Re: [WSG] use of p in li
IMO a list is a list and can't really be confused with a paragraph... shopping list = eggs, bacon, bread, butter and ul's or ol's are designed specifically for that job. If you want more information in the list eg: Eggs nice big organic brown ones Bacon organic fed and humanely housed bacon only etc then you looking at a definition list. If the lists have a number of levels like Services Web Site Development Graphics SEO and more About Us Me You Someone else then simply nest the lists and style them accordingly Its easy to style the lists etc by giving each of them an id Have you looked at the brilliantly easy ways of styling lists on the http://css.maxdesign.com.au/ site. It's a really handy resource. Cheers Jackie Jackie Reid Mock Orange Media Ph: (07) 4953 4035 - Original Message - From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] use of p in li If you have two paragraphs you might want to reconsider the use of a list. I don't agree. Consider as an example a 'list' of services - it may take more than one paragraph to adequately describe each service, but it is still a list. -- Tyssen Design http://www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** __ NOD32 2862 (20080210) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
Hi all respondees Ben Said ...it depends if you're talking about page layout or actual content - ie. is your business name, logo etc being used in a header; or are you creating a page which lists a bunch of businesses? For the former I'd simply use a DIV, for the latter a list (maybe a definition list). I am doing the latter.. (a page (or more) of business listings) so I was wanted an easy way to tie all the relevent information into one nice little block. As Lucien said the W3schools states that The fieldset element draws a box around its containing elements. with no mention of form controls and that's why I asked the question in the first place. It was a response to an is there a better way to do this sort of a moment! Also as Lucien said.. i didnt just want to draw a box visually around a bit of content.. i wanted to be able to clearly group the related information together neatly. I considered a DL but found it too restricting and I really didn't want a whole load of div classes with headers p tages etc churned out repeatedly down the page. It seemed to me that if the W3 schools definition of a fieldset was correct and valid then it was ideal for my requirements. The fact the validator passed it also seemed to me to say that it could be used in this way. If fieldset can't be used this way why does it pass validation? So... what to do? I dunno frankly... the jury is still out. I will say this though ...i think its a shame that when someone takes the time to respond to a question and states their point of view only to get shot down in flames and virtually abused. This list is here to enable us to discuss the implementation of webstandards amongst like minded people and I'm sure no one is really hell-bent on abusing the standards. Cheers Jackie - Original Message - From: Ben Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form? Can fieldsets only to be used in forms or can they be used to group any sort of related information together (ie: business name, short description, logo and link). The spec's wording is a little vague but by my reading of it, fieldset and legend are only intended for form controls. Beyond the spec, I would imagine that the average user's expectation is that fieldset+legend = form inputs, so purely from a usability point of view I'd keep fieldsets for forms. For general content, the heading structure should group information together; and don't forget that although we use them constantly, DIVs do actually add structure (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-DIV). When I really want to break up a page into chunks I also use HRs, although many people contest that usage I think it's valid. Lists also group related items together; although I do think it's an oversight of the spec that you can't explicitly associate a label or caption with lists. Still, a subheading + list is usually a pretty clear association. In some ways it depends if you're talking about page layout or actual content - ie. is your business name, logo etc being used in a header; or are you creating a page which lists a bunch of businesses? For the former I'd simply use a DIV, for the latter a list (maybe a definition list). Just my opinion, no doubt there will be plenty of others :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** __ NOD32 2308 (20070604) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: Use of Fieldsets other than in form?
Quick question for you lot. Can fieldsets only to be used in forms or can they be used to group any sort of related information together (ie: business name, short description, logo and link). thanks Jackie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] pdf graphics
Bruce If you own a copy of Adobe Acrobat and open the file in there you can extract/export images as jpgs. if not do screen shots. Its a pain... just like getting all the images required for a website embedded in a word doc aagh jackie - Original Message - From: Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:15 PM Subject: [WSG] pdf graphics Hi all, I was pleased recently to get a rather large project. It was also nice that they were sending the graphics for the site design. Today I got them, in pdf format! Now, perhaps I live on another planet, or a rank amature, but in the last ten years online I have known no-one who uses pdf for graphics. I have no clue what to do with them, especially after client stating the time he put into making them. I wish all pdf files would get lost, feel they have no place on the web. I really hope that standards aren't moving in this direction!!! What do you do in a situation like this? I need them for the design, menu items and backgrounds... Bruce Prochnau BKDesign ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ NOD32 1.1365 (20060114) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma
Hello Tee I am currently working on a site with the nils org here who are accessibility gurus and they have recommended that should i have to open a new window i should use this code a href=http://www.siteurl.com.au; title=Opens in a New Window onclick=window.open(this.href); return false; onkeypress=window.open(this.href); return false;External link here/a this is detailed in the juicy studio article here http://www.juicystudio.com/article/scripting-away-validation.php hope that helps jackie - Original Message - From: tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:13 PM Subject: [WSG] another 'open new window' dilemma Hi accessible care takers, I know open new window even for external site is no good and have put it in practise for most sites I have done, however I am kind of stuck on a site that has over 100 links to external sites. My client, understands no accessible issues however she was willing to take many of my suggestions, except the NO 'open new window' to external sites. Her argument is valid and justifiable, that she is afraid her audience (marketing decision markers, art directors and IT managers, ad firm account managers etc) will get lost if there isn't new window open for external site. I tried to convince her that her audience probably are more advanced internet users than most grandpa/grandmom audience my other clients have. She doesn't buy it and I haven't give up :) Visited Accessify, sitepoint as well as WSG archives to look for perfect solution; there seems none. It can also be quite a pain adding js code just to make the link works. My temporarily solution is to have the 'title=right click for new window' in the a href tag, and also provides an open new window icon next to the link text, however I am afraid this may actually creates confusion to her audience. So I created another icon that indicates 'right click to open new window' - it seems a bit over kill. I still think the 'title=right click for new window' is the best approach, but I notice the indication takes more than 3 seconds to show. Some people click faster than 3 seconds. Can you tell the message I try to convey at the first glance of the icon? Does it too fancy, too confusing? please see the first two links. http://clients.lotusseeds.com/news/june05_nikkeibussiness.html thanks! tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] HTML Codes - Characters and symbols
this is handy for people like me who dont know the HTML Codes - Characters and symbols off by heart or even1% by heart http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm cheers Jackie
[WSG] Case of the amazing disappearing wrapper!
