Re: Food for thought

[Stephen Chape]

You are definitely not an orphan Michael.

About 6 years ago my step-son in Dubai moved away from the dark side.
He was influenced by using my Mac whenever he was here.
After he switched he commented that it made things so amazingly easier.
He said he wished he had switched years ago. 

More recently he has commented that he is finding things a little more 
difficult.
He “used to just do stuff” with no complications.
Now he says it is beginning to remind him of Windows.
NOW THAT TO ME IS A WORRY !!



> On 15 Oct 2015, at 12:46 AM, Michael Hawkins 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nice to know I'm not an orphan. I've been using Apple computers since about 
> 1994, and feel the same frustration., including the Photo debacle.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Michael
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 14 Oct 2015, at 9:38 PM, Rob Phillips  wrote:
>> 
>> This is an interesting discussion, and it resonates with the way I have been 
>> thinking.
>> 
>> I agree with Bill
>> 
>> "I want stuff that works when I need it."
>> 
>> Over recent years, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with Apple Mac 
>> products, because they continue to remove functionality that I have been 
>> used to using efficiently. I'm a 'messy' user, and I like to have multiple 
>> windows open at once. Recent OS upgrades have made it harder for me to do 
>> this. Unless I hide the Finder Toolbar, I can't open Folders in a new window 
>> without right-clicking. It took me months to find out about this by trial 
>> and error. Apple should have told me! Previously, I had a preference about 
>> how this behaved.
>> 
>> In other words, I'm getting sick of Apple telling me how I should use my 
>> computer, and removing my options for doing things differently. E.g. taking 
>> away scroll bars because you can swipe on iphones.
>> 
>> Forcing me to move to Photos, with reduced functionality, was another 
>> example which I didn't ask for.  I didn't even know I would lose many of my 
>> smart albums until AFTER I upgraded.
>> 
>> It seems like Apple has a philosophy that everyone is a new user, and 
>> doesn't recognise long-term users.
>> This is an interesting discussion, and it resonates with the way I have been 
>> thinking.
>> 
>> I agree with Bill
>> 
>> "I want stuff that works when I need it."
>> 
>> Over recent years, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with Apple Mac 
>> products, because they continue to remove functionality that I have been 
>> used to using efficiently. I'm a 'messy' user, and I like to have multiple 
>> windows open at once. Recent OS upgrades have made it harder for me to do 
>> this. Unless I hide the Finder Toolbar, I can't open Folders in a new window 
>> without right-clicking. It took me months to find out about this by trial 
>> and error. Apple should have told me! Previously, I had a preference about 
>> how this behaved.
>> 
>> In other words, I'm getting sick of Apple telling me how I should use my 
>> computer, and removing my options for doing things differently. E.g. taking 
>> away scroll bars because you can swipe on iphones.
>> 
>> Forcing me to move to Photos, with reduced functionality, was another 
>> example which I didn't ask for.  I didn't even know I would lose many of my 
>> smart albums until AFTER I upgraded.
>> 
>> It seems like Apple has a philosophy that everyone is a new user, and 
>> doesn't recognise long-term users.
>> 
>> I'm seriously considering other options, but I guess a Linux variety is the 
>> only option,and this will take an extended learning curve.
>> 
>> One day I'll reach a tipping point, but, in the meantime, I can hope that 
>> Apple will stop trying to control my behaviour.
>> 
>> My 2c
>> Rob
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10/10/2015 7:18 am, Bill Parker wrote:
>>> Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need 
>>> it.  The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and 
>>> vastly superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no 
>>> value from the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent 
>>> past I had to open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the 
>>> very LEADT Apple could do is alert users to some very simples to take 
>>> before you download ( thanks Ronni for the help!)
>>> 
>>> What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with 
>>> group I work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it 
>>> predessor.  And Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical 
>>> operation I an stuffed.
>>> 
>>> Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not 
>>> need to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
 On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not 
 grasp what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is 

Re: Food for thought

[Michael Hawkins]

Nice to know I'm not an orphan. I've been using Apple computers since about 
1994, and feel the same frustration., including the Photo debacle.

Cheers,

Michael

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14 Oct 2015, at 9:38 PM, Rob Phillips  wrote:
> 
> This is an interesting discussion, and it resonates with the way I have been 
> thinking.
> 
> I agree with Bill
> 
> "I want stuff that works when I need it."
> 
> Over recent years, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with Apple Mac 
> products, because they continue to remove functionality that I have been used 
> to using efficiently. I'm a 'messy' user, and I like to have multiple windows 
> open at once. Recent OS upgrades have made it harder for me to do this. 
> Unless I hide the Finder Toolbar, I can't open Folders in a new window 
> without right-clicking. It took me months to find out about this by trial and 
> error. Apple should have told me! Previously, I had a preference about how 
> this behaved.
> 
> In other words, I'm getting sick of Apple telling me how I should use my 
> computer, and removing my options for doing things differently. E.g. taking 
> away scroll bars because you can swipe on iphones.
> 
> Forcing me to move to Photos, with reduced functionality, was another example 
> which I didn't ask for.  I didn't even know I would lose many of my smart 
> albums until AFTER I upgraded.
> 
> It seems like Apple has a philosophy that everyone is a new user, and doesn't 
> recognise long-term users.
> This is an interesting discussion, and it resonates with the way I have been 
> thinking.
> 
> I agree with Bill
> 
> "I want stuff that works when I need it."
> 
> Over recent years, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with Apple Mac 
> products, because they continue to remove functionality that I have been used 
> to using efficiently. I'm a 'messy' user, and I like to have multiple windows 
> open at once. Recent OS upgrades have made it harder for me to do this. 
> Unless I hide the Finder Toolbar, I can't open Folders in a new window 
> without right-clicking. It took me months to find out about this by trial and 
> error. Apple should have told me! Previously, I had a preference about how 
> this behaved.
> 
> In other words, I'm getting sick of Apple telling me how I should use my 
> computer, and removing my options for doing things differently. E.g. taking 
> away scroll bars because you can swipe on iphones.
> 
> Forcing me to move to Photos, with reduced functionality, was another example 
> which I didn't ask for.  I didn't even know I would lose many of my smart 
> albums until AFTER I upgraded.
> 
> It seems like Apple has a philosophy that everyone is a new user, and doesn't 
> recognise long-term users.
> 
> I'm seriously considering other options, but I guess a Linux variety is the 
> only option,and this will take an extended learning curve.
> 
> One day I'll reach a tipping point, but, in the meantime, I can hope that 
> Apple will stop trying to control my behaviour.
> 
> My 2c
> Rob
> 
> 
>> On 10/10/2015 7:18 am, Bill Parker wrote:
>> Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it. 
>>  The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
>> superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value 
>> from the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I 
>> had to open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very 
>> LEADT Apple could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you 
>> download ( thanks Ronni for the help!)
>> 
>> What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with 
>> group I work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it 
>> predessor.  And Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical 
>> operation I an stuffed.
>> 
>> Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not 
>> need to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not 
>>> grasp what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it 
>>> the Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
>>> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
>>> problem?
>>> 
>>> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit 
>>> for a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are 
>>> fairly basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have 
>>> problems in constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted 
>>> etc. Although I have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with 
>>> Mellel, a powerful application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a 
>>> quick and short document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite 

Re: Food for thought

[Rob Phillips]

This is an interesting discussion, and it resonates with the way I have 
been thinking.


I agree with Bill

"I want stuff that works when I need it."

Over recent years, I've become increasingly dissatisfied with Apple Mac 
products, because they continue to remove functionality that I have been 
used to using efficiently. I'm a 'messy' user, and I like to have 
multiple windows open at once. Recent OS upgrades have made it harder 
for me to do this. Unless I hide the Finder Toolbar, I can't open 
Folders in a new window without right-clicking. It took me months to 
find out about this by trial and error. Apple should have told me! 
Previously, I had a preference about how this behaved.


