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On 30/12/2010 1:13 AM, Susan Maneck wrote:
My religion is Baha'i which teaches us to respect Islam.
Dear Susan,
Respecting Islam is not the same as respecting Muslims with whatever
they believe as Islamic. I think these days what many Muslims believe is
not the
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Susan stop making things up. Abdulbaha never said all of mohammed's actions
were defensive. What does defensive mean anyway? Killing is killing either
way.
Sent by iPhone
On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:09 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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Susan, you don't know Baha'i writings.
Sent by iPhone
On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:10 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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Just warfare is in the context of collective security, in order to stop an
aggressor.
So is jihad when
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Susan is a Muslim just like Sen. I'm telling you.
On Dec 29, 2010, at 11:28 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. iskandar@gmail.com
wrote:
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I am just stating the facts. You draw your own conclusions. So, the raids
were ordered by Muhammad
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*In my Church and State and on my blog, I've presented an alternative
explanation of the role of Muhammad and the Meccan Muslims in Medina.*
Sen your blog is a front for Muslim expansion. You are an anti-Bahai. We
atheists see you! :)
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The founder of Bahaism abolished Jihad and the dispensation of the
Quran and all other unholy Books like the Hindu books.
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Ignore Susan and Sen,
they are superstitious Allah lovers and haters of light and good deeds.
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A detailed study into the blatant plagiarism of Talmud Texts in the Koran.
The Koran plagiarizes the comments made by Rabbis in the 2nd century
Talmidic texts The Mishnah...
A detailed study into the blatant plagiarism of Talmud Texts in the Koran.
The Koran
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Don't believe his lies in his blogs.
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And a spy.
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Subscribe: send
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They are all false.
Bahai is not a religion.
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Muslims worship one idol, the black rock.
Hindus worship many rocks.
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Muslims get no latitude until they FIRST give freedom to atheists in Muslims
countries.
You have no right to speak here among atheists.
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Since when are we obligated to accept `Abdu'l-Baha's judgment on a matter of
history? And history of another religion?
I see. So you don't think Abdu'l-Baha knew anything about Muhammad's
motivations.
An unprovoked raid is an act of offense.
Last I heard
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Susan is a covenant breaker
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Respecting Islam is not the same as respecting Muslims with whatever they
believe as Islamic.
Granted, but this is not what Iskandar is attacking. He is having a
temper tantrum because he doesn't want Gilberto on this list. I've not
seen Gilberto representing any of
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1. Azalis aren't covenant breakers
2. Therefore, I can't be both a covenant breaker and an Azali
3. Notwithstanding the fact that I am neither
4. The House of Justice has never obligated anyone to go through the Ruhi
books
Try again.
On Thu, Dec 30,
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I think perennialism leaves us
in the Dark Ages, but triumphalism is not good either. I was rather
pleased to see the House of Justice criticize that attitude in their
recent letter to the Counsellors.
Same here, tho I think what they are objecting to is not
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Is the letter available to the public online?
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Don Calkins
montana...@great-falls.net wrote:
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I think perennialism leaves us
in the Dark Ages, but triumphalism is not good either. I was rather
pleased to
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Please don't feed the trolls.
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If you loved your house of justice you would obey them from love not obligation
Typical Muslim-minded Baha'i you are.
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Read your Iqan.
Atheist trumps all beliefs and faiths, it is certain.
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Is the letter available to the public online?
It is being passed around the internet, but I don't think it is on any
particular website. It was just released a day or so ago. It outlines
the next Five Year Plan and most of it would not be of use to you, but
let me see
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Gilberto Simpson
gilberto.simp...@gmail.com wrote:
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
I am a man from Mars. Argue your points from a rational point of
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Sen, what you are desrcribing is police or sheriff function.
I'm talking about jihad the way it is normally understood to mean. Holy War,
or unholy war. When someone puts a sword to your neck until you say the
shahadah. That's ugly and unholy.
Baha'u'llah did not
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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Since when are we obligated to accept `Abdu'l-Baha's judgment on a matter
of history? And history of another religion?
