RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Western philosophy is more successful than eastern. Try reading Joseph Needham and see what went wrong in China. Science is objective, people really *do know* *facts*. I feel no regret for what I have said because it is *fact*. I feel the need to take on what I perceive as destroying society and most of all what I love, science. Now, when you're old and grey and it's all crumbling around you just what did you do? How did you help? Blah, blah, blah and psychobabble to the stuff below. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 19:11 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Another unfortunate side effect of collecting a lot of opinions is the inevitable tendency of ending up having to defend all those collected opinions. It's as if all those complex and sophisticated opinions have been set in place as armor to obfuscate a vague and uneasy awareness that deep down inside one's Inner-Most Psyche one fears the possibility that one doesn't have a clue as to how the universe really works, and facing that possibility is just too terrifying to even acknowledge.
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
>> From: Terry Blanton >> >> Perhaps you should "know" less. I recommend a 30 day retreat in a >> Buddhist monastery. > >> Terry > From Remi Cornwall > > Why, wanna shut me away for speaking my mind?? > Mr. Cornwall, FWIW, Ah, the right to speak one's mind. Well You seem to know a lot of things. At least it seems to me that you've been spending a lot of time lately on Vortex-l revealing to the vortex masses your personal opinions on a plethora of subjects. Truth be known, I've been guilty of occasionally spouting my own personal philosophies on this forum as well, so who am I to judge the pontifications of others when I have done the dirty deed myself. Nevertheless, a useful tool to acquire when one feels moved to post another collection of personal revelations for the benefit of the masses is knowing when one is actually posting something useful versus when one is just pontificating just to see one's writing in print. Another unfortunate side effect of collecting a lot of opinions is the inevitable tendency of ending up having to defend all those collected opinions. It's as if all those complex and sophisticated opinions have been set in place as armor to obfuscate a vague and uneasy awareness that deep down inside one's Inner-Most Psyche one fears the possibility that one doesn't have a clue as to how the universe really works, and facing that possibility is just too terrifying to even acknowledge. I suspect that may have been behind Terry's recent Buddhist-like suggestion that you might actually benefit a tad by practicing a form of self-awareness which ironically involves a little less of the opinion making variety, and a little more of what one could call the art of simple awareness of one's immediate surroundings - without immediately passing any opinionated judgments on what one is perceiving. Setting all those opinions aside on occasion is at the core of many eastern-like practices, like Buddhism, where the master teaches the student how to rediscover the core of who and what one really is. As for me, Grasshopper is still learning that art. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Run as fast as you want...but drive within the speed limit. harry - Original Message - From: Remi Cornwall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, September 22, 2008 12:18 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? > Yeah John, f.ck yeah! > > I know people who are gay, black, white, muslim, jew, disabled, > old. I'm no > bigot. I help the weak and go out of my way to be a gentle-man. > > I know what works and why - I know a woman can't do a fireman's > carry of > someone over 15 stone for 200 yrds, I know that that's why you > won't find > women in the marines, paras or special forces. > > I know that men have an edge in track and field and there again > that those > of West African decent have more fast twitch muscles, but then > again over 26 > miles women start edging forward again and may actually better at > the men in > extreme endurance (mmmh, the future of spaceflight could be in the > realm of > women - same brains for the task, less weight). > > I know that more often that not, that boys are difficult to teach > and get in > trouble but then they *create*. Doesn't mean girls don't it just > statistically more likely. In fact with a weak old, mutation prone Y > chromosome men are the best or worse of cases. > > I know that Orientals and Jews are more likely to excel at > mathematicalsciences. I don't kid myself with politically correct > science; they have old > civilisations that favour gene selection for scholasticism and > strong family > and community structures too. > > I know that Africans do very well in school because of their strong > familystructure but are now generally dumbing down when exposed to > Caribbeanculture for all the bastardization and despair that group > has suffered. > > I know welfare and state medical care does good work but then again > strongfamilies and communities and a healthy lifestyle would reduce > the budget but > that would be perceived as 'paternalism'. > > I know the personality profile of those who become CEOs and I know > what eats > out the soul of those in the labour conference at Manchester who > say "more > taxation! nationalise energy production! ban City bonuses, no more fat > cats!" in that they could only rise to a high position in life, > withouttalent, by rabble rousing. > > Then again I know what makes those on the old right tick in denying > opportunity for all with ability because they want to hold on to the > hegemony or the stupid greed of the stockbroker short selling but > generatingno *net* wealth. > > I don't think I'm gifted in these observations but I am brave and > won't pin > my colours to any mast and respect those who don't as well. > > I'd like less political parties and more independent thinkers in > cabinet.Although there is chain of command, I don't associate being > educated with > being slavish. > > > -Original Message- > From: John Steck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 22 September 2008 16:38 > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? > > Men of the future? Balls. It seems like most men of today under > 40 in the > US. That's why movies like '300' resonate with men so much. We > pine for > the days when men were allowed to be men, expected to be men, and > were > admired when they were. We can feel in our bones that we are not > being true > > to our natural instincts, our place in the food chain. > > Not to jump in the way-back machine, rap a towel around my head, > and forego > deodorant altogether, but this is the double edged sword of the > pendulum > swing. In our 'enlightened' well intentioned (although highly > socialistic) > efforts to equalize outcome for all without conflicts of any kind, > we have > compromised the very socioeconomic backbone of that allows the very > luxury > of that largess. It is the harbinger of doom of every great > society > throughout history. > > Remi, the talent hasn't gone. It's been surgically removed at > home, at > work, in public. To lament the outcome of our own self destructive > behavior > 'for the greater good' is laughable. In a foot race for survival, > how much > sympathy should someone get who voluntarily hits themselves in the > foot with > > a hammer because the person next to them can't (or refuses) to run > as fast? > That is not 'enlightenment' that's mental illness. > > -john > > > -- > From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Men of the future will be pathetic cowards, gagged, neutered, > metro-sexual > > and inadequate. Then people will start saying, "What's happened, > people > > used > > to be so effective, things used to get done around here. Where's > the > > talent > > gone?" The answer: being sued or worse. > > > > >
