Some integer overflow, use-after-free and out-of-bounds writes
bugs in the Abobe PDF viewer:
http://gynvael.coldwind.pl/?id=483
To find them maybe they have used the ideas shown here:
http://taviso.decsystem.org/making_software_dumber.pdf
Bye,
bearophile
Haskell folks say that their strong types help clear up a bit
the meaning of the parts of the problem (if it compiles it's
right is one of their mottos); and they also say those strong
types help avoid introducing some bugs caused by changes in the
design, because they cause type errors. They
On 8/12/2012 5:00 AM, Araq wrote:
A concrete example would really be nice here ...
Inappropriate use of Outbuffer's internal data.
And how many of those bugs would have been prevented with D's
const system?
Probably several. David Held has been reviewing the source
code, and has found interactions between subsystems of the
compiler that shouldn't be there, and would have been detected
if const was used properly.
A
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Paulo Pinto pj...@progtools.org wrote:
I have been watching the videos of this year's Assembly 2012 (
http://archive.assembly.org/**2012 http://archive.assembly.org/2012),
surprisingly the majority of the games created in the game development
competition
Le 03/08/2012 02:22, Robert a écrit :
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the client
side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders)
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 23:22:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 3:50 PM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
If you cared to follow the discussion up to the JPL documents,
you
would see that the majority of C code is actually generated
via Python.
Then I stand corrected.
I think this goes
On Saturday, 11 August 2012 at 07:44:34 UTC, ponce wrote:
Le 03/08/2012 02:22, Robert a écrit :
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the
client
side ?
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Take a look at bearophile's list of Ada features advertised as
making Ada code less buggy. Then look at, for example, dmd's
bugzilla list.
How many of those bugs would have been prevented by Ada's
features?
I'd say about 0.
Walter Bright:
As for the remaining handwritten part, it follows the JPL
strict C coding
standard, which is an extension of MISRA C, with so many
restrictions that
it kind of turns C into a Pascal like language.
I read that document, and it isn't that strict. In fact, I
thought a lot of it
On 8/11/2012 5:48 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
Here's what I perceive to be the most common causes of bugs in things I write:
It's a good list. I know that the kinds of bugs my own code has has changed over
the years, clearly due to experience. I'm just not so plagued with low level
mistakes
Walter Bright:
The problems I'm left with are:
1. incomplete understanding of the problem I'm trying to solve
2. changes in the design breaking the existing code's
assumptions
I don't really know what to do about (1). But with (2), I'm
thinking that a design that focuses better on
On Tuesday, 7 August 2012 at 18:08:25 UTC, Araq wrote:
On Tuesday, 7 August 2012 at 10:28:00 UTC, Franciszek Czekała
wrote:
I spent far to much time with Ada (I have and I have read
quite a pile of books on this language). When I tried to write
some sample programs with GNAT using advanced
The program was written with Ada and failed in a most stupid
way. Is it not a proof enough that safety cannot be sensibly
enforced by mechanical tools? And this was the main rationale
for Ada from day one. If you check for possible commercial
compilers you will see that most of them remember
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess, 0%?
It's all in C.
Take a look at bearophile's list of Ada features advertised as making Ada code
less buggy. Then look at, for example, dmd's bugzilla list.
How
On 8/10/2012 1:22 AM, meh wrote:
Another difference with JSF is we have learned well the lesson that Moore's Law
can work against you if you don't pay attention, Jeffreys continues. So we
have designed for technology refresh, so at the appropriate time we can stop
putting in the 1 GHz processor
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała
h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess,
0%?
It's all in C.
Nope, at some place of the compilation there is some intermediate
C code, yes,
... I fold. I'll wait over at my 'module paths' thread for
everyone to stop arguing about D vs language of the week.
On 08/10/2012 11:51 AM, jack wrote:
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess, 0%?
It's all in C.
Nope, at some place of the compilation
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała
h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess,
0%?
It's all in C.
Take a look at bearophile's list of Ada features advertised as
making Ada code
On 8/10/2012 2:51 AM, jack wrote:
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess, 0%?
It's all in C.
Nope, at some place of the compilation there
On 8/10/2012 11:07 AM, Araq wrote:
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess, 0%?
