[WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[MDK]

It's 2:30 AM...

I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all, 
weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head, 
maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 
mph.   There's no snow on the ground.

I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one of 
those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next 
thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just 
crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but I 
did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is 
connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few 
miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. 
Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.

The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the 
ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much 
damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx 
board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...

Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday, 
but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2 
other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...

I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used 
the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and 
everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. 
And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board, 
licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's 
up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the 
afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to do 
that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd be 
there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new 
board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.

So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... 
fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's 
after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive 
over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text 
message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.

25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts 
and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back 
up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I 
pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I just 
put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the 
hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab a 
config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a 
few weeks old.

I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up 
the mountain.

Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.

Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I 
drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 min 
round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the 
mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.

Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.   I 
see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it 
in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not working. 
log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.

Put old RB14 back in, change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios 
detect, data flowing to customers.

Drive home.   Try to thaw out.   The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts 
like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly 
noticed one of the ap radios has no clients.   Odd.   Look at config, looks 
ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate.   As they slowly hop on, I'm 
sitting there wondering why this... and just then,  PM suddenly starts 
popping up red.Sure enough.   System locked.

Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot. 
(Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site).System boots and runs and 
...   No link to the XR5.Try new pigtail.Dead.How strange.   It 
worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board it was 
installed and working in all this time.

As I'm sitting and watching while sitting in the van, trying to stop 
shivering with the heat on full blast, It locks up again.  I reboot. 
Everything comes up, I had put the old XR5 in, and everything starts 
working - apparently it wasn't the pigtail, just the replacement XR5 that 
had no output.   Waited 15 min, still runni

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Philip Dorr]

maybe none of the parts are bad (except the original mini-itx board)
and it is just getting too cold out for them to function properly?

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:49 AM, MDK  wrote:
> It's 2:30 AM...
>
> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head,
> maybe.    Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>
> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one of
> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but I
> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> connected.    Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few
> miles outside of town.    It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>
> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx
> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>
> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>
> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used
> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> everything went off just fine.     But, it's now done this several times.
> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board,
> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's
> up there.    Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to do
> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd be
> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>
> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive
> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> message...  Site's down.    ARRRGGH.
>
> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.    Go home, pull out the parts
> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back
> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I just
> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the
> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab a
> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a
> few weeks old.
>
> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up
> the mountain.
>
> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.    Power comes on, but no beep.
>
> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I
> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 min
> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly.     Haul it back up the
> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.
>
> Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.   I
> see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it
> in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not working.
> log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.
>
> Put old RB14 back in, change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios
> detect, data flowing to customers.
>
> Drive home.   Try to thaw out.   The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts
> like a knife through you.    Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly
> noticed one of the ap radios has no clients.   Odd.   Look at config, looks
> ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate.   As they slowly hop on, I'm
> sitting there wondering why this... and just then,  PM suddenly starts
> popping up red.    Sure enough.   System locked.
>
> Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot.
> (Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site).    System boots and runs and
> ...   No link to the XR5.    Try new pigtail.    Dead.    How strange.   It
> worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board it was
> installed and working in all this time.
>
> As I'm sitting and watching while sitting in t

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Scott Reed]

Power supply could also be the culprit. 
Power connections that moved with the cold.  Re-seat every cable.

Philip Dorr wrote:
> maybe none of the parts are bad (except the original mini-itx board)and it is 
> just getting too cold out for them to function properly?
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:49 AM, MDK  wrote:> It's 
> 2:30 AM...>> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   
> After all,> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In 
> their head,> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's 
> more like 25> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.>> I don't make a habit of 
> staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one of> those "let's just have 
> some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next> thing I knew, it was 
> nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just> crawled into bed.   At 
> 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but I> did get up.  Looked at 
> my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is> connected.Now, I have 
> had some issues with one of the dist points a few> miles outside of town.
> It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.> Each time, I thought I had 
> found the problem and not worried about it.>> The first time for instance, it 
> was e
 xtremely dense fog, and I found the> ventilation fan running in the box.   
Thinking I had sucked in too much> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The 
locked up system is a mini-itx> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...>> 
Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,> but 
now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2> other 
times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...>> I quick 
yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used> the step 
ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and> everything went off 
just fine. But, it's now done this several times.> And that's not good or 
right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board,> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 
spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's> up there.Anyway, morning 
zips by, and I have an appointment in the> afternoon to switch a family 
friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to do> that and she
 's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd be> there at 
2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new> board so I 
could change in in daylight tomorrow.>> So, I go to the workshop and do some 
stuff I've been putting off and ...> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to 
finish.   When I wake up, it's> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... 
Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive> over to house, start the project.   30 min 
later, my phone beeps.   Text> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.>> 25 minute 
drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts> and start to 
assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back> up, restart.   
This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I> pull everything 
out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I just> put 60 customers 
down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the> hillside... and 
everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab a> 
 config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a> 
few weeks old.>> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.> 
So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up> 
the mountain.>> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no 
beep.>> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture 
I> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 
min> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up 
the> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.>> 
Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.   I> 
see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it> 
in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not working.> 
log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.>> Put old RB14 back in, 
change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios> detect, da
 ta flowing to customers.>> Drive home.   Try to thaw out.   The wind up there 
is 25 mph and it cuts> like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch 
everything, suddenly> noticed one of the ap radios has no clients.   Odd.   
Look at config, looks> ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate.   As they 
slowly hop on, I'm> sitting there wondering why this... and just then,  PM 
suddenly starts> popping up red.Sure enough.   System locked.>> Drive up 
the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot.> (Spare XR5, 
was used for 2 weeks in temp site).System boots and runs and> ...   No link 
to the XR5.Try new pigtail.Dead.How strange.   It> worked fine just 
9 days 

Re: [WISPA] www.google.com

[os10rules]

Is this something specific to the RB450/450G? I have the RB750 and I'm running 
4.3 and having no issues.

I'm using the RB750 on a 15Mbps/2Mbps cable connection with numerous pcq queues 
doing prioritization (no limiting) on outbound (queuing with no prioritization 
on the inbound) and I'm impressed with how low the CPU usage is. It spiked once 
to 22% but since that one time it's not gone over 12%. I've been using it a few 
weeks.

Greg
On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> I'm quite confident it's MT.  Introduced in 4.0.
> 
> On 12/6/09, RickG  wrote:
>> Ya, I think I mentioned it there already. I figured it may not be a Mikrotik
>> problem so wanted to post here too. -RickG
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Josh Luthman
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am having the same issue.  We have a thread on Butch's MT list but
>>> it is just discussion.
>>> 
>>> On 12/6/09, RickG  wrote:
 OK, 3 times in the past week that I've noticed I could not get to
 www.google.com via the web, nor ping it, and DNS could not resolve it. I
 COULD ping and resolve google.com. I tried changing my DNS to OpenDNS
>>> and
 Public DNS (4.2.2.1) but had the same results. M firewall is an RB450G
 running  4.3. Is anyone out there having this issue?
 -RickG
 
 
 
>>> 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[can...@believewireless.net]

That was our experience with Mini-ITX boards as well.  One thing we
were able to tell was that they didn't like sudden changes in
temperature.  It didn't have to be outside the temperature tolerances
of the board, but even going from 80 to 60 over a couple hours would
cause it to lock up.

In the end, we pulled all the Mini-ITX boards.  We switched to
routerboards and everything has been solid.



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Re: [WISPA] www.google.com

[can...@believewireless.net]

It's not specific to any board, as it happens on X86 and RB1000s as
well.  However, it only happens to customers using Mikrotik as their
DNS server.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:46 AM,   wrote:
> Is this something specific to the RB450/450G? I have the RB750 and I'm 
> running 4.3 and having no issues.
>
> I'm using the RB750 on a 15Mbps/2Mbps cable connection with numerous pcq 
> queues doing prioritization (no limiting) on outbound (queuing with no 
> prioritization on the inbound) and I'm impressed with how low the CPU usage 
> is. It spiked once to 22% but since that one time it's not gone over 12%. 
> I've been using it a few weeks.
>
> Greg
> On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>> I'm quite confident it's MT.  Introduced in 4.0.
>>
>> On 12/6/09, RickG  wrote:
>>> Ya, I think I mentioned it there already. I figured it may not be a Mikrotik
>>> problem so wanted to post here too. -RickG
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I am having the same issue.  We have a thread on Butch's MT list but
 it is just discussion.

 On 12/6/09, RickG  wrote:
> OK, 3 times in the past week that I've noticed I could not get to
> www.google.com via the web, nor ping it, and DNS could not resolve it. I
> COULD ping and resolve google.com. I tried changing my DNS to OpenDNS
 and
> Public DNS (4.2.2.1) but had the same results. M firewall is an RB450G
> running  4.3. Is anyone out there having this issue?
> -RickG
>
>
>
 
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 --
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
 --- Albert Einstein



 
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>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> 
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[os10rules]

Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem of 
the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend their 
money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to buy 
insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance.

On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed and 
stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The problem now 
is either people are profiting from the "waste" or they're too immoral to care 
or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private industry itself 
massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's 
still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and 
trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare reform heads 
will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't think anyone is 
talking about that.

Greg

On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote:

> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We
> need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not
> listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government
> running health care or even an "option". This includes many low wage earners
> I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the
> bill but where are the proponents at?
> 
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem  wrote:
> 
>> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>> program will do.
>> 
>> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is
>> gets
>> me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this:
>> 
>> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>> enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
>> averaging
>> a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>> competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great
>> $75 billion/year?
>> 
>> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>> care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>> How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>> enterprises in any industry?
>> 
>> Paul C Diem
>> pcd...@foxvalley.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> 
>> 
>> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty
>> and
>> not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles.
>> I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>> health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not
>> to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>> there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>> had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live &
>> kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>> any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>> it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>> mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then
>> our
>> health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
>> -RickG
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
>> 
>>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.
>>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or
>>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private
>>> services."
>>> 
>>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I
>>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
>>> poor-house.
>>> 
>>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
>>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to
>>> the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on
>>> someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to
>>> a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the
>>> financial burden of going to the
>>> hospital.
>>> 
>>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever
>>> those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy
>>> extra insurance
>>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands
>> on
>>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
>>> 
>>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
>>> vehicl

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Chuck Hogg]

It's snowing here!

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?  

I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
usually
buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
much
worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. 

Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?

And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my
hands at
the same time.

So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?

Thanks.

Bob-













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Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run

[3-dB Networks]

I once had a Tranzeo radio running at near 500ft of cable, at 100 Base full,
with no problems.  Granted it was Belden 7919 Shielded Cable... it was a
backhaul for my house and didn't have issue with the cable (getting the
radio to deal with the noise floor was a separate issue :-)

FWIW... I've run many radios to 350ft on 802.3af power and 24v PoE with no
issues.  I of course try to avoid it, but I often wonder if those
recommendations were for CAT5 cable, and 5e allows you to stretch a little
bit further...

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run

Voltage won't be a problem.  http://www.wisp-router.com/poecalculator.php

At 320 feet you should be OK with the Ethernet timing.  I have done 340 with
48v Ceragon (that's AirMux FYI) gear.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Confusing info on the net so I guess I better ask.
>
>
>
> I need to run a Cat5 line near 320 feet.  I know that over 300 could cause
> issues but if I put my PoE switch about 20 or 30 feet in and then run the
> rest of the way, will we be golden or will we risk attenuation?  Seems to
> be
> confusion on the net over use of switch curing the attenuation.
> Personally
> I think the switch will make it all cool, just want to make sure.
>
>
>
> I use outdoor, solid core, shielded, flooded cable with static drain.
> Running it to a Mikrotik 600a using 4 R52N cards.
>
>
>
> Another thought, running 48v though 290 feet of solid core Cat5  Do ya
> think I'll have enough juice the end of the run to power up that 600a and
> the 4 R52N's?
>
>
>
>  Just so ya know.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
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>
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>




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Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run

[os10rules]

The important specs are twists per foot and capacitance per foot with the 
capacitance being the most important. The lower the capacitance per foot the 
lower the attenuation and the lower the crosstalk (because there is capacitive 
interaction with neighboring pairs as well). If you can find a cable with lower 
capacitance per foot you can go further.

Greg

On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:37 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> I once had a Tranzeo radio running at near 500ft of cable, at 100 Base full,
> with no problems.  Granted it was Belden 7919 Shielded Cable... it was a
> backhaul for my house and didn't have issue with the cable (getting the
> radio to deal with the noise floor was a separate issue :-)
> 
> FWIW... I've run many radios to 350ft on 802.3af power and 24v PoE with no
> issues.  I of course try to avoid it, but I often wonder if those
> recommendations were for CAT5 cable, and 5e allows you to stretch a little
> bit further...
> 
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:39 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Long Cat5 Run
> 
> Voltage won't be a problem.  http://www.wisp-router.com/poecalculator.php
> 
> At 320 feet you should be OK with the Ethernet timing.  I have done 340 with
> 48v Ceragon (that's AirMux FYI) gear.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:31 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> 
>> Confusing info on the net so I guess I better ask.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I need to run a Cat5 line near 320 feet.  I know that over 300 could cause
>> issues but if I put my PoE switch about 20 or 30 feet in and then run the
>> rest of the way, will we be golden or will we risk attenuation?  Seems to
>> be
>> confusion on the net over use of switch curing the attenuation.
>> Personally
>> I think the switch will make it all cool, just want to make sure.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I use outdoor, solid core, shielded, flooded cable with static drain.
>> Running it to a Mikrotik 600a using 4 R52N cards.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Another thought, running 48v though 290 feet of solid core Cat5  Do ya
>> think I'll have enough juice the end of the run to power up that 600a and
>> the 4 R52N's?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Just so ya know.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> 
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[Scottie Arnett]

I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. 
Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children 
that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. 
They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was 
charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not 
have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. 
There were no complications in either case.

I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 
1 Tylenol.

So something smells awful fishy here.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Brad Belton" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600

>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country to
>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>
>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided
>will go down.  
>
>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>
>Best,
>
>
>Brad
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>program will do.
>
>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets
>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this:
>
>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging
>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great
>$75 billion/year?
>
>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>enterprises in any industry?
>
>Paul C Diem
>pcd...@foxvalley.net 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>
>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and
>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles.
>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not
>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live &
>kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our
>health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
>-RickG
>
>
>On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
>
>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care 
>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  
>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or 
>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private 
>> services."
>>
>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I 
>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the 
>> poor-house.
>>
>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients 
>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to 
>> the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on 
>> someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to 
>> a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the 
>> financial burden of going to the
>> hospital.
>>
>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever 
>> those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy 
>> extra insurance
>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on
>> top of the

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[eje]

80+ and sunny here ;) 
To bad it will not last long. Can see why Gino lives here in the Carribbean. 
Talk about Gino should past by him shortly ;) 

(Alright so I'm on vacation on a Disney Cruise to the eastern Carribbean)

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Chuck Hogg" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:33:20 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's snowing here!

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?  

I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
usually
buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
much
worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. 

Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?

And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my
hands at
the same time.

So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?

Thanks.

Bob-













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[WISPA] Interference Perhaps

[Nick Huanca]

Hi,

We are running into some interference type issues in a few markets with
900MHz. We've put in place some 10 and 20 MHz bandpass to filter cell and
paging. The interference seems to be still bothering our AP. In these
markets we have some antiquated MikroTik equipment running SR9 cards. We
believe this interference to be in-band but have yet to locate the source.

Anyone have any tips/tricks for either avoiding this interference or
locating its source? If we do locate it, any tips on how to get them to play
nice?

-- 
Nick Huanca



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Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[eje]

I would say the problems is lawyers. When a skilled good doctor that is 
nationally renowned as a OB can't make a living as a OB alone yet he is always 
busy but end up doing plastic surgery on the side because his malpractice 
insurance is so high (yet never had to use it) but he has to carry it. On the 
prices I seen the clear opposite. The insurance companies have "allowed" prices 
what the doctors can charge. If you don't have insurance you can end up paying 
full premiums which sometimes can be twice as much as health insurance allowed 
fees. 


/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
Date: Mon,  7 Dec 2009 08:26:22 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. 
Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children 
that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. 
They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was 
charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not 
have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. 
There were no complications in either case.

I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 
1 Tylenol.

So something smells awful fishy here.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Brad Belton" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600

>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country to
>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>
>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided
>will go down.  
>
>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>
>Best,
>
>
>Brad
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>program will do.
>
>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets
>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this:
>
>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging
>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great
>$75 billion/year?
>
>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>enterprises in any industry?
>
>Paul C Diem
>pcd...@foxvalley.net 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>
>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and
>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles.
>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not
>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live &
>kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our
>health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
>-RickG
>
>
>On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
>
>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care 
>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  
>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or 
>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private 
>> services."
>>
>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I 
>> am tired of b

Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[Brad Belton]

That's correct and you're blaming the doctor?  Your example gives you some
idea the amount of waste our current system is saddled with.  

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high
insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that
have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance,
Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1
with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery.
Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was
around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.

I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10
for 1 Tylenol.