I see. So you don't think Abdu'l-Baha knew
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
I am telling you what your Muslim texts say. That's all.
Ibn Ishaq and the other sources you referenced aren't Muslim texts.
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Nice. So, now, I am the bad guy. I am having a temper tantrum. Thanks for
the ad hominem, Susan. Go ahead. Hurl more personal attacks on me.
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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Respecting Islam is not
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You are being very selective again. Very convenient. Doesn't surprise me.
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that ibn Ishaq was a Jewish anti-Muslim text.
It's in Bukhari too.
There are dark passages in the Quran as well. Beating your wife is one. Not
befriending
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Iskandar wrote: It is `Abdu'l-Baha's understang and judgement of history. I am
not sure we are obligated to just swallow it whole, uncritically.
I say: No it is not. Abdulbaha was being diplomatic by covering muhammad's
sins and the satanic origins of Quran. With
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
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You are being very selective again. Very convenient. Doesn't surprise me.
Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that ibn Ishaq was a Jewish anti-Muslim text.
I
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On 30 Dec 2010 at 12:25, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
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Is the letter available to the public online?
Yes, on my blog at -
http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/uhj-message-28-dec/
but it does not actually refer to triumphalism (but see Self-
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The warning about
triumphalism was in the Ridvan message
http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/ridvan-201/
While conveying enthusiasm about their beliefs, the friends should
guard against projecting an air of triumphalism, hardly appropriate
among themselves, much
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Don't compare Baha'i to Islam. There is no comparison.
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Sen you are neither divine nor learned.
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So, now you just want to deny all the raid episodes altogether?
Earlier you were saying that the raids were for purposes of getting their
property back. Now you are questioning the early sources? How convenient.
There were more than half a dozen raids, not all of them
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Of course he will deny it. He believes allah, some guy with a long beard,
send the koran to muhammad. How could this koran possibly say anything
improper, and how could mohamed do anything improper?
Moses wasnt a murderer according to this guy.
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
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So, now you just want to deny all the raid episodes altogether?
No. You made a specific claim that Muhammad had the Muslims attack
defenseless caravans in
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Are you Michael Zagarov
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:10 PM, atheistchallen...@gmail.com wrote:
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Sen you are neither divine nor learned.
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Who declared you the police of the Baha'is?
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Who declared you the police of the Baha'is?
This is a private list in which I was left in charge. You are not welcome here.
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He was called a covenant-breaker by some Baha'is in an audio chat room six
years ago, because he used a big word that they didn't understand or bother
to look up, in his chat room title. Ignorance takes on many forms, it
doesn't matter who you are.
On Thu, Dec 30,
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I declare Susan Maneck and Mark Foster covenant breakers for allowing covenant
breakers and Muslim spies on their mailing list.
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I declare Susan Maneck and Mark Foster covenant breakers for allowing
covenant breakers and Muslim spies on their mailing list.
As I indicated, I'd love to remove you but I don't have the tools. So
it is not a matter of 'allowing.'
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No, I did not say that particular story is in Bukhari. Maybe it is and maybe
it is not. But it is in early histories. Oh, sorry, I forgot that ibn Ishaq
was an anti-Muslim Jewish historian. But stories about Muhammad's caravan
raids are in Bukhari. Are you saying ibn
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Oh, sorry, I forgot that ibn Ishaq
was an anti-Muslim Jewish historian.
Actually there are historians who question the historicity of what is
said to have happened to the Banu Qurayza. They suggest Ibn Ishaq
relied to heavily on Jewish sources which conflated what
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This is the second time you have projected the anti-Muslim Jewish
historian comment onto Gilberto, and yet he has not made that statement a
single time..Not exactly the most fair tactic.
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
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Actually there are historians who question the historicity of what is
said to have happened to the Banu Qurayza. They suggest Ibn Ishaq
relied to heavily on Jewish sources which conflated what happened in
Medina with what happened at Masada centuries earlier.
Some
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Because he is so conveniently selective and always evasive.
Did the caravan raids occur or not?