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
I'll take market instability and un-equal wealth distribution any day over these guys... -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 17:51 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Perhaps you should "know" less. I recommend a 30 day retreat in a Buddhist monastery.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Whoa, creepy. Would that be the "Soviet re-education labour torture camp of love for selfish thinker to love fellow socialist comrades." Stalin: "I wish the people had one big neck so I could strangle them more easily. Labour union delegate today: "Tax the super-rich out of existence". Waaay too creepy. -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 17:51 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Perhaps you should "know" less. I recommend a 30 day retreat in a Buddhist monastery. Terry Saved by Zero On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Remi Cornwall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah John, f.ck yeah! > > I know people who are gay, black, white, muslim, jew, disabled, old. I'm no > bigot. I help the weak and go out of my way to be a gentle-man. > > I know what works and why - I know a woman can't do a fireman's carry of > someone over 15 stone for 200 yrds, I know that that's why you won't find > women in the marines, paras or special forces. > > I know that men have an edge in track and field and there again that those > of West African decent have more fast twitch muscles, but then again over 26 > miles women start edging forward again and may actually better at the men in > extreme endurance (mmmh, the future of spaceflight could be in the realm of > women - same brains for the task, less weight). > > I know that more often that not, that boys are difficult to teach and get in > trouble but then they *create*. Doesn't mean girls don't it just > statistically more likely. In fact with a weak old, mutation prone Y > chromosome men are the best or worse of cases. > > I know that Orientals and Jews are more likely to excel at mathematical > sciences. I don't kid myself with politically correct science; they have old > civilisations that favour gene selection for scholasticism and strong family > and community structures too. > > I know that Africans do very well in school because of their strong family > structure but are now generally dumbing down when exposed to Caribbean > culture for all the bastardization and despair that group has suffered. > > I know welfare and state medical care does good work but then again strong > families and communities and a healthy lifestyle would reduce the budget but > that would be perceived as 'paternalism'. > > I know the personality profile of those who become CEOs and I know what eats > out the soul of those in the labour conference at Manchester who say "more > taxation! nationalise energy production! ban City bonuses, no more fat > cats!" in that they could only rise to a high position in life, without > talent, by rabble rousing. > > Then again I know what makes those on the old right tick in denying > opportunity for all with ability because they want to hold on to the > hegemony or the stupid greed of the stockbroker short selling but generating > no *net* wealth. > > I don't think I'm gifted in these observations but I am brave and won't pin > my colours to any mast and respect those who don't as well. > > I'd like less political parties and more independent thinkers in cabinet. > Although there is chain of command, I don't associate being educated with > being slavish. > > > -Original Message- > From: John Steck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 22 September 2008 16:38 > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? > > Men of the future? Balls. It seems like most men of today under 40 in the > US. That's why movies like '300' resonate with men so much. We pine for > the days when men were allowed to be men, expected to be men, and were > admired when they were. We can feel in our bones that we are not being true > > to our natural instincts, our place in the food chain. > > Not to jump in the way-back machine, rap a towel around my head, and forego > deodorant altogether, but this is the double edged sword of the pendulum > swing. In our 'enlightened' well intentioned (although highly socialistic) > efforts to equalize outcome for all without conflicts of any kind, we have > compromised the very socioeconomic backbone of that allows the very luxury > of that largess. It is the harbinger of doom of every great society > throughout history. > > Remi, the talent hasn't gone. It's been surgically removed at home, at > work, in public. To lament the outcome of our own self destructive behavior > > 'for the greater good' is laughable. In a foot race for survival, how much > sympathy should someone get who voluntarily hits themse
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Why, wanna shut me away for speaking my mind?? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 17:51 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Perhaps you should "know" less. I recommend a 30 day retreat in a Buddhist monastery. Terry
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Perhaps you should "know" less. I recommend a 30 day retreat in a Buddhist monastery. Terry Saved by Zero On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Remi Cornwall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah John, f.ck yeah! > > I know people who are gay, black, white, muslim, jew, disabled, old. I'm no > bigot. I help the weak and go out of my way to be a gentle-man. > > I know what works and why - I know a woman can't do a fireman's carry of > someone over 15 stone for 200 yrds, I know that that's why you won't find > women in the marines, paras or special forces. > > I know that men have an edge in track and field and there again that those > of West African decent have more fast twitch muscles, but then again over 26 > miles women start edging forward again and may actually better at the men in > extreme endurance (mmmh, the future of spaceflight could be in the realm of > women - same brains for the task, less weight). > > I know that more often that not, that boys are difficult to teach and get in > trouble but then they *create*. Doesn't mean girls don't it just > statistically more likely. In fact with a weak old, mutation prone Y > chromosome men are the best or worse of cases. > > I know that Orientals and Jews are more likely to excel at mathematical > sciences. I don't kid myself with politically correct science; they have old > civilisations that favour gene selection for scholasticism and strong family > and community structures