Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hello, The cobertura plugin has become functional in recent weeks and does a > good job of this. how can I install this plugin? I found it is hosted here: http://maven-plugins.sourceforge.net/maven-cobertura-plugin/index.html and would like to understand how to use it. which files should I modify ? any pointers is very appreciated. thanks, valerio Thanks for the comments. > > Cheers, > Brett > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- To Iterate is Human, to Recurse, Divine James O. Coplien, Bell Labs
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hi Alexander, Regards creation of a project tree with empty directories, I am assuming you are using an archetype to create a project structure. The way I get around it - I usually include an empty 'empty.txt' in my archetype resources as placeholders to ensure that the empty directories are created. Once you start with development these can be removed or ignored by builds. I know not a very sophesticated way but works :-) HTH, Rahul - Original Message - From: "Alexander Hars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Maven Users List" Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? In my opinion, Maven2 is great and has clear immediate benefits - even if it can not do everything that may be needed for everyone. However, there are many small problems. I have found that whatever I start in Maven that is not 100% standard, I run into problems that cost me hours. Basic things often don't work as expected, and some simple things are not supported at all (sorry, I don't want to be negative, and I really like Maven, but this is simply my experience with Maven so far). For example, - if you want to use Maven to create a project tree, your tree can not include empty directories. But at the start of the project, most project trees have some empty directories. Why isn't it possible in Maven? - it is not possible to use the assembly plugin to simply copy files into some target directory structure that is not version dependent. - I tried running the javadoc plugin. My package-info.java files were ignored. So I was not able to use Maven there. - filters only work on resources and source files. Why can't I specify that they work on any directory? - I need to customize the build life-cycle/artifact types, because some of my projects are not standard. This looks quite complicated and needs to be simplified. - It is not clear which POM properties you can use where. For example, the POM has a description element and I would expect that I could include that easily in my generated web site. But I have not found a way to incorporate it into a .apt page. In addition, the description is used for generating the jar manifest - but the jar plugin will crash when linefeeds are included in the description element. That should not be the case. These are just a few of my really little problems. And maybe there are ways in the mean time to solve some of them. But each of these problems takes time and unfortunately there is a significant lack in documentation. I find myself browsing the source code and JIRA much too often. Overall the question whether Maven is production ready is difficult to answer. Maven brings you a lot important concepts for improving the build process; it pays off to get started working with it. But I would switch larger teams and projects over to Maven only after going through a gradual learning process. In my opinion, any team would benefit from having someone get acquainted with Maven. That person would gradually infuse the team with Maven concepts. E.g. set up a repository, standardize the directory structure, standardize pieces of the build process. Then, when the person is sure that Maven supports everything that is necessary, the whole project can switch over. For some projects, Maven is ready now, for others it may take a little more time. But eventually Maven will be the way to go. -Alexander Nitko2 wrote: The issue doesn't need to be a blocker to slow down someone. The problem is in a number of issues. And from user point it isn't important is it a core or plugin issue. I tried to move from maven 1 to maven 2. I started from the scratch and whatever I touch I found either a bug or lack of complete documentation or some strange design-programming decisions. So for me it was a kind of slalom between non-blocker issues. At first I tried to compensate with ant scripts, but now I imported maven into eclipse and use code as documentation. Of course I tried to run maven inside eclipse with embedder, but I just bumped to another problem. Anyway things started moving for me when I imported maven code into eclipse so I can see what plugins are doing, and I can change them if I found some behaviour buggy or illogical (at least illogical to me). I just done a search in JIRA and it showed(all statuses) 127 bugs, 37 improvements for 2.x versions. Many of those bugs are manifested in different ways. So, I use maven 2 because I really like the concept, but it isn't production ready, or at least it wasn't when I started using it(a month before 2.0). That's my opinion. Brett Porter wrote: I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. I feel this is entirely about the plugins. Ther
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Thanks to everyone for your feedback. This is giving a good general idea of where Maven needs to improve. It has also highlighted my point - what people consider production ready varies wildly - from needing certain reports working to just needing jars but built in a specific way, to needing better webstart support. Please, for the specifics included here, pu them in JIRA if they aren't already. They are likely to be lost in this thread. Som specific things I wanted to pick up on from Daniel's email: On 12/22/05, Daniel Kulp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) If your project is heavily JDK 1.5 based, Maven 2 is not production > ready. This is definitely an area for improvement. Thanks. Please be aware in some instances we are limited by the tools we use though - for example I believe Checkstyle 4.0 was only just released with JDK 5 support, and I think we already have that integrated into the SVN version of the plugin. > 4) Documentation - the online documentation sucks. The plugin config > stuff is all out of date.I thought maven was supposed to make > releasing that