Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Paul K]

So if I agree with Matt's "Ridiculous" viewpoint is that bad? ;)

The irony in this threat is quite galling.
I cannot imagine the kind of complaints it may have 'contracted'.
That is because I likely have a very different viewpoint.
Different viewpoint, not bad viewpoint. Or offensive, or in contravention of
any group guidelines?
Just sensibilities?



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Paul K]

No need to apologise :)



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Rob Davies]

Morning All,

This post is contracting some complaints, and Matthews response with due 
Respect is Ridiculous.

So, I have responded of list to Matthew and apologise to WAMUG.

Cheers!
`RobD...

On 09Jul2011, at 10:37 pm, Matthew Healey wrote:

> 
> That depends entirely on what sort of internet connection I buy. Sure if I 
> use one of those 3G wireless sticks then yes, my connection is being NAT'd.
> If I buy a business internet account then I can get a nice little /16 with a 
> fully routed connection.
> If I buy a fibre connection from Amcom they give me a glass pair and ask me 
> what I want to plug it in to.
> 
> In all three scenarios I have a choice.
> 
> What's next… making VPN's and encryption illegal?
> 
> On 08/07/2011, at 7:52 PM, Rob Davies wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi Matthew,
>> 
>> I would hate to burst your bubble, but if you are connecting via PPoE, you 
>> connection is being NAT'd, monitored and filtered.
>> 
>> This is in response to peoples lack of understanding of how networks 
>> function, do you think ISP's will give people access without some form of 
>> control.
>> Just plugging a router, ADSL Modem into any PPoE connection and watch the 
>> amount of traffic attempting access.
>> What and whom do you think is stopping most of it getting into your system. 
>> If you do not see any then it definitely is being controlled.
>> 
>> I am totally surprised everyday the amount of routers which are connected 
>> without some form of firewall in place.
>> This is business and private usage, and yes a firewall is not the only 
>> answer. But, it is a start.
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> `RobD...
>> 
>> 
>> On 08Jul2011 at 10:00 am, Matthew Healey wrote:
>> ,
>>> 
>>> Hi Rob,
>>> 
>>> Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM 
>>> filters or Virus Scanners. That's the difference.
>>> 
>>> As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place 
>>> to block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to 
>>> their advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some 
>>> sort of boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't 
>>> someone please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.
>>> 
>>> - Matt
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> Guidelines - 
>>> Unsubscribe - 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Matthew Healey]

That depends entirely on what sort of internet connection I buy. Sure if I use 
one of those 3G wireless sticks then yes, my connection is being NAT'd.
If I buy a business internet account then I can get a nice little /16 with a 
fully routed connection.
If I buy a fibre connection from Amcom they give me a glass pair and ask me 
what I want to plug it in to.

In all three scenarios I have a choice.

What's next… making VPN's and encryption illegal?

On 08/07/2011, at 7:52 PM, Rob Davies wrote:

> 
> Hi Matthew,
> 
> I would hate to burst your bubble, but if you are connecting via PPoE, you 
> connection is being NAT'd, monitored and filtered.
> 
> This is in response to peoples lack of understanding of how networks 
> function, do you think ISP's will give people access without some form of 
> control.
> Just plugging a router, ADSL Modem into any PPoE connection and watch the 
> amount of traffic attempting access.
> What and whom do you think is stopping most of it getting into your system. 
> If you do not see any then it definitely is being controlled.
> 
> I am totally surprised everyday the amount of routers which are connected 
> without some form of firewall in place.
> This is business and private usage, and yes a firewall is not the only 
> answer. But, it is a start.
> 
> Cheers!
> `RobD...
> 
> 
> On 08Jul2011 at 10:00 am, Matthew Healey wrote:
> ,
>> 
>> Hi Rob,
>> 
>> Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM filters 
>> or Virus Scanners. That's the difference.
>> 
>> As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place 
>> to block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to 
>> their advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some 
>> sort of boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't 
>> someone please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.
>> 
>> - Matt
>> 
>> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Tim Law]

I've always been mindful that this is a Mac user group, and any computer query 
that I have that is not specifically Mac related, I do not post here. 

