Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
At 04:07 PM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: Dear Abd, I am starting the weekend rush to write my great editorial for the issue no 396 of my wekly newsletter Info Kappa ( I am working for an American Romanian ISP UPC Romania) The subject is primitive and I will use much of the book Caveman Logic But other things too. By the way, I like very much what your littel dughter has said it is bright and I will quote it in a future issue. I will ask you to tell your daughter;s name and how do you want the idea should presented. It is a great example of the wisdom of children. Her name is Birtukan Simone Lomax, Birtukan, meaning Orange, being the name she had from her first family, and Simon being her grandfather's name, which we feminized so she could keep it and not seem weird. She was born into the Kamabata tribe, and is now learning to speak, in addition to excellent English, Mandarin Chinese, and assuming that all continues on track, she'll be native speaker fluent and literate in English and Chinese by the eighth grade. We wish we could give her that in her native language, Kambatigna, but, unfortunately, there are no resources here, but Chinese could be very useful in Ethiopia if she decides to go back when she grows up, China is the number one investor in Ethiopia. She's also advanced beyond her years in athletics, she taught herself to swing on monkey bars at about four years old, she kept doing it, occasionally falling, and picking herself up and trying again, until she got it down cold . She got blisters on her hands and did not stop. She applies the same energy to learning the violin. Her sister, two years older, is still ahead, but has to work to keep there! (Her sister, from China, is spectacular all on her own, but today is Birtukan's story.) I'm not releasing photographs, but she has tribal markings that would allow someone knowledgeable to tell where she is from, and she is seriously beautiful. Can you guess that I'm proud of my daughter? She is also, as you might guess, as willful as they come, she can be a handful. She cannot be broken. It's my job to help her figure out how to cooperate with others when they want one thing and she wants something else. She's on track, I'd say. I wouldn't change a thing about her, and I'm blessed to have her in my life. At 65.
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Dear Abd, Thank you! I will quote Birtukan as soon as I am writing about some positive concept- not as now. I perfectly understand your love and happiness given by your daughters. It is wonderful to help them and to see how brave and nice they are. I had a very tragical history with my son Robert born in 1968 who got encephalitis and was autistic and mentally retarded and you perhaps know how were treated such children in the communist Romania so we have kept him at home. He died from cancer in 1999, after more dreadful surgeries. My daughter Antonia, born in 1972 is OK a chemist and has three children- a boy and two girls- all strong persomalities, illuminating my sunset. Please convey my best regards to your daughters- if sometimes they will have some websearch problem, I am ready and prepared to help them. And I hope they will enjoy the marvel of classical and opera music...we are trying the same with our grandchildren. Back to my newsletter... Peter I don't know much about Ethiopia, except its history, was the Queen of Saba from there? I remember that I have collaborated with a Jugoslavian specialist Hrkalovic who was the Negus's bodyguard and told me a lot of stories. On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 5:18 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote: At 04:07 PM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: Dear Abd, I am starting the weekend rush to write my great editorial for the issue no 396 of my wekly newsletter Info Kappa ( I am working for an American Romanian ISP UPC Romania) The subject is primitive and I will use much of the book Caveman Logic But other things too. By the way, I like very much what your littel dughter has said it is bright and I will quote it in a future issue. I will ask you to tell your daughter;s name and how do you want the idea should presented. It is a great example of the wisdom of children. Her name is Birtukan Simone Lomax, Birtukan, meaning Orange, being the name she had from her first family, and Simon being her grandfather's name, which we feminized so she could keep it and not seem weird. She was born into the Kamabata tribe, and is now learning to speak, in addition to excellent English, Mandarin Chinese, and assuming that all continues on track, she'll be native speaker fluent and literate in English and Chinese by the eighth grade. We wish we could give her that in her native language, Kambatigna, but, unfortunately, there are no resources here, but Chinese could be very useful in Ethiopia if she decides to go back when she grows up, China is the number one investor in Ethiopia. She's also advanced beyond her years in athletics, she taught herself to swing on monkey bars at about four years old, she kept doing it, occasionally falling, and picking herself up and trying again, until she got it down cold . She got blisters on her hands and did not stop. She applies the same energy to learning the violin. Her sister, two years older, is still ahead, but has to work to keep there! (Her sister, from China, is spectacular all on her own, but today is Birtukan's story.) I'm not releasing photographs, but she has tribal markings that would allow someone knowledgeable to tell where she is from, and she is seriously beautiful. Can you guess that I'm proud of my daughter? She is also, as you might guess, as willful as they come, she can be a handful. She cannot be broken. It's my job to help her figure out how to cooperate with others when they want one thing and she wants something else. She's on track, I'd say. I wouldn't change a thing about her, and I'm blessed to have her in my life. At 65.
[Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Jones wrote on 3-27-10: ... there is no need for a liquid if we can dispense with electrolysis. IMHO this is probably a significant way in which LENR is maturing ... -- gas phase. Why not? There is little advantage to electrolysis as it actually hinders loading. The ~4:1 loading ratio of Arata (D:Pd) has been confirmed numerous times by independent experimenters. Efforts are underway from a few of those experimenters (at least one, anyway) to increase the low delta-T of A-Z by means of other energy input. That is obviously the way to proceed, as commercialization will demand a useable spread ... The easiest way to move beyond A-Z would be high voltage, but coherent light would certainly be interesting. --- Horace Heffner wrote on 3-27-10: High temperature cell operation is clearly necessary to achieve practical Carnot efficiencies. --- A Commentator wrote: *Cold fusion.* Fusion, i.e., the production of higher weight nuclei from lower weight ones, at low temperatures instead of at the high ones thought necessary. Non-thermonuclear fusion. Neutron-catalyzed? Okay, maybe. But what does that have to do with whether it's fusion or not? - Another Commentator wrote: The sanest position here is no position. There is helium, and it's correlated at roughly the value for deuterium to helium conversion -- let's call that fusion, okay? --- Horace Heffner wrote on 3-23-10: The term in question I think is nuclear fusion. There are many definitions which do not mention the Coulomb barrier. However, it appears plasma fusion is often assumed. - Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: And the reason is obvious. Almost all known fusion is plasma, thermonuclear fusion. A.k.a. the brute force method. In the ACS press briefing, Peter Hagelstein called this kind of fusion vacuum reactions which I think is a good term. Regarding words and the definition of cold fusion, I would like to remind readers that Humpty Dumpty was fundamentally right: [Source: Through the Looking Glass] `I don't know what you mean by glory,' Alice said. Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' `But glory doesn't mean a nice knock-down argument,' Alice objected. `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.' Hi All, 3-27-10 The discussion of the definition of cold fusion is fascinating. I find Humpty's position somewhat extreme, but not beyond the means of practical implementation, as pointed out in 1984, and as demonstrated by the effective financing of propaganda from the insurance companies during the recent health law debate. Thomas Hobbes' position is more to my taste: Words are counters; and wise men only reckon with them; but they are the money of fools. The lazy-thinking thought in my mind is that cold fusion takes place at standard temperatue and pressure; but obviously that does not provide enough difference between heat source and heat sink to do useful work, which is a pessimistic position that should be rejected (would someone kindly give me another snapshot thought to define cold fusion?) Where I really have a problem is 'plasma fusion.' ``Almost all known fusion is plasma, thermonuclear fusion. Peter Hagelstein called this kind of fusion vacuum reactions ...'' ``The term in question I think is nuclear fusion. ... it appears plasma fusion is often assumed.'' Is it possible to have room temperature and low pressure plasma cold fusion reactions? I can imagine cold fusion in space when deuterium encounters the right nanoparticles and is converted to helium. Is the background helium concentration a measure of this activity? If most of the universe exists as plasma, as suggested by Hannes Alfvén, could there be a lot of natural cold fusion going on? Jack Smith -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannes_Alfv%C3%A9n Hannes Alfvén - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ``Hannes Olof Gösta Alfvén (born 30 May 1908 in Norrköping, Sweden; died 2 April 1995 in Djursholm, Sweden) was a Swedish electrical engineer, plasma physicist and winner of the 1970 Nobel Prize in Physics for his work on magnetohydrodynamics (MHD). He was originally trained as an electrical power engineer and later moved to research and teaching in the fields of plasma physics and electrical engineering. Alfvén made many contributions to plasma physics, including theories describing the behavior of aurorae, the Van Allen radiation belts, the effect of magnetic storms on the Earth's magnetic field, the terrestrial magnetosphere, and the dynamics of plasmas in the Milky Way galaxy.''
