Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Just an observation, but isn't 2.2 a redesign from 2.1.x branch that significantly restructured Cocoon (Maven, CForms, XSP deprecated, etc)? 2.1.x is legacy as 1.8.x is now legacy. 2.2 would be current and 2.3/3.0 development/experimental. Debian has 4 Branches. At least if all possible their should be a Sid/Unstable branch that isn't Experimental and isn't Stable for Cocoon that would allow us to use most of the modern features in Java 5, let alone Java 6 when it rolls out from Beta and Release Candidate statuses. What still seems to be dead in the water is Documentation and I mean documentation that reminds one of the Cocoon Developer Handbook by Moczar/Aston. I recall about 9 months ago that this was a priority. From the Cocoon site I don't see it has reached fruition. I see a lot of documentation fractured across the Net via various wikis and other individual sites but I don't see a repository of Documentation that one can funnel that provides these practical/best practices, hands-on tutorials that were envisioned. Correct me if I'm wrong. - Marc --- Grzegorz Kossakowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marc Driftmeyer napisaÅ(a): > > If Banking Institutions are the reason then we should fork the tree > to > > have two branches ala Firefox. > > > > One that targets legacy systems and the other for moving the system > > forward. > > > There are already two branches! One "2.1.x" and another "trunk". When > we > C2.2 is out, then we have three branches: 2.1.x, 2.2.x, trunk. Trunk > would be used as line for 2.3/3.0 development, there would go stuff > like > OSGi. 2.1.x branch would be maintain only for critical bugs and fixes > > but it is what should banking institutions expect. Now, being stuck > with > Java 1.4 they do not expect it to support annotations in the future. > Why > they should not go for the same when it comes to Cocoon? > > -- > Grzegorz Kossakowski > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Bruce Atherton wrote: Reinhard Poetz wrote: Many thanks to everybody, who has participated so far, for your feedback. On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we voted about it and the voting proposal was rejected. The main reason is that large organizations (e.g. banks) are years behind in their usage of new JDK releases and that we haven't found _the_ feature of Java 5 that justifies the switch. That is a shame. If this were the only criterion, Cocoon will not be able to use the features of Java 5 for 20 years or more. Think how many Cobol programmers were fully employed leading up to Y2K. I imagine that some banks are still using JVM 1.2 now (and I doubt that Cocoon 2.2 is compatible with that). I have faith that concern for ultra-conservative organizations isn't the only consideration the developers are using, though. So have they decided what will finally allow a move to Java 5? Just so we know when we can look forward to it. I am finding this conversation very interesting. Mainly because I don't quite follow the logic. If a company is so backwards that they are still on JDK 1.3, why on earth would they be using a heavy weight, bleeding edge system like Cocoon. There are probably good reasons not to go to Java 5, but I am not sold that the one given is the right one. I'd be interested to know what companies are banking (pardon the pun) on Cocoon, but are still in locked in the 1990's. Is there are survey on Cocoon usage out there? -- Kamal Bhatt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Grzegorz Kossakowski escribió: Marc Driftmeyer napisaÅ‚(a): If Banking Institutions are the reason then we should fork the tree to have two branches ala Firefox. One that targets legacy systems and the other for moving the system forward. There are already two branches! One "2.1.x" and another "trunk". When we C2.2 is out, then we have three branches: 2.1.x, 2.2.x, trunk. Trunk would be used as line for 2.3/3.0 development, there would go stuff like OSGi. 2.1.x branch would be maintain only for critical bugs and fixes but it is what should banking institutions expect. Now, being stuck with Java 1.4 they do not expect it to support annotations in the future. Why they should not go for the same when it comes to Cocoon? I hope our developers will agree to use 1.5 for 2.3/3.0. ;-) Best Regards, Antonio Gallardo. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Marc Driftmeyer napisał(a): If Banking Institutions are the reason then we should fork the tree to have two branches ala Firefox. One that targets legacy systems and the other for moving the system forward. There are already two branches! One "2.1.x" and another "trunk". When we C2.2 is out, then we have three branches: 2.1.x, 2.2.x, trunk. Trunk would be used as line for 2.3/3.0 development, there would go stuff like OSGi. 2.1.x branch would be maintain only for critical bugs and fixes but it is what should banking institutions expect. Now, being stuck with Java 1.4 they do not expect it to support annotations in the future. Why they should not go for the same when it comes to Cocoon? -- Grzegorz Kossakowski - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
