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Thanks for this Brent. It looks as if they Bahai teaching is that
Moses Jesus Muhammad the Bab and Baha'u'llah are all Prophets, all
Messengers, and all Manifestations: these are different names for the
same thing, or names for different aspects of their mission.
>
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>>
The Qur'an is very emphatic at times about the equality of
all the prophets with statements like "we make no distinction between any o=
f
them", yet it also says "we have exalted some above others." The latter
phrase has been used for centuries to claim that Muhamm
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One of the Baha'is wrote:
"...both Prophethood& Messengership are sealed by Prophet Muhammad.And Bab and
Baha'u'llah are Manifestations of God; that is quite different from those previous
stations."
Shoghi Effendi states that Baha'u'llah is referred to in the Qur
e population of the earth has
> been endowed with the powers and capacities equal to the task.
>
> http://www.geocities.jp/oneworld_international/library/wc/ocf_e2.htm
>
> http://www.onecommonfaith.net/
>
>
>
> http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/arabic/vol2/inba26/26iba339.gif
>
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> 1- I am very glad that you are not furious ,like Susan, to push me to the
> Qom[Iran] schools.
What I'm angry about Shahram, is not such much the questions you raise
but the fact you are masquerading as a Baha'i, when it is clear to
everyone here that no matter how
gt; Thanks/Rohani
>
> --- On Sat, 7/10/10, Sen & Sonja wrote:
>
> From: Sen & Sonja
> Subject: Seal of the Prophets
> To: "shahram rohani" , "Baha'i Studies"
>
> Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 7:40 PM
>
> On 1 Jul 2010 at 12:58, sh
and Bahaullah are manifestations of God;that is quite different from those
previous stations.
Thanks/Rohani
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, Sen & Sonja wrote:
From: Sen & Sonja
Subject: Seal of the Prophets
To: "shahram rohani" , "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Saturday, Jul
messengers, that that chapter in history is sealed so there will
be no more prophets and messengers. But that does not seem to be what
Baha'u'llah says in the Iqan: he says Muhammad is the seal of the
prophets (and in the ishraqat, of the Messengers) but not that
Muhammad is the last
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Op 08/07/10, shahram rohani schreef:> .We should accept Bab as a separate identity from Qaim.Op 08/07/10, shahram rohani schreef:> We should accept Bab as a separate identity from Qaim.Perhaps it would be good to review what Baha'u'llah says in the Iqan about the mea
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dear mr.Khazeh ,
Thanks for yr e-mail.It shows that it is necessary that you hv another
review of yr texts! I personally believe that investigation is always
interesting.
1- I am very glad that you are not furious ,like Susan, to push me to the
Qom[Iran] schools.
2-
,Rohani
--- On Sat, 7/3/10, Khazeh wrote:
From: Khazeh
Subject: RE: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Cc: shahramroh...@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, July 3, 2010, 2:08 PM
Message
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fatabayyanoo
wala taqool
tach your article in pdf for us?? thanks.
De: Khazeh
Para: Baha'i Studies
CC: shahramroh...@yahoo.com
Enviado: sáb, julio 3, 2010 1:08:11 PM
Asunto: RE: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
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fatabayyanoo wala taqooloo liman alqa ilaykumu alssalama l
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fatabayyanoo wala taqooloo liman alqa ilaykumu alssalama lasta mu/minan
investigate; and do not say to one who gives you a greeting of peace "You are
not a believer,"
sura 4:94
it is vital that we investigate ** fatabayyanoo**, especially and particularly
in the
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You are going to have to talk to your techies at Yahoo to get this question
answered, David.
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 3:24 AM, David Regal wrote:
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>
> I just realized I sent a message about my spam problem entitled Spam,
> probably the worst
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
> dear Susan,
> Although I see that some persons here are full of prejudice,and do not like
> to hv scientific discussions - and for this reason I do not like to continue
> this debate more -;yet I lik to give >some points that may be useful for
> people:
> -In the fi
Amir-Arjomand, etc.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-Original Message-
From: shahram rohani
Sender: Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 01:52:27
To: Baha'i Studies
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies"
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some more clarifications
The Bah
d her messages and the quotes.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-Original Message-
From: shahram rohani
Sender: Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 02:28:00
To: Baha'i Studies
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies"
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
Th
valuable co-op.
