Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 10:22:40 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:

>
> Hm -dunno about that comment, but the Imgur-licensed app for iOS does 
> exactly what we're talking about here seamlessly, although you do have to 
> ignore all the other crap on the home screen, which is targeted to their 
> mainstream user base, NOT the niche that you and i represent,
>

I'll have to give it a try. I guess if it works, I don't understand why 
there would even be a 3rd part app. But I digress.
 

> So long as the .html file (presuming a single-file wiki) need never embed 
> an image file, but is instead just rendering it from online storage (and/or 
> from browser localStorage, in the TWOF scenario?), that is the magic that 
> needs enabling here, seems to me.
>
>
Although that would be nice, it would be OK if the image temporarily 
resided in the TW.  
Thanks!

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[ludwa6]

On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 5:39:58 PM UTC+1 Mark S. wrote:

> ...Does the imgur app allow you to take pictures? 
>

Yessir: you click the '+' button at top of screen, select your preferred 
upload option -from camera (button takes you there), else from your Imgur 
library or system file-picker- and then you select either "Public" or 
"Hidden" and upload. Easy as falling off a log!  /w
 

> The only imgur-sponsored app I could find on playstore promised "Imgur: 
> Find funny GIFs, memes & watch viral videos". That's not my interest. 
>

Not mine neither! But that is indeed how the app is described and marketed, 
and that's how they make their money.  In this attention (i.e. ad-funded) 
economy, there is apparently a very significant market of people who spend 
significant time watching "funny GIFs, memes & viral videos," and that's 
what pays the freight on this image hosting.  /w
 

> Maybe the app does more, but it needs to say so in the description. It 
> goes on for four paragraphs about all the material you'll see. A comment in 
> the reviews says that the ability to post has been broken for a year.
>

Hm -dunno about that comment, but the Imgur-licensed app for iOS does 
exactly what we're talking about here seamlessly, although you do have to 
ignore all the other crap on the home screen, which is targeted to their 
mainstream user base, NOT the niche that you and i represent, Mark. We're 
definitely not alone in this -Imgur has been for a good few years already 
the goto app for many DIY Maker-types that have a story to tell via series 
of annotated images (for example check out the Reddit boards that are that 
way inclined)- but this is not the user base that Imgur gets paid to 
attract, i suppose, so i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to change 
their positioning in App Store or Google Play.  /w
 

> Yes, I'm sure you can use the web based imgur to copy addresses and then 
> copy/paste them into a TW. But it's a several step process and definitely 
> not convenient on a small screen. 
>

> The ideal solution would allow you to take an imported image in TW and 
> directly post it to your own imgur account, and then create the 
> corresponding image tiddler.
>

So long as the .html file (presuming a single-file wiki) need never embed 
an image file, but is instead just rendering it from online storage (and/or 
from browser localStorage, in the TWOF scenario?), that is the magic that 
needs enabling here, seems to me.

/walt

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 8:21:19 AM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:

> Can't say much as to how this works technically, but as a naive user of 
> both Imgur and TWOF, i can affirm that:
>
>1. I use Imgur both on web *and* mobile, to read and post both public 
>*and* hidden images and albums, and the authentication is perfectly 
>seamless; enter id & pwd once, and it will remember your codes as long as 
>you like (maybe there's a default logout, but i'm in often enough, it 
> seems 
>never have to re-authenticate). Can't speak to the Android issue that 
> @Mark 
>raised, but the iOS app works great for me.
>2. 
>
> Does the imgur app allow you to take pictures? The only imgur-sponsored 
app I could find on playstore promised "Imgur: Find funny GIFs, memes & 
watch viral videos". That's not my interest. Maybe the app does more, but 
it needs to say so in the description. It goes on for four paragraphs about 
all the material you'll see. A comment in the reviews says that the ability 
to post has been broken for a year.

The 3rd party app I did find could load your pictures to imgur but did not 
use your own imgur account, so there's no telling when your post will be 
trimmed.

Yes, I'm sure you can use the web based imgur to copy addresses and then 
copy/paste them into a TW. But it's a several step process and definitely 
not convenient on a small screen.

The ideal solution would allow you to take an imported image in TW and 
directly post it to your own imgur account, and then create the 
corresponding image tiddler.


