Next is the date. There have been several traditional weekends and many 
suggestions etc. I've penciled in the weekend of October 15-18 as a target date.
How do y'all feel about that?


--Don
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[Texascavers] Princeton Tec warranty question

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

I can't speak directly to the corrosion warranty problem but I can tell you 
that they have been cooperative in sending replacement parts for the poorly 
engineered and prone to crack battery compartment doors on their *FUEL* 
headlamps.  Call 1-800-257-9080 and talk to them about your problem.  I 
wouldn't expect PT to be especially sympathetic about your failure to 
monitor battery condition but you never know.

===Carl Kunath

-Original Message- 
From: Mallory via Texascavers

Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 11:56 PM
To: CaveTex
Subject: [Texascavers] Princeton Tec warranty question

Does anyone know if Princeton tecs warranty is rendered null and void if 
there's evidence of corrosion inside the battery pack? I apparently put 
rayovac brand batteries in my backup apex Tec some time ago, they leaked, 
battery connectors got corroded and now my light isn't working. :( it's not 
a huge deal, since I have better lights (thanks, Lee Jay!) but I sure would 
like to get it fixed for the cost of shipping if that's an option.


Any advice or input is appreciated!

Mallory Mayeux
mmay...@gmail.com

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

I think we have everything.  Nearly all was included in 50 YEARS.
===Carl (still in Moab)

From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:59 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

Thanks, Carl. Does TSA have a collection of Helmer's art work?
Fritz

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Carl Kunath via Texascavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


  Yes, I have been in contact with Bill for many years.
  He does live in Boerne.

  ===Carl (from Moab, Utah)

  From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:27 PM
  To: texascavers@texascavers.com
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

  In the late 1950's when I first became interested in caving, I enjoyed seeing 
Helmer's clever Texas Caver covers and other art work. I don't have them now 
but they were priceless. Hey Carl, do you think he could really be living in 
Boerne?
  Fritz Holt
  fritz...@gmail.com


  Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David via Texascavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


Joe Pearce mentioned Bill Helmer.That is a name I haven't heard spoke 
of in

caving circles in a while.When I was a newbie, sitting around the 
campfire in
Carta Valley, or somewhere out west, cavers spoke of him like a legend.

The 2 links below are related and mention someone with the same
name.Is this him ?

http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id59.htm


http://www.angelfire.com/mo/crimeinc/page3.html


If so, the article says he lives in Bourne, Texas ( where ever that is )



Somebody could write a nice article for the Texas Caver about
Bill Helmer.   Right ?

David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Yes, I have been in contact with Bill for many years.
He does live in Boerne.

===Carl (from Moab, Utah)

From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:27 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bill Helmer

In the late 1950's when I first became interested in caving, I enjoyed seeing 
Helmer's clever Texas Caver covers and other art work. I don't have them now 
but they were priceless. Hey Carl, do you think he could really be living in 
Boerne?
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2014, at 10:04 PM, David via Texascavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


  Joe Pearce mentioned Bill Helmer.That is a name I haven't heard spoke of 
in

  caving circles in a while.When I was a newbie, sitting around the 
campfire in
  Carta Valley, or somewhere out west, cavers spoke of him like a legend.

  The 2 links below are related and mention someone with the same
  name.Is this him ?

  http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id59.htm


  http://www.angelfire.com/mo/crimeinc/page3.html


  If so, the article says he lives in Bourne, Texas ( where ever that is )



  Somebody could write a nice article for the Texas Caver about
  Bill Helmer.   Right ?

  David Locklear
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[Texascavers] The Preston McMichael Award

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Recently, Fritz Holt was wondering, “What ever happened to the Preston 
McMichael Caving Award?”
Fritz, the award is given at the discretion of the TSA Executive Committee or a 
committee appointed by the TSA Chairman.  The subject arises occasionally when 
TSA leaders are mindful of their responsibilities and opportunities.

Here's the short history of the award:

“At the TSA Members Meeting held at the 2003 TCR, the membership decided to 
reinstate the Preston McMichael Award.  The Preston McMichael Award was 
established in 1969 at the 19 April TSA BOG meeting at Southwest Texas State 
University, in honor and recognition of the passing of Preston McMichael.  
Preston was an excellent example of a caver who pioneered caving in a new area 
of the state and carefully cultivated cave owner relations at the same time.  
Preston’s caving activities began in the late 1950s and ended with his untimely 
death in January 1967.  He was a talented artist and musician and had a great 
future ahead of him in many ways.  We were diminished as a result of his loss 
but may continue to profit from his example.

James Reddell was the first recipient of the award in October 1969.  The second 
recipient was Carl Kunath and the staff of the Texas Caver in October 1970.  It 
was awarded sporadically throughout the 1970s and faded from collective memory 
in the early 1980s.

As currently defined, the Preston McMichael Award:

“shall be awarded annually by the Texas Speleological Association in 
recognition of meritorious contribution to Texas caving.  The award shall 
consist of $50.00 as well as recognition at a TSA function and in a TSA 
publication.  If the recipient is not a current member of the TSA, honorary 
membership may be awarded.  The award may be retroactive.  Choice of awardees 
shall be made by the Executive Committee or a committee appointed by the TSA 
chairman.”

Despite the operative phrase shall be awarded annually it doesn't happen very 
often.  If you know of someone that has made a lasting and significant 
contribution to Texas caving and has not already received the award, please 
send your nomination to the TSA Chairman.

===Carl Kunath
From: Fritz Holt via Texascavers 
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:12 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] a road-trip story

Yes, unfortunately, my old friend and caving buddy, Preston McMichael has been 
dead for a number of years. What ever happened to the Preston McMichael Caving 
Award? It was resurrected a few years ago but I haven't heard of it in recent 
years. Preston was quite a guy and the most gung-ho caver I ever knew. 
Fritz Holt
fritz...@gmail.com
(Triple Creek Ranch)

 

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Re: [Texascavers] Photos Luckenbach Sept. 1978

[Carl Kunath via Texascavers]

Bob:
Thanks for posting those photos.
Would you furnish those to the TSS archives  as versions with somewhat more 
resolution?
Maybe 300K to 1 MB or so.

Thanks,
===Carl (TSS archives staff)


From: Bob West via Texascavers 
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:34 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: [Texascavers] Photos Luckenbach Sept. 1978

Here is a link to facebook photo album of all the photos I have of 1st Texas 
Old Timers' Reunion...
...gathering at the old cotton gin in Luckenbach...

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.127431190689270.21883.12671681186type=1l=eef680bf0f

Carl,  thanks for posting the registration sheets!


