Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi, I know this book: http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/whitepapers/Creating_large_documents_with_OOo.odt It's an old book, and is writed for OpenOffice, but the most important part is the same, and you can reuse in LibreOffice. I know an another book for you, but it's exists only in Hungarian: http://numbertext.org/libreoffice/libreoffice.pdf is a hybrid PDF, the PDF file contains the source of the book in ODT format. Probably you don't understand it, but can see come stuff that can do with LibreOffice and Graphite technology. 2013.07.08. 7:34 keltezéssel, Pablo Dotro írta: Greetings! I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the form of a self published, free ebook. And while I have created very long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a book. Having been using word processing software for a living for the last 15 years or so, I thought myself as "power user" enough to take the next step and try to create my document relying on Writer's features and not depending on someone else to typeset the material. However, after reading both the "Getting Started" and the "Writer Guide", I am convinced that it is possible. Heh, the mere existance of those books is proof enough ;-) But I find that there is a gap between the techniques described there for working with templates, styles and master documents... and the actual craft needed to make them work. A quick look to the odt files themselves convinced me of that. So after some googling and a disappointint amazon search on books on this subject, I come here to rely on our collective knowledge, with a question: Does anyone know about a tutorial, book or website where I can specifically learn about creating a book-lenght document, with chapters (as subdocuments) and a master document, consistent styling, indexing and table of contents with Libreoffice? Thnk you very much for your time, and best regards, -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I have seen quote a bit of argument against using a master document for a book as I was exploring this subject just recently as well. The help docs of course are a good place to start. https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Master_Documents_and_Subdocuments There are a number of different tools for moving from LO to epub. There is the new eLAIX extension, Writer2epub, and you can also export as docxml and then use pandoc which will create epub3 docs for you. I used to use eScape but that is no longer supported, though it still works. The folk at infogridpacific looked like they were going to move it to an online service but it looks like that project was killed and that they are concentrating on their Digital publisher solution. On 7/8/13 5:44 AM, Nagy Ákos wrote: > Hi, > > I know this book: > http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/whitepapers/Creating_large_documents_with_OOo.odt > > It's an old book, and is writed for OpenOffice, but the most important > part is the same, and you can reuse in LibreOffice. > > I know an another book for you, but it's exists only in Hungarian: > http://numbertext.org/libreoffice/libreoffice.pdf > is a hybrid PDF, the PDF file contains the source of the book in ODT > format. Probably you don't understand it, but can see come stuff that > can do with LibreOffice and Graphite technology. > > 2013.07.08. 7:34 keltezéssel, Pablo Dotro írta: >> Greetings! >> >> I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take >> the form of a self published, free ebook. And while I have created >> very long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a >> book. >> Having been using word processing software for a living for the last >> 15 years or so, I thought myself as "power user" enough to take the >> next step and try to create my document relying on Writer's features >> and not depending on someone else to typeset the material. >> However, after reading both the "Getting Started" and the "Writer >> Guide", I am convinced that it is possible. Heh, the mere existance >> of those books is proof enough ;-) But I find that there is a gap >> between the techniques described there for working with templates, >> styles and master documents... and the actual craft needed to make >> them work. A quick look to the odt files themselves convinced me of >> that. >> So after some googling and a disappointint amazon search on books on >> this subject, I come here to rely on our collective knowledge, with a >> question: >> >> Does anyone know about a tutorial, book or website where I can >> specifically learn about creating a book-lenght document, with >> chapters (as subdocuments) and a master document, consistent styling, >> indexing and table of contents with Libreoffice? >> >> Thnk you very much for your time, and best regards, >> > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I'll probably be (justifiably) ostracized for this on a LO user list, but to me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not be worth it. In my mind, Writer is a business application, useful for letters, memos, legal documents, school reports, and the like. While I love working with LO's styles (which would be essential for book writing), I find LO's implementation of master documents to be too involved and clunky for my taste. For organizing a book length document, with parts, chapters, and tables, indexes, and sub-documents, etc, I much prefer LyX and LaTeX, both of which are free and opensource. Yes, the LaTeX learning curve can be steep, but LyX makes it so much easier. You can type away and let the computer do the formatting, just by selecting the Book class. Unlike the business oriented LO, LyX and LaTeX were created specifically for making long documents such as books. Round hole, round peg. The biggest drawback is that changing default formatting settings can be daunting for the uninitiated. But, if you accept the defaults, you'll still have a beautifully formatted book with *much* less effort than you would with LO. For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. Instead, I saved the document as a plain text file, stripping all formatting. I then loaded it into LyX. Using the Book class (think template), I applied Part and Chapter styles, (called "environments" in LaTeX speak) to the part and chapter titles, and then inserted a fully formatted, numbered, and typed table of contents with a couple mouse clicks. I set NO page formatting parameters such as page margins, page numbering, etc., as those were handled entirely by the Book class. I then compiled the book and had a fully formatted novel, complete with Title page, Table of Contents, properly formatted right and left hand pages with fully formatted headers with page numbers, etc. The entire formatting process took about a half hour. I surprised even myself. I could have done the same thing with LO's styles and master documents, but they're not quite as fully automatic as LyX/LaTeX, so it would have longer. So far, however, I've found LyX/LaTeX's support for e-books to be a little lacking (but no more so than LO's). For storing documents in an e-book format (whether Nook's Epub, or Kindle's MOBI), the best solution that I've found is Atlantis (a $35.00 shareware program). It is a Word clone word processor that supports direct export to Epub and MOBI with preservation of nearly all formatting. Every other solution I've tried (including LO, LyX, and Markdown editors) screws up formatting to some degree or another. Atlantis does 90% of what I need in a word processor, with the sole exception of tables. In short, while I love LO, I honestly think there are better tools for the task of book and e-book writing. Virgil 2013.07.08. 7:34 keltezéssel, Pablo Dotro írta: Greetings! I am beginning a large writing project, that will most probably take the form of a self published, free ebook. And while I have created very long, complex documents before, I have never formatted them as a book. Having been using word processing software for a living for the last 15 years or so, I thought myself as "power user" enough to take the next step and try to create my document relying on Writer's features and not depending on someone else to typeset the material. However, after reading both the "Getting Started" and the "Writer Guide", I am convinced that it is possible. Heh, the mere existance of those books is proof enough ;-) But I find that there is a gap between the techniques described there for working with templates, styles and master documents... and the actual craft needed to make them work. A quick look to the odt files themselves convinced me of that. So after some googling and a disappointint amazon search on books on this subject, I come here to rely on our collective knowledge, with a question: Does anyone know about a tutorial, book or website where I can specifically learn about creating a book-lenght document, with chapters (as subdocuments) and a master document, consistent styling, indexing and table of contents with Libreoffice? Thnk you very much for your time, and best regards, -
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: > but to > me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square > peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not > be worth it. I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a book. As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks. They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with nice note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs you do not have to. As for publishing (making it look beautiful), LaTeX classes and forced separation of structure and look usually provides better defaults than Writer. Agreed. But then, we talk about defaults. It's not like you can't change them. If you learn your tools and think in advance, create decent-looking long document in Writer can be done with little hassle. I have created and edited some long (100+ pages) documents in Writer and never seen anything in LaTeX that would be a dealbreaker for me. If anywhere, I would go to full-fledged DTP suite such as Adobe InDesign. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Miroslaw, You're right; I did merge *writing* and *publishing*. To that end, let me muddy the waters even more by mentioning yWriter, a software program designed specifically and solely for writing novels with many of the tools you suggest. The frustration that I've found is that there are some publishing (or formatting) tasks that are best handled completely separate from writing, such as page layout, font selection, table of contents generation, etc. However, I find other formatting tasks are better handled on the fly while typing, such as applying italics to a word. Sometimes, I find seeing the paragraph layout onscreen helpful to organizing my thoughts, which of course you won't see with a strict text editor or pure LaTeX editor. At least LyX helps by showing some formatting onscreen. Anytime I use a program like yWriter, I end up spending a lot of time later applying formatting that I could have applied on the fly with a decent word processor. That may not be a concern for a person whose work will be published, and therefore formatted, by someone else, like a professional publishing house. But, the original poster mentioned self-publishing an e-book. Virgil -Original Message- From: Mirosław Zalewski Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 5:51 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: but to me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not be worth it. I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a book. As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks. They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with nice note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs you do not have to. As for publishing (making it look beautiful), LaTeX classes and forced separation of structure and look usually provides better defaults than Writer. Agreed. But then, we talk about defaults. It's not like you can't change them. If you learn your tools and think in advance, create decent-looking long document in Writer can be done with little hassle. I have created and edited some long (100+ pages) documents in Writer and never seen anything in LaTeX that would be a dealbreaker for me. If anywhere, I would go to full-fledged DTP suite such as Adobe InDesign. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hello Virgil! On 08/07/13 17:58, Virgil Arrington wrote: I'll probably be (justifiably) ostracized for this on a LO user list, but to me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not be worth it. In my mind, Writer is a business application, useful for letters, memos, legal documents, school reports, and the like. While I love working with LO's styles (which would be essential for book writing), I find LO's implementation of master documents to be too involved and clunky for my taste. Hehehe. Don't worry, I won't ostracize you. For organizing a book length document, with parts, chapters, and tables, indexes, and sub-documents, etc, I much prefer LyX and LaTeX, both of which are free and opensource. Yes, the LaTeX learning curve can be steep, but LyX makes it so much easier. You can type away and let the computer do the formatting, just by selecting the Book class. Unlike the business oriented LO, LyX and LaTeX were created specifically for making long documents such as books. Round hole, round peg. The biggest drawback is that changing default formatting settings can be daunting for the uninitiated. But, if you accept the defaults, you'll still have a beautifully formatted book with *much* less effort than you would with LO. I know... I am familiar with LaTeX and LyX. My day job is at the Physics Deptartment at a local Univesity, and we use them a lot for reports and papers. My problem is that I *do* want to give my document a distinctive visual format, with nice typography and so on... and writinf a LaTeX class or the LyX equivalent is beyond my skill level. And since I am not that fluent with LaTeX (I've personally never wrote anything complex with it), I wanted to use a more point-and-click approach, to able to focus on my subject matter and not so much in learning new tools at the same time. Another reason is that the small printing houses around here who may be able to do some small self publish job for me are all set up for files in PDF or MS Word .doc format. My experience with LaTeX to Word conversion is that the result is quite ugly. For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. Instead, I saved the document as a plain text file, stripping all formatting. I then loaded it into LyX. Using the Book class (think template), I applied Part and Chapter styles, (called "environments" in LaTeX speak) to the part and chapter titles, and then inserted a fully formatted, numbered, and typed table of contents with a couple mouse clicks. I set NO page formatting parameters such as page margins, page numbering, etc., as those were handled entirely by the Book class. I then compiled the book and had a fully formatted novel, complete with Title page, Table of Contents, properly formatted right and left hand pages with fully formatted headers with page numbers, etc. The entire formatting process took about a half hour. I surprised even myself. Uh WP. That brings back memories ;-) In that specific case, I too would have turned to LaTeX. And don't take me wrong, I fully appreciate the need to separate format from content in a project this size. I could have done the same thing with LO's styles and master documents, but they're not quite as fully automatic as LyX/LaTeX, so it would have longer. So far, however, I've found LyX/LaTeX's support for e-books to be a little lacking (but no more so than LO's). For storing documents in an e-book format (whether Nook's Epub, or Kindle's MOBI), the best solution that I've found is Atlantis (a $35.00 shareware program). It is a Word clone word processor that supports direct export to Epub and MOBI with preservation of nearly all formatting. Every other solution I've tried (including LO, LyX, and Markdown editors) screws up formatting to some degree or another. Atlantis does 90% of what I need in a word processor, with the sole exception of tables. In short, while I love LO, I honestly think there are better tools for the task of book and e-book writing. I thank you for your time and effort. I would prefer to stick to using LO... I seriously considered turning to LaTeX, but I truly feel a little overwhelmed with the amount of learning I would need to do in order to reach the same formatting proficiency I have w
