[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Andrea Zanni]

[sorry for cross-posting]

Hello everyone,
I would like spend a minute thanking Wikimedia Deutschland for organizing
the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, and thanking everyone who participated
in it.

I'd like to say out loud that I really liked the atmosphere, that I enjoy
more and more the simple fact that when we are together (chapters, WMF,
affiliates, user groups, everyone) we feel like a movement, we act like a
movement, we work and eat and drink and dance together and we argue much
less than when we are online, typing in front of screens.

Yes, it not easy and cheap to travel half the world just to meet in person.
Yes, there are differences and past and present disagremeents, but when we
can actually *talk* they just fade back.

I think it is important (at least sometimes) to use wikimedia-l (as other
mailing lists) to discuss things that work :-), to express gratitude and
say out loud things that pleased us.

I, for example, learned a lot about the ongoing transformation of the
Wikimedia Foundation: many things are changing, they are working a lot, and
very often we as affiliates do not notice these things.
I saw many changes towards a better, more open and more collaborative
Foundation, and I don't know many times I heard WMF employees asking for
feedback and help.

So.
This is a open and shameless request for assumption of good faith, request
I'd like to make to all of us.
We'll have plenty of time to argue and discuss again,
but let's take a moment to celebrate what we are and the fact that with our
collaborative effort the world sucks a little less.
It's time that we rebuild the a "we", as in "We, Wikimedia".

Have a nice weekend.

Aubrey
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015 - Registration closes in one week!

[Daniela Gentner]

Dear Wikimedians,

You have not yet registered for the Wikimedia Conference 2015 in Berlin?
You want to shape the future of the Wikimedia movement? You want to meet,
exchange and mingle with other movement enthusiasts from around the world?

Then please be kindly reminded to register until Monday, March 16, 2015.
You have only one week left!

Please be aware that only registered participants are allowed to attend the
Wikimedia Conference.

Please find the link to the registration here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015/Registration

Today we have 31 affiliates whose representatives have registered for the
conference. You are curious about who will come to Berlin?

Here is the list of all registered participants:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015/Participants

Registration from the following affiliations are still missing. We would
love to welcome you as well, so please register within the next days.

=Chapters=
- Wikimedia Belgium
- Wikimedia Chile
- Wikimedia Česká republika
- Wikimedia Danmark
- Wikimedia Eesti
- Wikimedia España
- Wikimedia Suomi
- Wikimedia Hong Kong
- Wikimédia Magyarország
- Wikimedia Norge
- Wikimedia Polska
- Wikimedia Serbia
- Wikimedia Ukraine
- Wikimedia UK
- Wikimedia New York City
- Wikimedia Uruguay
- Wikimedia Venezuela
- Amical Wikimedia

=User Groups=
- Persian Wiki User Group
- Wikimedians of Bulgaria User Group
- Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil
- Wikimedia Community User Group Côte d'Ivoire
- Wikimedia User Group China
- Wikimedians of Colombia User Group
- Algeria Wikimedians User Group
- Wikimedia Community User Group Greece
- Wikimedia Community Ireland User Group
- Wikimedians of Iceland User Group
- Wikimedians of Nepal
- Wikimedians in Thailand
- Wiki Project Med
- MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group
- MediaWiki Farmers User Group

=Others=
- India Access To Knowledge

Please do not hesitate to reach out to us any time via wm...@wikimedia.de
should you have any questions or comments.

Best regards and see you soon in Berlin,

Daniela on behalf of the event team

Wikimedia Deutschland
wm...@wikimedia.de
-- 
Daniela Gentner
Team Event

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Nicole Ebber]

Greetings!

I have also added my 2 cents to the Meta page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AFuture_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference&diff=9881528&oldid=9861306

Regards,
Nicole

On 12 September 2014 15:31, Leigh Thelmadatter  wrote:
> For what its worth, I just added another 2 cents over at 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
>
>
>
>> From: e...@wikimanialondon.org
>> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:58:00 +0100
>> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015
>>
>> The name of a conference is typically a descriptor of the contents of the
>> programme rather than of the attendees :)
>>
>> *Edward Saperia*
>> Conference Director Wikimania London <http://www.wikimanialondon.org>
>> email  • facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia> • twitter
>> <http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia> • 07796955572
>> 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
>>
>> On 12 September 2014 13:49, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>>
>> > It's not the word Conference, is the word Wikimedia that address people to
>> > consider it as an event for the Wikimedia movement.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Chris Keating > > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The word "Conference" doesn't in itself imply that an event is open or
>> > > closed.
>> > >
>> > > C
>> > > On 12 Sep 2014 13:06, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > But Wikimania is not only a Wikimedia Conference.
>> > > >
>> > > > It's a conference open to all people outside the Wikimedia movement.
>> > > >
>> > > > If the name should be as much as possible "explicative", the switch
>> > from
>> > > > Wikimania to Wikimedia Conference is inappropriate.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
>> > > > > something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
>> > > > > WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ,Wil
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli > > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other
>> > > questions
>> > > > > > concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation
>> > instead
>> > > > of
>> > > > > > speaking of a name.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Ilario Valdelli
>> > > > Wikimedia CH
>> > > > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
>> > > > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
>> > > > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
>> > > > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
>> > > > Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
>> > > > Skype: valdelli
>> > > > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli>
>> > > > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli>
>> > > > Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli <
>> > > http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469
>> > > > >
>> > > > Tel: +41764821371
>> > > > http://www.wikimedia.ch
>> > > > ___
>> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > > ___
>> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Leigh Thelmadatter]

For what its worth, I just added another 2 cents over at 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference



> From: e...@wikimanialondon.org
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:58:00 +0100
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015
> 
> The name of a conference is typically a descriptor of the contents of the
> programme rather than of the attendees :)
> 
> *Edward Saperia*
> Conference Director Wikimania London <http://www.wikimanialondon.org>
> email  • facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia> • twitter
> <http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia> • 07796955572
> 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG
> 
> On 12 September 2014 13:49, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
> 
> > It's not the word Conference, is the word Wikimedia that address people to
> > consider it as an event for the Wikimedia movement.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Chris Keating  > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The word "Conference" doesn't in itself imply that an event is open or
> > > closed.
> > >
> > > C
> > > On 12 Sep 2014 13:06, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > But Wikimania is not only a Wikimedia Conference.
> > > >
> > > > It's a conference open to all people outside the Wikimedia movement.
> > > >
> > > > If the name should be as much as possible "explicative", the switch
> > from
> > > > Wikimania to Wikimedia Conference is inappropriate.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
> > > > > something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
> > > > > WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.
> > > > >
> > > > > ,Wil
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli  > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other
> > > questions
> > > > > > concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation
> > instead
> > > > of
> > > > > > speaking of a name.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Ilario Valdelli
> > > > Wikimedia CH
> > > > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > > > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> > > > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> > > > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> > > > Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
> > > > Skype: valdelli
> > > > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli>
> > > > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli>
> > > > Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli <
> > > http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469
> > > > >
> > > > Tel: +41764821371
> > > > http://www.wikimedia.ch
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ilario Valdelli
> > Wikimedia CH
> > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> > Wikipedia: Ilario <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ilario>
> > Skype: valdelli
> > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli <https://www.facebook.com/ivaldelli>
> > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli <https://twitter.com/ilariovaldelli>
> > Link

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Edward Saperia]

The name of a conference is typically a descriptor of the contents of the
programme rather than of the attendees :)

*Edward Saperia*
Conference Director Wikimania London 
email  • facebook
 • twitter
 • 07796955572
133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG

On 12 September 2014 13:49, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> It's not the word Conference, is the word Wikimedia that address people to
> consider it as an event for the Wikimedia movement.
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Chris Keating  >
> wrote:
>
> > The word "Conference" doesn't in itself imply that an event is open or
> > closed.
> >
> > C
> > On 12 Sep 2014 13:06, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
> >
> > > But Wikimania is not only a Wikimedia Conference.
> > >
> > > It's a conference open to all people outside the Wikimedia movement.
> > >
> > > If the name should be as much as possible "explicative", the switch
> from
> > > Wikimania to Wikimedia Conference is inappropriate.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
> > > > something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
> > > > WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.
> > > >
> > > > ,Wil
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other
> > questions
> > > > > concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation
> instead
> > > of
> > > > > speaking of a name.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ilario Valdelli
> > > Wikimedia CH
> > > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> > > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> > > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> > > Wikipedia: Ilario 
> > > Skype: valdelli
> > > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli 
> > > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli 
> > > Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli <
> > http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469
> > > >
> > > Tel: +41764821371
> > > http://www.wikimedia.ch
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Wikipedia: Ilario 
> Skype: valdelli
> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli 
> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli 
> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli  >
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

It's not the word Conference, is the word Wikimedia that address people to
consider it as an event for the Wikimedia movement.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Chris Keating 
wrote:

> The word "Conference" doesn't in itself imply that an event is open or
> closed.
>
> C
> On 12 Sep 2014 13:06, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
>
> > But Wikimania is not only a Wikimedia Conference.
> >
> > It's a conference open to all people outside the Wikimedia movement.
> >
> > If the name should be as much as possible "explicative", the switch from
> > Wikimania to Wikimedia Conference is inappropriate.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
> > > something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
> > > WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.
> > >
> > > ,Wil
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other
> questions
> > > > concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation instead
> > of
> > > > speaking of a name.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Ilario Valdelli
> > Wikimedia CH
> > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> > Wikipedia: Ilario 
> > Skype: valdelli
> > Facebook: Ilario Valdelli 
> > Twitter: Ilario Valdelli 
> > Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli <
> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=6724469
> > >
> > Tel: +41764821371
> > http://www.wikimedia.ch
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Wikipedia: Ilario 
Skype: valdelli
Facebook: Ilario Valdelli 
Twitter: Ilario Valdelli 
Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli 
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Chris Keating]

The word "Conference" doesn't in itself imply that an event is open or
closed.

C
On 12 Sep 2014 13:06, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:

> But Wikimania is not only a Wikimedia Conference.
>
> It's a conference open to all people outside the Wikimedia movement.
>
> If the name should be as much as possible "explicative", the switch from
> Wikimania to Wikimedia Conference is inappropriate.
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:
>
> >
> > We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
> > something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
> > WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.
> >
> > ,Wil
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other questions
> > > concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation instead
> of
> > > speaking of a name.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Wikipedia: Ilario 
> Skype: valdelli
> Facebook: Ilario Valdelli 
> Twitter: Ilario Valdelli 
> Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli  >
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

But Wikimania is not only a Wikimedia Conference.