stuff easier and quicker via the site targets, but the > maven people cannot seem to do it. (Example: the online docs still don't > mention the fork stuff in surefire) I think "sucks" is a bit unfair :) It is still too basic, most likely. We've talked about this a lot before and gone to great lengths to improve it, but there is still a long road ahead. It seems to be something open source projects are not good at, and we'd really like to be better. Its not really a function of the tools you use, but the ability to write someone helpful and commit the appropriate amount of time to it. With the exception of surefire where the site publish step seems to have been missed, the docs for plugins should be up to date (although still lacking in areas). I do want to thank those that have stepped up to help in this area recently, and we will always welcome contributions of additions or comments on how to improve it. One area everyone can help is by answering list traffic. This is tending to take up a lot of time recently and while we are building up some FAQs from it, it does take away time from other things (and this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy). > 5) Continuous builds - lack of support in cruisecontrol is a major > blocker. Continuum is nowhere close to cruisecontrol yet, but it's > getting better. (and continuum's docs are even worse than maven's) I believe some people have it working in cruisecontrol. We should spend some time evangelising other tools to integrate m2, though there is a limit to which we can do that. > 6) Lack of other plugins like Emma for coverage metrics. (clover is > commercial) The cobertura plugin has become functional in recent weeks and does a good job of this. Thanks for the comments. Cheers, Brett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
In my opinion, Maven2 is great and has clear immediate benefits - even if it can not do everything that may be needed for everyone. However, there are many small problems. I have found that whatever I start in Maven that is not 100% standard, I run into problems that cost me hours. Basic things often don't work as expected, and some simple things are not supported at all (sorry, I don't want to be negative, and I really like Maven, but this is simply my experience with Maven so far). For example, - if you want to use Maven to create a project tree, your tree can not include empty directories. But at the start of the project, most project trees have some empty directories. Why isn't it possible in Maven? - it is not possible to use the assembly plugin to simply copy files into some target directory structure that is not version dependent. - I tried running the javadoc plugin. My package-info.java files were ignored. So I was not able to use Maven there. - filters only work on resources and source files. Why can't I specify that they work on any directory? - I need to customize the build life-cycle/artifact types, because some of my projects are not standard. This looks quite complicated and needs to be simplified. - It is not clear which POM properties you can use where. For example, the POM has a description element and I would expect that I could include that easily in my generated web site. But I have not found a way to incorporate it into a .apt page. In addition, the description is used for generating the jar manifest - but the jar plugin will crash when linefeeds are included in the description element. That should not be the case. These are just a few of my really little problems. And maybe there are ways in the mean time to solve some of them. But each of these problems takes time and unfortunately there is a significant lack in documentation. I find myself browsing the source code and JIRA much too often. Overall the question whether Maven is production ready is difficult to answer. Maven brings you a lot important concepts for improving the build process; it pays off to get started working with it. But I would switch larger teams and projects over to Maven only after going through a gradual learning process. In my opinion, any team would benefit from having someone get acquainted with Maven. That person would gradually infuse the team with Maven concepts. E.g. set up a repository, standardize the directory structure, standardize pieces of the build process. Then, when the person is sure that Maven supports everything that is necessary, the whole project can switch over. For some projects, Maven is ready now, for others it may take a little more time. But eventually Maven will be the way to go. -Alexander Nitko2 wrote: The issue doesn't need to be a blocker to slow down someone. The problem is in a number of issues. And from user point it isn't important is it a core or plugin issue. I tried to move from maven 1 to maven 2. I started from the scratch and whatever I touch I found either a bug or lack of complete documentation or some strange design-programming decisions. So for me it was a kind of slalom between non-blocker issues. At first I tried to compensate with ant scripts, but now I imported maven into eclipse and use code as documentation. Of course I tried to run maven inside eclipse with embedder, but I just bumped to another problem. Anyway things started moving for me when I imported maven code into eclipse so I can see what plugins are doing, and I can change them if I found some behaviour buggy or illogical (at least illogical to me). I just done a search in JIRA and it showed(all statuses) 127 bugs, 37 improvements for 2.x versions. Many of those bugs are manifested in different ways. So, I use maven 2 because I really like the concept, but it isn't production ready, or at least it wasn't when I started using it(a month before 2.0). That's my opinion. Brett Porter wrote: I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site generation, which is being worked on right now. I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - none of which are under discussion here). Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot about, and i
