Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
erland;567210 Wrote: > Or even better, make an applet for the Touch that does it and justify > that it has to be powered on, just to make sure everything else is off. Great idea :-) (still, it wouldn't justify it in my house :-) -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567207 Wrote: > My issue is that I can find much better places to save power than making > a device useless to me. If I had to power it down manually with a > switch every time I was done with it then I would never use it. > > Seriously things like a Toyota Prius most likely consume more power in > the off state than the Touch. Almost every modern car uses power when > it is off, and just because it is not plugged into your house grid does > not mean that is "free" power. > > Personally I would rather see devices like my microwave, oven, coffee > maker and such put more effort into NOT using power when off than they > do now over say my Touch. The Touch actually provides a feature by > using power, those other device provide what? A soft-touch switch and > a clock that I always have to reset when the power flickers, I can do > without the clock and soft-touch switch. I understand. And I'm not opting for a change that would limit your way of using it, I think, I'm only asking for a change that will let me use it differently. -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
I actively uses WOL so my server is off when I sleep . Or when I'm not at home. When I enter my apartment after a days work , I provoke WOL with my controller or any player close by, when I'm fiddled with my work clothes and bags the server is up and I have music, so the 24/7 server every one whines about don't have to run more than the time you are present as it can be wol'ed to start by any sb player. I wol from power off so it's not much that is running not even the PS fan . My apartment is small I sleep 1,5 meters from my server, so when I sleep lightly the "whirr crackle" noise when it boots wake me before the alarm sometimes , as I use random I snooze in anticipation on whats it's going to play when alarm goes off -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
erland;567209 Wrote: > You know, I could turn them off with one switch, the one on the main > fuse box in the apartment. Of course, that would also turn off the > fridge and freezer which would be a bit frustrating in the morning. > :-) > > And most important of all, if would turn off the server where all my > plugins and applets are hosted, so some people here would probably get > a bit upset :-) > > Maybe it's time make some use of the Sheevaplug and make it > automatically turn off everything softly when I go to sleep and > activate it again when the Radio alarm is triggered in the morning. :) That would also turn off my WATER which I am very certain would have my wife at my throat in no time. No water == no toilet, no shower, etc. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
erland;567209 Wrote:
>
> Maybe it's time make some use of the Sheevaplug and make it
> automatically turn off everything softly when I go to sleep and
> activate it again when the Radio alarm is triggered in the morning.
Or even better, make an applet for the Touch that does it and justify
that it has to be powered on, just to make sure everything else is off.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567199 Wrote:
> I know for myself I could not turn off every electric device in my house
> with 3 switches.
>
You know, I could turn them off with one switch, the one on the main
fuse box in the apartment. Of course, that would also turn off the
fridge and freezer which would be a bit frustrating in the morning.
:-)
And most important of all, if would turn off the server where all my
plugins and applets are hosted, so some people here would probably get
a bit upset :-)
Maybe it's time make some use of the Sheevaplug and make it
automatically turn off everything softly when I go to sleep and
activate it again when the Radio alarm is triggered in the morning.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
mdm;567204 Wrote: > Things like mircowaves, ovens, etc eventually self-organized into SkyNet > and a Judgement Day will come! Which may or may not happen - until it does I will respectfully consider it off-topic :-) -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567202 Wrote: > But it's true; we try to be very aware of power consumption here. It's like Green European championship - Who Save More :) -- mdm Touch(wireless/Tiny/1Tb LaCie) - CA DacMagic - MF A220 - Kelly Transducers KT3, MF A2CD, MF X-CAN, MF X-LPS, Rega P3(Shure V15VxMR), Sennheiser HD-580, Vampire Wire SC/IV & Accuphase Interconnect cables, Chord Prodac (coaxial), Acrotec 6N-S1200(bi-wire) mdm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38528 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Modern microwaves hide the blinking 00:00 when the clock is not set ;) Originally designed to not embarrass the technically challenged :) I assume. But life gets much easier if one just accepts the fact that a squeezebox player is designed to be powered 24/7/365 . And it will work weird if one tries otherwise. Swimming upstream is harder... I try to save power by simply turning off my amps on weekdays, leaving them on Friday to Sunday to get my main hifi "warmed up" for quality listening :-) don't kill me, As an audiphile I used to have the hifi on 24/7/365 . My hifi adds +3 centigrades to the indoor temperature in my living room ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567202 Wrote: > No offense taken :-) It seems we differ on this point. Perhaps it's even > a cultural difference. But it's true; we try to be very aware of power > consumption here. And I think you have to agree that globally it does > make a difference what each and everyone of us do (at the risk of > looking like fools and scaring away americans - who, I must to say, > will always be most welcome here). My issue is that I can find much better places to save power than making a device useless to me. If I had to power it done manually with a switch every time I was done with it then I would never use it. Seriously things like a Toyota Prius most likely consume more power in the off state than the Touch. Almost every modern car uses power when it is off, and just because it is not plugged into your house grid does not mean that is "free" power. Personally I would rather see devices like my microwave, oven, coffee maker and such put more effort into NOT using power when off than they do now over say my Touch. The Touch actually provides a feature by using power, those other device provide what? A soft-touch switch and a clock that I always have to reset when the power flickers, I can do without the clock and soft-touch switch. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567199 Wrote: > Things like mircowaves, ovens, etc usually become a big issue to switch > since most have their power either hard wired or in a difficult > location to switch. Also these devices have clocks that would annoy me > to have to set every day. Things like mircowaves, ovens, etc eventually self-organized into SkyNet and a Judgement Day will come! -- mdm Touch(wireless/Tiny/1Tb LaCie) - CA DacMagic - MF A220 - Kelly Transducers KT3, MF A2CD, MF X-CAN, MF X-LPS, Rega P3(Shure V15VxMR), Sennheiser HD-580, Vampire Wire SC/IV & Accuphase Interconnect cables, Chord Prodac (coaxial), Acrotec 6N-S1200(bi-wire) mdm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38528 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567199 Wrote: > How am I being bigoted? I know for myself I could not turn off every > electric device in my house with 3 switches. Things like mircowaves, > ovens, etc usually become a big issue to switch since most have their > power either hard wired or in a difficult location to switch. Also > these devices have clocks that would annoy me to have to set every > day. > > If it was about not going to Denmark, that was a joke I forgot the ;). No offense taken :-) It seems we differ on this point. Perhaps it's even a cultural difference. But it's true; we try to be very aware of power consumption here. And I think you have to agree that globally it does make a difference what each and everyone of us do (at the risk of looking like fools and scaring away americans - who, I must to say, will always be most welcome here). -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567198 Wrote: > I have to ask now: are you always so bigoted? > > Actually, it's all being turned on/off by three switches. It's very > easy to handle. I have to admit though, that I have no water savers - > good idea, though. How am I being bigoted? I know for myself I could not turn off every electric device in my house with 3 switches. Things like mircowaves, ovens, etc usually become a big issue to switch since most have their power either hard wired or in a difficult location to switch. Also these devices have clocks that would annoy me to have to set every day. If it was about not going to Denmark, that was a joke I forgot the ;). -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567195 Wrote: > First off unless you have very little in the way of electronic devices > or have a very serious shutdown/startup procedure for the evening > morning I seriously doubt you power every device off. Course I have > not been to Denmark so things I am sure are different. > > So you have water savers on your shower and the wife likes that. By > water savers I mean the spring loaded valves that only allow water to > pass when you pull a cord. > > Note to self, never go to Denmark. I have to ask now: are you always so bigoted? Actually, it's all being turned on/off by three switches. It's very easy to handle. I have to admit though, that I have no water savers - good idea, though. -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567192 Wrote: > :-) Actually, this is a very normal thing to where I live. We are not > kidding around. The ONLY thing turned at night in my house is the > fridge/freezer (both are full, thank you). Women find it sexy here, you > know, being responsible :-) First off unless you have very little in the way of electronic devices or have a very serious shutdown/startup procedure for the evening morning I seriously doubt you power every device off. Course I have not been to Denmark so things I am sure are different. So you have water savers on your shower and the wife likes that. By water savers I mean the spring loaded valves that only allow water to pass when you pull a cord. Note to self, never go to Denmark. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567188 Wrote: > Why do you have to stop and unmount the server every night. This is the > part I really do not understand. If it is power savings again unless > you have exhausted every other power saving ability in your home the > Touch is the least of your concerns for power. I.E. you have solved > ALL air leaks, using the latest heat pump, have exceeded the required > R-value for both insulation and windows, have your hot water heater on > a timer, heat-pump on a timer, water savers on all showers (the kind > you have to pull on to get water), make sure you also unplug your > microwave, toaster oven, coffee maker, dvd player, tvs, amps, etc every > night. Oh and also you need to keep your fridge and freezer FULL at all > times, which means any time you empty a milk carton you must replace it > immediately with a similar mass object. > > If you do all the above I am surprised you wife has not left you yet. :-) Actually, this is a very normal thing to where I live. We are not kidding around. The ONLY thing turned at night in my house is the fridge/freezer (both are full, thank you). Women find it sexy here, you know, being responsible :-) -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567183 Wrote: > You are right, of course > > > > But it would have to be set just once. As it is now I have to unmount > and stop the server every night. Actually, my wife has stopped using > the Touch because of this :-( Why do you have to stop and unmount the server every night. This is the part I really do not understand. If it is power savings again unless you have exhausted every other power saving ability in your home the Touch is the least of your concerns for power. I.E. you have solved ALL air leaks, using the latest heat pump, have exceeded the required R-value for both insulation and windows, have your hot water heater on a timer, heat-pump on a timer, water savers on all showers (the kind you have to pull on to get water), make sure you also unplug your microwave, toaster oven, coffee maker, dvd player, tvs, amps, etc every night. Oh and also you need to keep your fridge and freezer FULL at all times, which means any time you empty a milk carton you must replace it immediately with a similar mass object. If you do all the above I am surprised you wife has not left you yet. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
mdm;567186 Wrote: > I believe wives don't really like OUR music, so more likely it was just > an excuse. :-) :-) I'm almost certain it wasn't; I filled half the space with HER (strange) music :-) -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567183 Wrote: > Actually, my wife has stopped using the Touch because of this :-( I believe wives don't really like OUR music, so more likely it was just an excuse. :-) -- mdm Touch(wireless/Tiny/1Tb LaCie) - CA DacMagic - MF A220 - Kelly Transducers KT3, MF A2CD, MF X-CAN, MF X-LPS, Rega P3(Shure V15VxMR), Sennheiser HD-580, Vampire Wire SC/IV & Accuphase Interconnect cables, Chord Prodac (coaxial), Acrotec 6N-S1200(bi-wire) mdm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38528 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;567179 Wrote: > This would have to be a soft switch since a hard switch would not allow > the system to shut down first. If it is a soft switch then in order to > allow the user to turn the device back on with the same switch (which if > you don't is just asking for excess support calls) then you can NOT have > a fully off device. You are right, of course m1abrams;567179 Wrote: > Only issue with these would be that both make the device more complex to > use, and many people find the SB line already pretty complex. But it would have to be set just once. As it is now I have to unmount and stop the server every night. Actually, my wife has stopped using the Touch because of this :-( -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