It's a conference open to all people outside the Wikimedia movement.

If the name should be as much as possible "explicative", the switch from
Wikimania to Wikimedia Conference is inappropriate.

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:

>
> We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
> something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
> WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.
>
> ,Wil
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli 
> wrote:
>
> > I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other questions
> > concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation instead of
> > speaking of a name.
>
>

-- 
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Wikipedia: Ilario 
Skype: valdelli
Facebook: Ilario Valdelli 
Twitter: Ilario Valdelli 
Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli 
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[John Mark Vandenberg]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Wil Sinclair  wrote:
> Actually, I'd like to speak up on the name.
>
> I imagine the name reflected the enthusiasm of its first attendees,
> but "Wikimania" has all the wrong connotations in today's world. True
> mania is marked by little control, commitment, and rest. It also
> implies that attendees have to be dyed-in-the-wool, unquestioning, and
> supremely devoted editors. I hope that's not the case. I doubt it's
> more welcoming for highly enthusiastic beginners, but it might
> convince casual editors who are more interested in the topics covered
> in our articles than the project itself that it's not for them.
>
> Moreover, mania is no joke. Some people suffer greatly from disorders
> like bipolar depression. We wouldn't call a conference WikiADHD (which
> is, as I have been very public about, something I suffer from). It's
> uncool to make light of it in any way, even when unintended.
>
> We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
> something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
> WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.

+1

please.

-- 
John Vandenberg

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Wil Sinclair]

Actually, I'd like to speak up on the name.

I imagine the name reflected the enthusiasm of its first attendees,
but "Wikimania" has all the wrong connotations in today's world. True
mania is marked by little control, commitment, and rest. It also
implies that attendees have to be dyed-in-the-wool, unquestioning, and
supremely devoted editors. I hope that's not the case. I doubt it's
more welcoming for highly enthusiastic beginners, but it might
convince casual editors who are more interested in the topics covered
in our articles than the project itself that it's not for them.

Moreover, mania is no joke. Some people suffer greatly from disorders
like bipolar depression. We wouldn't call a conference WikiADHD (which
is, as I have been very public about, something I suffer from). It's
uncool to make light of it in any way, even when unintended.

We can be both more sensible and sensitive by calling this conference
something else. As has been suggested, Wikimedia Conference (maybe
WikiCon for short) would be more appropriate.

,Wil

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other questions
> concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation instead of
> speaking of a name.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

What I have said is simple.

Wikimania does its own job. A second Wikimania doesn't make sense.

Regional and thematic are important and can help a support the movement.

Regional conferences collect people around a region or continent and there
is no obligation to speak English (Iberoconf is an example).

Are they efficient? Yes, they are efficient because they help to keep the
link with local people not fluent in English.

Thematic conferences help to focus in a theme, so there is all advantages
of Wikimania.

Are they efficient? Yes, they are because people can focus on a theme which
can be GLAM or affiliations and so on.

A big annual event (Wikimania) with a series of local and thematic
"Wikimedia Conferences" is the best compromise in terms of costs and
efficiency.

Being in Wikimedia movement from 2005 I have seen every year discussions
like this but every year a big Wikimania and a series of smaller
conferences.

Probably it works.

I would really appreciate if the discussion can move in other questions
concerning for instance the cost saving and the participation instead of
speaking of a name.


On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Pine W  wrote:

> Regional conferences are easier to attend for the locals, but...
>
> * There would be less mixing of people and thematic organizations from
> different regions
> * WMF's travel costs would skyrocket if it tried to send the same number of
> people to several regional events, and WMF would also likely have
> significant duplication of effort and need to invest a lot more of its
> staff time attending diverse conferences.
>
> Regional conferences can certainly happen, but they would be less efficient
> and effective if their goal is to have cross-pollination of ideas among
> thematic organizations and WMF. A smaller number of conferences would be
> more efficient.
>
> Perhaps a happy medium between having lots of regional conferences and a
> smaller number of international conferences would be to hold several
> regional conferences simultaneously and invest in some excellent
> teleconferencing hardware and high-speed internet bandwidth so that it's
> possible for participants in multiple locations to virtually participate in
> the same meetings. However, there would be a significant up-front
> investment in hardware and the bandwidth costs might be substantial, so I'm
> not sure how cost-effective this would be.
>
> Pine
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Ilario Valdelli 
> wrote:
>
> > Wikimedia is a community of communities.
> >
> > So basically Wikimania can be the unique Wikimedia Conference.
> >
> > But we can come back to the first question. Would we really have a second
> > Wikimania in the first quarter of any year because the name Wikimedia
> > Conference should exclude no one?
> >
> > Would we really have a second big event calling people from all the world
> > and spending a lot of time in the organization and setup?
> >
> > Or probably the best solution would be several (less expensive) regional
> > and thematic conferences called "Wikimedia conference X"? Where people
> > coming will focus on a thematic agenda?
> >
> > There is no problem in my opinion to close the discussion saying that
> > Wikimedia Conference is a name released in cc-by-sa 3.0 and people can
> use
> > it and redistribute it and modify it.
> >
> > So the Wikimedia Conference as is can become "Wikimedia Conferences 2015
> > for affiliated", and there may be "Wikimedia Conference 2015 for Asia"
> and
> > "Wikimedia Conference 2015 for GLAM" and so on.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:43 AM, Risker  wrote:
> >
> > > On 11 September 2014 22:07, Charles Gregory 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has
> > > gradually
> > > > evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate
> > > > organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc.  I don't
> think
> > > > anyone is suggesting any revolutionary changes for the next one?
> Just
> > a
> > > > change in name to suit the current audience.
> > > >
> > > > What's the problem with the name "Wikimedia" being used?  It is,
> after
> > > all,
> > > > a conference involving Wikimedians.  It appears the main complaint is
> > the
> > > > over-generic title "Wikimedia Conference".
> > > >
> > > > Charles (User:Chuq)
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are correct, Chuq.  "Wikimedia" by itself is the entire movement.
> > It's
> > > not a subgroup of the movement, which is what the chapters and
> affiliated
> > > organizations are as a group.  We don't call the hackathons "Wikimedia
> > > Conference", nor do we call the diversity conferences "Wikimedia
> > > Conference", yet arguably they are even more representative of
> Wikimedia
> > > (the movement) than this particular conference is; while attendees are
> > > largely self-selected, they are open to anyone who has the means and
> will
> > > to attend. What's been known in the past as the "Wikimedia Conference"
> is
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Philippe Beaudette]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:52 PM, Lodewijk 
wrote:

> I suggest we use 'the Oompa Loompa discussion meeting' and
> be done with it.
>

Ah, but what COLOR are the oompa loompas?


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :  @Philippewiki

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Pine W]

Regional conferences are easier to attend for the locals, but...

* There would be less mixing of people and thematic organizations from
different regions
* WMF's travel costs would skyrocket if it tried to send the same number of
people to several regional events, and WMF would also likely have
significant duplication of effort and need to invest a lot more of its
staff time attending diverse conferences.

Regional conferences can certainly happen, but they would be less efficient
and effective if their goal is to have cross-pollination of ideas among
thematic organizations and WMF. A smaller number of conferences would be
more efficient.

Perhaps a happy medium between having lots of regional conferences and a
smaller number of international conferences would be to hold several
regional conferences simultaneously and invest in some excellent
teleconferencing hardware and high-speed internet bandwidth so that it's
possible for participants in multiple locations to virtually participate in
the same meetings. However, there would be a significant up-front
investment in hardware and the bandwidth costs might be substantial, so I'm
not sure how cost-effective this would be.

Pine

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> Wikimedia is a community of communities.
>
> So basically Wikimania can be the unique Wikimedia Conference.
>
> But we can come back to the first question. Would we really have a second
> Wikimania in the first quarter of any year because the name Wikimedia
> Conference should exclude no one?
>
> Would we really have a second big event calling people from all the world
> and spending a lot of time in the organization and setup?
>
> Or probably the best solution would be several (less expensive) regional
> and thematic conferences called "Wikimedia conference X"? Where people
> coming will focus on a thematic agenda?
>
> There is no problem in my opinion to close the discussion saying that
> Wikimedia Conference is a name released in cc-by-sa 3.0 and people can use
> it and redistribute it and modify it.
>
> So the Wikimedia Conference as is can become "Wikimedia Conferences 2015
> for affiliated", and there may be "Wikimedia Conference 2015 for Asia" and
> "Wikimedia Conference 2015 for GLAM" and so on.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:43 AM, Risker  wrote:
>
> > On 11 September 2014 22:07, Charles Gregory  wrote:
> >
> > > ... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has
> > gradually
> > > evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate
> > > organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc.  I don't think
> > > anyone is suggesting any revolutionary changes for the next one?  Just
> a
> > > change in name to suit the current audience.
> > >
> > > What's the problem with the name "Wikimedia" being used?  It is, after
> > all,
> > > a conference involving Wikimedians.  It appears the main complaint is
> the
> > > over-generic title "Wikimedia Conference".
> > >
> > > Charles (User:Chuq)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You are correct, Chuq.  "Wikimedia" by itself is the entire movement.
> It's
> > not a subgroup of the movement, which is what the chapters and affiliated
> > organizations are as a group.  We don't call the hackathons "Wikimedia
> > Conference", nor do we call the diversity conferences "Wikimedia
> > Conference", yet arguably they are even more representative of Wikimedia
> > (the movement) than this particular conference is; while attendees are
> > largely self-selected, they are open to anyone who has the means and will
> > to attend. What's been known in the past as the "Wikimedia Conference" is
> > essentially a by-invitation conference that is not representative of the
> > movement.
> >
> > It's a big movement with lots of parts.  A better argument could be made
> > for renaming Wikimania the Wikimedia Conference than using that term for
> a
> > conference restricted to one small branch of the movement.  Many
> > Wikimedians over the years, particularly those who are highly active in
> > core movement activities but not chapter/affiliate activities, have felt
> > disenfranchised and marginalized by having the name of the movement to
> > which they make their contributions used for a conference at which they
> > will never be welcome.
> >
> > And the other reason for changing the name to be more representative of
> > what the conference is that it sets the tone for the agenda.  The focus
> of
> > the conference is, at least in theory, chapters and affiliated groups:
> what
> > they can learn from each other, sharing of tools and ideas, making
> > connections within and external to the Wikimedia movement, etc.  It's not
> > Wikimedia as a whole; it's far too exclusive (and exclusionary) for the
> > movement as a whole to be the focus of the conference.
> >
> > From a different perspective, let's compare ourselves to other
> conferences
> > that succeed because of their focus:  A conference for
> gastroenterologists
> > isn't

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

Wikimedia is a community of communities.

