Re: Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Sunday 13 February 2011 22:51:02 Nick Sabalausky wrote: > "Caligo" wrote in message > news:mailman.1613.1297648969.4748.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > > > Qt is not an open source project. Qt is Free software (GPL/LGPL) which > > is also dual licensed (commercial license) for development of

Re: Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread Nick Sabalausky
"Caligo" wrote in message news:mailman.1613.1297648969.4748.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > > Qt is not an open source project. Qt is Free software (GPL/LGPL) which is > also dual licensed (commercial license) for development of proprietary and > commercial software. Even if Microsoft was the

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Simen kjaeraas wrote: Having just landed a new job, I can now say that I will be using D in that job (but aren't using it yet). Please keep us posted!

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Sunday 13 February 2011 21:59:58 Simen kjaeraas wrote: > Robert Clipsham wrote: > > Having seen a post by Peter Alexander (in Re: D for game development), > > mentioning some of the issues he's hit I thought I'd post this. I've > > been in his shoes (every other time I use D it seems), and feel

Re: LAPACK/BLAS/SciD Windows

2011-02-13 Thread dsimcha
Good hint. I found some pre-built binaries at http://dsource.org/projects/multiarray , Bill Baxter's old project. I tested them (superficially) and they WORK on Windows w/ DMD 2.052 beta and SciD SVN. Lars, please post this zip file somewhere on your SciD site so that other Windows users who

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread so
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:47:30 +0200, Alan Smithee wrote: Gary Whatmore Wrote (fixed that for you): Let's try to act reasonable here. Walter fanboyism is already getting old and sadly favored by our famous NG trolls, that is pretty much everyone here. I wouldn't be shocked to hear this Gary What

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread Simen kjaeraas
Robert Clipsham wrote: Having seen a post by Peter Alexander (in Re: D for game development), mentioning some of the issues he's hit I thought I'd post this. I've been in his shoes (every other time I use D it seems), and feel I should ask - who here uses D, and to what extent? I'm mostl

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Kevin Bealer
Sorry this was a completely unintentional error --- I meant to say "in case anyone doubts Gary's post". Blame the lateness of the night and/or my annoyingly lossy wireless keyboard. Kevin

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Kevin Bealer
> our famous Reddit trolls, that is retard = uriel = eternium = lurker In case anyone doubts gay's guess... for those who don't follow entertainment trivia, Alan Smithee is a pseudonym used by directors disowning a film (google it). So anyone using this name is actually effectively *claiming* to

Re: inlining or not inlining...

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
bearophile wrote: Walter: The inline assembler can't do everything a standalone assembler can, but what it does it does well enough, and is a pleasure (to me) to use. The D inline assembler has another purpose you have not underlined: it's a didactic tool to learn some assembly without nothin

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread gölgeliyele
On 2/13/11 2:05 PM, Walter Bright wrote: golgeliyele wrote: 2. dmd compiler's command line options: This is mostly an esthetic issue. However, it is like the entrance to your house. People who are not sure about entering in care about what it looks like from the outside. If Walter is willing,

Re: greatest common divisor implementation

2011-02-13 Thread Matthias Walter
On 02/07/2011 05:13 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: > On 2/7/11 3:18 PM, Matthias Walter wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> as I'm currently working on a C++ project which involves gcd >> computations I had a quick look at phobos' implementation. >> >> 1. First thing I saw is that gcd(-3,6) raises an exce

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread gölgeliyele
"nedbrek" wrote: > > Yes, I am also using some tricks I found on the web to support building > outside of the source tree. > > I currently have all the dependendcies in one file, and regenerate manually. > I have gotten auto-dependency generation to work with C++ (it is just a > matter of bre

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread so
Unfortunately DMC is always out of the question because the performance is 10-20 behind competition, fast compilation won't help it. Can you please give a few links on this?

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Denis Koroskin wrote: On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 02:01:53 +0300, Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: But note I was replying to your reply to Denis who asked specifically for demangled names for missing symbols. This by itself would be a useful improvement. I agree with that, but there's a

Re: inlining or not inlining...