Bob West
rawest...@hotmail.com




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[Texascavers] Katherine Goodbar has passed

[Carl Kunath]

It is with a heavy heart that I must announce the passing of Katherine Goodbar 
(NSS 5538) on July 18 at age 93.

Katherine became interested in caving in the early 1960s and the entire Goodbar 
family was a fixture at all the Texas caving activities for many years.  Her 
husband, Blair, passed away much too soon in 1967 and with three children to 
raise, Katherine’s active caving was severely curtailed.  Nevertheless, she 
remained interested in the caving world and encouraged her children to follow 
their interests.  Many of you will be acquainted with her son, Jim Goodbar.  
Jim has made a name for himself in the caving world for 50 years.

Katherine served TSA as Secretary-Treasurer for three consecutive terms in 
1963-1965.  Her fellow officers for those years were Chuck Larsen, Orion Knox, 
Pete Lindsley, and Carl Kunath.  They all felt Katherine did a wonderful job 
for TSA and they all remained friends through the following years.

Katherine had a Masters in Education from Texas AM and was a science teacher 
for many years.  In 2000 she was interviewed 
by a representative of the Conservation History Association of Texas.  The 
transcript of that excellent interview may be seen at:

http://texaslegacy.org/bb/transcripts/goodbarkatherinetxt.html

Services will be at the Greenville Avenue Unity Church in Dallas with interment 
at Huntsville, Texas.

We are diminished.

íVaya con Dios, amiga!

===Carl Kunath



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[Texascavers] 20 years ago - just reminiscing

[Carl Kunath]

See also:  50 Years of Texas Caving, pages 133-137.

===Carl Kunath





-Original Message- 
From: Jacqueline Thomas 
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:22 AM 
To: CaveTex 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] 20 years ago - just reminiscing 

I didn't start caving until 1999  wasn't in Texas; I really appreciate the 
picture you've created. Jacqui




 On May 24, 2014, at 2:05 AM, David dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Quite a few of you remember what was going on at this time on
 the Texas caving scene in May of 1994.I was just an observer,
 although I did go on one or 2 road-trips to Bracketville, from Houston.
 
 2 cavers were very hard at work finishing up one of the best books about
 Texas caves, and lots of cavers were assisting them.
 
 Another caver was planning an incredible show recreating the battle
 of the Alamo.
 
 Swamp coolers were being installed by volunteer cavers that had travelled
 from all over the state to one of the non-air-conditioned buildings at
 Fort Clark
 and caver-electricians were having to gerry-rig the whole set up.
 
 Cavers were visiting caves in and around Bracketville to plan for convention
 trips.
 
 The 1994 NSS Convention, was a major event in my life.   It was my
 first introduction
 to the NSS. Prior to that, I was
 personally spending most of my spare time south of the border.And
 after that,
 I made an effort to attend future conventions, and thus had less
 resources available
 to go on trips south of the border.
 
 
 On a related note,
 
 It was not just a different time.  It was a different world.
 
 All of that hard work was done without Cavetex, texting, and
 smartphones, and Facebook, etc. Any cavers that had a computer were
 using Windows 3.1 and saving their work to a floppy disk, and not on a
 laptop.  I bet typewriters were still being used by some.   Gas only
 cost about $ 1.10.   On the world newsfront, Monica Lewinsky had not
 yet met Bill Clinton, and the world ( not me ) was still anxiously
 awaiting news updates over the Clinton scandals of Whitewater and
 Paula Jones.Most of us were spending less than 10 minutes a day on
 the internet, if any at all.Most cavers still had
 cassette-tape-decks in their cars.  Quite a few of our caving friends
 at the 1994 convention are no longer with us.   I am certain none of
 us could have predicted the tragedies that happened just a few years
 after the convention.Here is a toast to them.
 
 http://www.cavetexas.org/rmiller/
 
 http://www.edwardsaquifer.net/images/las_moras_springs_pool.jpg
 
 
 David Locklear

[Texascavers] Mystery Cave 3

[Carl Kunath]

Emerald Sink @ Langtry.

[Texascavers] Civility and suitability of TexasCavers postings

[Carl Kunath]

I am often amazed at some of the utterly tasteless and inappropriate postings I 
read on TexasCavers.  Some postings have been rated “R” or even “X.  Other 
postings are actually more a personal blog or diary and have no place in a 
forum where others must then wade through your account of having a flat tire on 
the way to breakfast on the day of the Grotto meeting.  That sort of thing 
dilutes the quality of TexasCavers and has caused some members to unsubscribe.  
This is the price we pay for the freedom of an unmoderated listserve.

That aside, Denise is absolutely correct with her comment about how e-mails 
should be directed.  I see some postings directed to all TexasCavers 
subscribers that begin with a single name and are directed solely toward one 
person (or a very small group).  Those messages do not directly concern all 
subscribers.  If it’s a personal comment, please direct it to that person.  One 
personal posting often leads to several follow-up postings that add nothing to 
the thread.  It’s all too easy to click “reply all” when it would be more 
appropriate to change the address box so that your two word response, “Me, 
too!” goes only to Joe Caver and not to the 99% of other subscribers who care 
not a whit about Joe’s earlier posting and even less that you agree with Joe 
Caver’s first comment that, often as not, is now completely detached from the 
original thread and misidentified on the Subject line.

The fuss is mostly just an issue of e-mail etiquette.  Before you post to 
TexasCavers, think for a moment, especially before you click “reply all.”  Will 
quite a few readers be interested in your posting or should it be sent 
privately?  Is it civil and reasonably on-topic for the group?  Is the subject 
line appropriate for the message?  Do you really need to include all previous 
postings to a certain thread to make your point?  Maybe it’s time to delete a 
few.

===Carl Kunath




From: Denise P 
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 7:17 PM

This is a public forum, and I think a general policy of civility is in order. 

If a person has a beef with someone, it would be nice if they kept their emails 
directed only to that person so we on Cavetex don't have to see it. 

You're bringing me down!

My two cents,
Denise

[SWR] Fort Stanton survey book

[Carl Kunath]

Time flies when you’re having fun. . . .

That appears to be a good example of the survey book that was widely in use in 
Texas in the 1960s.  I think it was a Pete Lindsley design.  It became the 
official TSA survey book in hopes of promoting better uniformity in our survey 
techniques which were not all that good at the time.  Getting all that 
information on the front cover was a huge step forward!

