RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
A clone? God forbid. My wife would not tolerate it, much less anyone else. BTW, I did not post that to the Moto list though, out of competitive respect. It was just a really interesting and l o n g list and I thought it would be interesting, if only for me, to give a shot answering it from a VL perspective (they were all Moto questions) and comparing, if only to myself. I did get a few private responses from the WISP post and I am getting to them. P.S. - I am more persistent than aggressive...well, maybe a bit of both. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... I've seen you on the MOTO list in the past :) Your a real trooper. Wish there were some unemployed Patrick Leary clones around. WOW, could you imaging what a Patrick Leary clone could do for your business. Yikes, talk about agressive... Patrick Leary wrote: > Correct. I did not post it to the Moto list, though that is where the > questions originated. > > Patrick Leary > AVP WISP Markets > Alvarion, Inc. > o: 650.314.2628 > c: 760.580.0080 > Vonage: 650.641.1243 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:16 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... > > It was forwarded to the general wisp list. > > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:55 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... > > >> How did you get the thread then? >> >> Lonnie >> >> On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I"m not on that list. >>> sorry, >>> marlon >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... >>> >>> >>> Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Patrick >>> >>> >>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>> >>>> I found this thread interesting. >>>> >>>> Enjoy, >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, > 2007 >>>> 5:51 >>>> PM >>>> Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... >>>> >>>> >>>> So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions > about >>>> Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer > them >>> >from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get > some >>>> use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: >>>> 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? >>>> >>>> No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e > >>>> used. >>>> Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices > (God >>>> forbid!) >>>> >>>> How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would > a SA >>>> show the channel width to be? >>>> >>>> Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE > >>>> will >>>> adjust automatically. >>>> >>>> What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation > without >>>> reflector, with? >>>> >>>> The CPE with VL comes with an integrated anten
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
I've seen you on the MOTO list in the past :) Your a real trooper. Wish there were some unemployed Patrick Leary clones around. WOW, could you imaging what a Patrick Leary clone could do for your business. Yikes, talk about agressive... Patrick Leary wrote: Correct. I did not post it to the Moto list, though that is where the questions originated. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... It was forwarded to the general wisp list. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... How did you get the thread then? Lonnie On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I"m not on that list. sorry, marlon - Original Message - From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? Thanks. Patrick Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I found this thread interesting. Enjoy, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them >from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used. Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God forbid!) How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA show the channel width to be? Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will adjust automatically. What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without reflector, with? The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5 miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 miles. Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist in the network development of Canopy products? There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of opportunity for direct consultation. Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can you mix breeds of SM on the AP? VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with trees, but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a lower rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you wish. All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its limit. Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the radio's ability to co-locate? The CPE
RE: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Correct. I did not post it to the Moto list, though that is where the questions originated. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... It was forwarded to the general wisp list. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... > How did you get the thread then? > > Lonnie > > On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I"m not on that list. >> sorry, >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... >> >> >> Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? >> Thanks. >> >> Patrick >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> >> >I found this thread interesting. >> > >> >Enjoy, >> >marlon >> > >> >- Original Message - >> >From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 >> >5:51 >> >PM >> >Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... >> > >> > >> >So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about >> >Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them >> >from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some >> >use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. >> > >> > >> > >> >Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: >> >760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? >> > >> > No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e >> > used. >> > Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God >> > forbid!) >> > >> > How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA >> > show the channel width to be? >> > >> > Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE >> > will >> > adjust automatically. >> > >> > What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without >> > reflector, with? >> > >> > The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the >> > VL >> > to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at >> > 5 >> > miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your >> > Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure >> > produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o >> > reflector >> > is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a >> > reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 >> > miles. >> > >> > Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to >> > assist >> > in the network development of Canopy products? >> > >> > There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty >> > of >> > opportunity for direct consultation. >> > >> > Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? >> > >> > In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which >> > include >> > QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the >> > box >> > (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) >> > >> > Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that >> > allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? >> > Can >> > you mix breeds of SM on the AP? >> > &g
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
It was forwarded to the general wisp list. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... How did you get the thread then? Lonnie On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I"m not on that list. sorry, marlon - Original Message - From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? Thanks. Patrick Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >I found this thread interesting. > >Enjoy, >marlon > >- Original Message - >From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 >5:51 >PM >Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... > > >So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about >Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them >from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some >use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. > > > >Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: >760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? > > No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e > used. > Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God > forbid!) > > How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA > show the channel width to be? > > Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE > will > adjust automatically. > > What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without > reflector, with? > > The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the > VL > to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at > 5 > miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your > Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure > produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o > reflector > is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a > reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 > miles. > > Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to > assist > in the network development of Canopy products? > > There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty > of > opportunity for direct consultation. > > Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? > > In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which > include > QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the > box > (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) > > Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that > allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? > Can > you mix breeds of SM on the AP? > > VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with > trees, > but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates > (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a > lower > rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you > wish. > All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. > > Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? > > In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. > > Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? > > Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per > subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its > limit. > > Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the > radio's ability to co-locate? > > The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be > either > H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of > antenna > choice). > > Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)? > > N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with > the > optional "WLP&qu