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
At 04:42 PM 3/26/2010, Horace Heffner wrote: We should not shrink from looking in the mirror! We have only begun to scratch the surface of a very large parameter space. Huge, truly enormous parameter space. Scary parameter space, compared to the much simpler space of plasma fusion. Messy, hard to control, with practically infinite variables. We are just playing with some pebbles on a beach. Still.
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
On Mar 27, 2010, at 11:25 AM, Taylor J. Smith wrote: Is it possible to have room temperature and low pressure plasma cold fusion reactions? If the results of Claytor et al. are considered cold fusion, then the answer is probably yes. Claytor used a low pressure gas regime, involving charged hydrogen species, and thus plasma, but the electrostatic energy involved would better be called warm. Too hot to be called cold and too cold for thermonuclear fusion. Similar things might be said regarding experiments by Storms and others that used much lower voltages than Claytor, on the order of hundreds of volts rather than thousands, yet still not cold in comparison to room temperature. Then there are high voltage electrolysis experiments that cover the range up to over 1 keV, and involve plasma, but are also far from room temperature. All the above types of cold or warm fusion involve surface effects, so could not rightly be called plasma fusion. I can imagine cold fusion in space when deuterium encounters the right nanoparticles and is converted to helium. Is the background helium concentration a measure of this activity? Background helium is primarily from alpha decay, e.g. radon. If most of the universe exists as plasma, as suggested by Hannes Alfvén, could there be a lot of natural cold fusion going on? Jack Smith There may be cold fusion going on inside the earth. Out in the vacuum of space, it is hot fusion. Inside stars, there are a variety of processes at work, some undoubtedly not yet discovered. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
At 01:53 PM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: First of all- thank you! I also think that somewhere we have to get rid of palladium and replace it with something cheaper and more abundent, And is a provocative and/or nasty assertion that now we still do not understnd the science? We don't understand the science. We don't understand the science. We don't understand the science. Finding reactions that don't involve palladium is obviously of great interest. It's just not where I can start. I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, and I can only go where they go, so far. Someone has a simple, cheap experiment that can be done and that produces striking and reliable results, I'll be all ears. Right now, striking is neutrons, and reliability seems likely, for a codep approach with a gold cathode. The neutrons are of no practical significance, to my understanding. They are present at incredibly low levels, such that they must be from secondary reactions, possibly hot fusion. I think we might be looking at one energetic neutron per minute or the like. That is easily distinguisable from background if the capture surface of a solid-state nuclear track detector is small, close to the active region, and the cross-section for observable interactions is high enough, which apparently it is from the published work. I can also detect slow neutrons, using a B-10 conversion screen, not sure I'll look for them initially.
[Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Can you help him? Thanks! Sure. Make it 0.1 mm thick and double the surface area. T
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Nice to hear from you, Terry. The trouble is that 0.1 mm is too thin, Pd overheats, melts- losses, problems etc. Can you calculate the surface temperature of the metal at a heat release of 100 Watts per square centimenter? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Hi, Peter-in-the-grave :) Since CF is a surface effect, how about plating just a few microns of Pd onto some cheaper metal? 2010/3/26 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com: Nice to hear from you, Terry. The trouble is that 0.1 mm is too thin, Pd overheats, melts- losses, problems etc. Can you calculate the surface temperature of the metal at a heat release of 100 Watts per square centimenter? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Thank you for calling CF a surface effect, perhaps we have to add that it is a local effect, only separate point like active sites generate the heat. Unfortunately micron thin layers evaoprate immediately- can you imagine how much is 100W.sq.cm? And can you tell me a single* real example of heat excess obtained with such layers in the Pd/D2O system?* I have not lied when I was alive, should strat do it now? Should I give non-usable examples, advices to my grandson??? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Michel Jullian michelj...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Peter-in-the-grave :) Since CF is a surface effect, how about plating just a few microns of Pd onto some cheaper metal? 2010/3/26 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com: Nice to hear from you, Terry. The trouble is that 0.1 mm is too thin, Pd overheats, melts- losses, problems etc. Can you calculate the surface temperature of the metal at a heat release of 100 Watts per square centimenter? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Why would a micron thin layer evaporate if it's plated on a heat conducting metal ?? 