So basically Wikimania can be the unique Wikimedia Conference.

But we can come back to the first question. Would we really have a second
Wikimania in the first quarter of any year because the name Wikimedia
Conference should exclude no one?

Would we really have a second big event calling people from all the world
and spending a lot of time in the organization and setup?

Or probably the best solution would be several (less expensive) regional
and thematic conferences called "Wikimedia conference X"? Where people
coming will focus on a thematic agenda?

There is no problem in my opinion to close the discussion saying that
Wikimedia Conference is a name released in cc-by-sa 3.0 and people can use
it and redistribute it and modify it.

So the Wikimedia Conference as is can become "Wikimedia Conferences 2015
for affiliated", and there may be "Wikimedia Conference 2015 for Asia" and
"Wikimedia Conference 2015 for GLAM" and so on.



On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:43 AM, Risker  wrote:

> On 11 September 2014 22:07, Charles Gregory  wrote:
>
> > ... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has
> gradually
> > evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate
> > organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc.  I don't think
> > anyone is suggesting any revolutionary changes for the next one?  Just a
> > change in name to suit the current audience.
> >
> > What's the problem with the name "Wikimedia" being used?  It is, after
> all,
> > a conference involving Wikimedians.  It appears the main complaint is the
> > over-generic title "Wikimedia Conference".
> >
> > Charles (User:Chuq)
> >
> >
>
> You are correct, Chuq.  "Wikimedia" by itself is the entire movement. It's
> not a subgroup of the movement, which is what the chapters and affiliated
> organizations are as a group.  We don't call the hackathons "Wikimedia
> Conference", nor do we call the diversity conferences "Wikimedia
> Conference", yet arguably they are even more representative of Wikimedia
> (the movement) than this particular conference is; while attendees are
> largely self-selected, they are open to anyone who has the means and will
> to attend. What's been known in the past as the "Wikimedia Conference" is
> essentially a by-invitation conference that is not representative of the
> movement.
>
> It's a big movement with lots of parts.  A better argument could be made
> for renaming Wikimania the Wikimedia Conference than using that term for a
> conference restricted to one small branch of the movement.  Many
> Wikimedians over the years, particularly those who are highly active in
> core movement activities but not chapter/affiliate activities, have felt
> disenfranchised and marginalized by having the name of the movement to
> which they make their contributions used for a conference at which they
> will never be welcome.
>
> And the other reason for changing the name to be more representative of
> what the conference is that it sets the tone for the agenda.  The focus of
> the conference is, at least in theory, chapters and affiliated groups: what
> they can learn from each other, sharing of tools and ideas, making
> connections within and external to the Wikimedia movement, etc.  It's not
> Wikimedia as a whole; it's far too exclusive (and exclusionary) for the
> movement as a whole to be the focus of the conference.
>
> From a different perspective, let's compare ourselves to other conferences
> that succeed because of their focus:  A conference for gastroenterologists
> isn't going to call itself the "medical conference", nor would a conference
> for neurosurgeons.  They're going to wave the flag that they're focusing on
> a specific aspect of medicine.  It's what we do with the diversity
> conference, and with the hackathons, too.  You're not losing anything by
> changing the name: you're recognizing the specialty focus of the
> conference.
>
> Risker/Anne
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>



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Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Chris Keating]

I was always a little surprised by the name Wikimedia Conference. After
all, that name would most logically belong to the big, open, week-long
event that draws over a thousand people together to talk about every aspect
of the movement.*

However, that event is already called Wikimania, which also doesn't make
sense to me. In James F's phrase , it's a bit of a lie, as it doesn't deal
with mania or other mental health issues, and it isn't exclusively attended
by men (except to a very broad approximation).

Therefore I propose we start by renaming Wikimania to the Wikimedia
Conference.

That leaves open what we call the slightly boring get-together where we
talk about how movement organisations can improve their governance and
programme measurement. As an interim step I suggest using the now-unused
term Wikimania until a suitable committee can determine the correct name
for the event, hopefully before the event occurs.

So I am just heading over to Meta to move all Wikimania pages to the name
Wikimedia Conference and vice versa. I trust this will clarify the matter.

*NB please ignore the rest of the post from this point forward.
On 12 Sep 2014 07:31, "Pine W"  wrote:

> One additional nice benefit from having the affiliates conference be a
> pre-Wikimania conference is that those who don't want to or are excluded
> from the affiliate portions of the event can attend other portions like the
> education pre-conference or the pre-conference hackathon.
>
> Can we please move this discussion to Meta?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Ed Saperia  wrote:
>
> > It would, however, significantly increase the work for the Wikimania
> > organisers. They didn't sign up to programme and organise an affiliate
> org
> > conference, so they shouldn't have to if they don't want to.
> >
> > Guestlists cause all sorts of politics, but are a necessary evil when
> > dealing with limited resources. Choices must be made, and it's up to the
> > hosts to decide who gets to come. A mission statement for the conference
> > might help alleviate some of the bad feeling, but there will inevitably
> be
> > some as long as there are fewer places than people.
> >
> > Ed Saperia
> > Conference Coordinator Wikimania London
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 12 Sep 2014, at 01:44, Pine W  wrote:
> > >
> > > I like the idea of having this event be a pre-conference for Wikimania.
> > > That may reduce total travel costs and travel time for the people who
> > > usually attend both events. This may also simplify planning for people
> > and
> > > thorgs.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >> On Sep 11, 2014 5:25 PM, "Pete Forsyth" 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
> > >> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the
> > >> name.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with
> > this
> > >> conference -- surely there's a better resource for
> conference-planning.
> > >>
> > >> The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference,
> and
> > --
> > >> perhaps -- nothing more.
> > >>
> > >> Pete
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> 
> > > ___
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> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > 
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

Any time I have seen the proposal of a pre-conference in Wikimania, any
time I have seen nothing happening.

There are two hackathons per year, one as Wikimania pre-conference and a
second one as separate event.

In my opinion proposing a preconference will not solve the problem but will
add a second conference to the annual one.

And the result will be a cost increasing for any Wikimania because in my
opinion the Wikimedia conference for affiliated will become more similar to
the Hackathon.

Personally I have seen a lot of events before Wikimania as pre-conference,
the agenda is already full of workshops and activities, there is no sense
to add a new one or there is no sense to add a new conference because all
these activities will have poor number of attendees keeping low the budget
of Wikimania.

Regards


On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Pine W  wrote:

> One additional nice benefit from having the affiliates conference be a
> pre-Wikimania conference is that those who don't want to or are excluded
> from the affiliate portions of the event can attend other portions like the
> education pre-conference or the pre-conference hackathon.
>
> Can we please move this discussion to Meta?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Ed Saperia  wrote:
>
> > It would, however, significantly increase the work for the Wikimania
> > organisers. They didn't sign up to programme and organise an affiliate
> org
> > conference, so they shouldn't have to if they don't want to.
> >
> > Guestlists cause all sorts of politics, but are a necessary evil when
> > dealing with limited resources. Choices must be made, and it's up to the
> > hosts to decide who gets to come. A mission statement for the conference
> > might help alleviate some of the bad feeling, but there will inevitably
> be
> > some as long as there are fewer places than people.
> >
> > Ed Saperia
> > Conference Coordinator Wikimania London
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 12 Sep 2014, at 01:44, Pine W  wrote:
> > >
> > > I like the idea of having this event be a pre-conference for Wikimania.
> > > That may reduce total travel costs and travel time for the people who
> > > usually attend both events. This may also simplify planning for people
> > and
> > > thorgs.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >> On Sep 11, 2014 5:25 PM, "Pete Forsyth" 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
> > >> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the
> > >> name.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with
> > this
> > >> conference -- surely there's a better resource for
> conference-planning.
> > >>
> > >> The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference,
> and
> > --
> > >> perhaps -- nothing more.
> > >>
> > >> Pete
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> 
> > > ___
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> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
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> > 
> >
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Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Pine W]

One additional nice benefit from having the affiliates conference be a
pre-Wikimania conference is that those who don't want to or are excluded
from the affiliate portions of the event can attend other portions like the
education pre-conference or the pre-conference hackathon.

Can we please move this discussion to Meta?

Thanks,

Pine

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Ed Saperia  wrote:

> It would, however, significantly increase the work for the Wikimania
> organisers. They didn't sign up to programme and organise an affiliate org
> conference, so they shouldn't have to if they don't want to.
>
> Guestlists cause all sorts of politics, but are a necessary evil when
> dealing with limited resources. Choices must be made, and it's up to the
> hosts to decide who gets to come. A mission statement for the conference
> might help alleviate some of the bad feeling, but there will inevitably be
> some as long as there are fewer places than people.
>
> Ed Saperia
> Conference Coordinator Wikimania London
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 12 Sep 2014, at 01:44, Pine W  wrote:
> >
> > I like the idea of having this event be a pre-conference for Wikimania.
> > That may reduce total travel costs and travel time for the people who
> > usually attend both events. This may also simplify planning for people
> and
> > thorgs.
> >
> > Pine
> >> On Sep 11, 2014 5:25 PM, "Pete Forsyth"  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
> >> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the
> >> name.
> >>
> >>
> >> But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with
> this
> >> conference -- surely there's a better resource for conference-planning.
> >>
> >> The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference, and
> --
> >> perhaps -- nothing more.
> >>
> >> Pete
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ed Saperia]

It would, however, significantly increase the work for the Wikimania 
organisers. They didn't sign up to programme and organise an affiliate org 
conference, so they shouldn't have to if they don't want to.

Guestlists cause all sorts of politics, but are a necessary evil when dealing 
with limited resources. Choices must be made, and it's up to the hosts to 
decide who gets to come. A mission statement for the conference might help 
alleviate some of the bad feeling, but there will inevitably be some as long as 
there are fewer places than people.