So something smells awful fishy here.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Brad Belton" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600

>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country
to
>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>
>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided
>will go down.  
>
>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>
>Best,
>
>
>Brad
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>program will do.
>
>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is
gets
>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this:
>
>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
averaging
>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great
>$75 billion/year?
>
>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>enterprises in any industry?
>
>Paul C Diem
>pcd...@foxvalley.net 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>
>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty
and
>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles.
>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not
>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live &
>kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then
our
>health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
>-RickG
>
>
>On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
>
>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care 
>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  
>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or 
>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private 
>> services."
>>
>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I 
>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the 
>> poor-house.
>>
>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients 
>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to 
>> the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on 
>> someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to 
>> a b

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Mike Hammett]

In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get 
fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that 
mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum 
liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the 
national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public 
healthcare because I don't live there.

I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but 
health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any 
business.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Brad Belton" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument.
> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need 
> it.
> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not 
> buying
> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
>
> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and 
> ultimately
> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are 
> taking
> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from
> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.
>
> Big difference.
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Spott
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system.
> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you want
> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the
> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services."
>
> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am
> tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
> poor-house.
>
> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes
> in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital
> because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you 
> just
> extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to
> let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to 
> the
> hospital.
>
> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever those 
> may
> be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra 
> insurance
> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on
> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
>
> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay that 
> extra
> tax" to drive your car?
>
> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
>
> ryan
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that started
>> WedMD years back.  He was starting another company that worked with the
>> insurance flow of paper work.  He said several times that 70% to 80% of
> the
>> insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for the
>> doctors services.
>>
>>My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If
>> you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to 
>> go
>> to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>> Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates (all
>> types
>> of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a great deal
>> of
>> sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses...
>>
>> The original point was,
>>   Health Care Insurance is a necessity.
>>   Health Care Insurance should be a vital benefit, provided by an 
>> Employer
>> whenever possible.
>>   Health Care Insurance is expensive
>>
>>   So, How do you set up this benefit so that it makes sense for all
>> (Employer and Employee).
>>
>>   There are a number of very effective ways to do this, rather than the
>> drastic options to convert Employees to Contractors...
>>
>>   BTW, if you Talk to you Accountant, they will also tell you that simply
>> paying someone on a 1099 as a Contractor, does not make them a contract
>> employee There are other 'litmus' tes

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Paul C Diem]

"It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with
new uniforms."

But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new
uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams,
including theirs, to suddenly start performing well.

Paul C Diem
pcd...@foxvalley.net 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem
of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend
their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to
buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance.

On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed
and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The
problem now is either people are profiting from the "waste" or they're too
immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private
industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same
problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy
football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the
healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I
don't think anyone is talking about that.

Greg

On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote:

> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are 
> viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either 
> they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants 
> the government running health care or even an "option". This includes 
> many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the 
> people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at?
> 
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem  
> wrote:
> 
>> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government 
>> funded program will do.
>> 
>> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because 
>> is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I 
>> have about this:
>> 
>> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the 
>> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't 
>> free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A 
>> is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise 
>> generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and 
>> still make a great $75 billion/year?
>> 
>> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored 
>> health care insurance program is to create competition in the 
>> insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered 
>> true competition to free enterprises in any industry?
>> 
>> Paul C Diem
>> pcd...@foxvalley.net
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>> On Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> 
>> 
>> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of 
>> liberty and not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have 
>> insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high 
>> which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have 
>> been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital 
>> because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid 
>> several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely 
>> the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live & kickin 
>> for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want 
>> any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about 
>> is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old 
>> friend of mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to 
>> be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until 
>> the waste is corrected. -RickG
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care 
>>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private 
>>> healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in 
>>> huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to 
>>> visit the private services."
>>> 
>>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I 
>>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in 
>>> the poor-house.
>>> 
>>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients 
>>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them 
>>> to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down 
>>> on som

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

Yeah, I woke up to snow.  Now I'm glad I worked till midnight last night, at
least I didn't have snow to deal with.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's snowing here!

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?  

I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
usually
buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
much
worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. 

Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?

And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my
hands at
the same time.

So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?

Thanks.

Bob-













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Re: [WISPA] Interference Perhaps

[Leon D. Zetekoff]

Nick Huanca wrote:

We are running into some interference type issues in a few markets with
900MHz. We've put in place some 10 and 20 MHz bandpass to filter cell and
paging. The interference seems to be still bothering our AP. In these
markets we have some antiquated MikroTik equipment running SR9 cards. We
believe this interference to be in-band but have yet to locate the source.

Anyone have any tips/tricks for either avoiding this interference or
locating its source? If we do locate it, any tips on how to get them to play
nice

Hi Nick...what exactly are you experiencing? Please describe your setups.

Thanks leon
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date: 12/07/09 
02:33:00



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Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[os10rules]

Just taking issue with the "I was charged $8 for two Tylenol", "I was charged 
$10 for a Tylenol". A beer in a bar (with far less overhead) is $5.

Isn't the fact that if one doesn't have insurance the hospitals work with you 
at the very least go to show that the folks providing us healthcare aren't the 
cold hearted money grabbing parasites some pushing for healthcare reform (I 
mean people I know and people I hear on TV, not pointing fingers at anyone here 
on the list) try to claim they are? I know of examples where patients couldn't 
afford the meds so the pharmaceutical company donated them, or a friend (who's 
a missionary in the jungle and not much money) who's daughter ran up a $500,000 
bill being on a special life support device which the company itself helped pay 
for and the rest was covered by grants. Our system is not as "broken" as some 
want to make it out to be. Many of the uninsured are uninsured by choice or 
illegals. I live in Venezuela and I am covered by their free system there 
(though if it matters and one has the money people go to the paid clinics) BUT 
I'M NOT THERE ILLEGALLY.

Greg

On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote:

> I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. 
> Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children 
> that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. 
> They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was 
> charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not 
> have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. 
> There were no complications in either case.
> 
> I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 
> for 1 Tylenol.
> 
> So something smells awful fishy here.
> 
> Scottie
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
> 
>> The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>> insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country to
>> all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>> prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>> seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>> 
>> Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>> discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>> payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided
>> will go down.  
>> 
>> Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> 
>> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>> program will do.
>> 
>> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets
>> me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this:
>> 
>> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>> enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging
>> a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>> competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great
>> $75 billion/year?
>> 
>> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>> care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>> How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>> enterprises in any industry?
>> 
>> Paul C Diem
>> pcd...@foxvalley.net 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> 
>> 
>> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and
>> not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles.
>> I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>> health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not
>> to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>> there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>> had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live &
>> kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>> any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>> it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>> mine used 

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Gino Villarini]

Have a blast!!! Is the cruise stopping in  San Juan?

Sent from my Motorola Startac...


On Dec 7, 2009, at 10:30 AM, "e...@wisp-router.com"  wrote:

> 80+ and sunny here ;)
> To bad it will not last long. Can see why Gino lives here in the  
> Carribbean. Talk about Gino should past by him shortly ;)
>
> (Alright so I'm on vacation on a Disney Cruise to the eastern  
> Carribbean)
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:33:20
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's snowing here!
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower  
> and
> my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is  
> pretty
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my
> hands at
> the same time.
>
> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- 
> -
> 
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Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

We'll save some snow for you.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of e...@wisp-router.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

80+ and sunny here ;) 
To bad it will not last long. Can see why Gino lives here in the Carribbean.
Talk about Gino should past by him shortly ;) 

(Alright so I'm on vacation on a Disney Cruise to the eastern Carribbean)

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Chuck Hogg" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:33:20 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's snowing here!

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?  

I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
usually
buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
much
worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. 

Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?

And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my
hands at
the same time.

So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?

Thanks.

Bob-













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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Brad Belton]

I was clear when I said "need" insurance.  If you don't have a car or drive
the car on the public roadway the government doesn't fine you or jail you
for not having auto insurance.  

The government isn't forcing you to have a car and buy their auto insurance
at the price and under the terms they dictate.  That is exactly what is
being proposed with this government run health care system.

Again, big difference.  


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get 
fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that 
mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum 
liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the 
national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public 
healthcare because I don't live there.

I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but 
health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any 
business.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Brad Belton" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument.
> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need 
> it.
> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not 
> buying
> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
>
> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and 
> ultimately
> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are 
> taking
> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something from
> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.
>
> Big difference.
>
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Spott
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system.
> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you want
> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the
> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services."
>
> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am
> tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
> poor-house.
>
> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes
> in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital
> because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you 
> just
> extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to
> let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to 
> the
> hospital.
>
> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever those 
> may
> be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra 
> insurance
> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on
> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
>
> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay that 
> extra
> tax" to drive your car?
>
> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
>
> ryan
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>>I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that started
>> WedMD years back.  He was starting another company that worked with the
>> insurance flow of paper work.  He said several times that 70% to 80% of
> the
>> insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for the
>> doctors services.
>>
>>My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If
>> you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to 
>> go
>> to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>> Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates (all
>> types
>> of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a great deal
>> of
>> sense to me, but I have heard all kinds of excuses...
>>
>> T

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Robert West]

Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a
nightmare?  

At least you got a new hat.  That's the bright side out of all this, I say.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

It's 2:30 AM...

I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all, 
weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head, 
maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 
mph.   There's no snow on the ground.

I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one of

those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next 
thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just 
crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but I

did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is 
connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few 
miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. 
Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.

The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the 
ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much 
damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx 
board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...

Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday, 
but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2 
other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...

I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used 
the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and 
everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. 
And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board, 
licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's 
up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the 
afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to do

that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd be

there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new 
board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.

So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... 
fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's 
after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive 
over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text 
message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.

25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts 
and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back 
up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I 
pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I just

put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the 
hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab a

config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a 
few weeks old.

I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up

the mountain.

Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.

Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I 
drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 min

round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the 
mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.

Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.   I

see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it

in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not working.

log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.

Put old RB14 back in, change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios 
detect, data flowing to customers.

Drive home.   Try to thaw out.   The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts 
like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything, suddenly

noticed one of the ap radios has no clients.   Odd.   Look at config, looks 
ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate.   As they slowly hop on, I'm 
sitting there wondering why this... and just then,  PM suddenly starts 
popping up red.Sure enough.   System locked.

Drive up the mountain, put in second spare radio in place of XR5 and boot. 
(Spare XR5, was used for 2 weeks in temp site).System boots and runs and

...   No link to the XR5.Try new pigtail.Dead.How strange.   It 
worked fine just 9 days ago, and it's been stored in the ALIX board 

Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[Scottie Arnett]

"That's correct and you're blaming the doctor?"

Yes, or the hospital. Many insurance companies may have a "set" rate they will 
pay, but many do not. In this instance, the doctor/hospital knew that Friend 1 
had insurance and Friend 2 did not. Why the cost disparity? The doctor/hospital 
knew they could sock it to the insurance company. Insurance company pays more 
out, now what? Everyone's premiums go up to fund the doctor/hospital charging 
the outrageous prices to people that have insurance.

Just an FYI, they have to treat you in life threatening situations. I have seen 
illegal aliens get treated in emergency rooms and then "sent" back across the 
border(if the law enforcement was involved, such as car wreck,etc...) and no 
one pays the bill, except the US citizens being charged more for health care. 
You can also make any attempt to pay on a doctor/hospital bill and their is 
nothing they can do about it. Even if it's $25 - $100/mth. At least that is the 
way it is around here. Both of these cause the price of health care to rise 
which leads to higher insurance.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Brad Belton" 
Date:  Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:44:29 -0600

>That's correct and you're blaming the doctor?  Your example gives you some
>idea the amount of waste our current system is saddled with.  
>
>Best,
>
>
>Brad
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
>Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
>
>I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high
>insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that
>have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance,
>Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1
>with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery.
>Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was
>around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.
>
>I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10
>for 1 Tylenol.
>
>So something smells awful fishy here.
>
>Scottie
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Brad Belton" 
>Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
>
>>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country
>to
>>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>>
>>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided
>>will go down.  
>>
>>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>>program will do.
>>
>>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is
>gets
>>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this:
>>
>>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
>averaging
>>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great
>>$75 billion/year?
>>
>>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>>enterprises in any industry?
>>
>>Paul C Diem
>>pcd...@foxvalley.net 
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of RickG
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>
>>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty
>and
>>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles.
>>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not
>>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>>there, I still paid several thousand doll

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[os10rules]

I believe the proposed changes have only dealt with the insurance side 
(government provided and more rules for the private sector insurance 
providers). On the healthcare provider (doctors, hospitals) side I believe 
they've only talked about rules. Maybe new government clinics that provide 
healthcare at discounted rates would help drive down costs in the private 
sector. What works well in Venezuela is the private and state run systems are 
separate. It doesn't matter how bad the state run system gets because you are 
free to go to the paid clinics, which don't charge exorbitant rates because it 
would drive everyone to the public system. What I worry about happening here is 
we lose a completely free and unfettered option. If the government really can 
do it better and cheaper then the private sector will follow suit. If the 
government needs to stifle the private sector and strong arm people into their 
plan it only shows they can't compete.

Greg

On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Paul C Diem wrote:

> "It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem with
> new uniforms."
> 
> But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy new
> uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all the teams,
> including theirs, to suddenly start performing well.
> 
> Paul C Diem
> pcd...@foxvalley.net 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> 
> 
> Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem
> of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend
> their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to
> buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance.
> 
> On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed
> and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The
> problem now is either people are profiting from the "waste" or they're too
> immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private
> industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same
> problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy
> football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the
> healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I
> don't think anyone is talking about that.
> 
> Greg
> 
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote:
> 
>> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are 
>> viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either 
>> they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants 
>> the government running health care or even an "option". This includes 
>> many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the 
>> people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at?
>> 
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government 
>>> funded program will do.
>>> 
>>> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because 
>>> is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I 
>>> have about this:
>>> 
>>> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the 
>>> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't 
>>> free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A 
>>> is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise 
>>> generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and 
>>> still make a great $75 billion/year?
>>> 
>>> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored 
>>> health care insurance program is to create competition in the 
>>> insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered 
>>> true competition to free enterprises in any industry?
>>> 
>>> Paul C Diem
>>> pcd...@foxvalley.net
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of 
>>> liberty and not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have 
>>> insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high 
>>> which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have 
>>> been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital 
>>> because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid 
>>> several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely 
>>> the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live & kickin 
>>> for it. Just a lot less savings

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Blake Bowers]

In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
if you own/operate a vehicle.

There are LOTS of people out there that don't.

In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
am happy with that.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get
> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum
> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at the
> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
> healthcare because I don't live there.
>
> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to any
> business.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument.
>> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need
>> it.
>> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
>> buying
>> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
>>
>> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
>> ultimately
>> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
>> taking
>> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something 
>> from
>> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.
>>
>> Big difference.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Ryan Spott
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
>> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care 
>> system.
>> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you want
>> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the
>> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services."
>>
>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am
>> tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
>> poor-house.
>>
>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients 
>> (sometimes
>> in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital
>> because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you
>> just
>> extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you 
>> to
>> let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to
>> the
>> hospital.
>>
>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever those
>> may
>> be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra
>> insurance
>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands 
>> on
>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
>>
>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
>> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay that
>> extra
>> tax" to drive your car?
>>
>> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
>>
>> ryan
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that 
>>> started
>>> WedMD years back.  He was starting another company that worked with the
>>> insurance flow of paper work.  He said several times that 70% to 80% of
>> the
>>> insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for the
>>> doctors services.
>>>
>>>My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. 
>>> If
>>> you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to
>>> go
>>> to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:22 AM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>>
>>> Yes, we in South Florida have some of the highest insurance rates (all
>>> types
>>> of insurance). There are many reasons, non of them that make a g

Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[Blake Bowers]

Agreed about the lawyers, that is why it is so difficult to find
an OB now.

But, every single hospital, doctors office, lab, and pretty much
any other health care provider offers discounts for cash pay
customers.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance


>I would say the problems is lawyers. When a skilled good doctor that is 
>nationally renowned as a OB can't make a living as a OB alone yet he is 
>always busy but end up doing plastic surgery on the side because his 
>malpractice insurance is so high (yet never had to use it) but he has to 
>carry it. On the prices I seen the clear opposite. The insurance companies 
>have "allowed" prices what the doctors can charge. If you don't have 
>insurance you can end up paying full premiums which sometimes can be twice 
>as much as health insurance allowed fees.
>
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Scottie Arnett" 
> Date: Mon,  7 Dec 2009 08:26:22
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
>
> I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high 
> insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that 
> have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, 
> Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 
> 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. 
> Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost 
> was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.
>
> I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged 
> $10 for 1 Tylenol.
>
> So something smells awful fishy here.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
>
>>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country 
>>to
>>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>>
>>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services 
>>provided
>>will go down.
>>
>>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>>program will do.
>>
>>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is 
>>gets
>>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about 
>>this:
>>
>>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is 
>>averaging
>>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a 
>>great
>>$75 billion/year?
>>
>>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>>enterprises in any industry?
>>
>>Paul C Diem
>>pcd...@foxvalley.net
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of RickG
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>
>>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty 
>>and
>>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my 
>>vehicles.
>>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged 
>>not
>>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>>there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>>had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live 
>>&
>>kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>>any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>>it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a 

Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[Blake Bowers]

No insurance was probably required to put some down, and then paid the 
balance
quickly.

