Re: [ubuntu-art] Dust menubar evolution

[Andreas Nilsson]

Hi!
You must continue on that icon concept you have!
I'll try out the new Dust 0.2 later today and give feedback

/Andreas


FrezoreR


> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:38:42 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Dust menubar evolution
> 
> 
> New release: Dust 0.2!
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/DustTheme
> 
> As for the round WM buttons, consider them as placeholders as I was too lazy
> to port the Dust WM buttons onto the light one. :b
> 
> (kwwii: I think I'm too late here, but if this new releases could be pushed
> for the community-themes that'd be awesome.)
> 
> 
> Thorsten Wilms wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 19:43 -0700, Rico Sta. Cruz wrote:
>> 
>>> 1) Light toolbars
>>> http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9896/dusttoolbarko0.png
>> 
>> That's interesting. Although, conceptually, the menu-bar is much closer
>> to the tool-bar than to the title-bar.
>> 
>> 
>>> 2) Light version.
>>> http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4532/dustsand2ks2.png
>> 
>> Promising. Round wm-buttons move it towards Apple, though, I'd say, as
>> much as I dislike worrying about that :)
>> 
>> 
>>> 3) New scrollbars!
>>>http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6352/dustnewscrollbarsfj4.png
>> 
>> The shading of the trough looks a bit like an overdose of ambient
>> occlusion. I think you would do better with thinner shadows on the
>> sides. The idea of letting the bar run out on the ends is an interesting
>> touch. The slider looks like it is offset to the left from the middle.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Thorsten Wilms
>> 
>> thorwil's design for free software:
>> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Dust-menubar-evolution-tp19487168p19735221.html
> Sent from the ubuntu-art mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version

[Andreas Nilsson]

I figured something like that, since it's smooth in all other parts. 
But hey! I've learned somethin now =)

keep up the good work!

-AN


FrezoreR


> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:57:49 +0200
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version
> 
> Il giorno dom, 21/09/2008 alle 15.31 +0200, Andreas Nilsson ha scritto:
>> Yes that was what I meant. Is that due to gnome or something you can
>> fix?
> It's a problem about Metacity decoration. I'm already trying to fix it.
> I don't know if it is fixable but I can try to make it more nice and
> consistency.
> 
> Thanks for you feedback.
> 
> gp
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version

[Andreas Nilsson]

Yes that was what I meant. Is that due to gnome or something you can fix?


FrezoreR


> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:56:22 +0200
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version
> 
> Il giorno dom, 21/09/2008 alle 14.43 +0200, Andreas Nilsson ha scritto:
>> the outer border of the windows are a little pixely ( if that's a
>> word ). I can see single pixels in the rounded edges of the outside of
>> the window. 
> 
> Do you referring to that?
> http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nxscda2.png
> 
> gp
> 
> ps: I updated the wiki,
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NaxosIntrepid
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version

[Andreas Nilsson]

the outer border of the windows are a little pixely ( if that's a word ). I can 
see single pixels in the rounded edges of the outside of the window. 

I usually get the same effects without anti-aliasing. I hope you understand, I 
dont have a photoshop installed so I cant paint arrows to show what I mean.

-Andreas


FrezoreR


> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:37:40 +0200
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version
> 
> Il giorno dom, 21/09/2008 alle 14.13 +0200, Andreas Nilsson ha scritto:
>> Hi
>> I like this better than the orange one and it's a nice and smooth
>> theme.
> Yes, I think it is more relaxing for users.
> 
>> Although the corners annoys me, they doesnt look as smooth as the rest
>> of the theme, if you understand what I mean.
>> 
> I think that I have not understood. Can you give me an example?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> gp 
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version

[Andreas Nilsson]

Hi
I like this better than the orange one and it's a nice and smooth theme.
Although the corners annoys me, they doesnt look as smooth as the rest of the 
theme, if you understand what I mean.

-Andreas


FrezoreR


> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:13:48 +0200
> Subject: [ubuntu-art] Naxos Theme Clear Version
> 
> I maded a clear version of Naxos Theme. Gray and orange.
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NaxosIntrepid?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=NaxosClear.png
> 
> For try the theme:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NaxosIntrepid?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=NaxosClear-0.5.tar.gz
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> gp
> 
> ps: I want improve panel bar
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] The WidescreenIbexSunset wallpaper

[Andreas Nilsson]

Hi
Good job!
IMHO I think it's to much contrast between the bg and the animal. Maybe if you 
color it very dark red might do better. 
I liked the concept with a nature like background the best.

-Andreas 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:23:22 +0200
Subject: [ubuntu-art] The WidescreenIbexSunset wallpaper







Hello everyone ,

 

I've made some final changes to the wallpaper .

Plz feel free to comment , i really wanna know if someone likes it .

 

Here you'll find it :

 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/IbexSunset-widescreen

 

Greetz to you all .

 

AutiCoder

Start het nieuwe schooljaar sterk en voordelig! Windows

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Re: [ubuntu-art] artwork for the Ubuntu idea brainstorming website

[Andreas Nilsson]

Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-12-30 at 11:49 +0100, Nicolas Deschildre wrote:
>
>   
>> Thanks for the nice sketches!
>> I particularly like the light bulb in the 3D Ubuntu logo because it
>> carries the meaning. It makes the association of the two symbols of
>> Ubuntu and idea, and it's like the idea bulb is growing inside Ubuntu.
>> 
>
> You're welcome.
>
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2007/12/30/ubuntu-brainstorm-2/
>
> Tell me if you're ok with the direction for the bulb and if one of the
> bug sketches does it for you :)
>   
Here is the bug sticker image we did for GUADEC if anyone wants to reuse 
that.
http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/nobugs.png
http://andreasn.se/diverse/temp/nobugs.svg
- Andreas

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[ubuntu-art] Help needed to identify icons that gets tiny when dragged to the desktop.

[Andreas Nilsson]

Hi everyone!
I recently ran into a bug [1] on launchpad that said that icons dragged 
from the menu to the desktop gets very tiny. This is because the 
application don't install a icon into 
$prefix/share/icons/hicolor/$size/apps.
Tracked down a bunch of them [2], but I could need some help to identify 
the others.
Just drag some of your launchers to the desktop and see if you get the 
result you expect basically.

1.https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/122937

2.
Banshee: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=495279 

Totem: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502931 

Sound Juicer: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502933 
 (fixed)
Rhythmbox: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502935 

Display Properties: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502942 

Session Properties: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502944 

Sound Properties: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502945 
 (fixed)
Network Proxy: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502942 

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Notification Area Icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

Matthew Nicholson wrote:
> While most of the icons show in this thread are indeed nice icons, I
> think having some separate package/effort of the notification area icons
> is very counter to the "normal" Gnome behavior. Normally, the icons in
> the notification area are changed by a). the icons theme currently
> applied (nm-applet) or b). the application itself (pidgin). Having some
> separate icon set would break this. What about applications we don't
> plan for? The icons would look out of place. What if the icon theme is
> changed? Would the notification area icons remain the same, or would
> they use the new theme? 
>   
Hi Matthew!
We can always bring this discussion up in GNOME upstream, it's totally 
worth a shot and probably the right way to do it.
This was also the strategy panel maintainer Vincent Untz suggested we 
should take when I spoke to him about this.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Notification Area Icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> Here is a rough idea I made a week or so ago...
> http://sinecera.de/panel_icons.png
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
> On Wednesday 28 November 2007 18:50:28 Dwight Shepherd wrote:
>   
>> I have been reading the mailing list and the idea has popped up from time
>> to time that we move away from the coloured icons in the notification area.
>>
>> and I stumbled upon this.
>> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Weather+Replacement+Icons?conten
>> t=70662
>>
>> I like the way the icons looked look "etched out".  Any other opinions?
>> 
Hi Kenneth!
Something that concerned me is how the monochrome will display on 
different backgrounds (as we have dark, grey and very light themes in 
gnome-themes and gnome-themes-extras).
Did some tests adding a white border, just like the HighContrast icons have.
http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/mono-tray.png (just replace png with 
svg for the original image).
I'll do some tests with etching as well.
- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Icon theme suggestion

[Andreas Nilsson]

Dalton Miyabara wrote:
> Wow,
>
> I really like these icons. The glossy one´s are the things that "look glossy" 
> in real life, like the monitor
> and the folder.
>
> So, I guess that this iconset fits with the "tango rules".
>   
Hi Dalton!
As it's currently not possible to download the actual icons, I haven't 
tried these out in action. We have been putting a lot of work into 
gnome-icon-theme, that this is based on though. As far as I can see, the 
inner stroke on the black objects are a bit too light, but apart from 
that they should work well.
Should probably make sure to add that Neo-phone to 
gnome-icon-theme-extras [1] as soon as the set is released.

1.http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-icon-theme-extras/trunk/
- Andreas
>
> Cheers,
> Dalton
>
>
>
> -- Cabeçalho original ---
>
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Para: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Cópia: 
> Data: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:36:38 -0500
> Assunto: [ubuntu-art] Icon theme suggestion
>
>   
>> Hey check out this icon theme. I dont think its too glossy. This seems to be
>> right up Hardy's ally.
>>
>> What do you guys think?
>>
>> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Blangerine?content=70165
>>
>> E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
>> Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
>>
>> 
> http://mail.terra.com.br/cgi-bin/imail.cgi?+_u=dmiya&_l=1,1196271411.990951.15141.tacamaca.hst.terra.com.br,3846,Des15,Des15
>   
>
>
>   


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Save icon

[Andreas Nilsson]

Alper Beser wrote:
> Hey,
> that would cause too much irritation for too less - imo. Many people 
> might think of a "download" folder or something like that, when they 
> see the icons you linked to.
>
> It's definitley not necessary.
Hi Alper!
Actually, downloading is the same as saving if you think about it, just 
from a remote location.
The reason we went for a hard drive in tango-icon-theme and 
gnome-icon-theme is because we thought it's such a seldom used medium 
these days (14 year old kids don't know what it is :) ). It made more 
sense ten years ago when you actually used to save your data on floppies 
I guess.
I agree that it's a tricky situation though (since people are used to 
see the floppy symbol etc.) and to some extent the instant-save model 
used by apps like tomboy and others could make more sense.
- Andreas
>
> regards
>
> 2007/11/26, Denis Washington <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think the Human icon theme's usage of a floppy disk as metaphor for
> saving is becoming very outdated. Instead, I think we should move to a
> hard disk metaphor like done in the Tango and GNOME icon themes. I
> filed
> a bug about this to Launchpad:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-icon-theme/+bug/136584
>
> Regards,
> Denis
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Matte for the next release?