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I'll add some clarification. None of my issues are around site generation--I was going to leave that until after I've gotten everything to build. I'm also not (yet) dealing with the war issues I've seen people complaining about. Right now I'm just building jars and some other items. As I said, most of the issues I'm having are with plugins. There are a couple of core issues I've run into. The first I logged as MNG-1499 (which is supposedly fixed in 2.0.1, however I've seen some problems with the patch I put together for that, but haven't had the time to flesh it out and log another issue). The second problem I've seen is that when setting a plugin configuration property in both the parent pom and the project pom it uses the parent value instead of having the project value override the value set in the parent. I wanted to clarify that I'm not just doing something wrong before logging an issue, but no one responded to my email. I also logged MNG-1646, and this is also fixed in 2.0.1 (though I haven't had time to verify this). The other issues I've had are with plugins (javadoc and surefire primarily). But Maven 2 is nothing without plugins, so I really can't say Maven 2 is production ready until all the plugins I need are also production ready. Thinking that Maven 2 is ready because there aren't blocker issues is problematic. First of all, you can't change the priority of an issue to blocker once it's been written, so you never know who is blocked by any issue (I tend to focus more on the text of an issue when I write one, and often forget to set the priority on the way in). Secondly, most of the issues I'm dealing with have some kind of workaround and/or live-with-it aspect that doesn't truly block me from continuing to migrate my project to M2. However, I don't like having pom.xml files that are stacked with workarounds, and I won't move our production process to M2 until these things are cleared up. If that fits the definition of "blocker", then I would imagine there are more issues already logged that should be changed to blocker. I also have some more plugins to write for our internal process, and writing plugins has turned out to be much more difficult that I had hoped. This is primarily due to the lack of documentation. There are docs to get started, but no API reference docs to help me figure out how to do what I need to do. All I can do is look at the source code to existing plugins (which code isn't documented either) and try to figure out what it's doing. This takes much longer than it should. It's even worse when you find out the "recommended" way of doing something isn't the way the plugin you looked at was doing it. My biggest problem now is that the time I had allocated to migrate to Maven 2 (November and December) is pretty much gone, so I really won't be able to do much more migration, and I especially won't have the time to fully research the problems I'm facing and provide patches. I'm excited for Maven 2. It's overcome many of the shortcomings faced by Maven 1. It's not all there yet, but it's close and it's moving along. I hope I'll be able to squeeze out enough time to get everything moved over. ..David.. -Original Message- From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 3:39 PM To: Maven Users List Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site generation, which is being worked on right now. I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - none of which are under discussion here). Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on improving that experience. Cheers, Brett On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been > working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Done and some of my coworkers are going to vote too. Thank for the quick answer! On 12/21/05, Fabrizio Giustina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 12/21/05, Alexandre Poitras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Also some notes in the Eclipse guide about using Wtp since it has > > reached 1.0 milestone. > > I still have trouble to use maven 2 to handle web libraries in wtp but > > maybe I am doing something wrong. > > wtp 1.0 is buggy, external libraries don't work anymore so you have to > stay with r7 till the bug is resolved. > See https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=116783 for details, > the issue is scheduled for 1.0.1. Please add a vote to the issue in > bugzilla to raise the priority for eclipse developers! > > fabrizio > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Alexandre Poitras Québec, Canada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
_ From: ir. ing. Jan Dockx [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:28 AM To: Maven Users List Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? 3) Inheritance: the strange self-referencing issue that the parent POM is, aside from being a POM to inherit from, also the POM of the pom-project, is wildly confusing. A pom-project should have a POM with meta-information, and a different POM to inherit from in src/main/pom or something. The latter is the project content, and not the meta-information. This might be total off the mark (being a maven newbie) but we used xml "inheritance" in a previous project I worked on and we were very careful to differentiate containment ( tag) from inheritance ( tag). It seems like the top-level pom is a container rather than an ancestor, so I was surprised to read somewhere that the tag is actually supposed to represent inheritance. - Attention: Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. The information contained in this message and or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies.
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
_ From: ir. ing. Jan Dockx [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:28 AM To: Maven Users List Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? Ok, here goes 1) Pom needs to be simplified, made better, more understandable, a real meta-model of the project, with orthogonal information, . Users should have a mental model of the POM, and not of plugins and executions and what not. As a new maven user, one thing that is confusing about the pom is that some elements are used as lookup keys to identify some other already existing element in the pom, and other elements are used as normal setters. I think it would be very useful if there was some naming convention that would make if very plain which are which. For example, elements used keys could be in , or have a -key suffix () or some other usability-enhancing naming convention. - Attention: Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. The information contained in this message and or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies.