Doctors and hospitals love that - it saves them a tremendous amount of money
compared to the discounts that they have to give insurance, billing, time 
waiting
for money, rebilling, giving the billing service a cut, etc.

They always discount that.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance


>I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high 
>insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that 
>have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, 
>Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 
>1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. 
>Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was 
>around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.
>
> I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged 
> $10 for 1 Tylenol.
>
> So something smells awful fishy here.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
>
>>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country 
>>to
>>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>>
>>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services 
>>provided
>>will go down.
>>
>>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>>program will do.
>>
>>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is 
>>gets
>>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about 
>>this:
>>
>>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is 
>>averaging
>>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a 
>>great
>>$75 billion/year?
>>
>>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>>enterprises in any industry?
>>
>>Paul C Diem
>>pcd...@foxvalley.net
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of RickG
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>
>>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty 
>>and
>>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my 
>>vehicles.
>>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged 
>>not
>>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>>there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>>had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live 
>>&
>>kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>>any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>>it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>>mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then 
>>our
>>health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
>>-RickG
>>
>>
>>On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
>>
>>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.
>>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or
>>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private
>>> services."
>>>
>>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I
>>> am ti

Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[Mike Hammett]

Insurance operations cost more because of the paperwork involved in claiming 
the insurance.  I doubt it's $25k different, but...


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Scottie Arnett" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

> I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high 
> insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that 
> have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, 
> Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 
> 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. 
> Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost 
> was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.
>
> I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged 
> $10 for 1 Tylenol.
>
> So something smells awful fishy here.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
>
>>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where
>>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire country 
>>to
>>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
>>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>>
>>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option will
>>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a single
>>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services 
>>provided
>>will go down.
>>
>>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>>program will do.
>>
>>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is 
>>gets
>>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about 
>>this:
>>
>>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is 
>>averaging
>>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a 
>>great
>>$75 billion/year?
>>
>>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
>>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry.
>>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
>>enterprises in any industry?
>>
>>Paul C Diem
>>pcd...@foxvalley.net
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>Behalf Of RickG
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>
>>I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty 
>>and
>>not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my 
>>vehicles.
>>I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
>>health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged 
>>not
>>to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
>>there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
>>had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live 
>>&
>>kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
>>any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
>>it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
>>mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then 
>>our
>>health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
>>-RickG
>>
>>
>>On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
>>
>>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.
>>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or
>>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private
>>> services."
>>>
>>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I
>>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
>>> poor-house.
>>>
>>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
>>> (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them t

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Paul C Diem]

"If the government really can do it better and cheaper then the private
sector will follow suit."

Government has a history showing they can't do anything better or cheaper
than the private sector. If the government can really run a better, cheaper,
more efficient health insurance program than the private sector WITHOUT
using tax dollars, then I'm all for it.

Paul C Diem
pcd...@foxvalley.net 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


I believe the proposed changes have only dealt with the insurance side
(government provided and more rules for the private sector insurance
providers). On the healthcare provider (doctors, hospitals) side I believe
they've only talked about rules. Maybe new government clinics that provide
healthcare at discounted rates would help drive down costs in the private
sector. What works well in Venezuela is the private and state run systems
are separate. It doesn't matter how bad the state run system gets because
you are free to go to the paid clinics, which don't charge exorbitant rates
because it would drive everyone to the public system. What I worry about
happening here is we lose a completely free and unfettered option. If the
government really can do it better and cheaper then the private sector will
follow suit. If the government needs to stifle the private sector and strong
arm people into their plan it only shows they can't compete.

Greg

On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Paul C Diem wrote:

> "It's like taking a crappy football team and trying to fix the problem 
> with new uniforms."
> 
> But the feds current answer is to create another football team, buy 
> new uniforms for their team with taxpayer dollars and then expect all 
> the teams, including theirs, to suddenly start performing well.
> 
> Paul C Diem
> pcd...@foxvalley.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:15 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> 
> 
> Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the 
> problem of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but 
> choose to spend their money elsewhere. It's going to require the 
> government forcing them to buy insurance or pay some tax that is used 
> to fund health insurance.
> 
> On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: 
> Greed and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any 
> enterprise. The problem now is either people are profiting from the 
> "waste" or they're too immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if 
> the government or private industry itself massively overhauls 
> healthcare there will still be the same problems if it's still the 
> same people involved. It's like taking a crappy football team and 
> trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the healthcare 
> reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I don't 
> think anyone is talking about that.
> 
> Greg
> 
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote:
> 
>> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are
>> viable. We need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either 
>> they are not listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants 
>> the government running health care or even an "option". This includes 
>> many low wage earners I am acquainted with. So, I know where the 
>> people are who are against the bill but where are the proponents at?
>> 
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government
>>> funded program will do.
>>> 
>>> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because
>>> is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I 
>>> have about this:
>>> 
>>> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>>> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't 
>>> free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A 
>>> is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise 
>>> generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and 
>>> still make a great $75 billion/year?
>>> 
>>> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored
>>> health care insurance program is to create competition in the 
>>> insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered 
>>> true competition to free enterprises in any industry?
>>> 
>>> Paul C Diem
>>> pcd...@foxvalley.net
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] heal

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Mike Hammett]

Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or 
St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to 
participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Blake Bowers" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

> In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
> if you own/operate a vehicle.
>
> There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
>
> In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
> period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
> am happy with that.
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>
>> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get
>> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
>> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum
>> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at 
>> the
>> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
>> healthcare because I don't live there.
>>
>> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
>> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to 
>> any
>> business.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed argument.
>>> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't need
>>> it.
>>> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
>>> buying
>>> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
>>>
>>> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
>>> ultimately
>>> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
>>> taking
>>> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
>>> from
>>> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.
>>>
>>> Big difference.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Ryan Spott
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
>>> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>>
>>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>>> system.
>>> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you 
>>> want
>>> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the
>>> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services."
>>>
>>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am
>>> tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
>>> poor-house.
>>>
>>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
>>> (sometimes
>>> in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital
>>> because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you
>>> just
>>> extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you
>>> to
>>> let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to
>>> the
>>> hospital.
>>>
>>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever those
>>> may
>>> be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra
>>> insurance
>>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands
>>> on
>>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
>>>
>>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
>>> vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay that
>>> extra
>>> tax" to drive your car?
>>>
>>> Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
>>>
>>> ryan
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello,

I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that
 started
 WedMD years back.  He was starting another company that worked with the
 insurance flow of paper work.  He said several times that 70% to 80% of
>>> the
 insurance premiums we pay go to the "middle" man and not to pay for the
 doctors services.

My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health 
 care
 system.  One of the fastest growing industries is privat

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Josh Luthman]

Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars?

I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars.

I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work.

But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle.  Or are you
including company owned vehicles?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or
> St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to
> participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Blake Bowers" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
> > In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
> > if you own/operate a vehicle.
> >
> > There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
> >
> > In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
> > period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
> > am happy with that.
> >
> >
> > Don't take your organs to heaven,
> > heaven knows we need them down here!
> > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Mike Hammett" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >
> >
> >> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get
> >> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
> >> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum
> >> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at
> >> the
> >> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
> >> healthcare because I don't live there.
> >>
> >> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
> >> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to
> >> any
> >> business.
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Mike Hammett
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> From: "Brad Belton" 
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>
> >>> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed
> argument.
> >>> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't
> need
> >>> it.
> >>> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
> >>> buying
> >>> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
> >>>
> >>> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
> >>> ultimately
> >>> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
> >>> taking
> >>> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
> >>> from
> >>> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.
> >>>
> >>> Big difference.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Brad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >>> Behalf Of Ryan Spott
> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
> >>> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>>
> >>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
> >>> system.
> >>> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you
> >>> want
> >>> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to
> the
> >>> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services."
> >>>
> >>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am
> >>> tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
> >>> poor-house.
> >>>
> >>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
> >>> (sometimes
> >>> in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital
> >>> because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you
> >>> just
> >>> extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you
> >>> to
> >>> let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going
> to
> >>> the
> >>> hospital.
> >>>
> >>> I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever
> those
> >>> may
> >>> be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra
> >>> insurance
> >>> riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands
> >>> on
> >>> top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
> >>>
> >>> Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
> >

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Ryan Spott]

It is amazing what a new hat can do for your outlook on outside work.  I was
having a &*(^ day in a bucket truck and my wife came by with a hat that had
been sitting on the dash of her truck with the warm defroster running on it.
I think just that hat recharged me for another 6 hours! :) That and the fact
that someone cares about you...

As for the very long night.. I had an issue where I was not getting BGP
updates from neighboring ISPs when working for a colo. It was an all nighter
and I finally had the wherewithal to call an alpha geek friend of mine. (his
license plate is his ARIN NIC).

After asking me a few questions to see if he could fix things quickly, he
told me to go take a nap and not call him until I had slept for at least 2
hours. I protested, but he assured me we could fix things faster and
more effectively if I had some small amount of sleep.

Well, 3 hours later, and well rested, I noticed an ACL blocking incoming
route announcements from my peers. I swear had I not taken that nap it would
have taken me 5 hours to notice!

ryan



On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a
> nightmare?
>
> At least you got a new hat.  That's the bright side out of all this, I say.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of MDK
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!
>
> It's 2:30 AM...
>
> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head,
> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>
> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one
> of
>
> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but
> I
>
> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few
> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>
> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx
> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>
> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>
> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used
> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times.
> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board,
> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's
> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to
> do
>
> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd
> be
>
> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>
> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive
> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
>
> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts
> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back
> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I
> just
>
> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the
> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab
> a
>
> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a
> few weeks old.
>
> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it
> up
>
> the mountain.
>
> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
>
> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I
> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20
> min
>
> round trip) with all the parts

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Blake Bowers]

Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE
to have insurance.

With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance.

You can bet, if I HAVE to, I will go to the doctor more often.  I recently
had the flu.  Swine most likely, normally the flu will have me down for 2-3 
days.  This
one, 3 WEEKS in bed.

I never went to the doctor, what was the point.  Sound financial decision. 
If
I had insurance, I would have been right there, just in case there was 
something
that might be able to be done.

It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they 
would
if paying out of pocket.  Seems like that is a dangerous progression.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


> Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or
> St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to
> participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Blake Bowers" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>> In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
>> if you own/operate a vehicle.
>>
>> There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
>>
>> In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
>> period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
>> am happy with that.
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>
>>> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get
>>> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
>>> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum
>>> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at
>>> the
>>> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
>>> healthcare because I don't live there.
>>>
>>> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
>>> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to
>>> any
>>> business.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>>
 The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed 
 argument.
 The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't 
 need
 it.
 The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
 buying
 auto insurance from them if you don't need it.

 Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
 ultimately
 put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
 taking
 your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
 from
 them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.

 Big difference.



 Brad


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Ryan Spott
 Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
 To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

 "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
 system.
 One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you
 want
 better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to 
 the
 newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services."

 That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am
 tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
 poor-house.

 I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
 (sometimes
 in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital
 because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you
 just
 extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you
 to
 let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going 
 to
 the
 hospital.

 I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical servic

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Ryan Spott]

If they use it more, would they have potentially expensive health issues
caught faster?

Again, from my experience in the ambulance, poo' people are more likely to
get REALLY sick because they have no preventative care.

Another example: My $10-my-wife-hates-the-job-he-does barber was telling me
he *was* on high blood pressure meds because his resting blood pressure was
130/90!. He stopped taking the meds because he got hives from them. I told
him he should go back in and get the proper meds as his blood pressure was
pretty darn high. He won't because he cannot afford to go in for a basic
office visit.. Great, now I get to transport his behind to the hospital when
he is gorked out from an aneurysm.

Since he has no basic health care he will probably not get anything besides
basic life supporting care at the hospital (or if he does, it will break
him) and I will either pay the cost of his bankruptcy (in higher interest on
my CCard) or I will pay for his long term care.

Great, another mouth to feed.

ryan

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Blake Bowers  wrote:

> Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE
> to have insurance.
>
> With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance.
>
> You can bet, if I HAVE to, I will go to the doctor more often.  I recently
> had the flu.  Swine most likely, normally the flu will have me down for 2-3
> days.  This
> one, 3 WEEKS in bed.
>
> I never went to the doctor, what was the point.  Sound financial decision.
> If
> I had insurance, I would have been right there, just in case there was
> something
> that might be able to be done.
>
> It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they
> would
> if paying out of pocket.  Seems like that is a dangerous progression.
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>
> > Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or
> > St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes
> to
> > participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From: "Blake Bowers" 
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >
> >> In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
> >> if you own/operate a vehicle.
> >>
> >> There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
> >>
> >> In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
> >> period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
> >> am happy with that.
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> >> heaven knows we need them down here!
> >> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>
> >>
> >>> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will
> get
> >>> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
> >>> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a
> minimum
> >>> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at
> >>> the
> >>> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
> >>> healthcare because I don't live there.
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
> >>> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to
> >>> any
> >>> business.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> Mike Hammett
> >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >>> http://www.ics-il.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> From: "Brad Belton" 
> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>>
>  The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed
>  argument.
>  The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't
>  need
>  it.
>  The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
>  buying
>  auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
> 
>  Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
>  ultimately
>  put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
>  taking
>  your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
>  from
>  them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.
> 
>  Big difference.
> 
> 
> 

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 09:53, Blake Bowers  wrote:

> Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE
> to have insurance.
>
> With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance.
>

But you also have to be healthy. Unless of course you're harboring latent
suicidal impulses...




> It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they
> would
> if paying out of pocket.  Seems like that is a dangerous progression.
>

I don't see this as a problem, really. It encourages people to be
responsible for their own health, and to get regular checkups and
preventative care.

(I'll keep my "we need single-payer" rant to myself, because this whole
thread is already so far off-topic for this list it ain't even funny.)

David Smith
MVN.net



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[WISPA] Let's connect on LinkedIn

[Paul Rice]

LinkedIn


Paul Rice requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
--

Dave,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Paul Rice

Accept invitation from Paul Rice
http://www.linkedin.com/e/vl4zrL3YW0mL8E2dh-xQe8EYBOGOR-/blk/I1640578026_2/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_cBYScz0UdPkMd3oNiiYQrj9ciSdncyYMdPwUdPoOcjALrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/

View invitation from Paul Rice
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--
(c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation




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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Mike Hammett]

The majority don't have more cars than people, but I don't know any in my 
area that has fewer cars than people, only the same or more.

Some people it's sports cars; some people they have a somewhat nice car they 
drive in summer and a beater for winter; some people it's recreational 
whether its for offroading, racing, RVs, etc.; some have a commuter car and 
a regular car; car or two at their summer home; etc.; etc.  Then there's 
vehicles they have due to any work or business they're involved in, but I 
didn't include those.

This tangent is a little too far out, so any further replies on this, please 
direct them to me offlist.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:33 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

> Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars?
>
> I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars.
>
> I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work.
>
> But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle.  Or are you
> including company owned vehicles?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:
>
>> Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or
>> St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes 
>> to
>> participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Blake Bowers" 
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>> > In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
>> > if you own/operate a vehicle.
>> >
>> > There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
>> >
>> > In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
>> > period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
>> > am happy with that.
>> >
>> >
>> > Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> > heaven knows we need them down here!
>> > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> > To: "WISPA General List" 
>> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> >
>> >
>> >> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will 
>> >> get
>> >> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
>> >> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a 
>> >> minimum
>> >> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at
>> >> the
>> >> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
>> >> healthcare because I don't live there.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
>> >> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to
>> >> any
>> >> business.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Mike Hammett
>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> >> http://www.ics-il.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> From: "Brad Belton" 
>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
>> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> >>
>> >>> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed
>> argument.
>> >>> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't
>> need
>> >>> it.
>> >>> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
>> >>> buying
>> >>> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
>> >>> ultimately
>> >>> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
>> >>> taking
>> >>> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
>> >>> from
>> >>> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see 
>> >>> fit.
>> >>>
>> >>> Big difference.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Brad
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -Original Message-
>> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> >>> Behalf Of Ryan Spott
>> >>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
>> >>> To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
>> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> >>>
>> >>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
>> >>> system.
>> >>> One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you
>> >>> want
>> >>> better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to
>> the
>> >>> newest hospitals you pay extra to visit t

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!

First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved 
shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.

I wear thick blue jeans.

Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the Carharts 
are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.

If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over 
the top of all of that.

I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. 
I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.

For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the 
fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and 
are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger 
on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts 
anyway.

Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't 
work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely 
tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are at. 
The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do 
amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.

Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an 
artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes, 
use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.

I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust 
anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has 
been sitting for a while.

Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when 
doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of 
the time).

For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got 
flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a 
hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker version 
of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull 
over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten older 
it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and 
windy.

Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not mission 
critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until 
things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The 
cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars 
don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out 
here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they 
understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow 
over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily 
managed with cold water and slow movement

Hope that helps,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
> my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands 
> at
> the same time.
>
> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Let's connect on LinkedIn

[Josh Luthman]

>There was an unexpected problem that prevented us from completing your
request.

May need to be individualized.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Paul Rice  wrote:

> LinkedIn
> 
>
> Paul Rice requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
> --
>
> Dave,
>
> I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>
> - Paul Rice
>
> Accept invitation from Paul Rice
>
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>
> --
> (c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation
>
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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Brad Belton]

Bottom line is auto insurance is not required.  However, they are proposing
government run health insurance will be required and you will be fined and
put in jail if you don't buy it.

The entire car insurance as it compares to the proposed health insurance is
a failed argument.  There is no comparison.

Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:25 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

The majority don't have more cars than people, but I don't know any in my 
area that has fewer cars than people, only the same or more.

Some people it's sports cars; some people they have a somewhat nice car they

drive in summer and a beater for winter; some people it's recreational 
whether its for offroading, racing, RVs, etc.; some have a commuter car and 
a regular car; car or two at their summer home; etc.; etc.  Then there's 
vehicles they have due to any work or business they're involved in, but I 
didn't include those.

This tangent is a little too far out, so any further replies on this, please

direct them to me offlist.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:33 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

> Why would the majority of individual people need multiple cars?
>
> I can see a family of 3 having 3 cars.
>
> I can see a worker needing a car to get around and a van/truck for work.
>
> But I can't see random Joe (like me) needing a second vehicle.  Or are you
> including company owned vehicles?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:
>
>> Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or
>> St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes 
>> to
>> participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Blake Bowers" 
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>> > In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
>> > if you own/operate a vehicle.
>> >
>> > There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
>> >
>> > In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
>> > period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
>> > am happy with that.
>> >
>> >
>> > Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> > heaven knows we need them down here!
>> > Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> > From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> > To: "WISPA General List" 
>> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> >
>> >
>> >> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will 
>> >> get
>> >> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
>> >> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a 
>> >> minimum
>> >> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at
>> >> the
>> >> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
>> >> healthcare because I don't live there.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
>> >> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to
>> >> any
>> >> business.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Mike Hammett
>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> >> http://www.ics-il.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> From: "Brad Belton" 
>> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
>> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>> >>
>> >>> The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed
>> argument.
>> >>> The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't
>> need
>> >>> it.
>> >>> The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
>> >>> buying
>> >>> auto insurance from them if you don't need it.
>> >>>
>> >>> Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
>> >>> ultimately
>> >>> put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
>> >>> taking
>> >>> your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
>> >>> from
>> >>> them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see 
>> >>> fit.
>> >>>
>> >>> Big difference.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Brad
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -Original Message-
>> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wi

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:45, Brad Belton  wrote:

> Bottom line is auto insurance is not required.  However, they are proposing
> government run health insurance will be required and you will be fined and
> put in jail if you don't buy it.
>

[citation needed]

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[chris cooper]

Another thing to consider in this scenario is negotiated fees.  If you
have insurance, the insurance company will negotiate a discount on the
fees charged by the provider on your behalf.  You pay your deductible,
your insurance carrier pays the difference between your deductible
contribution and the discounted amount. Most carriers will have
pre-negotiated discounts in place with the providers.  The providers try
to get the costs up to factor in the discounts. In the case below, the
discount could get the ultimate cost pretty close to the cash price.  If
this was a Medicaid case, the actual payment to the provider would be
$1000 less than the cash price of $15,000.  Medicaid has @ a 65%
discount.

You pay the insurance company a premium.  Out of that premium the
insurance company does three things - takes profit, pays claims and pays
its administrative costs. Here are the rough numbers for the three
silos:

Profit  3%
Overhead11%
Claims  86%

There isn't a whole lot of room to shift allocation on the first two
items.  The biggest column to move is the $.86 of every dollar that gets
paid out in claims.  The only way to do that is to use less services or
be smarter about the ones you do use.  The best way to do that is to be
well.  Live a healthier lifestyle = less sickness.  You might be able to
reduce your premiums if you promote wellness within your employees just
because they will go to the doctor less.  Incent them to stop smoking,
loose weight, exercise etc.  Share some of the savings you realize in
premium dollars with them through deductible rebate, wellness program
expenses etc.  A healthier group will have lower premiums.  It pays to
have your group healthy.

Our medical system is set up to treat and not prevent disease.  As a
nation we eat quarter pounders and drink quarts of soda.  This causes
heart disease.  When you get heart disease, you go to the doctor, he
puts you on meds and sends you to the cardiac care unit to get a cardiac
procedure done.  This generates big dollars for the drug company and big
dollars for the hospital performing the procedure.  We all could save
the system, and therefore ourselves, billions just by avoiding this
scenario.

Chris




> I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high 
> insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends
that 
> have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had
insurance, 
> Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals.
Friend 
> 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's
surgery. 
> Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the
cost 
> was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.
>
> I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was
charged 
> $10 for 1 Tylenol.
>
> So something smells awful fishy here.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Brad Belton" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
>
>>The answer to your first question is our government currently limits
where
>>insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire
country 
>>to
>>all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
>>prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials
can't
>>seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
>>
>>Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option
will
>>discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a
single
>>payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services 
>>provided
>>will go down.
>>
>>Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
>>Behalf Of Paul C Diem
>>Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
>>To: 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
>>program will do.
>>
>>Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because
is 
>>gets
>>me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about 
>>this:
>>
>>1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
>>insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
>>enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is 
>>averaging
>>a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
>>competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a 
>>great
>>$75 billion/year?
>>
>>2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored
health
>>care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance
industry.
>>How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to
free
>>enterprises in any industry?
>>
>>Paul C Diem
>>pcd...@foxvalley.net
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>Fro

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Brad Belton]

While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have
read more of it than you.

Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:45, Brad Belton  wrote:

> Bottom line is auto insurance is not required.  However, they are
proposing
> government run health insurance will be required and you will be fined and
> put in jail if you don't buy it.
>

[citation needed]

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Blake Bowers]

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

>> Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE
>> to have insurance.
>>
>> With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance.
>>
>
> But you also have to be healthy. Unless of course you're harboring latent
> suicidal impulses...
>

Take away my ice cream then.  I pay my own way - and I am fairly healthy
although I could lose some weight.  I still run circles around my 
firefighters
on my fire department, the ones that are 20-25 years younger than I.

Where does all this stop?  Will they actually want to take away my
ice cream?  The scoop comes away only when you pry it from my cold
dead fingers
>
>
>
>> It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they
>> would
>> if paying out of pocket.  Seems like that is a dangerous progression.
>>
>
> I don't see this as a problem, really. It encourages people to be
> responsible for their own health, and to get regular checkups and
> preventative care.
>

It should.  What it actually encourages is what I posted about my flu
experience.  More unnecessary trips to the doctor.  VERY overloaded
Emergency rooms. 




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[WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

[Alan Long]

I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in
26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection
back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet
for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out.
Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday
before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor
Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for
several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a
router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup
since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues?
I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it
to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up.

 





  

 

 



Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire
 
 687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830 


  alan.l...@aerowire.net 


tel: 
mobile: 

 
 3342759998
 
 336092 

 



 
 Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?

 

<>


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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton  wrote:

> While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have
> read more of it than you.


Clearly not, or else you'd know that the "fine" actually is just a tax
penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill
actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you
explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax).
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/

Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it
doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions
of Americans.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Blake Bowers]

Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Ryan Spott" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


> If they use it more, would they have potentially expensive health issues
> caught faster?
>
> Again, from my experience in the ambulance, poo' people are more likely to
> get REALLY sick because they have no preventative care.
>

I don't know about that.  From my EMS experience, since 1977, we spend too
much time playing the medicare/medicade taxi, for trips we should absolutely
not be doing.  The outlook is that they have medicare/caid, we have to carry 
them
because they don't have a car, to the ER at 2:30 am, because they are drunk, 
or
because they have a cold, etc.  How is that helping?

And an outlook that will get me labeled, but it appears to me that the 
medicare/caid
folks are (absent of meth or other addictions) often the best over fed.

A dear friend of mine has spent too many lifetimes in the ER as an RN, and 
she
puts it simply - if you have trauma, if you have dangerous medical problems, 
she
will lick the blood off of you if that is what it takes.  (Note to all, its 
a phrase, not
an action)

If you have a cold?  Why are you bothering me? GOMER!

I fear I am digressing - no one could notice that misuse of EMS is a pet 
peeve
could they?



> Another example: My $10-my-wife-hates-the-job-he-does barber was telling 
> me
> he *was* on high blood pressure meds because his resting blood pressure 
> was
> 130/90!. He stopped taking the meds because he got hives from them. I told
> him he should go back in and get the proper meds as his blood pressure was
> pretty darn high. He won't because he cannot afford to go in for a basic
> office visit.. Great, now I get to transport his behind to the hospital 
> when
> he is gorked out from an aneurysm.
>

No clinic nearby that has a sliding scale?  (Everywhere has those now a 
days)

We are talking a minor visit here, under 100 bucks at full rate.  Just a med
change.  Priorities?


> Since he has no basic health care he will probably not get anything 
> besides
> basic life supporting care at the hospital (or if he does, it will break
> him) and I will either pay the cost of his bankruptcy (in higher interest 
> on
> my CCard) or I will pay for his long term care.
>
> Great, another mouth to feed.
>

Versus going on another plan that may very well still be another mouth to 
feed? 




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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[jp]

I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards.

I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either 
use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable 
and reliable manufacturer.

You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU 
more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as 
the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to 
familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts 
out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name 
radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my 
radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full 
time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build 
radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers.


On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote:
> It's 2:30 AM...
> 
> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all, 
> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head, 
> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 
> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
> 
> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one of 
> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next 
> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just 
> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but I 
> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is 
> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few 
> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. 
> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
> 
> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the 
> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much 
> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx 
> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
> 
> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday, 
> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2 
> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
> 
> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used 
> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and 
> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. 
> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board, 
> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's 
> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the 
> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to do 
> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd be 
> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new 
> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
> 
> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... 
> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's 
> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive 
> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text 
> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
> 
> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts 
> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back 
> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I 
> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I just 
> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the 
> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab a 
> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a 
> few weeks old.
> 
> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up 
> the mountain.
> 
> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
> 
> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I 
> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 min 
> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the 
> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.
> 
> Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.   I 
> see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug it 
> in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not working. 
> log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.
> 
> Put old RB14 back in, change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios 
> detect, data flowing to customers.
> 
> Drive home.   Try to thaw ou

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Chuck Profito]

It is also snowing here in Vernalis and Modesto areas, and north, but it's
barely sticking here. We haven't seen snow this low since maybe the 80's
I guess I've got to put away the floral shirt and shorts and find me a hat
with ears. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's snowing here!

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?  

I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
usually
buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
much
worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. 

Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?

And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my
hands at
the same time.

So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?

Thanks.

Bob-













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Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

[Scott Reed]

Broadcast storm?

Alan Long wrote:
> I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed in
> 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection
> back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same subnet
> for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access out.
> Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday
> before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi nor
> Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked for
> several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a
> router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup
> since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these issues?
> I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get it
> to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up.
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
>
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830 
>
>
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
>
>
> tel: 
> mobile: 
>
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
>
>  
>
>
>
>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>
>   Want a
> signature like this?
>
>  
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[jree...@18-30chat.net]

SShhh, don't tell him that, hes a StarOS guy =)

Along the same, my primary site went down last night, cycling every
30~45seconds. -15F reported at the site this morning. RB433 is spec'd
for -4FW T F

Time to replace it with a few NS's and a RB450/750 in better temp controlled
case. To bad they do not make a RB790 with POE =)


jp wrote:
> I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards.
> 
> I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either 
> use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable 
> and reliable manufacturer.
> 
> You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU 
> more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as 
> the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to 
> familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts 
> out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name 
> radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my 
> radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full 
> time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build 
> radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers.
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote:
>> It's 2:30 AM...
>>
>> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all, 
>> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head, 
>> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25 
>> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>>
>> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one of 
>> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next 
>> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just 
>> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but I 
>> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is 
>> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few 
>> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week. 
>> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>>
>> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the 
>> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much 
>> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx 
>> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>>
>> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday, 
>> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2 
>> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>>
>> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used 
>> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and 
>> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times. 
>> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board, 
>> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's 
>> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the 
>> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to do 
>> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd be 
>> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new 
>> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>>
>> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ... 
>> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's 
>> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive 
>> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text 
>> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
>>
>> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts 
>> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back 
>> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I 
>> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I just 
>> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the 
>> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab a 
>> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a 
>> few weeks old.
>>
>> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
>> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it up 
>> the mountain.
>>
>> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
>>
>> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I 
>> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 min 
>> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the 
>> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.
>>
>> Inspect EVE

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Blair Davis]

Carheart  and Thinsulate are the words to remember

Robert West wrote:

  It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my
feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?  

I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually
buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty much
worn out, time for crap to keep me warm. 

Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?

And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at
the same time.

So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?

Thanks.

Bob-












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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Mike Hammett]

MT provides a specially modified RB14 (at least they did a few years ago) 
that handles multiple high power cards.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "jp" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

> I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards.
>
> I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either
> use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable
> and reliable manufacturer.
>
> You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU
> more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as
> the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to
> familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts
> out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name
> radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my
> radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full
> time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build
> radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote:
>> It's 2:30 AM...
>>
>> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
>> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head,
>> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
>> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>>
>> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one 
>> of
>> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
>> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
>> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, 
>> but I
>> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
>> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a 
>> few
>> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
>> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>>
>> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
>> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
>> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a 
>> mini-itx
>> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>>
>> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
>> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
>> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>>
>> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, 
>> used
>> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
>> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times.
>> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX 
>> board,
>> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like 
>> what's
>> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
>> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to 
>> do
>> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd 
>> be
>> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
>> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>>
>> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
>> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
>> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, 
>> drive
>> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
>> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
>>
>> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the 
>> parts
>> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive 
>> back
>> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
>> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I 
>> just
>> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the
>> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I 
>> grab a
>> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is 
>> a
>> few weeks old.
>>
>> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
>> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it 
>> up
>> the mountain.
>>
>> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
>>
>> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I
>> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20 
>> min
>> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up 
>> the
>> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Jerry Richardson]

Thanks for this list.

We don't see a lot of really cold weather, but when a cold storm comes through, 
it seems that's when I have to go fix something on the towermy pal Murphy.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Robert West
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:36 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

Thanks, Shaddi.  

Good list.  Haven't thought at all about some of that.  I'll look it all
over.


I forgot to mention it all has to fit under the safety harness as well!

Bob-

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

This is mostly from my list of gear I use for backpacking and biking during
winter... maybe it'll be useful to you, though.

First, my two favorite pieces of gear are a Windstopper fleece tobaggon and
a pair of silk-weight windstopper gloves. Windstopper is a wind-proof,
water-resistant fabric that in my experience is a good, cheaper alternative
to Goretex in non-wet conditions. Mountain Hardware sells one of these (I
think they call it "Dome Perignon") that I could not get through winter
without. Manzella sells the best silkweight windstopper gloves I've found.
They are seriously thin (like a cotton t-shirt), so they don't impede
motion, but because they are windproof and water resistant they do wonders
for keeping hands warm. I have a pair of down mittens I wear over them in
wet and super-cold conditions, but otherwise those gloves work great.

Second, I strongly believe in the benefits of a good baselayer. This means
longjohns and long undershirts. The material makes a /huge/ difference here.
Polyester or polypropylene is best, in my experience, though I've heard
merino wool is pretty awesome too. REI sells this under the name "MTS"; they
have a range of weights, but I've found midweight to be pretty sufficient
for me. And don't forget socks! Wool socks are a must, they will change your
life...

When it gets really cold, I put on the down. Nothing can beat down for
warmth and weight, but it doesn't retain heat when wet, which is very
important to remember. Itis a bit pricey though, and you have to take care
of it well.

Generally, knowing your fabrics and how to layer properly will go a long way
in keeping you warm. Hats make the biggest difference in keeping you warm,
and a good base layer will let your body's natural means of keeping warm be
effective.

Most of this stuff you can buy at outdoors or climbing stores, or online
from backcountry.com or REI.com. FWIW, I live in North Carolina, so your
definition of cold may differ slightly than mine. But, I have used most of
this stuff at altitude so I'm confident in its warm-keeping ability.

Shaddi

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands
> at
> the same time.
>
> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>




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-

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!

Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!

First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved 
shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.

I wear thick blue jeans.

Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the Carharts

are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.

If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over 
the top of all of that.

I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. 
I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.

For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the 
fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and 
are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger 
on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts 
anyway.

Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't 
work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely 
tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are at. 
The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do 
amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.

Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an 
artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes, 
use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.

I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust

anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has 
been sitting for a while.

Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when

doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of

the time).

