[UC] For Darco Fwd: Re: dog committee
Darco, Here you can see a written request to join the FOCP dog committee. (We caught Tony West cheating on the vote count a year later. Search for discussions about the secret six) The next forward is the written refusal I received from President Jonathon Snyder. Please consider Ric's comments about our exchange. In terms of logical fallacies, it's called a straw man. Tony publicly uses this technique regularly. He uses it to intimidate people by attempting to alter a person's position in a way that would make them appear foolish or dishonest. Then, he argues against the position of the created straw man. This technique assumes that the readers of the listserv are idiots and can not detect the technique. Ric has shown you that it's pretty easy for reader's to detect the deception. Glenn Original Message Subject:Re: dog committee Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:32:02 -0500 From: Anthony West anthony_w...@dca.net To: Glenn glen...@earthlink.net CC: Jonathan Snyder jonathan_snyder2...@yahoo.com Glenn, I got your check so you are paid up. Thanks for volunteering. I advised the committee at its first meeting that its members must inevitably deal with requests by other FoCP members to participate or provide input in other ways; and that they would have to determine their own ability to handle that and establish their own procedures for it. The committee will be organizing itself when it meets again. Its overall work will take quite some time, so there will be no rush to decision-making that might exclude your input. In the meantime, any member's input that I receive myself, as president or as chair of the Membership Committee, I shall forward straight to Jonathan. -- Tony - Original Message - *From:* Glenn mailto:glen...@earthlink.net *To:* jonathan_snyder2...@yahoo.com mailto:jonathan_snyder2...@yahoo.com *Cc:* anthony_w...@dca.net mailto:anthony_w...@dca.net ; Glenn mailto:glen...@earthlink.net *Sent:* Thursday, January 29, 2004 1:40 PM *Subject:* dog committee Hi Jonathan, I would very much like to join the committtee discussing the Clark Park dog culture. I've been a part of that culture since 1981 and currently bring Sam since 1998. Also, I have been part of organized discussions about the dog culture since 2001, and I have a good bit to contribute on this topic. My membership recently lapsed so I will drop off a check today to Tony West. Except for that lapse, I have been a member of the association continuously since 1996. Feel free to call, 215 382 4565. Thank you. Glenn Moyer Request as FoCP member to help represent the interests of the existing dog culture.
[UC] For Darco Fwd: Re: dog committee
Darco, These two forwards nicely show the refusal of a written request, with membership dues paid, to the FOCP leaders. They can and have regularly denied members inclusion on all sorts of committees. I have been warning people for years not to pay membership dues. It is a complete lie that any FOCP member can join any FOCP committee. Tony West rules the community with an iron fist. Any one capable of exposing Tony's bullying will always be barred while their other board members watch. Darco, I can start forwarding dozens of requests copied to this listserv in which I politely request THE TIME, DATE, AND LOCATION of various FOCP meetings along with the nasty refusals, lies, and misinformation I received in response. All of these will demonstrate that all planning meetings about the revitalization were kept secret. (Periodically, FOCP would perform a tightly controlled dog and pony show. They would only allow 3 or 4 minutes before the end, for 1 minute comments. They would interrupt and silence anyone commenting on the secretive process) The FOCP general membership also directed the leaders of FOCP to publish the time, date, location, and agenda of their meetings in the local paper, the University City Review. They defied their members after approximately 1 year. Then, they started moving forward with the redesign meetings. (There are written records and witnesses to all of this) The written record on this listserv provides abundant evidence that the leaders of FOCP protected the secrecy of the redesign meetings over a period of years. Sincerely, Glenn Original Message Subject:Re: dog committee Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:12:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Snyder jonathan_snyder2...@yahoo.com To: Glenn glen...@earthlink.net CC: anthony west anthony_w...@dca.net Hi Glenn- Thanks for your email. I am grateful for your interest in this issue. Tony West had quite a challenge, but has picked a committee in which those who are pro leash, anti leash, and undecided are all represented. At this time there are no plans to increase the size of the committee, but I value your input. The first meeting went well. The committee members introduced themselves, and we discussed some of the issues surrounding dogs in the park including safety, benefits and costs of a fenced in dog run, the increase in the number of unleashed dogs, and effects of moving the tot lot. My goal is to attempt to find solutions in which all park users feel safe and welcome. If you have any ideas to share, comments, or further questions please contact me. -Jonathan Snyder */Glenn glen...@earthlink.net/* wrote: Hi Jonathan, I would very much like to join the committtee discussing the Clark Park dog culture. I've been a part of that culture since 1981 and currently bring Sam since 1998. Also, I have been part of organized discussions about the dog culture since 2001, and I have a good bit to contribute on this topic. My membership recently lapsed so I will drop off a check today to Tony West. Except for that lapse, I have been a member of the association continuously since 1996. Feel free to call, 215 382 4565. Thank you. Glenn Moyer Request as FoCP member to help represent the interests of the existing dog culture. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. *Try it!* http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21608/*http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
Ric, I want to publicly thank you for confronting the use of a straw man. One of the reasons that this technique is so ubiquitous is to intimidate and silence everyone else. Tony knows that he will never silence or intimidate me. He is trying to send a message to the rest of the list and community when he attempts these techniques. His message is all about power. Anyone who dares to question the abuse of power is to watch how he attempts to crush his target. Confronting these techniques empowers others in this community to stand up and speak out! In the end, bully's are exposed. Thanks, Glenn PS: The other FOCP board members have left Tony unleashed to use these tactics against this community for years. WHAT DOES THEIR SILENCE SAY ABOUT THE FOCP BOARD On 4/29/2011 12:43 AM, Richard Conrad wrote: You are reading in. You don't play fair. You just can't admit it. Glenn does not say as Darco implied that people were excluded from the park (and actually people have been - you and everyone else can probably realize that people are routinely told to leave the park, for sleeping overnight and other reasons). Maybe Glenn refers to private Clark Park banquets with high priced entry fees. Maybe he refers to private gatherings hosted by Penn where the public is excluded. 'Penn Control' is something about which while Glenn has held back from giving it ultimate vilification, he warns people to be concerned. 'Secrecy' is the most difficult to prove (duh, it's a secret), but in any case you ridicule by hyperbole, misrepresent his remarks, and say things that are not true. You now seem to be practically accusing me of being a Trump conspiracy talk supporter. You clearly haven't read much of what I have written (or you are resorting to damaging written public falsification again). I am actually a true Balder who believes Donald Trump can't be Pres. because he can't prove his hair was born in the U.S.A. Here is something of mine I posted to FB: Saying Trump appeals to masochistic dupes with no sense of mathematics, to sadistic voyeurs who wish they had balls, or to racist instincts in those of lesser intelligence, is all the same... they're just the facts Jack! Bill Mahr did better: Bill Maher says, Hey Trump, what's the biggest scam ever NOW? I'd say its a guy with 3 bankruptcies telling America how to get its financial house in order. Crackpot. That is what you say Tony, instead of answering others criticisms! Surely you are big enough to deal with others concerns and not to only resort to name calling. Be fair. Rick On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:00 AM, Anthony West wrote: Richard, I quote from Glenn's text, which Darco and I have read quite clearly: The master plan for 'revitalization' of Clark Park was always a master plan for secrecy, exclusion of the public, and Penn control! Glenn has, for years, been publishing on this list false allegations that various users were *planned to be excluded from the park *by this nefarious conspiracy. Since none of them ever were, in fact, excluded from the physical park, and there were, in fact, no plans that any users should be excluded from the park -- he is now attempting to befuddle you -- as well as unsuspecting newcomers -- by pretending some users were excluded from *planning for the park. *And he's trying to muddle the two together with murky conspiracy-theory language, where what we're talking about shifts every time a claim of fact is contested. Of course, nothing of the sort ever happened. (There wasn't any secrecy or any Penn control either.) I looked into these allegations very carefully in 2002-03. Typical Trump talk, in my opinion. But if this is what floats your boat, I sure can't stop you. Conspiracy-theory crackpots never run out of gas, do they? --Tony West On 4/28/2011 11:28 PM, Richard Conrad wrote: O.K. let's get real! Darco represents Glenn as saying something he did not. Darco asks: do you have evidence of people being excluded from the park? Glenn did not ever say in his communique that people were excluded from the park. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3603 - Release Date: 04/28/11 14:34:00