===Carl Kunath

From: John Corcoran 
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:44 PM
To: 'Andy Komensky' ; s...@caver.net 
Subject: Re: [SWR] Fort Stanton

Thanks Andy,

 

I remember that you were on the very first survey team for FSCSP when we 
started at the entrance and began the Main Corridor survey (see attached survey 
book cover)!  So you helped start things some 46 years ago…

 

Regards,

 

John

 

From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Andy 
Komensky
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 7:43 AM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: [SWR] Fort Stanton

 

Congrats to all of you who received the award.

Proud to say that at one time or another I had the opportunity to cave with 
some of you and sorry that I never had the chance to meet the rest of you.,

Cave h, 

Andy




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[SWR] Fort Stanton survey book

[Carl Kunath]

Time flies when you’re having fun. . . .

That appears to be a good example of the survey book that was widely in use in 
Texas in the 1960s.  I think it was a Pete Lindsley design.  It became the 
official TSA survey book in hopes of promoting better uniformity in our survey 
techniques which were not all that good at the time.  Getting all that 
information on the front cover was a huge step forward!

===Carl Kunath

From: John Corcoran 
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:44 PM
To: 'Andy Komensky' ; s...@caver.net 
Subject: Re: [SWR] Fort Stanton

Thanks Andy,

 

I remember that you were on the very first survey team for FSCSP when we 
started at the entrance and began the Main Corridor survey (see attached survey 
book cover)!  So you helped start things some 46 years ago…

 

Regards,

 

John

 

From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Andy 
Komensky
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 7:43 AM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: [SWR] Fort Stanton

 

Congrats to all of you who received the award.

Proud to say that at one time or another I had the opportunity to cave with 
some of you and sorry that I never had the chance to meet the rest of you.,

Cave h, 

Andy




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[SWR] Fort Stanton survey book

[Carl Kunath]

Time flies when you’re having fun. . . .

That appears to be a good example of the survey book that was widely in use in 
Texas in the 1960s.  I think it was a Pete Lindsley design.  It became the 
official TSA survey book in hopes of promoting better uniformity in our survey 
techniques which were not all that good at the time.  Getting all that 
information on the front cover was a huge step forward!

===Carl Kunath

From: John Corcoran 
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 3:44 PM
To: 'Andy Komensky' ; s...@caver.net 
Subject: Re: [SWR] Fort Stanton

Thanks Andy,

 

I remember that you were on the very first survey team for FSCSP when we 
started at the entrance and began the Main Corridor survey (see attached survey 
book cover)!  So you helped start things some 46 years ago…

 

Regards,

 

John

 

From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Andy 
Komensky
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 7:43 AM
To: s...@caver.net
Subject: [SWR] Fort Stanton

 

Congrats to all of you who received the award.

Proud to say that at one time or another I had the opportunity to cave with 
some of you and sorry that I never had the chance to meet the rest of you.,

Cave h, 

Andy




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[Texascavers] Bob Hudson

[Carl Kunath]

Fritz, et al:

You can read about Bob Hudson in 50 YEARS of TEXAS CAVING.  He is quite an 
important person in the history of Texas caving.  I was in touch with Bob in 
the mid-1960s and much of the very early history of Texas caving comes from the 
information he shared with me in several lengthy letters.  

Time passed and eventually, the link was lost.

While researching for the 50 YEARS book, the search for Bob was renewed.  Over 
several years time, all avenues were explored without success.  He is thought 
to be deceased but that is not an absolute certainty.

Anything can happen and the Internet is a far more powerful tool these days.  
If anyone has information, please pass it along.

===Carl Kunath (from Guatemala City)





From: Fritz Holt 

Subject: old member trying to find another old member


Does anyone know the whereabouts or status of Bob Hudson? He was a well known 
caver in the 50's and 60's. I accompanied Jimmy Walker and Bob on one of the 
earliest trips into The Caverns of Sonora (then Mayfield Cave) in about 
December, 1955. Jimmy lost track of Bob in the 60's and assumes he is dead. 
Does anyone have a suggestion on learning his status? Thanks, Fritz Holt

[Texascavers] Bob Hudson

[Carl Kunath]

Fritz, et al:

You can read about Bob Hudson in 50 YEARS of TEXAS CAVING.  He is quite an 
important person in the history of Texas caving.  I was in touch with Bob in 
the mid-1960s and much of the very early history of Texas caving comes from the 
information he shared with me in several lengthy letters.  

Time passed and eventually, the link was lost.

While researching for the 50 YEARS book, the search for Bob was renewed.  Over 
several years time, all avenues were explored without success.  He is thought 
to be deceased but that is not an absolute certainty.

Anything can happen and the Internet is a far more powerful tool these days.  
If anyone has information, please pass it along.

===Carl Kunath (from Guatemala City)





From: Fritz Holt 

Subject: old member trying to find another old member


Does anyone know the whereabouts or status of Bob Hudson? He was a well known 
caver in the 50's and 60's. I accompanied Jimmy Walker and Bob on one of the 
earliest trips into The Caverns of Sonora (then Mayfield Cave) in about 
December, 1955. Jimmy lost track of Bob in the 60's and assumes he is dead. 
Does anyone have a suggestion on learning his status? Thanks, Fritz Holt

[Texascavers] Bob Hudson

[Carl Kunath]

Fritz, et al:

You can read about Bob Hudson in 50 YEARS of TEXAS CAVING.  He is quite an 
important person in the history of Texas caving.  I was in touch with Bob in 
the mid-1960s and much of the very early history of Texas caving comes from the 
information he shared with me in several lengthy letters.  

Time passed and eventually, the link was lost.

While researching for the 50 YEARS book, the search for Bob was renewed.  Over 
several years time, all avenues were explored without success.  He is thought 
to be deceased but that is not an absolute certainty.

Anything can happen and the Internet is a far more powerful tool these days.  
If anyone has information, please pass it along.

===Carl Kunath (from Guatemala City)





From: Fritz Holt 

Subject: old member trying to find another old member


Does anyone know the whereabouts or status of Bob Hudson? He was a well known 
caver in the 50's and 60's. I accompanied Jimmy Walker and Bob on one of the 
earliest trips into The Caverns of Sonora (then Mayfield Cave) in about 
December, 1955. Jimmy lost track of Bob in the 60's and assumes he is dead. 
Does anyone have a suggestion on learning his status? Thanks, Fritz Holt

[Texascavers] Remembering Palmito

[Carl Kunath]

Mimi:

Palmito has made a lasting impression on many of us.  Your story reminds me 
that it is now just a few days past 50 years ago that I went to Bustamante and 
Gruta del Palmito for the first time with Bill Gray and others of the original 
Alamo Grotto.  I  remember it well.  I was stunned!

