Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 02:11:55 +, Jonathan Marler wrote: > This has become quite frustrating. I'm not sure how else to explain > myself so maybe I'm just being dumb. you are dumb. you can be dumb for some time, and then BANG! your proposal is silently made "right". yet you're still dumb. that

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:56:00 -0800, Walter Bright wrote: > On 1/26/2015 2:15 PM, Foo wrote: >> Because you/we are community members and therefore "second-class >> citizens". If we suggest or discuss something, it is not that >> important. But if a small reddit post is made, it matters more. > > M

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 2015-01-26 17:10, Jonathan Marler wrote: I agree with Jonathan's points, this solution doesn't seem like an improvement. If I understand the problem, we don't want to make every attribute use the '@' symbol because it looks bad and would cause a lot of code changes for sake of consistency. H

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/15 10:32 PM, Mike wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:58:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/26/15 5:32 PM, Mike wrote: The future benefits of fixing this kind of crap, are huge. IMHO this is myopic. We have much larger issues with e.g. safety, shared, and the core threading

Re: Problem with coupling shared object symbol visibility with protection

2015-01-26 Thread Benjamin Thaut via Digitalmars-d
Am 26.01.2015 um 23:24 schrieb Walter Bright: exporting a template and then having the user instantiate outside of the library doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because the instantiation won't be there in the library. The library will have to instantiate every use case. If the compiler knows th

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Mike via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:58:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/26/15 5:32 PM, Mike wrote: The future benefits of fixing this kind of crap, are huge. IMHO this is myopic. We have much larger issues with e.g. safety, shared, and the core threading library, than syntactic minutia.

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 04:10:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm ready to commit to dfix. Problem is many of the changes suggested are unlikely to mark much improvement, while miring us in the perpetual illusion of making progress. I don't think there's any illusion about D's great

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d
There was also this one from 1998 that was very small http://www.javaworld.com/article/2076641/learn-java/an-introduction-to-the-java-ring.html Java has some history running on small devices. Cheers, uri Indeed, and I remember that well. However I was less interested in embedded devices a

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d
On Tue, 2015-01-27 at 04:50 +, uri via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > Java has some history running on small devices. And, after all, Java (née Oak) was invented for programming white goods operating systems. Also set top boxes. The first tablet, Star7, appeared long before iPad. FTR JavaCard has

Re: DMD backend/el.c is missing vector declarations

2015-01-26 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
"Etienne" wrote in message news:m9lvn5$28cr$1...@digitalmars.com... The el_match function on lines 2393-2615 of backend/el.c doesn't elaborate cases for simd. I'm not going to make a pull request because I don't have time to work through the lengthy process of isolating a particular bug, so,

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread uri via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 04:10:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/26/15 7:25 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:40:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 6:15 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: What's keeping you from committing to 'dfix' as the way to solve is

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread uri via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 22:53:15 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 22:12:24 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: " If Java consumes 15% more power doing it, does it matter on a PC? Most people don't dare. Does it matter for small-scale server environments? Maybe not. Does it mat

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 7:58 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/26/15 5:32 PM, Mike wrote: The future benefits of fixing this kind of crap, are huge. IMHO this is myopic. We have much larger issues with e.g. safety, shared, and the core threading library, than syntactic minutia. All of this changing wha

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/15 7:25 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:40:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 6:15 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: What's keeping you from committing to 'dfix' as the way to solve issues like the one in this thread? Inertia of people being reluctant to u

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:54:09 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:33:15 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: This has come up before. I believe if was at DConf 2014 that Walter answered this question. If I remember, the gist was that Walter didn't like the idea that t

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/15 5:45 PM, uri wrote: I get the impression it will never be finished because too many are afraid of important breaking changes that seem necessary to get through the last 5%-10% of D2. Fiddling with "@" is not important. -- Andrei

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:41:51 UTC, weaselcat wrote: FYI, Qatari Airway's GCEO Al Baker has repeatedly publicly stated his opinion(on disliking) Boeing. Both Al Jazeera and Qatari Airway are owned by the Qatari government. Take an entire box of salt with that "documentary." I won't.

