Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Jed has shot from the hip, unfairly. Steve's visit to interview Fleischmann at his house, prior to both of them then going on to the Rome conference, was organised and agreed over three months previously. After everything was finalised, and very close to the interview date, it transpired that Fleischmann was in New York with the Energetics technology people (Dardik) and may not be back in time. Extra expense changing flights and accommodation ensued to fit it with this last minute change. Arriving in England, we were not even sure that Fleischmann had returned home but Steve phoned up anyway only to be greeted with a stonewalling American voice (that turned out to be Ryan Freilino of Energetics) that claimed to be part of the medical team treating Martin F, that he was to ill to answer the phone (the Fleischmanns have a cordless phone) and that there would be no interview. I've heard plenty of bullshitting Yanks in my time and this was total bullshit, or I'm a Dutchman. Steve decided that as there was to be no interview we might as well buy Martin some flowers and a get well card. We delivered these in person and were met by Sheila F and Ryan Freilino, who repeated the he's too sick to see anyone line. Steve made some remark expressing sorrow that Martin was not responding to the Dardik LifeWaves treatment (bear in mind that Martin had been well enough to be in New York and to travel back to Tisbury which can be grueling even for people in the best of health). Mysteriously, Martin F turned up at the Rome conference a few days later, apparently as healthy as anyone can be with his underlying medical conditions, which no-one has disputed. Upon being asked whether the I vant to be alone messages were from him or others, he replied other people. Either the LifeWaves treatment had a near miraculous effect as soon as Steve politely walked away from their door or MF wasn't anywhere near as ill as Freilino alleged and the whole story was just the Dardik's controlling access to someone they are trying to use to give their operation credibility. They have lost any credibility they may have had with me, if this is the way they operate. Nick Palmer On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it Blogspot - Sustainability and stuff according to Nick Palmer http://nickpalmer.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Radioisotope battery
From Abd: At 09:29 AM 10/12/2009, Jed Rothwell wrote: See: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10372233-1.html Cool. I assume that the radioisotope decays with emission of very low-penetrating charged-particle radiation. As long as you don't swallow it, this should be quite safe! And eating batteries isn't particularly good for your health anyway. How about stowing it away in one's front pant pocket? What would one's future children might look like? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Nick Palmer wrote: Jed has shot from the hip, unfairly. Not exactly. Martin and his daughter told me their side of the story. Steve decided that as there was to be no interview we might as well buy Martin some flowers and a get well card. We delivered these in person and were met by Sheila F and Ryan Freilino, who repeated the he's too sick to see anyone line. When Sheila told you Martin did not wish to see you, that should have been the end of the story. You should have handed over the flowers with your best wishes, gone home, said nothing and done nothing. This is the family's business only. You should not discuss it in public or offer any opinion. Sickness and old age are bad enough! Sheila has quite enough problems without you jokers adding to her burden. Steve made some remark expressing sorrow that Martin was not responding to the Dardik LifeWaves treatment . . . STOP publishing comments about the medical conditions of private individuals. Fleischmann is not Michael Jackson for crying out loud! Either the LifeWaves treatment had a near miraculous effect as soon as Steve politely walked away from their door or MF wasn't anywhere near as ill as Freilino alleged . . . Whether he was or was not gravely ill and whether Life Waves therapy work or not is NONE OR YOUR BUSINESS and NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS FORUM, or any other. If the patient wishes to disclose some aspect of his treatment, here or anywhere else, that is his business. As it happens I suffer from neurological problems similar to Fleischmann's. That is obvious to anyone who meets me. It is annoying but not debilitating. I have never made a big deal about it and if it bothers someone they can go jump in a lake. I am likely to live as long as Fleischmann has, which is long enough. If I feel like disclosing some aspect of my medical condition, that's my business. If I do not feel like discussing it then you would be way out of line discussing it or trying to find out what treatments I may or may not be taking. (None, as it happens, other than vigorous exercise; bicycling and ~500 pushups per day. I have difficulty with a pen or spoon but I can easily handle an axe or chainsaw, which perhaps influences the way I deal with adversaries such as Robert Park.) - Jed
RE: [Vo]:Radioisotope battery
At 08:45 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: From Abd: Cool. I assume that the radioisotope decays with emission of very low-penetrating charged-particle radiation. As long as you don't swallow it, this should be quite safe! And eating batteries isn't particularly good for your health anyway. How about stowing it away in one's front pant pocket? What would one's future children might look like? Children normally look reasonably like their parents. Children of parents with a radioisotope cell phone tucked in their pants pocket would look the same. The radiation is beta, very low-penetration. Beta emitters are harmless unless you swallow them or otherwise get them in direct contact (or solution) in tissues. Except don't hold your breath for that cell phone. There is, shall we say, a bit of engineering to do. Liquid-Semiconductor-Based Micro Power Source Using Radioisotope Energy Conversion T. Wacharasindhu, J.W. Kwon, D.E. Meier, And J.D. Robertson -- University of Missouri, USA This presents a betavoltaic micro power source using liquid-semiconductor for the first time. The battery is powered by a radioactive sulfur (35S) source with a selenium liquid-semiconductor-based Schottky diode for direct power conversion. The radioisotope material is encapsulated with liquid semiconductor in a micromachined device to capture the full potential of radioactive material in all direction. Experimental results show that maximum of 16.2 nW can be harvested from the micromachined liquid semiconductor Schottky diode. A large open-circuit voltage of 899mV and short-circuit current of 0.107 A were also observed. The copy and paste lost the micro. That was uA, not A. Too bad, eh? One might think a similar device would work with the charged particle radiation from a CF cell. Again, a bit of an engineering problem. How can one harvest the radiation from the NAE? Just about any intervening material would absorb too much radiation, and NAE seems to depend on deuterium flux. Maybe a gas-loading technique would work, though. Looking for the paper, I noticed that a company that makes digital holographic microscopes, nanometer-scale resolution, 3D, presented there. Now, wouldn't it be cool if we could image a PdD system while NAE is active? I don't even want to think about what these microscopes cost. Maybe someone will email me a lottery ticket that wins, I'm certainly not going to buy one, too much of a ... long shot, unlike my cold fusion project, which I consider little short of a sure thing; indeed, my own flakiness is the biggest obstacle, not money or the technology. That is, I'll be able to put together reliable and affordable kits that show something interesting.
