Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Jim, I have to say that I agree with you totally!! I feel that if anyone is going to do IVF that they should only create the ones that they are going to use. I also feel that if the only way for me to be healed is through embryonic stem cells then I never will be here on earth! I don't think that I could live with the thoughts of that. Thanks for all that you do for us on the list! - Original Message - From: Jim Lubin To: Lawrence King ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I know I am in the minority in my believes, but I do not believe in IVF that creates embryos to begin with. If these embryos were not being created to then there would be no so called leftover embryos. Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following: The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows: SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ''human embryo or embryos'' includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. Guess he should have READ the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law... I followed the link on http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/ to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf. At 05:25 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
[TMIC] Blood
Anyone wanting to donate blood, send it my way. I'm tired of running the neighborhood at night loking for victims. **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219799606x1201361003/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153745%3B34689725%3Bo)
[TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion
I want to take a stand in the discussion regarding the use of?human embryos for research or healing.? I started following the healing possibilities?before I ever heard of TM, because my husband has been diabetic for twenty years. My husband's stand was that he would not use any method that involved human embryo's even if it means he will die of the complications of diabetis.? Good for him!? (Hard for me.) Then along came TM and I now read of stem cell research with the hopes of us both benefitting from the outcome.? However, I?take my own stand - I do not want to use any method that consists of the use of embryonic stems cells and I regret the use of human embryos of any stage being used for research. I visited Jude yesterday and she asked me what TMIC was?discussing.? When I told her it was regarding the use of different stages of embryos for?research and healing?she said she would allow her body to die before she would accept any treatment that used human embryo's.??We discussed that we have many extra adult stem cells that we would like to donate to research.? I do not want my tax dollars to support embryonic research or baby abortions of any kind. I also quit donating blood after TM, however, I've signed for organ donation and figure it will be a doctor's decision whether or not to accept. Patti - Michigan one of God's creation
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Sure I would consider treatment from non hESC sources. As for the funding act that was signed into law. No funds in this act (which funds everything in the government between now through Sept 30, 2009) may be used for embryos for research purposes or research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death (which is what happens when stem cells are removed from an embryo) It then defines the term human embryo as any organism that is derived by fertilization or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. (the egg and sperm are human gametes). That would exclude the so called leftover embryos from federal funded research. So just 2 days after having a big ceremonial signing of his executive order to allow federal funding he signs a bill that restricts the funding once again, at least through the end of the fiscal year. At 08:18 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: Jim, I do respect your beliefs and your extensive knowledge regarding stem cell research. I'm guessing you would consider treatment derived from adult lines but might decline so called embryonic lines. I'm sure we'd all be relieved if adult stem cells turned out to be the best solution after all. As for the Omnibus Appropriations act I admit my BFA degree doesn't help me understand the legal language used in such bills. Could you interpret it in common language? Mindy the Artist On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Jim Lubin wrote: I know I am in the minority in my believes, but I do not believe in IVF that creates embryos to begin with. If these embryos were not being created to then there would be no so called leftover embryos. Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following: The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows: SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ''human embryo or embryos'' includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. Guess he should have READ the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law... I followed the link on http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPublicReview/http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/ to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdfhttp://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf. At 05:25 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Jim Lubin mailto:jlu...@eskimo.comjlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org Jim Lubin jlu...@makoa.org Home Page: http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Sure I would consider treatment from non hESC sources. As for the funding act that was signed into law. No funds in this act (which funds everything in the government between now through Sept 30, 2009) may be used for embryos for research purposes or research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death (which is what happens when stem cells are removed from an embryo) It then defines the term human embryo as any organism that is derived by fertilization or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. (the egg and sperm are human gametes). That would exclude the so called leftover embryos from federal funded research. So just 2 days after having a big ceremonial signing of his executive order to allow federal funding he signs a bill that restricts the funding once again, at least through the end of the fiscal year. At 08:18 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: Jim, I do respect your beliefs and your extensive knowledge regarding stem cell research. I'm guessing you would consider treatment derived from adult lines but might decline so called embryonic lines. I'm sure we'd all be relieved if adult stem cells turned out to be the best solution after all. As for the Omnibus Appropriations act I admit my BFA degree doesn't help me understand the legal language used in such bills. Could you interpret it in common language? Mindy the Artist On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Jim Lubin wrote: I know I am in the minority in my believes, but I do not believe in IVF that creates embryos to begin with. If these embryos were not being created to then there would be no so called leftover embryos. Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following: The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows: SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used for(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ''human embryo or embryos'' includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. Guess he should have READ the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law... I followed the link on http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPublicReview/http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/ to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdfhttp://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf. At 05:25 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Jim Lubin mailto:jlu...@eskimo.comjlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] Hi Everyone