too. > > I know that Africans do very well in school because of their strong family > structure but are now generally dumbing down when exposed to Caribbean > culture for all the bastardization and despair that group has suffered. > > I know welfare and state medical care does good work but then again strong > families and communities and a healthy lifestyle would reduce the budget but > that would be perceived as 'paternalism'. > > I know the personality profile of those who become CEOs and I know what eats > out the soul of those in the labour conference at Manchester who say "more > taxation! nationalise energy production! ban City bonuses, no more fat > cats!" in that they could only rise to a high position in life, without > talent, by rabble rousing. > > Then again I know what makes those on the old right tick in denying > opportunity for all with ability because they want to hold on to the > hegemony or the stupid greed of the stockbroker short selling but generating > no *net* wealth. > > I don't think I'm gifted in these observations but I am brave and won't pin > my colours to any mast and respect those who don't as well. > > I'd like less political parties and more independent thinkers in cabinet. > Although there is chain of command, I don't associate being educated with > being slavish. > > > -Original Message- > From: John Steck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 22 September 2008 16:38 > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? > > Men of the future? Balls. It seems like most men of today under 40 in the > US. That's why movies like '300' resonate with men so much. We pine for > the days when men were allowed to be men, expected to be men, and were > admired when they were. We can feel in our bones that we are not being true > > to our natural instincts, our place in the food chain. > > Not to jump in the way-back machine, rap a towel around my head, and forego > deodorant altogether, but this is the double edged sword of the pendulum > swing. In our 'enlightened' well intentioned (although highly socialistic) > efforts to equalize outcome for all without conflicts of any kind, we have > compromised the very socioeconomic backbone of that allows the very luxury > of that largess. It is the harbinger of doom of every great society > throughout history. > > Remi, the talent hasn't gone. It's been surgically removed at home, at > work, in public. To lament the outcome of our own self destructive behavior > > 'for the greater good' is laughable. In a foot race for survival, how much > sympathy should someone get who voluntarily hits themselves in the foot with > > a hammer because the person next to them can't (or refuses) to run as fast? > That is not 'enlightenment' that's mental illness. > > -john > > > -- > From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Men of the future will be pathetic cowards, gagged, neutered, metro-sexual >> and inadequate. Then people will start saying, "What's happened, people >> used >> to be so effective, things used to get done around here. Where's the >> talent >> gone?" The answer: being sued or worse. > > > > >
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Yeah John, f.ck yeah! I know people who are gay, black, white, muslim, jew, disabled, old. I'm no bigot. I help the weak and go out of my way to be a gentle-man. I know what works and why - I know a woman can't do a fireman's carry of someone over 15 stone for 200 yrds, I know that that's why you won't find women in the marines, paras or special forces. I know that men have an edge in track and field and there again that those of West African decent have more fast twitch muscles, but then again over 26 miles women start edging forward again and may actually better at the men in extreme endurance (mmmh, the future of spaceflight could be in the realm of women - same brains for the task, less weight). I know that more often that not, that boys are difficult to teach and get in trouble but then they *create*. Doesn't mean girls don't it just statistically more likely. In fact with a weak old, mutation prone Y chromosome men are the best or worse of cases. I know that Orientals and Jews are more likely to excel at mathematical sciences. I don't kid myself with politically correct science; they have old civilisations that favour gene selection for scholasticism and strong family and community structures too. I know that Africans do very well in school because of their strong family structure but are now generally dumbing down when exposed to Caribbean culture for all the bastardization and despair that group has suffered. I know welfare and state medical care does good work but then again strong families and communities and a healthy lifestyle would reduce the budget but that would be perceived as 'paternalism'. I know the personality profile of those who become CEOs and I know what eats out the soul of those in the labour conference at Manchester who say "more taxation! nationalise energy production! ban City bonuses, no more fat cats!" in that they could only rise to a high position in life, without talent, by rabble rousing. Then again I know what makes those on the old right tick in denying opportunity for all with ability because they want to hold on to the hegemony or the stupid greed of the stockbroker short selling but generating no *net* wealth. I don't think I'm gifted in these observations but I am brave and won't pin my colours to any mast and respect those who don't as well. I'd like less political parties and more independent thinkers in cabinet. Although there is chain of command, I don't associate being educated with being slavish. -Original Message- From: John Steck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 16:38 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Men of the future? Balls. It seems like most men of today under 40 in the US. That's why movies like '300' resonate with men so much. We pine for the days when men were allowed to be men, expected to be men, and were admired when they were. We can feel in our bones that we are not being true to our natural instincts, our place in the food chain. Not to jump in the way-back machine, rap a towel around my head, and forego deodorant altogether, but this is the double edged sword of the pendulum swing. In our 'enlightened' well intentioned (although highly socialistic) efforts to equalize outcome for all without conflicts of any kind, we have compromised the very socioeconomic backbone of that allows the very luxury of that largess. It is the harbinger of doom of every great society throughout history. Remi, the talent hasn't gone. It's been surgically removed at home, at work, in public. To lament the outcome of our own self destructive behavior 'for the greater good' is laughable. In a foot race for survival, how much sympathy should someone get who voluntarily hits themselves in the foot with a hammer because the person next to them can't (or refuses) to run as fast? That is not 'enlightenment' that's mental illness. -john -- From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Men of the future will be pathetic cowards, gagged, neutered, metro-sexual > and inadequate. Then people will start saying, "What's happened, people > used > to be so effective, things used to get done around here. Where's the > talent > gone?" The answer: being sued or worse.
