F26: balsa users having trouble sending mail?
If you use balsa, in Fedora 26 you may have trouble sending mail (see Bug 1479177 - since upgrade balsa is no longer able to send emails[1]). balsa uses libesmtp to send the mail, but libesmtp was accidentally built without SSL support (fixed in my Bug 1483350 - libesmtp built w/o SSL support -- compat-openssl10 required[2]). balsa itself should also be built for compat-openssl10. In the past (e.g., F20 that I upgraded from) a mail server with a self-signed certificate was accepted, but is now rejected with a useless error message. I think that a self-signed cert is OK for submitting email as it is only used to keep the data (and your password) private (fixed in my Bug 1483649 - balsa no longer accepts mail server self-signed certificate[3]). When composing a message, the toolbar Queue button sends immediately instead of queuing (fixed in my Bug 1483354 - balsa message window Queue toolbar button sends immediately[4]). [1]: <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1479177> [2]: <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1483350> [3]: <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1483649> [4]: <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1483354> -- TonyN.:' <mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com> ' <http://www.georgeanelson.com/> ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: balsa
Peter Bloomfield: >> That all looks pretty harmless. I've seen similar Gtk-WARNINGS, with >> no obvious issues. The "No cache..." message is normal for the first >> time an IMAP folder is used, and "quitting" isn't serious. >> >> I don't see anything that would lead to problems. Bob Goodwin: > Yes, so I was told by Ed Greshko, it [in Fedora 24] still wasn't > receiving but I haven't had time to find what's wrong there, the > install didn't go smoothly and I find that once I start "fixing" stuff > there are strange problems that happen. If the install works right off > then Balsa seems to just work. It's disconcerting to see a pile of warnings when you run programs from the command line, sometimes they are completely unimportant to you, only of interest to those writing the software, but you have no way of knowing that. One thing to bear in mind is that, often, software has a variety of options to it as to how it's going to do a task, and you're seeing the options that got discarded. e.g. If I run mplayer, I get a slew of messages about not being able to use IPv6, an infra-red remote control, and other things. None of which stop it doing what I've asked it to do, at that time. And most of those things, I can identify and not care about. But when it comes to the things like you saw, you cannot tell if there's a software problem, or it's just reporting things that are unimportant to the program working. Various dbus warning messages do look like error reports, when you see them whiz by. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: balsa
On 06/16/16 14:15:10, Peter Bloomfield wrote: Hi Bob, On 06/16/2016 06:35:06 AM Thu, Bob Goodwin wrote: I just went through the Balsa setup routine on an up to date Fedora 24 beta vm on the same computer I have been working on with the following errors from debug. Note: I now have balsa running on three computers and I believe they all work properly, two desktops and a Dell notebook, all Fedora 23 updated and XFCE. [bobg@box10vm24 ~]$ balsa (balsa:30114): Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to register client: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files I just thought I would ask for what to try before I mes with it myself ... That all looks pretty harmless. I've seen similar Gtk-WARNINGS, with no obvious issues. The "No cache..." message is normal for the first time an IMAP folder is used, and "quitting" isn't serious. I don't see anything that would lead to problems. Peter + Yes, so I was told by Ed Greshko, it [in Fedora 24] still wasn't receiving but I haven't had time to find what's wrong there, the install didn't go smoothly and I find that once I start "fixing" stuff there are strange problems that happen. If the install works right off then Balsa seems to just work. I've changed the theme and the Fedora 23 instances work well, I've been using it. I need to find a spell checker. Bob -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: balsa
On 06/16/16 06:51, Ed Greshko wrote: On 06/16/16 18:35, Bob Goodwin wrote: >(balsa:30114): Gtk-WARNING **: Allocating size to GtkSeparatorToolItem 0x559103114560 >without calling gtk_widget_get_preferred_width/height(). >How does the code know the size to allocate? >No cache for mail.messagingengine.com - quitting. >Message: 139644687616192, 0, POP3 >Message: 139644687616592, 0, Local mailbox: Outbox >Message: 139644687616784, 0, Local mailbox: Draftbox >Message: 139644687616976, 0, Local mailbox: Sentbox >Message: 139644687617168, 0, Local mailbox: Inbox >Message: 139644687616384, 1, Finished > >I just thought I would ask for what to try before I mes with it myself ... > >Any help will be appreciated, Ignore these gtk warnings and don't worry about them. GTK is all about the GUI creation/widgets. If everything is being displayed correctly all is fine. -- Yes it looks like it is working so I'll leave it as it is. Thank you, Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE Fastmail.us IMAP -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: balsa
On 06/16/16 18:35, Bob Goodwin wrote: > (balsa:30114): Gtk-WARNING **: Allocating size to GtkSeparatorToolItem > 0x559103114560 > without calling gtk_widget_get_preferred_width/height(). > How does the code know the size to allocate? > No cache for mail.messagingengine.com - quitting. > Message: 139644687616192, 0, POP3 > Message: 139644687616592, 0, Local mailbox: Outbox > Message: 139644687616784, 0, Local mailbox: Draftbox > Message: 139644687616976, 0, Local mailbox: Sentbox > Message: 139644687617168, 0, Local mailbox: Inbox > Message: 139644687616384, 1, Finished > > I just thought I would ask for what to try before I mes with it myself ... > > Any help will be appreciated, Ignore these gtk warnings and don't worry about them. GTK is all about the GUI creation/widgets. If everything is being displayed correctly all is fine. -- You're Welcome Zachary Quinto -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: balsa
I just went through the Balsa setup routine on an up to date Fedora 24 beta vm on the same computer I have been working on with the following errors from debug. Note: I now have balsa running on three computers and I believe they all work properly, two desktops and a Dell notebook, all Fedora 23 updated and XFCE. [bobg@box10vm24 ~]$ balsa (balsa:30114): Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to register client: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files ** Message: init gpgme version 1.4.3 ** Message: protocol OpenPGP: engine /usr/bin/gpg2 (home (null), version 2.1.11) ** Message: protocol CMS: engine /usr/bin/gpgsm (home (null), version 2.1.11) ** Message: protocol GPGCONF: engine /usr/bin/gpgconf (home (null), version 2.1.11) ** Message: protocol Assuan: engine /home/bobg/.gnupg/S.gpg-agent (home !GPG_AGENT, version 1.0) ** Message: protocol UIServer: engine /home/bobg/.gnupg/S.uiserver (home (null), version 1.0) ** Message: OpenPGP protocol supported ** Message: CMS (aka S/MIME) protocol supported Network is available (Thu 16 Jun 2016 06:11:34 AM EDT) Server loaded, host: mail.messagingengine.com, SSL. (balsa:30114): Gtk-WARNING **: Allocating size to GtkToolButton 0x5591030dfea0 without calling gtk_widget_get_preferred_width/height(). How does the code know the size to allocate? (balsa:30114): Gtk-WARNING **: Allocating size to GtkSeparatorToolItem 0x559103114560 without calling gtk_widget_get_preferred_width/height(). How does the code know the size to allocate? No cache for mail.messagingengine.com - quitting. Message: 139644687616192, 0, POP3 Message: 139644687616592, 0, Local mailbox: Outbox Message: 139644687616784, 0, Local mailbox: Draftbox Message: 139644687616976, 0, Local mailbox: Sentbox Message: 139644687617168, 0, Local mailbox: Inbox Message: 139644687616384, 1, Finished I just thought I would ask for what to try before I mes with it myself ... Any help will be appreciated, Bob -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/27/16 20:56, Ed Greshko wrote: There is one thing you may want to consider to make your life and the life of those trying to help a bit easier. As a "Wildblue" customer are you allowed more than one email account with your subscription? If the answer is "yes" you may want to think about creating a "test" account for someone, say Samuel if he is willing, to use and see if they can get it working. It may be much faster that way. Just a thought. + That sounds like a good idea until I consider making a "test" account, Sunday after spending a lot of time trying to fix some email user accounts via my ISP's menu system which in theory allows me to set my passwords and account names but in practice does not work for me, I got tech support to make the changes and they had to call for help, another party fixed those addresses and things worked again. Until I booted Monday morning and found that I was locked out of my email account, so after thrashing around again I was back on the phone at four in the morning, got someone who remembered me and was aware of my problem and he fixed things again. Since I last wrote about my struggles with Balsa I subscribed to Fastmail and their email system works reliably, I chose IMAP since that is what the other users on my system need for access as they move around during the day. Balsa works with the Fastmail account to connect and receive mail without any problem. However Balsa has one major problem for me, I can barely read the gray text on the off-white background. I will never understand why page designers do that? I have not been able to find how to force it to give me white text on black which I really need. So I will continue to use Thunderbird as long as it has a presentation I can read and can work around any improvements they make that I don't want. As I said I have Balsa installed and it does work ... Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE Fastmail.us IMAP -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/28/16 06:23, Bob Goodwin wrote: > On 05/27/16 15:37, Samuel Sieb wrote: >>> >> You're right, I didn't explain what stunnel did. I suppose I expect people >> to >> investigate before running commands given by strangers. :-) > + > > As a frequent contributor to this list you have acquired a good degree of > credibility > among those of us who need help and follow the list. So there may be a > tendency to just > follow instructions offered and consider the details afterward. > > Very little computer activity today, mainly fixing horse pasture fences, and > there's > still more to be done, some changes ... > There is one thing you may want to consider to make your life and the life of those trying to help a bit easier. As a "Wildblue" customer are you allowed more than one email account with your subscription? If the answer is "yes" you may want to think about creating a "test" account for someone, say Samuel if he is willing, to use and see if they can get it working. It may be much faster that way. Just a thought. -- You're Welcome Zachary Quinto -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/27/16 15:37, Samuel Sieb wrote: You're right, I didn't explain what stunnel did. I suppose I expect people to investigate before running commands given by strangers. :-) + As a frequent contributor to this list you have acquired a good degree of credibility among those of us who need help and follow the list. So there may be a tendency to just follow instructions offered and consider the details afterward. Very little computer activity today, mainly fixing horse pasture fences, and there's still more to be done, some changes ... Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/27/2016 12:58 AM, Tim wrote: On Thu, 2016-05-26 at 10:34 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: Please follow the thread. He was getting a command error when connecting with pop3s. I gave him a stunnel configuration so that he could use wireshark to see what the command is. stunnel will do the ssl part, so he needs to connect to stunnel with pop3, not pop3s. I have been, the whole thing. But I don't recall noticing you mention, anywhere, that you make an unencrypted connection to stunnel, and it makes an encrypted connection to the server under test, as a kind of proxy. The same seems apparent in your most recent conversations with the original poster, too. Considering the steps you're, now, outlining. You're right, I didn't explain what stunnel did. I suppose I expect people to investigate before running commands given by strangers. :-) http://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/GXOAKARN5CASOEK7PXJCZUTI3ROU4KDH/ In the first message I said to connect to localhost:110. I assumed that it would be clear that it wasn't encrypted. https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/NOY4GFZ7MS7QDNU6ZG7WZ3CQXVIT3JEA/ In this message, I tried to be clear that it was pop3, not pop3s. But I suppose that might have been a little too subtle. In future, I will keep in mind that this is the users list, not devel, and try to include more details. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-26 at 10:34 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > Please follow the thread. He was getting a command error when > connecting with pop3s. I gave him a stunnel configuration so that he > could use wireshark to see what the command is. stunnel will do the > ssl part, so he needs to connect to stunnel with pop3, not pop3s. I have been, the whole thing. But I don't recall noticing you mention, anywhere, that you make an unencrypted connection to stunnel, and it makes an encrypted connection to the server under test, as a kind of proxy. The same seems apparent in your most recent conversations with the original poster, too. Considering the steps you're, now, outlining. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> Note that connecting to Gmail may require you to set up the account >> with Gnome-Online-Accounts (GOA) because of recent changes in Google's >> authentication policies, i.e. just inserting your password in Balsa may >> not be enough Bob Goodwin: > Hmm, perhaps there is some problem there? I just assumed that the > settings that work for Thunderbird would work for Gmail. I have been > using Gmail at times recently due to problems with Wildblue. However it > appears Wildblue has straightened out the problems and it is back to > normal.. When I dallied with gmail, they were doing per-application passwords. Quite how they identified that a different program was accessing their servers, I do not know (there are various ways of fingerprinting software, from their handshaking routines). Though I can certainly see how they'd easily tell apart a web browser from a mail client. You had to go into Google accounts and set up an extra login for each application (same account, different pass). -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/2016 04:23 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: There's a screenshot here: https://imagebin.ca/v/2iX1ciaZYak6 You're watching the wrong interface. You're getting the stunnel traffic to the mail server. You need to listen on the loopback interface. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/16 18:28, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 05/26/2016 02:46 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: On 05/26/16 16:00, Samuel Sieb wrote: It's still trying to do ssl. Make sure the protocol is set to pop3, not pop3s and make sure there are no ssl checkboxes set. -- In setup there is only one box for SSL and that is checked. Right, that needs to be unchecked. You don't want to be doing ssl. Stunnel will do the ssl connection. You need to be able to see the unencrypted data stream in wireshark. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org + There's a screenshot here: https://imagebin.ca/v/2iX1ciaZYak6 Also see attached streamcontent3 TOO BIG. Msg rejected. I can resend if you need to see the raw data ... Maybe this means something to you? I don't know hoe to interpret it. -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/2016 02:46 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: On 05/26/16 16:00, Samuel Sieb wrote: It's still trying to do ssl. Make sure the protocol is set to pop3, not pop3s and make sure there are no ssl checkboxes set. -- In setup there is only one box for SSL and that is checked. Right, that needs to be unchecked. You don't want to be doing ssl. Stunnel will do the ssl connection. You need to be able to see the unencrypted data stream in wireshark. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/16 16:00, Samuel Sieb wrote: It's still trying to do ssl. Make sure the protocol is set to pop3, not pop3s and make sure there are no ssl checkboxes set. -- In setup there is only one box for SSL and that is checked. Here are the first few lines from /home/bobg/.balsa.config. This looks ok to me. [mailbox-1] Server=localhost:110 Anonymous=false RememberPasswd=true SSL=true TLSMode=1 Check=true Delete=true DisableApop=false Filter=false FilterCmd=procmail -f - Type=LibBalsaMailboxPOP3 Name=localhost:110 [mailbox-Inbox] Path=/var/spool/mail/bobg Type=LibBalsaMailboxMbox Name=Inbox [mailbox-Outbox] Path=/home/bobg/mail/outbox Type=LibBalsaMailboxMbox Name=Outbox As a side note, the same Wildblue configuration settings that I use for Thunderbird also work with Claws. It's just Balsa that chokes ... Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/2016 12:48 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: I set things, name, password, etc, back to Wildblue except for the server localhost:110 Balsa protests: POP3 Error: Could not set up SSL when I click "Check." This is a screenshot: https://imagebin.ca/v/2iW1LpVm2gMg And I attached the data file it saved. It doesn't look like there is anything meaningful there? It's still trying to do ssl. Make sure the protocol is set to pop3, not pop3s and make sure there are no ssl checkboxes set. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/16 13:36, Samuel Sieb wrote: No, set the username and password to what you need for the server you're connecting to. In this case, it's wildblue. The purpose of this setup was so that you could use wireshark on the localhost interface to see what command error you were getting. If it's not doing that now, then forget this whole thread and connect directly as pop3s. :-) -- + I set things, name, password, etc, back to Wildblue except for the server localhost:110 Balsa protests: POP3 Error: Could not set up SSL when I click "Check." This is a screenshot: https://imagebin.ca/v/2iW1LpVm2gMg And I attached the data file it saved. It doesn't look like there is anything meaningful there? Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 streamcontent2 Description: Binary data -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/2016 10:12 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote: On 05/26/16 12:38, Samuel Sieb wrote: Are you trying to connect to wildblue or gmail? The stunnel configuration was setup to connect to wildblue to see what the command error was. So you need to set your username and password to be whatever you use for wildblue, but set the server to be localhost:110. And use pop3, not pop3s as the protocol. -- + Wildblue actually, but I just thought I'd try Gmail this morning and see if balsa would work with the same settings as it does on Thunderbird. Either way my question seems to be the same, perhaps it doesn't matter. perhaps I should set the server to be localhost:110 and leave the rest blank? No, set the username and password to what you need for the server you're connecting to. In this case, it's wildblue. The purpose of this setup was so that you could use wireshark on the localhost interface to see what command error you were getting. If it's not doing that now, then forget this whole thread and connect directly as pop3s. :-) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/2016 10:06 AM, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 26 May 2016, Samuel Sieb sent: use pop3, not pop3s as the protocol. That'll only work if the service provider has POP3 enabled. Their help page didn't list anything but secure connections. So, a failure to use POP3 has to be assessed with that in mind. Please follow the thread. He was getting a command error when connecting with pop3s. I gave him a stunnel configuration so that he could use wireshark to see what the command is. stunnel will do the ssl part, so he needs to connect to stunnel with pop3, not pop3s. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/16 12:38, Samuel Sieb wrote: Are you trying to connect to wildblue or gmail? The stunnel configuration was setup to connect to wildblue to see what the command error was. So you need to set your username and password to be whatever you use for wildblue, but set the server to be localhost:110. And use pop3, not pop3s as the protocol. -- + Wildblue actually, but I just thought I'd try Gmail this morning and see if balsa would work with the same settings as it does on Thunderbird. Either way my question seems to be the same, perhaps it doesn't matter. perhaps I should set the server to be localhost:110 and leave the rest blank? -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/16 12:49, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: Note that connecting to Gmail may require you to set up the account with Gnome-Online-Accounts (GOA) because of recent changes in Google's authentication policies, i.e. just inserting your password in Balsa may not be enough (though I'm not a Balsa user), e.g. if you have 2-factor authentication this is the way to do it. poc + Hmm, perhaps there is some problem there? I just assumed that the settings that work for Thunderbird would work for Gmail. I have been using Gmail at times recently due to problems with Wildblue. However it appears Wildblue has straightened out the problems and it is back to normal.. I will look into the gmail settings again .. Thank, Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
Allegedly, on or about 26 May 2016, Samuel Sieb sent: > use pop3, not pop3s as the protocol. That'll only work if the service provider has POP3 enabled. Their help page didn't list anything but secure connections. So, a failure to use POP3 has to be assessed with that in mind. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 Boilerplate: All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages posted to the mailing list. I'd just like to say that vinyl record crackles and pops are far less annoying than digigigigital mu-u-u-u-usic hiccicicicups and yooo-u tu-be ... pauses. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-26 at 09:38 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 05/26/2016 09:21 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote: > > > > Ok, this produces output but I'm not sure how to configure balsa? > > "set > > Balsa to use localhost:110 as the incoming mail server" is clear > > enough > > but I left the rest as I would set it for gmail.com and I suspect > > that > > is not right since the output doesn't seem to produce anything I > > recognize as being useful. > > > > e.g should the password be for gmail or my user, does it even > > matter for > > this case? > > > Are you trying to connect to wildblue or gmail? The stunnel > configuration was setup to connect to wildblue to see what the > command > error was. So you need to set your username and password to be > whatever > you use for wildblue, but set the server to be localhost:110. And > use > pop3, not pop3s as the protocol. Note that connecting to Gmail may require you to set up the account with Gnome-Online-Accounts (GOA) because of recent changes in Google's authentication policies, i.e. just inserting your password in Balsa may not be enough (though I'm not a Balsa user), e.g. if you have 2-factor authentication this is the way to do it. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/26/2016 09:21 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote: Ok, this produces output but I'm not sure how to configure balsa? "set Balsa to use localhost:110 as the incoming mail server" is clear enough but I left the rest as I would set it for gmail.com and I suspect that is not right since the output doesn't seem to produce anything I recognize as being useful. e.g should the password be for gmail or my user, does it even matter for this case? Are you trying to connect to wildblue or gmail? The stunnel configuration was setup to connect to wildblue to see what the command error was. So you need to set your username and password to be whatever you use for wildblue, but set the server to be localhost:110. And use pop3, not pop3s as the protocol. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/16 16:47, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 05/20/2016 12:00 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: So I tried mail.wildblue.net:995 fir the incoming server address, still get ERR: Invalid Command when I "check" incoming mail. In that case, you are definitely using pop3s which would make using wireshark a lot more difficult. See below for a solution. Since my troubleshooting skills are not sufficient it seems installing from something other than dnf might be worth a try. What difference will that make? It will still be the same software and it seems to be more of a configuration issue. In order for you to find out what command is causing the trouble, you can use stunnel (you will probably need to install it). Put the following lines in a file called stunnel.conf: foreground=yes syslog=no [pop3] client=yes accept=localhost:110 connect=mail.wildblue.net:995 As root, run "stunnel stunnel.conf". Now, set Balsa to use localhost:110 as the incoming mail server. Start wireshark and listen to the localhost interface with the filter rule "port 110". Tell Balsa to check for emails. Hopefully you get the same error message. Right-click one of the packets and select "follow tcp stream". You should now see the conversation between Balsa and the server. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org + Ok, this produces output but I'm not sure how to configure balsa? "set Balsa to use localhost:110 as the incoming mail server" is clear enough but I left the rest as I would set it for gmail.com and I suspect that is not right since the output doesn't seem to produce anything I recognize as being useful. e.g should the password be for gmail or my user, does it even matter for this case? I need a little more clarification on those things. Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Wed, 2016-05-25 at 05:21 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: > Your suggestion of Fastmail.com or something similar looks like a > possible solution if we can endure the address change. I will consider > trying that. Sounds like it's time to do something like it. You've mentioned years of annoying changes, bad mail handling, bad spam handling, bad support services, etc. If you can find a good mail host that you like, I think you're going to appreciate it quite a lot. I have my own domain name, and for some time was happy with my host, but then they changed something, and messed me about. So I upped sticks and shifted to another host. They recently got bought out, and are annoying me, so I'll be looking to change, again. Since it's my domain, I can shift it and keep all my addresses, nothing changes but where the service runs from. One thing to be cautious about is going to some all-in-one web-hosting service. Many of them offer a combined website with X number of email addresses. Quite often, they only thing they really care about is the web-serving, and the email hosting is an afterthought. Though I've not had trouble with that aspect, other people have. The typical thing is a service provider not really caring about spammers in their midst, until they get blacklisted. Since all their customers share IP addresses, one bastard ruins it for everyone. It can take some time to get de-listed. A mail service provider, on the other hand, is primarily concerned about mail working, and should have taken steps to kill spam before it can get through their system, and is highly motivated not to get blacklisted, in the first place. For what it's worth, many ISPs are blacklisted, especially the big ones. Huge number of customers will include many infested machines, never mind those deliberately spamming. So it's a thing that often goes un-noticed by many users. It's another of those "the computer didn't do what I wanted" experiences. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/25/16 02:20, Tim wrote: Allegedly, on or about 24 May 2016, Bob Goodwin sent: I have tried to respond to this message a number of times without success due, at least in part, to problems with my ISP's email system, presently when I try to send that particular responding message to the list via gmail instead of the Wildblue.net I get: "Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain wildblue.net by mx.wildblue.net. [69.168.102.194]. The error that the other server returned was: 554 5.7.1 [P4] Message blocked due to spam content in the message." The rejection may be down to how you're sending. The address you use in your "from" field may be checked by the servers your posting through, to see if they want to allow it. So, trying to post from a gmail account through a wildblue SMTP server may just not work (though that seems a particularly dumb domain for an ISP to block). . The advantage to posting through gmail is that I get an error message indicating the message is rejected by the wildblue mail server and a reason for rejection, spam in the case at hand. Sending the same message through the wildblue mail server produces no notice that the message has simply been dropped. I don't know what's happened until I see it has not shown up on the users list ... My ISP is wildblue but they sold to Viasat and they, wildblue, are essentially just re-selling Viasat service. I've had this account for a bit more than ten years, initially wildblue had their own mail server and even provided space I could use to "paste" files, that was a plus. After a few years they changed the e-mail to google, my address remained the same but I lost the paste-server. Gmail did a good job otherwise, their spam filtering seemed to work well. More recently google stopped handling their e-mail and they are now providing Zimbra e-mail. The spam filtering is not as good, I rely on Thunderbird to filter a lot of it and even worse it is now taking out messages I want. Getting these problems corrected is difficult, user contact is through "tech support" and tech support has no control over the spam filtering, they just take complaints and "escalate" them to some higher authority offering no ticket number or means of tracking the problem by the user ... I can get good e-mail service with Thunderbird by using Gmail instead but that produces new mail addresses which creates more problems and we are hesitant to do that since it involves a large number of correspondents. Your suggestion of Fastmail.com or something similar looks like a possible solution if we can endure the address change. I will consider trying that. Bob Also, as your mail goes through the internet, it passes through several servers, that may do the same check. And decide that mail written from some domain ought to originate from it. Gmail, itself, might do the same. Deciding that some other SMTP server is not an authorised poster for gmail mail. See: DNS SPF records for futher enlightenment/confusion. While it's laudible to take steps to stop the sending of mail, I've yet to come across any system that doesn't cause breakage for non-spammers. Particularly when you have to work around a bad ISP. It seems to be yet another push towards making people do their mail through a website, and that's nearly the worst way to do it. It appears the "spam" is the url's for several screenshots I included in my message. When sent via Wildblue there is no error message, apparently it is just spam and dumped without notice. Okay, the spam checker may be erroneous, I don't like them for that reason. They can get overzealous, and decide that everything from some domain is spam, regardless of the actual content. SMTP blocking of spam can only really deal with it in two ways, without generating more spam. Silently kill it, or refuse to accept it during the sending process (your mail program will fail during the attempt, and may or may not show you an error response from the server). If it were to accept it, assess it, and try to reject it back to the sender (afterwards), it'd look at the "from" address and return it there. Spammers have been faking the "from" address for many years, so their spam will either spam whoever they sent it to, or whomever's "from" address they faked. In addition I found that they had disabled my e-mail account which lead to problems with my list subscription, the whole mess has been a nightmare with a lot of time spent on the telephone. There has been no explanation for any of this. Could be an automated response from all the failed attempt to use it. Some ISPs mail server is abysmal, and it can be well worth getting your own domain name and using it with a professional mail service (ones that know what they're doing, and let their customers do mail properly). There are some inexpensive ones. e.g. I believe
Re: Balsa -
Allegedly, on or about 24 May 2016, Bob Goodwin sent: > I have tried to respond to this message a number of times without > success due, at least in part, to problems with my ISP's email system, > presently when I try to send that particular responding message to the > list via gmail instead of the Wildblue.net I get: > > "Technical details of permanent failure: > Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the > server for the recipient domain wildblue.net by mx.wildblue.net. > [69.168.102.194]. > > The error that the other server returned was: > 554 5.7.1 [P4] Message blocked due to spam content in the message." The rejection may be down to how you're sending. The address you use in your "from" field may be checked by the servers your posting through, to see if they want to allow it. So, trying to post from a gmail account through a wildblue SMTP server may just not work (though that seems a particularly dumb domain for an ISP to block). Also, as your mail goes through the internet, it passes through several servers, that may do the same check. And decide that mail written from some domain ought to originate from it. Gmail, itself, might do the same. Deciding that some other SMTP server is not an authorised poster for gmail mail. See: DNS SPF records for futher enlightenment/confusion. While it's laudible to take steps to stop the sending of mail, I've yet to come across any system that doesn't cause breakage for non-spammers. Particularly when you have to work around a bad ISP. It seems to be yet another push towards making people do their mail through a website, and that's nearly the worst way to do it. > It appears the "spam" is the url's for several screenshots I included in my > message. > > When sent via Wildblue there is no error message, apparently it is > just spam and dumped without notice. Okay, the spam checker may be erroneous, I don't like them for that reason. They can get overzealous, and decide that everything from some domain is spam, regardless of the actual content. SMTP blocking of spam can only really deal with it in two ways, without generating more spam. Silently kill it, or refuse to accept it during the sending process (your mail program will fail during the attempt, and may or may not show you an error response from the server). If it were to accept it, assess it, and try to reject it back to the sender (afterwards), it'd look at the "from" address and return it there. Spammers have been faking the "from" address for many years, so their spam will either spam whoever they sent it to, or whomever's "from" address they faked. > In addition I found that they had disabled my e-mail account which > lead to problems with my list subscription, the whole mess has been a > nightmare with a lot of time spent on the telephone. There has been no > explanation for any of this. Could be an automated response from all the failed attempt to use it. Some ISPs mail server is abysmal, and it can be well worth getting your own domain name and using it with a professional mail service (ones that know what they're doing, and let their customers do mail properly). There are some inexpensive ones. e.g. I believe Fastmail.com has a $25 per year service. The other advantages of your own domain name, are that you're not tied to your ISP. If you want to move, you can, and you don't have to lose your email address. And you can create the email addresses that you want and need (whether that be multiple addresses, or exactly the address that you want, rather than some scrambled thing because someone else on your ISP has the same name). -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 Boilerplate: All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages posted to the mailing list. Windows (TM) [Typhoid Mary]. They refuse to believe that there's anything wrong with it, but everyone else knows Windows is a disease that spreads. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/22/16 05:05, Tim wrote: Tim: >>I've uploaded some screenshots from my installation, here: >>http://imgur.com/a/f11EE + I have tried to respond to this message a number of times without success due, at least in part, to problems with my ISP's email system, presently when I try to send that particular responding message to the list via gmail instead of the Wildblue.net I get: "Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain wildblue.net by mx.wildblue.net. [69.168.102.194]. The error that the other server returned was: 554 5.7.1 [P4] Message blocked due to spam content in the message." It appears the "spam" is the url's for several screenshots I included in my message. When sent via Wildblue there is no error message, apparently it is just spam and dumped without notice. In addition I found that they had disabled my e-mail account which lead to problems with my list subscription, the whole mess has been a nightmare with a lot of time spent on the telephone. There has been no explanation for any of this. I am still interested in making balsa work and will get back to it eventually. Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
Tim: >> I've uploaded some screenshots from my installation, here: >> http://imgur.com/a/f11EE Bob Goodwin: > Similar but different, not as ornate, display. I have only two > options, POP3 or IMAP, choose pop3, and a check box for SSL. > > See: https://imagebin.ca/v/2hwHRtnmI5hU > Okay, that's the initial set-up walk-through. What happens if you go into the preferences after the program is running? (That's where I got my screenshots from.) Do your settings exist in there? Can you configure things to work from there? That may help to narrow down whether there's a bug with the initial configurator, general preferences, the program, or your ISP. I used to have trouble with Evolution's walk-through configuration, I'd set it to not require login to the SMTP server, and it'd always set it to require it. I always had to go into the preferences, after the walk-through, and change it. > And with my entries: https://imagebin.ca/v/2hwM3tHz8xhc > which produce the "Invalid Command" error message when I "check" for > mail. I notice that there's a debugging option in my preferences, not sure where the output is, though. But it looks worth exploring. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/21/16 05:34, Tim wrote: Tim: The bottom half is where you set up the sending servers (SMTP). Again, you get to give the configurations a name for your own purposes, the server address (with a colon between address and the port number), the login name and password, and some other options. Bob Goodwin: yes, and the GUI never allows me to set the server address there [smtp.wildblue.net]. I can set it in config-private with a text editor though and that seems to make outgoing work. In what way does it not let you set an address? No pop-up to type it into, the text entry area is greyed-out, something else? + I can put the cursor on the box, nothing happens, typing produces nothing. Greyed out? I dunno what to call it since Balsa acts differently, block turns black when the cursor is on it, white when I click, and should then accept input, in this case does not. I completely removed every vestige of balsa I could find and re-installed anew with dnf install balsa. No improvement resulted but I know there's nothing corrupted from my earlier efforts ... Remove and reinstalling only affects system installation files, you will have to manually manage user-files. As far as I can see, they're in /home/username/.balsa/ If you haven't messed with any system/software files, then there's no point doing the Windows remove/replace hokey cokey dance. To reset things, quit the program, ensure that it is actually shut down, remove user files, and start up the program. + Each time I change the balsa set-up I cd to .balsa and rm -fr *, have done that routinely with balsa, seems the only way since I have not determined hoe to get to everything directly via its files. I "removed everything else" by doing an updatedb and then locate balsa, then removed everything that showed manually, perhaps there is a better way but that's all I can think of. Perhaps I should install from whatever source you used, I don't care if it's in French, just want to see this work. I just did yum install balsa from the repos for my old version of Fedora (20). My point about the French screenshots was that was all I found in my quick search, looking for screenshot examples. Trying to see if there's a difference between my version and current versions. I have changed "localhost:25" to the proper server address [smtp.wildblue.net] each time as part of my normal setup procedure, do you think it may want localhost? That can only work if you have a SMTP server installed on your computer, *and* it's configured to send mail out to the rest of the world (which is NOT The default). Normally the port numbers required are 995 and 465. 465 is SMTPS (SMTP with some kind of security). 995 is POP3S (POP3 with some kind of security). + I know that, as I have said I have set up e-mail applications, mostly Thunderbird, what seems like a thousand times over twenty plus years, it usually works without a hitch, balsa has been an exception. I might add I have other problems which I blame on my ISP, they have somehow managed to block everything from vzwpix.com forcing me to use gmail for communication with the iPhones, something important to me and using gmail for the purpose is an extra step. But that is another problem, just leads me to believe it may be related to my balsa problems. The some-kind-of-security could be SSL or TLS. Both local and remote halves of the connection need to use the same type. That is, the same methods of connection, and the same encryption. Remember that in recent times, some encryption codes have been disabled for security problems, so that's one potential area of failure (either you or them may be trying to use a scheme that's now disabled). Within the configuration windows for entering server addresses, there's another (Advanced) tab that gives you options about TLS/SSL. You may need to go through the combinations available to you to make your client use the ones your server requires you to use. Setting up encrypted mail can be a bit of an experiment, service providers like to do oddball things, and don't keep their help pages up-to-date. Likewise, clients give a plethora of options that are not clear which ones you should set. In general, with GUI software, you're better to not hand configure their options, it's too easy for you to make typing errors or set conflicting settings. I would try just setting the server domain names without adding port numbers, and toggle the various security options, while you go through test sends/receives. Then, if that gets you nowhere, start adding port numbers. But mail clients should really be switching from standard non-encrypted port numbers to alternative standard encrypted port numbers, when you click on SSL/TLS options, by themselves. + I think I have done these things as you suggest ... So I tried mail.wildblue.net:995 fir the incoming server address, still get ERR: Invalid Command when I "check" incoming mail
Re: Balsa -
Tim: >> The bottom half is where you set up the sending servers (SMTP). >> Again, you get to give the configurations a name for your own >> purposes, the server address (with a colon between address and the >> port number), the login name and password, and some other options. Bob Goodwin: > yes, and the GUI never allows me to set the server address there > [smtp.wildblue.net]. I can set it in config-private with a text editor > though and that seems to make outgoing work. In what way does it not let you set an address? No pop-up to type it into, the text entry area is greyed-out, something else? > I completely removed every vestige of balsa I could find and > re-installed anew with dnf install balsa. No improvement resulted but > I know there's nothing corrupted from my earlier efforts ... Remove and reinstalling only affects system installation files, you will have to manually manage user-files. As far as I can see, they're in /home/username/.balsa/ If you haven't messed with any system/software files, then there's no point doing the Windows remove/replace hokey cokey dance. To reset things, quit the program, ensure that it is actually shut down, remove user files, and start up the program. > Perhaps I should install from whatever source you used, I don't care > if it's in French, just want to see this work. I just did yum install balsa from the repos for my old version of Fedora (20). My point about the French screenshots was that was all I found in my quick search, looking for screenshot examples. Trying to see if there's a difference between my version and current versions. > > I have changed "localhost:25" to the proper server address > [smtp.wildblue.net] each time as part of my normal setup procedure, do > you think it may want localhost? That can only work if you have a SMTP server installed on your computer, *and* it's configured to send mail out to the rest of the world (which is NOT The default). > Normally the port numbers required are 995 and 465. 465 is SMTPS (SMTP with some kind of security). 995 is POP3S (POP3 with some kind of security). The some-kind-of-security could be SSL or TLS. Both local and remote halves of the connection need to use the same type. That is, the same methods of connection, and the same encryption. Remember that in recent times, some encryption codes have been disabled for security problems, so that's one potential area of failure (either you or them may be trying to use a scheme that's now disabled). Within the configuration windows for entering server addresses, there's another (Advanced) tab that gives you options about TLS/SSL. You may need to go through the combinations available to you to make your client use the ones your server requires you to use. Setting up encrypted mail can be a bit of an experiment, service providers like to do oddball things, and don't keep their help pages up-to-date. Likewise, clients give a plethora of options that are not clear which ones you should set. In general, with GUI software, you're better to not hand configure their options, it's too easy for you to make typing errors or set conflicting settings. I would try just setting the server domain names without adding port numbers, and toggle the various security options, while you go through test sends/receives. Then, if that gets you nowhere, start adding port numbers. But mail clients should really be switching from standard non-encrypted port numbers to alternative standard encrypted port numbers, when you click on SSL/TLS options, by themselves. > > So I tried mail.wildblue.net:995 fir the incoming server address, > still get ERR: Invalid Command when I "check" incoming mail. Are you certain that you're supposed to be using POP3S? POP3 POP v3 unsecured (username and password are not encrypted) POP3S POP v3 secured (username and password are encrypted) Or is it POP versus IMAP that you've got wrong. Is this appropriate to your service provider: http://help.exede.net/articles/General/POP-IMAP-settings-for-Exede-and-WildBlue-email I got there from go.wildblue.net I suppose we should also ask the obvious: On the computer that you're trying to do this on, is other networking, working? Is directly connected? What's it go through, routers, firewall boxes? Is it a straight OS system, or are you running through a virtual machine? I've uploaded some screenshots from my installation, here: http://imgur.com/a/f11EE Is your version using the same layout? If so, that makes it a bit easier to talk through things. In mine, it's open the preferences and see this Window, click on the top-most option in the left column to show the options you see in that screenshot. Clicking the Add button in the top half of the Remote Mailbox Servers will pop up the windows that's shown in the second screenshot. It's in the Basic tab, showing what I hope are self-obvi
Re: Balsa -