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®, typed with fat fingers on
a small device.
-Original Message-
From: Matt Haase matthewhaa...@gmail.com
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Interesting.
What about the caravan raids?
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®, typed with fat fingers on
a small device.
-Original Message-
From: Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com
Sender: bounce-549365-2080...@list.jccc.eduDate: Thu, 30 Dec
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPziSd-Ut1Ufeature=related
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Bar Refaeli Model Profile-SI Swimsuit 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL_hW_7lrwfeature=related
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQUfeature=related
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Walid N. Arafat and Barakat
Ahmadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakat_Ahmad have
disputed that the Banu Qurayza were killed on quite such a large
scale.[62]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Meri1-61
Sounds like the Iranian policy that not that many
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gilberto Simpson
gilberto.simp...@gmail.com wrote:
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
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No, I did not say that particular
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Watt finds Arafat's arguments not entirely
convincing,[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Kurayza-0
while
Meir J. Kister has contradicted the arguments of Arafat and
Ahmad.[66]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-65
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Yes, you should respect all people regardless of their religious
affiliations. Even if you think we believe in stupid things, your religion
says you have to respect people of all religions. It doesn't say, respect
people of all religions, only if they agree with Baha'i
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Matt, you are lying, if it was beautiful you'd be Baha'i.
Firuz has it backwards. Individual persons are supposed to be respected, but
false ideologies and harmful philosophies are rejected.
Religious ideas are harmful to society, especially quranic ideas.
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What about the caravan raids?
What about them. The Meccans had expelled the Muslims and expropriated
their property. The caravans raids were attempts to address that
wrong. It doesn't have to be the same exact property. As for Muslim
breaking carrying this out during
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Even if you think we believe in stupid things, your religion
says you have to respect people of all religions. It doesn't say, respect
people of all religions, only if they agree with Baha'i teachings.
The Writings go further than that. They say we should consort
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Susan, is there a reason you are INSISTING that Muhamed did nothing wrong?
Jesus's was an illegitimate child (Mary had sex outside marriage) and Moses was
murderer. But Muhammad is sinless? A Muslim is a Muslim
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There is no hatred nor resentment on my part.
Your behaviour suggests otherwise.
The issues are the facts
And what do these so-called facts have to do with the list purpose?
Now that you know what the issues and the differences, etc., are, it is high
time for you
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Susan is intentionally spinning things again. I would be delighted to
discuss other topics with matt and Gilberto, like football or video games.
Would love that discussion even if they are muslims (consort with all
people). But if they want to discuss religion,
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This is a group for Muslims
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My work is done here, for now.
I'll be back. (the Terminator)
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Matt,
Please don't misinterpret the Teaching of my religion. Are you saying I
should respect the Iranian Islamic rulers for whatever they believe and
for whatever they do to my fellow Iranian Baha'is, just because they are
Muslims? Where have you found such
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Dear Susan,
How about Hidden Words saying Treasure the companionship of the
righteous and eschew all fellowship with the ungodly. I don't think
ungodly really means atheist here. Thinking about the Persian word
(ashrAr) means more to me as enemies. I think your
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Dear Susan,
How about Hidden Words saying Treasure the companionship of the
righteous and eschew all fellowship with the ungodly. I don't think
ungodly really means atheist here. Thinking about the Persian word
(ashrAr) means more to me
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Matt should definitely answer for himself, but I thought your response
was really a good example.
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Firouz fir...@thai-bahais.org wrote:
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Please don't misinterpret the Teaching of my religion.
I think that
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On 31/12/2010 11:25 AM, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
Speaking for myself, you should feel free to make all kinds of
specific criticisms of the actions of the Iranian government. But then
when you characterize their negative practices as Islamic then you
give the impression
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I think respect applies to persons, not to ideas or belief systems or
ideologies. If you critique a Christian or Islamic doctrine, belief, law, or
teaching, it doesn't mean you are disrespecting the Christian or Muslim
person. That's why you consort with people of all
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Oh, that's interesting. Someone from Atlanta steals your stuff. You can't
find him. You just go and steal some stuff from a person who is traveling to
or from Atlanta.