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/15 5:32 PM, Mike wrote: The future benefits of fixing this kind of crap, are huge. IMHO this is myopic. We have much larger issues with e.g. safety, shared, and the core threading library, than syntactic minutia. All of this changing what works has its value, but that pales in compari

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:33:15 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: This has come up before. I believe if was at DConf 2014 that Walter answered this question. If I remember, the gist was that Walter didn't like the idea that the compiler could rewrite a user's code, he seemed kinda "creeped" o

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread weaselcat via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:38:17 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:41:31 UTC, Joakim wrote: I was just surfing reddit and this exchange with Walter made me LOL, talking about students who learn programming for the first time in college: Walter: Why would you

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 03:25:59 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:40:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 6:15 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: What's keeping you from committing to 'dfix' as the way to solve issues like the one in this thread? Inertia of p

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:40:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 6:15 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: What's keeping you from committing to 'dfix' as the way to solve issues like the one in this thread? Inertia of people being reluctant to use it. It's still work for people to use,

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
"weaselcat" wrote in message news:ovwpcitsqbmpusckk...@forum.dlang.org... Following this timeline, we should get std.allocator sometime next year? : ) 2019

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:52:44 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 6:38 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: Unfortunately, even Boeing isn't what it used to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os One thing that one learns when working on engineering projects is journalists have z

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 5:41 PM, Joakim wrote: I've often thought that it's precisely because Walter is not a CS grad and has a real engineering background that D is so good, particularly since it means he's less likely to go chasing the CS fad of the moment. Also, I'd guess that's where his pragmatic bent

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 6:38 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: Unfortunately, even Boeing isn't what it used to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkEpstd9os One thing that one learns when working on engineering projects is journalists have zero engineering and mathematical knowledge, and what they write abo

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread bachmeier via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:41:31 UTC, Joakim wrote: I was just surfing reddit and this exchange with Walter made me LOL, talking about students who learn programming for the first time in college: Walter: Why would you say that? Very few of them actually even studied CS - they learned

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 02:30:12 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:31:07 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Yes you're right it adds more inconsistency (sorry what I said was wrong). However, no matter what solution you choose you have to choose one of two evils. E

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 6:15 PM, Zach the Mystic wrote: What's keeping you from committing to 'dfix' as the way to solve issues like the one in this thread? Inertia of people being reluctant to use it. It's still work for people to use, it's not part of their build process.

Re: LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:41:31 UTC, Joakim wrote: I was just surfing reddit and this exchange with Walter made me LOL, talking about students who learn programming for the first time in college: Walter: Why would you say that? Very few of them actually even studied CS - they learned

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread bachmeier via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:55:14 UTC, Wyatt wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:19:09 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Does Rust have the productivity of D? And it doesn't have the maturity, as I understand it. This brings up something that's been bugging me. D has a pitch for users of

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:31:07 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Yes you're right it adds more inconsistency (sorry what I said was wrong). However, no matter what solution you choose you have to choose one of two evils. Either add inconsistency or break code. There's no way around it. I

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, 26 Jan 2015 17:07:26 + Nick Treleaven via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > In fact, priore to this, @safe, > > @trusted, @system, and @property were the_only_ function > > attributes with @ on them. > > There's also @disable and more recently, @nogc. You're right. I forgot about those two. B

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread Jakob Ovrum via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 18:19:18 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:09:45AM -0800, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d wrote: ...is what took to get std.experimental.logger in Phobos. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/1500 A time to celebrate! Many th

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:49:41 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 5:45 PM, uri wrote: I get the impression it will never be finished because too many are afraid of important breaking changes that seem necessary to get through the last 5%-10% of D2. Half want breaking changes, th

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:55:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 3:07 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Walter I hate to waste your time in answering my silly questions. I know you have a much deeper knowledge and understanding of the language then I. I can see that you believe my sugg

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 3:07 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Walter I hate to waste your time in answering my silly questions. I know you have a much deeper knowledge and understanding of the language then I. I can see that you believe my suggestion would create some unnecessary complexity ("It's like using a

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 2:15 PM, Foo wrote: Because you/we are community members and therefore "second-class citizens". If we suggest or discuss something, it is not that important. But if a small reddit post is made, it matters more. Major contributors to D, like Don Clugston, advocated for it. It comes

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 2:57 PM, Mike wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 11:39:23 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: if we deprecate pure and nothrow without @, then we'll be forced to change pretty much every D program in existence. A trivial search and replace. Some might be against this change now, but

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d
On 01/26/15 23:10, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 1/26/2015 1:45 PM, Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d wrote: >>> Just 'no' on context-sensitive tokens. >> C. C++. D. Windows. Pascal. System. exit. success. failure. > > They're never keywords. Hence, some other ones also don't really n

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 5:45 PM, uri wrote: I get the impression it will never be finished because too many are afraid of important breaking changes that seem necessary to get through the last 5%-10% of D2. Half want breaking changes, the other half wants stability.