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
At 07:52 AM 10/13/2009, Nick Palmer wrote: Jed has shot from the hip, unfairly. I thought long and hard about whether or not to comment on this, it's practically a lose-lose situation. On the one hand, I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Krivit, he's done a great deal to benefit the field, and clearly works hard. However, I've also seen him get personally embroiled in disputes, and he ends up reporting news that he created, i.e., the news is about his own conflicts. That's a problem for a journalist, and probably Steve should have a neutral editor, if he doesn't. Was this story worth reporting? That's a difficult call, in fact. There is the very real privacy issue that Jed raised, in his own inimitable style. Jed has a way of saying what needs to be said, often, but isn't necessarily politic about it. Behind what happened in England with the scheduled interview may be a story that none of us know, and may never know, and it basically isn't our business, even though most of us are quite concerned about Fleischmann and his health. He looked good in the photo from Rome, I'll say, but Krivit would be better qualified to report on his condition there, and that kind of reporting is good and desirable, even though it, too, can be somewhat invasive. There is a balance between privacy rights and the right of the public to know. In the end, for me, the right of Fleischmann and his family, as to what takes place in his home and between whoever he -- or his family -- trust for medical care, trumps the desire I have for the latest news. Fleischmann reportedly told Krivit in Rome that he could ask any questions, there at the conference. That should be enough. Now, I very much understand Krivit's disappointment at being turned away. It seems terribly unfair, and, indeed, it was unfair, handled poorly by Feilino, but we don't know what conditions Freilino faced, and he doesn't strike me as one who would be expected to handle the situation with high professionalism. He's young, very young, and we don't know what instructions he had. As I think I wrote before, if foul play was suspected, the police should have been called; trying to raise suspicion in the general public, instead of with responsible authorities, was a poor move. Steve's visit to interview Fleischmann at his house, prior to both of them then going on to the Rome conference, was organised and agreed over three months previously. After everything was finalised, and very close to the interview date, it transpired that Fleischmann was in New York with the Energetics technology people (Dardik) and may not be back in time. Extra expense changing flights and accommodation ensued to fit it with this last minute change. Arriving in England, we were not even sure that Fleischmann had returned home but Steve phoned up anyway only to be greeted with a stonewalling American voice (that turned out to be Ryan Freilino of Energetics) that claimed to be part of the medical team treating Martin F, that he was to ill to answer the phone (the Fleischmanns have a cordless phone) and that there would be no interview. I've heard plenty of bullshitting Yanks in my time and this was total bullshit, or I'm a Dutchman. Do you have a Dutch passport? Snarky comments aside, Fleischmann had just returned from a long trip. He may have been quite fatigued; combine this with some level of illness, quite simply, he may have been in no condition to talk to anyone. Nick, you are here reporting as fact what Krivit told you, with not the bare text but with interpretation, such as stonewalling. You are personally involved, you travelled too, and you are angry. Understandable, it was disappointing, and if it's possible to blame someone for your disappointment, it's quite natural. But it isn't news. Steve decided that as there was to be no interview we might as well buy Martin some flowers and a get well card. Nice. Too bad the flowers were accompanied with some spite. We delivered these in person and were met by Sheila F and Ryan Freilino, who repeated the he's too sick to see anyone line. Steve made some remark expressing sorrow that Martin was not responding to the Dardik LifeWaves treatment (bear in mind that Martin had been well enough to be in New York and to travel back to Tisbury which can be grueling even for people in the best of health). Absolutely, Steve crossed the line there. The flowers were absolutely on the mark, and it's a shame Steve couldn't have taken some of the wrapping and stuffed it in his mouth. If it was as stated, it was an insult to both Freilino and Fleischmann's wife. Fleischmann could, indeed, be responding to the treatment and still be too fatigued or too ill to meet with them. I could also criticize, perhaps, a potential lack of hospitality from Freilino or the wife, but I don't have any report from them, and quite insufficient detail from Krivit and
Re: [Vo]:Radioisotope battery
Looks very promising. What are the obstacles to get thisbattery in public use? I find debate meaningless if there are like legal constraints. In that case the legal constraingt should be addressed first otherwise a technical/scientific discussion becomes meaningless. A lot of effective physics is restricetd. Effectiveness=danger. David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote: At 08:45 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: From Abd: Cool. I assume that the radioisotope decays with emission of very low-penetrating charged-particle radiation. As long as you don't swallow it, this should be quite safe! And eating batteries isn't particularly good for your health anyway. How about stowing it away in one's front pant pocket? What would one's future children might look like? Children normally look reasonably like their parents. Children of parents with a radioisotope cell phone tucked in their pants pocket would look the same. The radiation is beta, very low-penetration. Beta emitters are harmless unless you swallow them or otherwise get them in direct contact (or solution) in tissues. Except don't hold your breath for that cell phone. There is, shall we say, a bit of engineering to do. Liquid-Semiconductor-Based Micro Power Source Using Radioisotope Energy Conversion T. Wacharasindhu, J.W. Kwon, D.E. Meier, And J.D. Robertson -- University of Missouri, USA This presents a betavoltaic micro power source using liquid-semiconductor for the first time. The battery is powered by a radioactive sulfur (35S) source with a selenium liquid-semiconductor-based Schottky diode for direct power conversion. The radioisotope material is encapsulated with liquid semiconductor in a micromachined device to capture the full potential of radioactive material in all direction. Experimental results show that maximum of 16.2 nW can be harvested from the micromachined liquid semiconductor Schottky diode. A large open-circuit voltage of 899mV and short-circuit current of 0.107 A were also observed. The copy and paste lost the micro. That was uA, not A. Too bad, eh? One might think a similar device would work with the charged particle radiation from a CF cell. Again, a bit of an engineering problem. How can one harvest the radiation from the NAE? Just about any intervening material would absorb too much radiation, and NAE seems to depend on deuterium flux. Maybe a gas-loading technique would work, though. Looking for the paper, I noticed that a company that makes digital holographic microscopes, nanometer-scale resolution, 3D, presented there. Now, wouldn't it be cool if we could image a PdD system while NAE is active? I don't even want to think about what these microscopes cost. Maybe someone will email me a lottery ticket that wins, I'm certainly not going to buy one, too much of a ... long shot, unlike my cold fusion project, which I consider little short of a sure thing; indeed, my own flakiness is the biggest obstacle, not money or the technology. That is, I'll be able to put together reliable and affordable kits that show something interesting.