In a way, Palmito (now Grutas de Bustamante) is a time capsule of Texas caver’s 
experience in Mexico.  In half a century, the situation has changed 
drastically.  In the early days, cavers rode the train to Bustamante because 
the dirt road was too difficult for the few passenger cars in the caver 
community.  Bustamante was a very sleepy little village with no traffic lights 
and very few amenities.  There were no formalities required to visit the cave.  
Many visitors who planned more than a day visit recruited local burro-wranglers 
to get their heavy and bulky equipment up the steep trail to the cave.

In short, those early visits were something of an exotic experience.  For many, 
it was their first exposure to Mexico other than border towns and almost always 
their first experience in a cave of such mind-blowing proportions.  You had 
free-run of the cave.

In time, visits became more routine and the cave became a traditional “break in 
the newbies” trip for several grottos.  Later, Texas cavers spearheaded efforts 
to clean the cave of decades of trash and graffiti.  Cavers were continuously 
promoting the recreational and economic aspects of the cave to the Mexican 
people  but things moved very slowly.  Through the years, the efforts of the 
Amigos de la Gruta program made a huge difference in the appearance of the 
cave.  Slowly but surely, support came from the people of Bustamante, the State 
of Nuevo Leon, and the Federal government of Mexico.

Now, half a century after some of those early trips, it is a classic case of 
“shooting yourself in the foot.”  We promoted and popularized the cave so well 
we finally lost access to it.  Grutas de Bustamante is not a wild cave anymore. 
 You reach Bustamante on a nice paved road and perhaps have a cold drink at the 
Plaza.  Then you buy a ticket and drive to the base of the mountain on another 
paved road.  From there, you are transported up the mountain on a winding road 
to the new tunnel entrance.  Now, you follow the guide for a tour of the 
entrance room.  Leave your hard hat at home.

We helped restore, preserve, and protect the cave that we loved but in the 
process we lost the opportunity for an amazing caving experience.

The caving literature is full of stories and photos about this great cave but 
you can most conveniently learn more about Grutas de Bustamante on pages 
435-440 in 50 Years of Texas Caving.

===Carl Kunath

From: Mimi Jasek 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:14 PM
To: Louise Power 
Cc: texas cavers 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Remembering



I'm one of those girls who has all kinds of special dates on my calendar, but 
that day probably tops them all. That trip changed my life, it's direction, and 
gave me my best friend for life. Took me into a world I did not know existed, 
asked of and gave more to me than anything I could have imagined, brought me in 
touch with a lot of amazing people, and the trip has yet to end!

How can one not celebrate that?

Mimi

   From: mjca...@gmail.com
   Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:32:46 -0500
   To: texascavers@texascavers.com
   Subject: [Texascavers] Remembering
   
   40 years ago right about now sitting in the border crossing building on my 
first trip to Mexico, first cave trip, first camping trip. Destination - Gruta 
del Palmito. Met my own future cave man on that trip, and have never stopped 
wanting to go underground. Don't think anyone ever wrote up that trip, either.
   
   Time flies when you're having fun:)
   
   Mimi Jasek
   
   Sent from my iPhone
   -
   Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
   To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
   For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
   

[Texascavers] Remembering Palmito

[Carl Kunath]

Mimi:

Palmito has made a lasting impression on many of us.  Your story reminds me 
that it is now just a few days past 50 years ago that I went to Bustamante and 
Gruta del Palmito for the first time with Bill Gray and others of the original 
Alamo Grotto.  I  remember it well.  I was stunned!

In a way, Palmito (now Grutas de Bustamante) is a time capsule of Texas caver’s 
experience in Mexico.  In half a century, the situation has changed 
drastically.  In the early days, cavers rode the train to Bustamante because 
the dirt road was too difficult for the few passenger cars in the caver 
community.  Bustamante was a very sleepy little village with no traffic lights 
and very few amenities.  There were no formalities required to visit the cave.  
Many visitors who planned more than a day visit recruited local burro-wranglers 
to get their heavy and bulky equipment up the steep trail to the cave.

In short, those early visits were something of an exotic experience.  For many, 
it was their first exposure to Mexico other than border towns and almost always 
their first experience in a cave of such mind-blowing proportions.  You had 
free-run of the cave.

In time, visits became more routine and the cave became a traditional “break in 
the newbies” trip for several grottos.  Later, Texas cavers spearheaded efforts 
to clean the cave of decades of trash and graffiti.  Cavers were continuously 
promoting the recreational and economic aspects of the cave to the Mexican 
people  but things moved very slowly.  Through the years, the efforts of the 
Amigos de la Gruta program made a huge difference in the appearance of the 
cave.  Slowly but surely, support came from the people of Bustamante, the State 
of Nuevo Leon, and the Federal government of Mexico.

Now, half a century after some of those early trips, it is a classic case of 
“shooting yourself in the foot.”  We promoted and popularized the cave so well 
we finally lost access to it.  Grutas de Bustamante is not a wild cave anymore. 
 You reach Bustamante on a nice paved road and perhaps have a cold drink at the 
Plaza.  Then you buy a ticket and drive to the base of the mountain on another 
paved road.  From there, you are transported up the mountain on a winding road 
to the new tunnel entrance.  Now, you follow the guide for a tour of the 
entrance room.  Leave your hard hat at home.

We helped restore, preserve, and protect the cave that we loved but in the 
process we lost the opportunity for an amazing caving experience.

The caving literature is full of stories and photos about this great cave but 
you can most conveniently learn more about Grutas de Bustamante on pages 
435-440 in 50 Years of Texas Caving.

===Carl Kunath

From: Mimi Jasek 
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 11:14 PM
To: Louise Power 
Cc: texas cavers 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Remembering



I'm one of those girls who has all kinds of special dates on my calendar, but 
that day probably tops them all. That trip changed my life, it's direction, and 
gave me my best friend for life. Took me into a world I did not know existed, 
asked of and gave more to me than anything I could have imagined, brought me in 
touch with a lot of amazing people, and the trip has yet to end!

How can one not celebrate that?

Mimi

   From: mjca...@gmail.com
   Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:32:46 -0500
   To: texascavers@texascavers.com
   Subject: [Texascavers] Remembering
   
   40 years ago right about now sitting in the border crossing building on my 
first trip to Mexico, first cave trip, first camping trip. Destination - Gruta 
del Palmito. Met my own future cave man on that trip, and have never stopped 
wanting to go underground. Don't think anyone ever wrote up that trip, either.
   
   Time flies when you're having fun:)
   
   Mimi Jasek
   
   Sent from my iPhone
   -
   Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
   To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
   For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
   

[Texascavers] Project X-Ray

[Carl Kunath]

See also 50 Years of Texas Caving, page 22, first paragraph.