2011-02-13 Thread so
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 00:58:48 +0200, Walter Bright wrote: so wrote: If you are against this reasoning, i don't have any idea why D has inline assembly, which again targets a very small audience. The inline assembler is s much easier to deal with than the miserable, fugly assemblers f

Re: Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread Caligo
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Nick_B wrote: > Here is a comment by Jeff_S, near the bottom of the comments re Microsoft > taking over Nokia. > > I now worry that the wonderful Qt C++ GUI library, that Nokia now owns with > it's acquisition of Trolltech a few years ago, will now founder in > sta

Re: Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread Jonathan M Davis
On Sunday 13 February 2011 16:09:43 Nick_B wrote: > Here is a comment by Jeff_S, near the bottom of the comments re > Microsoft taking over Nokia. > > I now worry that the wonderful Qt C++ GUI library, that Nokia now owns > with it's acquisition of Trolltech a few years ago, will now founder in >

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread nedbrek
Hello, "gölgeliyele" wrote in message news:9f28e8ed-939d-4edb-ab1f-0a4f9b72da44%usul...@gmail.com... >> >> I use an incremental build with Makefiles. >> > Can you tell me how you used incremental build with Makefiles? I > don't know much about D1, but it most likely has similar module and > bui

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Denis Koroskin
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 02:01:53 +0300, Walter Bright wrote: Michel Fortin wrote: But note I was replying to your reply to Denis who asked specifically for demangled names for missing symbols. This by itself would be a useful improvement. I agree with that, but there's a caveat. I did such

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread gölgeliyele
> > I use an incremental build with Makefiles. > > Hope that helps, > Ned Hi, Can you tell me how you used incremental build with Makefiles? I don't know much about D1, but it most likely has similar module and build support as D2. I have been playing around with incremental build with d

Re: Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread retard
Mon, 14 Feb 2011 13:03:42 +1300, Nick_B wrote: > I'm also scratching my head on this, in terms of what Nokia gets out of > this. They are essentially trading a larger, more successful, more > established, platform and ecosystem (Symbian) and large developer mind > share, for a much smaller, much l

Re: Who here actually uses D?

2011-02-13 Thread nedbrek
Hello all, (there are a lot of posts here! Just getting to this one :) "Robert Clipsham" wrote in message news:ifo9jd$1kt9$1...@digitalmars.com... > Having seen a post by Peter Alexander (in Re: D for game development), > mentioning some of the issues he's hit I thought I'd post this. I've bee

Re: inlining or not inlining...

2011-02-13 Thread bearophile
Adam D. Ruppe: > All of this has been done, and caught on to a huge degree. > They called that asm+types language "C" This is part of what I was referring to: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/talc/ Bye, bearophile

Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread Nick_B
Here is a comment by Jeff_S, near the bottom of the comments re Microsoft taking over Nokia. I now worry that the wonderful Qt C++ GUI library, that Nokia now owns with it's acquisition of Trolltech a few years ago, will now founder in stagnation. The optimist in me hopes that it will por

Re: inlining or not inlining...

2011-02-13 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
bearophile wrote: > There is not much intrinsic in the asm language that forces people > to not define and use a good type system on asm instructions to > catch programming bugs, to indent asm code well, to use a modern > IDE on asm code, and so on. All of this has been done, and caught on to a hu

Qt C++ GUI library is now set to die, as a result of the MS takeover

2011-02-13 Thread Nick_B
Here is a comment by Jeff_S, near the bottom of the comments re Microsoft taking over Nokia. I now worry that the wonderful Qt C++ GUI library, that Nokia now owns with it's acquisition of Trolltech a few years ago, will now founder in stagnation. The optimist in me hopes that it will ported

Re: inlining or not inlining...

