On May 16, 2007 10:05 AM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, a pretty good article in a very public place
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18684016/?GT1=9951
I don't get it. It says that flies movie in accordance with a
non-flat distribution instead of a flat distribution. That has
On Dec 14, 2007 9:07 AM, Benjamin Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just to be clear: I am sure that mindreading technology is coming,
it's your relative
timing estimate that perplexes me...
Wasn't me that said it, but...
If we define mindreading as knowing whether someone is telling the
Oh - I haven't read the report, but I did look into the state of the
art of BCI several months ago. Some things I remember:
- Arrays can receive pulses from at most 100 neurons.
- Wireless devices don't have enough bandwidth to transmit the pulses
from more than about 100 neurons. Even doing
On 6/22/07, Bo Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You make AGI sound like a members only club by this obligatory
comment. ;)
Reinforcement learning is a simple theory that only solves problems for
which we can design value functions.
Can you explain what you mean by a value function?
If success
On 4/10/07, Benjamin Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mathematical code is exactly what's MOST EASILY OPTIMIZABLE using
techniques as exist in the Stalin Scheme compiler, or better yet in the Java
supercompiler.
Each numeric operation is of course no faster after optimized or super
On 3/20/07, David Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Java has static typing and no introspection. It has no way of making
programs of itself and then executing them. Multiple running programs
require very expensive multi-threading and the huge mutex overhead for
synchronization.
Java has more
On 3/23/07, Samantha Atknis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
8,Fast where most of the processing is done.
In the language or in things written in the language or both? Lisp has
been interpreted and compiled simultaneously and nearly seamlessly for 20
years and has efficiency approaching compiled C
On 3/19/07, rooftop8000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, I've been thinking for a bit about how a big collaboration AI project
could work. I browsed the archives and i see you guys have similar
ideas
I'd love to see someone build a system that is capable of adding any
kind of AI algorithm/idea
Some more notes on cognitive infrastructures:
IKAROS (http://www.lucs.lu.se/IKAROS/index.html)
IKAROS components correspond to brain areas, which are linked to each
other through arrays of real variables that represent neurons. IKAROS
is focused on representing the human brain accurately at a
On 3/23/07, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Additionally, we need real-time, very fast coordinated usage of multiple
processors in an SMP environment. Java, for one example, is really slow
at context switching between different threads.
Java's threads are fairly heavy. You can use
On 1/18/07, YKY (Yan King Yin) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Totally disagree! I actually examined a few cases of *real-life*
commonsense inference steps,
and I found that they are based on a *small* number of tiny rules of
thought. I don't know why
you think massive knowledge items are needed
On 1/12/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.thermostatshop.com/
Not sure what you've been Googling on but here they are.
Haven't been googling. But the fact is that I've never actually
/seen/ one in the wild. My point is that the market demand for such
simple and
On 06/01/07, Gary Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I like the idea of the house being the central AI though and communicating
to
house robots through an wireless encrypted protocol to prevent inadvertant
commands from other systems and hacking.
This is the way it's going to go in my opinion.
On 1/6/07, Bob Mottram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Reflectors have been used on AGVs for quite some time. However, even using
reflectors the robot has no real idea of what its environment looks like.
Most of the time it's flying blind, guessing its way between reflectors,
like a moth navigating
On 10/23/06, Bob Mottram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Grinding my own axe, I also think that stereo vision systems will bring
significant improvements to robotics over the next few years. Being able to
build videogame-like 3D models of the environment in real time is now a
feasible proposition
On 12/2/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know a little about network intrusion anomaly detection (it was my
dissertation topic), and yes it is an important lessson.
The reason such anomalies occur is
because when attackers craft exploits, they follow enough of the protocol to
make
On 12/22/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't consider there is any correct language for stuff like this,
but I believe my use of supergoal is more standard than yours...
It's just that, on this list in particular, when people speak of
supergoals, they're usually asking whether
On 12/7/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
erased along with it. So, e.g. even though you give up your supergoal
of drinking yourself to death, you may involuntarily retain your
subgoal of drinking (even though you started doing it only out of a
desire to drink yourself to death).
I
On 12/13/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Nope. I think, for example, that the process of evolution is universal -- it
shows the key feature of exponential learning growth, but with a very slow
clock. So there're other models besides a mammalian brain.
