Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (mobility and roaming)

[Haudy Kazemi]

Hello,

There was some open-source work done that allowed generic 802.11 clients to
roam around on a wireless network without breaking
stateful/session-orientated connections.  It was called Transparent
Mobility, and there is code available on the SF site below.  I believe it
was actually put into practice at SOWN, but there doesn't appear to have
been any additional recent activity on the project.  Nonetheless it was an
interesting way to solve the problem of not having built-in roaming
capabilities in 802.11.  The description:

---
About Transparent Mobile IP
   
This project aims to provide IP mobility across multiple networks, ensuring
that all active TCP sessions will be maintained upon migration. No client
side software or alteration to IP stack is required. The network itself
changes to provide connectivity. 
---

http://www.slyware.com/projects_tmip.shtml
http://www.sown.org.uk/index.php/TransparentMobility
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tmip


At 03:32 PM 12/28/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>Matt,
>
>Great point, that many forget.
>
>For the record, there were several unlicensed products that ahve been 
>marketed to mobility, such as Alvarion 900Mhz. Does Alvarion 900 mobile 
>product llow subscribers to maintain state, when switching APs?  My 
>understanding is that a vehichle in motion (at not to high a speed) could 
>successfully use the service, however, it would infact be a dirty 
>copnnection break when switching APs, meaning lossing connection with one, 
>and then searching for the second after connection lsot to first.  Is that 
>correct, Alvarion people?
>
>Tom DeReggi
>RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:52 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
>
>
>> FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot 
>> roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP the 
>> client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves 
>> handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a cell 
>> phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. Wi-Fi 
>> clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The difference is 
>> related to maintaining state on any network connections, which is 
>> especially important for VoIP and VPN.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>>No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this 
>>>point
>>>
>>>
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf
Of John Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with
fiber


John


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


>Ah but what about the new customer  who is comparing FIOS to what I 
>offer?
>
FIOS

>will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv )
>
>Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around
>
boston,

>ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc
>
>Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>
Behalf

>>Of Bob Moldashel
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
>>
>>It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts!
>>
>>-B-
>>
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting 
>>>close
>>>
and

>>>reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - 
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>15Mbps
>>
>>
>>
>>>for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to
>>>
beat,

>>>currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the 
>>>customer
>>>
>>>Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps  $34.95 - $39.95
>>>Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
>>>Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Bob Moldashel
>>Lakeland Communications, Inc.
>>Broadband Deployment Group
>>1350 Lincoln Avenue
>>Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
>>800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
>>631-585-5558 Fax
>>516-551-1131 Cell
>>
>>--
>>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>--
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>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version

Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Jason]

List,

   As a Mechanical Engineer (non-PE), there are 2 obvious failure 
modes.  First, there is the folding of the mast at the top bolt/mount. 
This is affected by the length of unsupported mast above the pole, the 
ridigity of the mast material, and the size of the hole you drill into 
it to mount it against the pole (so use a mount and don't drill a hole 
through it).  This failure mode is not affected by the amount of 
overlap.  The other failure mode is that the bolts/mounts are 
broken/torn from the pole.  This IS affected by the amount of overlap.  
As long as your hardware is strong, the most likely failure will be the 
buckling one.  Once the strength of the mount setup exceeds the strength 
that it takes to fold the mast over, it will always fail by folding 
over.  So at this point increasing the amount of overlap does nothing.  
This is especially true for very long, slender masts, and even more true 
for light gauge aluminum tube.  Because there are so many variables, I 
propose that you do a quick test.  Take a piece of your mast material 
and mount it to a section of a power pole, cross tie, tree stump - 
whatever you think is a reasonable model of the final version.  Then try 
to bend the pole over with a come-along, drive your car/tractor over it, 
jump up and down on it - any reasonable contraption that mimics the 
bending effect of the wind.  Don't brace or otherwise touch the mount 
area of the setup to avoid skewing the test.  Also, do this in a 
direction that pulls or pushes the mast away from the pole to stress the 
mounts to the max.  Then you should clearly see what the weak point in 
your system is and have a qualitative idea of what it can handle.  If it 
folds the mast over, your hardware and overlap are probably fine.  
Disclaimer:  I can not be held responsible for your execution of this 
concept/test.  Maybe execution is not a good way to put it...


Jason Wallace

Scott Reed wrote:


Yep, found that mount.  Couple bucks less and Electro-Comm, too.
I am looking at Schedule 40 steel pipe, 21' from a local guy.  Almost 
$100.  Where do you find aluminum, and about how much for 20'?


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, 
because

Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Bob Moldashel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: WISPA General List 
Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:51:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

> Scott Reed wrote:
>
> > I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I would
> > have expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better.
> >
> > Scott Reed
> > Owner
> > NewWays
> > Wireless Networking
> > Network Design, Installation and Administration
> > www.nwwnet.net  
> >
>
> Ahhh...No.  2' is not enough.  My rule of thumb is 15-20%.
>
> I know the discussion is on pole mounts..Here is my suggestion.
>
> First you need a mount:  
> 
http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=15433&eventPage=1 
 


>
> Then you can get a length of thick wall aluminum pipe 2" x  ?   This
> comes in 20', 24' and 40' lengths here.
>
> Mount and smile.  Ready to go.   About $ 225 total... Real 
mounting...No

> game playing.  No "making it work".
>
> -B-
>
> --
> Bob Moldashel
> Lakeland Communications, Inc.
> Broadband Deployment Group
> 1350 Lincoln Avenue
> Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
> 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
> 631-585-5558 Fax
> 516-551-1131 Cell
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
*--- End of Original Message ---*


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Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[George]

Kurt
Your killing me.

This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list 
from a fellow wisp.


The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at 
all, it's an admission of failure.


You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand.

Shaking my head.

George

And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid,


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to 
hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out 
why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area.


 


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com

 


-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Rick Smith

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 

actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if 
it'd start a fire.  It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route 
based on Virtual AP SSID


 

Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a 
wholesale level...


 




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Scott Reed

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They 
call the competitor who says, "We don't do that."  Then what, do you get 
called by the competitor?
I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help 
you?


I like the wholesale idea though.  I may have to pursue that in the future.

Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because
Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do 

DSL) :)


 I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a 

local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" -

 the virtual SSID thing was a natural win...

 Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit 

because of the virtual ssid's ...

 R

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

On Behalf Of Pete Davis

 Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a 

secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it.


 Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful 

during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so

 you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid.
 I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the 

same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward
 residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for 

business customers.
 I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create 

a bunch of APs on one radio.


 I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an 

AP, and set up 40 "virtual AP's" on the network with each
 client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to 

kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE?


 Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it 

switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time

 Division Multiplexing.

 Pete Davis
 NoDial.net
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[WISPA] Test message - please ignore

[David E. Smith]

Just did a few updates and tweaks (and backups :D ) to the WISPA server,
sending a quick test message to make sure it works. Pay no attention to
the man behind the curtain.

David Smith
MVN.net


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Re: [WISPA] Physical Seperation

[Mac Dearman]

The 5.xGHz range is not like 802.11b where it has "over lapping" 
channels. I have 5.x dishes within 2' of each other as well as 5.x flat 
panels within a foot of each other with no interference at all. I would 
suggest different channels on each radio though!  :-)


GL

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600





Paul Hendry wrote:


Anyone have a good rule of thumb for physical separation of dishes? Looking
at installing 3 short masts on a water tower with 2 dishes on each mast. 1
will be horizontal and 1 vertical and both will be 5GHz. Is there a
recommendation on how far the 2 antennas should physically be apart to
minimize interference?

Cheers,

P.


 


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RE: [WISPA] Physical Seperation

[Kurt Fankhauser]

20mhz separation

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:24 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Physical Seperation

Anyone have a good rule of thumb for physical separation of dishes?
Looking
at installing 3 short masts on a water tower with 2 dishes on each mast.
1
will be horizontal and 1 vertical and both will be 5GHz. Is there a
recommendation on how far the 2 antennas should physically be apart to
minimize interference?

Cheers,

P.
 

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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Is there a company that you can buy VoIP service from and then resell it
to your customers?

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Hendry
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

Anyone got a way to offer triple play via wireless yet? I heard of
someone
working on a product but no idea if anything has been released yet.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: 28 December 2005 14:38
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and 
sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one 
bill, but it can be one call.

Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been

> over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive

> to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up 
> subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their 
> satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to 
> a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets 
> behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, 
> the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE.


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RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Kurt Fankhauser]

 "...if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or 
 keeping them out of a specific territory  by  doing this.."


That’s why god invented the canopy cluster...



Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

It is as simple as knowing the MAC addy of your Access Point. You would 
have to be either pretty stupid or a complete Newbie to the wireless 
world to let a fake SSID trip you up.  

   Kurt - - if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or 
keeping them out of a specific territory  by  doing this - - you are the

Newbie :-)

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600





Tom DeReggi wrote:

>> How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?
>
>
> Yes, Hide SSID.  However, that does not help, if you are offering a 
> self signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the 
> subscriber in the first place.  I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly 
> subscribers can be transitioned to a different SSID. In other words 
> advertise one, and then after you qualify them and have their contact 
> info, mail them a new preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted.
>
> But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that 
> does not have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, 
> that has connection security built in.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>
>
>> How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?  Hide SSID and 
>> change it every so often?
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>
>>> I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to 
>>> those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed 
>>> to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on 
>>> legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to 
>>> degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd 
>>> likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever 
>>> that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything 
>>> you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work

>>> of your tactics.
>>>
>>> Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far 
>>> better mutually benefit WISPs.  I'd advise re-tinking your strategy.
>>>
>>> At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to 
>>> associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is 
>>> that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your 
>>> neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide 
>>> wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd 
>>> be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then 
>>> you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page

>>> for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to 
>>> continue at low bandwdith.  The last thing you want to do is play 
>>> Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are 
>>> the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or 
>>> don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone 
>>> that they've developed animosity towards.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>>>
>>>
 Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what 
 positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a

 good thing to do.
 Scriv


 Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

> I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each

> other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their

> clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they 
> try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they 
> cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up 
> clients in my area.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
>
> WAVELINC
>
> 114 S. Walnut St.
>
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>
> 419-562-6405
>
> www.wavelinc.com
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
> *To:* 'WISPA General List'
> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual 

Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Ron Wallace]

Well, I certainly am a newbie in many ways.>-Original Message->From: Mac Dearman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 07:52 PM>To: 'WISPA General List'>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP>>It is as simple as knowing the MAC addy of your Access Point. You would >have to be either pretty stupid or a complete Newbie to the wireless >world to let a fake SSID trip you up. >> Kurt - - if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or >keeping them out of a specific territory by doing this - - you are the >Newbie :-)>>Mac Dearman>Maximum Access, LLC.>www.inetsouth.com>www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)>318-728-8600 - Rayville>318-728-9600>>Tom DeReggi wrote: How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?>> Yes, Hide SSID. However, that does not help, if you are offering a >> self signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the >> subscriber in the first place. I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly >> subscribers can be transitioned to a different SSID. In other words >> advertise one, and then after you qualify them and have their contact >> info, mail them a new preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted. But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that >> does not have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, >> that has connection security built in. Tom DeReggi>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP>>> How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Hide SSID and >>> change it every so often?>> Tom DeReggi wrote:>>> I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to  those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed  to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on  legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to  degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd  likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever  that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything  you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work  of your tactics. Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far  better mutually benefit WISPs. I'd advise re-tinking your strategy. At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to  associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is  that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your  neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide  wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd  be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then  you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page  for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to  continue at low bandwdith. The last thing you want to do is play  Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are  the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or  don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone  that they've developed animosity towards. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List"  Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP> Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what > positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a > good thing to do.> Scriv>>> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:>>> I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each >> other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their >> clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they >> try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they >> cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up >> clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message->> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM>> *To:* 'WISPA General List'>> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see >> if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't >> route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, >> 

Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[Tom DeReggi]

No, not at all.  I vented a frustration that is common in the residential 
market place. There is still a large resisntential population that feels 
differently.
Residential is the most profitable part of our business today. It keeps our 
techncians busy, without delays from landlords. We don't run away from 
competition, we face it, and identify how to combat it.



lower  your residential prices


The latest is COX giving broadband away for free for 6 month, if they buy 
basic cable for the next 6 months at $20 a mon.
(Of course the rate raises after 6 months drastically.)  We can't combat 
many of them with VOIP, because they canned their phones all togeather in 
favor of just their cell phone plans (free evening and phone to phone 
calling on net.).  But we can wait out the price war. A certain percentage 
will keep service for quality support. It costs us nothing for our 
infrastructure to exist in place. We need the cell sites live anyway, to 
serve the business customers. We do all our own wireless transport so no 
reocurring fees need to go out to telco carriers.  When th consumers get 
frustrated with Cable, they always come back, and then we hit them with a 
second install fee :-).  We just loose the revenue for six months for a 
portion of them :-(


We still stand tall as the premium provider of quality performance and 
service.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "dustin jurman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play



Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower
your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company 
comes
after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across 
the

board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the
fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an
issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your 
down

by a few Touchdowns.

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs,
I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The
residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. 
I

get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new
service.  A common response is, "we loved your service and support, and 
the

Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my
business with a price I could not turn down." Learning after the fact of
their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a
Double play that could offer near the same value proposition.  I then try 
to

get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service
they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the
cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, "but
the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill", and it
just makes it easy.  So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for
their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support 
to

save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two
envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them.

My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated 
by

saving money.  In order to keep residential business, it does need
consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you
offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband
provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are
talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer,
attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without
me knowing it is even happening.  We can be competitive and compete on
price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential 
markets,
we are all going to have to offer double or triple play.  I don't want to 
be

a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is
making me change my business model.  I either join the current trends, or 
I
lose clients.  The question is does an ISP only want to have the 
opportunity
to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all 
day
long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able 
to

compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I
don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to 
be

able to offer enough value to enough people t

Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Ron Wallace]

Thanks Butch>-Original Message->From: Butch Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 06:38 PM>To: 'WISPA General List'>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP>>On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Ron Wallace wrote:>>>OK guys, what is a virtual AP, if they are more reliable than my >>existing APs, I take a truck load.>>Virtual AP functionality is documented here:>http://www.mikrotik.com/docs/ros/2.9/interface/wireless>>-- >Butch Evans>BPS Networks http://www.bpsnetworks.com/>Bernie, MO>Mikrotik Certified Consultant>(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)>-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/>
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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Scott Reed]

Yep, found that mount.  Couple bucks less and Electro-Comm, too.
I am looking at Schedule 40 steel pipe, 21' from a local guy.  Almost $100.  Where do you find aluminum, and about how much for 20'?

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 


 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because 


Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will 
believe!

-- Original Message 
---

From: Bob Moldashel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 


To: WISPA General List  


Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:51:26 -0500 


Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 



> Scott Reed wrote: 
> 
> 

> I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I 
would  
> 

> have expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better. 

> 

> 
> 

> Scott Reed 
> 

> Owner 
> 

> NewWays 
> 

> Wireless Networking 
> 

> Network Design, Installation and Administration 
> 

> www.nwwnet.net  

> 

> 
> 
> 

Ahhh...No.  2' is not enough.  My rule of thumb is 15-20%. 
> 

> 

I know the discussion is on pole mounts..Here is my suggestion. 
> 

> 

First you need a mount:    
> 

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=15433&eventPage=1 

> 
> 

Then you can get a length of thick wall aluminum pipe 2" x  ?   
This  
> 

comes in 20', 24' and 40' lengths here. 
> 
> 

Mount and smile.  Ready to go.   About $ 225 total... Real 
mounting...No  
> 

game playing.  No "making it work". 
> 
> 

-B- 
> 
> 

--  
> 

Bob Moldashel 
> 

Lakeland Communications, Inc. 
> 

Broadband Deployment Group 
> 

1350 Lincoln Avenue 
> 

Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 
> 

800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 
> 

631-585-5558 Fax 
> 

516-551-1131 Cell 
> 
> 

--  
> 

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
> 
> 

Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
> 

http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
> 

> 

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
--- 
End of Original Message 
---






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RE: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?

