Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico (Skinner Lee via Texascavers)

[R D Milhollin via Texascavers]

Gastón Santos sounds like a pretty interesting dude. Here is the Spanish Wiki 
for him:
Gastón Santos - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
  
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   |

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Gastón Santos - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre
   |   |

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  |

 

RD Milhollin
  From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
 To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
 Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 12:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico (Skinner Lee via Texascavers)
   
Gaston Santos father was the Gov. of SLP and owned the ranch across the street 
from the hotel in Tamuin. We had his permission to cave but had to extra 
careful because he raised Toros for the corrida. He also had student protestors 
shot in SLP and was fired.Gaston Jr was a bull fighter and a pal of Foxey and a 
UT grad. 
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:46 AM, via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> 
wrote:

Now we are getting somewhere!  Aside from the Zetas, etc, why is the place so 
unpopulated? Bad dirt? Wretched vegetation? Thorn scrub never stopped a Mexican 
or a cow, and neither does cloud forest. Are these mountains older than the 
Sierra Madre Oriental? Different orogeny? Subsequent up igneous oozing? Salt 
dome? Nascent volcano? These are reputed to be "sky island" mountains but they 
seem too low and insufficiently isolated for that to be the case from a 
biogeographical perspective. Has anyone seen any cute little rattlesnakes 
there? Any other weird endemism? And why is Zacaton so deep? Is the whole area 
subsiding or is sulphuric acid rising up from Hell?  After Trump takes office 
will it be possible to apply to either the Zetas or the Gulf cartel for 
political asylum? If so how can they be reached? Sleaze In a message dated 
1/16/2017 12:07:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, texascavers@texascavers.com 
writes:
 There is, or was remnant cloud forest there. 
 On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Lee H. Skinner via Texascavers 
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
 
  On 1/15/2017 10:00 AM, Bill Mixon via Texascavers wrote:
 
That valley El Picharo is certainly a curious feature. I wonder if it is an old 
caldera. Whole region looks virtually uninhabited, which might (or might not) 
make it a place for people up to no good to hang out. Surroundings seems to 
have well-developed surface drainage. -- Mixon

 I wonder if it could be an old meteor crater? 
 Lee

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 Charlie Loving

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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico (Skinner Lee via Texascavers)

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

Gaston Santos father was the Gov. of SLP and owned the ranch across the
street from the hotel in Tamuin. We had his permission to cave but had to
extra careful because he raised Toros for the corrida. He also had student
protestors shot in SLP and was fired.
Gaston Jr was a bull fighter and a pal of Foxey and a UT grad.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:46 AM, via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Now we are getting somewhere!
>
> Aside from the Zetas, etc, why is the place so unpopulated? Bad dirt?
> Wretched vegetation? Thorn scrub never stopped a Mexican or a cow, and
> neither does cloud forest.
>
> Are these mountains older than the Sierra Madre Oriental? Different
> orogeny? Subsequent up igneous oozing? Salt dome? Nascent volcano?
>
> These are reputed to be "sky island" mountains but they seem too low and
> insufficiently isolated for that to be the case from a biogeographical
> perspective. Has anyone seen any cute little rattlesnakes there? Any other
> weird endemism?
>
> And why is Zacaton so deep? Is the whole area subsiding or is sulphuric
> acid rising up from Hell?
>
> After Trump takes office will it be possible to apply to either the Zetas
> or the Gulf cartel for political asylum? If so how can they be reached?
>
> Sleaze
>
> In a message dated 1/16/2017 12:07:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> texascavers@texascavers.com writes:
>
> There is, or was remnant cloud forest there.
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Lee H. Skinner via Texascavers <
> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/15/2017 10:00 AM, Bill Mixon via Texascavers wrote:
>>
>> That valley El Picharo is certainly a curious feature. I wonder if it is an 
>> old caldera. Whole region looks virtually uninhabited, which might (or might 
>> not) make it a place for people up to no good to hang out. Surroundings 
>> seems to have well-developed surface drainage. -- Mixon
>>
>>
>> I wonder if it could be an old meteor crater?
>>
>>
>> Lee
>>
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>> xascav...@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
>
>
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>


-- 
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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico (Skinner Lee via Texascavers)

[via Texascavers]

Now we are getting somewhere! 
 