[UC] Unknown dog park history, 01-02
Neighbors, Many of you don't know what nearly happened to the dog owners of Clark Park in 2001-2002. Back then, the leaders of the FOCP attempted to push the police to start mass arrests of dog owners in Clark Park. They used the normal secret meeting tactic and none of the members of the subculture of dog owners knew it was occurring! Background: When the FOCP was chosen as UCD's rubber stamp, the FOCP leaders immediately attempted to cleanse the B park of any organized activities other than its own youth soccer club. UCD and FOCP set up a hand picked Quality of Life Task Force to lobby the police and department of Recreation to take action against these subcultures (The Woodland Ave Reunion, immigrant soccer players, the Clark Park Music and Arts Community, and the dog owners) They did not know that I was willing and able to stand up for the dog owners and confront the lies, which were being delivered about them. (I was there to defend the music and arts festivals) They pretended that the advocate for a fenced in dog park REPRESENTED the dog owners of Clark Park. That was a lie. For the sake of brevity, the FOCP leaders made idiots of themselves, and I helped expose the deceptions. I asked the police to prosecute the lawyer making false dog bite complaints. While they did not respond to my demand, I noticed that idiot stopped harassing dog owners in the early morning hours. A few years later, when the FOCP/UCD again attempted to demand a fenced in dog park for Clark Park, the FOCP leaders knew that I would be able to challenge the deceptions and show that their surveys were deliberate deceptions, and not a good faith attempt by idiotic researchers. (A similar survey, against the festivals and Woodland Reunion, was briefly reported in the City Paper link I provided yesterday.) Now, people can understand why I was barred from the dog park committee in 2004. The eventual public meeting about the dog park showed our neighbors some important realities. Neighbors learned the way FOCP/UCD delivers useless surveys to authorities, pretending to have legitimate statistical evidence to back up their bullying. This listserv also learned one trick FOCP leaders use when they cheat on votes. (This technique was recently used in the Wisconsin supreme court elections) The listserv discussion can be reviewed under the subject, the secret six. It is impossible to know how long FOCP leaders have been cheating their members or on which other votes and elections they added votes to the tally. Sincerely, Glenn You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
Dear Glenn, I appreciate your gratitude and quite concur with your astute identification of straw man bullying. I hope you are mistaken about Tony's message being all about power and still hope that he will come to his senses and apologize for his unfair behaviors in attacking you, and then me, but I won't predict the future. The same goes for Darco and Bill. If we intend to continue community growth and stave off fascistic corporate medievalism we had all better seriously watch our hands in dealing with those amongst our own ranks and neighborhoods. Rick On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:44 AM, Glenn wrote: Ric, I want to publicly thank you for confronting the use of a straw man. One of the reasons that this technique is so ubiquitous is to intimidate and silence everyone else. Tony knows that he will never silence or intimidate me. He is trying to send a message to the rest of the list and community when he attempts these techniques. His message is all about power. Anyone who dares to question the abuse of power is to watch how he attempts to crush his target. Confronting these techniques empowers others in this community to stand up and speak out! In the end, bully's are exposed. Thanks, Glenn PS: The other FOCP board members have left Tony unleashed to use these tactics against this community for years. WHAT DOES THEIR SILENCE SAY ABOUT THE FOCP BOARD On 4/29/2011 12:43 AM, Richard Conrad wrote: You are reading in. You don't play fair. You just can't admit it. Glenn does not say as Darco implied that people were excluded from the park (and actually people have been - you and everyone else can probably realize that people are routinely told to leave the park, for sleeping overnight and other reasons). Maybe Glenn refers to private Clark Park banquets with high priced entry fees. Maybe he refers to private gatherings hosted by Penn where the public is excluded. 'Penn Control' is something about which while Glenn has held back from giving it ultimate vilification, he warns people to be concerned. 'Secrecy' is the most difficult to prove (duh, it's a secret), but in any case you ridicule by hyperbole, misrepresent his remarks, and say things that are not true. You now seem to be practically accusing me of being a Trump conspiracy talk supporter. You clearly haven't read much of what I have written (or you are resorting to damaging written public falsification again). I am actually a true Balder who believes Donald Trump can't be Pres. because he can't prove his hair was born in the U.S.A. Here is something of mine I posted to FB: Saying Trump appeals to masochistic dupes with no sense of mathematics, to sadistic voyeurs who wish they had balls, or to racist instincts in those of lesser intelligence, is all the same... they're just the facts Jack! Bill Mahr did better: Bill Maher says, Hey Trump, what's the biggest scam ever NOW? I'd say its a guy with 3 bankruptcies telling America how to get its financial house in order. Crackpot. That is what you say Tony, instead of answering others criticisms! Surely you are big enough to deal with others concerns and not to only resort to name calling. Be fair. Rick On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:00 AM, Anthony West wrote: Richard, I quote from Glenn's text, which Darco and I have read quite clearly: The master plan for 'revitalization' of Clark Park was always a master plan for secrecy, exclusion of the public, and Penn control! Glenn has, for years, been publishing on this list false allegations that various users were planned to be excluded from the park by this nefarious conspiracy. Since none of them ever were, in fact, excluded from the physical park, and there were, in fact, no plans that any users should be excluded from the park -- he is now attempting to befuddle you -- as well as unsuspecting newcomers -- by pretending some users were excluded from planning for the park. And he's trying to muddle the two together with murky conspiracy-theory language, where what we're talking about shifts every time a claim of fact is contested. Of course, nothing of the sort ever happened. (There wasn't any secrecy or any Penn control either.) I looked into these allegations very carefully in 2002-03. Typical Trump talk, in my opinion. But if this is what floats your boat, I sure can't stop you. Conspiracy-theory crackpots never run out of gas, do they? --Tony West On 4/28/2011 11:28 PM, Richard Conrad wrote: O.K. let's get real! Darco represents Glenn as saying something he did not. Darco asks: do you have evidence of people being excluded from the park? Glenn did not ever say in his communique that people were excluded from the park. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3603 -
[UC-Announce] Clark Park MayFair Plant Sale
OOPS !!! the pre-order deadline is passed - but not to worry - you can still buy plants next Friday May 6th at 517 Woodland Terrace (10-dark) or on Saturday May 7th at the MayFair in Clark Park (10-3) (note different location: near 43rd and Regent Street) If you did not get an email from me confirming your pre-order and you made one already you need to get in touch with me/resend again ASAP. If you have your pre-order ready now - send it to me by email and I can still get it into the grower this afternoon. If you send it to me later than that then I may or may not be able to fill it completely (take your chances with substitutions and non-availability). I still have some openings available for 2 hour volunteer shifts on Saturday - please email me if you are interested in participating. There will be other varieties (not on the pre-order form) available Friday and Saturday. Here is the LINK http://www.home.earthlink.net/~ucgc/PLANTSALE-2011S.pdf to the flyer - you get 10% shopping credit when you pre-order/pay by Monday. thank you, Lauren Leatherbarrow my phone number is on the sale flyer
