Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Dave, I think you have an underlying misconception. It isn't thermal energy that is being exploited, catalytic energy is related to Casimir geometry which in the case of nanotubes only occurs at openings and defects in the nanotube as recently discovered by Peng Chen at Cornell using an AFM. This establishes a relationship between catalytic action and change in Casimir force - geometry. It is a difference in vacuum energy density not temperature that feeds the reaction so you are not exhausting a thermal reservoir. IMHO this is why gas is a necessary part of the equation since relative motion of gas to the Casimir geometry is maintained by HUP. This is the same source of energy that keeps gas from becoming solid at absolute zero.. hence can be referred to as Zero Point Energy. The similarity between skeletal catalysts and the Casimir geometry of nano powders also supports this relationship. Within the context of the above relationship there can be no hydrino without Casimir geometry, as the hydrino or IRH diffuses out of the catalyst or nano powder it simply translates back to normal hydrogen. There would therefore be no hydrinos floating freely in the atmosphere and it remains an open question if di-hydrinos are even possible much less if their covalent bond could hold the hydrino in this catalyzed state outside of the catalyst. If Jan Naudts is correct about the hydrino / IRH being relativistic then one could say the hydrino only exists from a relativistic perspective and locally appears just like normal hydrogen. Most would say this kind of time dilation or equivalent acceleration is impossible in the confines of a bulk material sitting in a lab but we are conditioned to think in terms of a Pythagorean relationship with C to solve for gamma and I think suppression side steps this issue. Suppression reduces energy density instead of increasing it and instead of equivalent acceleration it affords equivalent de-acceleration. Regards Fran From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:37 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg Thank you for the response. The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal surroundings to do work. I can imagine some of that work being used to generate radiant energy that could then escape the system. This escaping energy would cause the local system to cool off. This technique sounds a lot like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. I guess that a similar process occurs when a dust cloud cools down by radiating heat energy. Is there any way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again? Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:35 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] That is the question that I would like to have answered. Would the hydrino be able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the atmosphere? If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available? Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms, whereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds. Furthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to come across a catalyst atom too. My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and then released. Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the thermal environment to be recycled. This sounds like a breech of the second law, but why not give it a try. :-) Dave I don't think so, though perhaps solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere might reconstitute them. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
You are correct Fran, I am confused about the hydrino theory. I think I understand that you imply that the hydrino can not exist outside of the nanotube structure. If this is true then it would not be possible to extract energy from the beast. Whatever you borrowed must be returned very soon. At least that is the way I understand thermodynamics. Does that theory actually allow energy to be taken from the vacuum? If so, I would like to understand that a lot better. Also, has anyone been able to extract energy this way and then do it again with the same hydrogen atom? I have a difficult time understanding that principle. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg Dave, I think you have an underlying misconception. It isn’t thermal energy that is being exploited, catalytic energy is related to Casimir geometry which in the case of nanotubes only occurs at openings and defects in the nanotube as recently discovered by Peng Chen at Cornell using an AFM. This establishes a relationship between catalytic action and change in Casimir force – geometry. It is a difference in vacuum energy density not temperature that feeds the reaction so you are not exhausting a thermal reservoir. IMHO this is why gas is a necessary part of the equation since relative mot ion of gas to the Casimir geometry is maintained by HUP. This is the same source of energy that keeps gas from becoming solid at absolute zero.. hence can be referred to as Zero Point Energy. The similarity between skeletal catalysts and the Casimir geometry of nano powders also supports this relationship. Within the context of the above relationship there can be no hydrino without Casimir geometry, as the hydrino or IRH diffuses out of the catalyst or nano powder it simply translates back to normal hydrogen. There would therefore