“The story of Dr. Lytle S. Adams and what was eventually named “Project X-Ray” 
is truly a Texas-size tale.  Briefly, the time was 1942-1943, the US was at war 
with Japan and the idea was to capture bats, attach incendiary devices and 
release them over strategic areas of Japan.  The bats would take refuge 
wherever they could and the resulting simultaneous fires would wreak havoc on 
the enemy.  It is reported that the search for the largest concentrations of 
suitable bats included 1,000 caves and 3,000 mines.  Eventually, Bracken and 
Ney caves were selected as best suited and their entrances were screened to 
collect the free-tailed bat, Tadarida mexicana.  This bat, weighing only 
one-third ounce, was selected for its ability to carry a bomb-load of one 
ounce.  Although never put into action against Japan, the idea was proven 
viable when a couple of bomb-equipped bats escaped and the resulting fires 
burned most of a military installation near Carlsbad, New Mexico.”


===Carl Kunath

From: Bill Bentley 
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 12:01 PM
To: Louise Power ; texas cavers ; s...@caver.net 
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Curious about WWII bat bombs?

You should read the book about Project X-Ray called the Bat Bomb... very 
interesting reading

Bill...
  - Original Message - 
  From: Louise Power 
  To: texas cavers ; s...@caver.net 
  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:54 AM
  Subject: [SWR] Curious about WWII bat bombs?

  Take a look at this:
   
  
http://msnvideo.msn.com/?channelindex=4from=en-us_msnhp#/video/a028c91e-8f5e-43bf-a6a3-4fa70c9f4613



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[Texascavers] Project X-Ray

[Carl Kunath]

See also 50 Years of Texas Caving, page 22, first paragraph.

“The story of Dr. Lytle S. Adams and what was eventually named “Project X-Ray” 
is truly a Texas-size tale.  Briefly, the time was 1942-1943, the US was at war 
with Japan and the idea was to capture bats, attach incendiary devices and 
release them over strategic areas of Japan.  The bats would take refuge 
wherever they could and the resulting simultaneous fires would wreak havoc on 
the enemy.  It is reported that the search for the largest concentrations of 
suitable bats included 1,000 caves and 3,000 mines.  Eventually, Bracken and 
Ney caves were selected as best suited and their entrances were screened to 
collect the free-tailed bat, Tadarida mexicana.  This bat, weighing only 
one-third ounce, was selected for its ability to carry a bomb-load of one 
ounce.  Although never put into action against Japan, the idea was proven 
viable when a couple of bomb-equipped bats escaped and the resulting fires 
burned most of a military installation near Carlsbad, New Mexico.”


===Carl Kunath

From: Bill Bentley 
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 12:01 PM
To: Louise Power ; texas cavers ; s...@caver.net 
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Curious about WWII bat bombs?

You should read the book about Project X-Ray called the Bat Bomb... very 
interesting reading

Bill...
  - Original Message - 
  From: Louise Power 
  To: texas cavers ; s...@caver.net 
  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:54 AM
  Subject: [SWR] Curious about WWII bat bombs?

  Take a look at this:
   
  
http://msnvideo.msn.com/?channelindex=4from=en-us_msnhp#/video/a028c91e-8f5e-43bf-a6a3-4fa70c9f4613



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  http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
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[Texascavers] Project X-Ray

[Carl Kunath]

See also 50 Years of Texas Caving, page 22, first paragraph.

“The story of Dr. Lytle S. Adams and what was eventually named “Project X-Ray” 
is truly a Texas-size tale.  Briefly, the time was 1942-1943, the US was at war 
with Japan and the idea was to capture bats, attach incendiary devices and 
release them over strategic areas of Japan.  The bats would take refuge 
wherever they could and the resulting simultaneous fires would wreak havoc on 
the enemy.  It is reported that the search for the largest concentrations of 
suitable bats included 1,000 caves and 3,000 mines.  Eventually, Bracken and 
Ney caves were selected as best suited and their entrances were screened to 
collect the free-tailed bat, Tadarida mexicana.  This bat, weighing only 
one-third ounce, was selected for its ability to carry a bomb-load of one 
ounce.  Although never put into action against Japan, the idea was proven 
viable when a couple of bomb-equipped bats escaped and the resulting fires 
burned most of a military installation near Carlsbad, New Mexico.”


===Carl Kunath

From: Bill Bentley 
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 12:01 PM
To: Louise Power ; texas cavers ; s...@caver.net 
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: [SWR] Curious about WWII bat bombs?

You should read the book about Project X-Ray called the Bat Bomb... very 
interesting reading

Bill...
  - Original Message - 
  From: Louise Power 
  To: texas cavers ; s...@caver.net 
  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:54 AM
  Subject: [SWR] Curious about WWII bat bombs?

  Take a look at this:
   
  
http://msnvideo.msn.com/?channelindex=4from=en-us_msnhp#/video/a028c91e-8f5e-43bf-a6a3-4fa70c9f4613



--
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  s...@caver.net
  http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
  ___
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[Texascavers] Joe King Carrasco

[Carl Kunath]

Some of you may not have heard any of Carrasco’s music which has variously been 
described as “wavo nuevo” and “tequila reggae.”  Dig around and see if you can 
give a listen to such classics as Jalepeño Con Big Red, Federales, and Caca de 
Vaca.  

You can get a sample by surfing around on YouTube.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3DyiElJV14

What a pity he was not available for ICS 2009!

===Carl Kunath

From: speleoste...@aol.com 
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:36 AM
To: gi...@att.net ; texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Austin Lounge Lizards

Here's a little morsel about Joe King Carrasco. In 1979 the Huautla Project 
held a benefit concert at Soap Creek Saloon in Austin to raise money to buy 
caving rope. Through Jim Lawless, a housemate of Blake Harrison's, I lined up 
Joe King to play at it. His band was to be one of three bands playing that 
night. But at the last minute he had to go to his mother's unexpected wedding 
in Utah. He told me that he would make good on it someday.

Fast forward nearly 30 years. When I was recruited to be in charge of the Howdy 
Party for the ICS in 2009, and starting in 2007, I contacted Joe King through 
Ruff Daniels, who owns property next to some Joe King has near Marble Falls. 
King said he'd do it and to keep checking back with him. So I did. When it 
got to be within a few months, and he was living in Cabo San Lucas, Baja 
California and playing in bars there, he told me, I can't tell you for sure 
that I can be there! You're asking me to play in Texas in eight months, and I 
don't know where I'll be in eight days. 