In other words, I'm getting sick of Apple telling me how I should use my 
computer, and removing my options for doing things differently. E.g. 
taking away scroll bars because you can swipe on iphones.


Forcing me to move to Photos, with reduced functionality, was another 
example which I didn't ask for.  I didn't even know I would lose many of 
my smart albums until AFTER I upgraded.


It seems like Apple has a philosophy that everyone is a new user, and 
doesn't recognise long-term users.


I'm seriously considering other options, but I guess a Linux variety is 
the only option,and this will take an extended learning curve.


One day I'll reach a tipping point, but, in the meantime, I can hope 
that Apple will stop trying to control my behaviour.


My 2c
Rob


On 10/10/2015 7:18 am, Bill Parker wrote:

Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it.  
The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value from 
the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I had to 
open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very LEADT Apple 
could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you download ( 
thanks Ronni for the help!)

What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with group I 
work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it predessor.  And 
Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical operation I an 
stuffed.

Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not need 
to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!

Bill


On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:

Hi All,

The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the amount 
of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the problem?

For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for a 
price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly basic 
e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily.

With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing world 
is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition from 
Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest technologies it 
will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car industry. A current 
car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric windows and/or an 
electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods etc would not survive 
the highly competitive modern car market. The current consumers, in the 
majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for safety and economy 
and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement is not met by the car 
or computer or camera etc manufacturer.

Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers would 
not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology.

I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we Mac 
users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS have 
go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the IIc 
came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the user’s end. 
But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I possibly use only 
2% or so of the OS available functions.

By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now 

Re: Food for thought

[Peter Hinchliffe]

> On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
> I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I use 
> a MacBook Pro bought in 2006. It functions well and does all I need including 
> banking and photos but it cannot run OS10.7 or later. To do that I have to 
> buy a new one.
> 
> Behind me there is an iMac running OS10.10.5 which my wife mainly uses but is 
> full of stuff we don't want, don't use and we don't know what most of it is. 
> Carolyn curses as each upgrade changes things that we were fairly happy with 
> before, especially iPhoto now Photos. So I think I agree with Bill Parker 
> about "being fit for usage" as our iMac is loaded with stuff we will never 
> use but it still gets backed up many times a day
> 
> Wouldn't be nice to have a basic OS that you could add to as needed
> 
> Regards  Allen
> 

My poast was not in any way intended to be disparaging of those still running 
Snow Leopard. In fact, I did use the word “venerable” to describe it. I still 
have fond memories of Tiger when it comes to that: it was the first truly 
useable version of Mac OS X, finally allowing me to sever all ties with the 
past, although it was also a day of some sorrow when Leopard saw the the 
abandonment of Rosetta, which us allowed us to run some indispensable classic 
applications such as Macromedia Freehand (which is yet to be fully replaced, 
although Affinity Designer is coming close). 

My post was really designed to allow those of us who have been around for a 
long time to indulge in a little nostalgia. It’s a little sobering to thing 
that it took 16 years for the Classic Mac OS to reach end of life. Next year 
Mac OS X will also be 16 years old. I find that a king’s banquet for thought.

All that having been said, time does move on, and so does software development. 
An unfortunate result of this progress is that third party developers also have 
to play the game if they want their products to reman relevant, and in many 
cases the latest versions require the latest version of the OS as the various 
frameworks and libraries evolve.

There is no compulsion to join in the software evolution rat race. It’s my 
considered opinion after watching the computing needs of most people I know 
that their word processing needs could easily be met with TextEdit. This is not 
do disparage wither the users or the software: it is to say that TextEdit is a 
surprisingly powerful resource that is probably neglected by most, who will 
succumb to the intense marketing idea that Microsoft Word is indispensable. The 
Mac is well-blessed with similar resources, and they improve with each 
incremental update, while some do fall by the wayside. 

Personally, I enjoy the challenge of keeping up, but that’s jut me, and I 
acknowledge that for others it’s a chore. The truth remains however, that if 
you want to use the latest version of your favourite software, you simply have 
to keep everything up to date. 

Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
Perth, Western Australia
Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948

Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.

-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
Archives - 
Guidelines - 
Settings & Unsubscribe - 

Re: Food for thought

[Bill Parker]

Phillipe,

No apology necessary I am sure.   The issue with computers and other bits of 
technology is that (according to my IT specialist colleagues) things have grown 
too complex and problem solving harder.  If they have trouble what about the 
non-experts?  We learn solutions by chance and just get on.  My fire brigade 
had a fax machine that would refuse to do a task even though it indicated it 
had. The bizarre solution was to switch off and UNPLUG.  Wait 30 seconds and 
start again. That solved it.

Bill


> On 10 Oct 2015, at 09:50, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill and others,
> 
> I was not criticising your point of view or your current situation and 
> sincerely apologise if my email gave this impression. I do understand what 
> you are experiencing having for years had to juggle between the Windows and 
> Mac platforms mainly because of work.
> 
> I guess that my conclusion is that we, consumers, are caught in this 
> technological world where constant development is essential for survival. I 
> saw this when the Android operating system came on the market and both MS and 
> Apple had to push development even further, resulting in that very same 
> situation you mentioned.
> 
> Enough said from me, and again please accept my most sincere apologies for 
> any offence
> or upset my email may have caused you and the WAMUG community.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Philippe Chaperon
> Perth, Australie Occidentale
> Envoyé de mon  iPad
> 
> 
>> Le 10 Oct 2015 à 7:18 AM, Bill Parker  a écrit :
>> 
>> Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it. 
>>  The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
>> superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value 
>> from the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I 
>> had to open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very 
>> LEADT Apple could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you 
>> download ( thanks Ronni for the help!)
>> 
>> What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with 
>> group I work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it 
>> predessor.  And Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical 
>> operation I an stuffed.
>> 
>> Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not 
>> need to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All, 
>>> 
>>> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not 
>>> grasp what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it 
>>> the Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
>>> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
>>> problem?
>>> 
>>> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit 
>>> for a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are 
>>> fairly basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have 
>>> problems in constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted 
>>> etc. Although I have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with 
>>> Mellel, a powerful application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a 
>>> quick and short document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
>>> 
>>> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
>>> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
>>> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
>>> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
>>> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without 
>>> electric windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by 
>>> push rods etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. 
>>> The current consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in 
>>> technology for safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if 
>>> this requirement is not met by the car or computer or camera etc 
>>> manufacturer.
>>> 
>>> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
>>> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
>>> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once 
>>> learned, will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me 
>>> to surf the net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many 
>>> ‘old’ browsers would not be able to cope with all that latest internet 
>>> technology. 
>>> 
>>> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
>>> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ 
>>> OS have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products 

Re: Food for thought

[Bill Parker]

Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it.  
The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value from 
the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I had to 
open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very LEADT Apple 
could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you download ( 
thanks Ronni for the help!)

What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with group I 
work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it predessor.  And 
Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical operation I an 
stuffed.

Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not need 
to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!

