Re: Most stable OS
At 5:21 PM -0700 7/28/2001, Alex Allee wrote: 2) One thing I'll never understand is why the Macintosh, with it's ease of use, has always had error codes that are so user unfriendly. Even DOS has no error message as unfriendly and Macintosh Error codes. Windows 95 comes close, however. That's because DOS has no error codes, it just crashed and required a reboot. :) MS-DOS rarely crashed when I used it. The only OS I've used that crashed less that MS-DOS is TRS-DOS. TRS-DOS never crashed on me. But who wants to use those? -- http://homepage.mac.com/stmoody/ http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html When was the last time you remember the Virus Of The Week attacking a Macintosh? -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Errors on the Mac (was Re: Most stable OS)
At 1:44 AM -0700 7/26/2001, Gregg Eshelman wrote: I've been unlucky enough to see the work of lazy Windows programmers with messages like An error has occured: Error. [OK] Can't remember what program that was. That's nothing. I have a jpg of an error window that CC:Mail for Windows 3.1 gave me one day (at work - I'm not a PC user, but I play one at work). Fatal Error - No Error, Apparently, one of the programs knew that it would be confusing to most Windows users if the program worked flawlessly. And to remain on topic: Does anyone know where I can buy some System 7.1 disks? My recently aquired LCIII has it installed, but it ain't all there. -- http://homepage.mac.com/stmoody/ http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html Handgun crime in Britain has increased more than 40% since the handgun ban of 1997. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Self crashing apps. Re: Most Stable OS
Netscape's favorite tactic is scribbling over itself in memory, at least on Windows. How do I tell if a Mac app crash is due to the app overwriting part of its main executable in RAM? At any rate, especially after 20+ years, _I_ find it amazing that programmers still haven't come up with a 99.999% perfect way of keeping applications from doing this, no matter what OS or platform. :P How hard can it be for the app to look around and see that its current memory location starts at _this_ address and ends at _that_ one, then create a temporary file saying Thou shall NOT write ANYTHING upon thyself.??? I'm sick of seeing NETSCAPE.EXE caused a (pick an error) in NETSCAPE.EXE. Bleagh. I suppose I'd need a debugger loaded to catch Mac apps blowing their own bits out? All systems can do with these bad app-les is to quarrantine them and sweep up the debris. Win NT/2K, OSX, Linux etc can do that. Mac System/OS 9.1 and older and WinMe/9x/3.xx can't. Its still best to reboot after an app crashes, no telling what little nuggets its left behind just waiting to cause some normally stable app to blow up. --- James S Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Part of the problem with Netscape 2.0 to 4.7x is that it was designed to be internally multithreaded, using a Netscape thread manager, rather than a system one*. The root of this came from Mac System 7 and 16-bit Windows. Those systems didn't have thread managers. The result is a monstrously monolithic and huge application, which uses so many resources that it can block the system I/O queues, even on multithreaded, pre-emptive multitasking systems like OS/2 or Win9x (although perhaps not NT). The system has to be rebooted because you can't get back to the Finder/WorkPlace Shell/Explorer to kill it when it hangs. To their credit, this design provided some real benefits on a 68k Mac. I can be downloading something while sending an email or reading a web page, etc. *I think NS 4.x actually uses a system thread manager extension for OS 7.5.5 and earlier. = The earth swarms with inhabitants. Why then should nature, which is fruitful to an excess here, be so very barren in the rest of the planets? Bernard de Fontenelle, 1686 [EMAIL PROTECTED] My ICQ# 16024947 __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Self crashing apps. Re: Most Stable OS
This is one of the advantages of Netscape on the classic Mac OS. Any application creates it's own memory partition and only the most remarkably buggy apps will overwrite another app's partition (maybe something not 32-bit clean?). Netscape and some others go one step further. Once it has a partition, it never releases it back to the system*. If you quit NS and restart it, it will use exactly the same space it previously occupied. I suspect that one reason NS will freeze the system if you restart it after it crashes is that it tries to reclaim that space, but the system sees as a new app trying to overwrite another's partition and it traps the protection violation. I don't necessarily reboot immediately after all apps abend, but I would never try to run some, like NS, without rebooting. *So, if you've allocated 24 MB of your 128 MB to Netscape and then close it, you will not get that memory back for other applications without rebooting. Gregg Eshelman wrote: All systems can do with these bad app-les is to quarrantine them and sweep up the debris. Win NT/2K, OSX, Linux etc can do that. Mac System/OS 9.1 and older and WinMe/9x/3.xx can't. Its still best to reboot after an app crashes, no telling what little nuggets its left behind just waiting to cause some normally stable app to blow up. -- /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email X No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Self crashing apps. Re: Most Stable OS