Whirlpool for example is a much more appropriate forum for broader policy 
discussion such as this. 
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/

Tim

On 09/07/2011, at 3:19 PM, Dark1 wrote:

> 
> I certainly think that censorship of the internet is a completely relevant 
> topic.  Censorship might of been in place for generations on books, films and 
> songs but it hasn't been in place (for most countries, including Australia) 
> at all yet for the internet and should it be implemented it's certainly not 
> going to be fair with a transparent and publicly accessible list for people 
> to make their own evaluations.
> 
> Ruben
> 
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I personally would like to see a more measured level of discussion on the 
>> WAMUG site. It would be unfortunate if a persons who visits the site looking 
>> for technical knowledge is driven away by fear of a heated political debate. 
>> There are many other places on the internet where we can get our fill of 
>> that. Censorship has be in place on books, films, and songs for generations 
>> in most modern democracies, and providing there is a publicly accessible, 
>> transparent list of what has been censored there will always be groups 
>> fighting vigorously to have the censorship dropped.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Carlo
>> 
>> 
>> On 2011-07-08, at 10:00, Matthew Healey wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Rob,
>>> 
>>> Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM 
>>> filters or Virus Scanners. That's the difference.
>>> 
>>> As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place 
>>> to block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to 
>>> their advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some 
>>> sort of boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't 
>>> someone please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.
>>> 
>>> - Matt
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Dark1]

I certainly think that censorship of the internet is a completely relevant 
topic.  Censorship might of been in place for generations on books, films and 
songs but it hasn't been in place (for most countries, including Australia) at 
all yet for the internet and should it be implemented it's certainly not going 
to be fair with a transparent and publicly accessible list for people to make 
their own evaluations.

Ruben

> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I personally would like to see a more measured level of discussion on the 
> WAMUG site. It would be unfortunate if a persons who visits the site looking 
> for technical knowledge is driven away by fear of a heated political debate. 
> There are many other places on the internet where we can get our fill of 
> that. Censorship has be in place on books, films, and songs for generations 
> in most modern democracies, and providing there is a publicly accessible, 
> transparent list of what has been censored there will always be groups 
> fighting vigorously to have the censorship dropped.
> 
> Cheers,
> Carlo
> 
> 
> On 2011-07-08, at 10:00, Matthew Healey wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi Rob,
>> 
>> Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM filters 
>> or Virus Scanners. That's the difference.
>> 
>> As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place 
>> to block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to 
>> their advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some 
>> sort of boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't 
>> someone please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.
>> 
>> - Matt
>> 
>> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Rob Davies]

Hi Matthew,

I would hate to burst your bubble, but if you are connecting via PPoE, you 
connection is being NAT'd, monitored and filtered.

This is in response to peoples lack of understanding of how networks function, 
do you think ISP's will give people access without some form of control.
Just plugging a router, ADSL Modem into any PPoE connection and watch the 
amount of traffic attempting access.
What and whom do you think is stopping most of it getting into your system. If 
you do not see any then it definitely is being controlled.

I am totally surprised everyday the amount of routers which are connected 
without some form of firewall in place.
This is business and private usage, and yes a firewall is not the only answer. 
But, it is a start.

Cheers!
`RobD...


On 08Jul2011 at 10:00 am, Matthew Healey wrote:
,
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM filters 
> or Virus Scanners. That's the difference.
> 
> As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place 
> to block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to 
> their advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some 
> sort of boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't 
> someone please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.
> 
> - Matt
> 
> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[cm]

Hi all,

I personally would like to see a more measured level of discussion on the WAMUG 
site. It would be unfortunate if a persons who visits the site looking for 
technical knowledge is driven away by fear of a heated political debate. There 
are many other places on the internet where we can get our fill of that. 
Censorship has be in place on books, films, and songs for generations in most 
modern democracies, and providing there is a publicly accessible, transparent 
list of what has been censored there will always be groups fighting vigorously 
to have the censorship dropped.