Bill

> On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
> what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
> Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
> problem?
> 
> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for 
> a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly 
> basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
> constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
> have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
> application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
> document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
> 
> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric 
> windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods 
> etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. The current 
> consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for 
> safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement 
> is not met by the car or computer or camera etc manufacturer.
> 
> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
> will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
> net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers 
> would not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 
> 
> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS 
> have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the 
> IIc came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the 
> user’s end. But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I 
> possibly use only 2% or so of the OS available functions.
> 
> By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now ancient MacBook, and this 
> will have to stay as is because I doubt the hardware will cope with the 
> latest OS. 
> 
> Have a nice weekend all and sorry for my rant!
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Philippe C
> Perth, Australie Occidentale 
> 
> 
> On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
> I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I use 
> a MacBook Pro bought in 2006. It functions well and does all I need including 
> banking and photos but it cannot run OS10.7 or later. To do that I have to 
> buy a new one.
> 
> Behind me there is an iMac running OS10.10.5 which my wife mainly uses but is 
> full of stuff we don't want, don't use and we don't know what most of it is. 
> Carolyn curses as each upgrade changes things that we were fairly happy with 
> before, especially iPhoto now Photos. So I think I agree with Bill Parker 
> about "being fit for usage" as our iMac is loaded with stuff we will never 
> use but it still gets backed up many times a day
> 
> Wouldn't be nice to have a basic OS that you could add to as needed
> 
> Regards  Allen
> 
> On 08/10/2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker wrote:
> 
>> Peter,
>> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
>> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
>> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
>> things 

Re: Food for thought

[Philippe Chaperon]

Hi Bill and others,

I was not criticising your point of view or your current situation and 
sincerely apologise if my email gave this impression. I do understand what you 
are experiencing having for years had to juggle between the Windows and Mac 
platforms mainly because of work.

I guess that my conclusion is that we, consumers, are caught in this 
technological world where constant development is essential for survival. I saw 
this when the Android operating system came on the market and both MS and Apple 
had to push development even further, resulting in that very same situation you 
mentioned.

Enough said from me, and again please accept my most sincere apologies for any 
offence
 or upset my email may have caused you and the WAMUG community.

Best regards,

Philippe Chaperon
Perth, Australie Occidentale
Envoyé de mon  iPad


> Le 10 Oct 2015 à 7:18 AM, Bill Parker  a écrit :
> 
> Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it.  
> The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
> superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value from 
> the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I had to 
> open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very LEADT Apple 
> could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you download ( 
> thanks Ronni for the help!)
> 
> What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with group 
> I work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it predessor.  And 
> Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical operation I an 
> stuffed.
> 
> Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not 
> need to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All, 
>> 
>> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not 
>> grasp what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it 
>> the Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
>> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
>> problem?
>> 
>> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit 
>> for a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are 
>> fairly basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have 
>> problems in constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted 
>> etc. Although I have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with 
>> Mellel, a powerful application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a 
>> quick and short document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
>> 
>> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
>> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
>> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
>> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
>> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without 
>> electric windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by 
>> push rods etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. 
>> The current consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in 
>> technology for safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if 
>> this requirement is not met by the car or computer or camera etc 
>> manufacturer.
>> 
>> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
>> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
>> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
>> will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf 
>> the net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ 
>> browsers would not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 
>> 
>> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
>> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS 
>> have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the 
>> IIc came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the 
>> user’s end. But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I 
>> possibly use only 2% or so of the OS available functions.
>> 
>> By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now ancient MacBook, and 
>> this will have to stay as is because I doubt the hardware will cope with the 
>> latest OS. 
>> 
>> Have a nice weekend all and sorry for my rant!
>> 
>> Kind regards, 
>> 
>> Philippe C
>> Perth, Australie Occidentale 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Peter
>> 
>> I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I 
>> 

Re: Food for thought

[Philippe Chaperon]

Hi All, 

The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the amount 
of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the problem?

For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for a 
price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly basic 
e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 

With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing world 
is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition from 
Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest technologies it 
will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car industry. A current 
car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric windows and/or an 
electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods etc would not survive 
the highly competitive modern car market. The current consumers, in the 
majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for safety and economy 
and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement is not met by the car 
or computer or camera etc manufacturer.

Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers would 
not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 

I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we Mac 
users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS have 
go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the IIc 
came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the user’s end. 
But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I possibly use only 
2% or so of the OS available functions.

By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now ancient MacBook, and this 
will have to stay as is because I doubt the hardware will cope with the latest 
OS. 

Have a nice weekend all and sorry for my rant!

Kind regards, 

Philippe C
Perth, Australie Occidentale 


On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:

Hi Peter

I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I use a 
MacBook Pro bought in 2006. It functions well and does all I need including 
banking and photos but it cannot run OS10.7 or later. To do that I have to buy 
a new one.

Behind me there is an iMac running OS10.10.5 which my wife mainly uses but is 
full of stuff we don't want, don't use and we don't know what most of it is. 
Carolyn curses as each upgrade changes things that we were fairly happy with 
before, especially iPhoto now Photos. So I think I agree with Bill Parker about 
"being fit for usage" as our iMac is loaded with stuff we will never use but it 
still gets backed up many times a day

Wouldn't be nice to have a basic OS that you could add to as needed

Regards  Allen

On 08/10/2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker wrote:

> Peter,
> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
> things would get fixed!   And I have reached the point where I am getting 
> more and more reluctant to grab the next upgrade as soon as it hits the 
> street.
> 
> There is no answer i know - but hey would it not be useful if somebody at 
> Apple asked what the users actually wanted???   e.g. Windows 7 is not easy.   
> Microsoft Office has not been “improved” since version some years back, and 
> for something that most only use the tip of the iceberg,  Word and Powerpoint 
> could be made available in cut down basic forms. The power point crashing 
> with El Kapitan is getting many people angry.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 08:22, Peter Hinchliffe  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years 
>> old! Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be dragged 
>> from their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…
>> 
>> For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Temmus is certainly fugitting!

Re: Food for thought

[Michael Hawkins]

Hello All,

My perception may be wrong, my imagination may be running riot, but it does 
seem to me that the battery life of my iPhone gets shorter with each new 
iteration of an OS and each new OS and more and more we're being driven to 
using iCloud. Someone justifies this on the basis get it gives increased 
security but to my simple mind data which stats on my hard drive is more secure 
than data which gets plonked onto a server in Apple knows where but I don't, 
whee security and privacy laws may be more lax than Australia's. And how can 
transmitting something over the Internet be more secure than not transmitting 
it at all?

Turning now to things on a cloud, what happens to my data if I want to abandon 
Apple and go elsewhere. Can I shift every untying that I paid for through 
iTunes (example) onto a non-Apple Compuetr? Or have I done my dough. I'm still 
searching for some of my photos.

Cheers,

Michael
(Apple since 94)


Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 Oct 2015, at 7:46 PM, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
> what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
> Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
> problem?
> 
> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for 
> a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly 
> basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
> constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
> have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
> application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
> document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
> 
> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric 
> windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods 
> etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. The current 
> consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for 
> safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement 
> is not met by the car or computer or camera etc manufacturer.
> 
> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
> will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
> net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers 
> would not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 
> 
> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS 
> have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products s
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Re: Food for thought

[Allen]

Hi Peter

I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I use a 
MacBook Pro bought in 2006. It functions well and does all I need including 
banking and photos but it cannot run OS10.7 or later. To do that I have to buy 
a new one.