 

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[ludwa6]

Can't say much as to how this works technically, but as a naive user of 
both Imgur and TWOF, i can affirm that:

   1. I use Imgur both on web *and* mobile, to read and post both public 
   *and* hidden images and albums, and the authentication is perfectly 
   seamless; enter id & pwd once, and it will remember your codes as long as 
   you like (maybe there's a default logout, but i'm in often enough, it seems 
   never have to re-authenticate). Can't speak to the Android issue that @Mark 
   raised, but the iOS app works great for me.
   2. As for TiddlyWiki-On-Fission: this too seemed a perfectly seamless 
   experience, when i set up this instance 
    back in March; 
   haven't done much with it since then, as it still carries the 
   not-ready-for-production-use disclaimer, but even now... The way this tech 
   connects your browser's localStorage to the IPFS cloud in such a way that 
   you can totally forget about where the files reside just feels to like 
   magic of the right kind.  Like: this is the way it *should* work, 
   everywhere.

Yet, there being "no free lunch," i guess there's gotta be a host in there 
somewhere -and so, w/r/t/ images at least, in terms of both technical and 
end-user values, TWOF & Imgur look to me like being pretty well-aligned.  
 By far the lion's share of image-enhanced tiddlers i have created are 
pulling from Imgur-hosted links already, so if i could upload and/or 
download to there from within TW itself, that would be awesome!  

Is this consistent w/ the vision for TW-on-Fission, i wonder?

/walt


On Wednesday, August 4, 2021 at 2:50:55 PM UTC+1 Mark S. wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 7:48:10 PM UTC-7 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> Saq,
>
>
>> There remains a barrier to my understanding because most of the details 
>> seem to make sense to "those in the know." 
>>
>>
> Yes! Atom. Electron. Fission. IPFS.  It's taken for granted that everyone 
> knows what this means and what the implications are. 
>
> In terms of single-file solutions, exporting via the zip plugin seems to 
> be the only practicable solution. On Android, a Tiddloid-like app could 
> upload to imgur or some place. However I wonder about the authentication. I 
> downloaded an Android app for uploading to that has thousands of users and 
> was surprised that there was no way to connect to your personal imgur 
> account. This means all posts will be public, none can go to your paid 
> account, and that you can't manage them over time.   
>  
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Tuesday, August 3, 2021 at 7:48:10 PM UTC-7 TW Tones wrote:

> Saq,
>
> There remains a barrier to my understanding because most of the details 
> seem to make sense to "those in the know." 
>
>
Yes! Atom. Electron. Fission. IPFS.  It's taken for granted that everyone 
knows what this means and what the implications are. 

In terms of single-file solutions, exporting via the zip plugin seems to be 
the only practicable solution. On Android, a Tiddloid-like app could upload 
to imgur or some place. However I wonder about the authentication. I 
downloaded an Android app for uploading to that has thousands of users and 
was surprised that there was no way to connect to your personal imgur 
account. This means all posts will be public, none can go to your paid 
account, and that you can't manage them over time.   
 

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[TW Tones]

Saq,

I would be keen to support project with a donation but I must say I am not 
sure exactly what they aim to achieve and how what is built will work, even 
if I would have the skills to make use of the final result. What does 
fission offer in the end etc...

This is made more complex because to achieve what is outlined I could read 
between the line and imagine for example tiddlywiki could save a file after 
generating it, allowing feedback, submissions and shared TiddlyWiki etc... 
but I am not sure if this will be the case.

There remains a barrier to my understanding because most of the details 
seem to make sense to "those in the know." 

Regards
Tones


On Wednesday, 4 August 2021 at 06:42:17 UTC+10 Saq Imtiaz wrote:

> Great Ideas so far. From a developer standpoint, I can recommend the Imgur 
>> API for integration. Not only does it give flexibility and a high number of 
>> photo uploads per day, but it is also relatively easy to use and combine 
>> with existing technologies (ie tiddlywiki in this case.) 
>> I would love to build a JS plug-in or tool for TW with this, if any of 
>> you are interested. 
>>
>>>
>>>
> As Joshua mentioned, there is a file uploads plugin in development that 
> supports different uploader modules to support storage backends:
>
> https://github.com/saqimtiaz/tiddlywiki-on-fission/tree/main/upload-files-wiki/plugins/file-uploads
>
>  Writing an Imgur uploader module would indeed be interesting.  The tricky 
> bits to figure out would be CORS and authentication. If that is something 
> you are interested in working on, I would be happy to discuss further. 
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[Saq Imtiaz]