Hi List I dont understand whats going on here at all. http://www.fxenterprises.com.au/index.htm the white wrapper div is just not containing the content. Or rather sometimes it is and sometimes its not. when you first go into the site the wrapper doesnt stretch, if you use the navigation and move to another page it seems ok. but when you refresh the screen whompa... its the amazing disappearing wrapper thing again. Please shed light on the subject if you can. Thanks again list. Jackie
Re: [WSG] FF Bug - Any Fixes?
Any chance of having a look at the code and the css.? Jackie - Original Message - From: Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 2:00 PM Subject: [WSG] FF Bug - Any Fixes? Hey List, I know this bug has been discussed before - but I can't find any solutions. Wondering if there have been any recent fixes or what not. This is how the menu should look (this was from IE, even IE gets it right) http://img78.echo.cx/img78/1969/menubug25aq.jpg This is FireFox's render: http://img78.echo.cx/img78/6669/menubug16xy.jpg AS you can see, beneath CHAT ROOMS and BROWSE A-Z there is a signifcant gap... White space... Something! :S The website is: www.simplyrewarding.com.au Thanks! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] problems with links
Alex, Ingo, David and Ajay...this is a belated
thanks for taking the time to look at my links problem, i've been away. I'll
have a crack at your solutions today and im sure they will fix the issue.
Thanks.
also thanks for spotting this glaring blunder
Ingo
I haven't looked at it yet, but most of your link rules are
wrong.#header3 a:link, a:active, a:visited { ... }This is natural
language, but not what you want to achieve in CSS:#header3 a:link, #header3
a:active, #header3 a:visited {...}
I cant believe i did that but its probably the last
thing i would have noticed as i was just focusing so much on the other rotten
issue.
Thanks again guys
jackie
- Original Message -
From:
Ajay Jadhav
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] problems with
links
Hi,
My suggestion on this would be the same as Alex James
Ajay
Alex James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
jackie
reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: i have been having the most
appalling time with my links here www.mackayports.com css here www.mackayports.com/styles/newport2.css
in the left hand column
I can't stop the logo images from having an underline,
its underlining the whole link.Firstly do you mean the images in the DIV
'icontain'? If yes put a class on the link around the logo and then set the
text-decoration to none like this:a.logoImg { text-decoration: none; }
HTH, haven't had time to look at the second problem but viewed the
page in firefox and 'Queensland Transport' is
underlined?aj**The
discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on
posting to the list getting
help**
Thanks/Regards
Ajay M
Jadhav
+91-98456-98070
+91-98841-91312
__Do You
Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[WSG] problems with links
Hi List i have been having the most appalling time with my links here www.mackayports.com css here www.mackayports.com/styles/newport2.css I am in the process of revamping this site in accordance to the instructions/requirements of the Accessiblity crew at NILS but i seem to have got myself confused and mucked up my code and just cant work out whats going on, so i through myself on your mercy. The problem is when viewed in firefox:- (looks fine in ie... so i know its wrong!!!) in the left hand column div class="whiteblock" I can't stop the logo images from having an underline, its underlining the whole link. and then i can't get the text link in div class="endblock" to have an underline, although they are both marked up more or less the same way. I have fiddled with this enough for my sanity today, if i continue i know i will go totally insane. Hope someone can help me, huge thanks in anticipation. Jackie
[WSG] Strange horizontal spacing in nav list
Hello everyone... I am in a quandry... ie displays my navigation with whopping great big spaces in between the list items. Why is this so... and how can i make them go away? Been trying to get it sorted for a couple of hours now and am getting frustrated to the max. Please go here to see the offending page http://www.mackayports.com/airport/index2.asp thanks in anticpation Jackie
Re: [WSG] Strange horizontal spacing in nav list
shame on me... you know what? I shall be reading russ's links for light reading as soon as they pop up in my inbox from now on and you know what else.. I cant understand a word this gary bloke is saying but i will nut it out!!! thanks Mike... jackie Thanks Mike - Original Message - From: Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Strange horizontal spacing in nav list jackie reid wrote: Hello everyone... I am in a quandry... ie displays my navigation with whopping great big spaces in between the list items. Why is this so... and how can i make them go away? Been trying to get it sorted for a couple of hours now and am getting frustrated to the max. Please go here to see the offending page http://www.mackayports.com/airport/index2.asp Ya mean you don't assiduiously read Russ' Links for light reading each time? :) It looks like the IE whitespace bug, and solution from Russ' last lot of links: http://www.csscreator.com/css-forum/ftopic9016.html Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Disjointed Rollovers in css
Peter and Thierry.. yes both those links are perfect.. i can get the drift now. thanks so much jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Disjointed Rollovers in css
Hi group i would like to be able to make a disjointed rollover in css, you know rollover the text and the image nearby changes colour or whatever. is there a tutorial out there that anyone has seen or used that may help me achieve this. cheers Jackie
[WSG] Can I text indent on the right?