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
At 10:03 AM 10/13/2009, Jed Rothwell wrote: When Sheila told you Martin did not wish to see you, that should have been the end of the story. You should have handed over the flowers with your best wishes, gone home, said nothing and done nothing. This is the family's business only. You should not discuss it in public or offer any opinion. Sickness and old age are bad enough! Sheila has quite enough problems without you jokers adding to her burden. Krivit misbehaved in England, and should apologize to the family. His frustration was understandable, but what do we think about a reporter who takes his own frustration out on a subject who refuses an interview -- or, with the permission of the family, blocks one? Unprofessional is the word that comes to mind. We all make mistakes; and Steve made several here, and the sooner he realizes his mistakes and acknowledges them as such, the sooner he, New Energy Times, the Fleischmann family, and the rest of us can recover from it. I'm hoping that Steve does the right thing, it's pretty simple, and if he does, it's over. If not, this will stand as a stain on his record, a very public record that will endure. It is not the job of a reporter to disgorge every experience of the reporter; rather, discretion is required. No facts were uncovered or reported by Krivit that would make the sequence of events sufficiently notable to report to the public. Krivit is free, as an individual, to blog about his speculations and concerns, but there is a problem when a serious reporter, as Krivit attempts to be, mixes his roles. We may be free to blog, but all of our work may then be judged by what we say. Reporter Steve Krivit of New Energy Times attempted to meet with Dr. Martin Fleischmann at his home in England on , as had been previously arranged, but was turned away, being told that Fleischmann wasn't well enough to meet. Several days later, Krivit interviewed Fleischmann in Rome, and he was apparently in good condition. The interview follows That's about it. It's possible that Dr. Fleischmann's treatment with LifeWave is reportable, but such matters should be carefully balanced with privacy issues, and I'm not convinced that sufficient detail is available to make for a story; extrapolation from a patient's condition on one day, with no details, is utterly inappropriate. Nobody ever said that the job of a journalist is easy.
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
At 10:03 AM 10/13/2009, Jed Rothwell wrote: As it happens I suffer from neurological problems similar to Fleischmann's. That is obvious to anyone who meets me. It is annoying but not debilitating. I have never made a big deal about it and if it bothers someone they can go jump in a lake. I am likely to live as long as Fleischmann has, which is long enough. If I feel like disclosing some aspect of my medical condition, that's my business. If I do not feel like discussing it then you would be way out of line discussing it or trying to find out what treatments I may or may not be taking. (None, as it happens, other than vigorous exercise; bicycling and ~500 pushups per day. I have difficulty with a pen or spoon but I can easily handle an axe or chainsaw, which perhaps influences the way I deal with adversaries such as Robert Park.) Couldn't resist. - NORTHAMPTON, MASSACHUSETTS, October 13, 2009. Observer Abd ul-Rahman Lomax, of Lomax Design Associates, today read the above comment from Jed Rothwell, which could explain Rothwell's sometimes erratic behavior. As admitted, Rothwell has difficulty with a pen, which he frequently uses as an axe or chainsaw. Rothwell is hostile toward complaints, telling critics to go jump in a lake, an exact quote. His refusal of orthodox medical treatment for his neurological problems would be in line with his naive acceptance of fringe scientific theories, such as cold fusion, and he imagines that vigorous and extreme exercise will help him, instead of the proven products of the American pharmaceutical industry. As a result, he's not expected to live beyond 82. He did not disclose his age, which would be consistent with his secretive attitude about other aspects of his work. - Freedom of speech and the press, ain't it great? Careful about that axe/chainsaw pen, Jed. Great image, eh? I love it. Is there a CF seminar scheduled for the ACS national conference in San Francisco in March? Do you think you might be there? I'd love to meet you. Should I wear armor? How much noise does that pen make, would I be able to hear it start up and run or duck? Good luck with your neurological problem. I've got my own, to be sure; happens as you get older. I would never be so uncivil as to tell my own critics to jump in a lake, unless it's icy cold and I think the shock might help them; instead I recommend taking up kite-flying. A woman I loved once told me to go soak my head, so I walked immediately outside, where there was a snow-fed stream, and immersed my head in it. Not recommended if you are not in good health, but it was better than LSD.