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi! On 08/07/13 18:51, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: but to me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not be worth it. I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a book. As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks. They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with nice note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs you do not have to. Heh, you are right. Even if this is more of a technical writing project than a novel, None of these tools are really focused on the high level creative process. Both are tools for creating the output of said process. My approach is to keep detailed paper notes ;-) As for publishing (making it look beautiful), LaTeX classes and forced separation of structure and look usually provides better defaults than Writer. Agreed. But then, we talk about defaults. It's not like you can't change them. If you learn your tools and think in advance, create decent-looking long document in Writer can be done with little hassle. I have created and edited some long (100+ pages) documents in Writer and never seen anything in LaTeX that would be a dealbreaker for me. If anywhere, I would go to full-fledged DTP suite such as Adobe InDesign. That's my problem. I do not want LaTeX defaults. I want a distinctive format appealing to not only the geeky tech/science community, but to people who are not into technology. LaTeX produces beautiful output... but it's "too serious" for my target audience. The Right Thing to do, if this would have been a commercial or for-hire job, would be to hire a designer to use DTP tools and typeset my text. but it's not, and it's just me, so I am trying to get the most out of my experience and training ;-) Anyway, thanks for trying to help. I really appreciate the response of the community :-) -- Pablo M. Dotro wiz...@elysium.com.arpdo...@df.uba.ar pdo...@gmail.com Twitter: @Pablo_El_Mago http://www.blog.elysium.com.ar -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 08/07/13 10:44, Nagy Ákos wrote: Hi, I know this book: http://www.openoffice.org/documentation/whitepapers/Creating_large_documents_with_OOo.odt It's an old book, and is writed for OpenOffice, but the most important part is the same, and you can reuse in LibreOffice. I know an another book for you, but it's exists only in Hungarian: http://numbertext.org/libreoffice/libreoffice.pdf is a hybrid PDF, the PDF file contains the source of the book in ODT format. Probably you don't understand it, but can see come stuff that can do with LibreOffice and Graphite technology. You are right, Hungarian is not my thing hehehe. But I downloaded your first suggestion, and it's very informative. Thank you very much! When this is over, if I manage to get it right, I will write a how-to document with my experience ;-) Again, thanks for the references! -- Pablo M. Dotro wiz...@elysium.com.arpdo...@df.uba.ar pdo...@gmail.com Twitter: @Pablo_El_Mago http://www.blog.elysium.com.ar -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 08/07/13 14:30, Marc Grober wrote: I have seen quote a bit of argument against using a master document for a book as I was exploring this subject just recently as well. The help docs of course are a good place to start. https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Master_Documents_and_Subdocuments There are a number of different tools for moving from LO to epub. There is the new eLAIX extension, Writer2epub, and you can also export as docxml and then use pandoc which will create epub3 docs for you. I used to use eScape but that is no longer supported, though it still works. The folk at infogridpacific looked like they were going to move it to an online service but it looks like that project was killed and that they are concentrating on their Digital publisher solution. Hi! Thanks. I went through that. It's well written. It helped me to understand the concept. But It's a little shy on the actual practice. I've been experimenting with templates and a set of test documents, with mixed results. I notice that master documents tend to elicit a love-hate relationship: some people think they are The Right Thing, others that they are worse than accepting a ring from Sauron hehehe. I had bad experiences dabbling with them in MS Word a few years ago, and I never touched them again. I've also experienced that Writer is a lot more stable than MS Word when dealing with very long documents and complex formatting (embedded images, tables, crossreferences, etc.), but I never have used it for anything over 100-120 pages long. I expect my current assignment to reach around 500 pages easily, with math, complex tables and so on. When I read the "Writer's Guide", I came across the suggestion that a master document and chapter subdocuments where the preferred way to tackle long, complext texts. In any case, I am aware that I will need a lot of planning, careful styling and no direct formatting to make it work, either as a single file or using a master document. As for publishing... I was thinking plain PDF export with no DRM. Epub is an interesting option. On the print side... small printing houses down here, the ones that accept material for self publishing, demand MS Word .doc format, so that was another reason for me to chose Writer instead of a full DTP or plain text format. Anyway, thanks for the tips. I'll keep digging ;-) -- Pablo M. Dotro wiz...@elysium.com.arpdo...@df.uba.ar pdo...@gmail.com Twitter: @Pablo_El_Mago http://www.blog.elysium.com.ar -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi! On 08/07/13 21:29, Virgil Arrington wrote: Anytime I use a program like yWriter, I end up spending a lot of time later applying formatting that I could have applied on the fly with a decent word processor. That may not be a concern for a person whose work will be published, and therefore formatted, by someone else, like a professional publishing house. But, the original poster mentioned self-publishing an e-book. Virgil It seems the ideal software does not yet exist hehe. Maybe some day, when LO gets a more widespread user base, we will see an extension or extension set that could "bridge the gap" between full fledged word processing/design and the kind of writing aids that are needed to help us tell a good story, or create a consistent document without copious paper notes or auxiliary databases ;-). -- Pablo M. Dotro wiz...@elysium.com.arpdo...@df.uba.ar pdo...@gmail.com Twitter: @Pablo_El_Mago http://www.blog.elysium.com.ar -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) The Docs Team use Writer for all their guides. They do also have brief notes / summaries outside of whichever guide they are writing and do use their mailing list to help get consensus about side-issues. Getting involved there might help you learn tricks or at least see the process. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Mirosław Zalewski >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Monday, 8 July 2013, 22:51 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: > >> but to >> me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square >> peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not >> be worth it. > >I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a >book. > >As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks. >They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character >descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this >is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with >nice >note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs >you do not have to. > >As for publishing (making it look beautiful), LaTeX classes and forced >separation of structure and look usually provides better defaults than Writer. >Agreed. > >But then, we talk about defaults. It's not like you can't change them. >If you learn your tools and think in advance, create decent-looking long >document in Writer can be done with little hassle. > >I have created and edited some long (100+ pages) documents in Writer and never >seen anything in LaTeX that would be a dealbreaker for me. If anywhere, I >would go to full-fledged DTP suite such as Adobe InDesign. >-- >Best regards >Mirosław Zalewski > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) When i first started using Writer i found i struggled against the software quite a bit. Often people try something new unaware of the baggage they bring with them (such as bad habits learned through years of using other products) and somehow keep managing to find unsuitable work-flows that do make it more difficult than it needs to be. It's like watching someone that is scared of the water splashing about and fighting (and failing) to stay on top. If you are now a good swimmer can you remember the first time you laid back and relaxed and found that human beings are naturally bouyant? That only small minimal strokes of your arms almost parallel to the surface are far more effective at keeping you above water than up&down strokes. For me it took a huge wrench in my mind. Other people seemed to find it easy. I have taught Word as part of ECDL and other courses and people generally think i am extremely proficient with it, at least until MSO 2007, but i often found that other people's documents were a nightmare to beat into shape. Even a tiny change often threw up some unexpected formatting tangle that they had somehow managed to root deep into their document. Also old documents written with previous versions often came out all wrong. With LibreOffice it is much easier to get a good looking result that behaves itself. However if you do fight against it all the time then maybe you do need to either 1. Read up on documentation and adjust to the software and/or 2. Experiment and play with documents created by other people to see how they did it and/or 3. Experiment and play around with different ways of doing things. See if you have any baggage or bad habits that you can break-down to simplify your work-flow Otherwise, if you are always struggling against the flow then you really are better off with something that does suite you. First time i used LO to do a ToC it was a major pain. 2nd time (and from then on) i found it amazingly easy. That first time i did mess around with all sorts of aspects of it to work out how to beat it into submission. Eventually i worked out how to use it rather than to fight against it. Now it's incredibly easy. Even after a radical change i just right-click and choose "update" and it fixes itself. "Simples" ;) Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: Mirosław Zalewski ; users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 1:29 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >Miroslaw, > >You're right; I did merge *writing* and *publishing*. To that end, let me >muddy the waters even more by mentioning yWriter, a software program designed >specifically and solely for writing novels with many of the tools you suggest. >The frustration that I've found is that there are some publishing (or >formatting) tasks that are best handled completely separate from writing, such >as page layout, font selection, table of contents generation, etc. However, I >find other formatting tasks are better handled on the fly while typing, such >as applying italics to a word. Sometimes, I find seeing the paragraph layout >onscreen helpful to organizing my thoughts, which of course you won't see with >a strict text editor or pure LaTeX editor. At least LyX helps by showing some >formatting onscreen. > >Anytime I use a program like yWriter, I end up spending a lot of time later >applying formatting that I could have applied on the fly with a decent word >processor. That may not be a concern for a person whose work will be >published, and therefore formatted, by someone else, like a professional >publishing house. But, the original poster mentioned self-publishing an e-book. > >Virgil > >-Original Message----- From: Mirosław Zalewski >Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 5:51 PM >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: > >> but to >> me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square >> peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not >> be worth it. > >I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a >book. > >As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks. >They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character >descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this >is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with nice >note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs >you do not have to. > >As for publishing (making it look beaut
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) The Docs Team have looked into ePub versions and have found some good tools to use. Annoyingly i can't remember what they finally worked out was the best one so it would be really good if someone could ask them again. Anyway, perhaps there is something even better now. In my previous posts i have been a bit annoyed that people who don't spend time getting to know the tool they are using then blame the tool. In England there is a saying "A poor workman always blames his tools". Sometimes the square peg trying to fit the round hole is not the tool's fault. It's all in the way the workman is misusing the tool. However, i now see that Virgil has worked hard to get to grips with LO and has spent time experimenting and working with it and probably knows a lot more about doing larger works than me. Writer, Word and WordPerfect and others do seem to be designed for business letters and fairly short works. LaTeX (and the various front-ends (such as LyX) that attempt to make it easier to use) do seem to have advantages for larger works but are more difficult to wrestle with in the beginning when you are learning how to use them. Many people try and give up or find them a total nightmare. However, people DO manage to use Writer to do larger books. Piers Anthony, the famous sci-fi writer, mentions it in the preface to most of his books. Also our Documentation Team. Our Documentation Team have even published an ePub and since found an easier way of doing it. We should be learning from them and gain from their experience. On the other hand if you have been able to learn how to use LaTeX then you probably do have a significant advantage because it is the right tool for the right job. If LyX makes LaTeX easier then go for it. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Monday, 8 July 2013, 21:58 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > > >trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg >into a round hole. > > > >In my mind, Writer is a business application, useful for letters, memos, legal >documents, school reports, and the like. > > > >For organizing a book length document, with parts, chapters, and tables, >indexes, and sub-documents, etc, I much prefer LyX and LaTeX, both of which >are free and opensource. Yes, the LaTeX learning curve can be steep, but LyX >makes it so much easier. > > > >He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray >tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section >headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using >WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it >would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted >by WP. > >Instead, I ... ... loaded it into LyX. The entire >formatting process took about a half hour. I surprised even myself. > >I could have done the same thing with LO's styles and master documents, but >they're not quite as fully automatic as LyX/LaTeX, so it would have longer. > >So far, however, I've found LyX/LaTeX's support for e-books to be a little >lacking (but no more so than LO's). > > > >In short, while I love LO, I honestly think there are better tools for the >task of book and e-book writing. > >Virgil > > > >2013.07.08. 7:34 keltezéssel, Pablo Dotro írta: >> Greetings! > > > >> Does anyone know about a tutorial, book or website where I can >> specifically learn about creating a book-length document, with chapters >> (as subdocuments) and a master document, consistent styling, indexing and >> table of contents with LibreOffice? >> >> Thank you very much for your time, and best regards, >> > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Ferand wrote, Virgil, please stop this crap, LO and OO are the right tools to produce any document any form any size, only the lack of knowledge is a barrier . All professional tools to produce a book are XML based like LO and OO, so start writing, use a simple style model , understood the OutputLevels, understood picture resolutions and go. Afterwards choose a tool make a tranformation to deliver the work to a printer (PDF) or to a HTML 5/ Epub reader Greetz I noticed you didn't copy the list (a reply vs. reply all problem), but I'll include the list on my reply as I think it might be helpful. I'll grant that my suggesting other products on an LO users list may not be the best form, but I do think it proper to point out LO's limitations. I fully agree that LO can produce any document any size. I fully agree that lack of knowledge can be a barrier (to *any* product, be it LO or LaTeX). But, I think your last line helps prove my point. You suggest writing in LO, and then picking *another* tool to transform the final product into PDF or Epub reader format. In so suggesting, you imply that LO is *not* the right tool to perform those tasks. I was trying to suggest tools that could perform the entire project, from writing to publishing. The PDF output from LyX/LaTeX cannot be touched by *anything* that I know of (at least in the FOSS world). For example, LaTeX automatically, and by default, produces ligatures, those "fi" and "fl" combinations that are often found lacking today in "professionally" published books produced by word processors like LO or Word. The Microtype package is an absolute must for any proper output with justified margins, as it justifies an entire paragraph, not just lines, making small adjustments, not only between words, but *within* letters as well. LO's line by line justification looks hideous in comparison (yes, I'm a little OCD about these things). And, unless you use Linux Libertine as your typeface, you won't be able to get such professional effects as old style numbering or true small caps. There was a day when proper justification, ligatures, and professional type effects were the expected norm in professionally designed books. But, today, so many publishing houses are simply accepting the output of word processors that it's becoming rare to find a properly designed book. The lack of professional output in computer generated books was the reason for the creation of TeX in the first place, some 35 years ago. As far as the ebook format is concerned, nothing I've seen (again in cost-effective tools) can match the output of Atlantis. Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Tom, Actually, I have had very little struggle learning LO. I started back in the StarOffice days and haven’t looked back. I have just learned to keep LO in its place...as a business tool, not a tool for creative writing or desktop publishing. You mention the Table of Contents. Yes, the first time I tried, I was mystified, but with practice, it’s become no big deal. But, like with most things in office suite software, you have to do a lot of adjusting, customizing, etc. to get what you want. With LaTeX, you simply type \tableofcontents in the place in your document where you want it to appear and, voila, you get it, fully formatted with the Table of Contents title properly typeset and in the right place. It’s even easier with the LyX front end. Two mouse clicks and it’s done. Yes, LO is an extremely powerful tool and, yes, with education, you can produce book length documents with master documents, subdocuments, tables of contents, etc. But, as I mentioned in my response to Fernand, you will not be able to match the professional output of LaTeX, with its full-featured typeset effects, proper paragraph justification, etc. But, as Pablo and I agree, LaTeX works best if you can accept its default formatting decisions. If you want to change them, you’ll have a bit of an education ahead of you. (And Pablo, you don’t have to create an entire document class to change the default settings; often just a few commands in the preamble are enough) So, either way, depending on the output you want, you have an education ahead of you. Either learn LO’s master document/table of contents system, or learn how to make some changes to LaTeX’s default settings. Virgil From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 5:27 AM To: Virgil Arrington ; Mirosław Zalewski ; users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) When i first started using Writer i found i struggled against the software quite a bit. Often people try something new unaware of the baggage they bring with them (such as bad habits learned through years of using other products) and somehow keep managing to find unsuitable work-flows that do make it more difficult than it needs to be. It's like watching someone that is scared of the water splashing about and fighting (and failing) to stay on top. If you are now a good swimmer can you remember the first time you laid back and relaxed and found that human beings are naturally bouyant? That only small minimal strokes of your arms almost parallel to the surface are far more effective at keeping you above water than up&down strokes. For me it took a huge wrench in my mind. Other people seemed to find it easy. I have taught Word as part of ECDL and other courses and people generally think i am extremely proficient with it, at least until MSO 2007, but i often found that other people's documents were a nightmare to beat into shape. Even a tiny change often threw up some unexpected formatting tangle that they had somehow managed to root deep into their document. Also old documents written with previous versions often came out all wrong. With LibreOffice it is much easier to get a good looking result that behaves itself. However if you do fight against it all the time then maybe you do need to either 1. Read up on documentation and adjust to the software and/or 2. Experiment and play with documents created by other people to see how they did it and/or 3. Experiment and play around with different ways of doing things. See if you have any baggage or bad habits that you can break-down to simplify your work-flow Otherwise, if you are always struggling against the flow then you really are better off with something that does suite you. First time i used LO to do a ToC it was a major pain. 2nd time (and from then on) i found it amazingly easy. That first time i did mess around with all sorts of aspects of it to work out how to beat it into submission. Eventually i worked out how to use it rather than to fight against it. Now it's incredibly easy. Even after a radical change i just right-click and choose "update" and it fixes itself. "Simples" ;) Regards from Tom :) -- From: Virgil Arrington To: Mirosław Zalewski ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 1:29 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Miroslaw, You're right; I did merge *writing* and *publishing*. To that end, let me muddy the waters even more by mentioning yWriter, a software program designed specifically and solely for writing novels with many of the tools you suggest. The frustration that I've found is that there are some publishing (or formatting) tasks that are best handled completely separate from writing, such as page layout, font selection, ta
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Sorry, my original reply went off list. On 07/09/2013 12:10 AM, Pablo Dotro wrote: I thank you for your time and effort. I would prefer to stick to using LO... I seriously considered turning to LaTeX, but I truly feel a little overwhelmed with the amount of learning I would need to do in order to reach the same formatting proficiency I have with a standard word processor. Best regards, I've written fourteen books and used LO for every one. Now I write fiction, so I my books don't tend to use complicated layouts. The important thing to understand is that you will need to use a tool like Calibre to covert the LO-generated HTML file to .mobi and .epub. With Calibre you can generate a TOC and the like. Hope that helps. Jack -- *Jack Wallen*|The Zombie King Get on the Dark Hayride at Get Jack'd Author of the I Zombie, Fringe Killers, The Nameless, and Shero series of books -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Getting back to Pablo's original question, he asked about using master documents with sub-documents for each chapter. This is, in fact, the model used by many systems, from LaTeX to yWriter, as well as LO. But, I'm wondering how necessary it really is. The purpose of the master document/subdocument system is to keep track of your document, where you may be at a given place and time. But, LO's navigator tool offers much of the same functionality without having to split your document up into many different files. With the navigator, you can jump from point to point within a single document based on headings, bookmarks, etc. Depending on the size of the book, and your need to work on several different sections of it at the same time, just using the navigator as opposed to master documents could save yourself a lot of education time and headaches. For me, the biggest headache with master documents comes when I'm proofreading the master and find I want to make a small change. I hit a keystroke and am immediately reminded that all editing must take place within the subdocuments. Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Jack, Just curious. Do you use LO's master document system for your books? Virgil -Original Message- From: Jack Wallen Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 7:12 AM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Sorry, my original reply went off list. On 07/09/2013 12:10 AM, Pablo Dotro wrote: I thank you for your time and effort. I would prefer to stick to using LO... I seriously considered turning to LaTeX, but I truly feel a little overwhelmed with the amount of learning I would need to do in order to reach the same formatting proficiency I have with a standard word processor. Best regards, I've written fourteen books and used LO for every one. Now I write fiction, so I my books don't tend to use complicated layouts. The important thing to understand is that you will need to use a tool like Calibre to covert the LO-generated HTML file to .mobi and .epub. With Calibre you can generate a TOC and the like. Hope that helps. Jack -- *Jack Wallen*|The Zombie King Get on the Dark Hayride at Get Jack'd Author of the I Zombie, Fringe Killers, The Nameless, and Shero series of books -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Here is a resend of a reply that seemed not to get to the system, so I have been told. On 07/08/2013 06:32 PM, Kracked_P_P---webmaster wrote: On 07/08/2013 05:51 PM, Mirosław Zalewski wrote: On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: but to me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not be worth it. I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a book. As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much comparable - they both sucks. They do not provide basic tools needed for writers, such as character descriptions (were her eyes blue or green?) or detailed outline of story (this is different than outline of chapters). Of course you can overcome it with nice note-taking app, custom wiki or organized papers, but in some other programs you do not have to. As for publishing (making it look beautiful), LaTeX classes and forced separation of structure and look usually provides better defaults than Writer. Agreed. But then, we talk about defaults. It's not like you can't change them. If you learn your tools and think in advance, create decent-looking long document in Writer can be done with little hassle. I have created and edited some long (100+ pages) documents in Writer and never seen anything in LaTeX that would be a dealbreaker for me. If anywhere, I would go to full-fledged DTP suite such as Adobe InDesign. I know of at least one very successful author that uses LO on an Linux PC to write all of his books. Piers Anthony. He is getting into the late 70's but he went from StarOffice to OpenOffice.org, to finally LibreOffice. When he move to OOo, he was writing 3 to 5 books a year. With age and his wife's health issues, he does not have as much time to write. So I see maybe 2 or more books [paperback novels] a year now, plus the odd novella as well. For all of the work he does, he makes good use of macros. That was one of the big issues with his previous packages till he got to OOo. SO for writing books with LO, it can be done and be profitable for a author. As for publishing books, well it all depends on what you want in the book. If you have to do a lot of graphics and images withing the pages, with complex text flow formatting like in some text books, then maybe LO might not be the best idea for the final layout work of such a book. A FULL desktop publishing package with all of the bells-and-whistles would do the job easier. But for writing books for reading entertainment, and not for educational text books, LO would work well for most needs. Of course, if you need to look into self-publishing, then Piers Anthony's official web site has a lot of references in that department. [ hipiers.com ] He wanted to have some good reference material for writers to have an easier time than he did when starting out. . -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 07/09/2013 07:27 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Ferand wrote, Virgil, please stop this crap, LO and OO are the right tools to produce any document any form any size, only the lack of knowledge is a barrier . All professional tools to produce a book are XML based like LO and OO, so start writing, use a simple style model , understood the OutputLevels, understood picture resolutions and go. Afterwards choose a tool make a tranformation to deliver the work to a printer (PDF) or to a HTML 5/ Epub reader Greetz I noticed you didn't copy the list (a reply vs. reply all problem), but I'll include the list on my reply as I think it might be helpful. I'll grant that my suggesting other products on an LO users list may not be the best form, but I do think it proper to point out LO's limitations. I fully agree that LO can produce any document any size. I fully agree that lack of knowledge can be a barrier (to *any* product, be it LO or LaTeX). But, I think your last line helps prove my point. You suggest writing in LO, and then picking *another* tool to transform the final product into PDF or Epub reader format. In so suggesting, you imply that LO is *not* the right tool to perform those tasks. I was trying to suggest tools that could perform the entire project, from writing to publishing. The PDF output from LyX/LaTeX cannot be touched by *anything* that I know of (at least in the FOSS world). For example, LaTeX automatically, and by default, produces ligatures, those "fi" and "fl" combinations that are often found lacking today in "professionally" published books produced by word processors like LO or Word. The Microtype package is an absolute must for any proper output with justified margins, as it justifies an entire paragraph, not just lines, making small adjustments, not only between words, but *within* letters as well. LO's line by line justification looks hideous in comparison (yes, I'm a little OCD about these things). And, unless you use Linux Libertine as your typeface, you won't be able to get such professional effects as old style numbering or true small caps. There was a day when proper justification, ligatures, and professional type effects were the expected norm in professionally designed books. But, today, so many publishing houses are simply accepting the output of word processors that it's becoming rare to find a properly designed book. The lack of professional output in computer generated books was the reason for the creation of TeX in the first place, some 35 years ago. As far as the ebook format is concerned, nothing I've seen (again in cost-effective tools) can match the output of Atlantis. Virgil I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my tablets. All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one that works best for tablet reading. I choose something along the page size used for paper-back books. So I format the page to about 4 by 7 inches, with a small margin size. Then I export it to a PDF file. Of course, if I want to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use an external package called "Calibre". I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember correctly] I also can save the book file via printing to CUPS-PDF and making sure that my exact fonts are embedded properly. LO 4.1.x release notes shows the "embed font" as a checkbox option. There use to be an extension to export to ePub, but I do not know if it is a good one or not. SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets. For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those glyph/letter combinations available. But I never saw the need to use them. I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or printed one. There are fonts specifically created for their readability for books. Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical books you buy. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Couldn't agree more. I've found the best way to start is write short document consisting of all the parts you need. Learn the appropriate Writer terms and functions. Get everything to format properly down to the last little item. Save your template and your good to go. By the time your done with it, you'll understand your own created format, that it becomes second nature. Then write your book. The longest document I've done was 64 pages from and old Lotus Wordpro that I had to totally redo in Writer. I am pretty happy with the results. Hope this helps. On 7/9/2013 5:27 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) When i first started using Writer i found i struggled against the software quite a bit. Often people try something new unaware of the baggage they bring with them (such as bad habits learned through years of using other products) and somehow keep managing to find unsuitable work-flows that do make it more difficult than it needs to be. It's like watching someone that is scared of the water splashing about and fighting (and failing) to stay on top. If you are now a good swimmer can you remember the first time you laid back and relaxed and found that human beings are naturally bouyant? That only small minimal strokes of your arms almost parallel to the surface are far more effective at keeping you above water than up&down strokes. For me it took a huge wrench in my mind. Other people seemed to find it easy. I have taught Word as part of ECDL and other courses and people generally think i am extremely proficient with it, at least until MSO 2007, but i often found that other people's documents were a nightmare to beat into shape. Even a tiny change often threw up some unexpected formatting tangle that they had somehow managed to root deep into their document. Also old documents written with previous versions often came out all wrong. With LibreOffice it is much easier to get a good looking result that behaves itself. However if you do fight against it all the time then maybe you do need to either 1. Read up on documentation and adjust to the software and/or 2. Experiment and play with documents created by other people to see how they did it and/or 3. Experiment and play around with different ways of doing things. See if you have any baggage or bad habits that you can break-down to simplify your work-flow Otherwise, if you are always struggling against the flow then you really are better off with something that does suite you. First time i used LO to do a ToC it was a major pain. 2nd time (and from then on) i found it amazingly easy. That first time i did mess around with all sorts of aspects of it to work out how to beat it into submission. Eventually i worked out how to use it rather than to fight against it. Now it's incredibly easy. Even after a radical change i just right-click and choose "update" and it fixes itself. "Simples" ;) Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Mirosław Zalewski ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 1:29 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Miroslaw, You're right; I did merge *writing* and *publishing*. To that end, let me muddy the waters even more by mentioning yWriter, a software program designed specifically and solely for writing novels with many of the tools you suggest. The frustration that I've found is that there are some publishing (or formatting) tasks that are best handled completely separate from writing, such as page layout, font selection, table of contents generation, etc. However, I find other formatting tasks are better handled on the fly while typing, such as applying italics to a word. Sometimes, I find seeing the paragraph layout onscreen helpful to organizing my thoughts, which of course you won't see with a strict text editor or pure LaTeX editor. At least LyX helps by showing some formatting onscreen. Anytime I use a program like yWriter, I end up spending a lot of time later applying formatting that I could have applied on the fly with a decent word processor. That may not be a concern for a person whose work will be published, and therefore formatted, by someone else, like a professional publishing house. But, the original poster mentioned self-publishing an e-book. Virgil -Original Message- From: Mirosław Zalewski Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 5:51 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 08/07/2013 at 22:58, "Virgil Arrington" wrote: but to me trying to write a book with LO Writer is like trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Yes, it can be done, but the labor involved may not be worth it. I think you merge two totally different ideas: writing a book and publishing a book. As for writing, Writer and LaTeX are pretty much compa
