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From: Jennifer Gavin-Wear [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:30 AM
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Subject: RE: A Contractor or Two
A few years ago I ran a small IT dealership. I learnt that problem
customers stay problem customers, things never get better. And the longer
you
AMEN! I gave up on my computer hardware side-business after dealing
with just one of these. I should have simply refused to sell them the
system rather than deal with all the problems that this person kept
causing.
On 12/30/05, Jennifer Gavin-Wear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few years ago I ran a
So I work out the number of hours I think it's going to take, add a big
margin for error, then add another margin for error.
Though I typically bid per project, I spend a lot of time figuring out
exactly how many hours it's going to take me to complete something, and
I've gotten to the point
The problem is for the small guy to get those good clients because
when you need business you will do about anything to get it, which
leads to trouble and you end up with clients who are the buy here -
pay here (aka bad credit car buyers) types of customers.
AMEN BROTHER! Right on!
:)
they were our bread and butter. I try to work with them and
help to feel like things have not changed too much.
-Mark
-Original Message-
From: Les Mizzell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 5:02 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
So I work out
This has been a really interesting thread, in part because I've seen several
messages from list members whose names I did not recognize. Are you all new
members or just lurking most of the time? And do you use CF in your
day-to-day business?
George
Only one of the clients I've spoken to in the last couple of years was ok
with hourly rates. Maybe it's the mix of clients I see, but the rest all see
charging by the hour as something of an open cheque.
hehe...an open cheque for the always open project scope seems fair ;-)
Bryan Stevenson
This has been a really interesting thread, in part because I've seen several
messages from list members whose names I did not recognize. Are you all new
members or just lurking most of the time? And do you use CF in your
day-to-day business?
George
Well I'm not a lurkerbut I have used
I am so very late on this thread
Very interesting
Mark, great post on the blog I plan to re-read it.
Thx,
Yves
On 12/30/05, Mark A Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This process is of great interest to me. We work at it from month to month
as our business grows and we do project
tanks!
-Original Message-
From: Yves Arsenault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:48 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
I am so very late on this thread
Very interesting
Mark, great post on the blog I plan to re-read it.
Thx,
Yves
On 12/29/05, Mike Kear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Only one of the clients I've spoken to in the last couple of years was ok
with hourly rates. Maybe it's the mix of clients I see, but the rest all see
charging by the hour as something of an open cheque. ...
They want to have a cap on what they
.
-Original Message-
From: Earl, George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: A Contractor or Two
This has been a really interesting thread, in part because I've seen
several messages
-Original Message-
From: Ali Awan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:30 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
Matt,
I've been asking a similar question to no avail.
I'm glad someone started this thread over here.
As it seems from your post that you
Because it's you discount: £99,000,000
Total: £1
Now doesn't that look much nicer?! :OD
Ade
-Original Message-
From: Rich Kroll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 29 December 2005 14:47
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: A Contractor or Two
One thing I've found that you
Wow...I think Matt and I are on the same page...well said Matt!! ;-)
The next step, which I haven't done yet, is to bring in a CF
coder. the trouble with expanding your staff is your clients want
*you* to do the work if the relationship is right, and you're stepping
away from them. Another
*
Ade
-Original Message-
From: Rich Kroll [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 29 December 2005 14:47
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: A Contractor or Two
One thing I've found that you should watch out for is the concept of giving
away free or low flat-fee type projects is the clients
16:45
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
On 12/29/05, Adrian Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd counter that by saying that you could point out to the customer that
they are getting a good deal. Tell them in as many ways as you can think
of!
Showing the full price on the invoice
LOL... o my...
!K
-Original Message-
From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: December 29, 2005 10:45 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
On 12/29/05, Adrian Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd counter that by saying that you could point out
Well the best sales person is the one who makes each customer think they
are getting a deal better than anyone else could get there.
I charge different clients different rates but do not charge different rates
for types of work on the same project.
On 12/29/05, Adrian Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I loved reading Bryanâs post, about the grocery store analogy. Iâve tried
to dip my foot in the pool of freelancing, and Iâve turned down a lot for the
same reasons. Oh we just want to give this a try for a couple of months
(without pay), and if it works outâ¦.. Yeah, hopefully the
You could modify the Dilbert cartoon from a few weeks ago and just say that the
discount will be between 1 and two million dollars.
It'll be a lot closer to the 'one dollar' than the 'two million' dollars, but
it will definately be between those two numbers!
When I 1st started contracting I had a hard time saying my rate out load
Yea, same here. But, I'm almost too busy now, so maybe it's time to
raise rates a little bit. I don't back down on them for anybody.
I now do most jobs in phases:
1. Meet with client and work out site map and site
The customer will do whatever you ALLOW them to do. It is the same old adage...
People get treated the way they ALLOW themselves to be treated.