100W/cm2 is not that much really, it's roughly what the tip of my soldering iron dissipates happily, even though it's in air rather than in water. An example of a thin Pd layer that works? I coudn't even give you an example of a thick one that works with certainty! Michel 2010/3/26 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com: Thank you for calling CF a surface effect, perhaps we have to add that it is a local effect, only separate point like active sites generate the heat. Unfortunately micron thin layers evaoprate immediately- can you imagine how much is 100W.sq.cm? And can you tell me a single real example of heat excess obtained with such layers in the Pd/D2O system? I have not lied when I was alive, should strat do it now? Should I give non-usable examples, advices to my grandson??? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Michel Jullian michelj...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Peter-in-the-grave :) Since CF is a surface effect, how about plating just a few microns of Pd onto some cheaper metal? 2010/3/26 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com: Nice to hear from you, Terry. The trouble is that 0.1 mm is too thin, Pd overheats, melts- losses, problems etc. Can you calculate the surface temperature of the metal at a heat release of 100 Watts per square centimenter? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
RE: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
From: Peter Gluck * And can you tell me a single real example of heat excess obtained with such layers in the Pd/D2O system? No . but . the Arata-Zhang system uses nanometer sized spheres of Ni-Pd alloy, embedded in zirconia. It is stable over extended periods in a heated deuterium gas. The small alloy spheres are way, way below micron geometry - but probably would not work in a liquid, true. But there is no need for a liquid if we can dispense with electrolysis. IMHO this is probably a significant way in which LENR is maturing mature - gas phase. Why not? There is little advantage to electrolysis as it actually hinders loading. The ~4:1 loading ratio of Arata (D:Pd) has been confirmed numerous times by independent experimenters. Efforts are underway from a few of those experimenters (at least one, anyway) to increase the low delta-T of A-Z by means of other energy input. That is obviously the way to proceed, as commercialization will demand a useable spread, even if advanced TEGs become available. The easiest way to move beyond A-Z would be high voltage, but coherent light would certainly be interesting. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Imagine a 2kWh heater with a surface of 20 sq.cm. Quite intense... On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Michel Jullian michelj...@gmail.comwrote: Why would a micron thin layer evaporate if it's plated on a heat conducting metal ?? 100W/cm2 is not that much really, it's roughly what the tip of my soldering iron dissipates happily, even though it's in air rather than in water. An example of a thin Pd layer that works? I coudn't even give you an example of a thick one that works with certainty! Michel 2010/3/26 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com: Thank you for calling CF a surface effect, perhaps we have to add that it is a local effect, only separate point like active sites generate the heat. Unfortunately micron thin layers evaoprate immediately- can you imagine how much is 100W.sq.cm? And can you tell me a single real example of heat excess obtained with such layers in the Pd/D2O system? I have not lied when I was alive, should strat do it now? Should I give non-usable examples, advices to my grandson??? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Michel Jullian michelj...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Peter-in-the-grave :) Since CF is a surface effect, how about plating just a few microns of Pd onto some cheaper metal? 2010/3/26 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com: Nice to hear from you, Terry. The trouble is that 0.1 mm is too thin, Pd overheats, melts- losses, problems etc. Can you calculate the surface temperature of the metal at a heat release of 100 Watts per square centimenter? On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
He's gonna need more Pd. In 2008, the world consumption of all types of power averaged 1.504 x 10^13 W. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption At 2.4 x 10^-3 g/W, he would need 3.61 x 10^10 g of Pd (plus about 2% growth per year) or about 36,000 metric tonnes. And he would need really good batteries to flatten out the load. :-) T On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
At 06:00 AM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. This is indeed my seat-of-the-pants conclusion as to the palladium approach, unless the reaction rate can be greatly increased. At current prices I did a detailed calculation (a few scribbles on a napkin) that an Arata-effect cold fusion hot water heater might be done for, oh, neglecting development costs, $100,000. Someone might buy it for the novelty. The catalyst would probably need reprocessing from time to time, and that might cost as much as the value of the energy. As has been pointed out, we have a crackerjack operating hot fusion reactor sitting at a nice safe distance, the sun, and we can capture and harness the energy being emitted from it. But ... this analysis assumes palladium catalysis. It's not the only possibility. Vyosotskii's work is intriguing. What if proteins can pull this off? What if we could grow reactors instead of manufacturing them? They might be extremely cheap. This brings me to the main point: we need to understand the science. The experimental facts must be nailed down, we need solid, reproducible results, and aiming for practical power levels has probably kept this field back, overall. Electrolysis with palladium is interesting to me