For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got 
flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a 
hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker version 
of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull 
over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten older 
it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and 
windy.

Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not mission

critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until 
things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The 
cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars 
don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out 
here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they 
understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow

over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily 
managed with cold water and slow movement

Hope that helps,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
> my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands 
> at
> the same time.
>
> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 





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-

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

You got it.  It runs like a dream unless it's 2am, 5 below, 2 foot of snow
and the ladder to the top is covered in ice.  Other than that, it's a happy
day.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

Thanks for this list.

We don't see a lot of really cold weather, but when a cold storm comes
through, it seems that's when I have to go fix something on the towermy
pal Murphy.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:36 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

Thanks, Shaddi.  

Good list.  Haven't thought at all about some of that.  I'll look it all
over.


I forgot to mention it all has to fit under the safety harness as well!

Bob-

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

This is mostly from my list of gear I use for backpacking and biking during
winter... maybe it'll be useful to you, though.

First, my two favorite pieces of gear are a Windstopper fleece tobaggon and
a pair of silk-weight windstopper gloves. Windstopper is a wind-proof,
water-resistant fabric that in my experience is a good, cheaper alternative
to Goretex in non-wet conditions. Mountain Hardware sells one of these (I
think they call it "Dome Perignon") that I could not get through winter
without. Manzella sells the best silkweight windstopper gloves I've found.
They are seriously thin (like a cotton t-shirt), so they don't impede
motion, but because they are windproof and water resistant they do wonders
for keeping hands warm. I have a pair of down mittens I wear over them in
wet and super-cold conditions, but otherwise those gloves work great.

Second, I strongly believe in the benefits of a good baselayer. This means
longjohns and long undershirts. The material makes a /huge/ difference here.
Polyester or polypropylene is best, in my experience, though I've heard
merino wool is pretty awesome too. REI sells this under the name "MTS"; they
have a range of weights, but I've found midweight to be pretty sufficient
for me. And don't forget socks! Wool socks are a must, they will change your
life...

When it gets really cold, I put on the down. Nothing can beat down for
warmth and weight, but it doesn't retain heat when wet, which is very
important to remember. Itis a bit pricey though, and you have to take care
of it well.

Generally, knowing your fabrics and how to layer properly will go a long way
in keeping you warm. Hats make the biggest difference in keeping you warm,
and a good base layer will let your body's natural means of keeping warm be
effective.

Most of this stuff you can buy at outdoors or climbing stores, or online
from backcountry.com or REI.com. FWIW, I live in North Carolina, so your
definition of cold may differ slightly than mine. But, I have used most of
this stuff at altitude so I'm confident in its warm-keeping ability.

Shaddi

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands
> at
> the same time.
>
> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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--

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Josh Cheney]

Actually, as long as it is all done with quality (read: expensive) gear, 
it really wouldn't look all that different.

We saw temps of -40 F for a while last winter, and Marlon is spot on. 
The only thing that I would add is to make sure that the layer closest 
to your skin is something other than cotton (something polyester or 
wool, Under Armor is great but expensive), especially if there is a 
chance that layer could get wet.

Josh

Robert West wrote:
> Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!
> 
> Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
> 
> It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!
> 
> First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved 
> shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.
> 
> I wear thick blue jeans.
> 
> Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the Carharts
> 
> are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.
> 
> If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over 
> the top of all of that.
> 
> I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. 
> I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.
> 
> For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
> Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the 
> fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and 
> are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger 
> on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts 
> anyway.
> 
> Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't 
> work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely 
> tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are at. 
> The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do 
> amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.
> 
> Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an 
> artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes, 
> use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.
> 
> I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust
> 
> anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has 
> been sitting for a while.
> 
> Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when
> 
> doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of
> 
> the time).
> 
> For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got 
> flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a 
> hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker version 
> of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull 
> over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten older 
> it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and 
> windy.
> 
> Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not mission
> 
> critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until 
> things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The 
> cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars 
> don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out 
> here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they 
> understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow
> 
> over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily 
> managed with cold water and slow movement
> 
> Hope that helps,
> marlon
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Robert West" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
> 
> 
>> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
>> my
>> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>>
>> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
>> usually
>> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
>> much
>> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>>
>> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>>
>> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands 
>> at
>> the same time.
>>
>> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Jeff Broadwick]

That made me smile Robert.  Thank you for that! 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!

Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!

First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved
shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.

I wear thick blue jeans.

Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the Carharts

are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.

If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over
the top of all of that.

I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. 
I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.

For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the
fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and
are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger
on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts
anyway.

Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't
work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely
tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are at. 
The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do
amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.

Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an
artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes,
use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.

I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust

anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has
been sitting for a while.

Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when

doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of

the time).

For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got
flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a
hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker version
of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull
over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten older
it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and
windy.

Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not mission

critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until
things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The
cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars
don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out
here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they
understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow

over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily
managed with cold water and slow movement

Hope that helps,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
> my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands 
> at
> the same time.
>
> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 



---

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

You're welcome.  I've already envisioned PoE powered socks and gloves as
well.  Just install a switch inside the lining of your coat and one cable
controls all.  Make it IP based and you can monitor and control the temps as
"Zones" with the your iPhone or Blackberry.  "Feet Cold?  We have an App for
that!"

Sadly, you want one, you know you do.  Yet, it is only the fantasy male
geeks everywhere.


Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

That made me smile Robert.  Thank you for that! 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!

Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!

First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved
shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.

I wear thick blue jeans.

Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the Carharts

are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.

If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over
the top of all of that.

I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. 
I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.

For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the
fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and
are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger
on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts
anyway.

Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't
work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely
tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are at. 
The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do
amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.

Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an
artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes,
use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.

I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust

anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has
been sitting for a while.

Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when

doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of

the time).

For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got
flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a
hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker version
of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull
over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten older
it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and
windy.

Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not mission

critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until
things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The
cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars
don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out
here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they
understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow

over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily
managed with cold water and slow movement

Hope that helps,
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
> my
> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
> usually
> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
> much
> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
> And gloves!  

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Mike]

Thinsulate is good and light.  Redwing has some insulated lace up 
boots with Thinsulate.  They have fiberglass shanks and fiberglass 
toes instead of steel -- supposed to be safer for electricians.

I think the Wrangler jeans with Thinsulate in them are awesome.  It's 
warmer than long johns and regular jeans.

Wool socks, with a silk under sock is the answer for warm feet.  Some 
people just use thin tight socks as the first layer, but the two 
layers is the answer.

Thinsulate gloves are the best going.  A pair of tight goatskin or 
deer skin gloves will give you some dexterity.  Use a larger pair of 
gloves with Thinsulate in them over them when you don't need the dexterity.

I don't mind the cold.  Wind and wind blown snow are my bane.

Mike

At 01:07 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my
>feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>
>I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually
>buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty much
>worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>
>Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>
>And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at
>the same time.
>
>So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





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Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Mike]

Don't use steel wool.  You will never get all the steel back 
out.  Clean them with warm soapy water and let them dry well.  The 
black you are seeing is probably silver oxide on the silver 
plating.  Silver oxide conducts RF just fine.  They can be really 
black and still work just fine.



At 01:51 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>Another issue I find myself with...
>
>
>
>Dude gives me 4 2.4GHz Andrews 90 degree sectors.  Cool!  But I have to take
>them down if I want them.  So I go to take them down. Hey!  No LMR-400 on
>these things!  Just naked N connectors...  WTF?!
>
>
>
>"Oh yeah, I put them up there but never got around to running any cable."
>says Wisp operator useta-wannabe.
>
>
>
>Nice.  They were up there naked since spring.  Inside of the connectors look
>"okay" but still not perfect.  I read on the net about using alcohol, sounds
>bogus unless I'm supposed to drink it until I no longer care.  My first
>thought is steel wool then I imagined myself striping the gold surface of
>the interior.  One connector is a bit black on the outside threads, I
>attribute this to the large amount of bird crap on the radome.  Fun.
>
>
>
>What's the right way to rehab these things?  Never had to deal with this
>before, I tape everything including the cat.
>
>
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Scott Reed]

If it works off batteries, you could easily make a "breakout" panel.  
Plug the cable into your coat.  Take the power to the coat.  Data pairs 
to another jack. Plug in the laptop.  Stay warm and configure away.

Robert West wrote:
> Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!
>
> Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!
>
> First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved 
> shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.
>
> I wear thick blue jeans.
>
> Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the Carharts
>
> are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.
>
> If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over 
> the top of all of that.
>
> I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet. 
> I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.
>
> For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
> Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the 
> fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and 
> are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger 
> on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts 
> anyway.
>
> Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't 
> work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely 
> tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are at. 
> The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do 
> amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.
>
> Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an 
> artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes, 
> use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.
>
> I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't trust
>
> anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or has 
> been sitting for a while.
>
> Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes when
>
> doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all of
>
> the time).
>
> For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got 
> flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a 
> hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker version 
> of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull 
> over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten older 
> it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and 
> windy.
>
> Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not mission
>
> critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until 
> things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The 
> cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars 
> don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out 
> here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they 
> understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders blow
>
> over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily 
> managed with cold water and slow movement
>
> Hope that helps,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Robert West" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
>
>   
>> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
>> my
>> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>>
>> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
>> usually
>> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
>> much
>> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>>
>> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>>
>> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands 
>> at
>> the same time.
>>
>> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
>>

Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Robert West]

Sounds reasonable to me.  I have found that my first instinct is often not
correct.  Hence the existence of my first wife.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:45 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

Don't use steel wool.  You will never get all the steel back 
out.  Clean them with warm soapy water and let them dry well.  The 
black you are seeing is probably silver oxide on the silver 
plating.  Silver oxide conducts RF just fine.  They can be really 
black and still work just fine.



At 01:51 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>Another issue I find myself with...
>
>
>
>Dude gives me 4 2.4GHz Andrews 90 degree sectors.  Cool!  But I have to
take
>them down if I want them.  So I go to take them down. Hey!  No LMR-400 on
>these things!  Just naked N connectors...  WTF?!
>
>
>
>"Oh yeah, I put them up there but never got around to running any cable."
>says Wisp operator useta-wannabe.
>
>
>
>Nice.  They were up there naked since spring.  Inside of the connectors
look
>"okay" but still not perfect.  I read on the net about using alcohol,
sounds
>bogus unless I'm supposed to drink it until I no longer care.  My first
>thought is steel wool then I imagined myself striping the gold surface of
>the interior.  One connector is a bit black on the outside threads, I
>attribute this to the large amount of bird crap on the radome.  Fun.
>
>
>
>What's the right way to rehab these things?  Never had to deal with this
>before, I tape everything including the cat.
>
>
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---
-
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>---
-
>
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>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

We have the makings of a product here.  No, not one that will generate cash
but a real bonafide product that someone could lose a lot of money
manufacturing and marketing.  It's the American way.  (Made in China, of
course)





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Reed
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

If it works off batteries, you could easily make a "breakout" panel.  
Plug the cable into your coat.  Take the power to the coat.  Data pairs 
to another jack. Plug in the laptop.  Stay warm and configure away.

Robert West wrote:
> Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!
>
> Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!
>
> First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved 
> shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.
>
> I wear thick blue jeans.
>
> Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the
Carharts
>
> are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.
>
> If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over 
> the top of all of that.
>
> I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet.

> I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.
>
> For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version. 
> Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the 
> fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and

> are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger 
> on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts 
> anyway.
>
> Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't 
> work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely 
> tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are
at. 
> The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do 
> amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.
>
> Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an

> artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes,

> use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.
>
> I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't
trust
>
> anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or
has 
> been sitting for a while.
>
> Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes
when
>
> doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all
of
>
> the time).
>
> For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got

> flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a 
> hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker
version 
> of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull 
> over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten
older 
> it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and 
> windy.
>
> Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not
mission
>
> critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until 
> things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The

> cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars

> don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out 
> here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they 
> understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders
blow
>
> over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily 
> managed with cold water and slow movement
>
> Hope that helps,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Robert West" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
>
>   
>> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and 
>> my
>> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>>
>> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and 
>> usually
>> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty 
>> much
>> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>>
>> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>>
>> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands

>> at
>> the same time.
>>
>> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates wha

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Rick Herrmann]

Concerning mandatory auto insurance, I think missing is the fact that while
not required to have a car, I would be hard pressed to survive without a
human body. The requirement for all that drive cars represents the same
principle, that if everyone that fits the profile (car drivers, those with
human bodies, whatever) responsibly share the risk (insurance), it is
fairest to all.

My rates for "uninsured motorist" coverage are way below what they were
before mandatory insurance. 

Rick


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Blake Bowers
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:54 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

Ok, but you still don't HAVE to have a car - hence you don't HAVE
to have insurance.

With the new plan, no matter what, I HAVE to pay for insurance.

You can bet, if I HAVE to, I will go to the doctor more often.  I recently
had the flu.  Swine most likely, normally the flu will have me down for 2-3 
days.  This
one, 3 WEEKS in bed.

I never went to the doctor, what was the point.  Sound financial decision. 
If
I had insurance, I would have been right there, just in case there was 
something
that might be able to be done.

It is proven, if people have health insurance, they use it more than they 
would
if paying out of pocket.  Seems like that is a dangerous progression.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


> Well right, but a vast majority of people that live outside of Chicago or
> St. Louis have one or more cars per person because that's what it takes to
> participate in society (work, school, food, etc.).
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Blake Bowers" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:07 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>> In IL, like Missouri, you are only required to have that insurance
>> if you own/operate a vehicle.
>>
>> There are LOTS of people out there that don't.
>>
>> In the US, if they have their way, I will be required to have insurance
>> period.  It does not matter if I am self pay, never not payed, and
>> am happy with that.
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>
>>
>>> In Illinois you are required to purchase auto insurance and you will get
>>> fined, and I believe ultimately jailed if you continue to ignore that
>>> mandate.  They don't provide it, but you are required to carry a minimum
>>> liability.  It is at the state level, where it should be instead of at
>>> the
>>> national level.  I don't care that Massachusetts has state run public
>>> healthcare because I don't live there.
>>>
>>> I'm sure someone will complain about being a political discussion, but
>>> health insurance and how the government treats it is very important to
>>> any
>>> business.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Brad Belton" 
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:26 PM
>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>>>
 The auto insurance vs. health insurance comparison is a flawed 
 argument.
 The government doesn't force you to buy auto insurance if you don't 
 need
 it.
 The government won't fine you and ultimately put you in jail for not
 buying
 auto insurance from them if you don't need it.

 Our government is proposing law that will enable them to fine and
 ultimately
 put you in jail for not buying health insurance from them.  They are
 taking
 your freedom of choice away from you and forcing you to buy something
 from
 them at a price they see fit and with a level of service they see fit.

 Big difference.



 Brad


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Ryan Spott
 Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 9:50 PM
 To: nsto...@wisperisp.com; WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

 "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
 system.
 One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.  If you
 want
 better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to 
 the
 newest hospitals you pay extr

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Ryan Spott]

>
>
> Take away my ice cream then.  I pay my own way - and I am fairly healthy
> although I could lose some weight.  I still run circles around my
> firefighters
> on my fire department, the ones that are 20-25 years younger than I.
>
> Where does all this stop?  Will they actually want to take away my
> ice cream?  The scoop comes away only when you pry it from my cold
> dead fingers
>
> You use a scoop? I just take care of the pint sized containers. :)

ryan



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Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance

[RickG]

Yes, I take issue with $8 Tylenol. I wasnt given a choice. I have a choice
whether or not ot have a $5 beer. With that said, I dont just blame one
group for the health care issues. There is plenty of blame to go around,
whether its lawyers, doctors, or insurance companies.
Also, it is NOT fact the hostpitals work with you. At the time I had no
insurance and they forced me to pay the full amount without any discount.
They wouldnt even discuss it. Furthermore, because I had no insurance, my
rate was higher! -RickG

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:50 AM,  wrote:

> Just taking issue with the "I was charged $8 for two Tylenol", "I was
> charged $10 for a Tylenol". A beer in a bar (with far less overhead) is $5.
>
> Isn't the fact that if one doesn't have insurance the hospitals work with
> you at the very least go to show that the folks providing us healthcare
> aren't the cold hearted money grabbing parasites some pushing for healthcare
> reform (I mean people I know and people I hear on TV, not pointing fingers
> at anyone here on the list) try to claim they are? I know of examples where
> patients couldn't afford the meds so the pharmaceutical company donated
> them, or a friend (who's a missionary in the jungle and not much money)
> who's daughter ran up a $500,000 bill being on a special life support device
> which the company itself helped pay for and the rest was covered by grants.
> Our system is not as "broken" as some want to make it out to be. Many of the
> uninsured are uninsured by choice or illegals. I live in Venezuela and I am
> covered by their free system there (though if it matters and one has the
> money people go to the paid clinics) BUT I'M NOT THERE ILLEGALLY.
>
> Greg
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote:
>
> > I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high
> insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that
> have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance,
> Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1
> with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery.
> Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was
> around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case.
> >
> > I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged
> $10 for 1 Tylenol.
> >
> > So something smells awful fishy here.
> >
> > Scottie
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Brad Belton" 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600
> >
> >> The answer to your first question is our government currently limits
> where
> >> insurance companies can offer their coverage.  Open up the entire
> country to
> >> all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and
> >> prices decrease.  This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't
> >> seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to.
> >>
> >> Your second question/point is correct.  Creating a government option
> will
> >> discourage competition resulting in a single payer system.  With a
> single
> >> payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services
> provided
> >> will go down.
> >>
> >> Without competition I see this as the only outcome.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Paul C Diem
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM
> >> To: 'WISPA General List'
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>
> >> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
> >> program will do.
> >>
> >> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is
> gets
> >> me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about
> this:
> >>
> >> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
> >> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
> >> enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
> averaging
> >> a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
> >> competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a
> great
> >> $75 billion/year?
> >>
> >> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
> >> care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance
> industry.
> >> How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to
> free
> >> enterprises in any industry?
> >>
> >> Paul C Diem
> >> pcd...@foxvalley.net
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of RickG
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>
> >>
> >> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty
>

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Josh Luthman]

I have RB333, 532, 433 and 411 survive without issue last winter when it hit
-10F.  Non temperature controlled environments - freezing their chips off on
water towers and towers.