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
How did you get the thread then? Lonnie On 3/11/07, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I"m not on that list. sorry, marlon - Original Message - From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? Thanks. Patrick Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >I found this thread interesting. > >Enjoy, >marlon > >- Original Message - >From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 >PM >Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... > > >So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about >Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them >from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some >use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. > > > >Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: >760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? > > No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used. > Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God > forbid!) > > How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA > show the channel width to be? > > Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will > adjust automatically. > > What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without > reflector, with? > > The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL > to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5 > miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your > Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure > produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector > is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a > reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 > miles. > > Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist > in the network development of Canopy products? > > There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of > opportunity for direct consultation. > > Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? > > In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include > QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box > (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) > > Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that > allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can > you mix breeds of SM on the AP? > > VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with trees, > but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates > (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a lower > rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you wish. > All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. > > Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? > > In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. > > Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? > > Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per > subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its > limit. > > Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the > radio's ability to co-locate? > > The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be either > H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of antenna > choice). > > Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)? > > N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with the > optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is stable at > 4 or less ms. > > > What is the maximum PPS per AP? > > Up to about 6 downstream and 48000 upstream. > > Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an end-user > launching a DoS attack? > > Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically > because of this threat. > > How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist > this? > > Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288 > CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better than > 4.0. With the WLP featu
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Doug, I didn't notice anyone answering your question, though I might have missed it. Alvarion offers a version of the VL AU that is limited to 25 simultaneous associations. The Comnet price is under $2,000 iirc. It is license key upgradeable to the "unlimited" version if a particular sector grows beyond 25 users. It makes new sites/new sectors much more practical than it was when the only option was the "unlimited" version. For what it's worth, if you need an Alvarion Comnet distributor, I couldn't be more happy working with ACC/Wireless Connections (general email contact is [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and recommend them highly. I hope that helps. In terms of your final question, you probably can't use this type of equipment on a live AM tower, but I don't see why a non-live tower would matter as long as you pay attention to grounding. However, I'm not an expert here...Mike Cowan, Bob Moldashell, etc. (amongst several others on this list) can give an authoritative answer if they notice the question. If they don't notice it, you might send them an email directly (if you don't have contact info, drop me a private note). Chuck PS: I've got no connection to any vendor other than as a customer. At 3:25 PM -0500 3/10/07, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I'm sold. Anyone wanna buy me some? COMNET has nice pricing on CPE's, but are there any discounts on the AU's? There's so many parts it seems between the blade chassis and that, I don't even know what parts that I'd need to order. Also, I was concerned with the blade chassis that 200' of LMR400 would be too lossy to be useful - or does this have some kind of low frequency IF signalling that's used on the cable itself? Some equipment I've noticed uses a much lower frequency up the tower that even LMR175 could be used. Can I use this on an non-live, unipole, AM radio tower? Thanks -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
I"m not on that list. sorry, marlon - Original Message - From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? Thanks. Patrick Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I found this thread interesting. Enjoy, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used. Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God forbid!) How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA show the channel width to be? Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will adjust automatically. What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without reflector, with? The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5 miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 miles. Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist in the network development of Canopy products? There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of opportunity for direct consultation. Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can you mix breeds of SM on the AP? VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with trees, but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a lower rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you wish. All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its limit. Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the radio's ability to co-locate? The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be either H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of antenna choice). Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)? N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with the optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is stable at 4 or less ms. What is the maximum PPS per AP? Up to about 6 downstream and 48000 upstream. Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an end-user launching a DoS attack? Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically because of this threat. How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist this? Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288 CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better than 4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1 and many tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also run tons of concurrent data. The graphs show this too. What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can handle? VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically prioritize VoIP over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just dedicating a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the same time, VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of l