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I've only been using Maven 2 for about a week so I'm probably not the best person to answer the question, but from my experience: 1) If your project is heavily JDK 1.5 based, Maven 2 is not production ready. It's mostly because several of the plugins have not been updated to the more recent versions of the libs that support JDK 1.5. Those include Checkstyle, PMD, etc... Without those types of maintainability checks/reports, I cannot promote it's use in a production environment. 2) Likewise, it's nearly impossible to get the compile plugin to have proper -Xlint:x,y,z arguments. I've "hacked" it via: -Xlint:unchecked,deprecation,fallthrough,finally But if we didn't want the deprecation stuff, I'm not sure how it would work. 3) There is a problem with maven and OS X JDK 1.5 in that it cannot compile anything unless the compiler is forked. Forking the compiler isn't a big deal, but I don't think it's something we should have had to do. 4) Documentation - the online documentation sucks. The plugin config stuff is all out of date.I thought maven was supposed to make releasing that stuff easier and quicker via the site targets, but the maven people cannot seem to do it. (Example: the online docs still don't mention the fork stuff in surefire) Another example: we have some thirdparty things that cannot be uploaded to ibiblio. There are good docs for how to use an internal repository, but not really how to get third party things into it. There has to be something easier than hand-writing the pom file and hand running sha1sum on all the files. Another example, in the plugin config docs you may see something like: Parameter: systemProperties type: Properties Parameter: pluginArtifacts type: List I haven't seen any docs on how to enter those types into the pom/xml file. It's mostly been trial and error. Ant has VERY good docs about it's basic types. 5) Continuous builds - lack of support in cruisecontrol is a major blocker. Continuum is nowhere close to cruisecontrol yet, but it's getting better. (and continuum's docs are even worse than maven's) 6) Lack of other plugins like Emma for coverage metrics. (clover is commercial) Don't get me wrong, Maven 2 definitely has a lot going for it, but there are still some very rough edges that create a bit of a learning curve for many "advanced" things. If JDK 1.5 support was better and the docs were better, it would be really close to production ready.There are bugs that you'll run into, but so does everything. Thanks! -- J. Daniel Kulp Principal Engineer IONA P: 781-902-8727 C: 508-380-7194 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tuesday 20 December 2005 17:38, Brett Porter wrote: > I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. > > If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every > chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. > > I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of > plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), > that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to > upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that > are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site > generation, which is being worked on right now. > > I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't > recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in > JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - > none of which are under discussion here). > > Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts > within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot > about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. > > Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says > it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on > improving that experience. > > Cheers, > Brett > > On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been > > working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At > > this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime > > time. It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the > > core and in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira > > issues, so hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too > > much longer. I doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm > > not sure what the timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough > > time for me to finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I > > encountered along the way). > > > > ..David.. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM > > To: Maven Users List > > Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vinc
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
On 12/21/05, Alexandre Poitras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Also some notes in the Eclipse guide about using Wtp since it has > reached 1.0 milestone. > I still have trouble to use maven 2 to handle web libraries in wtp but > maybe I am doing something wrong. wtp 1.0 is buggy, external libraries don't work anymore so you have to stay with r7 till the bug is resolved. See https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=116783 for details, the issue is scheduled for 1.0.1. Please add a vote to the issue in bugzilla to raise the priority for eclipse developers! fabrizio - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
en though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a fully > >>working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from > >>scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant I'm > >>not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is where > >>most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 for > >>their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have the > >>2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm > >>doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works). > >> > >>That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see what's > >>the gap with what you want to achieve in your build. > >> > >>All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I wouldn't > >>go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying. > >> > >>Thanks > >>-Vincent > >> > >> > >>>-Original Message- > >>>From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39 > >>>To: Maven Users List > >>>Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? > >>> > >>>I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. > >>> > >>>If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every > >>>chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. > >>> > >>>I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of > >>>plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), > >>>that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to > >>>upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that > >>>are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site > >>>generation, which is being worked on right now. > >>> > >>>I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't > >>>recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in > >>>JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - > >>>none of which are under discussion here). > >>> > >>>Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts > >>>within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot > >>>about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. > >>> > >>>Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says > >>>it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on > >>>improving that experience. > >>> > >>>Cheers, > >>>Brett > >>> > >>>On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>>>I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been > >>>>working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At > >>>>this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime time. > >>>>It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core and > >>>>in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira issues, so > >>>>hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much longer. I > >>>>doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what the > >>>>timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to > >>>>finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered along > >>>>the way). > >>>> > >>>>..David.. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-Original Message- > >>>>From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM > >>>>To: Maven Users List > >>>>Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? > >>>> > >>>>Hi Everyone, > >>>> > >>>>Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that > >>>>"maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). > >>>> > >>>>- When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? > >>>>- Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? > >>>> > >>>>I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. > >>>> > >>>>Regards, > >>>> > >>>>Rik Bosman > >>>> > >>>>- > >>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>- > >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >>- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Alexandre Poitras Québec, Canada - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