>
> Great Ideas so far. From a developer standpoint, I can recommend the Imgur 
> API for integration. Not only does it give flexibility and a high number of 
> photo uploads per day, but it is also relatively easy to use and combine 
> with existing technologies (ie tiddlywiki in this case.) 
> I would love to build a JS plug-in or tool for TW with this, if any of you 
> are interested. 
>
>>
>>
As Joshua mentioned, there is a file uploads plugin in development that 
supports different uploader modules to support storage backends:
https://github.com/saqimtiaz/tiddlywiki-on-fission/tree/main/upload-files-wiki/plugins/file-uploads

 Writing an Imgur uploader module would indeed be interesting.  The tricky 
bits to figure out would be CORS and authentication. If that is something 
you are interested in working on, I would be happy to discuss further. 

Regards,
Saq

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[makiaea]

i don't use this myself but it is possible on ios using quine2 (may require 
the "scriptable" app)

one caveat is i can't get the image to show changes straight away in 
tiddlywiki without saving/reloading the file in quine2. maybe someone has 
an appropriate suggestion? i tried soren's link in a recent discussion for 
refresh but didn't try eric's solution in the same thread

ok, so how it works:

you can make a tiddlywiki macro to insert the following based on the file 
location of the photo (or use a pythonista script etc., you can use 
anything that's appropriate e.g. gladys or another clipboard manager on ios)

show photo using (this is a relative path on the ios filesysten, relative 
to the open tiddlywiki) :

[img[photo/20181028 maki know abcd 2.jpg]]

link to edit this photo (assuming it lives in iCloud, using full path):

[ext[shareddocuments:///private/var/mobile/Library/Mobile%20Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs/books/00045/20201205makiaea-anwiki/photo/20181028%20maki%20know%20abcd%202.jpg]]

(opens in ios using files, can use apple pencil but only additively, 
remember to save using "done", note the conversion of spaces, which is why 
i would use pythonista as i know how to work the conversion, you could also 
use shortcuts as in the macstories source linked below, or just manually 
replace the spaces to start with, which is what i did for this example)

again, note that i had to save and reload tiddlywiki in my setup (quine2) 
after editing the photo to show the updated photo within tiddlywiki, if you 
have a different setup ymmv.

warmest wishes, maki


source: 
https://www.macstories.net/ios/fs-bookmarks-a-shortcut-to-reopen-files-and-folders-directly-in-the-files-app/

the shiraz plugin has some nice macros to format images

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 1:59:17 AM UTC+1 joshua@gmail.com wrote:

> There is work in progress to handle a "file upload plugin" that can be 
> used with various backends (Node.js TW, and TiddlyWiki-onFission being the 
> first 2).
>
> Discussion thread here: 
> https://talk.fission.codes/t/tiddlywiki-file-upload-plugin-webnative-ipfs-funded/1926
>
> Best,
> Joshua Fontany
>
> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 1:38:06 PM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:
>
>> +1 the Imgur idea- my goto site for image hosting.  Easy upload via 
>> mobile, easy to link your choice of output formats… And a RESTful API 
>> that should be easy enough to integrate, right? 
>>  If it’s beta testers you want, count me in!
>>
>> /walt
>>
>> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 7:39:42 PM UTC+1 flanc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Great Ideas so far. From a developer standpoint, I can recommend the 
>>> Imgur API for integration. Not only does it give flexibility and a high 
>>> number of photo uploads per day, but it is also relatively easy to use and 
>>> combine with existing technologies (ie tiddlywiki in this case.) 
>>> I would love to build a JS plug-in or tool for TW with this, if any of 
>>> you are interested. 
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 9:45 AM 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
>>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 TW isn't really suited for dealing with photos on a regular basis.

 The problem is that even a single high-res photo will bog down your TW 
 experience, especially saving and loading. Which means you need to 
 externalized your images. Externalizing your images means exporting your 
 images to some place accessible by TW, and then re-importing as URLs. 
 There 
 isn't any smooth, automated way to do all this. I've been looking and 
 experimenting for awhile, but with only mixed results. The ideal solution 
 wouldn't require a user to do more than click on an "archive" button to 
 convert a tiddler to an external image. And I guess there would need to be 
 a reverse button, since AFAIK you can only draw on an embedded image. 

