Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-04 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
MK: I don't understand why YOU wouldn't double at 99%? Can you explain this? If the oppenent will still take at 100% then why risk losing 2 points 1% of the time? I thought I answered your question about win rates previously. A bot that always doubles, I'd expect to lose 0.3 ppg. It's hard

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-03 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 10:01:17 PM To: Ian Shaw ; GnuBg Bug Subject: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 4/2/2024 5:13 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: > What would be your proposed structure for training a > cubeful bot? What gains and obstacles do you fores

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-03 Thread MK
On 4/2/2024 7:08 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: A cube strategy against a bot that never passes: Not never but we loosely say that since it takes at GWC > 0, i.e. even at 0.0001% only double when (a) you are 100% to win I don't understand why you wouldn't double at 99%? Can you explain this? (b)

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-03 Thread MK
ms, people talk about doing "XG rollouts on Amazon's cloud servers", etc. Doing more biased rollouts is plain stupid/illogical. Any such efforts would be put to better use in training a new bot instead. The question is who would volunteer to do it. People like the Alpha-Zero team, etc

Re: question

2024-04-03 Thread Murat K
On 4/2/2024 5:39 PM, Max S wrote: HI Am I able to import a file of a position, match score etc and you would return the XG analysis to me? If I understand correctly that you want to post here a GnuBG ID, (i.e. position + match ID), and want someone to post the XG analysis, I will do it for you

Re: question

2024-04-03 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
similar. Does this answer your question? Regards, Ian Shaw From: bug-gnubg-bounces+ian.shaw=riverauto.co...@gnu.org on behalf of Max S Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2024 2:39:07 AM To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: question HI Am I able to import a file

Re: question

2024-04-03 Thread Francesco Ariis
Hello Max, Il 02 aprile 2024 alle 19:39 Max S ha scritto: > HI > Am I able to import a file of a position, match score etc and you would > return the XG analysis to me? what do you mean with “XG analysis”? —F

question

2024-04-02 Thread Max S
HI Am I able to import a file of a position, match score etc and you would return the XG analysis to me?

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-02 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/31/2024 4:18 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: > If the mutant strategy is always to take, then gnubg GAINS when > Mutant > takes a D/P because that increases the points GnuBg wins. Yes, of course, but only and only if the G

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-02 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
, 2024 11:43:40 AM To: Ian Shaw ; GnuBg Bug Subject: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/31/2024 3:53 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: > I'm glad we agree on the basic 25% take point. Do you also agree on > the the theoretical 20% take point for perfect cube effi

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-02 Thread MK
see your problem..? MK *From:* MK *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2024 2:28:09 AM *To:* Ian Shaw ; GnuBg Bug *Subject:* Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/19/2024

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-04-02 Thread MK
can't, then I really don't care about my credibility with people who can't understand my arguments, let alone rise up to defeat my arguments. MK *From:* MK *Sent:* Friday, March 29, 2024 4:34:39 AM

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-31 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
would never pass. From: MK Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 2:28:09 AM To: Ian Shaw ; GnuBg Bug Subject: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/19/2024 3:54 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: > MK "Those numbers are based on how the bot wo

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-31 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
for money.) Regards, Ian Shaw From: MK Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 4:34:39 AM To: Ian Shaw ; GnuBg Bug Subject: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/19/2024 7:44 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: > I don’t "divinely believe" in the

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-28 Thread MK
On 3/19/2024 7:44 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: I don’t "divinely believe" in the current cube theory. I understand the maths behind it. If you have found errors in the maths, then I would be glad to re-evaluate. Let's find out where you disagree by starting from the beginning. What is your analysis

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-28 Thread MK
On 3/19/2024 7:37 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: MK: This is why I am doing my various experiments. One of which that I had previously mentioned in this very thread involves a "mutant cubestrategy" of doubling at GWC > 50% and taking at GWC > 0%. In that experiment of 20,000 money games, the mutant won

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-28 Thread MK
On 3/19/2024 3:54 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: MK "Those numbers are based on how the bot would play against itself. If you accept the bot's decisions as best/perfect and if you try to play just like bot, assuming that your opponent will also try to play just like the bot, of course you

RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-19 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
MK: Even though I think most of you won't absorb what I wrote above, because you all "divinely believe" in the current "cube skill theory", I won't consider it a total waste of my time even if it sows a seed of doubt in just one mind. I don’t "divinely believe" in the current cube theory. I

RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-19 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
MK: This is why I am doing my various experiments. One of which that I had previously mentioned in this very thread involves a "mutant cube strategy" of doubling at GWC > 50% and taking at GWC > 0%. In that experiment of 20,000 money games, the mutant won 40.80% of total points against GnuBG

RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-19 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
MK "Those numbers are based on how the bot would play against itself. If you accept the bot's decisions as best/perfect and if you try to play just like bot, assuming that your opponent will also try to play just like the bot, of course you wouldn't/shouldn't double." Agreed. Against a worse

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-18 Thread Murat K
On 3/16/2024 6:15 PM, Ian Shaw via wrote: As this thread became more about the starting position than the original subject, I will branch out a separate thread for that and only reply to the cube issue in this one. Knowing the absolute equity is only useful for cube actions, and since the

Fwd: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-16 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
rgb threads. They descended into rudeness and I lost interest. For some reason, your last 2 messages got caught in my spam filter, hence the late reply. Regards, Ian -Original Message- From: MK Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 9:35 PM To: Ian Shaw ; bug-gnubg@gnu.org Cc: Philippe Michel

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-14 Thread MK
Cat got your tongues? Meow... ;) MK

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-06 Thread MK
On 3/4/2024 5:26 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: Since at least you care to continue this discussion, I will invest more of my time and effort mainly for the sake of improving GnuBG. Sorry, MK, I didn't read back over the old threads, It was in my a previous post in this current thread here but it's no

RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-04 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
;; bug-gnubg@gnu.org<mailto:bug-gnubg@gnu.org> Cc: Philippe Michel mailto:philippe.mich...@free.fr>> Subject: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/1/2024 6:02 PM, Ian Shaw wrote: > "Is making the bot auto-play the > same as do

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-03 Thread MK
On 3/3/2024 8:16 PM, MK wrote: The next day after that, I checked it in Snowie and I posted a comprehensive recap about the subject. See: Sorry I forgot to give the link. Here it is: https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.backgammon/c/rFZyUcg8IPQ/m/gxuWiERmCAAJ MK

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-03 Thread MK
On 3/1/2024 6:02 PM, Ian Shaw wrote: "Is making the bot auto-play the same as doing rollouts?" It sounds like you are asking what a rollout is? I wasn't. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnubg/manual/html_node/Introduction-to-rollouts.html I had read it many a times before.

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-01 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
32: 18/13 From: MK Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 10:46:29 PM To: Ian Shaw ; bug-gnubg@gnu.org Cc: Philippe Michel Subject: Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership On 3/1/2024 6:22 AM, Ian Shaw wrote: > 27000 trials at 0-ply and 1-ply. 135000 trials at 2-ply. >

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-01 Thread MK
ary 8, 2024 11:39 AM *To:* playbg-...@yahoo.com; bug-gnubg@gnu.org *Cc:* Philippe Michel *Subject:* RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership It just so happens that I rolled out the opening position a few days ago for another reason. This was at 7-away 7-away rather th

RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-03-01 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
=riverauto.co...@gnu.org On Behalf Of Ian Shaw via Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon. Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 11:39 AM To: playbg-...@yahoo.com; bug-gnubg@gnu.org Cc: Philippe Michel Subject: RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-02-11 Thread MK
On 2/11/2024 6:01 AM, EDWARD GOLDBERG wrote: Can I be removed from this email list please? https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/bug-gnubg/

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-02-11 Thread EDWARD GOLDBERG
Can I be removed from this email list please? > On Feb 10, 2024, at 9:59 PM, MK wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > Thanks for the additional info. Unfortunately it didn't help > me understand anything better or answer my own question. I'm > still trying and hope that you or

Re: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-02-10 Thread MK
Hi Ian, Thanks for the additional info. Unfortunately it didn't help me understand anything better or answer my own question. I'm still trying and hope that you or others will continue this subject to help me with it, which will benefit all in the end. For the cubeless equity of the opening

RE: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-02-08 Thread Bug reports for and general discussion about GNU Backgammon.
. Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] Cheers, Ian -Original Message- From: bug-gnubg-bounces+ian.shaw=riverauto.co...@gnu.org On Behalf Of MK Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:23 AM To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership I'm