First and foremost, m2 is a great produkt. It is also a lot better then m1. I am using m2 on one project with a lot of success. Another m1 project I 'll upgrade soon. This second project uses maven.xml & jnlp plugin to: - set a flag wheter to buildForProduction using webstart => I 'll have to check profiles for that I believe - Include the webstart result (signed jars + jnlp) in my war. These signed jars dependencies sound like impossible to depend on. They aren't compile or runtime scoped (/WEB-INF/lib), more like "package" scoped (/jnlp). => Maybe I 'll write a plugin to hack this by just copying them. What's missing I think? 1) "Guide to transforming a maven.xml goal into a plugin" It doesn't exist. 2) "Guide to creating a multi-module build" http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-multi-module.html It's empty and I 've been checking that every week. 3) subsections in http://maven.apache.org/guides/index.html for example: core, site (apt + site + modello + ...), dependencies (sun + dependencies), ... Human minds can't read a list longer then 7 or 9 elements. 4) multiproject site (as said before) Very glad to hear you're working on it :) 5) idea:idea: expect some patches next week :) 6) webstart in war support On the other topics: I do think the pom 4.0.0 structure is very nice, it's as simple as possible and understandable. The only problem is the mere size of the pom.xml file: Would it be possible to use XIncludes without breaking m2 or continuum? I 'd make pom-dependencies.xml and pom-developers.xml etc. PS: Grats on continuum with a m2 project: we 've set it up in under 3 hours (unlike cruisecontrol). -- With kind regards, Geoffrey De Smet Brett Porter wrote: I think I was largely misunderstood. I didn't say there aren't any problems, but I thought the claim that its not production ready needed a little clarification. The lack of forking was a big mess. It was supposed to be done within a matter of days after the release, but for a number of reasons this wasn't finished until recently. But it is there now - perhaps there are still issues to work through, but that's on the way at least. For everything else you talk about - how much did Maven 1 actually do for you, and how much did you write in a Jelly script leveraging Ant? What's stopping you writing Maven 2 plugins to do that now? What I'm really trying to do here is investigate what is actually blocking people. The marking of importance in JIRA, and previously the amount of voting was pretty useless. I think these need to be improved so we can focus because there are such a large number of things to deal with. This is much more productive than general statements about whether the release is "production ready", because production is different for everyone, and obviously we wouldn't have released it if we didn't think it was ready for production use. Certainly not perfect, but usable nonetheless. Even you voted for the release, Vincent :) - Brett On 12/21/05, Vincent Massol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Brett, I do agree it's mostly about the plugins. That said I started the Cargo migration several months ago and it's still not finished (even though it's progressing). The main parts are done but they are still rough edges. The surefire forking was one that was "solved" last week (still not working for me but I don't know why - I need to investigate more). The M2 embedder which I use for functional tests of the Cargo m2 plugin is still not working for me (some issues are still open), last time I tried the checkstyle plugin (last week) it was still not able to validate a custom config file (I don't remember why). Here's one more: the assembly plugin cannot be called as part of the main lifecycle and thus I cannot get a jarjar created automatically. Thus even though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a fully working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant I'm not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is where most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 for their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have the 2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works). That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see what's the gap with what you want to achieve in your build. All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I wouldn't go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying. Thanks -Vincent -Original Message- From: Brett Port
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
against migrating actually as this is > >> where > >> most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 > >> for > >> their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to > >> have the > >> 2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what > >> I'm > >> doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works). > >> > >> That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see > >> what's > >> the gap with what you want to achieve in your build. > >> > >> All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I > >> wouldn't > >> go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying. > >> > >> Thanks > >> -Vincent > >> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39 > >>> To: Maven Users List > >>> Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? > >>> > >>> I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. > >>> > >>> If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every > >>> chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. > >>> > >>> I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of > >>> plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), > >>> that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to > >>> upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins > >>> that > >>> are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site > >>> generation, which is being worked on right now. > >>> > >>> I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't > >>> recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in > >>> JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - > >>> none of which are under discussion here). > >>> > >>> Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts > >>> within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot > >>> about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. > >>> > >>> Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says > >>> it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on > >>> improving that experience. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Brett > >>> > >>> On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>> I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have > >>>> been > >>>> working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At > >>>> this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime > >>>> time. > >>>> It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core > >>>> and > >>>> in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira > >>>> issues, so > >>>> hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much > >>>> longer. I > >>>> doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what > >>>> the > >>>> timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to > >>>> finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered > >>>> along > >>>> the way). > >>>> > >>>> ..David.. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -Original Message- > >>>> From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM > >>>> To: Maven Users List > >>>> Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? > >>>> > >>>> Hi Everyone, > >>>> > >>>> Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there > >>>> that > >>>> "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). > >>>> > >>>> - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? > >>>> - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? > >>>> > >>>> I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Rik Bosman > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> - > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > > Jan Dockx > > PeopleWare NV - Head Office > Cdt.Weynsstraat 85 > B-2660 Hoboken > Tel: +32 3 448.33.38 > Fax: +32 3 448.32.66 > > PeopleWare NV - Branch Office Geel > Kleinhoefstraat 5 > B-2440 Geel > Tel: +32 14 57.00.90 > Fax: +32 14 58.13.25 > > http://www.peopleware.be/ > http://www.mobileware.be/ > > > -- Alexandre Poitras Québec, Canada
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Ok, here goes
1) Pom needs to be simplified, made better, more understandable, a real meta-model of the project, with orthogonal information, … Users should have a mental model of the POM, and not of plugins and executions and what not.
2) Clear up the use (top-feature!) of ${} thingies. Currently, these are ant/velocity-style "variables" or "properties", and nobody knows which exist and which don't. In practice, they certainly don't mimic the POM. In essence, this should be replaced with an EL like Commons EL or OGNL, or maybe even more simple, by XPATH.
3) Inheritance: the strange self-referencing issue that the parent POM is, aside from being a POM to inherit from, also the POM of the pom-project, is wildly confusing. A pom-project should have a POM with meta-information, and a different POM to inherit from in src/main/pom or something. The latter is the project content, and not the meta-information.
4) More to come …
On the other hand, maven (2) is so good in concept, that once the necessary (parent) setup is done for your project/group/company, you never have to look at it again. So, the confusion is limited.
On 21 Dec 2005, at 11:10, Brett Porter wrote:
I think I was largely misunderstood. I didn't say there aren't any
problems, but I thought the claim that its not production ready needed
a little clarification.