aubuti;566308 Wrote: > Hmm. First you say "-Man, americans!-", and then you post a link showing > higher per capita electricity consumption in Iceland, Norway, Finland, > Canada, Qatar, Sweden, Luxembourg, and Kuwait. I'm confused. > > (Not really -- I know yanks consume too much energy. I just don't see > why you dragged out evidence _against_ the point you were trying to > make.) Man, Icelanders! Norwegians! Fins! Canadians! Qatarians! (?) Swedes! Luxembourgers! Kuwaitians! Greetings from Denmark :-) -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;567177 Wrote: > Instead of forcing the users to come up with highly technical > workarounds, I propose that Logitech either: > > - put a physical on/off button on the device, one which automatically > shuts down gracefully (too late, of course, for this model) > This would have to be a soft switch since a hard switch would not allow the system to shut down first. If it is a soft switch then in order to allow the user to turn the device back on with the same switch (which if you don't is just asking for excess support calls) then you can NOT have a fully off device. Mchl;567177 Wrote: > > or > > - let the user decide (in the settings menu) whether turning the device > off (with the remote or via the screen) should include unmounting the > drive and stopping the server. > > or > > - make the Touch ask the user (when turning the device off) whether the > drive should be unmounted and the server stopped. (and maybe even ask > the user if this should be the default behaviour) Only issue with these would be that both make the device more complex to use, and many people find the SB line already pretty complex. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Instead of forcing the users to come up with highly technical workarounds, I propose that Logitech either: - put a physical on/off button on the device, one which automatically shuts down gracefully (too late, of course, for this model) or - let the user decide (in the settings menu) whether turning the device off (with the remote or via the screen) should include unmounting the drive and stopping the server. or - make the Touch ask the user (when turning the device off) whether the drive should be unmounted and the server stopped. (and maybe even ask the user if this should be the default behaviour) -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Siegfried Löffler;566999 Wrote: > Actually the reason why I first chose ext2 was because I thought it > would > reduce read/write (so for USB FLASH drives it would have been a better > choice to reduce the wear) - but I had not thought about the advantage > of > journalling for protecting the file system. I must admit I dont really > know > how ext3 works -- Is the whole journalling and restoring is automatic > or if > you need tools to restore? You need tools, but I can't imagine a system not supplying them as mandatory these days... ext3 isn't all that new. (ie, there is a special version of fsck for ext3 (called, appropriately enough, fsck.ext3 -- this is part of the debian e2fsprogs these days, so should be included already .. an option in mke2fs sets the journal on, so unless you have an ancient mke2fs, it should be ready to go...) ext3 will save you if your computer crashes or dies. You can be assured that inconsistent state (saved inode but not data, etc) is recoverable... It still won't save you when the power to the drive cuts when you're in the middle of the write. The drive will start spinning down, the heads will not be writing or may be writing garbage as the drive electronics lose power, etc. No amount of software will save you from that unless you have prior notice that the power is about to go out and to stop issuing commands to the drive other than 'spin down'. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Actually the reason why I first chose ext2 was because I thought it would reduce read/write (so for USB FLASH drives it would have been a better choice to reduce the wear) - but I had not thought about the advantage of journalling for protecting the file system. I must admit I dont really know how ext3 works -- Is the whole journalling and restoring is automatic or if you need tools to restore? ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
dg1sek;566915 Wrote: > That's a very good idea, thank you, I was not aware about this feature > of ext3 versus ext2 and had indeed formatted by USB HDD with ext2. ext3 is a journaling filesystem which does help a great deal in preventing file corruption however it is not something I personally would rely on. One should only use ext2 anymore where journaling is not needed such as the boot partition of a nix system. Reason why you do not want to use ext3 in the boot partition is simply because you have very little risk in corruption since you will not mount this partition after boot and the journaling just adds extra overhead. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
JohnSwenson;566171 Wrote: > There is a way around this: format the drive with EXT3 (linux file > system) and then you can pull the plug as much as you want and it won't > mess up anything. > > John S. That's a very good idea, thank you, I was not aware about this feature of ext3 versus ext2 and had indeed formatted by USB HDD with ext2. -- dg1sek dg1sek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39558 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Thats what EXT3 is all about. It takes care of the case of a shutdown in the middle of something going on, it works. I have a headless system with an EXT3 formatted drive that gets turned off by flipping the switch on a power strip. It has been turned off many hundreds of times without a single corruption. If its writing a file when the plug is pulled it may not have proper "end of file" records or whatever in place, but the file system will not be corrupted. For example if you put a EXT3 disk on the Touch, and pull the plug in the middle of a scan, the scan will not be complete, but the file system will be fine. But if you manually stop the server in the middle of a scan you also have an incomplete scan. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:49 PM, snarlydwarf < snarlydwarf.4f4yxb1280868...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com> wrote: > > Siegfried Löffler;566396 Wrote: > Linux has nothing to do with it. > > Yanking power from ANY drive that is potentially being written to is > bad. > That's true - but as in general I do know when I would write, I could live with that. Shutting down an ext2 fs without doing shutdown would not be good at all. Yes you are in theory right and even for a VFAT filesystem you'd better shut down - however, FAT file systems are less fragile, in the old DOS days there was no shutdown... So yes, Linux HAS something to do with that. Or better: Any multitasking OS ... Not that I would now say we should build a touch version on MS-DOS... but still it's an unsolved issue. ( A potential solution could be to mount all FS in Read Only and only have a /tmp in read write that is reformatted at every boot.) Anyhow: The point is, there is no good solution so far for powering the stuff fully down. The power cord for 5$ certainly is not a good solution. So I will probably just leave it switched on. And I can live with that if I can manage to make the USB drive on the Touch work. However, getting it to work is a nightmare with all these bugs in the scanner, memory limitations, drives getting mounted read-only. I already spent several evenings, and for the time being the only working solution I have is to have my PC running as server. And that's really really frustrating.