Interesting question/experiment about value of cube ownership

2024-02-07 Thread MK
I'm chugging along with my mutant cube skill experiments as I can spare time, saving all games, which I will share on my web site, when I'm done, along with my scripts. While doing the double at > 50% experiment, I remembered an old question I had asked in RGB about a year ago: W

RE: No bugs, just a question

2022-07-06 Thread Ian Shaw
Hi Tim, What an awesome explanation. Thanks a lot. -- Ian -Original Message- From: Bug-gnubg On Behalf Of Timothy Y. Chow Sent: 06 July 2022 14:59 To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: Re: No bugs, just a question There is a subtle point about luck that is not well understood even

Re: No bugs, just a question

2022-07-06 Thread Timothy Y. Chow
There is a subtle point about luck that is not well understood even by some professional mathematicians. In a series of games (or matches, but for simplicity let me focus on games), one must distinguish between 1. counting the number of games in which I was luckier, and 2. determining who

Re: No bugs, just a question

2022-07-01 Thread Joseph Heled
e. >>> It’s often me! >>> >>> >>> >>> Perhaps you’re sample size is not large enough. That’s all I can suggest. >>> >>> >>> >>> (I’m not sure what happens if you play on any setting lower than ‘expert’). >>>

Re: No bugs, just a question

2022-07-01 Thread Tom Moulton
s not large enough. That’s all I can suggest. >> >> >> >> (I’m not sure what happens if you play on any setting lower than ‘expert’). >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Ian Shaw >> >> >> >> From: Bug-gnubg On >>

Re: No bugs, just a question

2022-07-01 Thread Paul Thornett
ns if you play on any setting lower than ‘expert’). > > > > Best regards, > > Ian Shaw > > > > From: Bug-gnubg On > Behalf Of hereodt Z > Sent: 25 June 2022 20:04 > To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org > Subject: No bugs, just a question > > > > Dear all who created

Fwd: No bugs, just a question

2022-07-01 Thread hereodt Z
at happens and the computer smashed me to pieces ha ha! Ian, thank you for trying to answer my question I just noticed that on a pretty large batch of matches, the winner is the less lucky player in, let's say, 2 out of 1000, tops. And that seems not normal. I realize that I asked this question without

RE: No bugs, just a question

2022-06-27 Thread Ian Shaw
setting lower than ‘expert’). Best regards, Ian Shaw From: Bug-gnubg On Behalf Of hereodt Z Sent: 25 June 2022 20:04 To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: No bugs, just a question Dear all who created GNUBg, Thank you for your wonderful, GREAT software. It provided me with countless hours of fun

No bugs, just a question

2022-06-25 Thread hereodt Z
Dear all who created GNUBg, Thank you for your wonderful, GREAT software. It provided me with countless hours of fun and relaxation.Maybe a little TOO much, but that's my problem ;). How come the winner, be it me or the computer, is always the luckiest player? I thought backgammon was a

Re: SQL question

2021-01-14 Thread Christian Anthon
I believe something like this should work https://www.sqlservertutorial.net/sql-server-basics/sql-server-update-join/ Using an inner join. Let me know if you need help. C On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 at 22.52, Philippe Michel wrote: > A few weeks ago, someone reported two bugs (#59208 and #59209) in

SQL question

2021-01-14 Thread Philippe Michel
A few weeks ago, someone reported two bugs (#59208 and #59209) in the way match results are stored in the database. I have committed a fix when for new entries, but existing ones have to be updated directly in the database. The commands below should work for sqlite3 but I think it should be

Re: Question regarding python scripting

2019-12-29 Thread Philippe Michel
On Wed, Dec 25, 2019 at 10:20:42PM +, Cihan Göksu wrote: > Is there a way to communicate between the interactive pyshell (by typing > ">") and an external python script? For example, how can I send commands > to py Interactive shells via another python script? Is it possible to > import

Question regarding python scripting

2019-12-25 Thread Cihan Göksu
Dear GNUbg, First, I would like to greatly thank you for this fantastic software and express a big big applause! Here, I'm trying to check out python scripting and a little rookie :-) Is there a way to communicate between the interactive pyshell (by typing ">") and an external python script?