Kind Regards,
Rohani
--- On Fri, 7/2/10, A R M MC GLINN wrote:
From: A R M MC GLINN
Subject: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 4:10 PM
The Baha'i Studies ListservI have no comment to make, bu
Seyed Ali
Muhammad Shirazi(Bab) as the Shiite 12th Imam,then I will provide more than 50
correct traditions[ahadith],that Muhammad b.Hasan al-Askari was the 12th
Imam,from both Shia and Sunni sources.
thanks/Rohani
--- On Fri, 7/2/10, Susan Maneck wrote:
From: Susan Maneck
Subject: Re: S
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I just realized I sent a message about my spam problem entitled Spam, probably
the worst title if I wanted a response! Here is the message again:
The Yahoo account I'm using is sending a lot of posts from here to the spam
folder. Is there any way to change my setti
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
> Are you claiming that Bab,and others who have affirmed his living,and
> relations with >him,were simply liars?
As has already been shown, the Bab considered Himself to be the 12th Imam.
>I see that you have no reason in yr words.I do not like to continue this topic
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-Original Message-
From: shahram rohani
Sender: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:56:00
To: Baha'i Studies
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies"
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
The Baha'i Studies
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I have no comment to make, but there is a letter from Abdu'l-Baha to Jenaabi-Faadel-e Shiraazi, which says in part:"You had asked about the twelfth Imam. Know thou that this perception did not originally exist in the physical world. The twelfth Imam existed in the Unseen
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--- On Fri, 7/2/10, iskandar@gmail.com wrote:
From: iskandar@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 3:24 PM
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dear Hai,
If
from my BlackBerry®
-Original Message-
From: shahram rohani
Sender: Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 12:15:14
To: Baha'i Studies
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies"
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
We can accept Bab as manifestat
n Maneck wrote:
From: Susan Maneck
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 4:47 PM
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
> I have seen in the works of Bab,that he seriously and deeply believed in the
> existance
e of
the Imam or the gate thereof. The condemnation of God be also upon whosoever
imputes to me the charge of having denied the unity of God, of having
repudiated the prophethood of Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets, of having
rejected the truth of any of the messengers of old, or of having refus
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
SHAHRAAM ROHAANI had written:
> I have seen in the works of Bab,that he seriously and deeply believed
> in the existance of 12th Imam.Otherwise it would have been nonsense
> to call himself as "Bab" in the first stage.
And Dr SUSAN MANECK had replied:
Dear Shahra
;>>>>>
>>>>>>Book 32, Number 4071:
>>>>>>Narrated Qurrah ibn Iyas al-Muzani:
>>>>>>>I came to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) with a company of
>>>>>>>Muzaynah and we swore allegiance to him. The but
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
> I have seen in the works of Bab,that he seriously and deeply believed in the
> existance of 12th Imam.Otherwise it would have been nonsense to call himself
> as "Bab" in the first stage.
Dear Shahram,
The Bab only gradually revealed His own station. He explains th
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-Original Message-
From: shahram rohani
Sender: Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 12:20:22
To: Baha'i Studies
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies"
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
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think there should be
many more references.
Yours,
Rohani
--- On Wed, 6/30/10, Sen & Sonja wrote:
From: Sen & Sonja
Subject: Seal of the Prophets
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 5:57 PM
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 28 Jun 2010 at 7:36,
not accept
theexistence of these 2 cities.But I remember,that I have seen in a text that
Master believed in existing of these 2 cities.I will try to find it.
Yours,
Rohani
--- On Tue, 6/29/10, Iskandar Hai, M.D. wrote:
From: Iskandar Hai, M.D.
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets/ some clarifications
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 28 Jun 2010 at 7:36, haj...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The Baha'i writings are very clear that Muhammad sealed both
> Prophethood and Messengership.
Could you give a source for this Hajmog??
Sen
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-Original Message-
From: bounce-511645-27...@list.jccc.edu
[mailto:bounce-511645-27...@list.jccc.edu] On Behalf Of Don Calkins
Sent: 29 June 2010 01:19
To: Baha'i Studies
Subject: Re: : The Seal of the Prophets interesting (I believe two new
finds)
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Yes, but note Mani who also claimed to be the Seal of the Prophets.
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On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Stephen Gray wrote:
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam
&g
> existing of Mahdi several times;first of them was in front of Jenab
> Mulla Hussein.