be no hydrinos floating freely in the atmosphere and it remains an open question if di-hydrinos are even possible much less if their covalent bond could hold the hydrino in this catalyzed state outside of the catalyst. If Jan Naudts is correct about the hydrino / IRH being relativistic then one could say the hydrino only exists from a relativistic perspective and locally appears just like normal hydrogen. Most would say this kind of time dilation or equivalent acceleration is impossible in the confines of a bulk material sitting in a lab but we are conditioned to think in terms of a Pythagorean relationship with C to solve for gamma and I think suppression side steps this issue. Suppression reduces energy density instead of increasing it and instead of equivalent acceleration it affords equivalent de-acceleration. Regards Fran From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4:37 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg Thank you for the response. The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermaln bsp;surroundings to do work. I can imagine some of that work being used to generate radiant energy that could then escape the system. This escaping energy would cause the local system to cool off. This technique sounds a lot like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. I guess that a similar process occurs when a dust cloud cools down by radiating heat energy. Is there any way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again? Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:35 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] That is the question that I would like to have answered. Would the hydrino be able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the atmosphere? If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available? Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms, whereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds. Furthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to c me across a catalyst atom too. My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and then released. Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the thermal environment to be recycled. This sounds like a breech
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
From: francis [mailto:froarty...@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:36 PM To: 'dlrober...@aol.com' Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg Dave, You are getting to the heart of it quickly. First there is definitely energy present even at absolute zero gas will not become solid - and no one will dispute that gas motion is powered by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle BUT. we have always been taught that the energy is too chaotic and on too tiny of a scale for us to organize it. Mechanization is already at the macro scale and nature will always seek balance through the path of least resistance which is why stiction forces are so problematic in nano construction. nature wants the spectrum of virtual particle sizes to be uniform such that when conductive materials are thrown together in bulk the pieces self attract trying to close the gap between and return the spectrum to a uniform value [vacuum energy density]. If a gap does form the energy density is suppressed and gas atoms migrating through the gap transform from our perspective to different fractional values- And yes you are correct that if this proposal by Naudts is correct then it will exactly reverse upon exiting the gap with no change in energy level. This is where the conditions in these experiments must cause an asymmetry for there to be a net gain or loss. Haisch and Moddel suggest a Lamb Pinch while I propose that the IRH and Hydrino are actually normal hydrogen based on Naudts 2005 paper and therefore CAN take on the molecular form and that it is this choice of atomic and molecular bonding that provides us the opportunity to arrange an asymmetrical path. It is my posit that h1 translates to different fractional values freely while h2 has a covalent bond that opposes this translation. From our perspective the orbital appears smaller and perhaps is seen as a nearby electron while the proton appears much smaller and displaced like the rubber nose of a badminton birdie stretched ever more distant as the fractional value becomes smaller. When fractional h2 forms these nearby electrons form a hinge opposing the motive force of virtual particles on the paired protons. If I am correct this would form a natural self assembled HUP trap in that gas law motion is organized to discount the energy needed to disassociate the molecule. I think the signal generators and other forms of agitation described in this research are also necessary to synchronize the rectification or the force will simply push the molecules back in a direction that alleviates the discount. See http://psiphen.colorado.edu/Pubs/VacEnergyExtrac_Jan10.pdf Fran David Roberson Fri, 04 Nov 2011 13:47:03 -0700 You are correct Fran, I am confused about the hydrino theory. I think I understand that you imply that the hydrino can not exist outside of the nanotube structure. If this is true then it would not be possible to extract energy from the beast. Whatever you borrowed must be returned very soon. At least that is the way I understand thermodynamics. Does that theory actually allow energy to be taken from the vacuum? If so, I would like to understand that a lot better. Also, has anyone been able to extract energy this way and then do it again with the same hydrogen atom? I have a difficult time understanding that principle. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, Nov 4, 2011 3:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg Dave, I think you have an underlying misconception. It isn't thermal energy that is being exploited, catalytic energy is related to Casimir geometry which in the case of nanotubes only occurs at openings and defects in the nanotube as recently discovered by Peng Chen at Cornell using an AFM. This establishes a relationship between catalytic action and change in Casimir force - geometry. It is a difference in vacuum energy density not temperature that feeds the reaction so you are not exhausting a thermal reservoir. IMHO this is why gas is a necessary part of the equation since relative mot ion of gas to the Casimir geometry is maintained by HUP. This is the same source of energy that keeps gas from becoming solid at absolute zero.. hence can be referred to as Zero Point Energy. The similarity between skeletal catalysts and the Casimir geometry of nano powders also supports this relationship. Within the context of the above relationship there can be no hydrino without Casimir geometry, as the hydrino or IRH diffuses out of the catalyst or nano powder it simply translates back to normal hydrogen. There would therefore be no hydrinos floating freely in the atmosphere and it remains an open question if di-hydrinos are even possible much less
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to Danny Ross Lunsford's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:27:58 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. Angular momentum is conserved in Mills model. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:15:21 -0700: Hi, [snip] Lawandy also claims the electron is mirrored in an adjacent dielectric not orbital. Lawandy bases his concept upon the notion of a surface. However at the density he hopes to achieve, the spacing between positive charges is already much smaller than even a single atom, hence the concept of a surface no longer applies. (Note that at atomic distances no fusion happens anyway, unless perhaps by Horace's mechanism, or WL.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:15:21 -0700: Hi, [snip] When the electron is not bound in a periodic motion of some kind around the nucleus, there is NO orbital. This describes the case when ordinary QM applies. When there is no orbital there can be NO fractional orbital. Miley makes this clear. Mills most definitely does describe an orbital. Personally, I think both can be valid, but that the orbital case is (much?) less common. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:15:21 -0700: Hi, [snip] IOW yes there are electrons in the general vicinity, which balance the electrostatic charge of protons or deuterons, but according to Miley the electrons in IRH are not located in orbitals around the protons - which includes fractional orbitals. My apology if I have misread these papers. No, Miley would have the protons orbiting the electrons, rather like the tail wagging the dog. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:44:58 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere? Does it gain energy from the air and become standard hydrogen? I am just curious? I order to be small enough to qualify as IRH, each atom has to give up hundreds of eV of energy. In order to expand again, it would have to somehow reacquire that energy. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to Danny Ross Lunsford's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:46:34 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] Fractional Rydberg? That's nonsense too - this isn't chemistry, it's not electrons. It's nucleons. The key point is that nickel 62 is at the peak of the binding-energy-per-nucleon curve. Somehow I think a circular reaction is going on around the peak - call it fussion. Do you have a more concrete explanation than this hand waving? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 15:38:36 -0400: Hi, [snip] Somehow inverse Rydberg matter may be formed between and among these tubules with the help of the high pressure and temperature of the hydrogen envelop and the mediating action of an alkaline catalyst. When did we discover that the catalyst was alkaline? When all those electrons and protons that comprise a inverse Rydberg molecule are packed into the very small space between these surface tubules, this set of subatomic particles gain a lot of energy maybe from Zero Point Energy or just from the uncertainty principle. No, they lose a lot of energy (hundreds of eV / atom)! (Major reduction of the distance between positive and negative charges). There is nothing magical (ZPE) about this. This is probably the major source of energy in Rossi's reactor. Dr. George Miley shows in his experiments and also in the Rossi ash, Has Miley had an opportunity to analyze Rossi's ash? what comes out of this process is a zoo of other transmuted elements all up and down the periodic table. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Not yet -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Wed, 11/2/11, mix...@bigpond.com mix...@bigpond.com wrote: around the peak - call it fussion. Do you have a more concrete explanation than this hand waving?