Re: [Bug-gnubg] question about GNU Backgammon

2019-08-22 Thread Ian Shaw
-topmail.de Sent: 18 August 2019 18:37 To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: [Bug-gnubg] question about GNU Backgammon Hello GNU team, I have a question about how to change the settings in GNU Backgammon: Is it possible to always and automatically get a hint after one's own dice have been rolled? Best

[Bug-gnubg] question about GNU Backgammon

2019-08-18 Thread tilidin
Hello GNU team,     I have a question about how to change the settings in GNU Backgammon: Is it possible to always and automatically get a hint after one's own dice have been rolled?     Best regards,   Robert ___ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Race position theoretical question?

2019-01-30 Thread Øystein Schønning-Johansen
Here is a theoretical question for all of you: > > > > Can a race (aka. non-contact) position, be possible to lose backgammon > with > > a good dash of unluck, and still be possible to win (with a good dash of > > luck). > > Something like this ? > > GNU Back

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Race position theoretical question?

2019-01-29 Thread Philippe Michel
On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 08:00:22PM +0100, Øystein Schønning-Johansen wrote: > Hi all! > > Here is a theoretical question for all of you: > > Can a race (aka. non-contact) position, be possible to lose backgammon with > a good dash of unluck, and still be possible to win

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Race position theoretical question?

2019-01-29 Thread Joseph Heled
eph On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 08:02, Øystein Schønning-Johansen wrote: > > Hi all! > > Here is a theoretical question for all of you: > > Can a race (aka. non-contact) position, be possible to lose backgammon with a > good dash of unluck, and still be possible to win (

[Bug-gnubg] Race position theoretical question?

2019-01-29 Thread Øystein Schønning-Johansen
Hi all! Here is a theoretical question for all of you: Can a race (aka. non-contact) position, be possible to lose backgammon with a good dash of unluck, and still be possible to win (with a good dash of luck). It is assumed that the player is really trying to get of the backgammon, and plays

Re: [Bug-gnubg] question: move validation

2016-07-31 Thread Philippe Michel
I'm wondering in which file of the project is move validation done, more particularly if a given move is valid given a specific dice roll. This is in eval.c. This is a part of the source I don't really understand but GenerateMoves() should be a adequate starting point. If you want to look at

[Bug-gnubg] question: move validation

2016-07-28 Thread grdnlndn
Hello there, I'm a student and I'm studying gnubg source code, I'm wondering in which file of the project is move validation done, more particularly if a given move is valid given a specific dice roll. Sorry for this question, I generally try to avoid disturbing mailing lists with non important

Re: [Bug-gnubg] I have a question regarding SAVE SETTINGS

2015-08-31 Thread Shawn K. Quinn
On Mon, 2015-08-31 at 22:22 +, Edward D. Collins wrote: > Greetings, > > > My gnu backgammon settings do appear to be saved during sessions. So > I don't really have a problem. However, I do have a question. The > help files talk about a SAVE SETTINGS option. The n

[Bug-gnubg] Question

2015-04-23 Thread Carlos Morales
Hi, I'm using gnubg again since a few days ago, after several years not being able to launch it. Michael Petch helped me to install it and now it works. I dont know if he is the one to answer my next question and I dont wanna bother him again. I would like to play against my son using 2

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Question

2015-04-23 Thread Thomas A. Moulton
, after several years not being able to launch it. Michael Petch helped me to install it and now it works. I dont know if he is the one to answer my next question and I dont wanna bother him again. I would like to play against my son using 2 computers. I saw that an external player can be set and I

Re: [Bug-gnubg] GNUbg 1.03.001 source release / Python3 / Question of minimum Python support

2014-08-17 Thread Philippe Michel
On Sat, 9 Aug 2014, Michael Petch wrote: At present we support Python back to about 2.3 (That I have tested). It may work on 2.2 but I haven't tried. Pyhon2.2 is currently our minimum version supported. My question is whether we wish to continue using 2.2 as the minimum going forward. I am

[Bug-gnubg] GNUbg 1.03.001 source release / Python3 / Question of minimum Python support

2014-08-09 Thread Michael Petch
back to about 2.3 (That I have tested). It may work on 2.2 but I haven't tried. Pyhon2.2 is currently our minimum version supported. My question is whether we wish to continue using 2.2 as the minimum going forward. I am wondering if we might consider something like Python 2.7 and higher. Python2.7

Re: [Bug-gnubg] gnu gammon question

2014-02-25 Thread Myshkin LeVine
Hi Nicholas, I've never heard any talk on the list about developing a card game, but It is definitely a possibility for other groups. A quick search of SourceForge turned up four Rummy projects, with one Windows project named Gin Rummy. Hope this helps.