[CHUCK PROFITO]

http://www.airvast.com

 -Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent:   Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:44 PM
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Cc: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
Subject:[WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?



thanks!
marlon

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[Bob Moldashel]

dustin jurman wrote:


Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower
your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company comes
after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across the
board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the
fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an
issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your down
by a few Touchdowns. 


Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 


Hey Dustin,

Do you do wireless down there  Your website says nothing about it. 
Just fiber and DSL


Just wondering...

-B-

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

[Bob Moldashel]

Peter R. wrote:


Bob Moldashel wrote:

Unfortunately...this is an uphill battle.  You need to sell customers 
on services.  DO NOT get into a pricing war with them.  You WILL 
loose


Yes..you will wind up with fewer customers.

-B-



It is not the number of subs, it is the number of PROFITABLE subs that 
count.


Regards,

Peter



This is true.  I have enough practice doing this.  Customers who are a 
PITA and don't pay their bill are required to pay security for more than 
one months service.  And everyone that has a contract and doesn't pay 
goes to small claims court regardless of their reason.  Business is 
business.  It's nothing personal I tell them.


We had a few customers try to get "cute" when cable modem service became 
available in their area and decided to try and cancel service.  Most 
understood their contract when it was explained to them but two decided 
to not pay and I have a court date with them the second week of January. 


God Bless America!

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Bob Moldashel]

Scott Reed wrote:

I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I would 
have expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better.


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 




Ahhh...No.  2' is not enough.  My rule of thumb is 15-20%.

I know the discussion is on pole mounts..Here is my suggestion.

First you need a mount:   
http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=15433&eventPage=1


Then you can get a length of thick wall aluminum pipe 2" x  ?   This 
comes in 20', 24' and 40' lengths here.


Mount and smile.  Ready to go.   About $ 225 total... Real mounting...No 
game playing.  No "making it work".


-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

thanks!
marlon

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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[dustin jurman]

Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or lower
your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable company comes
after your customers. You would have to apply your reduced rates across the
board to your residential customers. Coming back to a customer after the
fact is a tough proposition, I don't believe single bill is so much of an
issue for you as trying to save a customer in the 4th quarter when your down
by a few Touchdowns. 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:28 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs,
I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The
residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. I
get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new
service.  A common response is, "we loved your service and support, and the
Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my
business with a price I could not turn down." Learning after the fact of
their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a
Double play that could offer near the same value proposition.  I then try to
get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service
they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the
cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, "but
the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill", and it
just makes it easy.  So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for
their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to
save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two
envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them.

My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated by
saving money.  In order to keep residential business, it does need
consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you
offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband
provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are
talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer,
attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without
me knowing it is even happening.  We can be competitive and compete on
price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential markets,
we are all going to have to offer double or triple play.  I don't want to be
a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is
making me change my business model.  I either join the current trends, or I
lose clients.  The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity
to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day
long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able to
compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I
don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to be
able to offer enough value to enough people to justify that percentage of
the population to chose me over the competition and choices they have.  If
that can be done, my company has value, and survivabilty regardless of what
competition comes to town.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play


> If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and 
> sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one 
> bill, but it can be one call.
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
>> Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
>> over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to

>> buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to 
>> do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and 
>> cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle 
>> provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their

>> phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets 
>> turned off, and the PHONE.
>
>
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Subscribe/U

Re: [WISPA] WISPA Buying CoOp

[Brian Rohrbacher]

In the sense that I got the prices, yes.  Finding 10 WISPs who want ten 
CPEs of the same brand has proven difficult.  :)  Bunch of crazy WISPs 
anyways.  Everyone says ya great thats cool.and then sits on their 
thumbs.  I did what I could.  Regardless, I have yet to make my 900 
decision anyway.  I was leaning to Canopy, (thus the group) but I myself 
was not ready to order.  I was still willing to do all the work for free 
to get it going even if I didn't use the gear.  just like what Matt said 
about his Cellular Expert program.  If it's free people don't want it. 

Anyway, I like to keep my options open anyway.  I will be testing the 
Ubiquiti cards out next week for a manufacturer (so he says) :)  I am 
leaning at that now.  This vender has a lot coming out and I like it.  
Looks like it will be sub 300 900mhz cpe at my discount, so we'll see.  
That $50 savings per cpe (for me) will be the difference from paying 
cash for it to leasing it.  I want to pay cash.  No matter what way I 
go, my 900 decision will come by Feb 10th.  If I decide Canopy, I'll 
PUSH the group.  Otherwise, people will have to come to me about it.  
I'll do it as my offer still stands, but I'm not going to push it.


Alex, thanks for the late night on getting that list setup.  Sorry 
everyone was full of bull about actually wanting to do it.  :(


Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


Out of curiosity -- how did that end up? Where you able to prove my
naysaying wrong?

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17


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Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Mac Dearman]

It is as simple as knowing the MAC addy of your Access Point. You would 
have to be either pretty stupid or a complete Newbie to the wireless 
world to let a fake SSID trip you up.  

  Kurt - - if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or 
keeping them out of a specific territory  by  doing this - - you are the 
Newbie :-)


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600





Tom DeReggi wrote:


How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?



Yes, Hide SSID.  However, that does not help, if you are offering a 
self signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the 
subscriber in the first place.  I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly 
subscribers can be transitioned to a different SSID. In other words 
advertise one, and then after you qualify them and have their contact 
info, mail them a new preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted.


But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that 
does not have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, 
that has connection security built in.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP


How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?  Hide SSID and 
change it every so often?


Tom DeReggi wrote:

I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to 
those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed 
to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on 
legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to 
degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd 
likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever 
that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything 
you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work 
of your tactics.


Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far 
better mutually benefit WISPs.  I'd advise re-tinking your strategy.


At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to 
associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is 
that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your 
neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide 
wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd 
be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then 
you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page 
for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to 
continue at low bandwdith.  The last thing you want to do is play 
Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are 
the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or 
don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone 
that they've developed animosity towards.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP


Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what 
positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a 
good thing to do.

Scriv


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they 
try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they 
cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up 
clients in my area.


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see 
if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't 
route based on Virtual AP SSID


Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, 
on a wholesale level...


 




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's 
name? They call the competitor who says, "We don't do that." Then 
what, do you get called by the competitor?
I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name 
help you?


I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the 
futur

Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Ron Wallace wrote:

OK guys, what is a virtual AP, if they are more reliable than my 
existing APs, I take a truck load.


Virtual AP functionality is documented here:
http://www.mikrotik.com/docs/ros/2.9/interface/wireless

--
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Ron Wallace]

OK guys, what is a virtual AP, if they are more reliable than my existing APs, I take a truck load.>-Original Message->From: Butch Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:51 AM>To: 'WISPA General List'>Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP>>On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Paul Hendry wrote:>>>What other things can be assigned per virtual SSID? It would be >>nice if you could set separate frequencies (or channel bandwidths) >>but I doubt this is technically possible.>>Pretty much everything can be handled differently on virtual APs, >except the obvious things, which you mentioned above. Your "normal" >and "virtual" AP will run on the same frequency, but many other >settings are available. It is just another interface to the MT. >You can have different firewall rules, different QOS settings, >different Hotspot. Pretty much anything that you can do on an >interface, you can do on a virtual AP.>>-- >Butch Evans>BPS Networks http://www.bpsnetworks.com/>Bernie, MO>Mikrotik Certified Consultant>(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)>-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/>
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Re: [WISPA] Triple Play

[Peter R.]

To quote a DBS guy: The Broadcast TV market is static, at this point, 
everyone is competing for everyone else's dollars.


And at the same time, the networks are releasing shows for download. How 
much longer before most of the TV shows are downloadable? What happens 
to broadcast TV then???


Triple Play is great in an MDU/MTU environment. But stand alone to 
individual resi units seems like it would be more trouble than it could 
be worth except in a rural market that you could capture because the 
cableco or ILEC didn't.


My 25 cents worth before I head out for New Year's!

Best wishes,

Peter @ RAD-INFO  (4isps.com)
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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios - Advertising Battle

[Peter R.]

John Scrivner wrote:


>  But Resi doesn't have much future in MSAs.

Can you explain this statement for me? Excuse my lack of knowledge 
here. What are you referring to as a MSA? Also let us hear a little 
more detail about this statement please.


I use MSA to mean any of the 30 or so metro areas in the US.