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Men of the future? Balls. It seems like most men of today under 40 in the US. That's why movies like '300' resonate with men so much. We pine for the days when men were allowed to be men, expected to be men, and were admired when they were. We can feel in our bones that we are not being true to our natural instincts, our place in the food chain. Not to jump in the way-back machine, rap a towel around my head, and forego deodorant altogether, but this is the double edged sword of the pendulum swing. In our 'enlightened' well intentioned (although highly socialistic) efforts to equalize outcome for all without conflicts of any kind, we have compromised the very socioeconomic backbone of that allows the very luxury of that largess. It is the harbinger of doom of every great society throughout history. Remi, the talent hasn't gone. It's been surgically removed at home, at work, in public. To lament the outcome of our own self destructive behavior 'for the greater good' is laughable. In a foot race for survival, how much sympathy should someone get who voluntarily hits themselves in the foot with a hammer because the person next to them can't (or refuses) to run as fast? That is not 'enlightenment' that's mental illness. -john -- From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Men of the future will be pathetic cowards, gagged, neutered, metro-sexual and inadequate. Then people will start saying, "What's happened, people used to be so effective, things used to get done around here. Where's the talent gone?" The answer: being sued or worse.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Dunno ask the captain on that one. He sailed the ship and we trusted him. But I don't want the 'rats' to take over the sinking ship. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 15:40 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Where does the road paved with bad intentions go ? Iraq? Jones BTW -does anyone else suspect that a few weekend postings somehow do not end up in the archives? ... or is there a normal delay on Monday?
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Where does the road paved with bad intentions go ? Iraq? Jones BTW -does anyone else suspect that a few weekend postings somehow do not end up in the archives? ... or is there a normal delay on Monday?
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Yeah, who's 'right'? -Original Message- From: Michel Jullian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 15:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? " The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Remember that those on the left." Of course those on the right aren't concerned, they don't have enough material to pave a road with ;)
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
" The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Remember that those on the left." Of course those on the right aren't concerned, they don't have enough material to pave a road with ;)
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Yes, yes, yes, Talent in the future will be seen as a disease. Something to have meds prescribed for and controlled. Dangerous enemies of the state who need to be watched 24-7. Dissidents. "You have dangerous thoughts comrade, why you always wanna go against what big brother say?" -Original Message- From: Remi Cornwall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 15:14 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Plato's republic had it - kill all the artists. i.e. if you feel threatened by dangerous thoughts, kill all the thinkers. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Remember that those on the left.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Oh yeah, George Michael, forgot him, 'fine example': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7627636.stm -Original Message- From: Remi Cornwall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 15:06 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Yes the pressure of society to make people conform is a form of fascism. I advise techie youngster types to be very careful in their social dabbling because with silly laws it's now very easy for a young man to get accused of harassment (just for say, going to a canteen for lunch and *being there*) or worse if he takes a girl back to his place and she gets drunk (after the fact) and accuses him of 'acquaintance rape' just for being awkward and misreading the signs. Or if he mouths off anything political and makes enemies some weedy types will hatch a conspiracy with their word against yours. Just think of the disruption to his career whilst an investigation is carried out and he is suspended over some dippy attention seeking woman. And it's always the man's fault. I've seen this happen to colleagues. I guess that's why a lot of men don't like the troublesome Hillary Clinton types. Men of the future will be pathetic cowards, gagged, neutered, metro-sexual and inadequate. Then people will start saying, "What's happened, people used to be so effective, things used to get done around here. Where's the talent gone?" The answer: being sued or worse. So less Edison, Tesla, Newton, Faraday, Einstein more Russell Brand, Jonathon Ross, Elton John. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 14:32 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Remi Cornwall wrote: > > Let's have a game of listing people: My personal favorite genius: Isaac Newton -- Total nutjob. Suffered from severe obsessive compulsive disorder, which made a mess of his life -- he rarely went out, and was understandably not comfortable around other people due to his problems with, among other things, going through doorways. *** BUT NOTE *** OCD comes with an interesting side effect, which is the ability to "obsess" over just about anything ... in other words it provides one with the gift of amazing powers of concentration. I suspect very strongly that this had a lot to do with his ability to solve problems nobody else could, and it probably was one of the capabilities with aided him in constructing the calculus. Suppose Newton were alive today, in the first world (US, Canada, Europe). He would be diagnosed, he would be treated; he would probably be put on Prozac or one of its relatives. Based on what I know of treatment for OCD, he would *probably* be a much happier person. **BUT** his ability to sit and obsess about something for hours, days, or as long as it took to see his way through it would be destroyed. If we had had modern medicine in the time of Isaac Newton, he would probably never have developed the calculus, because he would have been "cured" of his mathematical ability along with his problems. Just my two cents
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Plato's republic had it - kill all the artists. i.e. if you feel threatened by dangerous thoughts, kill all the thinkers. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Remember that those on the left.