I'd take the suggestion provided and just use a Routerboard.  ITX is decent
but I've seen several scenarios frown upon it in cold weather (like
carputers)?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> MT provides a specially modified RB14 (at least they did a few years ago)
> that handles multiple high power cards.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "jp" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!
>
> > I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards.
> >
> > I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either
> > use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable
> > and reliable manufacturer.
> >
> > You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU
> > more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as
> > the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to
> > familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts
> > out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name
> > radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my
> > radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full
> > time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build
> > radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote:
> >> It's 2:30 AM...
> >>
> >> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> >> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their
> head,
> >> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like
> 25
> >> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
> >>
> >> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing
> one
> >> of
> >> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> >> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I
> just
> >> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it,
> >> but I
> >> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> >> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a
> >> few
> >> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> >> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
> >>
> >> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> >> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> >> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a
> >> mini-itx
> >> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
> >>
> >> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since
> Friday,
> >> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> >> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
> >>
> >> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site,
> >> used
> >> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> >> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several
> times.
> >> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX
> >> board,
> >> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like
> >> what's
> >> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> >> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go
> to
> >> do
> >> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said
> she'd
> >> be
> >> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the
> new
> >> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
> >>
> >> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> >> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> >> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up,
> >> drive
> >> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> >> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
> >>
> >> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the
> >> parts
> >> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive
> >> back
> >> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally,
> I
> >> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I
> >> just
> >> put 60 customers down.   I t

Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

[Josh Luthman]

When you say "no wifi" does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that
your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4?

I would have to guess packet storm as well.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed wrote:

> Broadcast storm?
>
> Alan Long wrote:
> > I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed
> in
> > 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire connection
> > back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same
> subnet
> > for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access
> out.
> > Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The Tuesday
> > before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi
> nor
> > Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked
> for
> > several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a
> > router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup
> > since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these
> issues?
> > I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't get
> it
> > to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Alan Long
> > Director of Network Operations
> >
> > Aerowire
> >
> > <
> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
> > rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> > Auburn, AL 36830
> >
> >
> >   alan.l...@aerowire.net
> >
> >
> > tel:
> > mobile:
> >
> >
> > <
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> >
> > <
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <
> https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
> > nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> >
> >   Want
> a
> > signature like this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> Scott Reed
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> GAB Midwest
> 1-800-363-1544 x4000
> Cell: 260-273-7239
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Brad Belton]

If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this
particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later.

Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a
price they determine with services they see fit.  Doesn't sound like a good
idea to me...


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton  wrote:

> While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have
> read more of it than you.


Clearly not, or else you'd know that the "fine" actually is just a tax
penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill
actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you
explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax).
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/

Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it
doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions
of Americans.

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

[Alan Long]

Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the sniffer
going now.


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

When you say "no wifi" does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that
your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4?

I would have to guess packet storm as well.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed
wrote:

> Broadcast storm?
>
> Alan Long wrote:
> > I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed
> in
> > 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire
connection
> > back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same
> subnet
> > for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access
> out.
> > Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The
Tuesday
> > before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no wifi
> nor
> > Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked
> for
> > several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a
> > router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup
> > since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these
> issues?
> > I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't
get
> it
> > to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Alan Long
> > Director of Network Operations
> >
> > Aerowire
> >
> > <
>
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
> > rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> > Auburn, AL 36830
> >
> >
> >   alan.l...@aerowire.net
> >
> >
> > tel:
> > mobile:
> >
> >
> > <
>
http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> >
> > <
>
http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
> > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <
>
https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
> > nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> >
> >   Want
> a
> > signature like this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>


> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> Scott Reed
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> GAB Midwest
> 1-800-363-1544 x4000
> Cell: 260-273-7239
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
>


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No virus found in this incoming message.
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01:33:00




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Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Get a bigger harness!  You might need two of them

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> Thanks, Shaddi.
>
> Good list.  Haven't thought at all about some of that.  I'll look it all
> over.
>
>
> I forgot to mention it all has to fit under the safety harness as well!
>
> Bob-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Shaddi Hasan
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> This is mostly from my list of gear I use for backpacking and biking 
> during
> winter... maybe it'll be useful to you, though.
>
> First, my two favorite pieces of gear are a Windstopper fleece tobaggon 
> and
> a pair of silk-weight windstopper gloves. Windstopper is a wind-proof,
> water-resistant fabric that in my experience is a good, cheaper 
> alternative
> to Goretex in non-wet conditions. Mountain Hardware sells one of these (I
> think they call it "Dome Perignon") that I could not get through winter
> without. Manzella sells the best silkweight windstopper gloves I've found.
> They are seriously thin (like a cotton t-shirt), so they don't impede
> motion, but because they are windproof and water resistant they do wonders
> for keeping hands warm. I have a pair of down mittens I wear over them in
> wet and super-cold conditions, but otherwise those gloves work great.
>
> Second, I strongly believe in the benefits of a good baselayer. This means
> longjohns and long undershirts. The material makes a /huge/ difference 
> here.
> Polyester or polypropylene is best, in my experience, though I've heard
> merino wool is pretty awesome too. REI sells this under the name "MTS"; 
> they
> have a range of weights, but I've found midweight to be pretty sufficient
> for me. And don't forget socks! Wool socks are a must, they will change 
> your
> life...
>
> When it gets really cold, I put on the down. Nothing can beat down for
> warmth and weight, but it doesn't retain heat when wet, which is very
> important to remember. Itis a bit pricey though, and you have to take care
> of it well.
>
> Generally, knowing your fabrics and how to layer properly will go a long 
> way
> in keeping you warm. Hats make the biggest difference in keeping you warm,
> and a good base layer will let your body's natural means of keeping warm 
> be
> effective.
>
> Most of this stuff you can buy at outdoors or climbing stores, or online
> from backcountry.com or REI.com. FWIW, I live in North Carolina, so your
> definition of cold may differ slightly than mine. But, I have used most of
> this stuff at altitude so I'm confident in its warm-keeping ability.
>
> Shaddi
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
>> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
> my
>> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>>
>> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
>> usually
>> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
>> much
>> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>>
>> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>>
>> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands
>> at
>> the same time.
>>
>> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
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> 
> 
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>>
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>>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Marlon K. Schafer]

If it were me?

Toss em and start over.

Not worth the trouble.  Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:51 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors


> Another issue I find myself with...
>
>
>
> Dude gives me 4 2.4GHz Andrews 90 degree sectors.  Cool!  But I have to 
> take
> them down if I want them.  So I go to take them down. Hey!  No LMR-400 on
> these things!  Just naked N connectors...  WTF?!
>
>
>
> "Oh yeah, I put them up there but never got around to running any cable."
> says Wisp operator useta-wannabe.
>
>
>
> Nice.  They were up there naked since spring.  Inside of the connectors 
> look
> "okay" but still not perfect.  I read on the net about using alcohol, 
> sounds
> bogus unless I'm supposed to drink it until I no longer care.  My first
> thought is steel wool then I imagined myself striping the gold surface of
> the interior.  One connector is a bit black on the outside threads, I
> attribute this to the large amount of bird crap on the radome.  Fun.
>
>
>
> What's the right way to rehab these things?  Never had to deal with this
> before, I tape everything including the cat.
>
>
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[RickG]

Praying for ya! I can identify as many here can and we feel your pain. Below
freezing weather really sucks. I had several sessions like that last year.
One time, I had to borrow a friends bucket and it was full of water and
wouldnt drain. So I was in the ice cube filled bucket up to my knees for
about 3 hours. Not sure how I made it. The next time, the bucket was drained
OK but the hydralics had a leak and would let me down. Thats when the snow
storm hit. After waiting for help about an hour, I decided to jump to the
rusty silo ladder about 5 feet away. I vowed to prepare for this winter.
Time will tell. Hang in there buddy! -RickG

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:49 AM, MDK  wrote:

> It's 2:30 AM...
>
> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head,
> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>
> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one
> of
> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but
> I
> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few
> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>
> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx
> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>
> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>
> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used
> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times.
> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board,
> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's
> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to
> do
> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd
> be
> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>
> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive
> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
>
> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts
> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back
> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I
> just
> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the
> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab
> a
> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a
> few weeks old.
>
> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it
> up
> the mountain.
>
> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
>
> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I
> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20
> min
> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the
> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.
>
> Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.
> I
> see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug
> it
> in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not
> working.
> log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.
>
> Put old RB14 back in, change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios
> detect, data flowing to customers.
>
> Drive home.   Try to thaw out.   The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts
> like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything,
> suddenly
> noticed one of the ap radios has no clients.   Odd.   Look at config, looks
> ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate.   As they slowly hop on, I'm
> 

Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

[Josh Luthman]

If you can't see the 2.4 spectrum then the device simply locked up.  What is
causing it sounds like a bug to me.  One simple broadcast packet nails
several of the radios and "freaks them out".  Do you have the latest
firmware for them?  In the past these radios would lose their config if they
had to switch modes (that is, if the default mode out of the box is bridge
you will lose the config - if the default mode out of the box is AP you're
safe).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Long  wrote:

> Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the
> sniffer
> going now.
>
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
>
> When you say "no wifi" does that mean you can not connect to the AP or that
> your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4?
>
> I would have to guess packet storm as well.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed
> wrote:
>
> > Broadcast storm?
> >
> > Alan Long wrote:
> > > I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610 deployed
> > in
> > > 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire
> connection
> > > back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same
> > subnet
> > > for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access
> > out.
> > > Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The
> Tuesday
> > > before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no
> wifi
> > nor
> > > Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked
> > for
> > > several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with a
> > > router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few lockup
> > > since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these
> > issues?
> > > I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't
> get
> > it
> > > to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan Long
> > > Director of Network Operations
> > >
> > > Aerowire
> > >
> > > <
> >
> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
> > > rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> > > Auburn, AL 36830
> > >
> > >
> > >   alan.l...@aerowire.net
> > >
> > >
> > > tel:
> > > mobile:
> > >
> > >
> > > <
> >
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
> > > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> > >
> > > <
> >
> http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
> > > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <
> >
> https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
> > > nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> > >
> > >  
> Want
> > a
> > > signature like this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[RickG]

I had that once. Then I woke up and things were worse than the nightmare. So
I went back to sleep :)

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a
> nightmare?
>
> At least you got a new hat.  That's the bright side out of all this, I say.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of MDK
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!
>
> It's 2:30 AM...
>
> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head,
> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>
> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one
> of
>
> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, but
> I
>
> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a few
> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>
> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a mini-itx
> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>
> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>
> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, used
> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times.
> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX board,
> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like what's
> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to
> do
>
> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd
> be
>
> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>
> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, drive
> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
>
> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the parts
> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive back
> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I
> just
>
> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the
> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I grab
> a
>
> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is a
> few weeks old.
>
> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it
> up
>
> the mountain.
>
> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
>
> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I
> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20
> min
>
> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up the
> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.
>
> Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.
> I
>
> see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug
> it
>
> in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not
> working.
>
> log in through ethernet port... NO RADIOS DETECTED.
>
> Put old RB14 back in, change one radio.   Boots up.  Logs in.   all radios
> detect, data flowing to customers.
>
> Drive home.   Try to thaw out.   The wind up there is 25 mph and it cuts
> like a knife through you.Log in from home and watch everything,
> suddenly
>
> noticed one of the ap radios has no clients.   Odd.   Look at config, looks
> ok, reset radio, clients begin to associate.   As they slowly hop on, I'm
> sitting there wondering why this... and just then,  PM suddenly starts
> popping up red.Sure enough.   Sys

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[MDK]

LOL!It really was a very warm hat.



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:58 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

> Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a
> nightmare?
>
> At least you got a new hat.  That's the bright side out of all this, I 
> say.
>
 




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Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[RickG]

It's true! Having resources in times of need are important. I have a few
good customers I can call on. Most are hams. One time I climbed up a 200'
tower several times to replace everything in an attempt to fix it. I had
been up late the night before and ran out of energy. So, I called one of the
guys and he came out and wrapped it up for me. Of course, Murphy is always
around and when it hits the fan everyone is out of town :)


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Ryan Spott  wrote:

> It is amazing what a new hat can do for your outlook on outside work.  I
> was
> having a &*(^ day in a bucket truck and my wife came by with a hat that had
> been sitting on the dash of her truck with the warm defroster running on
> it.
> I think just that hat recharged me for another 6 hours! :) That and the
> fact
> that someone cares about you...
>
> As for the very long night.. I had an issue where I was not getting BGP
> updates from neighboring ISPs when working for a colo. It was an all
> nighter
> and I finally had the wherewithal to call an alpha geek friend of mine.
> (his
> license plate is his ARIN NIC).
>
> After asking me a few questions to see if he could fix things quickly, he
> told me to go take a nap and not call him until I had slept for at least 2
> hours. I protested, but he assured me we could fix things faster and
> more effectively if I had some small amount of sleep.
>
> Well, 3 hours later, and well rested, I noticed an ACL blocking incoming
> route announcements from my peers. I swear had I not taken that nap it
> would
> have taken me 5 hours to notice!
>
> ryan
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Robert West  >wrote:
>
> > Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a
> > nightmare?
> >
> > At least you got a new hat.  That's the bright side out of all this, I
> say.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of MDK
> > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:50 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!
> >
> > It's 2:30 AM...
> >
> > I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> > weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their
> head,
> > maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
> > mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
> >
> > I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one
> > of
> >
> > those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> > thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
> > crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it,
> but
> > I
> >
> > did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> > connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a
> few
> > miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> > Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
> >
> > The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> > ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> > damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a
> mini-itx
> > board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
> >
> > Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
> > but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> > other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
> >
> > I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site,
> used
> > the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> > everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times.
> > And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX
> board,
> > licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like
> what's
> > up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> > afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to
> > do
> >
> > that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd
> > be
> >
> > there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
> > board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
> >
> > So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> > fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> > after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up,
> drive
> > over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> > message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
> >
> > 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the
> parts
> > and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive
> back
> > up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
> > pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[RickG]

I've had a great experince over the past few years with StarOS/WRAP combos.
They just work. With that said, I am slowly migrating to
Mikrotik/Routerboards because I like the control they offer. So far, they
just work as well. -RickG

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:39 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net <
jree...@18-30chat.net> wrote:

> SShhh, don't tell him that, hes a StarOS guy =)
>
> Along the same, my primary site went down last night, cycling every
> 30~45seconds. -15F reported at the site this morning. RB433 is spec'd
> for -4FW T F
>
> Time to replace it with a few NS's and a RB450/750 in better temp
> controlled
> case. To bad they do not make a RB790 with POE =)
>
>
> jp wrote:
> > I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards.
> >
> > I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either
> > use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a reputable
> > and reliable manufacturer.
> >
> > You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU
> > more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as
> > the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to
> > familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts
> > out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name
> > radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my
> > radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working full
> > time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build
> > radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote:
> >> It's 2:30 AM...
> >>
> >> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
> >> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their
> head,
> >> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like
> 25
> >> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
> >>
> >> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing
> one of
> >> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
> >> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I
> just
> >> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it,
> but I
> >> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
> >> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a
> few
> >> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
> >> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
> >>
> >> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
> >> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
> >> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a
> mini-itx
> >> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
> >>
> >> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since
> Friday,
> >> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
> >> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
> >>
> >> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site,
> used
> >> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
> >> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several
> times.
> >> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX
> board,
> >> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like
> what's
> >> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
> >> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go
> to do
> >> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said
> she'd be
> >> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the
> new
> >> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
> >>
> >> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
> >> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
> >> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up,
> drive
> >> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
> >> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
> >>
> >> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the
> parts
> >> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive
> back
> >> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally,
> I
> >> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I
> just
> >> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on
> the
> >> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I
> grab a
> >> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup
> is a
> >> few weeks old.
> >>
> >> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
> >> So, I go home, 

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[MDK]

I have several ITX based sites, none of them have any temperature related 
issues.  I believe that I had some flaky part, and I'm still not sure if 
it's a radio or the RB14.This system ran flawlessly all summer in this 
exact config, and the VIA Epia that I replaced has  been in place for at 
least 3 or 4 years.I don't think anything's wrong with it, actually. 
It's not a power supply issue, since I ran both boards directly off a 12V 
deep cycle, and the voltage is right there where it should be.

