On 11/22/2014 10:10 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Lu, 10 nov 14, 18:20:37, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman:
Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in
On Sunday 23 November 2014 17:23:15 Tanstaafl wrote:
'installing systemd, then removing
and installing sysvinit' - was absolutely not and never could be
considered the *equivalent*
of doing a *clean install with sysvinit*,
where systemd is never installed in the first place.
The
On Du, 23 nov 14, 12:23:15, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/22/2014 10:10 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
You made a claim that installing systemd would pull in other packages
vie dependencies, that are later difficult to remove.
Incorrect. I never made that claim. Methinks
On 11/23/2014 12:43 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 23 November 2014 17:23:15 Tanstaafl wrote:
'installing systemd, then removing
and installing sysvinit' - was absolutely not and never could be
considered the *equivalent*
of doing a *clean install with sysvinit*,
On Sun 23 Nov 2014 at 13:27:55 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:43 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 23 November 2014 17:23:15 Tanstaafl wrote:
'installing systemd, then removing
and installing sysvinit' - was absolutely not and never could be
considered the
Le 23/11/2014 20:09, Brian a écrit :
On Sun 23 Nov 2014 at 13:27:55 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:43 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 23 November 2014 17:23:15 Tanstaafl wrote:
'installing systemd, then removing
and installing sysvinit' - was absolutely not and
On 11/23/2014 2:09 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
It would be nice if you regarded the word functionally as an essential
qualification of equivalent or identical and not dismiss it.
What would be nice is if you (and others) would stop claiming that
'installing systemd, then installing
On Sun 23 Nov 2014 at 14:15:17 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/23/2014 2:09 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
It would be nice if you regarded the word functionally as an essential
qualification of equivalent or identical and not dismiss it.
What would be nice is if you (and others)
On Sun 23 Nov 2014 at 20:13:06 +0100, Erwan David wrote:
Le 23/11/2014 20:09, Brian a écrit :
It would be nice if you regarded the word functionally as an essential
qualification of equivalent or identical and not dismiss it.
If functionnally is the only criteria, then its time to flee.
On Sunday 23 November 2014 18:27:55 Tanstaafl wrote:
Ignorance reigns supreme.
Lisi - they are purely and simply *not* equivalents, and never can be.
They _are_ equivalent. They are not the same. Try your dictionary rather
than gratuitously accusing me of ignorance because I don't agree
On 11/23/2014 1:27 PM, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/23/2014 12:43 PM, Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday 23 November 2014 17:23:15 Tanstaafl wrote:
'installing systemd, then removing
and installing sysvinit' - was absolutely not and never could be
considered the *equivalent*
of
On Lu, 10 nov 14, 18:20:37, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman:
Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in such a
way that systemd is never installed, thus avoiding any
On 23/11/14 02:10, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Lu, 10 nov 14, 18:20:37, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman:
Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in such a
way that systemd is never
On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman:
Ok, then explain to me the procedure for running the installer in such a
way that systemd is never installed, thus avoiding any potential
problems that might result from later
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 01:01:47AM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:41:14AM +0300, Reco wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:15:38PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 06:29:24PM +0300, Reco wrote:
Hi.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 03:48:34PM
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:14:17PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 22:53:36, Joel Rees wrote:
If you can't deal with it, snip it?
I don't think it brings anything useful to a discussion on -user.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 12:00:52PM -0500, Ric Moore wrote:
On 11/15/2014 08:35 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
At the same time, most debian users likely do not really care about
transition
plan and systemd. It was widely published everywhere in March and yet, no
one would have cared if this
Hi.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 03:48:34PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:41:23PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
As much as I dislike systemd, I'm not sure that it's a vendor
conspiracy to control the Linux ecosystem. Yes, redhat pays
Lennart Poettering's salary (among
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 06:29:24PM +0300, Reco wrote:
Hi.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 03:48:34PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:41:23PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
As much as I dislike systemd, I'm not sure that it's a vendor
conspiracy to control the Linux
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 08:29:28PM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/16/2014 03:32 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:05:08PM -0500, Marty wrote:
snip
My point is that in a modular design nothing should be so entrenched
as to be irreplaceable. Absence of an alternate should not
Le 16/11/2014 02:13, Ludovic Meyer a écrit :
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:05:49PM +0100, Erwan David wrote:
Le 15/11/2014 20:24, Brian a écrit :
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 04:09:52PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/16/2014 at 02:51 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:28:35PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
[about the Linux kernel developers]
They do, however, maintain their external interfaces - rigidly so,
sometimes
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:15:38PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 06:29:24PM +0300, Reco wrote:
Hi.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 03:48:34PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:41:23PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
As much as I dislike systemd, I'm
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 08:44:06AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
One thing at a time.