If Banking Institutions are the reason then we should fork the tree to have two branches ala Firefox. One that targets legacy systems and the other for moving the system forward. - Marc --- Bruce Atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Reinhard Poetz wrote: > > > > Many thanks to everybody, who has participated so far, for your > feedback. > > > > On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we voted about it and the voting proposal was > rejected. > > The main reason is that large organizations (e.g. banks) are years > > behind in their usage of new JDK releases and that we haven't found > > > _the_ feature of Java 5 that justifies the switch. > > > > That is a shame. If this were the only criterion, Cocoon will not be > able to use the features of Java 5 for 20 years or more. Think how > many > Cobol programmers were fully employed leading up to Y2K. I imagine > that > some banks are still using JVM 1.2 now (and I doubt that Cocoon 2.2 > is > compatible with that). > > I have faith that concern for ultra-conservative organizations isn't > the > only consideration the developers are using, though. So have they > decided what will finally allow a move to Java 5? Just so we know > when > we can look forward to it. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz wrote: Many thanks to everybody, who has participated so far, for your feedback. On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we voted about it and the voting proposal was rejected. The main reason is that large organizations (e.g. banks) are years behind in their usage of new JDK releases and that we haven't found _the_ feature of Java 5 that justifies the switch. That is a shame. If this were the only criterion, Cocoon will not be able to use the features of Java 5 for 20 years or more. Think how many Cobol programmers were fully employed leading up to Y2K. I imagine that some banks are still using JVM 1.2 now (and I doubt that Cocoon 2.2 is compatible with that). I have faith that concern for ultra-conservative organizations isn't the only consideration the developers are using, though. So have they decided what will finally allow a move to Java 5? Just so we know when we can look forward to it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz wrote: Many thanks to everybody, who has participated so far, for your feedback. On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we voted about it and the voting proposal was rejected. The main reason is that large organizations (e.g. banks) are years behind in their usage of new JDK releases and that we haven't found _the_ feature of Java 5 that justifies the switch. I should point out that this in no way limits users from using Java 5. It just means that Cocoon 2.2 will not require Java 5 as the minimum JDK version (It will be JDK 1.4). Ralph - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cocoon is a "bleeding-edge"?! ( WAS Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2)
Quote: "I use cocoon because I like bleeding-edge technologies" Surely Cocoon is an incredibly stable, mainstream application by now - in the same ball-park as Struts et al. After all, its been around about 7 years! "Ruby on rails"... now *that* might be "bleeding-edge"! >>> Johannes Textor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2006/08/16 09:04 PM >>> +1 This comes from my user perspective, since I don't normally depend on large entities to host my applications, but can rather set up my own servers and install the software I need. In fact, I think that entities with a more conservative migration strategy would not typically use cocoon to develop their applications - but maybe I'm wrong. I use cocoon because I like bleeding-edge technologies when I see clear benefits in them. Interestingly, I haven't made the switch to Java 5 for programming tasks yet .. in fact, if cocoon requires J5 in the future, this might be a reason to finally upgrade my java versions :) Cheers, Johannes > The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a > hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. > > Your opinion is appreciated! > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright, terms and conditions and e-mail legal notice. Views expressed herein do not necessarily represent the views of the CSIR. CSIR E-mail Legal Notice http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_eMail_Legal_Notice.html CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions http://mail.csir.co.za/CSIR_Copyright.html For electronic copies of the CSIR Copyright, Terms and Conditions and the CSIR Legal Notice send a blank message with REQUEST LEGAL in the subject line to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5
becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this
discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3.
The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years
ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler
loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes.
As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base.
Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch
release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the
next months, which might be the last one of this series.
The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a
hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not.
Your opinion is appreciated!
Many thanks to everybody, who has participated so far, for your feedback.
On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we voted about it and the voting proposal was rejected. The main
reason is that large organizations (e.g. banks) are years behind in their usage
of new JDK releases and that we haven't found _the_ feature of Java 5 that
justifies the switch.