 On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 5:00:16 AM UTC-7 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> VERY interesting post.
>
> TW is well suited for it with a bit of tweaking ... 
>
> Much of the issue is how you have your OS setup??? I do screen capture 
> vis OS on Android, Chromebook and PC desktop no problem.
> And then import.
>
> WHERE TW gets interesting to me in the OP is engaging PEN input into 
> the editor or into image tiddlers after capture.
> ALL I do is scale the box full screen --- as for pen accuracy, you 
> need a decent sized canvas.
>
> Ask if you want particulars.
>
> Best
> TT 
>
> On Saturday, 31 July 2021 at 11:58:05 UTC+2 e.arnol...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I'm interested in using TW5 for my daily note taking. I very often 
>> takes notes with images. Sometimes the image is the only note.
>> Picture taking should be well integrated.
>>
>> Is TW5 well suited for this task?
>> Are there plugins for quick picture taking?
>> How well would performance be with several 

Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[Joshua Fontany]

There is work in progress to handle a "file upload plugin" that can be used 
with various backends (Node.js TW, and TiddlyWiki-onFission being the first 
2).

Discussion thread 
here: 
https://talk.fission.codes/t/tiddlywiki-file-upload-plugin-webnative-ipfs-funded/1926

Best,
Joshua Fontany

On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 1:38:06 PM UTC-7 ludwa6 wrote:

> +1 the Imgur idea- my goto site for image hosting.  Easy upload via 
> mobile, easy to link your choice of output formats… And a RESTful API 
> that should be easy enough to integrate, right? 
>  If it’s beta testers you want, count me in!
>
> /walt
>
> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 7:39:42 PM UTC+1 flanc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Great Ideas so far. From a developer standpoint, I can recommend the 
>> Imgur API for integration. Not only does it give flexibility and a high 
>> number of photo uploads per day, but it is also relatively easy to use and 
>> combine with existing technologies (ie tiddlywiki in this case.) 
>> I would love to build a JS plug-in or tool for TW with this, if any of 
>> you are interested. 
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 9:45 AM 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
>> tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> TW isn't really suited for dealing with photos on a regular basis.
>>>
>>> The problem is that even a single high-res photo will bog down your TW 
>>> experience, especially saving and loading. Which means you need to 
>>> externalized your images. Externalizing your images means exporting your 
>>> images to some place accessible by TW, and then re-importing as URLs. There 
>>> isn't any smooth, automated way to do all this. I've been looking and 
>>> experimenting for awhile, but with only mixed results. The ideal solution 
>>> wouldn't require a user to do more than click on an "archive" button to 
>>> convert a tiddler to an external image. And I guess there would need to be 
>>> a reverse button, since AFAIK you can only draw on an embedded image. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 5:00:16 AM UTC-7 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>>
 VERY interesting post.

 TW is well suited for it with a bit of tweaking ... 

 Much of the issue is how you have your OS setup??? I do screen capture 
 vis OS on Android, Chromebook and PC desktop no problem.
 And then import.

 WHERE TW gets interesting to me in the OP is engaging PEN input into 
 the editor or into image tiddlers after capture.
 ALL I do is scale the box full screen --- as for pen accuracy, you need 
 a decent sized canvas.

 Ask if you want particulars.

 Best
 TT 

 On Saturday, 31 July 2021 at 11:58:05 UTC+2 e.arnol...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I'm interested in using TW5 for my daily note taking. I very often 
> takes notes with images. Sometimes the image is the only note.
> Picture taking should be well integrated.
>
> Is TW5 well suited for this task?
> Are there plugins for quick picture taking?
> How well would performance be with several hundred pictures?
>
> Thank you for your answer in advance.
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/56d23046-449c-4db2-905b-1bd2188e62d0n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[ludwa6]

+1 the Imgur idea- my goto site for image hosting.  Easy upload via mobile, 
easy to link your choice of output formats… And a RESTful API 
that should be easy enough to integrate, right?  If 
it’s beta testers you want, count me in!