The lack of forking was a big mess. It was supposed to be done within
a matter of days after the release, but for a number of reasons this
wasn't finished until recently. But it is there now - perhaps there
are still issues to work through, but that's on the way at least.
For everything else you talk about - how much did Maven 1 actually do
for you, and how much did you write in a Jelly script leveraging Ant?
What's stopping you writing Maven 2 plugins to do that now?
What I'm really trying to do here is investigate what is actually
blocking people. The marking of importance in JIRA, and previously the
amount of voting was pretty useless. I think these need to be improved
so we can focus because there are such a large number of things to
deal with.
This is much more productive than general statements about whether the
release is "production ready", because production is different for
everyone, and obviously we wouldn't have released it if we didn't
think it was ready for production use. Certainly not perfect, but
usable nonetheless. Even you voted for the release, Vincent :)
- Brett
On 12/21/05, Vincent Massol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I do agree it's mostly about the plugins.
That said I started the Cargo migration several months ago and it's still
not finished (even though it's progressing). The main parts are done but
they are still rough edges. The surefire forking was one that was "solved"
last week (still not working for me but I don't know why - I need to
investigate more). The M2 embedder which I use for functional tests of the
Cargo m2 plugin is still not working for me (some issues are still open),
last time I tried the checkstyle plugin (last week) it was still not able to
validate a custom config file (I don't remember why). Here's one more: the
assembly plugin cannot be called as part of the main lifecycle and thus I
cannot get a jarjar created automatically.
Thus even though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a fully
working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from
scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant I'm
not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is where
most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 for
their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have the
2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm
doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works).
That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see what's
the gap with what you want to achieve in your build.
All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I wouldn't
go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying.
Thanks
-Vincent
-Original Message-
From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39
To: Maven Users List
Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this.
If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every
chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you.
I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of
plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project),
that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to
upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that
are not yet finished. I
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
> -Original Message- > From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: mercredi 21 décembre 2005 11:11 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > I think I was largely misunderstood. I didn't say there aren't any > problems, but I thought the claim that its not production ready needed > a little clarification. > > The lack of forking was a big mess. It was supposed to be done within > a matter of days after the release, but for a number of reasons this > wasn't finished until recently. But it is there now - perhaps there > are still issues to work through, but that's on the way at least. There's still a blocker on the surefire plugin (see http://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MSUREFIRE-20). > For everything else you talk about - how much did Maven 1 actually do > for you, and how much did you write in a Jelly script leveraging Ant? > What's stopping you writing Maven 2 plugins to do that now? > > What I'm really trying to do here is investigate what is actually > blocking people. The marking of importance in JIRA, and previously the > amount of voting was pretty useless. I think these need to be improved > so we can focus because there are such a large number of things to > deal with. > > This is much more productive than general statements about whether the > release is "production ready", because production is different for > everyone, I agree. > and obviously we wouldn't have released it if we didn't > think it was ready for production use. Certainly not perfect, but > usable nonetheless. Even you voted for the release, Vincent :) I don't agree here. It's much better not to repeat the Maven 1 experience where we stayed at 0.9.x for several years! It doesn't mean Maven 2.0 is production ready (whatever this means). It simply means the internal development team thinks it's good enough to be used (and I do agree fully with this statement). It's the users in the field who decide if it's production-ready, not the development team IMO :-) I'm the first to recommend people to switch to m2. But I'd like them to do so knowing that they'll need to interact a lot with the development team, ask lots of questions, possibly look at the code from time to time. They'll benefit from the move but they must be prepared to spend some time too. Thanks -Vincent > On 12/21/05, Vincent Massol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Brett, > > > > I do agree it's mostly about the plugins. > > > > That said I started the Cargo migration several months ago and it's > still > > not finished (even though it's progressing). The main parts are done but > > they are still rough edges. The surefire forking was one that was > "solved" > > last week (still not working for me but I don't know why - I need to > > investigate more). The M2 embedder which I use for functional tests of > the > > Cargo m2 plugin is still not working for me (some issues are still > open), > > last time I tried the checkstyle plugin (last week) it was still not > able to > > validate a custom config file (I don't remember why). Here's one more: > the > > assembly plugin cannot be called as part of the main lifecycle and thus > I > > cannot get a jarjar created automatically. > > > > Thus even though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a > fully > > working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from > > scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant > I'm > > not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is > where > > most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 > for > > their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have > the > > 2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm > > doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works). > > > > That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see > what's > > the gap with what you want to achieve in your build. > > > > All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I > wouldn't > > go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying. > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39 > > > To: Maven Users List > > > Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? an