Aside from the Zetas, etc, why is the place so unpopulated?  Bad dirt? 
Wretched vegetation? Thorn scrub never stopped a Mexican or a cow, and  neither 
does cloud forest.
 
Are these mountains older than the Sierra Madre Oriental?  Different 
orogeny? Subsequent up igneous oozing? Salt dome? Nascent  volcano?
 
These are reputed to be "sky island" mountains but they seem  too low and 
insufficiently isolated for that to be the case from a  biogeographical 
perspective. Has anyone seen any cute little rattlesnakes there?  Any other 
weird 
endemism?
 
And why is Zacaton so deep? Is the whole area subsiding or is  sulphuric 
acid rising up from Hell? 
 
After Trump takes office will it be possible to apply to  either the Zetas 
or the Gulf cartel for political asylum? If so how can they be  reached?
 
Sleaze
 
 
In a message dated 1/16/2017 12:07:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
texascavers@texascavers.com writes:

There is, or was remnant cloud forest there.

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Lee H. Skinner via  Texascavers 
 wrote:


On 1/15/2017 10:00 AM, Bill  Mixon via Texascavers wrote:


That valley El Picharo is certainly a curious feature. I wonder if it is an 
old caldera. Whole region looks virtually uninhabited, which might (or 
might not) make it a place for people up to no good to hang out. Surroundings 
seems to have well-developed surface drainage. -- Mixon


I wonder if it could be an old meteor crater? 

Lee


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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico (Skinner Lee via Texascavers)

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

There is, or was remnant cloud forest there.

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Lee H. Skinner via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> On 1/15/2017 10:00 AM, Bill Mixon via Texascavers wrote:
>
> That valley El Picharo is certainly a curious feature. I wonder if it is an 
> old caldera. Whole region looks virtually uninhabited, which might (or might 
> not) make it a place for people up to no good to hang out. Surroundings seems 
> to have well-developed surface drainage. -- Mixon
>
>
> I wonder if it could be an old meteor crater?
>
>
> Lee
>
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>
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

Bill Johnson, Dennis Sustare,myself and a few others explored Cuveacillas
near there.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 9:54 PM, via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> Watch out. The Gulf Cartel is still considered a big threat in
> Tamaulipas.
>  Mixon Bill via Texascavers  wrote:
> > From Association for Mexican Cave Studies Newsletter vol 4, pp. 55-56
> report on trip by a number of French cavers led by Bill Russell (OCR of
> scan will have errors):
>
> > Le 10 au soir, nous etablissons Ie campement
> > pres du Rio de Jaumave dans la Sierra de Tamaulipas. Le 11 est notre
> premiere journee d'exploration
> > au Mexique. Du Rancho Picacho aenviron 30 km de Ciudad Victoria, un
> berger nous
> > guide dans la canon de Fraile. Deux petites grottes sont explorees et
> topographiees: la Cueva
> > de Fraile et la Cueva del Canon de Fraile. Dans la soir~e,
> reconnaissance des S6tanos de Altes
> > Cumbres pres de la highway a 25 km de Ciudad Victoria. Le lendemain, un
> groupe continue
> > l'exploration et la topographie des S6tanos de Altes Cumbres nO 1 et nO
> 2. Un autre groupe
> > reconnait dans la Sierra, a une heure de marche du Rancho Picacho des
> gouffres sans importance.
> > Dans la soiree, une pointe rapide est effectuee a Hoya Verde, a 9 km de
> la highway.
>
> There is a map of a cave at http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/0327.pdf.
>
> I found that text by looking at the index to the volume on the AMCS web
> site at mexicancaves.org. Get familiar with the resources there. -- Mixon
>
> 
> Nature is a hanging judge.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> (unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org
>
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-- 
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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico (Skinner Lee via Texascavers)

[Lee H. Skinner via Texascavers]

On 1/15/2017 10:00 AM, Bill Mixon via Texascavers wrote:

That valley El Picharo is certainly a curious feature. I wonder if it is an old 
caldera. Whole region looks virtually uninhabited, which might (or might not) 
make it a place for people up to no good to hang out. Surroundings seems to 
have well-developed surface drainage. -- Mixon


I wonder if it could be an old meteor crater?