Hello Janice. Welcome, I just read your post. I am Ella in Ohio, I'm 49 and got TM in 2000. Have any questions just ask. Have a nice day.Ella **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under $10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0002)
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Here it is. Worth watching. Stem Cells and Neuroregeneration The Future Douglas A. Kerr, MD, PhD Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25453169972889015 http://www.myelitis.org/rnds2008/stem_cels_MN_and_GRP_2008.pdf At 09:27 AM 3/25/2009, jrushton wrote: Thanks, Debbie!! If you don't watch/listen to anything else from that Symposium, you should truly look for that part! It is SO important because we have ALL been led astray and he makes it so easy to understand and he is the expert along with his staff!!! He is also one of the main ones trying so hard to get this passed in order to save those like you and I from living with our disabilities. Had it been available at our onset, we may have had a chance to be one of the 'lucky' ones and had this simple procedure done. I wish there was a way to show just that one section of the Symp... Is there, Debbie? It is so misunderstood that there will be those that could be helped but will refuse only because of the misunderstanding. Jeanne in Dayton ---Original Message--- From: mailto:dca...@earthlink.netDeborah Nord Capen Date: 3/25/2009 11:10:57 AM To: mailto:gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.netgbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net; mailto:westg...@interlog.comWestgold; mailto:adis...@yahoo.comAmanda Diskey; mailto:tmic-list@eskimo.comtmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at http://www.myelitis.org/events.htmhttp://www.myelitis.org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion
They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? - Original Message - From: ptpatti200...@aol.com To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion I want to take a stand in the discussion regarding the use of human embryos for research or healing. I started following the healing possibilities before I ever heard of TM, because my husband has been diabetic for twenty years. My husband's stand was that he would not use any method that involved human embryo's even if it means he will die of the complications of diabetis. Good for him! (Hard for me.) Then along came TM and I now read of stem cell research with the hopes of us both benefitting from the outcome. However, I take my own stand - I do not want to use any method that consists of the use of embryonic stems cells and I regret the use of human embryos of any stage being used for research. I visited Jude yesterday and she asked me what TMIC was discussing. When I told her it was regarding the use of different stages of embryos for research and healing she said she would allow her body to die before she would accept any treatment that used human embryo's. We discussed that we have many extra adult stem cells that we would like to donate to research. I do not want my tax dollars to support embryonic research or baby abortions of any kind. I also quit donating blood after TM, however, I've signed for organ donation and figure it will be a doctor's decision whether or not to accept. Patti - Michigan one of God's creation -- Need a job? Find employment help in your area. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.283 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09 07:12:00
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Thank you, Jim..Jeanne ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 3/26/2009 12:21:40 PM To: jrushton; Deborah Nord Capen; tmic Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Here it is. Worth watching. Stem Cells and Neuroregeneration The Future Douglas A. Kerr, MD, PhD Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25453169972889015 http://www.myelitis.org/rnds2008/stem_cels_MN_and_GRP_2008.pdf At 09:27 AM 3/25/2009, jrushton wrote: Thanks, Debbie!! If you don't watch/listen to anything else from that Symposium, you should truly look for that part! It is SO important because we have ALL been led astray and he makes it so easy to understand and he is the expert along with his staff!!! He is also one of the main ones trying so hard to get this passed in order to save those like you and I from living with our disabilities. Had it been available at our onset, we may have had a chance to be one of the 'lucky' ones and had this simple procedure done. I wish there was a way to show just that one section of the Symp... Is there, Debbie? It is so misunderstood that there will be those that could be helped but will refuse only because of the misunderstanding. Jeanne in Dayton ---Original Message--- From: Deborah Nord Capen Date: 3/25/2009 11:10:57 AM To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net ; Westgold; Amanda Diskey; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at http://www.myelitis org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org newimage.jpg
RE: [TMIC] Embryonic Stem Cell Discussion