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread uri via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:32:23 UTC, Mike wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 19:51:08 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 3:39 AM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote: Personally, I'd much prefer that we not make this change. It's good to have this discussion. Previously, i

LOL, reddit comment

2015-01-26 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
I was just surfing reddit and this exchange with Walter made me LOL, talking about students who learn programming for the first time in college: Walter: Why would you say that? Very few of them actually even studied CS - they learned programming on the side. As did I, my degree is in mechanic

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 01:14:01 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:57:24 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:44:14 UTC, Zach the Mystic 3. Singularity of usage also matters. There should only be one way to mark a given attribute, eith

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Mike via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 19:51:08 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 3:39 AM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote: Personally, I'd much prefer that we not make this change. It's good to have this discussion. Previously, it's all been advocacy and "break my code" by forcing a ch

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:57:24 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:44:14 UTC, Zach the Mystic 3. Singularity of usage also matters. There should only be one way to mark a given attribute, either with or without `@`. I agree that the proposal doesn't solve the

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:44:14 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:05:17 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Haha, ok, sorry for being too abstract. I think a safe way to implement my proposal would be to do what c++ did and only allow non-keyword function attributes

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 at 00:05:17 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Haha, ok, sorry for being too abstract. I think a safe way to implement my proposal would be to do what c++ did and only allow non-keyword function attributes to omit the '@' symbol if they appear after the function signature:

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
Yup, most people like to shit on Java, but quite frankly, the ecosystem is way ahead of what exists on most platform. It is even fairly common to get a Java program up and running + tweaking of the JVM is less time and with better performance than what you would have in C++. Obviously, given

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:55:55 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:53:22 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I'm not proposing that we don't allow attributes before a function, I was mentioning an idea related to my proposal. I

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 18:25:13 UTC, Robert burner Schadek wrote: thank you @!"In order of appearance on github"() { Dicebot, JakobOvrum, monarchdodra, klamonte, grogancolin, fugalh, Geod24, andralex, braddr, AndrejMitrovic, MetaLang, p0nce, yglukhov, elendel-, sigod, sybrandy, DmitryOls

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread deadalnix via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:26:02 UTC, Dicebot wrote: It was sad that calls for more breakage were mostly ignored. But there is one thing now that is even worse - referring to #pleasebreakmycode as an excuse to introduce random changes based on random reddit comment - and completely dismis

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:53:22 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I'm not proposing that we don't allow attributes before a function, I was mentioning an idea related to my proposal. I agree with everything you said, you're just not addressing the prop

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:50:12 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: Yes it *is* another debate. Now you can't add attributes at the beginning: // no can do anymore nogc pure myUda retType funcName() { ... } // must do this instead retType funcName() nogc pure myUdal { } You're suggesting ca

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:50:12 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:32:59 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Copy/Paste: solution). By restricting the attributes to only appear after a function signature, it would also normalize the issue of consistent location of at

Re: Pandas example of groupby

2015-01-26 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:58:36 UTC, Dicebot wrote: Don't forget that there is already http://dlang.org/phobos/std_algorithm.html#.group which matches groupBy in this context (only groups consequitive elements). It would be totally awkward to have those named differently (which was why

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:32:59 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Copy/Paste: solution). By restricting the attributes to only appear after a function signature, it would also normalize the issue of consistent location of attributes, but this is another debate. The return type doesn't app

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 23:41:07 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:25:57 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: The lexer would recognize these attributes as normal ID tokens. The grammar could be amended to allow a function to be decorated with keywords and generic id tok

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread weaselcat via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:55:14 UTC, Wyatt wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:19:09 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Does Rust have the productivity of D? And it doesn't have the maturity, as I understand it. This brings up something that's been bugging me. D has a pitch for users of

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:25:57 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: The lexer would recognize these attributes as normal ID tokens. The grammar could be amended to allow a function to be decorated with keywords and generic id tokens. Then the meaning of those tokens would be handled by semanti

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 22:04:48 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:37:43 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: I think the short answer is that it's WAY too complicated for the benefit. Also, why burden the syntax highlighter, let alone the human reader, with ambiguities