Cheers,
Carlo


On 2011-07-08, at 10:00, Matthew Healey wrote:

> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM filters 
> or Virus Scanners. That's the difference.
> 
> As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place 
> to block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to 
> their advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some 
> sort of boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't 
> someone please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.
> 
> - Matt
> 
> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Matthew Healey]

Hi Rob,

Don't confuse filtering with censoring. I can choose not to use SPAM filters or 
Virus Scanners. That's the difference.

As Ronni mentioned, the problem is that once the infrastructure is in place to 
block web sites at will, then those in power will use that ability to their 
advantage. These sorts of things are ALWAYS pushed though with some sort of 
boogie-man, be it communism, terrorism, national security or "Won't someone 
please think of the children!!". It's just a convenient scapegoat.

- Matt


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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Rob Davies]

Evening,
If you  are a Telstra customer and connected by such you are being filtered.

DNS as Ronni has stated before is to change an IP address into english, a URL.
Most sites they are chasing are IP based, so the filtering will be done before 
it reaches DNS servers.

OpenDNS servers are based within US, and yes your free downloads and other ISP 
benefits could be adjusted, or blocked.
But again most of these will be allocated by IP, so it could be a mute 
reasoning.

Personally, being in networking less traffic is a better solution, cost and 
performance.
Also as I have published you can improve your DNS, but there are consequences.
It is a small cog in a massive wheel which people take for granted, and are 
unsure, or just expect to work without knowing consequences.

Why do you think SPAM and Phishing attacks are successful.
ISP's have been filtering some of the net already (Virus scanning, SPAM 
filtering, Content Filtering), due to above reasoning.

Cheers!
`RobD...


On 07Jul2011, at 5:17 pm, Ronda Brown wrote:

> 
> On 07/07/2011, at 4:52 PM, Paul K wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM, cm  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Matt,
>> 
>> While I am not in favour censoring, we as yet have no indication at all that 
>> Telstra will do anything other than block child porn sites -- which to me 
>> isn't a bad thing. The worst case scenario is that some corrupt official 
>> manages to gain control of this process and by some as yet unexplained 
>> process turns this to his / her advantage by blocking sites that contain 
>> negative comments about them. If they are in the news they would have to 
>> block many of the major news sites as well such as the ABC.
>> 
>> I think it may be reaching somewhat to suggest that there is political 
>> censoring unless you are referring to the blocking of porn sites.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Carlo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Carlo,
>> 
>> As I read it, the general fear in many cases like this is that when given an 
>> inch people take a mile.
>> Folk are concerned that later on it's scope could be broadened to other 
>> areas deemed unsavory by the regulators.
>> One of history's lessons already learned by now I would have thought. No 
>> thanks little brother.
>> I don't know how to stop child porn but I doubt if this does the job.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Paul
> 
> I agree Paul,
> 
> Once they start censoring there is no stopping what they will censor and 
> eventually we ‘might’ end up with something similar to the “Great Firewall Of 
> China” (China’s misguided and futile attempt to control what happens online!
> 
> I would love to see Child Pornography completely stopped, but Censoring the 
> Internet will not stop Child Pornography?
> 
> One Article in the National Times here: 
> 
> 
> /Quote:
> "It is ironic that at the very point where Australia seeks recognition as a 
> world leader in its vision for a National Broadband Network it may also gain 
> censure as legitimating a range of repressive policies pursued by some of the 
> globe's least accountable governments. Further, given that the filter will 
> categorise and block websites, but not other ways of communicating digitally, 
> the highly illegal and abhorrent activities of those who peddle images of 
> child sexual abuse are likely to continue with little additional 
> inconvenience.”
> /End Quote
> 
> Cheers,
> Ronni
> 
> 17" MacBook Pro 2.3GHz Quad-Core i7 “Thunderbolt"
> 2.3GHz / 8GB / 750GB @ 7200rpm HD
> 
> OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
> Windows 7 Ultimate (under sufferance)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Ronda Brown]