2011-02-13 Thread bearophile
Walter: > The inline assembler can't do everything a standalone assembler can, but what > it > does it does well enough, and is a pleasure (to me) to use. The D inline assembler has another purpose you have not underlined: it's a didactic tool to learn some assembly without nothing but the nor

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread retard
Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:06:46 -0800, Brad Roberts wrote: > On 2/13/2011 3:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote: >> Michel Fortin wrote: >>> But note I was replying to your reply to Denis who asked specifically >>> for demangled names for missing symbols. This by itself would be a >>> useful improvement. >> >>

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Brad Roberts
On 2/13/2011 3:01 PM, Walter Bright wrote: > Michel Fortin wrote: >> But note I was replying to your reply to Denis who asked specifically for >> demangled names for missing symbols. This by >> itself would be a useful improvement. > > I agree with that, but there's a caveat. I did such a thing y

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Michel Fortin wrote: But note I was replying to your reply to Denis who asked specifically for demangled names for missing symbols. This by itself would be a useful improvement. I agree with that, but there's a caveat. I did such a thing years ago for C++ and Optlink. Nobody cared, including

Re: inlining or not inlining...

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
so wrote: If you are against this reasoning, i don't have any idea why D has inline assembly, which again targets a very small audience. The inline assembler is s much easier to deal with than the miserable, fugly assemblers found on the various systems. The Linux as assembler is designe

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Michel Fortin
On 2011-02-13 16:37:19 -0500, Walter Bright said: Michel Fortin wrote: Parsing error messages is a problem indeed. But demangling symbol names is easy. Demangling doesn't get us where golgeliyele wants to go. Correct. But note I was replying to your reply to Denis who asked specifically

Re: d-programming-language.org

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Gölgeliyele wrote: Can the D logo (as in the github site: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/1fe90c0586802aee103ff9ac0b8f3fbe?s=140&d=https://github.com%2Fimages%2Fgravatars%2Fgravatar-140.png) located on the left top area where the digital mars logo used to sit? the empty space looks a little

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Andrew Wiley
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Alan Smithee wrote: > Nick Sabalausky Wrote: > >> "Perhaps"? Well, is it or isn't it? Are we supposed to just assume > that lack of use means it's actually broken and not just unpopular? > > Assume it's broken or demonstrate large projects written in D to > show th

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Alan Smithee
Agreed. These things might make D appear like less of a joke, thus attracting more hapless users to their subsequent dismay.

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 10:35 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote: "spir" wrote in message news:mailman.1602.1297626622.4748.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... Also, I really miss a D for D lexical- syntactic- semantic- analyser that would produce D data structures. This would open the door hoards of projects, includ

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Alan Smithee
Nick Sabalausky Wrote: > "Perhaps"? Well, is it or isn't it? Are we supposed to just assume that lack of use means it's actually broken and not just unpopular? Assume it's broken or demonstrate large projects written in D to show that it CAN be unpopular because something else makes up for it. >

Re: Stupid little iota of an idea

2011-02-13 Thread bearophile
Andrej Mitrovic: > I'm getting more and more convinced to join the iota camp. The new > syntax barely saves any characters, and is potentially confusing. Simen kjaeraas: > This is also an interesting point. If a..b were to be a separate type, > opSlice would no longer need to exist, it could be

'live' testing style

2011-02-13 Thread spir
Hello, Back to the subject of using unittest and assert. I'll try to illustrate a testing style that seems to be rare in the D community, is not properly supported by D builtin tools --while this would require only minimal improvements--, and is imo rather sensible, practicle and efficient. U

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Michel Fortin wrote: Parsing error messages is a problem indeed. But demangling symbol names is easy. Demangling doesn't get us where golgeliyele wants to go.