However, I am dropping the Epia's for ALIX boards. Faster, nicer form 
factor, cheaper since I don't need an ATX PS or  ram, and they seem to be 
much faster.

I have one site with 5 radios... One in the ALIX board, 4 in the RB14 
It's absolutely rock solid, never locks, crashes, or anything,.

I'm adding a second 5 radio setup to that site this week.Or maybe next 
week.   I just used up a bunch of my spare parts :(




--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:43 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

> I have RB333, 532, 433 and 411 survive without issue last winter when it 
> hit
> -10F.  Non temperature controlled environments - freezing their chips off 
> on
> water towers and towers.
>
> I'd take the suggestion provided and just use a Routerboard.  ITX is 
> decent
> but I've seen several scenarios frown upon it in cold weather (like
> carputers)?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:
>
>> MT provides a specially modified RB14 (at least they did a few years ago)
>> that handles multiple high power cards.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "jp" 
>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:17 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!
>>
>> > I don't think an rb14 can handle the power need of multiple XR cards.
>> >
>> > I'd suggest unless you have a good reason besides saving $100, either
>> > use routerboards or stick to manufactured radio systems from a 
>> > reputable
>> > and reliable manufacturer.
>> >
>> > You pay more money or give up a little flexibility, but it gives YOU
>> > more time to gain customers, sleep, etc... I love tinkering as much as
>> > the next guy, and I have a a variety of MT links, but I stick to
>> > familiar and trusted components despite the alluring variety of parts
>> > out there. Far Far outnumbering MT radios on my network are brand name
>> > radios from folks like Alvarion, Trango, and others. If I built all my
>> > radios and APs, I'd be out of business in a hurry as I'd be working 
>> > full
>> > time tinkering instead of running an ISP, or hiring staff to build
>> > radio equipment instead of installing and taking care of customers.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 03:49:59AM -0800, MDK wrote:
>> >> It's 2:30 AM...
>> >>
>> >> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After 
>> >> all,
>> >> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their
>> head,
>> >> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like
>> 25
>> >> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>> >>
>> >> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing
>> one
>> >> of
>> >> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY. 
>> >> Next
>> >> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I
>> just
>> >> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it,
>> >> but I
>> >> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
>> >> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points 
>> >> a
>> >> few
>> >> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
>> >> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>> >>
>> >> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found 
>> >> the
>> >> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too 
>> >> much
>> >> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a
>> >> mini-itx
>> >> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>> >>
>> >> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since
>> Friday,
>> >> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 
>> >> 2
>> >> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a 
>> >> problem...
>> >>
>> >> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site,
>> >> used
>> >> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
>> >> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several
>

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[RickG]

Thats right. We just need to get it back. How to do that is the real
question.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Paul C Diem  wrote:

> Rick, it seems like you've been mislead into thinking our government is
> still of the people, for the people.
>
> Paul C Diem
> pcd...@foxvalley.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
>
> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We
> need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not
> listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government
> running health care or even an "option". This includes many low wage
> earners
> I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the
> bill but where are the proponents at?
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem  wrote:
>
> > Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
> > program will do.
> >
> > Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because
> > is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I
> > have about this:
> >
> > 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
> > insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
> > enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
> > averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise
> > generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and
> > still make a great $75 billion/year?
> >
> > 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored
> > health care insurance program is to create competition in the
> > insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered
> > true competition to free enterprises in any industry?
> >
> > Paul C Diem
> > pcd...@foxvalley.net
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >
> >
> > I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of
> > liberty and not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have
> > insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high
> > which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have
> > been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital
> > because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid
> > several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely
> > the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live & kickin
> > for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any
> > government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why
> > it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend
> > of mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed.
> > Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is
> > corrected. -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
> >
> > > "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
> > > system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private
> > > healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in
> > > huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to
> > > visit the private services."
> > >
> > > That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I
> > > am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in
> > > the poor-house.
> > >
> > > I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
> > > (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them
> > > to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down
> > > on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have
> > > strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out
> > > because of the financial burden of going to the hospital.
> > >
> > > I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever
> > > those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I
> > > buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving
> > > on private forest-lands
> > on
> > > top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
> > >
> > > Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
> > > vehicles? Aren't you just as p-o-ed that you are required to "pay
> > > that extra tax" to drive your car?
> > >
> > > Again.. need more sleep, less coffee.. Sorry to rant so much...
> > >
> > > ryan
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Nathan Stooke
> > >  > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > >I worked on a programming project for one of the guys that
> > > > started WedMD yea

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Matt Jenkins]

You should post pictures of the hat!

MDK wrote:
> LOL!It really was a very warm hat.
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:58 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!
>
>   
>> Are you sure you didn't eat spicy food before bed and this was just a
>> nightmare?
>>
>> At least you got a new hat.  That's the bright side out of all this, I 
>> say.
>>
>> 
>  
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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>
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Robert West]

It's because it started out as a good idea but the ones with the cash and
who are looking to protect their slice of our cash as well as enhance it,
(Insurance companies), have been allowed to trade policy for dollars.  It
all comes down to one thing, cash.  He who has the most cash wins.  It's not
supposed to be that way but unfortunately as long as the ones who are
benefiting from all that cash are the ones who are sitting in both houses
this is what we will have.  No matter what your politics may be, dollars do
not make good policy.  We can all "Vote the bums out" but the reality is
that we only get new bums.  Until the system of cash for votes is wiped out
it will only get worse and we are seeing it escalating more and more each
year.  Tend to the issue of WHY we are stuck with this power to the dollar
and then we can work on getting it back to power to the people.  When the
Constitution is called "No longer relevant to a modern society" on the floor
of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it, "There's
your sign!"

Had to throw my 35 cents in.  

(It's no longer 2 cents, had to raise the price due to the economy.  A guy
has to eat, ya know.)

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this
particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later.

Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a
price they determine with services they see fit.  Doesn't sound like a good
idea to me...


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton  wrote:

> While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently have
> read more of it than you.


Clearly not, or else you'd know that the "fine" actually is just a tax
penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill
actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you
explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax).
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/

Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it
doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions
of Americans.

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[RickG]

Amen Brother! But, I'm not sure the new choices are much better.We need a
few good men!

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Brad Belton  wrote:

> Vote 'em out!  I'm speaking of any representative regardless of party
> affiliation that has voted for government run health care.  They clearly
> aren't listening to the people they represent.  Look closely at the
> incumbent's voting record and listen to the challenger's ideas during the
> primaries.
>
> I know I won't be voting for very many incumbents come next year and will
> be
> looking to help put representation in place that reflects ideas and values
> that I agree with.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
>
> That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable. We
> need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not
> listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government
> running health care or even an "option". This includes many low wage
> earners
> I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the
> bill but where are the proponents at?
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem  wrote:
>
> > Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
> > program will do.
> >
> > Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is
> > gets
> > me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about
> this:
> >
> > 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
> > insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
> > enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
> > averaging
> > a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
> > competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a
> great
> > $75 billion/year?
> >
> > 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
> > care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance
> industry.
> > How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free
> > enterprises in any industry?
> >
> > Paul C Diem
> > pcd...@foxvalley.net
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >
> >
> > I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty
> > and
> > not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my
> vehicles.
> > I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our
> > health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged
> not
> > to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
> > there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I
> > had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live
> &
> > kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want
> > any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is
> why
> > it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
> > mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then
> > our
> > health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
> >
> > > "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
> > > system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.
> > > If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or
> > > want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private
> > > services."
> > >
> > > That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I
> > > am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
> > > poor-house.
> > >
> > > I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
> > > (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to
> > > the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on
> > > someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to
> > > a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the
> > > financial burden of going to the
> > > hospital.
> > >
> > > I am more than happy to pay for "extra" medical services. Whatever
> > > those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy
> > > extra insurance
> > > riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands
> > on
> > > top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle.
> > >
> > > Why are we not having a discussion regarding required insurance for
> > > vehicles? Aren

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[RickG]

There really should not be government assistance. But then back to reality,
it is here and will probably always will be. In that case, I agree that IF
you are taking government assistance in any form it should require an
exchange of strict rules that promote proper personal responsibility. It
also should be very limited in time and dollars. In the application to
health care, IF you get assistance then they start looking at your life
style, etc. IF you dont take assistance - get outta my face and my
pocketbook!

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:14 AM,  wrote:

> Maybe government has to be the answer if we're going to address the problem
> of the vast number of people who could afford insurance but choose to spend
> their money elsewhere. It's going to require the government forcing them to
> buy insurance or pay some tax that is used to fund health insurance.
>
> On the inside of the system - hospitals and insurance companies etc: Greed
> and stupidity are the two root causes of waste in any enterprise. The
> problem now is either people are profiting from the "waste" or they're too
> immoral to care or to stupid to notice. Even if the government or private
> industry itself massively overhauls healthcare there will still be the same
> problems if it's still the same people involved. It's like taking a crappy
> football team and trying to fix the problem with new uniforms. If in the
> healthcare reform heads will roll then it stands a chance of working, but I
> don't think anyone is talking about that.
>
> Greg
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:17 AM, RickG wrote:
>
> > That's right - government cant be the answer. Your questions are viable.
> We
> > need to speak up and many have but unfortunately either they are not
> > listening or dont care. I've not found anyone that wants the government
> > running health care or even an "option". This includes many low wage
> earners
> > I am acquainted with. So, I know where the people are who are against the
> > bill but where are the proponents at?
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Paul C Diem 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded
> >> program will do.
> >>
> >> Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is
> >> gets
> >> me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about
> this:
> >>
> >> 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the
> >> insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free
> >> enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is
> >> averaging
> >> a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a
> >> competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a
> great
> >> $75 billion/year?
> >>
> >> 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health
> >> care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance
> industry.
> >> How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to
> free
> >> enterprises in any industry?
> >>
> >> Paul C Diem
> >> pcd...@foxvalley.net
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of RickG
> >> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance
> >>
> >>
> >> I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty
> >> and
> >> not that it's an "extra tax". Either way I'd have insurance on my
> vehicles.
> >> I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons
> our
> >> health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged
> not
> >> to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up
> >> there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was.
> I
> >> had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here
> live &
> >> kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont
> want
> >> any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is
> why
> >> it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of
> >> mine used to say "follow the dollar". Thats what needs to be fixed. Then
> >> our
> >> health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected.
> >> -RickG
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott  wrote:
> >>
> >>> "My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care
> >>> system.  One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare.
> >>> If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or
> >>> want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private
> >>> services."
> >>>
> >>> That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I
> >>> am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the
> >>> poor-house.
> >>>
> >>> I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients
> >>> (so

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Paul C Diem]

"When the Constitution is called "No longer relevant to a modern society" on
the floor of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it"

As I said before, I've stopped paying too much attention to the news. Did
that really happen? If so, I believe the real problem is that there was no
uproar from we the people over it.

Paul C Diem
pcd...@foxvalley.net 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


It's because it started out as a good idea but the ones with the cash and
who are looking to protect their slice of our cash as well as enhance it,
(Insurance companies), have been allowed to trade policy for dollars.  It
all comes down to one thing, cash.  He who has the most cash wins.  It's not
supposed to be that way but unfortunately as long as the ones who are
benefiting from all that cash are the ones who are sitting in both houses
this is what we will have.  No matter what your politics may be, dollars do
not make good policy.  We can all "Vote the bums out" but the reality is
that we only get new bums.  Until the system of cash for votes is wiped out
it will only get worse and we are seeing it escalating more and more each
year.  Tend to the issue of WHY we are stuck with this power to the dollar
and then we can work on getting it back to power to the people.  When the
Constitution is called "No longer relevant to a modern society" on the floor
of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it, "There's
your sign!"

Had to throw my 35 cents in.  

(It's no longer 2 cents, had to raise the price due to the economy.  A guy
has to eat, ya know.)

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this
particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later.

Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a
price they determine with services they see fit.  Doesn't sound like a good
idea to me...


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton  wrote:

> While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently 
> have read more of it than you.


Clearly not, or else you'd know that the "fine" actually is just a tax
penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill
actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you
explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax).
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/

Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it
doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions
of Americans.

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

[Alan Long]

All the configs were fine after reboot. I do have the latest firmware on all
of them. I even reloaded the firmware on a few of them and still had them
lock up. Since going to router in front of them, they are working ok.


Aerowire
Alan Long
Director of Network Operations
alan.l...@aerowire.net
687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830
tel: 3342759998
mobile: 336092


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi

If you can't see the 2.4 spectrum then the device simply locked up.  What is
causing it sounds like a bug to me.  One simple broadcast packet nails
several of the radios and "freaks them out".  Do you have the latest
firmware for them?  In the past these radios would lose their config if they
had to switch modes (that is, if the default mode out of the box is bridge
you will lose the config - if the default mode out of the box is AP you're
safe).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Long  wrote:

> Can't connect via wifi or Ethernet, can't see it via 2.4. I have the
> sniffer
> going now.
>
> 
> Aerowire
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
> alan.l...@aerowire.net
> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
> tel: 3342759998
> mobile: 336092
> 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:38 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Engenius 3610 indoor ap losing etehrnet and wifi
>
> When you say "no wifi" does that mean you can not connect to the AP or
that
> your laptop doesn't see the AP broadcasting in 2.4?
>
> I would have to guess packet storm as well.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Scott Reed
> wrote:
>
> > Broadcast storm?
> >
> > Alan Long wrote:
> > > I have a site where we deployed approx 45 engenius indoor 3610
deployed
> > in
> > > 26 buildings. They are all in ap mode only and have a hardwire
> connection
> > > back to my main outbound internet gateway. They are all on the same
> > subnet
> > > for management, and the users are on different subnet for their access
> > out.
> > > Just all layer 2 between them and the gateway, with no vlans. The
> Tuesday
> > > before Thanksgiving we had almost all the radios to go down, had no
> wifi
> > nor
> > > Ethernet. We rebooted all units and they came right back up and worked
> > for
> > > several days and then same issue. I have since put each building with
a
> > > router between the radios and my gateway and have only had a few
lockup
> > > since that time. Anyone have any ideas on what may be causing these
> > issues?
> > > I have one of the units at my office, hooked on the network and can't
> get
> > it
> > > to lock up, and it was one of the units that locked up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan Long
> > > Director of Network Operations
> > >
> > > Aerowire
> > >
> > > <
> >
>
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=687+North+Dean+Road&csz=Aubu
> > > rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> > > Auburn, AL 36830
> > >
> > >
> > >   alan.l...@aerowire.net
> > >
> > >
> > > tel:
> > > mobile:
> > >
> > >
> > > <
> >
>
http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3342759998&E
> > > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
> > >
> > > <
> >
>
http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=336092&E
> > > mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <
> >
>
https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=30065206883&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&i
> > > nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> > >
> > >  
> Want
> > a
> > > signature like this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

LOL  I do have a pick but fortunately I can't seem to find it right now.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Broadwick" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> That made me smile Robert.  Thank you for that!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!
>
> Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!
>
> First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved
> shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.
>
> I wear thick blue jeans.
>
> Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the 
> Carharts
>
> are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.
>
> If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over
> the top of all of that.
>
> I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet.
> I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.
>
> For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version.
> Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the
> fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and
> are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger
> on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts
> anyway.
>
> Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't
> work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely
> tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are 
> at.
> The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do
> amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.
>
> Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an
> artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes,
> use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.
>
> I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't 
> trust
>
> anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or 
> has
> been sitting for a while.
>
> Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes 
> when
>
> doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all 
> of
>
> the time).
>
> For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got
> flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a
> hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker 
> version
> of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull
> over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten 
> older
> it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and
> windy.
>
> Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not 
> mission
>
> critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until
> things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The
> cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars
> don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out
> here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they
> understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders 
> blow
>
> over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily
> managed with cold water and slow movement
>
> Hope that helps,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Robert West" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:07 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
>
>> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and
>> my
>> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>>
>> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and
>> usually
>> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty
>> much
>> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>>
>> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>>
>> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands
>> at
>> the same time.
>>
>> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob-
>

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Jeff Broadwick]

I hesitate to jump into this, but this particular issue had to do with what
would happen if you didn't pay the "fine" for not having insurance.  It is
really just a tax, and the IRS considers non-payment the same as tax
fraud...thus the potential of jail time.  A Congressman sent a letter to the
IRS and they verified it. 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this
particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later.

Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a
price they determine with services they see fit.  Doesn't sound like a good
idea to me...


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton  wrote:

> While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently 
> have read more of it than you.