I would have to agree 100%. Tracey L. Black Certified Insurance Service Representative Hockley O'Donnell Insurance Agency Phone- 717-334-6741, x 29 Fax-717-334-3414 My hours: 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Thank you for providing information to us. Please be aware that no coverage is bound and no change to your insurance program is confirmed until verified by a licensed agent during regular business hours. If you do not hear from us within 1 business day, please re-contact us in case your information has not been retained From: Westgold [mailto:westg...@interlog.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:24 PM To: ptpatti200...@aol.com; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? - Original Message - From: ptpatti200...@aol.com To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion I want to take a stand in the discussion regarding the use of human embryos for research or healing. I started following the healing possibilities before I ever heard of TM, because my husband has been diabetic for twenty years. My husband's stand was that he would not use any method that involved human embryo's even if it means he will die of the complications of diabetis. Good for him! (Hard for me.) Then along came TM and I now read of stem cell research with the hopes of us both benefitting from the outcome. However, I take my own stand - I do not want to use any method that consists of the use of embryonic stems cells and I regret the use of human embryos of any stage being used for research. I visited Jude yesterday and she asked me what TMIC was discussing. When I told her it was regarding the use of different stages of embryos for research and healing she said she would allow her body to die before she would accept any treatment that used human embryo's. We discussed that we have many extra adult stem cells that we would like to donate to research. I do not want my tax dollars to support embryonic research or baby abortions of any kind. I also quit donating blood after TM, however, I've signed for organ donation and figure it will be a doctor's decision whether or not to accept. Patti - Michigan one of God's creation Need a job? Find employment help in your area http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlweu syelp0002 . No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.283 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09 07:12:00
Re: [TMIC] Embryonic Stem Cell Discussion
I'm sure there are many couples out there that can't have their own children that would love to have these instead of them being thrown away. - Original Message - From: Trudy Ogilvie To: Tracey L. Black Cc: Westgold ; ptpatti200...@aol.com ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] Embryonic Stem Cell Discussion Patti, I'm with you 100% also To put it mildly we have become the quintessential throw-away society. Trudy On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Tracey L. Black tracey.bl...@hnoins.com wrote: I would have to agree 100%. Tracey L. Black Certified Insurance Service Representative Hockley O'Donnell Insurance Agency Phone- 717-334-6741, x 29 Fax-717-334-3414 My hours: 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Thank you for providing information to us. Please be aware that no coverage is bound and no change to your insurance program is confirmed until verified by a licensed agent during regular business hours. If you do not hear from us within 1 business day, please re-contact us in case your information has not been retained From: Westgold [mailto:westg...@interlog.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:24 PM To: ptpatti200...@aol.com; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? - Original Message - From: ptpatti200...@aol.com To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion I want to take a stand in the discussion regarding the use of human embryos for research or healing. I started following the healing possibilities before I ever heard of TM, because my husband has been diabetic for twenty years. My husband's stand was that he would not use any method that involved human embryo's even if it means he will die of the complications of diabetis. Good for him! (Hard for me.) Then along came TM and I now read of stem cell research with the hopes of us both benefitting from the outcome. However, I take my own stand - I do not want to use any method that consists of the use of embryonic stems cells and I regret the use of human embryos of any stage being used for research. I visited Jude yesterday and she asked me what TMIC was discussing. When I told her it was regarding the use of different stages of embryos for research and healing she said she would allow her body to die before she would accept any treatment that used human embryo's. We discussed that we have many extra adult stem cells that we would like to donate to research. I do not want my tax dollars to support embryonic research or baby abortions of any kind. I also quit donating blood after TM, however, I've signed for organ donation and figure it will be a doctor's decision whether or not to accept. Patti - Michigan one of God's creation -- Need a job? Find employment help in your area. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.283 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09 07:12:00
Re: [TMIC] Embryonic Stem Cell Discussion
This is Janice. Count me in with NOT using embrionic stem cells.I thought there was a lot of work done with stem cells from after birth, etc. We don't have to go to embrionic cells. Am I wrong? - Original Message - From: Trudy Ogilvie To: Tracey L. Black Cc: Westgold ; ptpatti200...@aol.com ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] Embryonic Stem Cell Discussion Patti, I'm with you 100% also To put it mildly we have become the quintessential throw-away society. Trudy On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Tracey L. Black tracey.bl...@hnoins.com wrote: I would have to agree 100%. Tracey L. Black Certified Insurance Service Representative Hockley O'Donnell Insurance Agency Phone- 717-334-6741, x 29 Fax-717-334-3414 My hours: 9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Thank you for providing information to us. Please be aware that no coverage is bound and no change to your insurance program is confirmed until verified by a licensed agent during regular business hours. If you do not hear from us within 1 business day, please re-contact us in case your information has not been retained From: Westgold [mailto:westg...@interlog.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:24 PM To: ptpatti200...@aol.com; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? - Original Message - From: ptpatti200...@aol.com To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion I want to take a stand in the discussion regarding the use of human embryos for research or healing. I started following the healing possibilities before I ever heard of TM, because my husband has been diabetic for twenty years. My husband's stand was that he would not use any method that involved human embryo's even if it means he will die of the complications of diabetis. Good for him! (Hard for me.) Then along came TM and I now read of stem cell research with the hopes of us both benefitting from the outcome. However, I take my own stand - I do not want to use any method that consists of the use of embryonic stems cells and I regret the use of human embryos of any stage being used for research. I visited Jude yesterday and she asked me what TMIC was discussing. When I told her it was regarding the use of different stages of embryos for research and healing she said she would allow her body to die before she would accept any treatment that used human embryo's. We discussed that we have many extra adult stem cells that we would like to donate to research. I do not want my tax dollars to support embryonic research or baby abortions of any kind. I also quit donating blood after TM, however, I've signed for organ donation and figure it will be a doctor's decision whether or not to accept. Patti - Michigan one of God's creation -- Need a job? Find employment help in your area. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.283 / Virus Database: 270.11.29/2024 - Release Date: 03/26/09 07:12:00