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Interesting... maybe what is needed by today's researchers is a pill _triggering_ obsessive compulsive disorder ;-) Michel 2008/9/22 Stephen A. Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > Remi Cornwall wrote: >> >> Let's have a game of listing people: > > My personal favorite genius: > > Isaac Newton -- Total nutjob. Suffered from severe obsessive compulsive > disorder, which made a mess of his life -- he rarely went out, and was > understandably not comfortable around other people due to his problems > with, among other things, going through doorways. > > *** BUT NOTE *** OCD comes with an interesting side effect, which is the > ability to "obsess" over just about anything ... in other words it > provides one with the gift of amazing powers of concentration. I > suspect very strongly that this had a lot to do with his ability to > solve problems nobody else could, and it probably was one of the > capabilities with aided him in constructing the calculus. > > Suppose Newton were alive today, in the first world (US, Canada, > Europe). He would be diagnosed, he would be treated; he would probably > be put on Prozac or one of its relatives. Based on what I know of > treatment for OCD, he would *probably* be a much happier person. > **BUT** his ability to sit and obsess about something for hours, days, > or as long as it took to see his way through it would be destroyed. > > If we had had modern medicine in the time of Isaac Newton, he would > probably never have developed the calculus, because he would have been > "cured" of his mathematical ability along with his problems. > > Just my two cents > >
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Yes the pressure of society to make people conform is a form of fascism. I advise techie youngster types to be very careful in their social dabbling because with silly laws it's now very easy for a young man to get accused of harassment (just for say, going to a canteen for lunch and *being there*) or worse if he takes a girl back to his place and she gets drunk (after the fact) and accuses him of 'acquaintance rape' just for being awkward and misreading the signs. Or if he mouths off anything political and makes enemies some weedy types will hatch a conspiracy with their word against yours. Just think of the disruption to his career whilst an investigation is carried out and he is suspended over some dippy attention seeking woman. And it's always the man's fault. I've seen this happen to colleagues. I guess that's why a lot of men don't like the troublesome Hillary Clinton types. Men of the future will be pathetic cowards, gagged, neutered, metro-sexual and inadequate. Then people will start saying, "What's happened, people used to be so effective, things used to get done around here. Where's the talent gone?" The answer: being sued or worse. So less Edison, Tesla, Newton, Faraday, Einstein more Russell Brand, Jonathon Ross, Elton John. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2008 14:32 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Remi Cornwall wrote: > > Let's have a game of listing people: My personal favorite genius: Isaac Newton -- Total nutjob. Suffered from severe obsessive compulsive disorder, which made a mess of his life -- he rarely went out, and was understandably not comfortable around other people due to his problems with, among other things, going through doorways. *** BUT NOTE *** OCD comes with an interesting side effect, which is the ability to "obsess" over just about anything ... in other words it provides one with the gift of amazing powers of concentration. I suspect very strongly that this had a lot to do with his ability to solve problems nobody else could, and it probably was one of the capabilities with aided him in constructing the calculus. Suppose Newton were alive today, in the first world (US, Canada, Europe). He would be diagnosed, he would be treated; he would probably be put on Prozac or one of its relatives. Based on what I know of treatment for OCD, he would *probably* be a much happier person. **BUT** his ability to sit and obsess about something for hours, days, or as long as it took to see his way through it would be destroyed. If we had had modern medicine in the time of Isaac Newton, he would probably never have developed the calculus, because he would have been "cured" of his mathematical ability along with his problems. Just my two cents
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Remi Cornwall wrote: > > Let's have a game of listing people: My personal favorite genius: Isaac Newton -- Total nutjob. Suffered from severe obsessive compulsive disorder, which made a mess of his life -- he rarely went out, and was understandably not comfortable around other people due to his problems with, among other things, going through doorways. *** BUT NOTE *** OCD comes with an interesting side effect, which is the ability to "obsess" over just about anything ... in other words it provides one with the gift of amazing powers of concentration. I suspect very strongly that this had a lot to do with his ability to solve problems nobody else could, and it probably was one of the capabilities with aided him in constructing the calculus. Suppose Newton were alive today, in the first world (US, Canada, Europe). He would be diagnosed, he would be treated; he would probably be put on Prozac or one of its relatives. Based on what I know of treatment for OCD, he would *probably* be a much happier person. **BUT** his ability to sit and obsess about something for hours, days, or as long as it took to see his way through it would be destroyed. If we had had modern medicine in the time of Isaac Newton, he would probably never have developed the calculus, because he would have been "cured" of his mathematical ability along with his problems. Just my two cents
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
- Original Message - From: "Remi Cornwall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You sure? Tesla was a very good student and analytical. Feynman started out as an electrical engineer (1 year at MIT) before switching over. As a boy he used to fix radios and was very good a safe cracking when on the Manhattan project. Feyman didn't reall crack safes. At Los Alamos, file cabinets were shipped with combination locks set at the factory to a standard combination. The user could reset the combination to one of his choice. Many were too lazy to do so. So Feynman opened a few with the factory combination and embarassed a number of staff by doing so. No real "harm" done. Mike Carrell -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 September 2008 21:50 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? For that unusual combination - I would say Luis Alvarez may have been a true singularity in physics - although a few others come close. Tesla was weak in math; and Feynman was clumsy enough that he was lucky not to have been charged with an unintentional homicide. This Email has been scanned for all viruses by Medford Leas I.T. Department.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