With $15 DSL and FiOS and cable triple play, competing in the Metro is 
really getting tough in the Resi space.

The one bill. The give-aways. The constant advertising.
If you do MDU/MTU, you have a good shot at it, but individual 
residential units in Metro areas is a tough market.
Unless you can come up with enough of a value add (and I have some ideas 
on this, read my newsletter) to stand out above the Tele-Baron crowd.


I woulod go on, but I have to pack for a trip.

Once the client gets FiOS, all copper is clipped - and they cannot 
ever use a CLEC again.



I thought if the service drop was used to deliver phone service that 
the telco had to allow UNE access to the line. This has changed? I 
knew it had gone away in terms of access to  advanced broadband 
facilities like DSLAMs and such but I thought the RBOCs still had to 
give up access to subscriber lines regardless of the media? Please 
elaborate.

Thank you,
Scriv


VZ is clipping the copper and moving the VZ phone service to the fiber. 
The customer gets no choice.

Anything beyond a DLC or Fiber node is pretty much lost to the CLEC.
Any copper facilities that get replaced by fiber are lost as well.
FTTx does not have to be shared - and that is exactly what FiOS is.
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Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Tom DeReggi]

Self defense is another matter all togeather. If someone starts playing hard 
ball, so be it if you play hardball back. My point was that good ethics 
often prevents the need to ever play hard ball, and everyone wins.
The concept of thinking that another player will never play on your field 
just isn't realistic. Competition is going to come, and WISPs need to find a 
way to deal with it amicably, or the industry loses.  With that said, if the 
other party won't play ball nice, well then, you do what you have to do. 
But the battling WISPs can only handle so much pain before they both self 
destruct themselves.




Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Davis - NoDial.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP


If you have a competitor on a nearby tower who is uncooperative with you 
on channel coordination or whatever, I could see this as a way to "goof 
with" your competitor, by having his clients associate with you instead, 
and flood their technical support lines with calls. Having the virtual AP 
only run from 3:30pm to 4:30pm every other Monday could really make things 
fun for them to figure out.


Thats a mean thing to do, and I would never recommend that anyone do unto 
others as they wouldn't have done to them.


If a competitor goes broke and pulls the plug on his AP, this could REALLY 
be benificial, as you could advertise on the hotspot signin screen that 
there will be no setup fee for former brandX clients.


If you turn on universal client, you might pick up a customer who sees 
your tower better than your competitor. About as underhanded and unethical 
as callforwarding his sales line to yours, but 


Pete Davis
NoDial.net



John Scrivner wrote:

Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive 
effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to 
do.

Scriv


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to 
hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out 
why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area.


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Rick Smith

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if 
it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route 
based on Virtual AP SSID


Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a 
wholesale level...




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Scott Reed

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They 
call the competitor who says, "We don't do that." Then what, do you get 
called by the competitor?
I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help 
you?


I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the 
future.


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, 
because

Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP


Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only


do DSL) :)



I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to


a local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" -


the virtual SSID thing was a natural win...

Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit


because of the virtual ssid's ...


R

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Behalf Of Pete Davis


Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP

Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a


secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it.



Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful


during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so


you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid.
I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on


the same tower/AP, like if you have 

[WISPA] WISPA Buying CoOp

[Charles Wu]

Out of curiosity -- how did that end up? Where you able to prove my
naysaying wrong?

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play - Consumers

[Peter R.]

One bill.  Yeah, some people like it.
But if the combined services are less money, you can make a case for 2 
bills.

How can you make it easier for them to pay the bill???
Have you seen how hard VZ makes e-bill

You need to market to your own customers. Stay in front of them. Let 
them know what else you sell.
How do you increase ARPU or Referrals unless you are creatively in front 
of your clients???


On the flip side, if you don't want to do it, bring in a Strategic Partner.
"We specialize in great Networks and Internet; DISH is great at TV. 
Together you get the best package".

If it is a MDU, talk to SMS about doing triple-play there. (Or call me).

If you want to compete in Metros, you need to have a Marketing Plan and 
work it every day.
You have to become a niche player or find a new way to make people look 
at the Internet.

I have some ideas in every news-letter (www.rad-info.net/newsletters/).

You don't have so many opportunities that you can let them go without a 
fight.


Happy New Year!

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.


Tom DeReggi wrote:

One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential 
MTUs, I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. 
The residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars 
savings. I get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to 
their new service.  A common response is, "we loved your service and 
support, and the Cable companies was horrible through the hole 
process, but they won my business with a price I could not turn down." 
Learning after the fact of their intent to cancel and that they were 
not aware that I also offered a Double play that could offer near the 
same value proposition.  I then try to get them to switch back, as its 
no more of a hassle to cancel the service they just installed than 
mine. I then offer them a better price than the cable company does for 
the bundled services. Customer then responds, "but the Cable company 
will let me have all the services on one bill", and it just makes it 
easy.  So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for their 
time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to 
save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two 
envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them.


My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and 
modivated by saving money.  In order to keep residential business, it 
does need consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the 
services you offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be 
just a broadband provider, we also need to offer the other services, 
or our clients are talking to our competitors for the other services 
that we don't offer, attempting to steer them from using us for our 
core services also, without me knowing it is even happening.  We can 
be competitive and compete on price, when we know that we need to. If 
we play in the residential markets, we are all going to have to offer 
double or triple play.  I don't want to be a TV provider or a Phone 
company, But I don't have a choice. The market is making me change my 
business model.  I either join the current trends, or I lose clients.  
The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity to serve 
the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day 
long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be 
able to compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones 
business, and I don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with 
my 1%. But I need to be able to offer enough value to enough people to 
justify that percentage of the population to chose me over the 
competition and choices they have.  If that can be done, my company 
has value, and survivabilty regardless of what competition comes to town.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 



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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[Paul Hendry]

Anyone got a way to offer triple play via wireless yet? I heard of someone
working on a product but no idea if anything has been released yet.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: 28 December 2005 14:38
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and 
sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one 
bill, but it can be one call.

Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
> over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive 
> to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up 
> subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their 
> satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to 
> a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets 
> behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, 
> the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE.


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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

[Tom DeReggi]

Matt,

Great point, that many forget.

For the record, there were several unlicensed products that ahve been 
marketed to mobility, such as Alvarion 900Mhz. Does Alvarion 900 mobile 
product llow subscribers to maintain state, when switching APs?  My 
understanding is that a vehichle in motion (at not to high a speed) could 
successfully use the service, however, it would infact be a dirty 
copnnection break when switching APs, meaning lossing connection with one, 
and then searching for the second after connection lsot to first.  Is that 
correct, Alvarion people?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing


FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot 
roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP the 
client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves 
handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a cell 
phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. Wi-Fi 
clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The difference is 
related to maintaining state on any network connections, which is 
especially important for VoIP and VPN.


-Matt

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this 
point




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf

Of John Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with
fiber


John


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Ah but what about the new customer  who is comparing FIOS to what I 
offer?



FIOS


will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv )

Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around


boston,


ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc

Dan






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On


Behalf


Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts!

-B-


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting 
close



and

reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - 
the





15Mbps




for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to


beat,

currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the 
customer


Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps  $34.95 - $39.95
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95








--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[Tom DeReggi]

One bill has a bigger impact than people think. In our residential MTUs, 
I've lost 30% of our MTU subscribers to triple play providers. The 
residenmtial client base has very little loyalty over a 5 dollars savings. I 
get the cancellation request AFTER they have transferred to their new 
service.  A common response is, "we loved your service and support, and the 
Cable companies was horrible through the hole process, but they won my 
business with a price I could not turn down." Learning after the fact of 
their intent to cancel and that they were not aware that I also offered a 
Double play that could offer near the same value proposition.  I then try to 
get them to switch back, as its no more of a hassle to cancel the service 
they just installed than mine. I then offer them a better price than the 
cable company does for the bundled services. Customer then responds, "but 
the Cable company will let me have all the services on one bill", and it 
just makes it easy.  So my conclusion is they ahve a much higher value for 
their time than they do for mine. They'll give up my high quality support to 
save $5, but they won't take the time to write two checks and seal two 
envelopes, to save the $5 that I offer them.