Re: [Bug-gnubg] gnu gammon question

2014-02-25 Thread motiv4u
That link is not working. Open Source (Windows) http://ginrummy.sourceforge.net/ And NetRummy (two players LAN / Intranet / TCP/IP) http://sourceforge.net/projects/netrummy/ N. On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Myshkin LeVine mysh...@verizon.netwrote: Hi Nicholas, I've

Re: [Bug-gnubg] gnu gammon question

2014-02-25 Thread Russ Allbery
Nicholas Suplizio nicholassupli...@gmail.com writes: Thank you for your help. So far I don't think anything like what I'm looking for exists. I do quite a bit of programming but I've never taken on a project like developing a Gin Rummy evaluator before. The most valuable part of GNUBG to me

[Bug-gnubg] gnu gammon question

2014-02-23 Thread Nicholas Suplizio
Hi, I was wondering if the GNUBG crew ever considered writing an evaluator/SIM for Gin Rummy. Would something like this be a possibility? If it has already been done can you point me in the right direction? Please help, thanks. Nicholas ___

[Bug-gnubg] question

2013-09-07 Thread Pi Po
Will GNU run on a chrome book? ctt...@gmail.com ___ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg

[Bug-gnubg] Evaluation question

2013-06-19 Thread progress
I've found Gnu evaluates desperation situations very poorly. Specifically, if an opponent is rolling off and you are racing to get one piece off to avoid a gammon, Gnu mis-evaluates moves. From this position: GNU Backgammon Position ID: GreDA0DbbgcBAA Match ID :

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Evaluation question

2013-06-19 Thread Michael Petch
On 19/06/2013 5:31 PM, progr...@nwon.com wrote: I've found Gnu evaluates desperation situations very poorly. Specifically, if an opponent is rolling off and you are racing to get one piece off to avoid a gammon, Gnu mis-evaluates moves. My moves of 63:13/10, 13/7, 31:8/5 7/6 and 65 10/4 8/3

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Evaluation question

2013-06-19 Thread Michael Petch
On 19/06/2013 10:29 PM, Michael Petch wrote: The reason I ask these questions is that my copy of GNUBG (0.90-mingw 20121023) has an analysis shows that the only one GNUBG disagreed a bit with was the 63 and it didn't even rate as doubtful. It had about a 0.030 error. The rest of the moves the

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse - Market Window question?

2013-06-11 Thread Ian Shaw
The link to your screenshots do not work for me, I'm afraid. -- Ian (more below) i.e. it says my cube market window opens up at 50.286%... but I was around 55.7% to win the game at this point? yet it says my cube decision was very bad. Ian Shaw wrote If this were the last roll of the

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse - Market Window question?

2013-06-11 Thread Massimiliano Maini
On 9 June 2013 15:34, sebalotek waynejos...@gmail.com wrote: I've attached another example from my practice game today - If I'm reading the screenshot correctly my Take Point for the offered cube should be above 30.079. My Current win percentage = 31.0%. So why is it classified as 'Bad'

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse - Market Window question?

2013-06-09 Thread sebalotek
Hi Ian, Thanks for your reply and for your example. In fact my question was not so much to do with the 'position' of the game, but with how to understand the relevance of the 'Analyse - Market Window' function. i.e. it says my cube market window opens up at 50.286%... but I was around 55.7

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse - Market Window question?

2013-06-07 Thread Ian Shaw
Sent: 06 June 2013 19:05 To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: [Bug-gnubg] Analyse - Market Window question? Hallo all, I am sorry for the new n00b question. Please can anybody explain to me how the 'Analyse - Market Window' function works? In the screenshot below, I thought I offered a fairly decent

[Bug-gnubg] GNUBg Position ID question

2013-01-14 Thread stormen
something ? Thanks. -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/GNUBg-Position-ID-question-tp34892952p34892952.html Sent from the Gnu - Backgammon mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@gnu.org https

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Embarrassing question about TanBoard type.