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:23 AM, Ludovic Meyer ludo.v.me...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Your definition of mainstream is strange.
What's strange about it? Do I need to provide a link to the dictionary
for you
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:41:14AM +0300, Reco wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 07:15:38PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 06:29:24PM +0300, Reco wrote:
Hi.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 03:48:34PM +0100, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:41:23PM -0500,
On 11/17/2014 01:54 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 08:29:28PM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/16/2014 03:32 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:05:08PM -0500, Marty wrote:
snip
My point is that in a modular design nothing should be so entrenched
as to be
Le Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:21:49 -0500,
Marty mar...@ix.netcom.com a écrit :
On 11/15/2014 06:49 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
[...]
At least some of people rejecting systemd demand that it be removed
completely, including libsystemd. How is it pro-choice to forbid me
from being able to use a
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 19:31:27 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/15/2014 at 07:21 PM, Paul E Condon wrote:
Yet another topic: It should be possible to install systemd on a
system that already has some other init system installed on it. This
should be tested, but how?
If I understand
On Sun 16 Nov 2014 at 00:23:24 +, Martin Read wrote:
On 15/11/14 23:04, Paul E Condon wrote:
If one could absolutely rely on apt-get always getting it right, then
apt-get install -y sysvinit-core
could always be used to remove systemd even from a system that has
been booted into
I have been informed off-list that some might misinterpret something I
wrote here, so I will attempt to clarify a few things.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 11/12/2014 5:18 PM,
On 11/16/2014 at 05:58 AM, Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 19:31:27 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/15/2014 at 07:21 PM, Paul E Condon wrote:
Yet another topic: It should be possible to install systemd on a
system that already has some other init system installed on it.
This should
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 21:25:01, Marty wrote:
I don't think Debian (or FOSS, for that matter) was ever about a
winner-take-all approach to software choice. That seems to have originated
in the commercial distributions, which have a financial interest in a)
controlling users and b) controlling
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 17:21:22, Paul E Condon wrote:
Another topic:
My reading of the man page for apt-get seems to say that there
is no way to purge the configuration file of packages that were pulled
in to satisfy a dependency and subsequently autoremoved. I hope this
is an artifact of poor
On Du, 16 nov 14, 15:32:58, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
My mental image about Debian and FOSS is more of an eco-systemd, where
^^
survival of the fittest applies.
That typo is just too funny :p
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 11:37:14, Miles Fidelman wrote:
For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant
operational impact (time required to deal with changes).
Have you considered, just for a fraction of a second, that a migration
to systemd, however painful it may prove,
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:25:01PM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/15/2014 07:45 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote:
On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 09:41:23PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Marty wrote:
On 11/15/2014 07:45 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote:
On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM,
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 11:37:14, Miles Fidelman wrote:
For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant
operational impact (time required to deal with changes).
Have you considered, just for a fraction of a second, that a migration
to systemd, however
On Du, 16 nov 14, 10:18:24, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Let me also turn the question back at you:
Have you considered, just for a fraction of a second, that a migration
to systemd, could, in fact, make some systems LESS reliable and
understandable?
Sure I did. systemd is not bug-free and it's
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 09:43:23PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
I have been informed off-list that some might misinterpret something I
wrote here, so I will attempt to clarify a few things.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:04 PM,
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Du, 16 nov 14, 10:18:24, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Let me also turn the question back at you:
Have you considered, just for a fraction of a second, that a migration
to systemd, could, in fact, make some systems LESS reliable and understandable?
Sure I did. systemd is not
On 11/15/2014 08:35 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
At the same time, most debian users likely do not really care about transition
plan and systemd. It was widely published everywhere in March and yet, no one
would have cared if this
mattered ?
I installed systemd to Jessie as soon as it was
On 11/16/2014 05:26 AM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
Le Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:21:49 -0500,
Marty mar...@ix.netcom.com a écrit :
On 11/15/2014 06:49 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
[...]
At least some of people rejecting systemd demand that it be removed
completely, including libsystemd. How is it
On 11/16/2014 at 11:23 AM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 09:43:23PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
I have been informed off-list that some might misinterpret
something I wrote here, so I will attempt to clarify a few things.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Joel Rees
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:28:35PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
On 11/16/2014 at 11:23 AM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 09:43:23PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
I have been informed off-list that some might misinterpret
something I wrote here, so I will attempt to clarify a few
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:05:08PM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/16/2014 05:26 AM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
Le Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:21:49 -0500,
Marty mar...@ix.netcom.com a écrit :
On 11/15/2014 06:49 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
[...]