My point is consumers have a short memory, little loyalty, and modivated by 
saving money.  In order to keep residential business, it does need 
consistent marketing to remind them you are there, and the services you 
offer. What we learned the hard way is that we can't be just a broadband 
provider, we also need to offer the other services, or our clients are 
talking to our competitors for the other services that we don't offer, 
attempting to steer them from using us for our core services also, without 
me knowing it is even happening.  We can be competitive and compete on 
price, when we know that we need to. If we play in the residential markets, 
we are all going to have to offer double or triple play.  I don't want to be 
a TV provider or a Phone company, But I don't have a choice. The market is 
making me change my business model.  I either join the current trends, or I 
lose clients.  The question is does an ISP only want to have the opportunity 
to serve the underserved? I can keep customers with no other options all day 
long, but thats a cowardly way to go about a business. I want to be able to 
compete in served markets. I don't need to win everyones business, and I 
don't need majority market share, I'm satisfied with my 1%. But I need to be 
able to offer enough value to enough people to justify that percentage of 
the population to chose me over the competition and choices they have.  If 
that can be done, my company has value, and survivabilty regardless of what 
competition comes to town.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play


If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and 
sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one 
bill, but it can be one call.


Tom DeReggi wrote:

Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive to 
buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up subscribers to 
do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their satelite and 
cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to a signle 
provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets behind on their 
phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, the broadband gets 
turned off, and the PHONE.



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Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Tom DeReggi]

How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?


Yes, Hide SSID.  However, that does not help, if you are offering a self 
signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the subscriber in the 
first place.  I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly subscribers can be 
transitioned to a different SSID. In other words advertise one, and then 
after you qualify them and have their contact info, mail them a new 
preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted.


But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that does not 
have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, that has 
connection security built in.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP


How can I avoid my competition doing this to me?  Hide SSID and change it 
every so often?


Tom DeReggi wrote:

I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to those 
type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed to admit it 
openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on legality. You just 
provided evidence that you purposely attempt to degrade another 
businesses ability to do business, where you'd likely lose now in a suit 
for tortuous interference (or what ever that is called), if ever taken up 
against you. Secondly, anything you do to them, ultimately can be done 
back to you, if they get work of your tactics.


Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far 
better mutually benefit WISPs.  I'd advise re-tinking your strategy.


At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to 
associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is that 
your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your neighbor 
was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide wifi. If you 
insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd be much better off, 
having their clients connect to you, and then you pass them to your 
captive portal signup page, with a splash page for better rates and/or 
performance options, with an option to continue at low bandwdith.  The 
last thing you want to do is play Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia 
protection money), stating we are the ones destroying your ability to use 
the Internet, pay us, or don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy 
service from someone that they've developed animosity towards.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

- Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP


Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive 
effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to 
do.

Scriv


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to 
hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure 
out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area.


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Rick Smith

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if 
it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route 
based on Virtual AP SSID


Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a 
wholesale level...





*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Scott Reed

*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? 
They call the competitor who says, "We don't do that." Then what, do 
you get called by the competitor?
I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help 
you?


I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the 
future.


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, 
because

Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP


Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competito

Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I have used 2 inch pipe before.  Got it in a 20ft section.  No welding
or couplers.

Scott Reed wrote:

  
  
  I am looking at using 2" industrial tubing or 2" rigid
conduit.  1" just wouldn't do and I am leery of 1-1/2 being enough as
well.
  
  
Scott Reed 
Owner 
NewWays 
Wireless Networking 
Network Design, Installation and Administration 
  www.nwwnet.net 
  
The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas,
because 
Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!
  
  
  -- Original Message ---
  
From: "Tom Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "WISPA General List"  
Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:43:27 -0500 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 
  
> I like the idea, but not the material. I ran into the same type of
issue at 
> my house. I have a 50' Pi-Rod Solid rod free standing tower, but
needed to 
> be at about 65'. I took 2 10' 1" ID sections of galvanized water
pipe, 
> screwed them together and had them arc welded. It was a heavy
beast to get 
> up the tower and mounted, but it got the job done. I hate to see
mast pipe 
> sway in the wind and did not have room to guy wire it. Bigger is
always 
> better in all the things I build! 
> 
> Tom 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Scott Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List"
 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:13 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 
> 
> I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I
would have 
> expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better. 
> 
> Scott Reed 
> Owner 
> NewWays 
> Wireless Networking 
> Network Design, Installation and Administration 
> www.nwwnet.net
  
> 
> The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but
Christmas, because 
> Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! 
> 
> -- Original Message --- 
> From: Blair Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: WISPA General List  
> Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:58:02 -0500 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 
> 
> > I have used 2 10 ft masts plugged together to make a 20 ft...
  Then,  
1/2 
> > inch threaded rod and commercial pipe hangers.  bore a hole
thru the pole 
> > 1 ft from the top.  another hole 2 ft down from that.  use a
threaded rod 
> > in each hole with a pipe hanger and large washer on one end
and a large 
> > washer and nut on the other.  Put your mast in the pipe
hangers and adjust 
> > as needed. 
> > 
> > Scott Reed wrote: 
>  I need to mount a 24dB grid 15' above the top of an existing
privately 
> owned utility pole. Any suggestions on bracket, mast, etc.? 
> 
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
  --- End of Original Message ---
  
  


-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17


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RE: [WISPA] dual band

[Paul Hendry]

Has anyone used a dual polarized dish to provide 2 simultaneous 5GHz links?
If so, how and if by using band pass filters, where can you get them from?

Cheers,

P.,

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: 28 December 2005 13:27
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] dual band

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=345&subgroupId=40

-Matt

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I'm looking for a dual band  high gain panel antenna (ie: 2.4ghz and 5ghz
19db+)
>- does such a beast exist?
>
>Thanks
>
>Dan
>
>
>  
>

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[WISPA] Physical Seperation

[Paul Hendry]

Anyone have a good rule of thumb for physical separation of dishes? Looking
at installing 3 short masts on a water tower with 2 dishes on each mast. 1
will be horizontal and 1 vertical and both will be 5GHz. Is there a
recommendation on how far the 2 antennas should physically be apart to
minimize interference?

Cheers,

P.
 

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

[Tom DeReggi]

The requirement is for cost to come down. When the cost comes down to the 
level that we can build the adequate redundancy into our design, it will be 
a reality to compete.  My hope is that GB wireless will get here when it is 
needed to compete for the market share before FOIS gets it first.  Getting 
market share after the fact is difficult and costly.


Travis's point on reliabilty is a good point. Tripple play is going to be 
the future competitor, and to offer tripple play reliabilty gets WAY more 
important.  Homebrew backyard designed networks are going to become a thing 
of the past. The industry got away with it with Broadband alone, but tripple 
play is a new animal.


The problem we have is that we can't leverage existing inplace 
infrastructure like the Telcos and Cable companies. They already have 
inbound revenue to pay the cost of the infrastructure in place. For them the 
tripple play is just a slight redesign, and they economies of scale to pay 
for their migrations and upgrades, and most importantly to use as calateral 
for their expansion loans. For new player in the WISP world, we don't have 
that advantage.  If we add a radio every mile along a road, we eat the cost 
of the UPS and electricity every mile down the road as well.  Thats hard to 
eat, when we have to pay cash for it all upfront. So financing/investment 
sources are going to have to become more easy obtainable to fund the growth. 
One of the things I liked about GigaBeam was their model to finance the gear 
through the manufacturer. It takes that limitation out of the equation.  OF 
course if gear ever gets sub $2000, financing will be less of an issue. It 
will be interesting to see how things develop.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really 
need)



I am not going to debate what the ultimate broadband system architecture is 
too long because there really is no perfect solution. There are way too 
many ways of doing things for us to debate it too much.  I used to be in 
the Cable Television industry. In my 10 years in that business I saw 
several different architectures used to deploy cable television networks. 
What I am proposing here is no more or less capable of being a solid 
delivery platform than these other designs I saw in the past. It is simply 
different.


There are more points of failure in what I am proposing than there is in 
direct fiber runs. That does not mean it is a bad solution. It simply 
means there are more possible points of failure. The impact of this factor 
can be minimized if proper design methods are employed. There is no 
mention here of how deep a cascade would go for these nodes of millimeter 
wave. We could all get into the specifics of node count, power backup, 
loop architecture, etc. but the long and short of it is this. If radios 
are designed and built with low cost,  low incidence of failure and 
cascade counts are kept to a minimum then a very acceptable and practical 
design can be built in a cost effective way to deliver a triple play 
solution.