Good morning, good evening to the list Having an issue here with text which is aligned right in my navigation list on the left hand side. I want text aligned right and an indent on the right hand side. Padding doesnt to do it, margin don't do it either as the border bottom then moves in the same distance as the padding or the margin and the border stops short. (this is of course an ie problem all is fine in firefox.) Is there a trick? Something obvious i am missing? http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/mintech/index2.htm any help would be appreciated or in frustration i will be sticking nbsp; in there and i dont want to do that. Cheers Jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] active and current id's in lists
HI all I need someone to point me in the right direction so that i can find out more about the active and current bits in a ul used for navigation like this - ul id=topnav *li id=active*a href=# *id=current* link/a/li lia href=#link/a/li lia href=#link/a/li /ul this is one of the lists off css.maxdesign but i dont actually understand what the /active /and /current /is referring to.. what it does or if i even need to use it. There is no reference to either in the style sheet so whats it all about. I have more than one ul list in the page so obviously if i am using the same style of list again i will have to make the li /*id*/=active a class instead. But do i even need to have active and current ids/classes in there at all. Sorry if that sounds a tad jumbled but its been a long day. Any explanations or links to explanations would be greatly appreciated Jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] active and current id's in lists
thanks chaps! ... now i get it! Will put into practice immediately. What a great list.. go home depressed... come in in the morning and everything is fine! jackie Ted Drake wrote: personally, I wouldn't add the second id. However, you may be working with a nested set of links. The current id says, show the nested list, the active says, this is the active link We are using something similar for the topnav on this web site: www.csatravelprotection.com Instead of #current, we are using a class on the body and an id on the list. When the two match, it shows the nested list. If the two don't match, the nested list is hidden. Ted -Original Message- From: Kornel Lesinski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:24 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] active and current id's in lists On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 08:59:59 -0800, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The active id is giving you the opportunity to make that list item stand out from the others. The current id is giving you the opportunity to make the link stand out from the others. Why second ID instead of simply using #active a selector? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Review - Another Government site thats Standards Compliant
Hi Esteban... congratulations on the site... looks great. If I were to suggest anything at all I would suggest that you restrict the size of your contents div (or your dl which ever suits) to prevent the text from spreading out too much. the line length is really long at full screen...makes is a bit hard to read. Other than that i think it all looks great. jackie Esteban Aguilar wrote: Hi Everyone, I will not bore you with a long intro, I'm Esteban Aguilar, I got into designing standard compliant sites after attending the web standards briefing at UTS on Sep 2nd 2004. After the briefing I joined this mailing list and have been reading it ever since. With Standards in mind I re-designed our projects website, it can be accessed in two ways: http://www.communilink.org.au or http://www.ci.crc.nsw.gov.au I would like to know what you standards pros think of design. Kind Regards, Esteban Aguilar ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] required attribute rows not specified problem
how embarrassing...sorry must be having a real blonde day!!! Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Jackie Reid wrote: /Line 156, column 69/: required attribute rows not specified [...] this is the bit its referring to textarea name=question cols=30 id=question/textarea [...] what's it all about? Aeh...specify the rows attribute, as it's required ;) textarea name=question cols=30 rows=5 id=question/textarea It's fairly self-explanatory, I thought ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sometimes you just cant help people ...
Why cant you just say read content and leave the skip bit out altogether jackie Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Hill, Tim wrote: I believe as more sites take this approach on board, it will become more prevalent to these users of what the links do. I'd agree with that. Additional two points: - even if the user doesn't understand what they are, and decides to skip them (no pun intended), it doesn't significantly degrade their user experience compared to other sites; what I'm trying to say is: it's a bonus, an extra feature, icing on the cake that many large sites don't necessarily have yet...but it's not an essential part. Even if the user ignores it, the site remains as usable as the one without skip links; - be careful not to take the comment of a single user to signify a whole section of the audience; of course, it's a comment we need to take on board, but it can only be a truly useful comment that actually dramatically influences our design decisions if an overwhelming number of users make it - in the same way that we wouldn't necessarily take any single sighted user's comments as an imperative (hey, I don't like navigation on the left, but I prefer it on the top). That's not to say that it's not an interesting observation. Just to clarify: I'm not trying to belittle the original thread starter's message...just playing devil's advocate and making sure this doesn't cause a knee-jerk wave from less pragmatic developers. Patrick H. Lauke ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Transparent Background on a list item
:) Right that makes sense now ... thanks... Hugh Todd wrote: Jackie, The height didn't change the transparency. It revealed more of your #nav1's background image. Remember, a float (unless cleared) will happily extend beyond the borders of its container. Except in IE PC, but that is a bug. So if you want your #nav1's background to resize in proportion to text as it resizes, you will have to give it a percentage or an em height measurement. :) Hugh Hugh.Why did that work? Why would the height of a div make something turn transparent? h. confusing that...doesnt seem logical somehow. (no point in just doing it if i dont understand is it!) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS Validation query
Hi everyone im a bit confused here - trying to validate my css and i get this warning Line : 0 font-family: You are encouraged to offer a generic family as a last alternative what do they mean... i always do that and get the no errors or warnings reply... whats going on.. ? Jackie www.jobfitsystem.com/about.asp www.jobfitsystem.com/styles/jobfit2.css ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Validation query
Thank, thank, thank you everyone...it works now... i must have scoured through that code for hours yesterday... a severe case of not seeing the wood for the trees. All fixed with your help thanks again Jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Transparent Background on a list item
sorry to be a pest but.. :-( things just arent working out for me today ... (or yesterday for that matter) I am trying to position a nav list over a background image, therefore need the bg to be transparent. Works for me in theory but 2 things are happening: a) ie is displaying the list bg as transparent but in the wrong position b) firefox is displaying it in the right position but with a solid white background. i have two navigation bits in the site the one thats not doing as its told is #navcontainer2 ul I have been fiddling around most of the morning and am now throwing my hands up in total disgust can anyone shed any light on this subject for me? please its all here www.jobfitsystem.com/test.asp www.jobfitsystem.com/styles/jobfit2.css Jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Transparent Background on a list item
Hugh.Why did that work? Why would the height of a div make something turn transparent? h. confusing that...doesnt seem logical somehow. (no point in just doing it if i dont understand is it!) jackie Hugh Todd wrote: On 14/10/2004, at 2:04 PM, Jackie Reid wrote: I have been fiddling around most of the morning and am now throwing my hands up in total disgust can anyone shed any light on this subject for me? please Jackie, Give a height to your #nav1. 20px did it for me. HTH -Hugh Todd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Transparent Background on a list item
that did it... i cant believe it... THANK YOU HUGH ... my new hero! unbelievable... didnt even dawn on me to do that and never would have i dont think. thanks again... jackie Hugh Todd wrote: On 14/10/2004, at 2:04 PM, Jackie Reid wrote: I have been fiddling around most of the morning and am now throwing my hands up in total disgust can anyone shed any light on this subject for me? please Jackie, Give a height to your #nav1. 20px did it for me. HTH -Hugh Todd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Site Structure Suggestions, Second Post!