> Furthermore, I have read 5-6 books,but have not seen any literature
> claiming that the Shiite believe that Mahdi is in Samara well.
> Thanks,
> Rohani
>
> --- On Mon, 6/28/10, Stephen
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
dear Hajir,
We are talking about the eternal spiritual truth,and not the physical/material
things.Hum?
Yours/Rohani
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, hajmog wrote:
From: hajmog
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Monday, June 28
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I agree with this view.
Thanks/Rohani
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Susan Maneck wrote:
From: Susan Maneck
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 1:13 PM
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Shaykhi was tr
t seen any literature claiming
that the Shiite believe that Mahdi is in Samara well.
Thanks,
Rohani
--- On Mon, 6/28/10, Stephen Gray wrote:
From: Stephen Gray
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Date: Monday, June 28, 2010, 12:00 PM
The Baha'i Studies Li
s. This obviously means that Seal of the
> Prophets can't mean last prophet for them.
All those figures you name were before the birth of Muhammad (saaws).
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I just wanted to suggest alternative ways to read the quote from Imam
Jaffar as-Sadiq along with some other passages:
2010/6/28 Khazeh :
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
> Sura 18:109 YUSUFALI: Say: "If the ocean were ink (wherewith to write out)
> the words of my Lord, s
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>
>and then there is a mos precious find which demonstrates that in a
>very very early text the U.SUUL E KAAFI SUCCESSIVE Prophets are
>indicated and referenced in a very subtle but cogent and lucid manner
>
What is the presumed date for this text?
Don C
--
- -
tions with the Angel Gabriel, and the Qur'an also merits the
Virgin Mary with having talked to Angels.
From: Susan Maneck
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Mon, June 28, 2010 6:13:55 PM
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
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I don&
of Seal of the
Prophets.
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Stephen Gray wrote:
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam
> Some Muslims list Zoroaster, Buddha, Socrates, Laozi, Mani, Confucius,
> Krishna, and Rama as prophets. This
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam
Some Muslims list Zoroaster, Buddha, Socrates, Laozi, Mani, Confucius, Krishna,
and Rama as prophets. This obviously means that Seal of the Prophets can't mean
last prophet for them. As Mani wasn't t
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
f urther developments of the "Seal of the Prophets"
Dr Iskandar Hai MD wrote:
iskandar@gmail.com
For me as a Baha'i, the idea that at some point in time (e.g., in 632) God
decided to go into permanent retirement and leave humanit
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> Isn't mysticism the bind between God and individuals, not religion?
>
I'm not sure the two are separable but to call religion the 'bind' is
a bit of play on words. The word religio in Latin means 'to bind.'
__
You are s
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> Can a seal mean God's stamp of approval rather than finality?
> Can a seal mean authenticity rahter than finality?
> Can a seal mean finality until the seal is broken?
> Did you know the term "Seal of the Prophets" predate Muhammad?
of last is based on seal and last being synonyms in
> Arabic.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_of_the_Koran
>
> The passage in Sura 33 that has usually been translated as "seal of the
> prophets" means, according to Luxenberg, "witness"
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Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
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> How is this nonsense? Religion is a manmade community. All Christians
> should have accepted Muhammad and all Jews Jesus. The true Jewish community
> is Christianity, the true Chr
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> How is this nonsense? Religion is a manmade community. All Christians
> should have accepted Muhammad and all Jews Jesus. The true Jewish community
> is Christianity, the true Christian community is Islam, etc.
There is no essential Judaism, Christianity or Islam, bu
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I cannot put on my 6th
> grade clothes now because they don't fit me anymore.
That doesn't make your clothes untrue.
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>> Shaykhi was true in it's own day,
but became false when the Bab appeared. Christianity was true in it's day,
but became false when Muhammad appeared. Judaism was true in it's day, but
became false when Jesus Christ appeared.
Nonsense. The religion itself doesn't sudd
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>>. Alternatively we could see it has the Dpivine Nature of
the Manifestation communicating with His human nature.<<
I really think the religion does that. I think this is so because God changes
things over time because we are changing. I cannot put on my 6th grade cl
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Shaykhi was true in it's own day,
> but became false when the Bab appeared. Christianity was true in it's day,
> but became false when Muhammad appeared. Judaism was true in it's day, but
> became false when Jesus Christ appeared.
Nonsense. The religion itself doesn't
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> Would you say Bahais accept the Shaykhi view rather than the Shiah view?