The ability to deploy an entire community-wide network with this design in 
a timely fashion is probably the most attractive factor in this proposed 
design. I am reasonably certain that a well trained crew could setup an 
entire small town in just a few days. I really believe that in time you 
will see millimeter wave radios used as a way of delivering high bandwidth 
for multiple service offerings in WISP operations. Is it "the" broadband 
architecture? I doubt it. I also doubt there is a perfect architecture out 
there. Regardless I am certain what I am proposing is very capable of 
being an effective platform for triple play deployment. Until there are 
low-cost reliable CMOS based millimeter wave radios this discussion is 
academic.

Scriv



Travis Johnson wrote:


John,

I believe there is such a thing coming, and that it may fit in some 
applications. But I can't see carrying data, VoIP and TVIP across a 
wireless backbone that is all fed from the radio next to it. Unless you 
are going to run a complete mesh type network (which would be hard with 
radios that only reach a few hundred feet), then each radio is dependant 
on the upstream radio. So to go around a neighborhood with 100 homes, you 
could be talking 20-30 radios, plus the WiMAX or Wifi access points, etc.


You've heard the 12 days of Christmas song that says "One light goes out 
they all go out", right? :)


We currently have a fully looped fiber ring around our city. We currently 
have about 50 customer drops, and we run Cisco switches with 
Spanning-Tree at 1gbps speeds. Even at this level, there are still 
problems. Fiber outages, switches that fail, long term power outages (8+ 
hours) at customer locations, etc.

Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Scott Reed]

I am looking at using 2" industrial tubing or 2" rigid conduit.  1" just wouldn't do and I am leery of 1-1/2 being enough as well.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 


 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because 


Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will 
believe!

-- Original Message 
---

From: "Tom Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 


To: "WISPA General List"  


Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:43:27 -0500 


Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 



> I like the idea, but not the material. I ran into the same type of 
issue at  
> 

my house. I have a 50' Pi-Rod Solid rod free standing tower, but needed to  

> 

be at about 65'. I took 2 10' 1" ID sections of galvanized water pipe,  

> 

screwed them together and had them arc welded. It was a heavy beast to get  

> 

up the tower and mounted, but it got the job done. I hate to see mast pipe  

> 

sway in the wind and did not have room to guy wire it. Bigger is always  

> 

better in all the things I build! 
> 
> 

Tom 
> 
> 

- Original Message -  
> 

From: "Scott Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
 
> 

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:13 
> 

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 
> 
> 

I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I would 
have  
> 

expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better. 
> 
> 

Scott Reed 
> 

Owner 
> 

NewWays 
> 

Wireless Networking 
> 

Network Design, Installation and Administration 
> 

www.nwwnet.net 
> 

> 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because 

> 

Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! 
> 
> 

-- Original Message ---  
> 

From: Blair Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 

To: WISPA General List  
> 

Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:58:02 -0500 
> 

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 
> 
> 

> I have used 2 10 ft masts plugged together to make a 20 ft...   Then,  
1/2  
> 

> inch threaded rod and commercial pipe hangers.  bore a hole thru the 
pole  
> 

> 1 ft from the top.  another hole 2 ft down from that.  use a 
threaded rod  
> 

> in each hole with a pipe hanger and large washer on one end and a large  

> 

> washer and nut on the other.  Put your mast in the pipe hangers and 
adjust  
> 

> as needed. 
> 

> 
> 

> Scott Reed wrote: 
> 

  I need to mount a 24dB grid 15' above the top of an existing privately  

> 

owned utility pole. Any suggestions on bracket, mast, etc.?  
> 
> 

--  
> 

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org 
> 
> 

Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
> 

http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless 
> 

> 

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
--- 
End of Original Message 
---






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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing (how much speed do they really need)

[Tom DeReggi]

That is not at all the case for 70 Ghz.

The default Gigabeam antenna size for long range is approx 2 feet. (you can 
get 1-7 miles on that, more likely 1-2 miles for most rainfall areas for 
5-9s).
Gigabeam also now has a small footprint 12" round antenna model now, for 
1/2 - 1 mile links which delivers 5-9s.


With 60-70 Ghz spectrum long distances is very hard to acheive, so it is a 
technology designed for short distances in general. But in Urban and 
suburban enviroments 1-2 miles is not out of the realms of possibilities.


You might be in a different situation in Peurto Rico, in a tropical area 
that has much higher rain fall than in my mid-eastern state.  My responses 
had not been considering geographic locations, as some location will have to 
much rain fall for the UWB to be usable.


The bigger issue is that the technology is PtP today. And it will never be a 
PtMP product as typical in today's cell technology. The beam is to narrow. 
Exact precise alignment, and rock solid poles that won't sway are required 
for the technology.  So it is a PTP technology.  But I see lots of 
advancements that could happen down the road. What if they made a smart 
phased array type antenna that could work at those spectrum ranges? What 
could the technology do, if it was deployed for lower bandwidth 
applications, using less complex modulations and shorter channels? For 
example, what if they made a Phased array antenna that had 100 different 
antennas built into it, one degree appart, and used a seperate channel for 
each one, and sliced the large GBps spectrum range down to many small 20mbps 
channels? Does it exist today, NO. But it could as technology develops.


If we look at Gigabeams technogy, the approach they use is they take the 
entire spectrum range to offer the Link, that way they can use a less 
efficient modulation that is more survivable to gain the GB capacity. 
Because the beam is so narrow and short range, they can reuse channels 
several times from the same roof, and easilly not interfere with links on 
the building down the street. There is a reason its called a pencil beam :-)


Many things can be done to lower costs. For example what if they make a PtMP 
product that is really just several radio systems combined in a single case, 
which only allow 2 or 3 end points to connect. Sharing the case, mainboard, 
and mounts will save significantly.  The cost of GB equipment today is 
controlled by market worth and intellectual property value, not actually 
cost to replicate and manufacture.  They ahve to keep it high per unit now, 
because they want providers to buy one per site. But when they start making 
dual radio models, it allows them to lower the price based on one unit still 
being used per site.  For example, they could use the mentality, taht to 
deploy &) Ghz you need reliabilty and a Bus or ring topology, and include it 
free, setting the price based on what they value of 1 GB will be to the 
tenants within the tenant building served with it.


Evolution does not happen over night. But the good news is that Evolution in 
the wired industry does not happen over night either. 10 years to deploy DSL 
and cable broadband to 70% of the nation, when the cables already existed. 
FIOS may be in your neighborhood, but its not going to be for everyone over 
night, that is a fact. The evolution of GB wireless could take 10 years, or 
maybe it will be two years. But if the market provides the demand, it will 
excellerate the rate at which evolution occurs.  I'm not saying build your 
business model today on GB wireless, that would be insaine. But it very well 
may be a large part of the solution to combat Fiber, as Fiber evolves. 
Right now I get $500 a month fiber only in some remote areas. The day I can 
get FIOS on every corner, the market value of GB wireless will no longer be 
the same, and prive will drop. Provided the owners of the technology don't 
fall into the trap of a Vivato, and overprice their gear for to long, and 
miss the market, and not realize it until its to late.


What I suggest to everyone, expecially if in a FIOS market, is to entertain 
how you could deploy GB wireless if the price point was right.  What sites 
would you use to create 1-2 mile links, if you had to. Be prepared to work 
it into your model.  ITs not going to work for small ISPs in rural america 
at first, as the INternet transit would be way to costly for GB access. But 
for Urban areas its another story.  All our remote fiber links do Transport 
only, and terminate at our central Transir location, with the exception of 
our backup redundant transit link. This allows us to use economy of scale to 
get low cost Transit. We can upgrade only our main transit to GB fiber at 
first, and start building out GB wireless. And then when we have to we'll 
start lighting up 100 mbps fiber transports, and upgrade them to GB when 
revenue is there to pay for it.  The point is, we should all be thinking of 
how we can 

Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Tom Andrews]

I like the idea, but not the material. I ran into the same type of issue at 
my house. I have a 50' Pi-Rod Solid rod free standing tower, but needed to 
be at about 65'. I took 2 10' 1" ID sections of galvanized water pipe, 
screwed them together and had them arc welded. It was a heavy beast to get 
up the tower and mounted, but it got the job done. I hate to see mast pipe 
sway in the wind and did not have room to guy wire it. Bigger is always 
better in all the things I build!


Tom

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:13
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount


I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I would have 
expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better.


Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because
Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

-- Original Message --- 
From: Blair Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: WISPA General List 
Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:58:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

I have used 2 10 ft masts plugged together to make a 20 ft...   Then,  1/2 
inch threaded rod and commercial pipe hangers.  bore a hole thru the pole 
1 ft from the top.  another hole 2 ft down from that.  use a threaded rod 
in each hole with a pipe hanger and large washer on one end and a large 
washer and nut on the other.  Put your mast in the pipe hangers and adjust 
as needed.


Scott Reed wrote:
 I need to mount a 24dB grid 15' above the top of an existing privately 
owned utility pole. Any suggestions on bracket, mast, etc.? 



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RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Paul Hendry wrote:

What other things can be assigned per virtual SSID? It would be 
nice if you could set separate frequencies (or channel bandwidths) 
but I doubt this is technically possible.


Pretty much everything can be handled differently on virtual APs, 
except the obvious things, which you mentioned above.  Your "normal" 
and "virtual" AP will run on the same frequency, but many other 
settings are available.  It is just another interface to the MT. 
You can have different firewall rules, different QOS settings, 
different Hotspot.  Pretty much anything that you can do on an 
interface, you can do on a virtual AP.


--
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Scott Reed]

I like that.  Is 2 ft enough space to hold the other 18 ft?  I would have expected 3ft or more, but the more pipe in the air the better.

Scott Reed 


Owner 


NewWays 


Wireless Networking 


Network Design, Installation and Administration 


www.nwwnet.net 


 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because 


Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will 
believe!

-- Original Message 
---

From: Blair Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 


To: WISPA General List  


Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 09:58:02 -0500 


Subject: Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount 



> 

I have used 2 10 ft masts plugged together to make a 20 ft...   Then, 

1/2 inch threaded rod and commercial pipe hangers.  bore a hole 
thru
the pole 1 ft from the top.  another hole 2 ft down from that.  use 
a
threaded rod in each hole with a pipe hanger and large washer on 
one
end and a large washer and nut on the other.  Put your mast in the 
pipe
hangers and adjust as needed.
> 
> 

Scott Reed 
wrote:

  

  

  I need to mount a 24dB grid 15' above the top of 
an
existing privately owned utility pole. Any suggestions on 
bracket,
mast, 
etc.?
  
> 
> 

Scott Reed 
> 

Owner 
> 

NewWays 
> 

Wireless Networking 
> 

Network Design, Installation and Administration 
> 

  www.nwwnet.net 
> 

> 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but 
Christmas,
because 
> 

Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will 
believe!
  
> 

  

  


No virus found in this incoming 
message.
Checked by AVG Free 
Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 
12/27/2005
  



> 
> 

-- 

Blair 
Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  
Theory240

West Michigan Wireless 
ISP
269-686-8648

A division 
of:
Camp Communication Services, 
INC


--- End of Original Message 
---






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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Blair Davis]

I have used 2 10 ft masts plugged together to make a 20 ft...   Then, 
1/2 inch threaded rod and commercial pipe hangers.  bore a hole thru
the pole 1 ft from the top.  another hole 2 ft down from that.  use a
threaded rod in each hole with a pipe hanger and large washer on one
end and a large washer and nut on the other.  Put your mast in the pipe
hangers and adjust as needed.

Scott Reed wrote:

  
  
  I need to mount a 24dB grid 15' above the top of an
existing privately owned utility pole. Any suggestions on bracket,
mast, etc.?
  
  
Scott Reed 
Owner 
NewWays 
Wireless Networking 
Network Design, Installation and Administration 
  www.nwwnet.net 
  
The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas,
because 
Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!
  
  
  

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-- 
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC



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RE: [WISPA] Re: 70/80/90 GHz licensed, 60 GHz license-exempt

[Paul Hendry]

Anybody know what the Ofcom rules are in the UK for similar?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Stroh
Sent: 28 December 2005 14:30
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Re: 70/80/90 GHz licensed, 60 GHz license-exempt


In the US, 70, 80, and 90 GHz are "licensed lite"; you do have to 
register them. Apologies for envisioning the delicious irony of the 
database being swamped with trying to track and coordinate 300' links. 
Not to mention that, if memory serves, there's a fee to register each 
one of those links.

57-64 GHz, on the other hand, is license-exempt.


Thanks,

Steve


On Dec 27, 2005, at 18:34, John Scrivner wrote:

> The day is going to happen in the "not so distant" future when there 
> will be CMOS based 70 to 90 Ghz radios the size of a pack of smokes. 
> These will only effectively send data about a few hundred feet. These 
> radios will do over 1 Gbps from day one. The idea is to run them back 
> to back from street light pole to pole and have WiMAX, Wifi, 802.11a 
> (insert your favorite client platform radio here) as the client access 
> device to serve a few homes or businesses around the poles.. This 
> gives us a platform for broadband, telephone and cable television all 
> over wireless. This is not a pipe dream. I am about 2 weeks from 
> having my first pole agreement signed. It is going to happen.
>
> The 70 Ghz gear is not going to be a long haul solution. It is going 
> to be a real nice high throughput short haul solution to compete for 
> triple play in cities and even smaller towns eventually. I plan to 
> help prove this as a viable broadband platform in my own community. 
> Now I just wish my friends at Intel would hurry up the development of 
> those CMOS radios! They have all the patents and prototypes today. 
> Bring on the GigE through the air!
> :-)
> Scriv
>
>

---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.stevestroh.com

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios - Advertising Battle

[John Scrivner]

>  But Resi doesn't have much future in MSAs.

Can you explain this statement for me? Excuse my lack of knowledge here. 
What are you referring to as a MSA? Also let us hear a little more 
detail about this statement please.




Once the client gets FiOS, all copper is clipped - and they cannot 
ever use a CLEC again.


I thought if the service drop was used to deliver phone service that the 
telco had to allow UNE access to the line. This has changed? I knew it 
had gone away in terms of access to  advanced broadband facilities like 
DSLAMs and such but I thought the RBOCs still had to give up access to 
subscriber lines regardless of the media? Please elaborate.

Thank you,
Scriv




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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

[Matt Liotta]

FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot 
roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP the 
client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves 
handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a cell 
phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. Wi-Fi 
clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The difference is 
related to maintaining state on any network connections, which is 
especially important for VoIP and VPN.


-Matt

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this point

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of John Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with
fiber


John


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   


Ah but what about the new customer  who is comparing FIOS to what I offer?
 


FIOS
   


will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv )

Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around
 


boston,
   


ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc

Dan




 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
   


Behalf
   


Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts!

-B-


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



   


Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close
 


and
   


reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the


 


15Mbps


   


for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to
 


beat,
   


currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer

Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps$44.95 - $49.95
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps$179.95 - $199.95






 


--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Re: 70/80/90 GHz licensed, 60 GHz license-exempt

[John Scrivner]

Good points. I agree that 60 Ghz is also a nice band for doing this and 
the same millimeter-wave CMOS chipsets should work equally well in that 
band just as well. I am thinking that if we see the newer low cost CMOS 
radios that we will see bulk arrangements made for "license-lite" 
database registration and some sanity in the process. Maybe I am just 
too optimistic. When enough money is at stake though I really think the 
wheels of progress will get some grease. Good to hear from you, Steve. 
What is new with you? I bet everyone would like to hear what you have 
been doing lately. It has been a while.

Cheers,
Scriv



Steve Stroh wrote:



In the US, 70, 80, and 90 GHz are "licensed lite"; you do have to 
register them. Apologies for envisioning the delicious irony of the 
database being swamped with trying to track and coordinate 300' links. 
Not to mention that, if memory serves, there's a fee to register each 
one of those links.


57-64 GHz, on the other hand, is license-exempt.