Ed Saperia
Conference Coordinator Wikimania London

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Sep 2014, at 01:44, Pine W  wrote:
> 
> I like the idea of having this event be a pre-conference for Wikimania.
> That may reduce total travel costs and travel time for the people who
> usually attend both events. This may also simplify planning for people and
> thorgs.
> 
> Pine
>> On Sep 11, 2014 5:25 PM, "Pete Forsyth"  wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
>> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the
>> name.
>> 
>> 
>> But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with this
>> conference -- surely there's a better resource for conference-planning.
>> 
>> The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference, and --
>> perhaps -- nothing more.
>> 
>> Pete
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Pine W]

May I suggest that this discussion move to [1] where, among other things,
people may create RfCs about the name, scope, and timing of the event?

I'm looping in Alex Wang from Grantmaking to see if she has any comments
about where and how this discussion should take place, since I think PEG
provides funding for these conferences.

Thanks,

Pine

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Future_of_the_Wikimedia_Conference
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Lodewijk]

So basically you're arguing that if people want to have a more sensible
discussion about the who, what & where, they should use a closed mailing
list? Like it was done in the past? Fine with me.

Please continue the discussion about the color, but it would be more
effective to have started a separate thread about it than hijack this one
which had some serious time-sensitive and open questions.

And yes, discussing whether we should discuss the color of the bikeshed is
distracting too. I suggest we use 'the Oompa Loompa discussion meeting' and
be done with it.

Best,
Lodewijk

2014-09-12 2:25 GMT+02:00 Pete Forsyth :

> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the
> name.
>
>
> But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with this
> conference -- surely there's a better resource for conference-planning.
>
> The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference, and --
> perhaps -- nothing more.
>
> Pete
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Risker]

On 11 September 2014 22:07, Charles Gregory  wrote:

> ... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has gradually
> evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate
> organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc.  I don't think
> anyone is suggesting any revolutionary changes for the next one?  Just a
> change in name to suit the current audience.
>
> What's the problem with the name "Wikimedia" being used?  It is, after all,
> a conference involving Wikimedians.  It appears the main complaint is the
> over-generic title "Wikimedia Conference".
>
> Charles (User:Chuq)
>
>

You are correct, Chuq.  "Wikimedia" by itself is the entire movement. It's
not a subgroup of the movement, which is what the chapters and affiliated
organizations are as a group.  We don't call the hackathons "Wikimedia
Conference", nor do we call the diversity conferences "Wikimedia
Conference", yet arguably they are even more representative of Wikimedia
(the movement) than this particular conference is; while attendees are
largely self-selected, they are open to anyone who has the means and will
to attend. What's been known in the past as the "Wikimedia Conference" is
essentially a by-invitation conference that is not representative of the
movement.

It's a big movement with lots of parts.  A better argument could be made
for renaming Wikimania the Wikimedia Conference than using that term for a
conference restricted to one small branch of the movement.  Many
Wikimedians over the years, particularly those who are highly active in
core movement activities but not chapter/affiliate activities, have felt
disenfranchised and marginalized by having the name of the movement to
which they make their contributions used for a conference at which they
will never be welcome.

And the other reason for changing the name to be more representative of
what the conference is that it sets the tone for the agenda.  The focus of
the conference is, at least in theory, chapters and affiliated groups: what
they can learn from each other, sharing of tools and ideas, making
connections within and external to the Wikimedia movement, etc.  It's not
Wikimedia as a whole; it's far too exclusive (and exclusionary) for the
movement as a whole to be the focus of the conference.

From a different perspective, let's compare ourselves to other conferences
that succeed because of their focus:  A conference for gastroenterologists
isn't going to call itself the "medical conference", nor would a conference
for neurosurgeons.  They're going to wave the flag that they're focusing on
a specific aspect of medicine.  It's what we do with the diversity
conference, and with the hackathons, too.  You're not losing anything by
changing the name: you're recognizing the specialty focus of the conference.

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Nathan]

An editor has moved the pages back, for anyone interested. Amusingly
illogical rationale in the edit summary, but what can you do.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Charles Gregory]

... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has gradually
evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate
organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc.  I don't think
anyone is suggesting any revolutionary changes for the next one?  Just a
change in name to suit the current audience.

What's the problem with the name "Wikimedia" being used?  It is, after all,
a conference involving Wikimedians.  It appears the main complaint is the
over-generic title "Wikimedia Conference".

Charles (User:Chuq)

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Richard Symonds <
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the name.
> On 12 Sep 2014 00:57, "Risker"  wrote:
>
> > We do have a community centre.  It's called Meta.  It may not be a very
> > elegant one, and there are definitely parts that can be improved, but
> it's
> > our virtual community centre.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Pine W]

I like the idea of having this event be a pre-conference for Wikimania.
That may reduce total travel costs and travel time for the people who
usually attend both events. This may also simplify planning for people and
thorgs.

Pine
On Sep 11, 2014 5:25 PM, "Pete Forsyth"  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the
> name.
>
>
> But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with this
> conference -- surely there's a better resource for conference-planning.
>
> The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference, and --
> perhaps -- nothing more.
>
> Pete
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Pete Forsyth]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds <
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the name.


But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with this
conference -- surely there's a better resource for conference-planning.

The thing most of us have a stake in is the name of the conference, and --
perhaps -- nothing more.

Pete
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Richard Symonds]

What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the name.
On 12 Sep 2014 00:57, "Risker"  wrote:

> We do have a community centre.  It's called Meta.  It may not be a very
> elegant one, and there are definitely parts that can be improved, but it's
> our virtual community centre.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 11 September 2014 19:54, Richard Symonds <
> richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > But we don't even have a bikeshed or a community centre yet :-P
> > On 12 Sep 2014 00:52, "Risker"  wrote:
> >
> > > On 11 September 2014 19:19, Charles Gregory 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the
> conference,
> > > but
> > > > I
> > > > >> find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that
> assessment,
> > > but
> > > > >> clearly some others in this thread do.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > What Pete said.
> > > > >
> > > > > We could go into issues with the exclusionary nature itself, such
> as
> > > that
> > > > > it would exclude representatives of groups who ran into trouble
> > > becoming
> > > > > official - despite such a conference likely being one of the best
> > > venues
> > > > > for them to bring up and discuss with relevant others how to
> actually
> > > > > address or resolve that trouble that excluded them in the first
> > > place...
> > > > >
> > > > > ...but that sort of thing is much harder to resolve/address. The
> > name,
> > > at
> > > > > least, is simple, and should also make a lot of the other problems
> > less
> > > > > glaring in the process.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Assuming the issue of the name is the sticking point ...
> > > >
> > > > What about the Wikimedia Meta-Conference? Or Meta-Wikimedia
> Conference?
> > > Or
> > > > MetaWiki Conference?
> > > >
> > > > It's more about the organisations in the background than keep the
> > > movement
> > > > going.  It doesn't seem (from my second-hand knowledge of the event)
> > > that a
> > > > regular editor would get a lot out of it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > This is the same problem.  It's usurping the Wikimedia name, and this
> > > proposal also usurps the Meta (all communities communication forum)
> name.
> > > It is neither for Wikimedia (as a whole) nor for Meta.  It's for
> > designated
> > > members of affiliates/chapters.  It's okay for it to be what it is. But
> > > let's call it what it is.
> > >
> > > It's not about the colour of the bikeshed.  It's about calling a
> > bikeshed a
> > > community centre.
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Risker]

We do have a community centre.  It's called Meta.  It may not be a very
elegant one, and there are definitely parts that can be improved, but it's
our virtual community centre.

Risker/Anne

On 11 September 2014 19:54, Richard Symonds <
richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> But we don't even have a bikeshed or a community centre yet :-P
> On 12 Sep 2014 00:52, "Risker"  wrote:
>
> > On 11 September 2014 19:19, Charles Gregory  wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference,
> > but
> > > I
> > > >> find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment,
> > but
> > > >> clearly some others in this thread do.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > What Pete said.
> > > >
> > > > We could go into issues with the exclusionary nature itself, such as
> > that
> > > > it would exclude representatives of groups who ran into trouble
> > becoming
> > > > official - despite such a conference likely being one of the best
> > venues
> > > > for them to bring up and discuss with relevant others how to actually
> > > > address or resolve that trouble that excluded them in the first
> > place...
> > > >
> > > > ...but that sort of thing is much harder to resolve/address. The
> name,
> > at
> > > > least, is simple, and should also make a lot of the other problems
> less
> > > > glaring in the process.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Assuming the issue of the name is the sticking point ...
> > >
> > > What about the Wikimedia Meta-Conference? Or Meta-Wikimedia Conference?
> > Or
> > > MetaWiki Conference?
> > >
> > > It's more about the organisations in the background than keep the
> > movement
> > > going.  It doesn't seem (from my second-hand knowledge of the event)
> > that a
> > > regular editor would get a lot out of it?
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > This is the same problem.  It's usurping the Wikimedia name, and this
> > proposal also usurps the Meta (all communities communication forum) name.
> > It is neither for Wikimedia (as a whole) nor for Meta.  It's for
> designated
> > members of affiliates/chapters.  It's okay for it to be what it is. But
> > let's call it what it is.
> >
> > It's not about the colour of the bikeshed.  It's about calling a
> bikeshed a
> > community centre.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Richard Symonds]

But we don't even have a bikeshed or a community centre yet :-P
On 12 Sep 2014 00:52, "Risker"  wrote:

> On 11 September 2014 19:19, Charles Gregory  wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos  wrote:
> >
> > > On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference,
> but
> > I
> > >> find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment,
> but
> > >> clearly some others in this thread do.
> > >>
> > >
> > > What Pete said.
> > >
> > > We could go into issues with the exclusionary nature itself, such as
> that
> > > it would exclude representatives of groups who ran into trouble
> becoming
> > > official - despite such a conference likely being one of the best
> venues
> > > for them to bring up and discuss with relevant others how to actually
> > > address or resolve that trouble that excluded them in the first
> place...
> > >
> > > ...but that sort of thing is much harder to resolve/address. The name,
> at
> > > least, is simple, and should also make a lot of the other problems less
> > > glaring in the process.
> > >
> > >
> > Assuming the issue of the name is the sticking point ...
> >
> > What about the Wikimedia Meta-Conference? Or Meta-Wikimedia Conference?
> Or
> > MetaWiki Conference?
> >
> > It's more about the organisations in the background than keep the
> movement
> > going.  It doesn't seem (from my second-hand knowledge of the event)
> that a
> > regular editor would get a lot out of it?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> This is the same problem.  It's usurping the Wikimedia name, and this
> proposal also usurps the Meta (all communities communication forum) name.
> It is neither for Wikimedia (as a whole) nor for Meta.  It's for designated
> members of affiliates/chapters.  It's okay for it to be what it is. But
> let's call it what it is.
>
> It's not about the colour of the bikeshed.  It's about calling a bikeshed a
> community centre.
>
> Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Risker]