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Nick Sabalausky
"spir" wrote in message news:mailman.1602.1297626622.4748.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > > Also, I really miss a D for D lexical- syntactic- semantic- analyser that > would produce D data structures. This would open the door hoards of > projects, including tool chain elements, meta-studies on

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Nick Sabalausky
"Alan Smithee" wrote in message news:ij967s$12rb$1...@digitalmars.com... > Andrej Mitrovic Wrote: > >> Could you elaborate on that? Aren't .di files supposed to be auto- > generated by the compiler, and not hand-written? > > Yea, aren't they? How come no one uses that feature? Perhaps it's > intr

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Paulo Pinto
Hi, this is what I miss in D and Go. Most developers that only used C and C++ aren't aware how easy it is to compile applications in more modern languages. It is funny that both D and Go advertise their compilation speed, when I was used to fast compilation since the MS-DOS days with Turbo Pas

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Paulo Pinto
Hi, now I am conviced. Thanks for the explanation. -- Paulo "Walter Bright" wrote in message news:ij99gb$18fm$1...@digitalmars.com... > Paulo Pinto wrote: >> Why C and not directly D? >> >> It is really bad adversting for D to know that when its creator came >> around to rewrite the linker, W

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 08:30 PM, Walter Bright wrote: 1. people just check out when they see pages and pages of wacky switches. Has anyone ever actually read all of man gcc? + 12_000 /lines/ in my version Denis -- _ vita es estrany spir.wikidot.com

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Michel Fortin
On 2011-02-13 14:38:20 -0500, Walter Bright said: Denis Koroskin wrote: It's not impossible, but is a tremendous amount of work in order to improve one error message, and one error message that generations of C and C++ programmers are comfortable dealing with. What's wrong with parsing low-

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 07:53 PM, Walter Bright wrote: Paulo Pinto wrote: Why C and not directly D? It is really bad adversting for D to know that when its creator came around to rewrite the linker, Walter decided to use C instead of D. That's a very good question. The answer is in the technical detai

Re: is there any way to get a list of classes that inherit a class?

2011-02-13 Thread Simen kjaeraas
hyp wrote: Hello, I know you can easily get the base class of some class in D. However is there any way to get a list of classes that inherit a given class? I was reading around the docs, but couldn't find anything :/. But maybe someone knows how to do it? This question is probably bett

Re: Unilink - alternative linker for win32/64, DMD OMF extensions?

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Lutger Blijdestijn wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Akakima wrote: Changing the object module format is not sufficient. The symbolic debug info would have to be changed (and Microsoft's is undocumented) and then there's the dependency on Microsoft's C runtime library if linking with VC generated ob

Re: Unilink - alternative linker for win32/64, DMD OMF extensions?

2011-02-13 Thread Lutger Blijdestijn
Walter Bright wrote: > Akakima wrote: >>> Changing the object module format is not sufficient. The symbolic debug >>> info would have to be changed (and Microsoft's is undocumented) and then >>> there's the dependency on Microsoft's C runtime library if linking with >>> VC generated object files.

Re: is there any way to get a list of classes that inherit a class?

2011-02-13 Thread hyp
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:38:23 -, Kevin Bealer wrote: I don't know if you can find all of them easily but you can find the instantiated ones by adding a line to the Foo constructor as shown here. Two limits: 1. This doesn't report Bar itself since a Bar object is never created; howeve

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 04:07 PM, Gary Whatmore wrote: his might sound like blasphemy, but I believe the skills and knowledge for developing large scale applications in language XYZ cannot be extrapolated from small code snippets or from experience with projects in other languages. You just need to eat

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Lutger Blijdestijn
gölgeliyele wrote: ... > > I think what we need here is numbers from a project that everyone has > access to. What is the largest D project right now? Can we get numbers on > that? How much time does it take to compile that project after a change > (assuming we are feeding all .d files at once)?

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Denis Koroskin wrote: It's not impossible, but is a tremendous amount of work in order to improve one error message, and one error message that generations of C and C++ programmers are comfortable dealing with. What's wrong with parsing low-level linker error messages and output them in human

Re: is there any way to get a list of classes that inherit a class?