Behind me there is an iMac running OS10.10.5 which my wife mainly uses but is 
full of stuff we don't want, don't use and we don't know what most of it is. 
Carolyn curses as each upgrade changes things that we were fairly happy with 
before, especially iPhoto now Photos. So I think I agree with Bill Parker about 
"being fit for usage" as our iMac is loaded with stuff we will never use but it 
still gets backed up many times a day

Wouldn't be nice to have a basic OS that you could add to as needed

Regards  Allen

On 08/10/2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker wrote:

> Peter,
> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
> things would get fixed!   And I have reached the point where I am getting 
> more and more reluctant to grab the next upgrade as soon as it hits the 
> street.
> 
> There is no answer i know - but hey would it not be useful if somebody at 
> Apple asked what the users actually wanted???   e.g. Windows 7 is not easy.   
> Microsoft Office has not been “improved” since version some years back, and 
> for something that most only use the tip of the iceberg,  Word and Powerpoint 
> could be made available in cut down basic forms. The power point crashing 
> with El Kapitan is getting many people angry.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 08:22, Peter Hinchliffe  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years 
>> old! Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be dragged 
>> from their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…
>> 
>> For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Temmus is certainly fugitting!
>> 
>> 
>> Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
>> FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
>> Perth, Western Australia
>> Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948
>> 
>> Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.
>> 
>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
>> Archives - 
>> Guidelines - 
>> Settings & Unsubscribe - 
>> 
> 
> Dr Bill Parker
> ren...@westnet.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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Re: Food for thought

[Ronda Brown]

Hi Bill,

Re: PowerPoint crashing in El Capitan OS X 10.11

"Microsoft is aware of the problems with its software and has been responding 
to customer complaints. In a thread on the Microsoft forums, Microsoft Program 
Manager Faisal Jeelani said the company is working with Apple to resolve the 
issues, but said there is no timeline for a fix. Microsoft also gave 
Computerworld a similar statement:
"We know that some users may be experiencing issues with Office 2016 for Mac 
running on El Capitan," the statement read. "We are actively investigating the 
matter with Apple. Until there is a fix, we recommend people install the latest 
updates to Office 2016 for Mac using Microsoft AutoUpdate."
Cheers,
Ronni
Sent from Ronni's iPad4


> On 8 Oct 2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker  wrote:
> 
> Peter,
> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
> things would get fixed!   And I have reached the point where I am getting 
> more and more reluctant to grab the next upgrade as soon as it hits the 
> street.
> 
> There is no answer i know - but hey would it not be useful if somebody at 
> Apple asked what the users actually wanted???   e.g. Windows 7 is not easy.   
> Microsoft Office has not been “improved” since version some years back, and 
> for something that most only use the tip of the iceberg,  Word and Powerpoint 
> could be made available in cut down basic forms. The power point crashing 
> with El Kapitan is getting many people angry.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 08:22, Peter Hinchliffe  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years 
>> old! Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be dragged 
>> from their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…
>> 
>> For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Temmus is certainly fugitting!
>> 
>> 
>> Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
>> FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
>> Perth, Western Australia
>> Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948
>> 
>> Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.
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Re: Food for thought

[Bill Parker]

Peter,
I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that neither 
the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are thoroughly fit 
for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, things would get 
fixed!   And I have reached the point where I am getting more and more 
reluctant to grab the next upgrade as soon as it hits the street.

There is no answer i know - but hey would it not be useful if somebody at Apple 
asked what the users actually wanted???   e.g. Windows 7 is not easy.   
Microsoft Office has not been “improved” since version some years back, and for 
something that most only use the tip of the iceberg,  Word and Powerpoint could 
be made available in cut down basic forms. The power point crashing with El 
Kapitan is getting many people angry.


Bill




> On 8 Oct 2015, at 08:22, Peter Hinchliffe  wrote:
> 
> It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years old! 
> Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be dragged from 
> their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…
> 
> For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at
> 
> 
> 
> Temmus is certainly fugitting!
> 
> 
> Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
> FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
> Perth, Western Australia
> Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948
> 
> Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.
> 
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - 
> Guidelines - 
> Settings & Unsubscribe - 
> 

Dr Bill Parker
ren...@westnet.com.au



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Food for thought

[Peter Hinchliffe]

It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years old! 
Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be dragged from 
their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…

For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at



Temmus is certainly fugitting!


Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
Perth, Western Australia
Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948

Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.

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Re: Food for thought

[Bill Parker]

Ronni

That’s good to know.  I use PPT for training courses!   I’ll hang fire until 
its sorted.

Bill
> On 8 Oct 2015, at 10:15, Ronda Brown  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Re: PowerPoint crashing in El Capitan OS X 10.11
> 
> "Microsoft is aware of the problems with its software and has been responding 
> to customer complaints. In a thread on the Microsoft forums 
> ,
>  Microsoft Program Manager Faisal Jeelani said the company is working with 
> Apple to resolve the issues, but said there is no timeline for a fix. 
> Microsoft also gave Computerworld 
> 
>  a similar statement:
> "We know that some users may be experiencing issues with Office 2016 for Mac 
> running on El Capitan," the statement read. "We are actively investigating 
> the matter with Apple. Until there is a fix, we recommend people install the 
> latest updates to Office 2016 for Mac using Microsoft AutoUpdate."
> Cheers,
> Ronni
> Sent from Ronni's iPad4
> 
> 
> On 8 Oct 2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker  > wrote:
> 
>> Peter,
>> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
>> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
>> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
>> things would get fixed!   And I have reached the point where I am getting 
>> more and more reluctant to grab the next upgrade as soon as it hits the 
>> street.
>> 
>> There is no answer i know - but hey would it not be useful if somebody at 
>> Apple asked what the users actually wanted???   e.g. Windows 7 is not easy.  
>>  Microsoft Office has not been “improved” since version some years back, and 
>> for something that most only use the tip of the iceberg,  Word and 
>> Powerpoint could be made available in cut down basic forms. The power point 
>> crashing with El Kapitan is getting many people angry.
>> 
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 08:22, Peter Hinchliffe >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years 
>>> old! Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be 
>>> dragged from their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…
>>> 
>>> For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at
>>> 
>>> >> >
>>> 
>>> Temmus is certainly fugitting!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Peter HinchliffeApwin Computer Services
>>> FileMaker Pro Solutions Developer
>>> Perth, Western Australia
>>> Phone (618) 9332 6482Mob 0403 046 948
>>> 
>>> Mac because I prefer it -- Windows because I have to.
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - 
> Guidelines - 
> Settings & Unsubscribe - 
> 

Dr Bill Parker
ren...@westnet.com.au



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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Ronda Brown]

Hi Rob,

I will do a Tutorial over the next day or so and upload it to my website, 
showing you that it does work using the steps I explained below.

I did the process again today so I could take screenshots on my iPad to do a 
Tutorial.
I took a few photos on my camera and connected to iPad using the CCK (Camera 
Connection Kit), imported the photos, then uploaded the imported photos to 
dropbox.

And all the uploaded photos have synced to my Dropbox Photos folder on all my 
devices - MBP /iPad / iPhone

I'll let you know when I have done the Tutorial.

Cheers,
Ronni

On 18/09/2012, at 11:22 AM, Rob Phillips r.phill...@murdoch.edu.au wrote:

 Hi Ronni
 
 I don't have the iPad here - it's still with the boss in Switzerland...
 
 Your description of Dropbox is as I remember it, with one exception.
 
 I don't remember seeing the + at the top of the uploads section. I could 
 only see the contents of my camera roll, not the other events/albums 
 (e.g. Last Imported) which I could see in the Photo App.
 
 I was able to use the iResize App to access hi-res photos in Last 
 Imported, and this inserted the compressed images into the Camera Roll, 
 where Dropbox could see them and synch them, but I really wanted a 
 backup of my originals.
 
 Cheers
 Rob
 
 On 18/09/12 9:45 AM, Ronda Brown wrote:
 Hi Rob,
 
 Perhaps I'm not understanding your problem correctly.
 The iPad version of the Dropbox mobile app allows you to upload any videos 
 or photos synced to your gallery.
 
 1. Open the Dropbox App, link to account etc.
 2. Click the Box icon on the left hand side, a pop up opens
 3. Click the uploads tab at the bottom, which is immediately next to the 
 settings
 4. Click the + at the top of the uploads section
 The app still asks for permission to access your locations, (because 
 photos can contain location data)
 5. Tap the photos and videos you want to send to Dropbox from the resulting 
 photo gallery.
 6. Once done select 'Upload'
 
 Cheers,
 Ronni
 
 
 On 17/09/2012, at 10:18 PM, Rob Phillips r.phill...@murdoch.edu.au wrote:
 
 G'day Mart and others,
 
 This may be a bit heretical, but I have concerns how Apple is locking
 things down to its commercial benefit.
 