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
I agree with Gary! I was under the impression that research was still being done, just not embryonic. Wouldn't it be tremendous if in a few years we could all throw away our canes, walkers, wheelchairs, meds - anything associated with TM! Janice - Original Message - From: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net To: Westgold ; Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Our former president, George W. Bush, so direspectfully referred to on this list as dumdum, was simply against the use of our tax money for embryonic stem cell research in consideration for those opposed, on moral grounds, to the use of aborted fetuses. Stem cell research was not stopped. It has widely been proclaimed (even on this list) that adult stem cell research has actually been more successful than embryonic cell research. http://www.stemcellresearchfacts.com/ What should be of concern is the attitude, manifest in the new presidential administration, of disregard for sanctity of life. Surely such thinking in our governmental leadership would tend to provoke questioning as to compassion for TM'ers, especially those in adult years. Rather an irony-- a claim to compassion to help the suffering yet being quick to reinstate tax money for research which gives a boost to the abortion industry! I am not, by far, as learned as I would like to be on this subject, but just wish to include the opposite side to those who seem to hear that fetal embryonic research is the only answer to finding relief for those suffering from conditions such as ours (and, of course, worse). Gary in Michigan - Original Message - From: Westgold To: Amanda Diskey ; tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell Hi -- there have been many success stories all over the world with stem cells, I am so glad our new president decided to let the researchers get back to it in a big way. You can google stem calls + various diseases, or stem cells + success, etc, and you'll get a lot of stuff. There were twin girls who went to China for stem cells a couple years ago, and they were helped tremendously. You used to be able to find their stories by googling stem cells + twins + Toronto -- try that. I personally believe that now that the research is back under way full steam, we will be seeing amazing things happening in just a year or two. Too bad those 8 years of research were lost because of dumdum. - Original Message - From: Amanda Diskey To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: [TMIC] stem cell I found a hospital in Panama City, Panama affiliated with Johns Hopkins, and they say they can treat me with stem cells. The lady I spoke with says they have treated one person with TM and got good results. The cost is $30,000. What do you all think? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.283 / Virus Database: 270.11.26/2020 - Release Date: 03/24/09 09:19:00
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?), and signing
It seems to me that ALL bills should be read prior to signing, but that's just me. I was always told not to sign anything that I haven't read. I will admit to not signing all documents in total, but I have skimmed over them. Just my 2 cents worth. Barbara A In a message dated 3/25/2009 7:28:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jlu...@eskimo.com writes: I know I am in the minority in my believes, but I do not believe in IVF that creates embryos to begin with. If these embryos were not being created to then there would be no so called leftover embryos. Are you aware that President Obama signed H.R. 1105, the “Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009,” on March 11th (2 days after signing the executive order to lift the ban on federal funding of embryonic stem cells) that contained the following: The text of Section 509 of the Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009, reads as follows: SEC. 509. (a) None of the funds made available in this Act may be used forshy;(1) the creation of a human embryo or embryos for research purposes; or (2) research in which a human embryo or embryos are destroyed, discarded, or knowingly subjected to risk of injury or death greater than that allowed for research on fetuses in utero under 45 CFR 46.204(b) and section 498(b) of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 289g(b)). (b) For purposes of this section, the term ‘‘human embryo or embryos’’ includes any organism, not protected as a human subject under 45 CFR 46 as of the date of the enactment of this Act, that is derived by fertilization, parthenogenesis, cloning, or any other means from one or more human gametes or human diploid cells. Guess he should have READ the “Omnibus Appropriations Act, 2009 before signing it into law... I followed the link on _http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPu blicReview/_ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/FY2009OmnibusAppropriationsActPublicReview/) to see if it was true, sure enough, it's in there _http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf_ (http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/2009_Con_Bill_DivF.pdf) If you want to read it yourself, pg 128, lines 9 - 24. there are 2 pages inserted so it is page 130 of the pdf. At 05:25 PM 3/25/2009, Lawrence King wrote: whether you consider them blastocysts or babies, the couples who conceived them have already made the decision that they will never be born and have a meaningful purpose outside the petri dish. I truly believe the parents should have the right to decide the fate regarding the use of their unused fertilized egg's stem cells as well. Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com _http://makoa.org/jim_ (http://makoa.org/jim) disAbility Resources: _http://www.makoa.org _ (http://www.makoa.org/) **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219799606x1201361003/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153745%3B34689725%3Bo)
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
This is a very personal decision and we all have to make it for ourselves when and if the time comes. It's good to have a discussion about this as different views are expressed and information is dispensed that others may not be aware of. I also know that there are many children in the foster care system and orphanages and are available for adoption if people would consider them if they really wanted a child, and not only a baby. Babies are harder to adopt, but so many children would love to have a stable home with loving parents. I'd love to be able to walk the way I did prior to TM. I know that if I could get back what I lost, I'd be a real happy camper. Hugs, Barbara A **Great Deals on Dell 15 Laptops - Starting at $479 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219799606x1201361003/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doub leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153745%3B34689725%3Bo)
[TMIC] What a great video!