[Andreas Nilsson]

Hi Sylvain!
Can you turn off the caps-button please?
Your e-mails are making me nervous. :)
- Andreas


sylvain marc skrev:
> SORRY IF MY FIRTS POST IS TOO BIG - I TRY TO CANCEL IT LIKE IT WAS 
> EXPLAIN HERE :  
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/confirm/ubuntu-art/937276445103c0ebf02ae929dedb62b826c82c69
> ..
> I LIKE http://mandarancio.deviantart.com/art/Minimal-perception-67892707
> AND http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Muku+GTK?content=59034
> AND I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO MAKE A MIX OF THE THEMES LIKE I 
> EXPLAIN IT IN MY DOCUMENT I POST YESTERDAY) : ORANGE-LINSTABLACKPLASIC 
> / CRUX / MINT / GLOSSY-GLASS /
>
> Sam7 (Sylvain)
>
> 2007/11/22, Who <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Seeing as Kenneth says that this is the time to suggest ideas to be
> taken in to account when the final artwork direction is decided I
> would like to start some discussion of the merits of using a matte
> theme (with small glossy elements/highlights) for the next release of
> Ubuntu
>
> I'd love anyone who has ideas on why this is a good or bad idea to
> chime in. I'll list a few of my own to get discussion started
>
> I'm suggesting it, so I'll list why I think it's a good idea to go
> mainly matte.
>
> Problems with Glossyness:
> 1. It's been DONE (by Ubuntu and by everyone else)
> --- Shiny themes have been done and are everywhere now. Ubuntu's
> design wants to STAND OUT, and we want to make a new chapter in
> Ubuntu's design! OsX used to be king of gloss, but in Leopard we see
> Apple shifting away from it  (but admittedly not quite being able to
> let go).
>
> 2. It's DISTRACTING
> --- Shinnyness is _distracting_ from the what you are working on.
> GNOME is designed not to get in your way while you do your work, but
> shinny things that cry out for your attention minimise it's
> effectiveness in doing this
>
> 3. It's not (very) TANGO Compliant
> --- Tango guidelines ask only for things that are glossy in real life
> to be glossy. Given that more and more applications are adopting
> Tango
> icons we are giving ourselves a much larger job if we create a theme
> that Tango doesn't fit in to, because for total consistency we have to
> re-theme all the applications.
>
> 4. It feels LESS REALISTIC
> --- As Tango guidelines point out, real surfaces are rarely glossy...
> Using icons that represent real objects helps people intuitively use
> applications and understand icons, adding gloss somewhat detracts from
> this. It leads to 'cartoon' design in many cases.
>
> Nice things about matte themes
> 1. They can be SOFTER
> --- contrast in a matte theme can be lower, so the whole set of
> widgets is easier to look at ('easier on the eyes'). It makes the
> interface feel more human, to me...
>
> 2. BROWN and Matte > Brown and glossy
> --- One of the contradictions in Ubuntu UI policy seems to be the
> difficulty of brown vs orange. One of the reasons we have this is
> becasue brown does not look good glossy, and orange does! If
> Ubuntu is
> going to stay brown using a matte theme allows the designers more
> scope and allows for greater colour consistency. Brown isn't a very
> glossy colour
>
> 3. Textures are often matte
> -- Elephants, for example ;)
>
>
> There are some really original ones around (yes, so I'm sure there are
> orignal glossy ones around too, please post them if you find them :)
>
> After some trawling, here we go
> Just the _buttons_ on this theme are beautiful:
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aurora+Sand?content=69773
> Someone called 'Lyrae' has a whole host of similar (awesome and
> original) matte/square themes:
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Reuben?content=55876
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Nova?content=57310
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Fawn?content=58426
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Calla?content=52297
>
> This 'wooden' is kind cool
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Muku+GTK?content=59034
> 
>
> So is the Clearlooks theme from Breezy
> http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=218&image=ubuntu_breezyc2_14_lrg
> 
>
> Nodoka, is a nice theme engine to use
> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Nodoka+GTK%2B+Engine?content=64604
>
> So, let's have a discussion about it - what do people think?
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] logo for swfdec

[Andreas Nilsson]

Andreas Nilsson skrev:
> Hi all!
> I know this isn't specifically related to Ubuntu, but Benjamin Otte is 
> looking for a nice logo design for Swfdec and I thought someone 
> subscribed to this list might be interested.
> http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2007/10/17/hello-artists/
>
> - Andreas
>
>   
Hi all!
Forgot to follow up on this.
http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2007/10/26/logo/
It's already on the launchpad page.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Members details

[Andreas Nilsson]

Steph wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just wanted to know from wich country is everybody here, and wich 
> language do you speak (might be useful). I thought about a new "Member 
> Page" on the Ubuntu Wiki, section Art, but maybe it's too private for 
> some of us ?
>
> I'm Steph, 17 years old and living in Montpellier, France.
>
> Your turn :)
Hi!
My name is Andreas Nilsson. From Sweden. 25 years old.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] using a dark theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

Who wrote:
> Just a note: I think we should probably be filing upstream bugs about
> apps that don't work properly with dark themes (providing new
> art/solutions, if we can... we are an art team - after all!)
>   
Great idea!
GNOME bugzilla can be found here: http://bugzilla.gnome.org
Also, there is currently no dark theme included in gnome-themes (only 
gnome-themes-extras named darklooks). Might cool improve darklooks (or 
darkgilouche perhaps) or coming up with a new, good dark theme and 
include it in gnome-themes at some point.
> So, I agree - we probably can't have a dark theme this time around and
> also have the level of polish an LTS release needs.
>   
Very good point. Agreed.
- Andreas
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 1:33 AM, Tiago Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Another problem: try to play Mines with a dark theme. It's nearly 
>> impossible...
>>
>> T.
>>
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2007 5:59 PM, tonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I often wish we could have two colourings for controls. One dark one for
>>> controls out of focus and light colours for the active window. There is
>>> a compiz plugin can fake this but actual correct colouring would be
>>> better.
>>>
>>> For example using the ADD Helper plugin I currently have non-focused
>>> windows darkened 10%, and de-saturated 50%.
>>>
>>> tonic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 14:28 -0600, Matthew Nuzum wrote:
>>>   
 I've been experimenting with using dark themes. I've tried the Ubuntu
 Studio theme, which looks very shiny, and I've tried a customized
 theme which looks like this:
 http://code.bearfruit.org/~matt/MattsDesktop.jpg I used my customized
 theme for two weeks, I've been using Ubuntu Studio for about two
 hours.

 Number one problem with the two themes I've used is the lack of
 contrast in icons, and especially text.

 Number two problem is that a lot of contrast between the window (white
 web pages, etc) and the chrome around the window or on adjacent
 windows makes it difficult to re-focus your eyes when switching tasks
 or applications.

 Number three problem is that some programs make poor assumptions about
 the background colors of some of the widgets. For example, the url
 drop-down list in firefox or the auto-complete dropdowns that show up
 below firefox's form fields. These appear to be black text on
 dark-dark grey and are nearly unreadable.

 These things will need to be addressed with care.

 That being said:
  * The transparency of inactive windows in the ubuntu studio theme is
 beautiful. I'm personally getting tired of glossyness, but the ubuntu
 studio theme's dark gloss could support transparency even on the
 active window.
  * The Orange and grey theme I've been using has turned a lot of
 heads. Like the Apple doc, it's long-term usability is questionable
 (since the lighter grey affords less contrast) but it sure does
 attract eyeballs.

 --
 Matthew Nuzum
 newz2000 on freenode
 
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Some criticism

[Andreas Nilsson]

Carlos Moreno wrote:
> Hopefully constructive criticism, though I'm not sure about the
> timing in terms of any upcoming changes.  Anyway...
>
> I think my biggest complaint about the look of Ubuntu's interface
> (the default GNOME, of course --- don't know about KDE, and
> sorry to be blunt, but could not care any less about KDE) is the
> "unicolor-ism" of the icons.  Color is an incredibly powerful and
> efficient mechanism to convey information, and it is IMHO being
> sacrificed.
Yes. Apparently the first thing the human mind recognize is color, the 
second is shape.
> I have a Fedora box right here next to my main, Ubuntu one, and
> the same exercise only requires looking in the general direction
> of the window where the icons are --- the camera is so obvious
> that it's like I simply take a glance at the screen, and the camera
> "calls me".  Another dramatic example is the "Oh no!" icon.  So
> extremely and instantaneously obvious to my eyes in the full-
> color Fedora emblems;  flat round orange thing with some white
> lines in it (which is to say identical to every single other one) in
> the Ubuntu emblems
Fedora use the upstream GNOME emblems. Not sure why ubuntu don't do that 
as well. Nautilus tagging-system isn't as good as del.icio.us or flickr, 
but I'm happy you like the icons.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy Cursor Theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

xl cheese wrote:
> I have not heard mention of doing a Ubuntu specific cursor theme?  Is 
> this something we can create as well?
>  
> I created this one a few months ago.
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Ubuntu+Crystal+Cursors?content=66327
>  
> that cursor theme is a bit raw.  If I were to spend some time on it 
> I'd make the ubuntu logo spin 3D-ishly around the pointers.
Hi!
I think the current cursor rocks, very neutral and silent, and pointers 
should mostly be used and not seen!
Would perhaps be neat to include as a alternative though.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Fonts

[Andreas Nilsson]

Andrew Laignel wrote:
> Tiago Souza wrote:
>   
>> Are fonts within our scope? Can we change it? Will we change it? I'm
>> wondering why we are not discussing it..
>>
>> Cheers!
>> 
> I agree.  I generally find the fonts in Ubuntu a little too big and 
> spindly.  I really like the typography in this 
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31128 mockup - second 
> image down especially.  Tactful use of fullcaps & bold are nice.  It 
> also makes things look less cluttered when they are smaller.
>
> We need to be nice to the short-sighted old folks though.  I've found 
> they have quite a lot of problems when it comes to reading small text - 
> maybe an alternate theme the same, but designed for high visibility 
> would be an idea too?
>   
Hi Andrew!
There was a meeting regarding fonts at Ubuntu Developer Summit (and via 
speaker phone). If I recall correctly the consensus was to not change 
the fonts.
I agree that alternative fonts in the interface might look spiffy, but 
readability comes first together with coverage in a massive amount of 
languages.
What would be interesting though is if we could package some cool free 
fonts for content creation (gimp, inkscape, scribus, krita etc.). I 
think Máirín Duffy have been doing some work on that for Fedora [1], 
might be worth checking the status of that and if it can be used for 
Ubuntu as well.

