It seems fairly obvious to me that a large component of thinking is based
upon visually derived concepts. In evolutionary terms language arrived late
to the party, or only existed in primitive low bandwidth forms of
communication.
If you think only in terms of linguistics many common techniques
Bob:It seems fairly obvious to me that a large component of thinking is based
upon visually derived concepts. In evolutionary terms language arrived late to
the party, or only existed in primitive low bandwidth forms of communication.
Hi, Bob, I'm particularly interested in your response here.
On 16/02/2008, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you respond to what I think is probably my most important assertion re
you - and that is : we don't actually see shots in any photo or any real
scene period - i.e. we don't see pure spatial arrangements of objects. We
see every shot as a
Mike,
It is well recognized that as well as declarative and procedural
memory, the human
brain contains a substantial episodic memory aspect, which stores some sort of
abstracted movies of a mind's history. Clearly, matching of
abstracted-movie-subsets against
others is important, and variation
To test the power of visual reasoning, here is a rough visual
explanation on two very different ways for symbols to get their
meaning:
http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/wang.semantics-figure.pdf
Pei
---
agi
Archives:
On 16/02/2008, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is well recognized that as well as declarative and procedural
memory, the human
brain contains a substantial episodic memory aspect, which stores some sort
of
abstracted movies of a mind's history. Clearly, matching of
Ben,
Yes I'm making the strong claim re consciousness/thought are movies-based.
Yes, I don't begin to try and explain it re programs - I will do a bit more
towards that soon - I just wanted to give first a sense how it could be
possible, and I hope you agree that that is/has been v. difficult
Well, hardware software
development is going pretty fast in this direction due to the video
game and movie-viewing market,
so I have every expectation that within 5-10 years, commodity hardware will be
DAMN powerful at video manipulation... which will be a real boon to this kind
of AI ...
Right
Mike,
A individual symbol can represent an image, in the sense of standing for it
in a higher level representation, but I tend to think of the image itself
being represented as some sort of data structure comprised of many symbols,
such as a vector or a set of activations in a hierarchical
PeI: To test the power of visual reasoning, here is a rough visual
explanation on two very different ways for symbols to get their
meaning:
http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/wang.semantics-figure.pdf
Wow, I have to stop talking but this is really stimulating. Your
paper/illustrations are v.
Mike Tintner ### Ed Co, Rather than answer your objections directly,
I propose to :
1) In this post, demonstrate that visual reasoning while still regarded by
our culture generally ( not just AI/AGI) as a minimal and peripheral part
of our thinking actually plays a massive and fairly
If you really have read that paper carefully, you shouldn't ask me to
define the meaning of any concept, verbally or not.
Pei
On Feb 16, 2008 11:52 AM, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PeI: To test the power of visual reasoning, here is a rough visual
explanation on two very different
To avoid further confusion about what I propose, let me cite from
http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/wang.semantics.pdf
--- page 23 ---
... we do not mean that a word in a natural language gets its
meaning only by its relation with other words in the language, because human
experience is not
--- Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
PeI: To test the power of visual reasoning, here is a rough visual
explanation on two very different ways for symbols to get their
meaning:
http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/wang.semantics-figure.pdf
Wow, I have to stop talking but this is
Pei,
First I carefully read your pdf which only talks re symbols:
The meaning of a symbol is in its
relations with other symbols; the
truth-value of a statement indicates
how close it is to the evidence
Below you talk about more - images/motor sequences etc - well how do they
integrate with
As other people have pointed out in previous discussions, symbols in
the broad sense also include mental images, actions, etc. There is no
fundamental difference between a neuron group corresponding to a word,
that another one corresponding to an image, as far as this discussion
is concerned.
On 16/02/2008, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pretty at sea here, but could this in any way explain why the image on the
retina is so distorted compared with the actual image we perceive?
Yes. From Huth's paper:
This geometrically defined pattern on the retina might then be seen
as the
Bob: The way I imagine that such experiences might be stored in the brain
is as a three dimensional fourier space, with neuron firing rates
representing the constituent phases. A few people believe that
fourier analysis occurs at the earliest stages of vision
(http://www.ghuth.com/) and
On Feb 16, 2008 11:11 PM, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From Huth:
Combined with the equally well understood principles of self-organized
molecular lipid bilayers, one can visualize formation of the primordial
eye - as the result of light shining through a drop of water?
Pretty at
Mike,
Are you serious or do you just like to draw attention to yourself on this
list by making outlandish statements?
I don't think you understand just how sophistication many visual processing
programs are. For example, about ten years ago I heard a presentation at
MIT by a grad student
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