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I think I was largely misunderstood. I didn't say there aren't any problems, but I thought the claim that its not production ready needed a little clarification. The lack of forking was a big mess. It was supposed to be done within a matter of days after the release, but for a number of reasons this wasn't finished until recently. But it is there now - perhaps there are still issues to work through, but that's on the way at least. For everything else you talk about - how much did Maven 1 actually do for you, and how much did you write in a Jelly script leveraging Ant? What's stopping you writing Maven 2 plugins to do that now? What I'm really trying to do here is investigate what is actually blocking people. The marking of importance in JIRA, and previously the amount of voting was pretty useless. I think these need to be improved so we can focus because there are such a large number of things to deal with. This is much more productive than general statements about whether the release is "production ready", because production is different for everyone, and obviously we wouldn't have released it if we didn't think it was ready for production use. Certainly not perfect, but usable nonetheless. Even you voted for the release, Vincent :) - Brett On 12/21/05, Vincent Massol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Brett, > > I do agree it's mostly about the plugins. > > That said I started the Cargo migration several months ago and it's still > not finished (even though it's progressing). The main parts are done but > they are still rough edges. The surefire forking was one that was "solved" > last week (still not working for me but I don't know why - I need to > investigate more). The M2 embedder which I use for functional tests of the > Cargo m2 plugin is still not working for me (some issues are still open), > last time I tried the checkstyle plugin (last week) it was still not able to > validate a custom config file (I don't remember why). Here's one more: the > assembly plugin cannot be called as part of the main lifecycle and thus I > cannot get a jarjar created automatically. > > Thus even though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a fully > working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from > scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant I'm > not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is where > most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 for > their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have the > 2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm > doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works). > > That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see what's > the gap with what you want to achieve in your build. > > All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I wouldn't > go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying. > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > -Original Message- > > From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39 > > To: Maven Users List > > Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > > > I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. > > > > If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every > > chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. > > > > I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of > > plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), > > that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to > > upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that > > are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site > > generation, which is being worked on right now. > > > > I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't > > recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in > > JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - > > none of which are under discussion here). > > > > Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts > > within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot > > about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. > > > > Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says > > it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on > > improving that experience. > > > > Cheers, > > Brett > >
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hi Brett, personally I agree with David's statement. I also tried to convert our complex M102 build to M2, but I stopped the effort for now until my blockers are fixed. Brett Porter wrote on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 11:39 PM: > I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. > [snip] > > I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't > recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in > JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - > none of which are under discussion here). Well, it depends on your personal view of a bug. My show-stoppers are MNG-1577 and MNG-1571 and the non-forking surefire. As long as I cannot define which exact version of a dependent artifact is used (and included in wars or ears) without explicitly specifying them on each pom again and again, I cannot use M2. Also anything that prevents me from building the exactly same artifact on different machines is not be acceptable from a QA PoV (related to MNG-1609). > Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts > within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot > about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. This gets for me on top. > Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says > it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on > improving that experience. Done so. I really think M2 has a bright future and I enjoy it, but currently for our company it is also not ready for prime time. - Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hi Brett, I do agree it's mostly about the plugins. That said I started the Cargo migration several months ago and it's still not finished (even though it's progressing). The main parts are done but they are still rough edges. The surefire forking was one that was "solved" last week (still not working for me but I don't know why - I need to investigate more). The M2 embedder which I use for functional tests of the Cargo m2 plugin is still not working for me (some issues are still open), last time I tried the checkstyle plugin (last week) it was still not able to validate a custom config file (I don't remember why). Here's one more: the assembly plugin cannot be called as part of the main lifecycle and thus I cannot get a jarjar created automatically. Thus even though lots of things are working it's still hard to have a fully working m2 build as good as your m1 equivalent. If you're starting from scratch then it's obviously not a big issue. If you're coming from Ant I'm not sure (and I would recommend against migrating actually as this is where most people get burned - I would recommend those Ant people to use m2 for their next project though) and if you're coming from m1 you need to have the 2 in parallel till you're satisfy with your m2 build (which is what I'm doing for Cargo - A bit of pain to maintain 2 but it works). That's why I'm still recommending caution and to evaluate m2 and see what's the gap with what you want to achieve in your build. All that said don't get me wrong. Maven 2 works and it is great (I wouldn't go back to m1 now). But I do understand what David Jackman is saying. Thanks -Vincent > -Original Message- > From: Brett Porter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 23:39 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: Re: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. > > If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every > chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. > > I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of > plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), > that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to > upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that > are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site > generation, which is being worked on right now. > > I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't > recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in > JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - > none of which are under discussion here). > > Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts > within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot > about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. > > Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says > it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on > improving that experience. > > Cheers, > Brett > > On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been > > working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At > > this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime time. > > It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core and > > in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira issues, so > > hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much longer. I > > doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what the > > timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to > > finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered along > > the way). > > > > ..David.. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM > > To: Maven Users List > > Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that > > "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). > > > > - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? > > - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? > > > > I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rik Bosman > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