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 7/9/13 2:12 AM, Tom Davies wrote: > > Writer, Word and WordPerfect and others do seem to be designed for business > letters and fairly short works. LaTeX (and the various front-ends (such as > LyX) that attempt to make it easier to use) do seem to have advantages for > larger works but are more difficult to wrestle with in the beginning when you > are learning how to use them. Many people try and give up or find them a > total nightmare. However, people DO manage to use Writer to do larger books. > Piers Anthony, the famous sci-fi writer, mentions it in the preface to most > of his books. Also our Documentation Team. Our Documentation Team have even > published an ePub and since found an easier way of doing it. We should be > learning from them and gain from their experience. > > I have heard rave reviews about Scrivener, but was not impressed when I looked at it, but then I don't usually write books.. It looked very robust and comprehensive, but a bit complex as far as setting up your templates, but I suppose the same can be said of writer. There is also a latex lab for google docs which I have played with if you want to be that granular -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Kracked_P_P wrote: I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my tablets. All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one that works best for tablet reading. I choose something along the page size used for paper-back books. So I format the page to about 4 by 7 inches, with a small margin size. Then I export it to a PDF file. Of course, if I want to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use an external package called "Calibre". I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember correctly] I've done the same thing by formatting the page size of a PDF file to fit my Kindle screen. Of course, with PDF, you lose a lot of the functionality of the Kindle (or Nook), such as scalable fonts and the continuous flow of text without page breaks, etc. For that, you need the e-book formats (Mobi for Kindle, Epub for Nook). This is where my OCD kicks in for I've found that most programs, such as LO, and even LyX and Markdown, lose some formatting in the translation to HTML, which is the basis of Epub. Of all the programs I've tried, Atlantis does the best job of retaining my formatting and it exports directly to Epub and Mobi formats. I've used Calibre and find it really good, but again, my results have been spotty. So far, I haven't been able to get a good conversion of a PDF to Mobi with Calibre (maybe it's user error on my part). There's a lot to Calibre and I haven't fully explored it yet. SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets. I do the same with Atlantis and export directly to Epub and Mobi formats. For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those glyph/letter combinations available. But I never saw the need to use them. I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or printed one. There are fonts specifically created for their readability for books. Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical books you buy. If you're saving to an e-book format, ligatures aren't necessary, nor is margin justification or true typographic features. But, if you're going to print that puppy, you want it to have all the typographic excellence you can get and, right now at least, that excellence is lacking with typical word processors. For print excellence, you can't beat LaTeX. Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 07/09/2013 12:05 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: > But, LO's navigator tool offers much of the same functionality without having > to split your document up into > many different files. With the navigator, you can jump from point to > point within a single document based on headings, bookmarks, etc. With documents of under 500 pages, less than 100 images, and less than 100 tables, MasterDocuments may not be worthwhile. With documents of 5,000+ pages, several thousand images, several thousand tables, and assorted other objects, system performance takes a nose-dive, when MasterDocuments are not used. Note: The biggest issue/bug with 5,000+ page documents, is that LibO has (¿had?) a limit of 2^64 style changes per document. jonathon -- LibreOffice in a Multi-Lingual Environment. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 07/09/2013 03:48 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Kracked_P_P wrote: I use LO to export my work to a PDF document that would work well on my tablets. All I needed to do is format the page size to the proper one that works best for tablet reading. I choose something along the page size used for paper-back books. So I format the page to about 4 by 7 inches, with a small margin size. Then I export it to a PDF file. Of course, if I want to create an ePub document format instead, for Kindle or Nook, then I use an external package called "Calibre". I run it on a Ubuntu/Linux system, but it come in Windows as well. [if I remember correctly] I've done the same thing by formatting the page size of a PDF file to fit my Kindle screen. Of course, with PDF, you lose a lot of the functionality of the Kindle (or Nook), such as scalable fonts and the continuous flow of text without page breaks, etc. For that, you need the e-book formats (Mobi for Kindle, Epub for Nook). This is where my OCD kicks in for I've found that most programs, such as LO, and even LyX and Markdown, lose some formatting in the translation to HTML, which is the basis of Epub. Of all the programs I've tried, Atlantis does the best job of retaining my formatting and it exports directly to Epub and Mobi formats. I've used Calibre and find it really good, but again, my results have been spotty. So far, I haven't been able to get a good conversion of a PDF to Mobi with Calibre (maybe it's user error on my part). There's a lot to Calibre and I haven't fully explored it yet. SO, for my needs, I take free books that are in .txt or other formats and use LO and its page formatting to convert them into a document or book that works well for either my 7 inch or 9 inch tablets. I do the same with Atlantis and export directly to Epub and Mobi formats. For Ligatures, well there are fonts that can be used that have those glyph/letter combinations available. But I never saw the need to use them. I just choose a font that works well for reading as an eBook or printed one. There are fonts specifically created for their readability for books. Most text books tend to use such fonts, as well as physical books you buy. If you're saving to an e-book format, ligatures aren't necessary, nor is margin justification or true typographic features. But, if you're going to print that puppy, you want it to have all the typographic excellence you can get and, right now at least, that excellence is lacking with typical word processors. For print excellence, you can't beat LaTeX. Virgil Yes, if you fix the page and font size to what works for you, then it may not be right for others. Well, I still can take the TXT file and convert it to a ePub file. But, the Calibre package [Ubuntu 12.04] and gives me both Nook and Kindle page formatting under the ePub exporting, for whatever reasons. I have the ability to use both Kindle and Nook apps on both of my tablets, even though one is a Nook. I have seen a Kindle app so you can read your Kindle books from your Amazon "library" on you Nook tablet. I have not tried that, but my old tablet had the Kindle app on it and I was reading some books bought/downloaded from Amazon. Mostly free ones though. Will see later if I can read them on my Nook.. For printed books, I still will go with the "easy to read book fonts" and some seem to not need the ligatures. The only thing might be needed is some spacing options between words and letters for fully-justified text. Jean Hollis Weber, our main documentation editor, can tell you how much a pain that can be to get the lines and paragraphs to look "right" with fully right and left justified text within a document. Hyphenation helps but not completely in that department. Actually, I was looking at a new book and I was shocked that the printed paper-back book cost almost $5 LESS than the Nook and Kindle file version[s]. You would expect the printed book to cost more, and but not the e-book file to cost more. Well, since some people claim printed books are "dead", and no one would want to buy a printed copy, someone decided to make the e-book versions more expensive, so the publisher could make a really big profit. I doubt the author is getting more money out of such a sale. He would get the same income per book, no matter what the format; hard-cover, paper-back, or e-book. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Urmas wrote: The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign. You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher. Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Urmas wrote: The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign. You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher. Virgil The poster might want to look at this page. http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html In the list, there is information about some publishers and services, with some references to e-book self publishing. IT might be worth a look. If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there may be some good information there to guide through the process. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid. Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the "hipiers" link suggested below. Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, "Writers Tune-up Manual." Virgil -Original Message- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Urmas wrote: The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign. You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher. Virgil The poster might want to look at this page. http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html In the list, there is information about some publishers and services, with some references to e-book self publishing. IT might be worth a look. If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there may be some good information there to guide through the process. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) I think ani-privacy is an array of automated processes that is waaay out of anyone's control now. Just click on the "Spam" button and let your filters learn what to block and what to accept. People love to share intimate details of their life with everyone across the planet (Facebook, Twitter, and other social networking is enormously popular). We have actively encouraged companies to collect information on all of us. Just avoid thinking of it as spooky and let them drown under the weight of the data. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: Kracked_P_P---webmaster ; >users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 11:56 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid. > >Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the "hipiers" >link suggested below. > >Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, "Writers >Tune-up Manual." > >Virgil > >-Original Message- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster >Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: >> Urmas wrote: >> >>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be >>> decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign. >> >> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final >> output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self >> published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that >> *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher. >> >> Virgil >> > >The poster might want to look at this page. > >http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html > >In the list, there is information about some publishers and services, >with some references to e-book self publishing. IT might be worth a look. > >If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there >may be some good information there to guide through the process. > >-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > >-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
hipiers.com does not send out spam emails, or it should not since the owner of the domain is against spam as much as we are. I do not know anything about Scrivener or its web site. Did you do a Google or Amazon search for "writer info", a book search, or some other one that might make you think you are a writer of some type of book or manual? If you did, you may have triggered a advertisement from Amazon. When I look at my weather site, it displays advertisement based on my searches on Amazon, Google, and even Tigerdirect.com [computer and electronics web store]. Of course, you could always use the "Private Window" option in Mozilla Firefox to reduce your web footprint and not give, the web sites you visit, your info that is stored in your bowser, such as email address and other things you do not want given out. Every browser I know of has personal information stored in it. The trick is to make your browser not have this info available to the sites you visit. Firefox has the "private window" option. [File > New Private Window]. On 07/11/2013 06:56 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid. Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the "hipiers" link suggested below. Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, "Writers Tune-up Manual." Virgil -Original Message- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Urmas wrote: The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most likely InDesign. You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for final output. But, Pablo's original question stated he would be creating a "self published, free ebook." Pablo is apparently looking for a solution that *avoids* the need to present his book to a professional publisher. Virgil The poster might want to look at this page. http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html In the list, there is information about some publishers and services, with some references to e-book self publishing. IT might be worth a look. If the poster wants to make money on a self-published e-book, then there may be some good information there to guide through the process. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) Errr, just my own personal opinion of course and on "a bad hair day" Try watching "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", particularly the scene with the peasants working in the field and claiming to be "an autonomous collective" and then admitting their lord was out to lunch. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Tom Davies >To: Kracked_P_P---webmaster ; >"users@global.libreoffice.org" >Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 13:40 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > >Hi :) >I think that "Private Window" is based on a "standards" agreement that went >through the US Senate and was heavily lobbied against by hefty US companies >that were grumbling that they needed to invade everyone's privacy in order to >be able to sell their products and make America great (they meant the US, but >obviously they ignore the southern half of the continent and the 50% of the >remaining land mass that is Canada). > >The result is that websites are sent an extra bit of information about you and >that bit is your intention to be anonymous and that information, along with >all the rest, can be logged by whichever site you visit. Some governments (ie >not just in the US) agencies see the desire to be anonymous (ie a "loner") as >suspicious so once they have figured out how to do it then they might put you >higher up any lists they might keep (if they can handle the volume of data) and, of course, companies can just ignore the request for privacy or even see it as a challenge. > >Individuals 'rights' versus corporate profits. Which tends to win these days? > > >Outside of the USA such things are normal and common-place and have been going >on for centuries. Occasionally one country or other produces a piece of paper >that claims individuals have rights but those usually turn out to be "business >as usual" fairly quickly or even plummet into an even worse situation for some >time. >Regards from >Tom :) > > > > > > >> >> From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster >>To: users@global.libreoffice.org >>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 12:58 >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >> >> >>hipiers.com does not send out spam emails, or it should not since the >>owner of the domain is against spam as much as we are. >> >>I do not know anything about Scrivener or its web site. >> >>Did you do a Google or Amazon search for "writer info", a book search, >>or some other one that might make you think you are a writer of some >>type of book or manual? If you did, you may have triggered a >>advertisement from Amazon. >> >>When I look at my weather site, it displays advertisement based on my >>searches on Amazon, Google, and even Tigerdirect.com [computer and >>electronics web store]. >> >>Of course, you could always use the "Private Window" option in Mozilla >>Firefox to reduce your web footprint and not give, the web sites you >>visit, your info that is stored in your bowser, such as email address >>and other things you do not want given out. Every browser I know of has >>personal information stored in it. The trick is to make your browser >>not have this info available to the sites you visit. Firefox has the >>"private window" option. [File > New Private Window]. >> >> >> >> >>On 07/11/2013 06:56 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: >>> Okay, this is really spooky, or I'm just growing paranoid. >>> >>> Two days ago, I downloaded Scrivener. Yesterday, I clicked on the >>> "hipiers" link suggested below. >>> >>> Today, I receive an email from Amazon suggesting I buy the book, >>> "Writers Tune-up Manual." >>> >>> Virgil >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 AM >>> To: users@global.libreoffice.org >>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >>> >>> On 07/10/2013 08:37 AM, Virgil Arrington wrote: >>>> Urmas wrote: >>>> >>>>> The tool that you use does not matter. Everything thay you write >>>>> will be decomposed and virtually remade in the DTP program, most >>>>> likely InDesign. >>>> >>>> You may be right if the project goes to a professional publisher for >>>> final output. But, Pablo'