-- Siegfried Löffler * http://dg1sek.home.pages.de * Tel1 +33 95173 4711 * Tel2: +49 7145 969098 * Fax +33 95673 4711 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Siegfried Löffler;566396 Wrote: > > Yeah - but then you radically would switch off a Linux system without > properly shutting down the file systems etc. - it would only be a > question > of time and you would end up with corrupted file systems. That's > exactly > what I mean: No easy solution with Linux based architecture to > shutdown > completely. > > Don't get me wrong - I still like the Linux based architecture very > much. I > just don't think that in terms of "green" it is the best solution > mankind > will ever find... Linux has nothing to do with it. Yanking power from ANY drive that is potentially being written to is bad. What happens when you're mid-write and the drive loses power for any reason? Do you think the drive has some reserve power backup to ensure the write is completed before spinning down? What happens when the drive is only able to write half a sector before the power is gone? This has nothing to do with the OS: it is the nature of mechanical media (especially, though an SSD would have a similar problem if power is removed at the wrong time -- it just has a smaller window since it is faster writing). -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 3:44 PM, snarlydwarf < snarlydwarf.4f4fan1280843...@no-mx.forums.slimdevices.com> wrote: > A power strip costs $5 and gives you a switch. > > There you go, your problem is solved. > > Yeah - but then you radically would switch off a Linux system without properly shutting down the file systems etc. - it would only be a question of time and you would end up with corrupted file systems. That's exactly what I mean: No easy solution with Linux based architecture to shutdown completely. Don't get me wrong - I still like the Linux based architecture very much. I just don't think that in terms of "green" it is the best solution mankind will ever find... ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;566061 Wrote: > I apologize for having been offensive. Here's a list of Average power > per capita, though: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption Hmm. First you say "-Man, americans!-", and then you post a link showing higher per capita electricity consumption in Iceland, Norway, Finland, Canada, Qatar, Sweden, Luxembourg, and Kuwait. I'm confused. (Not really -- I know yanks consume too much energy. I just don't see why you dragged out evidence _against_ the point you were trying to make.) -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Siegfried Löffler;566244 Wrote: > > No. It has nothing at all to do with Linux. > > > > 1) If you turn off a device with a remote, and it is -really- off: > how > > will you turn it back on? It's off: it has no IR sensor waiting for > > > > By pressing a physical button. Not with a remote control. Honestly, I > could > live with that. And I would prefer it. > A power strip costs $5 and gives you a switch. There you go, your problem is solved. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
> No. It has nothing at all to do with Linux. > > 1) If you turn off a device with a remote, and it is -really- off: how > will you turn it back on? It's off: it has no IR sensor waiting for > By pressing a physical button. Not with a remote control. Honestly, I could live with that. And I would prefer it. > 2) A SB Touch can serve multiple players: if you turn 'off' the Touch > in the living room, you won't be able to play music it was serving to > the Radio in the Kitchen. It's off. It doesn't do anything when off. > People would be very annoyed. > It could, but that very function is so buggy that it takes days to get it working. And it would be a lame excuse. One could still make that a choice that the end user makes. I would even be willing to physically press the button in the living room on the (few) days where I want the Touch to serve another SB in the kitchen... And yes, maybe you won't believe it, but I do physically switch of my TV set. For the same reason. I rarely watch TV anyhow and I would be pissed off with the device being responsible for pollution... ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
snarlydwarf;566231 Wrote:
>
> That's not what the person I replied to asked for: he wanted
> -conpletely- off. Zero power.
>
> That is plain and simple impossible without a physical switch.
>
I completely agree, if you want -completely off-, just get a power
strip with a physical switch or similar solution.
snarlydwarf;566231 Wrote:
>
> The power difference between on and off on the touch is not
> significant: the difference is the display power.
>
Ok, I thought it was the hard drive of the attached USB that caused
most power usage or the WiFi circuits if WiFi is used. If it's the
display, we just need a off screen saver that turns off the display
into low power mode. If I remember correctly there is a "Screen off"
screen saver but I'm not sure if it decreases the power usage.
snarlydwarf;566231 Wrote:
>
> There is a menu option to do just that: turning it into some quasi off
> state and believing it is then ok to detach a USB drive would lead
> people to forget that the drive is still being read by some other
> player...
>
> You would have to bring up a dialog box: "I am not turning off: the
> Kitchen player is still attached... "
>
I agree, it's not easy to get this user friendly both when used as
single player (as most mass market users use it) and when used in a
setup with multiple players (as many more advanced users use it). I
just feel that sometimes we tend to make it more complicated for non
technical users just to make it work really good for people on this
forum who typically is more advanced users. I suspect that most users
that use the built-in server in the Touch are only going to use it for
a single player (the Touch itself). People with many players are
probably also going to want the more advanced features which is
available if you have a separate Squeezebox Server on a computer. There
are exceptions to this rule, but I think most users with many players
are going to be happier with a separate server.
For a non technical users with only a single player, I still feel that
most would just want to turn off the device to be sure it's safe to
disconnect the USB drive. Actually, most of them probably just expect
to stop music and then be able to disconnect the USB drive, something
that's not safe on a Windows formatted drive.