personally i wouldnt use the H1 for your jezzjournal i would call that something else like logo div or whatever and use the H1 for the title of the post so that the h1 is not the same on every page. Otherwise you have set it up almost exactly the way i would do it... jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Problems incorporating suckerfish dropdown
<>Jackie wrote for once ie is doing as its told and positioning the dropdown in the right possy but in firefox i can't for the life of me get the darn thing Ben Bishop wrote: Arrrggghhh! Surely you've seen the trend when "IE is right, Firefox is wrong." Just how many times has Firefox got it wrong on this list?! Hi Ben... thanks for the fix... PLEASE don't think I thought IE was right! God forbid... I knew I had it wrong simply because IE was doing it "right" Will implement fix immediately!!! oh and by the way I always develop in firefox does that mean I'm a boffin too :) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Problems incorporating suckerfish dropdown
Hi all... I am trying to incorporate the suckerfish drop down menu in this site... for once ie is doing as its told and positioning the dropdown in the right possy but in firefox i can't for the life of me get the darn thing to move let alone get it in the right spot... would appreciate any help at all to get this sorted everything validates but thats not helping atm!! site is here - http://sslservers.net/~aslassoc/tester.php css is here - http://sslservers.net/~aslassoc/styles/asla2.css Cheers - Jackie ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Titles Acronyms Abbr etc
Wonderful...thanks to you all... :o) Jackie Reid - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Titles Acronyms Abbr etc Shortened forms on the Web - Abbreviations, Contractions, Acronyms, Initialisms, Symbols and other things. http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/ozewai2003/short_forms.htm with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. Jackie Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] e.com.aucc: Sent by: Subject: [WSG] Titles Acronyms Abbr etc [EMAIL PROTECTED] group.org 21/07/2004 03:36 PM Please respond to wsg Hi all Confusion is setting in.is the following piece of code correct or not... h5a name=ventdoor/aacronym title=Vent Door SystemsVent Door Systems/acronym/h5 Looks distinctly like a case of totally unnecessary to me but we have a difference of opinion in the office...so thought i should check before i go through and start removing all the offending stuff that has been inserted into my code in my absence. Have looked online to find out when and how to use titles etc but cant find anything clear and precise so would appreciate someone pointing me to a resource in relation to abbr, acronyms and titles etc Thanks heaps Jackie Reid * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Titles Acronyms Abbr etc
Hi all Confusion is setting in.is the following piece of code correct or not... h5a name="ventdoor"/aacronym title="Vent Door Systems"Vent DoorSystems/acronym/h5 Looks distinctlylike a case of totally unnecessary to me butwe have a difference of opinion in the office...so thought i should check before i go through and start removing all the offending stuff that has been inserted into my code in my absence. Have looked online to find out when and how to use titles etc but cant find anything clear and precise so would appreciate someone pointing me to a resource in relation to abbr, acronyms and titles etc Thanks heaps Jackie Reid
[WSG] IE mac 5.1 problems with floats
Hi everyone... I have just completed a couple of sites and both fall to bits in a big way in IE 5.1 or whatever for MAC... all the divs are all over the shop. It seems to be ignoring the floats and clears. What should i be doing to get this sorted... urls are www.juganaut.com.au- css at www.juganaut.com.au/css/juganaut.css www.steelcentral.com.au css at www.steelcentral.com.au/styles/steelcentral.css same problemo on both sites. both lots of html and css validate... and this really gives me the sh*ts any help offered will be greatly appreciated. Jackie
Re: [WSG] IE mac 5.1 problems with floats
Thanks Kay.. I did have a look through the archives just before but must have been asking the wrong search question... will have another go. Hi Jackie, This actually came up on this list last week I think... Basically, IE5 on the Mac has a problem with clearing floats. You need to have separate clearing elements, eg div style=clear:both/div between the elements that need to be cleared. Check the archives for more details if you like... HTH, K. -- Kay Smoljak Senior Developer/QC Leader/Search Optimisation PerthWeb Pty Ltd - http://www.perthweb.com.au/ Ph: 08 9226 1366 - Fax: 08 9226 1375 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jackie Reid Sent: Thursday, 3 June 2004 3:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] IE mac 5.1 problems with floats Hi everyone... I have just completed a couple of sites and both fall to bits in a big way in IE 5.1 or whatever for MAC... all the divs are all over the shop. It seems to be ignoring the floats and clears. What should i be doing to get this sorted... urls are www.juganaut.com.au - css at www.juganaut.com.au/css/juganaut.css www.steelcentral.com.au css at www.steelcentral.com.au/styles/steelcentral.css same problemo on both sites. both lots of html and css validate... and this really gives me the sh*ts any help offered will be greatly appreciated. Jackie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Should web standards cost more?