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
That is the question that I would like to have answered. Would the hydrino be able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the atmosphere? If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available? My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and then released. Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the thermal environment to be recycled. This sounds like a breech of the second law, but why not give it a try. :-) Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:16 am Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 1 Nov 2011 13:44:58 -0400 (EDT): i, snip] Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen toms once it is released into the atmosphere? Does it gain energy from the air nd become standard hydrogen? I am just curious? order to be small enough to qualify as IRH, each atom has to give up hundreds f eV of energy. In order to expand again, it would have to somehow reacquire hat energy. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] That is the question that I would like to have answered. Would the hydrino be able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the atmosphere? If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available? Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms, whereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds. Furthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to come across a catalyst atom too. My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat pump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and then released. Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the thermal environment to be recycled. This sounds like a breech of the second law, but why not give it a try. :-) Dave I don't think so, though perhaps solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere might reconstitute them. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Thank you for the response. The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal surroundings to do work. I can imagine some of that work being used to generate radiant energy that could then escape the system. This escaping energy would cause the local system to cool off. This technique sounds a lot like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. I guess that a similar process occurs when a dust cloud cools down by radiating heat energy. Is there any way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again? Dave -Original Message- From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 3:35 pm Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:12:47 -0400 (EDT): i, snip] That is the question that I would like to have answered. Would the hydrino be ble to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the tmosphere? If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on arth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been available? Because in order to be catalyzed, they need to exist as individual atoms, hereas all the Hydrogen on Earth exists bound in chemical compounds. urthermore even when present as an atom, it still needs to come across a atalyst atom too. My main purpose for asking the question is to determine if some type of heat ump could be used where hydrogen is turned into hydrinos releasing heat and hen released. Then I was hoping that they would reacquire the energy from the hermal environment to be recycled. This sounds like a breech of the second aw, but why not give it a try. :-) Dave don't think so, though perhaps solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere might econstitute them. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
In reply to David Roberson's message of Wed, 2 Nov 2011 16:37:00 -0400 (EDT): Hi, [snip] Thank you for the response. The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal surroundings to do work. I can imagine some of that work being used to generate radiant energy that could then escape the system. This escaping energy would cause the local system to cool off. This technique sounds a lot like a violation of the laws of thermodynamics. I guess that a similar process occurs when a dust cloud cools down by radiating heat energy. Is there any way that we can verify that a process exists which will enable the hydrinos to absorb the hypothetical energy you discussed and emerge as hydrogen again? If you hit a Hydrino with another atom fast enough, it should be possible to ionize it, however this is much more difficult than ionizing a normal hydrogen atom, and the percentage of other atoms (at room temperature) that would have enough energy is incredibly small (vanishing tip of the Boltzmann tail). That's why I suggested solar x-rays in the upper atmosphere. Dave Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere? Does it gain energy from the air and become standard hydrogen? I am just curious? Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 1:41 pm Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Fractional Rydberg? That's nonsense too - this isn't chemistry, it's not electrons. It's nucleons. The key point is that nickel 62 is at the peak of the binding-energy-per-nucleon curve. Somehow I think a circular reaction is going on around the peak - call it fussion. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg To: vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:40 PM That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Hello Fran, I don`t understand your statement: Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. I thought Mills has always said that the hydrino = hydrogen in a fractional quantum state. BTW the continuum spectrum in discharges of H2 gas is 100% reproducible and has no known explanation. Peter van Noorden - Original Message - From: Roarty, Francis X To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 6:40 PM Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