On 05/21/16 08:21, Bob Goodwin wrote: > > wireshark protests: "port 110" isn't a valid display filter: "110" was > unexpected in this context. You are entering that in the wrong place. You want to be in "Capture Options", which can be reached by clicking on the second icon on the left which is between the words "Edit View" in the menu. Looks like a gear in a circle. It goes in the box called "Capture Filter". As you type the box should change from red to green as you enter to indicate if you have a valid filter. -- You're Welcome Zachary Quinto -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/16 18:58, Samuel Sieb wrote: It's possible that the Fedora maintainer may have added patches, but in this case, there are none. Ok, I was grasping at a straw there. "Start wireshark and listen to the localhost interface with the filter rule "port 110"." I'm having trouble doing this. wireshark protests: "port 110" isn't a valid display filter: "110" was unexpected in this context. I'm trying to learn how to use Wireshark, it may take a few days, if ever ... -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/2016 02:43 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: On 05/20/16 16:47, Samuel Sieb wrote: What difference will that make? It will still be the same software and it seems to be more of a configuration issue. . I believe applications provided by dnf can have changes that may not exist when obtained from other sources? It's possible that the Fedora maintainer may have added patches, but in this case, there are none. http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/rpms/balsa.git/plain/balsa.spec?h=f23 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/16 16:47, Samuel Sieb wrote: What difference will that make? It will still be the same software and it seems to be more of a configuration issue. . I believe applications provided by dnf can have changes that may not exist when obtained from other sources? In order for you to find out what command is causing the trouble, you can use stunnel (you will probably need to install it). Put the following lines in a file called stunnel.conf: foreground=yes syslog=no [pop3] client=yes accept=localhost:110 connect=mail.wildblue.net:995 As root, run "stunnel stunnel.conf". Now, set Balsa to use localhost:110 as the incoming mail server. Start wireshark and listen to the localhost interface with the filter rule "port 110". Tell Balsa to check for emails. Hopefully you get the same error message. Right-click one of the packets and select "follow tcp stream". You should now see the conversation between Balsa and the server. -- Yes I will try this. It appears that stunnel is already installed in F-23. Thanks, Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/2016 12:00 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: So I tried mail.wildblue.net:995 fir the incoming server address, still get ERR: Invalid Command when I "check" incoming mail. In that case, you are definitely using pop3s which would make using wireshark a lot more difficult. See below for a solution. Since my troubleshooting skills are not sufficient it seems installing from something other than dnf might be worth a try. What difference will that make? It will still be the same software and it seems to be more of a configuration issue. In order for you to find out what command is causing the trouble, you can use stunnel (you will probably need to install it). Put the following lines in a file called stunnel.conf: foreground=yes syslog=no [pop3] client=yes accept=localhost:110 connect=mail.wildblue.net:995 As root, run "stunnel stunnel.conf". Now, set Balsa to use localhost:110 as the incoming mail server. Start wireshark and listen to the localhost interface with the filter rule "port 110". Tell Balsa to check for emails. Hopefully you get the same error message. Right-click one of the packets and select "follow tcp stream". You should now see the conversation between Balsa and the server. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/16 13:15, Tim wrote: --- I've just installed Balsa, on my out-of-date system, to have a play, and got it working within a couple of minutes of fiddling. I had to manually create a /var/spool/mail/timtesting file to make it happy, as root, then chown tim:mail /var/spool/mail/timtesting. I could have let it use my existing spool file, but I didn't want *it* messing up anything that my normal mail clients were using. If things have not changed too much between it and what you're using. Open the preferences, and look at the mail options section. In mine, you have a Mail Options heading, and two sub-headings for Incoming and Outgoing. The Mail Options heading, itself, brings up the choices for setting up server parameters. The sub-headings are choices for how it deals with ingoing and outgoing mail, within itself. In the Mail Options settings panel, the top half concerns where you get your mail from (POP or IMAP), where you enter a descriptive name for your mailbox (if you had several, this lets you tell them apart in a non-technical way), the actual mail server address, your login name and password, and some other options. e.g. Descriptive name: work mail Server: pop3.example.com Username: tim Password: gobbledegook The middle bit is to do where it stores mail on your computer. e.g. /home/tim/balsamailtest The bottom half is where you set up the sending servers (SMTP). Again, you get to give the configurations a name for your own purposes, the server address (with a colon between address and the port number), the login name and password, and some other options. yes, and the GUI never allows me to set the server address there [smtp.wildblue.net]. I can set it in config-private with a text editor though and that seems to make outgoing work. e.g. Descriptive name: all mail Server: smtp.example.com:25 Username: tim Password: gobbledegook I hadn't tested whether it needed :25 after the server address, it just started out that way, with localhost:25, and I followed the example. But I've just tried it, and it doesn't need it. Most mail clients presume normal port numbers, unless told to do something different. SMTP is normally on port 25, POP3 is normally on port 110, and IMAP is normally on port 143 (have a look through /etc/services for lots of other common port assignments). This didn't seem, to me, any harder to set up than any other mail client. Is your version similar to that? . I completely removed every vestige of balsa I could find and re-installed anew with dnf install balsa. No improvement resulted but I know there's nothing corrupted from my earlier efforts ... Perhaps I should install from whatever source you used, I don't care if it's in French, just want to see this work. I have changed "localhost:25" to the proper server address [smtp.wildblue.net] each time as part of my normal setup procedure, do you think it may want localhost? Strange ... No I tried that and it tells me it can't reach my connection. Normally the port numbers required are 995 and 465. So I tried mail.wildblue.net:995 fir the incoming server address, still get ERR: Invalid Command when I "check" incoming mail. Since my troubleshooting skills are not sufficient it seems installing from something other than dnf might be worth a try. -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Fri, 2016-05-20 at 12:15 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote:
> After adding my username via gedit on the bottom line of
> "config-private" below, sending a message from balsa compose requested
> a password and the message is received by Thunderbird. I then checked
> remember password too.
>
> [bobg@Box10 .balsa]$ cat config-private
> [mailbox-1]
> Username=bobgood...@wildblue.net
> Password=encrypted gibberish
>
> [smtp-server-Default]
> Username=bobgood...@wildblue.net
I hope that you fully exited the program before hand-editing any config
files. Not doing so can lead to all sorts of shenanigans (such as
programs not seeing your changes, and programs writing back their cached
settings to the config file as they exit).
It's been years since I've tried balsa, and the screenshots I found of
it were in French, but most mail clients are somewhat similar to
configure. Usually, you can manage to work out one if you can manage to
work out another. Snares often come up when encryption is used, there's
a variety of techniques, and both sides need to agree with an encryption
type, protocols, and the ports used. Some, however, do not give you any
entry box to enter a password in their config. They'll pop-up a
separate requester when you try to fetch your mail, and that's where
you'd enter and store it.
You are using the right incoming protocol (POP or IMAP), whichever your
mail service provider offers?
---
I've just installed Balsa, on my out-of-date system, to have a play, and
got it working within a couple of minutes of fiddling. I had to
manually create a /var/spool/mail/timtesting file to make it happy, as
root, then chown tim:mail /var/spool/mail/timtesting. I could have let
it use my existing spool file, but I didn't want *it* messing up
anything that my normal mail clients were using.
If things have not changed too much between it and what you're using.
Open the preferences, and look at the mail options section. In mine,
you have a Mail Options heading, and two sub-headings for Incoming and
Outgoing. The Mail Options heading, itself, brings up the choices for
setting up server parameters. The sub-headings are choices for how it
deals with ingoing and outgoing mail, within itself.
In the Mail Options settings panel, the top half concerns where you get
your mail from (POP or IMAP), where you enter a descriptive name for
your mailbox (if you had several, this lets you tell them apart in a
non-technical way), the actual mail server address, your login name and
password, and some other options.
e.g. Descriptive name: work mail
Server: pop3.example.com
Username: tim
Password: gobbledegook
The middle bit is to do where it stores mail on your computer.
e.g. /home/tim/balsamailtest
The bottom half is where you set up the sending servers (SMTP). Again,
you get to give the configurations a name for your own purposes, the
server address (with a colon between address and the port number), the
login name and password, and some other options.
e.g. Descriptive name: all mail
Server: smtp.example.com:25
Username: tim
Password: gobbledegook
I hadn't tested whether it needed :25 after the server address, it just
started out that way, with localhost:25, and I followed the example.
But I've just tried it, and it doesn't need it. Most mail clients
presume normal port numbers, unless told to do something different.
SMTP is normally on port 25, POP3 is normally on port 110, and IMAP is
normally on port 143 (have a look through /etc/services for lots of
other common port assignments).
This didn't seem, to me, any harder to set up than any other mail
client. Is your version similar to that?