My mental model is to
On 12/8/06, Bob Mottram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hinton basically seems to be using the same kind of architecture as Edelman,
in that you have both bottom-up and top-down streams of information (or I
often just call this feed-forward and feed-back to keep the terminology more
consistent with
On 12/5/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Eric Baum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matt We have slowed evolution through medical advances, birth control
Matt and genetic engineering, but I don't think we have stopped it
Matt completely yet.
I don't know what reason there is to think
On 12/5/06, BillK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The good news is that Minsky appears to be making the book available
online at present on his web site. *Download quick!*
http://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/
See under publications, chapters 1 to 9.
The Emotion Machine 9/6/2006( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
On 12/8/06, J. Storrs Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If I had to guess, I would say the boundary is at about IQ 140, so the top 1%
of humanity is universal -- but that's pure speculation; it may well be that
no human is universal, because of inductive bias, and it takes a community to
search the
On 12/4/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why must you argue with everything I say? Is this not a sensible
statement?
I don't argue with everything you say. I only argue with things that I
believe are wrong. And no, the statements You cannot turn off hunger or
pain. You cannot
On 12/4/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The statement, You cannot turn off hunger or pain is sensible.
In fact, it's one of the few statements in the English language that
is LITERALLY so. Philosophically, it's more certain than
I think, therefore I am.
If you maintain your
On 12/3/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This sounds very Searlian. The only test you seem to be referring to
is the Chinese Room test.
You misunderstand. The test is being able to form cognitive structures that
can serve as the basis for later more complicated cognitive structures.
On 12/1/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Friday 01 December 2006 20:06, Philip Goetz wrote:
Thus, I don't think my ability to follow rules written on paper to
implement a Turing machine proves that the operations powering my
consciousness are Turing-complete.
Actually, I
On 12/4/06, Philip Goetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you maintain your assertion, I'll put you in my killfile, because
we cannot communicate.
Richard Loosemore told me that I'm overreacting. I can tell that I'm
overly emotional over this, so it might be true. Sorry for flaming.
I am
On 12/2/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A nice story but it proves absolutely nothing . . . . .
It proves to me that there is no point in continuing this debate.
Further, and more importantly, the pattern matcher *doesn't* understand it's
results either and certainly could build upon
On 12/2/06, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am disputing the very idea that monkeys (or rats or pigeons or humans)
have a part of the brain which generates the reward/punishment signal
for operant conditioning.
Well, there is a part of the brain which generates a
On 12/2/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Philip Goetz snidely responded
Some people would call it repeating the same mistakes I already dealt
with.
Some people would call it continuing to disagree. :)
Richard's point was that the poster was simply repeating previous points
On 11/30/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
With many SVD systems, however, the representation is more vector-like
and *not* conducive to easy translation to human terms. I have two answers
to these cases. Answer 1 is that it is still easy for a human to look at
the closest matches to
On 12/1/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think so. The singulatarians tend to have this mental model of a
superintelligence that is essentially an analogy of the difference between an
animal and a human. My model is different. I think there's a level of
universality,
On 11/28/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
First order logic (FOL) is good for expressing simple facts like all birds have wings or no
bird has hair, but not for statements like most birds can fly. To do that you have to at
least extend it with fuzzy logic (probability and
Oops - looking back at my earlier post, I said that English sentences
translate neatly into predicate logic statements. I should have left
out logic. I like using predicates to organize sentences. I made
that post because Josh was pointing out some of the problems with
logic, but then making
On 11/14/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matt Mahoney wrote:
Models that are simple enough to debug are too simple to scale.
The contents of a knowledge base for AGI will be beyond our ability to
comprehend.
Given sufficient time, anything should be able to be understood and
On 11/29/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I defy you to show me *any* black-box method that has predictive power
outside the bounds of it's training set. All that the black-box methods are
doing is curve-fitting. If you give them enough variables they can brute
force solutions through
On 11/29/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you look into the literature of the past 20 years, you will easily
find several thousand examples.
I'm sorry but either you didn't understand my point or you don't know
what you are talking about (and the constant terseness of your
On 11/29/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wednesday 29 November 2006 16:04, Philip Goetz wrote:
On 11/29/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There will be many occurances of the smaller subregions, corresponding to
all different sizes and positions of Tom's
On 10/31/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This looks exciting...
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=302type=expertpid=1
A system Intel is envisioning, with 100 tightly connected cores on a
chip, each with 32MB of local SRAM ...
