On Wed, 11 May 2005 04:47:48 -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote
> How much was right about it before GW2? Is the "average" Iraqi
> better off or worse off now than then? Or, for another measure, is
> the number of Iraqi people who are better off without SH in charge
> greater than the number who w
On May 11, 2005, at 7:56 AM, Nick Arnett wrote:
Our leaders may have had noble intentions, but there's more to bringing
freedom and peace than knowing how to destroy.
Noble intentions are nullified by arrogance. Until we start seeing some
genuine humility -- starting from the top down -- we won't
At 07:56 AM 5/11/2005 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
>Does anybody have a measure by which life is better in Iraq today than it
was
>before we invaded?
Not only does anybody have such a measure, but I can state the precise
person who does.
You do.
JDG
_
On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:10:06 -0400, JDG wrote
> At 07:56 AM 5/11/2005 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
> >Does anybody have a measure by which life is better in Iraq today than it
> was
> >before we invaded?
>
> Not only does anybody have such a measure, but I can state the
> precise person who does.
At 05:16 PM 5/11/2005 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
>Enlighten me, please.
>
>I've been thinking about this one a fair bit today.
>
>If it's not clear, I did mean quantitative measures, not qualitative things
>like "Saddam is under arrest."
I'm quite confident that you can handle this one on your own
On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:25:08 -0400, JDG wrote
> I'm quite confident that you can handle this one on your own.
Oh, please.
I can't think of what I've said that is a measurement of this. I wasn't
asking to argue about it or play games about it -- I really would like to know
if there is somethin
At 07:54 PM 5/11/2005 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
>> I'm quite confident that you can handle this one on your own.
>
>Oh, please.
>
>I can't think of what I've said that is a measurement of this. I wasn't
>asking to argue about it or play games about it -- I really would like to
know
>if there is
On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:30:47 -0400, JDG wrote
> You misunderstand. I'm not referring to anything you've said
> before. If I were, I could probably cite the disdain you expressed
> for "provable likelihood of success" in an earlier post this week,
I didn't intend disdain. A provable likeli
- Original Message -
From: "JDG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n: Re: more neocons)
> At 07:54 PM 5/11/2005 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
> >> I'
On 5/12/05, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "JDG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n:
- Original Message -
From: "Gary Denton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n: Re: more neocons)
>> The interpretation of such a poll will be dependant on
On Thu, 12 May 2005 09:42:47 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
> The interpretation of such a poll will be dependant on where it is
> taken, of course, but, at the very least, the changes in these
> numbers over time should reflect changes in attitude. Would you and
> Nick consider this at least some m
On Thu, 12 May 2005 10:07:09 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
> Right, and I have a very recent one in my hip pocket, so to speak.
> I just wanted to see if folks would assign it a value before seeing
> the results. :-)
I spoke too soon, apparently. Not the first time.
Here's the most hopeful figure
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n: Re: more neocons)
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 09:42:47 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
>
BAGHDAD - The Iraqi people are suffering from a desperate lack of jobs,
housing, health care and electricity, according to a survey by Iraqi
authorities and the United Nations released on Thursday.
Planning Minister Barham Saleh, during a ceremony in Baghdad, blamed the
dire living condition
On May 12, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Gary Denton wrote:
BAGHDAD - The Iraqi people are suffering from a desperate lack of
jobs,
housing, health care and electricity, according to a survey by Iraqi
authorities and the United Nations released on Thursday.
Wow. So Iraq really IS like the US now! Woot! Miss
More seriously...
On May 12, 2005, at 11:26 AM, Gary Denton wrote:
"If you compare this to the situation in the 1980s, you will see a
major
deterioration of the situation," said the newly-appointed minister,
pointing
out that 75 percent of households had clean water two decades ago.
http://www.m
On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:57:28 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
> why would you suggest that attacks by some people
> indicate that most people are worse off?
I didn't suggest that. I suggested that those people, as well as the hundreds
of thousands who demonstrated against our occupation on April 9th,
On Thu, 12 May 2005 13:26:19 -0500, Gary Denton wrote
> "If you compare this to the situation in the 1980s, you will see a
> major deterioration of the situation," said the newly-appointed
> minister, pointing out that 75 percent of households had clean water
> two decades ago.