mark said: For example I feel that CSS based design takes less time and as such should cost less that a design that has font tags hidden graphics everywhere.(etc etc) Mark... my accountant would have you marched straight to the nearest wall and shot for saying that. Why on earth should we bother to learn the new skills and spend nights crying with frustration in the attempt to build valid accessible sites when financially its going to cost us money!. We dont pay other professional people, say a doctor or a solicitor or hairdresser, less because of his/her knowledge and skill... we pay them what the job is worth...and thats the way it should be as far as i am concerned. I am not charging more for valid sites, I am charging what the job is worth, if i can get the job out faster and more efficiently then good for me... i deserve to be rewarded. No client should be charged for a learning curve, i agree with that wholeheartedly and have never charged for time spent nutting out new skills. However there has to be a value for a site, and just because we have studied and learned new skills to enable us to give the client a better site should not mean we are then given a financial slap in the face for our hard won additional skills. The first few valid sites i built took me 4 times as long to build using css rather than tables and I lost money and sanity hand over fist on those jobs. Now i am starting to reap the benefits of my newfound skills (still not where they should be i hasten to add - but getting there) and I feel no need to justify the value i place on them. My client benefits and so will I. Jackie Reid * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] The joys of list management
Firstly I would like to say that the WSG list has been truly inspirational to me and i owe it a humungously huge debt of gratitude. At least 90% of the standards stuff i have learned has come directly from my association with it. I am not a member of any other list or forum any longer, I like this one, and I like the people on it as they don't make me feel like a total fool when I can't grasp something. I just sit here and get no end of interesting stuff delivered direct to my WSG folder with minimal effort on my part. (love that). I check it whenever i feel like it, respond if I want, or just read. (I often get the best laugh of the week from it) and I dont have any problems at all with the way it is run. I have tried forums and i don't like 'em at all and won't participate and that's that! A question: Is it possible to have an OT list the same as this one. OT Stuff can still beam itself through and get filtered into my delegated OT folder for viewing when the mood takes me and we can all rant and rave away there to our hearts content without bothering the die hard standards people. I must admit that once the topic has been moved to the discussion room I tend not to participate any longer, however as long as the chain of conversation continues to come through to me I remain interested. (How lazy is that! But there you have it...) An OT list would enable poor long suffering Russ and the others to keep the original list for standards topics, filter the other odds and sods off to the correct list and not cop an earful everytime they try to keep things on topic. Maybe same thing can be done for completed sites up for critique before publishing as I'm sure some people consider them to be OT too, I would be quite happy to be on as many discussion lists as deemed necessary if they are associated with this group. There you go... my two bobs worth Jack * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
displaying the ability to finish something you started I hear this comment thrown about alot as one of the major benefits of getting a degree, frankly I think that's absolute garbage. If a degree is reward for perserverence,all members of this list should be given honorary degrees today because if anyone displays the ability to remain dedicated to somethingwe do!... and against all odds. That's my two bobs worth, for what its worth! Jackie *The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help*
Re: [WSG] Where am I missing the left turn at Alberqurque?
displays as desired in IE 6.0. It goes the hades in a hand basket in Moz. Looks identical in both IE and Firefox to me...is this like a spot the difference thing? Jackie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] border problem with IE
I'm out of ideas - anyone got any?
Hi Kay...
I fiddled around with this and found that if you put the ul into a div like
this
#container{padding-bottom: 5px;}
the bottom border seems to show up for some reason or other BUT then of
course you lose the 1px white border to the right ...but that may be a
starting point
http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/test/test.php
Jackie Reid
Mock Orange Web Site Development
1st Floor
92 Victoria Street
MACKAY Q 4740
Ph: 07 4953 4035
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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[WSG] Compliant tree menu
Hi everyone... in dire straits here... I am desperatelylooking for an exploding/folding tree menu that remembers the last state of the menu when you refresh or go back to a page. Have tried all the ones that seem to be available on line but they either dont do what i want, or do what i want and wont validate. Is there anything out there or should i be looking for a _javascript_ writer of my own? Is this OT.. if it is ...sorry... maybe you could just email me direct if you have an answer. Jackie Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Your opinion and feedback requested
Hi there Jason...I think the site looks great, nice and clean and easy to read.. well done. My only comment is about the lack of a navigation menu I know you can get to the home users, business users and service provider sections from 3 different sets of links on the page but I spent a couple of minutes looking around for a traditional menu of some sort so i think that from a user point of view you might need to include one. Jackie Reid * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] marquee text
This one looks like it could do the trick... thanks all for your help all. Jackie Have a look at http://devedge.netscape.com/toolbox/examples/2001/stock-ticker/ Regards Chris Blown http://hinterlands.com.au On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 16:22, Jackie Reid wrote: My client has asked me for a section of scrolling text dammit! Have searched online...cant find anything other than the fact that the marquee tag has been depreciated.' Is there anyway that this sort of thing can be done without effecting on the validation and accessibility of a site? Anyone know where i can find some info on this? :( Jackie Reid * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please
Kay said What I would do in your situation is hide the css from Netscape 4 completely by using either the media=all attribute on your link tag, or @@import syntax. I actually dont really understand that stuff *cringe with embarrasment* I know i read up on it at some stage but as usual can't remember where to go and find the info now that i need it. Can someone point me in the right direction please. also...Thanks for the nice comments..Kay... i appreciate them Jackie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Trimming the fat from CSS
Wow.. this is fun... Im really glad i opened up this little can of worms, the list had really been a bit too quiet for my liking today. ;o) But to Brian... you made me think about the size of the css and I have done some of what you said but not all..and even if the code is not absolutely bare bones its a tad more compact than it was before...so thanks for your advice. Cheers Jackie... PS(must be time for an alcholic beverage or three by now) Leo said I HATE bloat You know Brian, for a person who hates bloat, you sure are full of it. ;-) lol Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please
Kay Smoljak said I have two stylesweepers set up - one for readable (nice spacing etc) and one for production (every extra space removed). One click (ok, maybe two) and your css is transformed... Good grief.. thats amazing!!! Thanks a bundle Kay. - Original Message - From: Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Constructive Criticism please theGrafixGuy said: Once all done remove all spaces between the commas and the semi-colons and remove the rest of the returns and have one LONG line - all of these together will trim A LOT off the size of the stylesheet - mine by itself in a editing state with comments is over 18k but the version I put on line is under 7k. It don't look as pretty when it is opened and is harder to read by a human, but it is a smaller file and reads faster by a machine. If you have TopStyle, there's a great StyleSweeper tool which will reformat your css according to settings that you specify. I have two stylesweepers set up - one for readable (nice spacing etc) and one for production (every extra space removed). One click (ok, maybe two) and your css is transformed... K. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Horizontal Rule throwing out design
Following Jason Turnbull's advice on another
problem (that fixed the problem, thanks Jason) I have included an hr class=clear
to the bottom of my wrapper to make the white background appear. I tried
div's br's and they didnt work. hr did.
now...
in firefox the spacing is fine but i can see the hr
at the very bottom of the wrapper
in ie i cant see the hr but i have too much space
at the bottom of the page...it should only show 5px margin...
how do i make them go away...?
the css goes something like this
hr {height: 0; margin: 0; padding: 0; color: #fff;
background-color: #fff;}
and
.clear { clear:both; font-size:0;
line-height:0;}
any light shed on the subject would be appreciated.