At least some of people rejecting systemd demand that it
On 11/16/2014 at 02:51 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:28:35PM -0500, The Wanderer wrote:
[about the Linux kernel developers]
They do, however, maintain their external interfaces - rigidly so,
sometimes to what others might call the point of insanity. An
intentionally
One thing at a time.
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:23 AM, Ludovic Meyer ludo.v.me...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Your definition of mainstream is strange.
What's strange about it? Do I need to provide a link to the dictionary
for you for that? I assume not.
Given a community, there is a mainstream
On 11/16/2014 03:32 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 01:05:08PM -0500, Marty wrote:
snip
My point is that in a modular design nothing should be so entrenched
as to be irreplaceable. Absence of an alternate should not normally
indicate impossibility of an alternate, but some
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 07:55:23, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Note that there seems to be an ongoing issue with whether or not the
installer will issue a warning before a package dependency leads to an
automatic change to systemd. See bugs 765803 and 762194.
installer usually means Debian
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 13:27:22, Helmut Wollmersdorfer wrote:
And all this says nothing about big servers, which need some
magnitudes more of reliability, stability and scaling. E.g. not using
plain text files for logs causes problems in the long run and in daily
work.
The default setting for
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
On 11/14/2014 05:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
snip
Jumping in here as myself, not Joel's tag-team member. :)
Debian as an entity doesn't really do much. There are only one or
several volunteers who
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 22:53:36, Joel Rees wrote:
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
[...]
[snip another wall of text about engineering principles]
And, thus, once again,
The engineering question
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:49:18 +0200
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
In my opinion the best defence against a monopoly[1] of any kind is to
develop competitive alternatives.
We have seen how well that worked with MS Windows over the years...
Cheers,
Ron.
--
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to
repair damage from excessive
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:55:47, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not
mine) init, and therefore no selection was needed, but now that there
are several a selection suddenly
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
[(clipping too much, I now realize)]
The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no
objections.
[5] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00611.html
My impression is that
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 22:53:36, Joel Rees wrote:
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
[...]
[snip another wall of text about
On 15-11-2014 14:17, Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to
repair
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 22:05:58, Joel Rees wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
[(clipping too much, I now realize)]
The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with no
objections.
[5]
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 15:22:06 +0200, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote:
On 15-11-2014 14:17, Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It
duplicates
2014/11/15 22:57 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com:
On Sb, 15 nov 14, 22:05:58, Joel Rees wrote:
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
[(clipping too much, I now realize)]
The transition plan[5] has been posted on -devel since July with
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 07:55:23, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Note that there seems to be an ongoing issue with whether or not the
installer will issue a warning before a package dependency leads to an
automatic change to systemd. See bugs 765803 and 762194.
installer
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to
repair damage from excessive
On 15-11-2014 16:59, Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 15:22:06 +0200, Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote:
On 15-11-2014 14:17, Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
equivalent modular alternatives, and
On 11/15/2014 7:20 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:55:47, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not
mine) init, and therefore no selection
Le 15/11/2014 20:24, Brian a écrit :
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It
duplicates
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
equivalent modular
On 2014_0733-0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 02:02:07 +0100, Michael Biebl wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 01:58 schrieb Miles Fidelman:
Michael Biebl wrote:
Sorry, but that is not what I asked for. I asked for specifics.
Your answer doesn't contain any
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 19:24:49 +, Brian wrote:
Upgrading
-
After changing sources.list and an 'apt-get update' do
apt-get install sysvinit-core systemd-shim
Then proceed with an upgrade and dist-upgrade.
New Install
---
Use the apt-get command
On 2014_1200-0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/11/2014 11:38 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote:
Other people subscribe to a meaning of default which, e.g., assumes
only that systemd will get installed as PID 1 unless some action is
taken to prevent it from getting so installed.
On 11/15/2014 at 06:37 PM, Paul E Condon wrote:
I suggest that the word 'default' not be used any more in this
discussion. It serves only to obfuscate the nature of the problem.
The word default is used in the discussion because the initial
decision made by the Debian project in regard to this
On 2014_1807+0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
Le Tue, 11 Nov 2014 07:42:33 -0500,
Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org a écrit :
On 11/10/2014 6:18 PM, Michael Biebl bi...@debian.org wrote:
Am 11.11.2014 um 00:14 schrieb Miles Fidelman:
Ok, then explain to me the procedure for
On 15/11/14 23:04, Paul E Condon wrote:
If one could absolutely rely on apt-get always getting it right, then
apt-get install -y sysvinit-core
could always be used to remove systemd even from a system that has
been booted into systemd and running, and not just in the context
of a pre-seed.
On 16/11/14 00:21, Paul E Condon wrote:
It should be possible to install systemd on a system that already
has some other init system installed on it. This should be tested,
but how?