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
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Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
+1 This comes from my user perspective, since I don't normally depend on large entities to host my applications, but can rather set up my own servers and install the software I need. In fact, I think that entities with a more conservative migration strategy would not typically use cocoon to develop their applications - but maybe I'm wrong. I use cocoon because I like bleeding-edge technologies when I see clear benefits in them. Interestingly, I haven't made the switch to Java 5 for programming tasks yet .. in fact, if cocoon requires J5 in the future, this might be a reason to finally upgrade my java versions :) Cheers, Johannes > The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a > hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. > > Your opinion is appreciated! > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
+1 Erron On 8/16/06, Ralph Skulbörstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: +1Ralph--Meddelandet har kontrollerats mot virus samt skadligtinnehåll av MailScanner och förmodas vara säkert. -To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
+1 Ralph -- Meddelandet har kontrollerats mot virus samt skadligt innehåll av MailScanner och förmodas vara säkert. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
+1, Java 1.5 has been here for a while and several projects which we depend on are going to 1.5 as well Reinhard Poetz wrote: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3. The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes. As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series. The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. Your opinion is appreciated! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz wrote: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. +1 Askild - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Count this as a big +1 from me. We only run cocoon in a Java 5 VM anyway. The Concurrency package alone is a big reason to adopt Java 5. The speed of many algorithms can be vastly improved, as well as being made more thread-safe. Then there is the enhanced type safety you get with generics. You can even get significant code reduction while maintaining type safety when generics are properly applied, by removing duplicated code that changes only by its type. If you wait until after 2.2 is released to upgrade the required JVM for cocoon, you then have to worry about how many existing 2.2 users you leave high and dry. By making the move at this time, there is a logical break. Any users that want to use an earlier VM can still use the 2.1 branch. Presumably the 2.1 branch will be maintained as a bug-fix branch, which probably wouldn't be the case for some 2.2.x release if you decided to up the required JVM for the 2.2.x+1 release. Also, there are projects around that let you run Java 5 code on earlier VMs, so if someone really needed to run Cocoon 2.2 on an older JVM they could look into that. In summary: Just Giv'er! Reinhard Poetz wrote: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3. The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes. As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series. The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. Your opinion is appreciated! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
> -Original Message- > From: Reinhard Poetz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make > Java 5 becoming the > minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. I've been using Java 5 for deployment for some time so it isn't a problem for me. There will probably be people still using older versions of Java who will want to migrate but if you can reduce development time or speed up the system by using features in Java 5 then I say go for it. Gary * The information contained in this message may be confidential or legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only. If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Count me in for Java 5. I've got some concerns with Maven on Debian not
having Maven 2 in its Unstable branch but I'll get over that one.
On OS X Java 5 has been standard for quite sometime. Working with Java
5 for WebObjects or Cocoon2.2 solely would be nice. Java 6 previews are
also installed which I haven't had time to study.
- Marc
--- Reinhard Poetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5
> becoming the
> minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is
> completly
> unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3.
>
> The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years
> ago, are
> the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop
> syntax, and
> many small improvements to a lot of classes.
>
> As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user
> base. Hence
> people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch
> release. We plan
> to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months,
> which might be
> the last one of this series.
>
> The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is
> a hurdle
> for people who plan to migrate or not.
>
> Your opinion is appreciated!
>
> --
> Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
>
> {Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
>
> web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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> Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
>
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Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz wrote: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3. The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes. As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series. The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. Your opinion is appreciated! +1, The company I work at switched the production java applications to Java 5 this year. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
werner napisał(a): +1 * Cocoon was always "next generation" technology. I think it's more fun for the developers to work with Java 5. Fun is an important factor in open source projects. * It will take some time until a new stable Cocoon 2.2 will be out and it will take much more time until people have migrated their applications. The migration work has to be done anyway. +1 for all arguments and whole idea -- Grzegorz Kossakowski - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz ha scritto: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3. The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes. As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series. The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. Your opinion is appreciated! +1 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Reinhard Poetz wrote: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3. The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes. As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series. The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. Your opinion is appreciated! +1 * Cocoon was always "next generation" technology. I think it's more fun for the developers to work with Java 5. Fun is an important factor in open source projects. * It will take some time until a new stable Cocoon 2.2 will be out and it will take much more time until people have migrated their applications. The migration work has to be done anyway. Regards Werner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
I think, we should, given also that Java 6 is in the pipeline. Reinhard Poetz wrote: On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3. The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes. As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series. The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not. Your opinion is appreciated! -- Andre H. Juffer | Phone: +358-8-553 1161 The Biocenter and| Fax: +358-8-553-1141 the Dep. of Biochemistry | Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Oulu, Finland | WWW: www.biochem.oulu.fi/Biocomputing/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [poll] Java 5 as minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2
Fine by me.>>> Reinhard Poetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 2006/08/10 11:32 AM >>>
On [EMAIL PROTECTED] we have started to dicuss whether we can make Java 5 becoming the minimum requirement for Cocoon 2.2. Note that this discussion is completly unrelated to Cocoon 2.1 which needs JDK 1.3.The arguments pro Java 5 which was officially releases almost 2 years ago, are the support of generics, annotations, build-in JMX, simpler loop syntax, and many small improvements to a lot of classes.As Cocoon 2.2 hasn't been released yet, there is no existing user base. Hence people are not forced to use Java 5 just because of a new patch release. We plan to do a release based on the 2.1.X branch within the next months, which might be the last one of this series.The question now is whether making Java 5 the minimum requirement is a hurdle for people who plan to migrate or not.Your opinion is appreciated!-- Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach {Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon} web(log): http://www.poetz.cc ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de-To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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