1. http://mihmo.livejournal.com/45152.html
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

xl cheese wrote:
> Speaking of changes to gnome.  I can think of two small ones that 
> would make a huge difference.
>  
> 1.  Ability to add a gradient to the panel bar w/o pixmaping it.
> 2.  Ability to grab a window from both the metacity title bar as well 
> as the blank space on the menubar.  Perhaps even the blank space on 
> the tool bar. 
Hi!
This is on the roadmap for GNOME (although first for 2.24).
http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap/Artwork
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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy gtk theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> On 07/11/2007, *Andreas Nilsson* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> > On 07/11/2007, *Troy James Sobotka* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >
> > I somewhat agree with you. I think Tango is great, but I don't think
> > that it is "Ubuntuish" in any way.
> Hi Mikkel!
>
>
> Hi Andreas! :-)
>  
> I guess the elegance I am looking for is something like (this goes for 
> both icons+gtk+metacity):
>
>  * Touch of realism (not naturalism)
>  * Simplicity
>  * Minimal number of distinct features, both on a per-icon level and 
> the desktop as a whole
>  * Something that you will instantly recognize as Ubuntu
>
> Where I feel Tango takes another direction is specifically in points 1 
> and 4.
Give me some time and I'll do some experiments and see what I can come 
up with.
Ideally it would be great to have something that looked very 
distinctive, but didn't stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of the 
desktop.
> I just want to throw in a frequently found thing in mockups around the 
> web. Monochrome notification icons. Like the ones I attached. I think 
> it is a great way to reduce the visual clutter. Perhaps we could use 
> it even more extensively than that - maybe replace a some of the "less 
> important icons" throughout the desktop with monochrome versions. That 
> could be alternative solution instead to disabling all icons in menus.
I think this is a cool idea and it was something that Lasse, Kenneth and 
myself discussed last week as well.
We need a good solution on how to handle Pidgin status in monochrome 
though. mpt was going to show me how Adium solved it, but we ran out of 
time. :/
We also need a good technical solution on how to solve this. Should the 
notification area pick up it's own set of icons? Or if we just replace 
them in our theme, how do we solve it for banshee/rhythmbox that tends 
to just stick their app icon in the notification area (and yes, that is 
kind of a ugly behavior)?

- Andreas



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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy gtk theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> On 07/11/2007, *Troy James Sobotka* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> 
> 2) The heavy Crayola outlining of all buttons / tabs / etc. is
>completely counter any notion of elegance or grace.  It is perhaps
>the weakest element of Tango, and it simply makes work look
>bold and clunky.  Assuming a general audience, we can assume that
>they can find a button with a fine line.  Please let the caustic
>outlines of Clearlooks / Tango / et al die.  It is just weak.
>
>
>
> I somewhat agree with you. I think Tango is great, but I don't think 
> that it is "Ubuntuish" in any way.
Hi Mikkel!
I'm not sure what kind of elegance you are looking for, but a good point 
for giving a tango-styled icon theme a shot is that is what GNOME 
upstream is using and a whole bunch of 3rd party developers. [1]. I 
haven't seen another style for GNOME with the same coverage yet. I think 
it would be really cool if we could start focusing on the final focus on 
the remaining bits instead of the 12-14 base icons over and over again.
Mike Beltzner recently pointed out that the interface unpredictability 
was the reasoning behind giving Firefox 3 the Vista look on Linux. We're 
working that issue out with them though.
I find the Pages/Numbers interface [2] and the work of Jasper [3] quite 
nice and find it quite elegant.
I guess what I find most attractive about Apple's interfaces is the fact 
that it's clean. No icons in neither menus or pushbuttons and smart 
designed interfaces.

I like the work Kenneth and others have done on Oxygen, but I'm afraid 
it's something that is KDE4 specific and I think the aim is for it to be 
included in Kubuntu in Hardy+1.


1. http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Showroom
2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Pages3.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Numbers.png
3. http://www.jasperhauser.nl/icon/

- Andreas
>
>
> 3) The radius of Patel's buttons is a lovely compliment of both
>subtlety and other features is wonderful.  The subtlety of the
>linework is something to aim for.  Even the buttons could use
>some lightening on the lines.  Metacity 2.0 can even do the windows
>to a similar radii, but the antialiasing makes it rather clunky
>looking.  We would need to resolve this to go with that lovely
>radius on the windows.
>
>
> There is some elegance in the Oxygen screenshot Günther posted here 
> (mostly the top one) 
> http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/2007/11/decisionsdecisionsdecisions-so-many.html
>
> I do not feel ashamed of being inspired by other artists. Both oxygen 
> and openmoko contains some good stuff I think we should let us inspire 
> by. We can still move in an original direction if the original 
> inspiration was found in other work.
>
>
> 4) The uniform Metacity to GTK Patel window is top shelf, even if
> a bit
>OSX.  Another +1 from me.
>
>
> What  image are you refering to here?
>
> 5) I dare say that I disagree with the esteemed MacSlow on the
> point of
>differing radii on the various controls.  Contrast is a wonderful
>thing.  And god knows we have lived long enough in the
> monochromatic
>Ubuntu world.
>
>
> +1 Visual contrast of forms is a way to make the widgets more 
> distinct. Doing it too much results in visual clutter -- needles to say.
>
> 6) Glossy is done like dinner.  It is completely mooky to keep
> following
>that path, as it was way back in Edgy.
>
>
> Sorry, but I don't understand that sentence. Are you for or againt 
> gloss? :-)
>
> Back to work, cheers
> Mikkel
>


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[ubuntu-art] logo for swfdec

[Andreas Nilsson]

Hi all!
I know this isn't specifically related to Ubuntu, but Benjamin Otte is 
looking for a nice logo design for Swfdec and I thought someone 
subscribed to this list might be interested.
http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2007/10/17/hello-artists/

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New member/ Gutsy wallpaper observation.

[Andreas Nilsson]

xl cheese wrote:
> I joined because I was not sure if the ubuntu art team was aware of 
> the commotion regarding the gutsy default wallpaper.  The main 
> complaints are:
> -It's too dark
> -Grainy
> -Looks too much like Vista
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=555477
> 
Hi!
As a background pictures are so simple to make, I'm afraid you will 
never reach a consensus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_bikeshed

"Parkinson shows how you can go into the board of directors and get 
approval for building a multi-million or even billion dollar atomic 
power plant, but if you want to build a bike shed you will be tangled up 
in endless discussions.

Parkinson explains that this is because an atomic plant is so vast, so 
expensive and so complicated that people cannot grasp it, and rather 
than try, they fall back on the assumption that somebody else checked 
all the details before it got this far. Richard P. Feynmann gives a 
couple of interesting, and very much to the point, examples relating to 
Los Alamos in his books.

A bike shed on the other hand. Anyone can build one of those over a 
weekend, and still have time to watch the game on TV. So no matter how 
well prepared, no matter how reasonable you are with your proposal, 
somebody will seize the chance to show that he is doing his job, that he 
is paying attention, that he is /here/."
(from 
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING)

I would prefer to trust Kenneth on his decision.
- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Human vs. Tango

[Andreas Nilsson]

Alex Jones wrote:
>> and overall Human Gtk+, Metacity and Wallpaper theme. Human has nice
>> icons, but often, tiny icon (24x24 and beyond, see menu for example) are
>> really unusable. Tango take tiny icon in account, not Human. Human is
>> quite incomplete, but that's not that easy to build an entire icon set.
>> Human was created by "IconFactory" an opaque structure (individual ?
>> entreprise ?) hired by sabdfl.
>> 
> Imo, Tangerine is very complete and fit very well both with Tango theme
>
> That is a shame. Like I said, I prefer the Human style and would love if
> some style guidelines and palettes were released so that I could, for
> example, "Humanize" the Gossip and Ephy icons.
>   
Hi Alex!
Sorry to hear that my hard work on the Ephy interface in the 2.18 
release will be replaced, but anyway, take a look at this page on the 
gnome-wiki: http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppIcons/EpiphanySpecificIcons.

Similar pages also exist for Evince and File-roller:
http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppIcons/EvinceSpecificIcons
http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppIcons/FileRollerSpecificIcons

Regarding gossip, the theming capability will have to wait a short while 
longer, as there was some dependency on a more recent version of hicolor 
that most distros ship. More info can be found here: 
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=387546
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Re: [ubuntu-art] The shredder icon for delete sucks

[Andreas Nilsson]

Nacho de los Ríos Tormo wrote:
> I profoundly dislike the crumpled paper icon because a) it takes hard 
> observation to deduce it is that and b) it is a confusing metaphor for 
> anybody in any culture, especially when sitting side by side with a 
> trashcan, a red cross and a shredder.
>   
Agree that this combination of icons are quite bad in that case, and 
it's super-hard for application developers to predict this because of 
theming. :(
Where is this btw? Evolution?
> As for the shredder, there are ethnicity, technological and education 
> level issues that make it a very bad metaphor. Shredders are not 
> household items in every country, not everybody in every office has 
> access to one in most places, even if they've seen one and know what it 
> is, and youngsters may have never seen one in their life. On top of 
> being a very bad metaphor, the Tango shredder is a very bad icon, 
> because a shredder itself has not much detail, so after iconification 
> nothing much remains to recocnize it. And the low contrast plays against it.
>   
The old edit-delete icon in tango-icon-theme looked like this: 
http://www.andreasn.se/diverse/temp/tango/22/edit-delete.png
Had to scrap that though, as it looked too much like a warning sign.
Before the warning sign GNOME had a trash can for delete (and 
gnome-icon-theme still use this metaphor) 
http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/gnome-icon-theme/22x22/actions/edit-delete.png?rev=1.1.
That didn't work very well though, as things didn't move to the trash 
when deleting stuff in evolution for example.
Might have been some kind of X before that, but that also looks too much 
as a warning sign and saying "don't do this" mostly.

I believe there can be some extent of learnability of icons in a 
interface, provided that they are not too many symbols to learn.
Someone might have some time looking into the metaphor again after 
Christmas (and perhaps do some user testing, who knows), but I'm afraid 
we're all very busy with other icons at the moment.
Thanks for your time.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] cancel / apply icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

David Prieto wrote:
> Please note that we're asking for their inclusion in Tango, not Human.
>
>> Well I for one find that the Tango icons are remarkably non-Humanish. 
>> Tango icons feel cartoonish and artificial (I mean  this as style 
>> metaphors not critisism, Tango is great) and generally blend in 
>> rather poorly with Human IMO.
>>
>> The old Gnome icons are non-glossy and pixelised so they stand out 
>> quite a bit too. The real solution is to create new icons in the 
>> Human style (as has been done with the Apply icon if I'm not mistaken). 
>
Hey David!
Sorry for the delay before answering this...been off to Boston the last 
couple of days for the Summit and didn't have much time to look in my inbox.
I'll rather wait for tango-icon-theme upstream to fix this issue, I'll 
ping the maintainer about it tonight.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] cancel / apply icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

David Prieto wrote:
> This Launchpad bug provides cancel / apply buttons that could replace 
> the current, dated, ugly ones:
>
> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tangerine-icon-theme/+bug/40607
>
> 
>
> You can see how the proposed cancel icon is a red cross just like the 
> current one, only beautiful. And the apply button is a green tick just 
> like the one we have one, so the metaphors really stay the same.
>
> My question is, is there a really good reason to keep the ones we have 
> now instead of adding those in tango common? Is there a good reason to 
> make our OS look old and dated when it could look just gorgeous? 
Hi David!
First I would like to apologize not only for taking those icons out of 
tango-common, but also for putting them there in the first place.
I decided to take them out, as we received a lot of complains about the 
cancel button.
I came up with the solution that they should live where they belong, in 
tango-icon-theme and gnome-icon-theme (not exactly those icons in g-i-t 
though, but gpl-images rather). They are probably going in quite soon, 
so no need to worry.
I had planned to take care of this earlier, but I got caught up in other 
projects. :(
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Some guidelines for consideration