On 07/07/2011, at 4:52 PM, Paul K wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM, cm  wrote:
> 
> Hi Matt,
> 
> While I am not in favour censoring, we as yet have no indication at all that 
> Telstra will do anything other than block child porn sites -- which to me 
> isn't a bad thing. The worst case scenario is that some corrupt official 
> manages to gain control of this process and by some as yet unexplained 
> process turns this to his / her advantage by blocking sites that contain 
> negative comments about them. If they are in the news they would have to 
> block many of the major news sites as well such as the ABC.
> 
> I think it may be reaching somewhat to suggest that there is political 
> censoring unless you are referring to the blocking of porn sites.
> 
> Cheers,
> Carlo
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Carlo,
> 
> As I read it, the general fear in many cases like this is that when given an 
> inch people take a mile.
> Folk are concerned that later on it's scope could be broadened to other areas 
> deemed unsavory by the regulators.
> One of history's lessons already learned by now I would have thought. No 
> thanks little brother.
> I don't know how to stop child porn but I doubt if this does the job.
> 
> Cheers
> Paul


I agree Paul,

Once they start censoring there is no stopping what they will censor and 
eventually we ‘might’ end up with something similar to the “Great Firewall Of 
China” (China’s misguided and futile attempt to control what happens online!

I would love to see Child Pornography completely stopped, but Censoring the 
Internet will not stop Child Pornography?

One Article in the National Times here: 


/Quote:
"It is ironic that at the very point where Australia seeks recognition as a 
world leader in its vision for a National Broadband Network it may also gain 
censure as legitimating a range of repressive policies pursued by some of the 
globe's least accountable governments. Further, given that the filter will 
categorise and block websites, but not other ways of communicating digitally, 
the highly illegal and abhorrent activities of those who peddle images of child 
sexual abuse are likely to continue with little additional inconvenience.”
/End Quote

Cheers,
Ronni

17" MacBook Pro 2.3GHz Quad-Core i7 “Thunderbolt"
2.3GHz / 8GB / 750GB @ 7200rpm HD

OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
Windows 7 Ultimate (under sufferance)
















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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Paul K]

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM, cm  wrote:

>
> Hi Matt,
>
> While I am not in favour censoring, we as yet have no indication at all
> that Telstra will do anything other than block child porn sites -- which to
> me isn't a bad thing. The worst case scenario is that some corrupt official
> manages to gain control of this process and by some as yet unexplained
> process turns this to his / her advantage by blocking sites that contain
> negative comments about them. If they are in the news they would have to
> block many of the major news sites as well such as the ABC.
>
> I think it may be reaching somewhat to suggest that there is political
> censoring unless you are referring to the blocking of porn sites.
>
> Cheers,
> Carlo
>
>

Hi Carlo,

As I read it, the general fear in many cases like this is that when given an
inch people take a mile.
Folk are concerned that later on it's scope could be broadened to other
areas deemed unsavory by the regulators.
One of history's lessons already learned by now I would have thought. No
thanks little brother.
I don't know how to stop child porn but I doubt if this does the job.

Cheers
Paul



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Neil Houghton]

I don't know about Google DNS - never tried it - but I have had the OpenDNS
servers set as the DNS servers in my Billion router for a couple of years
(at least) now and have noticed NO slowdown whatsoever.

I didn't bother with setting up an Open DNS account - I just use their DNS
servers.

I also note that they claim:

> Websites will load faster, and with OpenDNS' 100% up-time, you won't have to
> worry about unreachable websites and DNS outages from your ISP.

Since this is their primary business, I would imagine OpenDNS work haard to
avoid the sort of problems you describe?

Also, it's somewhat ironic that they are identified as one way to beat
Telstra's filter - one of the things they DO offer is:

> Robust Web content filtering
> 
> With over 50 customizable filtering categories, OpenDNS Web content filtering
> keeps employees productive at work, and keeps parents and teachers in control
> of what websites children visit at home and at school.