2011-02-13 Thread Kevin Bealer
I don't know if you can find all of them easily but you can find the instantiated ones by adding a line to the Foo constructor as shown here. Two limits: 1. This doesn't report Bar itself since a Bar object is never created; however in a sense a 'Bar' object was created when Baz and Qux are cre

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Denis Koroskin
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 22:12:02 +0300, Walter Bright wrote: Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:26:50 +0200, Walter Bright wrote: golgeliyele wrote: I don't think C++ and gcc set a good bar here. Short of writing our own linker, we're a bit stuck with what ld does. That's

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
bearophile wrote: Walter: With D, the D compiler will create ModuleInfo and TypeInfo objects, which more or less rely on some sort of D runtime existing. In LDC there are no_typeinfo (and in maybe no_moduleinfo) pragmas to disable the generation of those for specific types/modules: http://ww

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
gölgeliyele wrote: Walter Bright wrote: golgeliyele wrote: 1. Difficult to understand linker errors due to missing main(): ... The problem is the main() can come from a library, or some other .obj file handed to the compiler that the compiler doesn't look inside. It's a very flexible way t

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread bearophile
Walter: > With D, the D compiler will create ModuleInfo and TypeInfo objects, > which more or less rely on some sort of D runtime existing. In LDC there are no_typeinfo (and in maybe no_moduleinfo) pragmas to disable the generation of those for specific types/modules: http://www.dsource.org/proj

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread gölgeliyele
Daniel Gibson wrote: > Am 13.02.2011 20:01, schrieb gölgeliyele: >> I don't think >> supporting multiple compilation models is a good thing. >> > > I think incremental compilation is a very useful feature for large projects so > it should be available. > Also the possibility to link in .o fi

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 01:59 PM, bearophile wrote: Walter: In C++, you get essentially the same thing from g++: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.4.5/../../../../lib/crt1.o: In function `_start': (.text+0x20): undefined reference to `main' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status Lot of people come here be

Re: Unilink - alternative linker for win32/64, DMD OMF extensions?

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Akakima wrote: Changing the object module format is not sufficient. The symbolic debug info would have to be changed (and Microsoft's is undocumented) and then there's the dependency on Microsoft's C runtime library if linking with VC generated object files. I found some doc there: http://

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread gölgeliyele
Walter Bright wrote: > golgeliyele wrote: >> 1. Difficult to understand linker errors due to missing main(): >> ... > > The problem is the main() can come from a library, or some other .obj file > handed to the compiler that the compiler doesn't look inside. It's a very > flexible way to buil

Re: Stupid little iota of an idea

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 01:17 PM, foobar wrote: Lutger Blijdestijn Wrote: first rule of usability: don't listen to users http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20010805.html I fail to see how that page ( which talks about website design ) applies to what I've said. It says that you should look at what peopl

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:26:50 +0200, Walter Bright wrote: golgeliyele wrote: I don't think C++ and gcc set a good bar here. Short of writing our own linker, we're a bit stuck with what ld does. That's not true. The compiler has knowledge of what symbols will be

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
retard wrote: I wish there were more news about D. This would bring us more reddit threads and thus more bug fixes. You can write articles about D and post them to reddit. What's holding you back?

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
gölgeliyele wrote: I don't think supporting multiple compilation models is a good thing. I think it's necessary if one is to support both small and large projects, and all the different ways one could use a D compiler as a tool.

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Daniel Gibson
Am 13.02.2011 20:01, schrieb gölgeliyele: > I don't think > supporting multiple compilation models is a good thing. > I think incremental compilation is a very useful feature for large projects so it should be available. Also the possibility to link in .o files that were generated from C code w

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Lutger Blijdestijn wrote: "Why use C instead of the D programming language? Certainly, D is usable for such low level coding and, when programming at this level, there isn't a practical difference between the two. The problem is that the system to build Optlink uses some old tools that only wor

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
golgeliyele wrote: 1. Difficult to understand linker errors due to missing main(): Fixing this would be useful for newbies. If there is not already a defect on this, I suggest we file a defect and it gets fixed sometime. I am assuming that this can be caught before going to the linker. Does d

Re: alias this question

2011-02-13 Thread spir
On 02/13/2011 05:30 PM, Olli Aalto wrote: I encountered a problem with alias this, when the aliased member is private. I'm using the latest dmd2. It reports the follwing: src\main.d(14): Error: struct K.K member s is not accessible If I change the private modifier on the s member to public it wo