[Andreas Nilsson]

Chuck Huber wrote:
> On Thu, 2006-08-24 at 10:35 +0100, Who wrote:
>> >
>> >  Note, on Fedora Core 6, the Bluecurve icons are being replaced by what I
>> > think is a very nice new set called "Echo"
>> >  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/EchoDevelopment
>> >
>>
>> They're really great icons - I think they are too glossy in places,
>> but definitely a good update to Bluecurve.
>>
>> I think the fact that they are more realistic than Human) makes them
>> feel more modern. also, more of the icons are drawn on an angle, not
>> just 'flat' on the desk, which I think contributes to the feeling that
>> that is a modern theme for good, shiny computers!
>>
>> 
> Really?  I find echo a bit more cartoonish than Human.  Take the disk 
> drive icons, or CD or printer icons for example.  That's not to say 
> that Human can't be improved by getting more realistic.  I think it 
> can, but the examples below are tough to beat.
>
> That said, I still like echo quite a bit and I think it's a good 
> reference to refer to at times.  It may be especially useful as a 
> guide to see which icons they consider most important for the Gnome 
> desktop experience.
Uhm? Most important for the GNOME desktop?
What about all icons in every application? Yes, that is quite a bunch, 
but I think it's a rather good goal.
Echo are currently even more incomplete than Human, but I guess some 
values some certain ascetics rather than a complete interface.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: Quick Update

[Andreas Nilsson]

Troy James Sobotka wrote:

On Sun, 2006-25-06 at 19:21 +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote:

  
I don't understand why it is so pertinently important to keep Human  
in. In all objectivity, it's simply a suboptimal icon set when  
compared to Tango. I also don't see why any of the arguments that I  
have given have to be ignored.



Again, one man's meat is another man's poison.  There are 
no clear hard and fast rules in art.


The bottom line is that Human is the look.  The icons are heading
in that direction -- hence their name.

The default 'look' for Ubuntu is Human.  Period.  
  
Too bad we wont be able to contribute both to Ubuntu and GNOME upstream 
with Human, but Mark has been kind enough to include Tangerine as the 
fall back theme, so for those who want to contribute to stuff upstream, 
feel free to join the tangerine-effort!
As Tangerine not being the default, well, for consistency sake (like 
having a similar look of all the icons on the entire interface, and 
there is quite a lot of icons in GNOME, a lot) being part of a bigger 
project would be nice, but it's Mark's distro and it's up to him to 
decide what to do.
I'll continue to tinker with Tangerine a bit, but I'll probably do some 
more work directly for the application projects for this cycle.
I personally don't believe in icons as branding, but see them rather as 
interface elements so I don't have any hard feelings about this stuff, 
it's mostly a philosophical thing anyway. :)

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Idea regarding themes

[Andreas Nilsson]

Michiel Sikma wrote:


Op 22-jun-2006, om 15:21 heeft Mark Shuttleworth het volgende geschreven:
It would seem that you're okay with this idea as long as the themes 
adhere to the criteria you listed, but I'm not sure. :)


No, I'm not OK with the idea, because the way it was phrased 
suggested that we should "make them look consistent". They have the 
right to be independent, to make the decisions that are best for 
THEM, and we should not be enforcing "consistency" over their wish to 
be independent. We should propose good ideas, but let the individual 
brands / distros choose the ideas they want to integrate.


Mark


They definitely should have their own identities. You're right, we 
should drop the idea of "making the themes look as similar as 
possible", although I do think it might be a good idea to have all 
different Ubuntu flavors share color schemes. Ubuntu would have its 
default theme in three colors; orange, blue, grey, as would Kubuntu 
and Xubuntu; it's a good way to get some nice different color schemes 
in the distro while giving the other flavors a wink. Of course, that's 
only if the other art team members feel that this is a good idea and 
if the devs of Kubuntu and Xubuntu are up for it.


Otherwise, we could simply make three themes for Ubuntu which use 
orange, blue, and grey, without doing the same for the other flavors.


Michiel
What we do need to do though is to make sure that if I for example 
choose to use kopete under GNOME it should blend in nice with the rest 
of the desktop. In order to do that we need to make sure that 
icon-naming-spec is properly implented on all four(?) desktops and that 
packages like tango-icon-theme-common works properly (and that the 
coverage of gnome-app-icons in crystal is good for that matter).

I'll personally continue working on this for edgy.
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: A Request

[Andreas Nilsson]

Michiel Sikma wrote:


Mark Shuttleworth wrote:

Michiel, thank you for your contributions so far, and I want to  urge 
you

to continue to contribute, using whatever tools work best for you  right
now. As others have written, the use of an open format like SVG or PNG
makes collaboration easier and results in content that does not force
other artists to make the same choices that you did. But I see that  you
understand that.



Thanks. I'm aware of the nature of this project and agree that it's  
useless to contribute art that can't be used without free software. I  
try to keep everything I make in an open format. Thankfully, PNG is  
fully supported, but it's too bad that SVG isn't (in Adobe's  
products). I've looked at the source of SVG files made with  
Illustrator, and it turns out that they look like a complete mess  
sometimes. I don't know how usable such files are.


Here's an example of an SVG saved with Illustrator: http:// 
thingmajig.org/tmp/blocks.svg


I won't use software that cripples the ability for other people to  
continue or make derivatives of my work. It's just too bad that  
proprietary software comes with such limitations. To me, that means I  
won't be contributing in the field of icons, for example, with  
Illustrator. I'll have to try and learn Inkscape for its ability to  
export SVGs.


Hi Michiel!
Feel free to send me a mail or pop by #tango if you need some help with 
creating a good workflow for doing icons in Inkscape.
btw, I feel sorry that you have been so badly treated for using 
closed-source stuff just because some of the free tools are not up for 
the task yet.

- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Artwork team meeting

[Andreas Nilsson]

Pascal Klein wrote:


Fair enough. And because we really need to go underway I'm just going to
propose a time and see what people think. Just say yes or no if you
can't make it.

Saturday June 17, 16:00 UTC.
 


Sounds good to me. Let´s do it!
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: Andreas - DEV CYCLE: TARGETS

[Andreas Nilsson]

Billy wrote:


On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 18:34 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:


Troy James Sobotka wrote:


On Sat, 2006-10-06 at 14:54 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

 

A theme could then consist of 4-5 of these special icons, but in the 
same style as the regular theme, to not look out of place.
Only computer/art nerds worry about if the icon theme has a tilted 
folder, some extra gloss or whatever.

- Andreas

   



I think this is a terrific idea if we can somehow manage to 
use existing themes out there.  If you know of a way to 
collect a list, or perhaps begin one at the wiki, it

would be a wonderful way to add diversity without taxing
our already limited time commitments.

Great idea Andreas.  Thanks.
 

Thomas Wood (of art.gnome.org fame) and myself started this some time 
ago, but we had to put it on ice, as we both got hooked up in other 
projects. This is just a rough start and it can be totally improved.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/PlusPack
- Andreas

   

A complete Tango/Tangerine would be nice before venturing out. As long 
as it takes, I don't see how anyone could suggest other icon themes, 
especially after having icon themes cut from us on dapper. Lets keep 
it realistic and managable. Completing the already mentioned 2 or 3 
will be more than enough. Don't lower the quality by added more, when 
more than 3 isn't even an option and Mark wants 2 before attempting 3.
-Billy 


This is not the regular wild and crazy 1000+ icon-sets. I´m talking of 
sets with 4-5 icons, tops. They would of course be in tango-style in 
order to blend in with the rest of the desktop. This would not have to 
go into main, but could live in universe instead to save space on the 
install cd.
I totally agree with you that something like this will be a bit further 
down the priority list, but if someone feels like doing it on their 
spare time, that would be kind of cool. Personally I´ll be  putting all 
my efforts on Tango (mostly application icons and probably a complete 
tangofication of a couple of apps) for this release.

- Andreas

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[ubuntu-art] Re: Andreas - DEV CYCLE: TARGETS

[Andreas Nilsson]

Troy James Sobotka wrote:


On Sat, 2006-10-06 at 14:54 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

 

A theme could then consist of 4-5 of these special icons, but in the 
same style as the regular theme, to not look out of place.
Only computer/art nerds worry about if the icon theme has a tilted 
folder, some extra gloss or whatever.

- Andreas

   



I think this is a terrific idea if we can somehow manage to 
use existing themes out there.  If you know of a way to 
collect a list, or perhaps begin one at the wiki, it

would be a wonderful way to add diversity without taxing
our already limited time commitments.

Great idea Andreas.  Thanks.
 

Thomas Wood (of art.gnome.org fame) and myself started this some time 
ago, but we had to put it on ice, as we both got hooked up in other 
projects. This is just a rough start and it can be totally improved.

http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/PlusPack
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] DEV CYCLE: TARGETS

[Andreas Nilsson]

Who wrote:


Items I've added have an @ preceeding them
-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Targets for Edgy:

*  USplash
*  GDM Logon
*  GDM Splash
*  GNOME Wallpaper
*  Window Color / Theme
@ GTK Theme (probably incremental improvements on Human)
@ KDE Theme that integrates well with the GTK Theme
@ Panel bg image (if it improves the general look and feel - it's so 
easy)

*  Mouse Cursors
*  Selective Icons
Icons are a massive undertaking, but I believe
that Frank has highlighted some good areas that
we could get minor adjustments in for a more
cohesive look and feel.

@ Same icons for KDE and Gnome to increase cohesiveness
@ Get additional icon themes included


I have a small comment about the additional icon themes. What about 
making icon themes for normal people, like Bobby who is ten years old 
and that is facinated by space and would like to become a austronaut 
when he grows up, or George who is 35 years old and like football?
Here is Everaldos redskins set to illustrate what I mean: 
http://everaldo.com/portfolio/bottons/gui/RedSkins.html
A theme could then consist of 4-5 of these special icons, but in the 
same style as the regular theme, to not look out of place.
Only computer/art nerds worry about if the icon theme has a tilted 
folder, some extra gloss or whatever.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Artwork team meeting

[Andreas Nilsson]

Sounds great to me!
We really need a meeting.
- Andreas

Pascal Klein wrote:


On Sat, 2006-06-10 at 14:20 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote:
 


Hey folks.

It's about time we coordinate this meeting for the Artwork team. We hope
for it to be possibly on a weekend, preferably within the next week or
so. Suggested dates are:

Saturday 17, June
Sunday 18, June
   



And Jerome Gotangco just reminded me that on that weekend many people
will probably be starting making their way to Paris. Perhaps
Thursday/Friday that week might be more applicable?

Cheers.

 


But of course if people can't make it and are available during the week
we can schedule it for then.

As Mark's attendence for this meeting is important I've also cced this
to Claire, by suggestion from Mark. Claire, Mark, what time would be
best?


Kind regards,
Pascal



   




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Re: [ubuntu-art] Human or Tangerine for Dapper by default?