Clearly not, or else you'd know that the "fine" actually is just a tax
penalty, and that the current draft of the Senate Finance Committee bill
actually includes an explicit provision saying the exact opposite (i.e. you
explicitly cannot be jailed for failure to pay this specific tax).
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/11/imprisoned-for-not-having-health-care/

Don't get me wrong, the bill still is a travesty, but that's because it
doesn't go far enough in providing effective health care to tens of millions
of Americans.

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

h

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SJ5S43VGz5Q/StJenrWlLxI/FzI/b4UybsR59aw/s400/blanket+coat+2.jpg

http://www.gerbing.com/coreheat.net/Products/Products.html

Let me know how any of that works!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> You're welcome.  I've already envisioned PoE powered socks and gloves as
> well.  Just install a switch inside the lining of your coat and one cable
> controls all.  Make it IP based and you can monitor and control the temps 
> as
> "Zones" with the your iPhone or Blackberry.  "Feet Cold?  We have an App 
> for
> that!"
>
> Sadly, you want one, you know you do.  Yet, it is only the fantasy male
> geeks everywhere.
>
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> That made me smile Robert.  Thank you for that!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!
>
> Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!
>
> First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved
> shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.
>
> I wear thick blue jeans.
>
> Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the 
> Carharts
>
> are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.
>
> If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over
> the top of all of that.
>
> I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet.
> I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.
>
> For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version.
> Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the
> fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and
> are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger
> on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts
> anyway.
>
> Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't
> work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely
> tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are 
> at.
> The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do
> amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.
>
> Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an
> artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes,
> use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.
>
> I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't 
> trust
>
> anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or 
> has
> been sitting for a while.
>
> Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes 
> when
>
> doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all 
> of
>
> the time).
>
> For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got
> flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a
> hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker 
> version
> of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull
> over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten 
> older
> it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and
> windy.
>
> Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not 
> mission
>
> critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until
> things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The
> cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars
> don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out
> here it usually warms up in a week or so, people hate it, but they
> understand.  I also tend to not work when it gets really windy (ladders 
> blow
>
> over etc.).  I don't shut down for high heat, that can be more easily
> managed with cold water and slow movement
>
> Hope that helps,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 

Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Out here our lineman keeps a rope ladder in his bucket in case that happens.

Won't catch me climbing out of one.  I'll freeze to death first!  shudder
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] One long @#$%& day!


> Praying for ya! I can identify as many here can and we feel your pain. 
> Below
> freezing weather really sucks. I had several sessions like that last year.
> One time, I had to borrow a friends bucket and it was full of water and
> wouldnt drain. So I was in the ice cube filled bucket up to my knees for
> about 3 hours. Not sure how I made it. The next time, the bucket was 
> drained
> OK but the hydralics had a leak and would let me down. Thats when the snow
> storm hit. After waiting for help about an hour, I decided to jump to the
> rusty silo ladder about 5 feet away. I vowed to prepare for this winter.
> Time will tell. Hang in there buddy! -RickG
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:49 AM, MDK  wrote:
>
>> It's 2:30 AM...
>>
>> I just drove up to the house, and walked VERY fast inside.   After all,
>> weather.com says that it's 12 degrees and an 8 MPH wind.   In their head,
>> maybe.Outside of the little valley I live in, the wind's more like 25
>> mph.   There's no snow on the ground.
>>
>> I don't make a habit of staying up late,  but last night, I was doing one
>> of
>> those "let's just have some fun" looking around sessions on EBAY.   Next
>> thing I knew, it was nearly 3AM.   Without shutting anything down, I just
>> crawled into bed.   At 8:45 my cell phone rang...  I didn't answer it, 
>> but
>> I
>> did get up.  Looked at my computer and Peer Monitor says... nothing is
>> connected.Now, I have had some issues with one of the dist points a 
>> few
>> miles outside of town.It had randomly locked up 3 times last week.
>> Each time, I thought I had found the problem and not worried about it.
>>
>> The first time for instance, it was extremely dense fog, and I found the
>> ventilation fan running in the box.   Thinking I had sucked in too much
>> damp, I just shut it off and rebooted.   The locked up system is a 
>> mini-itx
>> board and RB 14 adapter card W/4 radios...
>>
>> Obviously, I was wrong.   Something was wrong.   It had run since Friday,
>> but now it's Sun AM and PM says I've been off for 3 hours.   It's died 2
>> other times since the fog incident, so... Houston, we have a problem...
>>
>> I quick yanked on some clothes and drove up the mountain to the site, 
>> used
>> the step ladder to get to the box lid and looked in.  Restarted and
>> everything went off just fine. But, it's now done this several times.
>> And that's not good or right.   I look in the van.   Spare mini-ITX 
>> board,
>> licensed.   Spare RB14, 2 spare radios, including an XR5, just like 
>> what's
>> up there.Anyway, morning zips by, and I have an appointment in the
>> afternoon to switch a family friend's computer out for her.   So, I go to
>> do
>> that and she's not home.   That's odd.  I could have sworn she said she'd
>> be
>> there at 2...   I wanted to be home, nice and warm and setting up the new
>> board so I could change in in daylight tomorrow.
>>
>> So, I go to the workshop and do some stuff I've been putting off and ...
>> fall asleep, waiting for an OS install to finish.   When I wake up, it's
>> after 5.   Must have slept at least 15 min... Sheesh.   So, I get up, 
>> drive
>> over to house, start the project.   30 min later, my phone beeps.   Text
>> message...  Site's down.ARRRGGH.
>>
>> 25 minute drive to the site and I reboot it.Go home, pull out the 
>> parts
>> and start to assemble the whole thing.   It goes down again .   Drive 
>> back
>> up, restart.   This time, nothing will coax it into running.   Finally, I
>> pull everything out, and take it home.   Now the phone's going nuts.  I
>> just
>> put 60 customers down.   I take it home, cause it's COLD out there on the
>> hillside... and everything runs flawlessly.   Just to be judicious, I 
>> grab
>> a
>> config backup off of it, 'cause it's changed lately and my last backup is 
>> a
>> few weeks old.
>>
>> I haul it up the mountain, put it back in place... No run.
>> So, I go home, grab the spare mini-itx, use the backup config and haul it
>> up
>> the mountain.
>>
>> Won't boot.  Doesn't even beep.Power comes on, but no beep.
>>
>> Haul it down the mountain, back home (this is .7 miles of rocky pasture I
>> drive through at idle in 1st gear, then 5 miles of paved road.  Takes 20
>> min
>> round trip) with all the parts.   Runs flawlessly. Haul it back up 
>> the
>> mountain, plug it in, boots, but locks 5 to 60 seconds after booting.
>>
>> Inspect EVERYTHING (it's dark, so had to do it all by flashlight) again.
>> I
>> see nothing.   So, I grab the spare RB14, switch the radios over and plug
>> it
>> in.   Boots.   Lights flash.   Fire up the laptop and no.  It's not
>> working.
>> log in through

Re: [WISPA] health insurance

[Robert West]

Man, way, way, way off topic on this list but as risk of adding more to it,
here goes...

October 3, 2002.  Chairman Henry Hyde was quoted on the record and live on
C-Span as saying.

"There are things in the Constitution that have been overtaken by events, by
time. Declaration of war is one of them.There are things no longer relevant
to a modern society.Why declare war if you don't have to?.We are saying to
the President, use your judgment.So, to demand that we declare war is to
strengthen something to death. You have got a hammerlock on this situation,
and it is not called for. Inappropriate, anachronistic, it isn't done
anymore.."

Right or wrong since it was about declaring war on Iraq, it speaks volumes
of how bad the mentality is getting.  

I ask, what part of

"I, _, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the
Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same..."

.is no longer relevant? 

"They" have chipped away at it to where the Constitution is only lip
service, regarded as something akin to "The Force" in Star Wars to be made
fun of and anyone who mentions it in a serious way is considered a wacko
extremist.  "They" being the people and organizations who find the
protections that we are given in the Constitution to be inconvenient to
their agenda and "They" will do whatever and say whatever to discredit what
is inconvenient until it becomes the norm and our basic rights and
protections are tossed to the side like my daughter used to go through
boyfriends.  

When we hear a major member of the House declare that the Constitution is no
longer relevant and you see United States Border Patrol agents NOT on the
border where they belong but stopping vehicles well within the borders for
"Inspection", again, There's you sign".

That will be another 35 cents, please.

Thanks.






-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Paul C Diem
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:26 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

"When the Constitution is called "No longer relevant to a modern society" on
the floor of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it"

As I said before, I've stopped paying too much attention to the news. Did
that really happen? If so, I believe the real problem is that there was no
uproar from we the people over it.

Paul C Diem
pcd...@foxvalley.net 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:07 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance


It's because it started out as a good idea but the ones with the cash and
who are looking to protect their slice of our cash as well as enhance it,
(Insurance companies), have been allowed to trade policy for dollars.  It
all comes down to one thing, cash.  He who has the most cash wins.  It's not
supposed to be that way but unfortunately as long as the ones who are
benefiting from all that cash are the ones who are sitting in both houses
this is what we will have.  No matter what your politics may be, dollars do
not make good policy.  We can all "Vote the bums out" but the reality is
that we only get new bums.  Until the system of cash for votes is wiped out
it will only get worse and we are seeing it escalating more and more each
year.  Tend to the issue of WHY we are stuck with this power to the dollar
and then we can work on getting it back to power to the people.  When the
Constitution is called "No longer relevant to a modern society" on the floor
of the House of Representatives and there is no uproar over it, "There's
your sign!"

Had to throw my 35 cents in.  

(It's no longer 2 cents, had to raise the price due to the economy.  A guy
has to eat, ya know.)

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 2:48 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

If the current draft now says you can't be jailed for not paying this
particular tax/fine then ok, but that's not the way it was written earlier.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is flipped back...sooner or later.

Regardless, the government is forcing you to buy something from them at a
price they determine with services they see fit.  Doesn't sound like a good
idea to me...


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:57, Brad Belton  wrote:

> While I haven't read the entire 2000+ page proposed bill I apparently 
> have read more of it than you.


Clearly not, or else you'd know that the "fine"

Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Robert West]

Marlon!  You got your got your hair cut!  Looks good on ya!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

h

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SJ5S43VGz5Q/StJenrWlLxI/FzI/b4UybsR59aw/s4
00/blanket+coat+2.jpg

http://www.gerbing.com/coreheat.net/Products/Products.html

Let me know how any of that works!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Robert West" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!


> You're welcome.  I've already envisioned PoE powered socks and gloves as
> well.  Just install a switch inside the lining of your coat and one cable
> controls all.  Make it IP based and you can monitor and control the temps 
> as
> "Zones" with the your iPhone or Blackberry.  "Feet Cold?  We have an App 
> for
> that!"
>
> Sadly, you want one, you know you do.  Yet, it is only the fantasy male
> geeks everywhere.
>
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:22 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> That made me smile Robert.  Thank you for that!
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ImageStream
> 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
> +1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:13 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> Thanks, Marlon.  You have any picture of you in all that?!
>
> Do they make a heated coat that can work off PoE?  Just askin'
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:28 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!
>
> It's 10* here right now.  Gotta love it!
>
> First, LAYERS  If I know I'll be outside I start with a long sleeved
> shirt.  Usually something like longjohns.
>
> I wear thick blue jeans.
>
> Next go the Carharts.  Not a pair of knockoffs.  I've got both, the 
> Carharts
>
> are the only way to go.  Much much warmer.
>
> If it's really cold, I've got a HUGE thick winter coat that I'll put over
> the top of all of that.
>
> I wear good, fleece lined snow boots.  Rubber ones so they do NOT get wet.
> I do NOT tuck in the pants, they stay outside to keep the snow out.
>
> For gloves I have a couple of pairs.  One factory one my own version.
> Basically they are both fairly thin dirtbiking or sports gloves.  Cut the
> fingers out at the second knuckle.  The factory ones fit a bit tighter and
> are easier to work with.  On my own ones I leave the pinky and 3rd finger
> on, can't do much with them when working with small nuts and bolts
> anyway.
>
> Use hand and foot warmers!  I buy them by the case every year (they don't
> work as well the second year anyway, even though still sealed).  Loosely
> tape a warmer on each wrist.  On the underneath where your arteries are 
> at.
> The colder it is, the bigger the hand warmer you can use.  That will do
> amazing things when it comes to keeping your hands warm!  Honest.
>
> Keep a large hand warmer in your front pants pockets.  That's also near an
> artery and will help keep your feet warm.  If there is room in your shoes,
> use foot warmers there too.  Modern technology can be quite helpful.
>
> I've thought of picking up some of those new heated coats, but I don't 
> trust
>
> anything with batteries to be there for me when it's really cold and/or 
> has
> been sitting for a while.
>
> Oh yeah, sometimes I wear 2 or 3 pairs of socks (gotta use bigger shoes 
> when
>
> doing this and that can cause a safety issue when you don't wear them all 
> of
>
> the time).
>
> For a hat I have a fleece lined all cloth one that I can tie on.  It's got
> flaps that completely cover my ears.  If it gets really nasty I'll slip a
> hand warmer or two in it as well.  I'd love to find an even thicker 
> version
> of it but haven't come up with one yet.  I will also probably get a pull
> over ski mask one day.  The kind you see crooks wear.  As I've gotten 
> older
> it's harder to keep my skin from getting wind burnt when it's cold and
> windy.
>
> Lastly but most importantly, LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!!!  If it's not 
> mission
>
> critical stay inside.  Or at least keep your shifts outside short until
> things warm up.  When it gets below 10* out here I don't do installs.  The
> cat5 jackets crack at about 0* if you bend them much.  The drills and cars
> don't like to run well etc.  It's just much too hard on everything.  Out
> here it usually warms up in a week or so, peop

Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Jeremy Parr]

2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer :
> If it were me?
>
> Toss em and start over.
>
> Not worth the trouble.  Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it.
> marlon

He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be
good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to
toss em.



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Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Robert West]

That's my thinking as well.  What's the worst I could do?  Flames could be
involved but I don't foresee that in this case.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Parr
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer :
> If it were me?
>
> Toss em and start over.
>
> Not worth the trouble.  Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it.
> marlon

He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be
good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to
toss em.




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Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Mike]

I read black stuff, not corrosion.  If they are silver connectors, 
then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem.

In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver 
connectors.  Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin 
oils on it, so will a silver connector.  Neither of them is hurt by the patina.

Mike

At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer :
> > If it were me?
> >
> > Toss em and start over.
> >
> > Not worth the trouble.  Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it.
> > marlon
>
>He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be
>good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to
>toss em.
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
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>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

[Robert West]

I never would have guessed silver though.  Someone mentioned that earlier
too.  At first it looked like rubber tape residue but it had me scratching
me head since boy never put any cables on them.  Makes perfect sense though.
They will probably be okay, I just didn't want to attack them with the steel
wool or whatever and screw up what seem to be very nice sectors.  

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cleaning N Connectors

I read black stuff, not corrosion.  If they are silver connectors, 
then it's silver oxide and NOT a problem.

In the old days all, and now only the best equipment still use silver 
connectors.  Just like an old dime will turn black once it has skin 
oils on it, so will a silver connector.  Neither of them is hurt by the
patina.

Mike

At 03:29 PM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>2009/12/7 Marlon K. Schafer :
> > If it were me?
> >
> > Toss em and start over.
> >
> > Not worth the trouble.  Once corrosion starts it's hard to stop it.
> > marlon
>
>He could always solder new N connectors to the antenna element, and be
>good as new. The Andrew sectors are a good unit, it'd be a shame to
>toss em.
>
>
>---
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Re: [WISPA] It's too darn cold!

[Curtis Maurand]

LL Bean.


Mike wrote:
> Thinsulate is good and light.  Redwing has some insulated lace up 
> boots with Thinsulate.  They have fiberglass shanks and fiberglass 
> toes instead of steel -- supposed to be safer for electricians.
>
> I think the Wrangler jeans with Thinsulate in them are awesome.  It's 
> warmer than long johns and regular jeans.
>
> Wool socks, with a silk under sock is the answer for warm feet.  Some 
> people just use thin tight socks as the first layer, but the two 
> layers is the answer.
>
> Thinsulate gloves are the best going.  A pair of tight goatskin or 
> deer skin gloves will give you some dexterity.  Use a larger pair of 
> gloves with Thinsulate in them over them when you don't need the dexterity.
>
> I don't mind the cold.  Wind and wind blown snow are my bane.
>
> Mike
>
> At 01:07 AM 12/7/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> It's cold.  I spent all day and most of the night working on a tower and my
>> feet are frozen.  Time for new boots and the rest of the winter
>> gear..  Anyone have winter gear that they swear by and not AT?
>>
>> I use steel toed boots (lesson learned the hard and painful way) and usually
>> buy whatever looks good, clothing wise, from TSC.  Everything is pretty much
>> worn out, time for crap to keep me warm.
>>
>> Ideas so that I don't freeze to death?
>>
>> And gloves!  Man, I never have found gloves I could wear AND use my hands at
>> the same time.
>>
>> So as usual  Who loves what and who hates what?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> 
>
>
>
>
> 
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>   




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