If you want to go in that direction, you can start
On 11/19/06, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The goal-stack AI might very well turn out simply not to be a workable
design at all! I really do mean that: it won't become intelligent
enough to be a threat. Specifically, we may find that the kind of
system that drives itself using
On 11/17/06, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was saying that *because* (for independent reasons) these people's
usage of terms like intelligence is so disconnected from commonsense
usage (they idealize so extremely that the sense of the word no longer
bears a reasonable connection
On 11/24/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Friday 24 November 2006 06:03, YKY (Yan King Yin) wrote:
You talked mainly about how sentences require vast amounts of external
knowledge to interpret, but it does not imply that those sentences cannot
be represented in (predicate)
On 11/27/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
An issue with Hopfield content-addressable memories is that their
memory capability gets worse and worse as the networks get sparser and
sparser. I did some experiments on this in 1997, though I never
bothered to publish the results ... some
On 11/26/06, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Therefore, the problem of using an n-space representation for AGI is
not its theoretical possibility (it is possible), but its practical
feasibility. I have no doubt that for many limited application,
n-space representation is the most natural and
as predicates magically provides semantics.
On 11/28/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tuesday 28 November 2006 14:47, Philip Goetz wrote:
The use of predicates for representation, and the use of logic for
reasoning, are separate issues. I think it's pretty clear that
English
Oops, Matt actually is making a different objection than Josh.
Now it seems to me that you need to understand sentences before you can
translate them into FOL, not the other way around. Before you can translate to
FOL you have to parse the sentence, and before you can parse it you have to
On 11/28/06, J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry -- should have been clearer. Constructive Solid Geometry. Manipulating
shapes in high- (possibly infinite-) dimensional spaces.
Suppose I want to represent a face as a point in a space. First, represent it
as a raster. That is in
On 11/9/06, Eric Baum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is true that much modern encryption is based on simple algorithms.
However, some crypto-experts would advise more primitive approaches.
RSA is not known to be hard, even if P!=NP, someone may find a
number-theoretic trick tomorrow that factors.
On 10/19/06, Olie Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For instance, the soccer-bots get better every year, cars can now finish
DARPA grand challenge -like events in reasonable time... (I personally
think that we're fast approaching a critical point where the technology is
just good enough to attract
On 10/20/06, Josh Treadwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The resembling system is only capable of processing information based on
algorithms, and not reworking an algorithm based on the reasoning for
executing the function.
This appears to be the same argument Spock made in an old Star Trek
On 10/19/06, Peter Voss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm often asked about state-of-the-art in AI, and would like to get some
opinions.
What do you regard, or what is generally regarded as SOTA in the various AI
aspects that may be, or may be seen to be relevant to AGI?
- NLP components such as
Commercially, I'm not sure if OS or CS is better. Remember Steve Job's
APPLE lost the PC market to IBM because IBM provided a more open
architecture (in addition to the fact that IBM was more resourceful). We
need to be careful not to lose the same way...
Remember also that IBM lost its OWN
On 9/4/06, Charles D Hixson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Philip Goetz wrote:
It is a good idea, for these reasons:
1. The money would be paid to the people who wrote the software.
Under the GPL model you're promoting, the authors get nothing.
The GPL does not prohibit you from selling
On 8/30/06, Charles D Hixson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
... some snipping ...
- Phil
The idea with the GPL is that if you want to also sell the program
commercially, you should additionally make it available under an
alternate license. Some companies have been successful in this mode.
On 9/1/06, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rather than cash payments I have in mind a scheme
similar to the pre-world wide web bulletin board
system in which FTP sites had upload and download
ratios. If you wished to benefit from the site by
downloading, you had to maintain a certain
On 8/28/06, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
An assumption that some may challenge is that AGI
software should be free in the first place. I think
that this approach has proved useful for both software
(e.g. MySQL database) and knowledge (Wikipedia).
Could additional terms and conditions
Wilbur Peng I developed a set of standards for AGI components,
called MAGIC, that was intended to form the foundation of an
open-source AGI effort. Unfortunately, the company decided not to
make MAGIC open-source, rather losing sight of the entire purpose of
the project. I can describe MAGIC,
On 8/25/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I stated earlier, the fact that there is normal variation in human language
models makes it easier for a machine to pass the Turing test. However, a
machine with a lossless model will still outperform one with a lossy model
because the
On 8/20/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The argument for lossy vs. lossless compression as a test for AI seems to be
motivated by the fact that humans use lossy compression to store memory, and
cannot do lossless compression at all. The reason is that lossless
compression requires
On 8/20/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Uncompressed video would be the absolutely worst type of test data.