[Andreas Nilsson]

Who wrote:

The good thing about the Tangerine development was that we can now start
sending stuff upstream to GNOME and the developers behind the different
applications that have been fixed up. This can't be done with Human, so


Can you explain that please? :)

As GNOME follows the same guidelines as Tangerine does, when we in the 
ubuntu-art team has made new icons for stuff like log-viewer, the 
gst-tools, gnome-applets and various other applications we have at the 
same time made a great attribution to the artwork in the GNOME project.
Now as things have settled down with Dapper we can start sending those 
things off to the developers behind those modules in GNOME and share the 
love from ubuntu to the rest of the community.

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Human or Tangerine for Dapper by default?

[Andreas Nilsson]

Who wrote:

On 5/26/06, Jean Pierre Rupp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It seems Dapper still comes with the ugly Human icons by default instead
of the much more streamlined Tangerine set. Which is the one that will
be in Dapper by default at the end?.



Mark was pretty clear on this here:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-May/001392.html

I think it is a shame (well, actually, I only really dislike the
folders), but I also think that getting someone to develop an entire
icon theme from scratch, with the sole intention of it being the
Dapper theme and then abandoning it 4 days before release would be
unproductive and harsh! The Tangerine guys have been doing a great job
orangifying Tango, but it was always as an addtional theme and it is
also intrinsically less original than Human...

Tangerine is available, and is the default icon theme for at least one
of the new metathemes :)

The good thing about the Tangerine development was that we can now start 
sending stuff upstream to GNOME and the developers behind the different 
applications that have been fixed up. This can't be done with Human, so 
making stuff original  is not always a good thing.
Anyway, it's been a fun ride and I hope to be able to pick up the 
discussion on icons after Dapper has been released. But fow, Mark has 
made his choice this time and after all, it's his distro.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)

[Andreas Nilsson]

Viper550 wrote:


But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork 
to be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which 
should stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of 
artwork in Edgy to be original, not based off anything, built from 
scratch. I've been concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not 
had 100% original Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial 
and a theme based off Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks 
engine, but still that Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do 
have an original Theme engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand 
new original icon set (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" 
metacity is based off ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% 
original stuff?! And I can even tell the difference between Human 
Metacity and ClearLooks 2 Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even 
worse, we had several GREAT metacity suggestions on the wiki that we 
completely ignored!


There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath...

Viper550
Why reinvent the wheel a bazillion times just because something is Not 
Invented Here[tm]?
Perhaps it should be a nice idea to start polishing other parts of the 
interface during Edgy. There are lots of stuff that needs a lot of love 
from talented artists, both in Ubuntu and on the free desktop in general.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Meeting proposal

[Andreas Nilsson]

Pascal Klein wrote:

Hello art team,

With our organisational problems laid out to us by Mark and numerous
other people I think we should consider getting our act together to
identify those with leadership skills so that we, the art team can
direct our efforts and skills in a cooperative manner and some rocking
artwork done for edgy!

Edgy will be the release, where unless I am mistaken, the art team has
the chance to look after a lot more of the main artwork, so even more
reason to get together early and assign some common goals, dates, and
identify persons within the team with specific interests.

So, in order to get this happening, how does a meeting sound? I propose
the day of Sunday the 28th, May or Saturday the 3rd, June.

Times are open at this point because I am not very familiar with the
timezone issues and where the bulk of the team are situated in the
world. Do we have some common suggestions in regard to this?


Thank you,
Pascal Klein
  
Is it possible to do this on a date after Dapper has been released and 
things have had some time to settle down a bit?
Personally, I need some time to send stuff from tango-icon-theme-common 
to projects upstream before starting to plan for Edgy. I also bet there 
will be some reviews of Dapper if we wait just a week or so after the 
release.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] PLANNING: Contact List

[Andreas Nilsson]

Étienne Bersac wrote:

Hello,

One week ago, the Art Team on launchpad was empty.
  

Huh?
I must have totally missed this stuff in Launchpad.
I'll locate it and add myself right away.
- Andreas

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[ubuntu-art] [Fwd: Tango Icons for Firefox (Ubuntu)]

[Andreas Nilsson]

--- Begin Message ---
Hi!I just stumbled across the ubuntu-art mailing list and found some discussion about the Firefox theme going on:Andreas Nilsson wrote:
Hi Frank!The firefox theme called Tango Icons [1] is quite a nice theme to work upon. Nico Kaiser and Garrett LeSage made a really nice looking theme that goes very well together with Tangerine and Human. Replacing stuff 
like the arrows, folders and other stuff with the ones from Tangerine will be a easy job.Also, there seems to exist a patch to make firefox pick up the icons from the normal icon theme [2]- Andreas
Frank Schoep wrote:I found some time to tinker with the icons tonight and I can already share the 
following screenshot (it's a real theme, not GIMPed):http://www.ffnn.nl/media/external/ubuntu/firefox-main-human-icons.png
 The current version of the Tango Firefox theme already has some Tangerine icons built in, they just have to be activated. I can either modify the theme to use the Tangerine icons or create a new theme based on the current Tango theme...
(Sorry for mailing directly to you, I don't have subscribed the ubuntu-art list)Nico.
--- End Message ---
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Suggestion: Orangify The Default Desktop

[Andreas Nilsson]

Lukas Sabota wrote:

Hello!
There are a few icons that are displayed on the default desktop.  I'll
list them here:
Applications
Mozilla-Firefox
Evolution
Log out
Show Desktop
Trash

My idea is to theme some of these icons orange.  Here is a suggestion
for each of these:
Applications - Already Orange
Mozilla Firefox - Use the Human Internet orange globe.
Evolution - Use an orange clock in the icon rather than a white one.
Volume Control - Would fit fine how it is.
Log out - Would fit fine how it is.
Show Desktop - Perhaps orange corners could be used instead of the
current blue ones.
Trash - The trashcan has just recently been changed orange :)  No more
battery!  This would fit fine.

What do other artists think of this idea?

God bless,
Lukas
  

Hi Lukas!
The only problem as I see with this is that it is a nice thing to be 
able to tell the icons apart by color as well as shape. Branding can 
sometimes get in the way of good interfaces I'm afraid...

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] New Default About Me Icon

[Andreas Nilsson]

Lukas Sabota wrote:

Currently, the default About me icon is a little tiny white guy.  This
does not scale well, and looks very poor on the Lock Screen dialog.
I've attached a (quick) image that could replace the little white guy:
the Ubuntu logo.  This is a 64x64 png image, unlike the 32x32 white guy
that is stretched to 64x64 in the lock dialog.  Some refinements would
need to be done to the image to make it look less blurry, but I feel
that the Ubuntu logo would make for a better default About Me picture.
Reply with comments.
  
I thought about-me was for info about yourself, hence the icon of a 
person. I don't see how the icon for some distro would help there, and 
the logo is elsewhere in the menus, like for about ubuntu.
I might be mistaken, but I think the icon are avaible in the sizes 
16x16, 22x22 and scalable (48x48), so a better idea would probably be to 
use the scalable size in the dialog. Could you please send a screenshot 
of the lock screen dialog?

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tang{o,erine} Extras?

[Andreas Nilsson]

Andreas Nilsson wrote:

Daniel Holbach wrote:

Lapo and Andreas suggested to create "tango extras" or whatever we'd
like to call it, to provide icons, that would work with both themes. We
could make both packages (tango-icon-theme and tangerine-icon-them)
depend on that extras package and we'd all be happy again.

  
So, now we need a list of what stuff should stay in tangerine and what 
should be put in this extras/applications/whatever-package.

Hi all!
With the great help of Daniel, Tangerine is now broken up into 
tangerine-icon-theme and tango-icon-theme-common. Tangerine for the 
ubuntu-specific stuff  (brown and orange) and Common for the other 
stuff. This makes xubuntu look good as well, yay!
Launchpad for tango-icon-theme-common is here: 
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tango-icon-theme-common/+bugs

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Deadline for community art: May 15

[Andreas Nilsson]

Billy wrote:

On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 20:46 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

bvc wrote:
> Overall I like the Human icons and it's probably because of the 
> shadows. It actually has a shadow and not some unprofessional round 
> thing popping out from underneath it, like the svg icons do. For this 
> reason alone, Tango and Tangerine are a mess and makes them 
> distracting and ugly! If you look at my screenshots with tango and 
> tangerine you will see realistic, 'professional' svg shadows.

>
> Billy
Ok, fixed in tango cvs now (thanks jimmac!). I must admit that I never 
quite liked the tone in your complains about the shadows, but anyway, 
now it's fixed.
We're planning on moving over to svg-filters for the shadows once they 
are properly implented in Inkscape and when librsvg (almost there) and 
ksvg2 renders them perfectly. AndyFitz actually made it working by 
inserting a class into a svg file by hand, so it's not that far away. I 
really own that man a beer.

Will take care of the shadows in Tangerine sometime this weekend.
Take care!
- Andreas

I'm happy to see improvement! Might want to consider another important 
aspect in icons. Perspective. With the gradients in Tango and 
Tangerine, it's obvious they are not intented to be 2d/flat icons. 
Adding the perspective element to the shadows has everything to do 
with not ending up with icons in between 2d/flat and 3d/life and 
therefore unprofessional.


Open them in tabs and click between them.
*Mine*
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/icons/Tango/Tango-SH.png 
<http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/%7Ebvc/dapper-xubu/icons/Tango/Tango-SH.png>

-Folder shadow angles in the direction the folder is facing
-Computer icon has a shadow that is consistent with the folder
-script icon has a diamond with a shadow that places it infront, 
making it complete.
-exec icons on the desktop have a diamond shadow laying down behind it 
(seem I over did it a little) What is round about a diamond?
-toolbar icons (old) are standing up instead of having a haze around 
half of them.

Nice.
Where can I get hold of the svg's?
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Deadline for community art: May 15

[Andreas Nilsson]

bvc wrote:
Overall I like the Human icons and it's probably because of the 
shadows. It actually has a shadow and not some unprofessional round 
thing popping out from underneath it, like the svg icons do. For this 
reason alone, Tango and Tangerine are a mess and makes them 
distracting and ugly! If you look at my screenshots with tango and 
tangerine you will see realistic, 'professional' svg shadows.


Billy
Ok, fixed in tango cvs now (thanks jimmac!). I must admit that I never 
quite liked the tone in your complains about the shadows, but anyway, 
now it's fixed.
We're planning on moving over to svg-filters for the shadows once they 
are properly implented in Inkscape and when librsvg (almost there) and 
ksvg2 renders them perfectly. AndyFitz actually made it working by 
inserting a class into a svg file by hand, so it's not that far away. I 
really own that man a beer.

Will take care of the shadows in Tangerine sometime this weekend.
Take care!
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Deadline for community art: May 15

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
Tangerine has the advantage of (a) being based on Tango, which starts 
with SVG's for everything and has design in place, and (b) being 
developed by folks who work with Gnome and KDE themes regularly so can 
test it in place.