Lee

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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[Evatt via Texascavers]

This message is probably from one of them. There is no personal identifier in 
the message.

Evatt

-Original Message- 
From: via Texascavers 
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:54 PM 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico 

Watch out. The Gulf Cartel is still considered a big threat in Tamaulipas.
 Mixon Bill via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: 
> From Association for Mexican Cave Studies Newsletter vol 4, pp. 55-56 report 
> on trip by a number of French cavers led by Bill Russell (OCR of scan will 
> have errors):

> Le 10 au soir, nous etablissons Ie campement
> pres du Rio de Jaumave dans la Sierra de Tamaulipas. Le 11 est notre premiere 
> journee d'exploration
> au Mexique. Du Rancho Picacho aenviron 30 km de Ciudad Victoria, un berger 
> nous
> guide dans la canon de Fraile. Deux petites grottes sont explorees et 
> topographiees: la Cueva
> de Fraile et la Cueva del Canon de Fraile. Dans la soir~e, reconnaissance des 
> S6tanos de Altes
> Cumbres pres de la highway a 25 km de Ciudad Victoria. Le lendemain, un 
> groupe continue
> l'exploration et la topographie des S6tanos de Altes Cumbres nO 1 et nO 2. Un 
> autre groupe
> reconnait dans la Sierra, a une heure de marche du Rancho Picacho des 
> gouffres sans importance.
> Dans la soiree, une pointe rapide est effectuee a Hoya Verde, a 9 km de la 
> highway.

There is a map of a cave at http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/0327.pdf.

I found that text by looking at the index to the volume on the AMCS web site at 
mexicancaves.org. Get familiar with the resources there. -- Mixon


Nature is a hanging judge.

You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[David via Texascavers]

Since everybody is all excited about Mexico, all of the sudden,  I thought
this would be a good time to bring up the tiny-iddy-bitty fued going on
between the Trump administration and the Pen~a administration.

What impact do you think this new tension could have on the safety of
tourist in the backcountry, and possible backlash from Mexico ?

Everybody in the U.S.A. knows that there will not be any giant wall like in
China. It is just a metaphor for stopping
illegal immigration by whatever means is most practical, and not just
illegal Mexicans, but those pesky Venezuelans pretending to be Cubans,
( which most likely numbers in the 10,000+ ).People seem to forget how
many refugees we took in from Hurricane Mitch.We ain't evil.   We just
want to protect our children and our grandchildren from out-of-control
immigration.

I am concerned this tension will have a terrible impact on U.S. tourist
fearing to go to Mexico. And that Mexico might raise the prices that
Gringos pay for things that I enjoy doing down there for.I can usually
get Mexican prices, on most things I purchase there, but I don't shop in
the tourist zones.

I had a nice visit to Reynosa about a month ago, and look forward to going
back very soon, as soon as my financial situation improves.

And before anybody even tries to call me a racist, I have been helping
Mexicans for 30+ years, and have put up with my intolerable estranged-wife
for 26 of those years.I am extremely upset with her at the moment, but
I have to give her credit for saving our daughter's life last week, as I
would have slept through it, had my wife not started screaming in terror.

There are a lot of things I absolutely love about Mexico: The swimming
holes, waterfalls, underground waterfalls, underground rivers, caves,
Sauteed Huastecan Langostinos from the Rio Frio, just Huastecan food in
general, the lovely ladies who seem to like me, the mountain landscapes,
the stars at night in the remote areas of the Sierra Madres, and the
hiking, and backpacking, and archaeology, etc..

What I can't stand, is the Virgin of Guadalupe and how all the "sicarios"
have a giant tattoo of her on their back, and the influence of the Pope on
their politics, not recognizing over-population is the number one
problem.. And the general fear of places in cities, ( but the same is
true or worse in parts of Houston. )   And I detest the way Mexicans drive
down there, and the condition of most of the roadways.   And those corrupt
"transitos," taking my money. I have enjoyed caving with every Mexican
caver, I have ever been on a caving trip with, and wish I had made a better
effort to record their names, but I did try on the ones that most impressed
me.I want to go caving there again, and with Mexican cavers.