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Dear Vortex, Jed Rothwell and Abd ul-Rahman_Lomax have expressed themselves with a great deal of rage and outrage that I reported that Martin is suffering from Parkinson's disease and diabetes. Despite their mudslinging and pontification (a popular word here in Italy), the fact is that Martin's health challenges are far from private. I learned about Martin's health issues from the CBS 60 Minutes program earlier this year - as did the rest of the world. I quote: Martin Fleischmann, the man who announced cold fusion to the world, is hindered by years, diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and maybe a little bitterness. At home, he pulled out an improved version of his experiment, something that he was working on when he was hounded out of science. I don't recall any such outrage from Jed Rothwell and Abd ul-Rahman_Lomax at that time. Steve
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: NORTHAMPTON, MASSACHUSETTS, October 13, 2009. Observer Abd ul-Rahman Lomax, of Lomax Design Associates, today read the above comment from Jed Rothwell, which could explain Rothwell's sometimes erratic behavior. As admitted, Rothwell has difficulty with a pen, which he frequently uses as an axe or chainsaw. . . . That's hysterical! Regarding Martin Fleischmann, people who has seen him often in the past year tell me that he seems remarkably better lately. I cannot judge whether this is thanks to the treatment or just a natural improvement. It is good news either way. I will be interested in finding out if the therapy works, for personal reasons. Fleischmann gave a short talk at the beginning of the conference. He sounded tired but mentally all there, as he did in conversation later. His talk was greeted with a standing ovation from all participants, which he richly deserves. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Steven Krivit wrote: Jed Rothwell and Abd ul-Rahman_Lomax have expressed themselves with a great deal of rage and outrage . . . Disgust, not outrage. Despite their mudslinging and pontification (a popular word here in Italy), the fact is that Martin's health challenges are far from private. I learned about Martin's health issues from the CBS 60 Minutes program earlier this year - as did the rest of the world. I quote: Martin Fleischmann, the man who announced cold fusion to the world, is hindered by years, diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and maybe a little bitterness. At home, he pulled out an improved version of his experiment, something that he was working on when he was hounded out of science. Mentioning that someone has Parkinson's is not an invasion of privacy. When you see someone with this disease (or something like it) either in person or in a video it is obvious. Anyone watching me drink hot coffee for 20 seconds will see the symptoms. It is nothing to get worked up about. What Lomax and I object to are gratuitous invasions of privacy such as detailed descriptions of personal behavior, the choice of therapy, the fact that some people consider the doctor a quack, or a description of the caretaker Freilino (who is a nice young man doing a fine job). These things are all off limits. They are personal; private; none of your damn business. And who the heck thinks it is newsworthy that a sick man in his 80s decides cancel an appointment?!? This is not surprising, significant, and a polite person will not mention it except to say, we had an appointment but regrettably Fleischmann did not feel up to it. These ridiculous insinuations that he is being controlled by Freilino are out of line and completely without foundation. As I said before, it is bad enough being old and sick. Who the heck wants to see the details spewed on the Internet? Who needs nitwits coming to your door and asking nosy questions? Frankly, if I were Bill Beaty, I would delete this whole thread and ban Krivit if he does not stop this nonsense. Krivit apparently never learned grown-up manners or the concept of privacy, and he makes a mountain out of a molehill. An imaginary molehill! It is regrettable that this field attracts so many dysfunctional people. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
ABD and Jed. You are both completely failing to digest the point that this interview at Fleishmann's house was arranged and agreed months in advance. Jed and ABD's's bluster, imputing invasion of privacy, is ridiculous. If someone turns up for a scheduled interview it is not an invasion of privacy - there is no privacy angle whatsoever involved. JR: Fleischmann is under no obligation to meet with Krivit or anyone else. He is under no obligation to give a reason why he does not wish to speak with Krivit. Yes he is if he agreed to it - even if Steve lived in the same town. That flights, travel, expense and a lot of time were involved as well makes it doubly so. It is very rude to behave otherwise. Perhaps you also missed that the factor that caused all this interference with a long arranged interview was the SUBSEQUENT involvement of the Energetics types who presumably caused the effective reneging by Martin of his being able to make the scheduled appointment *while he was still in the US* and healthy enough to do several interviews. Their involvement caused Martin to delay his return to the UK. I already mentioned that flights and accommodation had to be altered because of this. JR: When Sheila told you Martin did not wish to see you, that should have been the end of the story. She did not say that. I remember it as Freilino saying that Martin was to ill to see anyone (which is not the same as not wishing to see us) - Sheila only acquiesced. That is quite different. In any event, it really was the end of that story because then we wished the Fleischmanns well and left. ABD: Nick, you are here reporting as fact what Krivit told you, with not the bare text but with interpretation, such as stonewalling. You guessed and you were wrong. The conversation with Freilino was on speaker phone. I heard all but the first couple of words of it. I will go further - I felt that the tone that Freilino adopted was sinister and heavy. At that point we did not know it was Freilino (he did not identify himself), or indeed that there would be anyone other than the Fleischmanns there. I found it very chilling. He claimed that he spoke on behalf of the medical team (implying more than one) and to a Brit, used to the British Health Service the way he said it made my flesh crawl. A medical team to us suggests that someone is at death's door and the team is working frantically to save them - not giving them minor exercises to do at defined intervals in some born-again biorhythms new-age medical procedure. JR: As it happens I suffer from neurological problems similar to Fleischmann's As it happens, my wife suffers from similar neurological problems which could render her incapable of doing an interview, chainsawing or picking up a spoon. If she was well enough to do interviews in