because it's the most widely replicated, and because it's easily accessible with codeposition. It takes only a tiny amount of palladium chloride; the expensive part of the experiment is the heavy water. I'm not looking for cheap energy, I'm looking for science and cheap replication of experiments, so that they become, even in a highly skeptical environment, widely replicated. I'm trying to help build a foundation, and to thus stimulate more work on theory and the testing of theory. Because of the possible fabulous wealth and glory, perhaps, too much work was done too soon on scaling up, trying to find the magic formula for a reactor for energy production. There is certainly a place for that. But to get to practical power production, as was emphasized in the ACS press conference, we need to understand the science. Probably we need to understand it first, unless someone gets very, very lucky and happens across some technique. It's more likely that someone comes up with an accurate theory and predicts high energy yield with, say, nickel under such and such conditions. In other words, that science leads, the part of the scientific process that develops theory. And that's based on knowledge of the experimental work, and the existence of a body of work that explores the parameter space, as they were saying. That's relatively boring, plodding work, compared to Solving the Energy Problems of Mankind. Of course, it could end up doing just that. But, really, do we have, for example, solid measures of how deuterium concentration affects excess heat? Not just endpoints. What I've seen, sometimes, is H2 vs D2, presumably pure or H2 at normal isotopic ratio. What happens in between? From my point of view, I'd like to try a silver wire, plated with gold, as a cathode, for codeposition. Much cheaper. I'd expect it to be the same results as gold. Would it be? It's one of the things I expect to try. (Note: I'm looking for neutrons, not excess heat, at this point. Gold wouldn't be better than palladium, particularly, as to expense, but there is a lot more gold in the world.) So: how does the reaction rate vary with the thickness of the gold, all other variables being equal? I could do my own electroplating of gold, to create silver wires with various thicknesses. Various theories might suggest various simple variations. What happens if I dope the electrolyte for codeposition with some beryllium chloride? Or preplate a beryllium layer? Any effect? Countless experiments become possible once there are standard cells, and as long as they produce results well above background (two orders of magnitude is probably enough, even lower could be useful), I don't need to scale up and if the results are robust enough, I can scale down, making it cheaper. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks! I'll try. How old is he now? These kits, unless I fall victim to my constant vulnerability to distraction, should be available this year. I should have results within a few months. So ... Rich Murray suggested I should sell them for $200, not the $100 I expect (single heavy water cell, everything ready for current to be supplied, includes SSNTDs but not development of them). $100 includes a reasonable profit, and, with some work and volume, I can lower the costs, I expect. I expect to be working with a nonprofit (and the whole business might be sold to a nonprofit) to help subsidize kits. Assuming they work. If they don't work, back to the drawing board and, I
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
You are perfectly right. The problem is that this not so friendly, moderately rich, Planet has much less palladium, we will be forced to import some thousands tonnes from other places. By the way, if you consult the news, you'll see that there are great problems in the electronic industry because other rare elements, the lantanides are scarce. It's a reason for Triumph to not like its image in the mirror. On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: He's gonna need more Pd. In 2008, the world consumption of all types of power averaged 1.504 x 10^13 W. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption At 2.4 x 10^-3 g/W, he would need 3.61 x 10^10 g of Pd (plus about 2% growth per year) or about 36,000 metric tonnes. And he would need really good batteries to flatten out the load. :-) T On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: A bit of realistic sci-fi.. January 6, 2028- my grandson who was educated in the spirit of new energy, cold fusion is wonderful - has succeeded to work out the perfectly reproducible energy generating method. In the frame of a Pd - D2O system. He is a respected citizen and as it is almost compulsory in the New Moneytheistic society- a billionaire. He calls the Chief Economist of his company: Mark, please buy the reserves of palladium any gram you can we are going to conquer the world of energy, to replace any dirty fossil fuel.. you see itis winter and it is so warm... In two weeks the economist succeeds to buy 150 tonnes of palladium. a real wizard. My grandson's system releases 100 W per 1 sq.cm of palladium, which is in the form of a thin layer of 0.2 millimetres i.e 1 x 0.02 x 12 = 0.24 grams. It is now simple to calculate that if 0.24 g. give a power of 100 W, 200,000,000 g. will give- 8.4 10 exp 10 W or 8.4 10 exp 7 kW. in a more pragmatical language 84 millions of kWatts Or 84,000 MWatts. (US consumes now appr. 270,000 MWatts electricity) Next step- how many kWatts is Mankind consuming. Oh not so much, we are clever and are back at the value of 2008. But this value is a bit greater-than what can CF give He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask him to do better mathematics and use the best data. Can you help him? Thanks!