And what do you think the Shaykhi view is?
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d you know the term "Seal of the Prophets" predate Muhammad? Montanus and
Mani both used it.
Is the term Syriac or Aramaic rather than Arabic in origin?
What about people who can communicate with angels like Fatima, Emmanuel
Swedenborg, Joseph Smith, etc? Shia Islam recognizes: rasul, n
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
>> Then, there are no definitive interpretations? <<
Because something was true in a previous day does not mean God doesnt change
what is True His Hands cannot be tied. Shaykhi was true in it's own day, but
became false when the Bab appeared. Christianity was true i
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Right, plus there are also other aspects of Shaykhism which the Bab and
Baha'u'llah rejected, such as the existence of hurqalya, Jabulqa and
Jabulsa, and the notion of a Fourth Support.
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:53 AM, hajmog wrote:
> The Baha'i Studies Listserv
> Hi
on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>From: "haj...@yahoo.com"
>Sender:
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 07:36:13 -0700
>To: Baha'i Studies
>ReplyTo: "Baha'i Studies"
>Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
>
>
&g
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And, all the Babis did not accept Bahaullah, so their view is partly incorrect.
And those that reject the Universal House of Justice are also partly incorrect.
Truth is One.
Sent by iPhone
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Hi, I think I can answer that myself. The Shaykhis didn't all accept the Bab
either, so their view is also partly incorrect.
Sent by iPhone
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aha'is, as Sunnis, believe that the
Promised Mahdi would be born, just as The Bab was born.
Best regards,
Iskandar
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
From: "haj...@yahoo.com"
Sender:
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 07:36:13 -0700
To: Baha'i Studies
ReplyTo: "Ba
y®
-Original Message-
From: "haj...@yahoo.com"
Sender: Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 07:36:13
To: Baha'i Studies
Reply-To: "Baha'i Studies"
Subject: Re: Seal of the Prophets
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Stephen,
The Baha'i writings are very clear that Mu
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The Bible does have the prophecy of the Seven Seals. Even if somethings is
sealed, there is always the
possiblity of someone breaking the seal.
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Stephen,
The Baha'i writings are very clear that Muhammad sealed both Prophethood and
Mes
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Stephen,
The Baha'i writings are very clear that Muhammad sealed both Prophethood and
Messengership. Otherwise, the Cycle of Prophecy would not have ended, and the
Cycle of Fulfillment would not have started. Furthermore, Baha'is accept the
Shi'i interpretation of
ally been translated as "seal of
the prophets" means, according to Luxenberg, "witness". By this reading,
Muhammad is not the last of the prophets, but only a witness to those prophets
who came before him.
This means that by seal, he was a prophet to pagans, who unless he as
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
-
The Baha'is and the Seal of the Prophets
Dr Moojan Momen
Since the founding of the Baha'i Faith 150 years ago, Muslims have rejected
it, its founder and its teachings. One of the main reasons that Muslims give
On 5/13/06, Tim Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Gilberto,
>And he also suggests that Muhammad really was the end of a certain
religious cycle and that the Bab and Bahaullah were something different
than prophets or
messengers.<
I agree. I think Muhammad truly was the last of the nabi
Hi Gilberto, >And he also suggests that Muhammad really was the end of a certain religious cycle and that the Bab and Bahaullah were something different than prophets or messengers.< I agree. I think Muhammad truly was the last of the nabi and rasul. This is a new age. Baha'u'lla
y this
nation with its good people (or its hypocrites - the sub-narrator,
Ibrahim is in doubt). God will come to them and say, 'I am your Lord.'
They will (deny Him and) say, 'We will stay here till our Lord comes,
for when our Lord comes, we will recognize Him.' So God will
G: But if you are willing to search for support for what you are trying to say, I would be willing to do the same...Where would you like to start?
JS: Gilberto, I know you are better read than I am and your intellect is keener than mine is. I'll try my best to present the Baha'i stance on Fina
Sorry for not responding sooner to your detailed outline. I think it
was very well done and was very thorough. That's actually part of what
makes it off-putting because going through the various points could
potentially involve alot of searching. But if you are willing to
search for support for wha
Hi All,
I am not worthy of writing this message because of my materialistic and shameful tendencies. But I feel I've been inspired (only God Wills and only God Knows), to revisit the topic of Finality. May whispers of 'the Most Great Name', which only originate from on High, shatter the walls t
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