one continent, travel to another then fly on to a conference, all within a few days there is no way in hell she could be reasonably well, extremely ill and reasonably well again so fast. It is clear to me, who was there, that Freilino was controlling the situation. It is perfectly possible that Martin was tired, or very tired, by his trip back home but that is not what Freilino said - he said he was too ill. ABD: (about me) I don't doubt your honesty in the report, but most of your report wasn't your own direct experience, but quite likely hearsay from Steve; yet you would have witnessed some of what Steve reported, and you omitted the negative parts of it from your own report. Again you are wrong - it wasn't hearsay neither did I omit anything significant. The only part I cannot swear by is Martin's comment that it was other people (rather than him) who were behind the obfuscation because I did not go on to Rome. Nick Palmer On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it Blogspot - Sustainability and stuff according to Nick Palmer http://nickpalmer.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Nick Palmer wrote: JR: Fleischmann is under no obligation to meet with Krivit or anyone else. He is under no obligation to give a reason why he does not wish to speak with Krivit. Yes he is if he agreed to it - even if Steve lived in the same town. That flights, travel, expense and a lot of time were involved as well makes it doubly so. It is very rude to behave otherwise. If anyone in this world has the right to be rude it would be Martin Fleischmann. He is also good at being rude. He's had lots of practice. Look Nick, I was with him a few days ago for a couple of hours. He is old and frail and tired at times. Someone in that condition should turn down an appointment any time he does not feel up to it. I don't care if the appointment is with the Queen of Sheeba and it was made in an another life a thousand years ago. It is asinine for you to make a fuss about it. Krivit was in Europe for the conference in any case. If she was well enough to do interviews in one continent, travel to another then fly on to a conference, all within a few days there is no way in hell she could be reasonably well, extremely ill and reasonably well again so fast. Apparently you have not lived with Parkinson's disease. My mother and others I know died from it. I assure you the patient can be well in the morning and comatose in the afternoon. It is clear to me, who was there, that Freilino was controlling the situation. No one ever controls Martin's situation but Martin. This conversation is beyond the pale. You and Steve should put a sock in it and stop making yourselves look like ninnies. - Jed
[Vo]:Large Hadron Collider may be reaching back in time to sabotage itself
My sister sent me this link under the Subject: huh? wtf? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/science/space/13lhc.html QUOTE: A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather. And these mainstream physicists say that we have a screw loose! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Jed, As before, I thank you for your opinions. And certainly Bill Beatty is wise and cool-headed enough to notice that I have not made personal attacks against you, but you have against me. Steve At 11:27 AM 10/13/2009, you wrote: Steven Krivit wrote: Jed Rothwell and Abd ul-Rahman_Lomax have expressed themselves with a great deal of rage and outrage . . . Disgust, not outrage. Despite their mudslinging and pontification (a popular word here in Italy), the fact is that Martin's health challenges are far from private. I learned about Martin's health issues from the CBS 60 Minutes program earlier this year - as did the rest of the world. I quote: Martin Fleischmann, the man who announced cold fusion to the world, is hindered by years, diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and maybe a little bitterness. At home, he pulled out an improved version of his experiment, something that he was working on when he was hounded out of science. Mentioning that someone has Parkinson's is not an invasion of privacy. When you see someone with this disease (or something like it) either in person or in a video it is obvious. Anyone watching me drink hot coffee for 20 seconds will see the symptoms. It is nothing to get worked up about. What Lomax and I object to are gratuitous invasions of privacy such as detailed descriptions of personal behavior, the choice of therapy, the fact that some people consider the doctor a quack, or a description of the caretaker Freilino (who is a nice young man doing a fine job). These things are all off limits. They are personal; private; none of your damn business. And who the heck thinks it is newsworthy that a sick man in his 80s decides cancel an appointment?!? This is not surprising, significant, and a polite person will not mention it except to say, we had an appointment but regrettably Fleischmann did not feel up to it. These ridiculous insinuations that he is being controlled by Freilino are out of line and completely without foundation. As I said before, it is bad enough being old and sick. Who the heck wants to see the details spewed on the Internet? Who needs nitwits coming to your door and asking nosy questions? Frankly, if I were Bill Beaty, I would delete this whole thread and ban Krivit if he does not stop this nonsense. Krivit apparently never learned grown-up manners or the concept of privacy, and he makes a mountain out of a molehill. An imaginary molehill! It is regrettable that this field attracts so many dysfunctional people. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Frankly, if I were Bill Beaty, I would delete this whole thread and ban Krivit if he does not stop this nonsense. Jed, I never thought I'd see the day that you would encourage censorship, either post facto, or pre-emptively. Steve
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Steven Krivit wrote: Jed, I never thought I'd see the day that you would encourage censorship, either post facto, or pre-emptively. Then you haven't been paying attention. I have often done this, such as when people posted rude messages or highly off-topic stuff. This is the first time I recall anyone posting details about other people's personal medical choices, but there was never a time in my life when I would have approved. What next? A blow by blow description of someone's sex life?!? (I am not sure if blow by blow is the right word, but if it is, that would be all the more reason to censor it.) Are you planning to tell us all about you treat your own hemorrhoids, or that nasty case of syphilis you picked up in Rio de Janeiro? Oh wait . . . were you the one who told me about that? Well, maybe it was you. Someone whose name starts with S or W. So I'll just tell everyone it was you and let the chips fall where they may. It would be censorship otherwise. A person should always say whatever pops into his head, regardless of the consequences or the fact that it is impolite and serves no purpose and there is not a shred of evidence for it. It's like what you do at parties when you feel a fart coming on, where you pull down your pants and light a match in anticipation. Quite the life of the party! Let it all hang out! They loved it when you did that last week in Rome, even though it disrupted the lecture. Wait, wait . . . maybe that wasn't you either? Okay maybe I'm confused again. But hey, if rumors circulate I'm not responsible. Just telling it like it is, as we said back in 1965. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Large Hadron Collider may be reaching back in time to sabotage itself