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
First of all- thank you! I also think that somewhere we have to get rid of palladium and replace it with something cheaper and more abundent, And is a provocative and/or nasty assertion that now we still do not understnd the science? Should we repeat the 2005 survey? It seems that the Ni based Piantelli system works, both at the author and at Rossi and Co. It is not cold fusion but it generates heat. At a proper temperatures. That's fine. Re your question, my grandson will be 8 years old next month and his talent for scientific research is more than obvious. He will inherit the problems we could not solve yet. I wish you success with your strategy and research program. On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote: At 06:00 AM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: He concludes: the CF system can contribute but cannot conquer the market of energy. This is indeed my seat-of-the-pants conclusion as to the palladium approach, unless the reaction rate can be greatly increased. At current prices I did a detailed calculation (a few scribbles on a napkin) that an Arata-effect cold fusion hot water heater might be done for, oh, neglecting development costs, $100,000. Someone might buy it for the novelty. The catalyst would probably need reprocessing from time to time, and that might cost as much as the value of the energy. As has been pointed out, we have a crackerjack operating hot fusion reactor sitting at a nice safe distance, the sun, and we can capture and harness the energy being emitted from it. But ... this analysis assumes palladium catalysis. It's not the only possibility. Vyosotskii's work is intriguing. What if proteins can pull this off? What if we could grow reactors instead of manufacturing them? They might be extremely cheap. This brings me to the main point: we need to understand the science. The experimental facts must be nailed down, we need solid, reproducible results, and aiming for practical power levels has probably kept this field back, overall. Electrolysis with palladium is interesting to me because it's the most widely replicated, and because it's easily accessible with codeposition. It takes only a tiny amount of palladium chloride; the expensive part of the experiment is the heavy water. I'm not looking for cheap energy, I'm looking for science and cheap replication of experiments, so that they become, even in a highly skeptical environment, widely replicated. I'm trying to help build a foundation, and to thus stimulate more work on theory and the testing of theory. Because of the possible fabulous wealth and glory, perhaps, too much work was done too soon on scaling up, trying to find the magic formula for a reactor for energy production. There is certainly a place for that. But to get to practical power production, as was emphasized in the ACS press conference, we need to understand the science. Probably we need to understand it first, unless someone gets very, very lucky and happens across some technique. It's more likely that someone comes up with an accurate theory and predicts high energy yield with, say, nickel under such and such conditions. In other words, that science leads, the part of the scientific process that develops theory. And that's based on knowledge of the experimental work, and the existence of a body of work that explores the parameter space, as they were saying. That's relatively boring, plodding work, compared to Solving the Energy Problems of Mankind. Of course, it could end up doing just that. But, really, do we have, for example, solid measures of how deuterium concentration affects excess heat? Not just endpoints. What I've seen, sometimes, is H2 vs D2, presumably pure or H2 at normal isotopic ratio. What happens in between? From my point of view, I'd like to try a silver wire, plated with gold, as a cathode, for codeposition. Much cheaper. I'd expect it to be the same results as gold. Would it be? It's one of the things I expect to try. (Note: I'm looking for neutrons, not excess heat, at this point. Gold wouldn't be better than palladium, particularly, as to expense, but there is a lot more gold in the world.) So: how does the reaction rate vary with the thickness of the gold, all other variables being equal? I could do my own electroplating of gold, to create silver wires with various thicknesses. Various theories might suggest various simple variations. What happens if I dope the electrolyte for codeposition with some beryllium chloride? Or preplate a beryllium layer? Any effect? Countless experiments become possible once there are standard cells, and as long as they produce results well above background (two orders of magnitude is probably enough, even lower could be useful), I don't need to scale up and if the results are robust enough, I can scale down, making it cheaper. He visits my grave and has a long imaginary discussion with me. I ask
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