So I canceled on Joe King Carrasco performing at the ICS Howdy Party and went 
instead with the Dusty Britches Band.

Joe King knows some cavers and knows about caving.

Bill Steele 

In a message dated 5/5/2013 8:07:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gi...@att.net 
writes:
  Does anybody know anything about this song, supposed to be released on 7 May 
2013 by the Austin Lounge Lizards?  

  “Spelunking with Joe King Carrasco” (a brilliantly layered, 
corrido-inflected ballad about, well, you get the idea).


  A friend of mine from Maryland said he heard it on the radio today. 


  Some of yall will remember when the Austin Lounge Lizards used to play at TCR 
back when they were affordable and we had some insiders working magic.Others of 
you won't.  
  --Ediger

[Texascavers] Joe King Carrasco

[Carl Kunath]

Some of you may not have heard any of Carrasco’s music which has variously been 
described as “wavo nuevo” and “tequila reggae.”  Dig around and see if you can 
give a listen to such classics as Jalepeño Con Big Red, Federales, and Caca de 
Vaca.  

You can get a sample by surfing around on YouTube.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3DyiElJV14

What a pity he was not available for ICS 2009!

===Carl Kunath

From: speleoste...@aol.com 
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:36 AM
To: gi...@att.net ; texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Austin Lounge Lizards

Here's a little morsel about Joe King Carrasco. In 1979 the Huautla Project 
held a benefit concert at Soap Creek Saloon in Austin to raise money to buy 
caving rope. Through Jim Lawless, a housemate of Blake Harrison's, I lined up 
Joe King to play at it. His band was to be one of three bands playing that 
night. But at the last minute he had to go to his mother's unexpected wedding 
in Utah. He told me that he would make good on it someday.

Fast forward nearly 30 years. When I was recruited to be in charge of the Howdy 
Party for the ICS in 2009, and starting in 2007, I contacted Joe King through 
Ruff Daniels, who owns property next to some Joe King has near Marble Falls. 
King said he'd do it and to keep checking back with him. So I did. When it 
got to be within a few months, and he was living in Cabo San Lucas, Baja 
California and playing in bars there, he told me, I can't tell you for sure 
that I can be there! You're asking me to play in Texas in eight months, and I 
don't know where I'll be in eight days. 

So I canceled on Joe King Carrasco performing at the ICS Howdy Party and went 
instead with the Dusty Britches Band.

Joe King knows some cavers and knows about caving.

Bill Steele 

In a message dated 5/5/2013 8:07:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gi...@att.net 
writes:
  Does anybody know anything about this song, supposed to be released on 7 May 
2013 by the Austin Lounge Lizards?  

  “Spelunking with Joe King Carrasco” (a brilliantly layered, 
corrido-inflected ballad about, well, you get the idea).


  A friend of mine from Maryland said he heard it on the radio today. 


  Some of yall will remember when the Austin Lounge Lizards used to play at TCR 
back when they were affordable and we had some insiders working magic.Others of 
you won't.  
  --Ediger

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Business Meeting Minutes

[Carl Kunath]

Incredible!
TSA has been blessed with some wonderful Secretaries through the years but I 
believe Heather has just raised the bar another notch.  

Imagine!  Minutes made available a mere 75 hours after the meeting!  

Heather, you are a gem!

===Carl Kunath

From: Heather Tucek 
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:10 PM
To: Texas Cavers 
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Business Meeting Minutes

Hi y'all! 

Thanks to everyone who can out to the TSA Convention this past weekend, and a 
HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who put their time and effort in to making it 
happen! 


The minutes taken from the TSA Business Meeting on Saturday afternoon are now 
online to be viewed (Thanks, Butch!)

You can find the minutes at:  
http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2013-04-06.pdf (direct link).

Homepage link:  http://cavetexas.org/

Minutes Menu page:   http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html






-h





-- 
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary  Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org 

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Business Meeting Minutes

[Carl Kunath]

Incredible!
TSA has been blessed with some wonderful Secretaries through the years but I 
believe Heather has just raised the bar another notch.  

Imagine!  Minutes made available a mere 75 hours after the meeting!  

Heather, you are a gem!

===Carl Kunath

From: Heather Tucek 
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:10 PM
To: Texas Cavers 
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Business Meeting Minutes

Hi y'all! 

Thanks to everyone who can out to the TSA Convention this past weekend, and a 
HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who put their time and effort in to making it 
happen! 


The minutes taken from the TSA Business Meeting on Saturday afternoon are now 
online to be viewed (Thanks, Butch!)

You can find the minutes at:  
http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2013-04-06.pdf (direct link).

Homepage link:  http://cavetexas.org/

Minutes Menu page:   http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html






-h





-- 
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary  Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org 

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Business Meeting Minutes

[Carl Kunath]

Incredible!
TSA has been blessed with some wonderful Secretaries through the years but I 
believe Heather has just raised the bar another notch.  

Imagine!  Minutes made available a mere 75 hours after the meeting!  

Heather, you are a gem!

===Carl Kunath

From: Heather Tucek 
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:10 PM
To: Texas Cavers 
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Business Meeting Minutes

Hi y'all! 

Thanks to everyone who can out to the TSA Convention this past weekend, and a 
HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who put their time and effort in to making it 
happen! 


The minutes taken from the TSA Business Meeting on Saturday afternoon are now 
online to be viewed (Thanks, Butch!)

You can find the minutes at:  
http://cavetexas.org/PDF/TSA/Minutes-2013-04-06.pdf (direct link).

Homepage link:  http://cavetexas.org/

Minutes Menu page:   http://cavetexas.org/TSA/meetingminutes.html






-h





-- 
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary  Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
trog...@cavechat.org 

[Texascavers] TSA Convention 2013

[Carl Kunath]

I’ve been to many TSA Conventions.  This must rank as one of the very best.

Thanks, to Roger Moore and the many, many others who played important roles in 
making this event a great success.
Thanks to the many Texas cavers who attended in support of this gathering.
Very special thanks to Tom Summers, gracious owner of CWAN, for agreeing to 
host this Convention!  

The weather was cooperative and the venue was extraordinary.  I believe this 
was the best-behaved, most considerate audience for many years.  Those in 
attendance gave the presenters appropriate attention, rarely came and went 
during the programs, and generally refrained from inappropriately chatting with 
their neighbors.  If you read the foregoing and say, “well DUH,” think back to 
the horrible situation we had at Kerrville State Park a few years ago when 
those in the back of the room were repeatedly admonished to “settle down or 
take it outside.”

This year it was all good.  Thanks everyone!