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: Sounds like self deprecating humor to me. A comment of the difficulty of finding the Higgs boson (BTW you can search for a very long time for something that doesn't exist). You would think so, but these people are serious. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
At 03:44 PM 10/13/2009, Steven Krivit wrote: Dear Vortex, Jed Rothwell and Abd ul-Rahman_Lomax have expressed themselves with a great deal of rage and outrage that I reported that Martin is suffering from Parkinson's disease and diabetes. No. And if you think that's what happened, Steve, and I don't for a moment believe that you would be dishonest, get some neutral advice. Rothwell knows Fleischmann and may have personal feelings involved, but rage and outrage doesn't capture my feelings. It's more like embarrassment. Despite their mudslinging and pontification (a popular word here in Italy), the fact is that Martin's health challenges are far from private. I learned about Martin's health issues from the CBS 60 Minutes program earlier this year - as did the rest of the world. Yes. Beside the point. Rothwell spoke about privacy, my concern was somewhat different. Indeed, Fleischmann is a public figure. What you wrote about, Steve, was not merely what is known about the good doctor's health, but about interaction with his family, with overtones that were far from neutral. I quote: Martin Fleischmann, the man who announced cold fusion to the world, is hindered by years, diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and maybe a little bitterness. At home, he pulled out an improved version of his experiment, something that he was working on when he was hounded out of science. I don't recall any such outrage from Jed Rothwell and Abd ul-Rahman_Lomax at that time. Because there was nothing particularly outrageous about it. My recommendation: Steve, let it rest. If someone speaks about it, unless you can say something that will actually make the situation better -- and you might be able to, if you can get some perspective -- remain silent. Don't defend yourself, not by argument. It almost always backfires. Pontification. Okay, I'll buy it. I kind of like the sound. How much?
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann??
Personally, I wonder if the scientific community is nearly incapable of progress because it's dominated by undiagnosed Aspergers and related syndromes. Instead of being fascinated by shiny objects, they obsess about assorted technicalities and tend to be puzzled by common social demands. Hint, Hint. I score high on the appraisal test, so mea culpa, comrades.
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
At 03:51 PM 10/13/2009, Nick Palmer wrote: ABD and Jed. You are both completely failing to digest the point that this interview at Fleishmann's house was arranged and agreed months in advance. Jed and ABD's's bluster, imputing invasion of privacy, is ridiculous. If someone turns up for a scheduled interview it is not an invasion of privacy - there is no privacy angle whatsoever involved. I'm limiting myself to response on this point: I fully acknowledged the fact of prior arrangement, and the obvious inconvenience that the cancellation represented to Krivit and Palmer. However, the privacy angle doesn't have to do with showing up as scheduled; it has to do with other behavior, which was examined in detail previously, and I see no need to repeat it.
Re: correction /Re: [Vo]:The Electric Field Outside a Stationary Resistive Wire Carrying a Constant Current
This link is for Harry; Physicists Measure Elusive 'Persistent Current' That Flows Forever http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091011071349.htm Doesn't sound like anything is ever going to be powered by it. Ron --On Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:28 AM +1100 mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:35:43 -0400: Hi, Ok, I guess it is necessary to distinguish between a capacitor, a battery and an EMF. Both a battery and a capacitor can produce a current for a _limited_ period of time, whereas an EMF can produce a current for an _unlimited_ period of time. There ain't no sich animal. Nothing runs forever. The universe is a big battery, and it's running down. You can only maintain an EMF at a constant level, when current is flowing in a resistive circuit, by supplying energy. IOW you have to pump the electrons from the low voltage side back to the high voltage side. This is usually done with a changing magnetic field (i.e. a generator or dynamo), which once again introduces a step in the voltage going around the circuit. You can picture the voltage at each point as single rotation of a helix with a vertical axis with the begin and end points joined by a straight vertical line. That vertical line is where the energy is added. Energy is lost to resistance as the current runs around the helix. With that in mind, let me refine the question. Can a current which runs indefinitely (and does not occur in a superconductor) be explained consistently only with the concept of an electric field? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
On a completely personal note, I would not want to give the impression that I have Parkinson's. I have no idea what it is, and neither do the doctors. They call it essential tremor, where essential is medical jargon meaning 'built-in, always there,' or 'we don't have a clue what causes it.' There are many possible causes. On the other hand, Parkinson's runs in the family and my deceased relatives had the same kind of symptoms at my age, so it is a good bet that I do. You have to die of something and Parkinson's is not a bad way to go. Because it was free, I took part in a neurological medical study at Emory U. The doctors measured this and that and poked me with needles. They did not seem alarmed. They confirmed there is a problem but it is mild and requires no treatment. They said the best way to find out exactly what's wrong would be with an autopsy, but I would prefer not to undergo that just yet. No doubt it will get worse with age. I know from experience that exercise reduces the problem, and they confirmed that. Fleischmann told me he has had the problem for a long time. So did my mother, and others I have known who had it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann??