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself > to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel > Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. > > As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the > original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray > tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter > and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page > novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long > for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of > the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Wolfgang, I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP, everything was very typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a linear fashion until they were changed by a later command. Hence the reason was so essential with WP. Virgil -Original Message- From: Wolfgang Keller Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
"As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote: For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 07/11/2013 10:00 PM, rost52 wrote: "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote: I'll reiterate this again -- if you're self publishing (and you intend on doing so with Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, KOBO, etc... you will have to convert whatever file you create into .mobi or .epub format. The best tool for that task is Calibre. And the best way to do that is to save a doc as an .html file (in LO), import it into Calibre, and then covert it. That's what I've done for every novel I've published. -- *Jack Wallen*|The Zombie King Get on the Dark Hayride at Get Jack'd Author of the I Zombie, Fringe Killers, The Nameless, and Shero series of books -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Virgil , the secret of styles for ebook publishing is the "OutLineLevel" you can uses any style but change your paragraph styles to the correct OutlineLevel TITEL = OutlineLevel 1 Subtitel = OutlineLevel 2 Subsubtitel = OutlineLevel 3 etc...to 9 Wolfgang, I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP, everything was very typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a linear fashion until they were changed by a later command. Hence the reason was so essential with WP. Virgil -Original Message- From: Wolfgang Keller Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. But, as I've said before, LyX/LaTeX have their own sets of problems. Perhaps the best solution is the one a person will actually use to get the job done. One Scrivener reviewer commented that evaluating writing software is more fun than writing. I have found that true as I often spend more time trying to find the perfect writing tool than I do actually writing. Many years ago, a person was talking to Mike Royko, a Chicago journalist about writing a book. He asked Mike what the best software was for doing the task. Mike replied something to the effect of, "Software? Look, son, get yourself a legal pad and a pen and just start writing." Virgil -Original Message- From: rost52 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote: For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) +1 Well said! :) The tools sometimes get in the way of doing the job. Yes, keep learning new tricks and better ways when idling along but just use whatever you are comfortable with when you need to get a job done. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Friday, 12 July 2013, 12:30 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a >process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. But, as I've said before, >LyX/LaTeX have their own sets of problems. > >Perhaps the best solution is the one a person will actually use to get the >job done. One Scrivener reviewer commented that evaluating writing software >is more fun than writing. I have found that true as I often spend more time >trying to find the perfect writing tool than I do actually writing. > >Many years ago, a person was talking to Mike Royko, a Chicago journalist >about writing a book. He asked Mike what the best software was for doing the >task. Mike replied something to the effect of, "Software? Look, son, get >yourself a legal pad and a pen and just start writing." > >Virgil > >-Original Message- >From: rost52 >Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >"As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set >styles to Default. Then >create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. > >On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote: >>> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself >>> to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel >>> Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. >>> >>> As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the >>> original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray >>> tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter >>> and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page >>> novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long >>> for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of >>> the formatting codes inserted by WP. >> I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect >> *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the >> dozens of different document processing applications I have used over >> the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring >> strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it >> fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). >> >> Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer >> in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you >> want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even >> use it for letters. >> Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" >> style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and >> page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have >> their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Wolfgang >> > > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted > > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) Thanks for the tips! it's good to hear from someone that is getting published and able to show it Thanks and regards from Tom :) > > From: Jack Wallen >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Friday, 12 July 2013, 3:18 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > >On 07/11/2013 10:00 PM, rost52 wrote: >> "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all >> and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and >> reformat the whole document. >> >> On 12.07.2013 01:17, Wolfgang Keller wrote: >>> >> >> >I'll reiterate this again -- if you're self publishing (and you intend >on doing so with Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, KOBO, etc... you will have to >convert whatever file you create into .mobi or .epub format. The best >tool for that task is Calibre. And the best way to do that is to save a >doc as an .html file (in LO), import it into Calibre, and then covert >it. That's what I've done for every novel I've published. > >-- >*Jack Wallen*|The Zombie King >Get on the Dark Hayride at Get Jack'd >Author of the I Zombie, Fringe Killers, The Nameless, and Shero series >of books > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I fully agree. I use outline level styles all the time, and they make a world of difference, especially when used in headings. They make jumping from one heading to the next actually work on my Kindle. Virgil --- From: Fernand Vanrie Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 3:22 AM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Virgil , the secret of styles for ebook publishing is the "OutLineLevel" you can uses any style but change your paragraph styles to the correct OutlineLevel TITEL = OutlineLevel 1 Subtitel = OutlineLevel 2 Subsubtitel = OutlineLevel 3 etc...to 9 Wolfgang, I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP, everything was very typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a linear fashion until they were changed by a later command. Hence the reason codes> was so essential with WP. Virgil -Original Message- From: Wolfgang Keller Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of the formatting codes inserted by WP. I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the dozens of different document processing applications I have used over the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even use it for letters. Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
> I fully agree. I use outline level styles all the time, and they make a > world of difference, especially when used in headings. They make jumping > from one heading to the next actually work on my Kindle. > > Virgil > Along those same lines -- when you convert in Calibre -- the ONLY thing that matters (as far as chapters are concerned) is the style you use for said chapter headings. I always use H3 and then make sure to catch this in the Structure Detection section of the conversion window. With this you can define some nice things (such as page breaks). > --- > From: Fernand Vanrie > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 3:22 AM > To: users@global.libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > Virgil , > > the secret of styles for ebook publishing is the "OutLineLevel" you can > uses any style but change your paragraph styles to the correct > OutlineLevel > > TITEL = OutlineLevel 1 > > Subtitel = OutlineLevel 2 > > Subsubtitel = OutlineLevel 3 etc...to 9 >> Wolfgang, >> >> I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm >> not >> sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could >> never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's >> and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. When I used WP, everything was >> very typewriter-like, with commands being inserted in a linear fashion >> until they were changed by a later command. Hence the reason > codes> was so essential with WP. >> >> Virgil >> >> -Original Message- From: Wolfgang Keller >> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM >> To: users@global.libreoffice.org >> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >>> For example, several years ago, my 14 year old son challenged himself >>> to type a 50,000 word novel in November, which is National Novel >>> Writers Month. He met his goal, and quickly dropped the project. >>> >>> As a proud papa, I wanted to put his document to paper. He wrote the >>> original in WordPerfect, and it was a formatting mess, with stray >>> tabs, carriage returns, and inconsistent formatting across chapter >>> and section headings. I began the task of reformatting his 127 page >>> novel using WordPerfect, the original program. It didn't take long >>> for me to realize it would take days and days to wade through all of >>> the formatting codes inserted by WP. >> >> I have to say that unlike MS Word and its clones OO and LO, Wordperfect >> *does* allow proper use of styles for "structure markup". Among the >> dozens of different document processing applications I have used over >> the past 25 years, Wordperfect was one of the best for authoring >> strongly structured documents, at par with Framemaker. Unfortunately it >> fell into the hands of an incompentent company (at Corel). >> >> Obivously, nothing (besides Indesign with a *competent* typographer >> in front of it) beats the typographic output of LyX/LaTeX, so if you >> want to produce a PDF ready for print, there's no other choice. I even >> use it for letters. >> >> Until they get redesigned to implement a proper "structure markup" >> style concept and correct typographic features (all line- and >> page-breaking algorithms from LaTeX are open-source), LO and OO have >> their value mostly for "generating" documents from databases. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Wolfgang >> > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- jack wallen, jr <--- lover of entropy Writer of the I Zombie, Fringe Killer, Shero, and Screampark series as well as the upcoming The Book of Jacob Series. Learn more @ www.monkeypantz.net -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
> I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and > I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years > and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I > took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. To put it simply: Wordperfect (or e.g. Framemaker) styles allow to do "structure markup". Word, OO and LO "styles" don't. In essence, this boils down to the fact that all sane document processing applications (whether Wordperfect, Framemaker or dozens of others, LaTeX or anything that outputs structured XML) use nestable open- and close-"tags", while Word and LO/OO don't. The style concept of Wordperfect was so well designed that the original developers (Wordperfect) even implemented an XML authoring application (for structured XML, using real schemas and stylesheets, not spaghetti garbage like the "Opendocument XML") that used the Wordperfect UI, including the style editor. This application is even shipped with every copy of Corel Office, it's just mentioned or documented nowhere. The style concept of both Word and LO/OO however is so severely screwed up that I've never ever seen a document that would have allowed to re-use content in any other way (within the same application!) than by copying and pasting it as unformatted text and then re-applying all the formatting by hand. Unfortunately these days, people only "learn" with MS garbage and thus they learn document processing exactly the wrong way. And of course, the "reveal codes" view of Wordperfect at least allowed to debug documents, while there is absolutely no way to do this with Word or LO/OO documents. And I wish the source view in LyX was editable. Sincerely, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi Wolfgang, Wolfgang Keller schrieb: I don't believe I've heard of "structure markup style concept" and I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I used WordPerfect for years and could never quite get the hang of WP's styles, all the while I took to Word's and OO's (now LO's) styles quite easily. To put it simply: Wordperfect (or e.g. Framemaker) styles allow to do "structure markup". Word, OO and LO "styles" don't. All three allow structure markup. In Word it is a little bit hidden in the UI, but in AOO and LO it is easily done. In essence, this boils down to the fact that all sane document processing applications (whether Wordperfect, Framemaker or dozens of others, LaTeX or anything that outputs structured XML) use nestable open- and close-"tags", while Word and LO/OO don't. That is wrong. AOO and LO use ODF which is XML. What do you want to do, which is not possible? The style concept of Wordperfect was so well designed that the original developers (Wordperfect) even implemented an XML authoring application (for structured XML, using real schemas and stylesheets, not spaghetti garbage like the "Opendocument XML") that used the Wordperfect UI, including the style editor. This application is even shipped with every copy of Corel Office, it's just mentioned or documented nowhere. You will need to explain "spaghetti garbage". You can read the schema for ODF in http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html for example. The style concept of both Word and LO/OO however is so severely screwed up that I've never ever seen a document that would have allowed to re-use content in any other way (within the same application!) than by copying and pasting it as unformatted text and then re-applying all the formatting by hand. So you would need to blame the people who wrote the documents. If you use LO correctly, then copy and paste works well. That does not mean, that all cases are free from errors. But those are bugs and no errors in the concept. Unfortunately these days, people only "learn" with MS garbage and thus they learn document processing exactly the wrong way. You underestimate the teachers. And of course, the "reveal codes" view of Wordperfect at least allowed to debug documents, while there is absolutely no way to do this with Word or LO/OO documents. Mmh, I had no problem to detect the errors in the documents my pupils had produced. And I wish the source view in LyX was editable. Then you will like to use fodt in LibreOffice. Kind regards Regina -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 12/07/2013 at 16:09, Wolfgang Keller wrote: > Wordperfect (or e.g. Framemaker) styles allow to do "structure markup". > > Word, OO and LO "styles" don't. > > In essence, this boils down to the fact that all sane document > processing applications (whether Wordperfect, Framemaker or dozens > of others, LaTeX or anything that outputs structured XML) use nestable > open- and close-"tags", while Word and LO/OO don't. Just because LO/OOo/MSO does not show tags, does not mean that they do not allow "structural markup". In LaTeX, you are free to make the same spaghetti garbage as in any other text processing software. No one prevents you from creating you heading like this: #v+ \vspace{2 cc} {\LARGE \textbf{1.