You sure? Tesla was a very good student and analytical. Feynman started out as an electrical engineer (1 year at MIT) before switching over. As a boy he used to fix radios and was very good a safe cracking when on the Manhattan project. -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 September 2008 21:50 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? For that unusual combination - I would say Luis Alvarez may have been a true singularity in physics - although a few others come close. Tesla was weak in math; and Feynman was clumsy enough that he was lucky not to have been charged with an unintentional homicide.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Ed, But when comes the point when you know you're probably right on something and then start sacrificing principles? Take man-made global warming, is it not better to quietly and constructively keep pushing the arguments and look for new technology? The field has become infested with journalists, amateurs, liberal art dilettantes or Gore/Bono/Geldof types who think the process of science is shouting down people and character assassinating them much as they did in politics and any social issues from education to marriage to the third world to welfare to etc. etc. "You don't agree with me, then you're an idiot or evil". It won't work in science because it is factual, especially engineering science. Science shouldn't be done by statistical analysis, vox-pop or celebrity endorsement. All that happens is the opposition get more entrenched. Hence the Top Gear show I posted. It's a well known boyish dig at PCness, the liberal elite BBC and po-faceness that is why it is the BBC's number one program. I tell you too that is why there is such a sub-culture of non-PC jokes on the internet being told, in the end at several levels of the ironic, by non-bigots. Adults don't like being dictated to. Win environmental debates by giving people better technology and not bankrupting them with high fuel prices (supply and demand theory unless it's a cartel) or ranting at them then, eventually monkey will see monkey will do. (I'm just watching a comic going on about how to get kids to eat greens. Apparently you flatter them - "you use to love them when you were small", "so and so eats them") I'm convinced that some environmentalists are anti-technology, feudal medieval aristocrats with romantic notions of us (all of us) living as noble savages apart from Earl Muck of F..k in his castle. Then the empty vessels minions are on the government gravy train with no intention of delivery anything apart from reports and data on the "lesser spotted dick weed butterfly and global warming" (more data to beat the unbelievers with you see). Anyway I've posted enough. I want to read other contributions and other topics. I'll stay silent for a bit. -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 September 2008 21:40 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Remi, you need to take into account what works. If telling the truth and being objective and rational got a person elected, more politicians would have these qualities. If the people voting were educated and rational, better leaders would be elected. The present system is the result of a bad combination of these limitations. As for innovation, it has no effect on society if the person does not know how to put the idea into the system. Many people are quietly innovative in their personal lives, but make no effort to change society. You only know about those people who had the skill or wish to get noticed. Ed On Sep 20, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Remi Cornwall wrote: > Education is important but being scholarly doesn't well correlate to > being > innovative. Too many people make this mistake. > > Inventors are typically lazy and eclectic. By switching off in class > and not > doing prep they tend to half learn things and come up with their own > systems. It is a very male trait. Maybe this is why men have the > advantage > because we are so arrogant, competitive and risk takers, the > opposite of > blue stocking types. The cocksureness of the new recruit who on day > one can > see how to do something better. Most are f..k.g annoying d.cks but > the good > ones are an asset once you get over the personality. > > The very diligent tend to end up hyper-specialized and writing the > reference > books. There is probably good correlation between elder siblings, > diligence > and a more controlling type personality and the more happy-go-lucky, > rebellious younger ones. > > Also the more autistic type, or single child, non city dwelling type > tend to > be those people tinkering away, focused and disinterested with > social play > and games. > > Let's have a game of listing people: > > Edison (single child) > Tesla (driven, focused, bachelor) > Einstein (probably mild autism) > The Wright Brothers (technical knowhow) > Dirac (very intense) > But then > Feynman, Heisenberg very gregarious. (You see science doesn't only > list the > cases in its favour, you must list all the data) > > Please list more and list their attributes. > > The point being that these people don't like meetings, call a spade > a spade > (i.e. non PC, likely to get in trouble in today's climate), are > independent, > skillfu
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Remi, Let's have a game of listing people: Edison (single child) Tesla (driven, focused, bachelor) Einstein (probably mild autism) The Wright Brothers (technical knowhow) Dirac (very intense) But then Feynman, Heisenberg very gregarious. Freeman Dyson said of Feynman that he was "half-genius, half-buffoon"... but later revised it to "all-genius, all-buffoon". Such a thin balance on the edge of sanity -- for the top of the list - wow - not sure you would want to clone any of them for fear the slightest changed circumstance could turn them into a Frankenscientist ;-) Of all of these geniuses, none had both the highest level of math and theoretical skills, combined with the highest level of manual skills (to build working devices of the highest caliber). For that unusual combination - I would say Luis Alvarez may have been a true singularity in physics - although a few others come close. Tesla was weak in math; and Feynman was clumsy enough that he was lucky not to have been charged with an unintentional homicide.