At 05:58 PM 10/13/2009, Chris Zell wrote: Personally, I wonder if the scientific community is nearly incapable of progress because it's dominated by undiagnosed Aspergers and related syndromes. Instead of being fascinated by shiny objects, they obsess about assorted technicalities and tend to be puzzled by common social demands. Hint, Hint. I score high on the appraisal test, so mea culpa, comrades. I don't think I have Asperger's, but I know at least one brilliant mathematician who does. However, I'm sure I have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, and it is, indeed, a disorder, and difficulty with common social demands can be a big part of it, indeed, that's part of why it's a disorder and not merely a difference. Some of the damage from these conditions can be averted if the person and those in relationship with him or her are aware of it, and know how to move around it and factor for it. And, of course, there can also be benefits from the conditions, that's one of the complications. I wouldn't trade my ADHD for normal for anything. But it can also be a damn nuisance! Lost a big contract once because I was concentrating on some work; when I do that, everything else disappears. I looked up, saw the clock, and I was late for the appointment. Got there and was told that, too late, you were late so we don't want you to do any more work from us. It was stupid for that company, my work was excellent, and saved them a lot of money, and it was only a new Controller (apt title!) who had just come out of the military and who was imposing his standards. My ability to be on-time with him had nothing to do with my ability to perform the work on-time, because, in that business, when I had a job, I'd start it immediately and not stop until it was done. Time would largely disappear. And, of course, if I had an appointment during that time -- I was working for another customer -- it was indeed possible I'd miss it if there wasn't some kind of reminder. I've learned, now, to set alarms on my iPhone. Classic problem, there is a story about it in Driven to Distraction, Hallowell's excellent book about ADHD. Employee comes up with idea to save his company millions of dollars a year. Tells his boss, who sets up a meeting in a month and asks the employee to prepare a report. Employee sits down, tries to write the report, but something distracts him. Sits down again, same thing. Finally, the day before the meeting, the employee sits down and this time pushes through all distractions, and finishes the report by 6:00 A.M. Then falls asleep and wakes up and it's late, rushes to work and hands the report to his boss, who says, Thanks. You're fired. The company did implement the suggestion and did save millions of dollars a year. The employee ended up okay, though. He started his own consulting business and was fine. If the company had understood the employee's condition, they'd have done two things: first, not set up a condition where someone with ADHD is likely to fail, i.e., a deadline in a month for something that takes a day's work to do. Smaller chunks might be needed (and it's more complicated than that). If the boss had said, Get me a preliminary report on that, at least an outline, by tomorrow, it would have been on his desk the next day, or maybe the employee would have slept through that day, and it would have been there the day after that, no harm! Second, they'd assign him a secretary, someone to keep him on track, and he'd be worth it.
Re: correction /Re: [Vo]:The Electric Field Outside a Stationary Resistive Wire Carrying a Constant Current
At 06:20 PM 10/13/2009, Ron Wormus wrote: This link is for Harry; Physicists Measure Elusive 'Persistent Current' That Flows Forever http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091011071349.htm Doesn't sound like anything is ever going to be powered by it. Ron Yeah. Persistent Current sounds like DC to me, but this apparently is AC. Or is it? This seems to be a copy of the actual paper: http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0906/0906.4780.pdf Or is it this: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0810/0810.4384v2.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
sigh Terry
Re: [Vo]:Large Hadron Collider may be reaching back in time to sabotage itself
--- On Tue, 10/13/09, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather. Unfalsifiability. We have gone from a science, to a religion. DATELINE... VOICEOVER: Thousands of believers and pilgrims have come to Geneva today, seeking spiritual guidance from the so-called Higgs boson, a theorized but unproven mediator of mass. Though some are calling it a pilgrimage for nothing. Chants of people shouting praises to the Higgs, hands uplifted, some clapping and holding hands REPORTER: This man... a middle aged man appears, captioned This Man REPORTER: ...has joined a rapidly growing religious movement centered at the LHC, which adherents to this religion, known as Higgslam, hold to be holy ground. THIS MAN: You see, we must pray daily to the Higgs. We must face east, in the direction of this holy land, when we pray. The Muslims have their Mecca. We have our Meson. We must make a pilgrimage to it. There is only one Higgs, and Leon Lederman is his prophet. cue a view of televangelists capering and gambolling across a stage, with hundreds of followers collapsing onto the floor, violently spasming VOICEOVER: Here at Trinity Broadcasting Network, the famous and sometimes infamous evangelical Christian media outlet, the Higgs particle with its time-defying nature has been hailed as a direct connection to their other two deities of choice, God and his sidekick, the Almighty Dollar. cue random televangelist and wife with ridiculous amount of makeup and enormous hair TELEVANGELIST: You see, the Higgs has no beginning and no end. It has time-altering properties, just as our God does. It is the alpha and the omega. cue more pentecostal bedlam REPORTER: Two powerful Dons of the Christian Mafia, Kenneth Copeland and Paul Crouch, further embrace this. Behind me, you can see hundreds of followers collapsing the the ground in what is now being termed, Slain in the Synchrotron. Their newest program, the COLLIDER'S VOICE OF VICTORY, seeks to latch on to this new blending of faith and particle physics. EVANGELIST, screaming to crowd: Let us sing praise to electrical charge and COLOR! For now, brothers, now is the time when there will be those who will tempt us down dark paths. But these are the works of the DEVIL! Beware the beast, the ANTIPARTICLE, whose mass is six hundred and sixty six MeV/c^2!!! REPORTER: And the fervor has gone both ways. cut back to the LHC, where a stock-white-labcoated-glasses-wearing-balding-unkempt-beard-sporting-softspoken-yet-brighteyed-scientist-type is walking and talking to a reporter CARDBOARD-CUTOUT-SCIENTIST: Well, we've begun to feel that there should be a blend of faith and physics. It helps us to reconcile hard facts that we don't like to deal with, and to hold onto our deeply held beliefs. We've found, to our amazement, that we hold much in common with the average believer. REPORTER: Professor, is it true you no longer call yourself