\hspace{1.5 cc}This is my heading}} \vspace{1 cc} #v- It's equivalent to putting empty paragraphs before and after heading and manually formatting it (making text larger and bolder). LaTeX \section{This is my heading} is equivalent to LO's applying one of Heading X styles. > The style concept of both Word and LO/OO however is so severely screwed > up that I've never ever seen a document that would have allowed to > re-use content in any other way (within the same application!) than by > copying and pasting it as unformatted text and then re-applying all > the formatting by hand. This only means that people who you've had working with can not use their tools properly. If they had used styles, you could reuse content of one document within another with ease. OK, I can agree that this is somewhat tools fault (they could make more advanced features more discoverable and easier to understand); but I can not agree that only tools are to blame. > And of course, the "reveal codes" view of Wordperfect at least allowed > to debug documents, while there is absolutely no way to do this with > Word or LO/OO documents MS Word's Style Inspector is pretty useful, but rather hidden feature designed for exactly this task. Unfortunately, LO does not have any equivalent. -- Best regards Mirosław Zalewski -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Wolfgang, Forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to understand what you're saying. You wrote: In essence, this boils down to the fact that all sane document processing applications (whether Wordperfect, Framemaker or dozens of others, LaTeX or anything that outputs structured XML) use nestable open- and close-"tags", while Word and LO/OO don't. I've created my own paragraph styles, and I have one called "BodySingle." It's just a single-spaced body of text with no paragraph indents. When I create a document in WordPerfect (an old Version 7) and look at a document in reveal codes, I get a code that says, for example, "Para Style: BodySingle" before each paragraph that has BodySingle applied to it and the same code at the end of each paragraph with that style. When I look at a similar document in LO's "content.xml" file, I see "text:style-name="BodySingle">" before each BodySingle paragraph and a at the end of each paragraph. The only real difference I see is that LO ends each paragraph with a more generic tag with no specific reference to the applied style whereas WordPerfect ends each paragraph with a specific reference to the applied style. Is that the distinction you're making between the two methods, and if so, how does that matter? Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Wolfgang, You also wrote: The style concept of both Word and LO/OO however is so severely screwed up that I've never ever seen a document that would have allowed to re-use content in any other way (within the same application!) than by copying and pasting it as unformatted text and then re-applying all the formatting by hand. If I understand you correctly (and I'm not at all certain I do), I think I've noticed similar behavior. I've noticed that if I copy and paste text in Word or LO/OO *and* include the closing paragraph marking (¶) then the paragraph formatting will also be pasted, but if I copy text without including the closing paragraph marking, then the text will be pasted using the same paragraph style as the destination paragraph. However, character formatting (bold, italic) is retained in the pasted text. I've never had a problem, as long as I keep the paragraph markings revealed and either select or not select them based on my specific needs at the time. Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: > That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a > process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. > > -Original Message- > From: rost52 > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM > To: users@global.libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set > > styles to Default. Then > create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. > By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub documents using LO: http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? Regards from Tom :) > > From: e-letter >To: Virgil Arrington >Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >> That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a >> process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. > >Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in >digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX >wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. > >> >> -Original Message- >> From: rost52 >> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM >> To: users@global.libreoffice.org >> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >> "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set >> >> styles to Default. Then >> create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. >> > >By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub >documents using LO: >http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Tom, Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying different ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of fun. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? Regards from Tom :) From: e-letter To: Virgil Arrington Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. -Original Message- From: rost52 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub documents using LO: http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: Tom Davies ; e-letter >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 14:11 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >Tom, > >Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying different >ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of >fun. > >Virgil > >-Original Message- >From: Tom Davies >Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM >To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >Hi :) >Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly >hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could >get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? >Regards from >Tom :) > > > > > >> >> From: e-letter >>To: Virgil Arrington >>Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org >>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >> >>On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >>> That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a >>> process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. >> >>Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in >>digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX >>wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. >> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: rost52 >>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM >>> To: users@global.libreoffice.org >>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >>> >>> "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and >>> set >>> >>> styles to Default. Then >>> create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. >>> >> >>By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub >>documents using LO: >>http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way >> >>-- >>To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >>Problems? >>http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >>deleted >> >> >> >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >deleted > > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate well. I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from the beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 14:11 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Tom, Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying different ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of fun. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? Regards from Tom :) From: e-letter To: Virgil Arrington Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. -Original Message- From: rost52 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub documents using LO: http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults so it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years later already. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: Tom Davies ; e-letter >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting >the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried >doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >output file was generated. > >I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't >handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. > >I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have >several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate >well. > >I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from the >beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you >may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. > >These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. > >Virgil > >-Original Message- >From: Tom Davies >Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM >To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >Hi :) >Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications >Regards from >Tom :) > > > > > >>____________ >> From: Virgil Arrington >>To: Tom Davies ; e-letter >>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 14:11 >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >> >>Tom, >> >>Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying >>different >>ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of >>fun. >> >>Virgil >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Tom Davies >>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM >>To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington >>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >>Hi :) >>Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly >>hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could >>get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a >>go? >>Regards from >>Tom :) >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> From: e-letter >>>To: Virgil Arrington >>>Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org >>>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 >>>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >>> >>> >>>On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >>>> That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a >>>> process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. >>> >>>Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in >>>digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX >>>wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. >>> >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: rost52 >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM >>>> To: users@global.libreoffice.org >>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >>>> >>>> "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and >>>> set >>>> >>>> styles to Default. Then >>>> create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. >>>> >>> >>>By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub >>>documents using LO: >>>http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way >>> >>>-- >>>To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >>>Problems? >>>http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Neti
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first paragraph after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is excellent typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. However, it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it will, and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. Try to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults so it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years later already. Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate well. I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from the beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 14:11 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Tom, Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying different ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of fun. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? Regards from Tom :) From: e-letter To: Virgil Arrington Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. -Original Message- From: rost52 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:00 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer "As a proud papa..." I would open the document in Writer, select all and set styles to Default. Then create the styles I wanted and reformat the whole document. By coincidence there has been a guide published to write epub documents using LO: http://opensource.com/life/13/8/how-create-ebook-open-source-way -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: h
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then installed into LO. It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts when installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which is beyond my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better than AOO, I'm happy to commit to just one of the suites. Virgil -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM To: Tom Davies Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first paragraph after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is excellent typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. However, it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it will, and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. Try to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults so it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years later already. Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate well. I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from the beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 14:11 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Tom, Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying different ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of fun. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? Regards from Tom :) From: e-letter To: Virgil Arrington Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 12/07/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: That works just fine. For my tastes, however, it's not quite as smooth a process or polished a result as with LyX/LaTeX. Agree, for PDF, but it seems that the future of viewing content is in digital format via mobile devices. So for archiving to paper, LaTeX wins and maybe epub for electronic archives. -Original
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) That progress is sometimes a double-edge sword. Many of us stick with older branches, or in other word only upgrade most of our machines to the newer branch when the newer one reaches x.x.3 or x.x.4. On the other hand AOO is more stable for more of it's branches life-cycles precisely because they don't develop so fast, which kinda makes it a tad dull and unlikely to succeed in the longer term once everyone else has left it so far behind. There is a guide somewhere on how to get 2 versions of these suites working alongside each other. It's not trivial, unless you have done it before in which case it's probably quite easy Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: Tom Davies >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 20:15 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first >downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then >uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then >installed into LO. > >It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts when >installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which is beyond >my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better than AOO, I'm >happy to commit to just one of the suites. > >Virgil > > > >-Original Message- >From: Virgil Arrington >Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM >To: Tom Davies >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying >default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it >handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first paragraph >after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is excellent >typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. However, >it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default >Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of >contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. > >As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it will, >and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. Try >to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. > >Virgil > >-Original Message- >From: Tom Davies >Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM >To: Virgil Arrington >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >Hi :) >That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults so >it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & >Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the >guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years >later already. >Regards from >Tom :) > > > > > >> >> From: Virgil Arrington >>To: Tom Davies ; e-letter >>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >>Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >> >>I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting >>the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried >>doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >>output file was generated. >> >>I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >>designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't >>handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. >> >>I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have >>several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate >>well. >> >>I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from >>the >>beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you >>may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. >> >>These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. >> >>Virgil >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Tom Davies >>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM >>To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter >>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >>Hi :) >>Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link >>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publication
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