/walt

On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 7:39:42 PM UTC+1 flanc...@gmail.com wrote:

> Great Ideas so far. From a developer standpoint, I can recommend the Imgur 
> API for integration. Not only does it give flexibility and a high number of 
> photo uploads per day, but it is also relatively easy to use and combine 
> with existing technologies (ie tiddlywiki in this case.) 
> I would love to build a JS plug-in or tool for TW with this, if any of you 
> are interested. 
>
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 9:45 AM 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
> tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> TW isn't really suited for dealing with photos on a regular basis.
>>
>> The problem is that even a single high-res photo will bog down your TW 
>> experience, especially saving and loading. Which means you need to 
>> externalized your images. Externalizing your images means exporting your 
>> images to some place accessible by TW, and then re-importing as URLs. There 
>> isn't any smooth, automated way to do all this. I've been looking and 
>> experimenting for awhile, but with only mixed results. The ideal solution 
>> wouldn't require a user to do more than click on an "archive" button to 
>> convert a tiddler to an external image. And I guess there would need to be 
>> a reverse button, since AFAIK you can only draw on an embedded image. 
>>
>> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 5:00:16 AM UTC-7 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>>> VERY interesting post.
>>>
>>> TW is well suited for it with a bit of tweaking ... 
>>>
>>> Much of the issue is how you have your OS setup??? I do screen capture 
>>> vis OS on Android, Chromebook and PC desktop no problem.
>>> And then import.
>>>
>>> WHERE TW gets interesting to me in the OP is engaging PEN input into the 
>>> editor or into image tiddlers after capture.
>>> ALL I do is scale the box full screen --- as for pen accuracy, you need 
>>> a decent sized canvas.
>>>
>>> Ask if you want particulars.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> TT 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 31 July 2021 at 11:58:05 UTC+2 e.arnol...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hi all

 I'm interested in using TW5 for my daily note taking. I very often 
 takes notes with images. Sometimes the image is the only note.
 Picture taking should be well integrated.

 Is TW5 well suited for this task?
 Are there plugins for quick picture taking?
 How well would performance be with several hundred pictures?

 Thank you for your answer in advance.

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/56d23046-449c-4db2-905b-1bd2188e62d0n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Picture based tiddlers

[Finn Lancaster]

Great Ideas so far. From a developer standpoint, I can recommend the Imgur
API for integration. Not only does it give flexibility and a high number of
photo uploads per day, but it is also relatively easy to use and combine
with existing technologies (ie tiddlywiki in this case.)
I would love to build a JS plug-in or tool for TW with this, if any of you
are interested.

On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 9:45 AM 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> TW isn't really suited for dealing with photos on a regular basis.
>
> The problem is that even a single high-res photo will bog down your TW
> experience, especially saving and loading. Which means you need to
> externalized your images. Externalizing your images means exporting your
> images to some place accessible by TW, and then re-importing as URLs. There
> isn't any smooth, automated way to do all this. I've been looking and
> experimenting for awhile, but with only mixed results. The ideal solution
> wouldn't require a user to do more than click on an "archive" button to
> convert a tiddler to an external image. And I guess there would need to be
> a reverse button, since AFAIK you can only draw on an embedded image.
>
> On Saturday, July 31, 2021 at 5:00:16 AM UTC-7 TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>> VERY interesting post.
>>
>> TW is well suited for it with a bit of tweaking ...
>>
>> Much of the issue is how you have your OS setup??? I do screen capture
>> vis OS on Android, Chromebook and PC desktop no problem.
>> And then import.
>>
>> WHERE TW gets interesting to me in the OP is engaging PEN input into the
>> editor or into image tiddlers after capture.
>> ALL I do is scale the box full screen --- as for pen accuracy, you need a
>> decent sized canvas.
>>
>> Ask if you want particulars.
>>
>> Best
>> TT
>>
>> On Saturday, 31 July 2021 at 11:58:05 UTC+2 e.arnol...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> I'm interested in using TW5 for my daily note taking. I very often takes
>>> notes with images. Sometimes the image is the only note.
>>> Picture taking should be well integrated.
>>>
>>> Is TW5 well suited for this task?
>>> Are there plugins for quick picture taking?
>>> How well would performance be with several hundred pictures?
>>>
>>> Thank you for your answer in advance.
>>>
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