===Carl Kunath

[Texascavers] TSA Convention 2013

[Carl Kunath]

I’ve been to many TSA Conventions.  This must rank as one of the very best.

Thanks, to Roger Moore and the many, many others who played important roles in 
making this event a great success.
Thanks to the many Texas cavers who attended in support of this gathering.
Very special thanks to Tom Summers, gracious owner of CWAN, for agreeing to 
host this Convention!  

The weather was cooperative and the venue was extraordinary.  I believe this 
was the best-behaved, most considerate audience for many years.  Those in 
attendance gave the presenters appropriate attention, rarely came and went 
during the programs, and generally refrained from inappropriately chatting with 
their neighbors.  If you read the foregoing and say, “well DUH,” think back to 
the horrible situation we had at Kerrville State Park a few years ago when 
those in the back of the room were repeatedly admonished to “settle down or 
take it outside.”

This year it was all good.  Thanks everyone!

===Carl Kunath

[SWR] Meador Remembered

[Carl Kunath]

Actually, there was a portion of the Guadalupe Room extension at CCNP that 
was known as the Meador Pincher.
This constriction was near the beginning of the route and had to be enlarged 
to allow Tom to pass.

I'm not sure if the name was official enough to make it onto the maps.

===Carl Kunath

-Original Message- 
From: Bob Buecher

Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 12:56 AM
To: Pete Lindsley ; Jim Evatt
Cc: Southwestern Region
Subject: Re: [SWR] Remembrance Disappointed

Jim,
Thanks for remembering Tom!

I must say that I have always been disappointed that no one has named a cave
or portion of a cave after Tom.

Perhaps it might be appropriate to name some feature of Ft. Stanton's Snowy
River after Tom.  It may be Snowy River but it is also a river of milk ...
and where else would you expect to see Tom.

Bob Buecher


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[SWR] Meador Remembered

[Carl Kunath]

Actually, there was a portion of the Guadalupe Room extension at CCNP that 
was known as the Meador Pincher.
This constriction was near the beginning of the route and had to be enlarged 
to allow Tom to pass.

I'm not sure if the name was official enough to make it onto the maps.

===Carl Kunath

-Original Message- 
From: Bob Buecher

Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 12:56 AM
To: Pete Lindsley ; Jim Evatt
Cc: Southwestern Region
Subject: Re: [SWR] Remembrance Disappointed

Jim,
Thanks for remembering Tom!

I must say that I have always been disappointed that no one has named a cave
or portion of a cave after Tom.

Perhaps it might be appropriate to name some feature of Ft. Stanton's Snowy
River after Tom.  It may be Snowy River but it is also a river of milk ...
and where else would you expect to see Tom.

Bob Buecher


___
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
___
This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET

[SWR] Meador Remembered

[Carl Kunath]

Actually, there was a portion of the Guadalupe Room extension at CCNP that 
was known as the Meador Pincher.
This constriction was near the beginning of the route and had to be enlarged 
to allow Tom to pass.

I'm not sure if the name was official enough to make it onto the maps.

===Carl Kunath

-Original Message- 
From: Bob Buecher

Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 12:56 AM
To: Pete Lindsley ; Jim Evatt
Cc: Southwestern Region
Subject: Re: [SWR] Remembrance Disappointed

Jim,
Thanks for remembering Tom!

I must say that I have always been disappointed that no one has named a cave
or portion of a cave after Tom.

Perhaps it might be appropriate to name some feature of Ft. Stanton's Snowy
River after Tom.  It may be Snowy River but it is also a river of milk ...
and where else would you expect to see Tom.

Bob Buecher


___
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
___
This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET

[Texascavers] Phantom Lake Cave

[Carl Kunath]

There is considerable exciting news about Phantom Lake Cave these days.  Here 
is the best pictorial site I have seen thus far:

http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/phantomcave2013/phantom2013.html

There is much more background information in the caving literature.  The most 
accessible is probably page 214 in the 1994 NSS Convention Guide Book where 
there is a description and map showing the relationship of several other small 
caves nearby. 

In addition, there is a selection of pictures and a description of some 1990s 
diving activities on pages 298-300 of 50 YEARS OF TEXAS CAVING.

Looks like we are in for some exciting cave news in Jeff Davis County.

===Carl Kunath

[Texascavers] Phantom Lake Cave

[Carl Kunath]

There is considerable exciting news about Phantom Lake Cave these days.  Here 
is the best pictorial site I have seen thus far:

http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/phantomcave2013/phantom2013.html

There is much more background information in the caving literature.  The most 
accessible is probably page 214 in the 1994 NSS Convention Guide Book where 
there is a description and map showing the relationship of several other small 
caves nearby. 

In addition, there is a selection of pictures and a description of some 1990s 
diving activities on pages 298-300 of 50 YEARS OF TEXAS CAVING.

Looks like we are in for some exciting cave news in Jeff Davis County.

===Carl Kunath

[Texascavers] Phantom Lake Cave

[Carl Kunath]

There is considerable exciting news about Phantom Lake Cave these days.  Here 
is the best pictorial site I have seen thus far:

http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/phantomcave2013/phantom2013.html

There is much more background information in the caving literature.  The most 
accessible is probably page 214 in the 1994 NSS Convention Guide Book where 
there is a description and map showing the relationship of several other small 
caves nearby. 

In addition, there is a selection of pictures and a description of some 1990s 
diving activities on pages 298-300 of 50 YEARS OF TEXAS CAVING.

Looks like we are in for some exciting cave news in Jeff Davis County.

===Carl Kunath

[Texascavers] Re: Phantom Cave

[Carl Kunath]

If you would like to learn a bit more about the earlier history of Phantom Lake 
Cave (and lots of other cave diving activity in Texas), check it out on pages 
298-300 in 50 YEARS of TEXAS CAVING.

===Carl Kunath

From: dirt...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:25 PM
To: Cave Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] Phantom Cave

Phantom Cave, the water source for Balmorehea State Park, West Texas

 

This was called to my attention by David Locklear (who apparently is no longer 
corresponding on Tx Caver) via Pete Lindsley and the SW Cavers.

 

Ever since I first moved to the Big Bend in 1967, I have been fascinated by 
this cave, both because of my interest in groundwater geology and in caves.

 

This is a beautiful web site documenting the January 2013 exploration.  It was 
explored by hard-core cave divers last week, and is now the deepest underwater 
cave in the U.S.A., and the 2nd deepest cave in Texas at 462 feet deep.

 

http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/phantomcave2013/phantom2013.html

 

I have never gotten into cave diving, however, and my own explorations of 
Phantom Cave got me wet and muddy, but not underwater!