--
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/16 10:41, Tim wrote: Perhaps there is >something in the configuration that I am missing and what is being >sent is not what I expect. Okay, after looking back through the thread, is wildblue.net different from your ISP? They may require you to authenticate with them as one of their users. That can throw up a relaying not allowed error message, too. In this case, it's not based upon the address, but based upon only allowing their customers to send through them. Some ISPs do that by getting you to check for new mail (where you're providing username and password, as part of the normal POP or IMAP mail fetching procedure) before trying to send mail. Others require you to send username and password to log into their SMTP server to send mail (your username may be just your username with the ISP, or it may be your whole email address with that ISP). And there's different ways that you can send that information (e.g. unencrypted or encrypted). Carefully look through your settings that you used on your other mail client, that worked, to send mail with that address. After adding my username via gedit on the bottom line of "config-private" below, sending a message from balsa compose requested a password and the message is received by Thunderbird. I then checked remember password too. [bobg@Box10 .balsa]$ cat config-private [mailbox-1] Username=bobgood...@wildblue.net Password=encrypted gibberish [smtp-server-Default] Username=bobgood...@wildblue.net However I have not been able to find where this information [username/password in config file] is entered for incoming mail. Nothing I have tried with the setup GUI has helped. And once anything had been entered it seems I have to rm -fr everything in .balsa. right now it is attempting to download new messages every minute and failing and producing an error message. Removing that requirement via the GUI is not sufficient. Well I can make it send, that's a little progress ... -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Fri, 2016-05-20 at 10:13 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I sent test messages to my usual e-mail address, e.g. > bobgood...@wildblue.net or my working gmail address, both entered via > the balsa "compose" and/or set-up GUI. However this leaves me > wondering about what my ISP is actually getting. Perhaps there is > something in the configuration that I am missing and what is being > sent is not what I expect. Okay, after looking back through the thread, is wildblue.net different from your ISP? They may require you to authenticate with them as one of their users. That can throw up a relaying not allowed error message, too. In this case, it's not based upon the address, but based upon only allowing their customers to send through them. Some ISPs do that by getting you to check for new mail (where you're providing username and password, as part of the normal POP or IMAP mail fetching procedure) before trying to send mail. Others require you to send username and password to log into their SMTP server to send mail (your username may be just your username with the ISP, or it may be your whole email address with that ISP). And there's different ways that you can send that information (e.g. unencrypted or encrypted). Carefully look through your settings that you used on your other mail client, that worked, to send mail with that address. Another cause for a SMTP server giving you a relaying disallowed error message is the IP that you're trying to connect from. Normally, all IPs that they give their customers are automatically allowed. If you're trying to access them when connected to the internet some other way, such as taking your laptop to a friend's place, or a cafe, that they may absolutely refuse to do it, even if you try authenticating. It is possible to use a telnet client as a command line interface to talk to a SMTP server, sending the commands and data that an email client would do, to see what the server says back to you. That lets you poke at a server, to see if you can diagnose a problem that may not be because of your mail client. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/20/16 03:57, Tim wrote: On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 12:23 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: >I haven't been able to make any sense out of the wireshark data yet >but this morning I tried again from gnome instead of xfce, the problem >remains the same, however trying to send a test message from Balsa >produced an error: > >"Balsa Relaying refused550: Relaying Refused > Message left in your Outbox." > >Which once more makes me wonder if it is something my ISP is doing >that causes the no-connect problem? When you sent your test message, was the "from" and/or "to" addresses real ones that work on the public internet? Most mail servers do a basic test, and won't let you send from an address that couldn't be replied to. . I sent test messages to my usual e-mail address, e.g. bobgood...@wildblue.net or my working gmail address, both entered via the balsa "compose" and/or set-up GUI. However this leaves me wondering about what my ISP is actually getting. Perhaps there is something in the configuration that I am missing and what is being sent is not what I expect. I'm not sure of how to check this but I think that next I will look at the configuration files more closely. Thanks for the explanation, Bob e.g. If I send a test mail from <tim@localhost>, it's going to reject that. But if I send it from<t...@example.com>, it will allow it. I don't own example.com, but it passes the basic "is it most-likely real" address test, simply because "example.com" exists. Relaying is about handing over the mail to another server (unless your message is to someone that exists on that server, it has to be passed out to external servers), and that test is a very basic anti-spam technique. Though, one that's fooled by faking up realistic from addresses, as we've all seen in the spam that we get. You get a related, but different error message, if you try to send an email to yourself but using an internal email address that only you know about (e.g. using your internal LAN domain name, one without a public domain). It'll fail because*it* can't relay a message to a server that it doesn't know about. -- -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 13:35 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I subscribed to a balsa list a week or more ago but got no response > and saw no activity there at all. You might want to give the list the details, in case it's been superseded, and someone here knows the alternative. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 12:23 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I haven't been able to make any sense out of the wireshark data yet > but this morning I tried again from gnome instead of xfce, the problem > remains the same, however trying to send a test message from Balsa > produced an error: > > "Balsa Relaying refused550: Relaying Refused > Message left in your Outbox." > > Which once more makes me wonder if it is something my ISP is doing > that causes the no-connect problem? When you sent your test message, was the "from" and/or "to" addresses real ones that work on the public internet? Most mail servers do a basic test, and won't let you send from an address that couldn't be replied to. e.g. If I send a test mail from <tim@localhost>, it's going to reject that. But if I send it from <t...@example.com>, it will allow it. I don't own example.com, but it passes the basic "is it most-likely real" address test, simply because "example.com" exists. Relaying is about handing over the mail to another server (unless your message is to someone that exists on that server, it has to be passed out to external servers), and that test is a very basic anti-spam technique. Though, one that's fooled by faking up realistic from addresses, as we've all seen in the spam that we get. You get a related, but different error message, if you try to send an email to yourself but using an internal email address that only you know about (e.g. using your internal LAN domain name, one without a public domain). It'll fail because *it* can't relay a message to a server that it doesn't know about. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/19/16 13:21, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: If it works with other mail clients (e.g. Thunderbird) then it's a configuration issue. I can't help you with Balsa config, but I presume your ISP has a help page on what you need to set up. poc . Yes, but I have probably set up e-mail accounts on Thunderbird, etc. a thousand times, it always just works. I subscribed to a balsa list a week or more ago but got no response and saw no activity there at all. I'll just keep chipping away at it when I feel so inclined. Thank you, Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 13:01 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: > On 05/19/16 12:37, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Balsa Relaying refused550: Relaying Refused > > > > Message left in your Outbox." > > > > > > > > > > > > Which once more makes me wonder if it is something my ISP is > > > > doing > > > > that > > > > causes the no-connect problem? > > Looks like your ISP has a no-relay policy, which is quite common. > > Basically the ISP doesn't recognise you as someone who can send > > email > > through their server. It often turns out to be an authentication > > problem. > > > > poc > . > > Well then is that something I should call tech support about or can > it > be due to improper balsa configuration? Viasat's tech support is > better > than most, they don't cry foul at the mention of Linux, but I think > they > still depend mainly on their scripted solutions and I like to be > certain > of my position before getting involved with them. If it works with other mail clients (e.g. Thunderbird) then it's a configuration issue. I can't help you with Balsa config, but I presume your ISP has a help page on what you need to set up. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/19/16 12:37, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >"Balsa Relaying refused550: Relaying Refused > Message left in your Outbox." > > >Which once more makes me wonder if it is something my ISP is doing >that >causes the no-connect problem? Looks like your ISP has a no-relay policy, which is quite common. Basically the ISP doesn't recognise you as someone who can send email through their server. It often turns out to be an authentication problem. poc . Well then is that something I should call tech support about or can it be due to improper balsa configuration? Viasat's tech support is better than most, they don't cry foul at the mention of Linux, but I think they still depend mainly on their scripted solutions and I like to be certain of my position before getting involved with them. What to do ... Thanks, Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-19 at 12:23 -0400, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I haven't been able to make any sense out of the wireshark data yet > but > this morning I tried again from gnome instead of xfce, the problem > remains the same, however trying to send a test message from Balsa > produced an error: > > "Balsa Relaying refused 550: Relaying Refused > Message left in your Outbox." > > > Which once more makes me wonder if it is something my ISP is doing > that > causes the no-connect problem? Looks like your ISP has a no-relay policy, which is quite common. Basically the ISP doesn't recognise you as someone who can send email through their server. It often turns out to be an authentication problem. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/18/16 07:55, g wrote: Dunno where to start ... > ===> hello Bob. from main menu; Edit > Preferences > Capture also, look at "Name Resolution", decide what address numbers you want resolved. hth. . I haven't been able to make any sense out of the wireshark data yet but this morning I tried again from gnome instead of xfce, the problem remains the same, however trying to send a test message from Balsa produced an error: "Balsa Relaying refused550: Relaying Refused Message left in your Outbox." Which once more makes me wonder if it is something my ISP is doing that causes the no-connect problem? Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/18/16 21:36, Bob Goodwin wrote: > Edit > Preferences > Capture > > I set to Ethernet port, seems like that ought to show everything? > > Default Interface: enp1s0 > > I would like it to show data for "mail.wildblue.net." Don't see where to tell > it that ... In the "Capture Options" you can specify the "Capture Filter" of "host mail.wildblue.net" and you will get all traffic from/to that particular host. -- You're Welcome Zachary Quinto -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/18/16 07:55, g wrote: On 05/18/2016 03:44 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote: <<<>>> Ok, I have wireshark installed now but using it appears to be a formidable task! First it wants an interface and I have not been able to satisfy that? Dunno where to start ... ===> hello Bob. from main menu; Edit > Preferences > Capture also, look at "Name Resolution", decide what address numbers you want resolved. hth. Edit > Preferences > Capture I set to Ethernet port, seems like that ought to show everything? Default Interface: enp1s0 I would like it to show data for "mail.wildblue.net." Don't see where to tell it that ... -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/18/2016 03:44 AM, Bob Goodwin wrote: <<<>>> > Ok, I have wireshark installed now but using it appears to be a > formidable task! First it wants an interface and I have not been able to > satisfy that? > > Dunno where to start ... > ===> hello Bob. from main menu; Edit > Preferences > Capture also, look at "Name Resolution", decide what address numbers you want resolved. hth. -- peace out. -- If Bill Gates got a dime for every time Windows crashes... ...oh, wait. He does. THAT explains it! -- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. -- CentOS GNU/Linux 6.6 tc,hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/17/16 20:33, Samuel Sieb wrote: On 05/17/2016 02:37 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: When I click on "Check" it says it is checking the mail at "POP3: mail.wildblue.net" but then produces "ERR Invalid Command" That sounds like Balsa is sending a command that your pop server isn't understanding. Try using wireshark to see what it is. Although if you're using pop3s (which you should), it will be a little more difficult. -- . Ok, I have wireshark installed now but using it appears to be a formidable task! First it wants an interface and I have not been able to satisfy that? Dunno where to start ... -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/17/2016 02:37 PM, Bob Goodwin wrote: When I click on "Check" it says it is checking the mail at "POP3: mail.wildblue.net" but then produces "ERR Invalid Command" That sounds like Balsa is sending a command that your pop server isn't understanding. Try using wireshark to see what it is. Although if you're using pop3s (which you should), it will be a little more difficult. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/12/16 06:38, Ed Greshko wrote: FWIW, I installed balsa on a VM and was able to collect mails from gmail. . Well I think I have tried everything suggested without much success. When I click on "Check" it says it is checking the mail at "POP3: mail.wildblue.net" but then produces "ERR Invalid Command" Using my gmail account it does essentially the same thing but never displays the error message. I wonder if my ISP is doing something that is causing the problem? There is always the transit time up and down to the satellite, a system latency of ~500ms. I've configured Balsa from its GUI and .balsa/config looks ok for the items I recognize but there's a lot I don't understand there. I do not usually have a problem setting up mail programs having done Thunderbird et al so many times it's routine ... Balsa has me stumped and I would like to make it work. Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 10:48 -0400, Tony Nelson wrote: > if you have another email account to check from another provider, try > it (even if it won't have any mail). To test email on-demand, send yourself emails. -- tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 16-05-12 03:53:49, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I have installed Balsa in this updated Fedora 23 computer, it runs but > will not connect to the mail server. > > I can click on "check" and it appears to be checking for mail but > produces an error message ending in "ERR Invalid Command." I've been > through the account set up process again thinking I may have had a > typo, but still no luck. ... I use balsa. I suggest running it from the command line with the -d or -D options to debug POP or IMAP connections (`man balsa`). Also, if you have another email account to check from another provider, try it (even if it won't have any mail). -- TonyN.:' <mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com> ' <http://www.georgeanelson.com/> -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Balsa -
On 05/12/16 15:53, Bob Goodwin wrote: > I have installed Balsa in this updated Fedora 23 computer, it runs but will > not connect > to the mail server. > > I can click on "check" and it appears to be checking for mail but produces an > error > message ending in "ERR Invalid Command." I've been through the account set up > process > again thinking I may have had a typo, but still no luck. > > Also after having run Balsa from a terminal I see the following: > > (balsa:0): Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to register client: > GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name > org.gnome.SessionManager > was not provided by any .service files > ** Message: init gpgme version 1.4.3 > ** Message: protocol OpenPGP: engine /usr/bin/gpg2 (home (null), version > 2.1.11) > ** Message: protocol CMS: engine /usr/bin/gpgsm (home (null), version (null)) > ** Message: protocol GPGCONF: engine /usr/bin/gpgconf (home (null), version > 2.1.11) > ** Message: protocol Assuan: engine /home/bobg/.gnupg/S.gpg-agent (home > !GPG_AGENT, > version 1.0) > ** Message: protocol UIServer: engine /home/bobg/.gnupg/S.uiserver (home > (null), version > 1.0) > ** Message: OpenPGP protocol supported > ** Message: CMS protocol not supported, S/MIME will not work! > Network is available (Tue May 10 16:31:42 2016) > > > So "** Message: CMS protocol not supported, S/MIME will not work!" is the > problem? I don't think so since S/MIME is just a method for signing emails with gpg > > Can I fix that? If so what must I do ... It looks like you don't have gnupg2-smime installed. > > I've tried this running both xfce and gnome in Fedora 23 and in a VM with > Fedora 24b, > the result is always the same, I can't collect any mail with balsa ... Same > error message. > > Any thoughts appreciated, > FWIW, I installed balsa on a VM and was able to collect mails from gmail. -- You're Welcome Zachary Quinto -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Balsa -
I have installed Balsa in this updated Fedora 23 computer, it runs but will not connect to the mail server. I can click on "check" and it appears to be checking for mail but produces an error message ending in "ERR Invalid Command." I've been through the account set up process again thinking I may have had a typo, but still no luck. Also after having run Balsa from a terminal I see the following: (balsa:0): Gtk-WARNING **: Failed to register client: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files ** Message: init gpgme version 1.4.3 ** Message: protocol OpenPGP: engine /usr/bin/gpg2 (home (null), version 2.1.11) ** Message: protocol CMS: engine /usr/bin/gpgsm (home (null), version (null)) ** Message: protocol GPGCONF: engine /usr/bin/gpgconf (home (null), version 2.1.11) ** Message: protocol Assuan: engine /home/bobg/.gnupg/S.gpg-agent (home !GPG_AGENT, version 1.0) ** Message: protocol UIServer: engine /home/bobg/.gnupg/S.uiserver (home (null), version 1.0) ** Message: OpenPGP protocol supported ** Message: CMS protocol not supported, S/MIME will not work! Network is available (Tue May 10 16:31:42 2016) So "** Message: CMS protocol not supported, S/MIME will not work!" is the problem? Can I fix that? If so what must I do ... I've tried this running both xfce and gnome in Fedora 23 and in a VM with Fedora 24b, the result is always the same, I can't collect any mail with balsa ... Same error message. Any thoughts appreciated, Bob -- Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA http://www.qrz.com/db/W2BOD box10 FEDORA-23/64bit LINUX XFCE POP3 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
balsa is unthemed
The balsa email program draws unthemed on my system after upgrading to F20. Actually, the adwaita theme works, but none of the other themes do. I get no complaints from Gtk in .xsession-errors or journalctl when changing themes. Other programs are OK. Does anyone else see this or know what it is? How to debug it? -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
balsa users: seeing wrong icons in balsa main window?
Are other balsa users seeing wrong or missing icons in the balsa main window toolbar or message status columns? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=660732 -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
balsa users: failing to fetch mail unless NetworkManager is running?
Are any balsa users unable to fetch new mail if NetworkManager is not running? I needed to rebuild balsa --without-nm in order to get it to work here, where NetworkManager is not used. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=660735 -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
balsa users: balsa vanishes during use?
Do other balsa users find balsa vanishing during use at unpredictable times? I had to rebuild balsa --without-threads to make it stable in F12, and (as I just got it working at all again) I've done the same on F14. If it happens to others, I'll submit a bug. -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: balsa users: balsa vanishes during use?
On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 13:20:29 -0500 Tony Nelson tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote: Do other balsa users find balsa vanishing during use at unpredictable times? I had to rebuild balsa --without-threads to make it stable in F12, and (as I just got it working at all again) I've done the same on F14. If it happens to others, I'll submit a bug. No but the version of claws in FC14 is buggy as whenever the connection is lost and it fails to reconnect. It may be worth running your live balsa under valgrind if you can reproduce the problem and can cope with it being a bit slower running. That may give useful diagnostics on things like memory scribbles - which are the first guess mess up for threaded apps. Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: balsa users: seeing wrong icons in balsa main window?
On 10-12-07 13:15:20, Tony Nelson wrote: Are other balsa users seeing wrong or missing icons in the balsa main window toolbar or message status columns? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=660732 The bug is fixed by balsa-2.4.9-1.fc14 which is now in updates-testing (but wasn't when I filed the bug). -- TonyN.:' mailto:tonynel...@georgeanelson.com ' http://www.georgeanelson.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