Unfortunately, I don't believe that Tango has the level of design 
quality in place that we need for the best theme for Ubuntu. I just 
don't like the Tango icons. And 22x22 (as well as other decisions) are 
IMO poor choices.  Tangerine is therefor somewhat limited. Ideally, we 
want better icons, with a better toolchain process for Human.
First of all, I would like to thank you that both Tangerine and Tango 
was accepted into main.
As I've probably mentioned earlier the guidelines are not set in stone 
in any way and feedback from Canonial  regarding the naming-spec, the 
style guidelines and other stuff is more than welcome. But anyway, I 
hope we can discuss this again further down the road when we don't have 
a deadline a couple of days away.


So, my opinion is that it would be unwise to change default theme so 
close to the release, therefore I say stick to Human for now, as it's 
quite easy to change to Tangerine on a fresh install for those who wish 
to do so.
Glad to hear that so many people like the hard work that have been put 
into tango and tangerine and support the idea of a consistent interface 
for the free desktop!

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Dialogs icon and tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:

Andreas Nilsson wrote:

I think it would be very bad to maintain the old gtk icons for
apply,cancel,yes,no,etc, but it also would be bad to use the red icon
for tabs.


Firefox uses a red [x] by default for tab closure.

Might look a bit weird in a button, but I'll try it.
Thanks for the tip!
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Dialogs icon and tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

Josué Alcalde González wrote:

El mié, 10-05-2006 a las 01:08 +0200, Andreas Nilsson escribió:
  

Josué Alcalde González wrote:


Last update of tangerine has included some new icons for dialog actions.

The icons included in last update use this metaphor:
 http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/screenshot-228701000.jpg 
with a red close icon.


The icons are:
- cancel: a yellow rounded back arrow 
- apply: a green v

- yes: ?
- no: ?
- close: a red x
- accept: a blue intro icon

I have made the needed links and I have seen some problems:

The close icon is red. It is used in a lot of places (tabs for gedit,
epiphany and console, close button in notifications, close in lists..)
I think red doesn't fit very well in those places, but the biggest
problem is that it is resized and looks very bad in epiphany and
console, and worst in gedit and notifications bubbles.
  
  
The problem is that the name of the icon in the icon-naming-spec is 
dialog-close and is intended for the action "The icon used for the Close 
button that might appear in dialog windows.". The use of the 
dialog-close icon in epiphany and gedit is therefore a bit improper. A 
specific icon for closing tabs would be much better in that case.

- Andreas




Yes, but will it be changed to dapper?
Is any solution planed for it?

I think it would be very bad to maintain the old gtk icons for
apply,cancel,yes,no,etc, but it also would be bad to use the red icon
for tabs.
  

Hm, you're right about that.
Need to fix a short-term solution then.
Can you file a bug about it, I'll forget about it otherwise.
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Dialogs icon and tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

Josué Alcalde González wrote:

Last update of tangerine has included some new icons for dialog actions.

The icons included in last update use this metaphor:
 http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/screenshot-228701000.jpg 
with a red close icon.


The icons are:
- cancel: a yellow rounded back arrow 
- apply: a green v

- yes: ?
- no: ?
- close: a red x
- accept: a blue intro icon

I have made the needed links and I have seen some problems:

The close icon is red. It is used in a lot of places (tabs for gedit,
epiphany and console, close button in notifications, close in lists...)
I think red doesn't fit very well in those places, but the biggest
problem is that it is resized and looks very bad in epiphany and
console, and worst in gedit and notifications bubbles.
  
The problem is that the name of the icon in the icon-naming-spec is 
dialog-close and is intended for the action "The icon used for the Close 
button that might appear in dialog windows.". The use of the 
dialog-close icon in epiphany and gedit is therefore a bit improper. A 
specific icon for closing tabs would be much better in that case.

- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tang{o,erine} Extras?

[Andreas Nilsson]

Daniel Holbach wrote:

Hello everybody,

before outlining the plan and asking you for comments, I want to thank
you all for your work in the Ubuntu Art team. The impact tangerine had
on people in the community is enormous. It was never as easy to get
involved as it is now and the rising amount of new icons counts as an
evidence for that.

However, there's a problem we should try to fix asap: every added icon
to Tangerine might be something we could like to have Tango as well.
This is especially problematic for the Xubuntu guys: they use Tango as
default and might want to have some app icons as well.

Lapo and Andreas suggested to create "tango extras" or whatever we'd
like to call it, to provide icons, that would work with both themes. We
could make both packages (tango-icon-theme and tangerine-icon-them)
depend on that extras package and we'd all be happy again.

Can anybody see complications with that? How would you call such a
package?

Thanks for your help.

Have a nice day,
 Daniel

  

Hi everyone!
Ok, we need to do this as soon as possible. Whatever we call the 
package, it needs to created right away, as the deadline for Dapper is 
getting closer every day.
So, now we need a list of what stuff should stay in tangerine and what 
should be put in this extras/applications/whatever-package. If someone 
could go over tangerine and write a list of stuff that needs to be moved 
it would be great!
Note that this package would hopefully be a short term solution and 
specific application icons should be pushed upstream at some point and 
live in hicolor instead. Now we need to focus on making Dapper looking 
good though.

Does everyone agree with this idea?
- Andreas



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Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: Default themes

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:

Most Important things first (in random order):

1) I generally think we should avoid pixmap themes all together. They 
bring my box to its knees :-S, I will not comment on them here.


2) I think that all included themes should have some kind of Ubuntu 
feel to it. Not entirely brown or orange necesarily, but maybe a 
hint... In some cases green can do the trick too.


3) I think we should put suggestions on some wikipages

4) Please put screenshot links in your mails/wikipages like bvc just did

5) Suggesting a wallpaper in the theme is a nice to touch to make a 
complete experience. I think all themes should do that [1].


6) A theme should not be included just because its cool. It should 
compliment the other themes nicely, providing a coherent set of 
_different_ themes.

7) Having a matching theme for kde perhaps?
There is a lot of nice apps written in qt.
- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] What about Firefox?

[Andreas Nilsson]

Frank Schoep wrote:

Color mismatch in dialogs using default Human theme:
https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/39264

Inconsistent (unthemed) icons in toolbar:
https://launchpad.net/bugs/42265

Toolbar display should be "Icons and text" for consistency:
https://launchpad.net/bugs/42263

Download progress bar misaligned on (de)select using default Human theme:
https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/39269

I wouldn't be so nitpicky if Firefox wasn't a major application having a 
quick-launch icon by default. I think a large portion of the userbase is 
bound to see and use Firefox on a regular basis, so I'm going over it with a 
comb to find any issues with it. The Epiphany browser does not have any of 
the issues described above.


Why am I telling you this? Because I want to work on a solution, possibly 
starting with the first bug first. The bugs I listed are cosmetic, so I 
guessed ubuntu-art would be a good place to start.
  

Hi Frank!
The firefox theme called Tango Icons [1] is quite a nice theme to work 
upon. Nico Kaiser and Garrett LeSage made a really nice looking theme 
that goes very well together with Tangerine and Human. Replacing stuff 
like the arrows, folders and other stuff with the ones from Tangerine 
will be a easy job.
Also, there seems to exist a patch to make firefox pick up the icons 
from the normal icon theme [2]

- Andreas

1. https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/1565/
2. 
http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/devel/firefox/firefox-RC1-stock-icons-fe.patch?rev=1.1&view=auto

http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/devel/firefox/firefox-RC1-stock-icons-gnomestripe.patch?rev=1.1&view=auto

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine Icon Request: Check-mark and Red-X

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:

On Wed, 2006-04-12 at 13:12 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

Josué Alcalde González wrote:


> The cancel and close icon have been made from scratch.
> I have take a look to the go-down, go-up and similar for the the lights

> and borders, and of course, they use the tango palette.
>
>   
Hi!
Here are dialog-ok and dialog-cancel in 22x22 and 16x16 as well. I'm not 

sure what to do with your dialog-apply, it looks very similar to 
dialog-close. It would be cool if we could use something else, but I'll 

see if I can do your version in the small sizes anyway, it's better than 
nothing.

I'll make sure that this goes in either tango-icon-theme or tangerine.

http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/okncancel.tar.gz 
<http://ramnet.se/%7Enisse/diverse/temp/tango/okncancel.tar.gz>



I still have the old pixelated Ok and Cancel icons... Have I borked my 
icon theme or are these icons not in the repos yet?

Hi!
I wanted to have dialog-close and dialog-apply aswell before putting it 
in, and Ulisse Perusin just gave them to me on irc, so these are going 
in tonight. Hope to put them in tango-icon-theme soon instead, as it is 
there they belong (and so xubuntu can make use of them as well).

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

Senectus . wrote:
n 4/20/06, *Petr Tomeš* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
wrote:


>
> The tangerine icons are SPECTACULAR: brilliant work. Please get them
> into human as default They do a great job on toning down the
bright
> orange, and are very pretty and intuitive too.

Hi all!
I fully agree with this and I fully support the effort to get
tangerine icons into Human as default. Many our users on
forum.ubuntu.cz  have very positive
response to them because the are
reasonable toned down and they better fit overall colour scheme and
style.

I agree that they're pretty darn kickass.. but the problem is that 
it's not yet complete, many of the icons don't appear to be in the 
current version.
As bvc already mentioned, it is because those are in Tango, but as the 
tangerine-icon-theme package don't depend on the tango-icon-theme 
package, you have to install it manually. Perhaps that is a bit 
confusing and maybe we should make it a dependency. It would be great if 
you could file a bug on this.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

bvc wrote:
 On top of that, Tango is not 'complete' as people expect, in the 
insane 300 to 500 icon's in an icon theme gnome world.

Oops, forgot to answer this part...
Our goal is not to make a theme with 500+ icons in it, because that is a 
insane amount of icons and is more or less impossible to maintain. The 
gnome-icon-theme maintainers have started doing this recently and are 
making projects ship icons with the app instead and put in hicolor, that 
a theme can then override, so we're taking the same approach for 
tangerine, as both tangerine, tango and gnome-icon-theme is now 
following the same style guidelines. Tangerine is currently including a 
couple of application icons, but as soon as those are shipped with the 
apps instead, they will be removed from the icon-theme.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

bvc wrote:



*/"Senectus ." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:

n 4/20/06, *Petr Tome�* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>
> The tangerine icons are SPECTACULAR: brilliant work. Please
get them
> into human as default They do a great job on toning down
the bright
> orange, and are very pretty and intuitive too.

I agree that they're pretty darn kickass.. but the problem is that
it's not yet complete, many of the icons don't appear to be in the
current version.


First realize it is not supposed to be independent/complete and 
inherits missing icons from Tango. The problem is that many icons that 
are not in tango are not displayed. Every theme that uses this new 
freedesktop standard does this. Icons are there but are not used. It 
also can't seem to properly use 16x16 in the toolbar, everywhere, 
consistently
Lapo fixed the issue with some of the 16x16 icons the other day, but 
Daniel just hasn't uploaded it yet (it was my fault, I fucked up the 
name of a makefile). Hope we can fix the naming-spec issues soon.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] tangerine

[Andreas Nilsson]

Joao Inacio wrote:

I love the folder icons for tangerine, but the new menu icons that
recently showed up in the human theme are great.