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread gölgeliyele
Walter Bright wrote: > golgeliyele wrote: >> I don't think C++ and gcc set a good bar here. > > Short of writing our own linker, we're a bit stuck with what ld does. > I am not necessarily questioning the use of ld (or a different linker on a different platform). What intrigues me is: Is it

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Paulo Pinto wrote: Why C and not directly D? It is really bad adversting for D to know that when its creator came around to rewrite the linker, Walter decided to use C instead of D. That's a very good question. The answer is in the technical details of transitioning optlink from an all asse

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Vladimir Panteleev
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:26:50 +0200, Walter Bright wrote: golgeliyele wrote: I don't think C++ and gcc set a good bar here. Short of writing our own linker, we're a bit stuck with what ld does. That's not true. The compiler has knowledge of what symbols will be passed to the linker, and

Re: alias this question

2011-02-13 Thread Olli Aalto
On 13.2.2011 19:40, Simen kjaeraas wrote: Olli Aalto wrote: I encountered a problem with alias this, when the aliased member is private. I'm using the latest dmd2. It reports the follwing: src\main.d(14): Error: struct K.K member s is not accessible If I change the private modifier on the s m

is there any way to get a list of classes that inherit a class?

2011-02-13 Thread hyp
Hello, I know you can easily get the base class of some class in D. However is there any way to get a list of classes that inherit a given class? I was reading around the docs, but couldn't find anything :/. But maybe someone knows how to do it?

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Could you elaborate on that? Aren't .di files supposed to be auto-generated by the compiler, and not hand-written? You can do it either way. In Phobos, you can find examples of both. In no instance are you worse off than with C++ .h/.cpp files.

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread retard
Sun, 13 Feb 2011 19:10:01 +0100, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: > On 2/13/11, Alan Smithee wrote: >> Andrej Mitrovic Wrote: >> >>> Could you elaborate on that? Aren't .di files supposed to be auto- >> generated by the compiler, and not hand-written? >> >> Yea, aren't they? How come no one uses that featu

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Walter Bright
golgeliyele wrote: I don't think C++ and gcc set a good bar here. Short of writing our own linker, we're a bit stuck with what ld does.

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 2/13/11, Alan Smithee wrote: > Andrej Mitrovic Wrote: > >> Could you elaborate on that? Aren't .di files supposed to be auto- > generated by the compiler, and not hand-written? > > Yea, aren't they? How come no one uses that feature? Perhaps it's > intrinsically broken? *hint hint* > > > This N

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Alan Smithee
Andrej Mitrovic Wrote: > Could you elaborate on that? Aren't .di files supposed to be auto- generated by the compiler, and not hand-written? Yea, aren't they? How come no one uses that feature? Perhaps it's intrinsically broken? *hint hint* This NG assumes a curious stance. Sprouting claims and

Re: d-programming-language.org

2011-02-13 Thread Gölgeliyele
Can the D logo (as in the github site: https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/1fe90c0586802aee103ff9ac0b8f3fbe?s=140&d=https://github.com%2Fimages%2Fgravatars%2Fgravatar-140.png) located on the left top area where the digital mars logo used to sit? the empty space looks a little strange. -b On 20

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread charlie
golgeliyele Wrote: > It is a mistake to consider the language without the tooling that goes along > with it. I think there is still time to recover from > this error. Large projects are often build as a series of libraries. When the > shared library problem is to be attacked, I think > the tooli

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Alan Smithee
Gary Whatmore Wrote (fixed that for you): Let's try to act reasonable here. Walter fanboyism is already getting old and sadly favored by our famous NG trolls, that is pretty much everyone here. I wouldn't be shocked to hear this Gary Whatmore will be bashing D in about 2 years' time when he realiz