The four months are regarded in a special category in Islam. Nether did
Muhammad abrogate the four
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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There is no hatred nor resentment on my part.
Your behaviour suggests otherwise.
Well, what can I say.
This is not the first time that you are wrong.
The
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Anyone who finds *my* behaviour offensive is free to leave.
It won't surprise me, however, if Susan magically finds the tool to remove
members and removes me first.
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Susan Maneck sman...@gmail.com wrote:
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Not that I have any value for this list whatsoever, but if Iskandar is
removed, please remove me too.
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. iskandar@gmail.com
wrote:
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Anyone who finds *my* behaviour offensive is free
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يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلَا
يَقْرَبُوا الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَٰذَا ۚ وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ
عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ إِنْ شَاءَ ۚ إِنَّ
اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {28}
*[Shakir 9:28]* O you who
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Jesus Christ told the Jews that if they had known Moses, they would have
known or accepted Him (Jesus). And I believe both The Bab and Baha'u'llah
reiterate the same notion in many instances.
I think what you say, dear Firouz, is quite profound. Thanks.
Best regards,
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On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
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يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلَا
يَقْرَبُوا الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَٰذَا ۚ وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ
عَيْلَةً
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
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Oh, that's interesting. Someone from Atlanta steals your stuff. You can't
find him. You just go and steal some stuff from a person who is traveling to
or
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Dear Susan and Iskandar,
Alláh'u'Abhá
We are all brothers, and beyond differences of opinion, is that spiritual bond.
with all respect and love I say I think that your debate is losing its meaning.
Please take some air, I do not think this is offensive or hurtful to
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I am not interested in knowing what you do when/if you accidentally bump
into an atheist. I couldn't care less.
I am just reading what the text says. Nothing more and nothing less. And
it's not the kind of thing that looks like it will be the last word of God.
Your spin
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Firouz fir...@thai-bahais.org wrote:
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I think Baha'is are only true Muslims.
So if Bahais are true Muslims what should Sunnis and Shias call themselves?
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On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Gilberto Simpson
gilberto.simp...@gmail.com wrote:
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D.
iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
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Oh, that's interesting. Someone
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You can call yourself whatever you want.
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 12:55 AM, Gilberto Simpson
gilberto.simp...@gmail.com wrote:
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On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:47 PM, Firouz fir...@thai-bahais.org wrote:
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I think
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Dear Gilberto, such words have obviously an eschatological meaning, not
institutional, collegial, or legal.
http://husaynvillar.blogspot.com/
http://husayntraduce.blogspot.com/
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Gilberto either doesn't understand, or pretends that he does not understand,
or fails to admit that he doesn't get it. Either way, it does not matter.
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:01 AM, HUSA husaynvil...@yahoo.com wrote:
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Dear Gilberto,
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From “Fascist-Islamophobia”: A Case Study in Totalitarian Demonization - Part 3
by Dr. Robert Dickson Crane
The true facts of this “notorious” event were quite different, and the
lessons to be learned from it were the exact opposite of Spencer’s
conclusions. This
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No, that is not what I am saying. That is your knee-jerk reaction to what I
am saying. Everything goes back to the Iranian Baha'is. I am sorry for what
is happening to them, but it is not my fault. I speak out, I do what I can,
but it is not my fault.
On Thu, Dec 30,
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I find the idea of reconnaissance missions, in 624, quite amusing to say
the least.
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Gilberto Simpson
gilberto.simp...@gmail.com wrote:
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From “Fascist-Islamophobia”: A Case Study in Totalitarian
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I don't really enjoy Islam-Bahai polemics either but if someone says
something which seems disparaging, it is hard to let it by without comment.
Maybe if the group could agree to a clear set of guidelines for conduct (no
personal attacks, content should be relevant to
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On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:26 AM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. iskandar@gmail.com
wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I find the idea of reconnaissance missions, in 624, quite amusing to say
the least.
Since you like Ibn Ishaq, here's how he actually describes the event:
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