[UC-Announce] Wed 5/4: Umalali: The Garifuna Women's Project at Crossroads (includes children's program)
Wednesday, May 4, 2011 at 7:30 pm Umalali: The Garifuna Women's Project African rhythms, choral singing, and hypnotic, melancholic melodies... that will haunt you long after every listen. A unique, deeply moving, unforgettable album.- Songlines Children's program at 6:00! At Crossroads Music, 801 S. 48th Street (at Baltimore Avenue) Umalali, the Garifuna word for voice, is a musical ensemble that gives extraordinary testimony to the resilience of a unique culture and particularly its women. In 1635, a ship carrying Africans to the New World to be sold into slavery was wrecked off the coast of St Vincent in the eastern Caribbean. These Africans were absorbed into the indigenous Carib population, and in the process created a unique culture that four centuries later was recognized by UNESCO as a Masterpiece of Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity. Fast forward to 1997. A young record producer in Belize observed that in the Garifuna community, it was the women who carried on the teaching of the language, the women who knew more songs than the men, and the women who wrote more songs than the men. Along with his musical companion the late Andy Palacio, record producer Ivan Duran determined to seek out and record the best female singers they could find. Women singers of all ages from diverse Garifuna communities in Belize, Honduras, and Guatemala, many of whom had never recorded before, participated in groundbreaking recording sessions in homes, seaside shacks, festivals and other settings with Andy Palacio and members of the Garifuna Collective.The result was a recording that captures the beauty and power of Garifuna female expression. UMALALI's live performance is also a moving and inspirational program that pays tribute to the rich heritage carried in the voices of Garifuna women. Their powerful voices and call-and-response format draw the listener in to be captivated by the engaging rhythms and wonderful sounds of the Garifuna language. To read more, listen to sound samples, or buy tickets: http://crossroadsconcerts.org/?p=2519 -- Upcoming events Sunday, May 8, 2011 at 7:30 pm Presented in collaboration with the Sangeet Society Shahid Parvez Khan Among the finest sitar players alive today Shahid Parvez gave a scintillating sitar recital... imposing from the very beginning... fertile imagination and technical virtuosity in full measure.- The Hindu Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm Petar Ralchev The Mozart of Bulgarian folk music His rich harmonic palette allows him to create dazzling chords, change keys seemingly at will, and answer his own improvised phrases with statements that push the music inexorably forward.- Chicago Reader Wednesday, May 25, 2011 at 7:30 pm Taína Asili, Gaetano Vaccaro April Goltz Flamenco and Latin American folk Puerto Rican vocalist Taína Asili and Sicilian guitarist Gaetano Vaccaro are joined by Albuquerque based dancer April Goltz for a stunning night of Latin American folk and flamenco. (Unless otherwise noted, events take place at 801 S. 48th Street (in Calvary Church), Philadelphia). -- Collaborations Monday, May 9, 2011 at 7:00 pm At the Rotunda, 4014 Walnut Street, Philadelphia The Starry Mountain Singers Vocal harmonies from New England, Appalachia, Bulgaria, Corsica, and the Republic of Georgia Everyone needs to make time to get the hell outta the house and hear this rockin' bunch; your molecules WILL be rearranged. - Pete Sutherland -- Supporters Crossroads Music is in part supported by the Philadelphia Cultural Fund and the Samuel S. Fels Fund and by our members, donors, and program book advertisers. This project is supported by the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts, a state agency, through the Pennsylvania Partners in the Arts (PPA), its regional arts funding partnership. State government funding for the arts depends upon an annual appropriation by the Pennsylvania General Assembly and from the National Endowment for the Arts, a federal agency. PPA is administred in this region by the Greater Philadelphia Cultural Alliance. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity-Announce. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You may post announcements to this list, but this list attempts to prevent discussion. Please use univcity to discuss messages on this list. Subscribers of univcity receive all mail to this list.
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
Rick, I tend to be optimistic. For over a decade, I worked with serious drug addicts and ex-prisoners. Only those of us with abundant optimism manage to do that work successfully-haha. Darco seems reasonable and I hope he considers our criticism constructively. I think it's out of character, and that is part of the reason I snapped back at him. I just dismiss tweets like Bill's and don't know anything about him other than being a block captain. But I've noticed disturbing patterns with some other block captains in our area. The current FOCP prez and former Spruce Hill Civic Association prez became my block commander as soon as he moved to West Philly! That experience has been terrible! But I would certainly accept a sincere apology from Bill, without prejudice. Unfortunately, I've been dealing with Tony since 2003 and his behavior has always been consistent. I'm not sure how long you've been subscribed to this list, but he has a long history here, and as the leader of the FOCP Board. I haven't been the only target over the years. Straw man is one of Tony West's favorite tactics. And he will not stop, even when he should realize that he is making a fool of himself. What I call his Evil Ray series is infamous! I think he thought he was successful when he had a gang of people, who joined him in a type of group straw man tactic on the list. Tony would create the straw man, and then the group would post a series of nasty posts at the target, as if they were all too stupid to understand the meaning of the original post. After their gangs' tactics were thoroughly exposed on this list, they left and formed a separate list sponsored by the Annenberg school at Penn. I believe you know this ucneighbors. They used the threat of censorship to intimidate the other subscribers, who came from this listserv. They were even caught bragging about their power to silence about 5 of us, who told the truth about neighborhood issues. (A real estate agent named, Melani, thought it would be heaven if I were silenced with the power of Penn's computers-haha.) After some of us made fun of them, they closed off the archives to the public-haha. It was a violation of a couple of Penn's written policies. (I informed the office of the President of the University that I intended to expose this as widely as I could manage, and I believe they were eventually kicked off the Penn system.) It still bothers me that Penn allowed bold censorship against its neighboring community for such a long time! (I spent years giving 100% for the reputation of Penn when I worked for the addiction treatment research center.) But Tony has continued to use these discredited techniques here, without the ucneighbors back-up. I've often deconstructed his posts to remind people about fallacious arguments and how they are used to bully. He actually provides the list with great texts for study. Take care, Glenn On 4/29/2011 9:42 AM, Richard Conrad wrote: Dear Glenn, I appreciate your gratitude and quite concur with your astute identification of straw man bullying. I hope you are mistaken about Tony's message being all about power and still hope that he will come to his senses and apologize for his unfair behaviors in attacking you, and then me, but I won't predict the future. The same goes for Darco and Bill. If we intend to continue community growth and stave off fascistic corporate medievalism we had all better seriously watch our hands in dealing with those amongst our own ranks and neighborhoods. Rick On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:44 AM, Glenn wrote: Ric, I want to publicly thank you for confronting the use of a straw man. One of the reasons that this technique is so ubiquitous is to intimidate and silence everyone else. Tony knows that he will never silence or intimidate me. He is trying to send a message to the rest of the list and community when he attempts these techniques. His message is all about power. Anyone who dares to question the abuse of power is to watch how he attempts to crush his target. Confronting these techniques empowers others in this community to stand up and speak out! In the end, bully's are exposed. Thanks, Glenn PS: The other FOCP board members have left Tony unleashed to use these tactics against this community for years. WHAT DOES THEIR SILENCE SAY ABOUT THE FOCP BOARD On 4/29/2011 12:43 AM, Richard Conrad wrote: You are reading in. You don't play fair. You just can't admit it. Glenn does not say as Darco implied that people were excluded from the park (and actually people have been - you and everyone else can probably realize that people are routinely told to leave the park, for sleeping overnight and other reasons). Maybe Glenn refers to private Clark Park banquets with high priced entry fees. Maybe he refers to private gatherings hosted by Penn where the public is excluded. 'Penn Control' is