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Brian Schott via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 09:29:42 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: If someone is not following the merges, well... [1] !! --- Paolo [1] http://forum.dlang.org/post/54c5f10ae5161_1b783fd49bfbf2c034...@hookshot-fe4-cp1-prd.iad.github.net.mail In case anybody was wondering, dfix has had the a

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 22:09:44 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 1:25 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: The lexer would recognize these attributes as normal ID tokens. The grammar could be amended to allow a function to be decorated with keywords and generic id tokens. Then the meaning o

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread weaselcat via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:51:03 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 19:50:39 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: If it takes just as much effort to get it into std.experimental as it would take to get into std directly, I don't see the point of the additional hassle introduced

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Mike via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 11:39:23 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: if we deprecate pure and nothrow without @, then we'll be forced to change pretty much every D program in existence. A trivial search and replace. Some might be against this change now, but 5 years from we'll profit from i

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 22:12:24 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: " If Java consumes 15% more power doing it, does it matter on a PC? Most people don't dare. Does it matter for small-scale server environments? Maybe not. Does it matter when you deploy Hadoop on a 10,000 node cluster, and the ho

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread zeljkog via Digitalmars-d
On 26.01.15 23:08, Walter Bright wrote: > > I strongly dislike context sensitive tokens, whether or not they are > done by the lexer or the parser or the semantic analysis. > > It's like using a nail for a cotter pin. I remember the first time I read about D was something like "make language e

Re: [WORK] groupBy is in! Next: aggregate

2015-01-26 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 18:31:05 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: So the key (ahem) here is to make groupBy with unary predicate different from groupBy with binary predicate. The former returns the tuple, the latter is unchanged. Makes sense? The current implementation has a certain bea

Re: Problem with coupling shared object symbol visibility with protection

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/20/2015 4:23 AM, Benjamin Thaut wrote: I'm currently working on Windows DLL support which has stronger rules than linux shared objects for which symbols actually get exported from a shared library. But as we want to replicate the same behaviour on linux using symbol visibility (e.g. gcc 4 -f

D is like native Python

2015-01-26 Thread Nick via Digitalmars-d
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2tqiaj/d_is_like_native_python/?sort=confidence

Re: defunct / stale forums on front page

2015-01-26 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:08:44 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 18:41:09 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Why not create a bugzilla section for website and forum so it is easier to report glitches and enhancement requests in a way that you will quickly see without d

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Foo via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:41:31 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:28:14 UTC, Foo wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:25:57 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:12:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:45 PM, Jonathan Marler w

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 1:45 PM, Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d wrote: C. C++. D. Windows. Pascal. System. exit. success. failure. They're never keywords.

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d
" If Java consumes 15% more power doing it, does it matter on a PC? Most people don't dare. Does it matter for small-scale server environments? Maybe not. Does it matter when you deploy Hadoop on a 10,000 node cluster, and the holistic inefficiency (multiple things running concurrently) goes t

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread Tofu Ninja via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 18:19:18 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: Certainly, this deserves celebration! But OTOH, if *this* is what it takes to contribute a new module to Phobos, then it's no wonder we have trouble finding contributors... Most would give up before they even try. I think there's an

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:55:14 UTC, Wyatt wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:19:09 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Does Rust have the productivity of D? And it doesn't have the maturity, as I understand it. This brings up something that's been bugging me. D has a pitch for users of

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 1:29 PM, Dicebot wrote: However my complaint is not about the change itself (though I personally disagree with Don reasoning in that issue, it is a delicate matter) but about the fact that it is again done as a casual PR and our breaking change culture does not seem to change : it is

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 1:25 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: The lexer would recognize these attributes as normal ID tokens. The grammar could be amended to allow a function to be decorated with keywords and generic id tokens. Then the meaning of those tokens would be handled by semantic analysis. Not going t

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread ZombineDev via Digitalmars-d
Examples: [1]: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/2024ca6d3e29362a2fc84ef51c0f73316259d645/src/core/internal/traits.d#L57 [2]: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/blob/de5d3392782c85e79e71e257b3ba607ccff852a5/std/typecons.d#L3240 On Monday, 26 January 2015

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread ZombineDev via Digitalmars-d
That's what pragma(mangle, "...")[1] is for. It is used at least a couple of times in druntime (and probably elsewhere - e.g. in library bindings). [1]: http://dlang.org/pragma.html (at the bottom of the page) On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:56:20 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Monday,

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:37:43 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: I think the short answer is that it's WAY too complicated for the benefit. Also, why burden the syntax highlighter, let alone the human reader, with ambiguities like this? I wasn't saying that we should introduce ambiguity, I w

Re: One area where D has the edge

2015-01-26 Thread Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
On Sunday, 25 January 2015 at 21:50:53 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: The author talks about C++ performance but D can match it whilst bringing scripting language style programmer productivity, and arguably higher quality code (because you can understand the code base as a coherent whole). Integra

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:28:51 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: I think the short answer is that it's WAY too complicated for the benefit. Also, why burden the syntax highlighter, let alone the human reader, with ambiguities like this? There is no ambiguity in "object.body" or even "object.