2012-04-24 Thread Øystein Schønning-Johansen
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:24 PM, Philippe Michel philippe.mich...@sfr.frwrote: On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Øystein Schønning-Johansen wrote: Hi, The board type in GNU Backgammon is typedef'ed as a 2d array anBoard[2][25], but which player is on roll? Is the player with index 0 or the player with

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Embarrassing question about TanBoard type.

2012-04-23 Thread Philippe Michel
On Sun, 22 Apr 2012, Øystein Schønning-Johansen wrote: Hi, The board type in GNU Backgammon is typedef'ed as a 2d array anBoard[2][25], but which player is on roll? Is the player with index 0 or the player with index 1 ? I'm getting confused. Player 1 is on roll, at least when it comes down

[Bug-gnubg] 0ply question

2012-01-26 Thread Massimiliano Maini
Hi all, just stumbled on this. Take the position below: all the moves have cubeful equity of -1, as next turn, O would double and X will have to drop, independently on which move X makes now. Question: how can 0ply get this right, know that next cube decision is a D/P ? I was under

[Bug-gnubg] embarrassing question (from me): where are

2012-01-08 Thread Joseph Heled
The 0.17 weights and the benchmark files? They are no longer on ftp://ftp.demon.nl/pub/games/gnubg/nn-training/benchmarks Thanks, Joseph ___ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg

Re: [Bug-gnubg] embarrassing question (from me): where are

2012-01-08 Thread Jim Segrave
On 01/08/2012 10:05 PM, Joseph Heled wrote: The 0.17 weights and the benchmark files? They are no longer on ftp://ftp.demon.nl/pub/games/gnubg/nn-training/benchmarks Thanks, Joseph ___ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@gnu.org

Re: [Bug-gnubg] embarrassing question (from me): where are

2012-01-08 Thread Jim Segrave
On 01/08/2012 10:18 PM, Jim Segrave wrote: On 01/08/2012 10:05 PM, Joseph Heled wrote: The 0.17 weights and the benchmark files? They are no longer on ftp://ftp.demon.nl/pub/games/gnubg/nn-training/benchmarks Thanks, Joseph ___ Bug-gnubg

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-16 Thread Ian Shaw
Øystein Schønning-Johansen wrote: Sent: 12 December 2011 20:59 So, we don't care about the exactness of the absolute evaluation, we care about the relative evaluation between the moves (or resulting positions after each move). That is what makes it select good moves! This strategy was

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-16 Thread Thomas A. Moulton
If gnubg could estimate the opponents rating based upon error rate then it could be more aggressive on a redouble since the other player is likely to make errors to modify the cube decision. This may have NOTHING to do with what your're talking about right now... :) Tom On 12/16/2011 06:43

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-16 Thread Ian Shaw
thought about this angle. n Ian From: Thomas A. Moulton [mailto:t...@moulton.us] Sent: 16 December 2011 12:00 To: Ian Shaw Cc: Øystein Schønning-Johansen; Mark Higgins; Frank Berger; bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question If gnubg could estimate

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-16 Thread Joseph Heled
Subject: Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question If gnubg could estimate the opponents rating based upon error rate then it could be more aggressive on a redouble since the other player is likely to make errors to modify the cube decision. This may have NOTHING to do with what

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-12 Thread Mark Higgins
I ran my test out to 400k runs and the symmetric network starting drifting down, with the normal one edging it out in head to head competitions. But the real evidence against it came from looking at probability estimates from a couple benchmark positions: one where white is almost certainly

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-12 Thread Øystein Schønning-Johansen
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Mark Higgins migg...@gmail.com wrote: I assume this is what the gnubg benchmark stuff is about btw? Comparing probability estimates in a bunch of benchmark board positions against rolled-out probabilities? How do you condense the many different cases into a

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-11 Thread Mark Higgins
I tried a little experiment on this: a 10-hidden-node network with a single probability-of-win output, but two setups. The first doesn't have a whose turn is it input and doesn't add any symmetry constraints. The second has the extra inputs for the turn and makes the symmetry constraint I

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-11 Thread Joseph Heled
My experience tells me that 100,000 trials may not be sufficient. With today's computing power it should be easy to do at least a couple of millions. -Joseph On 12 December 2011 11:22, Mark Higgins migg...@gmail.com wrote: I tried a little experiment on this: a 10-hidden-node network with a