RE: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
I apologize for any misinterpretation on my part, however the general tone of most of Glenn's emails is that the public is excluded from use of the park, of which I have seen little evidence (disregarding law enforcement - see below). While I tend to agree with many of Glenn's general opinions regarding rising corporatism and oppression of the middle and lower classes in society, I grow weary of his long rants and little factual evidence regarding the local conspiracy. Most of his evidence presented is the rejection of his participation in FOCP - the exclusion of his voice. And honestly, it seems mostly vindictive to me. Very rarely does he present a cooperative attitude. Ok, so the A park has been closed for some time for renovations. To me, I see a waste of money. Yes, I bet it will be nice and prettier - but it's still a city park and some efforts are wasteful in my opinion (reseeding grass in the bowl). But at the same time, if that money wasn't spent (wasted?) on Clark Park, it would have been elsewhere. Ok, so the dog park didn't happen (I'm a big supporter of the idea). But I also see the negative sides to it. University City's gentrification (I don't know what else to call it) over the last 15 years has had plenty of positive as well as negative effects. Having a private party in the park is just as much a right for Penn as it is for any group to hold an event. Does Penn have an idea of what they want to see in Clark Park, the neighborhood, and the City? Of course they do - they have a vested interest in all of that. Are they not supposed to voice their opinions? Is UCD not mostly driven by Penn (and Drexel, and other University City power brokers)? Of course it is. I have been critical of FOCP - and have disagreed with plenty of decisions. I have disagreed with some policies of the UCD. That's why I've become more involved. And while the issue of police enforcement (harassment of people sleeping in the park, public drinking, etc) is a complicated one which I don't think is handled properly, I also understand that in fact, that is the law, whether or not I agree with it. My point is, the best evidence that Glenn can come up with is his denial to be on the dog committee. I can fully understand that, since I've rarely seen evidence of Glenn being compromising. While Tony and I have had disagreements regarding policies, he has actually encouraged me to become more involved. So, I'm faced with on one hand Glenn telling me how evil and bad FOCP is, and on the other being asked to participate, despite disagreeing with policies and plans of both UCD and FOCP. Now Glenn will surely say I am being assimilated and will shortly become a puppet of the evil FOCP. Darco PS- I wholeheartedly agree with Glenn regarding the big picture of our society and actually appreciate his emails most of the time. But occasionally they just annoy me enough that I need to respond. From: owner-univc...@list.purple.com [mailto:owner-univc...@list.purple.com] On Behalf Of Richard Conrad Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:43 AM To: Anthony West Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11 You are reading in. You don't play fair. You just can't admit it. Glenn does not say as Darco implied that people were excluded from the park (and actually people have been - you and everyone else can probably realize that people are routinely told to leave the park, for sleeping overnight and other reasons). Maybe Glenn refers to private Clark Park banquets with high priced entry fees. Maybe he refers to private gatherings hosted by Penn where the public is excluded. 'Penn Control' is something about which while Glenn has held back from giving it ultimate vilification, he warns people to be concerned. 'Secrecy' is the most difficult to prove (duh, it's a secret), but in any case you ridicule by hyperbole, misrepresent his remarks, and say things that are not true. You now seem to be practically accusing me of being a Trump conspiracy talk supporter. You clearly haven't read much of what I have written (or you are resorting to damaging written public falsification again). I am actually a true Balder who believes Donald Trump can't be Pres. because he can't prove his hair was born in the U.S.A. Here is something of mine I posted to FB: Saying Trump appeals to masochistic dupes with no sense of mathematics, to sadistic voyeurs who wish they had balls, or to racist instincts in those of lesser intelligence, is all the same... they're just the facts Jack! Bill Mahr did better: Bill Maher says, Hey Trump, what's the biggest scam ever NOW? I'd say its a guy with 3 bankruptcies telling America how to get its financial house in order. Crackpot. That is what you say Tony, instead of answering others criticisms! Surely you are big enough to deal with others concerns and not to only resort to name calling. Be fair. Rick On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:00 AM,
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
Lemme see if I have this straight. Real-state investor uses a soapbox to yell about crazy, baseless conspiracy theories. Most of the evidence offered rests on assertions, suppositions, insinuations, and claims of fact that evaporate beyond the guy's say-so. There's also a comical insistence that he is the real community activist, the genuine patriot, the true American. But his history has been one of hostility to the concerns of others in his community. In fact, he's always characterized people who disagree with him as fools, knaves, fascists, foreign interlopers and thugs who want to interfere with his personal use of public space. But the real estate investor continues. Because every so often, _someone_ out there is tricked into believing that he shares their interests and political outlook, and demagogues see followers as their personal vindication. And since refuting the claims would take more energy than they're worth, the guy goes unanswered... so he claims that the silence is his vindication, too. Finally, when this nonsense has gone on long enough, the real-estate guy's targets respond. Maybe they, too, are a little testy, which is understandable after putting up with this for so long. But he claims this, too, as a vindication, as proof that he was right all along. I made them _reply_. I made them _listen to me_. That makes me _important_. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
RE: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
But you see, I agree with Glenn on a basic level. Of course Penn wants to influence things around it. It's also always the people or companies with political power or money who have the greatest influence, that's how our society works (fortunately or unfortunately). But he takes it to another level. I'm sorry, but Clark Park is just not that important to Penn. And as far as conspiracies, I'm curious what reasoning the FOCP would have to sell out to Penn or any other entity. I mean, did I miss out where they were handing out cash to people to vote a certain way? After all, that is the Philly way when it comes to politics. -Original Message- From: owner-univc...@list.purple.com [mailto:owner-univc...@list.purple.com] On Behalf Of Brian Siano Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 1:16 PM Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com Subject: Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11 Lemme see if I have this straight. Real-state investor uses a soapbox to yell about crazy, baseless conspiracy theories. Most of the evidence offered rests on assertions, suppositions, insinuations, and claims of fact that evaporate beyond the guy's say-so. There's also a comical insistence that he is the real community activist, the genuine patriot, the true American. But his history has been one of hostility to the concerns of others in his community. In fact, he's always characterized people who disagree with him as fools, knaves, fascists, foreign interlopers and thugs who want to interfere with his personal use of public space. But the real estate investor continues. Because every so often, _someone_ out there is tricked into believing that he shares their interests and political outlook, and demagogues see followers as their personal vindication. And since refuting the claims would take more energy than they're worth, the guy goes unanswered... so he claims that the silence is his vindication, too. Finally, when this nonsense has gone on long enough, the real-estate guy's targets respond. Maybe they, too, are a little testy, which is understandable after putting up with this for so long. But he claims this, too, as a vindication, as proof that he was right all along. I made them _reply_. I made them _listen to me_. That makes me _important_. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