That fact that i dont even know what makes up an hr could be a problem, but i
can't find a definition of an hr anywhere.
site: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/index.html
css: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/css/juganaut.css
Jackie Reid
Re: [WSG] Horizontal Rule throwing out design
Jason...I decided to try the br class=clear / thing again cos you said it should work and now it does(h!)... maybe it was conflicting with some css that I have now changed or removed. Possible. I would also be interested in getting the hr thing working for future use if poss so would be interested in the solution to that too if any one has it nutted out already. Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Jason Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Horizontal Rule throwing out design Jackie Reid wrote: I have included an hr class=clear to the bottom of my wrapper to make the white background appear. I tried div's br's and they didnt work. hr did. That's a bit strange I've never had a br class=clear / not work in firefox the spacing is fine but i can see the hr at the very bottom of the wrapper in ie i cant see the hr but i have too much space at the bottom of the page ...it should only show 5px margin... how do i make them go away...? I was trying to do this yesterday and eventually went back to using a br. IE was the only browser causing trouble, and I tried many different suggestions I found on the net I found a post by Eric Meyer to add visibility:hidden, but that still takes up space. So I would also like to hear if anyone has a solution Regards Jason Turnbull * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] GLITCH WITH MARGINS
Thanks Leo...you were rightthe answer was in there along with bucket loads of other juicy info including answers to unasked questions...cheers! ...sorry all about the caps in the heading :o( promisei wont do it again...consider my hand smacked ;o) Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Leo J. O'Campo To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:12 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] GLITCH WITH MARGINS JackieDon't you just love IE... I'd guess your answer is at the link below.http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/doubled-margin.htmlLeoOn Thursday, April 8, 2004, at 04:12 AM, Jackie Reid wrote: Somethingstrange is happening to my marginswhen i attribute a 10px left hand margin to the div id left i seem to get a 15px margin in IE which then throws the right hand column down and under. This doesn't happen with top, right or bottom margins - they all display correctly. What's going on here...site: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/index.htmlcss: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/css/juganaut.cssany help would be appreciated hugely...Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] CENTERING SITE WRAPPER PROBLEMS.
Thanks all... I have fixed the problem with your help, Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Leo J. O'Campo To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] CENTERING SITE WRAPPER PROBLEMS. Jackie the info in this pdf file is just what you need. LeoOn Thursday, April 8, 2004, at 12:59 AM, Jackie Reid wrote: Hi all...I have a couple of problems here that i dont seem to be able to nut out, any help would be greatly appreciated if there is anyone around on the day before the easter break.Firstly the site centers just fine in ie but is aligned left in firefox...why is this so?Secondly and more confusing, I have the site contained in a wrapper but in firefox the wrapper doesnt wrap,it doesnt seem to contain any of the elements that I have put in there. (if you look in firefox the wrapper is the little white bit at the top that is supposed to fill the whole site) Looks fine in ie again.If i display it as table-cell; it seems to work but thats not widely supported is it?site: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/index.htmlcss: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/css/juganaut.cssJackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] CENTERING SITE WRAPPER PROBLEMS.
Hi all... I have a couple of problems here that i dont seem to be able to nut out, any help would be greatly appreciated if there is anyone around on the day before the easter break. Firstly the site centers just fine in ie but is aligned left in firefox...why is this so? Secondly and more confusing, I have the site contained in a wrapper but in firefox the wrapper doesnt wrap,it doesnt seem to contain any of the elements that I have put in there. (if you look in firefox the wrapper is the little white bit at the top that is supposed to fill the whole site) Looks fine in ie again. If i display it as table-cell; it seems to work but thats not widely supported is it? site: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/index.html css: http://www.mockorange.com.au/mocksites/test/jugernaut/css/juganaut.css Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Accessibility Headache Starting
Is this OT? if it is sorry but I sat here last night reading up on accessibility after reading the article at http://www.ergoboy.com/news/uk_user_friendly_website_disabled.phpabout new legislation in the UK. I frankly don't know if I can cope with all this! After the trauma of trying to get css and valid stuff up and happening I now have to deal with accessibility. I have read a number of bits and pieces on the subject, downloaded weird accessibility validating programmes to test em out... and couldn't understand a darn thing they were talking about. Like Chris Strafford I find the w3 site a bit intimidating so would greatly appreciate it if someone could point me in the direction ofa site or book or something that talks straight English on the subject. Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Headache Starting
Thanks to Manuel and Mike... that gives me loads to get started with. Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Manuel González Noriega [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Accessibility Headache Starting El jue, 18-03-2004 a las 00:37, Jackie Reid escribió: Is this OT? if it is sorry but Like Chris Strafford I find the w3 site a bit intimidating so would greatly appreciate it if someone could point me in the direction of a site or book or something that talks straight English on the subject. You've got two awesome online books on the subject Start with Mark Pilgrim's Dive Into Accesibility, it'll get you up to speed in a second http://diveintoaccessibility.org/ And then proceed to Joe Clark's Building Accesible Websites http://www.joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/ Them lurk around http://webaim.org, http://www.accessify.com/ and http://www.accessifyforum.com/ -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] New CSS site
As Peter mentioned in an earlier post, For inspiration, look at traditional design as well as other websites I think this is the best advice that could be offered to anyone who doesn't have a design background. With the wonders of css we should be able to reproduce any design we like. Magazines, Press Ads, TV ads, Billboards and even junk mail can be an inspiration in layout and colours. Another thing that is not always treated with the respect it deserves is the content. Headings, subheader, content all have a job to do, ie: attract attention, reinforce and sell. There are many books/sites out there on advertising that works and why it works. Zeldman covers it a bit in Taking your Talent to the Web I think. We should all take into account rules (for want of a better word) that have been established for a long long time in the print media and adapt them to the web... most sites are still selling something whether its a service or a product and the content should be considered as important as the layout... ...so now we need professional copywriters as well... oh well thats just the way the mop flops!!! Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Michael Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] New CSS site You are quite right, Hugh. I'm a professional at what I do, and I tell my clients that there's nothing stopping them getting out notepad or Frontpage and doing their own sites. There aren't any secret programming techniques in web sites. But they don't because they're good at running an off-road car parts business or being a professional athlete, and I'm good at developing web code. The exact same argument applies to graphic arts. I own Fireworks and Photoshop, and I can manipulate images well enough to eliminate a background or put it out of focus to make the foreground object stand out, I can colour correct and correct lighting, and I can make buttons, and I can crop pictures to improve composition. But all those things are mechanical. Anyone, given the instructions, can do that. What takes talent, vision and skills that I don't have is taking a white screen and envisioning something beautiful on it. A blank canvas so to speak and producing a wonderful piece of art, that also works as a web page. So you're right. I ought to be working with a graphic artist, and if I did my sites would look far better. But I work mostly with tiny businesses, for whom building even a brochureware site is something of a stretch. The site just wont pay for two people to do the job. And I'm too conscious of a mortgage debt and school fees and the need to eat to allow someone else to take away some of the money. So I have to do it all by myself whether I like it or not. And in the process I'm learning quite a lot about artistic matters, although I'll be the first to acknowledge I'm never going to make it as an artist. One day perhaps. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugh Todd Sent: Monday, 15 March 2004 11:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] New CSS site Michael, Peter Gifford's beautiful work makes me wonder if I should call myself a designer at all. But what he didn't say was what I have long maintained. The fact that everyone (more or less) can pick up a pencil does not mean that everyone can draw beautifully. In the same way, the fact that everyone on this list either can, or is learning to, make web pages using CSS does not make them graphic designers. I know this is an obvious point, but I would recommend that if you want to make beautiful sites you engage the services of a professional graphic designer to produce Photoshop images of what your site could look like. It will take some collaboration, but when your CSS makes the design come to life you will see how graphic design works, not simply to make things look beautiful but to add intelligence and simplicity (if simplicity can be added) to the conveying of information. All the best! -Hugh Todd I'm sorry, Peter, but I hate your new site. I LOATHE it. Oh, not because you did a rotten job in my opinion. On the contrary, it's so good it reminds me of my own shortcomings in the artistic/design department. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Whats going on
Hi you lot Can someone please explain this to me... I have had a site up and running for a couple of months and doing its thing just fine. Now today out of nowhere it suddenly decides that absolute positioning is out and all those sections of the site simply disappeared from view. After much tooing and frowing I decided to try floating them instead and Voila there are all the bits i couldnt see before. WHY WHY WHY...Why would this have happened. Got me totally beat. Anyone had any problems like this before and if so what the heck was it. (must admit that im pretty proud of myself for sorting it but thats not the point really) Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
In my struggles to come to terms with css, this list has been an absolute godsend as far as i am concerned, stranded as I am in sunny nq.Somehow it seems very much like a bunch of mates helping one another out. (That sounds a bit mushy but there you have it) I haven't posted that often, however have read all emails avidly over a coffee and a cig during my down time. Russ's advice is always brilliant, along with many, manyothers, and lately the amount of moral support and help offered to membershas given me a nice warm fuzzy feeling!!! Let's face it people unassociated with the industry just don't understand what we are going through here when things turn pearshaped. I dont know what the answer is but I do knowI would like this list to continue on more or less as it is but do understand the need for standards stuff too... but at present this is my best resource for guiding me through the maze that is css. I think I have come ahead in leaps and bounds as a direct result of this list. So thanks to all. Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Universal Head To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list It's tricky, because now that I'm getting up to speed with CSS I tend to skim and skip the 'how-tos'. But then, I never would have got up to speed in the first place without the 'how-to' help from this list.POn 10/03/2004, at 12:55 PM, Mark Stanton wrote: I've got a graphic artist in here who has similar complaints to yours - hefinds Russ's emails with lists of links very interesting because they givehim a good idea of issues that he has to design around and techniques thatwe can be employing. But he doesn't code CSS all day so he doesn't reallyget much from the "how do I get this float working" posts.Universal HeadDesign That Works.7/43 Bridge Rd StanmoreNSW 2048 AustraliaT (+612) 9517 1466F (+612) 9565 4747E [EMAIL PROTECTED]W www.universalhead.com
Re: [WSG] Positioning driving me nuts
Ben...You are amazing...thanks so much... I checked your response last night at hoome and implemented it immediately and it worked like a charm. Funny how you can look at something till cross eyed and just not see whats going on...someone else has a quick look and sorts it...as Tommy Cooper would say just like that! Thanks again. Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning driving me nuts Jackie, Why won't the content sit up where it should here http://www.healthpoint.com.au/new2.php want the stuff that starts home new2 to sit up in the middle there and it just won't!! driving me nuts, nuts, nuts. It won't sit up there because all the content you want to sit beside that floated navinsert are block level elements with widths of 100%. ie: (150px + 100%) width does not fit into the 100% width of the parent container. That's why the content wraps below. Sounds dubious? Add display:inline; to your H2 and it will jump straight up there. As for a fix, your wrapping container is fixed width, so enclose all your middle content in a div that is 800px-(side columns widths) wide and float this left. hth, Ben http://www.daemon.com.au/ Note: Your container is set at 800px wide. If you're targeting PC 800x600 minimum screen resolution, this should be 770px max, to take into account browser chrome and scrollbar. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Positioning driving me nuts
Ben...You are amazing...thanks so much... I checked your response last night at hoome and implemented it immediately and it worked like a charm. Funny how you can look at something till cross eyed and just not see whats going on...someone else has a quick look and sorts it...as Tommy Cooper would say just like that! Thanks again. Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ben Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Positioning driving me nuts Jackie, Why won't the content sit up where it should here http://www.healthpoint.com.au/new2.php want the stuff that starts home new2 to sit up in the middle there and it just won't!! driving me nuts, nuts, nuts. It won't sit up there because all the content you want to sit beside that floated navinsert are block level elements with widths of 100%. ie: (150px + 100%) width does not fit into the 100% width of the parent container. That's why the content wraps below. Sounds dubious? Add display:inline; to your H2 and it will jump straight up there. As for a fix, your wrapping container is fixed width, so enclose all your middle content in a div that is 800px-(side columns widths) wide and float this left. hth, Ben http://www.daemon.com.au/ Note: Your container is set at 800px wide. If you're targeting PC 800x600 minimum screen resolution, this should be 770px max, to take into account browser chrome and scrollbar. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Semantic vs Accessibile markup
And don't get me started on dls ;) this bit seems to have been swept under the carpet.. I'm really interested to hear what is wrong with dl's for navigation as, to my pedantic and not so up there with css sort of a mind, it actually seems like a pretty darn good idea to me. Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:44 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic vs Accessibile markup And don't get me started on dls ;) Come on then... about the dls ;o) I was going to suggest them, since the inclusion of the dt as well as the dd has its' benefits. However, I know there are some downsides (but I am yet to come across a significant one). Kind regards Martin Chapman -- Web development, identity and design. co-ord.com Limited 9 Tynwald Road West Kirby Merseyside CH48 4DA Tel: +44 (0)151 625 1443 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.co-ord.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Positioning driving me nuts
In my wisdom i have decided to revamp a site that's not even finished yet and now I've broke it!! Why won't the content sit up where it should here http://www.healthpoint.com.au/new2.php want the stuff that starts home new2 to sit up in the middle there and it just won't!! driving me nuts, nuts, nuts. Please help...i keep looking but cant see the wood for the trees. code is here http://www.healthpoint.com.au/css/new.css Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[WSG] Benefits or not of @import style sheets
Afternoon all... Can someone please explain to me the benefits of the @import thing or point me in the right direction to see why i should use it please. Jackie Reid
[WSG] Why cant i see the bullets?
