Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 02:12:17AM -0600, Sam Tetherow wrote: > I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a > bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In > fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. > MT Documentation is very weak. It's a dim bulb, not a shine. They are improving with the wiki though. Just now they are getting around to updating the 3.x documentation by moving it to the wiki. They are off to a good start and I hope they finish it. There are lots of things not well documented, mostly featured added in 3.x or things changed over the years. Fetch hasn't been ever been well documented for example. File naming conventions/rules, BGP docs was never updated from v2.9 till they recently started putting it on their wiki. Lots of things offer examples, but no documenting of the feature options. If you want good documentation, look at HP Procurve, Cisco IOS and routers, Alvarion, Redhat, SuSE, Mysql. -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Nope, Not with StarOS and Tranzeo. Worked most of the time when I put a StarOS V3 CPE on the same. Worked right away with MT and Tranzeo. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Did you ever get an answer on your VPN issue. I have one customer that is having problems and 2 others that are not... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Steve Barnes wrote: > As I stated in my earlier post. I think that StarOS is a Solid Option. > I am a fairly new startup WISP. I started by expanding an existing > distant wisps network in our county. They had 1 tower with 20 clients. > I have taken it over and have expanded it and have over 300 clients in a > short time. I paid them to help build out my network with all StarOS for > backhaul and AP's because of their existing knowledge and experience. I > paid them to help manage the network and we did all the Client installs > and support. > We had an issue that we were having way to much noise at one tower and > needed to change to XR2's for better filtering. The V2 Wrap boards would > not handle the XR2 so we installed new War2 Boards with StarOS V3. We > got the new boards working in Minutes but then none of our clients VPNs > would work everything else worked great. Then the engineer for my > supplier quit so I was the new engineer forced to troubleshoot these > problems myself. Yes I was new to StarOS but have been a computer > specialist and network installer for 15 years. I spent 3 weeks on the > StarOS support forum Trying everything they told me. I change client > CPE 3 times, tried a VDS setup, and endured being told by the > programmers/forum support to go out of business and let a real company > take over my clients. That was when I said screw them and had tower > climber come back and put in Mikrotik AP boards. Put the original CPE > back at the clients and they were up and going in minutes. Yes I have > had to deal with the Mikrotik/Tranzeo disconnect issue but that has now > been resolved. They just work and since then all my APs have been > Mikrotik. I love winbox I love the layout. We have stayed with StarOS > War boards for backhaul. > > Those are my experiences. Again if you are a old command line guy and > love scripting then StarOS maybe your bag. I am a GUI kind of Guy. MT > are just easier and I have so many more people I can call for support > any day. With StarOS NOT ONE. > > Steve Barnes > RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:01 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on > the > simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. > > We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to > very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the > difficulty > level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? > > This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS > Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount > of > traffic." Thanks! > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for >> manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel >> > of > >> qualified third pary consultants like MT does). >> It means alot when the person writing code is also the person >> > responding to > >> End User List support request. >> The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform >> > that > >> we >> have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm >> > sure > >> Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) >> >> Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI >> > cards, > >> which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. >> We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What >> > we > >> learned, (with assitance from another loca
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Did you ever get an answer on your VPN issue. I have one customer that is having problems and 2 others that are not... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Steve Barnes wrote: > As I stated in my earlier post. I think that StarOS is a Solid Option. > I am a fairly new startup WISP. I started by expanding an existing > distant wisps network in our county. They had 1 tower with 20 clients. > I have taken it over and have expanded it and have over 300 clients in a > short time. I paid them to help build out my network with all StarOS for > backhaul and AP's because of their existing knowledge and experience. I > paid them to help manage the network and we did all the Client installs > and support. > We had an issue that we were having way to much noise at one tower and > needed to change to XR2's for better filtering. The V2 Wrap boards would > not handle the XR2 so we installed new War2 Boards with StarOS V3. We > got the new boards working in Minutes but then none of our clients VPNs > would work everything else worked great. Then the engineer for my > supplier quit so I was the new engineer forced to troubleshoot these > problems myself. Yes I was new to StarOS but have been a computer > specialist and network installer for 15 years. I spent 3 weeks on the > StarOS support forum Trying everything they told me. I change client > CPE 3 times, tried a VDS setup, and endured being told by the > programmers/forum support to go out of business and let a real company > take over my clients. That was when I said screw them and had tower > climber come back and put in Mikrotik AP boards. Put the original CPE > back at the clients and they were up and going in minutes. Yes I have > had to deal with the Mikrotik/Tranzeo disconnect issue but that has now > been resolved. They just work and since then all my APs have been > Mikrotik. I love winbox I love the layout. We have stayed with StarOS > War boards for backhaul. > > Those are my experiences. Again if you are a old command line guy and > love scripting then StarOS maybe your bag. I am a GUI kind of Guy. MT > are just easier and I have so many more people I can call for support > any day. With StarOS NOT ONE. > > Steve Barnes > RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:01 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on > the > simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. > > We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to > very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the > difficulty > level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? > > This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS > Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount > of > traffic." Thanks! > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for >> manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel >> > of > >> qualified third pary consultants like MT does). >> It means alot when the person writing code is also the person >> > responding to > >> End User List support request. >> The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform >> > that > >> we >> have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm >> > sure > >> Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) >> >> Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI >> > cards, > >> which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. >> We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What >> > we > >> learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS >> > Bridging was > >> able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was >> > enough CPE > >> power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more >> processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. >> >> One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really c
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
and why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way > that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool > that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a > radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same > PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. > This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that > slows our troubleshooting. > > > > > > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > > >> I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs >> on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration >> point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am >> programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the >> technical end. >> >> I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a >> bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In >> fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. >> >> I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better >> latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have >> run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT >> does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I >> pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput >> in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after >> Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. >> >> As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both >> from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use >> expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for >> handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master >> documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. >> >>Sam Tetherow >>Sandhills Wireless >> >> >> Josh Luthman wrote: >> >>> Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the >>> simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. >>> >>> We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to >>> very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty >>> level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? >>> >>> This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS >>> Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of >>> traffic." Thanks! >>> >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. >>> --- Henry Spencer >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for >>>> manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of >>>> qualified third pary consultants like MT does). >>>> It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding >>>> to >>>> End User List support request. >>>> The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform >>>> that >>>> we >>>> have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure >>>> Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) >>>> >>>> Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI >>>> cards, >>>> which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. >>>> We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we >>>> learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging >>>> was >>>> able to perform as well as routing config
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Lucaya/StarOS/Valemount/SOS/VNC(*) put on a training session last January in the Caribbean. Last I heard they were planning one for Minnesota in Jan '09. You best bet to learn about them would be thru the StarOS forums. (*) This is one of my complaints about StarOS - what the heck do I call them? :-) -John (a pretty happy StarOS user) On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:53 AM, Steve Barnes wrote: > > Maybe some of you StarOS gurus out there should offer a training > class. > I know at least 3 guys that would love to have one. > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
One of the nice parts about StarOS is that the scripting format is the same as the linux packages that they load to perform those functions - so if you want to learn how to do fancy cbq scripts, just look for the many available linux docs that describe how to use iptables and you are set. Same thing goes for firewalls, quagga (ospf/olsr/rip/bgp), dhcpd and other features. Also, the default config scripts include many well-commented examples for common applications. Since StarOS is based on open source, standard packages for a lot of its functionality, I would actually say that in many ways its documentation is BETTER than Mikrotik, which doesn't follow the same standards for configuration, and requires you to learn its command-line interface or fight your way through Winbox to do some of the more complex tasks. If ten people respond to me with a request for a training class, I will put one on. I could easily do three days on StarOS and already have a basic outline together for it. Word is that the StarOS guys are planning a training in Las Vegas sometime early next year. Maybe we could have a pre-session training session in coordination with their "advanced" one. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Steve Barnes wrote: > Sam if you find good documentation other then the forums please let the > rest of us know. I would love it. > > Maybe some of you StarOS gurus out there should offer a training class. > I know at least 3 guys that would love to have one. > > Steve Barnes > RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Sam Tetherow > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs > on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration > point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am > > programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the > technical end. > > I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a > > bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In > fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. > > I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better > latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have > > run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT > does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I > pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput > in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after > Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. > > As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both > from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use > expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for > handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master > documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. > > Sam Tetherow > Sandhills Wireless > > > Josh Luthman wrote: > >> Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on >> > the > >> simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. >> >> We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy >> > to > >> very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the >> > difficulty > >> level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? >> >> This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the >> > WDS > >> Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount >> > of > >> traffic." Thanks! >> >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. >> --- Henry Spencer >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> >> >>> I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for >>> manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel >>> > of > >>> qualified third pary consultants like MT does). >>> It means alot when the person writing code is also the pers
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
A quick and handy feature is a "config" file which can be uploaded and pretty much configures everything. I set up my cpe and then downloaded the file. After that point, uploading that file does a full configure of my CPE, including firewall, CBQ, NAT, etc. The file is unique per hardware platform, but only takes moments to upload. You could even have one for 2.4, 5 and 900, which would let you fully configure a cpe (including password!) in 10 seconds. - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:08 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Sam if you find good documentation other then the forums please let the rest of us know. I would love it. Maybe some of you StarOS gurus out there should offer a training class. I know at least 3 guys that would love to have one. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the technical end. I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Josh Luthman wrote: > Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the > simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. > > We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to > very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty > level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? > > This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS > Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of > traffic." Thanks! > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for >> manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of >> qualified third pary consultants like MT does). >> It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to >> End User List support request. >> The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that >> we >> have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure >> Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) >> >> Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, >> which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. >> We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we >> learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was >> able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE >> power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more >> processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. >> >> One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power >> the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a >> better >> job at that. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? >> >> >> >>> I have to disagree with the below. >>> >>> There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as >>> one >>> might think from his description. >>> >>> Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. >>> >>> I have used it for the vast majority of everything,
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
As I stated in my earlier post. I think that StarOS is a Solid Option. I am a fairly new startup WISP. I started by expanding an existing distant wisps network in our county. They had 1 tower with 20 clients. I have taken it over and have expanded it and have over 300 clients in a short time. I paid them to help build out my network with all StarOS for backhaul and AP's because of their existing knowledge and experience. I paid them to help manage the network and we did all the Client installs and support. We had an issue that we were having way to much noise at one tower and needed to change to XR2's for better filtering. The V2 Wrap boards would not handle the XR2 so we installed new War2 Boards with StarOS V3. We got the new boards working in Minutes but then none of our clients VPNs would work everything else worked great. Then the engineer for my supplier quit so I was the new engineer forced to troubleshoot these problems myself. Yes I was new to StarOS but have been a computer specialist and network installer for 15 years. I spent 3 weeks on the StarOS support forum Trying everything they told me. I change client CPE 3 times, tried a VDS setup, and endured being told by the programmers/forum support to go out of business and let a real company take over my clients. That was when I said screw them and had tower climber come back and put in Mikrotik AP boards. Put the original CPE back at the clients and they were up and going in minutes. Yes I have had to deal with the Mikrotik/Tranzeo disconnect issue but that has now been resolved. They just work and since then all my APs have been Mikrotik. I love winbox I love the layout. We have stayed with StarOS War boards for backhaul. Those are my experiences. Again if you are a old command line guy and love scripting then StarOS maybe your bag. I am a GUI kind of Guy. MT are just easier and I have so many more people I can call for support any day. With StarOS NOT ONE. Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic." Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for > manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of > qualified third pary consultants like MT does). > It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to > End User List support request. > The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that > we > have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure > Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) > > Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, > which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. > We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we > learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was > able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE > power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more > processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. > > One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power > the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a > better > job at that. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > > >I have to disagree with the below. > > > > There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as > > one > > might think from his description. > > > > Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. > > > > I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to > ap's
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 03:00 -0500, Josh Luthman wrote: > Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the > simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. StarOS is a simple OS to learn. It's not that hard because there's not a lot to it. It is very useful for wireless deployments. It can do iptables and has some basic troubleshooting tools as well. Get much beyond that and the OS is simply not capable. As was pointed out, though, the wireless drivers are really it's strongest point. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Odd I never seen a problem running multiple winboxes on the same pc. There even been time where I been logged in more then two times to the same router with winbox. Had more then 10 winboxes running at the same time. Personally I very much the MT CLI interface much more then the StarOS menu driven system. The CLI give you assist with all command to build firewall rules, queue rules etc while the editor function in StarOS isn't IMO very helpful there. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:08:45 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? Let me explain MT enables everything to be done through an easy graphical interface. In other words no need to remember syntax. In StarOS, to configure advanced features, from the menu you open up a script page, and then manually writing text commands. StarOS has little documetnations, MT has very complete documentation. >From that perspective MT is easy, and StarOS is hard. However, there is another angle. What if you don't really want to use all those custom advanced features? MT's interface is really somewhat overwelming. There is too much there, designed for the super tech. StarOS on the other hand, has a Mouse clickable menu (NOt a windows GUI, more like a DOS version of a window) that is well organized, and easy to spot and access the feature that you want to configure. The core feature that you want to configure (such as wireless settings) are all complete with easy checkboxes. With StarOS I spend lesss time hunting for the menu item I want to use. For example, when StarOS starts, by default on the main screen you see your wireless connections and the RSSI and Noise for each. You don;t have to click anything to get to that place, its just right there. Then if you press F1, (a single key) you now have a view of all your subscribers and their RSSIs and link Qualities. So basically in seconds, you are viewing menaingful information on your active connections. When you go to configure wireless, all the core features you will change are all on one screen, in one place. And because it is SSH accessed, it can be done from anywhere anytime, and it is lightnig fast to navigate the menu.. >From that perspective StarOS is the more easy. MT is very feature rich, if not the most feature rich. With options, comes choice. And where there is choice there is greater complexity, and greater chance of error. When we first started using MT, techs always had to go look at another MT router already configured to remember how to configure it the way that was our standard to do so. It was harder to remember, and required more training. Once we learned it, it was easy, but it had a longer learnign curve. With StarOS, we are not driven to use all the options. It could be argued that I am not being fair, because we don't use StarOS complex features, to report how hard they are or aren;t to use. STAROS also has made much automatic. For example, WDS bridging is 100% automatic, and requires no customization. Its senses whether to treat the CPE as a wifi station or a WDS true bridge. And does it well. Thats why even though WDS took more processing power, we chose to use Bridging anyway. It was jsut easy, and we could operate it just like a dumb bridge, like a Trango or Canopy. But the primary reason we used StarOS, is they generally were the fist to out out a key features that we were looking for. For example they did 5 Mhz channels first. possibly first to support 533Mhz board. Because we always ahve been a company to jump first on new useful features, we quickly jumped on StarOS. Then we somewhat get locked into it at those regions we deployed it. Today, MT is offering so many improvements, its pretty hard to beat. Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that slows our troubleshooting. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? >I am prim
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Tom DeReggi wrote: > Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do > with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing > tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. > StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not > understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way > that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool > that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a > radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same > PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. > This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that > slows our troubleshooting. > Hi TomI've been able to open two winboxes from the same pc if not more. Also, if you use the dude this can be done easily. Take care leon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Let me explain MT enables everything to be done through an easy graphical interface. In other words no need to remember syntax. In StarOS, to configure advanced features, from the menu you open up a script page, and then manually writing text commands. StarOS has little documetnations, MT has very complete documentation. >From that perspective MT is easy, and StarOS is hard. However, there is another angle. What if you don't really want to use all those custom advanced features? MT's interface is really somewhat overwelming. There is too much there, designed for the super tech. StarOS on the other hand, has a Mouse clickable menu (NOt a windows GUI, more like a DOS version of a window) that is well organized, and easy to spot and access the feature that you want to configure. The core feature that you want to configure (such as wireless settings) are all complete with easy checkboxes. With StarOS I spend lesss time hunting for the menu item I want to use. For example, when StarOS starts, by default on the main screen you see your wireless connections and the RSSI and Noise for each. You don;t have to click anything to get to that place, its just right there. Then if you press F1, (a single key) you now have a view of all your subscribers and their RSSIs and link Qualities. So basically in seconds, you are viewing menaingful information on your active connections. When you go to configure wireless, all the core features you will change are all on one screen, in one place. And because it is SSH accessed, it can be done from anywhere anytime, and it is lightnig fast to navigate the menu.. >From that perspective StarOS is the more easy. MT is very feature rich, if not the most feature rich. With options, comes choice. And where there is choice there is greater complexity, and greater chance of error. When we first started using MT, techs always had to go look at another MT router already configured to remember how to configure it the way that was our standard to do so. It was harder to remember, and required more training. Once we learned it, it was easy, but it had a longer learnign curve. With StarOS, we are not driven to use all the options. It could be argued that I am not being fair, because we don't use StarOS complex features, to report how hard they are or aren;t to use. STAROS also has made much automatic. For example, WDS bridging is 100% automatic, and requires no customization. Its senses whether to treat the CPE as a wifi station or a WDS true bridge. And does it well. Thats why even though WDS took more processing power, we chose to use Bridging anyway. It was jsut easy, and we could operate it just like a dumb bridge, like a Trango or Canopy. But the primary reason we used StarOS, is they generally were the fist to out out a key features that we were looking for. For example they did 5 Mhz channels first. possibly first to support 533Mhz board. Because we always ahve been a company to jump first on new useful features, we quickly jumped on StarOS. Then we somewhat get locked into it at those regions we deployed it. Today, MT is offering so many improvements, its pretty hard to beat. Ironically, the two big reasons that we use StarOS more, has nothing to do with reasons other WISPs would choose. We wanted a standards based testing tool that was able to be run from any device on our network. We chose Iperf. StarOS was the first to add Iperf to its firmware. To this day, I do not understand why MT will not. (its a small app). The second is that the way that the Mikrotik GUI works, and a design conflict with a proprieatry tool that we call device proxy, that we use to quickly locate and login to a radio, it does not allow us to open up two MIkrotiks routers fro mthe same PC at the same time. Meaning we can;t be logged into both the AP and CPE. This is a big pain for us. We don't have that problem with StarOS, that slows our troubleshooting. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? >I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs > on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration > point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am > programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the > technical end. > > I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a > bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In > fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. > > I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better > latency than MT APs do both in ba
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
I am primarily a MT shop although I have started putting up StarOS APs on Matt's advice and because they are certified. From a configuration point I don't think they are really all that complex but then again I am programmer/network admin/unix geek so I'm probably skewed toward the technical end. I don't think they are any more complex than MT in fact they are quite a bit simpler, however where MT does shine is in the documentation. In fact there is so much MT documentation it can be overwhelming at times. I have been fairly happy with my StarOS APs so far. They have better latency than MT APs do both in backhauls as well as APs. However I have run into instances where they do not handle interference as well as MT does. I don't know if there are some settings I can change to help, I pulled the StarOS box back out when I couldn't maintain the throughput in my noisy 2.4 environment. I might take another stab at it, after Christmas but as it stands now the MT is handing things better. As for management. I miss the command line interface that MT has both from simple management as well as for automating things. I can use expect to manage any aspect of an MT box. I'm stuck with starutil for handing things in StarOS and either I haven't found the master documentation or it doesn't support everything the menu interface does. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Josh Luthman wrote: > Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the > simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. > > We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to > very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty > level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? > > This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS > Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of > traffic." Thanks! > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. > --- Henry Spencer > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > >> I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for >> manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of >> qualified third pary consultants like MT does). >> It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to >> End User List support request. >> The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that >> we >> have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure >> Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) >> >> Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, >> which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. >> We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we >> learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was >> able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE >> power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more >> processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. >> >> One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power >> the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a >> better >> job at that. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? >> >> >> >>> I have to disagree with the below. >>> >>> There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as >>> one >>> might think from his description. >>> >>> Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. >>> >>> I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to >>> >> ap's >> >>> to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 A
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
Looking at this from an outside point of view I'm awfully confused on the simplicity or complexity of learning StarOS. We have both ends of the poles as well as a middle ground - very easy to very hard. Would those of you who stated their opinion on the difficulty level mind sharing their other network gear experience, please? This is very very valuable information -- "But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic." Thanks! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for > manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of > qualified third pary consultants like MT does). > It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to > End User List support request. > The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that > we > have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure > Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) > > Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, > which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. > We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we > learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was > able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE > power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more > processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. > > One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power > the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a > better > job at that. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > - Original Message - > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > > >I have to disagree with the below. > > > > There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as > > one > > might think from his description. > > > > Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. > > > > I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to > ap's > > to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > > > > >> > >> StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making > >> it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install > >> it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that > >> version changes are huge. When going from a V2 OS setup to a V3, There > >> were huge changes in the OS that took lots of testing and many > >> adjustments to our system. > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: > 12/9/2008 > > 9:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
I agree. I also say that StarOS's support is actually pretty good for manufacturer provided support. (They do not have as large a channel of qualified third pary consultants like MT does). It means alot when the person writing code is also the person responding to End User List support request. The beauty of StarOS is its simplicity and ease. Its a fine flatform that we have used often. (I'd argue some of the best drivers, allthough I'm sure Nstreme lovers would argue otherwise :-) Recently they have had some issues with bad batches of failing mPCI cards, which has been a pain, but that is not a reflection of the software. We actually have been very successful with Bridging StarOS PtPs. What we learned, (with assitance from another local WISP) was that WDS Bridging was able to perform as well as routing configs, as long as there was enough CPE power. But to go full speed, the WDS Bridging config used 50% more processing power to pass the same amount of traffic. One thing I don't like about StarOS, is its never really clear what power the cards trasmit at when set to a specifc setting. I think MT does a better job at that. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? >I have to disagree with the below. > > There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as > one > might think from his description. > > Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. > > I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to ap's > to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > >> >> StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making >> it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install >> it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that >> version changes are huge. When going from a V2 OS setup to a V3, There >> were huge changes in the OS that took lots of testing and many >> adjustments to our system. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1839 - Release Date: 12/9/2008 > 9:59 AM > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
I have to disagree with the below. There's a short, very steep curve at the bottom, but it's not as bad as one might think from his description. Compared to Mikrotik, it is the model of simplicity. I have used it for the vast majority of everything, from backhauls to ap's to clients, and I have it deployed on 2.4, 5ghz, and 900 mhz. - Original Message - From: "Steve Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > > StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making > it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install > it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that > version changes are huge. When going from a V2 OS setup to a V3, There > were huge changes in the OS that took lots of testing and many > adjustments to our system. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
I want to answer some of this from my perspective. Why is StarOS not used as much and not as widely available? SUPPORT!!! Valemont networks are hard people to deal with. You have to be immensely patient to get support and ignore some of what is stated by the support staff about how you are using their equipment. They have their way and that is what they support. StarOS is a solid environment, but you have to commit yourself to making it work. Very hard for a startup company to just pick it up and install it. You have a huge learning curve. The other thing I saw was that version changes are huge. When going from a V2 OS setup to a V3, There were huge changes in the OS that took lots of testing and many adjustments to our system. IMHO if the StarOS environment wants to ever have the impact that it has the ability to have, they need to train people and setup user groups like MT has. They need to quit having programmers with no people skills answer support questions and they need to decide what their business model and plan for the future is. Without this in place why would a vendor want to carry their inventory and have to answer questions about something so poorly supported? As Matt stated once installed and setup it is ROCK SOLID stuff and very flexible (if you can figure out how.) Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 1:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? As I have said I have no experience with StarOS. I wish I had learned of this when I was first starting as I may have much of it in use now but I still may start using it if I ever dive into it. With the list of very impressive things you have seen and accomplished with it I can't help but ask the questions - why are there only two major vendors? Why aren't more WISPs using this product? What is the fault that makes it such a small part of the market - is it the marketing the company failed to do? Is there some major flaw everyone avoids? Thank you very much for sharing that information, Matt. I for one really enjoy reading these "soapbox articles" =) The bullet points of the epic above: *many customers in the 15-25 mile range running on StarOS APs *one sub at 33 miles that runs 15-20gig of traffic a month - no complaints (we all love that last part) *802.11b APs with 85-90 subs on them, and 802.11a APs with 100+ *One pulled out all of their $5000-$9000 Motorola backhauls and replaced them with $900 StarOS FDD BH and saw huge improvements in performance. *Several more but these are the real good ones with numbers =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Matt Larsen - Lists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I put myself in as being Tranzeo based, as that is the heavy majority of > my CPE radios, although I have a fair amount of Ubiquiti, Telex, > HighGain and a smattering of Mikrotik CPE as well. Chuck started the > survey, and as a Canopy user he is more used to the idea of everything > coming from the same vendor. With StarOS and Mikrotik, you can use one > thing for your APs and backhauls, and another brand or multiple > different brands for your CPE radios. > > All of my APs and backhauls are on StarOS.I find that there are a > lot of StarOS operators out there, but you don't hear from them because > they tend to gather on the StarOS forums and don't get involved in list > politics. Unfortunately, many of the discussions on this and other > lists ends up focusing on Mikrotik and Canopy because there are more > vendors pushing them, and users "evangelizing" them. > > I have plenty of experience with StarOS, Mikrotik and Tranzeo - and I > have deployed Trango and Canopy as well. For the majority of the > wireless applications I have been involved in, it was the most > ubiquitous and best value of the platforms I have used. > > It is not a "brain-dead" deployment - if you want to run a bridged > network, StarOS is definitely not for you. There is a little bit of a > learning curve, and almost no available training resources for it beyond > the StarOS forums.There are few vendors that sell it - FreeSpace and > Streakwave are about the only two major ones that do much with Star. > The developers are not exactly accessible and will become openly hostile > if your choice of network topology doesn't fit their recommended way of > doing things. These are all factors that limit the overall adoption of > StarOS. > > However, at the core of StarOS is a set of world-class wireless > drivers. StarOS was the f
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
If Matt says it can be done, it can be done... even if he uses that... other... OS. :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Matt Larsen - Lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 12:06 AM To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Subject: [WISPA] Where is StarOS? > I put myself in as being Tranzeo based, as that is the heavy majority of > my CPE radios, although I have a fair amount of Ubiquiti, Telex, > HighGain and a smattering of Mikrotik CPE as well. Chuck started the > survey, and as a Canopy user he is more used to the idea of everything > coming from the same vendor. With StarOS and Mikrotik, you can use one > thing for your APs and backhauls, and another brand or multiple > different brands for your CPE radios. > > All of my APs and backhauls are on StarOS.I find that there are a > lot of StarOS operators out there, but you don't hear from them because > they tend to gather on the StarOS forums and don't get involved in list > politics. Unfortunately, many of the discussions on this and other > lists ends up focusing on Mikrotik and Canopy because there are more > vendors pushing them, and users "evangelizing" them. > > I have plenty of experience with StarOS, Mikrotik and Tranzeo - and I > have deployed Trango and Canopy as well. For the majority of the > wireless applications I have been involved in, it was the most > ubiquitous and best value of the platforms I have used. > > It is not a "brain-dead" deployment - if you want to run a bridged > network, StarOS is definitely not for you. There is a little bit of a > learning curve, and almost no available training resources for it beyond > the StarOS forums.There are few vendors that sell it - FreeSpace and > Streakwave are about the only two major ones that do much with Star. > The developers are not exactly accessible and will become openly hostile > if your choice of network topology doesn't fit their recommended way of > doing things. These are all factors that limit the overall adoption of > StarOS. > > However, at the core of StarOS is a set of world-class wireless > drivers. StarOS was the first platform to have 20/10/5mhz channels > with the Atheros chipsets. Their distance settings were a first, going > back to their Orinoco drivers, and enabling WISPs to pick up customers > beyond the 12mile wifi limit. I have many customers in the 15-25 mile > range running on StarOS APs. I actually have one sub at 33 miles that > runs 15-20gig of traffic a month - no complaints. With good bandwidth > management profiles, you can get a lot of people on an AP. I have had > 802.11b APs with 85-90 subs on them, and 802.11a APs with 100+. It is > doable, and I have done it. > > StarOS is also great for backhauls, both half and full-duplex. I have a > pair of WAR boards running in turbo mode that have been in the air for > 2.5 years, and run 15-35 meg constantly. Haven't so much as changed > the channel in that 2 year period. I have FDD links on $400 X4000 > radios that will do 50meg throughput (10/40, 25/25, 40/10, whatever) > over 20+ miles. I've watched StarOS backhauls kill Canopy backhauls on > the same channels, and the signal squelch features allow backhauls to > work in places where other stuff flat out will not work. I have 550+ > miles of StarOS backhaul up, including a 65 mile shot and several more > 35+ mile shots, and several of my consulting clients have just as many > miles in the air. One pulled out all of their $5000-$9000 Motorola > backhauls and replaced them with $900 StarOS FDD BH and saw huge > improvements in performance. I've even mixed Star and Mikrotik > backhauls with decent results. > > StarOS has also been a great platform to work with when it comes to > building an integrated wireless platform. Radius auth of MAC addresses > has been there from the start, and doesn't require any special servers > beyond a radius server. Loading DHCP scripts, cbq rules and firewall > settings is easily automated with shell scripts (much easier than > Mikrotik). OSPF works great and does exactly what it is supposed to. > SNMP is comprehensive and it's easy to track signal strength, link > quality, # of associations, interface traffic and cpu load with commonly > available tools. The "F1" associations list is by far the best > troubleshooting tool I have used on any platform. There is good stuff > in there. > > Best of all is not being beholden to any specific vendor for CPE > radios. Over the years I've used radios from Tranzeo, Teletronics, > Orin
Re: [WISPA] Where is StarOS?
As I have said I have no experience with StarOS. I wish I had learned of this when I was first starting as I may have much of it in use now but I still may start using it if I ever dive into it. With the list of very impressive things you have seen and accomplished with it I can't help but ask the questions - why are there only two major vendors? Why aren't more WISPs using this product? What is the fault that makes it such a small part of the market - is it the marketing the company failed to do? Is there some major flaw everyone avoids? Thank you very much for sharing that information, Matt. I for one really enjoy reading these "soapbox articles" =) The bullet points of the epic above: *many customers in the 15-25 mile range running on StarOS APs *one sub at 33 miles that runs 15-20gig of traffic a month - no complaints (we all love that last part) *802.11b APs with 85-90 subs on them, and 802.11a APs with 100+ *One pulled out all of their $5000-$9000 Motorola backhauls and replaced them with $900 StarOS FDD BH and saw huge improvements in performance. *Several more but these are the real good ones with numbers =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:06 AM, Matt Larsen - Lists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I put myself in as being Tranzeo based, as that is the heavy majority of > my CPE radios, although I have a fair amount of Ubiquiti, Telex, > HighGain and a smattering of Mikrotik CPE as well. Chuck started the > survey, and as a Canopy user he is more used to the idea of everything > coming from the same vendor. With StarOS and Mikrotik, you can use one > thing for your APs and backhauls, and another brand or multiple > different brands for your CPE radios. > > All of my APs and backhauls are on StarOS.I find that there are a > lot of StarOS operators out there, but you don't hear from them because > they tend to gather on the StarOS forums and don't get involved in list > politics. Unfortunately, many of the discussions on this and other > lists ends up focusing on Mikrotik and Canopy because there are more > vendors pushing them, and users "evangelizing" them. > > I have plenty of experience with StarOS, Mikrotik and Tranzeo - and I > have deployed Trango and Canopy as well. For the majority of the > wireless applications I have been involved in, it was the most > ubiquitous and best value of the platforms I have used. > > It is not a "brain-dead" deployment - if you want to run a bridged > network, StarOS is definitely not for you. There is a little bit of a > learning curve, and almost no available training resources for it beyond > the StarOS forums.There are few vendors that sell it - FreeSpace and > Streakwave are about the only two major ones that do much with Star. > The developers are not exactly accessible and will become openly hostile > if your choice of network topology doesn't fit their recommended way of > doing things. These are all factors that limit the overall adoption of > StarOS. > > However, at the core of StarOS is a set of world-class wireless > drivers. StarOS was the first platform to have 20/10/5mhz channels > with the Atheros chipsets. Their distance settings were a first, going > back to their Orinoco drivers, and enabling WISPs to pick up customers > beyond the 12mile wifi limit. I have many customers in the 15-25 mile > range running on StarOS APs. I actually have one sub at 33 miles that > runs 15-20gig of traffic a month - no complaints. With good bandwidth > management profiles, you can get a lot of people on an AP. I have had > 802.11b APs with 85-90 subs on them, and 802.11a APs with 100+. It is > doable, and I have done it. > > StarOS is also great for backhauls, both half and full-duplex. I have a > pair of WAR boards running in turbo mode that have been in the air for > 2.5 years, and run 15-35 meg constantly. Haven't so much as changed > the channel in that 2 year period. I have FDD links on $400 X4000 > radios that will do 50meg throughput (10/40, 25/25, 40/10, whatever) > over 20+ miles. I've watched StarOS backhauls kill Canopy backhauls on > the same channels, and the signal squelch features allow backhauls to > work in places where other stuff flat out will not work. I have 550+ > miles of StarOS backhaul up, including a 65 mile shot and several more > 35+ mile shots, and several of my consulting clients have just as many > miles in the air. One pulled out all of their $5000-$9000 Motorola > backhauls and replaced them with $900 StarOS FDD BH and saw huge > improvements in performance. I've even mixed Star and Mikrotik > backhauls with decent results. > > StarOS has also been a great platform to work with when it comes to > building an integrated wireless platform. Radius auth of MAC addresses > has been there from the start, and
[WISPA] Where is StarOS?
I put myself in as being Tranzeo based, as that is the heavy majority of my CPE radios, although I have a fair amount of Ubiquiti, Telex, HighGain and a smattering of Mikrotik CPE as well. Chuck started the survey, and as a Canopy user he is more used to the idea of everything coming from the same vendor. With StarOS and Mikrotik, you can use one thing for your APs and backhauls, and another brand or multiple different brands for your CPE radios. All of my APs and backhauls are on StarOS.I find that there are a lot of StarOS operators out there, but you don't hear from them because they tend to gather on the StarOS forums and don't get involved in list politics. Unfortunately, many of the discussions on this and other lists ends up focusing on Mikrotik and Canopy because there are more vendors pushing them, and users "evangelizing" them. I have plenty of experience with StarOS, Mikrotik and Tranzeo - and I have deployed Trango and Canopy as well. For the majority of the wireless applications I have been involved in, it was the most ubiquitous and best value of the platforms I have used. It is not a "brain-dead" deployment - if you want to run a bridged network, StarOS is definitely not for you. There is a little bit of a learning curve, and almost no available training resources for it beyond the StarOS forums.There are few vendors that sell it - FreeSpace and Streakwave are about the only two major ones that do much with Star. The developers are not exactly accessible and will become openly hostile if your choice of network topology doesn't fit their recommended way of doing things. These are all factors that limit the overall adoption of StarOS. However, at the core of StarOS is a set of world-class wireless drivers. StarOS was the first platform to have 20/10/5mhz channels with the Atheros chipsets. Their distance settings were a first, going back to their Orinoco drivers, and enabling WISPs to pick up customers beyond the 12mile wifi limit. I have many customers in the 15-25 mile range running on StarOS APs. I actually have one sub at 33 miles that runs 15-20gig of traffic a month - no complaints. With good bandwidth management profiles, you can get a lot of people on an AP. I have had 802.11b APs with 85-90 subs on them, and 802.11a APs with 100+. It is doable, and I have done it. StarOS is also great for backhauls, both half and full-duplex. I have a pair of WAR boards running in turbo mode that have been in the air for 2.5 years, and run 15-35 meg constantly. Haven't so much as changed the channel in that 2 year period. I have FDD links on $400 X4000 radios that will do 50meg throughput (10/40, 25/25, 40/10, whatever) over 20+ miles. I've watched StarOS backhauls kill Canopy backhauls on the same channels, and the signal squelch features allow backhauls to work in places where other stuff flat out will not work. I have 550+ miles of StarOS backhaul up, including a 65 mile shot and several more 35+ mile shots, and several of my consulting clients have just as many miles in the air. One pulled out all of their $5000-$9000 Motorola backhauls and replaced them with $900 StarOS FDD BH and saw huge improvements in performance. I've even mixed Star and Mikrotik backhauls with decent results. StarOS has also been a great platform to work with when it comes to building an integrated wireless platform. Radius auth of MAC addresses has been there from the start, and doesn't require any special servers beyond a radius server. Loading DHCP scripts, cbq rules and firewall settings is easily automated with shell scripts (much easier than Mikrotik). OSPF works great and does exactly what it is supposed to. SNMP is comprehensive and it's easy to track signal strength, link quality, # of associations, interface traffic and cpu load with commonly available tools. The "F1" associations list is by far the best troubleshooting tool I have used on any platform. There is good stuff in there. Best of all is not being beholden to any specific vendor for CPE radios. Over the years I've used radios from Tranzeo, Teletronics, Orinoco, SmartBridges, Senao, Linksys, D-link, Ubiquiti, Telex, HighGain, Mikrotik, eZY.net, Cisco, Ampwave and probably a few other brands that I don't recall. All different kinds of chipsets work with it, and without the dropped association issues that Mikrotik and other APs have had. One many of my 2.4ghz APs, there is a wide variety of chipsets in the CPE radios - zcom, prism, atheros, orinoco - and they all work fine with the AP. That there is flexibility. I'll get off the soapbox now, but I think you get the point. StarOS is a great platform, even if it doesn't get the attention of some of the other ones out there. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Scottie Arnett wrote: > I can guess that many of the "other" are StarOS as Matt Larsen used, it > should have been incl