However, maybe I'm getting a bit off topic. Assuming the screen off
screen saver decreases the power uses and the USB hard drive doesn't
use a lot of power when it isn't used, that should be enough. For
people that's not satisfied until the device is completely off, get a
separate power switch because the Touch hardware will not get one. It's
not possible to add one in software since there isn't any physical
button that can be used to turn it on afterwards. The future will tell
if future products will have an off switch but I suspect they won't,
some low power standby mode will make most users happier.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
erland;566226 Wrote: > Are you sure it would annoy people ? Yes, I am sure. (Hint: it doesn't have to be 'most' people.) > > It would definitively annoy people if you needed the Touch to be > playing to be able to play music on the Radio in the kitchen but would > it annoy them if the Touch would just have to be on ? > > What if turning off the Touch would shutdown SBS and unmount the USB > drive, but still leave the other parts active. So a user can basically > just hit the power button and know that it's safe to disconnect the USB > drive afterwards ? > That's not what the person I replied to asked for: he wanted -conpletely- off. Zero power. That is plain and simple impossible without a physical switch. > > The Touch would still be active but this would make it really easy for > non technical users to understand when it's safe to disconnect the USB > drive. Also, the Touch would still be alive even though it's built-in > server wouldn't, so when you navigate into My Music on the Kitchen > Radio it would automatically turn on the Touch, mount the drive and > start the built-in server in the Touch. > Then it wouldn't be off, would it? It would at the very least be using WOL, or if wireless, it would be awake with the display off. that isn't off. > > Wouldn't something like that be easier for people to understand ? > That's not off and not what was asked for. > > My thoughts are: > 1. > It has to be simple how to disconnect a USB drive and we can't expect > people to format USB drive with Ext3 as long as Ext3 isn't supported by > the Windows formatting tools. It's not a problem if it works better with > Ext3 but it has too work good enough with a Windows formatted drive and > you shouldn't have to worry about loosing data on the drive. > There is a menu option to do just that: turning it into some quasi off state and believing it is then ok to detach a USB drive would lead people to forget that the drive is still being read by some other player... You would have to bring up a dialog box: "I am not turning off: the Kitchen player is still attached... " > > 2. > It's important that any device can go into a low power mode when it > isn't used, people worry about power usage for environmental reasons > today and we need to consider this if we like to keep living on this > planet in the future. There might be other kind of devices that are > bigger problems but just ignoring it isn't a good idea. > The power difference between on and off on the touch is not significant: the difference is the display power. Again: to be off, you need a physical switch There is no way around that. A $5 power strip will give you that. Various 'sleep' modes won't work. (Ie, other players, "wake on wireless" doesn't exist... and one more thing... but that's at the end.) > > 3. > The Touch might be serving other players, due to this it needs to be > possible to turn it on remotely without standing beside the Touch. > People that want to play music in their bedroom in the morning doesn't > want to be forced to get up and walk into the living room and push a > power button on the Touch to be able to start playing music on their > Radio in the bedroom. And how do you propose to do that if the Touch is wireless? Even if it is WOL, it will be 'on' and still drawing virtuallly the same power. And the one I was saving: if it is off and you want the player in the bedroom to play your favorite playlist at 6:00am... how will it do that when it is off? -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
snarlydwarf;566211 Wrote:
>
> 2) A SB Touch can serve multiple players: if you turn 'off' the Touch
> in the living room, you won't be able to play music it was serving to
> the Radio in the Kitchen. It's off. It doesn't do anything when off.
> People would be very annoyed.
>
Are you sure it would annoy people ?
It would definitively annoy people if you needed the Touch to be
playing to be able to play music on the Radio in the kitchen but would
it annoy them if the Touch would just have to be on ?
What if turning off the Touch would shutdown SBS and unmount the USB
drive, but still leave the other parts active. So a user can basically
just hit the power button and know that it's safe to disconnect the USB
drive afterwards ?
The Touch would still be active but this would make it really easy for
non technical users to understand when it's safe to disconnect the USB
drive. Also, the Touch would still be alive even though it's built-in
server wouldn't, so when you navigate into My Music on the Kitchen
Radio it would automatically turn on the Touch, mount the drive and
start the built-in server in the Touch.
Wouldn't something like that be easier for people to understand ?
I think it's important that the Touch isn't powered off completely, it
has to at least be possible to activate it using a remote or when
another player in the house want to play something. But it would
probably be acceptable if it went into a low power standby mode where
only the necessary parts that was needed to activate it remotely was
still turned on.
How does the Touch work when the built-in server is running ? Does it
spin down the USB drive as long as no player connected to the Touch is
playing music ?
Also, I think the scenarios might be a bit different when the built-in
server is used and when someone has an external server running on a
computer.
My thoughts are:
1.
It has to be simple how to disconnect a USB drive and we can't expect
people to format USB drive with Ext3 as long as Ext3 isn't supported by
the Windows formatting tools. It's not a problem if it works better with
Ext3 but it has too work good enough with a Windows formatted drive and
you shouldn't have to worry about loosing data on the drive.
2.
It's important that any device can go into a low power mode when it
isn't used, people worry about power usage for environmental reasons
today and we need to consider this if we like to keep living on this
planet in the future. There might be other kind of devices that are
bigger problems but just ignoring it isn't a good idea.
3.
The Touch might be serving other players, due to this it needs to be
possible to turn it on remotely without standing beside the Touch.