Jim,
Thank you for the link to the video.
As a former fertility patient...My ex husband and I did fertility meds in
'99-2000 and of course they cannot put all of the cells they make inside of
you or you will end up like Octomom. They freeze them for a later date.
In my case we got divorced and who knows what happened to the cells. I wish
they could've benefitted someone whether it be another couple who wants a baby
or to help someone walk again.
However, most couples will usually choose to accept donated eggs OR donated
sperm. Usually one parent is a biological parent.
Jill
--- On Thu, 3/26/09, jrushton jrush...@columbiaenergyllc.com wrote:
From: jrushton jrush...@columbiaenergyllc.com
Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
To: Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com, tmic tmic-list@eskimo.com
Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 10:36 AM
#yiv1851665673 v\:* {
}
#yiv1851665673 v\:* {
}
Thank you, Jim..Jeanne
---Original Message---
From: Jim Lubin
Date: 3/26/2009 12:21:40 PM
To: jrushton; Deborah Nord Capen; tmic
Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Here it is. Worth watching.
Stem Cells and Neuroregeneration – The Future
Douglas A. Kerr, MD, PhD
Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25453169972889015
http://www.myelitis.org/rnds2008/stem_cels_MN_and_GRP_2008.pdf
At 09:27 AM 3/25/2009, jrushton wrote:
Thanks, Debbie!! If you don't watch/listen to anything else from that
Symposium, you should truly look for that part! It is SO important because we
have ALL been led astray and he makes it so easy to understand and he is the
expert along with his staff!!! He is also one of the main ones trying so hard
to get this passed in order to save those like you and I from living with our
disabilities. Had it been available at our onset, we may have had a chance to
be one of the 'lucky' ones and had this simple procedure done. I wish there
was a way to show just that one section of the Symp... Is there, Debbie? It
is so misunderstood that there will be those that could be helped but will
refuse only because of the misunderstanding. Jeanne in Dayton
---Original Message---
From: Deborah Nord Capen
Date: 3/25/2009 11:10:57 AM
To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net ; Westgold; Amanda Diskey;
tmic-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become
involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST
mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem
cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are
blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri
dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning
of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people
came out and attacked this research from the git-go.
If you view the talks from all of our symposia at
http://www.myelitis.org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on
stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this.
Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr
has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the
patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they
left the country to go back home.