And to my sur
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n: Re: more neocons)
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:57:28 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
>
At 09:09 PM 5/11/2005 -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
>> Instead, I am just expressing my confidence that if you have even a modicum
>> of honesty you can come up with something that is measurably better
>> in Iraq today than it was under Saddam Hussein. After all, Saddam
>> Hussein's
>> regime was o
On Thu, 12 May 2005 21:55:07 -0400, JDG wrote
> Well, let me help you out:
Thank you. I was asking *because* I was having a hard time with it. More
below.
> -number of political prisoners
Definitely.
> -number of people subjected to torture (yes, even *with* Abu Ghraib)
Indeed.
> -number
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n: Re: more neocons)
> Hmmm. I guess. I don't know what Saddam's track re
Dan M. wrote:
> Right, and I have a very recent one in my hip pocket, so to speak.
> I just wanted to see if folks would assign it a value before seeing
> the results. :-)
I suspect as much when I read your original message and I have to
wonder, isn't withholding such evidence - indeed wit
- Original Message -
From: "JDG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Is Iraq better off? (was Re: Br!n: Re: more neocons)
> Dan M. wrote:
> > Right, and I have a very recent one in my h
On May 12, 2005, at 7:12 PM, JDG wrote:
I have to
wonder, isn't withholding such evidence - indeed withholding that you
have
a priori knowledge of this evidence - in those circumstances the
equivalent
of baiting?
Considering the source, this question's pretty damn funny.
--
Warren Ockrassa, Publi
On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:01:20 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
> Here's one example. Karbala and is buried there. For Shiites, his
> tomb is the holiest site outside of Mecca and Medina, Among other
> things, Hussein prohibited the pilgrimages to Karbala, on the
> anniversary of Husayn's (the Prophet's
On 5/13/05, Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:01:20 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
>
> > Here's one example. Karbala and is buried there. For Shiites, his
> > tomb is the holiest site outside of Mecca and Medina, Among other
> > things, Hussein prohibited the pilgrimages to
At 10:43 PM 5/12/2005 -0500, Dan M. wrote:
>> Then again, you recently offered to compare economic growth
>> during the Great Depression to that of World War II.. so I'm not sure
>> what you are thinking here.
>
>I'm thinking data are. We should fit theory to data, not pidgen hole data
>into w
Republican libertarian Ron Paul answered the question is Iraq better off on
the floor of Congress.
Whenever the administration is challenged regarding the success of the Iraq
war, or regarding the false information used to justify the war, the retort
is: "Aren't the people of Iraq better off?"
At 12:13 PM Friday 5/13/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
Republican libertarian Ron Paul answered the question is Iraq better off on
the floor of Congress.
Does it fit?
They Might Have To Remove Some Of The Representatives' Desks Maru
-- Ronn! :)
___
http://www
On May 13, 2005, at 10:47 AM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
At 12:13 PM Friday 5/13/2005, Gary Denton wrote:
Republican libertarian Ron Paul answered the question is Iraq better
off on
the floor of Congress.
Does it fit?
An Iraqi's place is in the house.
Dave
On Fri, 13 May 2005 12:13:35 -0500, Gary Denton wrote
> we were not welcomed by cheering Iraqi crowds as we were
> told;
Not quite. Wes (who was with the very first troops into Baghdad and later,
Tikrit) told me that in Baghdad they were greeted with cheers from small
groups... at first. Ho
At 07:34 PM 5/12/2005 -0700,Nick Arnett wrote:
>> Again, Nick, after all, Saddam Hussein's regime was one of the 5
>> worst regimes on Earth.
>
>Whose ranking?
I said one of the top 5, because I think that it would be difficult to
place Saddam Hussein's Iraq lower than 5 among the worst regimes o
On 5/15/05, JDG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 07:34 PM 5/12/2005 -0700,Nick Arnett wrote:
> >> Again, Nick, after all, Saddam Hussein's regime was one of the 5
> >> worst regimes on Earth.
> >
> >Whose ranking?
>
> I said one of the top 5, because I think that it would be difficult to
> place
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