--- James S Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is one of the advantages of Netscape on the classic Mac OS. Any application creates it's own memory partition and only the most remarkably buggy apps will overwrite another app's partition (maybe something not 32-bit clean?). Netscape and some others go one step further. Once it has a partition, it never releases it back to the system*. If you quit NS and restart it, it will use exactly the same space it previously occupied. I suspect that one reason NS will freeze the system if you restart it after it crashes is that it tries to reclaim that space, but the system sees as a new app trying to overwrite another's partition and it traps the protection violation. I don't necessarily reboot immediately after all apps abend, but I would never try to run some, like NS, without rebooting. *So, if you've allocated 24 MB of your 128 MB to Netscape and then close it, you will not get that memory back for other applications without rebooting. No wonder Jump Development said you shouldn't even think about thinking about using RAM Charger on Netscape. :P (Another nasty bit with Netscape is it's not fully Smart Scroll Aware, the thumbs are fixed at the default size.) At Netscape, we read the programming manuals for the OS, then do what they say NOT to do! = The earth swarms with inhabitants. Why then should nature, which is fruitful to an excess here, be so very barren in the rest of the planets? Bernard de Fontenelle, 1686 [EMAIL PROTECTED] My ICQ# 16024947 __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
Very off topic, please excuse me. Maybe this tread will help some body. I hope. Not my words but those that may come David Robinson wrote: The problem with that is that my crashes usually occur only when working. For example, I may be using Pagemaker 6.5, and/or Photoshop 5.5, with Netscape at the same time and she'll crash. Not all the time, just some times. FWIW we have found netscape doesn't play well with other apps. Would like to recommend IE5 but that will crash itself on a bad day, good browser thou. Appleworks runs hot and cold but the new update goes along way to fix that finally. I'd be interested to know how often Pagemaker or PS5.5 crashes by themselves. We have trouble browsing with these open sometimes. Quark4+ and appleshareIP (6.+) dont get along at all. The new quark might fix that? MYOB doesn't like netscape much. The firewire 450 imac insists on trying to connect a invisible server every now and then, locking up up the startup until the servers folder is removed from the system folder. 9.0.4 bug fixed in 9.1 I think, like the one that records all your cd burning history and memory leaks. Our 7300/g3/400 has some trouble finding DHCP on a cold boot and will, at times, pause for 30 seconds (seconds in the bar clock stop, mouse free) about every 5 minutes for that reason I think, sometimes this 2 or 3 hours into work. Most recently, (on at least three occasions) the computer wouldn't start all the way up. Just to the desktop and it locks up. Then of course, you have to do a forced restart. Then, sometimes, it crashes with just one application running. It's really screwy. We found 8.6 very stable with 128 ram, not good with 64 thou, go back to 8.1 I'm looking for another 128 before trying OS9.1 on the 7300. every bit helps. :) especially with a older mac. A zip drive formatted on 9.0.4 and the drive itself plug into the 7300 running 8.1 will work fine but the data transferred from the 8.1 onto the disk comes up invalid when read under 9.0.4. Would this be a HFS, HFS extended problem? There is a great depth of knowledge of all sorts on this list. I humbly thank all new and old members for the topics shared. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
I really don't use it very much. Acutally, I hate it. But with all this nasty comment about Netscape I thought I'd try it for a while and see if IE Express worked better (fewer crashes while working in apps) than Netscape. Frankly, I prefer Netscape. But if it's as buggy as everyone seems to think then I need to try an alternative. Odd. Never had any trouble with 2.02 on my workstation IIci (IIci, 24MB RAM, 8*24*GC, cache card, Farallon EtherWave NuBus, 7.1 + Thread Manager). -- - personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- The best of all: God is with us. -- John Wesley -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
You might consider using Eudora, by far the best e-mail app, that I know of, and there are nice 68k versions available. In my experience Netscape runs much nicer on 68030 macs than IE. Netscape 2.02 is the fastest, but on a IIfx Netscape 3 and 4 work pretty well. IE is dog slow. You might consider iCab too, though it is not as fast as netscape 2.02. Netscape becoming buggy starts with version 6, a ppc only product and therefore totally off topic for this list. Godzilla runs pretty nice btw. I really don't use it very much. Acutally, I hate it. But with all this nasty comment about Netscape I thought I'd try it for a while and see if IE Express worked better (fewer crashes while working in apps) than Netscape. Frankly, I prefer Netscape. But if it's as buggy as everyone seems to think then I need to try an alternative. David Check out the System 6 Heaven: http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/system_6_heaven.html -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