On 4/29/2011 12:30 PM, Lalevic, Darco wrote: I apologize for any misinterpretation on my part, however the general tone of most of Glenn's emails is that the public is excluded from use of the park, of which I have seen little evidence Darco, You just did it again. Maybe if you would work on your reading skills, you would not be so annoyed and annoying. This is completely untrue! I have reported for the past 10 years that the public, and park user groups, have been intentionally excluded from the park planning meetings and the backroom deals regarding major changes to Clark Park. Why do you continue to seriously misrepresent my positions and then get annoyed at the false positions? If you agree with my big picture view, as you say, you would know that I am committed to the principals of democratic societies. Transparency and inclusion are the most fundamental principles of a republic, and when a society abandons these they will always lose their rights. Those principles and rights are not just vital for national issues but also for local issues. The idea that these principles can be abandoned in hopes of trickle down corporate money, and brought back when it's really important is absurd. That is the stupidity that caused the collapsing of America, and the evil that is being done to my oppressed brothers and sisters around the planet ! This slippery slope of part time principles, that you seem to have faith in, was rampant in this neighborhood. It compelled me to stand up to the mad rush for plutocracy, which was obvious under the Penn gentrification model ten years ago. I knew that I would be abused for taking a principled stand and for trying to get our sleepwalking neighbors to wake up! I happened to be quite involved with Clark Park when Penn decided to save the neighborhood, and called me and my neighbors criminals! I was in the position to blow the whistle and have always considered it my duty. I grow weary of his long rants and little factual evidence regarding the local conspiracy. What annoyed others, who've told me to shut up, was the incredible body of evidence that I made public using this listserv!Each time I publicly demanded the time, date, and location of secret meetings, I was in fact providing evidence that the public was excluded! Other readers could watch and see that West, Siano, etc. never ever gave the meeting information, but instead responded with a blitz of mean spirited comments attacking my character. They could look at the University City Review and see that the meetings, which should have been announced by order of the members of FOCP, were never there! And they were able to know that secret meetings were taking place at which they were unwelcome. The readers on this list have watched this evidence for years. I've continuously proved that these meetings were not public. Today, the Clark Park Partnership calls this exclusion, invitation only meetings. It's fact and if you don't believe me then you need to do a little work. What other evidence can I show you from secret meetings which none of us attended? Some people have recently thanked me for my dedication to blowing the whistle, and others who are not on this list, told me that they didn't know that these abuses were occurring. BUT THEY WISHED THEY HAD How do you respond to important evidence? Darco writes: My point is, the best evidence that Glenn can come up with is his denial to be on the dog committee. I can fully understand that, since I've rarely seen evidence of Glenn being compromising. So your response to evidence is nothing more than ad hominem! Ad hominem is a fallacy of logic too. For the past few years, FOCP leaders have claimed that their members can always join any committee, and I alone was unwelcome because I'm selfish. I provided you evidence that proved that was not true, whether or not you have the ability to understand it. It also proved that FOCP leaders continued to lie about inclusion continuously over many years. Why should I look for more evidence for you, when you can't understand it, and simply dismiss it as proof of my bad character? Regarding FOCP leaders, I'm not having a debate with reasonable mature neighbors. I've concentrated on exposing bullying, lies, processes unacceptable to any neighborhood in a democratic society, etc. Under these conditions, compromising is an absurd choice for your words. How exactly does one compromise when power is abused to bully? How did I organize Clark Park festivals, volleyball, and work on a world class health care research team, if I don't have the ability to work well with mature reasonable adults? Darco writes: Does Penn have an idea of what they want to see in Clark Park, the neighborhood, and the City? Of course they do -- they have a vested interest in all of that. Are they not supposed to voice their opinions? Here we go
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
On 4/29/11 12:30 PM, Lalevic, Darco wrote: University City’s gentrification (I don’t know what else to call it) over the last 15 years has had plenty of positive as well as negative effects. the main negative effect is that we now have a staunchly divided neighborhood. and it's a big effect, one which will continue to carry penn -- and its catspaws ucd and campus apartments and so-called community association leaders -- farther and farther. an advance that feeds the very divisiveness that fuels their progression. in case you missed it first time around, you now get a second chance to watch, in real time, the same strategic university narratives as they begin their next mighty roll: http://articles.philly.com/2010-10-05/news/24976839_1_drexel-university-neighborhood-university-city-district http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-18/news/29443549_1_drexel-campus-drexel-university-powelton-village [if you can detect the contradiction behind the fact that such articles even need to be written today, 15 years after penn has claimed such success in transforming university city, then count yourself as someone who's already pretty observant.] .. UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
In my years of experience on this listserv, I have found that the best way to read Glenn's posts involve substituting Penn or UCD or Clark Park Committee or whoever his bogeyman-du-jour is with the Martians, Sasquatch or, occasionally, the pixies that live in my teeth. Then I picture him typing away in his egg-stained bathrobe, an old remote control duct-taped to his forehead and his teeth blacked out with magic marker in an effort to keep the black helicopters from reading his neutral patterns. Not only its this immensely entertaining, but I have found that it diminishes the cogency, relevance and believability of his rants not one iota. - Mike V. Glenn glen...@earthlink.net wrote: On 4/29/2011 12:30 PM, Lalevic, Darco wrote: I apologize for any misinterpretation on my part, however the general tone of most of Glenn's emails is that the public is excluded from use of the park, of which I have seen little evidence Darco, You just did it again. Maybe if you would work on your reading skills, you would not be so annoyed and annoying. This is completely untrue! I have reported for the past 10 years that the public, and park user groups, have been intentionally excluded from the park planning meetings and the backroom deals regarding major changes to Clark Park. Why do you continue to seriously misrepresent my positions and then get annoyed at the false positions? If you agree with my big picture view, as you say, you would know that I am committed to the principals of democratic societies. Transparency and inclusion are the most fundamental principles of a republic, and when a society abandons these they will always lose their rights. Those principles and rights are not just vital for national issues but also for local issues. The idea that these principles can be abandoned in hopes of trickle down corporate money, and brought back when it's really important is absurd. That is the stupidity that caused the collapsing of America, and the evil that is being done to my oppressed brothers and sisters around the planet ! This slippery slope of part time principles, that you seem to have faith in, was rampant in this neighborhood. It compelled me to stand up to the mad rush for plutocracy, which was obvious under the Penn gentrification model ten years ago. I knew that I would be abused for taking a principled stand and for trying to get our sleepwalking neighbors to wake up! I happened to be quite involved with Clark Park when Penn decided to save the neighborhood, and called me and my neighbors criminals! I was in the position to blow the whistle and have always considered it my duty. I grow weary of his long rants and little factual evidence regarding the local conspiracy. What annoyed others, who've told me to shut up, was the incredible body of evidence that I made public using this listserv!Each time I publicly demanded the time, date, and location of secret meetings, I was in fact providing evidence that the public was excluded! Other readers could watch and see that West, Siano, etc. never ever gave the meeting information, but instead responded with a blitz of mean spirited comments attacking my character. They could look at the University City Review and see that the meetings, which should have been announced by order of the members of FOCP, were never there! And they were able to know that secret meetings were taking place at which they were unwelcome. The readers on this list have watched this evidence for years. I've continuously proved that these meetings were not public. Today, the Clark Park Partnership calls this exclusion, invitation only meetings. It's fact and if you don't believe me then you need to do a little work. What other evidence can I show you from secret meetings which none of us attended? Some people have recently thanked me for my dedication to blowing the whistle, and others who are not on this list, told me that they didn't know that these abuses were occurring. BUT THEY WISHED THEY HAD How do you respond to important evidence? Darco writes: My point is, the best evidence that Glenn can come up with is his denial to be on the dog committee. I can fully understand that, since I've rarely seen evidence of Glenn being compromising. So your response to evidence is nothing more than ad hominem! Ad hominem is a fallacy of logic too. For the past few years, FOCP leaders have claimed that their members can always join any committee, and I alone was unwelcome because I'm selfish. I provided you evidence that proved that was not true, whether or not you have the ability to understand it. It also proved that FOCP leaders continued to lie about inclusion continuously over many years. Why should I look for more evidence for you, when you can't understand it, and simply dismiss it as proof of my bad character? Regarding FOCP leaders, I'm not having a debate with reasonable mature