Thanks,

Steve


On Dec 27, 2005, at 18:34, John Scrivner wrote:

The day is going to happen in the "not so distant" future when there 
will be CMOS based 70 to 90 Ghz radios the size of a pack of smokes. 
These will only effectively send data about a few hundred feet. These 
radios will do over 1 Gbps from day one. The idea is to run them back 
to back from street light pole to pole and have WiMAX, Wifi, 802.11a 
(insert your favorite client platform radio here) as the client 
access device to serve a few homes or businesses around the poles.. 
This gives us a platform for broadband, telephone and cable 
television all over wireless. This is not a pipe dream. I am about 2 
weeks from having my first pole agreement signed. It is going to happen.


The 70 Ghz gear is not going to be a long haul solution. It is going 
to be a real nice high throughput short haul solution to compete for 
triple play in cities and even smaller towns eventually. I plan to 
help prove this as a viable broadband platform in my own community. 
Now I just wish my friends at Intel would hurry up the development of 
those CMOS radios! They have all the patents and prototypes today. 
Bring on the GigE through the air!

:-)
Scriv




---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.stevestroh.com


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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

[danlist]

No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at this point

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of John Thomas
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
> 
> Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with
> fiber
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Ah but what about the new customer  who is comparing FIOS to what I offer?
> FIOS
> >will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv )
> >
> >Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around
> boston,
> >ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf
> >>Of Bob Moldashel
> >>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
> >>To: WISPA General List
> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing
> >>
> >>It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts!
> >>
> >>-B-
> >>
> >>
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is getting close
> and
> >>>reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this pricing - the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>15Mbps
> >>
> >>
> >>>for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be tough to
> beat,
> >>>currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to the customer
> >>>
> >>>Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps$34.95 - $39.95
> >>>Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps   $44.95 - $49.95
> >>>Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps   $179.95 - $199.95
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Bob Moldashel
> >>Lakeland Communications, Inc.
> >>Broadband Deployment Group
> >>1350 Lincoln Avenue
> >>Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
> >>800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
> >>631-585-5558 Fax
> >>516-551-1131 Cell
> >>
> >>--
> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[Peter R.]

If you are going to be Resi, then get a DISH or DTV distributorship and 
sell them Your VoIP and your Internet and the DBS service. Won't be one 
bill, but it can be one call.


Tom DeReggi wrote:

Verizon has been advertising FIOS hard in our markets to, but its been 
over 6 month for some, since advertsied and no FIOS. FIOS is expensive 
to buildout, and they need a certain number of pre-signed up 
subscribers to do it. Its hard to convince people to get rif of their 
satelite and cabled TV. There is security in not being locked down to 
a signle provider for ALL services. I can see it now, someone gets 
behind on their phone bill, and all a sudden the TV gets turned off, 
the broadband gets turned off, and the PHONE.



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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios - Advertising Battle

[Peter R.]

That's the kind of Guerrilla Advertising YOU should be doing.
Pizza boxes, etc.

You might have to go with the old stand-by:
Do you really want Internet from Your Phone Company?
These people can't even get your bill straight.

On Triple-Play: I think that this is a ME-TOO strategy.
If you are chasing after Resi accounts, you might want to look at what 
the pricing is separately for them to buy the TV piece from cable and 
the rest from you.

But Resi doesn't have much future in MSAs.

Remember FiOS voice service has an 8 hour battery backup just like VOIP, 
so their E-911 won't work after a work day.
Once the client gets FiOS, all copper is clipped - and they cannot ever 
use a CLEC again.


Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.
4isps.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Ah but what about the new customer  who is comparing FIOS to what I offer? FIOS
will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv )

Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything around boston,
ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc

Dan
 


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[WISPA] Re: 70/80/90 GHz licensed, 60 GHz license-exempt

[Steve Stroh]

In the US, 70, 80, and 90 GHz are "licensed lite"; you do have to 
register them. Apologies for envisioning the delicious irony of the 
database being swamped with trying to track and coordinate 300' links. 
Not to mention that, if memory serves, there's a fee to register each 
one of those links.


57-64 GHz, on the other hand, is license-exempt.


Thanks,

Steve


On Dec 27, 2005, at 18:34, John Scrivner wrote:

The day is going to happen in the "not so distant" future when there 
will be CMOS based 70 to 90 Ghz radios the size of a pack of smokes. 
These will only effectively send data about a few hundred feet. These 
radios will do over 1 Gbps from day one. The idea is to run them back 
to back from street light pole to pole and have WiMAX, Wifi, 802.11a 
(insert your favorite client platform radio here) as the client access 
device to serve a few homes or businesses around the poles.. This 
gives us a platform for broadband, telephone and cable television all 
over wireless. This is not a pipe dream. I am about 2 weeks from 
having my first pole agreement signed. It is going to happen.


The 70 Ghz gear is not going to be a long haul solution. It is going 
to be a real nice high throughput short haul solution to compete for 
triple play in cities and even smaller towns eventually. I plan to 
help prove this as a viable broadband platform in my own community. 
Now I just wish my friends at Intel would hurry up the development of 
those CMOS radios! They have all the patents and prototypes today. 
Bring on the GigE through the air!

:-)
Scriv




---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.stevestroh.com

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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

[Peter R.]

Bob Moldashel wrote:

Unfortunately...this is an uphill battle.  You need to sell customers 
on services.  DO NOT get into a pricing war with them.  You WILL 
loose


Yes..you will wind up with fewer customers.

-B-


It is not the number of subs, it is the number of PROFITABLE subs that 
count.


Regards,

Peter
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Re: [WISPA] dual band

[Matt Liotta]

http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProducts.do?groupId=345&subgroupId=40

-Matt

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I'm looking for a dual band  high gain panel antenna (ie: 2.4ghz and 5ghz 19db+)
- does such a beast exist?

Thanks

Dan


 



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RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Paul Hendry]

What other things can be assigned per virtual SSID? It would be nice if you
could set separate frequencies (or channel bandwidths) but I doubt this is
technically possible.

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: 27 December 2005 15:49
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, John Scrivner wrote:

>associate and use the AP. One nice feature is the ability to set 
>different AP features for each SSID. For instance you can have 
>different WEP or other security settings for each virtual AP. Nice 
>feature.

Yes, this is a nice feature.  MT also allows you to have unique WEP 
keys per sub, whether you use virtual APs or not.

-- 
Butch Evans
BPS Networks  http://www.bpsnetworks.com/
Bernie, MO
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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RE: [WISPA] dual band

[Paul Hendry]

We use both the superpass dual-band/polarized sectors
(http://www.superpass.com/SPD-GSH2T-J12T.html) and the Radiowaves dual
polarized 5GHz dishes. The Superpass sectors give good 2.4 and 5.8 AP
coverage over an area with no interference between bands whilst saving on
tower rental. The dishes are good to provide redundancy for backhaul but
interference is to high to use both at the same time. I would really like to
see if some band pass filters would help with this however I only seem to be
able to find them for 2.4GHz. Anyone know where they sell em? Has anyone
used dual-polarized dishes with N-Streme2?

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: 27 December 2005 22:00
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] dual band

I just recently learned about  Gabriel's Dual Pol 2ft parabolic (28.5 dbi) 
offering. Supports 5.2-5.8Ghz.
Its only about $360 from Tessco.

However, as far as Dual band antennas, they make em, but not sure whats best

to buy. We typically don't use them, because we use the different bands for 
different purposes, and therefore often different antenna characteristics 
are preferred for each of the bands in order to not unnecesarilly limit the 
ability of the spectrum range..

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] dual band


>
> They're not really "dual" they're "either/or".
>
> One panel to do BOTH would be awesome, but for now nothing of the sort 
> exists, save for the dual-pol dishes for use with orthogon,
> etc...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Aubrey Wells
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:30 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] dual band
>
> highest gain i've seen on dual-band is the superpass ones.
>
> http://www.superpass.com/DUAL-GJ.html
>
> ---
> Aubrey Wells
> AirInfinite
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> o: (404) 601.1407
> f: (404) 601.1408
> c: (770) 356.9767
>
>
>
> robert maier wrote:
>
>> I've only heard of dual polorized, but could be wrong,  we order those
>> from Maxrad
>>
>> */[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a dual band high gain panel antenna (ie: 2.4ghz
>> and 5ghz 19db+)
>> - does such a beast exist?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>> --
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>> > om/cybergivingweek2005/>
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005
 

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