Take care,
Debbie
Jim Lubin
jlu...@eskimo.com
http://makoa.org/jim
disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
Jim.I agree with you completely and I like your explanations for your position on using stem cells. My daughter saved the umbilical cord blood from my last grandson in hopes that it may be of some benefit from me or him if necessary. I do have feelings that haunt me regarding using these stem cells to help my situation. This is due to the fact that I am so tired of not standing or walking, dealing with constant bladder and bowel issues, and the 24/7 nerve pain that varies in intensity regardless of medication. I realize there are many who are worse than me with their TM. The reality for me is that if suddenly there was a myelin regeneration cocktail that was made from and could only be made from embryonic stem cells and I was hearing about success stories related to the treatment, I am not so sure I would be able to stick to my guns. The reality is that I might have to get in that line. I have three precious grandchildren and a whole neighborhood full of children that I have, for the most part, adopted as my own grandchildren. I have participated in numerous infant baptisms and I take my responsibnility toward all childen very seriously. I kind of relate it to the fox hole Christian logic. When the atheist has been pinned down from gun fire in his foxhole he just may be tempted to say a paryer or two. Just curious if you have had similar thoughts.Cody in Austin - Original Message - From: Jim Lubin To: jrushton ; Deborah Nord Capen ; tmic Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Here it is. Worth watching. Stem Cells and Neuroregeneration - The Future Douglas A. Kerr, MD, PhD Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25453169972889015 http://www.myelitis.org/rnds2008/stem_cels_MN_and_GRP_2008.pdf At 09:27 AM 3/25/2009, jrushton wrote: Thanks, Debbie!! If you don't watch/listen to anything else from that Symposium, you should truly look for that part! It is SO important because we have ALL been led astray and he makes it so easy to understand and he is the expert along with his staff!!! He is also one of the main ones trying so hard to get this passed in order to save those like you and I from living with our disabilities. Had it been available at our onset, we may have had a chance to be one of the 'lucky' ones and had this simple procedure done. I wish there was a way to show just that one section of the Symp... Is there, Debbie? It is so misunderstood that there will be those that could be helped but will refuse only because of the misunderstanding. Jeanne in Dayton ---Original Message--- From: Deborah Nord Capen Date: 3/25/2009 11:10:57 AM To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net ; Westgold; Amanda Diskey; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at http://www.myelitis.org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion
They are just going to throw those unused blastocysts away only because someone is making the choice to do so. After they are created they remain frozen indefinitely until a decision is made by someone to remove them from their frozen state. I've seen the argument be made that they are going to die anyway so why not use them to help others, such as organ donation. I started thing about that reasoning a few years ago. As someone who is only being kept alive by a ventilator breathing for me I began thinking that someone could decide that if I was taken off the ventilator I would die anyway so why not use my organs to better someone else's life. Someone might decide that my heart, my liver, my lungs would be better used by someone else who might be more important or more productive, less of a burden cost wise, to society. I am not an organ donor. Remember the Terri Schiavo case in 2005? It was a big topic on the vent-users list. Her husband claimed she was in a Persistent vegetative state, her family said she was not. The media kept saying they want to remove her from life support. She was not on life support, she had a feeding tube. Big difference. A ventilator is life support. Her feeding tube was removed and she was starved to death because nutrition was withheld. It was very scary to everyone who is on life support they way people were fighting to get her feeding tube removed. If people felt so strongly about her being removed what about us? I believe that human life begins at conception and that those blastocytes should be protected until natural death. Use them what they were created for or keep them frozen (i.e. on life support). I don't think these blastocytes should have been created in the first place, if a couple can't have a baby without intervention then it's not meant to be. That's just what I believe. Obviously it's legal so the world doesn't operate the way I believe. Jim At 10:24 AM 3/26/2009, Westgold wrote: They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] going to DC
Try to find the Albert Einstein memorial near the Vietnam Vets Memorial Constitution Ave. we wanted to get there but the bone chilling cold 9F. got the better of us and we gave up on both. It's a site most tourists miss and don't know about. and the museum of natural history is renovated and wonderful... you can see the hope diamond. I want to hear about it when you get back! On Mar 26, 2009, at 9:09 PM, ptpatti200...@aol.com wrote: Mindy the Artist Thanks Mindy I found the info on the tourmobile before we decided that I needed some sort of transport and I forgot about the wheelchair storage on the bus so that link was helpful. . It will be perfect. I found that it was the only bus through the cemetary - one of our desired stops. I know we are going to use their two-day pass and see all of those sights. Did you have a special spot that I might miis if I wasn't aware of it in advance? I'm taking all the advice I can get. Thanks Patti - Michigan -Original Message- From: Lawrence King we4king...@verizon.net To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Cc: Lawrence King we4king...@verizon.net Sent: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 2:38 pm Subject: Re: [TMIC] going to DC Hi Patti, We went to DC in Jan for my father-in-laws funeral at Arlington Natnl. Cemetery and decided it was now or never to show the kids DC. What ever your needs are I encourage you to take this tour bus: http://www.tourmobile.com/disability.phpand not the other ones. I believe it cost us $32 per adult a day and we could get on and off at will. I am walking wounded and would have been in agony if I had to walk from monument to monument. I gave you the disability page so you can discuss your needs with them. this is the only tour that has Natln. park service affiliation (and the monuments are a natnl. park) and be happy there are accommodations at all the monuments to allow full access regardless of your level of ability. So enjoy yourself and wear an Obama button (the workers will be friendlier) Mindy the Artist Jeanne What a story! You couldn't make that up if you tried and I think it's better (or worse) than anything I've seen on House. Your miracle is that you lived long enough to get to the right hospital and that they started you on steroids. Thanks for sharing