At 11:27 AM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: Yes, nanotechnology surely will have a great role. And electrolysis is -in this case a generator of technological nightmares, we have to get rid of it. Definitely messy. I wouldn't rule it out, though. But gas phase seems more likely. I'm not working with it because the level of materials science is horrific. If I could buy the material, I might go there. Remember, I want kits or something simple. A CO2 cylinder with some of the material in it, pressurized with D2. You get, with it, the temperature profile shown as it was loaded and sealed. You feel it. It's warm. It stays warm. For a long time. But 3000 minutes probably isn't, that's only 50 hours. The Arata results show no decline in temperature at 50 hours, so I don't really know. As Jed has pointed out, Arata is frustrating. We are starting to get independent work that is more fully disclosed. The cost of that little cylinder is unknown at this point, because it's not just the palladium (there was 7 g of palladium in one of Arata's cells, it's highly processed and for all I can tell, the processing may be more expensive than the palladium.) A gas phase system is a must, heat generated 100 deg Celsius is low quality energy, 180-200 deg Celsius is OK, you can convert it in electricity via steam. Actually, hot water heater temperature is fine for direct heating, well below 100 C. Say 60 degrees? Central electrical power station, bad idea for this. Direct heating is a major consumer of energy. This is the reason for disappointment that Leslie Case's process has fizzled out. In my 1991 Topology is the key paper I have predicted it, but it has died. Lacking imagination, I think it was poisoned.. Could be. However, I'm not sure. It's like a lot of things in this field, there are many, many loose ends, caused by people varying the hell out of what they were doing, hoping to get lucky.
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: It's like a lot of things in this field, there are many, many loose ends, caused by people varying the hell out of what they were doing, hoping to get lucky. That is exactly what they were doing. And what's worse -- far worse! -- is that they were not doing the variations I recommended. How many times have I told the Ni-H people to throw in some heavy water?!? Do they listen? No. Like many others in this field, such as -- Oh, I don't know, some guy whose initials are S. K. and that fellow with the super-calorimeter -- I feel that researchers should drop what they are doing, change their theories, and generally do as I say, because I have no hands-on experience and no qualifications. I'm just sayin'. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Triumph looks in the mirror
Dear Abd, I am starting the weekend rush to write my great editorial for the issue no 396 of my wekly newsletter Info Kappa ( I am working for an American Romanian ISP UPC Romania) The subject is primitive and I will use much of the book Caveman Logic But other things too. By the way, I like very much what your littel dughter has said it is bright and I will quote it in a future issue. I will ask you to tell your daughter;s name and how do you want the idea should presented. It is a great example of the wisdom of children. Best wishes, Peter PS. If to be intelligent is the ability to work with scarce, redundant, contradictory, partilly false data than CF is the place where we can exercise intelligence. It will be simply chaotic only after two steps of radical improvement. But, to quote myself The unique ambition of the Universe is to be interesting. I had a discussion with Freeman Dyson re the priority of this idea and we have discovered it independently. On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.comwrote: At 11:27 AM 3/26/2010, Peter Gluck wrote: Yes, nanotechnology surely will have a great role. And electrolysis is -in this case a generator of technological nightmares, we have to get rid of it. Definitely messy. I wouldn't rule it out, though. But gas phase seems more likely. I'm not working with it because the level of materials science is horrific. If I could buy the material, I might go there. Remember, I want kits or something simple. A CO2 cylinder with some of the material in it, pressurized with D2. You get, with it, the temperature profile shown as it was loaded and sealed. You feel it. It's warm. It stays warm. For a long time. But 3000 minutes probably isn't, that's only 50 hours. The Arata results show no decline in temperature at 50 hours, so I don't really know. As Jed has pointed out, Arata is frustrating. We are starting to get independent work that is more fully disclosed. The cost of that little cylinder is unknown at this point, because it's not just the palladium (there was 7 g of palladium in one of Arata's cells, it's highly processed and for all I can tell, the processing may be more expensive than the palladium.) A gas phase system is a must, heat generated 100 deg Celsius is low quality energy, 180-200 deg Celsius is OK, you can convert it in electricity via steam. Actually, hot water heater temperature is fine for direct heating, well below 100 C. Say 60 degrees? Central electrical power station, bad idea for this. Direct heating is a major consumer of energy. This is the reason for disappointment that Leslie Case's process has fizzled out. In my 1991 Topology is the key paper I have predicted it, but it has died. Lacking imagination, I think it was poisoned.. Could be. However, I'm not sure. It's like a lot of things in this field, there are many, many loose ends, caused by people varying the hell out of what they were doing, hoping to get lucky.