 Let me give you a concrete example. I've just returned from a month
 hiking through Switzerland. (If you have the interest, check out
 http://www.everlater.com/raphillips1).
 
 To prepare for this, I bought an iPad to: use to display Swiss
 topographical maps and record our track by GPS; to maintain a trip blog;
 to store and process Rita's photos; and do general web surfing.
 
 The iPad was great except for one element. Photo management.  I was able
 to purchase an adaptor to download photos from the camera to the iPad. I
 had 15GB of DropBox space to backup the photos to the cloud. Everything
 was sweet.
 
 Then I downloaded the first lot of photos, and I could see them on the
 iPad, but they weren't in the 'camera roll'. Only items in the camera
 roll can be synched to DropBox and Mobile me. By default, only photos
 taken with the iPad camera go in the camera roll.  The only way to get
 access to these photos seems to be to connect the iPad to a Mac
 registered to me, then upload/ download the photos to that machine.  I
 didn't have one of these with me!
 
 Why does Apple restrict the functionality of powerful devices like the
 iPad so that it can only be used in ways that Apple determines, and
 which require other hardware.  The underlying OS should enable me to do
 much more.
 
 I spent hours at nights trying to find apps to work around this, without
 much success. It shouldn't be so difficult.
 
 I am concerned that I am being manipulated by Apple.
 
 Cheers
 Rob

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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Martin Hill]

This is the reply I posted to the article below:

I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why don't you 
go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 for a 
replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of corporate 
greed than Apple's little adapter.

NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the water as 
it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these sorts of 
standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - witness the time 
Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they waited until there was 
enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for consumers saving them the terrible 
battery life impact inherent with jumping in too soon on early chipsets.

Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual carrier 
NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such locally.  

It gives up to 42mbps speeds which is far faster than Vivid Wireless's 4G WiMax 
network here in Australia which tops out at a pathetic 5mbps.   In contrast, 
Apple's iPad 4G has demonstrated real-world speeds of 20mbps on NextG in 
Australia.  Now you tell me who is putting one over the consumer in that 
context?

@David, this continued witch-hunt against Apple over Chinese working conditions 
is unfortunately based on a lot of untruth exacerbated by the infamous Mike 
Daisy.  For example the topic that started the media frenzy originally was the 
supposed suicide cluster at Foxconn, Apple's major Chinese assembler.  The 
reality which still very few media outlets mention is that only 17 suicides 
were verified over a 5 year period.  

This may sound like a lot until you realise that if Foxconn had the same 
suicide rate as the rest of China, they would have had 1,320 suicides over that 
same timeframe out of their 1.2 million workers.

Make no mistake about it, these sorts of complaints are nothing but tall-poppy 
syndrome and sour grapes


On 17/09/2012, at 1:03 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=33211
 Merv
 -- 
 The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden 
 confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of 
 Man')
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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Ronda Brown]

Totally agree with you Martin on all you have mentioned below.
This is classic Tall Poppy Syndrome and jealousy of Apple's huge success!

Cheers,
Ronni

Sent from Ronni's iPad

On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill marth...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 This is the reply I posted to the article below:
 
 I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why don't 
 you go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 for a 
 replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of corporate 
 greed than Apple's little adapter.
 
 NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the water 
 as it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these sorts of 
 standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - witness the time 
 Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they waited until there 
 was enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for consumers saving them the 
 terrible battery life impact inherent with jumping in too soon on early 
 chipsets.
 
 Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
 International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual carrier 
 NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such locally.  
 
 It gives up to 42mbps speeds which is far faster than Vivid Wireless's 4G 
 WiMax network here in Australia which tops out at a pathetic 5mbps.   In 
 contrast, Apple's iPad 4G has demonstrated real-world speeds of 20mbps on 
 NextG in Australia.  Now you tell me who is putting one over the consumer in 
 that context?
 
 @David, this continued witch-hunt against Apple over Chinese working 
 conditions is unfortunately based on a lot of untruth exacerbated by the 
 infamous Mike Daisy.  For example the topic that started the media frenzy 
 originally was the supposed suicide cluster at Foxconn, Apple's major Chinese 
 assembler.  The reality which still very few media outlets mention is that 
 only 17 suicides were verified over a 5 year period.  
 
 This may sound like a lot until you realise that if Foxconn had the same 
 suicide rate as the rest of China, they would have had 1,320 suicides over 
 that same timeframe out of their 1.2 million workers.
 
 Make no mistake about it, these sorts of complaints are nothing but 
 tall-poppy syndrome and sour grapes
 
 
 On 17/09/2012, at 1:03 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:
 
 http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=33211
 Merv
 -- 
 The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden 
 confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of 
 Man')
 -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Stephen Chape]

Well done Martin !

On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill wrote:

 This is the reply I posted to the article below:
 
 I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why don't 
 you go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 for a 
 replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of corporate 
 greed than Apple's little adapter.
 
 NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the water 
 as it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these sorts of 
 standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - witness the time 
 Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they waited until there 
 was enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for consumers saving them the 
 terrible battery life impact inherent with jumping in too soon on early 
 chipsets.
 
 Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
 International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual carrier 
 NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such locally.  
 
 It gives up to 42mbps speeds which is far faster than Vivid Wireless's 4G 
 WiMax network here in Australia which tops out at a pathetic 5mbps.   In 
 contrast, Apple's iPad 4G has demonstrated real-world speeds of 20mbps on 
 NextG in Australia.  Now you tell me who is putting one over the consumer in 
 that context?
 
 @David, this continued witch-hunt against Apple over Chinese working 
 conditions is unfortunately based on a lot of untruth exacerbated by the 
 infamous Mike Daisy.  For example the topic that started the media frenzy 
 originally was the supposed suicide cluster at Foxconn, Apple's major Chinese 
 assembler.  The reality which still very few media outlets mention is that 
 only 17 suicides were verified over a 5 year period.  
 
 This may sound like a lot until you realise that if Foxconn had the same 
 suicide rate as the rest of China, they would have had 1,320 suicides over 
 that same timeframe out of their 1.2 million workers.
 
 Make no mistake about it, these sorts of complaints are nothing but 
 tall-poppy syndrome and sour grapes
 
 
 On 17/09/2012, at 1:03 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:
 
 http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=33211
 Merv
 -- 
 The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden 
 confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of 
 Man')
 -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
 Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml
 Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml
 Settings  Unsubscribe - 
 http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
 
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 Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml
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Regards,
Stephen Chape

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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Merv Bond]

It is a common ploy to defend oneself by saying that everybody else is 
doing it. Throw in some adjectives such as silly, ridiculous and tall 
poppy syndrome to add to the mix. The issue of ethics in business is the 
sub-text of the article. At the more literal reading the author of the 
article was suggesting that a $35 adapter was a small amount for a 
company at the top of profit list in the world and would have been a 
gesture of goodwill to its devoted customers.
Merv

On 17/09/12 5:25 PM, Stephen Chape wrote:
 Well done Martin !

 On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill wrote:

 This is the reply I posted to the article below:

 I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why don't 
 you go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 for a 
 replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of corporate 
 greed than Apple's little adapter.

 NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the water 
 as it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these sorts 
 of standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - witness the 
 time Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they waited until 
 there was enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for consumers saving them 
 the terrible battery life impact inherent with jumping in too soon on early 
 chipsets.

 Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
 International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual carrier 
 NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such locally.