People that want to play music in their bedroom in the morning doesn't
want to be forced to get up and walk into the living room and push a
power button on the Touch to be able to start playing music on their
Radio in the bedroom.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Siegfried Löffler;566193 Wrote: > > The SB Touch is running an embedded Linux on ARM processor. > The clean way of "switching off" a Linux system is to do a complete > shutdown, which however takes time, and takes even more time to wake > the > system up (reboot) afterwards. You can btw observe this on many BluRay > players who take ages to boot. > No. It has nothing at all to do with Linux. 1) If you turn off a device with a remote, and it is -really- off: how will you turn it back on? It's off: it has no IR sensor waiting for input, no RF sensor waiting for input, no ethernet waiting for 'wake on lan'... it's OFF. You can NOT turn it back on unless you flip a physical switch. There is no way around this. 2) A SB Touch can serve multiple players: if you turn 'off' the Touch in the living room, you won't be able to play music it was serving to the Radio in the Kitchen. It's off. It doesn't do anything when off. People would be very annoyed. > > Yet - if all people on earth who have HiFi chains today buy SBTouches > and > leave them switched on day and night - can you imagine what the > additional > power consumption would be?!? > > So - it's not responsible behaviour to leave it switched on - but its > not > well designed for being switched off. > > Seems there is no easy solution? You do know that is true for your TV, your Microwave, your PC... unless you PHYSICALLY flip a switch or unplug them, they are on. (The switch on the FRONT of your PC does not turn it off. You have to use the one on the back.) Again: if you turn something fully off, you can NOT turn it back on without a physical switch. Period. IR sensors require electricity, as does RF and Wifi and even the touch sensitive panel on the front of your Microwave. It has nothing to do with Linux: I dare you to just use the big switch on the back of your Windows machine to turn it off at night. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
The size of the company can't help if the underlying technology doesn't make it easy. The SB Touch is running an embedded Linux on ARM processor. The clean way of "switching off" a Linux system is to do a complete shutdown, which however takes time, and takes even more time to wake the system up (reboot) afterwards. You can btw observe this on many BluRay players who take ages to boot. So, while I agree that this is not nice, I think indeed most people probably would prefer to pollute and spend 7$ a year on electricity... rather than to wait. We need a real change in mentality and in systems design. Of course the 7$ is not a reason to change your behaviour, not if you have just paied >200$ for a device that anyhow will be "written down" and probably replaced by its successor in less than 1.5 years. Yet - if all people on earth who have HiFi chains today buy SBTouches and leave them switched on day and night - can you imagine what the additional power consumption would be?!? So - it's not responsible behaviour to leave it switched on - but its not well designed for being switched off. Seems there is no easy solution? ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;566061 Wrote: > > > I can confirm that this sequence has to be followed; powering off > without stopping the server first results in trouble upon restarting. > This should be easier. People shouldn't be bothered with technicalities > in order to be able to save power, i.e. the server shouldn't cause > problems when restarting from a 'raw' power off. > There is a way around this: format the drive with EXT3 (linux file system) and then you can pull the plug as much as you want and it won't mess up anything. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
To go with the other stats: http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/07/productivity_or.html -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
well you need to stop the SB server running because you have a usb drive mounted and you should properly unmount the drive BEFORE cutting power. Just like you do not just pull the power cord on your desktop computer. The reason why hitting the power button does not stop the server running is because 1 it takes some time to start it back up and 2 it might be needed for other clients. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;565986 Wrote: > Seriously, EVERY device that has a remote or Soft-Touch button does NOT > turn fully off. This includes but not limited to, TVs, VCRs, DVDs, > Game Consoles, Coffee Makers, Microwaves, Toasters, and many more. > > As I already stated the amount of power the Touch uses is very small > and it does this to provide FEATURES not just suck power because to > people who made it are lazy. I would be very upset if they removed the > features to save 2 watts of power. > > Love the "americans" comment too! Everyone knows we are fat power > hungry a...@#$, wow. > > Forgot to add, the Prius guess what does not have a button to turn it > fully OFF. Connect an current meter up to the battery terminals when > it is "off". In fact I will bet money it uses more power than a touch. Actually, what I was aiming at (and how were you to know) was this: >From the Squeezebox wiki: "Powering Squeezebox Touch OFF A Squeezebox Touch with an attached USB hard drive [or, in my case, an sd card] can be left powered ON continuously. If you wish to turn Squeezebox Touch OFF, you must follow this sequence: 1. Stop Squeezebox Server by going to Settings->Advanced->Squeezebox Server->Stop Squeezebox Server 2. Unplug power cord from Squeezebox Touch" I can confirm that this sequence has to be followed; powering off without stopping the server first results in trouble upon restarting. This should be easier. People shouldn't be bothered with technicalities in order to be able to save power, i.e. the server shouldn't cause problems when restarting from a 'raw' power off. Generally, I really like the Touch; great sound, great functionality - and the low power consumption when playing is simply impressive. I'm fine with the fact that turning it off with the remote or via the screen does not shut it down, no problem at all, all I ask for is not having to follow a procedure in order to turn off the power. I apologize for having been offensive. Here's a list of Average power per capita, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption Kind regards Michael -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
snarlydwarf;565944 Wrote: > Right and the same could be said of Samsung, Hitachi, LG, RCA, Sony, > Onkyo, Toshiba, etc. > > if it has a remote, it doesn't really turn off or you could not turn it > on with the remote. > > As for the "americans!" comment: are you always so bigoted? Seriously, EVERY device that has a remote or Soft-Touch button does NOT turn fully off. This includes but not limited to, TVs, VCRs, DVDs, Game Consoles, Coffee Makers, Microwaves, Toasters, and many more. As I already stated the amount of power the Touch uses is very small and it does this to provide FEATURES not just suck power because to people who made it are lazy. I would be very upset if they removed the features to save 2 watts of power. Love the "americans" comment too! Everyone knows we are fat power hungry a...@#$, wow. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