The issue doesn't need to be a blocker to slow down someone. The problem is in a number of issues. And from user point it isn't important is it a core or plugin issue. I tried to move from maven 1 to maven 2. I started from the scratch and whatever I touch I found either a bug or lack of complete documentation or some strange design-programming decisions. So for me it was a kind of slalom between non-blocker issues. At first I tried to compensate with ant scripts, but now I imported maven into eclipse and use code as documentation. Of course I tried to run maven inside eclipse with embedder, but I just bumped to another problem. Anyway things started moving for me when I imported maven code into eclipse so I can see what plugins are doing, and I can change them if I found some behaviour buggy or illogical (at least illogical to me). I just done a search in JIRA and it showed(all statuses) 127 bugs, 37 improvements for 2.x versions. Many of those bugs are manifested in different ways. So, I use maven 2 because I really like the concept, but it isn't production ready, or at least it wasn't when I started using it(a month before 2.0). That's my opinion. Brett Porter wrote: I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site generation, which is being worked on right now. I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - none of which are under discussion here). Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on improving that experience. Cheers, Brett On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime time. It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core and in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira issues, so hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much longer. I doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what the timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered along the way). ..David.. -Original Message- From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM To: Maven Users List Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? Hi Everyone, Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. Regards, Rik Bosman - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Rik Bosman wrote: > Hi Everyone, Hi Rik, > Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that > "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). > > - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? > - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? I began to introduce maven2 just about four weeks ago. Right now we have one webapp project and one multi-module library build with maven and so far I've had no major problems. Migrating to maven2 from no structured build system at all, m2 is a huge gain, especially the explicit management of dependencies helps a lot. The largest part is yet to come, though. We have a lot of J22E stuff to be migrated to maven (coming from a custom ant build system) and I have the vague feeling that there may come up some problems. This migration is on a larger timeframe, though so maybe m2 will stabilize more until then. -dirk -- A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I think some heavy clarifications need to be put on this. If you are moving from Ant, or starting a new project, there is every chance Maven 2 is ready for production use for you. I feel this is entirely about the plugins. There are a bunch of plugins written for Maven 1.x (many outside of the Maven project), that some people have come to depend on that limit the ability to upgrade. To a lesser extent, there are some Maven project plugins that are not yet finished. I think this mostly revolves around the site generation, which is being worked on right now. I'm not sure what core issues are being referred to - but I don't recall seeing anything marked as a blocker for some time (the 6 in JIRA are for the ant tasks, the embedder, and design issues for 2.1 - none of which are under discussion here). Another factor is a large investment in custom Maven 1.x scripts within some organisations. That's not something Maven 2 can do a lot about, and is a trade off for the person upgrading. Hope this helps in clarifying it. It's important that anyone who says it is not yet ready for production states a reason so we can focus on improving that experience. Cheers, Brett On 12/21/05, David Jackman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been > working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At > this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime time. > It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core and > in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira issues, so > hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much longer. I > doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what the > timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to > finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered along > the way). > > ..David.. > > > -Original Message- > From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM > To: Maven Users List > Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > Hi Everyone, > > Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that > "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). > > - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? > - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? > > I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. > > Regards, > > Rik Bosman > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
I didn't attend JavaPolis (sounds like I missed out), but I have been working for a few weeks to move our Maven 1 projects to Maven 2. At this point I would agree that Maven 2 is not quite ready for prime time. It's getting closer, though. I've found problems (both in the core and in plugins) and tried to create patches when I file the jira issues, so hopefully Maven 2 will do what we need it to before too much longer. I doubt it will really be ready before 2.1, though I'm not sure what the timeframe of that release is (hopefully it's enough time for me to finish my migration and file fixes for the problems I encountered along the way). ..David.. -Original Message- From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:15 AM To: Maven Users List Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? Hi Everyone, Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. Regards, Rik Bosman - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hi, I also went to that presentation. I don't recall him saying that (I might be wrong), but he did say to beware of some plugins that are still in beta, which might mean that if you come from maven 1, you don't have all functionality of maven 1, for example: - The site plugin makes one site of a project and its (direct & indirect) modules - Idea plugin includes the parent pom (if no patches are in for this one by next week, I 'll take a look at it :) - ... Like he said, it's a good idea to start writing your pom.xml and then evaluate what special things you are doing in your current build that maven2 can't do (yet). Then choose to do that special things by: - waiting till maven2 does them - use the maven antrun plugin and script them yourself - write custom plugins for it Vincent did make one mistake on an overall very good presentation. He answered it wasn't possible to produce multiple jars from one project. According to the documentation it is: http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-using-one-source-directory.html It's just a really bad idea. -- With kind regards, Geoffrey De Smet Rik Bosman wrote: Hi Everyone, Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. Regards, Rik Bosman - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [m2] production ready? any experience?
Hi Rik, I don't think I said it that way... :-) Anyway we have the video recording so we'll know when they're up! Thanks -Vincent > -Original Message- > From: Rik Bosman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: mardi 20 décembre 2005 09:15 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: [m2] production ready? any experience? > > Hi Everyone, > > Some colleages of mine visited javapolis. Vincent Massol told there that > "maven2 is not production ready" (if I rephrase it correctly). > > - When will it be production ready? 2.02? 2.1? > - Are there any stories from developers using maven2 in production? > > I'm a maven2 fan, and I hope to adopt it for our company soon. > > Regards, > > Rik Bosman - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