There is a version for AOO, several actually written by a guy with an Italian country code. One for version if for 3.x, another for 4.0, and a new Beta one. So you may need to look into which one you are using for which version of LO or AOO. I found this out by Googling "odf to epub converter" On 08/13/2013 04:15 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then installed into LO. It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts when installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which is beyond my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better than AOO, I'm happy to commit to just one of the suites. Virgil -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM To: Tom Davies Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first paragraph after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is excellent typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. However, it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it will, and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. Try to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults so it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years later already. Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate well. I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from the beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 14:11 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Tom, Do you have a link to one of the guides? I may have a go at trying different ways of converting one to EPUB just to see how it works. Might be kind of fun. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:31 AM To: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Has anyone successfully tried this to get ePub versions of something fairly hefty such as our Published Guides? I think it would be great if we could get all those guides done as ePub wouldn't it? Anyone able to give it a go? Regards from Tom :) From: e-letter To: Virgil Arrington Cc: rost52 ; users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 12:56 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Write
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I got mine from http://lukesblog.it/ebooks/ebook-tools/writer2epub/. There's a version that words for LO 3, LO 4 and AOO 3, along with a separate version for AOO 4. My problem wasn't that I had the wrong version. I got the version that was designed for LO. It just wouldn't install as long as I had AOO on my system. Once I uninstalled AOO, the extension worked fine with LO. Of course, I have no idea *why* this behavior occurred. I won't blame AOO or anything else. I can't even scientifically say that LO and AOO had a conflict. I just know that, once I uninstalled AOO, I was able to install the writer2epub extension into my LO. I recalled someone else on the list saying that LO and AOO may conflict by sharing common Windows registry entries. That stuff is beyond my abilities, but I just shared it for others who may be interested. Virgil -Original Message- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:41 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer There is a version for AOO, several actually written by a guy with an Italian country code. One for version if for 3.x, another for 4.0, and a new Beta one. So you may need to look into which one you are using for which version of LO or AOO. I found this out by Googling "odf to epub converter" On 08/13/2013 04:15 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then installed into LO. It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts when installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which is beyond my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better than AOO, I'm happy to commit to just one of the suites. Virgil -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM To: Tom Davies Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first paragraph after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is excellent typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. However, it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it will, and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. Try to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults so it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years later already. Regards from Tom :) From: Virgil Arrington To: Tom Davies ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. I then tried it using a theology paper I wrote a few years ago. I have several outline numbered styles, which again, Writer2epub doesn't translate well. I think Writer2epub will work best with a document that is designed from the beginning for EPUB, but if you want to translate an existing document, you may need to do considerable work to make it ready for the extension. These are just my observations after a half-hour experiment. Virgil -Original Message- From: Tom Davies Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:46 AM To: Virgil Arrington ; e-letter Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) Sorry, got distracted. Here's a link https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications Regards from Tom :)
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi all ! Virgil, How did you try to install the "writer2epub" ? Did you use the wizzard that have LO or AOO ? Regards, Jorge Rodríguez El mar, 13-08-2013 a las 20:36 -0400, Virgil Arrington escribió: > I got mine from http://lukesblog.it/ebooks/ebook-tools/writer2epub/. There's > a version that words for LO 3, LO 4 and AOO 3, along with a separate version > for AOO 4. > > My problem wasn't that I had the wrong version. I got the version that was > designed for LO. It just wouldn't install as long as I had AOO on my system. > Once I uninstalled AOO, the extension worked fine with LO. > > Of course, I have no idea *why* this behavior occurred. I won't blame AOO or > anything else. I can't even scientifically say that LO and AOO had a > conflict. I just know that, once I uninstalled AOO, I was able to install > the writer2epub extension into my LO. I recalled someone else on the list > saying that LO and AOO may conflict by sharing common Windows registry > entries. That stuff is beyond my abilities, but I just shared it for others > who may be interested. > > Virgil > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:41 PM > To: users@global.libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > There is a version for AOO, several actually written by a guy with an > Italian country code. > > One for version if for 3.x, another for 4.0, and a new Beta one. > > So you may need to look into which one you are using for which version > of LO or AOO. > > I found this out by Googling "odf to epub converter" > > > On 08/13/2013 04:15 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: > > Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first > > downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then > > uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then > > installed into LO. > > > > It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts > > when installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which is > > beyond my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better than > > AOO, I'm happy to commit to just one of the suites. > > > > Virgil > > > > > > > > -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington > > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM > > To: Tom Davies > > Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org > > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > > I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying > > default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it > > handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first paragraph > > after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is > > excellent > > typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. However, > > it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default > > Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of > > contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. > > > > As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it will, > > and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. > > Try > > to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. > > > > Virgil > > > > -Original Message- From: Tom Davies > > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM > > To: Virgil Arrington > > Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org > > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > > Hi :) > > That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults > > so > > it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & > > Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the > > guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years > > later already. > > Regards from > > Tom :) > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> From: Virgil Arrington > >> To: Tom Davies ; e-letter > >> Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org > >> Sent: Tuesday, 13 August 2013, 19:22 > >> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >> > >> > >> I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried > >> converting > >> the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried > >&
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: > I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting > > the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried > doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB > output file was generated. > > I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently > designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't > handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. > That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to (x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) That sounds like a nightmare! You made it look like a series of stepping stones rather than the single hop we were hoping for. However, when i look again you are really talking about just 1 format in the middle? Then the extra editing is just an optional finesse that Virgil could probably dodge for the test-run? The command-line bit also sounds a bit scary but if you could give a command that Virgil could try out by using copy&paste then that might be "do-able" Regards from Tom :) > > From: e-letter >To: Virgil Arrington >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 10:44 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >> I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting >> >> the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried >> doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >> output file was generated. >> >> I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >> designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't >> handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. >> > >That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to >(x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit >the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command >terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi. Has anybody tried to do the exporting with eLAIX? It's in the official LO extensions repository, and I think it works quite well: http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/elaix I can give it a try, if someone gives me the link to a specific ODT document. Regards, Joaquín De: Tom Davies Para: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington CC: "users@global.libreoffice.org" Enviado: Miércoles 14 de agosto de 2013 12:30 Asunto: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) That sounds like a nightmare! You made it look like a series of stepping stones rather than the single hop we were hoping for. However, when i look again you are really talking about just 1 format in the middle? Then the extra editing is just an optional finesse that Virgil could probably dodge for the test-run? The command-line bit also sounds a bit scary but if you could give a command that Virgil could try out by using copy&paste then that might be "do-able" Regards from Tom :) > > From: e-letter >To: Virgil Arrington >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 10:44 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >> I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting >> >> the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried >> doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >> output file was generated. >> >> I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >> designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't >> handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. >> > >That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to >(x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit >the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command >terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications > > From: Joaquín Lameiro >To: Tom Davies ; e-letter ; Virgil >Arrington >Cc: "users@global.libreoffice.org" >Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 11:47 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >Hi. > >Has anybody tried to do the exporting with eLAIX? It's in the official LO >extensions repository, and I think it works quite well: >http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/elaix > >I can give it a try, if someone gives me the link to a specific ODT document. >Regards, >Joaquín > > > > > >De: Tom Davies >Para: e-letter ; Virgil Arrington >CC: "users@global.libreoffice.org" >Enviado: Miércoles 14 de agosto de 2013 12:30 >Asunto: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >Hi :) >That sounds like a nightmare! You made it look like a series of stepping >stones rather than the single hop we were hoping for. > >However, when i look again you are really talking about just 1 format in the >middle? Then the extra editing is just an optional finesse that Virgil could >probably dodge for the test-run? > >The command-line bit also sounds a bit scary but if you could give a command >that Virgil could try out by using copy&paste then that might be "do-able" >Regards from >Tom :) > > > > > >>____________ >> From: e-letter >>To: Virgil Arrington >>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >>Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 10:44 >>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer >> >> >>On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >>> I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting >>> >>> the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried >>> doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >>> output file was generated. >>> >>> I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >>> designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't >>> handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. >>> >> >>That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to >>(x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit >>the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command >>terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. >> >>-- >>To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >>Problems? >>http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted >> >> >> >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I installed it through LO's extension manager. I also found that I had to change the name of the extension file from a "zip" file to an "oxt" file. I just did that through Windows Explorer. Even though LO's extension manager says it recognizes ZIP files, it installed better with an OXT extension. I don't know why. Now that I think about it, maybe that was the key variable rather than uninstalling AOO. Looks like I changed too many variables to be able to say for certain *which* change made the whole thing work. And, I did it all so quickly that I cannot now recall the order of all my changes. Virgil -Original Message- From: jorge Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:43 PM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: Kracked_P_P---webmaster ; users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi all ! Virgil, How did you try to install the "writer2epub" ? Did you use the wizzard that have LO or AOO ? Regards, Jorge Rodríguez El mar, 13-08-2013 a las 20:36 -0400, Virgil Arrington escribió: I got mine from http://lukesblog.it/ebooks/ebook-tools/writer2epub/. There's a version that words for LO 3, LO 4 and AOO 3, along with a separate version for AOO 4. My problem wasn't that I had the wrong version. I got the version that was designed for LO. It just wouldn't install as long as I had AOO on my system. Once I uninstalled AOO, the extension worked fine with LO. Of course, I have no idea *why* this behavior occurred. I won't blame AOO or anything else. I can't even scientifically say that LO and AOO had a conflict. I just know that, once I uninstalled AOO, I was able to install the writer2epub extension into my LO. I recalled someone else on the list saying that LO and AOO may conflict by sharing common Windows registry entries. That stuff is beyond my abilities, but I just shared it for others who may be interested. Virgil -Original Message- From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:41 PM To: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer There is a version for AOO, several actually written by a guy with an Italian country code. One for version if for 3.x, another for 4.0, and a new Beta one. So you may need to look into which one you are using for which version of LO or AOO. I found this out by Googling "odf to epub converter" On 08/13/2013 04:15 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: > Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first > downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then > uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then > installed into LO. > > It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts > when installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which > is > beyond my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better > than > AOO, I'm happy to commit to just one of the suites. > > Virgil > > > > -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM > To: Tom Davies > Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying > default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it > handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first > paragraph > after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is > excellent > typography (a standard in LaTeX) and often missing in EPUB files. > However, > it still ignored my attempt to apply outline numbering to the default > Heading styles. But, it did recognize the heading styles for my table of > contents and navigation keys on my Kindle. > > As you allude, this is a good tool as long as you understand what it > will, > and will not, do. Work within its parameters and you'll like the result. > Try > to make it work *your* way, and it will disappoint. > > Virgil > > -Original Message- From: Tom Davies > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:41 PM > To: Virgil Arrington > Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > Hi :) > That sounds a lot like LaTeX being best if you stick with their defaults > so > it kinda makes sense to me. I think the Docs Team (i think mostly Dan & > Jean wasn't it?) experimented with a few ways of getting ePubs from the > guides and they might have useful ideas about it even though it's years > later already. > Regards from > Tom :) > > > > > >> >> From: Virgil Arrington >> To: Tom Davies ; e-letter &