the details. You brought up the subject of maneuverability and I need help dealing with it. I decided it was time to go to Washington DC - a long-time desire of my hubby and myself. I always use a cane and have a wheelchair that I loaned out a year ago, but could get back. I quit wearing my AFO after two years because my feet burn and I prefer to wear shoes that I can take off every time I sit down (even in public.) I looked pitiful sitting with my brace beside me letting my feet breathe. So, I will need to use a walker and/or be pushed in a wheelchair in Washington and am concerned about my hubby lifting the chair in and out of our car. I have looked at 3 wheeled walkers that would be easier to maneuver in crowds, 4 wheeled walkers of all kinds, a 4 wheeled that turns into a transport chair ($400), and just a simple transport chair itself A transport chair is a wheelchair for being pushed in, with (4) ten- inch wheels instead of the large wheels on the back for self- maneuvering. The transport chair ! is about 12 lbs. lighter than my wheelchair and would be easier to get into my small car. The 4 wheeled walker that turns into a wheelchair is $400 on-line. A transport wheelchair is $200 at Walmart. I can buy a 3-wheeled or a 4-wheeled walker for $50 each on Craigslist. What would YOU take to Washington DC? What will I need? How will I feel using one for the first time? I DON'T want to have to use any of them! I'm ANGRY! Patti - Michigan Need a job? Find employment help in your area. = Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion
Jim, I have even more respect for your view now that you have explained it in such a personal way. I haven't changed my own view but I love getting to wear the other persons moccasins (I'm Christian and my best friend is Buddhist). I'm thrilled at how well this discussion has gone (can we talk about race next... just kidding) Mindy the Artist On Mar 26, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Jim Lubin wrote: They are just going to throw those unused blastocysts away only because someone is making the choice to do so. After they are created they remain frozen indefinitely until a decision is made by someone to remove them from their frozen state. I've seen the argument be made that they are going to die anyway so why not use them to help others, such as organ donation. I started thing about that reasoning a few years ago. As someone who is only being kept alive by a ventilator breathing for me I began thinking that someone could decide that if I was taken off the ventilator I would die anyway so why not use my organs to better someone else's life. Someone might decide that my heart, my liver, my lungs would be better used by someone else who might be more important or more productive, less of a burden cost wise, to society. I am not an organ donor. Remember the Terri Schiavo case in 2005? It was a big topic on the vent-users list. Her husband claimed she was in a Persistent vegetative state, her family said she was not. The media kept saying they want to remove her from life support. She was not on life support, she had a feeding tube. Big difference. A ventilator is life support. Her feeding tube was removed and she was starved to death because nutrition was withheld. It was very scary to everyone who is on life support they way people were fighting to get her feeding tube removed. If people felt so strongly about her being removed what about us? I believe that human life begins at conception and that those blastocytes should be protected until natural death. Use them what they were created for or keep them frozen (i.e. on life support). I don't think these blastocytes should have been created in the first place, if a couple can't have a baby without intervention then it's not meant to be. That's just what I believe. Obviously it's legal so the world doesn't operate the way I believe. Jim At 10:24 AM 3/26/2009, Westgold wrote: They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org
Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion
Very well put, Mindy!! Jeanne ---Original Message--- From: Lawrence King Date: 3/26/2009 9:32:41 PM To: tmic-list@eskimo.com Cc: Lawrence King Subject: Re: [TMIC] Embrionic Stem Cell Discussion Jim, I have even more respect for your view now that you have explained it in such a personal way. I haven't changed my own view but I love getting to wear the other persons moccasins (I'm Christian and my best friend is Buddhist). I'm thrilled at how well this discussion has gone (can we talk about race next... just kidding) Mindy the Artist On Mar 26, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Jim Lubin wrote: They are just going to throw those unused blastocysts away only because someone is making the choice to do so. After they are created they remain frozen indefinitely until a decision is made by someone to remove them from their frozen state. I've seen the argument be made that they are going to die anyway so why not use them to help others, such as organ donation. I started thing about that reasoning a few years ago. As someone who is only being kept alive by a ventilator breathing for me I began thinking that someone could decide that if I was taken off the ventilator I would die anyway so why not use my organs to better someone else's life. Someone might decide that my heart, my liver, my lungs would be better used by someone else who might be more important or more productive, less of a burden cost wise, to society. I am not an organ donor. Remember the Terri Schiavo case in 2005? It was a big topic on the vent-users list. Her husband claimed she was in a Persistent vegetative state, her family said she was not. The media kept saying they want to remove her from life support. She was not on life support, she had a feeding tube. Big difference. A ventilator is life support. Her feeding tube was removed and she was starved to death because nutrition was withheld. It was very scary to everyone who is on life support they way people were fighting to get her feeding tube removed. If people felt so strongly about her being removed what about us? I believe that human life begins at conception and that those blastocytes should be protected until natural death. Use them what they were created for or keep them frozen (i.e. on life support). I don't think these blastocytes should have been created in the first place, if a couple can't have a baby without intervention then it's not meant to be. That's just what I believe. Obviously it's legal so the world doesn't operate the way I believe. Jim At 10:24 AM 3/26/2009, Westgold wrote: They just throw those unused blastocytes in the garbage, they end up in some medical waste dump somewhere. Would you rather than that, than see those cells being used to help cure a lot of horrible diseases? You say that you support organ donation -- isn't giving these blastocytes a chance to help save somoene's life similar to organ donation? Don't you think they would rather do some good with whatever life they have, rather than just be thrown in a dump? Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com http://makoa.org/jim disAbility Resources: http://www.makoa.org 11.jpg
Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?)