It's all in C.
Take a look at bearophile's list of Ada
FSF's GNAT in GCC is GPL with linking exception, like the rest
of GCC.
If you say you can't build commercial software with this,
you can't build commercial software with GCC either.
Check http://libre.adacore.com/comparisonchart/
FSF's GNAT is not Adacore's GNAT ...
On 08/10/2012 09:55 PM, Araq wrote:
FSF's GNAT in GCC is GPL with linking exception, like the rest of GCC.
If you say you can't build commercial software with this, you can't
build commercial software with GCC either.
Check http://libre.adacore.com/comparisonchart/
FSF's GNAT is not
On 08/10/2012 10:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała h...@valentimex.com wrote:
The program was written with Ada and failed in a most stupid way. Is it
not a proof enough that safety cannot be sensibly enforced by mechanical
tools?
It only shows that Ada cannot provide such safety guarantees. (Which
is
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 20:11:08 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote:
The point is that Ada didn't prevent it.
[…]
Correlation is correlation.
Following the same logic, you could argue that SafeD is useless,
because you can still write exactly the same kind of
memory-corruption bugs if you only
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 18:37:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 2:51 AM, jack wrote:
On Friday, 10 August 2012 at 08:38:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
On 8/10/2012 1:05 AM, Franciszek Czekała
h...@valentimex.com wrote:
I wonder how much Ada is in Curiosity on Mars. Let me guess,
On 8/10/2012 3:50 PM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
If you cared to follow the discussion up to the JPL documents, you
would see that the majority of C code is actually generated via Python.
Then I stand corrected.
As for the remaining handwritten part, it follows the JPL strict C coding
standard,
Jeeze, guys, OT? The OP didn't ask about ADA, or exploding
rockets. I, personally, would think that D is perfectly capable
of handling a MMORPG client, as it has proven to be very capable
of pretty much all the tasks required. Derelict is your friend
here, I'd wager, allowing you access to
On 8/4/2012 8:12 AM, bearophile wrote:
My two post didn't imply to contain significant insights, they mostly contain a
single question.
Regarding the value of those two posts, they raises some questions, like: is D
fit just for video games, or is it good to write highly reliable programs too?
I spent far to much time with Ada (I have and I have read quite a
pile of books on this language). When I tried to write some
sample programs with GNAT using advanced features of this
language I immediately hit on bugs so ridiculous that I was
thrown off the language for good. There are no
On Tuesday, 7 August 2012 at 10:28:00 UTC, Franciszek Czekała
wrote:
I spent far to much time with Ada (I have and I have read quite
a pile of books on this language). When I tried to write some
sample programs with GNAT using advanced features of this
language I immediately hit on bugs so
Paulo Pinto:
Thank you for your answer, but I think you have missed most
subtleties of my points.
I doubt Ada programmers would appreciate any other language,
given the type of high security applications Ada is used in.
I was not referring to just Ada programmers, but to programs that
Hi people,
I am a game developer (using C++ and various other languages), I stop by
sometimes to see how D and it's community evolves.
I was reading this interesting (but a bit depressing) thread and I mus just
point something for new programmers not knowing a lot about game
development:
On Sat,
On Mon, 06 Aug 2012 01:13:31 +0200, Klaim - Joël Lamotte
mjkl...@gmail.com wrote:
For example, lot of C# based games have uncontrollable hics because of
garbage collector.
From what I understand, but i'm not a specialist, it is impossible to
avoid this with a garbage collector. I suppose it
On Saturday, 4 August 2012 at 03:12:01 UTC, Kapps wrote:
On Saturday, 4 August 2012 at 02:20:45 UTC, Stefan Scholl wrote:
[...]
C# is a terrible language to make a game in.
[...]
-Does not compile to native code, so your game will have
performance issues.