Cheers



Neil
-- 
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: n...@possumology.com



on 7/7/11 2:54 PM, Matthew Healey at mat...@mac.com wrote:

> 
> On 06/07/2011, at 11:00 AM, Neil Houghton wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I have to agree.
>> 
>> I have used OpenDNS for quite some time now ­ started when there was a DNS
>> security scare some time ago ­ the scare soon came & went as the ISPs got on
>> top of it but I left it set up with open DNS anyway. It occasionally refuses
>> to load some sites which are on some phishing/scam type blacklists and
>> offers some tools when sites refuse to load.
> 
> OpenDNS is a great tool, as I Google DNS. But using a server other than your
> ISP's breaks content delivery networks quite badly.
> 
> As an example, I was downloading "something large" from a special
> Akamai-hosted Apple server and was only getting about 200Kbs. This is FAR
> below was I would normally expect from a server that is sitting someone on the
> iINet network. The problem was that a few days prior I had hard-coded my DNS
> server to Google (8.8.8.8) to do some tests. Once I realised this, I returned
> my DNS to the appropriate setting and my download came through at about 5Mbs.
> 
> So that's the catch for Telstra/Optus customers now.
> 
> Use Telstra/Optus DNS and have your connection politically censored
> 
> or
> 
> use third part DNS and receive a sub-par service when viewing anything on a
> content delivery network.
> 
> - Matt
> 
> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[cm]

Hi Matt,

While I am not in favour censoring, we as yet have no indication at all that 
Telstra will do anything other than block child porn sites -- which to me isn't 
a bad thing. The worst case scenario is that some corrupt official manages to 
gain control of this process and by some as yet unexplained process turns this 
to his / her advantage by blocking sites that contain negative comments about 
them. If they are in the news they would have to block many of the major news 
sites as well such as the ABC.

I think it may be reaching somewhat to suggest that there is political 
censoring unless you are referring to the blocking of porn sites.

Cheers,
Carlo

On 2011-07-07, at 14:54, Matthew Healey wrote:

> 
> On 06/07/2011, at 11:00 AM, Neil Houghton wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I have to agree.
>> 
>> I have used OpenDNS for quite some time now – started when there was a DNS
>> security scare some time ago – the scare soon came & went as the ISPs got on
>> top of it but I left it set up with open DNS anyway. It occasionally refuses
>> to load some sites which are on some phishing/scam type blacklists and
>> offers some tools when sites refuse to load.
> 
> OpenDNS is a great tool, as I Google DNS. But using a server other than your 
> ISP's breaks content delivery networks quite badly.
> 
> As an example, I was downloading "something large" from a special 
> Akamai-hosted Apple server and was only getting about 200Kbs. This is FAR 
> below was I would normally expect from a server that is sitting someone on 
> the iINet network. The problem was that a few days prior I had hard-coded my 
> DNS server to Google (8.8.8.8) to do some tests. Once I realised this, I 
> returned my DNS to the appropriate setting and my download came through at 
> about 5Mbs.
> 
> So that's the catch for Telstra/Optus customers now.
> 
> Use Telstra/Optus DNS and have your connection politically censored
> 
> or
> 
> use third part DNS and receive a sub-par service when viewing anything on a 
> content delivery network.
> 
> - Matt
> 
> 
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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Matthew Healey]

On 06/07/2011, at 11:00 AM, Neil Houghton wrote:

> Yes, I have to agree.
> 
> I have used OpenDNS for quite some time now – started when there was a DNS
> security scare some time ago – the scare soon came & went as the ISPs got on
> top of it but I left it set up with open DNS anyway. It occasionally refuses
> to load some sites which are on some phishing/scam type blacklists and
> offers some tools when sites refuse to load.

OpenDNS is a great tool, as I Google DNS. But using a server other than your 
ISP's breaks content delivery networks quite badly.

As an example, I was downloading "something large" from a special Akamai-hosted 
Apple server and was only getting about 200Kbs. This is FAR below was I would 
normally expect from a server that is sitting someone on the iINet network. The 
problem was that a few days prior I had hard-coded my DNS server to Google 
(8.8.8.8) to do some tests. Once I realised this, I returned my DNS to the 
appropriate setting and my download came through at about 5Mbs.

So that's the catch for Telstra/Optus customers now.

Use Telstra/Optus DNS and have your connection politically censored

or

use third part DNS and receive a sub-par service when viewing anything on a 
content delivery network.

- Matt


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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Neil Houghton]

Yes, I have to agree.

I have used OpenDNS for quite some time now ­ started when there was a DNS
security scare some time ago ­ the scare soon came & went as the ISPs got on
top of it but I left it set up with open DNS anyway. It occasionally refuses
to load some sites which are on some phishing/scam type blacklists and
offers some tools when sites refuse to load.