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 19:50:39 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: If it takes just as much effort to get it into std.experimental as it would take to get into std directly, I don't see the point of the additional hassle introduced by std.experimental. T I agree - be shameless with what you put

Re: Speeding up compilation by using jemalloc

2015-01-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/22/15 11:37 AM, weaselcat wrote: Might be of use to someone, but I was looking for ways to speed up dmd's albeit already fast compilation times. Just by dropping in jemalloc in place of glibc's malloc via LD_PRELOAD on my linux machine I saw a 10-15% drop in compilation times across the boa

Re: Pandas example of groupby

2015-01-26 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d
As far as I know, the current groupBy docs explain quite clearly what it does. If you find it still inadequate or unclear, please file bug against it so that we can look into improving the docs. Read the docs now - they are perfect within the context of the style of documentation (and these d

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d
On 01/26/15 20:43, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 1/26/2015 8:13 AM, Foo wrote: >> You could do the same as C++ with override and final: they are only valid >> attributes if they appear _after_ the function/method. Elsewhere they are >> still >> valid as identifiers for e.g. variables

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:28:14 UTC, Foo wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:25:57 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:12:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:45 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Just because they are function attributes does not mean they

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:28:51 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 16:10:53 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: I agree with Jonathan's points, this solution doesn't seem like an improvement. If I understand the problem, we don't want to make every attribute use the '@'

Re: 521 days, 22 hours, 7 minutes and 52 seconds...

2015-01-26 Thread weaselcat via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 18:09:46 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: ...is what took to get std.experimental.logger in Phobos. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/1500 A time to celebrate! Many thanks to Robert who carried it through a long gestation, Dicebot for managing t

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Jonathan Marler via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:12:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:45 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Just because they are function attributes does not mean they were tokenized as "keywords". The lexer has no idea what a function attribute is or that now it should be looking for att

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Foo via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:25:57 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:12:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:45 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Just because they are function attributes does not mean they were tokenized as "keywords". The lexer has no idea wh

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:17:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Donno If you are referring to this [1], but at least it's about this pull... [1] http://forum.dlang.org/thread/bug-1338...@https.issues.dlang.org%2F?page=3#post-mailman.312.1409643575.5783.digitalmars-d-bugs:40puremagic.com Yup,

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 16:10:53 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: I agree with Jonathan's points, this solution doesn't seem like an improvement. If I understand the problem, we don't want to make every attribute use the '@' symbol because it looks bad and would cause a lot of code changes f

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Walter Bright: Previously, it's all been advocacy and "break my code" Breaking the code should be justified by a worth gain. This patch is of negative value. Bye, bearophile

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 21:12:50 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:45 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Just because they are function attributes does not mean they were tokenized as "keywords". The lexer has no idea what a function attribute is or that now it should be looking for att

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 1:07 PM, Paolo Invernizzi wrote: On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:56:36 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:26 PM, Dicebot wrote: It was sad that calls for more breakage were mostly ignored. But there is one thing now that is even worse - referring to #pleasebreakmycode as an

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 1/26/2015 12:45 PM, Jonathan Marler wrote: Just because they are function attributes does not mean they were tokenized as "keywords". The lexer has no idea what a function attribute is or that now it should be looking for attributes and then it should not be.

Re: accept @pure @nothrow @return attributes

2015-01-26 Thread Paolo Invernizzi via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 26 January 2015 at 20:56:36 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 1/26/2015 12:26 PM, Dicebot wrote: It was sad that calls for more breakage were mostly ignored. But there is one thing now that is even worse - referring to #pleasebreakmycode as an excuse to introduce random changes based on r

Re: Pandas example of groupby

2015-01-26 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I meant lost in terms of extra processing time and memory consumption in order to achieve the fairly common use case of a groupby pivot table or pandas style (ie what you get if you sort the data by group and then run D groupby) If you first sort the data,

  1   2   3   >