[UC] Why do they always respond with venom?
Neighbors, I hope you will consider why our neighborhood bosses always respond to serious posts with such mean spirited personal attacks.If serious posts about the issues of Clark Park are filled with lies, why wouldn't they once simply expose the lies, so that everyone else could dismiss me as a liar?They would look so professional instead of mean. I think that is a very important question for people to consider for their own benefit. For several years, we have always seen the same vicious responses by these community leaders serving the corporate gentrification, but have we ever seen them actually just expose a single lie?If the FOCP/UCD has always had open public inclusive meetings about the park redesign, why have West and Siano never silenced and embarrassed me with a straightforward response?They could simply list the dates that they put notices in the University City Review as their members asked for, and I would be proven a liar. It's hard to remember, but the latest hate posts started because I posted my experience about the history of the Clark Park privatization and redesign over the past ten years.I got a request from a newcomer, whom I don't know, to do so. I have detected a great deal of bewilderment, coming from diverse neighbors around the community, about the closing of Clark Park.Neighbors might remember that an article was published when the fence first went up, which indicated that a large number of people immediately felt deceived about the initial tree killings.My sense is that many more people are questioning, why the park has been closed and transformed, when they had only heard about a little maintenance. Don't the people asking questions and newcomers have the right to weigh my experiences against the deceptive misinformation they get from the civic association?I hope you all recognize their right to ask for my experiences, and that the hate posts are really meant to deny that right and honest information to them! I've blown the whistle about a lot of embarrassing secrets that are not consistent with people's understanding of fair play, democratic processes and citizen's right to participate concerning decisions about public lands. I'd do it again and will continue to do it. Well, the answer to my original question should be pretty obvious.The civic association leaders serving the transition to plutocracy cannot answer my questions or refute my assertions, because they have no refutation nor any lies to expose! How can the UCD or FOCP openly say they have public inclusive meetings when they have invitation only meetings?There's no conspiracy theory at work, but clear observable facts that any of you can verify.Whenever the ad hominem and straw men come out instead of a serious refutation, people need to start recognizing that those using these have no other alternative, and they also have no intention of coming clean or stopping their abuses!If you recognize that they have no alternative, spewing the continuous hate filled posts and using fallacious arguments makes perfect sense.In fact, it's the only answer that does make sense.It's a diversion, rather pathetic, to keep everyone away from learning the embarrassing truth about their abuses and betrayal. Are meetings public?This question has a real answer. And, Glenn is an awful evil liar does not actually answer the question.But I know the answer and they no the answer.Manipulating all of you is the real target of their venom! Let's not pretend that what is happening in our district has not also been happening across the country for a long time.People can continue to tune out reality as we are becoming slaves with no rights.Or they can stand up for principles and start confronting those abusing and enslaving them.I strongly believe we are past the point of no return in America.We had a chance to save the republic 10 years ago, but we lost our principles over the years.If we don't open our eyes and try to see what is happening, it is certainly too late. Glenn
Re: [UC] Why do they always respond with venom?
The Martians! The Martians are trying to silence me! Why won't people listen to the truth?! Can I be a neighborhood boss too? - Mike V. Glenn glen...@earthlink.net wrote: Neighbors, I hope you will consider why our neighborhood bosses always respond to serious posts with such mean spirited personal attacks.If serious posts about the issues of Clark Park are filled with lies, why wouldn't they once simply expose the lies, so that everyone else could dismiss me as a liar?They would look so professional instead of mean. I think that is a very important question for people to consider for their own benefit. For several years, we have always seen the same vicious responses by these community leaders serving the corporate gentrification, but have we ever seen them actually just expose a single lie?If the FOCP/UCD has always had open public inclusive meetings about the park redesign, why have West and Siano never silenced and embarrassed me with a straightforward response?They could simply list the dates that they put notices in the University City Review as their members asked for, and I would be proven a liar. It's hard to remember, but the latest hate posts started because I posted my experience about the history of the Clark Park privatization and redesign over the past ten years.I got a request from a newcomer, whom I don't know, to do so. I have detected a great deal of bewilderment, coming from diverse neighbors around the community, about the closing of Clark Park.Neighbors might remember that an article was published when the fence first went up, which indicated that a large number of people immediately felt deceived about the initial tree killings.My sense is that many more people are questioning, why the park has been closed and transformed, when they had only heard about a little maintenance. Don't the people asking questions and newcomers have the right to weigh my experiences against the deceptive misinformation they get from the civic association?I hope you all recognize their right to ask for my experiences, and that the hate posts are really meant to deny that right and honest information to them! I've blown the whistle about a lot of embarrassing secrets that are not consistent with people's understanding of fair play, democratic processes and citizen's right to participate concerning decisions about public lands. I'd do it again and will continue to do it. Well, the answer to my original question should be pretty obvious.The civic association leaders serving the transition to plutocracy cannot answer my questions or refute my assertions, because they have no refutation nor any lies to expose! How can the UCD or FOCP openly say they have public inclusive meetings when they have invitation only meetings?There's no conspiracy theory at work, but clear observable facts that any of you can verify.Whenever the ad hominem and straw men come out instead of a serious refutation, people need to start recognizing that those using these have no other alternative, and they also have no intention of coming clean or stopping their abuses!If you recognize that they have no alternative, spewing the continuous hate filled posts and using fallacious arguments makes perfect sense.In fact, it's the only answer that does make sense.It's a diversion, rather pathetic, to keep everyone away from learning the embarrassing truth about their abuses and betrayal. Are meetings public?This question has a real answer. And, Glenn is an awful evil liar does not actually answer the question.But I know the answer and they no the answer.Manipulating all of you is the real target of their venom! Let's not pretend that what is happening in our district has not also been happening across the country for a long time.People can continue to tune out reality as we are becoming slaves with no rights.Or they can stand up for principles and start confronting those abusing and enslaving them.I strongly believe we are past the point of no return in America.We had a chance to save the republic 10 years ago, but we lost our principles over the years.If we don't open our eyes and try to see what is happening, it is certainly too late. Glenn
Re: [UC] Why do they always respond with venom?