OpenDNS has been mentioned several times on this list ­ in fact, I think
that is how I first learned of it.

Anyway, the point is, it has been offering various quite legitimate
services/feature for quite some time and I am a happy user.

So now we have the filter, it is apparently trivial to bypass it by using a
service like Open DNS. This fact ha been publicised by opponents/critics of
the filter.

So now we get articles like this on SMH:


> An internet filter designed to block access to child pornography, which is
> being imposed on Optus and Telstra customers, is "trivial" to bypass, say
> civil libertarians.
And then

> It was a "pretty big decision to take" if a person who really wanted to access
> child pornography circumvented a filter, he said.
> 
> "You can bypass these [filters] just as you can hotwire a car to steal it or
> force entry into a home," he said. "But at that point you're departing from
> the normal social behaviours and entering the criminal world. I just wonder
> what the point of that exercise would be."
> 


So, apparently, by using OpenDNS (as I have been doing for several years) I
am "hot-wiring" the internet and departing from the normal social behaviours
and entering the criminal world - and I would only be doing that to to
access child pornography or for some other nefarious purpose!!!

I find it particularly disturbing that the above quote, by the way, is
attributed to Spokesman for the Internet Industry Association (IIA), Peter
Coroneos.

So I have to agree with Paul. I think that is a technology issue that
concerns us all as internet users, regardless of your personal political
opinions.

Unfortunately, whilst the technology issue itself crosses the political
divide, when you start seeing quotes like thee one above, you can be sure
that politic isn't far away :o(


Just my apolitical 2c worth.


Cheers



Neil
-- 
Neil R. Houghton
Albany, Western Australia
Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
Email: n...@possumology.com




on 6/7/11 9:16 AM, Paul K at logry...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Political opinions when they relate to information technology issues too?
> 
> Cheers
> Paul
> 







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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Tom Hogarth]

OMG

Some people would say *simply *owning an apple mac computer is a political
statement

just try making fun of a PC based user with ''so youre using the dark
side?''

and see how some take the bait some dont

I would strongly suggest if anyone feels that comic or sarcastic asides
about systems, providers, and software *dosnt* involve an element of
politics,
then there is a serious issue more in* that *perception...


cheers

Tom H


On 6 July 2011 09:16, Paul K  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Political opinions when they relate to information technology issues too?
>
> Cheers
> Paul
>



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Eugene]

This is a technology forum and I am open to any discussion that informs me of matters that may effect me.I applaud balanced, educated opinions related to technology even if they're political issues like National Broadband. How else will I keep informed without being influenced by our biased media? As the heading of this thread suggests Telstra is making decisions which will effect us and this is politically motivated - I do want to know about this and I do appreciated the very educated opinion of the WAMUG community.Let us not quash healthy open technology related discussion, if we start drawing lines on what can be discussed and what can't be discussed we might threaten the colour of this very valuable forum. How bland if WAMUG simply becomes a venue littered with threads on how to eject stuck DVDs.
                      Regards,                      Eugene                  

On 06/07/2011, at 9:16 AM, Paul K wrote:Hi,Political opinions when they relate to information technology issues too?CheersPaul




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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Paul K]

Hi,

Political opinions when they relate to information technology issues too?

Cheers
Paul



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Jennifer Lefroy]

Is the WAMUG mailing list really the appropriate place to express political
opinions?  I would prefer to see them left out.
Regards,
Jennifer

On 4 July 2011 08:18, Paul K  wrote:

> Groovy, policy through magic. What is this, Hogwarts?
>



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Paul K]

Groovy, policy through magic. What is this, Hogwarts?



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Re: Telstra starts censoring the internet

[Matthew Healey]

This is the payoff for "winning" the NBN contract. You'll note that Internode, 
who was very vocal in opposition to the filter, has been all but shut out of 
the NBN.

Conroy needs the Family First loonies to support Labor to retain government. 
This is what it cost.

On 03/07/2011, at 11:13 AM, Paul K wrote:

> Different to the Govt.'s filter? I agree with you Matt.




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[Paul K]

Different to the Govt.'s filter? I agree with you Matt.



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