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Remi, you need to take into account what works. If telling the truth and being objective and rational got a person elected, more politicians would have these qualities. If the people voting were educated and rational, better leaders would be elected. The present system is the result of a bad combination of these limitations. As for innovation, it has no effect on society if the person does not know how to put the idea into the system. Many people are quietly innovative in their personal lives, but make no effort to change society. You only know about those people who had the skill or wish to get noticed. Ed On Sep 20, 2008, at 1:54 PM, Remi Cornwall wrote: Education is important but being scholarly doesn't well correlate to being innovative. Too many people make this mistake. Inventors are typically lazy and eclectic. By switching off in class and not doing prep they tend to half learn things and come up with their own systems. It is a very male trait. Maybe this is why men have the advantage because we are so arrogant, competitive and risk takers, the opposite of blue stocking types. The cocksureness of the new recruit who on day one can see how to do something better. Most are f..k.g annoying d.cks but the good ones are an asset once you get over the personality. The very diligent tend to end up hyper-specialized and writing the reference books. There is probably good correlation between elder siblings, diligence and a more controlling type personality and the more happy-go-lucky, rebellious younger ones. Also the more autistic type, or single child, non city dwelling type tend to be those people tinkering away, focused and disinterested with social play and games. Let's have a game of listing people: Edison (single child) Tesla (driven, focused, bachelor) Einstein (probably mild autism) The Wright Brothers (technical knowhow) Dirac (very intense) But then Feynman, Heisenberg very gregarious. (You see science doesn't only list the cases in its favour, you must list all the data) Please list more and list their attributes. The point being that these people don't like meetings, call a spade a spade (i.e. non PC, likely to get in trouble in today's climate), are independent, skillful, resourceful, logical, proud, against the superficial. In short your populist politico and the people they appeal to are the polar opposite. Using science to tell lies goes against the grain of these people. Many think man-made global warming is still a hypothesis. Sure take on board its suggestions make provision but don't call it fact.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Education is important but being scholarly doesn't well correlate to being innovative. Too many people make this mistake. Inventors are typically lazy and eclectic. By switching off in class and not doing prep they tend to half learn things and come up with their own systems. It is a very male trait. Maybe this is why men have the advantage because we are so arrogant, competitive and risk takers, the opposite of blue stocking types. The cocksureness of the new recruit who on day one can see how to do something better. Most are f..k.g annoying d.cks but the good ones are an asset once you get over the personality. The very diligent tend to end up hyper-specialized and writing the reference books. There is probably good correlation between elder siblings, diligence and a more controlling type personality and the more happy-go-lucky, rebellious younger ones. Also the more autistic type, or single child, non city dwelling type tend to be those people tinkering away, focused and disinterested with social play and games. Let's have a game of listing people: Edison (single child) Tesla (driven, focused, bachelor) Einstein (probably mild autism) The Wright Brothers (technical knowhow) Dirac (very intense) But then Feynman, Heisenberg very gregarious. (You see science doesn't only list the cases in its favour, you must list all the data) Please list more and list their attributes. The point being that these people don't like meetings, call a spade a spade (i.e. non PC, likely to get in trouble in today's climate), are independent, skillful, resourceful, logical, proud, against the superficial. In short your populist politico and the people they appeal to are the polar opposite. Using science to tell lies goes against the grain of these people. Many think man-made global warming is still a hypothesis. Sure take on board its suggestions make provision but don't call it fact.
RE: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Yes moving on from the comments of Jones and Tex the biggest problem is NIH (not invented here). I say if you have a massively subsidized state sector, then big business doesn't want to know because "surely the best and brightest are already on the case with our tax money". Big physics has skewed the market. And oh dear, the LHC in CERN has shut down for two months because the magnets failed. Quick, quick, get it working again! Damn, it's so urgent to know what happened probably 13billion years ago or then in several billion at the big crunch. Once again the power mad, suppressive personality types love the state, even over rising to the top in big business because they can then stultify everything or make hypothesis look like fact. Then there are the empty vessels just following them. Keep politicians out of science it's not a system where the truth is got by shouting enough to make people believe. It is impersonal and has no agenda, it simply is. The only choice is where we set our priorities in discoveries. Much discovery happened by philanthropy or personal input but if it is of commercial or national strategic importance then business and state step in respectively. -Original Message- From: R C Macaulay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 September 2008 18:34 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend? Howdy Jones, Back in the 1960's I sat across from man owned a 500 million control valve mfg business. He was in his 70's at the time.. He allowed he started it from scratch and now the leading mfg in it's category. I remarked that he should take some of the 500 mil , plus 5 of his brightest young minds in his company, move them to Dallas and design and build a radical new control valve. He was astounded and asked me why he would want tto create a competitor to his wonderful business? Answer is "if you don't somebody else will" I mentioned I was in constant contact with these bright guys and they felt he was holding them back. fast forward 45 years later.. nothing happened.. the 500 mil is gone and nothing to show for it but memories of "old times gone but not forgotten". Interesting the valve design idea I had offered and was rejected .. was recently picked up by one our people and "bingo" Rangrrr Valve Company is off and running. combined cost of startup.. $150 k. What was the idea? make a flow meter with thrrottling characteristics for extreme wide range flows.. how? by measuuring the valve position and not the flow. fun stuff. Dont tell me these auto company's lack brains and imagination in the ranks.. the problem is the head man. ask ole George Patton. My long time friend was his head motor sargeant.. Patton would come to him and tell him to make things happen regardless of what the officer corps said. They once built a bridge across a river by running 2 1/2 ton trucks in the creek until, they had a bridge for the battle tanks.. later everybody got court marshalled for the damage to the trucks. Richard Jones wrote, Interesting insight on the importance of the "tinkerer" and his resources. [think: the "Homebrew Computer Club" and similar idea-seeders: perhaps even Vortex on occasion] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/science/13make.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&sq=m aker%20faire%20&st=cse&scp=1&oref=slogin Also interesting: can this megatrend be taken to the next level by a company like GM, and possibly avoid nearly inevitable bankruptcy? Edward Tenner, an author and observer of the way that technology affects society, said "tinkering" had waxed and waned but never disappeared in American culture. A great deal of mechanical know-how, he said, came from people raised on farms, where they had to fix their own equipment. [think: Henry Ford and the early auto pioneers] But these days, he said, "this improvisation is starting to flourish in a mainly suburban and perhaps urban milieu." [think: Apple, Hewlett Packard, etc and now the new-energy] It is pretty clear the the $500 million that GM has already sunk into the Volt will pay off sometime in the next several decades, but could it have been done sooner, better -- or for much less cost - by encouraging smaller companies and even individual inventors to participate? As it stands now, in addition to what they have already spent, GM will be forced to buy any breakthrough which comes along at greatly inflated cost. Which is not to say that throwing money at a problem always results in a breakthrough ... but consider the oft-mentioned EEStor - which GM could have participated in, but declined. After all they have no real way to weed out the shysters: http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1517 Therefore - the proper strategy to stimulate the nearly unpredictable breakthrough, which is never guaranteed at any price, is much easier to
Re: [Vo]:Hidden Societal Megatrend?