 It gives up to 42mbps speeds which is far faster than Vivid Wireless's 4G 
 WiMax network here in Australia which tops out at a pathetic 5mbps.   In 
 contrast, Apple's iPad 4G has demonstrated real-world speeds of 20mbps on 
 NextG in Australia.  Now you tell me who is putting one over the consumer in 
 that context?

 @David, this continued witch-hunt against Apple over Chinese working 
 conditions is unfortunately based on a lot of untruth exacerbated by the 
 infamous Mike Daisy.  For example the topic that started the media frenzy 
 originally was the supposed suicide cluster at Foxconn, Apple's major 
 Chinese assembler.  The reality which still very few media outlets mention 
 is that only 17 suicides were verified over a 5 year period.

 This may sound like a lot until you realise that if Foxconn had the same 
 suicide rate as the rest of China, they would have had 1,320 suicides over 
 that same timeframe out of their 1.2 million workers.

 Make no mistake about it, these sorts of complaints are nothing but 
 tall-poppy syndrome and sour grapes


 On 17/09/2012, at 1:03 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=33211
 Merv
 --
 The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden
 confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of
 Man')
 -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
 Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml
 Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml
 Settings  Unsubscribe - 
 http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug

 -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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 Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml
 Settings  Unsubscribe - 
 http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug


 Regards,
 Stephen Chape

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-- 
The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden 
confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of 
Man')
-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Martin Hill]

Merv, my apologies if I expressed myself a bit too strongly in my comment.  I 
do in fact agree absolutely about the importance of ethical business practices 
but feel the examples given in the article were just so inaccurate as to damage 
the author's cause.

I have been frustrated in recent years at the amount of unbalanced commentary 
in much of the media about things like this. The continual tendency to tear 
down those who do well that is such a feature of the Australian psyche is 
unfortunately all too evident on the Internet as well.  

In the case of Apple it almost seems to be an orchestrated campaign for many 
elements of the media to fixate on some manufactured negative issue with each 
product release and blow it out of all proportion.  Examples include the lack 
of a keyboard on the original iPhone, the non-removable battery, the supposedly 
*hot* iPad which was cooler than most other tablets, the Aussie 4G issue and 
now this $35 adapter.

Where was the outcry when Samsung changed their adapter from their 30-pin dock 
connector (which they copied from Apple) in the Galaxy S2 to the Galaxy S3 
without a free adapter for S2 owners?  What's wrong with buying a cheaper third 
party adapter than Apple's for the new iPhone 5 - they're already being 
advertised.  

Why should Apple give it away free? Apple already gives lots of free or cheap 
stuff out - far cheaper OS update prices than Microsoft, far cheaper app prices 
than desktop software, free iCloud services, the cheap cloud-hosted iTunes 
Match service even for pirated music, free iOS system updates, free Find My 
iPhone and Find my Friends apps, free Maps GPS navigation app, free iTunes 
Remote app, etc etc.  How many gestures of goodwill does Apple have to make? 
What's the big deal about this adapter?

What other company has stuck with the same adapter and port on their devices 
for a decade?  Why is there no outcry over the ridiculous number of different 
USB port sizes and shapes out there that you have to buy different cables and 
adapters for each different device? Why did I have to pay $400 for a new remote 
key fob for my Landrover().  ;-(

It is this unbalanced commentary that just gets my goat!  

-Mart


On 17/09/2012, at 5:53 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 It is a common ploy to defend oneself by saying that everybody else is 
 doing it. Throw in some adjectives such as silly, ridiculous and tall 
 poppy syndrome to add to the mix. The issue of ethics in business is the 
 sub-text of the article. At the more literal reading the author of the 
 article was suggesting that a $35 adapter was a small amount for a 
 company at the top of profit list in the world and would have been a 
 gesture of goodwill to its devoted customers.
 Merv
 
 On 17/09/12 5:25 PM, Stephen Chape wrote:
 Well done Martin !
 
 On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill wrote:
 
 This is the reply I posted to the article below:
 
 I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why don't 
 you go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 for a 
 replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of corporate 
 greed than Apple's little adapter.
 
 NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the 
 water as it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these 
 sorts of standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - 
 witness the time Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they 
 waited until there was enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for consumers 
 saving them the terrible battery life impact inherent with jumping in too 
 soon on early chipsets.
 
 Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
 International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual carrier 
 NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such locally.
 
 It gives up to 42mbps speeds which is far faster than Vivid Wireless's 4G 
 WiMax network here in Australia which tops out at a pathetic 5mbps.   In 
 contrast, Apple's iPad 4G has demonstrated real-world speeds of 20mbps on 
 NextG in Australia.  Now you tell me who is putting one over the consumer 
 in that context?
 
 @David, this continued witch-hunt against Apple over Chinese working 
 conditions is unfortunately based on a lot of untruth exacerbated by the 
 infamous Mike Daisy.  For example the topic that started the media frenzy 
 originally was the supposed suicide cluster at Foxconn, Apple's major 
 Chinese assembler.  The reality which still very few media outlets mention 
 is that only 17 suicides were verified over a 5 year period.
 
 This may sound like a lot until you realise that if Foxconn had the same 
 suicide rate as the rest of China, they would have had 1,320 suicides over 
 that same timeframe out of their 1.2 million workers.
 
 Make no mistake about it, these sorts of complaints are nothing but 
 tall-poppy syndrome and sour grapes
 
 
 On 

Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Merv Bond]

No need to apologise, Mat. I thought the article would be provocative 
and I understand you shooting from the hip in your response. I am glad 
we are both on the same wave length with respect to ethical business 
practices.
Merv

On 17/09/12 8:52 PM, Martin Hill wrote:
 Merv, my apologies if I expressed myself a bit too strongly in my comment.  I 
 do in fact agree absolutely about the importance of ethical business 
 practices but feel the examples given in the article were just so inaccurate 
 as to damage the author's cause.

 I have been frustrated in recent years at the amount of unbalanced commentary 
 in much of the media about things like this. The continual tendency to tear 
 down those who do well that is such a feature of the Australian psyche is 
 unfortunately all too evident on the Internet as well.

 In the case of Apple it almost seems to be an orchestrated campaign for many 
 elements of the media to fixate on some manufactured negative issue with each 
 product release and blow it out of all proportion.  Examples include the lack 
 of a keyboard on the original iPhone, the non-removable battery, the 
 supposedly *hot* iPad which was cooler than most other tablets, the Aussie 4G 
 issue and now this $35 adapter.

 Where was the outcry when Samsung changed their adapter from their 30-pin 
 dock connector (which they copied from Apple) in the Galaxy S2 to the Galaxy 
 S3 without a free adapter for S2 owners?  What's wrong with buying a cheaper 
 third party adapter than Apple's for the new iPhone 5 - they're already being 
 advertised.

 Why should Apple give it away free? Apple already gives lots of free or cheap 
 stuff out - far cheaper OS update prices than Microsoft, far cheaper app 
 prices than desktop software, free iCloud services, the cheap cloud-hosted 
 iTunes Match service even for pirated music, free iOS system updates, free 
 Find My iPhone and Find my Friends apps, free Maps GPS navigation app, free 
 iTunes Remote app, etc etc.  How many gestures of goodwill does Apple have to 
 make? What's the big deal about this adapter?

 What other company has stuck with the same adapter and port on their devices 
 for a decade?  Why is there no outcry over the ridiculous number of different 
 USB port sizes and shapes out there that you have to buy different cables and 
 adapters for each different device? Why did I have to pay $400 for a new 
 remote key fob for my Landrover().  ;-(

 It is this unbalanced commentary that just gets my goat!