On a different note, does anyone know a female in Ciudad Victoria named
Blanca Estela Zapata Garcia.I met her at Mexpeleo in Sierra Alvarez,
and we tried to stay in contact about once a year over the last 20+
years. She hurt her hand very badly about 2 months ago, and I have not
heard from her since.It sounded like she needed emergency help, and I
would have helped her if I could have.

David Locklear
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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[Jerry via Texascavers]

Cuchillo de Picacho is indeed an igneous intrusive that is dated at 28.8 Ma. 
There is an associated mineralization region surrounding it that has been 
mined. It's located in the SW part of the Sierra de Tamaulipas that does have 
known caves as others have pointed out. One of the more famous caves is Poza 
Zacaton which has had much written about it.
 

 Jerry Atkinson.
jerryat...@aol.com

 

-Original Message-
From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
To: texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 14, 2017 8:44 am
Subject: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico



While cruising around on Google earth the Weazel noticed an interesting looking 
mountain range that I think is in Tamaulipas and is east of the main range. The 
peak (actually a valley) that piqued my interest is called El Picacho and is 
located at 23.397613, -98.563586 about 45 miles SE of Cuidad Victoria. The 
entire area is very green and undeveloped. Whoever lives in El Picacho probably 
doesn't get many visitors. Can any of y'all Texicans tell me anything about 
this mountain range? What is it called? Is it karst? (doesn't look like that to 
me) What can explain the strange cirque like valley? Is it certain death to go 
there?
 
Sleaze

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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[via Texascavers]

Watch out. The Gulf Cartel is still considered a big threat in Tamaulipas.
 Mixon Bill via Texascavers  wrote: 
> From Association for Mexican Cave Studies Newsletter vol 4, pp. 55-56 report 
> on trip by a number of French cavers led by Bill Russell (OCR of scan will 
> have errors):

> Le 10 au soir, nous etablissons Ie campement
> pres du Rio de Jaumave dans la Sierra de Tamaulipas. Le 11 est notre premiere 
> journee d'exploration
> au Mexique. Du Rancho Picacho aenviron 30 km de Ciudad Victoria, un berger 
> nous
> guide dans la canon de Fraile. Deux petites grottes sont explorees et 
> topographiees: la Cueva
> de Fraile et la Cueva del Canon de Fraile. Dans la soir~e, reconnaissance des 
> S6tanos de Altes
> Cumbres pres de la highway a 25 km de Ciudad Victoria. Le lendemain, un 
> groupe continue
> l'exploration et la topographie des S6tanos de Altes Cumbres nO 1 et nO 2. Un 
> autre groupe
> reconnait dans la Sierra, a une heure de marche du Rancho Picacho des 
> gouffres sans importance.
> Dans la soiree, une pointe rapide est effectuee a Hoya Verde, a 9 km de la 
> highway.

There is a map of a cave at http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/0327.pdf.

I found that text by looking at the index to the volume on the AMCS web site at 
mexicancaves.org. Get familiar with the resources there. -- Mixon


Nature is a hanging judge.

You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org

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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[Mixon Bill via Texascavers]

From Association for Mexican Cave Studies Newsletter vol 4, pp. 55-56 report on 
trip by a number of French cavers led by Bill Russell (OCR of scan will have 
errors):

> Le 10 au soir, nous etablissons Ie campement
> pres du Rio de Jaumave dans la Sierra de Tamaulipas. Le 11 est notre premiere 
> journee d'exploration
> au Mexique. Du Rancho Picacho aenviron 30 km de Ciudad Victoria, un berger 
> nous
> guide dans la canon de Fraile. Deux petites grottes sont explorees et 
> topographiees: la Cueva
> de Fraile et la Cueva del Canon de Fraile. Dans la soir~e, reconnaissance des 
> S6tanos de Altes
> Cumbres pres de la highway a 25 km de Ciudad Victoria. Le lendemain, un 
> groupe continue
> l'exploration et la topographie des S6tanos de Altes Cumbres nO 1 et nO 2. Un 
> autre groupe
> reconnait dans la Sierra, a une heure de marche du Rancho Picacho des 
> gouffres sans importance.
> Dans la soiree, une pointe rapide est effectuee a Hoya Verde, a 9 km de la 
> highway.