Howdy Jones, Back in the 1960's I sat across from man owned a 500 million control valve mfg business. He was in his 70's at the time.. He allowed he started it from scratch and now the leading mfg in it's category. I remarked that he should take some of the 500 mil , plus 5 of his brightest young minds in his company, move them to Dallas and design and build a radical new control valve. He was astounded and asked me why he would want tto create a competitor to his wonderful business? Answer is "if you don't somebody else will" I mentioned I was in constant contact with these bright guys and they felt he was holding them back. fast forward 45 years later.. nothing happened.. the 500 mil is gone and nothing to show for it but memories of "old times gone but not forgotten". Interesting the valve design idea I had offered and was rejected .. was recently picked up by one our people and "bingo" Rangrrr Valve Company is off and running. combined cost of startup.. $150 k. What was the idea? make a flow meter with thrrottling characteristics for extreme wide range flows.. how? by measuuring the valve position and not the flow. fun stuff. Dont tell me these auto company's lack brains and imagination in the ranks.. the problem is the head man. ask ole George Patton. My long time friend was his head motor sargeant.. Patton would come to him and tell him to make things happen regardless of what the officer corps said. They once built a bridge across a river by running 2 1/2 ton trucks in the creek until, they had a bridge for the battle tanks.. later everybody got court marshalled for the damage to the trucks. Richard Jones wrote, Interesting insight on the importance of the "tinkerer" and his resources. [think: the "Homebrew Computer Club" and similar idea-seeders: perhaps even Vortex on occasion] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/13/science/13make.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&sq=maker%20faire%20&st=cse&scp=1&oref=slogin Also interesting: can this megatrend be taken to the next level by a company like GM, and possibly avoid nearly inevitable bankruptcy? Edward Tenner, an author and observer of the way that technology affects society, said "tinkering" had waxed and waned but never disappeared in American culture. A great deal of mechanical know-how, he said, came from people raised on farms, where they had to fix their own equipment. [think: Henry Ford and the early auto pioneers] But these days, he said, “this improvisation is starting to flourish in a mainly suburban and perhaps urban milieu.” [think: Apple, Hewlett Packard, etc and now the new-energy] It is pretty clear the the $500 million that GM has already sunk into the Volt will pay off sometime in the next several decades, but could it have been done sooner, better -- or for much less cost - by encouraging smaller companies and even individual inventors to participate? As it stands now, in addition to what they have already spent, GM will be forced to buy any breakthrough which comes along at greatly inflated cost. Which is not to say that throwing money at a problem always results in a breakthrough ... but consider the oft-mentioned EEStor - which GM could have participated in, but declined. After all they have no real way to weed out the shysters: http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1517 Therefore - the proper strategy to stimulate the nearly unpredictable breakthrough, which is never guaranteed at any price, is much easier to pinpoint in hindsight. For instance: Unlike some observers, I strongly feel that the EEStor thing is for real- and just going through the expected growing pains. The Wiki page is being continuously updated, and it seems that there must be an 'inside' source for this (probably at Lockheed). OTOH - if EEStor is high-level BS then this is the way a good viral marketer would work; so it is easy to see why there can be a valid difference of opinion. But as for the Megatrend itself - if this 'bettery' (bat-cap) technology does indeed work out as a major breakthrough - then yes it was essentially invented in the metaphorical silicon valley 'garage' by a couple of tinkerers, and then followed the VC model of getting into production quickly. Any car company could have gotten involved on the ground floor for $25 million now instead of several billion later. Which -- all things considered, IF one wanted to benefit and 'bootstrap' from this societal insight even further -- i.e. to up the stakes in megatrends to the next level, it would seem to be prudent for the successful car company of the future to operate more like the VC and less like the entrenched bureaucracy. so that instead of shunning outside innovation - they actually embrace the notion of "not invented here" and actually seek out the good 'tinkerers' proactively, and invest on the ground floor (even if most of them do not succeed). ... what is that pun-ny old truism about the quick and the dead?