A client who wants to circumvent a sound business practice is not a client that
can be considered a good investment of your time.
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
When I 1st started contracting I had a hard time saying my rate out
load
Yea, same here. But, I'm almost too busy now, so maybe it's time to
raise rates a little bit. I don't back down on them for anybody.
I now do most jobs in phases:
1. Meet
I used to do this, did it in 1/4s or 1/3s depending on the jobs. However at
some point in the past couple of years I have switched to strictly hourly
rates. I think once I started getting so busy, one of my clients is
essentially a full time job at around 40 hours per week, is when I switched
to
.
-Original Message-
From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:38 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
I used to do this, did it in 1/4s or 1/3s depending on the jobs.
However at some point in the past couple of years I have switched to
strictly
Glad to shed some lightbest of luck ;-)
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com
.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com
- Original Message -
From: Les Mizzell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: A Contractor or Two
When
On 12/29/05, Michael E. Carluen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Les, interesting point on progress payments. I'm curious as to how and how
many enforce billing based on progress ie 1/3 work done, 33.3% of job
billed/paid.
I sidestep this issue with weekly billings. Each billing includes a
The customer will do whatever you ALLOW them to do. It is the same old
adage... People get treated the way they ALLOW themselves to be treated.
A client who wants to circumvent a sound business practice is not a client
that can be considered a good investment of your time.
Well said...if
All,
I don't have much more to add, except for some reinforcement of already
stated ideas. My mother and step-father have been running very
successful engineering consulting firms out of their house for years,
and their advice to me has echoed what the folks on this list have said:
1) Never
Michael E. Carluen wrote:
Les, interesting point on progress payments. I'm curious as to how and how
many enforce billing based on progress ie 1/3 work done, 33.3% of job
billed/paid.
It can vary a little per client, but unless it's somebody I know and
love and do continual work with, I
I sidestep this issue with weekly billings. Each billing includes a
shorthand, day-by-day di this today list.
Now there's a thought. Keeps your cash flow a little more regular too...
~|
Find out how CFTicket can increase
On 12/29/05, Michael E. Carluen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Les, interesting point on progress payments. I'm curious as to how and how
many enforce billing based on progress ie 1/3 work done, 33.3% of job
billed/paid.
I've done progress- and frequency-based billing and prefer
frequency-based
On 12/29/05, Les Mizzell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now there's a thought. Keeps your cash flow a little more regular too...
That has been a BIG benefit. There is literally always money coming
in, and since its weekly the bites you take out of the client are
smaller, which seems to decrease the
Only one of the clients I've spoken to in the last couple of years was ok
with hourly rates. Maybe it's the mix of clients I see, but the rest all see
charging by the hour as something of an open cheque. Maybe they've all had
renovatoins done in their houses and seen the costs blow out that way.
A few years ago I ran a small IT dealership. I learnt that problem
customers stay problem customers, things never get better. And the longer
you keep them on your books the worse it gets. While I was dealing with the
idiots (and that's being kind) my competition was getting the good stuff.
Had
If the issue is whether or not you can quote a standardized rate to a
client, my answer is an emphatic yes, and no, don't be greedy as in
set the price on a job-specific basis.
Often my clients hear me say that there are only two types of jobs:
Brain surgery and Legwork. Brain surgery equates
I would agree. To be honest, I teach anyone who will listen not to work with
people who have packages setup for custom work. Now, a prebuilt CMS or
whatever is fine but to say You get 10 pages + 1 swf for $750 is a
terrible deal. (that's only an example)
We either work hourly or estimate the
Matt,
I've been asking a similar question to no avail.
I'm glad someone started this thread over here.
As it seems from your post that you have quite some experience doing this on
your own. I just wanted to ask some advice of you.
Do you suggest having a set hourly rate, set in stone? Like
I know ya asked Mattbut I've also been through the contracting ringer
I'm trying to establish a loyal customer base, in baby steps. I'll sometimes
do small projects for free, or for a very low flat-fee, to start. I'm hoping
that once they are blown away by the results, I'll get
Hi Ali,
I set a single rate in stone. If I am talking on the telephone to a
client, or writing them an email that is an assessment of a series of
site mods they are requesting (billed 2 hrs of that this morning) or
setting up a server or ... *whatever*. My time is worht X and that is
what I
On 12/28/05, Ali Awan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matt,
I've been asking a similar question to no avail.
I'm glad someone started this thread over here.
As it seems from your post that you have quite some experience doing this on
your own. I just wanted to ask some advice of you.
Do you
lol John pro bono yourself into the poor house. Excellent quote. :-)
Someone, I think Matt or Bryan said it best. Be firm (aka confident) in your
rate. I once was shy about my rate but I'm well worth it in many arenas so
now I DO NOT budge my rate for anyone. What I will do is shave hours down
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