Are these two beeing incorporated into one single theme?

(sorry if this is a dumb question, just joined the list and only had a
quick look at the archives)

thanks
Well, the approach we had when we first started working on tangerine was 
to redo the Human icons, but in tango-style, in order to make it blend 
in with application icons from apps following the tango style guidelines 
(and more and more projects is starting to do that). I'm not sure I 
personally agree that the new menu icons in Human is that great, but 
I'll look into it.

- Andreas

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[ubuntu-art] Tangerine-icon-theme is now in launchpad

[Andreas Nilsson]

Thanks to Daniel, tangerine-icon-theme is now in launchpad.
Feel free to file bugs or fix the ones that appear.
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tangerine-icon-theme/
Yay for Daniel!
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Request for Espresso icon

[Andreas Nilsson]

Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:

On di, 2006-04-18 at 05:20 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote:

  

http://klepas.org/temp/espresso.png
http://klepas.org/temp/system-installer.png



I like the first one - it may look bad at 22x22 though...
  

Seems like the bug is closed now. Great work Pascal!
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wireless signal icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
Community guys - Tangerine is looking great! Let's focus on priorities 
6-8 in the http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ list, so we can maximise 
the total effective coverage of Human/Tango icons.

Nice to hear that our work is appreciated.
Hats of to Daniel for helping me getting started on this!
I'll try to apply Jakubs icons for powermanager [1] into tangerine ASAP 
(need to fix up the svg's for the missing ones though) as it seems many 
of these icons have priority 10.
I just uploaded the gaim icon, so all of priority 8 will be in 
tango-style as soon as Daniel can package them (perhaps gnome-mime-image 
needs to be un-blued...). Priority 6 and 7 won't be a problem either.
Hopefully we can start removing some of the app-icons in tangerine soon, 
as more and more of them will make it upstream.

- Andreas

1. http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=PowerManager

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Re: [ubuntu-art] distributor-logo

[Andreas Nilsson]

bvc wrote:

For consistency, the distributor-logo.png needs shadow.
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/dapper-xubu/distributor-logo.png 



the start-here icon in tangerine use a shadow in the 22x22 size, but I'm 
not sure where distributor-logo is fetched from. If it's in hicolor or 
in g-i-t, icon-naming-utils needs to be fixed to include that one (or we 
could just replace distributor-logo with the one from tangerine or 
something).

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] tango icons request

[Andreas Nilsson]

Sebastian Heinlein wrote:

hello beloved artists and designers,

it would be nice to have a tangerine icon for the update-manager and the
software properties, too. the tango one seems to be too generic and the
current one can be hardly identified at small sizes.
  

By the tango-one, do you mean this one?
http://tango-project.org/static/cvs/tango-icon-theme/scalable/apps/system-software-update.png
And by the current one you mean the ubuntu-disc and the globe, right?
Just to get clear on what icons we are talking about (it's easy to mix 
stuff up).


Anyway, I'll try to get the one from tango into tangerine asap (as there 
are currently two actions in the Administration menu using the 
disc-and-globe icon and that is pretty confusing), and if anything 
better shows up I'll use that instead.

- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine Icon Request: Check-mark and Red-X

[Andreas Nilsson]

Josué Alcalde González wrote:

El dom, 09-04-2006 a las 23:03 +0200, Sebastian Heinlein escribió:
  

If someone send me some graphics for those actions I can put them
  
in 


tangerine right away and probably in tango-icon-theme aswell. I
  
would be 


happy to receive them in both 16x16, 22x22 and scalable, but if
  
someone 


provides me with the scalable variants only, I can probably fix them
  
up 


in the small sizes.
- Andreas
  

I have made them.
They are only svg. I don't have too experience with gimp, and I think
someone with more skills should make 16x16 and 22x22 icons.
The ok icon is based on the yasis gtk-ok contour. I think it has the
correct angle.
The cancel and close icon have been made from scratch.
I have take a look to the go-down, go-up and similar for the the lights
and borders, and of course, they use the tango palette.

  

Hi!
Here are dialog-ok and dialog-cancel in 22x22 and 16x16 as well. I'm not 
sure what to do with your dialog-apply, it looks very similar to 
dialog-close. It would be cool if we could use something else, but I'll 
see if I can do your version in the small sizes anyway, it's better than 
nothing.

I'll make sure that this goes in either tango-icon-theme or tangerine.
http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/okncancel.tar.gz
- Andreas


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine in universe (and some general comments on all artwork)

[Andreas Nilsson]

Pascal Klein wrote:

On Thu, 2006-04-06 at 02:10 +0200, Étienne Bersac wrote:world has never seen !



Also, Tango has good base for helping choosing a good color. http:// 
tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines . Those guys rox. They  
did a great work. We MUST base our artwork on those good Guidelines.



We can't follow the Tango guidelines completely. Realise that the Tango
Desktop Project aims to bring a consistent look to the Linux desktop,
emphasis on the 'a'. It will not be the only, I certainly hope not.

The Tango icon set is the first icon set to use the freedesktop.org icon
naming specificiation and I hope that other icon sets in the future will
adhere to this standard as well. This should not however extend
necessarily to the guidelines on other icon sets. That is what makes
them different. Tangerine does not need to adhere completely to the
Tango guidelines, just like Human and Blue Curve do not.
  
Um, yes tangerine does actually adhere to the tango style guidelines 
completely. Tangerine takes all the colors from the tango palette, has 
the correct inner and outer stroke etc. and all the other stuff outlined 
in the style guide (and therefore makes it blend in well with other 
icons using the guidelines, yay!). There is nowhere in the tango 
guidelines that say that all icons must be blue and that they can't be 
brown, tangerine-icon-theme just makes more use of the orange and 
chocolate shades, while tango-icon-theme has made more use of sky blue 
and chameleon colors. [1]
But yes, you are correct that tango-icon-theme is just a icon set using 
both the naming-spec and the style guide.

- Andreas

1. http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Color_Palette


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine Icon Request: Check-mark and Red-X

[Andreas Nilsson]

Josué Alcalde González wrote:

El dom, 09-04-2006 a las 23:03 +0200, Sebastian Heinlein escribió:
  

If someone send me some graphics for those actions I can put them
  
in 


tangerine right away and probably in tango-icon-theme aswell. I
  
would be 


happy to receive them in both 16x16, 22x22 and scalable, but if
  
someone 


provides me with the scalable variants only, I can probably fix them
  
up 


in the small sizes.
- Andreas
  

I have made them.
They are only svg. I don't have too experience with gimp, and I think
someone with more skills should make 16x16 and 22x22 icons.
The ok icon is based on the yasis gtk-ok contour. I think it has the
correct angle.
The cancel and close icon have been made from scratch.
I have take a look to the go-down, go-up and similar for the the lights
and borders, and of course, they use the tango palette.
  
Can you do those in 22x22 and 16x16 as well, or do you want me to take 
care of that?

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine Icon Request: Check-mark and Red-X

[Andreas Nilsson]

Sebastian Heinlein wrote:

Am Sonntag, den 09.04.2006, 22:14 +0200 schrieb Mikkel Kamstrup
Erlandsen:
  

On Sat, 2006-04-08 at 21:21 +0200, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:


This is espicially obvious in Synaptic... The green Apply check-mark
icon is heavily pixelized - as is the red X in Cancel buttons. This just
looks totally out of place in between otherwise antialised icons.

Since I've long ago realized that I suck at making icons, I just hope
that some one could do my eyes a favor ;-P
  

Just to be precise, I'm talking about the stock_apply and stock_cancel
icons.

In a desperate attempt to change the situation myself, I've been
grepping and browsing /usr/share/icons/{gnome,hicolor}, but have not
found the relevant icons...

Can anyone give me a hint as to where to look?

Cheers
Mikkel



They are inside the gtk library. Just add a gtk-apply, gtk-apply or
gtk-ok icon and it will be used instead of the hardcoded default icons.

But I don't know why there are no corresponding icons in the Tango theme
for the cancel, ok and apply button. I think that they are the most used
ones.

Sebastian

  
Those actions are in the Icon Naming Specification, but is not yet in 
tango-icon-theme because no one has drawn them yet. The actions are 
dialog-cancel, dialog-close and dialog-ok.
If someone send me some graphics for those actions I can put them in 
tangerine right away and probably in tango-icon-theme aswell. I would be 
happy to receive them in both 16x16, 22x22 and scalable, but if someone 
provides me with the scalable variants only, I can probably fix them up 
in the small sizes.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Tangerine in universe

[Andreas Nilsson]

Josué Alcalde González wrote:

El jue, 06-04-2006 a las 00:09 +0200, Ricardo Pérez López escribió:
  

El mié, 05-04-2006 a las 23:52 +0200, Étienne Bersac escribió:


Hello,


  

He also note that "ssh", "ftp" are disturbing. Especially for tiny
icons. The sharp orange label are too agressive.
  
I like the tangerine icons, but I don't agree with the above. I  
like the

"ssh", "ftp" and others, because it's informative and (IMHO) isn't
disturbing.

Remember that's just an extern point of view, my father's one. Who is  
clueless of smb, dav, ftp and friends, even if he use oftenly smb. He  
is going to use dav and even ssh as it just appear in his file  
manager with avahi/zeroconf. The anduilos icon is the Mac OS X ssh  
server on my iMac (named anduilos). User prefer "bersace's public  
file" instead of ssh, and other technical stuffs. That's just a fact.
  

Yes, I'm with you in that. Maybe we could think in a solution which mix
the two point of views (newbie and intermediate/advanced).


I also appreciate info label for protocols and formats (odt, etc.),  
but i dislike the orange used for those label. Far too sharp. I also  
dislike the text in 16x16 icons. That's just annoying.
  

Mmmm... What about brown or dark-yellow for that?



What I would prefer is brown folders, because there is too much orange
in my desktop and my nautilus.
It is the same of title bars. They were too orange at first, and know
they are brown again. I include a folder example.

About labels, I would prefer small icons to show the type of file:
- a blue W in a blue square for ms word files.
- a green X in a green square for excel.
- a small gull for openoffice files.
- a window logo for samba
- a globe for ftp 
- a key for ssh

- a console for .sh
- a debian icon in the package for .deb.
- a red hat for in the package for .rpm.
- .
  

Hi!
About samba, ssh, ftp etc.
If you take a look at 
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/status.png you can see that 
lapo already created those, but they are not in tangerine (yet). Right 
now, all the icons in tangerine follows the names in icon-naming-spec, 
but I'll start polluting tangerine with various applications icons 
really soon anyway, so I think those will get in at some point or another.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] request: tango style synaptic icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

Sebastian Heinlein wrote:

hello,

I "designed" the original package status icons in synaptic. It would be
nice if someone could do some tango styled ones. The icons have to
reflect the status of the package: 

  

[snip]


New icons don't need to follow my old metaphor:

At the moment I use a filled box to show that the package is installed.
A white box represents an uninstalled package. Arrows indicate an
upgrade (up arrow), downgrade (down arrow) or installation (left arrow).
To be removed packages get a red cross.