Uncompressed video is about 10^8 to 10^9 bits per second. The human brain
has a long term learning rate of around 10 bits per second. So all the rest
is noise. How are you
A further example is:
S1 = The fall of the Roman empire is due to Christianity.
S2 = The fall of the Roman empire is due to lead poisoning.
I'm not sure whether S1 or S2 is more true. But the question is how can
you define the meaning of the NTV associated with S1 or S2? If we can't,
why
On 8/15/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Phil, I see no conceptual problems with using probability theory to
define context-dependent or viewpoint-dependent probabilities...
Regarding YKY's example, causation is a subtle concept going beyond
probability (but strongly probabilistically
On 8/15/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben Conceptually, a better (though still deeply flawed) contest would be:
Compress this file of advanced knowledge, assuming as background
knowledge this other file of elementary knowledge, in terms of which
the advanced knowledge is defined.
On 8/15/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben wrote:
Conceptually, a better (though still deeply flawed) contest would be:
Compress this file of advanced knowledge, assuming as background
knowledge this other file of elementary knowledge, in terms of which
the advanced knowledge is
On 8/15/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually, instructing the competitors to compress both the OpenCyc corpus
AND then the Wikipedia sample in sequence and measuring the size of both
*would* be an interesting and probably good contest.
I think it would be more interesting for it to
I proposed knowledge-based text compression as a dissertation topic,
back around 1991, but my advisor turned it down. I never got back to
the topic because there wasn't any money in it - text is already so
small, relative to audio and video, that it was clear that the money
was in audio and
On 8/15/06, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I realize it is tempting to use lossy text compression as a test for AI
because that is what the human brain does when we read text and recall it in
paraphrased fashion. We remember the ideas and discard details about the
expression of those
On 8/15/06, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think it would be more interesting for it to use the OpenCyc corpus
as its knowledge for compressing the Wikipedia sample. The point is
to demonstrate intelligent use of information, not to get a wider
variety of data.
:-) My assumption is
On 7/31/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Google's data will be accessible to any AI anywhere, right?
No. Google's data will be /searchable/, only in that any AI anywhere
can submit a search expression, and get back a few scraps of the text.
But the data is still under copyright,
An article with an opposing point of view than the one I mentioned yesterday...
http://www.bcs.rochester.edu/people/alex/pub/articles/KnillPougetTINS04.pdf
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On 6/9/06, Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most of information is visual, and retina purportedly compresses 1:126
(obviously, some of it lossy).
http://www.4colorvision.com/dynamics/mechanism.htm
claims 23000 receptor cells on the foveola, so I would just
do a rough calculation of some 50
Various people have the notion that events, concepts, etc., are
represented in the brain as a combination of various sensory percepts,
contexts, subconcepts, etc. This leads to a representational scheme
in which some associational cortex links together the sub-parts making
up a concept or a
Why do we have both an email list and a forum?
Seems they both serve the same purpose.
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An interesting abstract, from a talk presented at the 10th intl. conf
on cognitive neural systems last month:
A brain without bayes: Temporal dynamics of decision-making during
form motion perception by the laminar circuits of visual cortex
by Praveen Pilly Stephen Grossberg
Does anyone know how to compute how much information, in bits, arrives
at the frontal lobes from the environment per second in a human?
For a specific brain region, you can compute its channel capacity if
you know the number of neurons, and the refractory period of the
neurons in that region,
On 5/30/06, Yan King Yin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It seems that your approach is to store the function add(x,y) directly
*inside* a node. This destroys the nice uniformity of the KR. Secondly,
the AGI should be able to process addition just like ANY other concept.
add(x,y) is inside a node
On the subject of declarative memories vs procedural ones, I've come across
accounts of patients who lost their declarative memory totally (the common
amnesia), but retained procedural memory. For example, the patient was able
to drive or dine with forks and knives etc but forgot everything that
On 5/25/06, Eliezer S. Yudkowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ben Goertzel wrote:
I wonder if anyone knows of any mathematical analysis of superrationality.
I worked out an analysis based on correlated computational processes -
you treat your own decision system as a special case of computation
Tell me if this is also a superrationality-type issue:
I commented to Eliezer that, during the last panel of the conference,
I looked around for Eliezer didn't find him, and wondered if there
was a bomb in the room. He replied something to the effect that he
has a strong committment to ethics.
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