I will remind the theorists among us again that Rossi states in his patent that copper can be used as a micro powder material as an alternative to nickel. This implies that the physical and/or chemical properties of Nickel are not critical to the Rossi reaction. Rossi has surveyed many other transition metals to support his reaction. He found that nickel performed the best but conversely the other transition metals work almost as well. Nano-engineering is all important in the Rossi process. This indicates to me that the nuclear and/or chemical properties of the micro-metal are not as important as the nano surface preparation of the micro-powder. In simple terms in my opinion, the topology of the nano-structures is what makes the Rossi reaction go. Rossi calls this topology tubules and spent six months working day and night to optimize this surface structure. The changing work functions of the varied polycrystalline structures of these tubules will break apart H2 into H. Somehow inverse Rydberg matter may be formed between and among these tubules with the help of the high pressure and temperature of the hydrogen envelop and the mediating action of an alkaline catalyst. When all those electrons and protons that comprise a inverse Rydberg molecule are packed into the very small space between these surface tubules, this set of subatomic particles gain a lot of energy… maybe from Zero Point Energy…or just from the uncertainty principle. Dr. George Miley shows in his experiments and also in the Rossi ash, what comes out of this process is a zoo of other transmuted elements all up and down the periodic table. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:44 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere? Does it gain energy from the air and become standard hydrogen? I am just curious? Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 1:41 pm Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. *From:* Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.comantimatte...@yahoo.com?] *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. *-- I write a little. I erase a lot. *- Chopin --- On *Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com*wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
The appropriate term is Inverse Rydberg states but “fractional Rydberg”states is the term Mills and Lu used to describe the hydrino in their paper http://www.blacklightpower.com/papers/Time-resolved%20paper.pdf from the introduction [snip] The product is H(1/P), fractional Rydberg states of atomic hydrogen called “hydrino atoms”,[/snip] It is unwise to discount chemistry as the bootstrap stage powering the nuclear reaction. From day 1 with the atomic welder it was clear something odd happens when hydrogen is disassociated by an arc between tungsten catalysts and then re-associates to weld [melt] metals all the way up to tungsten. Just because there is transmutation doesn’t mean that is the sole source of energy or that it is even the initial source of heat. There is not enough lead shielding for fusion to be occurring at a level that would explain the output of an e-cat. Other more exotic nuclear paths would be necessary to accomplish the task with the sort of shielding Rossi used and I am saying we already know there is something special about atomic hydrogen from it’s welding abilities.. heating it in a catalyst is a way to lower the energy needed to disassociate it into atomic form From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg Fractional Rydberg? That's nonsense too - this isn't chemistry, it's not electrons. It's nucleons. The key point is that nickel 62 is at the peak of the binding-energy-per-nucleon curve. Somehow I think a circular reaction is going on around the peak - call it fussion. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg To: vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 12:40 PM That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. From: Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. -- I write a little. I erase a lot. - Chopin --- On Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf
Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg
Dear Axil, what you say is more true for Piantelli who has created Transition Metals LENR. Peter On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I will remind the theorists among us again that Rossi states in his patent that copper can be used as a micro powder material as an alternative to nickel. This implies that the physical and/or chemical properties of Nickel are not critical to the Rossi reaction. Rossi has surveyed many other transition metals to support his reaction. He found that nickel performed the best but conversely the other transition metals work almost as well. Nano-engineering is all important in the Rossi process. This indicates to me that the nuclear and/or chemical properties of the micro-metal are not as important as the nano surface preparation of the micro-powder. In simple terms in my opinion, the topology of the nano-structures is what makes the Rossi reaction go. Rossi calls this topology tubules and spent six months working day and night to optimize this surface structure. The changing work functions of the varied polycrystalline structures of these tubules will break apart H2 into H. Somehow inverse Rydberg matter may be formed between and among these tubules with the help of the high pressure and temperature of the hydrogen envelop and the mediating action of an alkaline catalyst. When all those electrons and protons that comprise a inverse Rydberg molecule are packed into the very small space between these surface tubules, this set of subatomic particles gain a lot of energy… maybe from Zero Point Energy…or just from the uncertainty principle. Dr. George Miley shows in his experiments and also in the Rossi ash, what comes out of this process is a zoo of other transmuted elements all up and down the periodic table. On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 1:44 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen atoms once it is released into the atmosphere? Does it gain energy from the air and become standard hydrogen? I am just curious? Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 1:41 pm Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg That is exactly what I was saying… Now that Mills admits the “hydrino” is actually fractiona Rydberg hydrogen the term hydrino not only becomes redundant but also carries all the baggage of his previously wrong definition that caused so much controversy. The term should be eradicated with extreme predjudice. *From:* Danny Ross Lunsford [mailto:antimatte...@yahoo.comantimatte...@yahoo.com?] *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2011 1:28 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Mill's and Lu paper define hydrino as fractional Rydberg You can forget the hydrino. It does no good to adhere to bad ideas. Angular momentum conservation prevents it. We need to use good physics to get to the bottom of this phenomenon, and ruthlessly eliminate the bad ideas. *-- I write a little. I erase a lot. *- Chopin --- On *Tue, 11/1/11, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com*wrote: A recent paper “Time-resolved hydrino continuum transitions with cutoffs at 22.8 nm and 10.1 nm” http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf...http://www.springerlink.com/content/q8005267210x3568/fulltext.pdf -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