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
I was just playing around. I'm not so motivated as to do all of what you're suggesting. I've had a Kindle now for a couple years, and I've been fascinated with trying different ways of creating/converting documents for its use. The basic Kindle (as opposed to the Fire), is just a text reader. While it will display graphics, it's not very elegant. I've found that books with anything more than a stream of text create issues for the Kindle. I have to wonder if the LO user guides are simply too complex for elegant translation to e-reader format. Virgil -Original Message- From: e-letter Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:44 AM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to (x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) Yes, it was a good trial run. I was wondering how much further you would have time for or if anyone else would be keen to "take the batton" and see if they could take it further. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: e-letter >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 12:45 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >I was just playing around. I'm not so motivated as to do all of what you're >suggesting. > >I've had a Kindle now for a couple years, and I've been fascinated with trying >different ways of creating/converting documents for its use. The basic Kindle >(as opposed to the Fire), is just a text reader. While it will display >graphics, it's not very elegant. I've found that books with anything more than >a stream of text create issues for the Kindle. > >I have to wonder if the LO user guides are simply too complex for elegant >translation to e-reader format. > >Virgil > >-Original Message- From: e-letter >Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:44 AM >To: Virgil Arrington >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > >On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >> I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting >> >> the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried >> doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >> output file was generated. >> >> I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >> designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't >> handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. >> > >That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to >(x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit >the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command >terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. > >-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
The strange thing was I didn’t extract the oxt from the zip. I simply renamed the zip to an oxt. There was no oxt file inside the zip. Virgil From: Tom Davies Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 2:36 PM To: Virgil Arrington ; users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi :) I think extracting the Oxt from the Zip file makes it work better but i haven't really dabbled with Extensions much at all so i really don't know either Regards from Tom :) -- From: Virgil Arrington To: users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 14 August 2013, 12:34 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer I installed it through LO's extension manager. I also found that I had to change the name of the extension file from a "zip" file to an "oxt" file. I just did that through Windows Explorer. Even though LO's extension manager says it recognizes ZIP files, it installed better with an OXT extension. I don't know why. Now that I think about it, maybe that was the key variable rather than uninstalling AOO. Looks like I changed too many variables to be able to say for certain *which* change made the whole thing work. And, I did it all so quickly that I cannot now recall the order of all my changes. Virgil -Original Message- From: jorge Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:43 PM To: Virgil Arrington Cc: Kracked_P_P---webmaster ; users@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer Hi all ! Virgil, How did you try to install the "writer2epub" ? Did you use the wizzard that have LO or AOO ? Regards, Jorge Rodríguez El mar, 13-08-2013 a las 20:36 -0400, Virgil Arrington escribió: > I got mine from http://lukesblog.it/ebooks/ebook-tools/writer2epub/. > There's > a version that words for LO 3, LO 4 and AOO 3, along with a separate > version > for AOO 4. > > My problem wasn't that I had the wrong version. I got the version that was > designed for LO. It just wouldn't install as long as I had AOO on my > system. > Once I uninstalled AOO, the extension worked fine with LO. > > Of course, I have no idea *why* this behavior occurred. I won't blame AOO > or > anything else. I can't even scientifically say that LO and AOO had a > conflict. I just know that, once I uninstalled AOO, I was able to install > the writer2epub extension into my LO. I recalled someone else on the list > saying that LO and AOO may conflict by sharing common Windows registry > entries. That stuff is beyond my abilities, but I just shared it for > others > who may be interested. > > Virgil > > > > -----Original Message- > From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:41 PM > To: users@global.libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > There is a version for AOO, several actually written by a guy with an > Italian country code. > > One for version if for 3.x, another for 4.0, and a new Beta one. > > So you may need to look into which one you are using for which version > of LO or AOO. > > I found this out by Googling "odf to epub converter" > > > On 08/13/2013 04:15 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote: > > Another thing I noticed about the writer2epub extension. When I first > > downloaded it, it would not properly install into my LO 3.6.7. I then > > uninstalled my AOO 3.4.1 and AOO 4.0. The writer2epub extension then > > installed into LO. > > > > It appears (as others have alluded) that LO and AOO have some conflicts > > when installed side by side on the same machine (registry perhaps which > > is > > beyond my knowledge). Since I'm finding that LO is progressing better > > than > > AOO, I'm happy to commit to just one of the suites. > > > > Virgil > > > > > > > > -Original Message- From: Virgil Arrington > > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:58 PM > > To: Tom Davies > > Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org > > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > > > I just redid the Writer2epub test with my theology paper after applying > > default LO styles. It worked a *lot* better. I really liked the way it > > handled the default "Text Body" style by not indenting the first > > paragraph > > after a heading and then indenting subsequent paragraphs. That is > > excellent > > typ
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
At 21:02 14/08/2013 -0400, Virgil Arrington wrote: The strange thing was I didn't extract the oxt from the zip. I simply renamed the zip to an oxt. There was no oxt file inside the zip. You didn't need to. An .oxt file, like other ODF formats, is itself a zip archive. What has happened is that the process of downloading the file has incorrectly modified its .odt extension to .zip - which is not unusual, in fact. (Don't ask me why or in what circumstances this occurs, but it does: it appears to be a quirk of Internet Explorer.) In such cases, you need merely to rename the file back to have its correct original extension - as you did. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Nice reply Brian and spot on. And correct it is a quirk of IE to see a file with a compressed content, and assume it's a zip. And again I continue my head scratching until I'm bald, as to why people still want to use IE with it's archaic code, and ongoing quirks and security flaws. This when there are superior and up to date Internet browsers out there. Andrew Brown On 15/08/2013 06:08 AM, Brian Barker wrote: At 21:02 14/08/2013 -0400, Virgil Arrington wrote: The strange thing was I didn't extract the oxt from the zip. I simply renamed the zip to an oxt. There was no oxt file inside the zip. You didn't need to. An .oxt file, like other ODF formats, is itself a zip archive. What has happened is that the process of downloading the file has incorrectly modified its .odt extension to .zip - which is not unusual, in fact. (Don't ask me why or in what circumstances this occurs, but it does: it appears to be a quirk of Internet Explorer.) In such cases, you need merely to rename the file back to have its correct original extension - as you did. Brian Barker -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
trie the Elaix extension On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to (x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 08/15/2013 08:20 AM, Fernand Vanrie wrote: trie the Elaix extension On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried converting the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then tried doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB output file was generated. I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It can't handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to (x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. I just tried the eLaix extension. As a quick test, I just converted the eLaix manual itself, a thirty page, highly formatted .odt file. I worked surprisingly well, with just a few quirks. I look forward to using it more. Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On 14/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: > > display graphics, it's not very elegant. I've found that books with anything > > more than a stream of text create issues for the Kindle. > Thankfully there are a multitude of other devices available with the better advantage of epub support. > I have to wonder if the LO user guides are simply too complex for elegant > translation to e-reader format. > They should be; if an academic article with maths and graphics (e.g. http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/jtc/2013/349870.epub) can be created, the LO user guides should be possible. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
> On 14/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >> >> display graphics, it's not very elegant. I've found that books with >> anything >> >> more than a stream of text create issues for the Kindle. Ultimately, in the end, you have to export (save as) to HTML anyway (to import into Calibre). Once you've done that, you can arrange your graphics as you see fit. But just taking a LibreOffice doc (with images) and getting into a format the meatgrinder of various ebook sites will accept (such as Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, Kobo, etc) will be a challenge. >> > > Thankfully there are a multitude of other devices available with the > better advantage of epub support. > >> I have to wonder if the LO user guides are simply too complex for >> elegant >> translation to e-reader format. >> > > They should be; if an academic article with maths and graphics (e.g. > http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/jtc/2013/349870.epub) can be > created, the LO user guides should be possible. > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- jack wallen, jr <--- lover of entropy Writer of the I Zombie, Fringe Killer, Shero, and Screampark series as well as the upcoming The Book of Jacob Series. Learn more @ www.monkeypantz.net -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
Hi :) That was an interesting choice that i wouldn't have considered. Nice one! Hopefully that might make it easier for people with a good reason for wanting ePubs to make them for themselves. Is there any chance of forwarding your work to the Docs Team here? Perhaps ask them if they could get it into Lulu and/or more relevant stores as a 3rd party guide? What license does the original eLaix guide use? Is it a "CC by SA" copy-left agreement? Could you relicense the new work with the same license? Typically with the official guides they use the CC-by-SA (a Creative Commons copy-left license) and so contributors are expected to add their own name to the list of contributors. Some people are too shy to do so but i quite like the list showing lots of names to show off the variety of people involved. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Virgil Arrington >To: users@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 13:27 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer > > >On 08/15/2013 08:20 AM, Fernand Vanrie wrote: >> trie the Elaix extension >>> On 13/08/2013, Virgil Arrington wrote: >>>> I just did a couple experiments with LO and Writer2epub. I tried >>>> converting >>>> >>>> the entire 390 page Getting Started book to EPUB. It choked. I then >>>> tried >>>> doing the same with just the 18 page introduction. Same result. No EPUB >>>> output file was generated. >>>> >>>> I noticed that Writer2epub doesn't like custom styles. It is apparently >>>> designed for fairly simple documents, using LO's built-in styles. It >>>> can't >>>> handle the elaborate formatting of the LO User Guides. >>>> >>> That was an ambitious test! Perhaps LaTeX might be better: convert to >>> (x)html using tex4ht and then compile the epub. Personally, would edit >>> the xml using a text editor and compile the epub via the command >>> terminal; compilation is surprisingly easy. >>> >> >> >I just tried the eLaix extension. As a quick test, I just converted the >eLaix manual itself, a thirty page, highly formatted .odt file. I worked >surprisingly well, with just a few quirks. I look forward to using it more. > >Virgil > >-- >To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
On Friday, August 16, 2013, jack wallen wrote: > > > On 14/08/2013, Virgil Arrington > > wrote: > >> > >> display graphics, it's not very elegant. I've found that books with > >> anything > >> > >> more than a stream of text create issues for the Kindle. > > Ultimately, in the end, you have to export (save as) to HTML anyway (to > import into Calibre). Once you've done that, you can arrange your graphics > as you see fit. But just taking a LibreOffice doc (with images) and > getting into a format the meatgrinder of various ebook sites will accept > (such as Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, Kobo, etc) will be a challenge. > > Wrong! Calibre does a great job of converting .odt to ePub without an intermediate conversion to HTML. > > >> > > > > Thankfully there are a multitude of other devices available with the > > better advantage of epub support. > > > >> I have to wonder if the LO user guides are simply too complex for > >> elegant > >> translation to e-reader format. > >> > > > > They should be; if an academic article with maths and graphics (e.g. > > http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/jtc/2013/349870.epub) can be > > created, the LO user guides should be possible. > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: > > users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > > Problems? > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > > > -- > jack wallen, jr <--- lover of entropy > > Writer of the I Zombie, Fringe Killer, Shero, and Screampark series as > well as the upcoming The Book of Jacob Series. > Learn more @ www.monkeypantz.net > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: > users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Book-writing with Writer
>> >> Wrong! Calibre does a great job of converting .odt to ePub without an > intermediate conversion to HTML. That may be the case, but formatting from HTML will render better results when doing the conversion. This is especially true when uploading books to Barnes & Nobel. Their meatgrinder doesn't deal well with things like centering and such. You have to manually edit the CSS of the ebook file in order to get objects actually centered. I've done this on a fourteen ebooks so far. > >> >> >> >> > >> > Thankfully there are a multitude of other devices available with the >> > better advantage of epub support. >> > >> >> I have to wonder if the LO user guides are simply too complex for >> >> elegant >> >> translation to e-reader format. >> >> >> > >> > They should be; if an academic article with maths and graphics (e.g. >> > http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/jtc/2013/349870.epub) can be >> > created, the LO user guides should be possible. >> > >> > -- >> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: >> users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> > Problems? >> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> > Posting guidelines + more: >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> > deleted >> > >> >> >> -- >> jack wallen, jr <--- lover of entropy >> >> Writer of the I Zombie, Fringe Killer, Shero, and Screampark series as >> well as the upcoming The Book of Jacob Series. >> Learn more @ www.monkeypantz.net >> >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: >> users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> deleted >> >> > -- jack wallen, jr <--- lover of entropy Writer of the I Zombie, Fringe Killer, Shero, and Screampark series as well as the upcoming The Book of Jacob Series. Learn more @ www.monkeypantz.net -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted