RE: [WSG] Draggable Items
Wow, the Panic one looks good. But when I changed the UA string to IE, it didn't execute at all in Firefox. So I'm guessing it didn't employ the W3C-DOM then :/ I guess I could compromise, but I'll have to look into it further. Anyhoo *bookmarks* Danke :) -- -David R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jalenack Sent: 20 March 2005 23:23 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Draggable Items I've also seen this done nicely at http://panic.com I'm no javascript expert, so I couldn't explain what they did. Just check their source.. They've got an example on the main page, but it all really shines in the apparel department: https://www.panic.com/goods/ HTH ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Draggable Items
Hi Does anyone know the best way to create draggable container elements? I know its possible with the IE-DOM, what with being designed from the get-go for “rich internet apps”, such as Outlook Web Access and “My MSN”, where, I must admit, is employed quite effectively. But is there any way to do this with the W3C-DOM in such a way that works in all the main engines (Gecko, Trident, Presto, KHTML/WebCore) Regards -- -David R
[WSG] Any comic-artists?
Hi Some of you may have come across the web-standards antics of "WebStandardsMan" on various internet forums and newsgroups. Just FYI, yes... that's me I was wondering if there were any comic-book artists, or anyone with a talent with DC/Marvel style illustration who's prepared to spend some time working with me on a one-off comic book (distributed on the 'net) focused on web-standards and the adventures of the fictional character as he battles the evils of tabular layout and non-semantic-ism. Any takers? :) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Internet Explorer - Whats going on here!!!
James Ellis wrote: Hi Let the user open links in a new window. Saves on development time. HTH james As well as being good-practice :) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Internet Explorer - Whats going on here!!!
Chris Stratford wrote:
Hey Nick,
The customised DTD simply allows: target="_blank"
Thats all.
Stick with XHTML1.1 and use the rel="external" hook to apply some
ECMAScript to open the new window
Below is the code I use:
--
function externalLinks() {
if (!document.getElementsByTagName) return;
var anchors = document.getElementsByTagName("a");
for (var i=0; ihttp://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Web Standads Skyscraper - Anyone knows how to?
Genau Lopes Jr. wrote:
Hi,
I am developing some different advertising and would like to know, how
can i create a slide layer that appears on righr side of browser, only
when the screen resolution is more than 1024x768 pixels.
My layer should be 150 px x 600 and will be layered at right side of
the page.
Can anyone help me how can i, make this using WebStandards and some
Javascript?
#adpane {
display: none;
width: 150px;
height: 600px;
float: right;
}
#maincontent {
margin-right: 0;
}
document.onload = Function {
if window.width > 1024 && window.height > 1024 {
document.GetElementByID("adpane").style.display = "block";
document.GetElementByID("maincontent").style.margin-right = "175px";
}
}
Lorem Ipsum
Should do it...
Although I was a bit sketchy on the ECMA DOM, you might want to get it
checked with someone who knows it better than me (ie: anyone ;) )
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Attribute Values
Jan Brasna wrote: What's more "in-spec": When talking about XHTML, it adheres to XML wellformness - so it's defined really simple: <http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/REC-xml-20001006#NT-AttValue> -- both are equivalent and thus sholud be supported in the same way. (I'd porsonally use double quotes to have it more compatible if there was a problem with older browsers) Oh... great. I just chastised someone on a HTML Help forum for using single-quotes to delimit attributes. D'oh! -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Attribute Values
Question: What's more "in-spec": Or Ciao ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] [on-topic]wireframes
Chris Kennon wrote: /Should lead to yet another tool, Visio or OmniGraffle, if so what is recommended on the MAC OS side? What's stopping you from creating the prototype boxes in XHTML + CSS? It has the added advantage of meaning that once you've got your layout, you've also got your document structure. Just add the content and remove the "border: 1px solid black;" properties and you're done. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mommy I Ate My Veggies
John Charlesworth wrote: I did a search on this newsgroup and couldn't find a URL. Is this available on the web? Thanks! .../j Well, I used the built-in CSS2.0 reference in Dreamweaver. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mommy I Ate My Veggies
Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, I'm sure this constitutes noise, but I had to say after 3 months I've finally finished reading the CSS 2.1 specification. I'm so happy. Have a great day/weekend all. Good for you :) ...But wouldn't it have just been easier to go over the selectors primer and learn the properties as you need them? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] SEO, Semantics, and Web Standards
'Lo again I recently paid a visit to a certain SEO forum and had a look at the forums there. Whilst reading the threads, I couldn't help but be shocked and appalled at the FUD being spread there. To quote one (altered slightly, so you guys can't reverse-google for it ;) ) "...yeah, it also helps to copy your meta keywords into a h1 tag at the top of your page and hide it wiv jscript" Naturally, that same person also seemed to have Mozilla and Firefox confused. The site had a few articles on how "ethical seo" 'doesn't work', and activly promotes bad practices, non-semantics, and praises HTML4.01 Transitional because "it lets you do anything you want!" There are claims that sites manually submitted to Google reduces your pagerank by a few points because it didn't find your site by being linked to it. It also has some kind of "comparison" between "ethical SEO" (a website that complied with spec (but not semantics, it still used the element and tables for layout, but it did validate), verses a "normal SEO" site (IE-DOM eat your heart out) and claimed that the latter site would get higher rankings in Google So can I hear it from the experts (ie: you guys) what the truth behind SEO really is. Are semantics worth anything? ...Is it worth sinking so low as to use 302s on Googlebot and display: none; on "keyword paragraphs", what about "mini-linkfarms" (a (not a ) full of hyperlinks to other pages on other sites full of similar content) just to get a slightly higher pagerank? IMHO, ranking is more dependant on your brand strength, rather than dirty and underhand tricks. Besides, I thought Google was a "semantic web" bot. Perhaps we should petition Google to produce a "Semantic Cralwer" that looks for a special HTTP Response Header or page telling the spider that the page is semantic and doesn't use any tricks. Comments? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] accessible ways to avoid spam
Hi Alan I prefer to use the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" method, as it's pretty self-explanatory and easier to understand that me[-at-]foo[-dot-]bar. There are other options, such as using a simple (ie: plaintext, no image-generation) CAPTCHA that then directs the site visitor to a page with the email address. Speaking of CAPTCHAs, can someone explain why we need image-based ones for blogsites and low-traffic sites? I seriously doubt that site spammers are going to write even the simplist of Visual Basic (or worse) to parse an XHTML file to extract a plaintext CAPTCHA. Since employing paintext CAPTCHAs on my sites, I haven't seen any increase in spam. -- -David R -- Original Message -- From: Alan Trick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:33:51 -0500 >I'm wondering if any of you have any tips on creative ways to keep >spambots from harvesting email addresses on you page, and still keep >then accessable to diabled people and text-browsers. Here's my thoughts > >* You could do something like me[AT]foo[DOT]bar but the problem with > this is that many none geeks are not familiar with this kind of > anti-spam thing and may give up trying to contact you when the get > a bounce back saying (surprise, surprise) me[AT]foo[DOT]bar does > not exist. >* You could do something like me style='display:none'>nospamplease@foo.bar, but this wouldn't > work for people without basic css support, and goes against some > basic accessabilty rules. >* You could use javascript, but then you block non-js users which is > no better than the above solution >* You could use an image, but then you have to decide what to put in > the alt attribute. If you put the address there then you pretty > much defeat the point of the image because i'm pretty sure most > (or enough) spambots can't take addresses from alt attributes. If > you don't, then you break accessability with text-browsers. > >Anyone else have any good solutions? >Alan Trick >** >The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help >** > > ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Subtractive Box model
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: You could do something like this: <http://dev.l-c-n.com/disp-table/equal-H-nav.php> Internet Explorer doesn't support "display: table-cell;" Can someone remind me why we use the additive box-model? It seems stupid to me, there's no real advantage. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Subtractive Box model
'Lo I'm trying to make a horizontal nav bar (semantic, naturally) In a nutshell: All list items have equal width and fill the container horizontally. But the container is of flexible width. And each li has 0.5em paddingAnd has a 1px border. Now, with the subtractive box-model, this would be achived simply: There's 6 items, so set the width to 16.6%, add a 1px border which is subtracted from 16.6%, then the 0.5em of padding. But this doesn't bode well with the additive box model in CSS2.1 So how exactly do I go around doing this? Regards -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS3.0
ByteDreams wrote: Thnks all. It seems the multiple background image ability is not supported in any of these browsers. I would have loved to try this out the most. I've just been reading the spec But I'm still unclear on one thing: Suppose you have a element and give it 5 background images and a background color: one bg image for each corner and a bottom gradient, with a background color to fill in the bits not overed by the bottom gradient. Suppose the corner images are rounded edges (PNG format) with alpha transparency. ...Wouldn't the background colour of the element show through the transparency of the image, thus rendering any round-corner images using transparency useless? ...Or does the spec call for the background image to be clipped where there's a background image? Or perhaps an attribute for the background-image property? "background-image-clips-bgcolor: true;" or something. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS3.0
Jan Brasna wrote: Maybe once when we'll all be old and CSS3 support will be common thing among the browsers, we'll be able to tell our children how this was complicated in our times... ;) "In MY day we had to recreate FOUR DIVS to get rounded corners! *spits* YOU don't appreciate the HARD WORK we had to do!" ;) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] " or " in copy?
I thought “ and “ were deprecated in HTML4. I use: ‘ = left single quote ’ = right single quote (apostrophe) “ = left double quote ” = right double quote etc. See http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm Doesn't this go against the "semantics" of XHTML? Use of entities in documents prevents the XHTML from being human-readable (of sorts... I'm not going to memorise the ASCII, Unicode, or UTF character tables) ...As well as adding to the document overhead? I mean, provided you send the document from the server as unicode, why must we resort to entities for non-reserved characters? (ie: <>&") -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] CSS3.0
Just out of curiosity... Is the CSS3.0 Spec finalised, or are they still accepting suggestions and comments? Because I really want to suggest "multiple background images" for CSS3.0 (provided it isn't suggested already) Where do I find the "Suggestion Box" for the W3C? ;) Regards -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 Confirmed
Also note that it will only be made available for XP. Everyone else will have to stay on IE6 or earlier. Carl. Windows XP now accounts for 60% of all Internet users now? I'll probably just put a notice up, telling people to download Firefox or Opera if they're on Pre-Windows XP or IE7.0 if they're on Windows XP. However, watch out if a large % of your site visitors are corporate or academic (K-12), many schools and companies don't update their WWW software unless its like 6 months overdue. I'm sure we all have experiences with schools and the like still running Flash 5. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] " or " in copy?
But officially when " isn't being used to delimit attribute values it
must be written in entity form: "
Reference?
My bad...
XHTML1.1 derives from XHTML1.0 Strict which derives from HTML4.01 Strict
...Which mentions this about quote entities:
---
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/charset.html#h-5.3.2
---
Four character entity references deserve special mention since they are
frequently used to escape special characters:
* "<" represents the < sign.
* ">" represents the > sign.
* "&" represents the & sign.
* "" represents the " mark.
...
Some authors use the character entity reference """ to encode
instances of the double quote mark (") since that character may be used
to delimit attribute values.
---
So its official... its not required in HTML4.01, but sort-of 'recommended'.
I couldn't find anything about it in XHTML1.1, but imho, I wouldn't risk it.
--
-David R
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] " or " in copy?
Chris W. Parker wrote: Hello, Is there a reason I should be using " (or any other HTML entity) within regular tags like , , , etc.? I know I have to use them when they are to be displayed within a form field but within regular copy I'm not seeing it as necessary. What is the consesus on this? I'm guessing you mean like this: Well, no... " is only meant to be used to delimit attribute values, you /might/ get away with using it insice body text: hello, he said "hello" to me yesterday But officially when " isn't being used to delimit attribute values it must be written in entity form: " HTH -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] valid tracker code
designer wrote: Do any of you wizards know of a (free) tracker which actually validates when used with xhtml strict? Or indeed, ANY tracker with valid code? Many thanks, You don't need to use the code trackers give you, they work by making visitors to your site download an image from their servers, they then count the number of times the image was downloaded. Mangle the code all you want, they have no way of knowing what you've done, just so long as remains. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE7 Confirmed
Andrew Krespanis wrote: On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:21:58 -, Kornel Lesinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No... he used word "compatibility", which means that all bugs must remain untouched. Here's a quote from the press release: "Internet Explorer 7.0, designed to add new levels of security to Windows XP SP2 while maintaining the level of extensibility and compatibility that customers have come to expect." Sounds like the bugs are staying -- "maintain compatibility" is synonomous with "leave the bugs alone" in MS terms :( Possibly. But what about DocType overriding? They can correct CSS2.1 handling for strict and XHTML doctypes whilst maintaining non-compliant sites who continue to use the HTML4.01 (and prev) DTDs. Of course, adding support for the "application/xhtml+xml" MIME-type wouldn't do any harm. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] IE7 Confirmed
...Straight from Scoble's blog: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/02/15.html#a9441 This should prove interesting -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] IE fixed: PNG transparency working like Firefox???
JW wrote: Hi, A developer on my project showed me a site with a lot of PGNs using alpha transparency. Formely we had to include a piece of javascript to get it working the way we want in IE 6.x Since the last patchday it seems that IE 6.x got a security update that fixed the alpha transparency issues as well. Is there some one who can verify our findings? Regards, JW http://pomtiedom.com I posted this on Channel9, many of the IE devs regularly post there as well Here's the responses so far: http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=40863 Doesn't look like Are you sure you're not getting confused with PNG8 w/ Index Transparency? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Site Review...
'Lo Just made a couple of "minisites" all mostly buzzword compliant, just requesting comments :) http://www.w3bdevil.com/scripts/ http://www.w3bdevil.com/turkeys/ And can I just get some feedback on this older site of mine... http://www.w3bdevil.com/planetearth N.B: I'm aware that /turkeys/ won't validate because I'm still debugging my CMS... I've been having database issues Ciao! -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [ADMIN] thread closed Re: [WSG] SEO - price
Lea de Groot wrote: This is offtopic Can I ask anyone with something to add to reply offlist? But you'd all figured that out already, hadn't you? ;) Lea Whops... I just got this message after I sent a reply to the thread Sorry! -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] SEO - price
dotcompals wrote: Hello friends, I want to give out some of my websites for SEO(search engine iptimization). Can I know what is the market rate for SEO per site & what will be time frame to get the results. regards SEO doesn't really exist ...As far as any real gains go, the most you can do to an existing template is add appropriate title="", alt="", and elements SEO companies that "claim" massive increases in search results actually create link-farms to your site that give you plenty of googlejuice, fortunately Google's cottoned on to this plan and linkfarms no-longer have the desired effect they used to. The only way to create true SEO is to have a site built from scratch with accessibility, standards compliance, and "best practice" compliance. Okay... there is a way you can "cheat", using any given server-side technology to show/hide a region to the Googlebot that contains more relevant information ...However, Googlebot is known to trawl the web with the IE6 UI string and they compare returned results (supposedly), so I don't really recommend said action. HTH -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] First Thoughts On Layout...
Chris Stratford wrote: What are your first thoughts? I think I could "pwn j00" at CS-S :) Thanks!! Oh, nice layout, but I can't see any image replacement, and I'm not sure about setting the menu font to bold on hover... I'd change the background instead Fonts scale nicely Overall... 9/10 Lost points on aesthetics of your page's header, not sure if it all co-ordinates Ciao! -- -David R aka "W3bbo" on Steam ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Emulating min-width
'Lo guys
I'm just looking for comments on a concept I thought for emulating
min-width in IE:
Content
#elementToHaveMinWidth {
width: 40%;
}
#minWidthMaker {
width: 620px;
}
The end result being a div#elementToHaveMinWidth never going below 620px
width
I guess the same could be used to create min-height:
Content
#elementToHaveMinHeight {
height: 80%;
}
#minHeightMaker {
float: right;
height: 620px;
width: 1px;
}
br {
clear: both;
}
I was just wondering if this broke anything?
Comments?
--
-David R
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Mark Stanton wrote: Basically don't waste your time trying to out smart a company with that many PHDs and that much R&D budget. There are good ways of getting results in Google without silly tricks that will get you banned. Write good content, get good links. ...Yet they can't produce a single standards-compliant page? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] cover me, I have a flash question
Ted Drake wrote: Hello all I could only find a reference to the php version on alistapart. Does anyone know where I could find this? Has anyone had any experience using it? Any feedback or suggestions? Shaun Inman (http://www.shauninman.com) uses it a lot, he's got an article or two about it on his site AFAIK/IIRC -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Darren Wood wrote: if your site is good then people will link to it, if lots of people link to it then google will be more inclined to like your site too. Thats how the concept of "googlejuice" works anyway, the more links a page has pointing to it, the higher up it gets ...Which can be a bummer at times, I've been looking through my logs to see what people are searching for when they land on my site, turns out I usually come #2 or #3 with some major site as #1, even though their content was less relevant to the search query. Should I, perhaps, put an impasioned plea on my site: "Please help this site, not by clicking the adverts (because there arn't any), but by linking back to me for free googlejuice" ...Its worth a shot -- -David R Cheers D Ryan Sabir wrote: Hey all, Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take any notice of CSS? We have known for a long time that is you have a text coloured the same as its background then search engines will consider this as an attempt to fool them, and lower your pages ranking... but what about doing the same thing with CSS? There would be so many ways to hide text with css, setting display to none, setting the background colour, pushing the padding up so the text gets pushed out of the element, etc... Someone could develop their page full of 's with dodgy keywords, and simply not display the content of those H1's. We are always told the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content would be given high relevance. I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? thanks all, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton St Paddington 2021 Sydney, Australia Ph (02) 9331 2133 Fax (02) 9331 5199 Mobile: 0411 512 454 http://www.newgency.com/index.cfm?referer=rysig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Express Youself
Chris Kennon wrote: top:expression(body.scrollTop + 4 + "px"); I'm unfamiliar with CSS expressions. Can someone point me to a source that has been used by list members. Also doesn't this contradict the effort of separation of code and content? CSS Expressions arn't standard :) ...They're a propriety "extension" brought in by Microsoft, they did submit it for proposal, but it was declined, it is a good idea (in paper) though But since IE is the only browser that supports it, its not worth using unless you need the functionality provided by CSS2.1, such as max-width, min-width, max-height, etc... that Trident IV doesn't support. (Trident IV is the name of the current "MSHTML" rendering engine) ...But best to keep "extensions" in an IE-only stylesheet hidden by conditional comments and the like, thus keeping the rest of your code valid -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help on file extensions used
dotcompals wrote: Dear friends, Can any one help me with the extension used these days in some we pages. For example .gne (flickr.com) .pyra & .do (blogger.com). How can these extensions be created & what are its advantages? regards Its a server side thing. There are no advantages for the client or browser, all that matters is that the appropriate MIME/ContentType is sent. Of course, if you want custom extensions, just use Apache's mod_rewrite or IIS' ISAPI_Rewrite(). -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Any ASP.Net standards people here?
Kornel Lesinski wrote: Coder that wrote that didn't have any idea of web standards and he said that it's generally impossible to make this code cleaner. Can DataGrids have for headers? Don't use DataGrids, they're horribly uncompliant, its not overly hard to write your own Custom Server Control that replaces it Do labels have to be ? Only use if you want to programmattically set CSS positioning properties, otherwise use or the .InnerHTML property of the base HtmlControl class (provided you've runnat'd the containing tag) Does it have to insert everywhere? ...News to me, that sounds like a problem with the IDE Does it have to make "javascript:" urls? Thats to do with Postback... I never rely on Postback and Viewstate or Runatt'd elements, just use "If Not (Request.Querystring Is Nothing) Then", it works essentially the same, although you will have to redefine control .Text and .InnerHtml properties Most asp.net+standards articles describe lengthy and hacky ways to force ASP to output XHTML, but maybe there is a simple way just to make it semantic HTML4 Strict? Yes... Most of the problems with web-standards with ASP.Net come from the System.Web.UI.WebControl classes, provided you stay away from those, you retain complete control. The only exceptions being the WebControl.Repeater and WebControl.Literal classes, which are perfectly fine HTH -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Containers and frames
designer wrote: Hi Robin, Title link link2 link3 I thought that the and elements had to come in pairs? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Any ASP.Net standards people here?
I was just wondering if there are any ASP.Net developers on the list other than me... If there are, you're probably aware of the issues involved with working with ASP.Net, such as the server-controls, and the engine overriding the ID="" attribute for elements that have been 'runnated'. ...And any techniques you use to maintain full control over the code (Btw, if any of you are there, do you have much experience with the ASP.Net 1.1 implementation of Master pages?) Ciao! -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] XHTML 1.0 Strict and PHP
The Bo$$ wrote: What about frames? Use ID too? #1: Don't use frames untill XFrames comes out and gets supported #2: You don't need to give any element an ID attribute unless you're doing either a runat="server" or doing ECMA/DOM interactivity with it -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sound without Plug-in/HTML Sound?
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: berry wrote: Can we add sound without using a plug-in and still being compatible with the different browsers? In a word, no. AFAIK, You can... http://www.yourdomain.tld"/audio/your.snd"; type="MIME/GoesHere" /> ...Thats only from the top of my head, you'll have to check to see if it works, of course, but that should work in browsers that interpret the tag appropriatley -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Future XHTML Proposals?
Hey guys (once again) I was thinking about your stereotypical Angelfire / Tripod user, the "beginner hobbyist". Typically, these people start off with HTML3.2 or HTML4.01 Transitional, as these are the most flexible, however they also lead to bad practices later on. Have a look at the latest spec ...Then ask yourself why so many people don't want to use this spec I asked on such individual: "XHTML is too restrictive, how am I supposed to layout pages if I can't use tables?" I think the W3C needs to produce more flavors of XHTML than just the single specification... I'm thinking more along the lines of: "XHTML 2.0 - Simple" "XHTML 2.0 - Contracted Tags + Attributes" "XHTML 2.0 - Complete" Where the "Simple" edition is a vastly simplified version where there's less emphasis on content/presentation separation, such as greater support for attribute styles and perhaps a element? Where each has a "Context Order" informing screen-readers in what order to read the content? I was also thinking of bandwidth conservation, especilly with the mobile device market, and thought up a variant of XHTML where only the essential elements are included, and represented using the minimum of letters, ditto for their attributes Say we want a table with a width of 100px and 2 rows and 3 columns: Note my use of my proposed "universal closing tag" '' Just out of curiosity... how do I get things like these formalised into an RFC Document and sent to the W3C for review? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Footers
Kim Kruse wrote: Hi David, Couldn't you take the footer out of the wrapper... footer stuff No, because the height of the wrapper isn't affected by the height of the sidebars because they're positioned absolutely. I've tried making all 3 columns floats, but I'm stuck, because my center column is a "fill region", and I'm unable to replicate this with "all floats" ...Looks like I'll have to restructure my XHTML then :/ Although ASP.Net's User Controls do make it a LOT easier to do this on a site-wide basis -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] CSS Footers
Hey guys I'm in a muddle here... I'm using CSS to absolutely position my columns, because if I floated them I'd have to re-order my XHTML structure: Presently its like this: (uber-simplification) Loads of these Lorem Ipsum Loads of these too Etc... Footer info With CSS specifying that #nav and #sidebar have definite width and positioned absolutely to left: 0; and right: 0; respectivly. Thing is, when the content of div#content is shorter than the height of either div#navbar or div#sidebar then the footer overlaps either sidebar. I've tried setting both div#wrapper to "min-height: 100%" but no change is observed. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting elements to "clear" floating boxes? Regards -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: Advantage of word-wrapping?
I was referring to wrapping text on the markup site:
Like so:
Hello, this is
wrapped, like so,
do you see?
rather than:
Hello, this is wrapped, like so, do you see?
In both cases, UAs will render the content exactly the same... I was
wondering if there were any advantages to the former... I heard
something about some obscure UAs ignoring content beyond the 80th Column
or something
--
-David R
Jeroen Visser [ vizi ] wrote:
The most important situation in which word-wrapping is useful is with
justified text. Good word-wrapping prevents awkward word spacing in such
text, rendering it more legible.
There are a few pittfalls though, with word-wrapping: it is language
dependent and browsers are basically morons with regard to text-handling
in general and word-wrapping in particular.
The only element I know to provide predictable word-wrapping is [wbr],
but this is a non-XHTML element, thus needing a modified DTD which
includes this element. And then again: [wbr] doesn't add a hyphen when a
word is actually wrapped, so it is mainly useful in wrapping URL's and
the like. The soft-hyphen () is sometimes used for wrapping
purposes, but it was never intended for such use and produces
unpredictable results across browsers.
Word-wrapping will only become a viable online typesetting option when
browsers are capable of tapping into an OS provided spelling/wrapping/
grammar system. In such a situation, I can imagine a browser actually
picking up [lang=""] attributes in mark-up to switch between wrapping
rules and authors only needing to specify 'on' or 'off' for
word-wrapping, e.g. through: p { word-wrap: (auto|no-wrap); }.
Until then, I just don't use any justified texts online. ;-)
Jeroen
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Re: [WSG] double space after period
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: I couldn't think of any way to do it in css. The only way would be , but that's fairly annoying. AFAIK, the all the non-markup specific entities (ie: the ones that aren't: ", &, <, >) have been depreciated, if not removed, from XHTML2.0 since being based on XML means Unicode should be used. ...Including the I'm guessing that XHTML2.0/XML will respect multiple whitespace when within an inline container or paragraph, so " " would be valid. But grammatically it isn't in British English or American English. MS Word does support "two spaces after periods", so I'm guessing that some obscure country uses this system. I do have a relevant question relating to this problem: Is there any advantage in word-wrapping markup'd paragraphs? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] ECMAScript collapsible Menu System
Neerav wrote: read on at http://juicystudio.com/ecmascriptmenu.asp Looking good. However just being the nit-pick I am, might I suggest you enclose the list headers in tags? ...And I'm not enirely sure about the "click opens, another closes the same" system, compared to "open another and the previous one closes" -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Table v Container Development
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: Depending on the amount of hits they get, the bandwidth limits they have, etc. Whilst its always nice to include such information in our propaganda we hand out to clients, we do have to maintain a realist stance sometimes... most of our clients are small businesses and otherwise non-enterprise grade companies, their websites are not going to be 1000 hits a minute e-business solutions, most hosting companies have bandwidth limits of around 25-50GB a month, and its very hard to reach that limit through XHTML alone, you'll be lucky to serve even 4GB of XHTML, CSS, and images a month, imho. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] newbie with popup menus question
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: I don't know much about the code created by Fireworks, but I am sure somebody else can comment on that for you. 33KB Generated JavaScript library included, a required download for the menus to work. Fireworks creates a table using images or formatted text for each menu item. The total overhead is usually around 40KB+, add 500 bytes for each menu item you add as well -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] newbie with popup menus question
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: Well, the dropdowns won't show up if Javascript in IE is turned off. There is a workaround Set the CSS to show the drop-downs by default (as a horizontal list... so it doesn't skew the layout as much), then have JavaScript to change the class to the Suckerfish default of "display: none;" this way people with JavaScript disabled can access the menus, and the virtues of using semantic XHTML mean that accessible UAs can access the menus too. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] .php extension
csslist wrote: is the page titled index.php or default.php? if so then u need to have the host set up your site to look for either one by default and also flush the cash u should also take a look at coldfusion ;) Apache has index.html/php as the default document, IIS opts for "default.htm/asp/aspx" Both of these can easily be overrriden, however. ColdFusion works in a similar (and simpler) way to ASP.Net's Server-Controls, in that you sacrifice control over the exported HTML in exchange of ease-of-development. The difference in DotNet being that its easier to create your own controls -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] no more width and height?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, width and height attributes for images allow the image to load faster because the browser doesn't have to figure out the dimensions. News to me... the browser works out the dimensions of the image anyway. Including the width and height attributes has advantages, however... as it allows browsers to set out the dimensions of the page before the image loads, meaning that there's no more skew-wiff web-page layouts as the image loads. This shouldn't really affect us, the standards people, but it does affect those who still rely on the evil of: /> ...Not that I'd ever write anything like that ;) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] empty named anchors
Andy Kirkwood | MOTIVE wrote: I have come across a couple of instances of this where headings have been enclosed in an anchor, i.e. Heading text This causes the text colour of the heading to change when moused-over (although not a link). From an interface perspective this can be quite confusing. (A feedback cue that suggests interaction is possible when it is not). This is why a:link:hover and a:visited:hover are preferable over simple a:link :) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] no more width and height?
I don't think the width="" or height="" attributes of the or elements will be depreciated any time soon, if not at all. Despite being related to presentation, they lean more towards the content. Certain media types have no specified dimensions, what about certain SWF files? They will remain optional attributes, imo, with their use at the discretion of the author of the page or of the developer of the plugin/applet. -- -David R Kevin Francis wrote: Hi Ted The width/height aren't a requirement in XHTML Transitional/Strict. I don't think this means the W3C don't want us to use them any more, just that you don't have to. I've heard a few people mention the page building thing before, but I think good image compressions and less mark-up will negate this suggested side effect. The only time I've came across problems is in MacIE, and that's only when using images 1px high; which isn't usualy a problem. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] .php extension
Alternativly, if you're running IIS, the ISAPI bindings are on the ISAPI-Extensions tab of the Dir/Virtual property sheet. You can also manage these from the Site property sheets. -- -David R Dave Elkan wrote: You have to edit your httpd.conf file to process files of the .html suffix. Look for the line: AddType application/x-httpd-php .php make it: AddType application/x-httpd-php .html .php Easy!! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Re: [WD]: How Do I Learn to do Website Design?
Bruce wrote: I was just at dreamweaver website. Templates. No doctype, tables, imagemaps and javascript. God forbid. Randomly choosing four of them and viewing source showed me quite enough. Lets go backwards??? Font face font size the whole works of what we are trying to get rid of. Someone new would be wasting their time using on of these, and would learn nothing that wouldn't have to be unlearned. Those sites arn't targetting pro-standards people (well obviously), but neither anyone remotely interested in HTML. The typical consumer of templates is your off-the-shelf web-hosting provider and your common-or-garden CounterStrike clan. The former do tend to be better designed and coded, however. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Features
What URI? ;) -- -David R Chris Kennon wrote: Hi, At the following url would someone suggest additional accessibility features for an audience with varying physical and emotional disabilities. My concern is that the current features will not be as flexible as desired. CK __ "Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do." ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] User Preference Script
Tony Aslett wrote: Hi All, I would love some feedback on a User Preference Script http://www.csscreator.com/generator/userpref.php Reports of support from Mac browser and early IE would be especially useful to me at the moment. Please provide responses Off List unless you think others would benefit from it in some way. Personally, I don't see the point in JavaScript-powered style switchers when Server-Side works better... more people have first-party cookies enabled than JavaScript. -- --David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help - newbie
Paul wrote: I have been writing html code for awhile now and and starting to realize how inaccessible and non-web compliant my pages are. I have always hand written code in Edit Plus 2, is there a better editor I can use for web standards ( like Dreamweaver MX ? ) and where should I start for tips on accessibility and standards compliance. I know this sounds highly hypocritical, but if you wait 'till August, Visual Studio 2005 looks attractive... we've been assured of complete XHTML1.1 and full CSS2.1 support. You can get it quite cheaply on a student license, usually at around £80 (considering it usually costs around £800 ;) ), but if you need something urgently, I'd use HomeSite... it comes with Dreamweaver MX (although the RDS Driver installed with it can make a mess of your system) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] background-image:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This site seems to do it http://www.qrow.com/home.php How about this ALA article? http://www.alistapart.com/articles/imagemap/ -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Should we be thankful for IE's non-development?
Its a problem plaguing web-standards enthusiasts much like ourselves for years, which is IE's lack of compliance. But consider... what if Microsoft did keep on updating its HTML Parser and Rendering engines? ...Theoretically, wouldn't we be in a worse-off state, with even more non-standard properties? IE's non-development has created a kind of "level-off", where practically everyone is now using IE6. If IE kept on being updated, many users would be "lost" in the continual upgrades and just give up, potentially leaving many back on older versions, with varying levels of support. Granted, whilst we could design for the lowest-common-factor, which in all likeliness would be IE5.0, we wouldn't be able to exploit the advantages of IE7.0 if it were around. Granted, whilst IE6.0's standards support isn't 100%, its better than Nav4, and since over 85% of the web-browsing public run it, should we be glad? ...Compared to 7 years ago when obscure browsers were still mainstream. Who remembers Mosaic? It was still popular in 1997 Irrelevant comparison, perhaps... but would we be worse-off if IE7.0 really did exist ...Considering Microsoft's upgrade policy, if it did, IE7.0 would probably be limited to users of Windows XP, which still only account for 66% of WWW users. Food for thought -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Required by Depreciated attributes
Kornel Lesinski wrote: Ignore XHTML/1.1. Removal of start is a mistake. Start is dropped in favor of CSS2.1 generated content counters, which are currently supported only by Opera. I've since done some reading into the matter, yes, 'tis a shame... Isn't the XHTML2.0 working group still in session? Could we email them with our suggestions? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Required by Depreciated attributes
'Lo I'm in a pickle... I've got an , and one of the 's 's contains another Like so: Hello World! Sublist Hello Again End... Thing is, I need the "ol li ol" element to start at a specified number. The HTML4.01 spec says I can use the start="" attribute, but that its depreciated... So what replaces the start="" attribute in XHTML1.1? I couldn't see anything in CSS about it. Regards -- -David ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Popups
Hi guys
Thanks for the tips, I think I'll opt for the show/hide region option.
Just one more thing...
For when you ever have links that open in a new window, it helps to have
that little image, would this be appropriate: ?
a[onclick="newwindow()"] {
padding: 10px;
background: url("newwindow.png") no-repeat 0 0;
}
Cheers
--
-David
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Re: [WSG] Slightly OT... Interview with IE Dev team
Sorry for bringing up this (really) dead thread But I finally got a response from the press team... suffice to say it wasn't what I wanted to hear: Brian Peterson wrote: Hi David, Thank you for the additional information and I appreciate your patience with this request. However, I just heard back from my colleagues, and unfortunately, I'm afraid we are unable to participate in this particular opportunity at this time. I apologize for the inconvenience. Best regards, Brian Ah well... Say next time we all gang up and pose as C|Net? ;) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] iframe and HTML 401 strict.
Bert Doorn wrote: berry wrote: If you want to use iframes, use a Transitional or Frameset doctype. For similar functionality in Strict, use object: Text here for older browsers (perhaps a link to vide.htm) IFrames have made a comeback in XHTML1.1 if you include the IFrame DTD module. Just do this: http://yourdomain/xhtml-11-iframe.dtd";> where "xhtml-11-iframe.dtd" is a plain text file containing this string: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd"; > %xhtml11.mod; PUBLIC "-//W3C//ELEMENTS XHTML Inline Frame Element 1.0//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/DTD/xhtml-iframe-1.mod";> %xhtml-iframe.mod; The document will then validate. HTH -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: Are forms tabular data? (was Re: [WSG] Can I use a table in a form?)
Iain Gardiner wrote: They are only "semantically correct" when used within specific contexts. Too many people confuse semantics (the implicit meaning of markup) with valid html (correct code). They are two completely different sides of the same coin. If it doesn't matter to you, then you're a member of the wrong list. Lets not start a flame war ;) Tables are used to define data, data sets, results, and "columnar" information. DefLists () are strictly for the listing of defintions, its generally accepted practice to use this element for information displayed in "title/content" pairs. And fieldsets are used to group related input fields. Consider that Tables are equally qualified to display information in "title/content" format, this is how databases store information, and from a glance, an Excel spreadsheet is no different from a database's dataview, or a table containing the same data. Real-world(tm) forms, such as Tax Returns, are often layouted in a "tabular" manner... see for yourself, its tax-season in the states right now (AFAIK). But at the same time, a could be used, as virtually all the questions on a tax return are in the "Question: Write/Choose your answer" format. Don't accuse me of confusing semantics with valid code, I think I know the difference. It seems you're the one confusing me with a beginner in the field. I'm not an idealist, I'm a realist, and in the real world, it doesn't make a difference regarding semantics, accessibility, rendering/apperance or usability in general. All are equally valid! -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: Are forms tabular data? (was Re: [WSG] Can I use a table in a form?)
Ryan Nichols wrote: To me tabular means...tabular. Take a look at most real-world forms. DMV, tax forms, you name it. Mostly all tabular. The form is broken up into logical groups / cells indicating a relationship of relationship through the structure. Yes I know fieldsets also create a group/relationship of form fields, but point being the motif of forms in a tabular format has been around and used for a long time. Here's a better thought: "Does it matter?" Fieldsets, DefLists, and Tables are ALL semantically correct, and they don't make a difference to way both graphical and accessible agents render the content. Can we call this resolved now? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Navigation Help
James Oppenheim wrote: Currently I am using CSS for the dropdowns and javascript for the rollovers. However, the rollovers do not stay active when the mouse is on the dropdown! How could I achieve this effect with standards compliant code? See ALA's "Sucker Fish dropdowns" http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns HTH -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Tracking and Validation
My apologies for posting this on-list, but I can't get through to Lori via direct email. I got an "undeliverable mail" error... -- Hi Lori If the gnerated logfiles are in "Extended W3C Format" then you're in luck, there are many logfile parsers around. I've even written my own, its not hard really Of course, if you're looking for an already-decent parser, I recommend "WeblogExpert" http://www.weblogexpert.com/ It reads all common formats, including default Apache, IIS, W3C-Extended, and others The logfiles are generally plain-text, you should be able to open them in Notepad, VI, or whatever utility Apple provided for OS-X ;) The advantage of logfiles over server-side or client-side processing is that it incurs no overhead or relying on your clients to have JavaScript enabled. My host provides me with (slightly abridged... they omitted a few constant fields, like "server IP address", as this is reported for every request made to the server, and that obviously isn't going to change (the IP address, that is), so it reduces file-size at the end of the day. However, my host only retains the last 5 days in logs, after that they get deleted... As a result, I have a simple VBS file for Windows that automatically gets the logfiles every 4 days. Saves me a lot of trouble that way :), I can give it to you if you want. -- -David R Lori Leach wrote: David -- Thanks for that. I am mailing offlist as I don't want my head bitten off for being off topic I DO have the logs set up, and have access to the .log file. So, how the heck to I read them? Lori Leach ZenfulCreations http://www.zenfulcreations.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Tracking and Validation
Lori Leach wrote: is there a tracker that I can use that will still allow my page to validate? Server Logs. IIS is configured to produce logs by default, not sure about Apache. Any questions? Raise it with your host... Most are capable of providing raw logfiles. They have the advantage of providing EVERYTHING those trackers did, plus loads more besides But depending on how your server is configured, of course. HTH -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] list spacing
Dean | eCreate wrote:
How do I set the spacing between items in an unordered (or ordered) list?
Thanks,
Dean
You can only set the padding and margin properties if the LI element is
block or inline-block. Not inline, I'm afraid. (AFAIK!)
ul (or ol) li {
display: block;
padding: 0.5em;
margin: 1.5em;
}
HTH
--
-David R
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**
Re: [WSG] Connditional Comment / @import Problem in IE 5.0.1
MSDN calls for , which is what I am using. And... since I'm just stating [if IE], this really shouldn't be isolated to IE 5.0.1. Its preferable to use
[WSG] Transparent PNGs in IE
"Yet another of 'those' threads"
Yep!
In a quickie... here's my document structure:
The Element is repeated by the server. And Image.png has index-like
transparency.
And the appropriate CSS (for IE... Standards Compliant browsers get a
different CSS file)
.list-tiles {
border: 1px solid yellow;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
list-style: none;
}
.list-tiles li {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
display: inline; }
.list-tiles li a {
padding: 1px; margin: 0;
border: none;
}
.list-tiles li a:hover {
padding: 0;
border: 1px solid green;
}
.list-tiles li a img {
margin: 0;
padding: 7px;
margin: auto;
border: none;
width: 100px;
height: 100px;
background: no-repeat center center;
}
(the borders are there for edge finding, except for the a:hover, which
is my desired effect)
I'm using the Sleight JavaScript to get IE6 to render the PNG files, but
there's a problem
...IE ignores the padding and margins oe the img and its container, the
AlphaImageLoader only supports scaling the image to fit the dimensions
of the img element... which makes the image element bigger than the
114px specified.
"crop" places the image in the top left hand corner, as does "image",
thus ignoring the "center center" rule I've defined for the background.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Re: [WSG] problem with gradient and background in IE/Win
Thorsten wrote: in the Fox, the transition between the gradient and the background-color is seamless while in IE/Win (5/5.5/6) the colors suddenly don't match anymore. please disregard the slightly mangled layout. any ideas? This is because Internet Explorer's PNG handling is broken, I think it only affects systems with an ICC profile on a monitor. convert the gradient to a JPEG and it should render fine, as well as in much older browsers. JPEG is better suited to gradients anyway, PNG is GIF's replacement. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Advice on updating a site
Ryan Sabir wrote: When you look at that home page, and maybe 1 or 2 of the forum index pages, does that say 'table' based layout to you? Or would it make more sense to find a way to represent the main pages without using tables. To me that looks like a table, but I haven't been doing this for that long and you guys might have a different perspective on it. Forum listings and post lists count as tabular data (after all, they're expressed in practically the same way in the database powering the forums) I see no problems with using tables to define the forums, but everything else will need to be , whether thats a bad thing or not, I leave up to you. The page could do with a code overhaul... the HTML took 4 seconds to download @ 512k ADSL -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] ATO - shame shame shame...
Terrence Wood wrote: Chris, you probably can sue them, but it may well be better to contact them directly, point out the error of their ways and offer to fix it for them. Hmmm What would result in the bigger monetary gain though? Suing them, or them paying you to fix it? Or do both and collect twice! :p ...Kidding :) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] ATO - shame shame shame...
Chris Stratford wrote: Can I sue the ATO over this - like the SOCOG case. Deary me... The government has failed again... :) Depends on what laws the austrailian government has in place for web accessability for government sites. If this was a US or UK government site, then yes... I'm guessing austrailian legal stature is very similar. But I'd definatly raise it with them. I can't stand web'masters' who create javascript popups telling me I have a "downlevel" browser. Since when was IE ever superior to Firefox, Konqueror, or Safari? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Slightly OT... Interview with IE Dev team
A respondant to Roger's blog wrote: Microsoft is not improving standards support in IE because they want to discourage the use of the browser as a platform for developing applications that are not operating system dependant. Improving support for CSS, PNG, and other standards such as Xforms, etc. would only make the browser a better application platform. It doesn’t matter if Microsoft owns the browser market. If developers switch over to creating standards based web applications Microsoft loses control of their customers. Standards based web applications can be easily run in competing browsers and, yes, even on competing operating systems. I disagree... Look at Hotmail... that's an example of Microsoft's vision for web-applications 4 years ago... and Hotmail relies on CSS and DOM JavaScript for many of its functions anyway. Microsoft has been hyping about web-applications more than you'd imagine, the MSDN Library is full of articles on the subject. 3 of the included posters in the 2003 edition are about web-applications. But I'm convinced Microsoft will make IE7 support standards... why? Because VS 2005 supports the entire XHTML1.1 and CSS2.1 spec, even if Internet Explorer 6 doesn't. This would be wasting the VS dev team's time if they weren't going to make these features available commonplace in a short while. See: http://www.asp.net/whidbey/whitepapers/VSWhidbeyOverview.aspx?tabindex=0&tabid=1 (scroll down to "Better Standards Support" (near the bottom... and please, no cynical remarks about "leaving the least to the last") There was another page with more information, but I've since lost the URI -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Intro and first question
Mordechai Peller wrote: The fact is the "onclick" is misnamed; a more accurate name would be "onactivate" since it's triggered by both the mouse and keyboard. Indeed, considering the W3C's push of XHTML as a truly platform agnostic system. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Interesting Doctype: anyone seen something like that before?
"Only the terrible workman blames his tools" - Common proverb 'nuff said really. Okay... so the developer has no plans to follow web-standards, why are we wasting our time on this? Secondly, he _could_ care about web-standards so much as not to guise his document as a validating one by using a W3C DTD. Pehaps he hasn't the time to code it by hand? And re: Dreamweaver. Right now I'm forced to use Dreamweaver MX 2004, I hate the MDI interface, I hate the flashing pallets, I hate the UI "effects", I hate the propriety ASP.Net controls it comes with when you're doing some RAD work (I code stuff like that up by hand in VisualStudio after the RAD/Prototyping, but because Dreamweaver uses compiled assemblies, its harder to tell whats going on) I'd have prefered to stick with MX 2002, but it kept on crashing on me and it didn't handle Big-Endian and other obscure encoding methods correctly, (for some reason it inserted a soft-linewrap after every letter, despite explicit settings stating NEVER to soft-linewrap) Besides, its only really beginners that use Dreamweaver to generate the code. I use it for its HTML view, better than VisualStudios... by a long shot, but it is catching up, however. (They've got the code outline view now). -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Slightly OT... Interview with IE Dev team
'Lo guys After being instigated by Channel9 (http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=34005 (And I'm W3bbo, btw)) I managed to get through to one of Microsoft's PR "interview-arrangers" people. I was wondering if any of you have any specific questions, queries, or comments regarding the development of IE, and more specifically, IE7 which may, or may not, come with Longhorn (before... if we're lucky) Regards -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines/Spiders and SSIs
Ben Curtis wrote: In fact, I serve all my ColdFusion pages as .html because I migrated a static site to ColdFusion and it was easier to tell Apache to send .html file to ColdFusion than to change all the extensions and links. Wouldn't that cause a processing overhead if you ever wanted to serve a non CFML page? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines/Spiders and SSIs
Collin Davis wrote: Google can, and others are going to be joining them soon. It's a simple matter of using the Flash Search Engine SDK - it includes an application called swf2html which dumps out text and links from .swf files and returns as html. When I put Flash in my documents, I am guilty of serving different content to Google and other bots. I do a simple "show region" that contains the HTML equivalent of the Flash content. Not that I do anything like that anymore, aparently Googlebot indexes you site twice...once using the Googlebot UA string, and again using the MSIE6 UA string and notes the differences. *takes off tin-foil hat* ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines/Spiders and SSIs
JohnyB wrote: Right... The bot can't find out, if the page is a static HTML file or dynamically generated output by some sort of server-side technology... One can easily establish that by looking at the HTTP response times, the file extension (if content negotiation, NSAPI/ISAPI filters, or HTTPRequestHandlers aren't enabled) Or just by timing the request... if the response took longer than a static HTML document did then one can assume that it was generated by a server (of course, network lag can play a part, but generally the server sends the HTTP header confirming receipt of the request ASAP, as to prevent the client from going all "timed outty" at the server and closing the connection.) With ASP.Net being the exception of course, memory-recalled and compiled pages can sometimes be loaded faster than static HTML. But this shouldn't concern SEO people. The important thing is to minimize use of "traditional" HTTP GET querystrings, as many engines ignore URLs beginning with them, which is to say... use negociated URLs (such as "www.domain.tld/pages/somepage/somequery" rather than "www.domain.tld/pages.cfml?somepage&somefield=somequery") HTH -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shedding Holiday Pounds
David R wrote: And 800x600 resolution can be useful for detail work in Photoshop or Illustrator when you're using a small resolution My bad, I meant "when you're using a small screen" -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Shedding Holiday Pounds
The Bo$$ wrote: If you can, you should try switching to a bigger resolution. It's much better, and you'll wonder how you ever survived using 800x600. My guess is that he tested it at 800x600 res, which makes perfect sense. And 800x600 resolution can be useful for detail work in Photoshop or Illustrator when you're using a small resolution ...Or when you're completely (shall we say "intoxicated"? ;) ) and you don't want to squint to see text (you could always increase font size, but not all windows applications respect the custom DPI setting. (Control Panel > Display > Settings > Advanced > General > Custom DPI) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Need help with the list style
Ted Drake wrote: I didn't see it on another computer, but it keeps showing up on my screen. I've hit shift-refresh. Perhaps it is just a bug on my box. Is there a better way to refresh the css cache on IE? Thanks Te IE and Firefox's "complete reload" shortcut key combo is "Ctrl + F5" AFAIK/IIRC, It was Netscape (pre-Mozilla) that used "Shift + F5" If you want to save time, just change the HTTP headers of your server to set everything to automatically expire, so it reloads everything anyway. Saves me a lot of hassel, but just remember to change it back when you're done, you don't want site visitors downloading 20kb of HTML, CSS, and images every time they click a link do we? ;) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check please!! Oh, you MAC people ... are you getting sick of me yet? ;~)
Mani Sheriar wrote: Hi All, I have another request for a site check and, once again, Mac users are especially needed. Please see: http://www.manisheriar.com/globalrocket/indexNEW.htm On Firefox 1.0 Win32, I get a horizontal scrollbar untill I increase the browser window size beyond 1100 pixels wide Renders fine in IE6 Win32. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Slow loading of CSS
Ryan Sabir wrote: Hi all, Its great that more and more people are fully laying out their sites using CSS, but I'm often seeing the problem where the HTML loads before the CSS, leaving a second or so where you can see the raw structure of the site before it gets the stylesheet applied. For example: Actually, IE loads the CSS along with the HTML and pauses content rendering untill the CSS is downloaded. What you saw is actually "Flash of Unstyled Content", there's more info here: http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp HTH -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Input: Select DOM JavaScript
Hi I'm wondering if anyone has any DOM JavaScript for Select inputs. Specifically, the ones where your choice in one Select box, calls some JavaScript to set the contents of the second Select box. Regards -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Review Please! ZenGarden Submission ...
Mani Sheriar wrote: Hi All – Happy New Year! I am working on my first CSS Zen Garden submission and I was wondering if you good folks might like to check it out for me and offer any feedback on the design or code. It can be viewed at www.manisheriar.com/zengarden Nice! :) However, I do get a horizontal scrollbar in FF1.0 and the tiling pattern for the side of the content pane doesn't match up with the top, try adjusting your background-position:; property to resolve this HTH -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] or
Whats more appropriate for form submission? Quite frankly, I can't see any advantage of over , for one... its more semantic... I wans a "button", not an input field... right there Also, most UI button widgets are used to submit forms themselves, right? Not to submit values So what do you use, where, and why? -David ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Optgroup indentation in IE
Jamie Mason wrote: Hi all, Does anyone know how to remove the indentation of s within s in IE? It works fine in Firefox as you'd expect but is it possible to alter it in IE? I've tried margin, padding and text-indent with no luck on both the optgroup and option, have I missed something, or is it just not supported? You could cheat and use the character to padd out menus? -David ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Design in 2005
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: CSS is good, cause it is cached. Dynamic CSS leaves us without the benefits of caching. I am not fan of sIFR, but feedling with CSS like this doesnt feel good either. Well... there's always inline styles ;) Introduction -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Design in 2005
Manuel González Noriega wrote:
Still... can't they just stick to CSS implementations? This solution
provides the exact same effect:
Except that when you're dealing with higly dynamic content (say, a
weblog or a news site), tweaking the css 10 times an hour becomes
problematic.
With a bit of server-side know-how, the CSS can be generated at the same
time
The headings could be defined in a dynamic CSS file... for example:
[Code]
<%Page ContentType="text/css" enableViewState="false"%>
#heading-<%# DataBinder.Item("HeadingName") %> {
background: <%# DataBinder.Item("ImageName") %>
}
[/Code]
I'd go into more detail about generating the contents of the DataSet,
but you get the idea :)
-David R
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Re: [WSG] Web Design in 2005
Forty Media wrote:
Flash widgets come into common use; full-site Flash still regarded as “sucks.”
If there's one thing I cannot stand... its use of Inline flash
replacement to use fancy fonts for headings
Of course, I'm more affected than most because I've got the FlashBlock
Firefox extension installed, so I have to click the "play" button for
every heading
Still... can't they just stick to CSS implementations? This solution
provides the exact same effect:
[code]
h1 span {
visibility: none;
}
#h-intro {
background: url("assets\headings\introduction.png") no-repeat left top;
}
Introduction
[/code]
Or change "visiblity: none;" to some indent and set the h1 element to
hide overflow content
Simple and effective, and it doens't annoy me in the process :)
-David R
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Re: [WSG] Site Review: e-oddie.com
Tatham Oddie wrote:
I need to somehow vertically and horizontally center the image, then
vertically center the text on top of it. If you have a solution I’d
gladly implement it.
Tatham...
Did you look at my suggestion for using negative margins and relative
positioning?
I've had a look at it in both Firefox 1.0 and IE6.0 SP1 and it renders
exactly the same as the tablular verison:
And with minimal code changes too
[Code]
#content {
width: 940px;
height: 440px;
background: #bfd8f1 url(images/IndexPanelBackground.jpg) no-repeat
center center;
position: absolute;
margin-top: -220px;
margin-left: -470px;
top: 50%;
left: 50%;
}
[/code]
aaand:
[code]
http://www.e-oddie.com/sydneylife/";>Sydney Life »
out on the social circuit
http://www.e-oddie.com/mylife/";>My Life »
coming soon
http://www.e-oddie.com/blog/professional/";>Geeky Stuff »
c# and other tech bits
[/code]
HTH
-david r
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Re: [WSG] page not validating as xhtml 1.0 strict - explanation?
Thorsten wrote: i know that one must put block elements inside inline elements with xhtml 1.0 strict, but this isn't the case here? paragraphs are block elements, as are s. Correction, you're not meant to put block elements inside inline, nor can you put block elements in block-level inline containers, such as "" Replace the with: HTH -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS alignment issues
Tatham Oddie wrote If you look at the homepage - http://www.e-oddie.com/ - I'm having problems laying the content out. I'm trying to centre the image on the page both horizontally and vertically. Then, within the panel, I'm trying to vertically centre the text. Unfortunately I'm not achieving either and am getting different results between IE6 and FF1. Negative Margins to the rescue! See if this helps: http://www.wpdfd.com/editorial/thebox/deadcentre4.html :) -David ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