Furthermore we use the distribution icon in a separate column to
indicate that the package is part of the official repository. It would
be nice if someone could find a way to merge this to icons.

  
How about something along the lines of this: 
http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/synaptic-proposal.png ?
Installed packages are in color, uninstalled packages are in monocrome 
and toned down.


The good thing about this solution is that the shapes are more 
distinguishable  this way, the bad thing is that it's not using the 
checkbox-style metaphor any more.

What do you think, fellow ubuntu-artists?
- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors

[Andreas Nilsson]

Étienne Bersac wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Mark for responding, don't forget you are our bdfl :)


I like the glass effect on our current widgets.


I also like the glassy effect. Something i dislike is the 
inconsistence of glassiness between widgets. What about glassy 
buttons, combo and scrollbars ? That might make the theme more 
consistent. Check and Radio button aren't glassy enough to fit well 
with the progress bar. Is this possible to glass tongoish icons ? A 
kind of mix between tango colors and ubuntu glassy might be a great 
compromise. 
In tangerine [1] the folder icons have been glossed up a tiny bit 
compared to tango-icon-theme, but making the whole set out of glass 
would not be that great, as you have to stare at these interface 
elements all day.

As Mark said, glossy stuff should be used with care.

1. special theme based on tango-icon-theme but with more brown and orange
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/status.png

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Inconsistence of gradients and artwork colors

[Andreas Nilsson]

Étienne Bersac wrote:


One more thing : please use tangoish icons and colours. When i saw 
tangoish artwork, this was like a hope of a good artwork with the good 
basis of Tango.

Hello Étienne!
My fellow tango-artist Lapo (with some help from myself, ulisse and 
jimmac) has put a lot of effort [1] into making tango blend in well with 
the rest of the ubuntu artwork and I'm currently putting it all into the 
Tangerine-set. If that pack will make it to main in dapper or not is up 
to others to decide though.

Take care!
- Andreas

1. http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bat/orango-tango/status.png



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Re: [ubuntu-art] update-notifier icon

[Andreas Nilsson]

Julian Turner wrote:

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
  

These are really nice! If you can get those into Tangerine, we might
promote them to Human with some slight tweaks. For a start, the
smaller version we want should be 22x22 not 24x24 because we have
sucked that bit of bong from Tango :-)



Thanks! They actually are 22x22, I just mis-labeled them because I'm so
used to 24 px size. However I'm not sure whether these 22 pixels should
include 1 px border around the actual icon (currently they don't).
If no-one has any better ideas than using the same shape for "update"
and "restart" (which I think is alright, since both icons represent the
task quite well and people are used to them), I'm going to give the
arrows some fine-tuning, and propose the icon for inclusion in
Tangerine.

Julian
  

Hello Julian!
Yes, it would be great to have these icons in Tangerine. It would be 
great to get rid of the current icon. I've made some small tweaks to the 
icon, like adding a box behind it, in order to make the connection 
between Add/Remove applications and the update-notifier more clear. I've 
also made the icon green to make it more positive, as red might be seen 
as "warning, dangerous stuff ahead!", when most of the time a system 
update is something good (like plunging a security hole in firefox and 
similar stuff).
Here are a tar.gz with the changes: 
http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/tango/software-update-avaible.tar.gz
If you are happy with these modifications, I'll push it into Tangerine 
as soon as possible.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Science Icons

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:

On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 23:53 +, Phil Bull wrote:
  

Hi guys

My apologies if this post is off-topic. I have prepared about 50
new .desktop files for some universe science packages [1]. The problem
is, about 90% of them don't have icons. Does anyone have any suitable
icons they could spare, or ideas on where to get some which would be
in-keeping with the default theme?

Because finding 50 app-specific icons is pretty unlikely, it'd be enough
if we could just cover the following categories with generic icons:

 * Astronomy
 * Biology
 * Chemistry
 * Electronics
 * Geology/Cave Exploration
 * Maths
 * Physics




Maybe this is something for the Tangerine project? Andreas, Pascal? If
there are no takers now, it should probably be listed as a task
somewhere on the wiki (ArtworkTeam/TangerineIcons if you ask me, but

that is up to Andreas).
Yes, science  icons in tango-style would be great! I've been thinking of 
doing some tangofication of the nice kde-edu icons David did in 
nuova-style a while ago (the chemistry one for example could be a good 
base for a icon). Check Davids icons out at http://icon-king.com/?p=14


Perhaps these should go into hicolor and be app-specific in order to 
keep tangerine clean.

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Proposal: Tangerine Icon Theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

Sure. Sorry for lagging behind with this a bit, just came back from LGM 
in Lyon.

I'll fix the wiki as soon as possible.
- Andreas

Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:

Andreas could you please fill out
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/TangerineIcons explaining the
situation, and listing you as responsible..?

As leader you might delegate it to Pascal now that he has joined the
Tangerine project ;-P

Cheers,
Mikkel

On Tue, 2006-03-14 at 18:49 +0100, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
  

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:


Hi folks

Thanks to Daniel's great work you can see the current progress and 
priorities of the Human theme, and how it looks next to the Tango and 
GnomeDefault icon themes. We will make sure that icons which Dave has 
published will move quickly into the Human theme so you can always see 
the latest work.


I am writing to propose the creation of "Tangerine", a completely 
community-contributed and owned theme which would sit between Human 
and Tango in the theme order list. This would mean that icons which 
are NOT in Human but ARE in Tangerine would appear in preference to 
Tango or GnomeDefault icons.


Tangerine would start out with a selection of Tango and GnomeDefault 
icons. If you see the current icon priority page has comments on the 
right hand bar, and many of them say "Use Gnome" or "Use Tango". 
That's my own personal selection as to which of the Gnome or Tango 
icons I think would look better given that we won't have time to 
create our own.


Tangerine would be managed by the community as follows:

 - one person will be selected by the community to be the Tangerine Lead
 - up to three people will get direct write access to the repository
 - the rest of the community would contribute icons to those core 
theme writers, who would choose which icons go into Tangerine, using 
your own community processes


  

Hello Mark!
I can step up and maintain this, and I bet I have lapo with me on this, 
however there are some problems.
Gnome-icon-theme is licensed under GPL, while Tango is licensed under 
CC-SA and I'm not sure it is legally possible to create a theme with a 
mishmash of licenses. It would probably be possible to keep the themes 
in separate packages, delete icons like stock-save in tango and tangofy 
that icon in gnome-icon-theme (and as tango depend on g-i-t it would 
fall back to that and it would use the one from g-i-t). I'm not sure 
that is a good solution though.
It would be nice to have some more info on why some icons in human or 
gnome was chosen instead of the tango ones, so that we either can fix 
this upstream or fix tango in dapper to use some better metaphors/styles.

- Andreas





  



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Re: [ubuntu-art] A call for icons: gnome-accessibility-theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

Henrik Nilsen Omma wrote:

Hi,

There is a set of four high contrast themes for gnome which seem 
pretty effective, but the icon sets are incomplete which makes 
everything rather untidy. To see what I mean install the package 
gnome-accessibility-themes and select one of the high contrast themes. 
You will see that some menu entries and applications are fairly 
complete, while others only partially so. This image shows openoffice, 
which is the worst offender not using any high contrast icons at all, 
behind gedit which is complete: 
http://people.ubuntu.com/~henrik/images/contrast-icons.png


I've filed a bug on openoffice since it seems not to know about the 
existing high contrast icons:


https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org2-amd64/+bug/27191 



but the icon set itself is limited too. It might actually be that most 
of the gaps can be filled by setting suitable symlinks to existing 
icons (like making the firefox icon point at gnome-globe.png)


Does someone want to chart this set against the list at 
http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ and see what can be done to make it 
more complete (or appear more complete)?


- Henrik

If some icons are missing in the high-contrast theme, check out the 
kde-icon-mono package. There is quite a collection of icons in there so 
hopefully it will be easier to fill the gaps in the high contrast theme 
for gnome (and hopefully when the icon-naming-spec gets supported by the 
two big desktops they can merge).

- Andreas

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Proposal: Tangerine Icon Theme

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:

Hi folks

Thanks to Daniel's great work you can see the current progress and 
priorities of the Human theme, and how it looks next to the Tango and 
GnomeDefault icon themes. We will make sure that icons which Dave has 
published will move quickly into the Human theme so you can always see 
the latest work.


I am writing to propose the creation of "Tangerine", a completely 
community-contributed and owned theme which would sit between Human 
and Tango in the theme order list. This would mean that icons which 
are NOT in Human but ARE in Tangerine would appear in preference to 
Tango or GnomeDefault icons.


Tangerine would start out with a selection of Tango and GnomeDefault 
icons. If you see the current icon priority page has comments on the 
right hand bar, and many of them say "Use Gnome" or "Use Tango". 
That's my own personal selection as to which of the Gnome or Tango 
icons I think would look better given that we won't have time to 
create our own.


Tangerine would be managed by the community as follows:

 - one person will be selected by the community to be the Tangerine Lead
 - up to three people will get direct write access to the repository
 - the rest of the community would contribute icons to those core 
theme writers, who would choose which icons go into Tangerine, using 
your own community processes



Hello Mark!
I can step up and maintain this, and I bet I have lapo with me on this, 
however there are some problems.
Gnome-icon-theme is licensed under GPL, while Tango is licensed under 
CC-SA and I'm not sure it is legally possible to create a theme with a 
mishmash of licenses. It would probably be possible to keep the themes 
in separate packages, delete icons like stock-save in tango and tangofy 
that icon in gnome-icon-theme (and as tango depend on g-i-t it would 
fall back to that and it would use the one from g-i-t). I'm not sure 
that is a good solution though.
It would be nice to have some more info on why some icons in human or 
gnome was chosen instead of the tango ones, so that we either can fix 
this upstream or fix tango in dapper to use some better metaphors/styles.

- Andreas

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[ubuntu-art] Source for dapper-icons?

[Andreas Nilsson]

I downloaded the source for dapper-artwork today, but I was unable to 
find any xcf's/svg's in there. I particularly looking for  the source of 
the dapper-icons, where can I find these?

- Andreas

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re: [ubuntu-art] Icon plan for Dapper

[Andreas Nilsson]

Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
"2. The style guide of these new icons is not Tango, but it is
relatively close, and Tango will make a good fallback icon theme for
Dapper. However, the Tango core palette is blue, and ours is Human, so
we would really like to call for help on converting Tango icons to this
Human palette (which uses warmer, brown, yellow and orange colours
extensively)."


Sure, sounds fixable. I'll ask lapo if he is interested in helping me with this.
About the palette, you're talking about Butter, Chocolate and Orange in 
http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Color_Palette, right?
- Andreas


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