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Could you forward along the Motorola thread as well for comparison? Thanks. Patrick Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I found this thread interesting. Enjoy, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used. Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God forbid!) How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA show the channel width to be? Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will adjust automatically. What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without reflector, with? The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5 miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 miles. Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist in the network development of Canopy products? There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of opportunity for direct consultation. Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can you mix breeds of SM on the AP? VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with trees, but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a lower rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you wish. All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its limit. Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the radio's ability to co-locate? The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be either H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of antenna choice). Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)? N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with the optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is stable at 4 or less ms. What is the maximum PPS per AP? Up to about 6 downstream and 48000 upstream. Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an end-user launching a DoS attack? Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically because of this threat. How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist this? Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288 CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better than 4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1 and many tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also run tons of concurrent data. The graphs show this too. What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can handle? VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically prioritize VoIP over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just dedicating a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the same time, VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of low priority traffic. Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP? We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our implementation. Are the SMs SNMP capable, or only the data from a SM through the AP? Yes, if set to be one of the management consoles. What improvements over the curren
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Patrick would be able to provide you with more/better info. But here is a quick rundown. On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 15:25 -0500, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > I'm sold. Anyone wanna buy me some? COMNET has nice pricing on CPE's, but > are there any discounts on the AU's? I believe there are two versions of the AU available (the lower end one is software upgradeable) > There's so many parts it seems between > the blade chassis and that, I don't even know what parts that I'd need to > order. The blade Chassis is for power, you can also buy individual power bricks for the AUs. The chassis provides the benifit of redundant power to each IDU. and a clean install. the Chassis will also work with other types of Alvarion AUs, I believe. > > Also, I was concerned with the blade chassis that 200' of LMR400 would be > too lossy to be useful - or does this have some kind of low frequency IF > signalling that's used on the cable itself? Some equipment I've noticed > uses a much lower frequency up the tower that even LMR175 could be used. Its cat5 from the chassis to the AU, the chassis is just for power. > > Can I use this on an non-live, unipole, AM radio tower? > > Thanks Your welcome, Ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
Impressive list of Q&A. Not an issue, but I think the Questioner was asking about a different topic than the answerer was thinking of on one question. I added the "Q" & "A" to make it clear: >Q Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP? >A We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our >implementation. I believe the questioner was thinking about a recent thread regarding Canopy where a couple wisps surprising observations were being discussed relative to the product's recent major OS replacement release by Motorola (Release 8). In the thread someone observed that his network traffic appeared to "slow down" when his network management application began polling radios by SNMP. Continuous ping window times climbed in curious coincidence with network manager performance polling. That's why from the langugage (and mention of SNMP) I don't think he was referring to polling as a means of bandwidth allocation between APs & SMs. Changing OS (and consequently stacks) is a significant change. There was a previous list of Canopy problems attributable to the OS communications stacks that could not be addressed because the license for the stacks did not provide source to the Canopy developers. Ultimately a change to a different OS & license (where all communications stacks were provided with source) was needed so that the developers had the means to work on problems that had been long unaddressed. Motorola beta tested this Release 8 longer than typical because of the major impact such a change could potentially create. However, it was eventually released (very recently), and some strange stack behaviors have begun to be noticed. If I'm interpreting correctly this is a very "different" question, indeed. It likely has to do with how APs and BH units prioritize responding to management communications over customer traffic. It might even involve issue with the number of threads the OS can support. The questioner is simply wondering if others have noticed "known problems" with SNMP polling of APs. Canopy may have some issue, which could be significant to a wisp if he's become reliant upon network performance monitoring (which is a good thing IMO). Rich - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... I found this thread interesting. Enjoy, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used. Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God forbid!) How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA show the channel width to be? Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will adjust automatically. What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without reflector, with? The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5 miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 miles. Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist in the network development of Canopy products? There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of opportunity for direct consultation. Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can you mix breeds of SM on the AP? VL uses OFDM, which giv
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
I'm sold. Anyone wanna buy me some? COMNET has nice pricing on CPE's, but are there any discounts on the AU's? There's so many parts it seems between the blade chassis and that, I don't even know what parts that I'd need to order. Also, I was concerned with the blade chassis that 200' of LMR400 would be too lossy to be useful - or does this have some kind of low frequency IF signalling that's used on the cable itself? Some equipment I've noticed uses a much lower frequency up the tower that even LMR175 could be used. Can I use this on an non-live, unipole, AM radio tower? Thanks - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... I found this thread interesting. Enjoy, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... [...] How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist this? Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288 CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better than 4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1 and many tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also run tons of concurrent data. The graphs show this too. What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can handle? VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically prioritize VoIP over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just dedicating a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the same time, VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of low priority traffic. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP? We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our implementation. Are the SMs SNMP capable, or only the data from a SM through the AP? Yes, if set to be one of the management consoles. These 2 questions and answers don't match. ;-) Patrick's answers are not related to the question. I'd be interested to know the answer to the second question (for VL). Where are the SMs authentication information (MAC, etc.) stored at? AP level? If an AP fails, what is involved with replacing that AP and restoring the SMs? Are there any backup utilities to assist? MAC table. If an AU fails and the "best AU" setting is enabled the CPEs will automatically re-associate to the next best AU. All CPE and AUs have a shadow flash and different firmware can be stored on each flash, this is invaluable if for some reason an upgrade fails in process. We are the only ones with shadow flash (that I know of). AUs can also be deployed stand alone or as part of a chassis system with blades. In the chassis configuration supports redundant power and you can swap IDUs should an IDU fail. Again here...the question was related to subscriber (cpe) authentication. What authentication methods exist for VL? Do they use a local database? Does VL support RADIUS auth for the CPE? Do the SM and AP have a log that we can see information about interfaces and traffic? There's a question I do not know the answer to, but I can find out. Obviously not like a packet shaper though. The question was about historical traffic information (not shaping). I'm not certain the question really makes much sense, but it sounds like he is asking about something similar to a graph of interface traffic and other stats (dropped packets, retrans, etc.). Whew, that took a while. But it was a good exercise for me anyway. I'm happy to say I could answer most without looking at the manual. Not bad for a non-tech. No kidding! It was a good read (thanks, Marlon for posting). There are a couple of questions that I had, as a follow up to the original question/answer post. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Fw: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers...
I found this thread interesting. Enjoy, marlon - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: [WISP] Sort of OT: Long list of answers... So a gent on the P15 Moto list asked a huge number of questions about Canopy. I thought it would be very interesting to attempt to answer them from a VL perspective. Since it took a ton of time, I wanted to get some use out them. Excellent questions actually. Pretty darned thorough. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are modifications to the APs FCC legal? No, but we numerous 3rd party sectors sectors certified that may e used. Our sectors range from 60, 90, and 120 degrees, plus omni choices (God forbid!) How wide are the 5.7 AP channels, is this adjustable? What would a SA show the channel width to be? Yes, 10 or 20 MHz wide. You can also change on the fly and all CPE will adjust automatically. What is the real-world distance achieved in a LOS situation without reflector, with? The CPE with VL comes with an integrated antenna which enables on the VL to reach about 7 miles LOS at full capacity (32mbps net ftp), 16mbps at 5 miles, 29mbps at 2 miles and 32mbps at 1 mile. The answer BTW to your Canopy question can be found on their doc CNPY-ADV-SUBMODFCT brochure produced in 2006. On that doc it says the range of the 5.7 w/o reflector is 14mbps to 1 mile and 7mbps to 2 miles. Beyond that you must have a reflector. With the reflect you get 14mbps to 5 miles and 7mbps to 10 miles. Are there any tools or utilities that Motorola or other offers to assist in the network development of Canopy products? There are things like link calculators, channel plan docs, and plenty of opportunity for direct consultation. Can two SMs on the same AP talk to each other without special routing? In VL it could be enabled via the many VLAN capabilities, which include QinQ VLAN support, but VL intentionally does not allow this out of the box (it is something the operator, i.e. you, should have control over.) Explain how the Advantage 14MB/s (or 20MB/s) works, how is that allocated, how true are those figures? Is the allocation dynamic? Can you mix breeds of SM on the AP? VL uses OFDM, which gives it some NLOS abilities (not so much with trees, but it also helps a bit there). The OFDM we uses adaptive modulates (dynamic) to maintain the best connection. Each mod level down is a lower rate. You can also set the radio to fix on a modulation level if you wish. All VL CPE versions work seamlessly together in any sector. Can an SM access the AP it's on for management? In VL the operator can assign multiple stations for management access. Is there a feature to disable broadcast traffic? Yes, VL has a "broadcast rate limiting" feature which can be set per subscriber. It can also send you a trap if any set station nears its limit. Why can't the APs use horizontal polarization? Doesn't this limit the radio's ability to co-locate? The CPEs now have an option (in the rev E version hardware) to be either H or V pol mounted. The AUs can be mounted either way (by way of antenna choice). Why is the latency so high for the APs (5-7ms)? N/A, but looking in terms of a specific application, the delay with the optional "WLP" (wireless link prioritization feature) feature is stable at 4 or less ms. What is the maximum PPS per AP? Up to about 6 downstream and 48000 upstream. Are there any tools to prevent or reduce the impact from an end-user launching a DoS attack? Yes, the broadcast rate limiting feature was designed specifically because of this threat. How do the APs handle VoIP traffic? Is there anything that can assist this? Better, literally, than any other AP in unlicensed, with up 288 CONCURRENT VoIP calls per AP (we call them AUs) with a MOS of better than 4.0. With the WLP feature implemented, MOS is typically over 4.1 and many tests show over 4.4. (I have some great VoIP graphs). We can also run tons of concurrent data. The graphs show this too. What is a realistic number of concurrent VoIP sessions an AP can handle? VL is the only product that can literally and dynamically prioritize VoIP over the entire pipe and across the entire sector (versus just dedicating a partition that must be allocated whether used or not). At the same time, VL has a starvation prevention mechanism to prevent starvation of low priority traffic. Are there any known problems with over-polling an AP with SNMP? We do not use polling. In our view it is less efficient than our implementation. Are the SMs SNMP capable, or only the data from a SM through the AP? Yes, if set to be one of the management consoles. What improvements over the current APs does Motorola hope to achieve in the next generation? VL was