--- David Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Pagmaker 6.5, it crasher quite frequently on it's on. I beginning to wonder if I should have stayed with my old friend Pagemaker 6.0. PM 6.5 crashed this morning as I was attempting to run Outlook Express. David Its always so much fun to have your Mac say... Umm, this application just quit itself and I don't know why, maybe I do but it would just confuse you if I told you. Why don't you try running it again and see if it does that again? Woops! It quit itself again. Have another go-round? Hey! Look at that, its running! I'm still trying to find out what a -671 error is. = The earth swarms with inhabitants. Why then should nature, which is fruitful to an excess here, be so very barren in the rest of the planets? Bernard de Fontenelle, 1686 [EMAIL PROTECTED] My ICQ# 16024947 __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
on 7/25/01 1:37 PM, (Vintage Macs) at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't use it very much. Acutally, I hate it. But with all this nasty comment about Netscape I thought I'd try it for a while and see if IE Express worked better (fewer crashes while working in apps) than Netscape. Frankly, I prefer Netscape. But if it's as buggy as everyone seems to think then I need to try an alternative. David I prefer IE and Outlook Express. I've had almost no problems with crashes. I used to use Netscape for web and email but I actually had more problems with Netscape than with M$ (sad to say). -- *** Amber Rhea *** [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.tangerinecs.com/~amber -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
Gregg Eshelman wrote: I'm still trying to find out what a -671 error is. -671 is a connection proccesses error usually associated with an Open Transport crash. Kyle H. Hansen -- Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning? George W. Bush -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
browsers and email on vintage Macs (was Re: Most stable OS)
on 7/25/01 4:21 PM, (Vintage Macs) at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer IE and Outlook Express. I've had almost no problems with crashes. I used to use Netscape for web and email but I actually had more problems with Netscape than with M$ (sad to say). And you run these programs on a 68030 mac? Oh, heavens no! You almost gave me heart failure there. :) I should have been more clear. People were discussing their PowerMacs, so I thought I'd chip in; I run IE and Outlook on my G4. On my Color Classic I run Netscape 2 and use NiftyTelnet for email. On my Classic I run NCSA Mosaic 1.03, and I have Eudora Lite 1.5.5 installed, though I rarely check email from that machine. Netscape 2, Eudora Lite, and NiftyTelnet are all also present on the SE/30. -- Amber Rhea [EMAIL PROTECTED] I spent eleven long years in a hot house zone I spent twentynine more trying to get home Well I never got home, but I did what I did And I got myself this house and you can't come in - Shawn Colvin -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
At 12:20 PM -0700 7/25/2001, Kyle Hansen wrote: I'm still trying to find out what a -671 error is. -671 is a connection proccesses error usually associated with an Open Transport crash. 1) Where can I find a list of error codes and what they mean? 2) One thing I'll never understand is why the Macintosh, with it's ease of use, has always had error codes that are so user unfriendly. Even DOS has no error message as unfriendly and Macintosh Error codes. Windows 95 comes close, however. -- http://homepage.mac.com/stmoody/ http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html Handgun crime in Britain has increased more than 40% since the handgun ban of 1997. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Errors on the Mac (was Re: Most stable OS)
At 20:29 -0400 on 25/07/01, Steve Moody wrote: At 12:20 PM -0700 7/25/2001, Kyle Hansen wrote: I'm still trying to find out what a -671 error is. -671 is a connection proccesses error usually associated with an Open Transport crash. 1) Where can I find a list of error codes and what they mean? Try a Google search for Apple Error Codes. The TIL has a good bit of information too. 2) One thing I'll never understand is why the Macintosh, with it's ease of use, has always had error codes that are so user unfriendly. Even DOS has no error message as unfriendly and Macintosh Error It wasn't always that way. Mac error codes usually are lower-level things than those problems that would generate an error in DOS/Windoze. For example, try removing a floppy on a DOS machine and then try writing to the A: drive. Error reading drive A. Abort/Retry/Fail? On a Mac, you would simply get the Please insert the disk message, which makes a helluva lot more sense. Example again: the general protection fault in Windoze, which is just a blanket error that usually doesn't specify anything. At least with an error number you know what you might want to look for. It's been too long since I tried to write to a locked floppy in DOS or Windoze, so I don't remember exactly what happens, but I seem to recall that it's not nearly as friendly as This floppy is locked. Most Mac error codes that actually get codes instead of explanations are very obscure things that don't happen much. In 13 years of using Macs, I've never seen a -671 error. Close to (maybe more than) 90% of what I've seen has been Type 1, 2, 3, 10, and 119, the last of which (#119) were all due to Stuffit Expander being poorly written and doing stupid things with the FCB allocation table in Mac OS 8.5 and up. I could probably come up with a lot more examples. DOS and Windoze are *not* user-friendly with their errors. _ the pickle The FAQ http://macfaq.binhost.com/ The Archive http://www.jmug.org/software/thepickle/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