On 11 September 2014 19:19, Charles Gregory  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos  wrote:
>
> > On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference, but
> I
> >> find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, but
> >> clearly some others in this thread do.
> >>
> >
> > What Pete said.
> >
> > We could go into issues with the exclusionary nature itself, such as that
> > it would exclude representatives of groups who ran into trouble becoming
> > official - despite such a conference likely being one of the best venues
> > for them to bring up and discuss with relevant others how to actually
> > address or resolve that trouble that excluded them in the first place...
> >
> > ...but that sort of thing is much harder to resolve/address. The name, at
> > least, is simple, and should also make a lot of the other problems less
> > glaring in the process.
> >
> >
> Assuming the issue of the name is the sticking point ...
>
> What about the Wikimedia Meta-Conference? Or Meta-Wikimedia Conference?  Or
> MetaWiki Conference?
>
> It's more about the organisations in the background than keep the movement
> going.  It doesn't seem (from my second-hand knowledge of the event) that a
> regular editor would get a lot out of it?
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
This is the same problem.  It's usurping the Wikimedia name, and this
proposal also usurps the Meta (all communities communication forum) name.
It is neither for Wikimedia (as a whole) nor for Meta.  It's for designated
members of affiliates/chapters.  It's okay for it to be what it is. But
let's call it what it is.

It's not about the colour of the bikeshed.  It's about calling a bikeshed a
community centre.

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Richard Symonds]

I personally prefer silver unpainted bikesheds. That way, they don't need
constant repainting.

Perhaps it would be best to decide the program. Or indeed something else
about it. Targets. Audience. Anything. Our conference baby will indeed need
a name, and a name is important, but let's have a pregnancy first. This
thread could do with refocusing :-)
On 11 Sep 2014 19:28, "Lodewijk"  wrote:

> /me mumbles something about a bikeshed that has a beautiful shade of blue.
>
> 2014-09-11 20:06 GMT+02:00 James Forrester :
>
> > On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
> >
> > > On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>  Dear all,
> > >>>
> > >>> Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to
> > discuss
> > >>> the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.
> > >>>
> > >>>  Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the
> > request
> > >> from the Wikimania Committee for people to please stop calling it "the
> > >> Wikimedia Conference" when it isn't about Wikimedia, just some
> Wikimedia
> > >> organisations, and isn't an open conference, against the ethos of
> > >> Wikimedia.
> > >>
> > >> "Wikimedia Associations Meeting 2015" is much less misleading, and
> > closer
> > >> to reality.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Against the funds of WMF.
> > >
> > > A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly
> > Wikimania,
> > > and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed, which is why we keep asking for the name to stop being a lie.
> >
> > J.
> > --
> > James D. Forrester
> > jdforres...@gmail.com
> > [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal
> > capacity)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos  wrote:

> On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>
>>
>> Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference, but I
>> find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, but
>> clearly some others in this thread do.
>>
>
> What Pete said.
>
> We could go into issues with the exclusionary nature itself, such as that
> it would exclude representatives of groups who ran into trouble becoming
> official - despite such a conference likely being one of the best venues
> for them to bring up and discuss with relevant others how to actually
> address or resolve that trouble that excluded them in the first place...
>
> ...but that sort of thing is much harder to resolve/address. The name, at
> least, is simple, and should also make a lot of the other problems less
> glaring in the process.
>
>
Assuming the issue of the name is the sticking point ...

What about the Wikimedia Meta-Conference? Or Meta-Wikimedia Conference?  Or
MetaWiki Conference?

It's more about the organisations in the background than keep the movement
going.  It doesn't seem (from my second-hand knowledge of the event) that a
regular editor would get a lot out of it?


Regards,

Charles (User:Chuq)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Isarra Yos]

On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote:

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Alice Wiegand  wrote:


Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a
discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if
this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations
within the Wikimedia movement, should be open for non-organized Wikimedians
as well. Which would probably be a different conference.


I think this discussion is both. But the immediate, acute, and solvable
problem (the inaccurate name of the conference) should not be ignored, just
because there *might* be a larger, hazier problem that will not be solved
today or tomorrow. Some progress is better than no progress.

Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference, but I
find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, but
clearly some others in this thread do.

Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]



What Pete said.

We could go into issues with the exclusionary nature itself, such as 
that it would exclude representatives of groups who ran into trouble 
becoming official - despite such a conference likely being one of the 
best venues for them to bring up and discuss with relevant others how to 
actually address or resolve that trouble that excluded them in the first 
place...


...but that sort of thing is much harder to resolve/address. The name, 
at least, is simple, and should also make a lot of the other problems 
less glaring in the process.


-I

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Pete Forsyth]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Alice Wiegand  wrote:

> Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a
> discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if
> this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations
> within the Wikimedia movement, should be open for non-organized Wikimedians
> as well. Which would probably be a different conference.


I think this discussion is both. But the immediate, acute, and solvable
problem (the inaccurate name of the conference) should not be ignored, just
because there *might* be a larger, hazier problem that will not be solved
today or tomorrow. Some progress is better than no progress.

Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference, but I
find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, but
clearly some others in this thread do.

Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Leigh Thelmadatter]

If it is to be limited to certain people, why not just have a pre conference 
with Wikimania? 

> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:36:36 +0200
> From: zvand...@gmail.com
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015
> 
> There is  no reason to change the name, and no reason to invent a second
> Wikimania. Also because of finances, the Spring meeting should be really
> limited to people who make the movement work better.
> I repeat that, in my opinion, some newer or smaller organisations don't fit
> really in, or should not be represented with as many people as an older or
> larger organisation. For newcomers I could imagine regional meetings with a
> special focus to their needs.
> It is certainly possible to improve the meeting by some better planning.
> For a jolly "Let's come all together and have a nice chat about anything"
> it is just too expensive...
> Kind regards
> Ziko
> 
> 
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 11. September 2014 schrieb Alice Wiegand :
> 
> > Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a
> > discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if
> > this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations
> > within the Wikimedia movement, should be open for non-organized Wikimedians
> > as well. Which would probably be a different conference.
> >
> > Alice.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Nathan >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos  > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change
> > > it.
> > > > As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem
> > > > people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of
> > > exclusion
> > > > people see.
> > > >
> > > > We can make a conference that has a participants list that involves
> > > people
> > > > that *should *or at least the people that really *want* to be there, we
> > > can
> > > > also rename the conference for the people that *are *currently there
> > and
> > > > forget about those that want and should be there. I'd rather focus on
> > the
> > > > former.
> > > >
> > > > Regardless, I do feel an emotional connection to the name and I expect
> > > many
> > > > people that have participated or organised it might feel this and I
> > > > appreciate that those who have not been there can see it as a minor
> > thing
> > > > that can be changed without any cost. It might not be perfect, but it
> > > does
> > > > have history and I do contend that the people that first started using
> > it
> > > > are Wikimedia, and they should not feel guilty about having come up
> > with
> > > > the idea first. Indeed, at this time, resources have been invested into
> > > the
> > > > name and confusion is ebbing around the "Wikimedia Conference" name due
> > > to
> > > > the years of history behind it.
> > > >
> > > > But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are
> > > > symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name
> > > that
> > > > sends a totally different vibe than if the change is imposed on the
> > > > participants, even if the end result is the same new name.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Bence
> > >
> > >
> > > If the as-yet undetermined organizers choose to name it Wikimedia
> > > Conference, then I suppose no one will act to force them to stop. But we
> > > are Wikimedia as much as the organizers and participants are, as much as
> > > hundreds of thousands of volunteers are. In a "Wikimedia Conference" you
> > > might expect it to be open to those Wikimedians. With a  narrower theme
> > of
> > > governance, I doubt the prediction of it morphing into a second Wikimania
> > > would come true.
> > >
> > > And while I accept your assertion that the name has history and meaning
> > to
> > > those who have participated there, I remain skeptical at the power the
> > name
> > > holds for you and others. It is, as you'll agree, a fairly generic name.
> > > And less than a handful of events over as many years does not a venerable
> > > tradition make. So I would hope that the o

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ziko van Dijk]

There is  no reason to change the name, and no reason to invent a second
Wikimania. Also because of finances, the Spring meeting should be really
limited to people who make the movement work better.
I repeat that, in my opinion, some newer or smaller organisations don't fit
really in, or should not be represented with as many people as an older or
larger organisation. For newcomers I could imagine regional meetings with a
special focus to their needs.
It is certainly possible to improve the meeting by some better planning.
For a jolly "Let's come all together and have a nice chat about anything"
it is just too expensive...
Kind regards
Ziko



Am Donnerstag, 11. September 2014 schrieb Alice Wiegand :

> Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a
> discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if
> this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations
> within the Wikimedia movement, should be open for non-organized Wikimedians
> as well. Which would probably be a different conference.
>
> Alice.
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Nathan >
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos  > wrote:
> >
> > > The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change
> > it.
> > > As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem
> > > people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of
> > exclusion
> > > people see.
> > >
> > > We can make a conference that has a participants list that involves
> > people
> > > that *should *or at least the people that really *want* to be there, we
> > can
> > > also rename the conference for the people that *are *currently there
> and
> > > forget about those that want and should be there. I'd rather focus on
> the
> > > former.
> > >
> > > Regardless, I do feel an emotional connection to the name and I expect
> > many
> > > people that have participated or organised it might feel this and I
> > > appreciate that those who have not been there can see it as a minor
> thing
> > > that can be changed without any cost. It might not be perfect, but it
> > does
> > > have history and I do contend that the people that first started using
> it
> > > are Wikimedia, and they should not feel guilty about having come up
> with
> > > the idea first. Indeed, at this time, resources have been invested into
> > the
> > > name and confusion is ebbing around the "Wikimedia Conference" name due
> > to
> > > the years of history behind it.
> > >
> > > But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are
> > > symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name
> > that
> > > sends a totally different vibe than if the change is imposed on the
> > > participants, even if the end result is the same new name.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Bence
> >
> >
> > If the as-yet undetermined organizers choose to name it Wikimedia
> > Conference, then I suppose no one will act to force them to stop. But we
> > are Wikimedia as much as the organizers and participants are, as much as
> > hundreds of thousands of volunteers are. In a "Wikimedia Conference" you
> > might expect it to be open to those Wikimedians. With a  narrower theme
> of
> > governance, I doubt the prediction of it morphing into a second Wikimania
> > would come true.
> >
> > And while I accept your assertion that the name has history and meaning
> to
> > those who have participated there, I remain skeptical at the power the
> name
> > holds for you and others. It is, as you'll agree, a fairly generic name.
> > And less than a handful of events over as many years does not a venerable
> > tradition make. So I would hope that the organizers, whoever they turn
> out
> > to be, will make the simple gesture of adding a single word to the name
> of
> > the event. It is still Wikimedia; it's just aimed at affiliates, those
> who
> > organize and have attended the event up through now.
> >
> > Indeed, the conference of affiliates that you've attended in the past is
> > valuable and worthy. I'd suggest you allow others interested to attend if
> > resources permit, but I wouldn't ask you to fundamentally alter the
> nature
> > of the event. Merely make it clear whom you represent, so that others
> don't
> > feel you claim to represent them when you do not -- as Ilario seemed to
> > with his "principle of delegation" comment.
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Alice Wiegand]

Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a
discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if
this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations
within the Wikimedia movement, should be open for non-organized Wikimedians
as well. Which would probably be a different conference.

Alice.

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:
>
> > The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change
> it.
> > As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem
> > people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of
> exclusion
> > people see.
> >
> > We can make a conference that has a participants list that involves
> people
> > that *should *or at least the people that really *want* to be there, we
> can
> > also rename the conference for the people that *are *currently there and
> > forget about those that want and should be there. I'd rather focus on the
> > former.
> >
> > Regardless, I do feel an emotional connection to the name and I expect
> many
> > people that have participated or organised it might feel this and I
> > appreciate that those who have not been there can see it as a minor thing
> > that can be changed without any cost. It might not be perfect, but it
> does
> > have history and I do contend that the people that first started using it
> > are Wikimedia, and they should not feel guilty about having come up with
> > the idea first. Indeed, at this time, resources have been invested into
> the
> > name and confusion is ebbing around the "Wikimedia Conference" name due
> to
> > the years of history behind it.
> >
> > But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are
> > symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name
> that
> > sends a totally different vibe than if the change is imposed on the
> > participants, even if the end result is the same new name.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bence
>
>
> If the as-yet undetermined organizers choose to name it Wikimedia
> Conference, then I suppose no one will act to force them to stop. But we
> are Wikimedia as much as the organizers and participants are, as much as
> hundreds of thousands of volunteers are. In a "Wikimedia Conference" you
> might expect it to be open to those Wikimedians. With a  narrower theme of
> governance, I doubt the prediction of it morphing into a second Wikimania
> would come true.
>
> And while I accept your assertion that the name has history and meaning to
> those who have participated there, I remain skeptical at the power the name
> holds for you and others. It is, as you'll agree, a fairly generic name.
> And less than a handful of events over as many years does not a venerable
> tradition make. So I would hope that the organizers, whoever they turn out
> to be, will make the simple gesture of adding a single word to the name of
> the event. It is still Wikimedia; it's just aimed at affiliates, those who
> organize and have attended the event up through now.
>
> Indeed, the conference of affiliates that you've attended in the past is
> valuable and worthy. I'd suggest you allow others interested to attend if
> resources permit, but I wouldn't ask you to fundamentally alter the nature
> of the event. Merely make it clear whom you represent, so that others don't
> feel you claim to represent them when you do not -- as Ilario seemed to
> with his "principle of delegation" comment.
> ___
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> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Bence Damokos]

I can see that people who are (also/only/additionally) part of different
interpretations of the word Wikimedia might feel excluded by the use of the
name by a subset of people who also make up a valid constellation under the
name Wikimedia. I cannot tell if this feeling involves the small number of
posters on this list or is a  wider feeling. Similarly, I can only speak
for my own opinion.

Changing the name going forward could alleviate those feelings and I am not
opposed to such a decision by the participants.

Nevertheless, I still claim that the conference needs to continue to be
improved rather than renamed (as the latter will unlikely to solve wider
issues about the questions of who makes certain decisions and where
important discussions are had in the movement), and I tend to agree with
Ilario that the Wikimedia Conference X does not necessarily have to be
exclusively used for this conference.

Best regards,
Bence
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

On 11.09.2014 22:27, Nathan wrote:

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:



But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are
symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name that
sends a totally different vibe than if the change is imposed on the
participants, even if the end result is the same new name.

Best regards,
Bence


Indeed, the conference of affiliates that you've attended in the past is
valuable and worthy. I'd suggest you allow others interested to attend if
resources permit, but I wouldn't ask you to fundamentally alter the nature
of the event. Merely make it clear whom you represent, so that others don't
feel you claim to represent them when you do not -- as Ilario seemed to
with his "principle of delegation" comment.
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It's different.

The question to limit participants is more an organizational question 
than a need to close the access.


Personally I supported a lot the idea to have "regional" or "thematic" 
Wikimedia conferences.


The affiliated groups uses the name "Wikimedia Conference" but this name 
doesn't belong to them and they don't require that it must be unique.


Naturally if they decide for the name "Wikimedia Affililiatons 
Conference" they must have the right to ask that no one will use the 
same name in organizing a conference.


Regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Nathan]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:

> The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change it.
> As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem
> people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of exclusion
> people see.
>
> We can make a conference that has a participants list that involves people
> that *should *or at least the people that really *want* to be there, we can
> also rename the conference for the people that *are *currently there and
> forget about those that want and should be there. I'd rather focus on the
> former.
>
> Regardless, I do feel an emotional connection to the name and I expect many
> people that have participated or organised it might feel this and I
> appreciate that those who have not been there can see it as a minor thing
> that can be changed without any cost. It might not be perfect, but it does
> have history and I do contend that the people that first started using it
> are Wikimedia, and they should not feel guilty about having come up with
> the idea first. Indeed, at this time, resources have been invested into the
> name and confusion is ebbing around the "Wikimedia Conference" name due to
> the years of history behind it.
>
> But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are
> symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name that
> sends a totally different vibe than if the change is imposed on the
> participants, even if the end result is the same new name.
>
> Best regards,
> Bence


If the as-yet undetermined organizers choose to name it Wikimedia
Conference, then I suppose no one will act to force them to stop. But we
are Wikimedia as much as the organizers and participants are, as much as
hundreds of thousands of volunteers are. In a "Wikimedia Conference" you
might expect it to be open to those Wikimedians. With a  narrower theme of
governance, I doubt the prediction of it morphing into a second Wikimania
would come true.

And while I accept your assertion that the name has history and meaning to
those who have participated there, I remain skeptical at the power the name
holds for you and others. It is, as you'll agree, a fairly generic name.
And less than a handful of events over as many years does not a venerable
tradition make. So I would hope that the organizers, whoever they turn out
to be, will make the simple gesture of adding a single word to the name of
the event. It is still Wikimedia; it's just aimed at affiliates, those who
organize and have attended the event up through now.

Indeed, the conference of affiliates that you've attended in the past is
valuable and worthy. I'd suggest you allow others interested to attend if
resources permit, but I wouldn't ask you to fundamentally alter the nature
of the event. Merely make it clear whom you represent, so that others don't
feel you claim to represent them when you do not -- as Ilario seemed to
with his "principle of delegation" comment.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

On 11.09.2014 21:26, Risker wrote:


Please do not call it "the" Wikimedia conference.  It may be many things,
but it's not that.  "Wikimedia Affiliates Conference" will do fine.

Risker/Anne



I think that the misunderstanding is here.

This is not "the" Wikimedia Conference, this is one of several 
wikimedia/wikipedia conference.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiCon (it's a limited example).

I think that the idea that this is "the" wikimedia conference is in the 
head of someone.


Calling it wikicon, or wikiconference, or wikimedia conference change a 
little bit.


No one can have another Wikimania, but all people can have their own 
Wikimedia Conference/Wikicon/Wikiconference.


So the change of the name in "Wikimedia Affiliations conference" is an 
imposition of few people to use a name that belongs to no one, neither 
to affiliated members nor to individual wiki(p/m)edians.



Regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Bence Damokos]

The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change it.
As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem
people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of exclusion
people see.

We can make a conference that has a participants list that involves people
that *should *or at least the people that really *want* to be there, we can
also rename the conference for the people that *are *currently there and
forget about those that want and should be there. I'd rather focus on the
former.

Regardless, I do feel an emotional connection to the name and I expect many
people that have participated or organised it might feel this and I
appreciate that those who have not been there can see it as a minor thing
that can be changed without any cost. It might not be perfect, but it does
have history and I do contend that the people that first started using it
are Wikimedia, and they should not feel guilty about having come up with
the idea first. Indeed, at this time, resources have been invested into the
name and confusion is ebbing around the "Wikimedia Conference" name due to
the years of history behind it.

But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are
symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name that
sends a totally different vibe than if the change is imposed on the
participants, even if the end result is the same new name.