 -Mart


 On 17/09/2012, at 5:53 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 It is a common ploy to defend oneself by saying that everybody else is
 doing it. Throw in some adjectives such as silly, ridiculous and tall
 poppy syndrome to add to the mix. The issue of ethics in business is the
 sub-text of the article. At the more literal reading the author of the
 article was suggesting that a $35 adapter was a small amount for a
 company at the top of profit list in the world and would have been a
 gesture of goodwill to its devoted customers.
 Merv

 On 17/09/12 5:25 PM, Stephen Chape wrote:
 Well done Martin !

 On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill wrote:

 This is the reply I posted to the article below:

 I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why 
 don't you go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 
 for a replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of 
 corporate greed than Apple's little adapter.

 NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the 
 water as it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these 
 sorts of standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - 
 witness the time Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they 
 waited until there was enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for 
 consumers saving them the terrible battery life impact inherent with 
 jumping in too soon on early chipsets.

 Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
 International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual 
 carrier NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such 
 locally.

 It gives up to 42mbps speeds which is far faster than Vivid Wireless's 4G 
 WiMax network here in Australia which tops out at a pathetic 5mbps.   In 
 contrast, Apple's iPad 4G has demonstrated real-world speeds of 20mbps on 
 NextG in Australia.  Now you tell me who is putting one over the consumer 
 in that context?

 @David, this continued witch-hunt against Apple over Chinese working 
 conditions is unfortunately based on a lot of untruth exacerbated by the 
 infamous Mike Daisy.  For example the topic that started the media frenzy 
 originally was the supposed suicide cluster at Foxconn, Apple's major 
 Chinese assembler.  The reality which still very few media outlets mention 
 is that only 17 suicides were verified over a 5 year period.

 This may sound like a lot until you 

Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Peter Crisp]

G'day Martin, good dialogue on this one. 

Email me off line about Land Rover key fob replacement. I'm doing a battery 
replacement myself and new shell, all for $40 I hope. I hope I'm not too late 
for you.

Sorry for hijacking but wanted to help a fellow mugger.

Regards 

Pete
petercr...@westnet.com.au


On 17/09/2012, at 8:52 PM, Martin Hill marth...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Merv, my apologies if I expressed myself a bit too strongly in my comment.  I 
 do in fact agree absolutely about the importance of ethical business 
 practices but feel the examples given in the article were just so inaccurate 
 as to damage the author's cause.
 
 I have been frustrated in recent years at the amount of unbalanced commentary 
 in much of the media about things like this. The continual tendency to tear 
 down those who do well that is such a feature of the Australian psyche is 
 unfortunately all too evident on the Internet as well.  
 
 In the case of Apple it almost seems to be an orchestrated campaign for many 
 elements of the media to fixate on some manufactured negative issue with each 
 product release and blow it out of all proportion.  Examples include the lack 
 of a keyboard on the original iPhone, the non-removable battery, the 
 supposedly *hot* iPad which was cooler than most other tablets, the Aussie 4G 
 issue and now this $35 adapter.
 
 Where was the outcry when Samsung changed their adapter from their 30-pin 
 dock connector (which they copied from Apple) in the Galaxy S2 to the Galaxy 
 S3 without a free adapter for S2 owners?  What's wrong with buying a cheaper 
 third party adapter than Apple's for the new iPhone 5 - they're already being 
 advertised.  
 
 Why should Apple give it away free? Apple already gives lots of free or cheap 
 stuff out - far cheaper OS update prices than Microsoft, far cheaper app 
 prices than desktop software, free iCloud services, the cheap cloud-hosted 
 iTunes Match service even for pirated music, free iOS system updates, free 
 Find My iPhone and Find my Friends apps, free Maps GPS navigation app, free 
 iTunes Remote app, etc etc.  How many gestures of goodwill does Apple have to 
 make? What's the big deal about this adapter?
 
 What other company has stuck with the same adapter and port on their devices 
 for a decade?  Why is there no outcry over the ridiculous number of different 
 USB port sizes and shapes out there that you have to buy different cables and 
 adapters for each different device? Why did I have to pay $400 for a new 
 remote key fob for my Landrover().  ;-(
 
 It is this unbalanced commentary that just gets my goat!  
 
 -Mart
 
 
 On 17/09/2012, at 5:53 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:
 
 It is a common ploy to defend oneself by saying that everybody else is 
 doing it. Throw in some adjectives such as silly, ridiculous and tall 
 poppy syndrome to add to the mix. The issue of ethics in business is the 
 sub-text of the article. At the more literal reading the author of the 
 article was suggesting that a $35 adapter was a small amount for a 
 company at the top of profit list in the world and would have been a 
 gesture of goodwill to its devoted customers.
 Merv
 
 On 17/09/12 5:25 PM, Stephen Chape wrote:
 Well done Martin !
 
 On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill wrote:
 
 This is the reply I posted to the article below:
 
 I'm sorry, but complaining about a $35 adapter is frankly silly.  Why 
 don't you go complain about car manufacturers charging an atrocious $400 
 for a replacement key remote instead - a far more nefarious example of 
 corporate greed than Apple's little adapter.
 
 NFC has been termed Not For Commerce because it has been dead in the 
 water as it requires huge changes by retailers.  Apple only supports these 
 sorts of standards once they become widespread enough to be useful - 
 witness the time Apple took introducing 3G and 4G in their devices - they 
 waited until there was enough 3G and 4G coverage to be useful for 
 consumers saving them the terrible battery life impact inherent with 
 jumping in too soon on early chipsets.
 
 Likewise, the ACCC's crusade against Apple re 4G was ridiculous as the 
 International Telecommunications Union classes Telstra's HSPA+ dual 
 carrier NextG network as 4G even if Telstra doesn't advertise it as such 
 locally.
-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Rob Phillips]

G'day Mart and others,

This may be a bit heretical, but I have concerns how Apple is locking 
things down to its commercial benefit.

Let me give you a concrete example. I've just returned from a month 
hiking through Switzerland. (If you have the interest, check out 
http://www.everlater.com/raphillips1).

To prepare for this, I bought an iPad to: use to display Swiss 
topographical maps and record our track by GPS; to maintain a trip blog; 
to store and process Rita's photos; and do general web surfing.

The iPad was great except for one element. Photo management.  I was able 
to purchase an adaptor to download photos from the camera to the iPad. I 
had 15GB of DropBox space to backup the photos to the cloud. Everything 
was sweet.

Then I downloaded the first lot of photos, and I could see them on the 
iPad, but they weren't in the 'camera roll'. Only items in the camera 
roll can be synched to DropBox and Mobile me. By default, only photos 
taken with the iPad camera go in the camera roll.  The only way to get 
access to these photos seems to be to connect the iPad to a Mac 
registered to me, then upload/ download the photos to that machine.  I 
didn't have one of these with me!

Why does Apple restrict the functionality of powerful devices like the 
iPad so that it can only be used in ways that Apple determines, and 
which require other hardware.  The underlying OS should enable me to do 
much more.

I spent hours at nights trying to find apps to work around this, without 
much success. It shouldn't be so difficult.

I am concerned that I am being manipulated by Apple.

Cheers
Rob

On 17/09/12 9:30 PM, Peter Crisp wrote:
 G'day Martin, good dialogue on this one.

 Email me off line about Land Rover key fob replacement. I'm doing a battery 
 replacement myself and new shell, all for $40 I hope. I hope I'm not too 
 late for you.

 Sorry for hijacking but wanted to help a fellow mugger.

 Regards

 Pete
 petercr...@westnet.com.au


 On 17/09/2012, at 8:52 PM, Martin Hill marth...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 Merv, my apologies if I expressed myself a bit too strongly in my comment.  
 I do in fact agree absolutely about the importance of ethical business 
 practices but feel the examples given in the article were just so inaccurate 
 as to damage the author's cause.