The obvious way is to upgrade a wheezy system, following the upgrade to
jessie while keeping sysvinit as the
On 11/15/2014 at 07:21 PM, Paul E Condon wrote:
On 2014_1807+0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
There are no functional differences between an installation with
sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is
installed later, this is a fact.
Theory tells us this should
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote:
On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
There are no functional differences between an installation with
sysvinit-core out of the box or
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 11:37:14AM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
equivalent modular alternatives, and
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:05:49PM +0100, Erwan David wrote:
Le 15/11/2014 20:24, Brian a écrit :
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Brian wrote:
On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
By the same
On 11/15/2014 06:49 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
On 11/14/2014 05:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
snip
Jumping in here as myself, not Joel's tag-team member. :)
Debian as an entity doesn't really do much. There
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 03:43:40PM -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/15/2014 7:20 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:55:47, Tanstaafl wrote:
On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
It was claimed that sysvinit was the default
On 11/15/2014 07:45 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote:
On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
There are no functional differences between an
Marty wrote:
On 11/15/2014 07:45 PM, Ludovic Meyer wrote:
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:26:26AM -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 02:16 PM, Brian wrote:
On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:36:14 -0500, Marty wrote:
On 11/11/2014 12:07 PM, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
There are no functional differences
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:
On 11/12/2014 5:18 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mi, 12 nov 14, 15:43:09, Tanstaafl wrote:
Sounds good to me, but in reality, since the default
On 14-11-2014 12:26, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
snip
However, you and several others are rejecting systemd on ideological
grounds. There's not much that can be done about that, short or
re-implementing systemd according to your vision.
I personally reject the design of systemd.
To paraphrase
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:04 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org
wrote:
On 11/12/2014 5:18 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mi, 12 nov 14,
Am 13.11.2014 um 21:49 schrieb Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com:
On Jo, 13 nov 14, 10:49:44, Amodelo wrote:
Sorry, used the wrong account for answering previously.
I am also not interested in testing an ugly work-around (install
unwanted A, replace it by B). My servers seem to
Am 14.11.2014 um 11:26 schrieb Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com:
Again, I can't comment on Fedora, but my Raspberry Pi runs systemd just
fine. Also my laptop running is quite far from being a speed monster.
On my two Raspberries I do not care.
On a laptop it depends on your usage
Helmut Wollmersdorfer wrote:
Am 13.11.2014 um 21:49 schrieb Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com:
On Jo, 13 nov 14, 10:49:44, Amodelo wrote:
Sorry, used the wrong account for answering previously.
I am also not interested in testing an ugly work-around (install
unwanted A, replace it by
Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis wrote:
On 14-11-2014 12:26, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
snip
However, you and several others are rejecting systemd on ideological
grounds. There's not much that can be done about that, short or
re-implementing systemd according to your vision.
I personally reject the
On 11/14/2014 05:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
snip
Jumping in here as myself, not Joel's tag-team member. :)
Debian as an entity doesn't really do much. There are only one or
several volunteers who start doing things. Setting up a separate port
On Friday 14 November 2014 11:42:32 Dan wrote:
Do you remember the Gnome/KDE war? Now
we have two great desktop. Let's not impose by law an init system.
Yes, but Gnome is the default and you have to be an advanced user to get
KDE.
And anyway, some of us want neither and have to go to even
Le Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:26:09 +0200,
Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com a écrit :
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
[...]
So Fedora is not, itself, really ready yet, except for two groups, a
certain group of workstation users who want and are willing to use
fairly new,
On Friday 14 November 2014 12:27:22 Helmut Wollmersdorfer wrote:
Am 14.11.2014 um 11:26 schrieb Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com:
Again, I can't comment on Fedora, but my Raspberry Pi runs systemd just
fine. Also my laptop running is quite far from being a speed monster.
On my two
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:59:11, Joel Rees wrote:
[...]
[snip another wall of text about engineering principles]
And, thus, once again,
The engineering question keeps getting sidetracked by people who
assert that
On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:10:22 +
Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
Do you remember the Gnome/KDE war? Now
we have two great desktop. Let's not impose by law an init system.
Yes, but Gnome is the default and you have to be an advanced user to get
KDE.
Not really, you just have
On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not
mine) init, and therefore no selection was needed, but now that there
are several a selection suddenly is needed.
I don't recall claiming that sysvinit
2014/11/14 23:12 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org:
On 11/14/2014 5:26 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
It was claimed that sysvinit was the default *and only* (emphasis not
mine) init, and therefore no selection was needed, but now that there
are several a selection
On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 04:54:46PM -0800, Jyri J. Virkki wrote:
Clearly something is wrong with the procedures if it is possible for
only four people to so drastically change the course of debian,
against the wishes of so many.
You're able to count the 4; you aren't able to count the many. And
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