snarlydwarf;565944 Wrote: > Right and the same could be said of Samsung, Hitachi, LG, RCA, Sony, > Onkyo, Toshiba, etc. > > if it has a remote, it doesn't really turn off or you could not turn it > on with the remote. > > As for the "americans!" comment: are you always so bigoted? No, I'm not, sorry. -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Mchl;565938 Wrote: > Man, americans! I simply cannot believe that a big company like Logitech > can produce a device that can't be powered off. This is 2010. But wait > and see, in five years you will find this absurd too (I hope) :-) > > Btw. it can be powered off, of course, but clearly it's intended to be > left on. Globally, this is obviously an enormous waste of energy. Right and the same could be said of Samsung, Hitachi, LG, RCA, Sony, Onkyo, Toshiba, etc. if it has a remote, it doesn't really turn off or you could not turn it on with the remote. As for the "americans!" comment: are you always so bigoted? -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
m1abrams;562816 Wrote: > Why do you unplug the power? The touch uses very little power. I > completely understand wanting to reduce ones power usage but unplugging > a device like the touch every night is not really saving much power at > all. The touch uses ~5W with drive connected. So 365days * 24hours * > 5W = ~44kWH . My current power cost is $0.15 per kWH which for the US > is on the high side of power costs. At my rate it costs me a whole > $6.60 to power the Touch for an entire year. Man, americans! I simply cannot believe that a big company like Logitech can produce a device that can't be powered off. This is 2010. But wait and see, in five years you will find this absurd too (I hope) :-) Btw. it can be powered off, of course, but clearly it's intended to be left on. Globally, this is obviously an enormous waste of energy. -- Mchl Mchl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
seaco;563477 Wrote: > Thank you very much, John. > I follow your instruction and power-off function is OK. And I set > screen off now. > Would you give me another instruction: If I didn't appendix or remove > any music files from my USB HD and I power on my Touch. Is there any > way to make my Touch not to scan my USB HD? I got 21GB music files and > it really waste my time. If you have successfully performed a full scan, the powerup scan should only take a minute or so with only 21GB of data. Is it taking much longer than that? I don't know of a way to stop the scan. Someone else has mentioned that there is an item in the server.prefs file that turns off the scan, but I have not tried that. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
JohnSwenson;562709 Wrote: > > Anyway its theoretically not a problem as long as your network has a > connection to the internet, then it can get time from mysqueezebox.com > at boot time. If you have a connection to the internet and its NOT > getting time then we need to find out why. If you don't have a > connection to the internet, then you better keep the Touch running all > the time if you want to be able to display a clock. > > John S. Thank you very much, John. I follow your instruction and power-off function is OK. And I set screen off now. Would you give me another instruction: If I didn't appendix or remove any music files from my USB HD and I power on my Touch. Is there any way to make my Touch not to scan my USB HD? I got 21GB music files and it really waste my time. -- seaco seaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Why do you unplug the power? The touch uses very little power. I completely understand wanting to reduce ones power usage but unplugging a device like the touch every night is not really saving much power at all. The touch uses ~5W with drive connected. So 365days * 24hours * 5W = ~44kWH . My current power cost is $0.15 per kWH which for the US is on the high side of power costs. At my rate it costs me a whole $6.60 to power the Touch for an entire year. -- m1abrams m1abrams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
seaco;562686 Wrote: > > *** > It's not friendly... I unplug power at night and I want to listen next > morning, I have to set my clock again, there should be a built-in > batery to supply clock power... > *** > Unfortunately there is no battery and there is no way to add one. I can easily see how that happened. All previous Squeezebox hardware had to run connected to an external server, if the hardware needed time it just got it from the server. There was never any need for a battery. When the hardware for the Touch was speced it was as a replacement for the SB3, which has to run off an external server. This being able to run a server on the Touch itself was an after thought, not a primary design goal, I'm sure the concept of needing a battery backed up clock just never even came up. Anyway its theoretically not a problem as long as your network has a connection to the internet, then it can get time from mysqueezebox.com at boot time. If you have a connection to the internet and its NOT getting time then we need to find out why. If you don't have a connection to the internet, then you better keep the Touch running all the time if you want to be able to display a clock. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
First off, what are you expecting the power button to do? All it does is stop whatever is playing and invokes the "off" screensaver, which by default is the clock. It does not put the hardware into a "sleep" state that uses less power or any such thing. Just stopping the current playing song will cause the Touch to use less power. ** Oh~ I see, there is no real sleep mode for "Touch" ** There has been a bug on this for quite a while with quite a bit of information. The latest info seems to be that under some circumstances when running the local server the internal clock does not get set. When the clock screensaver tries to start it notices that the clock is not set and won't bring up the clock display. * Yes, I often use local server to play my music files. Oh~ That's why my clock screeensaver didn't show in my screen, does ver7.6 fix this problem? * If your reason for pushing the off button is to get into a low power mode your best bet is to set the off screensaver to "screen off", this will turn off the screen back light and stop anything playing. This will be the lowest power state the Touch can be in. For saving energy, I will follow yout suggestion and set screensaver to "Screen off" tonight. If the reason for pushing the off button is to see the clock, you have to make sure the clock gets set. It gets unset when it reboots (powers up). If you have an internet connection it will try and connect to mysqueezebox.com from which it can set its clock. If you don't normally have an internet connection but can temporarily connect it you can do so and explicitly connect to mysqueezebox.com and the clock will get set. *** It's not friendly... I unplug power at night and I want to listen next morning, I have to set my clock again, there should be a built-in batery to supply clock power... *** Try setting the off screensaver to something other than a clock and see if it will come up when the power button is pressed. If it still does not come up there is something else going on and the developers will really want to know about it. *** Thank you, John *** -- seaco seaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
peterw;562006 Wrote:
> And don't expect much savings. Touch, and its screen, are very power
> efficient. With a USB hard drive attached, my Touch when "off" seems to
> draw about 2/3 of a watt less with the screen dark than with the black
> digital clock showing (~4.15w vs ~4.85w). Power use is less if I
> "eject" and unplug the USB drive (about 2.75w when off with the screen
> dark).