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-11 Thread Mark Higgins
Thx - I'll run it longer and with more hidden nodes and see what happens. On Dec 11, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Joseph Heled jhe...@gmail.com wrote: My experience tells me that 100,000 trials may not be sufficient. With today's computing power it should be easy to do at least a couple of

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-10 Thread Mark Higgins
You have an input that represents whose turn it is (one input for white, one for black, value one if that player is on turn and zero otherwise). I think that's in the original Tesauro setup isn't it? On Dec 10, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Joseph Heled jhe...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I am not sure how

[Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-10 Thread Frank Berger
Hi Mark, If I take a given board and translate the position into the inputs and then evaluate the network, it gives me a probability of win. If I then flip the board's perspective (ie white vs black) and do the same, I get another probability of win. Those two probabilities should sum to

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-10 Thread Mark Higgins
Thx! Makes sense. Though I wonder if adding back in the whose move is it input and reducing the hidden-output weights by half ends up as a net benefit for training. Maybe I'll test it out. On Dec 10, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Frank Berger fr...@bgblitz.com wrote: Hi Mark, If I take a given

[Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-09 Thread Mark Higgins
I've been playing around a bit with neural networks for backgammon and found something interesting, and want to see whether this is already part of gnubg. Assume a Tesauro-style network with the usual inputs, and some number of hidden nodes. And for simplicity, just one output representing the

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Neural network symmetry question

2011-12-09 Thread Joseph Heled
Well, I am not sure how you flip the position, since it matters who is on the move. -Joseph On 10 December 2011 16:17, Mark Higgins migg...@gmail.com wrote: I've been playing around a bit with neural networks for backgammon and found something interesting, and want to see whether this is

[Bug-gnubg] An important link and a question about using EPC values in deciding cube actions

2011-02-04 Thread Adi Kadmon
Hello all, (1) As a sequel to a correspondence some months ago, here is a link for downloading Joachim Matussek's important article about an approximation-formula for EPC values and their use in cube decisions in bearoff positions. This time it's the original article, and in English - not just

[Bug-gnubg] Fwd: An important link and a question about using EPC values in deciding cube actions

2011-02-04 Thread Adi Kadmon
Oops sorry I forgot to put the link in the last delivery. It's http://home.arcor.de/joachimmatussek/BearoffGWC.zip - Adi -- Forwarded message -- From: Adi Kadmon adi.kad...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 3:42 PM Subject: An important link and a question about using EPC

RE: [Bug-gnubg] Fwd: An important link and a question about using EPC values in deciding cube actions

2011-02-04 Thread Ian Shaw
...@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Adi Kadmon Sent: 04 February 2011 13:45 To: bug-gnubg@gnu.org Subject: [Bug-gnubg] Fwd: An important link and a question about using EPC values in deciding cube actions Oops sorry I forgot to put the link in the last delivery

Re: [Bug-gnubg] Question on Luck Analysis

2010-12-16 Thread Jim Segrave
On Thu 16 Dec 2010 (10:09 -), Ian Shaw wrote: Hi Christian, Thanks for the explanation. So, just to clarify, the discrepancy of 0.133 from the theoretical 0 in the result reflects discrepancies in the gnubg evaluation function. To calculate luck, gnubg evaluates the equity after

[Bug-gnubg] A question about the tutorial mode

2010-03-19 Thread Dennis Wilson
time I could get a hit. My question is what is the tutorial mode actually showing. Thanks :-) ___ Bug-gnubg mailing list Bug-gnubg@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg

[Bug-gnubg] Install GNU Backgammon question

2009-12-05 Thread Kevin Baker
Hi, I have bought an a Apple Macbook Pro, running Mac OS X 10.6 Can you please let me know how I can install backgammon on this machine? (If you could point me to a step-by-step guide I'd appreciate it as I am an Apple novice). Many thanks for any assistance. Kevin

[Bug-gnubg] question for top players

2009-11-15 Thread coka
6-4 5-3(2) in 1 match point gnu agree with me but in money session he think best moves 13-11(2)5-3(2) is gnu rollout wrong or some1 can explain me why its best move for money session? ty -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/question-for-top-players

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