Mike V, I was really starting to think the reset thing was actually working; that is, until you slammed into the discussion and TILTED the darned machine two more times - again. Can you be a considerate and conscientious neighborhood participant yourself? Rick Conrad On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:33 PM, Mike V. wrote: The Martians! The Martians are trying to silence me! Why won't people listen to the truth?! Can I be a neighborhood boss too? - Mike V. Glenn glen...@earthlink.net wrote: Neighbors, I hope you will consider why our neighborhood bosses always respond to serious posts with such mean spirited personal attacks.If serious posts about the issues of Clark Park are filled with lies, why wouldn't they once simply expose the lies, so that everyone else could dismiss me as a liar?They would look so professional instead of mean. I think that is a very important question for people to consider for their own benefit. For several years, we have always seen the same vicious responses by these community leaders serving the corporate gentrification, but have we ever seen them actually just expose a single lie?If the FOCP/UCD has always had open public inclusive meetings about the park redesign, why have West and Siano never silenced and embarrassed me with a straightforward response?They could simply list the dates that they put notices in the University City Review as their members asked for, and I would be proven a liar. It's hard to remember, but the latest hate posts started because I posted my experience about the history of the Clark Park privatization and redesign over the past ten years.I got a request from a newcomer, whom I don't know, to do so. I have detected a great deal of bewilderment, coming from diverse neighbors around the community, about the closing of Clark Park.Neighbors might remember that an article was published when the fence first went up, which indicated that a large number of people immediately felt deceived about the initial tree killings.My sense is that many more people are questioning, why the park has been closed and transformed, when they had only heard about a little maintenance. Don't the people asking questions and newcomers have the right to weigh my experiences against the deceptive misinformation they get from the civic association?I hope you all recognize their right to ask for my experiences, and that the hate posts are really meant to deny that right and honest information to them! I've blown the whistle about a lot of embarrassing secrets that are not consistent with people's understanding of fair play, democratic processes and citizen's right to participate concerning decisions about public lands. I'd do it again and will continue to do it. Well, the answer to my original question should be pretty obvious.The civic association leaders serving the transition to plutocracy cannot answer my questions or refute my assertions, because they have no refutation nor any lies to expose! How can the UCD or FOCP openly say they have public inclusive meetings when they have invitation only meetings?There's no conspiracy theory at work, but clear observable facts that any of you can verify.Whenever the ad hominem and straw men come out instead of a serious refutation, people need to start recognizing that those using these have no other alternative, and they also have no intention of coming clean or stopping their abuses!If you recognize that they have no alternative, spewing the continuous hate filled posts and using fallacious arguments makes perfect sense.In fact, it's the only answer that does make sense.It's a diversion, rather pathetic, to keep everyone away from learning the embarrassing truth about their abuses and betrayal. Are meetings public?This question has a real answer. And, Glenn is an awful evil liar does not actually answer the question.But I know the answer and they no the answer.Manipulating all of you is the real target of their venom! Let's not pretend that what is happening in our district has not also been happening across the country for a long time.People can continue to tune out reality as we are becoming slaves with no rights.Or they can stand up for principles and start confronting those abusing and enslaving them.I strongly believe we are past the point of no return in America.We had a chance to save the republic 10 years ago, but we lost our principles over the years.If we don't open our eyes and try to see what is happening, it is certainly too late. Glenn You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the list named UnivCity. To unsubscribe or for archive information, see http://www.purple.com/list.html.
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
Thank you Darco very much... I was really not expecting an apology (despite my quixotic claim to the contrary), and even a terse, partial, and perhaps conditional one felt rather warm and fuzzy to me... You reason well and speak honestly and sincerely about your concerns but then you slam Glenn to the mat by 'representing' him through a broken glass bloodily. Your in-kind conciliation minus your harsh hyperbole is a clear and formidable formulaic success! Right or wrong your opinion can be judged on it's own merits without you also destroying Glenn's through your inappropriate 'restatements' of what he seems to you to have said. I do see a huge return to civility and somewhat of a return to mutual understanding and respect. As I said before, (though now let my sentiment be restated in Benj. Franklin's famous aphorism): we can all hang together or surely we will all hang separately. If you truly feel someone is running around screaming the sky is falling ask them to tone down their screaming. BUT! If you restate it as the sky is falling and what they actually said was it's raining more now than it used to do then it is you and not they who deserves strict censure. Rick Conrad On Apr 29, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Glenn wrote: On 4/29/2011 12:30 PM, Lalevic, Darco wrote: I apologize for any misinterpretation on my part, however the general tone of most of Glenn’s emails is that the public is excluded from use of the park, of which I have seen little evidence Darco, You just did it again. Maybe if you would work on your reading skills, you would not be so annoyed and annoying. This is completely untrue! I have reported for the past 10 years that the public, and park user groups, have been intentionally excluded from the park planning meetings and the backroom deals regarding major changes to Clark Park. Why do you continue to seriously misrepresent my positions and then get annoyed at the false positions? If you agree with my big picture view, as you say, you would know that I am committed to the principals of democratic societies. Transparency and inclusion are the most fundamental principles of a republic, and when a society abandons these they will always lose their rights. Those principles and rights are not just vital for national issues but also for local issues. The idea that these principles can be abandoned in hopes of trickle down corporate money, and brought back when it's really important is absurd. That is the stupidity that caused the collapsing of America, and the evil that is being done to my oppressed brothers and sisters around the planet ! This slippery slope of part time principles, that you seem to have faith in, was rampant in this neighborhood. It compelled me to stand up to the mad rush for plutocracy, which was obvious under the Penn gentrification model ten years ago. I knew that I would be abused for taking a principled stand and for trying to get our sleepwalking neighbors to wake up! I happened to be quite involved with Clark Park when Penn decided to save the neighborhood, and called me and my neighbors criminals! I was in the position to blow the whistle and have always considered it my duty. I grow weary of his long rants and little factual evidence regarding the local conspiracy. What annoyed others, who've told me to shut up, was the incredible body of evidence that I made public using this listserv! Each time I publicly demanded the time, date, and location of secret meetings, I was in fact providing evidence that the public was excluded! Other readers could watch and see that West, Siano, etc. never ever gave the meeting information, but instead responded with a blitz of mean spirited comments attacking my character. They could look at the University City Review and see that the meetings, which should have been announced by order of the members of FOCP, were never there! And they were able to know that secret meetings were taking place at which they were unwelcome. The readers on this list have watched this evidence for years. I've continuously proved that these meetings were not public. Today, the Clark Park Partnership calls this exclusion, invitation only meetings. It's fact and if you don't believe me then you need to do a little work. What other evidence can I show you from secret meetings which none of us attended? Some people have recently thanked me for my dedication to blowing the whistle, and others who are not on this list, told me that they didn't know that these abuses were occurring. BUT THEY WISHED THEY HAD How do you respond to important evidence? Darco writes: My point is, the best evidence that Glenn can come up with is his denial to be on the dog committee. I can fully understand that, since I’ve rarely seen evidence of Glenn being compromising. So your response to evidence is