At 12:20 PM -0700 7/25/2001, Kyle Hansen wrote: I'm still trying to find out what a -671 error is. -671 is a connection proccesses error usually associated with an Open Transport crash. 1) Where can I find a list of error codes and what they mean? Install MACSBug. Or rather, get MacsBugApp. You can't hurt your computer too bad with that. Open it and type Error #-671 and it'll tell ya. 2) One thing I'll never understand is why the Macintosh, with it's ease of use, has always had error codes that are so user unfriendly. Even DOS has no error message as unfriendly and Macintosh Error codes. Windows 95 comes close, however. Most people don't care about the error codes. The only ones that should ever occur would be 0 and 1... maybe 4. The others aren't too common or could easily be bypassed by a programmer (noFPU for instance). Aqua -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
I have lots of FINDER crashes Try allocating more RAM to the finder, an operation that requires the FinderFixer control panel or something similar. Download it here. http://www.hidacc.av.org/pages/suggest_fw_and_sw.html#Finder%20Fixer MJF -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most stable OS
At 8:26 AM -0500 7/24/2001, David Robinson wrote: Hey speaking of the most stable OS around, I have a PM 8500 with a XLR G3 Upgrade running at 333 mhz and 240 mgs of RAM. I have lots of FINDER crashes with System 9.1. Anybody know what to do about this stupid problem. I have already tried that trashing the finder bit and installing a new one. It' don't work! It may not be the Finder that is causing the crash. The real problem might be causing the Finder to crash. Disable all the non-OS extensions/Control Panels. Then, see if it crashes. -- http://homepage.mac.com/stmoody/ http://www.13idol.com/mac/macfacts.html Handgun crime in Britain has increased more than 40% since the handgun ban of 1997. -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most Stable OS
Wait a minute It just happened again. This time I was working in Photoshop 5.5 with Pagemaker 6.5 open and Netscape open, working a photo from an internet download into Photoshop. (Î was editing the photo at the time of the crash.) This is when most of my crashes occur. David Wait a minute indeed... Every time this subject turns up I take a look vaguely hoping somebody has something really interesting to say about some version of the macintosh operating system, but everytime I read boring messages about adobe apps crashing. Tell me something new. Adobe is pretty famous for its buggy software, and we all know that 9.1 gives plenty of incompatibility with older software. I have to deal with stuff like that on a daily basis at work. In my experience you can eliminate most problems by using a very clean and basic system. That is what I do to run eg. quark 3.31 on 9.1. I also avoid the problem by running old apps on old macs with old systems. Works like a charm. BTW There is only one really stable macintosh os and that is os x, totally off topic. The macintosh operating systems I use are 6.08, 7.1, 7.6.1, 9.1 and 10.0.4. I hardly experience crashes with any of them because I use software that works well with them and I keep my system folders very clean and basic. Marten -- Check out the System 6 Heaven: http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/system_6_heaven.html Subscribe to the LEM system6 list: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Most Stable OS
Part of the problem with Netscape 2.0 to 4.7x is that it was designed to be internally multithreaded, using a Netscape thread manager, rather than a system one*. The root of this came from Mac System 7 and 16-bit Windows. Those systems didn't have thread managers. The result is a monstrously monolithic and huge application, which uses so many resources that it can block the system I/O queues, even on multithreaded, pre-emptive multitasking systems like OS/2 or Win9x (although perhaps not NT). The system has to be rebooted because you can't get back to the Finder/WorkPlace Shell/Explorer to kill it when it hangs. To their credit, this design provided some real benefits on a 68k Mac. I can be downloading something while sending an email or reading a web page, etc. *I think NS 4.x actually uses a system thread manager extension for OS 7.5.5 and earlier. Gregg Eshelman wrote: --- David Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wait a minute It just happened again. This time I was working in Photoshop 5.5 with Pagemaker 6.5 open and Netscape open, working a photo from an internet download into Photoshop. (Î was editing the photo at the time of the crash.) This is when most of my crashes occur. David Netscape has a set of bugs that it has contained virtually unchanged since at least version 2.0. Their programmers have shown zero interest in fixing any of those classic bugs, most of which cause it to crash and usually destabilize the OS, Mac or Windows, doesn't matter with Netscape. On the Mac, I actually prefer Internet Explorer. I have to use Netscape at work because our customer database will not work properly with IE. -- /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / No HTML/RTF in email X No Word docs in email / \ Respect for open standards -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | - Epson Stylus Color 740 Printers refurbished $79 | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac, sign up for PayPal, possible $5 bonus. http://lowendmac.com/ad/paypal.html Star Trek Collection: Movies 1-7 on VideoCD, $38.88 from CoolVCD http://lowendmac.com/ad/coolvcd.html - - - - - Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.binhost.com/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