Have you tried with a drive that spins down when not used? Or doesn't
that work with the Touch ?
--
erland
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(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
JohnSwenson;561962 Wrote: > > If your reason for pushing the off button is to get into a low power > mode your best bet is to set the off screensaver to "screen off", this > will turn off the screen back light and stop anything playing. This > will be the lowest power state the Touch can be in. And don't expect much savings. Touch, and its screen, are very power efficient. With a USB hard drive attached, my Touch when "off" seems to draw about 2/3 of a watt less with the screen dark than with the black digital clock showing (~4.15w vs ~4.85w). Power use is less if I "eject" and unplug the USB drive (about 2.75w when off with the screen dark). -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ Free plugins: 'AllQuiet' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/AllQuiet.html) 'Auto Dim/AutoDisplay' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/AutoDisplay.html) 'BlankSaver' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/BlankSaver.html) 'ContextMenu' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/ContextMenu.html) 'DenonSerial' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/DenonSerial.html) 'FuzzyTime' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/FuzzyTime.html) 'KidsPlay' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/KidsPlay.html) 'KitchenTimer' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/KitchenTimer.html) 'PlayLog' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/PlayLog.html) 'PowerCenter/BottleRocket' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/PowerCenter.html) 'SaverSwitcher' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SaverSwitcher.html) 'SettingsManager' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SettingsManager.html) 'SleepFade' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SleepFade.html) 'StatusFirst' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/StatusFirst.html) 'SyncOptions' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SyncOptions.html) 'VolumeLock' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/VolumeLock.html) peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
First off, what are you expecting the power button to do? All it does is stop whatever is playing and invokes the "off" screensaver, which by default is the clock. It does not put the hardware into a "sleep" state that uses less power or any such thing. Just stopping the current playing song will cause the Touch to use less power. There has been a bug on this for quite a while with quite a bit of information. The latest info seems to be that under some circumstances when running the local server the internal clock does not get set. When the clock screensaver tries to start it notices that the clock is not set and won't bring up the clock display. If your reason for pushing the off button is to get into a low power mode your best bet is to set the off screensaver to "screen off", this will turn off the screen back light and stop anything playing. This will be the lowest power state the Touch can be in. If the reason for pushing the off button is to see the clock, you have to make sure the clock gets set. It gets unset when it reboots (powers up). If you have an internet connection it will try and connect to mysqueezebox.com from which it can set its clock. If you don't normally have an internet connection but can temporarily connect it you can do so and explicitly connect to mysqueezebox.com and the clock will get set. If you have no way to connect the Touch to the internet you will have to manually set the date and time. Unfortunately this is not easy. You have to use SSH to login to the Touch and use the linux date command to set the clock. You only have to do this once as long as the Touch doesn't reboot. Try setting the off screensaver to something other than a clock and see if it will come up when the power button is pressed. If it still does not come up there is something else going on and the developers will really want to know about it. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
I have the same problem using a USB thumbdrive. The drive appears to be "alive" when powered off. -- Waldo Pepper Waldo Pepper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
seaco;561846 Wrote: > > If I connect and disconnect my usb HD several times, and squeezebox > server library(USB) will also update, then I press "Power" button, the > screen still on. Are you using the onscreen menus to tell Touch you want to unplug the hard drive each time? -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ Free plugins: 'AllQuiet' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/AllQuiet.html) 'Auto Dim/AutoDisplay' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/AutoDisplay.html) 'BlankSaver' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/BlankSaver.html) 'ContextMenu' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/ContextMenu.html) 'DenonSerial' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/DenonSerial.html) 'FuzzyTime' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/FuzzyTime.html) 'KidsPlay' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/KidsPlay.html) 'KitchenTimer' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/KitchenTimer.html) 'PlayLog' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/PlayLog.html) 'PowerCenter/BottleRocket' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/PowerCenter.html) 'SaverSwitcher' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SaverSwitcher.html) 'SettingsManager' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SettingsManager.html) 'SleepFade' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SleepFade.html) 'StatusFirst' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/StatusFirst.html) 'SyncOptions' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/SyncOptions.html) 'VolumeLock' (http://www.tux.org/~peterw/slim/VolumeLock.html) peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] operating question about power-off
Hello, I have a question of "Display remains on after pressing power button". Most of time, I press "power" button, the screen gets into Digital clock. If I connect and disconnect my usb HD several times, and squeezebox server library(USB) will also update, then I press "Power" button, the screen still on. I have updated my touch into ver7.5.1 and everytime I found this situation I will restore factory setting. After resting, screen display digital clock is quite normal, but after several times of USB HD lib connection, the power button won't make screen in digital clock screensaver. My Touch will never sleep, I have to unplug power line. What should I do, I seldom see other fans with this case. 1.Should I double check screensaver setting ? 2.reset button in the back helps me? 3.I am tired of restore factory setting, cause everytime I reset, I have to update again and modify asia fonts to see my music tag. Please help me. -- seaco seaco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80447 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