Re: alias this question

2011-02-13 Thread Simen kjaeraas
Olli Aalto wrote: I encountered a problem with alias this, when the aliased member is private. I'm using the latest dmd2. It reports the follwing: src\main.d(14): Error: struct K.K member s is not accessible If I change the private modifier on the s member to public it works. Is this as inten

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Lutger Blijdestijn
Paulo Pinto wrote: > Hi, > > still you don't convice me. > > So what language features has C that are missing from D and prevent a > linker to be written in > D? > > The issue is not if I can beat Walter, the issue is that we have a > language which on its official > home page states lots of re

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 2/13/11, Alan Smithee wrote: >> You can do the same in D using .di files. > > Except no one really does that because such an approach is insanely > error prone. E.g. with classes, you need to copy entire definitions. > Change any ordering, forget a field, change a type, and you're having > unde

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Gary Whatmore
Alan Smithee Wrote: > > You can do the same in D using .di files. > > Except no one really does that because such an approach is insanely > error prone. E.g. with classes, you need to copy entire definitions. > Change any ordering, forget a field, change a type, and you're having > undefined beha

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread golgeliyele
I wonder if we can get something positive out of this discussion. I would like to enumerate a few possibilities for the several things we discussed: 1. Difficult to understand linker errors due to missing main(): Fixing this would be useful for newbies. If there is not already a defect on this

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Alan Smithee
> You can do the same in D using .di files. Except no one really does that because such an approach is insanely error prone. E.g. with classes, you need to copy entire definitions. Change any ordering, forget a field, change a type, and you're having undefined behavior. How about eating your own

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Paulo Pinto
Hi, still you don't convice me. So what language features has C that are missing from D and prevent a linker to be written in D? The issue is not if I can beat Walter, the issue is that we have a language which on its official home page states lots of reasons for using it instead of C and C++,

alias this question

2011-02-13 Thread Olli Aalto
I encountered a problem with alias this, when the aliased member is private. I'm using the latest dmd2. It reports the follwing: src\main.d(14): Error: struct K.K member s is not accessible If I change the private modifier on the s member to public it works. Is this as intended, or a bug? O.

Re: Stupid little iota of an idea

2011-02-13 Thread foobar
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote: > On 2/13/11 3:15 AM, foobar wrote: > > Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote: > > > >> On 2/11/11 7:07 AM, foobar wrote: > >>> Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote: > >>> > > I don't find the name "iota" stupid. > > Andrei > >>> > >>> Of course _you_ don't. However practic

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
On 2/13/11, Gary Whatmore wrote: > Andrej Mitrovic Wrote: > >> I guess if you're not writing new templates in your code then >> incremental compilation is possible? > > Exactly. What I did is a simple wrapper module for Phobos with > preinstantiated non-templated functions for typical use cases. F

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread golgeliyele
I don't think C++ and gcc set a good bar here.

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Gary Whatmore
Andrej Mitrovic Wrote: > I guess if you're not writing new templates in your code then > incremental compilation is possible? Exactly. What I did is a simple wrapper module for Phobos with preinstantiated non-templated functions for typical use cases. For example there are few wrappers for the

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Gary Whatmore
Paulo Pinto Wrote: > Hi, > > I am sorry, but I don't belive it. > > Many other systems programming languages that atempted to displace C and > C++, have > the toolchain built in its languages, after the compilers were bootstrapped, > as anyone > with enough compiler knowledge will surely tell

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Andrej Mitrovic
I guess if you're not writing new templates in your code then incremental compilation is possible? I did collect some information on using DMD here (it's a bit Windows-specific but my guess is it works similar on OSX): http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?D__Tutorial/CompilingLinkingD If anyone has

Re: tooling quality and some random rant

2011-02-13 Thread Gary Whatmore
Paulo Pinto Wrote: > "Nick Sabalausky" wrote in message > news:ij7v76$1q4t$1...@digitalmars.com... > > ... (cutted) ... > > > > That's not the compiler, that's the linker. I don't know what linker DMD > > uses on OSX, but on Windows it uses OPTLINK which is written in > > hand-optimized Asm so

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