Hello Group... I need a bit of help here...ould someone pleaseexplainwhyI can'tsee the bullets in myulin IE... looks fine in firebird so whats the go! NOTE! - please ignore colours etc just working on the layout atm http://www.mockorange.com.au/test/one/index.php http://www.mockorange.com.au/test/one/css/first.css Thanks Jackie ReidMock Orange Web Site Development1st Floor92 Victoria StreetMACKAY Q 4740Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Why cant i see the bullets?
Whooops... didn't notice that and have been looking
at the code till blue in the face... unfortunately didn't seem to fix it any
other ideas? ...please :)
Jackie Reid
- Original Message -
From:
Michael Donnermeyer
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:23
AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Why cant i see the
bullets?
li {color: #000;margin-top: 1px; background-color:
#bebe9d;padding: 1px 1px 1px 10px}try putting the missing ; in there at the end of the
padding...might be the issue.MDOn Feb 16, 2004, at 18:52,
Jackie Reid wrote:
Hello Group...I
need a bit of help here...ould someone pleaseexplainwhyI
can'tsee the bullets in myulin IE... looks fine in
firebird so whats the go!NOTE!
- please ignore colours etc just working on the layout atmhttp://www.mockorange.com.au/test/one/index.phphttp://www.mockorange.com.au/test/one/css/first.cssThanksJackie
ReidMock
Orange Web Site Development1st
Floor92
Victoria StreetMACKAY
Q 4740Ph:
07 4953 4035[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Why cant i see the bullets?
Well Crikey!!!
what do you know that works...
brilliant ...thanks so much...I'm happy now. ;o)
Jackie Reid
- Original Message -
From: Luc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jackie Reid on wsg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Why cant i see the bullets?
Hello Jackie,
It was foretold that on 17-2-2004 @ 10:39:10 GMT+1000 (which was
1:39:10 where I live) Jackie Reid would mumble:
snipped a bit
JR unfortunately didn't seem to fix it any other ideas?
ul {
list-style-type: disc;
list-style-position:inside;
margin-top: 6px;
width: 60%;}
That should do it (tested it localy, not online though)
--
Best regards,
Luc
_
http://www.dzinelabs.com
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Re: [WSG] Friday Afternoon Funny
Hi Chris I thought that was really really funny and so did everyone else in the office. in fact its going to join the other quotes I have printed out and stuck on the wall that we read when we need to raise a smile in times of stress. Jackie Reid Mock Orange Web Site Development 1st Floor 92 Victoria Street MACKAY Q 4740 Ph: 07 4953 4035 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Chris Blown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Friday Afternoon Funny Of course James, I know that for sure, just thought it was a funny way of putting it.. the paragraph is under 500px wide anyway I've tried to read without moving my eyes and its pretty hard.. ;) Chris On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 17:23, James Ellis wrote: Hi Chris This is an important point they have raised - they are looking at peripheral vision. We see a circle of about 6cm on screen in one go - anything larger we have to move our eyes to take in more. This is why newspapers tend to be in columns etc etc. The Zed man has some good writeups on how ~430px (whats the em?) is about the right line length - @ alistapart although where it is I don't know as the search function has disappeared from that site. Cheers James Chris Blown wrote: Thought I'd share this one with everyone, we received a list of corrections today from one of our clients, and we found a particularly humorous snippet. This correction was given in relation to paragraph line length. It makes it hard for people to read if they have to keep moving their eyes LOL! Cheers Chris Blown * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap
Hey Russyes i do... and here it is... http://www.healthpoint.com.au/new/default.php I seem to have all the side bits sorted out ( I should note that this is my first attempt at a css only site ... actually my first styly sheet...so you may find some crashing blunders in there as i am just feeling my way along here!!!) The bit i am talking about is the large image of mum and kid... if i dont have enough content in that area...content changes every month... it all sits up at the top and then i have this massive space under it. I hate that. The other thing is when i dont have enough content to fill the section the next header eg beauty slides up into the top section.. i hate that too!!! This is going to apply to all the lower sections too as there will be images in each department. Well that got that little lot off my chest. any help at all would be hugely appreciated as i am all tuckered out here!!! Cheers Jackie - Original Message - From: russ weakley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Web Standards Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap Hi Jackie, As with Michael the other day, welcome to the list! Have you got a URL so we can see it in action? Re: Image float etc Have finally found time to sit and read all the emails that come through from you guys and lo and behold you answered the question that had been driving me mad about image float and text wrap so thank you all for that. Now i have another question. If i dont have enough text to fill the space taken by the image is there any way i can get the text to align itself horizontally to the image so that theres not a pile of space under the content before the next lot of content comes in. (does that make sense?) Jackie * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