I don't understand, with what all I have read from all of these explanations of embryonic stem cells NOT being actually embryonic, why hasn't this been on the national news and in the newspapers, etc., that it is NOT embryonic?Wouldn't that put a stop to such a huge debate and we could get very serious about treating those with diseases that could be cured with these cells with no hesitancy? Why hasn't Dr. Kerr's info been put in front of our congress - they are the only ones that can do something about this - right? I hope this makes sense - it is late and I have taken my meds! janice - Original Message - From: Cody and Judy Kidwell To: TMIC ; Jim Lubin Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Jim.I agree with you completely and I like your explanations for your position on using stem cells. My daughter saved the umbilical cord blood from my last grandson in hopes that it may be of some benefit from me or him if necessary. I do have feelings that haunt me regarding using these stem cells to help my situation. This is due to the fact that I am so tired of not standing or walking, dealing with constant bladder and bowel issues, and the 24/7 nerve pain that varies in intensity regardless of medication. I realize there are many who are worse than me with their TM. The reality for me is that if suddenly there was a myelin regeneration cocktail that was made from and could only be made from embryonic stem cells and I was hearing about success stories related to the treatment, I am not so sure I would be able to stick to my guns. The reality is that I might have to get in that line. I have three precious grandchildren and a whole neighborhood full of children that I have, for the most part, adopted as my own grandchildren. I have participated in numerous infant baptisms and I take my responsibnility toward all childen very seriously. I kind of relate it to the fox hole Christian logic. When the atheist has been pinned down from gun fire in his foxhole he just may be tempted to say a paryer or two. Just curious if you have had similar thoughts.Cody in Austin - Original Message - From: Jim Lubin To: jrushton ; Deborah Nord Capen ; tmic Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) Here it is. Worth watching. Stem Cells and Neuroregeneration - The Future Douglas A. Kerr, MD, PhD Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-25453169972889015 http://www.myelitis.org/rnds2008/stem_cels_MN_and_GRP_2008.pdf At 09:27 AM 3/25/2009, jrushton wrote: Thanks, Debbie!! If you don't watch/listen to anything else from that Symposium, you should truly look for that part! It is SO important because we have ALL been led astray and he makes it so easy to understand and he is the expert along with his staff!!! He is also one of the main ones trying so hard to get this passed in order to save those like you and I from living with our disabilities. Had it been available at our onset, we may have had a chance to be one of the 'lucky' ones and had this simple procedure done. I wish there was a way to show just that one section of the Symp... Is there, Debbie? It is so misunderstood that there will be those that could be helped but will refuse only because of the misunderstanding. Jeanne in Dayton ---Original Message--- From: Deborah Nord Capen Date: 3/25/2009 11:10:57 AM To: gbthomas8...@sbcglobal.net ; Westgold; Amanda Diskey; tmic-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [TMIC] stem cell (OT?) I will make just a short statement regarding this, as I do not wish to become involved in a debate. Dr. Kerr has stated in all of his talks that the BIGGEST mistake in the very beginning was to even give it the name embryonic stem cells. They are NOT embryos. They are NOT aborted fetuses. They are blastocysts - only two cells that could not ever survive outside of a petri dish on their own. Because the scientists made this mistake in the beginning of giving it the name embryonic stem cell, all of the right-to-life people came out and attacked this research from the git-go. If you view the talks from all of our symposia at http://www.myelitis.org/events.htm and listen carefully to Dr. Kerr's talks on stem cell research, you will have better knowledge of this. Regarding the idea of going out of the country to receive treatments, Dr. Kerr has also discussed this. The research is there, but the follow-up on the patients is lacking, so they have no record of how the patients did AFTER they left the country to go back home. Take care, Debbie Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com