 I have been frustrated in recent years at the amount of unbalanced 
 commentary in much of the media about things like this. The continual 
 tendency to tear down those who do well that is such a feature of the 
 Australian psyche is unfortunately all too evident on the Internet as well.

 In the case of Apple it almost seems to be an orchestrated campaign for many 
 elements of the media to fixate on some manufactured negative issue with 
 each product release and blow it out of all proportion.  Examples include 
 the lack of a keyboard on the original iPhone, the non-removable battery, 
 the supposedly *hot* iPad which was cooler than most other tablets, the 
 Aussie 4G issue and now this $35 adapter.

 Where was the outcry when Samsung changed their adapter from their 30-pin 
 dock connector (which they copied from Apple) in the Galaxy S2 to the Galaxy 
 S3 without a free adapter for S2 owners?  What's wrong with buying a cheaper 
 third party adapter than Apple's for the new iPhone 5 - they're already 
 being advertised.

 Why should Apple give it away free? Apple already gives lots of free or 
 cheap stuff out - far cheaper OS update prices than Microsoft, far cheaper 
 app prices than desktop software, free iCloud services, the cheap 
 cloud-hosted iTunes Match service even for pirated music, free iOS system 
 updates, free Find My iPhone and Find my Friends apps, free Maps GPS 
 navigation app, free iTunes Remote app, etc etc.  How many gestures of 
 goodwill does Apple have to make? What's the big deal about this adapter?

 What other company has stuck with the same adapter and port on their devices 
 for a decade?  Why is there no outcry over the ridiculous number of 
 different USB port sizes and shapes out there that you have to buy different 
 cables and adapters for each different device? Why did I have to pay $400 
 for a new remote key fob for my Landrover().  ;-(

 It is this unbalanced commentary that just gets my goat!

 -Mart


 On 17/09/2012, at 5:53 PM, Merv Bond m...@iinet.net.au wrote:

 It is a common ploy to defend oneself by saying that everybody else is
 doing it. Throw in some adjectives such as silly, ridiculous and tall
 poppy syndrome to add to the mix. The issue of ethics in business is the
 sub-text of the article. At the more literal reading the author of the
 article was suggesting that a $35 adapter was a small amount for a
 company at the top of profit list in the world and would have been a
 gesture of goodwill to its devoted customers.
 Merv

 On 17/09/12 5:25 PM, Stephen Chape wrote:
 Well done Martin !

 On 17/09/2012, at 2:31 PM, Martin Hill wrote:

 This is the reply I posted to the article below:

Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Ronda Brown]

Hi Rob,

Perhaps I'm not understanding your problem correctly.
The iPad version of the Dropbox mobile app allows you to upload any videos or 
photos synced to your gallery.

1. Open the Dropbox App, link to account etc.
2. Click the Box icon on the left hand side, a pop up opens
3. Click the uploads tab at the bottom, which is immediately next to the 
settings
4. Click the + at the top of the uploads section
The app still asks for permission to access your locations, (because photos 
can contain location data)
5. Tap the photos and videos you want to send to Dropbox from the resulting 
photo gallery.
6. Once done select 'Upload'

Cheers,
Ronni


On 17/09/2012, at 10:18 PM, Rob Phillips r.phill...@murdoch.edu.au wrote:

 G'day Mart and others,
 
 This may be a bit heretical, but I have concerns how Apple is locking 
 things down to its commercial benefit.
 
 Let me give you a concrete example. I've just returned from a month 
 hiking through Switzerland. (If you have the interest, check out 
 http://www.everlater.com/raphillips1).
 
 To prepare for this, I bought an iPad to: use to display Swiss 
 topographical maps and record our track by GPS; to maintain a trip blog; 
 to store and process Rita's photos; and do general web surfing.
 
 The iPad was great except for one element. Photo management.  I was able 
 to purchase an adaptor to download photos from the camera to the iPad. I 
 had 15GB of DropBox space to backup the photos to the cloud. Everything 
 was sweet.
 
 Then I downloaded the first lot of photos, and I could see them on the 
 iPad, but they weren't in the 'camera roll'. Only items in the camera 
 roll can be synched to DropBox and Mobile me. By default, only photos 
 taken with the iPad camera go in the camera roll.  The only way to get 
 access to these photos seems to be to connect the iPad to a Mac 
 registered to me, then upload/ download the photos to that machine.  I 
 didn't have one of these with me!
 
 Why does Apple restrict the functionality of powerful devices like the 
 iPad so that it can only be used in ways that Apple determines, and 
 which require other hardware.  The underlying OS should enable me to do 
 much more.
 
 I spent hours at nights trying to find apps to work around this, without 
 much success. It shouldn't be so difficult.
 
 I am concerned that I am being manipulated by Apple.
 
 Cheers
 Rob

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Re: Apple: some food for thought

[Rob Phillips]

Hi Ronni

I don't have the iPad here - it's still with the boss in Switzerland...

Your description of Dropbox is as I remember it, with one exception.

I don't remember seeing the + at the top of the uploads section. I could 
only see the contents of my camera roll, not the other events/albums 
(e.g. Last Imported) which I could see in the Photo App.

I was able to use the iResize App to access hi-res photos in Last 
Imported, and this inserted the compressed images into the Camera Roll, 
where Dropbox could see them and synch them, but I really wanted a 
backup of my originals.

Cheers
Rob

On 18/09/12 9:45 AM, Ronda Brown wrote:
 Hi Rob,

 Perhaps I'm not understanding your problem correctly.
 The iPad version of the Dropbox mobile app allows you to upload any videos or 
 photos synced to your gallery.

 1. Open the Dropbox App, link to account etc.
 2. Click the Box icon on the left hand side, a pop up opens
 3. Click the uploads tab at the bottom, which is immediately next to the 
 settings
 4. Click the + at the top of the uploads section
  The app still asks for permission to access your locations, (because 
 photos can contain location data)
 5. Tap the photos and videos you want to send to Dropbox from the resulting 
 photo gallery.
 6. Once done select 'Upload'

 Cheers,
 Ronni


 On 17/09/2012, at 10:18 PM, Rob Phillips r.phill...@murdoch.edu.au wrote:

 G'day Mart and others,

 This may be a bit heretical, but I have concerns how Apple is locking
 things down to its commercial benefit.

 Let me give you a concrete example. I've just returned from a month
 hiking through Switzerland. (If you have the interest, check out
 http://www.everlater.com/raphillips1).

 To prepare for this, I bought an iPad to: use to display Swiss
 topographical maps and record our track by GPS; to maintain a trip blog;
 to store and process Rita's photos; and do general web surfing.

 The iPad was great except for one element. Photo management.  I was able
 to purchase an adaptor to download photos from the camera to the iPad. I
 had 15GB of DropBox space to backup the photos to the cloud. Everything
 was sweet.

 Then I downloaded the first lot of photos, and I could see them on the
 iPad, but they weren't in the 'camera roll'. Only items in the camera
 roll can be synched to DropBox and Mobile me. By default, only photos
 taken with the iPad camera go in the camera roll.  The only way to get
 access to these photos seems to be to connect the iPad to a Mac
 registered to me, then upload/ download the photos to that machine.  I
 didn't have one of these with me!

 Why does Apple restrict the functionality of powerful devices like the
 iPad so that it can only be used in ways that Apple determines, and
 which require other hardware.  The underlying OS should enable me to do
 much more.

 I spent hours at nights trying to find apps to work around this, without
 much success. It shouldn't be so difficult.

 I am concerned that I am being manipulated by Apple.

 Cheers
 Rob
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Apple: some food for thought

[Merv Bond]

http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=33211
Merv
-- 
The whole psychology of modern disquiet is linked with the sudden 
confrontation with space-time. (Teilhard de Chardin, 'The Phenomenon of 
Man')
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