a particle physicist, but a 'scientific apologist?' C-C-S: Absolutely. It is fitting, because, you see I was taught something by the believers. I learned that we need not throw out our theories if they are proven wrong. You see, the theory was never wrong, it was simply human misinterpretation. VOICEOVER: He goes on to say, the influx of believers and pilgrims has proven quite useful. C-C-S: Oh yes, absolutely. With all the new particles we are now theorizing, we need a great deal of names. These fellows who speak in tongues are quite adept at coming up with fanciful new particle names. VOICEOVER: But not all in the scientific community welcome this new change in attitude. Noted scientist and author Richard Dawkins has recently published his take on these matters in his newest book, The Higgs Delusion, in which he posits that a particle based only in faith, which cannot be detected, is merely a delusion. LHC again in background, with a holy war raging between sects of Supersymmetrical Baptists, Higgslamic Strong-Force Jihaddists and Electrically Neutral Jews. REPORTER: We close this report today with commentary by the world's foremost authority on everything. DR. STRANGELOVE: Mein Fuhrer! I can WALK! Postmortem: Er. Postscript: Not trying to be sacrilegious, just revelling the the absurdity of it all. --Kyle
Re: [Vo]:Large Hadron Collider may be reaching back in time to sabotage itself
Kyle Mcallister wrote: Unfalsifiability. We have gone from a science, to a religion. I agree in general this is true of high energy physics, but to give credit where it is due, one of the physicist who proposed this did propose some tests, statistical in nature. Details were not given and I could not judge them in any case. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann
I seem to recall that essential tremor is eased by alcoholic beverages whereas Parkinson's is not. Anyway, it's a good excuse to buy some wine... Nick Palmer On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it Blogspot - Sustainability and stuff according to Nick Palmer http://nickpalmer.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Fleischmann
Jed wrote: Fleischmann told me he has had the problem for a long time. I'm outraged, how could you be so insensitive to reveal in a public forum personal health details that someone told you!!! Me thinks this touches an emotional 'button' for both Jed and ABD... And that comment Jed made about Steve making a mountain out of a molehill... Perhaps you should revisit these posts in a week or two, and then ask yourself who over-reacted. -Mark -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 3:36 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Fleischmann On a completely personal note, I would not want to give the impression that I have Parkinson's. I have no idea what it is, and neither do the doctors. They call it essential tremor, where essential is medical jargon meaning 'built-in, always there,' or 'we don't have a clue what causes it.' There are many possible causes. On the other hand, Parkinson's runs in the family and my deceased relatives had the same kind of symptoms at my age, so it is a good bet that I do. You have to die of something and Parkinson's is not a bad way to go. Because it was free, I took part in a neurological medical study at Emory U. The doctors measured this and that and poked me with needles. They did not seem alarmed. They confirmed there is a problem but it is mild and requires no treatment. They said the best way to find out exactly what's wrong would be with an autopsy, but I would prefer not to undergo that just yet. No doubt it will get worse with age. I know from experience that exercise reduces the problem, and they confirmed that. Fleischmann told me he has had the problem for a long time. So did my mother, and others I have known who had it. - Jed No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 06:35:00
[Vo]: including ALL the physics...
This sort of thing makes me wonder about scientists, or the scientific 'process'... For those of you more familiar with the details of atomic/molecular physics, can you please explain why you would even think that the magnetic orientation/properties of copper atoms in covalent bonds would be anything like in isolated copper atoms??? http://www.rdmag.com/Materials-Fuller-physics-helps-solve-materials-mystery/?wnnvz=cIpb87iV1KLyC3Pk -- quote from the article --- When making comparisons between experiment and calculation, we, and others, were often finding discrepancies that were then being explained away as systematic errors, imperfections in the samples, or other effects, said Professor Perring. But there are only so many times you can ignore these factors before you have to work out why they are there. The answer in the end was as straightforward as MAKING SURE TO INCLUDE ALL THE PHYSICS. [my emphasis] Calculations previously had been based on copper atoms being isolated; the correct shape of the magnetism of copper atoms when part of a covalent bond had not been taken into account. Copper-oxygen-copper bonds are a common feature of the copper oxide ceramic family, with the atomic level magnetism arising from the arrangement of electrons on each copper atom. Their bonding causes the spin distribution of the electrons to be changed quite dramatically from what would be found on a single isolated copper atom. -- -Mark No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 06:35:00
Re: [Vo]:those more knowledgeable, please chip in
hi steve.. well, so far it seems that allmagnetics have done a really poor photoshop job: http://www.allmagnetics.com/images/device/probe3.gif look very carefully as to where the steorn logo-type and text would be. http://www.steorn.com/images/lab-hallprobe01.jpg yep. smudged. the question, of course is, if you buy this device at 390usd from allmagnetics, and buy the device at roughly 280eur from steorn, will both have the steorn stickers? i read that the u.k. distributors of the hall-probe have not smudged out the steorn logo + texts. so maybe the u.s. distributors are just a bit timid and scared. On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.comwrote: So who do you think is more probably the liar here? Steorn, or the other guy? Esa Ruoho wrote: ok, whats going on? steorn launched the usb hall probe at some point in time, sure. i checked, its 289euro from their site. i cant buy it, cos it'd be pretty close to me getting something that i could actually use every day (like software plugins + outboard midi gear, etc) -- but what i was wondering was this: look at the steorn website imagery on the hall probe: http://www.steorn.com/steornlab/hall-probe/ then look at the allmagnetics website about a .. very similar looking usb hall probe. http://www.allmagnetics.com/device/probe.htm its the same thing, or so it seems, with either the steorn logo + software branding taken out, orthen its the original, that steorn bought +licensed or something, and slapped their logo on the probe, the casing, and the software. i dont really know what all of this is supposed to mean, there's no mention of steorn on the allmagnetics website. any of you happen to know anythin more?