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
One thing seems to ring true, very sad, but sometimes also true I should say... In the realm of political debate: One often only does one's best work when one's adversaries make it particularly difficult to do it! Now, enough! Let us start to get along DAMN IT! On Apr 29, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Glenn wrote: On 4/29/2011 12:30 PM, Lalevic, Darco wrote: I apologize for any misinterpretation on my part, however the general tone of most of Glenn’s emails is that the public is excluded from use of the park, of which I have seen little evidence Darco, You just did it again. Maybe if you would work on your reading skills, you would not be so annoyed and annoying. This is completely untrue! I have reported for the past 10 years that the public, and park user groups, have been intentionally excluded from the park planning meetings and the backroom deals regarding major changes to Clark Park. Why do you continue to seriously misrepresent my positions and then get annoyed at the false positions? If you agree with my big picture view, as you say, you would know that I am committed to the principals of democratic societies. Transparency and inclusion are the most fundamental principles of a republic, and when a society abandons these they will always lose their rights. Those principles and rights are not just vital for national issues but also for local issues. The idea that these principles can be abandoned in hopes of trickle down corporate money, and brought back when it's really important is absurd. That is the stupidity that caused the collapsing of America, and the evil that is being done to my oppressed brothers and sisters around the planet ! This slippery slope of part time principles, that you seem to have faith in, was rampant in this neighborhood. It compelled me to stand up to the mad rush for plutocracy, which was obvious under the Penn gentrification model ten years ago. I knew that I would be abused for taking a principled stand and for trying to get our sleepwalking neighbors to wake up! I happened to be quite involved with Clark Park when Penn decided to save the neighborhood, and called me and my neighbors criminals! I was in the position to blow the whistle and have always considered it my duty. I grow weary of his long rants and little factual evidence regarding the local conspiracy. What annoyed others, who've told me to shut up, was the incredible body of evidence that I made public using this listserv! Each time I publicly demanded the time, date, and location of secret meetings, I was in fact providing evidence that the public was excluded! Other readers could watch and see that West, Siano, etc. never ever gave the meeting information, but instead responded with a blitz of mean spirited comments attacking my character. They could look at the University City Review and see that the meetings, which should have been announced by order of the members of FOCP, were never there! And they were able to know that secret meetings were taking place at which they were unwelcome. The readers on this list have watched this evidence for years. I've continuously proved that these meetings were not public. Today, the Clark Park Partnership calls this exclusion, invitation only meetings. It's fact and if you don't believe me then you need to do a little work. What other evidence can I show you from secret meetings which none of us attended? Some people have recently thanked me for my dedication to blowing the whistle, and others who are not on this list, told me that they didn't know that these abuses were occurring. BUT THEY WISHED THEY HAD How do you respond to important evidence? Darco writes: My point is, the best evidence that Glenn can come up with is his denial to be on the dog committee. I can fully understand that, since I’ve rarely seen evidence of Glenn being compromising. So your response to evidence is nothing more than ad hominem! Ad hominem is a fallacy of logic too. For the past few years, FOCP leaders have claimed that their members can always join any committee, and I alone was unwelcome because I'm selfish. I provided you evidence that proved that was not true, whether or not you have the ability to understand it. It also proved that FOCP leaders continued to lie about inclusion continuously over many years. Why should I look for more evidence for you, when you can't understand it, and simply dismiss it as proof of my bad character? Regarding FOCP leaders, I'm not having a debate with reasonable mature neighbors. I've concentrated on exposing bullying, lies, processes unacceptable to any neighborhood in a democratic society, etc. Under these conditions, compromising is an absurd choice for your words. How exactly does one compromise when power is abused to bully? How did I organize Clark Park
Re: [UC] Clark Park Secrecy, 01-11
Darco and Tony, There is a way to be sure we are getting onto the same page... YOU HAVE SAID THAT NO ONE IS EXCLUDED FROM THE PARK. SO THERE SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM WITH CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHTS (eg.): TO PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY TO PETITION FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES, BEING EXERCISED THEREIN? On Apr 29, 2011, at 5:47 PM, Glenn Moyer wrote: The department of Recreation works for the taxpayers and is required to protect the rights of all citizens as directed by the US Constitution. Not more than a couple days ago the Supreme Court by a (5-4) or ($-4) vote, ignored the MAJOR body of definitions and precedents regarding CONTRACT LAW and FRAUD by saying a company (ATT) could exclude patrons of due process - in recourse to Class Action Suits - merely by the insertion IN FINE PRINT of a clause stating that such was the case +/or a condition of having services provided through the contract(s). IT TOTALLY BOGGLES MY MIND and I just hope and pray that MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WILL SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING and SHARE MY ANGST! It basically said that Corporations could make up the rules and ignore the concepts of FAIR actions in regards to contractual understandings. The constitution has been interpreted as protecting all our rights against (for what should be an ABSURD example), deceitful intent to deprive citizens of basic interests in regards to life, liberty, and property. If that is not a class action what the hell is?? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-arkush/us-supreme-court-to-major_b_854714.html U.S. Supreme Court to Major Corporations: You Write the Rules pubc.it On Wednesday, the U.S. Supreme Court sided with ATT in ATT Mobility v. Concepcion -- a decision with devastating consequences for consumer protection and civil rights. I actually believe Penn is fairly trustworthy to make decisions when I am not involved... I REALLY want that to be true! BUT I AM DAMNED SURE THE FIVE JUSTICES OF THE SUPREME COURT WHO MADE THIS AND MANY, MANY, LIKE DECISIONS, ARE NOT NOT! CAPABLE OF ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE CITIZENS NOR SERVING THE CONSTITUTION!!! NOT! CAPABLE OF SERVING IN GOOD BEHAVIOR! AS SOON AS CLARK PARK IS AVAILABLE AGAIN I SUGGEST WE USE IT FOR PEACEABLE ASSEMBLY... TO CONDUCT TEACH-INS... TO FOSTER GATHERINGS OF MASS CONSCIOUSNESS... AND TO DISCUSS AND ACT UPON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES.
