Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Vladimir Nesov
You need to name those parameters in a sentence only because it's linear, in a graph they can correspond to unnamed nodes. Abstractions can have structure, and their applicability can depend on how their structure matches the current scene. If you retain in a scene graph only relations you mention,

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Richard Loosemore
Harry Chesley wrote: I'm trying to get an idea of how our minds handle the tension between identity and abstraction, and it occurs to me that there have probably been human subject experiments that would shed light on this. Does anyone know of any? The basic issue: On the one hand, we identif

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Harry Chesley
On 1/9/2009 9:28 AM, Vladimir Nesov wrote: You need to name those parameters in a sentence only because it's linear, in a graph they can correspond to unnamed nodes. Abstractions can have structure, and their applicability can depend on how their structure matches the current scene. If you re

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Harry Chesley
On 1/9/2009 9:45 AM, Richard Loosemore wrote: There are certainly experiments that might address some of your concerns, but I am afraid you will have to acquire a general knowledge of what is known, first, to be able to make sense of what they might tell you. There is nothing that can be plu

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Richard Loosemore
Harry Chesley wrote: On 1/9/2009 9:45 AM, Richard Loosemore wrote: There are certainly experiments that might address some of your concerns, but I am afraid you will have to acquire a general knowledge of what is known, first, to be able to make sense of what they might tell you. There is n

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Vladimir Nesov
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Harry Chesley wrote: > On 1/9/2009 9:28 AM, Vladimir Nesov wrote: >> >> You need to name those parameters in a sentence only because it's >> linear, in a graph they can correspond to unnamed nodes. Abstractions >> can have structure, and their applicability can d

RE: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Ed Porter
Harry, Obviously this is an issue any intelligent AGI has to deal with. However, at high level I don't think it is that mysterious, although, like most things in AGI, in detail it would have quite a few wrinkles, most of which a properly designed AGI should learn to deal with automatically.

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-09 Thread Ronald C. Blue
"object perception" Identity is the abstraction that you are focusing your attention on. Habituation is stimulus specific and does not reduce the responsiveness for stimuli you are currently ignoring. As such after habituation or eye movement new abstract interpretations to NAME an identity

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-10 Thread Harry Chesley
Thanks for the more specific answer. It was the most illuminating of the ones I've gotten. I realize that this isn't really the right list for questions about human subjects experiments; just thought I'd give it a try. Richard Loosemore wrote: > Harry Chesley wrote: >> On 1/9/2009 9:45 AM, Richard

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-10 Thread Richard Loosemore
Harry Chesley wrote: Thanks for the more specific answer. It was the most illuminating of the ones I've gotten. I realize that this isn't really the right list for questions about human subjects experiments; just thought I'd give it a try. In general no. But that is my specialty. Richard Loo

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-11 Thread Ronald C. Blue
I would agree that the ABC example is an analogy. Generally speaking I am quickly successful in explaining how you can model the brain in electronic to people with backgrounds in analog electronics. The historical efforts in this direction of associationism and opponent process go all the way

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-11 Thread Mike Tintner
phor, but also visual object recognition. The brain has to continually compare objects of radically different shapes to visually recognize them as being of the same kind - as being basically say the same form of squashed "ball", or squished "face", or very diversely

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-11 Thread Richard Loosemore
Ronald C. Blue wrote: I would agree that we are mutually close in ideas. Also current programming efforts at AI will not be wasted because those action packs can be used as seed for any AGI machine that has self control and awareness. Actually there are many paths to new AGI machines, we even

Re: [agi] Identity & abstraction

2009-01-11 Thread Ronald C. Blue
Richard Loosemore: no pictures request University of Warwick M.Sc,, Psychology, 1986 - 1987 University College London, U. of London B.Sc., Physics Astronomy, 1976 - 1979 >>> The picture of an oscillion made of brass balls created in a global-local memory system in vibrating brass balls