 

DirtDoc

[Texascavers] Re: Phantom Cave

[Carl Kunath]

If you would like to learn a bit more about the earlier history of Phantom Lake 
Cave (and lots of other cave diving activity in Texas), check it out on pages 
298-300 in 50 YEARS of TEXAS CAVING.

===Carl Kunath

From: dirt...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:25 PM
To: Cave Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] Phantom Cave

Phantom Cave, the water source for Balmorehea State Park, West Texas

 

This was called to my attention by David Locklear (who apparently is no longer 
corresponding on Tx Caver) via Pete Lindsley and the SW Cavers.

 

Ever since I first moved to the Big Bend in 1967, I have been fascinated by 
this cave, both because of my interest in groundwater geology and in caves.

 

This is a beautiful web site documenting the January 2013 exploration.  It was 
explored by hard-core cave divers last week, and is now the deepest underwater 
cave in the U.S.A., and the 2nd deepest cave in Texas at 462 feet deep.

 

http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/phantomcave2013/phantom2013.html

 

I have never gotten into cave diving, however, and my own explorations of 
Phantom Cave got me wet and muddy, but not underwater!

 

DirtDoc

[Texascavers] Re: Phantom Cave

[Carl Kunath]

If you would like to learn a bit more about the earlier history of Phantom Lake 
Cave (and lots of other cave diving activity in Texas), check it out on pages 
298-300 in 50 YEARS of TEXAS CAVING.

===Carl Kunath

From: dirt...@comcast.net 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:25 PM
To: Cave Texas 
Subject: [Texascavers] Phantom Cave

Phantom Cave, the water source for Balmorehea State Park, West Texas

 

This was called to my attention by David Locklear (who apparently is no longer 
corresponding on Tx Caver) via Pete Lindsley and the SW Cavers.

 

Ever since I first moved to the Big Bend in 1967, I have been fascinated by 
this cave, both because of my interest in groundwater geology and in caves.

 

This is a beautiful web site documenting the January 2013 exploration.  It was 
explored by hard-core cave divers last week, and is now the deepest underwater 
cave in the U.S.A., and the 2nd deepest cave in Texas at 462 feet deep.

 

http://www.admfoundation.org/projects/phantomcave2013/phantom2013.html

 

I have never gotten into cave diving, however, and my own explorations of 
Phantom Cave got me wet and muddy, but not underwater!

 

DirtDoc

[Texascavers] 50 YEARS Special Offer

[Carl Kunath]

 Special Offer 



50 Years of Texas Caving



From this moment until midnight on the 21st December 2012, 50 Years of Texas 
Caving (AKA The Encyclopedia of Texas Caving) can be yours for only $40.  
That's right, $40 shipped via media mail to your location anywhere in the 50 
States.



Note:  In case there has been a slight miscalculation and the world will 
actually end at some later date, the sale will automatically be extended 
through the end of the month.



If you already have this impressive volume, you are to be congratulated.  If 
you have been in a cave these past few years and are now slapping your face and 
saying, Man!  How could I have let that slip!  Now is your chance.  How about 
a copy for your friends and relatives who often roll their eyes and ask, Why 
on Earth do you go into those dark, nasty places? (Mind you, they should be 
referencing caves and not your favorite bars.) 



As a bonus, this is a huge book weighing nearly five pounds and is therefore 
useful as a zombie-swatter in case you are without silver bullets, wooden 
stakes, LAWS rockets, etc. when that fateful moment arrives.



Send your check to:



Carl Kunath

50 Years of Texas Caving

3720 Ransom Road

San Angelo, TX  76903



For additional information and sneak previews of certain portions, visit:



http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/50_Years/50_Years.html

[Texascavers] 50 YEARS Special Offer

[Carl Kunath]

 Special Offer 



50 Years of Texas Caving



From this moment until midnight on the 21st December 2012, 50 Years of Texas 
Caving (AKA The Encyclopedia of Texas Caving) can be yours for only $40.  
That's right, $40 shipped via media mail to your location anywhere in the 50 
States.



Note:  In case there has been a slight miscalculation and the world will 
actually end at some later date, the sale will automatically be extended 
through the end of the month.



If you already have this impressive volume, you are to be congratulated.  If 
you have been in a cave these past few years and are now slapping your face and 
saying, Man!  How could I have let that slip!  Now is your chance.  How about 
a copy for your friends and relatives who often roll their eyes and ask, Why 
on Earth do you go into those dark, nasty places? (Mind you, they should be 
referencing caves and not your favorite bars.) 



As a bonus, this is a huge book weighing nearly five pounds and is therefore 
useful as a zombie-swatter in case you are without silver bullets, wooden 
stakes, LAWS rockets, etc. when that fateful moment arrives.



Send your check to:



Carl Kunath

50 Years of Texas Caving

3720 Ransom Road

San Angelo, TX  76903



For additional information and sneak previews of certain portions, visit:



http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/50_Years/50_Years.html

[Texascavers] 50 YEARS Special Offer

[Carl Kunath]

 Special Offer 



50 Years of Texas Caving



From this moment until midnight on the 21st December 2012, 50 Years of Texas 
Caving (AKA The Encyclopedia of Texas Caving) can be yours for only $40.  
That's right, $40 shipped via media mail to your location anywhere in the 50 
States.



Note:  In case there has been a slight miscalculation and the world will 
actually end at some later date, the sale will automatically be extended 
through the end of the month.



If you already have this impressive volume, you are to be congratulated.  If 
you have been in a cave these past few years and are now slapping your face and 
saying, Man!  How could I have let that slip!  Now is your chance.  How about 
a copy for your friends and relatives who often roll their eyes and ask, Why 
on Earth do you go into those dark, nasty places? (Mind you, they should be 
referencing caves and not your favorite bars.) 



As a bonus, this is a huge book weighing nearly five pounds and is therefore 
useful as a zombie-swatter in case you are without silver bullets, wooden 
stakes, LAWS rockets, etc. when that fateful moment arrives.



Send your check to:



Carl Kunath

50 Years of Texas Caving

3720 Ransom Road

San Angelo, TX  76903



For additional information and sneak previews of certain portions, visit:



http://pages.suddenlink.net/carl-kunath/50_Years/50_Years.html

[Texascavers] The current TEXAS CAVER

[Carl Kunath]

Congratulations to Jill Orr and to the staff and contributors of the current 
Texas Caver!

Beyond the worthwhile content, it’s a very nice layout.  The “large enough to 
bind” margins, uniform column widths, text standoff, and careful proofreading 
are noted and appreciated. 

Thanks for a great issue and please keep up the good work!

===Carl Kunath