Best regards,
Bence

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> Hi Bence,
>
> We strive not to be bound by bureaucracy, don't we? If we discover that a
> simple name (as generic as "Wikimedia Conference") is slightly misleading,
> or not completely accurate, then why should we avoid changing it?
> Particularly as it appears that no process has begun to plan the next
> coming conference?
>
> If a group of people in New England USA (my geographic area) got together,
> perhaps with some of the chapters in the Eastern US, and created an
> event... We would not call it "Wikimedia Conference", even though we would
> have as much right to that name as the affiliate conference. That would be
> confusing, and misleading.
>
> So at a moment when there is no cost to the change, no chance of further
> confusion, and before resources are invested in this name for the next
> cycle... This is the perfect opportunity to address what is, you must
> admit, a minor concern easily solved.
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:
>
> > I believe names and how we treat them both hold great power and tell a
> lot
> > about the name-giver and power relationships.
> >
> > "Wikimedia" means different things to different people (possibly all
> > valid), it is both the name for the concept of the different sister
> > projects and their combined ethos forming a network or movement [which
> > involves some people interested in Meta issues who have not been invited
> to
> > the Wikimedia Conference, and many many people who have been], as well as
> > the name for anything that comes under the substituent parts of the
> network
> > (all the individual editors, photographers, etc.) and sets of these
> groups
> > (and individuals can be members of Wikimedia under a multitude of ways
> > often belonging to both groups at the same time). The Wikimedia
> Conference,
> > nor Wikimania will ever be truly open to all people of the second group
> > (also rightfully called Wikimedia), but it can aim to be representative
> of
> > the first. Hundreds of volunteers have put their time into building up
> the
> > Wikimedia Conference idea and brand, and taking it away just because they
> > have yet to achieve 100% success on one difficult to define metric seems
> > ill-advised.
> >
> > I don't think taking away the name of the conference by trying to box it
> > into overspecification (by way of adding extra words) would be the right
> > direction: it sends the wrong message to the  Wikimedians (who happened
> to
> > be chapter members at one time or another) who have built up the event
> for
> > the past 5-6 years as if they are not eligible to conduct activities
> under
> > the Wikimedia name unless they invite absolutely everyone, and it opens
> the
> > door for lazyness (if you call it the Affiliates Conference, don't
> complain
> > if non-affiliates are not invited, whereas if you call it the Wikimedia
> > Conference that will keep the organisers and participants accountable to
> > making it more representative).
> >
> >
> > Just as background, the conference has over the years and almost from the
> > start went beyond chapters: first the WMF Board and staff, Chapters
> > Committee members (including people who were not a member of any actual
> > chapter at the time), then the movement roles discussion group was
> invited,
> > followed by user groups, AffCom (still having members not part of any
> > affiliate at the time) and thorgs, as well as the FDC (again, with
> members
> > who are not members in any a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Nathan]

Hi Bence,

We strive not to be bound by bureaucracy, don't we? If we discover that a
simple name (as generic as "Wikimedia Conference") is slightly misleading,
or not completely accurate, then why should we avoid changing it?
Particularly as it appears that no process has begun to plan the next
coming conference?

If a group of people in New England USA (my geographic area) got together,
perhaps with some of the chapters in the Eastern US, and created an
event... We would not call it "Wikimedia Conference", even though we would
have as much right to that name as the affiliate conference. That would be
confusing, and misleading.

So at a moment when there is no cost to the change, no chance of further
confusion, and before resources are invested in this name for the next
cycle... This is the perfect opportunity to address what is, you must
admit, a minor concern easily solved.

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:

> I believe names and how we treat them both hold great power and tell a lot
> about the name-giver and power relationships.
>
> "Wikimedia" means different things to different people (possibly all
> valid), it is both the name for the concept of the different sister
> projects and their combined ethos forming a network or movement [which
> involves some people interested in Meta issues who have not been invited to
> the Wikimedia Conference, and many many people who have been], as well as
> the name for anything that comes under the substituent parts of the network
> (all the individual editors, photographers, etc.) and sets of these groups
> (and individuals can be members of Wikimedia under a multitude of ways
> often belonging to both groups at the same time). The Wikimedia Conference,
> nor Wikimania will ever be truly open to all people of the second group
> (also rightfully called Wikimedia), but it can aim to be representative of
> the first. Hundreds of volunteers have put their time into building up the
> Wikimedia Conference idea and brand, and taking it away just because they
> have yet to achieve 100% success on one difficult to define metric seems
> ill-advised.
>
> I don't think taking away the name of the conference by trying to box it
> into overspecification (by way of adding extra words) would be the right
> direction: it sends the wrong message to the  Wikimedians (who happened to
> be chapter members at one time or another) who have built up the event for
> the past 5-6 years as if they are not eligible to conduct activities under
> the Wikimedia name unless they invite absolutely everyone, and it opens the
> door for lazyness (if you call it the Affiliates Conference, don't complain
> if non-affiliates are not invited, whereas if you call it the Wikimedia
> Conference that will keep the organisers and participants accountable to
> making it more representative).
>
>
> Just as background, the conference has over the years and almost from the
> start went beyond chapters: first the WMF Board and staff, Chapters
> Committee members (including people who were not a member of any actual
> chapter at the time), then the movement roles discussion group was invited,
> followed by user groups, AffCom (still having members not part of any
> affiliate at the time) and thorgs, as well as the FDC (again, with members
> who are not members in any affiliate) were invited with some side meetings
> that had wider participation. It is no longer tied to just the affiliate
> organisations but simply to the governance and "Wikimedians active offline
> [as well as online]" side of the movement (people falling under one of the
>  interpretations of "Wikimedia").
>
> Last year I made the proposal to some of the organisers to think about
> opening a certain number of places for volunteers dedicated to the future
> of the movement, strategic and governance issues to be able to freely
> attend, to better live up to the name and the valid concern that tying
> participation to organisational roles leaves some people out that should be
> included. I could see that happening for the 2015 conference if the
> organisers work out the details, but even in that case I don't see the
> conference as being attractive to 80 thousand editors and that is perfectly
> fine.
>
> In any case, renaming the conference without the consent of the pool of
> participants (which might be given, after all the Conference had a
> different name in the first years) seems like a move out of power that
> belittles the work of the people involved. (And I think this is valid
> statement, even considering the valid anguish of all the brilliant
> volunteers who could not attend in previous years - this change has to come
> from the organisers to be "real".)
>
> Best regards,
> Bence
>
> (Personal view, though I was lucky to organise the 2011 conference and
> participate in various roles in others; I don't at the moment hold any
> position serving as an entry ticket to the 2015 event, though I am
> considering paying my

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Bence Damokos]

I believe names and how we treat them both hold great power and tell a lot
about the name-giver and power relationships.

"Wikimedia" means different things to different people (possibly all
valid), it is both the name for the concept of the different sister
projects and their combined ethos forming a network or movement [which
involves some people interested in Meta issues who have not been invited to
the Wikimedia Conference, and many many people who have been], as well as
the name for anything that comes under the substituent parts of the network
(all the individual editors, photographers, etc.) and sets of these groups
(and individuals can be members of Wikimedia under a multitude of ways
often belonging to both groups at the same time). The Wikimedia Conference,
nor Wikimania will ever be truly open to all people of the second group
(also rightfully called Wikimedia), but it can aim to be representative of
the first. Hundreds of volunteers have put their time into building up the
Wikimedia Conference idea and brand, and taking it away just because they
have yet to achieve 100% success on one difficult to define metric seems
ill-advised.

I don't think taking away the name of the conference by trying to box it
into overspecification (by way of adding extra words) would be the right
direction: it sends the wrong message to the  Wikimedians (who happened to
be chapter members at one time or another) who have built up the event for
the past 5-6 years as if they are not eligible to conduct activities under
the Wikimedia name unless they invite absolutely everyone, and it opens the
door for lazyness (if you call it the Affiliates Conference, don't complain
if non-affiliates are not invited, whereas if you call it the Wikimedia
Conference that will keep the organisers and participants accountable to
making it more representative).


Just as background, the conference has over the years and almost from the
start went beyond chapters: first the WMF Board and staff, Chapters
Committee members (including people who were not a member of any actual
chapter at the time), then the movement roles discussion group was invited,
followed by user groups, AffCom (still having members not part of any
affiliate at the time) and thorgs, as well as the FDC (again, with members
who are not members in any affiliate) were invited with some side meetings
that had wider participation. It is no longer tied to just the affiliate
organisations but simply to the governance and "Wikimedians active offline
[as well as online]" side of the movement (people falling under one of the
 interpretations of "Wikimedia").

Last year I made the proposal to some of the organisers to think about
opening a certain number of places for volunteers dedicated to the future
of the movement, strategic and governance issues to be able to freely
attend, to better live up to the name and the valid concern that tying
participation to organisational roles leaves some people out that should be
included. I could see that happening for the 2015 conference if the
organisers work out the details, but even in that case I don't see the
conference as being attractive to 80 thousand editors and that is perfectly
fine.

In any case, renaming the conference without the consent of the pool of
participants (which might be given, after all the Conference had a
different name in the first years) seems like a move out of power that
belittles the work of the people involved. (And I think this is valid
statement, even considering the valid anguish of all the brilliant
volunteers who could not attend in previous years - this change has to come
from the organisers to be "real".)

Best regards,
Bence

(Personal view, though I was lucky to organise the 2011 conference and
participate in various roles in others; I don't at the moment hold any
position serving as an entry ticket to the 2015 event, though I am
considering paying my way if the conference opens up places)



On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Isarra Yos  wrote:

> On 11/09/14 18:42, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
>
>> On 11.09.2014 20:06, James Forrester wrote:
>>
>>> On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Against the funds of WMF.

 A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly
 Wikimania,
 and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.

  Indeed, which is why we keep asking for the name to stop being a lie.
>>>
>>> J.
>>>
>>
>> Considering it a lie is an extreme evaluation in my opinion.
>>
>> In Wikimedia conference there are chapters (~40) and user groups (~15).
>> At the start it was called "chapters conference", now it's called Wikimedia
>> Conference because it's more open.
>>
>> In my opinion it's not a problem to call it again "chapters conference".
>>
>> To participate it's sufficient to be "representative of a group", not
>> only of himself.
>>
>> Considering the principle of "delegation", it may be considered a
>> Wikimedia Confere

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Nathan]

Since before planning gets underway is the perfect time to clarify the
conference title, and Anh Chung was kind enough to create the pages, I've
taken the liberty of moving them to [[Wikimedia Affiliates Conference
2015]].
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Leigh Thelmadatter]

AHEM  it is *NOT* easy to create a user group, especially if a chapter is 
against it.  Look at how long the Wiki Borregos application has been left in 
limbo by Aff Comm and Ive saved some real doozies of emails from several 
members of said committee.

Just a small taste... one of the first objections they had to our application 
was that the term "Borregos" ("ram" in Spanish) was a trademark of the Tec de 
Monterrey... and we are a group of students and faculty from the same 
institution!






> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:26:24 -0400
> From: risker...@gmail.com
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015
> 
> I'm with James and Isarra here.  Only a small minority of Wikimedians are
> part of chapters and affiliated groups; being a member of an organized
> group has nothing to do with being a Wikimedian, or even directly with
> Wikimedia itself.  This is an exclusionary conference - not only do you
> have to be a member of one of these groups (or otherwise receive an
> invitation based on role within the WMF structure or as a speaker) to
> attend, but the conference isn't even open to all members of those groups.
> 
> Please do not call it "the" Wikimedia conference.  It may be many things,
> but it's not that.  "Wikimedia Affiliates Conference" will do fine.
> 
> Risker/Anne
> 
> On 11 September 2014 15:12, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
> 
> > On 11.09.2014 20:48, Isarra Yos wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I'm part of the Wikimedia movement, but there are no chapters nearby, nor
> >> are there any user groups that I know of relevant to my interests as yet.
> >> Thus there is nobody to represent me but myself.
> >>
> >> If this is Wikimedia, why can't I go to a Wikimedia conference?
> >>
> >> -I
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >
> > You may create your own user group and participate.
> >
> > I suppose that all people participating in Wikimedia conference don't
> > represent their own (personal) interests (or they should not).
> >
> > If you participate in a project it's not so hard to create an user group.
> > All projects are based on collaboration of individuals, so it should be not
> > hard to find other members sharing the same interests.
> >
> > Wikisource created its own, for instance, and they don't need a single
> > chapter to represent their position.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > --
> > Ilario Valdelli
> > Wikimedia CH
> > Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> > Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> > Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> > Tel: +41764821371
> > http://www.wikimedia.ch
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Risker]

I'm with James and Isarra here.  Only a small minority of Wikimedians are
part of chapters and affiliated groups; being a member of an organized
group has nothing to do with being a Wikimedian, or even directly with
Wikimedia itself.  This is an exclusionary conference - not only do you
have to be a member of one of these groups (or otherwise receive an
invitation based on role within the WMF structure or as a speaker) to
attend, but the conference isn't even open to all members of those groups.

Please do not call it "the" Wikimedia conference.  It may be many things,
but it's not that.  "Wikimedia Affiliates Conference" will do fine.

Risker/Anne

On 11 September 2014 15:12, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> On 11.09.2014 20:48, Isarra Yos wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm part of the Wikimedia movement, but there are no chapters nearby, nor
>> are there any user groups that I know of relevant to my interests as yet.
>> Thus there is nobody to represent me but myself.
>>
>> If this is Wikimedia, why can't I go to a Wikimedia conference?
>>
>> -I
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>
> You may create your own user group and participate.
>
> I suppose that all people participating in Wikimedia conference don't
> represent their own (personal) interests (or they should not).
>
> If you participate in a project it's not so hard to create an user group.
> All projects are based on collaboration of individuals, so it should be not
> hard to find other members sharing the same interests.
>
> Wikisource created its own, for instance, and they don't need a single
> chapter to represent their position.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
>
>
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

On 11.09.2014 20:48, Isarra Yos wrote:


I'm part of the Wikimedia movement, but there are no chapters nearby, 
nor are there any user groups that I know of relevant to my interests 
as yet. Thus there is nobody to represent me but myself.


If this is Wikimedia, why can't I go to a Wikimedia conference?

-I

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You may create your own user group and participate.

I suppose that all people participating in Wikimedia conference don't 
represent their own (personal) interests (or they should not).


If you participate in a project it's not so hard to create an user 
group. All projects are based on collaboration of individuals, so it 
should be not hard to find other members sharing the same interests.


Wikisource created its own, for instance, and they don't need a single 
chapter to represent their position.


Regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Isarra Yos]

On 11/09/14 18:42, Ilario Valdelli wrote:

On 11.09.2014 20:06, James Forrester wrote:

On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:


Against the funds of WMF.

A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly 
Wikimania,

and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.


Indeed, which is why we keep asking for the name to stop being a lie.

J.


Considering it a lie is an extreme evaluation in my opinion.

In Wikimedia conference there are chapters (~40) and user groups 
(~15). At the start it was called "chapters conference", now it's 
called Wikimedia Conference because it's more open.


In my opinion it's not a problem to call it again "chapters conference".

To participate it's sufficient to be "representative of a group", not 
only of himself.


Considering the principle of "delegation", it may be considered a 
Wikimedia Conference.


Regards



I'm part of the Wikimedia movement, but there are no chapters nearby, 
nor are there any user groups that I know of relevant to my interests as 
yet. Thus there is nobody to represent me but myself.


If this is Wikimedia, why can't I go to a Wikimedia conference?

-I

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

On 11.09.2014 20:06, James Forrester wrote:

On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:


Against the funds of WMF.

A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly Wikimania,
and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.


Indeed, which is why we keep asking for the name to stop being a lie.

J.


Considering it a lie is an extreme evaluation in my opinion.

In Wikimedia conference there are chapters (~40) and user groups (~15). 
At the start it was called "chapters conference", now it's called 
Wikimedia Conference because it's more open.


In my opinion it's not a problem to call it again "chapters conference".

To participate it's sufficient to be "representative of a group", not 
only of himself.


Considering the principle of "delegation", it may be considered a 
Wikimedia Conference.


Regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Lodewijk]

/me mumbles something about a bikeshed that has a beautiful shade of blue.

2014-09-11 20:06 GMT+02:00 James Forrester :

> On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>
> > On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote:
> >
> >> On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung  wrote:
> >>
> >>  Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to
> discuss
> >>> the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.
> >>>
> >>>  Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the
> request
> >> from the Wikimania Committee for people to please stop calling it "the
> >> Wikimedia Conference" when it isn't about Wikimedia, just some Wikimedia
> >> organisations, and isn't an open conference, against the ethos of
> >> Wikimedia.
> >>
> >> "Wikimedia Associations Meeting 2015" is much less misleading, and
> closer
> >> to reality.
> >>
> >
> > Against the funds of WMF.
> >
> > A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly
> Wikimania,
> > and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.
> >
>
> Indeed, which is why we keep asking for the name to stop being a lie.
>
> J.
> --
> James D. Forrester
> jdforres...@gmail.com
> [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal
> capacity)
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[James Forrester]

On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote:
>
>> On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung  wrote:
>>
>>  Dear all,
>>>
>>> Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss
>>> the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.
>>>
>>>  Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the request
>> from the Wikimania Committee for people to please stop calling it "the
>> Wikimedia Conference" when it isn't about Wikimedia, just some Wikimedia
>> organisations, and isn't an open conference, against the ethos of
>> Wikimedia.
>>
>> "Wikimedia Associations Meeting 2015" is much less misleading, and closer
>> to reality.
>>
>
> Against the funds of WMF.
>
> A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly Wikimania,
> and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.
>

Indeed, which is why we keep asking for the name to stop being a lie.

J.
-- 
James D. Forrester
jdforres...@gmail.com
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal
capacity)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Nathan]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
>
>
> Against the funds of WMF.
>
> A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly Wikimania,
> and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.
>
> In addition there are not represented "some Wikimedia organisations" but
> all Wikimedia organisations, including the affiliated groups.
>
> Until a discussion is not opened and it does not reach a clear majority,
> it is called Wikimedia Conference.
>
> Regards


Wikimedia Affiliate Conference is obviously much more accurate and
descriptive.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Ilario Valdelli]

On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote:

On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung  wrote:


Dear all,

Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss
the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.


Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the request
from the Wikimania Committee for people to please stop calling it "the
Wikimedia Conference" when it isn't about Wikimedia, just some Wikimedia
organisations, and isn't an open conference, against the ethos of Wikimedia.

"Wikimedia Associations Meeting 2015" is much less misleading, and closer
to reality.

J.


Against the funds of WMF.

A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly 
Wikimania, and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to 
Wikimania.


In addition there are not represented "some Wikimedia organisations" but 
all Wikimedia organisations, including the affiliated groups.


Until a discussion is not opened and it does not reach a clear majority, 
it is called Wikimedia Conference.


Regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Gregory Varnum]

I think "Wikimedia Affiliates Meeting" or "Wikimedia Movement Affiliates 
Meeting" would better match the wording used elsewhere.

-greg

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Sent from my iPhone - a more detailed response may be sent later.

> On Sep 11, 2014, at 12:42 PM, James Forrester  wrote:
> 
>> On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss
>> the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.
>> 
> 
> Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the request
> from the Wikimania Committee for people to please stop calling it "the
> Wikimedia Conference" when it isn't about Wikimedia, just some Wikimedia
> organisations, and isn't an open conference, against the ethos of Wikimedia.
> 
> "Wikimedia Associations Meeting 2015" is much less misleading, and closer
> to reality.
> 
> J.
> -- 
> James D. Forrester
> Chair, Wikimania Committee
> 
> jdforres...@gmail.com
> [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal
> capacity)
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> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[James Forrester]

On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss
> the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.
>

Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the request
from the Wikimania Committee for people to please stop calling it "the
Wikimedia Conference" when it isn't about Wikimedia, just some Wikimedia
organisations, and isn't an open conference, against the ethos of Wikimedia.

"Wikimedia Associations Meeting 2015" is much less misleading, and closer
to reality.

J.
-- 
James D. Forrester
Chair, Wikimania Committee

jdforres...@gmail.com
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]] (speaking purely in a personal
capacity)
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

[Anh Chung]

Dear all,

Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss
the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference.

A year ago, for the very first time, the movement set up a selection
process to choose the host of the conference, 4 chapters applied and WMDE
was chosen to host the 2014 edition. Setting up this process has improved
the planning of the Wikimedia Conference and it would be ideal to follow
the same organization for next year’s event.

Wikimedia CH did not participate last year, but expressed its willingness
to host for the 2015 edition.

As we are already in September and that the next Wikimedia conference
should be held in May 2015, we believe that the selection process to choose
the next hosting team should begin as soon as possible to obtain the best
deals location wise and also to have the time to prepare the program.

As a representative of a candidate who wishes to apply for the hosting of
the 2015 edition, we would like to open this discussion and put upfront the
suggestion to form:

 *a location committee, in charge of setting up the bidding process and to
evaluate them

**a program committee, in charge of setting up the conference program

By keeping the smooth process established last year, we can address two
important issues, having a cost efficient conference if planned well in
advance, and having a content efficient conference with well defined SMART
objectives ;-)

I took the liberty to set-up a Wikimedia Conference 2015 page, as well as a
bidding page in order to kick off those discussions.

In the hopes of setting up a constructive and collaborative process, I wish
you all a very good day.
_


Anh CHUNG, Chief Administrative Officer
"Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
www.wikimedia.ch
Office +41 21 340 66 20
Mobile +41 78 888 76 38
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