Just use ngen when installing the
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 02:16:22 UTC, bearophile wrote:
Robert:
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the
client side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using
On Saturday, August 04, 2012 09:13:48 SomeDude wrote:
Well, normally, with the new STABLE branch, this is going to be a
thing of the past
LOL. No offense, but it's really not going to fix the problem. It'll mitigate
it
somewhat, but it won't fix it. Bug fixes break code all the time
Andrei Alexandrescu:
(*) Ada has many features missing in D that make its programs
significantly safer than D programs, like:
- built-in ranged integers;
- user-defined array indexes;
- clean syntax to stack-allocate matrices of runtime-defined
sizes;
- pointer kinds with different
On 8/4/12 8:25 AM, bearophile wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu:
(*) Ada has many features missing in D that make its programs
significantly safer than D programs, like:
- built-in ranged integers;
- user-defined array indexes;
- clean syntax to stack-allocate matrices of runtime-defined sizes;
-
Andrei Alexandrescu:
I wasn't referring the clarity of explanation, just that I
think this sort of righteous pontification - cheap to produce,
yet implying vast insight - doesn't add any value to the
exchange.
I agree that my answers were a little OT to the main discussion
of this thread.
On Saturday, 4 August 2012 at 15:12:54 UTC, bearophile wrote:
Andrei Alexandrescu:
I wasn't referring the clarity of explanation, just that I
think this sort of righteous pontification - cheap to produce,
yet implying vast insight - doesn't add any value to the
exchange.
I agree that my
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 03:13:06 UTC, Kapps wrote:
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 02:16:22 UTC, bearophile wrote:
I think D today is enough to create a small game like that.
But D and its standard library are in development still, so
probably you will need to fix small things every D release,
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 00:22:51 UTC, Robert wrote:
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the
client
side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl
2012/8/3 Tobias Pankrath tob...@pankrath.net:
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 00:22:51 UTC, Robert wrote:
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the client
On 2012-08-03 09:24, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
I would recommend D only for small hobby projects. Everything else is
out of scope. I'm constantly running in problems both with DMD and with
phobos, especially with it's containers and algorithms. If you need
something done, you are wrong here. At
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 09:05:11 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
On 2012-08-03 09:24, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
I would recommend D only for small hobby projects. Everything
else is
out of scope. I'm constantly running in problems both with DMD
and with
phobos, especially with it's containers and
Jacob Carlborg d...@me.com wrote:
On 2012-08-03 09:24, Tobias Pankrath wrote:
There's always the option to stay at a given release. Another option
would be to use D1 and Tango if one wants stability. Not much is
changing there.
From dlang.org:
please note: D1 will be discontinued
On 2012-08-03 13:29, Stefan Scholl wrote:
From dlang.org:
please note: D1 will be discontinued effective December 31, 2012
Right, forgot about that.
This doesn't mean that D1 will stop working. It just becomes
more stable :-}
Exactly :)
--
/Jacob Carlborg
Le 03/08/2012 02:22, Robert a écrit :
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the client
side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders)
Robert:
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the
client side ?
I have one more comment. I see D as a possible future alternative
to Ada to write some moderately
Wow! The answers here aren't very encouraging for new D users.
Stefan Scholl:
Wow! The answers here aren't very encouraging for new D users.
Or maybe some people here know that giving honest technical
answers is sometimes a good strategy. If you give false hopes you
risk creating a bad image to D.
Bye,
bearophile
On 8/3/12 4:05 PM, bearophile wrote:
Robert:
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the client side ?
I have one more comment. I see D as a possible future
On Saturday, 4 August 2012 at 02:20:45 UTC, Stefan Scholl wrote:
Wow! The answers here aren't very encouraging for new D users.
But the answers will be no better for any other language:
C++ is a terrible language to make a game in.
-Unmaintainable code
-Template bloat everywhere
-No garbage
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the client
side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders) so
its not really a problem if i lose
Robert:
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the
client side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders)
so
its not really a problem if i
On 8/3/2012 9:22 AM, Robert wrote:
Hi all,
im a c++/c# developper and i really want to try D.
I am currently developing a MMORPG, client part is in c++ and
server in c#, i want to know if D language is ok for the client
side ?
Its a simple 2d isometric game using opengl 3.X (with shaders) so
On Friday, 3 August 2012 at 02:16:22 UTC, bearophile wrote:
I think D today is enough to create a small game like that.
But D and its standard library are in development still, so
probably you will need to fix small things every D release, for
some years. Are you able and willing to do this?
59 matches
Mail list logo