There is a map of a cave at http://www.mexicancaves.org/maps/0327.pdf.

I found that text by looking at the index to the volume on the AMCS web site at 
mexicancaves.org. Get familiar with the resources there. -- Mixon


Nature is a hanging judge.

You may "reply" to the address this message
(unless it's a TexasCavers list post)
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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[via Texascavers]

AND NOW HE’S ROLLIN’ DOWN THE MOUNTAIN 
GOING FAST, FAST, FAST
AND IF  HE BLOWS IT THIS ONE’S GONNA BE HIS LAST
RUN TO ACAPUCO TO TURN THE GOLDEN  KEYS
HENRY KEEP THE BRAKES ON FOR THIS CORNER IF YOU PLEASE!
 
But what is the name of the mountain range? What is the jungle like?  
Rainforest or scrub? And why is it that almost nobody lives there?
 
SW
 
 
In a message dated 1/14/2017 11:10:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
texascavers@texascavers.com writes:

Went there in the sixties. Land Rovered up to some caves near  there. 
Terrible road, steep and narly. Found some interesting caves in the  jungle. 
Had 
a real thrill coming down with the brakes over heating. Made it  back to 
Tamuin and Valles and mapped Arroyo and a cave across the road form  the hot 
springs at Tamuin.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 9:44 AM, via Texascavers 
 wrote:


While cruising around on Google earth the Weazel noticed an interesting  
looking mountain range that I think is in Tamaulipas and is east of the main  
range. The peak (actually a valley) that piqued my interest is called El  
Picacho and is located at 23.397613, -98.563586 about 45 miles SE of Cuidad  
Victoria. The entire area is very green and undeveloped. Whoever lives in El  
Picacho probably doesn't get many visitors. Can any of y'all Texicans tell  
me anything about this mountain range? What is it called? Is it karst?  
(doesn't look like that to me) What can explain the strange cirque like  
valley? Is it certain death to go there?
 
Sleaze


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-- 
Charlie  Loving



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Re: [Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[Charles Loving via Texascavers]

Went there in the sixties. Land Rovered up to some caves near there.
Terrible road, steep and narly. Found some interesting caves in the jungle.
Had a real thrill coming down with the brakes over heating. Made it back to
Tamuin and Valles and mapped Arroyo and a cave across the road form the hot
springs at Tamuin.

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 9:44 AM, via Texascavers <
texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

> While cruising around on Google earth the Weazel noticed an interesting
> looking mountain range that I think is in Tamaulipas and is east of the
> main range. The peak (actually a valley) that piqued my interest is called
> El Picacho and is located at 23.397613, -98.563586 about 45 miles SE of
> Cuidad Victoria. The entire area is very green and undeveloped. Whoever
> lives in El Picacho probably doesn't get many visitors. Can any of y'all
> Texicans tell me anything about this mountain range? What is it called? Is
> it karst? (doesn't look like that to me) What can explain the strange
> cirque like valley? Is it certain death to go there?
>
> Sleaze
>
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> texascavers@texascavers.com/
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>


-- 
Charlie Loving
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[Texascavers] Green place in Mexico

[via Texascavers]

While cruising around on Google earth the Weazel noticed an interesting  
looking mountain range that I think is in Tamaulipas and is east of the main  
range. The peak (actually a valley) that piqued my interest is called El 
Picacho  and is located at 23.397613, -98.563586 about 45 miles SE of Cuidad 
Victoria.  The entire area is very green and undeveloped. Whoever lives in El 
Picacho  probably doesn't get many visitors. Can any of y'all Texicans tell 
me anything  about this mountain range? What is it called? Is it karst? 
(doesn't look like  that to me) What can explain the strange cirque like 
valley? 
Is it certain death  to go there?
 
Sleaze___
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